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AFABS
Aug 21, 2009, 07:47 PM
I want to get my feet wet with music recording and need some guidance. I would like to starting recording some guitar and vocals. Mainly I'd be recording electric guitar from an amp but as well acoustic guitar on occasion. My room is going to serve as the studio. Eventually I'd like to get a MIDI keyboard and would add some bass lines, keys, whatever...I've got a mac (obviously) and limited to USB equipment (no firewire). The most I want to spend is around $500. I need some help with Audio Interfaces, Mics, Cords, Setup...etc. At the very least I want to be able to record two tracks at time. My knowledge on recording is pretty limited so try not to get too technical if possible...oh and any suggestions on editing software (preferably something easy and reasonable in price) would be appreciated, I was advised to steer away from Garageband...Thanks in advance
-Alex



zimv20
Aug 21, 2009, 09:44 PM
nothing wrong with starting with garageband.

for recording two signals at once, you'll need:

1. a 2-channel usb interface
2. 2 mics
3. 2 stands
4. 2 XLR cables

you can find a suitable interface (http://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_Audio_Interfaces) for around $100. for mics, i'd suggest either a pair of AT2020's, or one AT2020 and a shure sm57. with cables and stands, that should total you out under $400.

this is enough to get you started, and then you'll find your recordings sound like poop because your room sounds like poop.

once you discover that, you'll be delighted you didn't blow your entire budget, and you can call up GIK acoustics (http://gikacoustics.com/) and grab a couple 244 bass traps to help your room sound better.

zimv20
Aug 21, 2009, 09:46 PM
oh yeah -- those AT2020 mics (just like any condenser mic) need phantom power, so make certain the interface you pick provides it in both channels.

AFABS
Aug 21, 2009, 10:28 PM
thanks for the input zim...

which of the two mics would record which (vocals or guitar)? The sm57 is mainly for instruments if I remember correctly?

brmaki
Aug 21, 2009, 11:27 PM
57's are ok for vocals as well, they can be used for almost anything and it's one piece of recording gear that you'll never outgrow.

if i were you i'd look at the studio projects b1 and a 57, i had an at2020 and it sounded very thin. if you have any room to up your budget a little, rode is running a deal right now where if you buy one of their mics in the month of august, you get a second one for $1, and the rode nt1a is a pretty respectable entry-level condenser ( it's a large diaphragm condenser). that (or another ldc) with the 57 would be a really good starting point mic-wise.

+1 with what zim said about phantom power, and that there's nothing wrong with garageband...there's especially nothing wrong with garageband considering your budget and what you need.

as far as audio interfaces, i started out with the presonus audiobox...it's been treating me really well so far, has two channels, phantom power yadda yadda.

zimv20
Aug 21, 2009, 11:52 PM
which of the two mics would record which (vocals or guitar)?
whichever sounds better on each source that day.

for acoustic and guitar, i'd first reach for two condensers. but some vox work well with the 57, and it's a standard on guitar cab.

having only two mics is a tough call, as there are advantages to having a set and advantages to having variety. your call.

The sm57 is mainly for instruments if I remember correctly?
the last song i mixed, i recorded the vocalist with a 57. came out pretty darn good, i think. if i have time, i'll upload it somewhere and post a link.

AFABS
Aug 22, 2009, 01:19 AM
not sure if i could afford the large diaphragm condensor...maybe with the 1$ mic deal I could still be in my budget...

i noticed the presonus audiobox usb comes with cubase le 4???
http://www.guitarcenter.com/PreSonus-AudioBox-USB-2X2-USB-Recording-System-243007-i1388074.gc

Fishrrman
Aug 22, 2009, 11:04 AM
RE:
"i noticed the presonus audiobox usb comes with cubase le 4???"

I believe most of the Presonus products come with Cubase LE 4 bundled in. Cubase LE is a very good application - it offers FAR more control than does GarageBand, yet is still relatively simple to learn and use (note: there _is_ a learning curve).

That said, I'd suggest that if you're looking for an audio interface that you choose firewire for your connection. It is SUPERIOR to USB insofar as latency and the number of connections are involved. It's worth spending a little more for.

I've used a Firebox for the past several years, and it's been a good, reliable unit. You can probably find them on ebay for $125 or less.

What's especially nice about the Firebox (and other firewire-based interfaces that use the Mac OS's "CORE audio" internal drivers) is that there are no "driver conflicts" with it, because there are no drivers. With CORE audio, you just plug the thing in and open the "Audio/MIDI Setup" utility to select it. In fact, with Firewire, just plug it in and it may automatically be "recognized".

The Firebox had to be one of the easiest peripherals I ever connected to my computer. Literally:
- Take out of box
- Plug in with firewire cable
- Open Audio/MIDI Setup and select
- Open GarageBand, select Firebox in prefs
- Start recording.
About ten minutes total.

(I would think that it would be nearly as easy with ANY interface running via CORE Audio)

For mics, you might also look at CAD mics. I would recommend the M-179 multi-pattern LD condensor as a very good mic for the money (about $150). Excellent for vocals and acoustic instruments.

For an "on the cheap" mic that sounds 'way better than it costs, you can't go wrong with the MCA SP-1:
http://www.pssl.com/MXL-SP1-Condenser-Studio-Microphone-With-Clip-s?AID=10404878&PID=2242988&SID=2684871
Buy one, and if you like it, buy a second and you'll be set up for stereo tracking.

For cabling, I'd suggest partsexpress or monoprice.com.

- John

AFABS
Aug 22, 2009, 11:12 AM
RE:
That said, I'd suggest that if you're looking for an audio interface that you choose firewire for your connection. It is SUPERIOR to USB insofar as latency and the number of connections are involved. It's worth spending a little more for.


Unfortunately I've got the one of the new macbook aluminum and it doesn't have a firewire connection (WTF right?)...so I'm limited to USB...thanks for the other advice on the mics and cables though

mkrishnan
Aug 22, 2009, 11:17 AM
the last song i mixed, i recorded the vocalist with a 57. came out pretty darn good, i think. if i have time, i'll upload it somewhere and post a link.

Just to echo that one can very rarely go wrong owning a 57 or 58, and they're cheap on the used market (just be careful of eBay -- there are a lot of counterfeit ones running around). A couple big hidden advantage for this kind of setup in getting one of those or another well-liked dynamic mic... (1) you can always re-sell them with minimal loss, (2) if you're using your room, you may be seriously over-estimating the amount of insulation you have from background noise. LDCs are crazy sensitive... if you're recording in your bedroom, you're going to have to do a lot of cleanup on the track you record off the LDC. A dynamic mic will be much easier to use in this respect.

I've heard good things about Presonus and also Edirol... I ended up going with the Line 6 Toneport UX2...

http://line6.com/podstudioux2/

Primarily because it adds a lot of really usable modeling capabilities beyond what GB would give you, although if you get Logic you might not need that. Also it has a really good reputation among less expensive interfaces in terms of noise levels. I'm really quite happy with it, although I use it predominantly for vocals and not for guitar (I really actually like the modeled vocals stuff -- I use a de-esser, tube pre-amp, analog compressor, and reverb setup in it for an SM58 and I'm really happy with the results). OTOH this particular one does have some limitations in terms of what it can do for multi-track simultaneous recording....

I'd also suggest seeing if you can avoid blowing $500 at once, if that's a significant investment for you, since you might find out what you want is different after you start. For instance, if you get a reasonably priced, versatile mic, and a USB interface, you can get started with just those two things, and then decide what you want to do next...

AFABS
Aug 22, 2009, 11:40 AM
thanks mkrishnan...

it looks like a LDC might be overkill for me then since I will be just recording in my room and it's pretty big so I don't want to put padding/pillows/etc all over the place...especially just starting out seems like the Shure mics will be the way to go...still having trouble figuring if the sm57 or sm58 will be better for which thing if it matter at all

another question that just came up is...will i be o.k. recording vocals just into the mic with no amplification or pa system? Just wear headphones and listen to the other tracks?

ChrisA
Aug 22, 2009, 02:40 PM
nothing wrong with starting with garageband.

for recording two signals at once, you'll need:

1. a 2-channel usb interface
2. 2 mics
3. 2 stands
4. 2 XLR cables

The above is right but I'm more conservative. Buy only one mic, cable and stand. See if you like them. If you do one more of each if not buy a different brand of each. There is an advantage to having all matching gear and an advantage to having some selection.

The sm57 and sm58 mics are very close. the 58 has a wind screen better suited to vocals the 57 is typically used for instruments.

There are many copies of these mics. Shure themselves even make some. The Shure pg57 is half the price. Some of these copies are sold are the real thing (rip-off counterfeits on eBay) Other are up front about their mic being a "clone". Some of the copies are good enough and for $40 not bad. What you don't want is to pay $100 for a copy. Many of the mics sold on eBay and Craigslist are fakes, stay with the better retailers unless the price is low enough that you don't care.

zimv20
Aug 22, 2009, 02:42 PM
i'll upload it somewhere and post a link.

rough mix is here (http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/Music/misc/Best%20of%20Jill%20Hives%20090524.mp3).

sm57 -> phoenix drs-1 pre -> 1176

zimv20
Aug 22, 2009, 02:43 PM
still having trouble figuring if the sm57 or sm58

57

brmaki
Aug 22, 2009, 04:32 PM
The 57 and 58 are exactly the same mic internally, the 58 just has a windscreen on the top. I'd get a 57 if I were you, as you can always add a windscreen or pop-filter in front of it, but if you ever feel the need to take the top off of a 58, it's not protected underneath like the top of a 57 is. Just my $.02

AFABS
Aug 22, 2009, 05:55 PM
ahhh didn't know that about the Shure's...Zim i'll give the track a listen

Fishrrman
Aug 22, 2009, 11:22 PM
RE:
"Unfortunately I've got the one of the new macbook aluminum and it doesn't have a firewire connection"

Then look into the M-Audio "Fast Track Ultra".

Google it and you'll also find a few videos (including a tutorial) on YouTube.

Given a choice of the following:
- dynamic mic
- large-diameter condenser
- small-diameter condenser
... the best choice for voice is usually the LD condenser.
... best choice for acoustic guitar is often SD condensers, but nothing wrong with the LD ones, either.

The MCA SP-1 mics I mentioned above would be a good place to start. For $100 you can get a pair of them. Set them up for stereo and track your guitar first, then your vocals.

- John

AFABS
Aug 23, 2009, 12:29 AM
rough mix is here (http://www.boxsetauthentic.com/Music/misc/Best%20of%20Jill%20Hives%20090524.mp3).

sm57 -> phoenix drs-1 pre -> 1176

wow sounds great Zim!!!

AFABS
Aug 23, 2009, 07:49 AM
This was stated by a poster in another forum as a reply to the same topic

"Note that the vast majority of AI's (FTT pro included) make provision for the direct connection of electric guitar so you can record "silently" if you want/need to.

This will not sound "the same" as a mic'ed up amp but that is often hard to do well anyway! In fact with 2 tracks there is no reason why you can't have direct in AND mic on amp at the same time, but I am complicating matters!

Dave."

Is it really going to be difficult to record of my guitar amp...would this only be "difficult" using a dynamic mic...not sure I want to be recording "silently".....

brmaki
Aug 23, 2009, 11:27 AM
You don't have to record the guitar direct, and in my opinion, recording direct normally sounds worse than micing a good sounding amp.

If you get an interface, a mic and a stand, then it's easy to record. Most interfaces should work with Garageband right away (or the software that some of them come with) and then you can just start experimenting with different places to set up the mic in relation to your combo and start recording!

You should check out this (http://www.tweakheadz.com/) site and read through 'The Guide'. They have forums on there as well with tons of knowledgeable people and many new guys (like you and I) that need some answers. This very topic has been covered in great detail both in the Guide and on the forums there. Give it a look...I think you'll find a lot of great information.

zimv20
Aug 23, 2009, 11:40 AM
Is it really going to be difficult to record of my guitar amp...would this only be "difficult" using a dynamic mic...not sure I want to be recording "silently".....

i agree with brmaki -- prefer mic'ing to going direct.

now, is it difficult? in terms of getting a decent sound, no. in terms of a lifelong pursuit of that perfect guitar sound: yes!

NoSmokingBandit
Aug 23, 2009, 12:03 PM
I do a bit of amateur recording via my Line 6 PODxt Live and i would suggest you do use Garageband instead of a more complex app like Logic. Why? No matter what the "professionals" may say, you do not need a massive collection of apps, plugins, and crazy junk. You dont want to start relying on software to get a good clean sound. Look at the Beatles. They didnt have rewire, midi, or half that stuff that even garageband has, and i doubt anyone will say their recordings are sub-par. If you can get a clean signal into your computer (no static, buzz, hiss, pops, etc) then all you need to do is start learning your instruments, mics, and speakers. Theres no need to spend thousands on just software, it will become more of a crutch than a help.

That being said, go buy yourself an sm57. You can record almost anything with it and sound great. If you plan on buying 2 mics get a 58 for vocals and 57 for instruments.

zimv20
Aug 23, 2009, 12:14 PM
Look at the Beatles. They didnt have rewire, midi, or half that stuff that even garageband has, and i doubt anyone will say their recordings are sub-par.

but they did have excellent players, mics, recording equipment, live room, eq's, compressors, and george martin. most of which GB does _not_ have.

that shouldn't read as, "therefore, use Logic," but if an available tool helps someone get the sound they want, what's the harm in using it?

besides, i bet the Beatles would have used rewire and the rest, had it been available.

brmaki
Aug 23, 2009, 01:05 PM
besides, i bet the Beatles would have used rewire and the rest, had it been available.

especially on the white album

NoSmokingBandit
Aug 23, 2009, 01:15 PM
but they did have excellent players, mics, recording equipment, live room, eq's, compressors, and george martin. most of which GB does _not_ have.

that shouldn't read as, "therefore, use Logic," but if an available tool helps someone get the sound they want, what's the harm in using it?

besides, i bet the Beatles would have used rewire and the rest, had it been available.

Thats the important stuff there. Know your room, your instrument, and your mic. Master the hardware first, then see what you need your software to do.

Even if they would have used it, its important to see that its not required, even though many "pros" will tell you it is. When someone tells me that i HAVE to have X piece of software to record or its going to sound like ***** i just ask them if all music from the 70s sounds terrible. Most professionals spend a ton of money to make themselves feel good then try to tell everyone else that its impossible to do it any other way.

zimv20
Aug 23, 2009, 02:07 PM
its important to see that its not required

gotcha. definitely not required.

sometimes i'll go back and listen to Hendrix, recorded on 4-track, just to remind myself of what's possible.

AFABS
Aug 23, 2009, 11:38 PM
appreciate all the input from everyone...i'm definitely got some direction with this and plan on making a few purchases soon to get myself rolling

AFABS
Aug 27, 2009, 07:14 PM
So I'm pretty anxious to make a purchase and this is what I'm basically set on...

Presonus Audiobox USB
Shure SM57
XLR Cable (MonsterCable)
2 Mic Stands (guitar amp and vocals)

should be more than $300...what ya think?

thegoldenmackid
Aug 27, 2009, 07:16 PM
I would get something other then Monster Cables, they don't sound any better then ones you can buy off monoprice.

mkrishnan
Aug 27, 2009, 07:52 PM
Consider getting the SM57 used via Craigslist if you can... I found some guy who was getting out of recording (this stuff comes up on C/L a lot) and I bought an SM58 with a stand, an XLR cable, and some miscellaneous adapters for $75...

As for cables and things like that, I think you can't go wrong with Sweetwater -- I wouldn't recommend Monster either, but Sweetwater has such stunning customer service that they really earn the recommendation. I recently had a guitar patch cable go bad ... since they assign you a personal sales associate regardless of how expensive the things you order are, I just replied to Michael's last order confirmation on a Sunday when I noticed the cable was broken. I had the replacement on Tuesday without even having to send the original in. Amazing. Sweetwater is only a couple of hundred miles from here, but still.

Monoprice has a great reputation -- I just don't hear about them being used by musicians as much. But I hear good things about them all the time.

NoSmokingBandit
Aug 27, 2009, 10:16 PM
I agree, dont use Monster Cables. They are high quality, but you will never hear the difference. Not even close to being worth the price. Any low-prices mic cable will work, just dont buy junk. The general rule is that if it looks like junk it probably is.

Also, if all you are ever going to record is voice and an amp you only really need one mic stand. I've recorded my guitar amp several times by looping the mic cable through the carrying handle on top and letting the mic dangle in front of the cone. You arent supposed to point the mic directly at the cone anyway, so this works fairly well. Mic stands dont cost a bunch, but if you are looking to squeeze every dollar out that you can you can get away with only one mic stand.

AFABS
Aug 27, 2009, 11:11 PM
I agree, dont use Monster Cables. They are high quality, but you will never hear the difference. Not even close to being worth the price. Any low-prices mic cable will work, just dont buy junk. The general rule is that if it looks like junk it probably is.

Also, if all you are ever going to record is voice and an amp you only really need one mic stand. I've recorded my guitar amp several times by looping the mic cable through the carrying handle on top and letting the mic dangle in front of the cone. You arent supposed to point the mic directly at the cone anyway, so this works fairly well. Mic stands dont cost a bunch, but if you are looking to squeeze every dollar out that you can you can get away with only one mic stand.

Ah i thought I'd have to point the mic towards the cone...I looked into getting a boom mic so i could do both amp and vocals...maybe i'll use your method

salientstimulus
Aug 27, 2009, 11:33 PM
IMHO, the amp simulators in Logic (and GB) are decent, and I haven't turned on my amp in months.

Anyway, I'd put a word in for a condenser mic(s). It depends what style you're trying to record. Vocals thru a shure 57 are good for a ragged, hard-rock type vocal, but if you want something cleaner with more treble, you really do want a large diaphragm condenser. For acoustic gtr, LD or SD condenser is fine (the LD will just have to be a little further back from the guitar, or else it sounds 'boomy'). You don't have to spend a ton, the MXL 990/991 package (an LD and SD) is only $80, and is decent quality for the price. But if you use condensers, you probably want a mic stand (they're very sensitive to any vibrations) and a pop screen (for vocals).

zimv20
Aug 28, 2009, 12:00 AM
Ah i thought I'd have to point the mic towards the cone...I looked into getting a boom mic so i could do both amp and vocals...maybe i'll use your method

i start off by pointing the mic at the cone, but not directly at the center. i'm skeptical of the "hanging the mic right in front method," as there's not much flexibility for placement -- i may have the mic back a foot or two. definitely can make good use of mic stand with boom for this.

AFABS
Aug 28, 2009, 12:18 AM
Salient: I kind of want to shy away from the amp simulators...I want the sound from my amp, for now at least...and I will probably look into a nice condenser mic in the future when my budget allows for it...

As for mic stands...I might just get a low profile stand to mic the amp...and a standard one for vocals...not sure if a boom stand would reach all the way down to my amp on the ground? I suppose I could just put it on a stand or something though.

salientstimulus
Aug 28, 2009, 08:15 AM
I hear you, and I have to admit I miss feedback (ah, the plight of apartment dwelling).

I have an On Stage Stands boom (that I've used for vocals and acoustic), but I just checked and it looks like it gets low enough for any amp.

NoSmokingBandit
Aug 28, 2009, 10:19 AM
As for mic stands...I might just get a low profile stand to mic the amp...and a standard one for vocals...not sure if a boom stand would reach all the way down to my amp on the ground? I suppose I could just put it on a stand or something though.

A boom stand will ream to the floor easily enough. Back when i was in school we didnt have any short stands so i used to mic my cab with two boom stands, one in font and the other about a foot behind the cab for a bit more presence. You can adjust pretty much everything on a boom stand so you dont need to worry about it reaching.

AFABS
Sep 4, 2009, 11:33 PM
can anyone give me some more usb audio interfaces that work good with their macs? i've been weary on looking into the m-audio's because of the "drive issues"? don't know if that is a valid problem with them

salientstimulus
Sep 6, 2009, 08:53 AM
can anyone give me some more usb audio interfaces that work good with their macs? i've been weary on looking into the m-audio's because of the "drive issues"? don't know if that is a valid problem with them

I have the Lexicon Onix U22, and I've been happy with that. However, the driver is not compatible with Snow Leopard (there's another thread about that). Thankfully I found the thread beforehand, but it's a pain in butt, and we're all sort of waiting to see when they come out with a new driver. The new Apogee One looks pretty sweet (they seem to have a good track record with mac drivers), if portability is important and you don't need to record more than 1 track at a time.

mkrishnan
Sep 6, 2009, 09:32 AM
What is a "drive issue?" When I googled "M-audio" "drive issue," I didn't really find much, but what I did find....

- driver issues ... there are some issues with the way Windows handles audio that people complain about, but most of it is solved by CoreAudio in OS X. You still might have to disable your wifi to get your latency acceptably low, but aside from that, it should be fine.

- sometimes people say it's a "drive issue" when your HD can't record data as fast as your audio interface can make it. I guess different audio interfaces have different buffers, but this isn't really an audio interface brand problem. You really either need to record to RAM, optimize the HD / get a faster HD / HD interface, or record less channels at once / lower quality.

Anyways, I'd reiterate my recommendation of Line 6's products... very nice. :)

AFABS
Sep 6, 2009, 08:00 PM
What is a "drive issue?" When I googled "M-audio" "drive issue," I didn't really find much, but what I did find....

- driver issues ... there are some issues with the way Windows handles audio that people complain about, but most of it is solved by CoreAudio in OS X. You still might have to disable your wifi to get your latency acceptably low, but aside from that, it should be fine.

- sometimes people say it's a "drive issue" when your HD can't record data as fast as your audio interface can make it. I guess different audio interfaces have different buffers, but this isn't really an audio interface brand problem. You really either need to record to RAM, optimize the HD / get a faster HD / HD interface, or record less channels at once / lower quality.

Anyways, I'd reiterate my recommendation of Line 6's products... very nice. :)

i've looked into the line 6 stuff...it's kinda been between that and m-audio

sorry for the confusion, i meant "driver"...but i'm seeing it's more in windows

ChrisA
Sep 6, 2009, 11:02 PM
... When someone tells me that i HAVE to have X piece of software to record or its going to sound like ***** i just ask them if all music from the 70s sounds terrible. Most professionals spend a ton of money to make themselves feel good then try to tell everyone else that its impossible to do it any other way.

I say the same about photography. People today would insist that you can't shoot sports without a camera that has both good autofocus and can shoot at least 5 frames per second. I remind them that there were good images in 70's issues of Sports Illustrated. All of those were shot with manual focus and film.

But what both of us are not saying is that the new systems have allowed more people to make images and music. Todays automation means you need less skill to get the same result. So more people can jump in and make stuff.

Yes they did great work 50 years ago using only an four track analog tape recorder but the average amateur couldn't do much at all.

TheAngusBurger
Sep 8, 2009, 01:33 AM
I've been considering the Tascam US-122L as a USB interface. Specs seem decent and the thing's cheap too. Have you considered the Audix i5 as an alternative to the SM57? Many people seem to think it sounds better.

Fishrrman
Sep 8, 2009, 09:46 AM
"can anyone give me some more usb audio interfaces that work good with their macs?"

I have not tried one myself, but I have heard decent reviews regarding the M-Audio "Fast Track Ultra" USB2 interface.

Try googling "fast track ultra". There is at least one YouTube demo of installing it on an iMac, seemed to work very well.

There really aren't many USB2 interfaces out there (there may be more in the future). USB1.1 audio interfaces seem to have problems with through-put and latency, and until recently the trend amongst manufacturers seemed to be "towards firewire".

The aluminum MacBooks pose a problem (of course) because they don't have firewire (a marketing mistake that Apple seems to have corrected quickly!).

I would STRONGLY advise AGAINST buying any USB interface that was USB1.1 (as distinguished from USB2.0).

If you really REALLY want to do audio on a Mac portable, you might bite the bullet and consider selling the MacBook and moving up to a MacBook Pro with firewire. You'll then have MANY more choices available to you.

If you're sticking with the MacBook, I'd suggest the Fast Track Ultra or perhaps one of the Edirol USB2 interfaces.

AFABS
Sep 8, 2009, 10:59 AM
it's unfortunate that the macbook aluminum doesn't have firewire...and i don't think i'm gonna upgrade, "built the bullet", to the mbp. i think usb 2.0 should be fine

right now i'm pretty set on the fast track pro or even the fasat track ultra if i feel like shelling out the extra $150 for a some more mic inputs.

NoSmokingBandit
Sep 8, 2009, 11:21 AM
I say the same about photography. People today would insist that you can't shoot sports without a camera that has both good autofocus and can shoot at least 5 frames per second. I remind them that there were good images in 70's issues of Sports Illustrated. All of those were shot with manual focus and film.

But what both of us are not saying is that the new systems have allowed more people to make images and music. Todays automation means you need less skill to get the same result. So more people can jump in and make stuff.

Yes they did great work 50 years ago using only an four track analog tape recorder but the average amateur couldn't do much at all.

Precisely. Having apps like Logic means anybody can jump right in and have smei-professional results almost right away, but that doesnt mean the same results are impossible with something simple like Garageband, it just might take a bit more time and effort. Honestly, i'd rather teach someone how to make great music using something basic so when they graduate to a better app they dont have to rely on the new features to make great sounding tracks, but instead can use it to make their already great tracks even better.
Our apps keep getting better and better but the quality of music isnt. Dont get me started on the loudness wars... ;)

The "pros" just want to justfiy emptying their wallets on an app, imo.

ChrisA
Sep 8, 2009, 12:24 PM
.. Honestly, i'd rather teach someone how to make great music using something basic so when they graduate to a better app they dont have to rely on the new features to make great sounding tracks, but instead can use it to make their already great tracks even better.

Even today many photography teachers have the beginning students use black and white film.

I used to read up on audio gear and worry about what I'd buy but then I found that every minute I spend worrying about gear means one less minute of practice. As far as overall sound is concerned practice minutes have the most payoff.

I found these mics. They are intended to be SM58 clones but they have a more directional pattern and are not quite as mechanically strong. But they are well made and more than worth the money at $25 each. They are NOT "fakes" because they are clearly labelled "ES58" and don't say "Shure" on the mic or packaging. The cable is good quality too. I took these apart and looked inside. The seller has been in bossiness here in So. Calif for decades and is reputable. If I were starting out and needed 4 to 6 mics I'd buy a set of these and then upgrade slowly as you see fit
http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=microphones&cables

If you buy a "Shure SM58" on eBay there is a very good chance you will get this mic only with different lablel applied.


We have to wory about slipping down the path taken by audiophools (or is it spelled "auidophile"?) Those guys send their time listening the stereo equipment, not music. If they do buy music the selection criteria is "what will best show off the equipment".

You know what the best complement anyone could give me? I'd by way happy if someone said "That guitar of yours sucks big time." I'd have to be a lot better before the brand of equipment mattered.

jonnymc555
Sep 17, 2009, 11:47 AM
[QUOTE=Fishrrman;8439290]"can anyone give me some more usb audio interfaces that work good with their macs?"

I was thinking of purchasing an audio interface for Logic 9, i don't know which one to go for as i have looked at several!

I was thinking of a TC electronic Konnekt8 or a Presonas Firebox. ( i am looking for 2 to 4 channels and internal cock)

Thanks

Cycom
Sep 17, 2009, 12:35 PM
[QUOTE=Fishrrman;8439290]"can anyone give me some more usb audio interfaces that work good with their macs?"

I was thinking of purchasing an audio interface for Logic 9, i don't know which one to go for as i have looked at several!

I was thinking of a TC electronic Konnekt8 or a Presonas Firebox. ( i am looking for 2 to 4 channels and internal cock)

Thanks

I have a Konnekt 8 and while the preamps and converters are better than the Presonus, TC's drivers leave A LOT to be desired.

jonnymc555
Sep 18, 2009, 11:02 AM
[QUOTE=jonnymc555;8500513]

I have a Konnekt 8 and while the preamps and converters are better than the Presonus, TC's drivers leave A LOT to be desired.

Thanks for the info! What do you mean by the drivers aren't the best? What sorta of stuff plays up? Do you have the new snow leopard, and if so is the audio interface compatible?

Thanks

Cycom
Sep 18, 2009, 05:08 PM
[QUOTE=Cycom;8500804]

Thanks for the info! What do you mean by the drivers aren't the best? What sorta of stuff plays up? Do you have the new snow leopard, and if so is the audio interface compatible?

Thanks

I had major problems under Leopard, especially when I updated to TC's "current" drivers at the time. It made me lose firewire connectivity and I wasn't able to upgrade to the latest firmware due to some glitch in the software control panel. In a word, it was a huge pain in the a$$.....and these were only some of the problems. Check out TC Electronic's forum on their homepage. There you'll see the insane amount of problems with their interfaces.

Not sure if it's compatible with SL as I haven't upgraded yet.

I'm going with an Apogee Duet for my next i/o.

jonnymc555
Sep 19, 2009, 01:59 AM
Thanks for the info! I would like an apogee BUT i do not have enough money.

Apart from the Presonas firebox, do you know any other audio interfaces around the same price which you would recommend?

Thanks