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arn
Jul 16, 2002, 06:09 PM
MacMinute provided (http://www.macminute.com/lib/020716conf.shtml) coverage for Apple's 3Q financial results conference call. Key notes:

- 50 Retail Stores with no International stores planned
- Shipped fewer XServes than expected
- Pro sales missed estimates

afonso
Jul 16, 2002, 06:24 PM
i like the quote:

"
We feel good about our long-term outlook. We feel that "Switchers" campaign, strong products and retail stores will help us. See some of those new products tomorrow.
"

:D :cool: :p

pgwalsh
Jul 16, 2002, 06:28 PM
This doesn't suprise me considering market conditions.

gelbin
Jul 16, 2002, 06:28 PM
If they announce some good POWER machines, the sales will really spike (i think). At least, for me personally, i have been waiting for the next generation power mac (since my agp g4 450) and if this is the ticket, those power sales should go back up.

the rest may just be a lag in the market....

and server sales may boost with more power users buying machines as well....

pgwalsh
Jul 16, 2002, 06:31 PM
I've also been waiting on new PMacs.

eric_n_dfw
Jul 16, 2002, 06:34 PM
From the site:
# Pro sales missed estimates; Apple didn't see the boost it expected from the shipment of Adobe Photoshop 7, and miscalculated the number of users who are holding off on purchasing new systems pending the release of Mac OS X 10.2 and QuarkXPress for Mac OS X
Or maybe because YOUR HARDWARE IS STALE!

Sorry, but statements like that make me wonder if Apple is really clueless about what power users want.

3rdpath
Jul 16, 2002, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
From the site:

Or maybe because YOUR HARDWARE IS STALE!

Sorry, but statements like that make me wonder if Apple is really clueless about what power users want.

i think apple knows what the powerusers want...but they just can't catch-up.

that earnings call didn't give me high hopes for any big news tomorrow.

i think its pretty obvious apple has stumbled a bit...but to be fair-it is a really crappy market out there-which means you gotta have the best goods at the best price and theres not a clear winner among apple's releases.

windwaves
Jul 16, 2002, 06:48 PM
...and a number of new products some of which we'll hear about tomorrow ...
Well, we are almost there and we find out whether SJ is bluffing :)
My feeling is we'll hear about and see some good stuff tomorrow but the real juicy stuff is coming later.
Anyhow, the new juicy stuff is what Apple needs to revamp sales and bottom line. So far though not a bad job given the poor state of the industry.

JtheLemur
Jul 16, 2002, 06:57 PM
EEEEEEEVERYONE wants new PowerMacs.

Considering their sales were (NO surprise) LESS than expected as far as towers go, perhaps all the big shareholders called them up and told them they better at least INTRODUCE new towers tomorrow! I dont know of ONE person that is considering purchasing a new tower until the NEW ones are released, whenever that may be... *sigh*

-- J

PS - if you're planning on catching the keynote on TechTV, I believe it's been CANCELED. =(

Sayer
Jul 16, 2002, 07:11 PM
I like how Steve and Co. can't understand (or can't admit) that professional product sales are so bad because people are expecting a BIG change in the desktop Mac in *addition* to Mac OS X 10.2 that they have been throwing in our faces as being FAR SUPERIOR to what we got NOW.

HELLLOOOO????? ANYONE HOME IN CUPERTINO?

Pre-announcing much better products (10.2) KILLS sales. Introducing a much cheaper albeit LCD-based eMac RIGHT after the LCD iMac AND raising the price on said iMac killed ITS sales. The eMac is on sale to non-education markets because THAT is what people really want (big screens for cheap, whizzy LCDs on an arm on a tiny round base for twice as much is NOT).

Is anyone else mystified by these strange coincidences besides Apple executives?

To quote Jar-Jar Binks: "Me give up!"

Tomorrow expect this:

New iTunes to encode to AAC via QuickTime 6.

New iPod firmware to handle AAC (double the storage by using smaller/better AAC files). Maybe some iPod accessories too. Again Apple misses out and arrives late to the party with the DETAILS (cases, packs, adaptors, remote) like with the CD-R/W fiasco.

Lots of software this time folks. Maybe even some spec changes on various hardware to keep from being a total waste of time.

Thats all I expect - if there is more well hey howdy thats GREAT.

Pismo
Jul 16, 2002, 07:18 PM
Did you see Motorolla's losses? YIKES!! The only way Apple will "ditch" Motorolla is when/if they file for Chapter 11.

MikeH
Jul 16, 2002, 07:39 PM
It appears most people who this forum seem to think they make up the bulk of the Mac buyers, when it's most likely that we are just a tiny minority of hardcore Mac fans.

I too am hoping for new Power Macs at MWNY, but even if we all rushed out and buy new Macs tomorrow the sales are not going to make a whole lot of difference to Apples finances.

What's needed is the Publishing houses and large design/advertising agencies etc. replacing dozens of aging Mac's and given the current financial climate the corperate bean counters are not going to swayed by a shiney new case and more Mhz as much as those hoping to use them.

Even ignoring stock market ups and (mainly) downs, publishing house especially are going to be unwilling to upgrade to new Macs and OS X until Quark XPress goes native - and knowing Quark all too well thats going to be a while yet.

If new Power Macs do appear tomorrow I may be persuaded to part with my beer tokens, but I fear it will take situations beyond Apples control to change for the better before we see its fortunes rise.

gopher
Jul 16, 2002, 07:40 PM
Post profits in the middle of a recession.
Lose only 1% on number of sales when the PC industry in the U.S. is losing 2%, and as much as 20% in Japan. It warns its earnings will be less than expected, but still it manages to post a profit in line with their warning! What can I say, but Apple is nothing less than the tightest run ship in the computer business. As for waiting for new PowerMacs incentives like these aren't enough to push people:

1. Apple offers three months SAME AS CASH purchases from the Apple Store.
2. Apple offering as much as $400 off on the $500 LCD display when you purchase a PowerMac.
3. Apple's G4s are as much as 5 times faster than PCs running RC5 equations and Genetics software, and 3 times faster at DVD encoding.

I guess the real problem is Apple made machines that were too good and work too well, so nobody needs to upgrade. It is tricky, how much built-in obsolecense is enough to keep people buying more, while not making them think your product is of bad quality?

Oh and for all those who Mac OS X speed isn't enough, run XOptimize for goodness sake. And if it is View by Kind which slows you down, use Sherlock to locate files by kind. Or even Filebuddy.

Mr. Anderson
Jul 16, 2002, 07:40 PM
pro sales missed estimates because of the lack of an obvious pro machine. tomorrow they have an opportunity to change that, sure hope they do.

D

dongmin
Jul 16, 2002, 07:44 PM
Moto's stock actually went up 5% despite their $2.3 bil loss. Moto's losses are attributed to their "restructuring" efforts.

I think it's time for Moto to sell off their PPC assets to IBM-Apple. They cut almost 40% of their workforce since August 2000 and have heavily remade their semiconductors division. I have doubts about the future development of the PPC given their layoffs and restructuring.

pgwalsh
Jul 16, 2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by dongmin
I have doubts about the future development of the PPC given their layoffs and restructuring.
Are you saying you think they'll give up the embedded market after they just signed a contract with Cisco? Or I you just referring to PPC for Apple computers? I disagree, but I'd like to know why you think they'd hit this area?

Timothy
Jul 16, 2002, 08:55 PM
We are not stupid. a few mghz here and there does not an upgrade make. There are components, such as DDR ram and faster bus speeds, higher cache, that Apple could have given us 2 years ago but have yet to include in their machines. I have specifically not upgraded my hardware because of this. These are specific decisions that Apple has made, and I have rewarded those decisions by not spending my money on a new box.

Give me the needed boost...which needs to be huge...and I'll give you my money.

Don't take me for a fool...

tortus
Jul 16, 2002, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by MikeH
What's needed is the Publishing houses and large design/advertising agencies etc. replacing dozens of aging Mac's and given the current financial climate the corperate bean counters are not going to swayed by a shiney new case and more Mhz as much as those hoping to use them.


Well, if the tech departments at these houses and firms are worth two ****s, those in charge of equipment purchases are getting the red light as far as new PowerMac purchases at this point in time with new system architecture in the near future.

It makes perfect sense. The economy is bad. Make due with your current hardware, hoard your capital, and purchase the new PowerMacs when they are released. Apple is not in a good position with the PowerUsers. They have a surplus of PowerMacs that people don't want for the price tag. Perhaps Apple will offer 1000 off in a couple months when reality sets in.

Bring us the new PowerMacs with modern architecture and watch the orders flow in.

mozez
Jul 16, 2002, 09:35 PM
people will bash for this, but it needs to be said, you guys are so freakin off it's not funny, some of you at least have a clue. first this:

"1. Apple offers three months SAME AS CASH purchases from the Apple Store.
2. Apple offering as much as $400 off on the $500 LCD display when you purchase a PowerMac.
3. Apple's G4s are as much as 5 times faster than PCs running RC5 equations and Genetics software, and 3 times faster at DVD encoding. "

no, apple does not offer 400 off the 500 15 inch screen, they offer 100, and you get 300 for the 17inch and 500 for the way overpriced 22inch or 23 inch.

the dual ghz mac can't even come close to most amds in dvd encoding, the amds which can be optimized for dvd encoding, can go at almost 3 times realtime encoding, we have dual 1ghz macs at work, they don't even get near that fast of speed, we do alot of dvd encoding, as weird as that sounds.

the major point, we, as in everyone looking to get a powermac, you make up maybe, well, look at salls figures, 7% !!!!!! of mac sales. imac!!!!! ibook!!!! things that are below 2 grand!!!!! that is what sells, not the powermac!!! the powermac is great and we all use it, but the majority of people who buy computers are just regular people, people who aren't hardcore, grandparents, new people to computers, and they don't spend 3 grand on a powermac, they spend 1300 for a cute looking imac, emac, ibook. you guys seem to think you have so much sway and that apple is purposfully not upgrading or that they would suddenly get huge profits if they released a 1.5 ghz g5. if they did release that, profits would not change, they would not change!!!!! so you don't buy a new mac, well, guess what, other people don't care, they still are buying new macs, and apple knows where their 47% of slaes goes, one machine, the new imac, 47% people, one machine in their lineup, which means 53% goes to the powerbook, emac, powermac, classic imac, which still sells well, xserve, ibook, which sells great, in comparison... and all their software titles. so will people please stop saying that apple is finished if they don't release some 5ghz beast, they will be fine, and actually, as sad as this is, if they stopped putting so much into motorola and they had all machines at max 2500, sales would go up, if they dropped the powermacs completely, dropped the xserve, and just made less expensive machines, they'd sell more, why did so many people by the imac, it's cool, it's new, and was cost effective to the normal person, now it's great if the people here on macrumors have their parents shell out 3500 everytime a new powermac comes out, or they are freelance graphic designers, but please, most people can't do that, and since retailers want you to upgrade every year or two, people won't shell out 3500, just to pay 3500 next year.

and for one last thing, if you use a g4 450 everyday, and you upgrade to a dual 1ghz and use photoshop, and you say that that isn't a huge upgrade and faster than thought it was, you're nuts, and you don't deserve to be a mac owner.

D*I*S_Frontman
Jul 16, 2002, 09:37 PM
Apple doesn't have a choice but to upgrade the towers, and quickly. Thanks to the XServe we all know that DDR RAM and better motherboard bandwidth are imminent upgrades, and NO ONE with any sense at all would buy the current top-end dual 1ghz tower knowing that a huge system bandwidth upgrade is right around the corner.

$1000 off rebates on the existing units to blow the inventory out the door is the only way they'll move PM units. Jaguar will not convince serious buyers to pay $3k + for a system that lacks DDR RAM. We'll all just keep chugging along on our antiquated systems until the real stuff hits the streets. Meanwhile Apple bleeds and sits on millions of overpriced inventory. Time to open the floodgates of back inventory by deeply slashing prices--before they become boat anchors.

I would have to see just how presales hurt Apple. Sure, for consumer units like iMac it isn't the best way to go, especially when Apple ups the price shortly thereafter due to LCD price spikes. Kills the "impulse buy." But corporations and small businesses which have to submit proposals and allocate funds for system upgrades shouldn't mind an announcement followed by a wait. What "power user" among you would hesitate for even a second to order a new 1.4ghz dualie w/new video, DDR RAM, bus speed, and cache upgrades at the $3500 price point if you REALLY needed the extra productivity? What company wouldn't wait for an extra 30-60 days for a dramatically better system?

Can't wait to hear what Steve has to say tomorrow...

Rocketman
Jul 16, 2002, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by MikeH
It appears most people who this forum seem to think they make up the bulk of the Mac buyers, when it's most likely that we are just a tiny minority of hardcore Mac fans.


Agreed. The fanaticism expressed here is NOT indicative of 97% of the market.

But it indicative of the 3% of early adopters. Something marketers usually WISH they had the pulse of. Here they do.

Rocketman

Rocketman
Jul 16, 2002, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by D*I*S_Frontman
Time to open the floodgates of back inventory by deeply slashing prices--before they become boat anchors.


If you are referring to some comparison of what could possibly have been done, in theory, yes, perhaps.

BUT when you look at what real people and companies do with computers on a day to day basis with software as it exists with all its faults, a Powermac is still a sensational machine at a sensational price with an unparalleled system life as compared to ANY other computer on the planet.

To take the attitude of a person at the 3% bleeding edge of early adopters and apply that to the modal mac buyer is not only wrong but grossly wrong.

People were buying Max II fx's at EOL and Mac II vx at EOL and PPC 601 at EOL when HUGE improvements were just around the corner. They were really happy with what they purchased in personal terms, if not relative terms.

Rocketman

Rower_CPU
Jul 16, 2002, 10:06 PM
Sad thing is with those rebate offers we have two possibilities:

1) No announcements of new PowerMacs until August 13th (when the rebate expires), which will piss a lot of people off.

2) Announcement of new PowerMacs during the keynote, but not available until August 13th, which will effectively kill sales for the next month.

Do any of you see a way that they could release a new PowerMac tomorrow and still stick to the rebate? I don't.

evilpenguin21
Jul 17, 2002, 12:03 AM
Ever think the reason mac sales are so low is because everyone is always waiting til the next revision to buy something. Save apple, everyone just buy what you want tommorow :)

synp
Jul 17, 2002, 02:17 AM
Here's a quote that I found interesting:

"Apple expects fourth-quarter revenues to be flat, while gross margins are expected to decline due to more agressive pricing and the stronger Euro "

Perhaps this means more affordable iMacs, PMacs.