NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL

[MacRumors]

The $599 NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL card that Apple introduced on Monday represents a significantly improved graphics card now available to Mac users.

Previously, the best card available to Mac users was the ATI Radeon 9800 XT which adds $300 to the cost of a build-to-order PowerMac G5. The new GeForce 6800 adds another $150 to that cost, but delivers significant performance boosts.

Tom's Hardware (http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/index.html) provides a review of the PC version of the card. The card appears to represent a generational jump rather than an incremental upgrade:

NVIDIA has seemingly pulled out all stops in an attempt to deliver cutting edge graphics with its GeForce 6800 Ultra. After gamers for too long have had to be content with mere incremental improvements to graphics performance, NVIDIA new card delivers a performance jump not seen for a long time. The device is also solidly engineered as well as insanely fast.

The specially engineered Mac version of the card also provides support for Dual DVI connectors -- providing support for the new 30" Apple Display. In fact, it comes with two Dual DVI connectors, allowing users to drive two 30" Apple Displays.

Halo Benchmarks (http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-40.html) at Tom's Hardware.

[AirUncleP]

All I'll need is a second job to pay for all this cool stuff. Or I guess I could what 2 years.

[mikeyredk]

as of right now the mac as the best consumer graphics card.(period)

[Veldek]

I already changed my order when I came back from work today. But now the delivery date was pushed back from August, 2nd to third week of August. :(

[g4cubed]

All I'll need is a second job to pay for all this cool stuff. Or I guess I could what 2 years.

Me too :D

[Veldek]

as of right now the mac as the best consumer graphics card.(period)

Well, it's not available until August, while the PC version is available in July.

[mikeyredk]

Well, it's not available until August, while the PC version is available in July.

don't spoil my fun :(

[Veldek]

don't spoil my fun :(

I hoped you would correct me by telling me why the Mac version is better. I obviously thought wrong.

[JustAGuy]

Hmm... just noticed this. The Cdn apple store has this beauty up for only $560 cdn for students. Now THAT's a discount.

[Update]: 560 is just the upgrade price from the stock ATI. The retail is 779, so less awesome. Oh well. Time to start saving pennies.

[CubaTBird]

Alienware has that card too, so you can't say best..... :rolleyes:

[mikeyredk]

I hoped you would correct me by telling me why the Mac version is better. I obviously thought wrong.

three words

dual dvi link. pc versions don't have it only mac version

[Veldek]

three words

dual dvi link. pc versions don't have it only mac version

That's exactly what I expected to hear from you. ;)

[3G4N]

three words

dual dvi link. pc versions don't have it only mac version

---Duped from another DDL thread---

nVidia's QuadroFX line has Dual DVI Linking, and should be able to power the 30". PCs had it before Macs did.

"dual DVI digital connectors drive the highest resolution digital displays available on the market. Dual-link DVI connector drives QUXGA-wide displays via a single connector."
"up to 2048x1536 per display or 3840x2400 for a single digital display"

---

From what little I've seen (and understand) the 30" has only one DVI connector cable, so how are you going to hook it up to both DVI ports?
I am almost positively sure that the 3840x2400 res above can be driven
from one DVI port. Fess up Brent.

[dguisinger]

---Duped from another DDL thread---

nVidia's QuadroFX line has Dual DVI Linking, and should be able to power the 30". PCs had it before Macs did.

"dual DVI digital connectors drive the highest resolution digital displays available on the market. Dual-link DVI connector drives QUXGA-wide displays via a single connector."
"up to 2048x1536 per display or 3840x2400 for a single digital display"

---

From what little I've seen (and understand) the 30" has only one DVI connector cable, so how are you going to hook it up to both DVI ports?
I am almost positively sure that the 3840x2400 res above can be driven
from one DVI port. Fess up Brent.

Dual-Link means two sets of DVI pins in the connector.... so it doesnt need two cables. The card has two ports, or four DVI streams, supporting upto 2 30" monitors.

[StinkyBritches]

Nice article here www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1728/

/me waits for PM G5 Rev.C with PCI Extreme slots, with TWO Nvidia 6800 Ultra (or newer) spanned with SLI, driving a 30" monitor. Just what I need for faster e-mail.

[HyperX]

So when is apple releasing HexaDVI capable of 10240*7680 to drive my 80" that will be released at Macworld Boston ;)

Personally I am waiting for Apple to Releaser the Imac G5 with Jumbotron.

(Sorry I needed the break the tension here... It couldn't be cut with a Ginsu!)

[pdpfilms]

I was looking at pictures from the WWDC of a G5 with the 6800 Ultra installed. Is it possible to install it complimentary to another card (such as the Radeon 9600? What are all the ADC owners going to do if they want to get a 30" display?

[Brent Turbo]

Brent,

No manufacturer would ever advertise a card capable of running two LCDs of x type if it couldn't do it at native resolution, they know they would be sued. That and besides the fact they had dual displays on display for public viewing, we know it works.

I had just never heard that they were running at full resolution. That's all I needed to know. I'm glad that it all worked out, despite the complete and utter misunderstanding over what "Dual Dual" meant. People thought I was saying that it didn't have dual link ports, or didn't have dual dual linke ports, or whatever. Too many duals in a row. I'm glad that it can do what they hint that it can do, that makes it an even greater product, which I was worried it would be crippled. For them to say "Runs at 2560 x 1600, or you can have two displays!" smacked of a marketing bait and switch, which is precisely the type of thing you'd expect from corporate America. Glad to see it wasn't.

Thanks,
B

[arn]

I had just never heard that they were running at full resolution. That's all I needed to know. I'm glad that it all worked out, despite the complete and utter misunderstanding over what "Dual Dual" meant. People thought I was saying that it didn't have dual link ports, or didn't have dual dual linke ports, or whatever. Too many duals in a row. I'm glad that it can do what they hint that it can do, that makes it an even greater product, which I was worried it would be crippled. For them to say "Runs at 2560 x 1600, or you can have two displays!" smacked of a marketing bait and switch, which is precisely the type of thing you'd expect from corporate America. Glad to see it wasn't.

Thanks,
B

Long (and repetitive) discussion about whether or not the GeForce 6800 can drive two 30" Monitors at full rez have been moved here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=77527

The short answer is. Yes, it can.

arn

[Brent Turbo]

http://home.sport.rr.com/mrmudbug/wwdc04/wwdc04-Pages/Image6.html

Just out of curiosity, on the dual 30" setup, all of the cables from each monitor's "breakout cable" are plugged into the back of the computer in some respect, however, one from each cable is bent down and going out of sight. What part of the cable is this? If you look at the other angles, you can see the firewire and usb portions are all plugged in...

[Laslo Panaflex]

http://home.sport.rr.com/mrmudbug/wwdc04/wwdc04-Pages/Image6.html

Just out of curiosity, on the dual 30" setup, all of the cables from each monitor's "breakout cable" are plugged into the back of the computer in some respect, however, one from each cable is bent down and going out of sight. What part of the cable is this? If you look at the other angles, you can see the firewire and usb portions are all plugged in...

Its the power cable that connects to a power brick under the desk.

[arn]

http://home.sport.rr.com/mrmudbug/wwdc04/wwdc04-Pages/Image6.html

Just out of curiosity, on the dual 30" setup, all of the cables from each monitor's "breakout cable" are plugged into the back of the computer in some respect, however, one from each cable is bent down and going out of sight. What part of the cable is this? If you look at the other angles, you can see the firewire and usb portions are all plugged in...

Probably Power. According to the keynote. They go into a Power Brick which then plugs into the wall.

arn

[Kingsfoil13]

Nice article here www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1728/

/me waits for PM G5 Rev.C with PCI Extreme slots, with TWO Nvidia 6800 Ultra (or newer) spanned with SLI, driving a 30" monitor. Just what I need for faster e-mail.

As far as I can see, two Ultras with SLI would drive FOUR 30" displays ... with the load on all four dynamically readjusted between the two cards.

Too bad you can't daisy-chain the Ultras indefinitely ... think X-grid in a GPU?

Or maybe I need to get rich first.

[kothrush]

Power Supply? Remember there is no ADC, so they need external Power source.

http://home.sport.rr.com/mrmudbug/wwdc04/wwdc04-Pages/Image6.html

Just out of curiosity, on the dual 30" setup, all of the cables from each monitor's "breakout cable" are plugged into the back of the computer in some respect, however, one from each cable is bent down and going out of sight. What part of the cable is this? If you look at the other angles, you can see the firewire and usb portions are all plugged in...

[Migs]

also, are there any other organs that I could live without and possibly sell to afford a dual 30" setup?

Well, after my wife leaves me upon buying 2 30" monitors I can think of one organ that will not be needed for a bit.....


Don't know a about a market for it though.

[famousshots]

I was wondering if this new card works with 17 inch studio displays or do you have to have the new displays to use it? Anyone know, Thanks

[jsw]

I was wondering if this new card works with 17 inch studio displays or do you have to have the new displays to use it? Anyone know, Thanks

It'll work just fine with it, but you'll need an adapter (if you don't have one already) to add power and USB to the DVI port coming out of the card.

But, seriously... a 6800 Ultra with a 17" monitor? Overkill, perhaps? ;-)

[Grimace]

If I wanted to get a 20" or 23" display - is there going to be any noticeable difference between the 9600XT, the 9800, and the Gforce for *normal* applications? Read normal is non-gaming, non-video editing.

[arn]

If I wanted to get a 20" or 23" display - is there going to be any noticeable difference between the 9600XT, the 9800, and the Gforce for *normal* applications? Read normal is non-gaming, non-video editing.

perhaps not with normal apps... but one thing to remember is that Core Image and Core Video will offload lots of video processing to the GPU on your video card. So that might make a difference in the long run once Tiger and other apps start using it.

arn

[Soire]

How much do you guys think I could sell a kidney for on the black market?

also, are there any other organs that I could live without and possibly sell to afford a dual 30" setup?

I already mentioned it, but in the past two weeks I've dropped roughly $5,000 of my own and other people's money to purchase:

2.5Ghz G5 (AE, BT, 250SATA)

250 Gig LaCie Triple Interface External HD

20" Aluminum Display

40 Gig iPod

The sad part is that not a single apple product is yet in my hands, and I won't likely see it for weeks.

Now I know what pain is. :(

[benpatient]

yes, it might, but don't spend 600 dollars on a "might"

just wait and see....the effective change in your world will be almost Nil if you get this card and don't either a.) need it for the 30" or b.) play modern 3d games.

[arn]

yes, it might, but don't spend 600 dollars on a "might"

just wait and see....the effective change in your world will be almost Nil if you get this card and don't either a.) need it for the 30" or b.) play modern 3d games.

Well, it's only $150 more if you were intending to get the ATI Radeon 9800 anyway.

arn

[jsw]

perhaps not with normal apps... but one thing to remember is that Core Image and Core Video will offload lots of video processing to the GPU on your video card. So that might make a difference in the long run once Tiger and other apps start using it.

arn

Thanks, arn. I was looking for something to hold onto to justify purchasing the 6800 for my Rev A G5. Hmmmm. Possible speed-up for Tiger. Sounds good enough for me. ** sound of pennies clinking into piggie bank... giant 60,000 penny piggie bank **

[whooleytoo]

yes, it might, but don't spend 600 dollars on a "might"

just wait and see....the effective change in your world will be almost Nil if you get this card and don't either a.) need it for the 30" or b.) play modern 3d games.

Well, it's a pretty safe "might".. ;)

With more and more being offloaded to the GPU, it's becoming an ever-increasingly important part of the perceived performance of Macs these days. Given the massive performance difference between this and previous Mac cards, it might even be worthwhile 'upgrading' to this card, and 'downgrading' your processor choice if buying a new Mac on a budget.

[HyperX]

Don't Forget.. There is Always Apple Credit from MBNA.

9.99% OAC 90 Days same as cash up to a 25,000 Credit Line!

All you need to Submit is a short application, 1 arm, 1 leg!

My Dream Setup was only 248$ a month WOOHOO ;P Except they wont give me a dime of credit till I pay off the 45k I owe other various banks!

[army_guy]

It isnt specialy engineered in the least, the board is electornicaly identical to the PC version the only difference being the BIOS and the resistors at the base to lock the card down into the MAC AGP slot sothat it doesnt function in a PC AGP slot. And of coarse the drivers are completly different.

As for the price its fine, its a bleedin edge video card in the $499 pricerange, also this is not the ULTRA version of the NV40 $599 etc..

[Trekkie]

...on one hand, I'm glad I held on because I'm ordering my dual 2.5 with the new nVidia card. On the other, I can't afford the monitor and the dual 2.5 at the same time.

Man I think I'd probably go insane with twin 30's on my desk. My wife put it in perspective when she pointed to our Toshiba 30" HDTV CRT we have downstairs and said something like 'that's as big as that isn't it?'

Going to hit the apple store next month so I can just see one and drool. Maybe if I get the dual g5 paid off I can then get the monitor :D

[jiggie2g]

as of right now the mac as the best consumer graphics card.(period)



NOPE , Sorry but that would have to the ATI Radeon X800XT Platinum Edition on PC only as of right now.

[mikeyredk]

NOPE , Sorry but that would have to the ATI Radeon X800XT Platinum Edition on PC only as of right now.

can it run 2 30" inch displays?

[jiggie2g]

can it run 2 30" inch displays?

It can if ATI want's it to and at better quality , all ATI need to do it add the Dual DVI to a mac version , and who's to say there won't be a Radeon X800XT PE DDL for mac.


Nvidia Geforce 6800 Ultra DDL fill rate is 6.4 Gpixels/sec

ATI Radeon X800XT PE fill rate is 8.3 Gpixels/sec

So you tell me if it can?

[daveL]

NOPE , Sorry but that would have to the ATI Radeon X800XT Platinum Edition on PC only as of right now.
Actually, it's more complicated than that. The ATI cards tend to focus on DirectX performance, while NVidia puts more of its energy into OpenGL performace. Since OS X uses OpenGL, the 6800 Ultra will tend to be the better choice than the X800 ATI card. If you read the X800 review on Tom's hardware you'll see the 6800 Ultra beats the X800 when the game is OpenGL-based. The 6800 Ultra also has a dedicated video processor, although the PC test driver didn't seem to be exploiting it.

In general, I think the 6800 Ultra will future-proof your G5 to a greater extent than the ATI cards. Just my opinion.

[jiggie2g]

Actually, it's more complicated than that. The ATI cards tend to focus on DirectX performance, while NVidia puts more of its energy into OpenGL performace. Since OS X uses OpenGL, the 6800 Ultra will tend to be the better choice than the X800 ATI card. If you read the X800 review on Tom's hardware you'll see the 6800 Ultra beats the X800 when the game is OpenGL-based. The 6800 Ultra also has a dedicated video processor, although the PC test driver didn't seem to be exploiting it.

In general, I think the 6800 Ultra will future-proof your G5 to a greater extent than the ATI cards. Just my opinion.

Nvidia makes thier 1st Good mac card since the Geforce 4 Ti (god was that a long time ago) and now every body wants 2 ride the band wagon. sorry ATI has been the performance leader for nearly 3yrs now and they still are , look at the power requirements on the Nvidia card 450W vs. 350W, pray it will not blow ur Power Supply. lets not forget the Jet Engine sounding Geforce FX 5800.

I don't trust Nvidia anymore with thier rigged benchmarks(they've been busted twice for this , they are just as phoney as Steve'O and his Photoshop tests.) I think they are the next 3Dfx and will eventually get swallowed up by ATI , the same way Nvidia did 3Dfx back in the 90's.

While i will give Nvidia credit for producing a more future proof chipset, you have to remember in 6 months these cards are already old. great chipset but should be even faster considering all the changes and work they put into this new core , meanwhile ATI is still hammering it with an older generation chipset.

Makes u wonder who's the one that's really a generation behind, by the looks of things it seems like this is just Nvidia catching up and ATI releasing the X800XT as a stop gap till it get's the R500 core ready to crush Nvidia once and for all. wait till ATI's R500 core come Jan(maybe in new PM G5 at MWSF '05)

[mactarkus]

I'm glad I waited until now. I was afraid I'd have to settle for the best video card of yesterday and not have a shot at the best video card of tomorrow. My CTO 2.5 GHz G5 was a little more than $3K. I thought that was a lot of money to spend on a computer until I looked what I had paid for my Centris 610 about ten years ago. I paid about $3K for that too! And that was a 20MHz 68LC040 with 4MB RAM and no CD-ROM!

It's also sad that I'm not in the business of high-end content creation so I'm mainly using the graphics power for gaming. To think that I have an HP Athlon 3K sitting here with an Nvidia 5900SE that plays games beautifully and cost me all of $600 total -- the cost of the fancy 6800 Ultra going in my Mac. I guess my home movie making and photoshopping will see a boost, but let's face it, that's overkill. Bring on Doom III!!!

[ahoover]

Well I have my dual 2.5 CTO 2GB 250GB SATA PM on the way and I think I'll be changing my order also from the ATI Radeon 9800 XT to the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 DDL. Now my dilema is what to do about the two NIB old style 23" HD flat panels I have. Almost worth a shot at eBay to liquidate/upgrade to the new dual 23"s or a 30" single.

Decisions, decisions.....

[TWinbrook46636]

So with these high-end cards on the market taking up the space of two slots why don't they add additional space between two of them?

[csubear]

How does one hook up two 30" displays to this thing?

[ITR 81]

Well, it's not available until August, while the PC version is available in July.

But the 6800 Ultra won't be able to support the 30inch Apple display...but the tweaked 6800 Ultra DDL will.

So far the new 6800's for the PC's won't support the res. needed for the 30inch Apple display. So one could say Apple is getting the better card.
I just wonder now if we can OC the 6800's for the Mac?

[jsw]

How does one hook up two 30" displays to this thing?

Two ports on the back, each dual dual-link DVI. Two 30" monitor plugs, each dual-link DVI. One monitor cable per card port. Power, USB 2.0, Firewire branches of the monitor cables plugged into respective ports.

[csubear]

So, Those ports are special Dual DVI ports? Can you hook up normal DVI to it?

[Sun Baked]

So with these high-end cards on the market taking up the space of two slots why don't they add additional space between two of them?NVidias goal is to eventually take up 4 spaces with their SLI/PCI-e versions of these cards and is moving to update their chipsets for use with two PCI-e x16 video cards.

But motherboards like ATX ones are based on a standard, and adding space means changing the standard so they no longer meet the standard.

[swingerofbirch]

From my understanding, in general, the faster the graphics card and the more memory it has the faster you can do video editing and the more frames per second a game will have. Now, if you are adding on a graphics card to a Power Mac because it is necessary to simply run a display of enormous magnitude and resolution, does that then mean that said graphics card would be more impotent in dealing wtih graphics and FPS because it is having to carry the burden of the large display?

In other words, would the 6800 Ultra be a more powerful performer in a computer that was connected to a 20" display instead of the 30" display?

BTW, cannot wait to see the 30" in person. The only Mac dealer in my area is Compusa and they are slow to get new Mac products. They have a 23" one sitting in there now, anyone think they'll have a display of the new 30" (ever)?

[Mav451]

NVidias goal is to eventually take up 4 spaces with their SLI/PCI-e versions of these cards and is moving to update their chipsets for use with two PCI-e x16 video cards.

But motherboards like ATX ones are based on a standard, and adding space means changing the standard so they no longer meet the standard.

Hmm that's actually a very good point, and probably has a lot to do with their recent announcement on developing nForce4.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=16874

It gets the ultimate drool factor for both the native PCI-E and Soundstorm 2 (assuming we won't run into problems like nForce2 chipsets had with the original Soundstorm -_-).

[Mtn Tamale]

I'm set to order the G5 2.5ghz and a 23" display with a 9600xt vid card. I really only need a 2.0ghz G5, but for an extra $300 I figured I future proof my purchase. I'm buying this on the education pricing plan.

Question is: Would it be better future proofing to get a 2.0Ghz G5 with the nVidia 6800 card? Given that 10.4 and on with take so much more advantage of the vid card?

[Mav451]

I'm set to order the G5 2.5ghz and a 23" display with a 9600xt vid card. I really only need a 2.0ghz G5, but for an extra $300 I figured I future proof my purchase. I'm buying this on the education pricing plan.

Question is: Would it be better future proofing to get a 2.0Ghz G5 with the nVidia 6800 card? Given that 10.4 and on with take so much more advantage of the vid card?

Nah, its a better idea to have the TOP CPU + mid Vid card. Its easier to upgrade the video card later anyway...whereas a CPU upgrade would be rather complicated--especially since it is water-cooling based now.

[DMann]

It can if ATI want's it to and at better quality , all ATI need to do it add the Dual DVI to a mac version , and who's to say there won't be a Radeon X800XT PE DDL for mac.


Nvidia Geforce 6800 Ultra DDL fill rate is 6.4 Gpixels/sec

ATI Radeon X800XT PE fill rate is 8.3 Gpixels/sec

So you tell me if it can?

I am sure ATI will be releasing a DDL for the Mac by the end
of summer.

[DMann]

Nah, its a better idea to have the TOP CPU + mid Vid card. Its easier to upgrade the video card later anyway...whereas a CPU upgrade would be rather complicated--especially since it is water-cooling based now.

Yes, upgrading a CPU in a new G5 would not be easy.
Waiting for the next latest and greatest Video card
would be the way to go!

[DMann]

From my understanding, in general, the faster the graphics card and the more memory it has the faster you can do video editing and the more frames per second a game will have. Now, if you are adding on a graphics card to a Power Mac because it is necessary to simply run a display of enormous magnitude and resolution, does that then mean

that said graphics card would be more impotent in dealing wtih graphics
and FPS because it is having to carry the burden of the large display?

In other words, would the 6800 Ultra be a more powerful performer in a computer that was connected to a 20" display instead of the 30" display?
(ever)?[COLOR=YellowGreen]

[ddtlm]

DMann:

I am sure ATI will be releasing a DDL for the Mac by the end of summer.
I'd imagine that a few of their FireGL Radeons support dual-link DVI already.

[swingerofbirch]

i did intend to say what i wrote: impotent, not important; however, after reviewing my post, i realize i could have written slightly more clearly

impotent as far as i know simply means not powerful or intense; i believe i used it correctly

no takers on answering my question, though?

[DMann]

From my understanding, in general, the faster the graphics card and the more memory it has the faster you can do video editing and the more frames per second a game will have. Now, if you are adding on a graphics card to a Power Mac because it is necessary to simply run a display of enormous magnitude and resolution, does that then mean that said graphics card would be more impotent in dealing wtih graphics and FPS because it is having to carry the burden of the large display?

In other words, would the 6800 Ultra be a more powerful performer in a computer that was connected to a 20" display instead of the 30" display?

BTW, cannot wait to see the 30" in person. The only Mac dealer in my area is Compusa and they are slow to get new Mac products. They have a 23" one sitting in there now, anyone think they'll have a display of the new 30" (ever)?

I now better understand your question. The slowdown when comparing
running a 30" LCD as opposed to a 20" monitor would be slight - since both the graphics card and the processor work in tandem to generate FPS.
The graphics card will indeed be taxed more by the 30", but you'll have to try them side by side to find out if the difference is greatly noticeable. Perhaps Barefeats or Tom's Hardware think to compare them on different sized monitors. Also, Tiger will be allocating even more work toward the graphics card with Core Image, music, and video. Good question - by the time Tiger is released, I'm sure we'll be seeing two more generations from both NVidea and ATI.

[DMann]

i did intend to say what i wrote: impotent, not important; however, after reviewing my post, i realize i could have written slightly more clearly

impotent as far as i know simply means not powerful or intense; i believe i used it correctly

no takers on answering my question, though?

The new GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL is loaded with enough
memory and processor speed to handle running two
30" LCDs in addition to movie editing - if you are running
a single 30" and a high end game, it probably won't compromise
too much, but I'll bet you'll get better performance on the 20".

[stingerman]

I now better understand your question. The slowdown when comparing
running a 30" LCD as opposed to a 20" monitor would be slight - since both the graphics card and the processor work in tandem to generate FPS.
The graphics card will indeed be taxed more by the 30", but you'll have to try them side by side to find out if the difference is greatly noticeable. Perhaps Barefeats or Tom's Hardware think to compare them on different sized monitors. Also, Tiger will be allocating even more work toward the graphics card with Core Image, music, and video. Good question - by the time Tiger is released, I'm sure we'll be seeing two more generations from both NVidea and ATI.

The physical size wouldn't matter for game performance. You can still set the resolution settings to lower than the max to get more FPS. The higher the resolution the lower the FPS. Your goal would be to try to not fall below the display frame rate of 16ms or ~60FPS. So get the 30".

[Anonymous Freak]

It's the resolution that matters, not the physical display size. *NO* game is going to be playable at the 30"'s native resolution, no matter what card you have. Just as with the 23" display, most games run at a much lower resolution, such as 1024x768. (Lots of games don't even support the 23"er's native resolution, so playing at full res isn't even an option.)

So, you'll end up with the same number of pixels being rendered, they'll just be smoothed out a bit better on the 30" monster. And since the GeForce 6800 is the highest end video card that will be available for the Mac, it should outperform anything else, on any size monitor.

[stingerman]

The new GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL is loaded with enough
memory and processor speed to handle running two
30" LCDs in addition to movie editing - if you are running
a single 30" and a high end game, it probably won't compromise
too much, but I'll bet you'll get better performance on the 20".
So just set the Game resolution to the same as the 20" Max, You'll get the same performance on the 30". The thing is that on the 20" you can't go higher, you can always go lower on the 30"

[absolut_mac]

I honestly couldn't care if nVidia was 10% or 10,000% better than ATI!

Why???

Because with the pathetic support I got from them in the past, they lost me as a customer. Besides, what good is the world's best card with zero customer support :mad:

[sambo.]

looks like a 2.0, 9600 + 23" monitor for me. i aint spending AUD$6000 on a screen.

three/four years time or when i NEED to add more machines to the biz, i might get one then, and pass my machine down to the new employee. however, G6's will prolly be around by then, & 58" monitors will be announced.

however, if the price on the 9800 dfx card comes down before i order my machine, i'll get that.

would love a 30", but i aint made of cash, regardless of what steve thinks........ :eek:

[zelman]

Can this card run 4 23" displays instead?

and does anyone with $15k want to try using it for that super IBM display that requires 4 DVI ports (I forget the model)?

[Mr.Sorensen]

The real question here is whether any of the tecnology available now can display upwards of 4200 x 2000 pixels... My holy grail is to be able to display vistavision-size full-resolution motion picture film footage on a single desktop monitor on a mac...

How many more years????

Who wants HD when there is FILM resolution out there?

[TMay]

I would like one of these for my peecee running pro/engineer. Is the 6800 Ultra DDL mac specific? Otherwise, I'm having a tough time finding a video card that will support the 30 in.

[PPC970FX]

Can sombody tell me the mhz in the core and RAM on the 6800Ultra, and why is it bigger (longer) the the x86 6800Ultra? Does it have 512MB??

[yamabushi]

I would like one of these for my peecee running pro/engineer. Is the 6800 Ultra DDL mac specific? Otherwise, I'm having a tough time finding a video card that will support the 30 in. Yes this card is Mac specific but PC versions are also becoming available from various vendors. The Ati X800 is also theoretically powerful enough to drive the 30in but drivers might not support it yet.


I suspect that the 6800 card may run at a conservative clock speed in order to reduce power requirements, heat, and noise. Nevertheless, I expect the perfomance to be phenomenal.

[Michael Vance]

I was looking at pictures from the WWDC of a G5 with the 6800 Ultra installed. Is it possible to install it complimentary to another card (such as the Radeon 9600? What are all the ADC owners going to do if they want to get a 30" display?

Let me get this straight. Current G5 models are only available with cards having ADC ports, yet Apple no longer makes monitors using ADC ports. That is so typical of Apple. Selling video cards that don't work with any currently selling monitors on earth, not even Apple monitors. It's just typical Apple. Make a proprietary product that exclused your product's use with anything else, then discontinue it, yet continue to sell it.

Now about the dual dual DVI port. Please tell me this is not yet another port that works only with new Apple monitors and nothing else.

I want to buy an Apple computer and use it with two Samsung 21" DVI monitors. Is there a card available for the Mac that will run two standard DVI? Do I have to buy a computer and rip the card it comes with out and replace it with another?

The new Apple monitors look pretty good but unfortunately I can't use any monitor that doesn't have two ports for AB switching. Shame about that.

[Mercury]

I just went ahead and ordered a dual 2.5 with Radeon 9800XT. One reason is the shipping date. The time I'll probably most get to enjoy this computer is during the summer, before I start doing applications and class again. Having the best computer in the world does me no good if I can't play it, and waiting until August simply ruins it. Second, it is cheaper, by a bit. The argument about importance of CPU vs. GPU convinced me. 500mhz(1 ghz total) could make a huge difference down the line, and I'm anxious to test the LCS. While I want a l33t gaming machine, for the next year or so, the Radeon 9800 will be great for everything. When it comes time to replace it, the extra $135 I saved plus a bit more can probably get me an upgrade that'll be even better than the 6800 at the moment. Yeah, that only gets me $200 at most of purchasing power(with $50 from ATI's trade-up program), but, hey: It's cheaper than upgrading the CPU.

Posts convincing me otherwise are plenty welcome.

[HornetOSX]

I want to buy an Apple computer and use it with two Samsung 21" DVI monitors. Is there a card available for the Mac that will run two standard DVI? Do I have to buy a computer and rip the card it comes with out and replace it with another?


An ADC port can be converted to a DVI port with a simple 10 buck adapter

ADC is just DVI with USB and power on the same connector.

[Mercury]

Let me get this straight. Current G5 models are only available with cards having ADC ports, yet Apple no longer makes monitors using ADC ports.

They come with one each of ADC and DVI, with the exception of the 6800 that comes with two dual DVIs. You could run (any) two flat panels with that, and at least one with all the others without an adapter.

[yamabushi]

The new Apple monitors look pretty good but unfortunately I can't use any monitor that doesn't have two ports for AB switching.
You can buy numerous kinds of external DVI switches. I am confident one of those could meet your needs. I have seen several that duplicate the function you mentioned.

[Nermal]

I see that there's an ADC power connector on this new card. What's that for? Powering the GPU?

Not that anyone can give a conclusive answer, seeing that it's such a new card :)

[Michael Vance]

You can buy numerous kinds of external DVI switches. I am confident one of those could meet your needs. I have seen several that duplicate the function you mentioned.

From what I've heard these things always break fairly quickly.

[army_guy]

But the 6800 Ultra won't be able to support the 30inch Apple display...but the tweaked 6800 Ultra DDL will.

So far the new 6800's for the PC's won't support the res. needed for the 30inch Apple display. So one could say Apple is getting the better card.
I just wonder now if we can OC the 6800's for the Mac?

Duh its the same card, it will be the driver that decides if DUAL 30" work or not, the resoulution is to do with the .inf file and is not a direct hardware limitation. Take the situation where I want to use the latest nvidia drivers on my M60 laptop, the 1920x1200 isnt in there so I modify the .inf to get that resolution. As for the ULTRA version, there isnt enough to go round for the PC's let alone the MAC's and I doubt nvidia will be supplying Apple with the ULTRA versions as there are allready reservered for the PC enthusiasts. As I said before the MAC and PC cards are identical and is only the difference of the BIOS. Remember the yield of the NV40 is still very low.

[army_guy]

From my understanding, in general, the faster the graphics card and the more memory it has the faster you can do video editing and the more frames per second a game will have. Now, if you are adding on a graphics card to a Power Mac because it is necessary to simply run a display of enormous magnitude and resolution, does that then mean that said graphics card would be more impotent in dealing wtih graphics and FPS because it is having to carry the burden of the large display?

In other words, would the 6800 Ultra be a more powerful performer in a computer that was connected to a 20" display instead of the 30" display?

BTW, cannot wait to see the 30" in person. The only Mac dealer in my area is Compusa and they are slow to get new Mac products. They have a 23" one sitting in there now, anyone think they'll have a display of the new 30" (ever)?

A faster graphics card will not give you faster video editing, your talking about 2D speed of which has remained more or less constant during the last couple of years. As for games yes as its 3D. You dont need a 6800 to run a single 30" Display Apple is just saying this to get more money. aka the maketing lie, of which Apple is full of these days

[ewinemiller]

You can buy numerous kinds of external DVI switches. I am confident one of those could meet your needs. I have seen several that duplicate the function you mentioned.

The problem is while a mac friendly VGA KVM switch can be had for $40 including cables, the DVI-USB KVM switches are running about $250+ and then you have to buy 2 or more $80 cables to run them. Right now it's cheaper to pay a little extra and buy a display with two inputs instead of using a DVI KVM switch.

If you've seen something cheaper, I'd love to know. I'm in the same boat. I'd love a 20" LCD display, but I need to hook up a Mac and PC to it. I don't see a point in investing so much money above and beyond the price of the display itself so I will keep running my old CRT.

[TMay]

Duh its the same card, it will be the driver that decides if DUAL 30" work or not, the resoulution is to do with the .inf file and is not a direct hardware limitation. Take the situation where I want to use the latest nvidia drivers on my M60 laptop, the 1920x1200 isnt in there so I modify the .inf to get that resolution. As for the ULTRA version, there isnt enough to go round for the PC's let alone the MAC's and I doubt nvidia will be supplying Apple with the ULTRA versions as there are allready reservered for the PC enthusiasts. As I said before the MAC and PC cards are identical and is only the difference of the BIOS. Remember the yield of the NV40 is still very low.

Dual Link DVI

I lifted this from apple's 30 in cinema display page:

Dual Link DVI


"The 30-inch Cinema HD Display requires the next level of DVI connectivity — “dual link” to drive the massive amount of pixels to the screen. And the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL graphics card (available from the Apple Store) delivers, with the most advanced graphics engine available. This card, designed specifically to support the dual link DVI connection, delivers 2560 by 1600 resolution. Even better, it can drive two 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Displays, giving you the ultimate creative canvas. This card will be available for Mac only in August 2004."

The difference really is the dual "dual link DVI" which was provided "specifically" for Apple. This is as well what SJ mentioned during the keynote. Otherwise, I agree that Ultra and Ultra DDL are (more than likely) identical.

[army_guy]

this is very vague, thier are DUAL DVI 6800 ULTRA cards avilable for the PC and I fail to see why the need for a 6800 to support that resulultion when I can see higher resultions in any of the nvidia .inf files. I think that the card is only needed when driving two 30" panels not one and Apple decided to make it a requirement just for thier sake, again thier marketing lies.

[TMay]

this is very vague, thier are DUAL DVI 6800 ULTRA cards avilable for the PC and I fail to see why the need for a 6800 to support that resulultion when I can see higher resultions in any of the nvidia .inf files. I think that the card is only needed when driving two 30" panels not one and Apple decided to make it a requirement just for thier sake, again thier marketing lies.

http://www.ddwg.org/dvi.html

Even with the dual link, Apple is still outside the standard with substantially higher resolution. Hardly marketing lies.

[Trekkie]

I now better understand your question. The slowdown when comparing
running a 30" LCD as opposed to a 20" monitor would be slight - since both the graphics card and the processor work in tandem to generate FPS.
The graphics card will indeed be taxed more by the 30", but you'll have to try them side by side to find out if the difference is greatly noticeable. Perhaps Barefeats or Tom's Hardware think to compare them on different sized monitors.

It has been a while since I've paid attention to the straight video card portion of the market, I don't care as much as I used too.

However, driving the resolution of the bigger monitors is mainly the work of the VRAM and a bit of the processor. The VRAM allows for the resolution with the color depth, and then the processor really affects the frame rate last time I did in depth research.

So the more memory the card has the higher res it supports. While the 9800 does have 256MB it doesn't have the ability to dual scan the monitor like the GeForce does.

I'm a bit dated, but my experience comes from the IBM IntelliStation line of products. IBM has a 22.1" 9MP monitor that needs a QuadraFX1000 or better to drive it, and it's dual DVI attached.

lot more expensive too, $8599 last time I looked (list price)

So in short my guess is that there wouldn't be a perf difference bewteen the 30" and the 23" on the same graphics card based on what I remember. However I'd be willing to bet the 30" card runs warmer and closer to its limits as far as 'what it can do' but you won't see the difference in benchmarks.

[army_guy]

open up an nivida .ing file and look theres resolutions higher than Apples for cards based on NV25-NV40. Apple doesnt want users with cards lower than a 6800 to use the 30" panel period even though it is possbile to do so on a PC. Aple has allways been decepive with thier H/W and its just lie after lie.

[army_guy]

http://www.ddwg.org/dvi.html

Even with the dual link, Apple is still outside the standard with substantially higher resolution. Hardly marketing lies.
If your outside the standard then your not in the standard for what was set for that specification, I wouldnt trust anyone to screw around with computer standards such as DVI let alone Apple. Now what is the refresh rate of the 30" panel? how about 40-50Hz to achieve that resolution with DUAL Link DVI.

[jsw]

....Aple has allways been decepive with thier H/W and its just lie after lie.

Umm... in what ways have they "allways been decepive"? Which are the lies after lies?

The 6800 is the only card- currently - on a Mac that will power the 30". It will only fit on a G5. Period. These are not a lies. No one is stopping video card manufacturers from making cards for the Mac. Apple isn't. It's a small market, and the card makers pick and choose what they port over.

[army_guy]

I dont have to remind anyone here about apple lies, you know what iam talking about so dont act stuipid, I only have to mention promise of 3GHz, worlds fastest personal computer and that OSX is a 64-bit OS, these are only from the top of my head. And why are the PC benchmarks sites still waiting for review systems from Apple.....

[TMay]

If your outside the standard then your not in the standard for what was set for that specification, I wouldnt trust anyone to screw around with computer standards such as DVI let alone Apple. Now what is the refresh rate of the 30" panel? how about 40-50Hz to achieve that resolution with DUAL Link DVI.

Well, if the Dual DVI-I standard only goes to 2048 x 1600, then Apple doesn't have much choice but to extend the standard (most likely increased the frequency), and frankly, who better than Apple at this point. The response time is quoted at 16ms, which is about 65 hz.

[fedora]

how does this card compare to high end pc graphics cards like 3D labs wildcat VP series, that are in my veiw the best GPU avalible (shame they only build for pc's)

[hoho19]

I have a powermac G4 AGP 500 (which now has a 1ghz card and i just bought a Radeon 9000).

Can I run one of these new monitors on this setup?
I currently run one of the 17 inch ADC monitors using Dr. Botts DVI->ADC thingie.

Can i run a new mac monitor on my dvi port on my graphi

[sushi]

My Macs: 128K, 512K, Plus, SE, Portable, SE/30, Classic I/II, Color Classic I/II, II, IIx, IIcx, IIci, IIvx, IIfx, IIsi, LC, LC2, LC3, LC3+, LC520, MacTV, Performa 200/400/631CD, Centris 610/650/660AV, Quadra 605/630/650/660AV/700/800/840av,950, PBooks 140/145/150/160/165c/170/180/180c/190/Duo210/230/280/280c, PowerMac 4400/6100/6500/7200/7300/7500/7600/8500/8600,9500/9600, Server 60/6150/7250/500, Beige G3 Desktop/Tower/AIO, B&W G3, iBook SE, iMac Bondi/DV/FlowerPower/BlueDalmatian/FP800 & Apple ][+, //e, //e Platinum, IIGS, IIGSWoz, //c, //c+ & ///.
On a side note. What an impressive collection.

Then again, it looks like you left out the TAM! :eek:

Sushi

[army_guy]

how does this card compare to high end pc graphics cards like 3D labs wildcat VP series, that are in my veiw the best GPU avalible (shame they only build for pc's)

The wildcat cards are not for comparison to the 6800, they are to the quadro series and have price tags to match $1000-$3000+. The quadro cards are focused for OpenGL and stability with CAD applications NOT games, thier performance in these apps is anywhere from 2x the equivalent consumer card i.e. Quadro 4000 VS Geforce 6800 ($2500 VS $499)

By the way the 7210 wildcat sticks out of the G5 case so mechanically it doesnt fit....

[jsw]

I dont have to remind anyone here about apple lies, you know what iam talking about so dont act stuipid, I only have to mention promise of 3GHz, worlds fastest personal computer and that OSX is a 64-bit OS, these are only from the top of my head. And why are the PC benchmarks sites still waiting for review systems from Apple.....

(1) Any time anyone predicts a system speed over a year in the future, it's commonly thought to be a prediction, not a statement asserted to be true. Hence, not a lie.

(2) Some benchmarks showed it to be fastest. Doesn't mean fastest at everything. Not a lie.

(3) Apple never called OS X 64 bit. They said the G5 was 64 bit. Big difference. Not a lie.

If you consider Apple's PR to be lies, you might want to look up the term and usage of "marketing". Many companies have been known to use it.

[army_guy]

so why did jobs PROMISE 3GHz, view the keynote.
The benchmarks were flawed, dodgy gcc compiler and settings and questionable configuration of the PC system they used with no details on BIOS/Windows settings. As i have 1st hand experience with many platfroms including the power, itanium, sparc and the opteron I know how each performs lets just say IBM were far from impresive. As I remember people were thinking that panther was 64-bit.

I know marketing and Apple is very good at it, but theres marketing and theres ************ lies and apple does the latter.

[wPod]

hmm. . . dual 30" displays. . . as remarkably cool as that sounds (yes i had to change my pants after hearing about the 30" display) what exactly do you do with 2 30" displays? you can only watch a DVD on one screen. . . can you play a video game on 2? can you do more on dual 30" screens than on dual 23"?

[Trekkie]

this is very vague, thier are DUAL DVI 6800 ULTRA cards avilable for the PC and I fail to see why the need for a 6800 to support that resulultion when I can see higher resultions in any of the nvidia .inf files. I think that the card is only needed when driving two 30" panels not one and Apple decided to make it a requirement just for thier sake, again thier marketing lies.

Before you accuse Apple of lying make sure you understand what you're referring too.

Dual link DVI <> Dual DVI ports. Dual link DVI = two ports that are really 4 DVI ports. That's how they attach twin 30 inchers to that card.

According to nVidia's website the Quadra FX4000, FX 3000G, and FX3000 offer tihs technology. There isn't much as far as 'specs' of the 6800 on the page other than the marketspeak chipset features so it's hard to tell if the PC version will have this.

[Trekkie]

hmm. . . dual 30" displays. . . as remarkably cool as that sounds (yes i had to change my pants after hearing about the 30" display) what exactly do you do with 2 30" displays? you can only watch a DVD on one screen. . . can you play a video game on 2? can you do more on dual 30" screens than on dual 23"?

I would think doing HD video editing with the timeline and stuff on one screen and the full screen output on the other might be useful.

I've never heard someone complain that their monitor setup was 'too big' other than it made the desk bow when it was a CRT.

Not that I'm ever going to get dual 30's anytime soon, boy that'd be fun though to dink around on, but I couldn't ever come up with a reason to do that for home use. I'm probably going to go with the 20 before it's all over with.

[army_guy]

OK I understand that now so 1 DUAL Link DVI is actually two DVI's merged into the same connection?

[Trekkie]

so why did jobs PROMISE 3GHz, view the keynote.
The benchmarks were flawed, dodgy gcc compiler and settings and questionable configuration of the PC system they used with no details on BIOS/Windows settings. As i have 1st hand experience with many platfroms including the power, itanium, sparc and the opteron I know how each performs lets just say IBM were far from impresive. As I remember people were thinking that panther was 64-bit.

I know marketing and Apple is very good at it, but theres marketing and theres ************ lies and apple does the latter.

Jobs promised because IBM promised, and IBM couldn't deliver.

For someone claiming to have lots of experience with other platforms it's amazing to me that you single out Apple and call them liars in every post you've made on the page.

Sun - Won't run any benchmarks because they aren't 'real world' tests. In other words, they get their asses handed to them by IBM and HP because the Sparc is such a hog. Intsead Sun will make a competitor set up an extensive and expensive benchmark usually making the customer not want to bother. That or Sun will give away the hardware in an effort to keep the account, I've seen it first hand.

Dell - Will tell a customer some rock bottom price in the bid, but when it comes time to deliver says 'oh, that's discontinued'. The reason they've won is because they bid a processor that isn't made anymore at pennies on the dollar, winning the bid but then selling them a 'more expensive replacement' that was just in line, or more expensive than the competeting bids.

HP - Claims they've sold 100,000 Blade servers and that they're the 'leading vendor' However they fail to mention that they've had blades since 2000 or so, and that IBM has almost hit that number and they've only had blades (and fewer models, they don't have single proc blades) in only 18 months.

Intel claimed that the Pentium II was some new kick ass thing and put a bunch of people dancing in pink & purple clean room suits. They forgot to tell people that PII 233 - 333Mhz chips were dogs compared to Pent 166 - 233 Mhz because the PII's new and improved design moved the chace off the processor die & it halved the cache speed. It wasn't until the 350/100 Pentium II came out that the speed actually improved.

Same for the Pentium IV 1.5GHz - 1.8GHz range vs. Pentium III 1.0 - 1.3Ghz because of the increase in the stages of the pipeline. While overall it improved as clock speed increased the 10 vs. 20 stage dramaticly slowed the P4 for some time.

I'm sure we could jump out of the computer industry and pick Pepsi, Coke, Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota, Honda and find all sorts of 'lies'. If you hate Apple so much , go find a truth telling PC vendor and get one of theirs.

[army_guy]

IBM should stick to servers and leave the workstations to the likes on intel, sun and amd. The power is great on paper but it just lags behind in real world use. I should note that Cadence has left IBM behind with the major EDA tools and it takes alot to do that, thier is also a rumor that Mentor is following Cadence and dumping thier support for the power series. I dont know about you but when a software company producing $1M tools decides to cease support for that platform then theres obviously something wrong. While IBM is loosing support SUN is gaining it, as for the sparc it isnt a hog it has to be used in the right way.

[danva]

army_guy,

As one working in EDA for 10 years I can tell you that Cadance "leaving" IBM has nothing to do with their platform. It only has to do with quality of IBM internal CAD/EDA tools - there are very good folks working in IBM CAD departments. There are leaders in EDA world in EDA related technologies, formal verification being one of the examples.
Even Intel untill not long ago used exclusevely internally developed EDA tools - this is a big money pie many EDA vendors are fighting for these days.

EDA vendor platform support is only coming to platforms used in hardware design houses which are willing to buy EDA products.

Relax and get a clue :D

[army_guy]

fair enough, my point being is that IBM arent the so called leaders anymore and thier H/W is only good on paper IMO

[topicolo]

Well, after my wife leaves me upon buying 2 30" monitors I can think of one organ that will not be needed for a bit.....


Don't know a about a market for it though.

You don't need a wife if you've got a mac with 2 30" monitors ;)

[agdickinson]

Does anyone know yet if the new 6800 works with the "Old" G5 Dual machine?

It's "only" £450 or so in the UK, so I'm tempted?

Thanks

Andrew
:)

[Anonymous Freak]

Does anyone know yet if the new 6800 works with the "Old" G5 Dual machine?

It's "only" £450 or so in the UK, so I'm tempted?

Thanks

Andrew
:)

Well, Apple's only requirement is a G5, so it should. All G5s have AGP 8x slots, and since the new card is available as an option on the new dual 1.8 system, which is architecturally halfway between the old 1.6 and the old dual 1.8, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

I wonder if this card supports IBM/ViewSonic/Iiyama's monster 9MP 22.3" display? (It's 22.3", with an insane resolution of 4xHD, or 3840x2400. Basically, it's four 23" Cinema HD Displays crammed together into the same physical space. It requires FOUR DVI connections, as two dual-DVI plugs. It comes with a four-monitor Matrox card, and appears to Windows as four separate monitors, each 960x2400.) Since the GF6800 U DDL has two dual-DVI plugs, it might work. (And it would be more pixels than two 30"ers, albeit in less than half the space, at a whopping 200 pixels per inch.)

[Anonymous Freak]

OK I understand that now so 1 DUAL Link DVI is actually two DVI's merged into the same connection?

Yes, and the new 6800 Ultra DDL has two of these dual-link connectors. Meaning it has four DVI channels. Which is why some are wondering if you can use a dual-to-two-single DVI breakout cables to run four 'lesser' monitors. (Such as the 23" display.)

I'd much rather have four 23"ers than two 30"ers. Nice 3820x2400 grid, 46" diagonally. (Yeah, it'll have a couple of breaks for the borders, but still cool.)

[Mercury]

I already changed my order when I came back from work today. But now the delivery date was pushed back from August, 2nd to third week of August. :(

How exactly do you change your order, anyway? I'm thinking if I don't get it by third week or so of July, changing my order to the 6800 with some extra saved up cash.

[Sun Baked]

Well, Apple's only requirement is a G5, so it should. All G5s have AGP 8x slots, and since the new card is available as an option on the new dual 1.8 system, which is architecturally halfway between the old 1.6 and the old dual 1.8, I don't see why it wouldn't work.Actually the NEW DP 1.8 G5 changed quite a bit, there are some strange changes under the hood of that new machine.

But a good hint at the possible new consumer machines. ;)

[davetrow1997]

Don't Forget.. There is Always Apple Credit from MBNA.

9.99% OAC 90 Days same as cash up to a 25,000 Credit Line!

All you need to Submit is a short application, 1 arm, 1 leg!

My Dream Setup was only 248$ a month WOOHOO ;P Except they wont give me a dime of credit till I pay off the 45k I owe other various banks!

Student loans $250k, Car loan $25K, Home loan $150K....

A $12K Dual 2.5 tricked out... Priceless

It really does just seem like a drop in the bucket in comparison..

[Mercury]

Student loans $250k, Car loan $25K, Home loan $150K....

A $12K Dual 2.5 tricked out... Priceless

It really does just seem like a drop in the bucket in comparison..

$250,000 for school?! Where are you going? If that's in USD, or even CAD, yeesh!

I s'pos for medical school AND undergrad, but man, don't envy you there.

[daveL]

fair enough, my point being is that IBM arent the so called leaders anymore and thier H/W is only good on paper IMO
I'm sorry, army_guy, but I'm really tired of your half-baked posts. It would really be nice if you led with your mind and not with your mouth. Like ranting about all of Apple's "lies" and then a dozen posts later: "Oh, so DDL is a standard DVI connector with 2 data lines with twice the bandwidth; now I get it" (to paraphrase - you don't deserve the effort to look up the exact quote).

BTW, corporations are consider to be an entity, i.e. like a (note the singular) person. It isn't "IBM aren't" it's "IBM isn't". If you want someone to take you seriously (which most of us don't), try introducing some intelligence into your posts, rather than your normal, misplaced emotions.

If you're not a troll, you should still consider teaching a class in trolling; you're very good at it.

[Travis Novak]

[QUOTE=agdickinson]Does anyone know yet if the new 6800 works with the "Old" G5 Dual machine?

It's "only" £450 or so in the UK, so I'm tempted?

Thanks

Andrew
It should work. But what i'm wondering is now that apple is dvi, are pc grapics cards still incompatible? Most apg cards on pc and mac are driverless so what makes the transition difficult? :confused:

[jsw]

It should work. But what i'm wondering is now that apple is dvi, are pc grapics cards still incompatible? Most apg cards on pc and mac are driverless so what makes the transition difficult? :confused:

Others in this thread (and others) are better able to explain why the PC cards aren't compatible (I think it's more than just drivers, maybe not). But the fact that Apple just went all DVI isn't the problem, I don't think. Otherwise, people would have been plugging PC cards into Macs and just using cheaper DVI monitors all along....

[Mav451]

[QUOTE=agdickinson]Does anyone know yet if the new 6800 works with the "Old" G5 Dual machine?

It's "only" £450 or so in the UK, so I'm tempted?

Thanks

Andrew
It should work. But what i'm wondering is now that apple is dvi, are pc grapics cards still incompatible? Most apg cards on pc and mac are driverless so what makes the transition difficult? :confused:

Driverless? You'd be fooling yourself if you thought that was the case. Both Mac and PC's use drivers, however, with Macs, drivers are part of an OS update...which is why they hardly get updated (6 month-1 year cycle vs. once a month or two on the PC side). PC drivers are updated constantly (and dare I say too quickly sometimes)--but that is the double-edged sword of using bleeding edge software.

So Macs, while typically getting much less driver updates get the "WHQL" ones, or the "stable" (but not as up-to-date) in comparison to the PC drivers.

But this is besides the point. The main difference lies in the video card's BIOS (which identifies the card at startup, for both the Mac and PC). If it is the wrong one, obviously, then it doesn't work. This is why I believe that if someone were to develop a technique to flash the cards, you could potentially use a PC card in a Mac. However, in the case of the 6800, the "Dual Dual link" that is special to the Mac version is not part of the PC version, at least at this point in time.

[davetrow1997]

$250,000 for school?! Where are you going? If that's in USD, or even CAD, yeesh!

I s'pos for medical school AND undergrad, but man, don't envy you there.

I sort of cheated. That's med school debt x 2 for my wife and I...

I am a little bit peeved at our hospital, actually... We used to use macs for medical image viewing because they were the best system out there... now that the Army has decided that we are going to be an "Army of One," they have gone to a total Windows environment. I can hardly get a good workflow, the servers, workstations, and image viewing systems are so freaking BUGGY. We use now these crappy Viewsonic flat panels with absolutely HORRIFIC viewing tolerances, or whatever the proper terminology is.
I tried to convince our IT department that we should s***can these pieces of junk and go back to the mac platform... dual G5s everywhere driving 23" LCDs for medical image viewing would be very nice.

Looking at DICOM images using freakin' Dells with Viewsonic monitors is like malpractice. OsiriX is a peachy DICOM viewer that would smoke using this new graphics card...

[AidenShaw]

BTW, corporations are consider to be an entity, i.e. like a (note the singular) person. It isn't "IBM aren't" it's "IBM isn't".


Not to defend army-guy, but in British English corporations are considered to be plural.

"Apple are screwing their customers" would be proper speech in London.

[daveL]

Not to defend army-guy, but in British English corporations are considered to be plural.

"Apple are screwing their customers" would be proper speech in London.
Being American, I was not aware of that difference in grammar, although it still drives be crazy. Thanks for the correction.

[thedogcow]

I sort of cheated. That's med school debt x 2 for my wife and I...

I am a little bit peeved at our hospital, actually... We used to use macs for medical image viewing because they were the best system out there... now that the Army has decided that we are going to be an "Army of One," they have gone to a total Windows environment. I can hardly get a good workflow, the servers, workstations, and image viewing systems are so freaking BUGGY. We use now these crappy Viewsonic flat panels with absolutely HORRIFIC viewing tolerances, or whatever the proper terminology is.
I tried to convince our IT department that we should s***can these pieces of junk and go back to the mac platform... dual G5s everywhere driving 23" LCDs for medical image viewing would be very nice.

Looking at DICOM images using freakin' Dells with Viewsonic monitors is like malpractice. OsiriX is a peachy DICOM viewer that would smoke using this new graphics card...


If you both are on your way to becoming doctors, I think you can afford the measly 12K for a computer.


:rolleyes:

[Freg3000]

Being American, I was not aware of that difference in grammar, although it still drives be crazy. Thanks for the correction.

I hate it too-it drives me up the wall. But I guess I'll just have to live with it. :p

[W.O.D.]

so why did jobs PROMISE 3GHz, view the keynote.
The benchmarks were flawed, dodgy gcc compiler and settings and questionable configuration of the PC system they used with no details on BIOS/Windows settings. As i have 1st hand experience with many platfroms including the power, itanium, sparc and the opteron I know how each performs lets just say IBM were far from impresive. As I remember people were thinking that panther was 64-bit.

I know marketing and Apple is very good at it, but theres marketing and theres ************ lies and apple does the latter.

Army guy, I listened to your points in your posts until now, but the more you talk the more you appear to just be a troll. Especially with the "Let's just say IBM were far from impresive" So not only did you butcher the grammar on that, but now you claim that the awards that IBM has gotten (another one recently by the way, people) are just, what?, awards that Apple pressured these 3rd parties to give to IBM? Anyway, some of what you say is half true, but you really overstate the case. Folks, this is just another troll. Don't rubberneck looking at this guy's stuff -- just keep on moving.

[thatwendigo]

Army guy, I listened to your points in your posts until now, but the more you talk the more you appear to just be a troll. Especially with the "Let's just say IBM were far from impresive" So not only did you butcher the grammar on that, but now you claim that the awards that IBM has gotten (another one recently by the way, people) are just, what?, awards that Apple pressured these 3rd parties to give to IBM? Anyway, some of what you say is half true, but you really overstate the case. Folks, this is just another troll. Don't rubberneck looking at this guy's stuff -- just keep on moving.

You left out the all-important fact that Apple's testing agency published their methods, which completely invalidates another of army_guy's claims. The systems, their setups, and everything else were documented all the way through the bakeoff.

[DMann]

I sort of cheated. That's med school debt x 2 for my wife and I...

I am a little bit peeved at our hospital, actually... We used to use macs for medical image viewing because they were the best system out there... now that the Army has decided that we are going to be an "Army of One," they have gone to a total Windows environment. I can hardly get a good workflow, the servers, workstations, and image viewing systems are so freaking BUGGY. We use now these crappy Viewsonic flat panels with absolutely HORRIFIC viewing tolerances, or whatever the proper terminology is.
I tried to convince our IT department that we should s***can these pieces of junk and go back to the mac platform... dual G5s everywhere driving 23" LCDs for medical image viewing would be very nice.

Looking at DICOM images using freakin' Dells with Viewsonic monitors is like malpractice. OsiriX is a peachy DICOM viewer that would smoke using this new graphics card...

What a shame.........An idea -- try calling Apple, speak to their PR/Business department, and find out if they would be willing to loan a demo system to your hospital. I doubt this is common practice, but perhaps, with a little persuasion, Apple might consider extending a taste of the "Apple Experience" to start to expand their enterprise market-share...... just a far, FAR fetched thought...

[DMann]

I dont have to remind anyone here about apple lies, you know what iam talking about so dont act stuipid, I only have to mention promise of 3GHz, worlds fastest personal computer and that OSX is a 64-bit OS, these are only from the top of my head. And why are the PC benchmarks sites still waiting for review systems from Apple.....

The year is not over yet..... IBM is currently producing PPC980
chips, in tandem with POWER5. Fulfillment of the 3GHz promise
is not that far off..........

[Mercury]

If you both are on your way to becoming doctors, I think you can afford the measly 12K for a computer.


:rolleyes:

The Army doesn't pay that well, but...right. Doctors do get extra pay from normal officers, and they do get faster promotions and start off sooner, but it's still not as much as a civilian could make. Although, if they let you do internship and residency, then it's not bad...

Thinking about becoming a JAG to start off, if I don't know what I want to do and get no good offers, after law school.

Regardless, I think there are plenty of people here who'd sell their souls for dual 30"s.

[DMann]

I sort of cheated. That's med school debt x 2 for my wife and I...

I am a little bit peeved at our hospital, actually... We used to use macs for medical image viewing because they were the best system out there... now that the Army has decided that we are going to be an "Army of One," they have gone to a total Windows environment. I can hardly get a good workflow, the servers, workstations, and image viewing systems are so freaking BUGGY. We use now these crappy Viewsonic flat panels with absolutely HORRIFIC viewing tolerances, or whatever the proper terminology is.
I tried to convince our IT department that we should s***can these pieces of junk and go back to the mac platform... dual G5s everywhere driving 23" LCDs for medical image viewing would be very nice.

Looking at DICOM images using freakin' Dells with Viewsonic monitors is like malpractice. OsiriX is a peachy DICOM viewer that would smoke using this new graphics card...

Here is the number to contact Apple about getting a G5 system demo in your hospital: You can call Apple's Enterprise Account Rep Alan Chwang directly at 408-974-6481.

[sushi]

I sort of cheated. That's med school debt x 2 for my wife and I...

I am a little bit peeved at our hospital, actually... We used to use macs for medical image viewing because they were the best system out there... now that the Army has decided that we are going to be an "Army of One," they have gone to a total Windows environment. I can hardly get a good workflow, the servers, workstations, and image viewing systems are so freaking BUGGY. We use now these crappy Viewsonic flat panels with absolutely HORRIFIC viewing tolerances, or whatever the proper terminology is.
I tried to convince our IT department that we should s***can these pieces of junk and go back to the mac platform... dual G5s everywhere driving 23" LCDs for medical image viewing would be very nice.

Looking at DICOM images using freakin' Dells with Viewsonic monitors is like malpractice. OsiriX is a peachy DICOM viewer that would smoke using this new graphics card...
The Army has switched over to Mac servers running Apache in some areas.

VIDs are now using Macs again. Finally. NT4 was a joke.

In other places, Macs being used as Unix platforms.

While I realize that it is an uphill battle, please hang in there and keep pushing!

Sushi

[sushi]

Being American, I was not aware of that difference in grammar, although it still drives be crazy. Thanks for the correction.
Two countries separated by a common language! :D

Sushi

[davetrow1997]

Here is the number to contact Apple about getting a G5 system demo in your hospital: You can call Apple's Enterprise Account Rep Alan Chwang directly at 408-974-6481.

That's awesome. I am all about that... you should see the blasted system we have to read plain films in the intensive care unit right now. We are making clinical decisions based on these freakin' things. The IT guy was so incredibly nasty about the whole thing, too.

His quote: "I know some of you guys like those macs, but the Army has made a decision not to support them. That's all we have to talk about."

Now that the Army, via COLSA, has started to embrace the platform, and as another person mentioned, G5s running apache, I may have more luck.

[davetrow1997]

The Army doesn't pay that well, but...right. Doctors do get extra pay from normal officers, and they do get faster promotions and start off sooner, but it's still not as much as a civilian could make. Although, if they let you do internship and residency, then it's not bad...

Thinking about becoming a JAG to start off, if I don't know what I want to do and get no good offers, after law school.

Regardless, I think there are plenty of people here who'd sell their souls for dual 30"s.

My wife's a civilian.. in residency.. I'm in residency, myself.. The Army pays a 40K-70K premium for its physicians based on specialty, years in service, board certification, and additional voluntary obligation; this is on top of the regular officer's salary.

That translates to 60-80K (in residency)-195K (after 20 years, as a colonel living in DC doing thoracic surgery) (in other words, maxxed out on all compensation). Most Army docs make around 130K in mid-career. This is comparable to family practicioners, psychiatrists, and internal medicine docs in civilian practice.

The nice thing about having a Mac system in the hospital would be that there would be someone knowledgeable to bug... Because we'd have to hire someone to support it. Would have to be a person capable of handling everything cause I know those cheap IT bast**ds won't hire a Mac-only tech. I've also been trying to pitch the idea of using iChat as a way to connect our satellite clinics and handle some of the referral load by setting up VTC clinics... they also shot that down.

[sushi]

I've also been trying to pitch the idea of using iChat as a way to connect our satellite clinics and handle some of the referral load by setting up VTC clinics... they also shot that down.
Probably have to wait until Internet 2, or whatever it is going to be called.

IMHO, once the user can established an uninteruptable connection at X bandwidth, you will see this type of application use increase dramatically.

Sushi

[sushi]

Now that the Army, via COLSA, has started to embrace the platform, and as another person mentioned, G5s running apache, I may have more luck.
I think that it was me that you are referring to. AFAIK, they were using G4 based servers when the transistion occurred a while back. Most PC IT heads do not know about this it seems.

BTW, in order to help you, please let us know the arguments that are being presented. Then we can give you counter points to use in your discussion.

Sushi

[sushi]

His quote: "I know some of you guys like those macs, but the Army has made a decision not to support them. That's all we have to talk about."
Here's an idea...

Make a bet with him.

Bet him that the Army is using Macs. Then hopefully he will counter with they are not. Bet heavily. :D

Then have fun showing the examples. :D :D :D

I can give you some pictures of our VID which has G4's with 23 inch Cinema displays.

Sushi

[davetrow1997]

Here's an idea...

Make a bet with him.

Bet him that the Army is using Macs. Then hopefully he will counter with they are not. Bet heavily. :D

Then have fun showing the examples. :D :D :D

I can give you some pictures of our VID which has G4's with 23 inch Cinema displays.

Sushi

Sorry...
I was in a rush and was too lazy to look back at whom I was quoting. Now what's the VID, exactly? We use something called MEDWEB, which is, I'm assuming, sort of a web-based translator of DICOM images.

What were the points I was using? Gosh, you should have been there... mostly I was just red-faced and white-knuckled when that little peon was smugly dismissing me...

I stated (please correct me.. I'm not very knowledgeable.. sort of just bringing up some arguments I've heard before):

1) The interplatform compatibility is superb, allowing people who have preferences to work on macs versus PCs to pick their system at their leisure; that would improve morale and their personal workflow

2) The stability of the plaform running off UNIX is phenomenal.. this would allow a backup system in a number of circumstances... 1) a virus takes our Windows 2000 environment down 2) a security threat is identified for Windows that forces them to take it down for patching 3) a bug takes the system down

and on and on... and all of these things have happened so far.. and we were left with jack squat for computing... plus, every time the hospital tests its generators, the dirty current that gets sent briefly takes every computer in the hospital down because the cheap bastards don't have UPSs... after they boot back up they invariably are acting buggier and buggier, to the point where they just crash incessantly.

3) I never got to point #3 because by this time the little bastard had just been repeating over and over... I know some of you guys like those MACS (he said it condescendingly and dismissively), but the Army has decided that we are going to be operating in a Windows XP enviroment (which was delayed because it doesn't work with our new EMR (Electronic Medical Record).
:mad:

[davetrow1997]

Probably have to wait until Internet 2, or whatever it is going to be called.

IMHO, once the user can established an uninteruptable connection at X bandwidth, you will see this type of application use increase dramatically.

Sushi

We actually did a proof-of-concept test that went pretty well! We did two patient interviews using two laptops in different offices in the hospital. Unfortunately, one patient was a little... strange to begin with... and had a very paranoid reaction to it... was pretty funny. The other thought it was pretty amazing...

[sushi]

We actually did a proof-of-concept test that went pretty well! We did two patient interviews using two laptops in different offices in the hospital. Unfortunately, one patient was a little... strange to begin with... and had a very paranoid reaction to it... was pretty funny. The other thought it was pretty amazing...
It's all in the needles, man!

Seriously.

We soldiers are scared of you Docs poking us with a needle.

Even the combat hardened ones amonst us.

Something about a needle... :eek:

Sushi

[weezer160]

do you think a dual 2.5, with 1 GB RAM and the 6800 Ultra DLL would be an overkill for the old 17" monitor :cool: i'm just asking because those aluminum displays are much too expensive for me (as far as displays, perhaps later i will, though), and i plan on using my old 17" studio LCD monitor. :rolleyes:

[os10geek]

do you think a dual 2.5, with 1 GB RAM and the 6800 Ultra DLL would be an overkill for the old 17" monitor :cool: i'm just asking because those aluminum displays are much too expensive for me (as far as displays, perhaps later i will, though), and i plan on using my old 17" studio LCD monitor. :rolleyes:
I don't see why it would be any less overkill if you were buying a new display. I'm upgrading to a 6800U on my G5 1.8 (in benchmarks, the 6800 is roughly 5 times the speed of my current card), and I have a 17"er that I bought in September.

BTW, don't forget a DVI to ADC adapter (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71002/wo/ZG7CdFFPu8F53ZwBNujr8tyRKLf/1.4.0.6.10.11.6.1.13.0), if you're going to be using the old 17".

[Maggot]

Has anyone seen a DDL card for the PC that can power the 30 inch beast? None of the 6800 Ultra cards for the PC seem to mention DDL even though they might have two DVI outputs.

I have lurked on these boards for over a year for this monitor, looks like I might have to wait a few more months for a card to be available too. Should be worth the wait though.

[sushi]

Now what's the VID, exactly?
Used to be known as a Visual Information Center. Now it's known as a Visual Information Division, but has the same function.

They do things like official photos, presentations, and such for the command.


We use something called MEDWEB, which is, I'm assuming, sort of a web-based translator of DICOM images.
MEDWEB. Sorry, but I am not familiar with MEDWEB.


What were the points I was using? Gosh, you should have been there... mostly I was just red-faced and white-knuckled when that little peon was smugly dismissing me....
Typical PC centric IT person it sounds like.


1) The interplatform compatibility is superb, allowing people who have preferences to work on macs versus PCs to pick their system at their leisure; that would improve morale and their personal workflow
Good point.

Because PC dweebs have a hard time realizing something contradicatory to their beliefs, I generally put this point like this:

MSFT Office is great. I like using Excel, Word and PowerPoint. What is really cool, is that office is available for both the Mac and the PC.

<At this point, many of the before mentioned IT dweebs have a dumbfounded look of disbelief.>

I go on to state that I use MSFT Office for the Mac to create and edit a Word documents just like I do on the PC. I use either USB flash drive to transfer the files.


2) The stability of the plaform running off UNIX is phenomenal.. this would allow a backup system in a number of circumstances... 1) a virus takes our Windows 2000 environment down 2) a security threat is identified for Windows that forces them to take it down for patching 3) a bug takes the system down and on and on... and all of these things have happened so far.. and we were left with jack squat for computing... plus, every time the hospital tests its generators, the dirty current that gets sent briefly takes every computer in the hospital down because the cheap bastards don't have UPSs... after they boot back up they invariably are acting buggier and buggier, to the point where they just crash incessantly.
Again, good points.

I generally approach this in the following manner.

I start out discussing OS'es in a way not to reveal my Mac preference.

Then mention that Unix is a wonderful solid and stable OS. And how some organizations are switching form Windows to Linux. For example IBM and the Japanese government.

Then I mention how the new Mac OS is basically Unix with a GUI shell.

Again, dumbfounded looks. I mention that while the original Mac OS was entirely GUI based, the new one beginning with Mac OS X is based on Unix.


3) I never got to point #3 because by this time the little bastard had just been repeating over and over... I know some of you guys like those MACS (he said it condescendingly and dismissively), but the Army has decided that we are going to be operating in a Windows XP enviroment (which was delayed because it doesn't work with our new EMR (Electronic Medical Record). :mad:
I think that your IT Dweeb is referring to MEDCOM and not the Army.

There are plenty of examples where the Army is using Mac based systems such as:

- VID's
- Army Servers (as in THE Army Servers)
- Research environment
- MWR Marketing

...and some others.

Sorry for the delay in commenting. I missed this post somehow. Anyhow, I think that you are on the right track. The key is to get the ammo for each type of specific question. Don't be afraid to receive the question, and say something like, you make a good point, let me think about it.

Then get your ammo and launch both barrels.

BTW, Macs are now on the GSA schedule. So they are definitely not banned from purchase by Army units.

Well, I hope this helps.

Sushi

[os10geek]

Has anyone seen a DDL card for the PC that can power the 30 inch beast? None of the 6800 Ultra cards for the PC seem to mention DDL even though they might have two DVI outputs.
On the PC, it's one DVI (standard DVI, I believe), and a VGA port.

[Maggot]

On the PC, it's one DVI (standard DVI, I believe), and a VGA port.

Aye, some are that configuration and others are Dual DVI. But none are Dual Dual :)

If anyone sees one that is shout so I can put my order in.

[Cooknn]

On the PC, it's one DVI (standard DVI, I believe), and a VGA port.So why can't I run a PC card with my new 23" Cinema display? I don't need Dual Dual DVI and I don't plan on running more than one display. Sorry if I missed the answer to this somewhere else :o

[os10geek]

So why can't I run a PC card with my new 23" Cinema display? I don't need Dual Dual DVI and I don't plan on running more than one display. Sorry if I missed the answer to this somewhere else :o
Assuming that you mean "run a 23" Cinema off a PC card?" Of course you can...if you're using a PC. I doubt that you could buy a PC 6800 and run it in a Mac without some driver hacking/GPU hacking (You'll also need a DVI-to-ADC powerblock/converter)


Could you clarify what exactly your situation is?

[Cooknn]

Could you clarify what exactly your situation is?I would assume that nVidia will release OS X drivers since they are releasing the GeForce 6800 Ultra for the Mac. My thought was that maybe I could grab a less expensive 128MB PC card (http://www.gameve.com/gve/Store/ProductDetails.aspx?sku=VC-PNY-004) (half the price) and use the OS X drivers.

UPDATE: Just got off the phone with nVidia. The PC cards are architecturally different than the Mac card and are not compatible with the forthcoming OS X drivers. I guess that should have been obvious - but I needed to know :o

[PtMD]

Aye, some are that configuration and others are Dual DVI. But none are Dual Dual :)

If anyone sees one that is shout so I can put my order in.

There are two that I know of that have Dual-Link TMDS transmitters, the Quadro FX 4000 has Dual Dual Link DVI and the FX 3000 has Dual DVI but only one supports Dual Link.

Street price on these are high as they are flagship Quadros, around $1700/1400 respectively. :rolleyes:

I only hope we see some cheaper GF 6800 derivatives.

PNY has some info up on their site if you are interested:
http://www.pny.com/products/quadro/fx/4000fx.asp
http://www.pny.com/products/quadro/fx/3000fx.asp
http://www.pny.com/products/quadro/brochures/QuadroSpecSheet.pdf

Cheers,
PtMD

[MikeTheC]

As far as I can see, two Ultras with SLI would drive FOUR 30" displays ... with the load on all four dynamically readjusted between the two cards.

Too bad you can't daisy-chain the Ultras indefinitely ... think X-grid in a GPU?

Or maybe I need to get rich first.

You know, reading this, I am left wondering something. Back in the days of the Mac II, IIx, IIci, et al, you could have as many video cards as you had NuBus slots and extend your desktop indefinitely to that limit.

Does anyone here know if (hypothetically) that can still be done at this point? I mean, I know there's only just the one AGP slot, but if you put 2 or 3 high-performance Mac-compatible PCI video cards in, would it work and would it add to the sum total of your display?

On another thought, imagine a G5 with 6 AGP slots with their own busses, etc., and 6 of these Ultra 6800s in there. You could have 12 30" displays! Then, when you're flying a flight simulator, you would have three across the front with a forth over the middle, then 2 stacked on top of each other on each side, 2 behind you, and 2 mounted horizontally above you. Golly, that gets me excited...

It boggles the mind how many displays you could hypothetically connect if they were all just 23" models. Imagine 24 23" displays!

[/drool]

[zakee00]

Yes this card is Mac specific but PC versions are also becoming available from various vendors. The Ati X800 is also theoretically powerful enough to drive the 30in but drivers might not support it yet.

I suspect that the 6800 card may run at a conservative clock speed in order to reduce power requirements, heat, and noise. Nevertheless, I expect the perfomance to be phenomenal.

I am actually very dissapointed that Apple chose to use the 6800 Ultra over ATi's x800 XT. I have had verrryyyy bad experences with nVIDIA and don't really like them as a company very much...bad drivers too. Proformance-wise, the x800 XT and the 6800 Ultra are pretty much neck-and-neck. nVIDIA cards generally proforms better in OpenGL, maybe that is why Apple chose their card. But nVIDIA is just retarded, 500 WATT POWER SUPPLY??!?!? :eek: How is Apple going to deal with this card, + DUAL 2.5GHz G5's? :confused:

[BrianKonarsMac]

the 6800 is akin to the g5...it's a floating-point beast. which is what most games are based on, floating-point calculations. i too am an ATi fan, but this 6800 is really an amazing card, despite the obscene requirements.

[paulvee]

I've ordered the dual 2.0 with the stock 9600 card, along with the new 23" monitor.

I mainly do video editing in final cut, as well as heavy photoshop work. No gaming and no 3D stuff.

Would I benefit from this card? There's talk of benefiting from it once Tiger is released, but I'd love an explanation of why, given the apps that I use, it might be better.

I'm also worried about when it'll be available. Also, if I wait, would it be possible to buy one down the road and install it myself? How difficult is that?

Thanks for any answers or advice.

[yamabushi]

Does anyone here know if (hypothetically) that can still be done at this point? I mean, I know there's only just the one AGP slot, but if you put 2 or 3 high-performance Mac-compatible PCI video cards in, would it work and would it add to the sum total of your display?

On another thought, imagine a G5 with 6 AGP slots with their own busses, etc., and 6 of these Ultra 6800s in there.
I believe this is theoretically possible but probably not practical at this time. The cards need to communicate with each other quite a bit under certain scenarios. More than two 6800 cards connected together and using AGP could easily start to have serious latency and sychronization issues when accessing data stored on the other cards. Besides, at this point no one is really looking to provide new types of AGP solutions anyways. However, two 6800s seem to work just fine together using two PCI-express slots.

I am actually very dissapointed that Apple chose to use the 6800 Ultra over ATi's x800 XT. Proformance-wise, the x800 XT and the 6800 Ultra are pretty much neck-and-neck. nVIDIA cards generally proforms better in OpenGL, maybe that is why Apple chose their card.

Well, the 6800 chipset may have been available to them a little earlier for one thing. Also, the x800 XT seems to be designed primarily with PCI-express in mind so there may not have been as much support from Ati for an AGP version. Nvidia on the other hand designed the 6800 from the start as a primarily AGP product that also can do PCI-express via a bridge chip. Since Apple apparently isn't ready to switch to PCI-express quite yet, the 6800 may have been the better overall choice at this time. However I agree that the x800 XT is a great card and I hope it becomes available on the Mac in the near future.

[Knox]

You know, reading this, I am left wondering something. Back in the days of the Mac II, IIx, IIci, et al, you could have as many video cards as you had NuBus slots and extend your desktop indefinitely to that limit.

Does anyone here know if (hypothetically) that can still be done at this point? I mean, I know there's only just the one AGP slot, but if you put 2 or 3 high-performance Mac-compatible PCI video cards in, would it work and would it add to the sum total of your display?

I'm not sure if there is a limit to the number of cards, however you can certainly add more to get a larger desktop. I'm currently using 3 graphics cards (original AGP Radeon 9600 with the G5, Radeon 7000 PCI and Rage 128 PCI) which could give 5 monitors. I'm only using 4 at the moment but they work fine.

[yamabushi]

If you want to use a PCI graphics card in the extra slots, then the Ati 9200 is probably the best option available at the moment. I have seen both 32MB and 128MB versions advertised for sale. I suspect some better cards may be available in the near future but this card should be sufficient.

[PowerMacMan]

I've ordered the dual 2.0 with the stock 9600 card, along with the new 23" monitor.

I mainly do video editing in final cut, as well as heavy photoshop work. No gaming and no 3D stuff.

Would I benefit from this card? There's talk of benefiting from it once Tiger is released, but I'd love an explanation of why, given the apps that I use, it might be better.

I'm also worried about when it'll be available. Also, if I wait, would it be possible to buy one down the road and install it myself? How difficult is that?

Thanks for any answers or advice.

It's easy...

First you unlatch the latch in the back of the G5, then pull the side pannel off, then the plastic air deflector, then your there, you just plop the card in where the other one used to be, but read the PowerMac manual because it gives you the specifics, since there is some sort of latch in order to release the video card from the slot...

[wdlove]

It's easy...

First you unlatch the latch in the back of the G5, then pull the side panel off, then the plastic air deflector, then your there, you just plop the card in where the other one used to be, but read the PowerMac manual because it gives you the specifics, since there is some sort of latch in order to release the video card from the slot...

If I purchased it from the Apple Store, just to be safe I would have a Mac Genius do it for me. Would always want to be safe then sorry. Especially with the awesome G5.

[sushi]

You know, reading this, I am left wondering something. Back in the days of the Mac II, IIx, IIci, et al, you could have as many video cards as you had NuBus slots and extend your desktop indefinitely to that limit.
I believe that the limit was 6 displays total.

Sushi

[MikeTheC]

Never having served in the military, I can't imagine what it is like to deal with others when you have such things as chain-of-command and rank to deal with. Since we're still talking about human beings, though, I would assume there are still the same tendancies towards ego and ignorance.

In the civilian world, though, at least you can be more assertive and aggressive without worrying about charges of insubordination. How does this sort of thing likely play out in the military?

[wdlove]

Never having served in the military, I can't imagine what it is like to deal with others when you have such things as chain-of-command and rank to deal with. Since we're still talking about human beings, though, I would assume there are still the same tendencies towards ego and ignorance.

In the civilian world, though, at least you can be more assertive and aggressive without worrying about charges of insubordination. How does this sort of thing likely play out in the military?

I was on the medical side, working as a nurse. So we weren't affected as much by the chain of command. Just performed my nursing duties the same was as I did at the VA as a civilian. In the hospital, no matter the rank they were a patient. If a VIP Colonel or above was admitted they got a private room. They wanted to recover from their illness or surgery just like anyone else.

I did run into a problem with the chain of command once. Very scary till I straightened the problem out. It was when I was in the USAF Reserves. We were having a military party function. Our speaker was to be a General. My job was to pick him up at the airport, then take him to his quarters, to the function, and back to the airport. On a day off from work a sergeant in the reserve office called. "A colonel from headquarters called about our speaker. They are upset that no one notified them of the visit. Your need to get there and straighten out the situation." Luckily for me it all ended well. I just didn't realize that when a flag officer comes on the base that headquarters is to be notified for permission. After my meeting permission was granted. The function occurred with military precession.

[homerjward]

On another thought, imagine a G5 with 6 AGP slots with their own busses, etc., and 6 of these Ultra 6800s in there. You could have 12 30" displays! Then, when you're flying a flight simulator, you would have three across the front with a forth over the middle, then 2 stacked on top of each other on each side, 2 behind you, and 2 mounted horizontally above you. Golly, that gets me excited...

It boggles the mind how many displays you could hypothetically connect if they were all just 23" models. Imagine 24 23" displays!

[/drool]
11.1 channel surround video!!!!!!
the one monitor you would actually use, then the 11 for ego purposes. just like surround sound. i use mono sound on just about everything 'cept my ipod and im fine. didnt dolby work together with apple and mpeg on aac? they could do some more work w/ mpeg to get a surround video standard. imagine a 71" sony dlp in the ceiling, in all 4 walls...kinda like fahrenheit 451

[BrianKonarsMac]

If I purchased it from the Apple Store, just to be safe I would have a Mac Genius do it for me. Would always want to be safe then sorry. Especially with the awesome G5. Are you serious? What is there to "be safe" from? You undo a screw...pull out the original card, drop in the new one, PUSH DOWN, re-insert the screw, and close the case. If you can screw in a lightbulb...you can change the components of your computer.

[yamabushi]

Are you serious? What is there to "be safe" from? You undo a screw...pull out the original card, drop in the new one, PUSH DOWN, re-insert the screw, and close the case. If you can screw in a lightbulb...you can change the components of your computer.
It may seem simple but I have seen several people mess it up. I know it isn't difficult if you know what you are doing but for those who lack confidence in their own ability getting help isn't a bad idea.

[sushi]

Are you serious? What is there to "be safe" from? You undo a screw...pull out the original card, drop in the new one, PUSH DOWN, re-insert the screw, and close the case. If you can screw in a lightbulb...you can change the components of your computer.
Some folks aren't comfortable doing this. While some of us are.

I would suggest doing it whichever way you feel comfortable.

Sushi

[brykken]

This is interesting, or maybe not... when I configured a BTO with the 6800, the computer estimated ship date was only 7-10 business days. However, when I checked on the vid card by itself, ship date still said late august. Oh well, thought someone might care.

[Shagrat]

I've ordered the dual 2.0 with the stock 9600 card, along with the new 23" monitor.

I mainly do video editing in final cut, as well as heavy photoshop work. No gaming and no 3D stuff.

Would I benefit from this card? There's talk of benefiting from it once Tiger is released, but I'd love an explanation of why, given the apps that I use, it might be better.

I'm also worried about when it'll be available. Also, if I wait, would it be possible to buy one down the road and install it myself? How difficult is that?

Thanks for any answers or advice.

I think you will find that this will depend on the video you are editing. If you are doing mainly DV stuff, then you probably wouldn't need the new card. (Hey, I do DV on my 533 SP G4!)
If you are editing HD with FCP4 HD, then it probably would make a difference but mainly down to the much greater potential upstream/downstream bandwidth of PCI-Express. Having said that, it will be interesting to see how Core Video (and Image) scales with both the new card and/or PCI-express.

[wdlove]

Some folks aren't comfortable doing this. While some of us are.

I would suggest doing it whichever way you feel comfortable.

Sushi

Thank you sushi. With a brand new machine I would rather be safe than sorry. Give me more confidence to have a Apple Technician do an installation. If I were to break something then it would be my fault.

[sushi]

Thank you sushi.

:D

If I were to break something then it would be my fault.

More importantly if you were to break your computer, you would not be able to use it, and that would sux!

Sushi

[wdlove]

:D



More importantly if you were to break your computer, you would not be able to use it, and that would sux!

Sushi

Exactly, that is why I prefer to be safe. From previous conversations, if an Apple Technician damages the Mac it's on them. They are professional so it gives me confidence and security. :D

[weezer160]

this sucks; i was all fired up about the 6800 ultra, and then i came across this article on the same website that showed the 6800 ultra kicking the 9800 xt's a$$ - http://www20.graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040504/index.html

i hope it comes out soon on the mac platform. i'd be willing to sell my 6800 ultra (when it comes out) to get this card.

[Trekkie]

one can only hope that with the advent of DVI support that more video cards will support Mac OS X without needing a special 'mac' version. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I'm torn, trying to decide between the 9600 as a 'good enough' or to go get the 6800 now. My challenge is I need a monitor too right now and it's freakin expensive for the 23" so I'm probably going to go with the 20.

[Little Endian]

this sucks; i was all fired up about the 6800 ultra, and then i came across this article on the same website that showed the 6800 ultra kicking the 9800 xt's a$$ - http://www20.graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040504/index.html

i hope it comes out soon on the mac platform. i'd be willing to sell my 6800 ultra (when it comes out) to get this card.

The X800 XT Platinum is IMO a better choice especially if you are not going to be buying a 30 inch Cinema Display anytime soon and don't need the DDL. Hopefully the X800 XT Platinum comes to the Mac Platform by the end of the year, it should be $100 cheaper than the 6800 Ultra DDL and perform more or less the same or better. Most importantly the X800XT Platinum will run much cooler=quieter and needs only to occupy it's own AGP slot unlike the 6800 Ultra cards that enroach upon a PCI slot

[sushi]

Exactly, that is why I prefer to be safe. From previous conversations, if an Apple Technician damages the Mac it's on them. They are professional so it gives me confidence and security. :D
So true.

A long time ago, I upgraded my PB170 with a larger HD.

I was going to do it myself, but thought it would be safer for the tech to do it. Well low and behold, after the tech replaced everything he did a test. There was a short and the very flimsy/thin HD cable burned where it had shorted. I figure that the same thing would have happened to me, only in this case the fix was free since the tech did it vice me.

Leaned a lot through that experience.

Sushi

[os10geek]

Most importantly the X800XT Platinum will run much cooler=quieter and needs only to occupy it's own AGP slot unlike the 6800 Ultra cards that enroach upon a PCI slot
You do, of course, realize that the reason the cards block a PCI slot is not because they need more bandwidth; it's because the heat sinks make the card too thick to fit inside its allotted space inside the computer. That said, there is no reason that the X800 will be any different in that respect.

[wdlove]

So true.

A long time ago, I upgraded my PB170 with a larger HD.

I was going to do it myself, but thought it would be safer for the tech to do it. Well low and behold, after the tech replaced everything he did a test. There was a short and the very flimsy/thin HD cable burned where it had shorted. I figure that the same thing would have happened to me, only in this case the fix was free since the tech did it vice me.

Leaned a lot through that experience.

Sushi

There is nothing like first hand experience. I'm encouraged that everything worked alright for you sushi. To look at what others are saying, there are many on this board that are professional, which gives them the confidence. I think that the Apple Store professional staff is there for customers like us.

[sushi]

There is nothing like first hand experience. I'm encouraged that everything worked alright for you sushi. To look at what others are saying, there are many on this board that are professional, which gives them the confidence. I think that the Apple Store professional staff is there for customers like us.
Understand.

Normally I would do it myself. But sometimes, having a tech do it is well worth the time and effort.

Good luck in your situation.

Sushi

[sushi]

There is nothing like first hand experience. I'm encouraged that everything worked alright for you sushi. To look at what others are saying, there are many on this board that are professional, which gives them the confidence. I think that the Apple Store professional staff is there for customers like us.
I forgot to mention, but I believe that the cable was something like 10,000 yen at the time. So it would have cost me close to 100 bucks had it happened to me!

Sushi

[yamabushi]

You do, of course, realize that the reason the cards block a PCI slot is not because they need more bandwidth; it's because the heat sinks make the card too thick to fit inside its allotted space inside the computer. That said, there is no reason that the X800 will be any different in that respect.

The X800 runs cooler than the previous generation Ati powerhouse, the 9800. Ati probably has the option to keep the Mac version of the X800 thin enough to occupy just a single slot space. This would benefit them because it would increase the odds of Apple choosing it for the base model of the next revision of the PowerMac.

[wdlove]

The X800 runs cooler than the previous generation Ati powerhouse, the 9800. Ati probably has the option to keep the Mac version of the X800 thin enough to occupy just a single slot space. This would benefit them because it would increase the odds of Apple choosing it for the base model of the next revision of the PowerMac.

Why not just add the best graphics card to the best Power Mac now? I don't really see any reason to wait.

[yamabushi]

Why not just add the best graphics card to the best Power Mac now? I don't really see any reason to wait.
The timing of the release of the X800 would be up to Ati. I can only guess at their reasoning for delaying a launch on the Mac platform. I don't see any pressing reason why they would have to wait. I do think that they would be more succesful by squeezing it to take up less space than the GF6800 or R9800 if possible rather than compete for even better game frame rates.

[ewinemiller]

The timing of the release of the X800 would be up to Ati. I can only guess at their reasoning for delaying a launch on the Mac platform. I don't see any pressing reason why they would have to wait. I do think that they would be more succesful by squeezing it to take up less space than the GF6800 or R9800 if possible rather than compete for even better game frame rates.
Seems from the news that ATI can't produce enough cards to keep the PC side stocked. Right now there is no reason for them to put a further strain on demand by adding a Mac edition into the mix.

[Maggot]

btw ATI's support for dual screens is not so good, i.e. you only get 3d capability on one screen with their desktop range.

As a PC user I am getting impatient for an announcement regarding a DDL card from either vendor that is not workstation price . Come on - I want that 30 inch screen.

....or I could buy a mac ;)

[Little Endian]

You do, of course, realize that the reason the cards block a PCI slot is not because they need more bandwidth; it's because the heat sinks make the card too thick to fit inside its allotted space inside the computer. That said, there is no reason that the X800 will be any different in that respect.

The PC Version of the Radeon X800XT occupies only one slot, it runs much cooler and uses a low profile heat sink.

[wnurse]

The $599 NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL card that Apple introduced on Monday represents a significantly improved graphics card now available to Mac users.

Previously, the best card available to Mac users was the ATI Radeon 9800 XT which adds $300 to the cost of a build-to-order PowerMac G5. The new GeForce 6800 adds another $150 to that cost, but delivers significant performance boosts.

Tom's Hardware (http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/index.html) provides a review of the PC version of the card. The card appears to represent a generational jump rather than an incremental upgrade:



The specially engineered Mac version of the card also provides support for Dual DVI connectors -- providing support for the new 30" Apple Display. In fact, it comes with two Dual DVI connectors, allowing users to drive two 30" Apple Displays.

Halo Benchmarks (http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-40.html) at Tom's Hardware.

Toms benchmarks are for the 6800 ultra, not for the 6800 ultra ddl. The DDL will be much faster than the ultra.

[os10geek]

Toms benchmarks are for the 6800 ultra, not for the 6800 ultra ddl. The DDL will be much faster than the ultra.
That's absolutely false. The only difference between it and the PC-side Ultra is that it has different diplay connectors on the back of the card. There's no architectural/speed difference at all.


And if the DLL was faster, why isn't it available on the PC side? :rolleyes:

[paulvee]

Please excuse my ignorance, but I'd rather ask what feels like a dumb question than sit in the dark.

If I were to get a 6800 card for my new Dual 2.0 G5, would I be able to just pop the 9600XT out of it and pop it *in* to my old Dual 1.25 G4?

I've been looking for the answer online for a couple of hours and can't find it on the ATI site or any Mac boards.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[slughead]

the 9800xt requires 8x AGP, I don't believe the DP1.25 G4 has more than 4x

[slughead]

And if the DLL was faster, why isn't it available on the PC side? :rolleyes:

Moreover, when running 2 monitors, I bet it runs MUCH slower.

[paulvee]

the 9800xt requires 8x AGP, I don't believe the DP1.25 G4 has more than 4x

Thanks, but my question was about the 9600XT....

Still the same answer?

Thanks.

[slughead]

Thanks, but my question was about the 9600XT....

Still the same answer?

Thanks.

Yes, that too requires 8x, sorry I misread 6's and 8's when reading from this monitor.

[numark]

Kind of veering from the current train of thought here, but has anyone else talked to Apple about when the G5s w/ 6800s might start shipping?

I ordered a DP2.0 w/ 6800 a few days ago, and got buyer's remorse and called ADC to change it to a DP2.5. However, when I talked to the (very nice) woman, she said that production of my current order should be done "in the next few days." Hopefully that means that the August 20th date everyone's being quoted is true for the 6800s as well (and will be even better, considering mine is quoted as August 31st, but she indicated quite possibly an "earlier" ship date than that, though she was reluctant to say anything more).

At any rate, could the 6800 be ready to ship very soon? Just wondering if anyone else had the same experience if they called up Apple for anything.

[paulvee]

Yes, that too requires 8x, sorry I misread 6's and 8's when reading from this monitor.

Thanks for the reply, Slughead.

I did a lot of research today, spoke with lots of people and, finally, DUH, took the card from my G5 and opened the G4. Yeah, it will not go in.

More phone calls, etc. Turns out that the only card I can get to go in there now that will support Motion would be the retail version of the ATI Radeon 9800 Mac Edition. Man, i wish I could get the OEM version somewhere. Since I already have the Apple DVI to ADC connector and I can get the cards on eBay for about 250 clams, it's an option, but I'd have to do hook it into the power supply via the supplied "Y" connector. Not a big deal, but they do stress how you need to have enough power, a 300 watt power supply, etc, and I already have 4 hard drives in that machine. I wonder if it would make a difference? I wish I could find an OEM version somewhere, but I suppose that would draw the same power, just without having to use the external cable.

The 9600 I could sell on ebay if I get the GeForce 6800. And I worry about *that*, too, since I have a G5Jam installed. I think thermal issues would be okay and I would imagine that the 6800 is no longer than the 9600, which would be the big issue.

Well, I have to think about all this some more. It's a lot of money and I'm not a gamer, just a video artist.

Ugh.

Thanks to all, and I welcome any thoughts, opinions or rants.

[wjchan]

OK I understand that now so 1 DUAL Link DVI is actually two DVI's merged into the same connection?

Not really. A dual-link DVI has 2 sets of data channels. One channel carries the odd pixels and the other carries the even pixels. So you can't split the channels out and drive 2 monitors.

[macsrus]

Nice card... a dual 30 iinch would be cool...
I guess if you have the money to burn... why not

[army_guy]

Toms benchmarks are for the 6800 ultra, not for the 6800 ultra ddl. The DDL will be much faster than the ultra.

Err no, how can that be if the cards are the same, the ULTRA is officially the fastest card, and is clocked the same as the PC version, it wouldnt make sense for NVIDIA to provide apple with the highest clocked (ULTRA EXTREME etc.) parts since these are specificaly targeted at enthusiasts.

Also there are higher clocked cards for the PC 500MHz core 1.2GHz+ Memory, the pc is also getting SLI where as the MAC is not and has no plans to do so.

[dmglover]

Has anyone gotten received this card yet. Interested in the performace boost. I have the 1st gen G5 dual 2.0 with the ATI 9600 and have the nVidia card on order.

[mklos]

Has anyone gotten received this card yet. Interested in the performace boost. I have the 1st gen G5 dual 2.0 with the ATI 9600 and have the nVidia card on order.

The shipment of the card has been delayed until the middle of October. This is also the reason why Apple has delayed the shipment of the 30" Cinema Display until mid October.

[dmglover]

My order for the 6800 Ultra DDL still shows shipping Sept 17. I guess I should anxiously await my email from apple telling me my order is delayed.

[wdlove]

The shipment of the card has been delayed until the middle of October. This is also the reason why Apple has delayed the shipment of the 30" Cinema Display until mid October.

What has happened to delay the NVIDA 6800 until the middle of October? This doesn't sound like its the fault of Apple.

[dmglover]

My on-line order just changed to a ship date of October 15th.

[arobasefr]

Thanks to MACBIDOUILLE.COM once again !

http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2004-09-26#9593

Download link: http://apple.speedera.net/download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/Mac_OS_X/downloads/022-1932.20040921.VDN88/NVIDIAGeForce6800.dmg

:)
:D

[wdlove]

Thanks to MACBIDOUILLE.COM once again !

http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2004-09-26#9593

Download link: http://apple.speedera.net/download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/Mac_OS_X/downloads/022-1932.20040921.VDN88/NVIDIAGeForce6800.dmg

:)
:D

The first link was in French. The second link I got this message: NVIDIA_GeForce6800_Ultra_DDL cannot be installed on this computer.

This software is incompatible with this model Macintosh.

[broken_keyboard]

I have been looking through the installer package and it seems to contain updated Radeon drivers also.

The Radeon9700.kext (10.3.5):
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
<key>BuildVersion</key>
<string>4</string>
<key>CFBundleShortVersionString</key>
<string>1.3.28</string>
<key>CFBundleVersion</key>
<string>3.2.8</string>
<key>ProjectName</key>
<string>GraphicsDrivers</string>
<key>SourceVersion</key>
<string>32806</string>
</dict>
</plist>

The Radeon9700.kext (installer):
<dict>
<key>BuildVersion</key>
<string>1</string>
<key>CFBundleShortVersionString</key>
<string>1.3.30</string>
<key>CFBundleVersion</key>
<string>3.3.0</string>
<key>ProjectName</key>
<string>GraphicsDrivers</string>
<key>SourceVersion</key>
<string>33019</string>
</dict>

I'd like to install it. Does anyone know if this apple.speedera.net is an offical Apple download location?

[dmglover]

I would like to also know if this is a good driver. Anyone have any updates on the 6800? Anybody received a G5 with it BTO?

[broken_keyboard]

I would like to also know if this is a good driver. Anyone have any updates on the 6800? Anybody received a G5 with it BTO?

I went ahead and installed it, works fine...
Files on the Apple support site seem to go through this speedera site so it looks like it's real Apple stuff.

[VASTman]

Well, I might have some good news for everyone waiting on the 6800 - I just got off the phone from Apple Australia - the guy seemed to know what he was talking about which isn't normal, anyway he told me they currently have 212 6800's on backorder in Australia, and that the first shipment of 50 6800's would be arriving on Oct. 5th. Apparently, I was one of the first 50 to order (in australia), and so my 6800 would be shipping Oct. 6. This seems a little strange, since I only ordered on Aug 20, so hopefully this is a good sign for all those people who've been waiting for this card since June! I'm cautiously optimistic about the ship date, only because the sales guy seemed sure they'd be getting them on the 5th, although I know that there are lots of people who ordered before me who have shipping dates around the 15th.

Also, this is for a 6800 upgrade kit, not a BTO in a G5.

[dmglover]

Thanks for the update. Hopefully the timetable is the same for us in the USA. I am showing Oct 15 on my outstanding order. I am am going to install in my 1st Gen G5 Dual 2.0. I currently have the ATI 9600. I have ugraded the Hard Drives to 2 - 74G Western Digital Raptors Raid 0 and have upgraded the memory. I guess this will be it!

[thedogcow]

any updated news regarding the 6800?

[wdlove]

any updated news regarding the 6800?

I was looking for some updated news also. It doesn't seem that any G5's are arriving with them yet.

[Mr. Anderson]

I was looking for some updated news also. It doesn't seem that any G5's are arriving with them yet.

ha! So you're thinking of getting one of these too? Can I ask what you need it for?

It is sad that its taking so long, though. Hopefully when I get around to ordering my new machine there won't be any delays....

D

[30Inches]

Who will see the first 6800 card. I think the earliest estimates I've seen now is 10/22. Anyone with a earlier date?

[Dont Hurt Me]

I got a 6800, who cares its not in a Mac this is a great card and seems to run pretty cool but it does have that alien ice on it. you know those aliens allways over engineering. ;)

[iriejedi]

I'm still locked on the 15th.... b ut that does not mean anything....

:-)

Who will see the first 6800 card. I think the earliest estimates I've seen now is 10/22. Anyone with a earlier date?

[dmglover]

I am also still showing 10/15. Talked with Apple today and asked if the date was going to move again. I was told the date was good. (Of course, last month the date was good until that date, then it moved.) I asked if any nVidia 6800's had shipped. She said they have shipped with the G5. I sure would lke to know if this is correct!!!

[wdlove]

ha! So you're thinking of getting one of these too? Can I ask what you need it for?

It is sad that its taking so long, though. Hopefully when I get around to ordering my new machine there won't be any delays....

D

My wife is pushing for one more than I am. I'm still ambivalent about the benefit due to the cost. She wants to have the 30" display, thinks that it will be awesome as an entertainment center. She is also concerned that my G4 will die and I won't have a computer, threatens me that I can't use her PowerBook.

[Mr. Anderson]

She wants to have the 30" display, thinks that it will be awesome as an entertainment center.

That would be quite nice, I have to admit. But I'd make sure you like the 30" LCDs and they don't have any issues in the first version. Besides, they're still not available....I'd love to see one in person.

D

[klaus]

I asked if any nVidia 6800's had shipped. She said they have shipped with the G5. I sure would lke to know if this is correct!!!

Yes, they are, some posters on the G5 shippng thread have their shipping notice in their mailbox since today. with the 6800 inside.


cheers

[iriejedi]

I'm still scheduled for 10/15 for my upgrade kit - BUT may just maybe this will be THE ONLY item besides the APPLE CARE package that shippied before the due date... instead of the 'On or AFTER" date we have been geting strung along with all these weeks!


Yes, they are, some posters on the G5 shippng thread have their shipping notice in their mailbox since today. with the 6800 inside.


cheers

[relimw]

Yes, they are, some posters on the G5 shippng thread have their shipping notice in their mailbox since today. with the 6800 inside.


The question is klaus, has your's actually shown up at your door yet? I'm not ordering anything until your's arrives :D

Besides, by then the dual 3GHz that Steve promised will be released ;)

[klaus]

The question is klaus, has your's actually shown up at your door yet? I'm not ordering anything until your's arrives :D

Besides, by then the dual 3GHz that Steve promised will be released ;)

Lol, that's true, but I hope you don't think mine has a 6800 in it, because it didn't. Just to make sure :)

cheers!

[iriejedi]

Yeah - if his has a 6800 card in it we will start calling him Santa Klaus - as HE is the only true prerson who ever get first dibs on presents!

Mine still says 10/15 but my hopes are 12/25!

Lol, that's true, but I hope you don't think mine has a 6800 in it, because it didn't. Just to make sure :)

cheers!

[klaus]

Well, maybe our good friends in Ireland saw a sweet 6800 nvidia card, and decided to pop it in this lonely sitting G5 in the back of the warehouse. They didn't have anything else to do so maybe they left it in there when Steve walked in and nearly caught them!

I'll let you guys know if I'll be able to play Santa for you guys, if so, you can buy me lots of candy and carots for my horse, and maybe, just maybe, i'll let you play with my g5 and 6800!

:eek:


no seriously, mine has a 9600xt in it :D

[relimw]

no seriously, mine has a 9600xt in it :D

klaus, for all the trouble and wait you've had to endure, you should make Apple give you a 6800. Although, I wouldn't ask them to hold shipment of your G5 for it :D

[klaus]

Although, I wouldn't ask them to hold shipment of your G5 for it :D

Hehe, yeah, that would be a bad jugement call from me if i'd let them do that :D i'll hang in here until you guys give a green light on the cards, and uncle steve tops a bit off the price :p

[Robin Hood]

I just received the following email a little while ago. I ordered on 07/19.

The following products shipped on 10/07/2004. Transit time will
depend upon whether you have chosen standard or premium freight
options. If your order is shipping standard freight, it should arrive
within 10 days of shipment.

Product # Product Description Qty Ext Price
__________ ________________________________________ ____ ________________

_________________________________________________________________________
Z0AC 2.5DPG5 CTO 1
With the following configuration:

Processor 065-4803 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
Memory 065-5114 2GB MB DDR400 (PC3200)-4x512
Hard Drive 065-4983 2X250GB Serial ATA-7200rpm
Optical Drive 065-4928 8x Super Drive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
Graphic Support 065-5128 NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL
Gigabit Ethernet PCI 065-5080 None
Fibre Chl PCI 065-4491 None
Modem 065-5168 56k V.92 Modem
BlueTooth 065-4985 Bluetooth Module
Airport 065-1899 None
Keyboard Language 065-4923 Apple Keyboard & Mouse
Mac OS Language 065-4897 Mac OS X
Server Mac OS Language 065-4494 None
Custom SW I 065-4683 None
Custom SW II 065-4681 None
Country Kit 065-4894 Country Kit

[cedsim]

I just received the following email a little while ago. I ordered on 07/19.

The following products shipped on 10/07/2004. Transit time will
depend upon whether you have chosen standard or premium freight
options. If your order is shipping standard freight, it should arrive
within 10 days of shipment.

Product # Product Description Qty Ext Price
__________ ________________________________________ ____ ________________

_________________________________________________________________________
Z0AC 2.5DPG5 CTO 1
With the following configuration:

Processor 065-4803 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
Memory 065-5114 2GB MB DDR400 (PC3200)-4x512
Hard Drive 065-4983 2X250GB Serial ATA-7200rpm
Optical Drive 065-4928 8x Super Drive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
Graphic Support 065-5128 NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL
Gigabit Ethernet PCI 065-5080 None
Fibre Chl PCI 065-4491 None
Modem 065-5168 56k V.92 Modem
BlueTooth 065-4985 Bluetooth Module
Airport 065-1899 None
Keyboard Language 065-4923 Apple Keyboard & Mouse
Mac OS Language 065-4897 Mac OS X
Server Mac OS Language 065-4494 None
Custom SW I 065-4683 None
Custom SW II 065-4681 None
Country Kit 065-4894 Country Kit

Wait a minute you are telling me they are shipping your machine BTO with the 6800 you didn't have to split it up??? Wow so I guess all of us who ordered 3-4 months ago are still supposed to wait. Congrats to you but what does this mean to us stand alone Nvidia 6800s?? :confused:

[dmglover]

Well my on-line order still shows on or before October 15th for my ship date of the nVidia 6800 card. Let's hope it ships!!!


Original G5 2.0
ATI 9600 Pro
Western Digital 74G Drives (2) RAID 0 Configuration
4G Memory
M-Audio Delta DiO 24/96 Audio Card
LaCie Big Disk Extreme 500G
Apple 20" Aluminum Cinema Display
Bose Companion 3 Speakers
iPod 40G 3G
Apple Bluetooth Keyboard
Apple iSight
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 2.0

[CeeGee]

Don't know what the deal is but according to the scores over at xbench my 6800 is getting it's ass handed to it by the ATi cards. It's funny that I thought the nVidia was supposed to be a more powerful card hence the $600 price tag.

[dmglover]

Did you upload your test? What is the name of your system. I would like to look at your resuls. Sounds like a driver issue. I have the 6800 on a PC and my son has the 9800xt...the 6800 is much faster.

[CeeGee]

I didn't upload my results. If I remember I will rerun XBench and upload them tonight.

[keysersoze]

I didn't upload my results. If I remember I will rerun XBench and upload them tonight.

FYI: It is widely known that xBench SUCKS for determining video card performance. Go to barefeats.com and search around for better tests, using halo or Unreal Tournament. Good Luck~

[keysersoze]

FYI: It is widely known that xBench SUCKS for determining video card performance. Go to barefeats.com and search around for better tests, using halo or Unreal Tournament. Good Luck~

Here's some stats on the 6800 vs. other cards, new from Barefeats today:

http://www.barefeats.com/gef6800.html

The software test program is Santaduck... just go to santaduck.com/

No, I'm not kidding :)

[odo]

Anyone care to try the Cinebench test? http://www.cinebench.com
There is already one test with a preproduction model on http://www.3dfluff.com/mash/cbtop.php
Although the 6800 may have all this power onboard, when the drivers and Apples OGL-implementation are not fully optimised there is not much use of working with this expensive card in f.e. Cinema 4D. I bet it really shines with Motion and also for games the situation might be quite different. And hey 10.3.6 is around the corner...

[Dont Hurt Me]

Interesting that flyby,Dual 2.5 G5 gets 208. My AMD 3500+ gets 205 in the flyby with a 6800GT in case anyone may be interested for comparison purposes.

[Corrupted]

Interesting that flyby,Dual 2.5 G5 gets 208. My AMD 3500+ gets 205 in the flyby with a 6800GT in case anyone may be interested for comparison purposes.

how you do a flyby test?

[dmglover]

This may not be a valid comparison but the 6800 on my PC running cinebench and the 9600 on the G5. I would expect to get the same kind of results when I get my 6800 for the G5.

Processor : Apple PowerMac G5
MHz : 2000
Number of CPUs : 2
Operating System : OS X 10.3.5
Graphics Card : ATI 9600 Pro
Resolution : 1680 x 1050
Color Depth : Millions
Rendering (Single CPU): 287 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 500 CB-CPU
Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.74
Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 276 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 776 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 1443 CB-GFX
OpenGL Speedup: 5.23

Processor : ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe
MHz : Intel 478 Socket 3400
Number of CPUs : 2
Operating System : Windows XP SP2
Graphics Card : nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra
Resolution : 1280 x 1024
Color Depth : 32 Bit
Rendering (Single CPU): 341 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 403 CB-CPU
Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.18
Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 348 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 1533 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 3614 CB-GFX
OpenGL Speedup: 10.38

[odo]

This may not be a valid comparison but the 6800 on my PC running cinebench and the 9600 on the G5. I would expect to get the same kind of results when I get my 6800 for the G5.

Processor : Apple PowerMac G5
MHz : 2000
Number of CPUs : 2
Operating System : OS X 10.3.5
Graphics Card : ATI 9600 Pro
Resolution : 1680 x 1050
Color Depth : Millions
Rendering (Single CPU): 287 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 500 CB-CPU
Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.74
Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 276 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 776 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 1443 CB-GFX
OpenGL Speedup: 5.23

Processor : ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe
MHz : Intel 478 Socket 3400
Number of CPUs : 2
Operating System : Windows XP SP2
Graphics Card : nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra
Resolution : 1280 x 1024
Color Depth : 32 Bit
Rendering (Single CPU): 341 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 403 CB-CPU
Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.18
Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 348 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 1533 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 3614 CB-GFX
OpenGL Speedup: 10.38

I wouldn't count on the same OGL values as you get on the PC. See on http://www.3dfluff.com/mash/cbtop.php for what you can expect.
Unfortunatly OGL is at the moment better implemented on PC then on MAC. The rendertimes in Cinebench are not influenced by the graphics card, so only take note of the OpenGL scores.

[Dont Hurt Me]

how you do a flyby test?my system came with a bunch of benches they ran on it before it was shipped and that was one but it drops big time in the botmatch. they did some games i never heard of.
you can turn on frames with the tilde key. I dont remember the exact command.

[dmglover]

I just got confirmation that my 6800 will be here on the 19th. You would think they would have overnighted the card since I have waited so long.
I will let you know how it performs.

[bigdz68]

I just got confirmation that my 6800 will be here on the 19th. You would think they would have overnighted the card since I have waited so long.
I will let you know how it performs.
Ya that is weird. I guess the gentleman who handled my order hooked me up since I got an email saying it was sent out on the 13th and will be here the 14th! TODAY! Wont be able to enjoy it til the late evening tho since I will be seeing Bob Dylan tonite! Then home for some quality gaming...good thing my midterms are done! Happily awaiting my $405 video card that should have come with the original order....oh well...long story short...Im happy and Apple took care of me. Cant be happier...well maybe with a Mac version of Quake 3! :D

[Xircom]

... in Tokyo, Japan. Very pleased. Forgot to update the SW before installing the card - but after this is done - runs very smooth. Now about to test ! Greetings, Michael :D

[iriejedi]

Hi DMG -

What was your original ship date for the card?

Was it a part of the free 9600 and postponed 6800 offer? I'm scheduled on the 15th but I'm only slightly optimistic at this point.

THanks in advance

Irie

I just got confirmation that my 6800 will be here on the 19th. You would think they would have overnighted the card since I have waited so long.
I will let you know how it performs.

[dmglover]

I ordered it the 1st of July! I am still aggrevated Apple did not overnight. Of course, I won't care on the 19th when it arrives.

[recursivejon]

Woot!!!!!! the 6800 Ultra SHIPPED!!!!!!

its about time! :cool:

[broken_keyboard]

Another shipped 6800 here - order date: 8/8
(ordered separately, not with new Mac and not with 30")

[bigdz68]

Mine didnt get here yesterday but the Tracking # says its on the FedEx truck now! :D YAY! :D Should have it installed by the end of the night! :D

[iriejedi]

What Software did you need to update? Normal SW Update stuff? Just curious.... mine arrived today and I have yet to open the box - kinda unsure what to expect inside....

Thanks!

IJ

... in Tokyo, Japan. Very pleased. Forgot to update the SW before installing the card - but after this is done - runs very smooth. Now about to test ! Greetings, Michael :D

[recursivejon]

this thing is sick, and hahaha i installed it first without installing the software from the cd... so i had to swap it again with the 9600XT, install the stuff, and put the 6800 back in

haha... i can see a difference, and there are none of those "ripple" effects while scrolling things XD

[bigdz68]

Well I got it installed finally! Only dropped two screws! Man did anyone notice that when u drop a screw it goes down to the bottom to be lost in nowhere land! I tried for 30 minutes to get them out with magnetic screwdrivers, toothpicks, pencaps, and without ripping apart the whole system...they can just stay there!

As for the card it is sweet...and HUGE! I also installed a cold cathode kit with two 12" tubes. Only problem is the wiring to the tubes had to slide in between the cooling cover which makes the side cover a little snug but no worries. I tried to slide them down past the opening for the DVD drive but it was too tight of a fit. I also noticed that the wiring for the switches would not reach to the pci slot area so I slid all the inverters on top of the DVD drive and carefully attached the mini switches near the DVD drive. I leave them on now and if I need to turn em off I can quickly pop the cover and hit the switches. Gona see how it works for a while! Anyways, back to the card, havent run any tests on it yet but I couldnt believe how long it was compared the stock ATI card...and make sure to slide it into Guide 1. I tell ya I was having bad luck as I slid it in the first time because it went in crooked and into slot 2 somehow! Oh well....now all I need is Doom III to test her out for real...obviously UT 04 plays beautifully but dont notice too many differences between that and the stock ATI card...have to get some rest so I will test it out over the weekend!

Just be careful with those darn screws...I had extra ones laying around but it seems as if they designed them to be screwed in by a right hander and Im a left hander so I had to carefully go at angle...probably why I dropped the first two! OK...hope that helps at least one person out there! :D

[iriejedi]

I turned my machine upside down - screw fell right out! Got to love those four handles...

:-)

PS - sold my 9600XT for $85 (but it now) on eBay - sold in like two minutes - just an FYI in case you all want to try and make more. I felt I got it for free so I wanted to "pay it forward" with a great deal to another person.

But wow 2 minutes... how awesome is that!

Iriejedi



Well I got it installed finally! Only dropped two screws! Man did anyone notice that when u drop a screw it goes down to the bottom to be lost in nowhere land! I tried for 30 minutes to get them out with magnetic screwdrivers, toothpicks, pencaps, and without ripping apart the whole system...they can just stay there!

As for the card it is sweet...and HUGE! I also installed a cold cathode kit with two 12" tubes. Only problem is the wiring to the tubes had to slide in between the cooling cover which makes the side cover a little snug but no worries. I tried to slide them down past the opening for the DVD drive but it was too tight of a fit. I also noticed that the wiring for the switches would not reach to the pci slot area so I slid all the inverters on top of the DVD drive and carefully attached the mini switches near the DVD drive. I leave them on now and if I need to turn em off I can quickly pop the cover and hit the switches. Gona see how it works for a while! Anyways, back to the card, havent run any tests on it yet but I couldnt believe how long it was compared the stock ATI card...and make sure to slide it into Guide 1. I tell ya I was having bad luck as I slid it in the first time because it went in crooked and into slot 2 somehow! Oh well....now all I need is Doom III to test her out for real...obviously UT 04 plays beautifully but dont notice too many differences between that and the stock ATI card...have to get some rest so I will test it out over the weekend!

Just be careful with those darn screws...I had extra ones laying around but it seems as if they designed them to be screwed in by a right hander and Im a left hander so I had to carefully go at angle...probably why I dropped the first two! OK...hope that helps at least one person out there! :D

[iriejedi]

Not be too bummbed out - but am I supposed to see different numbers here?
they look quite close.... but I really have no idea what them mean - and regardless the card is huge so it must be MUCH more powerful!

CINEBENCH 2003 v1
****************************************************

Tester : Iriejedi

Processor : New G5 dp2.5
MHz : 2X2.5
Number of CPUs : 2
Operating System : 10.3.5

Graphics Card : 9600XT
Resolution : 1920X1200
Color Depth : millions

****************************************************

Rendering (Single CPU): 352 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 620 CB-CPU

Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.76

Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 340 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 947 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 1655 CB-GFX

OpenGL Speedup: 4.87

****************************************************


CINEBENCH 2003 v1
****************************************************

Tester : Iriejedi

Processor : G5 2.5dp
MHz : 2500 X 2
Number of CPUs : 2
Operating System : 10.3.5

Graphics Card : Nvidea 6800 Ultra DDL
Resolution : 1920 X 1200
Color Depth : millions

****************************************************

Rendering (Single CPU): 343 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 573 CB-CPU

Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.67

Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 334 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 944 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 1564 CB-GFX

OpenGL Speedup: 4.68

****************************************************


Woot!!!!!! the 6800 Ultra SHIPPED!!!!!!

its about time! :cool:
:p