Last Minute WWDC Notes...

[MacRumors]

As initially reported by ThinkSecret (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040624185017.shtml), it appears that WWDC will bring long awaited Display Updates.

It appears, however, that Appleinsider's pricing report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040621193442.shtml) is not accurate. Their report claimed a price drop for the new displays with prices ranging from $999 (20") to $2999 (30").

Instead, based on sources, it appears that the revised 20" and 23" displays will keep their current prices, and the 30" will be introduced at above $3000.

MacRumors should have coverage of the WWDC Keynote tomorrow which starts at 10AM Pacific.

[javabear90]

wasn't the airport express just updated? And the display pricing sux

[windowsblowsass]

so do we have any news on what the displays will look like

[mikeyredk]

$999 for a 20 inch display sign me up

[MacBoy88]

MacRumors should have coverage of the WWDC Keynote tomorrow which starts at 10AM Pacific.

YAH!!

[mms]

Coverage as in text or QuickTime stream?

[Phat_Pat]

13 more hours!!!!!!! :D :D :D

[arn]

so do we have any news on what the displays will look like

it's assumed to look like the ones depicted in ThinkSecret's renditions

arn

[AliensAreFuzzy]

If that new pricing is right, it will suck. It'd be really nice if those $999-$3000 prices are right.

[nexusfx]

Well correct your flub there reporters, express was just released

Anyways, I'm just gonna sit back and wait till the announcements before I address anything, looking forward to it.......that simple.

"It Just Works"
700Mhz G4 iMac
160 GB Internal Hard Drive 7200 RPM
512 MB RAM

[aswitcher]

What happened to the Airport update mentioned????

[Photorun]

I know we're still at the speculatin stage but if Apple actually drops to 17 inch, goes to the 20, 23 and 30 AND keeps the pricing for the 20 and 23 that'd be just one of the most stupid things Apple has pulled since the $10,000 Lisa.

[gwuMACaddict]

i'm still a little bummed about no new imac, but i am excited to see the new displays

[Wonder Boy]

i want an updated isync, damn it. 13 hours till disapointment...

[~Shard~]

A price drop in the displays would have been excellent, but regardless, it will still be great to have new ones - I'm curious to see exactly what they're going to look like!

And any word if there will indeed be a feed or not, or just constant text updates here at MacRumors?

[nsb3000]

Well, this doesn't really make much difference to me, I wasn't going to buy them anyway. If you are going to spend more than $1,000 on a display, what difference does a few extra hundred make?

[PowerMacMan]

We are almost there..!

I can't sleep :(

[Freg3000]

Pricing is a big no-no.....why the hell did it take 18 months for a 20 inch display at $1299 to become.......a 20 inch display at $1299 with some extra ports???

WHY?

[nsb3000]

Coverage as in text or QuickTime stream?

If History repeats itself, there will be a live text stream on Macrumors.com, followed by a streaming video after the event has been completed on Apple's site.

[JonYo]

What does everyonee think the inventory is like on the old displays? If the prices get reduced as they try to move those out, I might consider going dual-display on my G5 and buying a second one of the older model 20" cinema displays to match my current 20" cinema display.

[nsb3000]

i'm still a little bummed about no new imac, but i am excited to see the new displays

Hey, you never know. I'm still holding out hope for a new G5 iMac...

[LaMerVipere]

Pricing is a big no-no.....why the hell did it take 18 months for a 20 inch display at $1299 to become.......a 20 inch display at $1299 with some extra ports???

WHY?

I agree! So the cheapest Apple Display is going to be 1300 bucks, wow, that's great marketing! It will make sales soar~! :rolleyes:

Big mistake on Apple's part if they don't offer a cheapers display.

[2A Batterie]

I've been waiting to purchase my first new Mac (2.5 G5) until the new displays come out. If there is no price change, their darn better well be some new bells and whistles. If the prices that appleinsder were correct, I would've bought the 23 HD, but now since it seems they weren't correct. $999 for "20 would've been a no-brainer for everyone, except maybe Apple.

[rendezvouscp]

Well, this doesn't really make much difference to me, I wasn't going to buy them anyway. If you are going to spend more than $1,000 on a display, what difference does a few extra hundred make?

A huge difference. As a student, the pricing is a very big deal between getting a few extra apps or not.
–Chase

[ultrafiel]

Man, that will suck if the prices are the same. I would buy a 20" for $999, but not for $300 more. I just can't justify it. I just laid down $3000 for a G5, and I can't afford a lot more. If there are discounts with new systems and a display I'm going to be ticked off though, because my G5 is only 1 week old. In any case, we'll see what tomorrow brings. I still want a new display.

[thedogcow]

So basically if you're buying the new 23inch, you get the new design but without the 500 brilliant savings rebate?

That sucks

[a17inchFuture]

wouldnt it be sweet if apple surprised everyone tomorrow with that optical pad/scroll mouse thing . . . they really need to hop on that bandwagon already

one button mouse is way too simplistic

[MacFan26]

That would be too bad if the display prices would go up from what the rumor was. They should go down! :D Oh well, I'll be up at 10 tomorrow to catch all the happenings :D

[nsb3000]

A huge difference. As a student, the pricing is a very big deal between getting a few extra apps or not.
–Chase

Right..I am student too. And the point is $1,000 is already *SO* much to spend on a display that I would just buy a non-apple brand CRT instead. Much better value...

[Trowaman]

Last year:
Safari 1.0
Panther (featuring exposé, iChat AV, a new finder, File Vault)
iSight
PowerMac G5

This Year:
Tiger (featuring a new Safari, Pipeline, Dashboard, and smart playlists everywhere)
New Displays at odd prices

WEAK!!!!
This needs the new iMacs or some small gadgets as well we're not even thinking of.

[jade]

Man, that will suck if the prices are the same. I would buy a 20" for $999, but not for $300 more. I just can't justify it. I just laid down $3000 for a G5, and I can't afford a lot more. If there are discounts with new systems and a display I'm going to be ticked off though, because my G5 is only 1 week old. In any case, we'll see what tomorrow brings. I still want a new display.

Samsung's 21" display is priced at $1199 and regularly discounted to $1099 or lower. The 20" is a little to expensive.

[biscool]

Last year:
Safari 1.0
Panther (featuring exposé, iChat AV, a new finder, File Vault)
iSight
PowerMac G5

This Year:
Tiger (featuring a new Safari, Pipeline, Dashboard, and smart playlists everywhere)
New Displays at odd prices

WEAK!!!!
This needs the new iMacs or some small gadgets as well we're not even thinking of.

Correction (as of rumors)

This Year:
Tiger
New Displays
Safari 2.0
Xcode 2.0

Not too shabby...it is a DEVELOPERS conference after all....

[cr2sh]

Ugh.. I've been waiting for display updates, this mockup is exactly what I've been wanting.. but damn, there is certainly a premium on fruit. :(

[Phillip]

if the 20" was $999 then theres not point of a 30" @ $2999. i could buy 3 20" with the price of 1 30"

[~Shard~]

why the hell did it take 18 months for a 20 inch display at $1299 to become.......a 20 inch display at $1299 with some extra ports???

WHY?

I don't know, it's not like Apple was busy with other projects like Tiger, iPod updates, iPod minis, G5 PowerMac updates, iBook updates, eMac updates, iMac updates, PowerBooks updates, Airport Express, G5 xServes, and iTMS Europe to name just a few... :rolleyes:

[sorryiwasdreami]

:( I'm trying to prepare myself for the non-existent imac G5 announcement later today.

It's tough to make yourself realize it ain't gonna happen when you've been waiting since the imac G5 speculation began spreading.

Cheers to all who will buy a new display; I know they will be hot! ...and Tiger is sure to be equally on fire.

Peace!
:)

[narco]

This is one of the few reasons why I hate rumors: when the actual product comes out at a higher price, everyone is pissed. Same thing with the iPod mini. Everyone is going to dwell on the fact that the new 20" is more expensive, rather than focusing on the fact that there are NEW displays! Grrrr.

// narco

[sworthy]

I absolutely cannot believe that apple will get rid of their 17" display, leaving $1300 as the lowest option. It makes absolutely no sense and they will sell far fewer displays. I feel that the 12" at $999 is a steal, but at $1300, is merely market value (w/ the apple tax). I'm still in the camp that wants a $500 widescreen 17", just like the imac and the powerbook, hell, use the exact same screen if you want just give me a sub thousand dollar option for crying out loud.

[iriejedi]

Steve would be insane to not have a sub $1000 display - unless they feature biogenic phase plasma warp technology and they will massage feet while transporting you food and drink when surfing the net (with Safari) - I say that there will be a cheaper then $1000 revised display!

Otherwise for that price Best Buy has some INCREDIBLE 19 inch models for half the price - two of those bad boys for the price of a 20 inch Apple model.. who cares if they do not have an apple logo!!

Well we'll seee in the AM....

night!

IJ


If that new pricing is right, it will suck. It'd be really nice if those $999-$3000 prices are right.

[LaMerVipere]

I absolutely cannot believe that apple will get rid of their 17" display, leaving $1300 as the lowest option. It makes absolutely no sense and they will sell far fewer displays. I feel that the 12" at $999 is a steal, but at $1300, is merely market value (w/ the apple tax). I'm still in the camp that wants a $500 widescreen 17", just like the imac and the powerbook, hell, use the exact same screen if you want just give me a sub thousand dollar option for crying out loud.

You said it.

[iriejedi]

Yes you could... good math - however it means three cords instead of one!

J/K - I'm totally not feeling the love from Stevie J - yet I still bet he will still pull a rabbit out at WWDC - the LCS and G5s was bait....



if the 20" was $999 then theres not point of a 30" @ $2999. i could buy 3 20" with the price of 1 30"

[iDave]

If you are going to spend more than $1,000 on a display, what difference does a few extra hundred make?
Um, 30%. Quite a bit.

[narco]

if the 20" was $999 then theres not point of a 30" @ $2999. i could buy 3 20" with the price of 1 30"

What are you talking about? People can buy 3 17" displays for $2000, but people still buy the 23" display. Your argument doesn't hold up.

// narco

[musicpyrite]

I can't sleep :(

I can't sleep. :D :cool:


That would be retarded if Apple didn't either keep the same prices and increase screen size, or keep the screen size the same, and lower the price. Either way, I'm not buyin one!

[iriejedi]

Actually if you consider the time value of money... the new display is cheaper. But if you figure in 18 months I'm sure CA has seen at least one sales tax increase - it may offset the devaluation of currency.... :eek:

oh well - I'm sure some HIGH PAID - or just HIGH marketing guy (or gal) at Apple knows the whole story - we just have to wait and speculate... :confused:

IJ

Pricing is a big no-no.....why the hell did it take 18 months for a 20 inch display at $1299 to become.......a 20 inch display at $1299 with some extra ports???

WHY?

[letterbox]

At $999 I would return my 17" for a 20" and pony up the extra $$$. For 1049 like it currently is...I might think about it, but there is a real difference there, and if prices go up on 20" and the 17" gets "dropped", then I atleast hope the price drop on the 17" will be significant (100ish?). I don't care that I just bought a 17", just that for displays that are already a bit on the overpriced end and if they become a generation behind, significant price drops would seem reasonable.

Something people aren't thinking about, or that I haven't seen speculated about is price drops all around on the current displays. I know I just talked about that, it's late and I can't construct cohesive thoughts. But, it would be nice to see prices drop for old hardware and not stay static while newer hardware is introduced at a higher price point.

I also wish I wasn't a newbie, I've been reading for almost a year, but just started posting.

On topic...

Go to sleep. I know I'm not...yet.

[nagromme]

Is it true that LCD component prices have not dropped as they predicted to over the past year?

Have other brands of large LCD gotten cheaper over the past year?

[dongmin]

Actually if you consider the time value of money... the new display is cheaper. But if you figure in 18 months I'm sure CA has seen at least one sales tax increase - it may offset the devaluation of currency.... :eek:

oh well - I'm sure some HIGH PAID - or just HIGH marketing guy (or gal) at Apple knows the whole story - we just have to wait and speculate... :confused:

IJah ha but you forgot the $500 you get off now on the 23" through the Brilliant Savings promo.

[Rocketfella]

Hmmm, the new rumored display pricing makes for a more difficult purchasing decision.

Someone posted a rumor that the new displays would be less reliable than the old. Can anyone substantiate that rumor or give more info?

If true, why would this be?

[newamiga]

I don't know about you but the Europe ITMS announcement was not the typical Stevenote in terms of energy. I think he will really hit it tomorrow. They have been so quiet about this one and then the Tiger posters at the hall. I just can't imagine a dead show. Steve will come through. Just wish I could be there this year instead of on a plane. May have to break the rules and see if my T-Mobile Sidekick can get reception at 35000 ft.

[thatwendigo]

As others have pointed out, everyone salivating over the idea of consumer gadgets at WWDC might want to calm down. The G5 was justs released to the professional and home user market as the powerful topend that it's supposed to be, and Apple has gone on record as stating that the PowerBook and iMac are a ways off from getting a G5 under the hood. While true that the iMac is getting a little long in the tooth, it doesn't necessarily mean that there will be anything at WWDC, because it would be logistically stupid to introduce one machine when you're trying to get its succesor out as fast as possible.

I won't say it's impossible that either will show up at the conference, but I find it extremely unlikely without the webcast being done as it was lasst year. The displays, operating system, and software that will likely be shown are of more interest to developers - both hardware and software - than to the general mac user. They need to see this stuff now so that they can work towards the official release of Tiger.

Remember, the G4 showed up first in a PowerMac in October of 1999, clocking at 350mhz and costing $1,599 at the low end. The iMac was a 350mhz G3 at the time. Two and a half years later, in January of 2002, the flat-panel iMac marked the arrival of the G4 in the consumer model, at 700mhz. At the same time, the PowerMac was 800mhz at the low end and cost $100 more than the mid-level iMac - $1,599.

It was a shorter, but still lengthy, wait for the PowerBook G4 - January of 2001, which meant a year and a half instead of two and a half. At the time the towers were G4s, the PowerBook were 400mhz G3s.

So far, the G5 hasn't gotten anywhere close to the wait for the G4.

[iDave]

ah ha but you forgot the $500 you get off now on the 23" through the Brilliant Savings promo.
Expired yesterday, didn't it?

[jade]

Hmmm, the new rumored display pricing makes for a more difficult purchasing decision.

Someone posted a rumor that the new displays would be less reliable than the old. Can anyone substantiate that rumor or give more info?

If true, why would this be?

well it is pretty hard to determine reliability when the product isn't announced yet. :D

[Nermal]

So that those of us outside the US don't have to manually work it all out, 10:00 Pacific = 17:00 GMT.

[rendezvouscp]

So that those of us outside the US don't have to manually work it all out, 10:00 Pacific = 17:00 GMT.

Or less than 12 hours from now :D. 11 hours, 30 minutes
–Chase

[QCassidy352]

Just because there is now a 20" display at $1300, and there may be a 20" display tomorrow at $1300, that does not mean nothing has changed. The current apple displays lag badly in LCD technology. The 20" has a contrast of 350:1, which, frankly, sucks. This update could also improve the viewing angle, brightness, resolution (unlikely) and refresh rate, as well as add ports.

All 20" LCDs are no more equal than all laptops with 1 Ghz processors are equal. Bottom line is that even if apple releases new 20" and 23" displays tomorrow at the same prices, they could be significantly better bargains than they are now. Because right now we are paying top dollar for second rate tech - top dollar for first rate tech would be a lot better.

We'll see soon enough.

[Porchland]

So basically if you're buying the new 23inch, you get the new design but without the 500 brilliant savings rebate?

That sucks

But it's NEWER!

OK, everyone, let's go ahead and get everything out:
* What, no, WiFi iPod?
* What, no G5 iMac?
* What, no pizza box?
* What, no G5 PowerMac?

[joeboy_45101]

I don't know about you but the Europe ITMS announcement was not the typical Stevenote in terms of energy. I think he will really hit it tomorrow. They have been so quiet about this one and then the Tiger posters at the hall. I just can't imagine a dead show. Steve will come through. Just wish I could be there this year instead of on a plane. May have to break the rules and see if my T-Mobile Sidekick can get reception at 35000 ft.

You're right, he did seem very tired. I hope it was just jet-lag or something, but I began to get really concerned when during the middle of the announcement he completely forgot what he was showing to the crowd. I hope nothing's wrong with him. :(

[QCassidy352]

another thing - just for the sake of comparison, the current apple 20" vs. a Sony 20":

Apple:
1680x1050 resolution
170 degree viewing angle
230 cd/m2 (brightness)
350:1 (contrast)
$1300

Sony:
1600x1200 (not widescreen)
170 degree viewing angle
250 cd/m2
500:1
$1100

The sony has better tech for less money. If the apple is going to cost more, let's at least hope that tomorrow's updates bring the tech up to par or better. Of course, better tech for $1000 would be great too. :)

[3.1416]

The G5 was justs released to the professional and home user market as the powerful topend that it's supposed to be, and Apple has gone on record as stating that the PowerBook and iMac are a ways off from getting a G5 under the hood.Actually they only said the Powerbook was a ways off. They made no such statement for the iMac, only that putting a G5 in it would be a challenge.The displays, operating system, and software that will likely be shown are of more interest to developers - both hardware and software - than to the general mac user.Last year there was Panther, G5 towers, and iChat AV, all of which are very interesting to regular users.So far, the G5 hasn't gotten anywhere close to the wait for the G4.True, but the G3 was a competitive processor when the iMac was still using it. Today, the G4 isn't, especially at the iMac's price points. The iMac needs a G5 (and a price cut) yesterday, and Apple would be nuts not to release it as soon as possible. There's no way they'd hold off on G5 iMacs until they can go into Powerbooks as well. Unfortunately it's looking increasingly like they *can't* get a G5 into the iMac today, which is disturbing. If IBM doesn't get better somewhat soon, Steve may be dusting off the x86 plan again.

[Nermal]

* What, no, WiFi iPod?
* What, no G5 iMac?
* What, no pizza box?
* What, no G5 PowerMac?

* What, no Cube?
* What, no DVR?
* What, no PDA?
* What, no gaming console?

;)

[moep]

Pricing is a big no-no.....why the hell did it take 18 months for a 20 inch display at $1299 to become.......a 20 inch display at $1299 with some extra ports???

WHY?

I highly agree. Granted, an Apple Display is a cool thing to have, but at those prices - I'm simply going to keep my old TFT (Sony 17" X-Series).

If those prices are true: no Apple Displays for me... at least not anytime soon. I'd rather spend my money elsewhere (on other gadgets ;))

let's wait and see.

[joeboy_45101]

If the new iMac G5 is going to be marketed as a pro-sumer machine, then wouldn't it make sense to introduce it at WWDC. I'm going with AppleInsider on this one, all the people that are saying that there is no way for Apple to intro a consumer device at a developer's conference are still stuck in the mindset of the iMac being a consumer product. I think that with the iMac upgrade tomorrow we will also see the iMac "redefined" as a product that can be useful as a high-end consumer machine and a low-end professional machine. The upgraded iMac will be a kind of bridge.

[Steven1621]

Hey, you never know. I'm still holding out hope for a new G5 iMac...

isn't a macworld coming up soon?

[glennsan]

I am in the market for a new G5, depending on whether there will be an iMac announced with one will determine if I get a tower or not. I admit to really liking the idea of new displays but I agree with some of the previous posters that if the price doesn't come down or some other insanely GREAT features are added I am not getting an Apple monitor. The Sony referenced above sounds like a winner to me. I own their tv's and really like them.

[Nuts2354]

I think steve needs to do something drastic with the displays and prices, would like to throw a new 20" aluminum G5 matching display with my new powerbook, say for about $899.

Also where is that 17" widescreen from the powerbook and iMac, come on that thing would sell like crazy, perfect size and for something like $599.

MY FIRST POST!!! NEWLY SWITCHED MAC USER IN JUNE 04'!!! :D

[DrGruv1]

Apple needs a sub $1000 and a Sub $600 monitor and maybe even a Sub $400...

-mike

[goglamosh]

geez, i hope apple updates the iMac line or introduces a replacement product. if they don't, my brother is going to kill me, because he has been waiting for months due to my insistence that there would be a refresh.

[slughead]

so do we have any news on what the displays will look like

Here is an artist's rendition.. I hope apple legal doesn't make me take it down

http://www.blargatron-systems.com/files/new-apple-screens.jpg

[musicpyrite]

Apple needs a sub $1000 and a Sub $600 monitor and maybe even a Sub $400...

-mike

yea, right, ill buy a sub 400$ display when I could buy a sub 500$ computer....

[letterbox]

the 23" display rebate is still being advertised. not that it matters much i don[t think. just tired and bored. peach cobbler then bed, i swear.

[joeboy_45101]

I think Steve needs to bitch slap Gates. I'd pay to see that! :D

[Soire]

Whaddya think? Displays are released tommorow, don't ship till august?

What has been the track record on new additions to the display line?

I got a 2.5 G5 on the way, and I don't want it to be lonely... :o

[rendezvouscp]

I think Steve needs to bitch slap Gates. I'd pay to see that! :D

Ok, I'm coming out. I know I'm under a NDA, but still... yes, that happens tomorrow! He will introduce Tiger, a few features, and then everyone will be asked to look under their seats for a mock head of Gates. Then everyone gets to bitch slap him, but Steve on stage. Ok, that's the big news people. Sorry to ruin it for you.
–Chase

[rendezvouscp]

Whaddya think? Displays are released tommorow, don't ship till august?

What has been the track record on new additions to the display line?

I got a 2.5 G5 on the way, and I don't want it to be lonely... :o

I think since after the first introduction, almost instant.
–Chase

[nexusfx]

Actually they only said the Powerbook was a ways off. They made no such statement for the iMac, only that putting a G5 in it would be a challenge.Last year there was Panther, G5 towers, and iChat AV, all of which are very interesting to regular users.True, but the G3 was a competitive processor when the iMac was still using it. Today, the G4 isn't, especially at the iMac's price points. The iMac needs a G5 (and a price cut) yesterday, and Apple would be nuts not to release it as soon as possible. There's no way they'd hold off on G5 iMacs until they can go into Powerbooks as well. Unfortunately it's looking increasingly like they *can't* get a G5 into the iMac today, which is disturbing. If IBM doesn't get better somewhat soon, Steve may be dusting off the x86 plan again.

Well your right about one thing, right now they *can't* get the G5's in Powerbooks or iMacs. There is a *real reason*, Apple hasn't been pushing IBM to manufacture the processors down to fit the smaller machines because for the last year they've been trying to scale the architecture to 90nm, so that it would be easier for IBM to fit the G5 technology in smaller machines, now that that has been taken care of, they can focus on scaling the G5's down, hell, they're already in an Xserve with 90nm tech, all they have to do is just go from there. It will take some time, but we'll all be happy when it happens, until we hear the rumor about the price point, then we'll be pissed off again:)

Oh yeah, about x86.......ahem........NEVER AGAIN! I just think Steve would be too stubborn to go back, and I *admire* him for it,

"SCREW x86!" IT'S SERVED IT'S PURPOSE, and thanks for the memories:)

[netytan]

Yo guys, anyone heard anything yet? Thats if its even started lol. Also, if macrumors is getting a feed. What the link etc. The excitment - my first release ;).

Later,

Mark

[Dahl]

Is it true that LCD component prices have not dropped as they predicted to over the past year?

That's something I read once not long ago.
Supplies have been in such high demand, there were no reason to lower the price.

[iDave]

isn't a macworld coming up soon?
Yes, in Boston, but Apple's not going to be there.

[DrGruv1]

yea, right, ill buy a sub 400$ display when I could buy a sub 500$ computer....

Maybe not for you (or me) but others with a price point that can't spend another grand after the computer for a monitor.

[DTphonehome]

This is one of the few reasons why I hate rumors: when the actual product comes out at a higher price, everyone is pissed. Same thing with the iPod mini. Everyone is going to dwell on the fact that the new 20" is more expensive, rather than focusing on the fact that there are NEW displays! Grrrr.

// narco

I think that the reason people would be upset if prices are not lowered is simply because in 18 months, nearly every other LCD display on the market has dropped dramatically in price. Since 18 months ago, LCD production has ramped up considerably, and new manufacturing techniques have allowed for far fewer factory defects, thus lowering the cost of production significantly. That savings should be passed on to the consumer.
I personally have been waiting for new displays so I can buy one, but if the prices quoted are accurate, I won't, I'll go for another brand instead, or wait for a G5 iMac. But, I'll wait until after the announcement to pronounce judgement. It may all be a false rumor.

--DT

[joeboy_45101]

If the new iMac G5 is going to be marketed as a pro-sumer machine, then wouldn't it make sense to introduce it at WWDC. I'm going with AppleInsider on this one, all the people that are saying that there is no way for Apple to intro a consumer device at a developer's conference are still stuck in the mindset of the iMac being a consumer product. I think that with the iMac upgrade tomorrow we will also see the iMac "redefined" as a product that can be useful as a high-end consumer machine and a low-end professional machine. The upgraded iMac will be a kind of bridge.

[macnews]

Just because there is now a 20" display at $1300, and there may be a 20" display tomorrow at $1300, that does not mean nothing has changed. The current apple displays lag badly in LCD technology. The 20" has a contrast of 350:1, which, frankly, sucks. This update could also improve the viewing angle, brightness, resolution (unlikely) and refresh rate, as well as add ports.

All 20" LCDs are no more equal than all laptops with 1 Ghz processors are equal. Bottom line is that even if apple releases new 20" and 23" displays tomorrow at the same prices, they could be significantly better bargains than they are now. Because right now we are paying top dollar for second rate tech - top dollar for first rate tech would be a lot better.

I know you posted a second post comparing a sony monitor but I really have to question your knowledge here. The viewing angle, contrast, add ports? Apple has one of the better viewing angles on the market. And ports? Apple has ports. It took many other companies over a year to put ports on their monitors. Many may have them now but Apple led the way IMHO. Now of course you can get ports and speakers too - but those speakers leave a lot to be desired.

I will agree Apple monitors are not TOP of the line but they are close, along with Sony. The one thing Apple was good at doing, better than many other LCD monitors according to Consumer Reports a year ago, was the amount of dead pixels out of the box. Quality is something you pay for and when it comes to dead pixels over the life of the monitor, I will take a lower contrast ratio.

[g4cubed]

If Apple keeps the prices the same, with no major improvements to warrant the price hold then Steve's been smokin' again. Could be the reason he forgot what he was saying at the past announcement. I know this is suppose to be just a developers conv., but with Apple not at Macworld I should hope to hear a little more than Tiger and monitors. But we'll see in a few hours. Let's hope for the best and wait to be dissappointed ;)

[xtekdiver]

I think if this report is true then it is further evidence that a new Mac is going to be released. If pro models have monitors at 20",23",30" AND there are not going to be new iMacs, then what will fill the space left behind? Could it be a new headless Mac that will sport a smaller but different display? Perhaps the current G4 iMacs will replace the eMacs and we will see a new "home" computer; by "home" I mean entertainment focused. Could this be our hanging display? :confused:

[DMann]

Last year:
Safari 1.0
Panther (featuring exposé, iChat AV, a new finder, File Vault)
iSight
PowerMac G5

This Year:
Tiger (featuring a new Safari, Pipeline, Dashboard, and smart playlists everywhere)
New Displays at odd prices

WEAK!!!!
This needs the new iMacs or some small gadgets as well we're not even thinking of.

Hopefully, this is not the reason for the lack of Quicktime event streaming.

[Trowaman]

All right, it is now the 28th where I am and there are 10 hours and 20 minutes to the big show. I'll be here on this website watching to see what happens. Good luck tomorrow, Apple. Please don't disapoint the many men and women who are reading these forums.

And to every one else in the states, get some sleep.

See ya guys in 10.

[Windowlicker]

as long as they drop the price of the 17" displays I'm happy. wanna get one.

[QCassidy352]

I know you posted a second post comparing a sony monitor but I really have to question your knowledge here. The viewing angle, contrast, add ports? Apple has one of the better viewing angles on the market. And ports? Apple has ports. It took many other companies over a year to put ports on their monitors. Many may have them now but Apple led the way IMHO. Now of course you can get ports and speakers too - but those speakers leave a lot to be desired.

I will agree Apple monitors are not TOP of the line but they are close, along with Sony. The one thing Apple was good at doing, better than many other LCD monitors according to Consumer Reports a year ago, was the amount of dead pixels out of the box. Quality is something you pay for and when it comes to dead pixels over the life of the monitor, I will take a lower contrast ratio.

Just saying "they have 'ports'" is pretty pointless. Are they ports that you need? Firewire ports would be a very nice upgrade, IMO.

Yes, apple's viewing angle is good - but the contrast ratio and brightness are not. The 20" even has higher brightness than the other two (they have 200 cd/m2).

You're right, Apple did lead the way regarding displays - in a lot of ways, ports and otherwise. At the time of its release, the current line up was top-notch. But since then, other companies have been catching up to, and even surpassing, apple's tech specs. And yet apple still charges top dollar as if they had a superior product.

Another quick comparison: the formac 2010. A 20" monitor with just as good a viewing angle, 250 brightness, and a stellar 600:1 contrast ratio. AND, formac guarantees no more than 2 dead pixels - or you get a new one. I don't believe apple's policy is that generous (it wasn't even close about a year ago, but they may have gotten on the ball.) All for the same $1300 apple charges.

The bottom line is that there are quite a few options out there with specs that are the same or better for equal or less money. I've given you two very quick examples, and there are more out there. Apple is combining good-but-not-great specs with top end pricing. I'm not sure how or why you're defending that.

Anyway, hopefully it'll all be better in the morning. :)

[jbob]

Do try to keep up!

7pm Monday here in NZ

Bring on the XStation4

[ryanw]

Yo guys, anyone heard anything yet? Thats if its even started lol. Also, if macrumors is getting a feed. What the link etc. The excitment - my first release ;).

Later,

Mark

Hopefully there's a keynote to watch live... I really hope the last 6 months of waiting for the WWDC Keynote won't end with just more rumors to read.

[weezer160]

got i hope this isn't true. that would totally suck! 1300+ (tax) for the baseline model! don't you think that the presence of the newer 30" should lower the price of the displays that have been there for a long while? the only possible reason why someone would want to maintain the prices of the baseline and the one above would be major improvements and/or modificatios to it's appearance, otherwise, keeping the prices the same will deter people like me from buying even the base model. if the prices are the same, then their new appearance better be excellent at least! :o

[sambo.]

yuh, apple is charging top dollar for their displays. now, apple displays are nice, no argument here on that. but i don't believe they are that much nicer than comparable offerings from other manufacturers to warrant the premium pricing.
with the abandoning of ADC in favour of the universal DVI, there is no reason for buying an apple display, other than for the logo on it in preference to any other manuf's displays, this should (in theory) make apple lower the prices of their screens.
if some of the rumours are correct, why on earth would i pay three times the price of a 20" for a 30"? yuh, a 30" screen would be nice, very nice and i want one. but with that pricing structure i'd either buy two 20" screens or a 24" from samsung/hitachi/sony........ you get the drift, and put the extra cash into something else (an iPod/ new Nikon D2H et al).
apple will be doing themselves another disservice if they don't have a sub $1000- display option in the line-up. the offerings from other screen manuf's are just too good to warrant the extra coupla grand. :eek:

[klaus]

Hopefully there's a keynote to watch live... I really hope the last 6 months of waiting for the WWDC Keynote won't end with just more rumors to read.

As mentioned a couple of times before, no LIVE broadcast. Delayed one, after the keynote has finished is more likely

[ts1973]

I was thinking along a strange line just now : it seems as if Apple always startd the prices on a high level for their display products. For example : when the 17" came out, it was also something like $1000. Right now, my guess is they need the high price point to pay for the costs of shipping, handling, etc. I think Apple just isn't able to make a profit on a $500-$600 display.

[broken_keyboard]

One of the best things about being a Mac user is frequent OS updates and big keynotes. They have already said OS updates will be less frequent and now no keynote broadcast. *pout*

[aswitcher]

One of the best things about being a Mac user is frequent OS updates and big keynotes. They have already said OS updates will be less frequent and now no keynote broadcast. *pout*

So when I log on 6am tomorrow my time (3 hours after the broadcast) whose going to have the best and mostd detailed review? Advice?

[MacFan26]

One of the best things about being a Mac user is frequent OS updates and big keynotes. They have already said OS updates will be less frequent and now no keynote broadcast. *pout*

:( Keynotes have been one of the things I look forward to most! Who else brings so much excitement to a product release? Oh well, I think it doesn't really make a difference, especially if they still stream them afterwards :D

[broken_keyboard]

So when I log on 6am tomorrow my time (3 hours after the broadcast) whose going to have the best and mostd detailed review? Advice?

Try going to the Apple events website first and they might have a delayed stream you can watch
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/whatson/appleevents/

It would be more fun watching than just reading a summary. I don't know who would have the best summary.

[broken_keyboard]

:( Keynotes have been one of the things I look forward to most! Who else brings so much excitement to a product release? Oh well, I think it doesn't really make a difference, especially if they still stream them afterwards :D

I would still prefer live. Maybe they think the live broadcast is cutting in to their ticket sales, but I would guess that it just conjecture - the ticket prices would be the main thing. I am single with a lot of disposable income and a huge Mac fan, and a developer, but still it was too pricey to justify.

[afields]

I can't sleep! :(

[klaus]

I am single with a lot of disposable income and a huge Mac fan, and a developer, but still it was too pricey to justify.

me tooo :rolleyes:, but I live in belgium, so it's a bit of a long trip to go to wwdc.. and i develop on windows frameworks :o (out of pure necessity)

[MacFan26]

I would still prefer live. Maybe they think the live broadcast is cutting in to their ticket sales, but I would guess that it just conjecture - the ticket prices would be the main thing. I am single with a lot of disposable income and a huge Mac fan, and a developer, but still it was too pricey to justify.

Apple also used to boast about how many users were watching online. I remember Steve welcoming all those who were watching on the web. It seems like the place is always packed at a keynote, I can't imagine they'd stop showing it live because of ticket sales, but, well, who knows. :rolleyes:

[Zaty]

I'm so excited, especially about Tiger, I hope it's going to be a kick-ass new OS X version and not just a lame update to Panther. What about Safari 2.0? Will it be part of Tiger only or will it be released as a stand alone version anytime soon? Any ideas?

[MacFan26]

I'm so excited, especially about Tiger, I hope it's going to be a kick-ass new OS X version and not just a lame update to Panther. What about Safari 2.0? Will it be part of Tiger only or will it be released as a stand alone version anytime soon? Any ideas?

me too :D. I think Safari 2.0 would be a free download. Since it always has been, I don't think they would only include it with Tiger. Unless they do what they did with iChat, and make it cost something, I really hope not though. Maybe it will be released tomorrow :D

[thatwendigo]

Actually they only said the Powerbook was a ways off. They made no such statement for the iMac, only that putting a G5 in it would be a challenge.

Macworld reports: (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/06/09/apple/index.php?redirect=1086765595000)
While Boger didn't give a timeframe for an iMac G5, he did say the company faced similar challenges getting a G5 to work with their consumer desktop.

"It's the same story -- the challenges are obvious when you look at the G5 and the size of the heatsinks and the enclosure; that would be a heck of a challenge as well."

I reiterate: "It's the same story."

That being said, the only way I can see a quiet G5 iMac showing up is if it's either liquid cooled and vastly more expensive than the current model, or if it's clocked down ridiculously low. Either way, it's not what people here are looking for, because it's not some amazing, cheap, single processor dream machine that rubs your back and cooks your dinner while making sure the dog is put out - while also paying for itself b doing tricks outside your house with that wireless display everyone yammers about, like some kind of street performer.

The G5 is competitive at dual-processor levels, and a single that isn't higher clocked is going to have the same issues that people who don't understand how system design can affect performance have always whined about. It'll be "too slow" compared to some nebulous $400 machine that, when examined, turns out to have all kinds of crippling factors about it.

Last year there was Panther, G5 towers, and iChat AV, all of which are very interesting to regular users.

Take a look at Apple's history of releasing products. Here's a hint: It's only last year that they did a huge, sweeping show at WWDC that would interest consumers.

True, but the G3 was a competitive processor when the iMac was still using it. Today, the G4 isn't, especially at the iMac's price points.

The G4 is still competitive... just not as a single processor. People love to trot this statement out, but have never, ever managed to show me a production machine that does what Apple's design do at the same price. Once you include all the software and usability of the mac, things get even uglier on the PC, since that tends to weigh in around an extra $250-300.

I've been playing this game a long time and I haven't lost yet.

The iMac needs a G5 (and a price cut) yesterday, and Apple would be nuts not to release it as soon as possible. There's no way they'd hold off on G5 iMacs until they can go into Powerbooks as well. Unfortunately it's looking increasingly like they *can't* get a G5 into the iMac today, which is disturbing.

It's about as disturbing as realizing that no major manufacturers are offering something as tiny and quiet as the iMac with a major desktop processor and all the goodies that come with the G5. Find something as small as the iMac, as elegant as the iMac, with the ease of use and security of OS X and iLife, the quietness, the range of external expansion options, and a nice - non-generic - LCD display.

Now show me how it can be done under the Apple price point by more than the typical PowerPC tax. Hint: It doesn't exist.

If IBM doesn't get better somewhat soon, Steve may be dusting off the x86 plan again.

Not this tired old saw again...

So, if Apple goes x86, then what happens to all the programmers who have to shift their code over to the new APIs? What happens to legacy users who don't have x86 hardware? It would be hard enough for Apple to maintain a branching 32 and 64 bit separation on their OS, but to have the two major platforms instead? Suicide, plain and simple.

This says nothing of piracy, lack of security, driver creep, bloat, support nightmares, lack of hardware revenue (which means severe lack of profit for Apple) and other concerns.

The day that they release Mac OS on x86 hardware is the day Apple truly begins to do what the media has forever claimed they would - die.

[Zaty]

Apple also used to boast about how many users were watching online. I remember Steve welcoming all those who were watching on the web. It seems like the place is always packed at a keynote, I can't imagine they'd stop showing it live because of ticket sales, but, well, who knows. :rolleyes:

I guess there is still a small chance that there will be a life broadcast. The earlier Apple annouces the live stream the more people will watch which could lead to bandwith constraints.

EDIT: I just read Apple confirmed there would be no broadcast, oh dear

[broken_keyboard]

I'm so excited, especially about Tiger, I hope it's going to be a kick-ass new OS X version and not just a lame update to Panther. What about Safari 2.0? Will it be part of Tiger only or will it be released as a stand alone version anytime soon? Any ideas?

Good question about Safari. Isn't is the case that the current version of Safari doesn't run on 10.2 Jaguar? So maybe people who don't upgrade to Tiger won't get Safari 2

[Zaty]

Good question about Safari. Isn't is the case that the current version of Safari doesn't run on 10.2 Jaguar? So maybe people who don't upgrade to Tiger won't get Safari 2

That's excatly why I asked that question. OTH, if Safari was ready I don't think they would wait until the release of Tiger. They could still include Safari 2.1 with Tiger.

[macnews]

Another quick comparison: the formac 2010. A 20" monitor with just as good a viewing angle, 250 brightness, and a stellar 600:1 contrast ratio. AND, formac guarantees no more than 2 dead pixels - or you get a new one. I don't believe apple's policy is that generous (it wasn't even close about a year ago, but they may have gotten on the ball.) All for the same $1300 apple charges.

The bottom line is that there are quite a few options out there with specs that are the same or better for equal or less money. I've given you two very quick examples, and there are more out there. Apple is combining good-but-not-great specs with top end pricing. I'm not sure how or why you're defending that.

Anyway, hopefully it'll all be better in the morning. :)

Well we both look at it from different angles I guess. I disagree with you on some points. I spend a lot of time looking at other companies and products they offer. Formac has been hit and miss for me so even though they now have that 2 pixel promise, still not as reliable. And please don't get me wrong, Formac is not a bad company. There are some other companies out there making LCD that are not as great. Some that are (Sony has been good IMO).

Ahh, its getting late. I am not defending the price level staying the same, for what it is worth. I agree, the prices can, and should drop. Like you, I hope if will all be better in the morning.

[Skiniftz]

Last year:
Safari 1.0
Panther (featuring exposé, iChat AV, a new finder, File Vault)
iSight
PowerMac G5

Don't forget Active Directory integration that... ACTUALLY WORKED!!!111 :eek:

[Skiniftz]

Apple also used to boast about how many users were watching online. I remember Steve welcoming all those who were watching on the web. It seems like the place is always packed at a keynote, I can't imagine they'd stop showing it live because of ticket sales, but, well, who knows. :rolleyes:
Probably wants to cut down on the number of people he has to say "actually I was bull****ting you about Dual 3GHz" to simultaneously. :rolleyes:

[Skiniftz]

I'm so excited, especially about Tiger, I hope it's going to be a kick-ass new OS X version and not just a lame update to Panther. What about Safari 2.0? Will it be part of Tiger only or will it be released as a stand alone version anytime soon? Any ideas?
Based on their past decisions, I'd expect Safari 2.0 to be Tiger only.

[Skiniftz]

Just had a really silly thought - having looked at the "Redmond, we have a problem" images for Tiger etc. and thought - wouldn't it be really bizarre if Jobs announced Tiger would run on PC hardware, or would run Windows apps.

Like I said - silly.

[Icekey]

I just came back from the Ginza Store in Tokyo, and they had a white curtin covering half the floor on the ground floor. The people at the store obviously won't tell me!!! There has to be something big!

http://www.icekey.net/curtin.jpg

[bidge]

Just had a really silly thought - having looked at the "Redmond, we have a problem" images for Tiger etc. and thought - wouldn't it be really bizarre if Jobs announced Tiger would run on PC hardware, or would run Windows apps.

Like I said - silly.

That's what a lot of people have already said, and if you look up this same page, there's a guy rebutting all that stuff. I thought the same, it's already been discussed in these and a few other threads thoguh.

[MacFan26]

Probably wants to cut down on the number of people he has to say "actually I was bull****ting you about Dual 3GHz" to simultaneously. :rolleyes:

haha, good point. :)

[BakedBeans]

I just came back from the Ginza Store in Tokyo, and they had a white curtin covering half the floor on the ground floor. The people at the store obviously won't tell me!!! There has to be something big!

http://www.icekey.net/curtin.jpg


um..... good news??? i hope.....

please be something big.... if anyone lives near a store ge your ass down there and check for white sheets

[MacFan25863]

um..... good news??? i hope.....

please be something big.... if anyone lives near a store ge your ass down there and check for white sheets

Well, I would, but I have the little problem of it being 2 AM. :D

[klaus]

Keynote is at 10 am right? and that's gmt -8, so
that makes it 9 hours time difference from here (belgium gmt +1),

7 pm tonight, keynote starts, juij
it's 11 am for the moment, just another 8 hours!

must get some work done now :)

[klaus]

Well, I would, but I have the little problem of it being 2 AM. :D

that's no problem, put on some clothes, hop on ur bike and go look :)

[MacFan26]

please be something big.... if anyone lives near a store ge your ass down there and check for white sheets

If it wasn't 2 AM I would :(. I wonder if that would mean hardware announcement. Would they have to put up something like that for a OS preview?

edit: you beat me to the 2 AM comment :D

[MacFan25863]

that's no problem, put on some clothes, hop on ur bike and go look :)

I'll be sure to bring my spy gear so I can cut a hole in the glass that makes the roof of the mall the store is in, then bungy down, doing all sorts of cool 007 moves as I evade mall security to check out the store :cool:

[Jedda]

Okay, IceKey's post is getting me kinda excited.

They wont be covering Tiger signs, because the release for that will be october at the soonest.

I doubt they will be covering displays. Who cares?

I think there is something bigger. Something that not even thinksecret has caught up on.

[klaus]

I'll be sure to bring my spy gear so I can cut a hole in the glass that makes the roof of the mall the store is in, then bungy down, doing all sorts of cool 007 moves as I evade mall security to check out the store :cool:
good attitude!
take a new display for me while you are at it :p

and do it mr bean - style, skateboard, yellow gloves, funny face

[MacFan25863]

good attitude!
take a new display for me while you are at it :p

and do it mr bean - style, skateboard, yellow gloves, funny face


You want frys with that?


:D

[aswitcher]

I doubt they will be covering displays. Who cares?

I think there is something bigger. Something that not even thinksecret has caught up on.

Well displays are big and would require some setting up, so I think they might be setting it all up prior to leaving for the night and then they can open the curtains as soon as they open - or even earlier.

Lets hope there are a few suprises

[broken_keyboard]

I just came back from the Ginza Store in Tokyo, and they had a white curtin covering half the floor on the ground floor. The people at the store obviously won't tell me!!! There has to be something big!


I think that guy in the blue jacket wants a Powerbook...
:-)

[MacFan25863]

It looks big.


Digital Media Center?
TV?
Michael Eisner's Ego?

[klaus]

maybe the male employees are having fun with the female empl....

oh no, definitely new hardware!

[Jedda]

Michael Eisner's Ego?


Haha. Yeah. I have a feeling steve mashed that a few months ago.

[MacFan25863]

Haha. Yeah. I have a feeling steve mashed that a few months ago.


Well, Eisner tried to get back at him by dealing with the Devil (aka MS).


I won't be surprised if he comes crying back to Steve in a few months asking for quality entertainment again, however.

[the silver fox]

if the 20" was $999 then theres not point of a 30" @ $2999. i could buy 3 20" with the price of 1 30"

For those of us who work in film, you need a 30" as it supports a full 2K film plate on one screen. It is a pain to have to keep resizing stuff to fit on the current 23" panels in shake and after effects. It is aimed at the developers (who also need bags of screen space - although they dont have the resize issue as they can just go to another screen) and the film/tv industry. I will personally be bringing my card out of my wallet at around 7pm local time tonight.

[MacQuest]

I think Steve needs to bitch slap Gates. I'd pay to see that! :D

Here, here!!! :D

[BakedBeans]

oh yes... appols, forgot it was 2am there,

im guessing new imacs,,, in your stores now.. heheheheh

[MacsRgr8]

Keynote is at 10 am right? and that's gmt -8, so
that makes it 9 hours time difference from here (belgium gmt +1),

7 pm tonight, keynote starts, juij
it's 11 am for the moment, just another 8 hours!

must get some work done now :)

Yep.

So:

6 pm in the UK & Ireland & Portugal
7 pm CET

7h 25m left...

[Skiniftz]

I just came back from the Ginza Store in Tokyo, and they had a white curtin covering half the floor on the ground floor. The people at the store obviously won't tell me!!! There has to be something big!

Yeah - they have the painters in.

Seriously though - this could be evidence of a "available TODAY" comment by Steve about a new product?

I know ThinkSecret says no new iMacs, but personally I am expecting to see them.

I don't really care either way as the iMac is not something I'd consider anyway. I'm a PowerMac guy.

[BWhaler]

Screened in windows and floor displays?

Something huge must be coming. It's been a quiet year, and Steve did say in January that they had a lot of great products in the pipeline, so maybe this the flood gates opening.

Of course, I am trying to be cautious about my optimism, but it's getting hard.

Less than 8 hours to go...

[Skiniftz]

I bet Apple senior management all sit in a big room watching these discussions on a huge display laughing their arses off.

[klaus]

... on a huge display laughing their arses off.
as in a 30" display? ;)

[Machead III]

Well it's probably likely, I mean Steve would wan to check out what we think so as to get an idea how the crowd at the Keynote might respond.

That's right Steve... I can see you, I know your watching o.O

Anyway, it doesn't really matter what it is, I mean even a hardened Communist like me is reduced to a consumeristic junkie hopped up on materialistic heroine by Apples foshiz, be it a 1" screen for $500000; if its got that tastey logo, I love it.

Really though, i couldn't care less about screens, but I hope for designers sakes they are big and fairly priced. What I am looking for is new free software (Safari is infinitely better than IE, but still buggy as hell), some mind bendingly cool features in Tiger and *prays* something cool for under £150, like a device or something, I don't care what, just something I can afford :D

[BakedBeans]

Yeah - they have the painters in.

Seriously though - this could be evidence of a "available TODAY" comment by Steve about a new product?

I know ThinkSecret says no new iMacs, but personally I am expecting to see them.

I don't really care either way as the iMac is not something I'd consider anyway. I'm a PowerMac guy.


painters in :eek: :eek: :eek:

[reyesmac]

Apple would have to make these displays with some great new technology that makes them 10 times better than other displays which are cheaper for me to think about getting one at their current prices.
If Apple can take 2 year old technology and reduce the price on it and call it an iMac, they can do the same with a display. Especially when the prices they are paying for them are dropping all the time. Time to pass on the savings you knuckle-heads. Or would you rather see other companies monitors always attached to your computers? I still think they could lower the prices using some rebate, but even if they did, it would only be on the larger ones, they never give us a break with the lower priced units.

[oingoboingo]

The G4 is still competitive... just not as a single processor. People love to trot this statement out, but have never, ever managed to show me a production machine that does what Apple's design do at the same price. Once you include all the software and usability of the mac, things get even uglier on the PC, since that tends to weigh in around an extra $250-300.

I've been playing this game a long time and I haven't lost yet.


Thatwendigo, I agree with you that no other major manufacturer manages to get all the ticks in the boxes like Apple does...compact size, good ergonomics and design, reasonable performance, good software bundle and of course the sheer usability of the whole bundle. I agree so much so that I put my money where my mouth was, and have bought a G5 and 2 PowerBooks in the past 12 months. But the awful truth is that I don't think these things are actually important in the grand scheme of things. A sub 2% market share for Apple is testament to that. While you may be technically correct, in a market-wide sense, you're wrong, and I think in a way we're all 'wrong' here. If the benefits that Apple espoused were actually important, then they would have a much higher market share. The numbers speak for themselves...98% of computer users don't care enough about the things you mention to buy an Apple...or at least don't care enough to buy an Apple at a price that Apple can afford to provide it to them at.

A shame, but the truth IMHO.

[Machead III]

Not really, I mean how many people do you know that have switched to a PC?! I don't know anyone, and I know many PC users that would switch if only Macs wren't so expensive.

Price is the key here, Apple can only rape our wallets so much before we start to have enough, and while they do how do they expect people to join the ranks?

I would NEVER use a PC unless I was forced too, every aspect of them is horrid and sloppy, and Macs are creative powerfull and in all user aspects PERFECT. But my bank account isn't as limitless as Steves.

[billyboy]

Thatwendigo, I agree with you that no other major manufacturer manages to get all the ticks in the boxes like Apple does...compact size, good ergonomics and design, reasonable performance, good software bundle and of course the sheer usability of the whole bundle. I agree so much so that I put my money where my mouth was, and have bought a G5 and 2 PowerBooks in the past 12 months. But the awful truth is that I don't think these things are actually important in the grand scheme of things. A sub 2% market share for Apple is testament to that. While you may be technically correct, in a market-wide sense, you're wrong, and I think in a way we're all 'wrong' here. If the benefits that Apple espoused were actually important, then they would have a much higher market share. The numbers speak for themselves...98% of computer users don't care enough about the things you mention to buy an Apple...or at least don't care enough to buy an Apple at a price that Apple can afford to provide it to them at.

A shame, but the truth IMHO.

It is all a matter of timing. Right now, maybe 98% are plain wrong and we are right, and 98% are just plain victims of better marketing. Never forget, a lot of spam got sold, but eventually the GI marketing spin had its day and now we all pay more to eat steak!

[johnnowak]

A lot of Windows users are just ignorant to the benefits of a Mac.

Here in Smart Country, USA... alright, its Greenwich Village.. 80% of the laptops you see people using in coffee shops and in college are Macs.

[Machead III]

A lot of Windows users are just ignorant to the benefits of a Mac.

Here in Smart Country, USA... alright, its Greenwich Village.. 80% of the laptops you see people using in coffee shops and in college are Macs.

New York is the best place in the world... just thought I'd mention that *runs*

[reyesmac]

People are always talking about Microsoft having 90+% marketshare. Can you please tell me where most of that 90% is at and how it is used? I think we need to be more realistic about marketshare. If most of that 90% is win 95-98 and being used in a business or a home that does not upgrade or buy new software then who cares how much marketshare they have? Apple needs to tell us the real numbers on marketshare because I think Apple must be doing pretty well to still have such an effect on the rest of the industry. Apples marketshare may be low, but I do think that their computers are used much more than some PC in a server closet. Also, people buy many more PC's than macs but they also throw away more PC's than Macs. Does anyone count this in their figures? Apple can never have more marketshare than microsoft, but it can compete with the marketshare of companies that make PC's....someday, if they start selling business computers.

[tny]

As of right now, the Apple Store is listing 17" Studio Displays as next day delivery. So I'm skeptical that the 17" display is going away immediately.

[Savage Henry]

During the closing 30 minutes of trading on Friday, an additional 500,000 shares were purchased - a quarter of them in the closing minutes, pushing the price up a staggering 20¢ !!

Perhaps those Nasdeq Nerds know something that we don't.:confused:

Or perhaps, nice shiney silver screens are going to save Apple and all who sail in her !!?? :rolleyes:

Rest assured, the company is saved!!!

[JFreak]

Apple can never have more marketshare than microsoft.

it all depends on the market segmentation - in my household apple has 100% market share, and within my friends in music & video industry the very same figure applies. also, within my tech friends both companies have 0% market share since all servers run linux.

it is just the businesses that keep on supporting microsoft no matter how insecure the system would be. there was once a saying that "nobody gets fired for buying an ibm", and nowadays they tend to think about microsoft the same way. it is just a bad habit that is as difficult to break as smoking.

thank god for apple ipods, they have shown young people that there actually is an alternative. here in finland many have considered buying an apple within the last two years just because the wow-factor of ipods. (not to mention that ipods are very high priced in here, so the apple brand gets instant cool factor because not everyone can afford one.)

[oingoboingo]

Not really, I mean how many people do you know that have switched to a PC?! I don't know anyone, and I know many PC users that would switch if only Macs wren't so expensive.

I actually know quite a few ex-university biologists (who are now in the biotech sector) who used Macs while at university (because they were supplied by the department), but ditched them as soon as they possibly could when starting their own company. I also have friends in graphic design who started out on Macs, but moved across to PCs later on in their careers, and are quite happy in Wintel land. Switching does flow both ways. In fact, now that I think about it, I know more people who have gone from Mac to PC, rather than the other way around. Maybe it's something that happens to frustrated university scientists when they get into the private sector.

Price is the key here, Apple can only rape our wallets so much before we start to have enough, and while they do how do they expect people to join the ranks?

I would NEVER use a PC unless I was forced too, every aspect of them is horrid and sloppy, and Macs are creative powerfull and in all user aspects PERFECT. But my bank account isn't as limitless as Steves.

I agree. If Apples were cheaper, then we would see a lot more people switching. But they aren't, and I can't really see Apple getting into the budget arena. They seem quite content to stay at the premium end of the market, making nice margins on nice hardware. The marketshare tells the story. Approximately 98% of the market (insert your favourite marketshare estimate...they're all between 90% and 99% somewhere) says "Thanks, but not at that price".

[CholEoptera36]

The marketshare is important there's no doubt about it. It has a lot of sides so I wish I knew more about it. But I do know that more people do have PC's then Macs, and even as fast as they burn em there are more people including those that trashed their old ones that are hooking up with new ones everyday. Studdies done by TechTV (not sure how reliable) show that most new computer buyers buy PC's. Perhaps it has something to do with avalability, like seeing them every time they go into Best Buy for instance. I dunno for sure, but it does seem evident that there are more people getting PC's then Macs, even if they don't last as long. And I agree the MS habbit is a tough one for businesses to break. Also Apple only reaches out to certain types of businesses, a lot of which are in graphic design fields. That doesn't necessarily win over a lot of long time MS business owners who want those products.

On a personal oppinion which can't be varified lol:
I think there are a few main factors in buyers market on computers, and it's not much different then many other markets.
-Popularity. As stupid as this may sound, there are lots of people who buy products because of the name and popularity. This is a good reliable source of where MS holds is shares. Also how MS gets a lot of people comming back, as long as they stay popular that is.
-Cost. No matter how hard you try to argue an Apple is better all round then a PC, people will always be price concous. Even if it means sacrifice in the long run. Doesn't mean you're getting a better deal with MS, or Apple for that matter. I've had a 600$ PC run for over three years with no problems (no joke). So cost is a big issue, no matter if it's a car, house, or computer. Especially computers cause they're not as much of a need to live off of to some people, so they naturally want what's cheaper. Especially if they feel secure that it will deliver the performance they need. And what most people need isn't always necessarily a professional solution...
-Performance. The battles will always rage on who has a better computer, but most people are influenced by TV, schools, work, and other places that PC's work just fine. And in most cases they do. Most people only use Instant messengers, browsers, multimedia playback devices and email clients. On the whole PC's really don't have any 'problems' with that. So as far as home computers go, there's not a big deal with major probs in that catagory so buyers remain happy.

I think these are some good reasons why Microsoft keeps their shares like they do. If Apple gets to the point where their computers sell for less, then people are more willing to listen to how well they perform. And the more popular they become (especially like among youth, like the iPod example) the more buyers will follow. The tides can change for us, but it just takes a lot sometimes to change something so big. It's true that Apple is less then 10%, some sources say 5-7%. But hey things can change... Just depends on how Apple takes MS to the challenge.

Anyway, my two cents worth lol :cool:

[oingoboingo]

It is all a matter of timing. Right now, maybe 98% are plain wrong and we are right, and 98% are just plain victims of better marketing. Never forget, a lot of spam got sold, but eventually the GI marketing spin had its day and now we all pay more to eat steak!

Perhaps. Microsoft FUD, lack of user knowledge and ingrained myths about Macs from 10 years ago are still widespread. But what if a big chunk of those 98% know the real story with modern Macs, but they just don't see enough benefit in a Mac to switch? My girlfriend uses PCs all day at work (she's in finance, so it's Excel and a bunch of custom in-house apps on Windows 2000), but at home we only have my G5 and my PowerBook. She uses the Macs without a problem, and likes Mac OS X, but her response is "yeah the Mac is nice, but I get my work done just as well on my Windows 2000 machine at the office. I can take the Mac or leave it...it doesn't matter to me". The point is that Windows is 'good enough' for plenty of people. They aren't going to switch, even Apple slashed the prices of their entire lineup to backyard whitebox PC vendor prices tomorrow.

[CholEoptera36]

The point is that Windows is 'good enough' for plenty of people.

This is a good point, when you put it in that perspective it's still hard for Mac to sell over PC even if the slashed the prices. It would be 'easier' no doubt, but wouldn't necessarily win the masses over. And I have to agree with your gf, PC's have always worked just fine for me too. Macs are like, a lexus to me compared to a Honda as the PC. If given the option between the two, the lexus is smarter, smoother, and much more expensive. But the Honda gets me where I gotta go and is thousands less. (I hate using those car analogies but it just seemed right this time).

[SiliconAddict]

Wooo hooo Apple price gouging their customers yet again! Think different! Think expensive!

[mactarkus]

Here's another person (im)patiently waiting since Macworld for a Rev 2 G5. It finally came but without the much needed, matching Cinema Display. I held off yet again, because if I was going to spend $5K, it had to be perfect. As for that marketshare discussion, it's too bad there's no way to track computers in use regardless of age. I have 100+ Macs in my house -- that might tilt the numbers in our direction ;)

[oingoboingo]

People are always talking about Microsoft having 90+% marketshare. Can you please tell me where most of that 90% is at and how it is used? I think we need to be more realistic about marketshare. If most of that 90% is win 95-98 and being used in a business or a home that does not upgrade or buy new software then who cares how much marketshare they have? Apple needs to tell us the real numbers on marketshare because I think Apple must be doing pretty well to still have such an effect on the rest of the industry.

This is a controversial one, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Google's May Zeitgeist (http://www.google.com.au/press/zeitgeist.html) shows that 50% of browsers which accessed their site announced themselves as running on Windows XP. The next highest number was Windows 98 at 20%, then Windows 2000 at 17%. MacOS and Windows NT were even at 3% each, then Windows 95 and Linux at 1% each. 'Other' accounted for 5%. So taking Google's figures at face value, the 'modern' Windows variants (ie: based on the NT core) account for a total of 70% of all operating systems accessing Google's site.

Apples marketshare may be low, but I do think that their computers are used much more than some PC in a server closet. Also, people buy many more PC's than macs but they also throw away more PC's than Macs. Does anyone count this in their figures? Apple can never have more marketshare than microsoft, but it can compete with the marketshare of companies that make PC's....someday, if they start selling business computers.

Everything that I've personally seen, and certainly read about over the past 5 years or so would suggest that the 'server closet' migration is most definitely towards x86 systems, particularly those running Linux. Just because it has an Intel or AMD chip in it doesn't mean it's a wheezy little whitebox. 4-way x86 servers are common. 8, 16 and even 32 way x86-based servers are all available. Apple does not currently sell anything larger than 2-way SMP, and has no 'blade' product at all (1U is not the same as a blade cabinet). Apple may be making some inroads into the server room, but it's still very much dominated by the traditional big-iron Unix players (IBM, Sun, HP) and increasingly Windows/Linux on x86. At a guess, I would say Apple's server room penetration was even lower than its desktop share.

[Windowlicker]

there is no way for apple to keep the same prices.. it would suck so much major ass. :P

[Sly]

Is there any good reason for Apple not having a live stream of this event? :confused:

[Skiniftz]

Is there any good reason for Apple not having a live stream of this event? :confused:
Would you want to stand up in front of the Internet and admit you were bul****ting about Dual 3GHz?

[Mr. Anderson]

Instead, based on sources, it appears that the revised 20" and 23" displays will keep their current prices, and the 30" will be introduced at above $3000.

That's just not right - and I hope its wrong.....

Apple has always charged a premium, but there are limits - I'm thinking if they continue with the current pricing they're really going to be testing those limits.

D

[silvergunuk]

Thanx Icekey for the post, you got me so excited that I think I just shat my pants!

[bathysphere]

Would you want to stand up in front of the Internet and admit you were bul****ting about Dual 3GHz?
hahahahaha
and yeah, the projected display pricing is lame. i was considering buying another 20 inch apple display, but if this is true i'm going to start looking at cheaper alternatives.

[ChrisH3677]

Is there any good reason for Apple not having a live stream of this event? :confused:

Yeah - why pay to go if you can see it on the 'net?

What's the benefit to Apple to stream it? Zip. In fact, it costs them to do it, and it devalues WWDC.

If they announce something really big this year, but don't stream - do you think attendance numbers will go up or down next year?

[drizahy4]

I will not consider the apple display as much as I swear by them until the prices are right. I might at well just go to gateway.com and grab a 42 inch plasma screen for $2000. TV plus VGA thats a no brainer for me. These displays better have something more then just and apple logo on it for me to get one.

BTW prices for the gateway lcd screens are
23" =$1499
26" =$1999
30" =$3000

So get cracking on that apple.

[webplummer]

Apologies to the thread for my having not read it, and this was probably covered already.

First of all... A 30" display made by Apple that's intended to be competitive? Other 30" LCDs cost roughly the same at bestbuy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat31800050024&type=category) and they're not made by Apple. So who's buying them? Not me, certainly. Too rich for my blood, and I would want a 42" (lcd) if I were planning on hanging it on the wall. Now that, for $3k, that would be a good deal.

I'm guessing there is something extra to these displays. Not just the typical Apple shine, but an additional feature that can't be had in any other large display. Perhaps the DVD is built-in, or the thing is also an Airport/Airtunes base station? Maybe it's got a digital cable-in port which converts it all to firewire and streams to an Apple-flavored Tivo software?

All kind of pie-in-the-sky, I realize. But Apple's done a good job of bundling features in their products lately. They've gotten smart about how that spreads their technologies. iTunes download gets you Quicktime. Airtunes gets you Airport. Is it so absurd to thing they'll be bundling another Trojan horse technology here?

Now, about the "why the hell won't anybody switch" thing. An earlier poster said that his girlfriend noted that her PC at work "does what she needs it to." I would add to that that people, for the most part, bring this sentiment home when they purchase a computer. The PC works good enough at the office, it's a known quantity (very important here) and I'll just go with what I know. For these reasons, I think, many don't even consider a Mac, or talk themselves out of it when they see the price is twice as high (superficially, I know. Let's not turn this into a comparison thread), remember all the 10-year-old arguments against Macs, and don't want to take a chance on something that may be considered a lust object—conspicuous consumption.

I would also note that many of the Google Zeitgeist numbers are probably for web access while people are at work. Note the usage trends and how they dive on the weekends. I think there are still many people who put up with a PC at work and use a Mac at home. So are they Mac users or PC users?

So for that reason, I would say that the corporate world is probably the most important one for Apple to make headway in. If they can make and market computers to corporate customers which meet their needs as good or better than their current setup, and cost in the same ballpark of what they were planning for IT expenses, I think you would see the Google Zeitgeist numbers, and the Mac share numbers go up dramatically.

apologies for the long post.

[joeboy_45101]

I've been thinking and Steve might introduce two iPods today. One being the HP branded iPod and a new iPod Ultra or Super iPod. That would give us the iPod mini, as entry level, the HP iPod, as mid-level, and the Super iPod, as high-level. Apple doesn't want to compete with HP on a their own product, so it would make sense for Apple to intro a new iPod and then leave HP to handle the marketing of the current one.

[DGFan]

if the 20" was $999 then theres not point of a 30" @ $2999. i could buy 3 20" with the price of 1 30"

So? For the high end brands you can buy two 17" screens for the price of one 20" screen. It doesn't scale linearly with number of pixels.

[Zaty]

With only four hours to go, what do you think, will we be happy after the keynote or will we be disappointed with the things Apple is going to announce/preview? I'm a bit sceptical but I hope that Tiger will be a great new OS X version. Perhpas Apple surprises us with new hardware other than the long-awaited displays.

[JeffTL]

This is a good point, when you put it in that perspective it's still hard for Mac to sell over PC even if the slashed the prices. It would be 'easier' no doubt, but wouldn't necessarily win the masses over. And I have to agree with your gf, PC's have always worked just fine for me too. Macs are like, a lexus to me compared to a Honda as the PC. If given the option between the two, the lexus is smarter, smoother, and much more expensive. But the Honda gets me where I gotta go and is thousands less. (I hate using those car analogies but it just seemed right this time).


Tell me, then. Is the iBook "more expensive" than a comparable 12" Windows laptop with a decent battery? That wasn't the case last May when I made the switch. I needed a small computer and name brand Wintel laptops seemed comparatively overpriced -- particularly if I wanted one that was neither from a company I was boycotting (rhymes with "Hell" and ripped me off on a mismarketed sound card) nor had a reputation with bad batteries (think about cows).

[ChrisH3677]

So for that reason, I would say that the corporate world is probably the most important one for Apple to make headway in. If they can make and market computers to corporate customers which meet their needs as good or better than their current setup, and cost in the same ballpark of what they were planning for IT expenses, I think you would see the Google Zeitgeist numbers, and the Mac share numbers go up dramatically.

Agree 100%. As an IT Manager of an organization running 100 odd PCs, I couldn't even begin to consider Macs because there was no model that fitted my specs and budget.

Apple - bring on a cMac!

PS I am now looking at a thin-client path for my organization so our money will probably be not going to Dell or Apple, but rather Wyse. Tho I'm sure it won't be long before Dell jump on that bandwagon which is beginning to gain some momentum. Tho, I may consider buying up old flat panel iMacs in a couple of years to solely run Windows sessions!

[Warbrain]

With only four hours to go, what do you think, will we be happy after the keynote or will we be disappointed with the things Apple is going to announce/preview? I'm a bit sceptical but I hope that Tiger will be a great new OS X version. Perhpas Apple surprises us with new hardware other than the long-awaited displays.

there will always be disappointment since apple will never release the PDA, they'll never release another Cube, and they'll never release the iMac G5 any time soon. The only thing that I could see being released other than the displays is a powerbook, but that's not going to happen any time soon.

[joeboy_45101]

Tell me, then. Is the iBook "more expensive" than a comparable 12" Windows laptop with a decent battery? That wasn't the case last May when I made the switch. I needed a small computer and name brand Wintel laptops seemed comparatively overpriced -- particularly if I wanted one that was neither from a company I was boycotting (rhymes with "Hell" and ripped me off on a mismarketed sound card) nor had a reputation with bad batteries (think about cows).

I saved about $500 by going with the iBook. I'd been wanting to make the switch for a long time and the oppurtunity came for me to purchase a laptop. I have nothing but praise for my iBook, and I know that whatever happens today I'm still going to be crazy for Apple. :)

[rmassung]

Hello,

Just downloaded our new Apple Educational Pricing and the doc lists 20, 23, and 30 displays on it. the 23 and 30 are HD.

Nothing else has changed hardware wise.

Later,

Rob

[longofest]

I am definitely hoping for that $999 price point on the 20" display. Honestly, I could care less about the 30", because it is going to be too much money either way for me. I'd rather get a G5 than a 30" display.

The 20" seems to be a lot of people's sweet spot. I know that if it does stay the same price, then I will have to wait even longer in order to buy it, or I will have to turn to another brand :(

I'm also anxious to see what Tiger has to offer. I hope more VISIBLE enhancements than Panther did. I got Panther because I'm a geek, but I couldn't see the improvements until about a month after I started using it, and I went to another machine that had Jaguar on it and saw the speed differences, etc. Apple will have to do more than just under-the-hood enhancements to justify another upgrade (although under-the-hood upgrades are very important).

One last thing... can anyone say $99 iSight??? or perhaps a new lifestyle device (surprise)???

[Skiniftz]

Just tried to check on my 2.5DP order:

Thank you for shopping at the Apple Online Store

Apple's Online and phone Order Status services are temporarily unavailable due to a scheduled upgrade to our systems.

We apologize for any inconvenience.

[silvergunuk]

I think there will be a stream posted after the keynote. The events on apples quicktime page have links to watch the other streams like macworld, itunes music store and such but the wwdc03 is not working so they have probably taken off access to that to replace it with a wwdc 04 stream...Watch this space.......

Bookmark http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc04/

Just in case.

[BakedBeans]

there will always be disappointment since apple will never release the PDA, they'll never release another Cube, and they'll never release the iMac G5 any time soon. The only thing that I could see being released other than the displays is a powerbook, but that's not going to happen any time soon.

okay, put the crack pipe down

[Jmitch]

I guess there is still a small chance that there will be a life broadcast. The earlier Apple annouces the live stream the more people will watch which could lead to bandwith constraints.

EDIT: I just read Apple confirmed there would be no broadcast, oh dear

One, Apple only confirmed there would be no satellite broadcast to anywhere, not that there would be no webcast. I'm still hoping for a last minute webcast. Holding out to the last minute might be due to the ticket sales. Secondly, if we don't get a live feed last minute, I'm really hoping for a FULL stream after it has happened.

[Sly]

PB G5 by the end of the year and imac G5 today according to Macworld UK http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=9016

[bathysphere]

One, Apple only confirmed there would be no satellite broadcast to anywhere, not that there would be no webcast. I'm still hoping for a last minute webcast. Holding out to the last minute might be due to the ticket sales. Secondly, if we don't get a live feed last minute, I'm really hoping for a FULL stream after it has happened.
there wasn't a live webcast last year either. there will most likely be a posthumous webcast.

[the silver fox]

Apple will have to do more than just under-the-hood enhancements to justify another upgrade (although under-the-hood upgrades are very important).

Surely under-the-hood speed improvements are the most important to the general user. I know there is a certain WOW! factor that some candy elements of the interface carry, but most enterprise, design and education customers don't really care about; they should be the areas that Apple need to focus on. Given that their banners are joking about Redmond needing to be worried etc, that is clearly their goal. They need to encourage more IT heads to consider a UNIX based OS that is easy to install, manage and fix over a large number of network based computers.

I couldnt give a monkey's about eye-candy (just for the sake of it - like genie, not like expose which has obvious production benefits) as long as it runs faster and plays better in a corporate or design environment.

:D

[BakedBeans]

PB G5 by the end of the year and imac G5 today according to Macworld UK http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=9016

nicely spoted


oh an silverfox..... stevie gerrard looks to be staying at liverpool there having a press confrence at three..... sky sports news if you have it matey

[the silver fox]

nicely spoted

I dont see why they would have better info than anyone else. Just because IBM have finally nailed PowerTune, which they have been banging on about for a good while, still doesnt mean we will see them before xmas. I'm thinking MWSF at the earliest.

[Xenious]

Hello,

Just downloaded our new Apple Educational Pricing and the doc lists 20, 23, and 30 displays on it. the 23 and 30 are HD.

Nothing else has changed hardware wise.

Later,

Rob

And the prices were??? ;)

[CholEoptera36]

So we have a hint that they might actually release the G5 iMacs after all?! Saweet, but I can't take it anymore!!! Just hours before they start!!!!! :D

I guess we'll just have to wait and see... (waiting sucks, and I can't see cause it's not broadcasted to me which double sucks)

[BakedBeans]

I dont see why they would have better info than anyone else. Just because IBM have finally nailed PowerTune, which they have been banging on about for a good while, still doesnt mean we will see them before xmas. I'm thinking MWSF at the earliest.


im not saying there right... i was just giving the lad a pat on the back for doing some spotting and reporting... plus i happen to think that they will be released today

[Jmitch]

there wasn't a live webcast last year either. there will most likely be a posthumous webcast.

Okay, first of all posthumous means it is occuring after a person's death. Secondly, why are you using past tense. "there wasn't" The damn thing hasn't happened yet. Hello, wake up buddy.

[takao]

Tell me, then. Is the iBook "more expensive" than a comparable 12" Windows laptop with a decent battery? That wasn't the case last May when I made the switch. I needed a small computer and name brand Wintel laptops seemed comparatively overpriced -- particularly if I wanted one that was neither from a company I was boycotting (rhymes with "Hell" and ripped me off on a mismarketed sound card) nor had a reputation with bad batteries (think about cows).

no the the ibook is at the moment the most apealing 12" hands down... it has a good price/performance rating and nice features
on laptops apple can easily compete with x86s no doubt.. but on consumer/pro-sumer desktops their models are lacking....in germany apple sold more ibooks than imacs and emacs _combined_ (but still only about 1,7 % of new sold computers which is the definition of marketshare)

i'm perhaps going to buy a ibook next year (please apple add 1-2 additional usb ports)...but i would prefere a desktop with 17" tft...

[seamuskrat]

As a university Sientist myself, i can say its about 50/50. I of course use Mcs, but the fact i sthat many hardware devices for science are PC only in terms of interface cards and applications. That said, many are Mac only as well. I do not know of any labs without at least one of each.
Buta s to preference, I would say where I am, its half and half.

I actually know quite a few ex-university biologists (who are now in the biotech sector) who used Macs while at university (because they were supplied by the department), but ditched them as soon as they possibly could when starting their own company. I also have friends in graphic design who started out on Macs, but moved across to PCs later on in their careers, and are quite happy in Wintel land. Switching does flow both ways. In fact, now that I think about it, I know more people who have gone from Mac to PC, rather than the other way around. Maybe it's something that happens to frustrated university scientists when they get into the private sector.



I agree. If Apples were cheaper, then we would see a lot more people switching. But they aren't, and I can't really see Apple getting into the budget arena. They seem quite content to stay at the premium end of the market, making nice margins on nice hardware. The marketshare tells the story. Approximately 98% of the market (insert your favourite marketshare estimate...they're all between 90% and 99% somewhere) says "Thanks, but not at that price".

[Elbeano]

Since I'm a recent convert from the PC world (not completely mind you), I have a tough time relating to this display situation. Why do you need some sort of LCD display at all? Are you all spending so much money on stuff that has a little apple and a floating leaf on it that you have houses or apartments where you can't fit a monitor on your desk? I can't deny the cool factor, how amazing the displays are, or the advantages of the ADC (even though you're stressing about ONE more cable). But how many 19" or 21" CRT's could you buy even for the cost of the most basic Apple monitor? You guys talk about how they're missing some opportunities if they don't have a choice below a grand, but I think they're missing out on some opportunities under a few hundred dollars. It's just bad business not to still offer CRT's, because I know personally I'd rather drop 3 grand on the full monty in G5 land and use some CRT's than skimp on a dual 1.8 so I can get an apple display. I’d spend more money on an Apple CRT without giving it a second thought. But that's just me. I stayed PC for so long because I could build one for like 500 dollars, and Apple folk will line up to spend multiples of that on just the display.

Just my thoughts

[the silver fox]

nicely spoted


oh an silverfox..... stevie gerrard looks to be staying at liverpool there having a press confrence at three..... sky sports news if you have it matey

Thanks mate, but sadly I'm going to be stuck in the car :(

[BakedBeans]

Thanks mate, but sadly I'm going to be stuck in the car :(

well i will keep you informed ok


oh you ment powerbooks....yeah jan05 is my guess i wish they had it out now tho because i have to buy the 1.5 g4 (dependent on what happens today)

[the silver fox]

im not saying there right... i was just giving the lad a pat on the back for doing some spotting and reporting... plus i happen to think that they will be released today

Yes definitely agree on the spotting, and I really hope we do see powerbooks soon (I meant them not the iMac), but sadly I think it may be a while. I hope I get to munch on some headwear.

[Xenious]

I had a scary thought.

Apple releases updated LCDs with no discounted pricing and kills the 17". Now lets go into the crazed realm of marketing and think about this. It doesn't seem as odd if we accept the mantra "iMac for comsumer, G5 for professional."

"Why do we need conusmer pricing on monitors if our consumer device already has a built in monitor?"

"Professionals have corporate dollars and can spend more for high end hardware."

Now as a pro-sumer I don't like the above thoughts any more than most. I was looking forward to picking up a 30" at a sub $3000 point. However it does all make sense when looked at from a marketing viewpoint.
-jim

[sfwalter]

I did some investigating and it's hard to find a 20"-21" lcd lfat panel that retails for less than $1,000. Both Sony and Smasung are above $1,000. When was the last time you saw Apple's prices below the competition?

[AliensAreFuzzy]

The Store is down for an update...

[sinisterdesign]

wouldnt it be sweet if apple surprised everyone tomorrow with that optical pad/scroll mouse thing . . . they really need to hop on that bandwagon already

one button mouse is way too simplistic

here, here. i know it's not on the display topic, but this is still a topic that really chaffs my a$$. WHY a one button mouse, steve??!? i worked at apple for a while and was in an internal meeting (when they were intro-ing the G4) and someone asked him if we/they would ever produce a 2-button mouse. steve said it was a "failure of software design" to need more than one button.

yeah, it's MUCH easier to CTRL-click w/ my other hand and scroll by clicking on a 32x32pix button. give it a rest, steve. i'm tired of shelling out another $40 to microsoft everytime i buy a new Mac.

[Spades]

However it does all make sense when looked at from a marketing viewpoint.
-jim

Somehow, just about anything can make sense from a marketing viewpoint. ;)

[sebaz]

the store is working for me np...

[the silver fox]

Just in case anyone was interested in what PowerTune is and how it will help them get G5s into notebooks, here is the article. Nicely in-depth. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1617070,00.asp

[amols]

Okay, first of all posthumous means it is occuring after a person's death. Secondly, why are you using past tense. "there wasn't" The damn thing hasn't happened yet. Hello, wake up buddy.


I think "last year" very well falls in the past. And if I trust my rusty memory :rolleyes:, there was a live webcast of last year WWDC because I remember seeing "Live" in QuickTime timeline rather than usual scrolling arrow. But I'm not sure if it was WWDC.

[2A Batterie]

I hate to be fueling a seemingly ubsurd (sp?) rumor, but has anyone notice that all the deal websites are trying to clear out some Apple laptops? There seems to be more of this going on than usual. Check under the deals section at mac.watchster.com and you'll see what I mean. Could this be a possible indication or should I switch to decaf?

[amols]

My God.. I was at the beginning of 8th page when I started typing my post....and it has ended up on the middle of 9th page. This is really brewing up.

[the silver fox]

I hate to be fueling a seemingly ubsurd (sp?) rumor, but has anyone notice that all the deal websites are trying to clear out some Apple laptops? There seems to be more of this going on than usual. Check under the deals section at mac.watchster.com and you'll see what I mean. Could this be a possible indication or should I switch to decaf?

Hmm... I'd say at least change to single espressos. ;)

[DTphonehome]

I hate to be fueling a seemingly ubsurd (sp?) rumor, but has anyone notice that all the deal websites are trying to clear out some Apple laptops? There seems to be more of this going on than usual. Check under the deals section at mac.watchster.com and you'll see what I mean. Could this be a possible indication or should I switch to decaf?

Most of those you pointed to are refurbished units. Apple sells refurbs too, under the deals section on their own website. Plus they come with warranty.

--DT

[broken_keyboard]

They should at least have a live webcast for Apple Developer Connection members. $500 per year it costs...

Put the webcast on the ADC website.

[2A Batterie]

Hmm... I'd say at least change to single espressos. ;)
*shake* *shake*, Alright... I'll lay back on the triple shots during these rumor rushes *shake**twitch* (insert bugged-eyed smilie here)

[tYNS]

yeah, it's MUCH easier to CTRL-click w/ my other hand and scroll by clicking on a 32x32pix button. give it a rest, steve. i'm tired of shelling out another $40 to microsoft everytime i buy a new Mac.

Haha. This arguement never dies! :) I totally agree .. but steve logic makes sense too .. it is good to have restrictions in mind when developing software. It does make for better software interfacing to no be dependant on excessive features.

Unfortunately, I just bought a Powerbook and shelled out $20 bucks for a Microsoft Optical Mouse as well. :) Apple should probably consider a after market 2-3 button scrolling mouse as a Build to oder configuration.. They could make an extra few dollars on the side.

[Stella]

You know, you don't have to buy microsoft mice.. there are many other manuacturers....

Tried logitech? Much, much better than MS.

Haha. This arguement never dies! :) I totally agree .. but steve logic makes sense too .. it is good to have restrictions in mind when developing software. It does make for better software interfacing to no be dependant on excessive features.

Unfortunately, I just bought a Powerbook and shelled out $20 bucks for a Microsoft Optical Mouse as well. :) Apple should probably consider a after market 2-3 button scrolling mouse as a Build to oder configuration.. They could make an extra few dollars on the side.

[abc123]

how long until this thing kicks off, i'm australian and contemplating hitting the sack but if it is just a few hours i might see if i can stay awake.

[GrannySmith_G5]

I think this bad ass mutha humper starts in 3 hours.

[Machead III]

They could at least make another mouse, so people can choose, I mean christ you can just stick a scroll wheel in there and sell it for $40, it's not like you'd have to invest millions in R&D.

[sebaz]

3 more hours

[Irafas]

Edit: Why did I fall for that. Bloody weekend.

Anyways... good luck all for new iMacs, cheap displays, G5 powerbooks, and a roaring Tiger. I'm off to sleep.

[abc123]

heh, i won't last
i guess i'll be catching up with the happenings in the morning.

[tYNS]

You know, you don't have to buy microsoft mice.. there are many other manuacturers....

Tried logitech? Much, much better than MS.

Oh boy, do not get me started on logitech.. I bought a $100 mouse from them about 12 years ago.. .and it broke 3 months later.. for some reason they would not replace it.. I HATE the logitech buttons as well.. the MS mice wrap the buttons aroudn the edges of the mouse.. Logtech has hard plastic edges on the sides of the buttons.. I have big bear hands, so button pressing on logitech sucks for me.

[Skiniftz]

Just checking our educational price list dated 21st June - it has ARD2.0 on it but no 30" display mentioned.

Also, when did they refer to the iMac as "G4 iMac" ? Didn't it just used to be "iMac"?

[chrislyon30]

Well as we all know, Steve Jobs is a man of his word. Apple computers have been trying hard to keep its upcoming hardwre and software from the rumors site because it does hurt Apple sales and Marketing strategy.

I have a very close friend that works at Apple, and he let me onto something today. Apple has planned to release 3Ghz Powermac G5 that would start shipping at the end of the fall season, around Christmas Time.

The Dual 3 Ghz Powermac G5 will cost 3999.99$ and will feature the X800 Pro or X800XT graphic Card. It will also feature the 10,000 rpm Serial ATA hard Drive with also the DUAL LAYER Superdrive.

Also Apple have already designed the Iamc G5 and The powerbook G5. This one will now feature a full size 99 keys keyboard like the one found on 17" Hewlett Packard laptop.

[Skiniftz]

Well as we all know, Steve Jobs is a man of his word. Apple computers have been trying hard to keep its upcoming hardwre and software from the rumors site because it does hurt Apple sales and Marketing strategy.

I have a very close friend that works at Apple, and he let me onto something today. Apple has planned to release 3Ghz Powermac G5 that would start shipping at the end of the fall season, around Christmas Time.

The Dual 3 Ghz Powermac G5 will cost 3999.99$ and will feature the X800 Pro or X800XT graphic Card. It will also feature the 10,000 rpm Serial ATA hard Drive with also the DUAL LAYER Superdrive.

Also Apple have already designed the Iamc G5 and The powerbook G5. This one will now feature a full size 99 keys keyboard like the one found on 17" Hewlett Packard laptop.

Oh wow - from a newbie account.. must be taken seriously...

[pjkelnhofer]

I had a scary thought.

Apple releases updated LCDs with no discounted pricing and kills the 17". Now lets go into the crazed realm of marketing and think about this. It doesn't seem as odd if we accept the mantra "iMac for comsumer, G5 for professional."

"Why do we need conusmer pricing on monitors if our consumer device already has a built in monitor?"

"Professionals have corporate dollars and can spend more for high end hardware."

Now as a pro-sumer I don't like the above thoughts any more than most. I was looking forward to picking up a 30" at a sub $3000 point. However it does all make sense when looked at from a marketing viewpoint.
-jim

I am confused about everyone expecting Apple to drop the prices on displays. It seems that Apple's current prices for the 20" and 23" are pretty competitive with other high-end LCD monitors. There are some below $1000, but the majority are in the same price range. The Sony 23" LCD retails for more than Apple's, and if you can find me a 30" HD LCD Monitor below $3000 I would like to know where.
Since when has Apple been the industry leader for lowering prices?
If you do not like Apple's pricing feel free to buy one of the cheaper LCD displays on the market, this is one of the places where even the Mac user has choices, it is not as if you can't go pick up a monitor from Sony, HP, or just about anywhere.

[CholEoptera36]

Hey everyone's a newbie at some point :mad:

[the silver fox]

Hey everyone's a newbie at some point :mad:

Is someone being unfair?

[Lancetx]

Oh wow - from a newbie account.. must be taken seriously...

In an unrelated story, Intel and Microsoft will have a joint press conference today to announce that Longhorn will actually be ready to ship by the end of this week and that Intel has 6 GHz Pentium 5 processors ready for immediate delivery... :D :p

[ts1973]

Haha. This arguement never dies! :) I totally agree .. but steve logic makes sense too .. it is good to have restrictions in mind when developing software. It does make for better software interfacing to no be dependant on excessive features.

Unfortunately, I just bought a Powerbook and shelled out $20 bucks for a Microsoft Optical Mouse as well. :) Apple should probably consider a after market 2-3 button scrolling mouse as a Build to oder configuration.. They could make an extra few dollars on the side.

Actually : they already do. I bought a Kensington pocket mouse together with my PB G4 !
I do a lot of CAD and really can't cope without the second button (whether this is due to the software design is a different matter, my CAD program just makes a lot of use of the second button).

[Skiniftz]

Hey everyone's a newbie at some point :mad:
I know.. however it never ceases to surprise me how many newbies suddenly appear with one post only citing information from "a friend" about what Apple will be releasing.

All to be taken with a large pinch of salt!

[remingtonhill]

I saved about $500 by going with the iBook. I'd been wanting to make the switch for a long time and the oppurtunity came for me to purchase a laptop. I have nothing but praise for my iBook, and I know that whatever happens today I'm still going to be crazy for Apple. :)

I don't think it's really fair to compare Apple Computers to Dells/Gateways/etc.

I think a better price comparison would be to compare Apple Prices with premium computer manufactures, like IBM.

[Skiniftz]

Actually I bet Steve-o himself could take perverse pleasure in signing up here as a newbie and posting the truth.


Noone would believe him.

[michaelrjohnson]

Actually I bet Steve-o himself could take perverse pleasure in signing up here as a newbie and posting the truth.


Noone would believe him.

That's true... however, I have no doubts that the CEO is also under NDA.

[Photorun]

I guess new displays are a foregone conclusion. I noticed on the Apple Store's "Sale" page that there's no longer any used Apple displays, they were there over the weekend. I'm thinking they took them down and will put them up with slightly lower prices. So anyone who actually wants to buy a big clunky plastic 20" CD for what the new ones SHOULD COST should go there after the keynote.

[silvergunuk]

Is there a possibility that Apple could unveil a totally new product that would take over the imac for a cheap price to go up against the cheaper pc market?

[Jmitch]

here, here. i know it's not on the display topic, but this is still a topic that really chaffs my a$$. WHY a one button mouse, steve??!? i worked at apple for a while and was in an internal meeting (when they were intro-ing the G4) and someone asked him if we/they would ever produce a 2-button mouse. steve said it was a "failure of software design" to need more than one button.

yeah, it's MUCH easier to CTRL-click w/ my other hand and scroll by clicking on a 32x32pix button. give it a rest, steve. i'm tired of shelling out another $40 to microsoft everytime i buy a new Mac.


No, Steve is right. It is a failure of software design to require two buttons on a mouse. In other words, if the software was designed correctly and intuitively one button should only be needed to use the software in a quick and efficient way. The only reason apple has the ctrl-click is for poor developers who can't seem to grasp the art of software requiring only a single button. And that's a fact. The single-button mouse is much more ergonomic and intuitive.

[the061]

Has anybody thought that maybe some shrewd marketing person over at Konfabulator made up the screen shots? Konfabulator certainly are getting a lot of coverage today? Especially with everybody referring to the (alleged) Apple screen shots being inferior to K?

Just a thought.

[ts1973]

No, Steve is right. It is a failure of software design to require two buttons on a mouse. In other words, if the software was designed correctly and intuitively one button should only be needed to use the software in a quick and efficient way. The only reason apple has the ctrl-click is for poor developers who can't seem to grasp the art of software requiring only a single button. And that's a fact. The single-button mouse is much more ergonomic and intuitive.

I'm sorry, but as I've stated before : Apple is not running the software market. Many Applications out there require (or function better) with the 2-button mouse. I think Apple must go along with the facts, and the ease of use of as many applications as possible, instead of stubbornly sticking to their own ideals.

[amols]

Well as we all know, Steve Jobs is a man of his word. Apple computers have been trying hard to keep its upcoming hardwre and software from the rumors site because it does hurt Apple sales and Marketing strategy.

I have a very close friend that works at Apple, and he let me onto something today. Apple has planned to release 3Ghz Powermac G5 that would start shipping at the end of the fall season, around Christmas Time.

The Dual 3 Ghz Powermac G5 will cost 3999.99$ and will feature the X800 Pro or X800XT graphic Card. It will also feature the 10,000 rpm Serial ATA hard Drive with also the DUAL LAYER Superdrive.

Also Apple have already designed the Iamc G5 and The powerbook G5. This one will now feature a full size 99 keys keyboard like the one found on 17" Hewlett Packard laptop.


Whaaaaaaatt ??? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Zaty]

Well as we all know, Steve Jobs is a man of his word. Apple computers have been trying hard to keep its upcoming hardwre and software from the rumors site because it does hurt Apple sales and Marketing strategy.

I have a very close friend that works at Apple, and he let me onto something today. Apple has planned to release 3Ghz Powermac G5 that would start shipping at the end of the fall season, around Christmas Time.

The Dual 3 Ghz Powermac G5 will cost 3999.99$ and will feature the X800 Pro or X800XT graphic Card. It will also feature the 10,000 rpm Serial ATA hard Drive with also the DUAL LAYER Superdrive.

Also Apple have already designed the Iamc G5 and The powerbook G5. This one will now feature a full size 99 keys keyboard like the one found on 17" Hewlett Packard laptop.

I doubt it, on the other hand, this could be the reason why the new PM 2.5 w/ liquid cooling was released silently. Secondly, it's not impossible we will see 3.0 GHz at Christmas.

[Jmitch]

I'm sorry, but as I've stated before : Apple is not running the software market. Many Applications out there require (or function better) with the 2-button mouse. I think Apple must go along with the facts, and the ease of use of as many applications as possible, instead of stubbornly sticking to their own ideals.

Apple sticks to what they believe. That's what makes them such a great company. They don't just change based on what the rest of the market is doing. Like most other companies...

I personally agree with the single-button concept and think others developers should see the benefit of a single-button mouse and follow Apple. I think they will, as they have already started to.

[Dame Scribble]

I'm a fan of Apple's products, and let me say straight out that I have NO CLUE as to what Apple is going to release.
But on that note, I will say that I have switched from PC to Mac when the Graphite G4 came out, and I have never, ever looked back.
Since then, my wife and I have bought a TiBook, a G4 iBook and a 12'' AiBook. Solid, all machines.
So instead of wishing and wanting and what-not, I think Apple deserves some credit for generally taking good care of its customers with it's harware/SW releases. Some will never, ever be satisfied, but for what I do, the machines simply work.
So instead of what Apple "should" or "could" release, we should just sit back and see what actually comes out.
Heck, I was caught off-guard by Airport Express!
$0.02.
-d.

[takao]

Apple sticks to what they believe. That's what makes them such a great company. They don't just change based on what the rest of the market is doing. Like most other companies...

I personally agree with the single-button concept and think others developers should see the benefit of a single-button mouse and follow Apple. I think they will, as they have already started to.

so why does itunes for windows use the right mouse button ? the interferes with your argumentation line

i personally see no benefit for 95% of the people (some might have problems with confusing right and left....) for using one button .. sorry

[michaelrjohnson]

I would argue that the dual button is more efficient. From a developer's standpoint, being able to provide access to additional features to the end-user without any complex mouse movements seems to make more sense than having to click-and-hold (for a certain amount of time) or some other schema of accesesing those options.

[Jmitch]

so why does itunes for windows use the right mouse button ? the interferes with your argumentation line

i personally see no benefit for 95% of the people (some might have problems with confusing right and left....) for using one button .. sorry

Yes they have the functions implemented, however one can use iTunes just as efficiently with a single-button mouse as they can with a dual. And the point is, it's simpler.

[whooleytoo]

I know.. however it never ceases to surprise me how many newbies suddenly appear with one post only citing information from "a friend" about what Apple will be releasing.

All to be taken with a large pinch of salt!

Then again, if you had insider info that you wanted to spill, wouldn't you post under a new, false user ID too?

[whooleytoo]

That's true... however, I have no doubts that the CEO is also under NDA.

Oh yeah, and who'd be brave enough to give him a rap across the knuckles?? I've heard some of the staff are terrified of just being in the same lift as him! :D

[ingenious]

Man... I had a hard time going to bed last night! It's only 2 hours away! :D

C'mon iMac G5 and great new OS X release!

[broken_keyboard]

Apple sticks to what they believe. That's what makes them such a great company. They don't just change based on what the rest of the market is doing. Like most other companies...

I personally agree with the single-button concept and think others developers should see the benefit of a single-button mouse and follow Apple. I think they will, as they have already started to.

I like the single button but I think they should add a mouse wheel.

[Skiniftz]

Ok.. I've been thinking about this - WHY would they take down the existing order STATUS pages today?

Are we going to find out that the DP2.5 doesnt exist and we are all getting upgraded to DP3's?

Why? WHY??!!

[aswitcher]

Damn, no iMacs.

[wdlove]

Damn, no iMacs.

You still have a chance, after all tomorrow is Tuesday. Would not at all be surprised to see other announcements this week.