Apple Announces August 28th Availability of Snow Leopard

[Alexwithad]

$10.55 for mine, I bought my Macbook 13 inch Unibody back in June on day one of BTS promo...then about 2 weeks later exchanged it for the Macbook Pro 13 inch unibody since it came out like a week after I bought mine for cheaper. Then about a month later my hard drive died so I had them give me a whole new computer...so I only have to pay $10.55 for mine including shipping. It says ships by August 28th.

[kimosaabee]

I think It's hilarious how everyone is acting toward this OS release... i'm waiting for the post where someone starts crying cause they're so excited

[Warbrain]

I'm so excited for Snow Leopard that I've themed my entire Leopard install so that it looks exactly like Snow Leopard! ;)

Oh, you're cleaver...

Has anyone else noticed that the "smaller footprint" has changed from 6GB to 7GB (according to this http://www.apple.com/macosx/refinements/)?

Refinements and such. I think I actually gained more.

[arkmannj]

I spend every evening with my wife, so Friday will be with Snow Leopard

Fair enough,
My appologies mate, I wasn't trying to be rude to you.

We also get to spend every evening together, but weekday evenings can be hecktic sometimes we're doing chores,
she's doing homework, we're doing bills, or whatever. Friday evenings we try to reserve as a 'Date Night'
when we can afford it that might mean going to a restraunt, other times it might simply be relaxing with a small treat together watching some old M*A*S*H reruns.
ragardless of what it is, for us Friday nights are reserved, and I (We..I hope lol) quite lookforeward to that.

I happen to work right next to the main Fed-Ex station that does the sorting for all of the state, and we usually get our delivieries in the morning. (I had SL shipped to my work address)
so I'm hoping I'll be able to 'cheat' and have the install running while I'm working.
that way I get the best of both options.

All the best to ya !
~Ark

[Sweetfeld28]

Did anyone see anything about Sun's ZFS file system being included? PCMag.com (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2351920,00.asp) is claiming that it is in OS X 10.6.

PC Mag:

The upgrade will include built-in support for Microsoft Exchange servers, a 64-bit kernel and drivers, a smaller memory and disk footprint, a new lightweight version of QuickTime known as QuickTime X that supports more video formats, Grand Central multicore processor support, OpenCL, and support for Sun's ZFS open-source file system.

[gatepc]

Already preordered and can hardly wait! Open CL is genius ( wish I could use it :( ) but I can't wait until lots of programs start taking advantage of SL!

Gatepc Bows down to the apple overlords

[arkmannj]

Did anyone see anything about Sun's ZFS file system being included? PCMag.com (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2351920,00.asp) is claiming that it is in OS X 10.6.

PC Mag:

I thought they pulled ZFS from the beta's a while back. and were only supporting it in SL Server.

[zedsdead]

Is there any Apple Event or some-kind of video announcing Snow Leopard ?

It was demoed at WWDC 2009. It's still up on apples website, just do a search.

[roland.g]

I'm excited as I would be about any new release. But I also wonder if I should be hesitant in how many applications will be "broken" by 10.6? I hate to be the test rat.

[3N16MA]

Faster, slimmer, more efficient, and 7GB of HDD space back, I can't wait.

[dernhelm]

I thought they pulled ZFS from the beta's a while back. and were only supporting it in SL Server.

Good luck finding it even in SL server. There are very few references to ZFS anywhere on Apple's site any more. It apparently has fallen completely off the face of the earth.

[impierced]

They aren't "bogus" until we see the real build number now are they ?

And for all I know Apple has completed the 64-bit boot for Mac Pro's etc.

And I have been an ADC member for 10 years and I have NEVER seen a preview build become the GM.

;)

"Mac OS X, Panther Build 7B85 is a pre-release version of Mac OS X v10.3 Panther."

Available though ADC for Premier developers on Oct. 14th, 2003. Build 7B85 ended up being the GM and shipped 10 days later on Oct. 24th.

[Warbrain]

I thought they pulled ZFS from the beta's a while back. and were only supporting it in SL Server.

It's definitely not here in the build I'm using.

I'm excited as I would be about any new release. But I also wonder if I should be hesitant in how many applications will be "broken" by 10.6? I hate to be the test rat.

Not that many. I've been good so far.

[corinhorn]

I'm excited as I would be about any new release. But I also wonder if I should be hesitant in how many applications will be "broken" by 10.6? I hate to be the test rat.

http://snowleopard.wikidot.com/

[z4n3]

x

[Carlos E]

no it doesnt, you cleanly install leopard, then straight after cleanly install the update.

It helps prevent piracy.
All Apple update dics have done the same thing. As long as it sees the previous OS version installed, it will allow you to do an erase clean install.

[MacsRgr8]

Excellent.

Pre-ordered the family pack for my family of Intel-based Macs :)
Mac Pro, Mac mini Core Duo, Mac mini Core 2 Duo, MacBook Pro.

Have one license left though.... :o

I wonder if we will get these delivered on the 28th over here in Holland. Usually Apple is very good in getting these around the globe @ the correct date. :cool:

It will be a gr8 weekend!!! :apple:

[STC1709]

hey guys got a question. My gf bought eh new MBP 13in on june 11 and i bought an imac on may 29th. She qualifies for the 9.95 up to date program. Would she be able to make 2 separate orders for the 9.95 software so that I will be able to get one for the 9.95? It has to be done thru her account b/c they verify the mac when you go to order Reason why I ask this is because I read this on the qualifying page....

"Please enter the required information into the form below to qualify your system for the Up-To-Date Program. The appropriate software will then be added to your cart. You will need to enter information for each qualifying computer - the maximum number of Up-To-Date packages that can be qualified is 20"

[BeachBum78]

So, I bought a 2009 Mini in July... and applied for the UTD program once I received the machine. I've been reading the thread and have noticed different ppl have gotten different info from Apple regarding UTD... So I called Apple, the first CSR told me that the only answer she could get was that it will be September before we get the UTD's... So i went online and ordered the $29 version and attempted to cancel my UTD order... It wouldn't let me do it online, so I called Apple again to cancel it. She said she was unable to cancel it because it was being prepared for shipment, yet my order on my side displays, Not Yet Shipped, and Ships: September. As I have no need for 2 copies and can't justify the expense of both to wait n see which one arrives first, I asked her, in her experience, does her lack of being able to cancel the first mean it's being prepared and is going to ship. She responded yes and therefore I cancelled the new $29 order... It is still confusing and there seems still to be no definite as to when the UTD's will arrive, but thought I'd share it with you all...:confused:

[r.j.s]

Would she be able to make 2 separate orders for the 9.95 software so that I will be able to get one for the 9.95?

No. See:

You will need to enter information for each qualifying computer.

[Young Turk]

Pre-Ordered and Prepared for Shipment already. :)

Same here, and mine says delivered on August 28.

Young Turk

[lannister80]

Anyone want to comment on this nugget of info from the SL wikipedia page?

Build 10A432 was released to developers on August 12, 2009, and is Golden Master. As opposed to the previous three builds, this one was released as a DVD disc image rather than made available to download via Software Update for users running previous builds, and its End-User License Agreement appears to be of the final product, with no mention of being a developers' preview.

[arkmannj]

It's definitely not here in the build I'm using.


Hmmm. that's to bad. Maybe in 10.6.8 ;-)

[xStep]

They could make an app that just asks for a DL DVD, and it does all the work.

Many Macs (original MBP for instance) don't have DL DVD burning capability and most people don't have DL DVDs available at their finger tips.

[theARNSKI]

Pretty excited for this!

EDIT: Ooops. Gotta break the news.

[queshy]

Looks like I'm late to the party..just pre-ordered now. Can't wait!

[jholzner]

Pretty excited for this!

One of my coworkers has really turned into an apple fanboy, or rather, fan lady, and when I emailed her the link to Apple's announcement, she sent an email right back saying she just ordered the family pack and she included myself and another coworker!

I bugged her about paying her back, but it looks like I'm getting snow leopard for free!!

Good deal I guess but it is against the licensing agreement of the OS. You must all reside in the same household.

[Sky Blue]

Pretty excited for this!

One of my coworkers has really turned into an apple fanboy, or rather, fan lady, and when I emailed her the link to Apple's announcement, she sent an email right back saying she just ordered the family pack and she included myself and another coworker!

I bugged her about paying her back, but it looks like I'm getting snow leopard for free!!

Stealing it more like. Unless you live in the same household as your colleague, you are not able to use a Family pack license.

[lannister80]

Good deal I guess but it is against the licensing agreement of the OS. You must all reside in the same household.
Good thing people care about EULAs!

*snicker*

[myca]

It's a US product, and therefore subject to import duty and VAT. Add that onto the $29 and you'll get closer to £25.

I'm normally the first to whine about pricing in the UK, but come on it's £25, how much is windows 7 going for, between £80 and £200 for the upgrade and between £150 and £229 for the retail box AFAIK, one thing I'll say for Apple is that their hardware can be on the expensive side at times, but their software is usually at a really competitive price.

[rdav]

I am as eager as anyone to upgrade to the Snow. But I am concerned about incompatible software, drivers, release bugs etc (despite testing). Would it be safer to wait for the next release of 10.06.01 with the first fixes? And for developers such as VMware to catch up. Or is this just unjustified paranoia (which is the worst kind)? Advice appreciated.

[UserNorwich]

If you buy a mac after the 28th will snow leopard come pre installed or do you still need to buy it separately?

[madog]

I might not be looking in the right place on Apple's site, but is it possible to buy the whole system by itself? Not the upgrade disk and then not with iLife/iWork?

Reason being, I don't want to upgrade, I want a clean install of Snow Leopard in one fell swoop (like every other OS release), and I already have iLife and iWork 09 (so no reason for the Box Set). Will this be possible?

Also, for future reinstalls of my OS, I feel it absolutely unneccessary to have to install Leopard and then upgrade, and have to do that the few times a year I reinstall my OS.

I was pretty pumped to get SL, but if I won't be allowed to do that then I'll definitely be waiting.

[theARNSKI]

Thanks jholzner and Sky Blue for bringing up the EULA about that. ;)

I guess I was too excited about it to even thinking about the EULA about it.

Broke the news to her and she offered to buy me a SL since she said school is starting for me and I wont be working much to make money, but I declined.

[myca]

I am as eager as anyone to upgrade to the Snow. But I am concerned about incompatible software, drivers, release bugs etc (despite testing). Would it be safer to wait for the next release of 10.06.01 with the first fixes? And for developers such as VMware to catch up. Or is this just unjustified paranoia (which is the worst kind)? Advice appreciated.

If you use specific software that you need I'd wait a week or two to make sure it all works.

I doubt I'll be upgrading till about 10.6.2, or whenever Digidesign say Pro Tools will work, but such is life :cool:

[OllyW]

I'm normally the first to whine about pricing in the UK, but come on it's £25, how much is windows 7 going for, between £80 and £200 for the upgrade and between £150 and £229 for the retail box AFAIK, one thing I'll say for Apple is that their hardware can be on the expensive side at times, but their software is usually at a really competitive price.

The full version of 7 Home Premium is £65 (http://www.itpro.co.uk/614119/brits-to-get-windows-7-for-65?CMP=NLC-Newsletters&uid=9767fd2e48f08681086adaeec08314fe), for once it is a lot cheaper than the cost in the USA.

[dL.]

So basically single pack = family pack = no keys, so can install on infinitely many Macs?

dL

[Doju]

If I order a MacBook Pro 13" today will I get it with Snow Leopard?

[Peace]

If I order a MacBook Pro 13" today will I get it with Snow Leopard?

It might come pre-installed and it might come with a drop-in disk.

[Sky Blue]

So basically single pack = family pack = no keys, so can install on infinitely many Macs?

dL

No, $29 single = 1 license, install on 1 Mac
$49 Family pack = 5 licenses for 5 Macs in the same household.

[madog]

I am as eager as anyone to upgrade to the Snow. But I am concerned about incompatible software, drivers, release bugs etc (despite testing). Would it be safer to wait for the next release of 10.06.01 with the first fixes? And for developers such as VMware to catch up. Or is this just unjustified paranoia (which is the worst kind)? Advice appreciated.

The 64 bit kernal will only be activated by default on the Xserve computers only as they are less likely to have old/random hardware connected them (amongst other factors). All other machines will boot up to the 32 bit kernal which will (should) work fine with older 32 bit drivers/software installed on them. Mainly the Apple applications are being switched to 64 bit, which can run in 64 bit regardless of the 32 bit kernal (don't ask me why), and I've read that the apps can also be switched to 32 bit compatibility from their info screens.

[theARNSKI]

If I order a MacBook Pro 13" today will I get it with Snow Leopard?

Just like Peace said, it may or may not. But on their site, it says that if you bought your macbook after June 8th (errr something like that) you can get the upgrade for $9.95.

[myca]

The full version of 7 Home Premium is £65 (http://www.itpro.co.uk/614119/brits-to-get-windows-7-for-65?CMP=NLC-Newsletters&uid=9767fd2e48f08681086adaeec08314fe), for once it is a lot cheaper than the cost in the USA.

I'm shocked, I just pulled up an old BBC article that showed the prices I quoted, maybe they're learning from the Vista fiasco, although they should just do one flavor of OS instead of six (granted it looks like the OS includes both 32 and 64 bit versions when you buy it which is an improvement).

[dL.]

No, $29 single = 1 license, install on 1 Mac
$49 Family pack = 5 licenses for 5 Macs in the same household.

Legally, yes. But I am asking in the technical sense. There's no 5 keys, just a disc right? Just the licensing is different.

dL

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Well this is good news. I just wish Apple would update my shipping info for the up-to-date disk.

[RazHyena]

$49 for the family pack upgrade? That's awesome! :)

[Lumpydog]

I might not be looking in the right place on Apple's site, but is it possible to buy the whole system by itself? Not the upgrade disk and then not with iLife/iWork?

Reason being, I don't want to upgrade, I want a clean install of Snow Leopard in one fell swoop (like every other OS release), and I already have iLife and iWork 09 (so no reason for the Box Set). Will this be possible?

Also, for future reinstalls of my OS, I feel it absolutely unneccessary to have to install Leopard and then upgrade, and have to do that the few times a year I reinstall my OS.

I was pretty pumped to get SL, but if I won't be allowed to do that then I'll definitely be waiting.

Just buy the upgrade for $29 and use the "erase and install" option - now located in the "disk utility" - available during the install routine.

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/12/os-x-snow-leopard-installation-process-changes-described/

[hadleydb]

haha,,, I was like thats cool, then I saw you were from Utah... and realized, man... thats typical. (nothin against utah, since i'm from there) but yes... very typical

LOL it makes sense, but I'm totally spending time with Leopard. I spend time with my wife every night.

[rdav]

The 64 bit kernal will only be activated by default on the Xserve computers only as they are less likely to have old/random hardware connected them (amongst other factors). All other machines will boot up to the 32 bit kernal which will preserve and 32 bit drivers/software installed on them. Only the Apple applications are being switched to 64 bit, which can run in 64 bit regardless of the 32 bit kernal (don't ask me why), and I've read that the apps can also be switched to 32 bit compatibility from their info screens.

So non-apple applications can be 32 or 64 bit. And they can wait to upgrade with the use of GCD etc.?

[SeVeN]

How will you have to prove your using 10.5 to get it for $30. Do you have to take your leopard box into the store or something.

[Eddyisgreat]

Legally, yes. But I am asking in the technical sense. There's no 5 keys, just a disc right? Just the licensing is different.

dL

Yes, no technical limitations. I'm sure 99% of the people on these boards could easily pirate it or have multiple macs and could just by the single kit, but I know alot of people in my own circle who buy family packs and have bought every version of OS X out cuz its so cheap. Apple's already made their money off of us, but if they give it away for free MS will use that as munitions in their latest "i'm a pc" crap campaigns.

[madog]

So basically single pack = family pack = no keys, so can install on infinitely many Macs?

dL

It would be illegal to do so. They do use the "honor system" in that regard, but if people don't actually honor it to some degree it wouldn't be difficult for them to switch to an authorization key method.

[ValSalva]

I know this won't be known until the discs ship but... I'd be shocked if Apple didn't allow a clean install with upgrade media. One may want to upgrade now but what about in a year from know when you want a fresh install of SL?

Maybe it's wishful thinking but It seems very Microsoft-like to make you install Leopard just to then install SL over it. Apple trusts customers with its family pack licenses so why wouldn't it trust it's customers with the upgrade media?

[dernhelm]

Legally, yes. But I am asking in the technical sense. There's no 5 keys, just a disc right? Just the licensing is different.

dL


And your Karma hits an all time low. Don't complain to us when the Universe seeks reparations....

I know this won't be known until the discs ship but... I'd be shocked if Apple didn't allow a clean install with upgrade media. One may want to upgrade now but what about in a year from know when you want a fresh install of SL?

Maybe it's wishful thinking but It seems very Microsoft-like to make you install Leopard just to then install SL over it. Apple trusts customers with its family pack licenses so why wouldn't it trust it's customers with the upgrade media?


I hope so too. I purchased Leopard Family pack because I have a PPC machine, but I would rather have had the Snow Leopard family pack so I could reinstall from scratch on my newer machines. I wish they would have offered a Combo family pack that allowed for only 5 installs, but provided both Snow Leopard and Leopard media.

[phatspider]

Just buy the upgrade for $29 and use the "erase and install" option - now located in the "disk utility" - available during the install routine.

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/12/os-x-snow-leopard-installation-process-changes-described/

I can confirm this works for the 432 beta

However there isn't an option as such - I just used the Erase function in Disk Util - then did a clean install on to my now blank drive

Which suggests all these people without Leopard won't need to buy the Box Set - I think you only need get this if you actually want iLife and iWork

[cuestakid]

To anyone that ordered via amazon-

You will NOT receive SL on Friday. The arrival will be determined by your shipping choice. For example I chose two-day shipping so I will likely get it on Tuesday of NEXT WEEK. Apparently sometimes Amazon does same day delivery of new release products, but its only done for very special occasions

[kryptonianjorel]

I can confirm this works for the 432 beta

However there isn't an option as such - I just used the Erase function in Disk Util - then did a clean install on to my now blank drive

Which suggests all these people without Leopard won't need to buy the Box Set - I think you only need get this if you actually want iLife and iWork

Did you have leopard on the drive that you "Erased and Installed" to?

[StefSSU]

I live in Malawi, central Africa :eek:. Neither Apple.com nor Amazon.co.uk will ship Snow Leopard here (Apple doesnt ship any products to a PO address, and Amazon for some reason will not ship any software here, even though I regularly purchase books from them).
Does anyone know of any other reliable sites that I can post a pre-order whom may ship to Africa? I realise that I'm probably not gonna have it arrive on Friday, but I have been anxiously awaiting this release, and will not be in Europe for almost a year.
I suppose worst case scenario I could ship it to my aunts address in italy and have her DHL it to me, but if anyone knows of other solutions I would be grateful. Thanks

[Doju]

It might come pre-installed and it might come with a drop-in disk.So I'll either get it pre-installed on my MacBook Pro 13" if I order it today, or I'll get with a drop in disk? All in all I won't have to wait plus pay $10?

[kryptonianjorel]

And your Karma hits an all time low. Don't complain to us when the Universe seeks reparations....



Yes, because the "Universe" is full or copyright lawyers out to get you

[iStudentUK]

So basically single pack = family pack = no keys, so can install on infinitely many Macs?

dL

I'd like to know that too!

Not that I'd ever violate an EULA... someone has to stand up for these huge companies. They don't have nearly enough money yet.

[thertrain]

Did you have leopard on the drive that you "Erased and Installed" to?

I have installed the 432 build on a brand new partition that was completely wiped before installation.

[phatspider]

Did you have leopard on the drive that you "Erased and Installed" to?

Yes I did

Though this was erased independently (via disk util) then the install was commenced via the installer

[kryptonianjorel]

I live in Malawi, central Africa :eek:. Neither Apple.com nor Amazon.co.uk will ship Snow Leopard here (Apple doesnt ship any products to a PO address, and Amazon for some reason will not ship any software here, even though I regularly purchase books from them).
Does anyone know of any other reliable sites that I can post a pre-order whom may ship to Africa? I realise that I'm probably not gonna have it arrive on Friday, but I have been anxiously awaiting this release, and will not be in Europe for almost a year.
I suppose worst case scenario I could ship it to my aunts address in italy and have her DHL it to me, but if anyone knows of other solutions I would be grateful. Thanks

Did you try this: http://www.apple.com/za/

So I'll either get it pre-installed on my MacBook Pro 13" if I order it today, or I'll get with a drop in disk? All in all I won't have to wait plus pay $10?

You won't get a drop-in-disc until the 28th or after, and it won't be preinstalled for a few weeks

[VacTacks11]

My plan is to install Leopard, and then immediately throw Snow Leopard in.

Based on past experience I should be able to do a clean install of Snow Leopard, since Installer recognizes a install of Leopard on my MacBook.

That's my plan, at least. I'll be pretty bummed if I can't do that.

[Daveoc64]

I have installed the 432 build on a brand new partition that was completely wiped before installation.

It's possible that they have a different "upgrade" build that will be shipped out to customers that includes additional checking. Very unlikely, but possible.

[Warbrain]

I can confirm this works for the 432 beta

However there isn't an option as such - I just used the Erase function in Disk Util - then did a clean install on to my now blank drive

Which suggests all these people without Leopard won't need to buy the Box Set - I think you only need get this if you actually want iLife and iWork

Note necessarily. It's already done a check of your drive to see if Leopard is there.

[madog]

This is a post over at Gizmodo.com, with the pic coming from Gawker's server. Hopefully it lasts. Thanks to Leonard Nimrod for the post.


http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/4/2009/08/dacb996c0da9bf38e3f0ce48ab2e45f2/original.png

08/22/09

I’m going to break this down because this should be really simple **** yet despite this having been discussed for months now, ad nauseam, Giz can’t even get it right.

— The ONLY systems that will default to a 64-bit kernel are the Xserves.

— ALL Macs will default to the 32-bit kernel.

— Even if you have a C2D or other 64-bit CPU you may not have an option to even launch with a 64-bit kernel, regardless if you use the 6-4 keys or use Terminal to edit the boot options. (edit: you can force 64-bit booting by holding the 6 and 4 keys while starting up, and even if you don't, those machines will still be able to run 64-bit programs without trouble. You can also type. sudo -s (enter your password) then type nvram boot-args="arch=x86_64" (hit enter) in terminal and this will boot it with a 64-bit kernel. To change it back to 32bit just leave args="" blank)

Here is the list of "capable" Macs:

Note, that If your Mac has a model number newer than what is listed then you, too, will be able to boot using the 64-bit kernel.

— When you use a 64-bit kernel you then have to use 64-bit drivers.

—— This is why the Xserve, which will likely have no oddball or legacy peripherals connected to it default to the 64-bit kernel, though you can use the 32-bit kernel if there is a driver issue. ——Macs use a lot of different drivers from 3rd-parties for peripherals so it’s the user’s best interest to default to the 32-bit kernel.

— All the 64-bit drivers Apple is releasing are "universal" in that they are both 32-bti and 64-bit. Apple has been trying to get others to do the same.

— This was the expected result for the consumer HW since the initial announcement. Nothing ha changed!

— The only caveat is why don’t certain Macs have, at least, the option to load the 64-bit kernel. I have a 13" MBP with only the Nvidia 9400M and I can’t load the 64-bit kernel. Apparently it’s only for dual GPU MB/MBPs right now, despite me having a 64-bit CPU, 64-bit chipset and 64-bit EFI. (THE LACK OF THE OPTION IS THE ONLY MYSTERY!!!)

— 64-bit apps are the default and you can choose a 32-bit version of that app if you go into Get Info and check the box for 32-bit.

— 64-bit Safari 4.0.3 on Snow Leopard gets a 440ms on SunSpider, while 32-bit Safari 4.0.3 on Leopard does it in 880ms. In comparison a couple weeks ago Chromium was saying how it’s so much faster than Safari on Leoaprd with a 660ms score.

—— 64-bit kernel or apps does not automatically mean that apps will be faster, they may even be slower for certain tasks. This depends heavily on many factors that are too complex for this site and this already long post.



And thanks to loslosbaby for this:



This is all a mis-nomer... whether the kernel (a program) is running in 64-bit mode has nothing to do with your application (some other program) running in either 64 or 32 bit.

When the kernel is running, the CPU is in "supervisor mode" and the way its running has no bearing on "user mode" like when your app is running.

The key thing is...if you are not capable of running an app in 64-bit address mode (16 exabytes) then you're stuck with each program having a direct memory space of 4GB (minus some for kernel memory mapping.

That's 4GB for EACH application...at the same time.

SO...you can have 2GB in your iMac, and have one 32-bit program using 4GB, and two more using 4GB, each. The trick is that Virtual Memory will be doing a lot of swapping. Swapping because your system RAM is not enough, and because you're running 3 big, fat apps.

In real-life most apps are not using a huge number of active "pages" but apps like photoshop will, every single operation.

So, Win32 fanboys need not rejoice, this has no practical bearing on regular users or power users.

[Key point] Snow Leopard is an OS that supports 64 bit apps natively.

[kryptonianjorel]

Yes I did

Though this was erased independently (via disk util) then the install was commenced via the installer

Whose to say disk util didn't write something onto your hard drive that told the installer that it's a valid install location after the erase?

[Brien]

Does anyone know if the Apple Stores are going to have a launch event (free tshirts, etc?) as in the past?

[thertrain]

It's possible that they have a different "upgrade" build that will be shipped out to customers that includes additional checking. Very unlikely, but possible.

Unless they change the installer since the last Developer Seed was released, which is possible if one of these new "mystery" builds are in fact real. No one has yet confirmed what the actual build of the GM release is.

I will say, that I did not burn the image to a DL DVD, nor did I use DiskUtility to Restore the image to another drive. For all I know, I may have "skipped" the Leopard check.

[fredsarran]

It was demoed at WWDC 2009. It's still up on apples website, just do a search.

I know that and I seen them already. But because it is now released (well in pre-order), I though Apple would have held at least a private media event to announce it, and I cannot find anything sort of video showing it.

But thanks for you reply :)

[milo]

So just to be clear, there is NOT any definitive info about whether 10.5 needs to be installed, or if 10.6 can be installed to a blank drive, right?

Enough with the wild guesses and assumptions, people - we can all do that ourselves. And trying to pass off your guess as fact is beyond useless.

So we're going to have to wait until someone actually gets their hands on a retail disk, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[doug in albq]

I think we will see 10.6.1 within the first week.

[milo]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned...

If the retail disk really isn't a full install, but some other disk is (like the one in the box set), isn't apple just giving an incentive to pirate it anyway? Afterall, why pay cash and end up with something that's less convenient than what the pirates are getting? It's punishing paying customers.

[StefSSU]

Did you try this: http://www.apple.com/za/

Naturally after the US store my first thought was to attempt the UK and finally ZA stores, but the ZA store doesn't seem to be offering pre-orders on Snow Leopard at all!
Thanks for the reply, all the same.

[JohnDoe98]

Just a tip to all you eager Snow Leopard users. If you have an external drive plugged into a Time Capsule or an Airport Extreme Base Station that you happen to use Time Machine on (may apply to all externals plugged into those devices), don't expect Snow Leopard to be able to mount them properly. I'm running the 432 build and it often gives me trouble accessing the drive through the network, and if I try and plug the drive directly into my USB port I get an:

Alias Could Not Be Found.

error which seems to be pretty common for Snow Leopard testers and which cannot be fixed. Meaning directly plugging in the drive cannot be accessed at all and through the network it is highly unreliable. The drive reports no errors in Disk Utility and mounts perfectly fine without any bugs in 10.5.8. In other words, this build (10A432) is seriously flawed. I can only expect other glaring omissions to exist. I know some developers reported this error to Apple.

In other words, I seriously hope they are releasing a later version, perhaps 435 or 436 to the public. Otherwise as other have stated, it might be wise to wait till 10.6.x before purchasing. Imagine that, you update and your backup drive becomes highly unstable...

[macgoesBOOM]

As someone said, Apple won't be taking the time to produce and ship a machine specific Up to Date SL disc for each machine model that qualifies. Further proof can be gleaned from the following quote on the Up to Date website:

"If you purchased multiple qualifying systems on a single invoice, you can either (1) purchase a Single-User Upgrade Kit for each qualifying product, at a cost of US$9.95*; or (2) purchase fewer Single-User Upgrade Kits and request the Right to Copy for the remaining qualifying products."

[kryptonianjorel]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned...

If the retail disk really isn't a full install, but some other disk is (like the one in the box set), isn't apple just giving an incentive to pirate it anyway? Afterall, why pay cash and end up with something that's less convenient than what the pirates are getting? It's punishing paying customers.

Or pirate from the start because paying cash is less convenient than free? If you want the theoretical full copy, buy the MBS, if you want the theoretical upgrade copy, buy it. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy a version they don't want to.

[THX1139]

Pretty sure 10a432 is the final build. Some of those 10a435 images looked faked.

I can't think of ANY reason that anyone would need to know the final build number unless they are running a torrent or illegitimate copy and want to make sure they have the final version copy. :rolleyes:

I don't think there is anyway that people will know if 10a432 didn't get additional tweaks before going gold master. I'm pretty sure that Apple doesn't include the build number when they ship cause that is for beta testing. I doubt that what you find on torrents today is the exact version that Apple is shipping.

If you want to be absolutely certain, then buy directly from Apple and you'll have SL on the 28th. :D Otherwise, you'd have to wait a few days for it to show up on your favorite torrent site and go through all the hassle of re-downloading. In the meantime, you could have the legit version installed for less than $30. Seems like a no brainer to me. ;)

[JFreak]

Setting up a scheme for tax evasion purposes is a felony in most countries, and I suppose it is the same in Finland.

In Finland most doctors/lawyers/engineers/whatever-requires-at-least-masters are doing it because the government makes it possible for everyone that are willing to pay the fees for starting a company.

If you were a doctor (for example) in Finland, would you rather pay 60% salary tax plus 22% VAT, or instead run your own company and pay 29% tax for dividend and 0% tax for whatever your company needs?

But enough for this off-topic already.

[brad.c]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned...

If the retail disk really isn't a full install, but some other disk is (like the one in the box set), isn't apple just giving an incentive to pirate it anyway? Afterall, why pay cash and end up with something that's less convenient than what the pirates are getting? It's punishing paying customers.

Nobody knows whether the $29 disk will be any different than the $169 box set. Nobody. So there's no need to count the inconvenienced chickens until they hatch.

Wait a minute: I just noticed you ere saying the same thing two quotes above. Sorry for the repetition.

[Takuta-Nui]

[adds to celebration]

I don't want to bother with the huge crowd at the Apple Store, so hopefully there won't be as many eager customers at the local mymacdealer. Can't wait!!!

[THX1139]

Thanks jholzner and Sky Blue for bringing up the EULA about that. ;)

I guess I was too excited about it to even thinking about the EULA about it.

Broke the news to her and she offered to buy me a SL since she said school is starting for me and I wont be working much to make money, but I declined.

This is easy, just live at her house! ;)

[Daveoc64]

I can't think of ANY reason that anyone would need to know the final build number unless they are running a torrent or illegitimate copy and want to make sure they have the final version copy. :rolleyes:

I don't think there is anyway that people will know if 10a432 didn't get additional tweaks before going gold master. I'm pretty sure that Apple doesn't include the build number when they ship cause that is for beta testing. I doubt that what you find on torrents today is the exact version that Apple is shipping.

If you want to be absolutely certain, then buy directly from Apple and you'll have SL on the 28th. :D Otherwise, you'd have to wait a few days for it to show up on your favorite torrent site and go through all the hassle of re-downloading. In the meantime, you could have the legit version installed for less than $30. Seems like a no brainer to me. ;)

Waiting several days is a nuisance (especially given that it looks like Apple is only shipping Snow Leopard on the 28th in Europe, leaving Saturday or Monday the first day it is likely to arrive.)

[milo]

Or pirate from the start because paying cash is less convenient than free?

I'm talking about people willing to pay for it but bummed that their money buys them a potentially cumbersome install process (assuming the disk requires a 10.5 install, which nobody knows yet).

I'm pretty sure that Apple doesn't include the build number when they ship cause that is for beta testing. I doubt that what you find on torrents today is the exact version that Apple is shipping.

Apple always includes the build number - go to About This Mac and click on 10.5.8.

[kryptonianjorel]

This is easy, just live at her house! ;)

Or better yet, be a college student for whom she supports!

[CashGap]

Not that I'd ever violate an EULA... someone has to stand up for these huge companies. They don't have nearly enough money yet.

Ugh, that attitude is becoming all too prevalent even in the US I'm sorry to report. "Hey, that grocery store makes BIG money, they won't miss some grapes/a box of cereal/a shopping cart".

Pathetic but more and more common. Oh, and I know "It's not a physical theft, I'm merely going back on a contract, so the only real damage is to my honor".

Or "honour" as the case may be. :>}

[phatspider]

Just a tip to all you eager Snow Leopard users. If you have an external drive plugged into a Time Capsule or an Airport Extreme Base Station that you happen to use Time Machine on (may apply to all externals plugged into those devices), don't expect Snow Leopard to be able to mount them properly. I'm running the 432 build and it often gives me trouble accessing the drive through the network, and if I try and plug the drive directly into my USB port I get an:

Alias Could Not Be Found.

error which seems to be pretty common for Snow Leopard testers and which cannot be fixed. Meaning directly plugging in the drive cannot be accessed at all and through the network it is highly unreliable. The drive reports no errors in Disk Utility and mounts perfectly fine without any bugs in 10.5.8. In other words, this build (10A432) is seriously flawed. I can only expect other glaring omissions to exist. I know some developers reported this error to Apple.

In other words, I seriously hope they are releasing a later version, perhaps 435 or 436 to the public. Otherwise as other have stated, it might be wise to wait till 10.6.x before purchasing. Imagine that, you update and your backup drive becomes highly unstable...

Works fine for me via my Airport Extreme with USB drive

[rushmere]

Waiting several days is a nuisance (especially given that it looks like Apple is only shipping Snow Leopard on the 28th in Europe, leaving Saturday or Monday the first day it is likely to arrive.

Monday is a public holiday, so it might not even arrive until Tuesday, and Amazon.co.uk say they're not shipping until September 4th.

Looks like we might just have to be patient here in the UK!

[madog]

Yay for the news but I'm still bummed on the disc/box art. I don't get why they all of sudden changed it and broke away from the "X" theme...whatever. The current art looks like a wallpaper from Windows 98.

From Gizmodo, 8-years-of-great-mac-os-x-box-design-end-in-a-stupid-clip-art-cat (http://gizmodo.com/5344205/8-years-of-great-mac-os-x-box-design-end-in-a-stupid-clip-art-cat)

[doctor-don]

to see what difficulties the early adopters report here as well as in Apple Discussions.

The problem may be that although 10.6 may be flawed, it will need to be installed first in order for 10.6.1 to be installed as an update.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

From Gizmodo, 8-years-of-great-mac-os-x-box-design-end-in-a-stupid-clip-art-cat (http://gizmodo.com/5344205/8-years-of-great-mac-os-x-box-design-end-in-a-stupid-clip-art-cat)

I think the Tiger box is the best. Leopard was just cheesy. I like the Snow Leopard box....

[JohnDoe98]

Works fine for me via my Airport Extreme with USB drive

Really? Can you confirm it works fine when directly plugged into the computer and not the airport? Odd that some people are experiencing problems and not others

[aznguyen316]

Works fine for me via my Airport Extreme with USB drive

I will be testing this when I get home. The reason being I wanted to test out 10a432 and now I'm happy with it, when SL release on friday I want to do a erase & install rather than the upgrade process I just did.

[Daveoc64]

Monday is a public holiday, so it might not even arrive until Tuesday, and Amazon.co.uk say they're not shipping until September 4th.

Looks like we might just have to be patient here in the UK!

Damn, I forgot about that.

I would have preferred to order from Amazon.co.uk (I have Amazon Prime), but the way Apple is shipping Snow Leopard to other retailers makes that too slow for me.

[seashellz]

So they are going with the Snow Leopard photo packaging. Hmmm...

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MAC_OS_X_SNGL?mco=NzgxMDc5OQ

jx

why not-I happen to think its ...REALLY cool looking-clean, simple modern
the antithesis of the quote ANTIQUATED TECHNOLOGY of WINDOWS unquote
the big black "X" thing has run its course
I would love the default screen to be that-the space picture is kind of old

[JFreak]

German law: It's fine to run a company as a hobby. If you try to get your VAT back, then the item must be only used for company use.

Yep, similar laws in Finland. But who checks if you used your company Mac for personal use? There's no law against stupid business decisions, so if your company allowed its workers to use company equipment for personal leisure (or whatever) it is perfectly okay unless the company equipment was damaged whilst doing so.

[redgaz26]

I like it too.
I love big cats:D:D

[JFreak]

Apple doesn't need to announce this. They've made it quite clear that it requires Leopard to use the $29 SL disc. That's on YOU if you want to install a new hard drive on your computer. In this situation you must buy the boxed set. If you think that's wrong then buy the $29 disc and find out yourself and then try to take back open software to Apple.

I DO have the Leopard installer. What I'm interested in is whether I am able to install SL into fresh newly formatted hard drive. Or do I really have to install Leopard first and then upgrade to SL.

[doctor-don]

This is a post over at Gizmodo.com, with the pic coming from Gawker's server. Hopefully it lasts. Thanks to Leonard Nimrod for the post.



And thanks to loslosbaby for this:

A couple of weeks ago I read in MacFixIt that Mac Pro (early 2008- MacPro3,1) having the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT card would be able to use 64 bit apps. This is different from your chart/table.

(Apologies if this doesn't reference the correct comment. It was by madog, and I believe it was page 33.)

[kitki83]

Is there some information on possible programs that may not work with SL?


thanks

rm

[Povilas]

I'm really starting to hate Apple for this "64 bit" hoax. Yes hoax.

[jaw04005]

I think the Tiger box is the best. Leopard was just cheesy. I like the Snow Leopard box....

Leave it to us Mac users to debate the box. However, there's something about the original Aqua 10.0 box that I love. It came out at the height of Apple's turnaround and experiment with colors.

Pixar actually did the fur on 10.2 box.

I like the Leopard box, not really a fan of the Snow Leopard box. They should have went back to 10.2's design with a snow fur X if they wanted to bring in elements of the actual cat.

It's interesting that all boxes except 10.2 and 10.6 incorporated a feature in their design.

10.0 - Aqua gumdrop GUI
10.3 - Brushed metal interface (Finder, etc)
10.4 - Spotlight
10.5 - Time Machine

[kryptonianjorel]

I'm really starting to hate Apple for this "64 bit" hoax. Yes hoax.

Do tell

[Kobekes]

-will this support on-the-fly switching between graphics cards on the MBPs?

Thanks!

Good Question!
Windows supports two cards isn't it?

[fredsarran]

From Gizmodo, 8-years-of-great-mac-os-x-box-design-end-in-a-stupid-clip-art-cat (http://gizmodo.com/5344205/8-years-of-great-mac-os-x-box-design-end-in-a-stupid-clip-art-cat)

Well, I pretty much like the new box art for 10.6 ! The "X" on the last boxes started to bore me. Snow Leopard is not much in features but a lot about setting new grounds for Apple Computers, and this new box art represents it well. It is finer and stronger. :)

[Povilas]

Do tell

You were saying?

[madog]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned...

If the retail disk really isn't a full install, but some other disk is (like the one in the box set), isn't apple just giving an incentive to pirate it anyway? Afterall, why pay cash and end up with something that's less convenient than what the pirates are getting? It's punishing paying customers.

I haven't seen a "normal" SL disk on Apple's site; just the upgrade/box versions. I also asked the same question earlier that may have been lost to this growing thread.

I don't ever do this for OS's, especially so for my beloved Mac, but for all of the system reinstalls I do (and suggest to others) if there isn't a convenient method to perform a clean install on the upgrade version, or if they don't release a standard full version by itself, then I most likely will be forced to obtain the Box Set version through other methods. I already purchased iLife/iWork 09 and will in no way purchase them again to obtain what should have been released in the first place.

There is still hope as I do not have all of the facts, but having to install Leopard first every time wouldn't be worth my time.

[Tallest Skil]

I'm really starting to hate Apple for this "64 bit" hoax. Yes hoax.

Not a hoax.

You were saying?

Not a hoax.

[JFreak]

Apple might have plans for ditching the "X" altogether, they have been using it 10.0 -- 10.5 extensively. That's six revisions! :o

Still, I don't believe there's going to be "Mac OS XI" (or Mac OS 11) but if they're moving away from "Max OS X" (or Mac OS 10 if you prefer), they're going to use something very different, as in System 7 --> Mac OS 8.

[kryptonianjorel]

You were saying?

Tell me about the hoax

[hadleydb]

I'm thinking I have to buy the Mac Box Set. I bought a Mac Pro off eBay and the person I bought it from just installed a fresh copy of Leopard on my machine. The person however didn't send the original restore discs. So I don't have a DVD copy of Leopard. I don't want the upgrade disk in case I want to do a clean install in the future. I would rather just get the Box Set, so I have something that will for sure install clean. :confused:

[Kat King123]

haha the normal side of me is thinking" so what its just anther piece of software". But the geek side of me is havin a freak out haha i cant wait :D just to make sure best buy will sell it right?

[Iroganai]

Just ordered. The question is, when will John Siracusa publish his extensive review of Snow Leopard on Ars Technica :confused: Could someone ask him on Twitter, because I don't have an account ...

[Povilas]

Not a hoax.



Not a hoax.

But it is. For a lot of Mac owners nothing will change. My iMac 7,1 is not supported, but is capable of running 64 kernel and I currently have 6 GB RAM (4+2). I can run 64 bit apps with Leopard. Thre is more to it. No ZFS. Where is Image Boot? Features just started to vanish and in the end Apple strikes with list of capable machines to run 64bit kernel which is shorter than short. Just my opinion.

[iStudentUK]

Ugh, that attitude is becoming all too prevalent even in the US I'm sorry to report. "Hey, that grocery store makes BIG money, they won't miss some grapes/a box of cereal/a shopping cart".

Pathetic but more and more common. Oh, and I know "It's not a physical theft, I'm merely going back on a contract, so the only real damage is to my honor".

Or "honour" as the case may be. :>}

With the 'u' thanks!

Honour is subjective, I don't feel sharing software in a household is wrong. Illegal yes, but not wrong in by opinion. I don't like downloading, but as far as I'm concerned once a disk is purchased the purchaser is free to do want they want with it in their house, provided it is not a criminal use.

It's not like stealing food without paying... it is like buying one apple and planting the seeds to grow a tree. Now, is that wrong? Does the supermarket have the right to control how you use it? I'd say no, provided you don't sell the fruit on.

[Master Chief]

Just ordered. The question is, when will John Siracusa publish his extensive review of Snow Leopard on Ars Technica :confused: Could someone ask him on Twitter, because I don't have an account ...
Jacqui Cheng said: "early next week" ;)

[milo]

Do tell

Well, the whole 64 bit hype would be way more believable if apple didn't make pretty much the same claims about 10.4 and 10.5.

[Paulg2uk]

Is anyone gonna take a chance and order online and hope they get it friday? I think I'll have take a trip to my local apple store and make sure I get it friday.

[minznerjosh]

Here's my chat with an Apple Store guy:

You are chatting with Justin R, an Apple Expert
APPL: Hi, my name is Justin R. Welcome to Apple!
ME: hi. do you know when Up-to-Date Snow Leopard pre-orders are scheduled to ship?
APPL: Yes, they will ship on Friday, if you complete the process online today.
ME: even the up-to-date pre-orders? i ordered mine on the 21st so I should be fine, right?
APPL: Correct.
APPL: Was there anything else I can assist you with today?
ME: nope. thanks.

Even the Apple Store guys aren't agreeing on what's going on!

[r.j.s]

Is anyone gonna take a chance and order online and hope they get it friday? I think I'll have take a trip to my local apple store and make sure I get it friday.

It says delivered on Aug. 28, so it will be delivered Friday. That's the way it worked for Leopard.

[Iroganai]

For a lot of Mac owners nothing will change.
Well they rewrote most of the standard GUI apps (like Finder) in 64 bit. Please forgive Apple for that. They never said clearly in their OS X page that their "64 bit" mean "64 bit kernel," right? Their "64 bit" means "64 bit userland," apparently.

Anyway it's just $30 which you might spend in one fancy dinner. As a geek I would rather spend that amount of money to an OS :D

[HamishInsanish]

Then you shouldn't have bought a Mac because Apple consistent develops for their current machines, and if it works in older machines/OSes great, if not, too bad.

The real "Apple Tax" is not the premium on hardware b/c it's really not much more expensive than a truly comparable PC. The true tax is the fact Macs are not as upgradable and require replacement sooner than comparable PCs. I find I can't keep a desktop for more than 3 years or a laptop for more than 2 because new technology advances at about that rate.

But 90% of the Mac user base is home users who typically don't care about having the latest and greatest OS. (Same for PC home users too). Those of us who are obsessed with being current, either out of hobby or true need, have to realize we chose an expensive computer system.


A little on the dark side in attitude, but I agree with you. You're right about upgradability (why the hell can't we just gut an iMac and use stock parts to refit every couple years? grr.. lol), but when you speak of "comparable" alternatives, while mac hardware breaks down, too, to be fair, you've got to include the shades of grey encompassing annual antivirus subscription renewals; which, compounded over a few years, ends up dragging up your monitary expense to the same price as your initial mac purchase. While I'm a rough gamer during my gaming 'phases', I don't need dual quad cores or 16+ gigs of RAM... (yet). My mac "just works", and so even if I didn't bother with a OS X 10.9 upgrade later on, I think Leopard/Snow Leopard would do just fine to maintain a static performance over a longer term. If my logic board goes a day after AppleCare, that's life.

[zaramu]

Is anyone gonna take a chance and order online and hope they get it friday? I think I'll have take a trip to my local apple store and make sure I get it friday.

This is not a question of "chance." Apple US's official statement is if u pre-order by midnight on Wed (PT), you WILL get it by Fri.

[GoKyu]

Just set up my preorder through my NAPP discount (any other NAPP members, make sure to go to the discounts section on the website!) and it's all set - $24 +tax :)

Can't wait for the big (Snow) cat!

[kwfl]

If I just bought a MBP 5 days ago... can I get them to upgrade me to SL for free? Or am I being punished for not waiting

Even if you have waited till Friday to buy your mac, you wouldnt get SL installed on it. It takes time for macs to ship with SL.

[r.j.s]

Even if you have waited till Friday to buy your mac, you wouldnt get SL installed on it. It takes time for macs to ship with SL.

But, on Friday, they should have the drop-in disc at the retail stores. Maybe not the resellers, but the Apple Stores should.

[Povilas]

Well they rewrote most of the standard GUI apps (like Finder) in 64 bit. Please forgive Apple for that. They never said clearly in their OS X page that their "64 bit" mean "64 bit kernel," right? Their "64 bit" means "64 bit userland," apparently.

Anyway it's just $30 which you might spend in one fancy dinner. As a geek I would rather spend that amount of money to an OS :D

I remember Forstal talking about Leopard. He said 64 bit top to bottom. Yeah, right. Nothing new. It's funny I can run true 64 bit Windows and Linux, but not OS X.

[casjohnr]

Friday after work...

Trip to Meadowhall

Apple Store for SL

then cinema for Funny People

:D

[Master Chief]

With the 'u' thanks!

Honour is subjective, I don't feel sharing software in a household is wrong. Illegal yes, but not wrong in by opinion. I don't like downloading, but as far as I'm concerned once a disk is purchased the purchaser is free to do want they want with it in their house, provided it is not a criminal use.

It's not like stealing food without paying... it is like buying one apple and planting the seeds to grow a tree. Now, is that wrong? Does the supermarket have the right to control how you use it? I'd say no, provided you don't sell the fruit on.And you study what exactly?

[r.j.s]

but as far as I'm concerned once a disk is purchased the purchaser is free to do want they want with it in their house, provided it is not a criminal use.

Here's the problem with your argument ...

You purchase the disc, but you license the software on it. You do not, under any circumstance, own the software - Apple does. You own the physical disc, and you can destroy it, scratch it, play it in a CD player, whatever you want to do - with the disc. You have a license to use the software on the disc, not ownership of it.

[Iroganai]

I remember Forstal talking about Leopard. He said 64 bit top to bottom. Yeah, right. Nothing new. It's funny I can run true 64 bit Windows and Linux, but not OS X.
You're perfectly right :) You know, they're exaggerative sales guys. Scott Forstal is one not-so-perfect imitator of Steve Jobs.

But I'm happy with the new APIs in the Snow Leopard, which make my Sunday programming as a hobby more enjoyable. The "block" feature in Obj-C will be a huge time-saver, for example.

I always hope that Apple would advertise what really changed in the core OS, but they never did. They always try to sell what can be easily (mis)understood for general users, and they always exaggerate too much to the point it does not capture the reality. Let me apologize to you on behalf of all the Apple community for the false hype :p

[bingee]

I want to upgrade from Tiger straight to Snow Leopard and don't mind paying the £80 or so that an upgrade from Tiger to Leopard would cost. But I refuse to pay the £129 upgrade pack as I have no need for any of the iWork/iLife applications. Apple's policy would seem to alienate a large number of it's loyal users.
Come on Apple there must be a third way!

[macfanboy]

im glad my mac can support the 64bit kernel

[HamishInsanish]

This is not a question of "chance." Apple US's official statement is if u pre-order by midnight on Wed (PT), you WILL get it by Fri.

Where does it say this? Could you link it here pls? Thx. Thought you were referring to this (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/08/24macosx.html) statement, but I don't think it says in there.

[kryptonianjorel]

im glad my mac can support the 64bit kernel

I'm glad my mac boots with the 32 bit kernel so that I have NO driver incompatibilities!

[Iroganai]

I want to upgrade from Tiger straight to Snow Leopard and don't mind paying the £80 or so that an upgrade from Tiger to Leopard would cost. But I refuse to pay the £129 upgrade pack as I have no need for any of the iWork/iLife applications. Apple's policy would seem to alienate a large number of it's loyal users.
Come on Apple there must be a third way!
Why don't you buy both the Leopard DVD and the Snow Leopard DVD?

[deepjaju]

I got my Macbook pro in the end of july and i qualify for the up to date program. But when i went to the UK online store nothing is being added to my cart. Does anyone have the same problem ? Called up apple they said the site will be fixed in a day or two. This is so frustrating..

[pdjudd]

Come on Apple there must be a third way!


Buy leopard now and upgrade to snow leopard. There is not other direct tiger to Snow Leopard route other than the Mac Box set.

[macfanboy]

I'm glad my mac boots with the 32 bit kernel so that I have NO driver incompatibilities!

people with 64 bit capable machines can boot 32 bit also

[gusious]

So if someone wants to buy the full version of snow leopard he can't do it if he already has leopard installed?

[zaramu]

I want to upgrade from Tiger straight to Snow Leopard and don't mind paying the £80 or so that an upgrade from Tiger to Leopard would cost. But I refuse to pay the £129 upgrade pack as I have no need for any of the iWork/iLife applications. Apple's policy would seem to alienate a large number of it's loyal users.
Come on Apple there must be a third way!

upgrade to leopard. upgrade to snow leopard. don't buy the box set if u don't want to.

[r.j.s]

So if someone wants to buy the full version of snow leopard he can't do it if he already has leopard installed?

Why not?

[kryptonianjorel]

people with 64 bit capable machines can boot 32 bit also

Right. But I'm glad I default in 32-bit mode. A 64-bit kernel isn't worth any of the troubles that I'll have because of moving from the 32-bit kernel

[zaramu]

So if someone wants to buy the full version of snow leopard he can't do it if he already has leopard installed?

you can buy any version you like. however, can u install any version you like?? that's another question entirely...

[lex750]

"Build Rumors" history repeats itstelf...

A build gets seeded that rumors say is GM. In every single case, people have brought up a newer build that is the supposed “real GM.” In every single case the originally rumored build is the GM and not the newer build.

* OS X 10.0: GM was 4K78. People swore that 4K83 would be it. Nope. In the box was 4K78.

* OS X 10.1: GM was 5G64. Then 5G68 popped up in rumors. In the box was 5G64.

* OS X 10.2: GM was 6C115. But rumors spoke of a “6C115b” (”b?” Really? Apple never used those little letters in official releases). In the box was 6C115. No “b.”

* OS X 10.3: GM was 7B85. Rumors had it that the 7Cxx branch was going to be GM. Nope. In the box was 7B85.

* OS X 10.4: GM was 8A428. Rumors said it’s really 8A432. In the box was 8A428.

* OS X 10.5: GM was 9A581. I’m not aware of a newer build that people said was the “real” GM. In the box was 9A581

* OS X 10.6: GM was 10A432. And now we have 10A435. But what’s in the box will be 10A432.

[JFreak]

Well, the whole 64 bit hype would be way more believable if apple didn't make pretty much the same claims about 10.4 and 10.5.

But it's not the same at all! In 10.4 they made it possible to access 64 bit address space. In 10.5 they made it possible to run 64 bit code. In 10.6 they made it possible to run 64 bit kernel. Step by step, bit by bit, we'll get there as soon as 3rd parties get their apps together.

[RedOne13]

I talked with an Apple Online Store rep who told me, without a doubt, that regardless of what the Status says, the Up To Date orders will arrive on August 28th. So no worries. :)

Ditto. Some guy called "Mike" said that the "Ships:" line will be updated when the order moves to "Prepared for Shipment". He also said that the MacBook Pro I ordered yesterday would ship with 10.5 and would most likely have a drop-in SL disc.

[zaramu]

I got my Macbook pro in the end of july and i qualify for the up to date program. But when i went to the UK online store nothing is being added to my cart. Does anyone have the same problem ? Called up apple they said the site will be fixed in a day or two. This is so frustrating..

but did you PUT the UTD disc in your cart? i.e did you actually order it?

[ironman159]

Finally, It's here.

Ship date: 28 August

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MAC_OS_X_SNGL?mco=NzgxMDc2NA

Uhh... no...

Deliver date: August 28

[CashGap]

And you study what exactly?

"Progressive Alternatives to Capitalism"

[bugfaceuk]

Just regarding the shipping, in the UK it says ships by the 28th, which is exactly the same situation as when Leopard came out. They'll send them in the next couple of days so as many people as possible get them on the 28th. Nothing to worry about :)

Thank you. I was waiting for someone to point this out... my Leopard order said the same thing (Ships By: <<Release Date>>), but it dropped through the letter box ON the release date. I expect the same.

[GoKyu]

I want to upgrade from Tiger straight to Snow Leopard and don't mind paying the £80 or so that an upgrade from Tiger to Leopard would cost. But I refuse to pay the £129 upgrade pack as I have no need for any of the iWork/iLife applications. Apple's policy would seem to alienate a large number of it's loyal users.
Come on Apple there must be a third way!

I'm not sure what the price difference is between the US and UK, but putting that into US dollars...A normal full copy of the OS would run $129, and I believe our box set runs $169. So for $40 more, you're getting the updated iLife ($80) *AND* iWork ($80) - well worth the price, even if you weren't gonna use those programs very much...$20 each? That's a bargain...

[Bevz]

Snow Leopard out friday.. Yipee! :) Just hope my UTD version ships before then as is still says shipping September which is a bit worrying...

Bit troubled about the "Upgrade" bit too, for all the reasons people have already stated; when i re-install my OS i really would rather just put one disc in the drive and not have to install Leopard first... Makes a bit of a mockery surely of Apple's claim that SL installs so much faster... Well it won't be that fast if you have to install Leopard first!!! :(

[zaramu]

I'm not sure what the price difference is between the US and UK, but putting that into US dollars...A normal full copy of the OS would run $129, and I believe our box set runs $169. So for $40 more, you're getting the updated iLife ($80) *AND* iWork ($80) - well worth the price, even if you weren't gonna use those programs very much...$20 each? That's a bargain...

actually $5 each. you forgot to count the $29 for SL. The $129 is only for Leopard.

[iStudentUK]

Here's the problem with your argument ...

You purchase the disc, but you license the software on it. You do not, under any circumstance, own the software - Apple does. You own the physical disc, and you can destroy it, scratch it, play it in a CD player, whatever you want to do - with the disc. You have a license to use the software on the disc, not ownership of it.

Many people feel no guilt about putting a 'single' disk on two machines. We can argue about licenses, ownership etc but at the end of the day if people feel their actions are morally sound, and know those who disagree will not punish them, then they will do it. Those who feel a license is unfair/unjustified will break it.

My food analogy was not great, I know, but I was just trying to improve another users first food analogy.

[zaramu]

Snow Leopard out friday.. Yipee! :) Just hope my UTD version ships before then as is still says shipping September which is a bit worrying...

Bit troubled about the "Upgrade" bit too, for all the reasons people have already stated; when i re-install my OS i really would rather just put one disc in the drive and not have to install Leopard first... Makes a bit of a mockery surely of Apple's claim that SL installs so much faster... Well it won't be that fast if you have to install Leopard first!!! :(

if you've ordered a UTD disc, why do you need to install Leopard first...??

[iStudentUK]

"Progressive Alternatives to Capitalism"

Chemistry. Close though! :D

[omegaphil6]

Cheetah
Puma
Jaguar
Panther
Tiger
Leopard
Snow Leopard


YAY

[GoKyu]

actually $5 each. you forgot to count the $29 for SL. The $129 is only for Leopard.

Oh no, I knew that - The OP was saying he wanted a stand alone copy, so assuming a $129 (whatever it would cost in the UK) version of Snow Leopard was available, it's only a little more to get the box set and save quite a bit of money...

[Bevz]

if you've ordered a UTD disc, why do you need to install Leopard first...??

I won't have to this (first) time round as i've already got leopard on my laptop, but if i have to format drive and re-install in the future i'll have to re-install leopard first...

Admittedly this isn't likely to happen that often but i'd still rather have a full, standalone retail copy and it would appear currently they're not selling one (?)

[zaramu]

Oh no, I knew that - The OP was saying he wanted a stand alone copy, so assuming a $129 (whatever it would cost in the UK) version of Snow Leopard was available, it's only a little more to get the box set and save quite a bit of money...

Oh, I see.

But I hope s/he understands there is no such version so s/he can either do a two-step upgrade or get the box set for $10 more.

2 quid for free :apple: software and a single OS install???

BTW - any brave Tiger soul can buy the $29 SL disc and let us know how s/he fares installing it w/o Leopard.

[MacAndy74]

I'm glad my mac boots with the 32 bit kernel so that I have NO driver incompatibilities!

So you have a mid-2009 MBP? Same as mine. :cool: so I guess mine will run 32-bit too. Cool with me, less problems.

[RevoDS]

I won't have to this (first) time round as i've already got leopard on my laptop, but if i have to format drive and re-install in the future i'll have to re-install leopard first...

Admittedly this isn't likely to happen that often but i'd still rather have a full, standalone retail copy and it would appear currently they're not selling one (?)

Of course not. If you have Snow Leopard installed, you can just clean install/format directly...you won't need Leopard for subsequent installs (that is, unless your HDD is so fecked that neither Leopard nor Snow Leopard are detected)

What the upgrade disk means is basically that when booting the install DVD, it checks for your existing OS X installation, and ends if it's 10.4 or lower. They wouldn't be stupid enough to block full installs from upgrade DVDs.

[SkyBell]

You people...

[macfanboy]

So you have a mid-2009 MBP? Same as mine. :cool: so I guess mine will run 32-bit too. Cool with me, less problems.

i have a mid2009 mbp lol. all those can run 64 bit kernels. theyre just not enabled by default

[Cybbe]

"Progressive Alternatives to Capitalism"

Strange conclusion. If you really want to take an economic approach to this, the marginal cost of producing an extra DVD for Apple is close to zero. Even better, the marginal cost of installing one DVD on an extra computer IS zero. The marginal utility of installing SL on another computer is far higher. In neoclassical economics, the perfectly competitive equilibria is when price is set so that the demand curve equals the supply curve. The demand curve equals marginal utility, while the supply curve equals marginal costs.

I'm sure you by now realize that the optimal price in the neoclassical model equals zero, ie that we see greater efficiency and achieve higher utility if iStudentUK installs his uni-license Snow Leopard on as many computers he can.

But I don't understand what that has to do with alternatives to capitalism.

[zorahk]

Here's the problem with your argument ...

You purchase the disc, but you license the software on it. You do not, under any circumstance, own the software - Apple does. You own the physical disc, and you can destroy it, scratch it, play it in a CD player, whatever you want to do - with the disc. You have a license to use the software on the disc, not ownership of it.

I hate to break your little bubble world you live in but honestly I don't think people are spending 20 more for a box that says "family pack" on it and a "license for up to 5 computers". There's no serial key. You can install the "single user" disc on infinitely many computers. EULAs have never been tested in court and it's highly likely that you will not get in any sort of trouble for installing the single user disc on multiple machines unless by trouble you mean getting chewed out by high-horse riding mac users on this site.

I will buy the single user disc and install it on whatever the hell I want, thanks.

[Bevz]

Of course not. If you have Snow Leopard installed, you can just clean install/format directly...you won't need Leopard for subsequent installs (that is, unless your HDD is so fecked that neither Leopard nor Snow Leopard are detected)

What the upgrade disk means is basically that when booting the install DVD, it checks for your existing OS X installation, and ends if it's 10.4 or lower. They wouldn't be stupid enough to block full installs from upgrade DVDs.

That sounds logical... I won't have to worry about it unless i've got a completely new hard drive... I think i can live with that ;)

[Iroganai]

but honestly I don't think people are spending 20 more for a box that says "family pack" on it and a "license for up to 5 computers".
I just ordered a family pack too, knowing full well that there's no serial key.
Does that mean I am not one of the "people" you referred to?

I don't see any difference between getting the torrent for one mac and buying a single license DVD to install it on more than one Macs.

[Master Chief]

I want to upgrade from Tiger straight to Snow Leopard and don't mind paying the £80 or so that an upgrade from Tiger to Leopard would cost. But I refuse to pay the £129 upgrade pack as I have no need for any of the iWork/iLife applications. Apple's policy would seem to alienate a large number of it's loyal users.
Come on Apple there must be a third way!
Apple is good for Tiger users – you simply ignore the fact that you skipped Leopard, including eight free updates, and thus now you must either go for the box, or first upgrade to Leopard and then to Snow Leopard – just like the rest of us here did ;)

Oh, and a real Apple loyalist would have used Leopard from day one.

[r.j.s]

Many people feel no guilt about putting a 'single' disk on two machines. We can argue about licenses, ownership etc but at the end of the day if people feel their actions are morally sound, and know those who disagree will not punish them, then they will do it. Those who feel a license is unfair/unjustified will break it.

My food analogy was not great, I know, but I was just trying to improve another users first food analogy.

Feelings of guilt or not, it is still piracy, and illegal.

I will buy the single user disc and install it on whatever the hell I want, thanks.

Admitting to your intended piracy on an IP-logged public forum isn't the smartest thing ... Why don't you just torrent it? That way, you wouldn't have to wait. :rolleyes:

[yoyomaster]

Strange conclusion. If you really want to take an economic approach to this, the marginal cost of producing an extra DVD for Apple is close to zero. Even better, the marginal cost of installing one DVD on an extra computer IS zero. The marginal utility of installing SL on another computer is far higher. In neoclassical economics, the perfectly competitive equilibria is when price is set so that the demand curve equals the supply curve. The demand curve equals marginal utility, while the supply curve equals marginal costs.

I'm sure you by now realize that the optimal price in the neoclassical model equals zero, ie that we see greater efficiency and achieve higher utility if iStudentUK installs his uni-license Snow Leopard on as many computers he can.

But I don't understand what that has to do with alternatives to capitalism.

This is by far no where near a perfectly competitive market.

[patrick808]

Here's my order:
(Personal information erased.)


* Note the shipping method was automatically changed to Priority.

-----------------


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o201/craigs808list/SnowLeopard.jpg

[Krafty]

You people...
What do you mean you people?
http://i32.ahpic.com/vjqmyr.jpg

[r.j.s]

What do you mean you people?

What do you mean 'you people'?
190060

[MrCrowbar]

So you have a mid-2009 MBP? Same as mine. :cool: so I guess mine will run 32-bit too. Cool with me, less problems.

Wasn't lots of the speed benefit due to 64 bit kernel? I don't get it, the Mid 2009 are the newest ones available... why use the 32 bit kernel on there?
And how will I choose between 32 and 64 bit?

I got a Mid-2009 13" MBP-

[milo]

But it's not the same at all! In 10.4 they made it possible to access 64 bit address space. In 10.5 they made it possible to run 64 bit code. In 10.6 they made it possible to run 64 bit kernel. Step by step, bit by bit, we'll get there as soon as 3rd parties get their apps together.

So why did they hype the address space in 10.5 and now again in 10.6?

And how many apps could use the extra ram in 10.4?

[Cybbe]

This is by far no where near a perfectly competitive market.

True, and such a thing doesn't exist. Yet such a neoclassical logic is one of the core insights that lead people to support capitalism. My point is this: that you should be free to install software on as many computers as you want is 100% compatible with the most basic tenets in economics, and by extension, capitalism.

Once you include copyrights (legal monopolies) and EULAs into the equation, you bring in politics, ideology and law. In any case, to derive the only logical conclusion that flows from economic theory is hardly a 'progressive alternative to capitalism'.

[sigmadog]

I hate to break your little bubble world you live in but honestly I don't think people are spending 20 more for a box that says "family pack" on it and a "license for up to 5 computers". There's no serial key. You can install the "single user" disc on infinitely many computers. EULAs have never been tested in court and it's highly likely that you will not get in any sort of trouble for installing the single user disc on multiple machines unless by trouble you mean getting chewed out by high-horse riding mac users on this site.

I will buy the single user disc and install it on whatever the hell I want, thanks.

I wouldn't be too happy if my creative efforts were copied and distributed without remuneration, that's why I protect my work with contracts, and that's why Apple (and most all software developers) protect their work with EULA's. The rights are the same, whether you are a multi-billion dollar corporation or just some schmoe like me.

Whether a EULA has been tested in court is irrelevant; it is the agreement that I accept, and that's all that matters to me. As an honorable capitalist, I believe I should be rewarded for my creative efforts, and I extend the same courtesy to Apple and all other software developers.

I'm looking forward to receiving my Snow Leopard Family Pack on Friday, and installing it on the three computers here at my home.

[iStudentUK]

Feelings of guilt or not, it is still piracy, and illegal.

It's against civil law yes. However, it's not against everyone's morality.

Is it piracy if you buy the first copy? Is just contract violation? (that is not me trying to be clever, I really am curious!)

[macfanboy]

Wasn't lots of the speed benefit due to 64 bit kernel? I don't get it, the Mid 2009 are the newest ones available... why use the 32 bit kernel on there?
And how will I choose between 32 and 64 bit?

I got a Mid-2009 13" MBP-

you can either hold 6 and 4 everyitme you boot or edit a boot.plist for permanent 64 bit (but you can edit it out if you want to opt out of it later)

[yz4103]

Been waiting for the release of SL for ages and was hoping it'd release before the end of Back To School!!!

Now, the question is, how long would it take Apple to pre-install SL on MBP? Would I be able to order a SL MBP before 8th September so that I can still get an almost-free ipod?

Thanks

[bozz2006]

don't do it. anything with a 32 bit driver won't work. this includes pretty much every printer in existence. the 64 bit kernel (that my poor old 2006 mac pro can't utilize) won't be at all useful for 99.9% of users for a while, until software and hardware companies re-write their drivers in 64 bit. and if you have older (3 years old) printers like me, you probably will never get 64 bit drivers for them.

[Cybbe]

That should be quick. They probably started installing SL on new computers last week. I would also assume they include a SL disk to computers they ship without SL pre-installed.

[bozz2006]

Been waiting for the release of SL for ages and was hoping it'd release before the end of Back To School!!!

Now, the question is, how long would it take Apple to pre-install SL on MBP? Would I be able to order a SL MBP before 8th September so that I can still get an almost-free ipod?

Thanks

i don't know if it will happen if you order today, but if you order on release date, apple will drop a snow leopard upgrade DVD into the box.

[r.j.s]

It's against civil law yes. However, it's not against everyone's morality.

True, morality is subjective. Are you not supposed to prosecute those that steal food to feed their starving family? Morally, it may be wrong for an outsider, but not wrong for the person doing it. No matter how you look at it morally, it is still illegal.

Is it piracy if you buy the first copy? Is just contract violation? (that is not me trying to be clever, I really am curious!)

Software piracy is the unauthorized copying or distribution of copyrighted software. This can be done by copying, downloading, sharing, selling, or installing multiple copies onto personal or work computers. What a lot of people don’t realize or don’t think about is that when you purchase software, you are actually purchasing a license to use it, not the actual software. That license is what tells you how many times you can install the software, so it’s important to read it. If you make more copies of the software than the license permits, you are pirating.

Simply put, making or downloading unauthorized copies of software is breaking the law, no matter how many copies or people are involved.

Whether you are casually making a few copies for friends, loaning disks, distributing or downloading pirated software from the Internet, or buying a single software program and then installing it on multiple computers (including personal), you are committing copyright infringement—also known as software piracy.

It doesn’t matter if you are doing it to make money or not — if you or your company is caught copying software, you may be held liable under both civil and criminal law. Civil penalties can be as high as $150,000 per software program infringed. In addition, introducing pirated software into your computing environment can open you up to the risk of damage to your network through defective software or malicious code.

http://www.bsa.org/country/Anti-Piracy/What-is-Software-Piracy.aspx

[vansouza]

I'm really starting to hate Apple for this "64 bit" hoax. Yes hoax.

I hate having to agree with you... hate it. Now I know how those prior to Intel chips feel; I hate that feeling.

[iStudentUK]

True, morality is subjective. Are you not supposed to prosecute those that steal food to feed their starving family? Morally, it may be wrong for an outsider, but not wrong for the person doing it. No matter how you look at it morally, it is still illegal.

Yes, illegal no argument there. May not be immoral for some, but your starving family example is pretty clear cut!!!

Thanks for that info, interesting!

[vansouza]

Just a tip to all you eager Snow Leopard users. If you have an external drive plugged into a Time Capsule or an Airport Extreme Base Station that you happen to use Time Machine on (may apply to all externals plugged into those devices), don't expect Snow Leopard to be able to mount them properly. I'm running the 432 build and it often gives me trouble accessing the drive through the network, and if I try and plug the drive directly into my USB port I get an:

Alias Could Not Be Found.

error which seems to be pretty common for Snow Leopard testers and which cannot be fixed. Meaning directly plugging in the drive cannot be accessed at all and through the network it is highly unreliable. The drive reports no errors in Disk Utility and mounts perfectly fine without any bugs in 10.5.8. In other words, this build (10A432) is seriously flawed. I can only expect other glaring omissions to exist. I know some developers reported this error to Apple.

In other words, I seriously hope they are releasing a later version, perhaps 435 or 436 to the public. Otherwise as other have stated, it might be wise to wait till 10.6.x before purchasing. Imagine that, you update and your backup drive becomes highly unstable...

Resetting PARM worked for me; and the drives came online, that was the first time in 4 years of being with Apple on various machines that I ever found occasion to do that reset...

[happydude]

i'm just excited for this topic to reach 1,000 posts. common fanboys and haters alike. if we can agree on anything, it is that we should hit 1,000 comments by the day's end. go team!!

almost there, we're so close . . .

[kwfl]

Been waiting for the release of SL for ages and was hoping it'd release before the end of Back To School!!!

Now, the question is, how long would it take Apple to pre-install SL on MBP? Would I be able to order a SL MBP before 8th September so that I can still get an almost-free ipod?

Thanks

why you dont buy your mac today and then send them the serial number. They will send you an SL disc for a few bucks. (i personally am willing to pay those extra few bucks to get it a week earlier and with the big student discount)

[zaramu]

I hate having to agree with you... hate it. Now I know how those prior to Intel chips feel; I hate that feeling.

If you can prove that Apple advertised something that it won't deliver, why don't you sue for false advertising?

If you don't like what Apple honestly advertised and delivered, why don't you exercise the freedom to not consume it?

**by "you" I mean anyone who thinks 64 bit in SL is a hoax.**

[RedOne13]

<sigh/> can't it just ask me for the leopard disk ?
If it checks for a previous version I hope they wrote it something like this:

1) Check for Leopard install
2) If Leopard already installed goto step 5, else goto step 3
3) Ask for Leopard Disk
4) If Leopard disk inserted goto step 5 else goto step 3
5) Begin Snow Leopard installation Process.

This is precisely what Windows does now and has done with consecutive upgrades. I'm not sure if it's patented or not (M$ would probably spend the money to do so). If not it would be really nice for Apple to include this.

[Lyra]

So..............



After the 28th of August 2009....

What's the next big thing we're waiting to get from Apple?

;)

[queshy]

My order has been prepared for shipment but it says "ships by Aug 28". I want it delivered on Aug 28 ! Otherwise what's the point in pre-ordering?

[gdhnz]

So, how many more of you "developers" are dying to know if 432 is the GM or not to make sure your torrented copy is the final one?

Some of us are just "developers" to take advantage of the 20% hardware discount in the ADC programme (which also includes 20% discount on Apple peripherals like monitors, applecare etc with the hardware purchase). When you're looking at high end Mac Pros, 20% is a significant amount of mullah even after paying for the ADC membership.

Getting access to the pre-release software is just a nice bonus.

[singhjeet29]

okay two of my friends are getting Macbook's this week! Will Mac's come preloaded with Snow Leopard by Friday?

[r.j.s]

okay two of my friends are getting Macbook's this week! Will Mac's come preloaded with Snow Leopard by Friday?

No. On Friday, they should have drop-in discs.

[singhjeet29]

No. On Friday, they should have drop-in discs.

What do you mean by Drop-in discs?

Will they still have to pay 9.95 to upgrade?

And when will macs come preloaded with SL.

[r.j.s]

What do you mean by Drop-in discs?

Will they still have to pay 9.95 to upgrade?

And when will macs come preloaded with SL.

Drop-in discs are upgrade discs that are slipped into the boxes at the retail stores. You have to do the upgrade yourself, but you don't have to pay or wait.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

What do you mean by Drop-in discs?

Will they still have to pay 9.95 to upgrade?

And when will macs come preloaded with SL.

Drop in disks are free.

[Chundles]

What do you mean by Drop-in discs?

Will they still have to pay 9.95 to upgrade?

And when will macs come preloaded with SL.

A drop-in disc is a disc they drop into the box of all sealed machines currently in stock that do not have Snow Leopard pre-installed.

No, they will not have to pay US$9.95 to upgrade come Friday, only if they bought the machine between June 8th and August 28th will they need to buy the Up To Date disc.

Macs will come pre-loaded with Snow Leopard eventually, possibly as early as Friday but most likely with each successive shipment after Friday.

[gdhnz]

don't do it. anything with a 32 bit driver won't work. this includes pretty much every printer in existence. the 64 bit kernel (that my poor old 2006 mac pro can't utilize) won't be at all useful for 99.9% of users for a while, until software and hardware companies re-write their drivers in 64 bit. and if you have older (3 years old) printers like me, you probably will never get 64 bit drivers for them.

You've got a printer that installs kernel extensions (kexts)? Ouch. My DocuPrint525A works perfectly.

Have a look at Startup Mode Selector (http://www.ahatfullofsky.comuv.com/English/Programs/SMS/SMS.html) for good explanations of the whole 32/64 bit confusion from people. They also have a little app that will check your 32/64 bit support of your machine.

[zorahk]

Admitting to your intended piracy on an IP-logged public forum isn't the smartest thing ... Why don't you just torrent it? That way, you wouldn't have to wait.


Ahahaha this is priceless. You think torrenting is better than me installing my 29 dollar disc on two computers? At least I paid for the disc.

Also, I own both of the computers. It's not piracy. And honestly, Apple is not reading this forum and is not going to come after me over saying that. Seriously this forum is the biggest concentration of EULA abiding perfect citizens I have ever seen on the net.

[Dan73]

What do you mean 'you people'?
190060

I lol'd

[CristobalHuet]

So now using a single disc on two Macs is called piracy. :rolleyes:

lol

Funny stuff.

[r.j.s]

Also, I own both of the computers. It's not piracy.

Legally, it is. Unless you can prove otherwise.

[HLdan]

Yah they should really do that. It's pretty annoying installing OS ontop of OS ontop of OS

It's also pretty annoying when you have to put in an activation code and then activate your OS copy, which is something Apple DOESN'T make you do. Sheesh no matter which way you have to install SL it's much easier and more convenient than Windows. :p

[singhjeet29]

Drop-in discs are upgrade discs that are slipped into the boxes at the retail stores. You have to do the upgrade yourself, but you don't have to pay or wait.

Alright cool thanks a lot everyone.

[StefSSU]

So wait, I have a MacBook that I purchased late 07, and got me a free Leopard Upgrade disk to go along with it. This leopard disk requires me to install Tiger first to upgrade, otherwise the disk just kicks me out of the instlaller, I imagine that these Snow Leopard $30 disk or the UTD's act very much the same. Now, assuming that I wish to do a completely clean install on my 2007 MacBook, lacking a Box Set disk of Leopard, I must reinstall tiger first, wiping the HD, which requires me to monitor the lengthy hour plus install since the original disks ship on 2 separate CD's. After which I am able to slam in the Leopard disk, and either choose to upgrade or wipe clean again, then wait another hour for the DVD to do its job, before finally being able to slide in my Snow Leopard CD, choosing to erase the disk and perform a clean install )since this was the goal), and upgrading? Even if the Snow Leopard install is twice as fast, a complete clean install will take me minimum 2.5-3 hours. If I ever have a problem (likely, seeing as this MacBook will be used primarily for fooling around in Linux and such, I have a shiny new Pro for the real work), I now have to reinstall 3 whole OS's?

[iMaggot]

I just ordered this Badboy, I just hope it's not a big FAIL lol

[r.j.s]

So wait, I have a MacBook that I purchased late 07, and got me a free Leopard Upgrade disk to go along with it. This leopard disk requires me to install Tiger first to upgrade, otherwise the disk just kicks me out of the instlaller, I imagine that these Snow Leopard $30 disk or the UTD's act very much the same. Now, assuming that I wish to do a completely clean install on my 2007 MacBook, lacking a Box Set disk of Leopard, I must reinstall tiger first, wiping the HD, which requires me to monitor the lengthy hour plus install since the original disks ship on 2 separate CD's. After which I am able to slam in the Leopard disk, and either choose to upgrade or wipe clean again, then wait another hour for the DVD to do its job, before finally being able to slide in my Snow Leopard CD, choosing to erase the disk and perform a clean install )since this was the goal), and upgrading? Even if the Snow Leopard install is twice as fast, a complete clean install will take me minimum 2.5-3 hours. If I ever have a problem (likely, seeing as this MacBook will be used primarily for fooling around in Linux and such, I have a shiny new Pro for the real work), I now have to reinstall 3 whole OS's?

Or, you could insert the SL upgrade disc and choose Erase and Install.

[Peace]

And watch out..R.J is just like Stewie!!;)

[DoFoT9]

too bad all my computers wont really benefit from this upgrade, it looks really nice!!

MBP CD x1600
iMac 2.8GHz HD 2600 Pro
iBook G4..

only the Intel machines will benefit from GCD, but not that much i guess... ahwell

[Boesky]

why are you defending Apple and piracy protection? What has apple done for you?

[zorahk]

Legally, it is. Unless you can prove otherwise.


That doesn't make me all of a sudden care.

[r.j.s]

why are you defending Apple and piracy protection? What has apple done for you?

Me?

I'm not defending Apple specifically, rather IP rights of people that create. Without turning this into PRSI, if people take what they want because they feel like it, two things can happen.

1) Draconian protection measures can be implemented. This hurts those legitimate users because the people taking the IP will find a way to do so.

2) People will stop putting so much effort into creating IP, because they feel shafted in the effort/reward department. This hurts everyone.

[lex750]

You guys should watch this movie.

"The Pirates of Silicon Valley"

He who steals from a thief, has 100 years of pardon.

[Iroganai]

why are you defending Apple and piracy protection? What has apple done for you?
Who are you talking to?

-- Never mind, r.j.s. answered already :)

[HLdan]

why are you defending Apple and piracy protection? What has apple done for you?

It's good that forum members remind other forum members that piracy is a no no and we should not condone it here when people brag about what they've downloaded, copied or used on multiple computers when it should be used on one.

[Cybbe]

2) People will stop putting so much effort into creating IP, because they feel shafted in the effort/reward department. This hurts everyone.

Harvard Business School calls *********: http://www.hbs.edu/research/pdf/09-132.pdf

As this essay has made clear, we do not yet have a full understanding of the mechanisms by which file sharing may have altered the incentives to produce entertainment. However, in the industry with the largest purported impact – music – consumer access to recordings has vastly improved since the advent of file haring. Since 2000, the number of recordings produced has more than doubled. In our view, this makes it difficult to argue that weaker copyright protection has had a negative impact on artists’ incentives to be creative.

[NT1440]

You guys should watch this movie.

"The Pirates of Silicon Valley"

He who steals from a thief, has 100 years of pardon.

Good movie, shaky documentary at best.

[HLdan]

why are you defending Apple and piracy protection? What has apple done for you?

Should've multi-quoted but oh well.

Answer to your question. Apple has provided us with an alternative computing experience when we could be stuck with crappy MS Windows and those cheapo PC's that it's installed on.

[r.j.s]

Harvard Business School calls *********: http://www.hbs.edu/research/pdf/09-132.pdf

As this essay has made clear, we do not yet have a full understanding of the mechanisms by which file sharing may have altered the incentives to produce entertainment. However, in the industry with the largest purported impact – music – consumer access to recordings has vastly improved since the advent of file haring. Since 2000, the number of recordings produced has more than doubled. In our view, this makes it difficult to argue that weaker copyright protection has had a negative impact on artists’ incentives to be creative.

There were a lot of other things that happened during that time that influenced the music industry. The paper is inconclusive.

[lex750]

It's good that forum members remind other forum members that piracy is a no no and we should not condone it here when people brag about what they've downloaded, copied or used on multiple computers when it should be used on one.

This is starting to sounding like a Christian based forum. "Do as I say not as I do". Stop placing your judgement values on what people are doing. No one is telling you to pirate software. Why are YOU telling others what to do? Live and let live, and keep your morals to yourself.

[StefSSU]

Or, you could insert the SL upgrade disc and choose Erase and Install.

But the installer would just quit when it notices that I'm not running Leopard right? ATM my MacBook is indeed running leopard, but my point is that when I mess up the computer (which will happen eventually, it always does) previously I've already had a long clean reinstall process involving 3 disks and 2 OS's, not counting any downloadable updates afterwards, to go through. Now with SL, I must add on another disk and OS to this already convoluted process? This would involve watching 3 Welcome videos, going through the New Account and Migration utilities 3 times, and hours of my time all just to get a clean reinstall?? I've had to go through a complete reinstall with Leopard on this machine alone a good half dozen times in the last 2 years, when 10.9 comes out does this mean that I will have to deal with 6 OS system installs to get a clean reinstall to the latest software? You cant tell me that makes sense.

[Maxime]

Ordered mine from Apple Canadian Store.

Unlike most people here it says ships by August 28th and not delivered by August 28th. :(

[LurkingIowan]

I have a question about Safari in Snow Leopard. Will it be 50% faster (as Apple claims) for everyone or just the brand new machines that are shipping now? For example, I have an early 2008 macbook, will I see a tangible increase in speed?

[HLdan]

This is starting to sounding like a Christian based forum. "Do as I say not as I do". Stop placing your judgement values on what people are doing. No one is telling you to pirate software. Why are YOU telling others what to do? Live and let live, and keep your morals to yourself.

How old are some of you on here?? I mean seriously? Typical that you would just attack me. I answered someone's question and you attack me. Grow up.

[Droid13]

But the installer would just quit when it notices that I'm not running Leopard right? ATM my MacBook is indeed running leopard, but my point is that when I mess up the computer (which will happen eventually, it always does) previously I've already had a long clean reinstall process involving 3 disks and 2 OS's, not counting any downloadable updates afterwards, to go through. Now with SL, I must add on another disk and OS to this already convoluted process? This would involve watching 3 Welcome videos, going through the New Account and Migration utilities 3 times, and hours of my time all just to get a clean reinstall?? I've had to go through a complete reinstall with Leopard on this machine alone a good half dozen times in the last 2 years, when 10.9 comes out does this mean that I will have to deal with 6 OS system installs to get a clean reinstall to the latest software? You cant tell me that makes sense.

Upgrade versions of software from other manufacturers often only require that you insert the CD/DVD of the older software if it is not already on the hard drive - they just need proof that you are eligible for the upgrade and legitimately installing the software. One would have thought Apple would do the same, unless past experiences show this not to be the case. In any event, we'll all know on Friday evening - that's how long it will take for someone to try it and see.

Also, have you tried doing the clean install on your current system with only the later OS to see what happens?

[KurtangleTN]

Why can't you just pay the $20 more? It's not that big of a premium to do the right thing.

[lex750]

How old are some of you on here?? I mean seriously? Typical that you would just attack me. I answered someone's question and you attack me. Grow up.

"It's good that forum members remind other forum members that piracy is a no no."

A "no no"... lol

You sound like my mother. How old are you?

[gdhnz]

But the installer would just quit when it notices that I'm not running Leopard right? ATM my MacBook is indeed running leopard, but my point is that when I mess up the computer (which will happen eventually, it always does) previously I've already had a long clean reinstall process involving 3 disks and 2 OS's, not counting any downloadable updates afterwards, to go through.

Who's to say that the SL upgrade disc won't detect you have SL already installed and will allow you to install based on that without having to reinstall all the previous OSes first.

I can't remember where I saw it but I do remember reading somewhere that an SL install will not replace files that have already been updated by an SL update in the future. eg, if you're running 10.6.1 (or whatever) and you need to reinstall, after the reinstall, you'll still be running 10.6.1 (or whatever you were running). I'd assume doing an Erase and Install negates all this.

Of course, take all this with a grain of salt as the product hasn't been released yet.

[Cybbe]

There were a lot of other things that happened during that time that influenced the music industry. The paper is inconclusive.
And your statement that piracy stifles innovation is backed with about as much evidence as the flat earth society. There's simply no proof that piracy leads to less creativity. You may continue to believe so, but evidence suggests otherwise. Hollywood is not disappearing but pump out movies at an ever increasing rate. Music is produced in record numbers. The software industry, and above all Apple, is doing quite well. Games are becoming ever more advanced, expensive, and profitable.

That people are putting less effort into creating software or culture (IP is a legal construct, not something you create) due to file-sharing has no empirical basis, and that's hardly inconclusive.

[gdhnz]

Why can't you just pay the $20 more? It's not that big of a premium to do the right thing.

'cause he's 12 and mommy doesn't give him enough pocket money.

[HLdan]

"It's good that forum members remind other forum members that piracy is a no no."

A "no no"... lol

You sound like my mother. How old are you?

Ahh, noobs. Not worth my time. Stay on topic rather attack others. :p

[mat25]

Ordered mine from Apple Canadian Store.

Unlike most people here it says ships by August 28th and not delivered by August 28th. :(

I also ordered mine from Apple Canadian Store and it also says ships by August 28, but I called apple to ask them about this and the lady told me it would actually deliver by August 28, (she had to ask someone). So hopefully we get it in time.

[Iroganai]

This is starting to sounding like a Christian based forum. "Do as I say not as I do". Stop placing your judgement values on what people are doing. No one is telling you to pirate software. Why are YOU telling others what to do? Live and let live, and keep your morals to yourself.
What? You equate morality with being Christian? You offended me who is a Buddhist... :p

Of course we're mostly of your parents' age! Grow up, you work and you earn your living. The same is true for the employees at Apple. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, right?

And please stop equating morality with being Christian, thank you:)

[MacAndy74]

i have a mid2009 mbp lol. all those can run 64 bit kernels. theyre just not enabled by default

:o and that's fine with me. I don't want to have a fully 64 bit OS X just for the sake of it. I'm happy to wait until 10.7 before I go 64 bit - if I need it.

[MrCrowbar]

Quick question: Is there any benefit in booting the 64 bit kernel on a machine that is 64 bit capable, but not supported by default liuke a late 2009 MBP (13")? I mean, is there a reason it's 64 fault on only a few machines? I thought the Core 2 Duos were all 64 bit capable. :confused:

[StefSSU]

I have a question about Safari in Snow Leopard. Will it be 50% faster (as Apple claims) for everyone or just the brand new machines that are shipping now? For example, I have an early 2008 macbook, will I see a tangible increase in speed?

The Safari 4 in Snow Leopard is the same as Safari 4 available for download, try it and see for yourself. Note, that Apple's benchmarks represent Safari's ability to render web pages and flash/javascript, a new version of safari will not magically make your internet faster, ie. Your download speed is not gonna see a 1.5 times increase because you updated your browser software.

[THX1139]

Is anyone gonna take a chance and order online and hope they get it friday? I think I'll have take a trip to my local apple store and make sure I get it friday.

What if your local Apple store is sold out?

[macfanboy]

Quick question: Is there any benefit in booting the 64 bit kernel on a machine that is 64 bit capable, but not supported by default liuke a late 2009 MBP (13")? I mean, is there a reason it's 64 fault on only a few machines? I thought the Core 2 Duos were all 64 bit capable. :confused:

They are all 64bit capable, but apple doesnt want people to use 64 bit til its POLISHED. you can still use it by pressing 6 and 4 on boot

[r.j.s]

And your statement that piracy stifles innovation is backed with about as much evidence as the flat earth society. There's simply no proof that piracy leads to less creativity. You may continue to believe so, but evidence suggests otherwise. Hollywood is not disappearing but pump out movies at an ever increasing rate. Music is produced in record numbers. The software industry, and above all Apple, is doing quite well. Games are becoming ever more advanced, expensive, and profitable.

That people are putting less effort into creating software or culture (IP is a legal construct, not something you create) due to file-sharing has no empirical basis, and that's hardly inconclusive.

Quantity ≠ quality.

Not everything the Hollywood/music/game industry puts out is creative, most movies/games/music are just a rehash of a previous work.

[macfanboy]

according to apple, 64 bit improves application speed by 1-1.5x. The 64bit kernels will likely help the boot process and the speed of some under-the-hood processes but NOT help any applications that apple ships 64bit with SL.

EDIT: WOOT 1000TH POST IN THIS THREAD

[zwaldowski]

Hope my Up-To-Date Order goes through. :D

[lex750]

Ahh, noobs. Not worth my time. Stay on topic rather attack others. :p

lol... who attacking who with your piracy is a "no no" comment?

Keep your morals at church where they belong.

I'm just sayin'...

[gdhnz]

Quick question: Is there any benefit in booting the 64 bit kernel on a machine that is 64 bit capable, but not supported by default liuke a late 2009 MBP (13")? I mean, is there a reason it's 64 fault on only a few machines? I thought the Core 2 Duos were all 64 bit capable. :confused:

What do you mean by default? The only mac that ships the kernel as 64bit by default is the XServe. All other macs ship with the 32bit kernel by default.

Yes, all Intel Core 2 Duos are 64bit capable, they just don't ship with it enabled by default yet.

Do you have more than 32GB of RAM? If not, a 64bit kernel isn't going to make a lot of difference.