Some arguments are just wierd.

[Voltron]

I don't know where this should be properly posted or at all but trying to go to sleep tonight I keep running this conversation through my head. I don't know what to call it a metaphor, simile, whatever. Doesn't matter whatever I call it I'll be wrong. This isn't a real conversatin but how it feels like allot of these conversations have gone.


Voltron -- Well the Sun is up.

Mac -- I don't know where you get your facts from but the Sun most deffinitely isn't up.

Voltron -- sure it is, even a blind man could see it, its right there.

Mac -- Right there isn't up. Up is straight up above your head man, that most deffinitely not up maybe you should say what you really mean so people understand you.

Voltron -- ok fine the sun is at a 90 degree angle.

Mac -- What are you stupid or something? Anyone can tell that is a 75 degree angle, in fact I would call it a 75.325 degree angle and only a complete total idiot wouldn't see that.

Voltron -- ok for the sake of argument lets assume that its 12 noon. Now is it ok for me to say the sun is up?

WW -- Why you keep spreading your lies all the time in here. I'm getting sick and tired of reading your lies.

Voltron -- um what is it am I lieing about this time?

WW -- You don't live on the equator do you? either your lieing about the sun being straight up or your lieing about being in florida. Because only if you lived on the equator could the sun be straight up at noon. Thats it I'm not putting up with these lies anymore I'm going elsewhere where they don't lie like you.

eeek ok lets argue about the deffinition of is now.http://sharevana.com/forums/images/generalsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif

It seems we spend more time arguing over the trivial details and losing the bigger issues that actually matter.

BTW some might say I'm trolling here. I'm not, I'm using a metaphor to describe how allot of these arguments feel to me.

[Sun Baked]

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12935&stc=1

[skunk]

BTW some might say I'm trolling here. I'm not, I'm using a metaphor to describe how allot of these arguments feel to me.
I can see how they might. But it's getting better.

PS: Look, we've been through this "allot" business already. Concentrate. :D

[takao]

BTW some might say I'm trolling here. I'm not, I'm using a metaphor to describe how allot of these arguments feel to me.

well your mataphor is nice but let's look it more at this way:

actually the sun is up for you at the same time it can be down for somebody else ... a statement like "the sun is up" is subjective..from a objective point of view a person would have to sa "the sun is up for _me_" but what would be more correct: "the sun is up and down at the same time"
if you are sitting in a room without a window you can't say "the sun is up for _me_ at this moment" because you don't know... but if you sit in dark room you can say "the sun is up and down at the same time" ...
image the world not as something where yo ucan look at and decide... imagine it it as a completly closed room with a few little holes in the walls where you can look through but some have blue red orange or pink filters in front of the looking through holes...

some quotes for you please look at them with a historic background in mind:

"Men are nearly always willing to believe what they wish."
- Julius Caesar

"People never lie so much as after a hunt, during a war or before an
election."
-Otto Von Bismarck

"The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category."
- Adolph Hitler

"Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding."
- Albert Einstein

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.
Sir Winston Churchill

You are young, my son, and, as the years go by, time will change and even reverse many of your present opinions. Refrain therefore awhile from setting yourself up as a judge of the highest matters.
Plato

[mactastic]

Wow... getting personal in here isn't it?

[LeeTom]

I agree Voltron, but (and I mean this in the most honest non-vicious way), I feel that in my mind, you are playing the role of WW and Mac, and others are playing your "Voltron" role. I think it is more the wide gap between our point of views, that in the end, we can't imagine thinking what the other person is thinking, and both assume their points of view to be obvious.

My case in point, for you, is your denouncement of Fahrenheit 9/11, calling discussion about it a "wasted thread" when, not only have you not seen it, but refuse to see it. In fact, I can't think of a better metaphor than someone closing their eyes at the sun, than not watching a movie called Fahrenheit 9/11.

Anyways, not trying to pick you out to spite you, just noting that I think it goes both ways, and it's something we all need to work on. Our differences pale in comparison to our similarities, and I hope our words can start to reflect that.

Lee Tom

[Voltron]

My case in point, for you, is your denouncement of Fahrenheit 9/11, calling discussion about it a "wasted thread" when, not only have you not seen it, but refuse to see it. In fact, I can't think of a better metaphor than someone closing their eyes at the sun, than not watching a movie called Fahrenheit 9/11.


Lee Tom
I don't watch 99% of the movies they make now days. Fahrenheit is just one of them. I've heard enough about the movie to know I have no interest in it.

[mactastic]

Even if the rest of your post has some validity this one is a gross mischaracterization of my posts.
Mac -- What are you stupid or something? Anyone can tell that is a 75 degree angle, in fact I would call it a 75.325 degree angle and only a complete total idiot wouldn't see that.

Please point to me ANYWHERE that I called you stupid, or an idiot.

What was that about hating how words get put in your mouth?

[LeeTom]

I don't watch 99% of the movies they make now days. Fahrenheit is just one of them. I've heard enough about the movie to know I have no interest in it.

Well, you have to see how this reminds me of your sun analogy. You are very interested in politics, and this is perhaps the most critical political expose in history, conceptually unprecedented.

My original point, however, was that we are refusing to look at each other's sides, and there's not one of us that doesn't stand to gain by opening our eyes to the other side's point of view a bit. It is important for us to find some common ground (besides just owning a computer by a certain company). Would you agree?

Lee Tom

[Voltron]

Even if the rest of your post has some validity this one is a gross mischaracterization of my posts.


Please point to me ANYWHERE that I called you stupid, or an idiot.

What was that about hating how words get put in your mouth?
Don't imply that I said you stated anything based on what I used in the example. Nothing in there was meant to imply that you specifically said anything specific at all, nor should you take it to mean yourself specifically either.

[mactastic]

Don't imply that I said you stated anything based on what I used in the example. Nothing in there was meant to imply that you specifically said anything specific at all, nor should you take it to mean yourself specifically either.


HELLO!!!! You use 'mac' as my pseudonym and then gave a one-sided retelling of an argument we were having!... Not very subtle of you.

BTW, who was WW refering too?

[Rower_CPU]

Probably wwworry...

Voltron, final warning - you have the opportunity to participate in constructive feedback in the rules thread but you decide instead to post this thinly veiled attack on those who disagree with you.

I've going to give you the opportunity to post in the rules thread rather than ban you immediately - any more posts that look at all like trolling and you're gone, for good.