Analyst: Apple Likely to Sell 5 Million Copies of Snow Leopard This Quarter

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/24/analyst-apple-likely-to-sell-5-million-copies-of-snow-leopard-this-quarter/)

In a note to clients released this morning, Piper Jaffray research analyst Gene Munster estimated that Apple will sell approximately 5 million copies of OS X Snow Leopard during the remainder of this quarter. Apple announced (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/24/apple-announces-august-28th-availability-of-snow-leopard/) earlier this morning that the new version of the company's operating system will go on sale this Friday, August 28th.

Munster calculates an average selling price for Snow Leopard of $22, considering the product mix of Leopard upgrades ($29) and "Up-to-Date" purchases for those who have purchased a new Mac since June 8th ($9.95), yielding approximately $110 million in gross revenue for the quarter and about $66 million in net profit based on an estimated 60% profit margin. That result would add approximately $0.05 per share to Apple's earnings for the quarter, although Munster believes that that contribution is already factored into analyst's estimates for the quarter, as pricing and the estimated release date have been known for some time now.

Munster also sees OS X Snow Leopard as relatively minor upgrade, but one which that will allow Apple to position it as a value-priced upgrade for existing users and cutting-edge technology for new users against the "antiquated technology" of Windows users stuck on XP and Vista who are beginning to think about the upgrade path for Windows 7.

Apple sold two million copies (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/30/apple-sells-two-million-copies-of-leopard-in-first-weekend/) of Mac OS X Leopard during its launch weekend in October 2007.

Article Link: Analyst: Apple Likely to Sell 5 Million Copies of Snow Leopard This Quarter (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/24/analyst-apple-likely-to-sell-5-million-copies-of-snow-leopard-this-quarter/)

[thegoldenmackid]

That is why they priced it where they did.

[AngryApple]

That's a lot.

[Paradigm]

This quarter? I think this person meant to say this weekend! My copy is on order.

[Eidorian]

Varying degrees of utility on that "cutting-edge technology" found in Snow Leopard.

Just like in Leopard, just like in Tiger...

In before developers charging for new licenses for Snow Leopard compatible versions of their software. Don't dive in first.

[Mykbibby]

Understandable... what Mac owner that knows about it wouldn't pay 29 dollars for it?

[Hrududu]

Understandable... what Mac owner that knows about it wouldn't pay 29 dollars for it?
I've never been one to upgrade to the newset OS really quick (Didn't install Leopard on any of my systems until about 9 months ago) but for $30 I went ahead and ordered my copy. I'm sure there are lots of people out there who wouldn't bother, but the price is right.

[Lesser Evets]

Understandable... what Mac owner that knows about it wouldn't pay 29 dollars for it?

Exactly. I'm sure they will make the 5 million figure.

[iGod 2.0]

That is why they priced it where they did.

With that price, yeah more than likely Apple is going sell a whole lot of copies of Snow Leopard. The boys at Microsoft and their "special pricing" of Windows 7 doesn't apple to everybody. It's more than likely that Win 7 is going to flop!



Microsoft court-ordered to stop selling Office!!? Now what will they do. *snickers*:D:apple:

[GoodWatch]

Make that 5 million and one :) And against a truly fair upgrade price as well! Good show Apple.

[entropy1980]

I also can see this driving some hardware sales as PPC users may finally be pushed to upgrade to Intel as more software will be released likely to be Intel only.

[Fatdog]

I've never been one to upgrade to the newset OS really quick (Didn't install Leopard on any of my systems until about 9 months ago) but for $30 I went ahead and ordered my copy. I'm sure there are lots of people out there who wouldn't bother, but the price is right.

9 months ago? There is a difference between a "really quick" and glacial pace. :cool:

[seashellz]

"...antiquated technology of Windows..."

he took the words right out of my mouth!

[Hairball]

Apple can count on one from me. I ordered my copy this morning. :D


Now if they wold just put the matte display back on the iMac .....

[Winni]

It's more than likely that Win 7 is going to flop!


Dream on. Already more people have been using the Windows 7 betas and release candidates than Apple has sold Macs that are compatible with Snow Leopard. Microsoft has had more beta testers for Windows 7 than Apple is going to have paying customers for Snow Leopard...

Anyway. I'm placing my order for Snow Leopard now.

[Eidorian]

Dream on. Already more people have been using the Windows 7 betas and release candidates than Apple has sold Macs that are compatible with Snow Leopard. Microsoft has had more beta testers for Windows 7 than Apple is going to have paying customers for Snow Leopard...

Anyway. I'm placing my order for Snow Leopard now.A free for all Beta and RC tends to do that.

I'm waiting for hardware to complement the software. Snow Leopard in 2010 or 2011 here.

[Quillz]

With that price, yeah more than likely Apple is going sell a whole lot of copies of Snow Leopard. The boys at Microsoft and their "special pricing" of Windows 7 doesn't apple to everybody. It's more than likely that Win 7 is going to flop!



Microsoft court-ordered to stop selling Office!!? Now what will they do. *snickers*:D:apple:
And I assume you know that Apple's "special price" of $29 doesn't apply to everybody, too, right? If you're a Tiger user, expect to spend $169 on the Mac Box Set, or $1,000+ on a new Apple computer.

Also, Windows 7 will not be a flop. Neither will Snow Leopard. Both are great operating systems and will be very successful.

Also, the court order applied to just Word, not Office. And even then, there will likely be some kind of loophole found that will get Microsoft out of the situation. (Or they'll just pay off the company that claimed patent infringement.)

"...antiquated technology of Windows..."

he took the words right out of my mouth!
I'd love to see evidence of the "antiquated technology" that exists in Windows.

People who honestly say that don't understand anything about operating systems.

[deconstruct60]

... yielding approximately $110 million in gross revenue for the quarter and about $66 million in net profit based on an estimated 60% profit margin.

That "net profit" presumes that the retailers get 0% profit and just sell the item at cost (and host it on their own inventory). Something somewhat lower would be more accurate. There is a "suggest retail price" and then there is a the real price they distribute the OS at.


[ As far as they will sell more copies than any other store, still have a factor of the even their stores' overhead. ]

Still they are likely to make money. Can't wait for the twilight zone folks to show up to claim this sales of 5 million copies is actually going to HURT Apple's margins because SL costs much more than that and that the end of quarter report in October/November is going to reflect a downturn.

[wonderbread57]

move to page 2 please. snow leopard is boring and an analyst's projection of snow leopard's sales is even more boring. not all of us have stock, literally, in apple's financials.

[jaw04005]

This analyst is an idiot. I would take what he says with a grain of salt. Last week, he put out a statement that Apple was entering the TV business. Munster is rarely right about anything.

Many of his so-called predictions are regurgitations of the rumor mill or just basic common knowledge.

For example, Munster predicts there will be new iPods in September. (OMG! REALLY!??!?! NO WAY!)

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ByteOfTheApple/blog/archives/2008/08/gene_munster_ne.html

[Blue Fox]

Only 5 million copies? I think that is HIGHLY underestimated number. I mean, technically, when I buy the family pack, I'm buying 5 copies.......so if they look at number of licences (which I presume is the case), people like me count as 5 copies sold.

[deconstruct60]

With that price, yeah more than likely Apple is going sell a whole lot of copies of Snow Leopard. The boys at Microsoft and their "special pricing" of Windows 7 doesn't apple to everybody. It's more than likely that Win 7 is going to flop!
:

If Apple sells 4 million copies of SL in first month it is an outrageous success.

If Microsoft sells 4 million copies of Windows 7 in first month it will be labeled a "flop" or "tepid" or "lackluster". [ The copies just bundled with new machines will practically assure they will hit that mark once the Windows 7 images are distributed to the PC system vendors and put into the production lines. ]


Microsoft is certainly not going to sell Windows 7 to 10% of its installed base in the matter of one month. It is much more feasible that Apple could though although that seems a tad aggressive. Post Christmas yeah. 10.6.1 should be out.... only those who want hiccups are going to dive into a x.y.0 version.




Some of this is just mismatched expectations.

[Takuta-Nui]

Let's hope those numbers manifest themselves! I know I'll be contributing. :P

[peterdevries]

Although I agree that Apple will sell a monstrous amount of SL this quarter, I'm going to take this analysis by Munster with a grain of salt, just like "Munster has seen the future of TV and it has an Apple logo on it"-"analysis"... :rolleyes:

[redgaz26]

Dream on. Already more people have been using the Windows 7 betas and release candidates than Apple has sold Macs that are compatible with Snow Leopard. Microsoft has had more beta testers for Windows 7 than Apple is going to have paying customers for Snow Leopard...

Anyway. I'm placing my order for Snow Leopard now.

lets remember that apple have what 10% of the market at most, of course more will have windows, ten times more!!!!!!
but every person I know running windows has some problem with it!!!!!
so glad to be one of the 10%:cool::cool:

[Eric S.]

I don't care if it's $29 or $129, I'll upgrade when I feel like upgrading (which won't be soon), and pay whatever they're asking.

As for Windows 7, just about every reviewer I have read is falling over with praise for it, just as much as they all slammed Vista. It's going to be very popular.

[Grimace]

lets remember that apple have what 10% of the market at most, of course more will have windows, ten times more!!!!!!
but every person I know running windows has some problem with it!!!!!
so glad to be one of the 10%:cool::cool:

Actually, 9x more people would have Windows. :D

[blilly]

I don't care if it's $29 or $129, I'll upgrade when I feel like upgrading (which won't be soon), and pay whatever they're asking.

ummm ... ok. You tell 'em! :rolleyes:

[Michael73]

Yes the price for upgrading to SL is higher for Tiger users, but my guess is that many Tiger users are also on machines with PowerPC chips and aren't even eligible to upgrade anyway. However, once some of these people find this out, there may be a halo effect on Leopard (10.5) which spurs these people to go out an get that OS knowing that it's the end of the upgrade path for them.

As for price and margins, SL has always been a tricky sell because the average consumer is UI focused and really doesn't care, know or care to know what's under the proverbial hood. Many people buy the machines because of looks - shallow, I know. OS 10.6 in a nut shell is designed to get more juice for the squeeze when it comes to existing hardware as well as position Apple to do the same for future hardware generations. From an eye candy POV, SL doesn't really deliver (and that's not what it was designed to do) and that's precisely why it's $29.

On a future note, I can't see Apple giving the same treatment to OS 10.7. I think that release will be much more end-user focused. What will be neat will be in 18-24 months when Apple it unveils 10.7 and says, "In 2009 we gave you Grand Central and OpenCL. We've been hard at work utilizing those technologies ourselves and this is what their power can do...Behold, we give you 10.7!"

[Schizoid]

One Hundred BILLION Dollars!

[idsoftware]

Let's hope those numbers manifest themselves! I know I'll be contributing. :P

cant wait.. lets blow that 5 million mark.....

[DudeDad]

"I'd love to see evidence of the "antiquated technology" that exists in Windows."

Just go into the DOS command prompt and you will find it.

[jaw04005]

What will be neat will be in 18-24 months when Apple it unveils 10.7 and says, "In 2009 we gave you Grand Central and OpenCL. We've been hard at work utilizing those technologies ourselves and this is what their power can do...Behold, we give you 10.7!"

Yeah. I think they'll fast track 10.7 too. I bet it gets previewed at next year's WWDC. That would be 10 or so months after Snow Leopard shipped. I predict a Spring 2011 (March-June 2011) release date. :D

Apple's OS X feature teams had to be working on something these last few years. Surely, they weren't all working on the iPhone or tablet.

[elmancho]

On a future note, I can't see Apple giving the same treatment to OS 10.7. I think that release will be much more end-user focused. What will be neat will be in 18-24 months when Apple it unveils 10.7 and says, "In 2009 we gave you Grand Central and OpenCL. We've been hard at work utilizing those technologies ourselves and this is what their power can do...Behold, we give you 10.7!"[/QUOTE]

Clap Clap Clap !!!

[elmancho]

Apple's OS X feature teams had to be working on something these last few years. Surely, they weren't all working on the iPhone or tablet.[/QUOTE]


HAHAHA

[run-kmc]

"I'd love to see evidence of the "antiquated technology" that exists in Windows."

Just go into the DOS command prompt and you will find it.

Because a DOS prompt is so much older and more antiquated than the unix command line. :D

[Schizoid]

"I'd love to see evidence of the "antiquated technology" that exists in Windows."

Just go into the DOS command prompt and you will find it.

Just like opening the Terminal and pottering in 70s command line...

[SFStateStudent]

As soon as I get my $49 Family Pack of SL will that equate to 5,000,005 or 5,000,001? :p

[redgaz26]

great post from an article on pc world of all places which sums it up for me

"Macs aren't for everyone, but for those who can afford the best, it's silly to settle for less."

[elgrecomac]

10 million in the first weekend. We live in a niche market. Sometimes that is better.

[elgrecomac]

Because a DOS prompt is so much older and more antiquated than the unix command line. :D

Seriously funny.....and true! Lets just admit it....Win 7 is Vista with a prettier face and Snore Leopard is Unix with major breast augmentation and liposuction!

[ghostface147]

Can't wait to do a clean install, which is possible.

[macrumorsMaster]

Microsoft court-ordered to stop selling Office!!? Now what will they do. *snickers*:D:apple:
Give it away free! That's what they're doing w/the next version :D

[deputy_doofy]

Because a DOS prompt is so much older and more antiquated than the unix command line. :D

Well, you have to admit, the usage of DLLs and the registry is pretty antiquated. It also helps with the whole Winrot issue...

[macdaveaustin]

Although I agree that Apple will sell a monstrous amount of SL this quarter, I'm going to take this analysis by Munster with a grain of salt, just like "Munster has seen the future of TV and it has an Apple logo on it"-"analysis"... :rolleyes:

Keep in mind that Munster declared Snow Leopard a "minor update" while ignoring QuickTime X, Grand Central Dispatch (very useful in those 8-core Mac Pro's), OpenCL and (from the Snow Leopard specs), "Mac OS X Snow Leopard delivers built-in support for the latest version of Microsoft Exchange Server, something even Windows PCs don’t have."

Wall Street analysts who don't pounce on that as an important update shouldn't be allowed to work on Wall Street.

[andy721]

What about the other 25million who get it free? Legally & illegally.

[Bubba Satori]

It's more than likely that Win 7 is going to flop!

No, but don't let that get in the way of the warm, fuzzy feeling you're reveling in now.

[Bubba Satori]

One Hundred BILLION Dollars!

:confused:

[rtheb]

:confused:

http://www.fmft.net/Zimbabwe%20Zimbabwean%20Dollar%20%20100%20Billion%20Dollar%20Note.jpg

[markm49uk]

Can't wait - the disk space released will be useful and am looking forward to the 64 bit Safari....:D

[Nexus4144]

http://www.fmft.net/Zimbabwe%20Zimbabwean%20Dollar%20%20100%20Billion%20Dollar%20Note.jpg

lol isnt that like worth $10 USD now?? lol so my first day of college ends with me finding out that SL comes out. not a bad day to start college :D cant wait till the friday now!

[BongoBanger]

Munster also sees OS X Snow Leopard as relatively minor upgrade, but one which that will allow Apple to position it as a value-priced upgrade for existing users and cutting-edge technology for new users against the "antiquated technology" of Windows users stuck on XP and Vista who are beginning to think about the upgrade path for Windows 7.

You know, that's a really stupid thing to say given that Snow Leopard wont run on PPC Macs.

[Eric S.]

Yeah. I think they'll fast track 10.7 too. I bet it gets previewed at next year's WWDC. That would be 10 or so months after Snow Leopard shipped. I predict a Spring 2011 (March-June 2011) release date. :D

Remember that after Leopard's release, which came 30 months after Tiger's, Apple promised that future OS upgrades would be leaner and faster to market. In fact they predicted 12-18 months between major releases. Now we have Snow Leopard, with mostly "under the hood" modifications, and the period since the release of Leopard is ... 22 months.

[Bubba Satori]

Remember that after Leopard's release, which came 30 months after Tiger's, Apple promised that future OS upgrades would be leaner and faster to market. In fact they predicted 12-18 months between major releases. Now we have Snow Leopard, with mostly "under the hood" modifications, and the period since the release of Leopard is ... 22 months.

And new features has gone from the mythic 300 to 3.

[reallynotnick]

Remember that after Leopard's release, which came 30 months after Tiger's, Apple promised that future OS upgrades would be leaner and faster to market. In fact they predicted 12-18 months between major releases. Now we have Snow Leopard, with mostly "under the hood" modifications, and the period since the release of Leopard is ... 22 months.

Well if they keep charging $30 every year I guess I will be ok, episodic OSs anyone? lol
But I think I would be more happy with the 18-24 month range.

[FSMBP]

Remember that after Leopard's release, which came 30 months after Tiger's, Apple promised that future OS upgrades would be leaner and faster to market. In fact they predicted 12-18 months between major releases. Now we have Snow Leopard, with mostly "under the hood" modifications, and the period since the release of Leopard is ... 22 months.

I agree. I was hoping 10.6 would have been out by WWDC. I really hope from now on they continue to do this.

BUT, I have a feeling that 10.7 will be out around Jan. 2011. Snow Leopard seems to be a stepping stone to a complete new OS X, with cleaning and optimizing finished in 10.6. So in 10.7, they will focus on features and since 10.6 is a minor upgrade, I can see the next OS coming out a lot sooner.

[ctucci]

:confused:

I'm guessing that was a take off on Doctor Evil...

[McBeats]

is it possible to update to snow leopard from tiger for only 29 bucks?

[wizard]

Understandable... what Mac owner that knows about it wouldn't pay 29 dollars for it?

If you have even a modest understanding of computer operating systems and the new feature Snow Leopard brings you would understand that it is an incredible bargain. There are sure to be rough spots but I think most of us will adopt sooner rather than later. Me, I'll adopt first thing On the 28th and work around any issues that crop up.

In any event I'm beginning to wonder if there is a long term plan at Apple to squezze Micro Soft with future low cost OS updates? Think about it Apple is in it's strongest position yet to impact profitability at MicroSoft. Where would MS be if they had to charge $30 a copy for the next great Winfows release. It will be interesting to see if Apple is going to play hardball here.


Dave

[wizard]

I agree. I was hoping 10.6 would have been out by WWDC. I really hope from now on they continue to do this.

To frequent updates cause their own issues. It was on of my big frustration with some of the Linux distros. You end up spending way to much time with reinstalls, program compatibility issues and bloat. 18 to 24 months is just about right for major OS updates. Further if you buy new hardware every 3 to 5 years you can get by with one or two major installs.

BUT, I have a feeling that 10.7 will be out around Jan. 2011. Snow Leopard seems to be a stepping stone to a complete new OS X, with cleaning and optimizing finished in 10.6.

Yep! I'm not sure what is coming next but resolution independence would seem to be a good possibility. We might also start to see some real AI. AI combine with voice input would seem like the rational next step.


So in 10.7, they will focus on features and since 10.6 is a minor upgrade, I can see the next OS coming out a lot sooner.

Now this statement frustrates me big time. SL is a major update. Apple may down play it because of the lack of user features but under the hood it is huge.


Dave

[techfreak85]

i thought i read somewhere else that it was for this weekend.

[vanc]

Although I have pre-ordered SL, I won't upgrade my work mac. There are still loads of software not compatible. Need to wait for several months.

[LEStudios]

This quarter? I think this person meant to say this weekend! My copy is on order.

Yeah I predict over 7 Million copies possible 15 Million by December. :cool:

[JGowan]

I think that number is low. Leopard was 2M for first weekend and he thinks there'll be only 5M for an entire quarter? No. Higher.

[leomac08]

One Hundred BILLION Dollars!

ONE TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

the u.s gov't will be asking apple to bail them out;)

[*LTD*]

Friday will be HUGE. Can't wait. Will be nice to do a clean install.

[FSMBP]

To frequent updates cause their own issues. It was on of my big frustration with some of the Linux distros. You end up spending way to much time with reinstalls, program compatibility issues and bloat. 18 to 24 months is just about right for major OS updates. Further if you buy new hardware every 3 to 5 years you can get by with one or two major installs.

Yep! I'm not sure what is coming next but resolution independence would seem to be a good possibility. We might also start to see some real AI. AI combine with voice input would seem like the rational next step.



Now this statement frustrates me big time. SL is a major update. Apple may down play it because of the lack of user features but under the hood it is huge.


Dave

About the last part, I was meant to show that end-users are probably most happy with end-user features (ex. Time Machine) as opposed to "under the hood changes", hence 10.6 being a minor update. I personally understand all the impact of changes, rewritten code, etc. but Apple knows end-users want more "new features" and that's why are only charging $29.

10.7 will be able to bring 100s of end-user features due to the strong foundation inherited from 10.6.

[IBradMac]

Put me in the hat as well! i ordered at first mention!

[techfreak85]

One Hundred BILLION Dollars!

ONE TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D

the u.s gov't will be asking apple to bail them out;)
i beg to differ. i bet it will be

OVER 9,000!!!!!!(dollars)
:p

[AidenShaw]

Well, you have to admit, the usage of DLLs and the registry is pretty antiquated. It also helps with the whole Winrot issue...

But OSX uses DLLs as well - they just use a different spelling. I don't know of any significant OS that doesn't use DLLs.

Frameworks and Binding
Dynamic binding of Mach-O libraries brings a considerable power and flexibility to Mac OS X. Through dynamic binding, frameworks can be updated transparently without requiring applications to relink to them. At runtime, a single copy of the library’s code is shared among all the processes using it, thus reducing memory usage and improving system performance.

Dynamic Shared Libraries
The executable code in a framework bundle is a dynamically linked, shared library—or, simply, a dynamic shared library. This is a library whose code can be shared by multiple concurrently running programs.

Dynamic shared libraries bring several benefits. One benefit is that they enable memory to be used more efficiently. Instead of programs retaining a copy of the code in memory, all programs share the same copy. Dynamic shared libraries also make it easier for developers to fix bugs in library code. Because the library is linked dynamically, the new library can be installed without rebuilding programs that rely on it.

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPFrameworks/Concepts/FrameworkBinding.html


And as far as the timeline goes, scattering hundreds of text files called "preferences" across the filesystem predates a transaction-based robust database for configuration data by a long time.

Whatever you want to say about the Windows registry, calling it "antiquated" is easily shown to be nonsense.

[numbersyx]

is it possible to update to snow leopard from tiger for only 29 bucks?

No - you have to buy the value pack containing SL, iLife and iWorks for $169. Still not a bad value actually if you don't have any of them...

[jellomizer]

Also, Windows 7 will not be a flop. Neither will Snow Leopard. Both are great operating systems and will be very successful.

We will need to wait and see about Windows 7. It may be better then Vista however XP created a Good Enough factor. As well the fact that most people skipped a version they will need to face a larger migration cost as a larger portion of their Old XP apps will not probably work, or work well.

However people could be needy for these new features as well and will jump to Windows 7. However I am not expecting the big lines in the stores like for Windows 95. Or Every Major version of OS X.

[jellomizer]

But OSX uses DLLs as well - they just use a different spelling. I don't know of any significant OS that doesn't use DLLs.

And as far as the timeline goes, scattering hundreds of text files called "preferences" across the filesystem predates a transaction-based robust database for configuration data by a long time.

Whatever you want to say about the Windows registry, calling it "antiquated" is easily shown to be nonsense.

Separate text files for each app when gets corrupted doesn't disable an entire system. Also these preference files are more readable also being that their text files you have multiple tools that will allow you to modify them.

Microsoft tends to code towards complex solutions for simple problems, probably so they can get an extra tick on a benchmark test. But don't confuse complexity with a good solution. Reducing your points of failure even if you have a stable system is a good idea.

[Eidorian]

We will need to wait and see about Windows 7. It may be better then Vista however XP created a Good Enough factor. As well the fact that most people skipped a version they will need to face a larger migration cost as a larger portion of their Old XP apps will not probably work, or work well.

However people could be needy for these new features as well and will jump to Windows 7. However I am not expecting the big lines in the stores like for Windows 95. Or Every Major version of OS X.Even my decade old software for Windows is running immaculately under Windows 7. I can't say the same about OS X.

What problems again?

[deputy_doofy]

But OSX uses DLLs as well - they just use a different spelling. I don't know of any significant OS that doesn't use DLLs.




And as far as the timeline goes, scattering hundreds of text files called "preferences" across the filesystem predates a transaction-based robust database for configuration data by a long time.

Whatever you want to say about the Windows registry, calling it "antiquated" is easily shown to be nonsense.

Well, OS X may call its version of DLLs something else - if that's what they really even are - but in all my years of using Mac (from OS 5 or 6 to the current OS), I have never experienced an error similar to that of Windows 9x thru Vista, where a DLL is missing, corrupt, needs to be registered, etc. Therefore, we can certainly say that MS' implementation of DLL files is antiquated.

[Eidorian]

Well, OS X may call its version of DLLs something else - if that's what they really even are - but in all my years of using Mac (from OS 5 or 6 to the current OS), I have never experienced an error similar to that of Windows 9x thru Vista, where a DLL is missing, corrupt, needs to be registered, etc. Therefore, we can certainly say that MS' implementation of DLL files is antiquated.Missing frameworks you say? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=765661)

They were lucky that I had encountered it before.

[KnightWRX]

But OSX uses DLLs as well - they just use a different spelling. I don't know of any significant OS that doesn't use DLLs.

The difference being that Unix Shared Libraries have forever had versioning. This was and is still the major problem of DLLs. With no versioning system in place and a good way to distribute and install specific versions in the system without overwriting other versions installed, you got DLL Hell, where every vendor would just ship their own version of the library and place them in their application folder, thereby completely destroying any of the strengths that dynamic linking offered over static linking.

And as far as the timeline goes, scattering hundreds of text files called "preferences" across the filesystem predates a transaction-based robust database for configuration data by a long time.

Haha, robust. Yeah right. Even on Windows 2003 Server we still get problems where Hives get stuck and users can't log on, requiring manual unloading... and sometimes reboots. At least, they merged Regedt32.exe and regedit.exe now and you can use the same registry editor to unload the hives. I had to teach the Windows admin about this "feature" too... Intuitive when a full blown Windows server admin with 10 years experience doesn't know about hives and how to manipulate them. Not to mention all the Hives are scattered across the filesystem (Each user having his own under Document and Settings... oh sorry, they renamed that in Vista...)

Also, nevermind the fact that most settings in the Registry aren't documented or poorly documented, are named things like DWORD and usually made to be cryptic (I'm not talking about 3rd party settings here, Microsoft's own registry settings are a mess to comprehend).

Vs proper system level configuration files placed in a single directory, $PREFIX/etc, and containing in-line documentation in the form of comments, with human readable and editable settings...

The fact is, text configuration files work. They are easy to maintain, easy to version, easy to deploy, easy to backup, easy to restore. I loathe the move to XML like most commercial offerings on Unix are doing, forcing to either scan through cryptic nested tags or use a Web based admin interface to make changes.

[deputy_doofy]

Missing frameworks you say? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=765661)

They were lucky that I had encountered it before.

I don't doubt that this problem has happened, but it's certainly not the norm (even if it was a problem that hit people using 10.4.11, or whichever version it was).

The point is, Apple has a pretty flawless record in this area, whereas I remember that stupid chime on Windows 9x for "missing DLL file."

[Eidorian]

I don't doubt that this problem has happened, but it's certainly not the norm (even if it was a problem that hit people using 10.4.11, or whichever version it was).

The point is, Apple has a pretty flawless record in this area, whereas I remember that stupid chime on Windows 9x for "missing DLL file."It isn't 1998 friend. We're post NT 5.0 now. ;)

I do prefer Apple's approach and what you can do with OS X on the administration side but you're still stuck buying Macs to do it.

The demons of 9x and Mac OS Classic still get dragged along today.

[deconstruct60]

I think that number is low. Leopard was 2M for first weekend and he thinks there'll be only 5M for an entire quarter? No. Higher.

1. The Quarter Ends on Sept. 30. That is only 4 and 1/2 weeks after the launch date. ( It is not 3 months of sales).

2. The Mac installed base is likely in the 50 million range. 5M over 4 weeks is 10% of that buying the upgrade. 7M is about 14% and 10M is about 20%.
Plus need to factor in how many of those folks are still on 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 who can't upgrade to 10.6. There are many millions of folks who have PPC machines who aren't going to buy.


[ The installed Windows bases is in the 100's of millions range. ]


Even if 10, 15, or 20% of the install base buys it in the first 4 weeks. Who is going to buy in the next 100 days??? They may turn the rushing herd into a bigger rushing herd ... (the price is targeted for this effect though. )




3. Throw in that the default kernel you get in SL for the vast majority of machines is a 32-bit kernel. same as Leopard and lots of folks are going to yawn at this one once the details become more clear. A 64-bit finder and system apps and the GUI looks mostly the same. Most folks buy their Mac primarily to run applications others than those.


Plus let there is the let the early adopters finish testing it syndrome. You know there is going to be some FUBAR bugs. There always are. Won't kill folks to wait 5-6 weeks for the dust to settle and a 10.6.1 or 10.6.2 to come out. Lots of folks use their Mac to run critical business systems. You don't want to fiddle with something that hasn't gotten an earned stable reputation.

Once "must have" 10.6 apps come that will be a more sustainable driver than the "gotta have Apple's latest anything" crowd.

[deputy_doofy]

It isn't 1998 friend. We're post NT 5.0 now. ;)

I do prefer Apple's approach and what you can do with OS X on the administration side but you're still stuck buying Macs to do it.

The demons of 9x and Mac OS Classic still get dragged along today.

I agree and I'm not trying to start a Windows-bashing session. But.... in 2009... and this past Friday.............. I got a DLL error on Vista. Just has a nicer alert sound. :p

[AidenShaw]

Separate text files for each app when gets corrupted doesn't disable an entire system. Also these preference files are more readable also being that their text files you have multiple tools that will allow you to modify them.

An error in an application key in the registry is equivalent to an error in a preferences file.

A random bad registry entry doesn't disable the system any more than a random bad text line in a preferences file disables the system.

"Ugh - registry bad" is a knee-jerk reaction, although I admit that I so often see "trash the preferences" being offered as the solution to an Apple OS problem. Perhaps Microsoft needs to add a macro facility "delete all registry keys for application X" to give the same functionality that Apple users get with the "rm" command".

[Eidorian]

I agree and I'm not trying to start a Windows-bashing session. But.... in 2009... and this past Friday.............. I got a DLL error on Vista. Just has a nicer alert sound. :pI only get those when running some really off application to dump my game modules so I can modify them. I had to go hunt down the DLLs needed and install them. It works under Vista but not under 7. The program hasn't been updated since 2008 either.

Was your DLL message at least as helpful as mine was? :rolleyes:

I could contact the developer or hunt their forums but I've been busy.

[KnightWRX]

An error in an application key in the registry is equivalent to an error in a preferences file.

A random bad registry entry doesn't disable the system any more than a random bad text line in a preferences file disables the system.

"Ugh - registry bad" is a knee-jerk reaction, although I admit that I so often see "trash the preferences" being offered as the solution to an Apple OS problem. Perhaps Microsoft needs to add a macro facility "delete all registry keys for application X" to give the same functionality that Apple users get with the "rm" command".

I've seen quite a few corrupted USER.DAT files that required the recreation of a user's profile. Users are never happy when they lose all their settings. Sure, they're not system wide to the point that the system is unbootable, but it's still a good head ache.

I'd rather just delete .application and just redo 1 application's settings. Not to mention I don't need any special plugins to backup and restore flat text files.

[deputy_doofy]

I only get those when running some really off application to dump my game modules so I can modify them. I had to go hunt down the DLLs needed and install them. It works under Vista but not under 7. The program hasn't been updated since 2008 either.

Was your DLL message at least as helpful as mine was? :rolleyes:

I could contact the developer or hunt their forums but I've been busy.

Probably, since I don't remember the exact message. :D
You know, I try to give all OSs a chance, even Linux. I admit, I'm pretty Linux-illiterate, but I like to mess with it.

As soon as I see a BIG update to MBPs (Core i5/7, cheaper and bigger SSD, etc.), I plan on getting a machine to house numerous OSs. My 160gb just isn't cutting it for that kind of use.

[Eidorian]

I'm sure we can drag up all our horror stories about "insert operating system here". Does that really get us anywhere though?

Probably, since I don't remember the exact message. :D
You know, I try to give all OSs a chance, even Linux. I admit, I'm pretty Linux-illiterate, but I like to mess with it.

As soon as I see a BIG update to MBPs (Core i5/7, cheaper and bigger SSD, etc.), I plan on getting a machine to house numerous OSs. My 160gb just isn't cutting it for that kind of use.I've been trying to set aside a "Week with Linux" at home for some time. Someday...

[twoodcc]

i predict 4 million this weekend

[AidenShaw]

I've seen quite a few corrupted USER.DAT files that required the recreation of a user's profile.

I haven't.

Anyway, no point in starting a p#ssing match about registry vs. text preference files. Most of the time for most users both work well.

My original point was that using "antiquated" for the registry is absurd - the registry is much newer than text preferences.

[i.mac]

...


I'd love to see evidence of the "antiquated technology" that exists in Windows.

People who honestly say that don't understand anything about operating systems.

are you kidding?

just to mention a few (has any of this been corrected in win7?):

1. no native ssh support, need to install cygwin or use other third party solutions
2. no native Posix compliant OS (yes, I know about MS Posix subsystem and SFU and other tools, they all suck to the point of making you bang your head against the wall, useless to the brim),
3. no native Posix compliant build tools,
4. no support for GNU tools,
5. no virtual desktops (unless you download the extra toys or tokens)
7. proprietary every thing, far from open and free (as in open source and free to use any software in the OS)
8. no native cross compatibility of just about any thing (this is very antiquated)

...etc...

notice, windows with no native virtual desktops is very antiquated. I have been using virtual desktops in Iris OS, Sun since 1992, and in Linux since a bit later, in Mac OS, etc... Windows? Nope, how is this for antiquated OS?


Disclaimer: I dislike MS greatly, and make very little effort to do any work in there (none, actually). Have never touch windows vista nor win7.

[i.mac]

Even my decade old software for Windows is running immaculately under Windows 7. I can't say the same about OS X.

What problems again?

Sorry, but the fact that you can run a decade old software in windows does not say much one way or the other. Have you heard of UNIX? They have this little command: ls

Has been around for 40 years and still works. :)

However, UNIX is not antiquated, windows is.

[wizard]

About the last part, I was meant to show that end-users are probably most happy with end-user features (ex. Time Machine) as opposed to "under the hood changes", hence 10.6 being a minor update. I personally understand all the impact of changes, rewritten code, etc. but Apple knows end-users want more "new features" and that's why are only charging $29.

Personally those under the hood changes are exactly why I'm excited and will be installing Snow Leopard soon. A faster more stable Safari is a big deal, the same goes for many of the other apps supplied with the OS. Do I expect major interface changes - nope but some of the leaked features are compelling. Frankly Finder needs all the improving Apple can throw at it.

Those are Apple apps for the most part. What I'm hoping for is a quick adoption of the underlying OS features by third party developers. Given the right effort we should see a whole new generation of apps that perform smartly.


10.7 will be able to bring 100s of end-user features due to the strong foundation inherited from 10.6.

This I agree with totally. They question is where will Apple focus it's attention. Will it be minor tweaks to quartz or something new perhaps in the way of AI. Some may laugh at the mention of AI but very soon we will have an amazing amount of computational resources available that could lead to bleeding edge AI. In any event I'm most curious about where Apple will take us. In many ways Mac OS/X is very complete when judged against contemporary OS's so apple will need to break new ground.




Dave

[wizard]

I haven't.

Anyway, no point in starting a p#ssing match about registry vs. text preference files. Most of the time for most users both work well.

Both work well? That sounds like someone starting a pissing match.


My original point was that using "antiquated" for the registry is absurd - the registry is much newer than text preferences.

Antiquated might not be perfect but it gets you close. If you look at it from the standpoint of tools required to manipulate your settings the registry is obviously antiquated or poorly supported. Human & computer readable files can be manipulated by all sorts of tools from Vim to XML processing tools. Many of those tools are very modern indeed.

Now I do have sense of life on every side of the fence as I support Windows machines at work, and have more than passing knowledge of Linux. The Mac fares fairly well against these systems. However I'm not so blind as to not see issues with the Mac. Still I see the Mac as being more modern than the other systems.

So is the registry antiquated? It is debatable but I prefer to call it boneheaded. Let's face it the registry isn't one of MS greatest operating system developments. This from a guy that has written production software that uses the registry.


Dave

[doctor-don]

I think that number is low. Leopard was 2M for first weekend and he thinks there'll be only 5M for an entire quarter? No. Higher.

Apple's quarter ends on September 30. His statement was that Apple would sell 5 million copies of SL during the remainder of this quarter. That's about one month.

[Wakakanada]

In these tough economic times, I think the market is clearly divided into the budget hunters that PC's are targeting and the upscale Apple market to whom a $30 upgrade is nothing. The ego stroke of having the most current OS for their luxury brand computers will be irresistible for the majority of mac owners I would expect. This upgrade will set records for number of sales I bet.

[alaki]

I will wait until all initial problems are known and solved.
After all, the difference is not that much obvious in everyday usage.

[wizard]

In these tough economic times, I think the market is clearly divided into the budget hunters that PC's are targeting and the upscale Apple market to whom a $30 upgrade is nothing.

this is BS!

Consider what MS wil charge for the next version of windows. While Apple hardware isn't always state of the art performance wise there are many other ways to measure value. One good example is the low power nature of Apples desktops.

The ego stroke of having the most current OS for their luxury brand computers will be irresistible for the majority of mac owners I would expect.

The joy is no different than my Linux new installs. It has nothing to do with the platforms status. If you could only see my Linux machines you would realize there is no luxury there. The good feeling is the same no matter what the platform. Heck some app releases can do it for me.
This upgrade will set records for number of sales I bet.

That is my feeling also. It might start off slow but as people realize it's better qualities uptake should remain robust.



Dave

[JFreak]

Perhaps Microsoft needs to add a macro facility "delete all registry keys for application X" to give the same functionality that Apple users get with the "rm" command".

Perhaps? They should have had it in 1994 before they introduced the Registry to general public. I cannot believe there isn't one, people have been fighting with the registry for 15 years now.

I myself prefer the preference file system. Windows had it pre-95 and it worked well. Actually, it worked so well that people actually changed prefs themselves by editing the files, so MS thought that the files should be hidden to make it more difficult (for stupid people to make stupid mistakes). Stupid assumption, stupid solution.

But surely the prefs need to be stored somewhere. Centralized or distributed storage, that's the question.

[DB2k]

Does the family pack I bought for my 2 macs count as 5 in this analysis then?

[iphones4evry1]

Apple just changed their homepage. Check this out...

[talkingfuture]

If the analysts are predicting 5 million this quarter I will predict 5.5 million this weekend. Followed by a lot of analysts revising their predictions!

[BongoBanger]

However people could be needy for these new features as well and will jump to Windows 7. However I am not expecting the big lines in the stores like for Windows 95. Or Every Major version of OS X.

Well no you won't since the pre-orders were done on line and are due for delivery on 22 October.

[Firefly2002]

Understandable... what Mac owner that knows about it wouldn't pay 29 dollars for it?

Ones that.... don't own a 64-bit Intel-based mac?

[EarthDawn]

Got mine on order as well...

can't wait !

[RebootD]

I will happily buy an upgrade to 10.6 when I know every piece of software will run perfectly on it. (And show some speed gains otherwise my system is running great as is)

I learned the hard way with 10.5 when CS3 programs kept crashing and refused to make PDF files for months until Adobe decided to fix it.

[DudeDad]

While I plan on purchasing SL on Friday, and really can't wait, I think Apple may get slammed because, IMO, it has not warned folks that if they have PPC versions of programs on their systems now, they will not run under SL unless you download Rosetta. I went into System Profiler-->Applications and looked at all of the apps that were PPC apps. Most I don't use anymore and dumped, but some required updating (like my Citrix Client). It's a good idea to get the Intel or Universal versions now, before you updgrade to SL. I think there will be a lot of pissed off users who did not get their ducks in a row, only to find that there may not be Intel/Universal versions of their programs.

[BlueRevolution]

Apple is likely to sell at least 50 copies of Snow Leopard, all to MacRumors users. Come on. Most of the users out there will be owners of new Macs. Why would anyone else want to pay money for it?

[jaw04005]

I think there will be a lot of pissed off users who did not get their ducks in a row, only to find that there may not be Intel/Universal versions of their programs.

The OS prompts you to download Rosetta when you attempt to run a PPC application. I don't think it's going to be a big deal. How much easier can they make it?

[DudeDad]

The OS prompts you to download Rosetta when you attempt to run a PPC application. I don't think it's going to be a big deal. How much easier can they make it?

That is awesome....not a beta tester, did not know....that's actually fantastic! Thanks! Can't wait for SL!

[LEStudios]

Yeah I predict over 7 Million copies possible 15 Million by December. :cool:

Amazon now offering Snow Leopard for $24.99, Family Pack for $43.99! :eek:

If You ordered already don't worry your price will get adjusted! :D

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001AMHWP8?tag=thepartim-20&camp=213381&creative=390973&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B001AMHWP8&adid=06RYWA6D6J5R2GEKJ5E9&


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3543/3856702013_e465dd1da7_o.jpg

[MorphingDragon]

I haven't.

Anyway, no point in starting a p#ssing match about registry vs. text preference files. Most of the time for most users both work well.

My original point was that using "antiquated" for the registry is absurd - the registry is much newer than text preferences.

Theyre both little lumps of strings (Or Boolean settings) used to hold an OS together. Which one is more old?

Why arent we using XML yet?

[Chimpy]

You gotta love Amazon. $25 for an OS upgrade? I think Microsoft should pay attention. Granted, I got my Windows 7 upgrade for "only" $50, but that's because I acted within a limited time window. That same upgrade goes for $100 now. Ridiculous.

[*LTD*]

Amazon now offering Snow Leopard for $24.99, Family Pack for $43.99! :eek:

If You ordered already don't worry your price will get adjusted! :D

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001AMHWP8?tag=thepartim-20&camp=213381&creative=390973&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B001AMHWP8&adid=06RYWA6D6J5R2GEKJ5E9&


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3543/3856702013_e465dd1da7_o.jpg

Deals everywhere.

And Apple's homepage actually looks nice with Snowball on it.