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MacRumors
Aug 28, 2009, 08:58 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/08/28/convertbot-app-update-rejected-over-too-similar-time-icon/)

An update to Convertbot, a popular conversion app by Tapbots, was rejected by Apple because of an icon that was thought to be too similar to another one already used in the standard iPhone interface, according to the Tapbots blog (http://tapbots.com/blog/app-store/a-well-timed-letter-of-rejection).


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/08/28/094742-convertbot-rejection_500.jpg

Image courtesy of Tapbots.com
Convertbot offers a time conversion feature and the icon that represents it, which has been the same in all versions of Convertbot since it was initially released, was flagged by Apple:

Convertbot 1.4 was rejected because our icon for Time is too similar to one of Apple's default resource icons for History/Recent. They say users might get confused that our Time category might mean History or Recent. Now I might be able to understand if this happened when we first submitted Convertbot, but there have been multiple releases already so why is this a show-stopper now?

In order for the update to be approved, the icon must be re-designed. However, Apple has not provided any guidelines on what will be an acceptable re-design.

Convertbot costs $.99 and can be found here (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=308928075&mt=8) (link opens iTunes).

Article Link: 'Convertbot' App Update Rejected Over Too-Similar Time Icon (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/08/28/convertbot-app-update-rejected-over-too-similar-time-icon/)



zombitronic
Aug 28, 2009, 09:10 AM
Fair enough. It is pretty much the exact same icon.

They should just move the hands and put a little knob on top like a stopwatch.

ventro
Aug 28, 2009, 09:11 AM
Ridiculous. As if Apple somehow has ownership over that time icon. However, the hourglass icon as proposed in the comments would work. But still, this is such a perversion of what the App Store was founded upon.

Small White Car
Aug 28, 2009, 09:12 AM
I'm torn.

On the one hand this seems like a really, minor, stupid thing for Apple to complain about.

On the other hand, they're using an icon from the phone app to represent something different than it means in the phone. I kind of understand why that's bad.

I guess, I understand Apple's reason, it's just terrible that they let it go for so long. THAT's the dumb part, I guess. The fact that it was ok before but isn't now.

Fuchal
Aug 28, 2009, 09:25 AM
The real question is how does a clock really represent recent calls or history? :rolleyes:

Makes more sense being used in Convertbot

ArtOfWarfare
Aug 28, 2009, 09:27 AM
Somehow they seem to think that just because Apple let it slip by in previous versions, they should still let it slip by.

Honestly, this is like saying "Our old version sometimes crashed but Apple never caught it in the review process so they approved it. This version crashes just as much but by our bad luck (or loss of good luck,) Apple caught it this time around so it was rejected."

I'd say an hourglass makes sense for a new icon.

... and to be honest, it is a little ridiculous on Apple's part.

mavis
Aug 28, 2009, 09:29 AM
The real question is how does a clock really represent recent calls or history? :rolleyes:

Makes more sense being used in Convertbot
Exactly.

This is starting to get absurd (all of these silly rejections, I mean) ... I just hope Apple's poor management of the App Store continues to drive developers to Cydia.

Buschmaster
Aug 28, 2009, 09:35 AM
The real question is how does a clock really represent recent calls or history? :rolleyes:

Makes more sense being used in Convertbot
You don't understand how a clock can be related to events that happened in recent history?

GoCubsGo
Aug 28, 2009, 09:37 AM
You don't understand how a clock can be related to events that happened in recent history?

I believe he does and he believes it should be in the app that was rejected (or the update) not "recent calls".

Just change the icon a bit and resubmit. It is too great of an app not to have.

ArtOfWarfare
Aug 28, 2009, 09:41 AM
The real question is how does a clock really represent recent calls or history? :rolleyes:

Makes more sense being used in Convertbot

I'd love to hear your suggestion for a simple icon that represents history.

Honestly, I've never seen any other icon used to represent history. It's used in Safari. It's used in Firefox (granted, the icon in Firefox depicts the time as being 4:00 rather than 3:00.)

Do you really have a better suggestion or are you just trying to whine about how Apple is doing everything wrong? Maybe you'd rather swap to some other phone then?

BeyondtheTech
Aug 28, 2009, 09:59 AM
Perhaps if the depicted time of 3 o'clock was changed to say, 4:45?

iTeleport
Aug 28, 2009, 10:00 AM
What absolute idiots Apple has working for them.

The icon looks similar, but it's certainly not the same. And in the context of a 'conversion' app I think it's fairly obvious what it means. Apple needs to relax its policies already - it really is leaving a sour taste in my mouth.

There are many apps using clock icons. Convertbot should not step down on this one. If they use an hourglass then this would have confused me more since I associate an hourglass with cooking.

I really don't know where Apple gets off on telling people how to design their apps. A lot of these devs are hard working and trying to make a living and Apple is making this hell. Why should a dev be tense and nervous about receiving Apple's approval when an App should just be out there? Devs should be scared about whether people like and buy the App first and foremost.

I for one cannot wait until the App store is set free or Apple is forced by regulators to allow an "open source" App store.

DavidLeblond
Aug 28, 2009, 10:02 AM
One of my apps was rejected once for an icon that had been there for the previous 12 versions. At times I almost feel like resubmitting the same thing after a rejection to see if a different tester gets it and slips it through. :p

iTeleport
Aug 28, 2009, 10:02 AM
Perhaps if the depicted time of 3 o'clock was changed to say, 4:45?

From a design point of view 4.45 is just ugly. The only alternative is possibly 9.00 - although that looks a little wrong compared to 3.00.

Unspoken Demise
Aug 28, 2009, 10:02 AM
I'd love to hear your suggestion for a simple icon that represents history.


A picture of Abraham Lincoln dancing like a robot.

ouimetnick
Aug 28, 2009, 10:02 AM
Maybe Cydia will appear on the App Store and get approved with d different icon. Then the updated version of Cydia with the old icon gets submitted and re-jected and then Cydia get pulled from the App Store.
It would be funny if Cydia appeared in the App Store.

TitoC
Aug 28, 2009, 10:03 AM
It does seem a bit ridiculous! But it also wouldn't take much to change it and get a "passing" grade from Apple. Here's a suggestion. Either:

http://liquidoak.com/fun/clocks.jpg

(A) Change the small hand location OR

(B) Make it a stopwatch OR

(C) Add some highlight color to a time span.

There, job done. Everybody happy? Hell, Convertbot can even have these icon samples. I don't care, just don't take my Convertbot away. I love it too much.

Can Apple get on to some serious App reviews now? Come on.

admanimal
Aug 28, 2009, 10:08 AM
One of my apps was rejected once for an icon that had been there for the previous 12 versions. At times I almost feel like resubmitting the same thing after a rejection to see if a different tester gets it and slips it through. :p

I had the exact same thing happen. The worst part was that they sent me a screen shot that had 7 different icons in it, and wouldn't even tell me which one was the issue. There were at least two icons that were vaguely similar to Apple's, although none were identical.

madog
Aug 28, 2009, 10:09 AM
From a design point of view 4.45 is just ugly. The only alternative is possibly 9.00 - although that looks a little wrong compared to 3.00.

Isn't the (admittedly stupid) "rule" of displaying a watch supposed to be
~10:15 so the hands look like a smiley? Incidentally, you won't ever see a clock in an advertisement displaying the opposite, with the hands angled downwards.

tabasco70
Aug 28, 2009, 10:12 AM
Well they can just change the positions of the hands, and change it a little. Maybe add a button at the top so that it looks like a stopwatch.

zombitronic
Aug 28, 2009, 10:13 AM
The icon looks similar, but it's certainly not the same.

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/08/28/094742-convertbot-rejection_500.jpg

It looks the same to me.

Bubba Satori
Aug 28, 2009, 10:55 AM
I'm sorry, this is absolutely insane. The apps approval department is a genuine asylum. Absurd, anal retentive, control freaks. Sad.

Scooterman1
Aug 28, 2009, 10:58 AM
Just all the more reason for another company to come up with a better alternative to the iPhone.
The iPhone is great, but Apples iron claw rule may eventually be it's demise.

iPhone 62S
Aug 28, 2009, 11:00 AM
Oh come on, it's not like people will go into the app and think "hey, this converter must be showing my phone history!" is it? Idiots.

Slurpy2k8
Aug 28, 2009, 11:23 AM
Fair enough. It is pretty much the exact same icon.

They should just move the hands and put a little knob on top like a stopwatch.

'Fair enough'- are you ****ing serious????

Thats not the app icon, its an icon for one of the conversions WITHIN the app. This is the one of the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Thats a pretty universal icon for time, and to see it, you'll need to purchase the app then fire up the program.

This makes no sense whatsoever. What a ****ed up decision by Apple.

People who are saying, 'whats the big deal, they can just change the icon' aren't getting the point. The point is that an app can be rejected for something so incredibly absurd assinine, something that has no chance to harm the user or Apple.

MacFly123
Aug 28, 2009, 11:38 AM
Fair enough. It is pretty much the exact same icon.

They should just move the hands and put a little knob on top like a stopwatch.

Sorry Apple, I just think you are being dumb about this. :rolleyes:

leandromp
Aug 28, 2009, 11:39 AM
I cannot believe u guys are complaining about this.

Their using the same icon!, something that apple created!
i would have done the same thing!!

This "company" or developers just want attention to their apps! there's no reason to be complaining about one stupid icon, that clearly you didn't created and when the reason for the rejection is totally their fault.

So, stop whining and do your own thing.

iPhone 62S
Aug 28, 2009, 11:40 AM
I cannot believe u guys are complaining about this.

Their using the same icon!, something that apple created!
i would have done the same thing!!

This "company" or developers just want attention to their apps! because there's no reason to be complaining about one stupid icon, that clearly you didn't created and when the reason for the rejection is totally their fault.

So, stop whining and do your own thing.

It's a clock, unless Apple owns the rights to clocks then you are talking crap.

leandromp
Aug 28, 2009, 11:54 AM
It's a clock, unless Apple owns the rights to clocks then you are talking crap.

Oh trust me, is not about the clock anymore, that's the last thing your guys are thinking about right now.., is about the "rejection" and "how stupid apple is cause of it".. that's all you guys do with this kinds of thread, even when is the developers fault, which bdw, is the case.

Nobody cares about the damn icon or the app, is all about complaining because they got rejected. I'm not defending apple, but i just hate to read all of your comments sometimes. If apple didn't have those poor 40 employees approving the apps, you were the first ones saying the "App store is not secure", "my phone is acting very slow, do i have a virus"? kinda of thread and all that BS.

Those people are there for a reason. If you don't like it, then get the G1 and all those crappy apps and the (malware?) that was wondering around a few months ago...

it could be a frikin (.)! Is like if i took a pen from my friend without his permission and he's asking for the pen back, and i'll start whining and complaining cause he wanted it back. Is not yours!

Are the developers too lazy to make their own clock?
you can say whatever you want about my opinion, but it is what it is, MY OPINION!

sachamun
Aug 28, 2009, 12:06 PM
I think a lot of the comments here miss the real issue.

The issue isn't about an icon's design or it's intended use.

It's about Apple denying developers (and ultimately their users) the right to choose how they use their device. The app store reviewers are not stupid at all - they are simply following strict guidelines put forward by their employer, and therefor doing their job.

I don't deny that Apple has had to make a tough decision regarding app filtering - with no filtering at all there could be some tricky issues to deal with in terms of their image - which is, of course, a bug part of what you're buying when you buy an Apple product. If an app doesn't fit into their scheme of how users should perceive Apple, they deny it access and therefor deny it the ability to be associated with their brand.
(I think branding is rather evil but that's another story...)

But isn't freedom what shaped the internet and forced it to grow into the intelligent network it is now? The same can be said of any type of community. If the internet itself were a private club (as the iPhone is - you must follow Apple's rules), we would rely entirely upon the owners and rule-makers on providing solutions to the inevitable problems stemming from such a massive network. The only solution for the internet was to free it and allow it to be inherently open-source. The only real solution for Apple and their developer community is, no - not changing the clock to read 9 o'clock or 5:45 - but following the same principles that all members of successful communities do - agree not to hurt each other then agree to leave each other alone and live as you wish.
The rest sorts itself out:

If you meet someone in public and they start annoying you with stupid BS non-stop form the get go, you probably politely excuse yourself at some point and go elsewhere. You don't kill them simply because they don't fit in with your scheme of things (oh i've wanted to). If they steal your wallet or start getting violent, you'd probably call for help and people would usually help you. The same would go for the app store community - if you don't like an app or it's truly confusing, you can simply not use it or make a suggestion to the dev, but if it's truly harmful and therefor worth 'filtering', a community sorts it out pretty quickly.

Bah, I just finished work and it's 3am - I don't see the point in typing more.
Yes I have an iPhone and a Mac so I'm a giant hypocrite anyway.

kmcrawford
Aug 28, 2009, 12:16 PM
I've had an app rejected for the same reason. But fair enough, their icon means one thing and my icon (looks the same) means another. It's all about consistency within their device. Apple wants their device to be the easiest to use and understand, and they wouldn't want developers confusing their users.

ratbatblue
Aug 28, 2009, 12:20 PM
This is lunacy, of course. But that's nothing new for the App Store.

Fikester
Aug 28, 2009, 12:27 PM
Exactly, and here's my thing about this. Does Apple think we're idiots and think we are going to BUY a converter app and see a clock icon and think, hmmm, maybe I can look at my previous calls. DOH! I can't.

If Apple wants to reject apps they can, it is there prerogative, but give a little better explanation then throwing its customers under the bus like they have here. I love Apple, and will continue to, but this is getting a little out of hand.

Just my 1 1/2 cents.

Oh come on, it's not like people will go into the app and think "hey, this converter must be showing my phone history!" is it? Idiots.

admanimal
Aug 28, 2009, 12:32 PM
Speaking from experience, the most annoying part about these types of rejections isn't necessarily that Apple has a problem with an icon, it's that they have a problem with an icon that has been in the app for a long time already.

I have been in a situation where a critical update to my app was delayed because Apple all of a sudden decided that one of my icons, which had been in the app for 4 months and through at least 10 reviews, was too similar to one of their icons. And it's not like these icons are hidden somewhere that the previous reviewers wouldn't notice.

I know it sounds like developers are all whiny little babies (and some are), but I think it's hard to appreciate how frustrating this kind of thing is until you have put long hours into developing an app.

Spades
Aug 28, 2009, 12:35 PM
Apple wants their device to be the easiest to use and understand, and they wouldn't want developers confusing their users.

And what icon would be more obvious for time than a clock? Changing it to something else will probably be more confusing.

lucasgladding
Aug 28, 2009, 01:01 PM
I feel sorry for anyone working for Apple with the App Review team. While approval process could be faster and much more transparent, I am generally quite happy with it. The team deserves much more credit than it has been given.

In my opinion, the refusal here is completely justified. Apple is not claiming legal rights to the icon, they are simply enforcing the convention within the OS. If Tapbots had used the same icon to show recent conversions, I suspect the update would have been accepted without incident.

Personally, I think Tapbots understands the concern and is simply grabbing attention here. I have my fingers crossed that my next update will be rejected - it would be great publicity.

The second paragraph in the blog post from Tapbots is the most frustrating in my mind. Is Tapbots wasting the review team's time with questions like this? Is my next update being delayed because other developers like to be difficult for the sake of being difficult. Any clock icon, regardless of the time, could be mistaken for the history icon.

Until developers begin giving Apple the benefit of the doubt, all suggestions will be taken with a grain of salt.

creator2456
Aug 28, 2009, 01:06 PM
They should just move the hands and put a little knob on top like a stopwatch.

The way Apple has been going, they would reject that icon for being too similar to Safari's icon :D

iPhone 62S
Aug 28, 2009, 01:07 PM
Oh trust me, is not about the clock anymore, that's the last thing your guys are thinking about right now.., is about the "rejection" and "how stupid apple is cause of it".. that's all you guys do with this kinds of thread, even when is the developers fault, which bdw, is the case.

Nobody cares about the damn icon or the app, is all about complaining because they got rejected. I'm not defending apple, but i just hate to read all of your comments sometimes. If apple didn't have those poor 40 employees approving the apps, you were the first ones saying the "App store is not secure", "my phone is acting very slow, do i have a virus"? kinda of thread and all that BS.

Those people are there for a reason. If you don't like it, then get the G1 and all those crappy apps and the (malware?) that was wondering around a few months ago...

it could be a frikin (.)! Is like if i took a pen from my friend without his permission and he's asking for the pen back, and i'll start whining and complaining cause he wanted it back. Is not yours!

Are the developers too lazy to make their own clock?
you can say whatever you want about my opinion, but it is what it is, MY OPINION!

While it is good that Apple keeps the App Store secure by checking what goes up on there, it's mad the stupid things they reject apps for, and this is a good example of that.

In what way would having a clock icon like Apple's one for the phone history icon equate to the converter app being malware, or equate to people on the forum thinking it was?

Yes they may have copied where Apple put the hands of the clock, but Apple didn't say it was a infringement issue, they said the issue was people might get confused by the fact the icon was similar, which is just utterly stupid.

lowbatteries
Aug 28, 2009, 01:09 PM
It's a clock, unless Apple owns the rights to clocks then you are talking crap.

Um, its not a clock, it's an icon. Apple doesn't own "lines" or "circles" or "colors" either, but they own this icon. They created and own this representation of a clock.

However, that isn't the issue. That icon has come to represent "recent" or "history" in both OS X and the iPhone, and having a blanket rule to not let people give standard icons new meaning is perfectly fine with me.

OS X and the iPhone are so nice to use partly because of Apple's stringent HIG. I wish more apps (especially MotionX GPS) adhered to it.

Since this app is a conversion tool, I think a stopwatch would make more sense, since its actually a tool for measuring time. Clocks just tell you what time it is now.

rstansby
Aug 28, 2009, 01:09 PM
This seems reasonable. It won't be hard for the developer to change the icon.

iPhone 62S
Aug 28, 2009, 01:11 PM
Um, its not a clock, it's an icon. Apple doesn't own "lines" or "circles" or "colors" either, but they own this icon. They created and own this representation of a clock.

However, that isn't the issue. That icon has come to represent "recent" or "history" in both OS X and the iPhone, and having a blanket rule to not let people give standard icons new meaning is perfectly fine with me.

OS X and the iPhone are so nice to use partly because of Apple's stringent HIG. I wish more apps (especially MotionX GPS) adhered to it.

Since this app is a conversion tool, I think a stopwatch would make more sense, since its actually a tool for measuring time. Clocks just tell you what time it is now.

Refer to the last paragraph of my post above yours.

lowbatteries
Aug 28, 2009, 01:13 PM
Speaking from experience, the most annoying part about these types of rejections isn't necessarily that Apple has a problem with an icon, it's that they have a problem with an icon that has been in the app for a long time already.

I have been in a situation where a critical update to my app was delayed because Apple all of a sudden decided that one of my icons, which had been in the app for 4 months and through at least 10 reviews, was too similar to one of their icons. And it's not like these icons are hidden somewhere that the previous reviewers wouldn't notice.

I know it sounds like developers are all whiny little babies (and some are), but I think it's hard to appreciate how frustrating this kind of thing is until you have put long hours into developing an app.

This I agree with. Apple should learn not to backpedal - if you saw something and approved it, you can't just decide NOT to approve the same exact thing later. Heck, they could have approved this app and still let the developer know they needed to change their icon before the next update.

What if this was a critical bug fix? Apple would be hurting users as much as developers here.

.:R2theT
Aug 28, 2009, 01:17 PM
To the people saying that Apple should have caught this earlier: Perhaps, but these are just people working to approve these apps. People make mistakes. A bigger mistake, generally, is to let something continue incorrectly once a error has been identified.

To the people saying that Apple's process is too draconian: Don't develop for Apple's ecosystem then.


I personally like the fact that Apple pays attention to these little details. My experience is that it is all the little details that brings things together as a whole. Apple, in general, does an exceptional job in that arena.

lowbatteries
Aug 28, 2009, 01:21 PM
Refer to the last paragraph of my post above yours.

Which was:


Yes they may have copied where Apple put the hands of the clock, but Apple didn't say it was a infringement issue, they said the issue was people might get confused by the fact the icon was similar, which is just utterly stupid.

I completely disagree with your last paragraph. Identical icons meaning different things introduces confusion. I just pulled out convertbot on my phone, and looking at it I could definitely see how the icon, in this instance, might make you think "recent conversions". In fact, that might even be a cool feature for convertbot to add ...

iPhone 62S
Aug 28, 2009, 01:26 PM
I completely disagree with your last paragraph. Identical icons meaning different things introduces confusion. I just pulled out convertbot on my phone, and looking at it I could definitely see how the icon, in this instance, might make you think "recent conversions". In fact, that might even be a cool feature for convertbot to add ...

So you seriously think you'd have opened a converter app and thought it showed your recent calls? Honestly?

You're only noticing it now because you've read the article, if you haden't you wouldn't have given that icon a second thought, much less thought it showed recent calls.

53buick
Aug 28, 2009, 01:35 PM
what about a sundial?

lowbatteries
Aug 28, 2009, 01:47 PM
So you seriously think you'd have opened a converter app and thought it showed your recent calls? Honestly?

You're only noticing it now because you've read the article, if you haden't you wouldn't have given that icon a second thought, much less thought it showed recent calls.

Who said anything about "recent calls"? Put on your reading glasses, please, I said "recent conversions". Which makes sense - app that does conversions plus icon that means "recent" = "recent conversions".

And "recent" is what this icon means everywhere it appears. Short sampling of apps that use it:


Safari on OS X
Safari on iPhone (in history icon)
Phone (recent calls)
Youtube (recent videos)
Skype (recent calls)
Cydia (recent changes)


So, their is a clear consensus that this icon means "recent". Convertbot has no "recent" feature so they shouldn't use this icon. Steal the Stopwatch icon from the Clock app.

Eso
Aug 28, 2009, 01:50 PM
I completely disagree with your last paragraph. Identical icons meaning different things introduces confusion. I just pulled out convertbot on my phone, and looking at it I could definitely see how the icon, in this instance, might make you think "recent conversions". In fact, that might even be a cool feature for convertbot to add ...

I also concur, albiet for a different reason. In fact, I am probably the one that got this update rejected.

You see, I use ConvertBot in engineering to convert to SI units. Oftentimes, I will be using the app and think to myself, "Oh, I need to call one of the last numbers in my recent call history." I would become very frustrated when pressing the icon would bring up time conversions as opposed to launching the phone application and directing it to recent calls. It was so infuriating! I sent dozens of confused emails to Apple and demanded they resolve the issue with their OS.

I am glad that they have finally taken action. I just hope they look into the issue with 1Password not integrating properly with the phone app next. Everytime I dial a number in this app it doesn't initiate a phone call! It's so frustrating using this iPhone!

190875

lowbatteries
Aug 28, 2009, 02:04 PM
I also concur, albiet for a different reason. In fact, I am probably the one that got this update rejected.

You see, I use ConvertBot in engineering to convert to SI units. Oftentimes, I will be using the app and think to myself, "Oh, I need to call one of the last numbers in my recent call history." I would become very frustrated when pressing the icon would bring up time conversions as opposed to launching the phone application and directing it to recent calls. It was so infuriating! I sent dozens of confused emails to Apple and demanded they resolve the issue with their OS.

I am glad that they have finally taken action. I just hope they look into the issue with 1Password not integrating properly with the phone app next. Everytime I dial a number in this app it doesn't initiate a phone call! It's so frustrating using this iPhone!

190875

Again, this icon has absolutely nothing to do with the phone app, not sure why you've all latched onto that. That was just the example Apple happened to provide. The icon means "recent". As posted in the original post:

Convertbot 1.4 was rejected because our icon for Time is too similar to one of Apple's default resource icons for History/Recent. They say users might get confused that our Time category might mean History or Recent. Now I might be able to understand if this happened when we first submitted Convertbot, but there have been multiple releases already so why is this a show-stopper now?

I agree with Apple: the icon needs to change. I agree with the developer: why now?

leandromp
Aug 28, 2009, 02:20 PM
While it is good that Apple keeps the App Store secure by checking what goes up on there, it's mad the stupid things they reject apps for, and this is a good example of that.

In what way would having a clock icon like Apple's one for the phone history icon equate to the converter app being malware, or equate to people on the forum thinking it was?

Yes they may have copied where Apple put the hands of the clock, but Apple didn't say it was a infringement issue, they said the issue was people might get confused by the fact the icon was similar, which is just utterly stupid.

No, you misunderstood me. I said that people dislike the approval process of the app store and if the employees weren't there and apps just appear like on the G1, it would be mess and a lot of viruses and bad stuff, which is not a good thing neither for the iPhone or the customers.

People don't like to follow the rules. They want everything their way.

I love the app store and looking for new apps. The only complain that i have is waiting more then 2 weeks for a single update. If the app is launching for the first time is understandable... it takes a lot of testing, but waiting almost 2 weeks for the facebook update? that's ridiculous, but i understand the fact that there's only 40 people behind the approval/testing process and is not an easy thing to do.

macduke
Aug 28, 2009, 02:44 PM
AAHHHHH!!

I'm so frustrated. Every time I try to use the compass on my iPhone 3GS it opens up the internet. Then I tried the other (ugly brown) compass icon and it kept trying to get me to turn on my GPS location services. Why is the blue compass for internet and the brown compass for GPS?

I think the FCC and AT&T should reject the iPhone OS 3.0. I also think they should take 6-8 weeks to do so and not tell them why their phone isn't allowed to operate in the United States or what changes would grant them a license.

Eso
Aug 28, 2009, 02:55 PM
The icon means "recent".

The icon does not mean "recent". Icons don't mean anything - they simply represent something. Believe it or not, users can actually learn that similar icons represent different things in a different context.

lowbatteries
Aug 28, 2009, 03:08 PM
The icon does not mean "recent". Icons don't mean anything - they simply represent something. Believe it or not, users can actually learn that similar icons represent different things in a different context.

Well then I guess this icon "represents" a list of recent activity. That is the lexicon of this particular operating system. It is a well-defined and old OS X lexicon that predates even the iPhone.

This exact icon is in Apple's HIG and how it is to be used is clearly outlined:
http://developer.apple.com/iphone/library/documentation/userexperience/conceptual/mobilehig/SystemProvided/SystemProvided.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40006556-CH15-SW14

The docs say the icon is to be used to "Show the items accessed by the user within an application-defined period" or "Show history of user actions". The button in Convertbot does neither of these things, so they need to design their own icon instead of using Apple's.

Spades
Aug 28, 2009, 03:47 PM
There are people that really think users are incapable of understanding that an icon can have two different meanings in two different contexts? Do you also think that the average iPhone user is incapable of communicating with other human beings? After all, context-free natural languages aren't exactly common.

zacheryjensen
Aug 28, 2009, 04:01 PM
I'm seriously very bored of all the app store approval whining. There's no unexpected magical conspiracies here, it's a private garden. Get over it!

And besides, this is a perfect example of exactly what I want filtered out. Keep my UI consistent, keep the Apple experience. So what if it took a few updates for them to notice the problem? Doesn't mean it's not a problem.

mavis
Aug 28, 2009, 05:22 PM
Wirelessly posted (iPhone 3GS (White, 32GB): Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A341 Safari/528.16)

I'm seriously very bored of all the app store approval whining. There's no unexpected magical conspiracies here, it's a private garden. Get over it!

And besides, this is a perfect example of exactly what I want filtered out. Keep my UI consistent, keep the Apple experience. So what if it took a few updates for them to notice the problem? Doesn't mean it's not a problem.

A "private garden," huh?Wasn't it Steve Jobs who was whining about mobile carriers' "walled gardens" just a few years ago? I guess it's bad unless it's Apple being the control freak. :rolleyes:

Bubba Satori
Aug 28, 2009, 05:41 PM
I'm seriously very bored of all the app store approval whining. There's no unexpected magical conspiracies here, it's a private garden.

Private garden ? Wow ! :eek: I guess every cult needs one.

Andy-V
Aug 28, 2009, 06:38 PM
If I see a clock icon with no lable I instantly think of 'time' or anything related to that area. And if someone presses that button and it's not what they expected, why is that an issue? Oh no I pressed that button and it didn't do what I thought it would! Precious seconds of my life have been wasted!

It's not an issue. And it's without a doubt not worthy of app-store rejection.

cdinca
Aug 28, 2009, 07:52 PM
When did everyone become such whiners!!!??? I blame Twitter for creating a generation of narcissistic cry babies.

mavis
Aug 28, 2009, 08:31 PM
When did everyone become such whiners!!!??? I blame Twitter for creating a generation of narcissistic cry babies.Would you be referring to Apple's whining (OMGWTFLOLZ, that generic clock glyph shouldn't mean "time" on the iPhone, it should mean "history/recent" ONLY, newbz.) or to the whining from iPhone owners who wish Apple wasn't so domineering, especially with utterly trivial matters like this? Either way, I don't blame twitter. Generation Me has been around much longer than that. ;)

simsandwhich
Aug 28, 2009, 08:53 PM
This is just ridiculous. Apple has no right whatsoever to 12:00 analogue clock face. It's such a basic, staple design.

The whole point of the SDK is to make Apps that work 100% with the iPhone platform, and a part of that is having the same basic UI across all apps wherever possible. Apple is working part way against this with their "approval" team. :mad:

simsandwhich
Aug 28, 2009, 08:54 PM
Wirelessly posted (iPhone 3GS (White, 32GB): Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A341 Safari/528.16)



A "private garden," huh?Wasn't it Steve Jobs who was whining about mobile carriers' "walled gardens" just a few years ago? I guess it's bad unless it's Apple being the control freak. :rolleyes:

Case in point. Apple is thinking only of Apple here, not the 50 million users of the iPhone OS platform.

It may only be a little, tiny image, but it's just another ridiculous action from Apple with their notorious App "Approval" system.

SpaceJello
Aug 28, 2009, 10:23 PM
iPhone's application approval process has been a bit convoluted at times.

However, having read the iPhone Human Interface Guideline, anyone who has ever taken a course in marketing, worked in design, ergonomics, user inferface, or branding knows the importance of consistencies.

Think of this situation as "brand" policing.

Whether you agree or not, the clock icon has been explicitly stated as a iPhone systems icon developers should respect. Just as Starbucks headquarters would prevent any of its store managers from adding a extra starfishes in its mermaid logo, similarly, this is an act of Apple telling a developer to stay within its interface guidelines.

Its a case of "These are the guidelines, don't violate them."

lowbatteries
Aug 28, 2009, 11:12 PM
iPhone's application approval process has been a bit convoluted at times.

However, having read the iPhone Human Interface Guideline, anyone who has ever taken a course in marketing, worked in design, ergonomics, user inferface, or branding knows the importance of consistencies.

Think of this situation as "brand" policing.

Whether you agree or not, the clock icon has been explicitly stated as a iPhone systems icon developers should respect. Just as Starbucks headquarters would prevent any of its store managers from adding a extra starfishes in its mermaid logo, similarly, this is an act of Apple telling a developer to stay within its interface guidelines.

Its a case of "These are the guidelines, don't violate them."

You put this better than I could have. Apple let the ecosystem for the iPhone grow fast and crazy, and they are trying to reign it in a bit to create a better user experience.

The Apple HIG and the fact that developers actually follow it are what gives Macs such a wonderful software ecosystem - random freeware for the Mac just has higher quality than random freeware for Windows, for example. A huge part of this is consistency. Icons and shortcuts across apps and in different contexts still work the same.

This wouldn't be the case with the iPhone if Apple didn't have a little bit of a heavy hand.

Sure, users could learn that different icons and actions mean different things in different apps - but why should they have to?

That said: a stamp of approval for this app update and a side note telling them to update the icon for the next release would have been much nicer all around.

netdoc66
Aug 28, 2009, 11:19 PM
Apple's fracking up bad.

agkm800
Aug 29, 2009, 12:14 AM
Apple really is starting to sound and act more like an authoritarian government.

SpaceJello
Aug 29, 2009, 12:16 AM
You put this better than I could have. Apple let the ecosystem for the iPhone grow fast and crazy, and they are trying to reign it in a bit to create a better user experience.

The Apple HIG and the fact that developers actually follow it are what gives Macs such a wonderful software ecosystem - random freeware for the Mac just has higher quality than random freeware for Windows, for example. A huge part of this is consistency. Icons and shortcuts across apps and in different contexts still work the same.

This wouldn't be the case with the iPhone if Apple didn't have a little bit of a heavy hand.

Sure, users could learn that different icons and actions mean different things in different apps - but why should they have to?

That said: a stamp of approval for this app update and a side note telling them to update the icon for the next release would have been much nicer all around.

I definitely agree Apple could have been a bit more transparent in their app rejections.

But many users are quick to cry foul over these app rejections by Apple too unfortunately.

The iPhone is attracting MANY first time mac/cocoa developers and they haven't got the slightest clue to the beauty/bareness/strict/simple Apple design philosophy.

Just take a look at the iPhone finance apps offering. I can't help but to cry seeing some of them... definitely something from the PC world. :p

WilliamG
Aug 29, 2009, 02:03 AM
Covertbot sucks anyway. Everyone should switch to "Convert," (pun intended) for a real experience. I don't know how anyone finds the Convertbot interface intuitive...

Eraserhead
Aug 29, 2009, 08:02 AM
There are people that really think users are incapable of understanding that an icon can have two different meanings in two different contexts? Do you also think that the average iPhone user is incapable of communicating with other human beings? After all, context-free natural languages aren't exactly common.

Its part of ease of use that the same icon should mean the same thing in different applications.

Imagine if I used + to mean delete in an application, two different meanings is OK after all ;) (I admit this is an extreme example).

Spades
Aug 29, 2009, 08:37 AM
Its part of ease of use that the same icon should mean the same thing in different applications.

If this icon is only allowed to have one meaning, then it should mean "time", not "history". Clock = time to everybody but Apple it seems.

lowbatteries
Aug 29, 2009, 11:43 PM
If this icon is only allowed to have one meaning, then it should mean "time", not "history". Clock = time to everybody but Apple it seems.

Funny - Microsoft, Opera, and Mozilla all use a clock for the history icon. So it seems clock = history to everyone but knee-jerk-reaction MacRumors posters.

kornyboy
Aug 30, 2009, 08:30 AM
Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A400 Safari/528.16)

I think that a lot of these request from Apple recently are a bit silly. It almost seems like they are throwing their weight around just because they can.

leonstafford
Aug 30, 2009, 11:33 AM
I just got hungry and licked the little apple on the back of my iPhone.

It didn't really taste as much of apple as I had hoped...

I wish Apple would put a little ass icon on the back of the iPhone because that's what it tasted more like...

Dudes, this company with the convertbot app have been selling plenty of copies for long enough. Apple and MR just gave them oodles of new customers through publicity and all their business partner, the big A, is asking is to modify an icon...

If they don't like it FO to Android and see how much money their freedom is worth :P

I just hope they don't start censoring fart apps to make the sounds more wet and juicy....

mavis
Aug 30, 2009, 03:43 PM
Funny - Microsoft, Opera, and Mozilla all use a clock for the history icon. So it seems clock = history to everyone but knee-jerk-reaction MacRumors posters.I guess you should let Apple know about this, because there's a clock icon right on my springboard that doesn't have anything to do with history.

chimerical
Aug 31, 2009, 01:46 AM
Ridiculous. As if Apple somehow has ownership over that time icon. However, the hourglass icon as proposed in the comments would work. But still, this is such a perversion of what the App Store was founded upon.

This has to do with consistency in the interface, and really has very little to do with the app store itself. Any mishaps in the experience of an app on their platform translates into a bad experience on the phone in general. How ever the icon is being used on other platforms doesn't matter because it's not associated with the experience on the iPhone platform.

chimerical
Aug 31, 2009, 01:47 AM
Yes, finally someone with some sanity here. The knee-jerk reaction around here will probably be a mob cry against the app store. The app store has plenty of issues, but in this particular case, their concern makes sense, and the only reason why it was okay in the past was because they hadn't noticed it.

Somehow they seem to think that just because Apple let it slip by in previous versions, they should still let it slip by.

Honestly, this is like saying "Our old version sometimes crashed but Apple never caught it in the review process so they approved it. This version crashes just as much but by our bad luck (or loss of good luck,) Apple caught it this time around so it was rejected."

I'd say an hourglass makes sense for a new icon.

... and to be honest, it is a little ridiculous on Apple's part.

Eso
Aug 31, 2009, 02:58 AM
Any mishaps in the experience of an app on their platform translates into a bad experience on the phone in general.

Many people seem to love this argument; I love how stupid it is.

Only an idiot will have a poor experience with an app and blame the platform, not the developers of the app. Only an idiot, when continually confused by an icon in ConvertBot that they think is supposed to indicate history instead of time (and can't learn otherwise), will blame the iPhone instead of giving the app a poor rating and finding an alternative.

chimerical
Aug 31, 2009, 04:40 AM
Many people seem to love this argument; I love how stupid it is.

Only an idiot will have a poor experience with an app and blame the platform, not the developers of the app. Only an idiot, when continually confused by an icon in ConvertBot that they think is supposed to indicate history instead of time (and can't learn otherwise), will blame the iPhone instead of giving the app a poor rating and finding an alternative.

Unfortunately, these "idiots" happen to comprise a sizable portion of the users out there, and they will place blame Apple in general when an app provides a less than ideal experience. You can ignore that segment of the population entirely, but Apple doesn't seem to be interested in doing that.

southernpaws
Aug 31, 2009, 10:15 AM
people love their fabricated drama.

they're not preventing the app from being sold. they're not pulling it from the store.

they simply sent it back for a minor tweak.

Maybe they didn't catch it before. Maybe they did catch it and thought it was too minor to keep the app from being posted to the app store, thereby costing the developer money.

in this instance, the developer is not losing any money. They were simply asked to tweak the app.

And granted, there's not a lot of idiots who would confuse that icon in CB for the icon as it appears elsewhere. But when you're running a very visual platform, you want to retain distinction throughout, and consistently.

This is not a reason for an uproar.

martin.treiber
Sep 1, 2009, 08:46 AM
I have a similar story to tell. I've implemented a bluetooth data sharing tool for the iPhone called iSENDu (see http://www.ikangai.com and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3-9pN9E93E).

It was rejected, because trademark infringements. Apple stated that the rectangles that were used to represent iPhones looked way too much "iPhone". The "iPhones" were composed of two rectangles (a black one and a white one) with inner and outer glow.

http://www.ikangai.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/mainscreen.png

The bizarre thing is that the application runs exclusively on iPhones and its sole purpose is the share data between iPhones... Why would anyone use a different symbol than an iPhone to represent this? And on top of that, wouldn't the use of different symbols (other than iPhones to represent iPhones) confuse the user?

Unspoken Demise
Sep 1, 2009, 08:48 AM
Um, I wonder if Apple knows that FML is using that icon too. :rolleyes:

TheNightPhoenix
Sep 12, 2009, 03:24 AM
The App has now been Approved, They just mirrored the image. :rolleyes:

mavis
Sep 12, 2009, 04:24 AM
The App has now been Approved, They just mirrored the image. :rolleyes:

Apparently 9:00 is acceptable but 3:00 is not. :rolleyes:

iPhone 62S
Sep 12, 2009, 04:34 AM
The App has now been Approved, They just mirrored the image. :rolleyes:

The funniest thing is, most users won't notice the difference between the mirrored icon and original one wayway!

jweinraub
Sep 18, 2009, 08:47 AM
Fair enough. It is pretty much the exact same icon.

They should just move the hands and put a little knob on top like a stopwatch.

Fair enough? You kidding, right? It is just a clock set to 3:00! I don't think anyone and their mother would think recent history when they are doing conversions. I would suspect people would be more confused when they see a clock and think history in Apples own UI.

I think rejections like this is a very big motivation as to why people want to jail-break their phones. Apple should not be rejecting Apps based on icons or interface. Long as the program does what its advertised, not a virus, and does not contain anything illegal should be accepted. Period. That was what my assumption was when Steve mentioned the review process a few years back.

I still think there should be an alternative method for people that don't want to use the App Store at all. Just like on my BlackBerry, I don't need to use their appstore to purchase programs, I can buy them on websites and install it on my own. There should be an option that allows you to run unsigned code, if the enduser wishes. Virus or not.

I own my iPod Touch. I should be allowed to do what I want with it. Period.

mavis
Sep 18, 2009, 08:53 AM
I still think there should be an alternative method for people that don't want to use the App Store at all. Just like on my BlackBerry, I don't need to use their appstore to purchase programs, I can buy them on websites and install it on my own. There should be an option that allows you to run unsigned code, if the enduser wishes. Virus or not.

I own my iPod Touch. I should be allowed to do what I want with it. Period.
Just jailbreak it. Problem solved.