Safari 1.3 Seeded

[MacRumors]

With Safari 2.0 coming with Tiger in 2005, Apple is still working on improvements in the current version of Safari. Safari 1.3 (v146) was seeded to developers today and offers several under the hood improvments.

Reports indicate primarily that speed has improved noticeably, with several CSS rendering fixes. The most notable improvement appears to be in Safari's Javascript engine.

One users' BenchJS score (http://www.24fun.com/downloadcenter/benchjs/benchjs.html) went from 113 seconds to 16.29 seconds from Safari 1.2.2 to 1.3. Meanwhile Firebox .9 scored 49.0 seconds on the same test/hardware config (1GHz PowerBook).

[FightTheFuture]

awesome. now lets get it to work with my webbanking without doing any hacks and i'm golden!

[coolfactor]

With Safari 2.0 coming with Tiger in 2005, Apple is still working on improvements in the current version of Safari. Safari 1.3 (v146) was seeded to developers today and offers several under the hood improvments.

Reports indicate primarily that speed has improved noticeably, with several CSS rendering fixes. The most notable improvement appears to be in Safari's Javascript engine.

One users' BenchJS score (http://www.24fun.com/downloadcenter/benchjs/benchjs.html) went from 113 seconds to 16.29 seconds from Safari 1.2.2 to 1.3. Meanwhile Firebox .9 scored 49.0 seconds on the same test/hardware config (1GHz PowerBook).

Wicked! I'm already impressed with Safari at the current version. Just keeps getting better.

Just a note: Safari has worked great with my online banking since the beginning.

[nickdaze]

Are those clockspeeds real???
How could they increase the performance of a web browser that much?!
Anyone?

[jackieonasses]

that is some CRAZY speed enhancements.....haha IE isnt updating til Longhorn. And they will regret it!

[soosy]

Sweet!

I hope they make Safari 2.0 on some level for Panther... meaning features like RSS can be left out but that it renders pages visually the same even if not as fast. Tying browsers to operating system versions is so Microsoftian and makes it a pain to test for when web developing. it's a pain to get Safari into our browser test cycle when you have to say things like "Well, they fixed that in Safari 1.2 but you need to have Panther for that, so we can't really count on people having the latest version." etc. etc.

[bcsmith]

awesome. now lets get it to work with my webbanking without doing any hacks and i'm golden!


The current version of Safari works fine with my banking (Wells Fargo). It didn't right off the bat, but one of the builds in the 70's fixed that.

Looks like it's time to switch banks....;)

-- Ben

[iomar]

Wow, this amazing! I hope they improve JAVA also and make it work on every websites. Right now Safari doesn't work on some sites that I use. Besides, some sites that let you listen music online doesnot work on Safari or it could be on Mac. Apple needs to fix this problem, too.

[javabear90]

don't they mean firefox, not firebox??

[Freg3000]

The good: Apple is making great improvements in their already great web browser.

The bad: By this time next year, we will have 3 different incarnations of the same browser on the same platform (albeit different versions)

Safari 1.0 on Jaguar
Safari 1.3 on Panther
Safari RSS (2.0) on Tiger

A bit confusing. :confused:

[Jack White]

wow! i just made the flopfive!

[JDOG_]

It's a bummer we have to wait 9 months to get a web browser that looks pretty close to completion. I guess that's the way it works. Lets hope 1.3 makes it a bit snappier, my safari lags like crazy when I have a couple tabs open and try to switch between them.

[dizastor]

...Meanwhile Firebox .9 scored...

I assume FireBox is a Dual 2.5ghz g5 without liquid cooling.


I can't wait for a Safari upgrade. I love this lil' browser.

[dguisinger]

The good: Apple is making great improvements in their already great web browser.

The bad: By this time next year, we will have 3 different incarnations of the same browser on the same platform (albeit different versions)

Safari 1.0 on Jaguar
Safari 1.3 on Panther
Safari RSS (2.0) on Tiger

A bit confusing. :confused:

I really hope there is more to 2.0 than RSS. I never would find myself really using the RSS features, it doesn't interest me that much.

Infact I hate how apple's marketing engine adds one feature to the name of a product.
Safari RSS
iChat AV

I hope this isn't something that they are going to keep doing. I mean seriously, what if they let you print your settings from System Preferences for archival... Preferences Print? Adding a feature as part of the name is a bad idea, especially since in this case RSS is a small feature, not something everyone will use, and to most people the name is going to confuse, not help the situation.

On another note, the dual search fields in safari would be annoying.

[spankalee]

It's a bummer we have to wait 9 months to get a web browser that looks pretty close to completion. I guess that's the way it works. Lets hope 1.3 makes it a bit snappier, my safari lags like crazy when I have a couple tabs open and try to switch between them.

How much RAM do you have? I find Safari pretty snappy as long as it keep everything in RAM and doesn't have to do any page swaps. As soon as you have to tag the disk to switch tabs isn't going to slow down.

[dizastor]

On another note, the dual search fields in safari would be annoying.

I really hope that there is an option to get rid of the RSS search box.
Of course then you'd get a pop-up box telling you "We are sorry that you have switched from Safari RSS to Safari 1.3, we now bring you... kernel panic"

[Sauron1440]

I really think that Apple needs to backport their rendering improvements to older OS versions - Speed improvements are nice and all, but for a web designer, it's VERY difficult to make a web page that displays consistently across all the various versions of Safari in use - and it has an OS-enforced upgrade cap if you're still on Jaguar. Users are far more likely to upgrade to a Software Update-provided Safari upgrade than a Firefox download (which, thankfully, is exempt from Apple's marketing manipulations). Oh, well. Apple is as apple does.

[stylewriter]

The main problem I have with the javascript engine in Safari 1.2 is that it doesn't support onblur. Basically this lets you run a bit of javascript when something loses focus(it actually doesn't support any change of focus functions). If they add support in for onblur, I'll start writing my javascripted sites to be compatable with Safari.

[må¥å]

I really hope that there is an option to get rid of the RSS search box.
Of course then you'd get a pop-up box telling you "We are sorry that you have switched from Safari RSS to Safari 1.3, we now bring you... kernel panic"

Yes you can get rid of the RSS search box as you can get rid of the google search box.

RRS is actually a neat feature as mentioned at WWDC Keynote. It can find information of interest much faster than Google and it is more current (upto date) than the information on google.

I would suggest to hold off your comments about RRS until you try it with safari. You don't know what you might need until you use it to your own preferences.

[må¥å]

I really think that Apple needs to backport their rendering improvements to older OS versions - Speed improvements are nice and all, but for a web designer, it's VERY difficult to make a web page that displays consistently across all the various versions of Safari in use - and it has an OS-enforced upgrade cap if you're still on Jaguar. Users are far more likely to upgrade to a Software Update-provided Safari upgrade than a Firefox download (which, thankfully, is exempt from Apple's marketing manipulations). Oh, well. Apple is as apple does.

I can see your point that locking mac users out from recent features and updates to various applications can cause issues. However you have to remember people saying that Jag is teh best and that is all they need, and now people care saying panther is better and thats all they need. With Tiger it seems even better however you have to give a user reason to upgrade thats how the OS and applications become better with more effecient feature sets. Its not like Safari won't work its just that if you are compelled to use the newer feature you can upgrade and regard support the OS development.

Would you rather stick with MS instead or use Linux. You do have a choice there are other browsers hell i use the other browsers from time to time if Safari fails to load a site.

Cheers mate its a double sided argument with a positive and neagative response on both ends.

[nsb3000]

Glad to here apple is not going to leave us non-developers out in the cold...

[coolfactor]

It's a bummer we have to wait 9 months to get a web browser that looks pretty close to completion. I guess that's the way it works. Lets hope 1.3 makes it a bit snappier, my safari lags like crazy when I have a couple tabs open and try to switch between them.

How much RAM do you have? I experience that same thing with a 1Ghz eMac with 256MB RAM. Adding a 512MB RAM card and the problem is history, even with 20 tabs/windows open at once.

[coolfactor]

Glad to here apple is not going to leave us non-developers out in the cold...

What does this mean? Apple is a company that is passionate about what they do and what they can create. Good isn't good enough.. they have to make it g-g-g-g-great!

[nsb3000]

I really think that Apple needs to backport their rendering improvements to older OS versions - Speed improvements are nice and all, but for a web designer, it's VERY difficult to make a web page that displays consistently across all the various versions of Safari in use - and it has an OS-enforced upgrade cap if you're still on Jaguar. Users are far more likely to upgrade to a Software Update-provided Safari upgrade than a Firefox download (which, thankfully, is exempt from Apple's marketing manipulations). Oh, well. Apple is as apple does.

I completely agree. In an ideal world, safari would be free to all, but at least the rendering engine (webkit) should be equal across all versions of os x. There is no reason it can't be.

[må¥å]

I hope and wish CORE IMAGE is used with safari, thus one can manipulate the way one sees content on a web page in a 2D and or 3D manner.

I can make the webpages or the windows atleast look like a ripped edge piece of paper. :D

[coolfactor]

I really think that Apple needs to backport their rendering improvements to older OS versions - Speed improvements are nice and all, but for a web designer, it's VERY difficult to make a web page that displays consistently across all the various versions of Safari in use - and it has an OS-enforced upgrade cap if you're still on Jaguar. Users are far more likely to upgrade to a Software Update-provided Safari upgrade than a Firefox download (which, thankfully, is exempt from Apple's marketing manipulations). Oh, well. Apple is as apple does.

Apple doesn't make any money on free updates. Are you willing to pay them? I doubt it.

[Mav451]

Something funny about your test...

You know how IE is supposedly the fastest on the PC side? Well 0.9.1 certainly changed that situation :)

Oddly enough, IE is almost 50% slower (15 secs vs. 10 by Firefox 0.9.1).

*If it wasn't for test 6's obnoxious 4.7seconds, Firefox would have broken the 6 second mark.

[yuphorix]

Apple doesn't make any money on free updates. Are you willing to pay them? I doubt it.

When was the last time you paid for a browser? When was the last time someone even tried to ask you to pay for a browser? Other than Opera, I can't think of any others... Safari should separate the "functionality" of the browser and the rendering engine. Better yet, they should just use the mozilla engine... hehehe.

[SWC]

that is some CRAZY speed enhancements.....haha IE isnt updating til Longhorn. And they will regret it!

It's not even really updating much just adding the popup blocker they have for sp2 of xp, everytime they update they get sued so i guess they figured screw it lets not update and make the internet miserable since 90% uses IE.

[Stella]

Apple had to do something with the Javascript engine if they are going to implement Konf, err, I mean the Dashboard.. without speed improvements, dashboard would be exceedling slow on anything but the fastest Macs.

When are apple going to implement Undo...??! I cannot believe Apple still have implemented this in Safari - mind boggling. Also, per-website pop-up and cookie suppression like Mozilla has.

I still think Safari is a really good browser, but the above, especially Undo is very much needed.



With Safari 2.0 coming with Tiger in 2005, Apple is still working on improvements in the current version of Safari. Safari 1.3 (v146) was seeded to developers today and offers several under the hood improvments.

Reports indicate primarily that speed has improved noticeably, with several CSS rendering fixes. The most notable improvement appears to be in Safari's Javascript engine.

One users' BenchJS score (http://www.24fun.com/downloadcenter/benchjs/benchjs.html) went from 113 seconds to 16.29 seconds from Safari 1.2.2 to 1.3. Meanwhile Firebox .9 scored 49.0 seconds on the same test/hardware config (1GHz PowerBook).

[mainstreetmark]

When are apple going to implement Undo...??! I cannot believe Apple still have implemented this in Safari - mind boggling. Also, per-website pop-up and cookie suppression like Mozilla has.


"Mind boggling", eh? Shouldn't you reserve that kind of dramatic speech for things like "lack of css support" or something more critical?

What would you even use Undo for. "Oops, I opened a Tab"? "Oops, I went to Yahoo instead of Google"?

I don't think I get it. :)

[centauratlas]

The worst part is that Safari 1.2 is so slow to begin with! Mozilla and IE were both signficantly faster (nearly 50% faster on my dual 800).

(And to make it even worse the "FlopFive" on there are all Mac OS, Safari).

Apple needs to get their act together here and make Safari REALLY competitive.

[rdowns]

Apple doesn't make any money on free updates. Are you willing to pay them? I doubt it.

I am. I have grown to hate this, I expect it for nothing attitude that he dot com era has brought us.

That being said, it's a browser and if they want it to be a standard, they should offer free upgrades. Might be tough given how integrated into thr OS Safari is.

[Sabbath]

Any updates to safari are a good thing by me. Generally its a great browser but there are times when it just slows down to a crawl and drives me insane, particularly the tab switching thing. Also if you try and have too many windows with movie trailers from Apple.com it gets unhappy and decides to quit.

However we must remember it is still young and getting better and better.

[virividox]

great, yeah i just want it to work with my banks system so i dont have to use a wintel or ie!!!

[cgc]

That's cool. I checked Safari 1.2.2 versus Camino 0.8 and got some interesting results:

Safari 1.2.2 = 123 seconds
Camino 0.8 = 15 seconds

Impressive? To get Java 1.4.2 to run in other than Safari browsers use this http://javaplugin.sourceforge.net

[bryanzak]

I really hope that there is an option to get rid of the RSS search box."
There is, under the View menu, just another item you can choose to show or not.

[uv23]

Also, per-website pop-up and cookie suppression like Mozilla has.
I'm with you here. i can't believe this hasn't beeen implemented in safari yet. I'd also like actual cache control. As it stands, Safari is a woefully dumbed down browser (and the only browser I use that still crashes regularly).

[AppleMatt]

When are apple going to implement Undo...??! I cannot believe Apple still have implemented this in Safari - mind boggling. Also, per-website pop-up and cookie suppression like Mozilla has.

I still think Safari is a really good browser, but the above, especially Undo is very much needed.

I completely agree, the amount of times I've accidentally deleted a post I can't count. I'm sure people within Apple do it all the time too. Unless they have special keyboards.

AppleMatt

[york2600]

It's actually not a real MS thing to tie software to an OS. It's more of an Apple thing.

MS Office 2003: Windows 2000 and above
Media Player 9: Windows 98SE and above
Internet Explorer 6 SP1: Windows 98 / NT 4 and above
Direct X 9.0b: Windows 98 and above

I think Apple is the one dropping the ball on this one. We need to not point fingers and MS here and realize that Apple is screwing the customers when it comes to OS upgrades.

Sweet!

I hope they make Safari 2.0 on some level for Panther... meaning features like RSS can be left out but that it renders pages visually the same even if not as fast. Tying browsers to operating system versions is so Microsoftian and makes it a pain to test for when web developing. it's a pain to get Safari into our browser test cycle when you have to say things like "Well, they fixed that in Safari 1.2 but you need to have Panther for that, so we can't really count on people having the latest version." etc. etc.

[ridogi]

Any updates to safari are a good thing by me. Generally its a great browser but there are times when it just slows down to a crawl and drives me insane, particularly the tab switching thing...

Seems some people on here have problems with safari's speed and stability. There are things you can do to speed it back up immensely, as well as lessen how often it crashes. I've done all of these and have noticed improvement each time in speed, and I very rarely crash it. I'm running 10.2.6 in a Beige G3 upgraded with a sonnet encore G4 700 and 320 ram and I regularly have around twenty tabs open.

turn off favicons permanently:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20040323144305318

increase bookmark menu speed:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20040123235252498

eliminate cache:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20030216085845456

empty and turn off autofill for 'other forms:'
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20040324004506941

[rendezvouscp]

Introducing the new MacRumors. Brought to you by Safari 1.3.

Image removed, but it was just that the tabs for navigation were messed up.
–Chase

[nosaj56]

Introducing the new MacRumors. Brought to you by Safari 1.3.

http://homepage.mac.com/rendezvouscp/Images/safari.jpg

–Chase

And I didn't even notice that after I installed 1.3. Darn. :(

[BackInTheSaddle]

It seems like each version of Safari bring improved robustness and more features. Still, I run across sites that just won't open or generate weird errors that I can't get around.

Has anyone noticed a "memory leak" type problem with Safari? Sometimes, it seems like Safari continues to take more and more system memory until it either crashes or I do a reboot.

Overall, Safari is a neat piece of software, but still has a way to go before I can get rid of my other browsers.

[abhi_beckert]

I completely agree, the amount of times I've accidentally deleted a post I can't count. I'm sure people within Apple do it all the time too. Unless they have special keyboards.

AppleMatt

Most Mac browsers (including Safari) don't let you hit backspace (called delete on mac keyboards, del is called forward delete) to go back a page. So this problem never happens.

There was a long and heated debate on the Camino dev mailing list arguing for and aqainst allowing the delete key to go back a page. Against must've won, since you still can't use the delete key to go back. If they haven't implemented it yet they dont intend to, it's litterally a 30 second task to add a keybaord shortcut to a Cocoa app. You don't even need the source code, just developer tools.

[nosaj56]

Most Mac browsers (including Safari) don't let you hit backspace (called delete on mac keyboards, del is called forward delete) to go back a page. So this problem never happens.

There was a long and heated debate on the Camino dev mailing list arguing for and aqainst allowing the delete key to go back a page. Against must've won, since you still can't use the delete key to go back. If they haven't implemented it yet they dont intend to, it's litterally a 30 second task to add a keybaord shortcut to a Cocoa app. You don't even need the source code, just developer tools.

Safari 1.3 lets me use delete (backspace) to go back and I remember losing forum posts because of this happening before 1.3.

[nagromme]

In an ideal world, safari would be free to all, but at least the rendering engine (webkit) should be equal across all versions of os x. There is no reason it can't be.

Sometimes there is: technologies within the OS are used, and if those things aren't present--or are different--then the engine or the app may break. Thus, if Apple makes an app that uses an OS's new technologies, users of older OS's must stick with the older app version. Makes sense to me.

[JDOG_]

I'm rolling with 640 MB of RAM on a 933mhz G4 so I think I'm doing ok...maybe I'm just running too many other programs at once. Maybe it's just a freak problem with this version that will go away--not bothering me too much though :rolleyes:

Are there any other browsers out there that let you view RSS feeds on the fly like 2.0 is going to? I'm not sure I'm going to use the RSS feature that much, unless I'm trying to compile research.

[ColoJohnBoy]

Huh. I don't what gives, if Mr. Fella is getting 113 seconds on his 1 GHz PowerBook. I have a 1 GHz 12" 768 MB RAM, and I scored 62.01 seconds.

[Stella]

Nope, you don't get the idea of Undo ;-)

You type in to a text area in these and other forums... you accidently delete your whole text, say - I've done this accidently... and your stuffed.

Undo...


Better CSS support will come in time... anyway, isn't Safari's better than IEs?


"Mind boggling", eh? Shouldn't you reserve that kind of dramatic speech for things like "lack of css support" or something more critical?

What would you even use Undo for. "Oops, I opened a Tab"? "Oops, I went to Yahoo instead of Google"?

I don't think I get it. :)

[age234]

What would you even use Undo for. "Oops, I opened a Tab"? "Oops, I went to Yahoo instead of Google"?

I don't think I get it. :)
Undo is needed for text boxes, incase you are typing a huge post and somehow delete it.

I'd also like to see Safari remember its scrollbar position in text boxes. Numerous times I've clicked to a different tab to check something, then returning to it, it's scrolled up to the top again. Not a big deal, but annoying.

[cmoney]

Speed issue in Safari: rendering EXTREMELY long pages in Safari (say 100-150 screen lengths at 1280x1024) makes my dual 2GHz G5 spin up the fans to 100%, and the beach ball comes a spinnin for a good 30-45 seconds. I hardly think system specs are an issue, it's solely in Safari's rendering algorithms because...

Camino and Firefox on the other hand render those same pages in about 2 (okay, maybe 3) seconds with nary a peep from the fans.

And once the page is done rendering on Safari, subsequent scrolling is near impossible to use. Again not an issue in Camino or Firefox.

Another annoying thing is the poor Javascript support. It just doesn't seem up to par with Mozilla just yet.

Altogether, it's annoying enough for some work that I stopped using Safari for those things. The only thing that keeps me coming back to Safari is the bookmark sync which keeps my bookmarks synced between work and home.

[Fukui]

I really think that Apple needs to backport their rendering improvements to older OS versions - Speed improvements are nice and all, but for a web designer, it's VERY difficult to make a web page that displays consistently across all the various versions of Safari in use - and it has an OS-enforced upgrade cap if you're still on Jaguar. Users are far more likely to upgrade to a Software Update-provided Safari upgrade than a Firefox download (which, thankfully, is exempt from Apple's marketing manipulations). Oh, well. Apple is as apple does.
Its all open source, so, anyone can do it, even if apple neglects too.
And, don't forget, Omniweb (which uses Safari Engine) wont be abandoning anyone below Jaguar...

[nosaj56]

Speed issue in Safari: rendering EXTREMELY long pages in Safari (say 100-150 screen lengths at 1280x1024) makes my dual 2GHz G5 spin up the fans to 100%, and the beach ball comes a spinnin for a good 30-45 seconds. I hardly think system specs are an issue, it's solely in Safari's rendering algorithms because...

Camino and Firefox on the other hand render those same pages in about 2 (okay, maybe 3) seconds with nary a peep from the fans.

And once the page is done rendering on Safari, subsequent scrolling is near impossible to use. Again not an issue in Camino or Firefox.

Another annoying thing is the poor Javascript support. It just doesn't seem up to par with Mozilla just yet.

Altogether, it's annoying enough for some work that I stopped using Safari for those things. The only thing that keeps me coming back to Safari is the bookmark sync which keeps my bookmarks synced between work and home.

Safari 1.3 loads the [adult swim] (http://boards.adultswim.com/adultswim) message boards (which show 100 messages per page by default) in about 5 seconds. Before, I got the dreaded beachball.

[Lepton]

I don't know what they did, but this thing seems to load even faster than the webpage can come into the broadband connection! Blink and it's there. HUGE speedup on my dual 1GHz. Unbelievable.

[Sauron1440]

Wow - did the whole BenchJS testing thing and my scores improved from 60 seconds to less than 10 this is on a shiny new 1.5Ghz powerbook. Too bad about the macrumors menus, I'd better check on some of my own sites.

[bryanzak]

Its all open source, so, anyone can do it, even if apple neglects too.
And, don't forget, Omniweb (which uses Safari Engine) wont be abandoning anyone below Jaguar...
You have no idea what you're talking about.

I love all the people that think it would be trivial to backport Safari 1.2 from Panther to Jaguar.

Safari is not simply WebKit. It's not just webkit that was improved in Panther. There's a ton of technologies used by Safari that would also have to be backported. Think CFNetwork, certificate/keychain stuff, parsing, javascript, quartz rendering (where do you think css shadow support comes from :)), and much more than most people could imagine.

Mac OS X is a very well designed OS. That means layers. That means that something you do that seems innocent on Panther and could be easily ported back to Jaguar may not be when the various underlying layers are taken into account. After all, imagine some bit in some layer uses kqueues. These don't exist in the Jaguar kernel. To backport an app that relied on kqueues (directly or indirectly) would simply not be possible for Apple. Apple just does not have the resources to backport (develop and certify) anything that has significant dependencies on the various layers of the OS. Or, maybe they do, but at cost... a cost of fewer/slower improvements going forward. Who wants that?

[DMann]

Glad to here apple is not going to leave us non-developers out in the cold...

Here HERE!

[macsrus]

You people act like safari is some great killer app that would make all the PC users switch and then bow to Steve.......

Its just a web browser..... for freaking out loud


Jeeze

[Sauron1440]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I love all the people that think it would be trivial to backport Safari 1.2 from Panther to Jaguar.

Safari is not simply WebKit. It's not just webkit that was improved in Panther. There's a ton of technologies used by Safari that would also have to be backported. Think CFNetwork, certificate/keychain stuff, parsing, javascript, quartz rendering (where do you think css shadow support comes from :)), and much more than most people could imagine.

While I am largely iggernant of the specifics of the WebKit internals (I'm familiar with some of it, but only conceptually) I would really like Apple to backport some of the rendering methods - things like CSS improvements, and some of the tag extensions. I can do without having hardware-rendered CSS shadows in jaguar (pretty cool, though) but I really want things like the CSS float property fixes to be available to all the Safari users out there, regardless of OS revision - things like that would best be described as "bug fixes", as opposed to features. Unfortunately, that definition only goes so far, because very few modern browsers can really be considered bug-free, using my definition of the word.

[jeffgarden]

if anyone's bank or credit card uses the "my check free" service for paying bills, does the current version of Safari work with that ?

I'm pretty sure it didn't and 1.3 does. But maybe it always has worked :p

[XDream]

I really hope that there will also be improvements to the HTML/CSS rendering engine. Even though it's already quite good, there are still some annoying bugs like the clear:none bug (http://www.clagnut.com/sandbox/clear_none/)...

[nosaj56]

I really hope that there will also be improvements to the HTML/CSS rendering engine. Even though it's already quite good, there are still some annoying bugs like the clear:none bug (http://www.clagnut.com/sandbox/clear_none/)...

screenshot in 1.3:

[broken_keyboard]

I find that when visiting certain secure sites such as the .Mac login page that Safari slows down a lot and the fans spin up on my G5. Other browsers it's just like a normal page. In that sense Safari actually puts me off using .Mac!

Also Safari still feels slower than FireFox overall. It may be something to do with the length of delay before displaying the first rendering as discussed in the authors blog, or maybe it really is just simply slower.
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/

[XDream]

screenshot in 1.3:
wow - that's exactly what i was hoping for - great.

[nmk]

I wasn't aware that people were having problems with Safari. For me, it has been one of the most stable pieces of software that I have ever used. I can have 20 tabs open at once and I don't notice any slowdown at all. I mean, tabbed browsing is so reliable for me, I never imagined it would cause problems for some people. I can't remember the last time Safari crashed (I'm not even sure if it has in the last year or so). I've tried Firefox, Omniweb, iCab, and Opera. So far I've found Safari to be substantially faster, and more reliable, than all of them.

[Applespider]

RRS is actually a neat feature as mentioned at WWDC Keynote. It can find information of interest much faster than Google and it is more current (upto date) than the information on google.

It's more up to date than Google web search. But will it be better/faster than Google news search? I guess being able to save those searches into clippings would be useful tho

[rendezvouscp]

I just noticed that you can now save a file as the raw source or as a web archive in Safari 1.3. Very good! I missed that from IE.
–Chase

[iGary]

I'm glad to see these relatively quick Safari updates coming...I'm running into fewer and fewer sites with problems.

Bring it! :D

[pounce]

if anyone's bank or credit card uses the "my check free" service for paying bills, does the current version of Safari work with that ?

I'm pretty sure it didn't and 1.3 does. But maybe it always has worked :p

that's what i'm looking for. i do online banking and safari doesn't do it properly. i've run into a few other secure online payments from some regular computer cable warehouse type places that also did not work correctly with safari. i had to fire up IE and that worked fine. i'd rather not run any of that microsoft stuff on this computer. when safari does online banking and other sales transaction properly it will be the only browser i use.

[jaw04005]

Safari 1.3 does not display the tabs at Macrumors forums correctly anymore.

[FriarTuck]

Gotta be nuts to use IE with the security risks. Love Safari, and I just finally downloaded FireFox for my old peecee and it's been fine.

My banking works fine with Safari. The only bill pay sites that don't work for me with Safari are State Farm and Verizon Wireless.

[rendezvouscp]

Safari 1.3 does not display the tabs at Macrumors forums correctly anymore.

As you've seen, but you can see my pic too further up. It no longer displays Blogger's tabs correctly either.
–Chase

[Over Achiever]

Safari 1.3 seems to be messing up my Adium message views as well, which use the webkit to render. -_-

(Adium 0.61, Satin Message View)

On the bright side, my 1 GHz Powerbook, 1 GB Ram did that test in under 15 seconds ... nice. ^_^

[AppleMatt]

LOL.

I had some CSS rendering issues with 1.2, and installed 1.3 hoping to resolve these (i.e. make sure it was Safari and not just my error). It completely messed up the whole layout. Back to 1.2!

AppleMatt

[jouster]

Undo is needed for text boxes, incase you are typing a huge post and somehow delete it.

I'd also like to see Safari remember its scrollbar position in text boxes. Numerous times I've clicked to a different tab to check something, then returning to it, it's scrolled up to the top again. Not a big deal, but annoying.

Hmmmm.....it always retains the scrollbar position for me. Odd.

Edit: You're absolutely right: I didn't notice that you'd specified textboxes as opposed to web pages. Pay attention, Jouster!! </dumbass>

[gregorypierce]

awesome. now lets get it to work with my webbanking without doing any hacks and i'm golden!

Exactly! I don't need it to be faster, I just need it to work with all of the websites that I use every day.

[padrino121]

that is some CRAZY speed enhancements.....haha IE isnt updating til Longhorn. And they will regret it!

What kind of statement is that?

Yeah my browser can run JS faster then yours so I'm going to switch platforms to do the same.

In a similar vein:

My car has three cup holders instead of two, haha. You're going to regreat not having three.

[brap]

Great, they speeded up JavaScript.

But, can anyone tell me whether they've finally got SSL through HTTP proxy sorted out yet? Firebird, hell, it was back in the days of Phoenix and Mozilla had it locked down.

[gerardrj]

The main problem I have with the javascript engine in Safari 1.2 is that it doesn't support onblur. Basically this lets you run a bit of javascript when something loses focus(it actually doesn't support any change of focus functions). If they add support in for onblur, I'll start writing my javascripted sites to be compatable with Safari.

First off... you should always write your web sites to be compatible with the HTML and CSS standards. Period.
Most of what people use JS for in menus is doable without ANY scripting via CSS: 3D Push buttons, pop-up menus, highlighting links on hover, etc.
Take a look at the ":hover" ":focus" and ":active" selectors, these selectors work on ANY element type (not just links) as of CSS 2.1.

Some quick googling will yield quite a few sites with sample markup for pop-up menus and other "tricks". http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/ is a good start though.

My personal opinion: if you can't do it in HTML or CSS you should do it on your server unless it truly NEEDS to be interactive, in which case you should probably use Java or Flash instead.

[gerardrj]

that's what i'm looking for. i do online banking and safari doesn't do it properly. i've run into a few other secure online payments from some regular computer cable warehouse type places that also did not work correctly with safari. i had to fire up IE and that worked fine. i'd rather not run any of that microsoft stuff on this computer. when safari does online banking and other sales transaction properly it will be the only browser i use.

When sites don't work correctly in Safari and DO work correctly in MSIE, it's almost always the site that's broken. Copy the URL and go to the site: validator.w3.org and enter the troublesome page's URL.

Odds are that the validator will spit back over 50 errors in the HTML. W3.org also maintains a CSS validator if the site uses CSS (and they all should).

Copy these errors and send them to the webmaster in charge of the page(s) along with a request that the site be written to work with all browsers, not just MSIE.

[FaasNat]

Hope they fix the window resizing thing when opening the first (or is it considered the second) tab.

[pounce]

When sites don't work correctly in Safari and DO work correctly in MSIE, it's almost always the site that's broken. Copy the URL and go to the site: validator.w3.org and enter the troublesome page's URL.

i believe it, but my bank acts like it never makes mistakes!

stupid US Bank. i wondered, though, how much if any was safari's fault as text input fields on order forms from some online stores wouldn't register my quantity data input properly in safari. it seemed to do with numeric input and secure transactions. i'll run em throug the validator for grins and giggles though. seriously, if i never used msie again it would be fine with me.

ps: i just ran the cable company site through the validator and it found numerous errors while i confirmed it did not work properly. otoh, my banks site was working fine. maybe some cookie error before with the bank? who knows. here is the cable web site link... a perfect example of a company that think msie is the only browser or some **** like that.

http://www.ramelectronics.net/

try and put anything in a shopping cart, but i know a quantity of one doesn't register properly.

[gopher]

With Safari 2.0 coming with Tiger in 2005, Apple is still working on improvements in the current version of Safari. Safari 1.3 (v146) was seeded to developers today and offers several under the hood improvments.

Reports indicate primarily that speed has improved noticeably, with several CSS rendering fixes. The most notable improvement appears to be in Safari's Javascript engine.

One users' BenchJS score (http://www.24fun.com/downloadcenter/benchjs/benchjs.html) went from 113 seconds to 16.29 seconds from Safari 1.2.2 to 1.3. Meanwhile Firebox .9 scored 49.0 seconds on the same test/hardware config (1GHz PowerBook).

I don't care about Safari getting faster. What I'd like to see is security status have more than just a lock icon. At least 4 Mac web browsers let you tell whether a webpage is using 40 bit, 50 bit, 128 bit, or 256 bit encryption. With Safari, all you get is a lock icon with no statement to how secure the website is. If any of you is a Safari seed developer, please make the recommendation to Apple to add this feature. It is long overdue, and I've made my feedback known at least a dozen times that it is important on Apple's Safari bug reporter.

[porkozone]

gerardrj, it's funny to me that you make such a css-snob type comment in a thread that mentions how a css-driven tab navigation (which is SOOO css-cool these days) is broken by a browser UP-date. I doubt a similar javascript rollover version would be so broken.

Don't get me wrong. I love CSS, and use it more and more each day. But to each his own. There are advantages to each. Seriously. Please don't spout how everything would be fixed by CSS-driven coding.

</off-topic rant>

[wdlove]

I don't care about Safari getting faster. What I'd like to see is security status have more than just a lock icon. At least 4 Mac web browsers let you tell whether a webpage is using 40 bit, 50 bit, 128 bit, or 256 bit encryption. With Safari, all you get is a lock icon with no statement to how secure the website is. If any of you is a Safari seed developer, please make the recommendation to Apple to add this feature. It is long overdue, and I've made my feedback known at least a dozen times that it is important on Apple's Safari bug reporter.

I thought that it was the actual website you were visiting that offers the security encryption? This is the first time that I have heard of 256 bit encryption. I know that the site that I do my banking has 128 bit. Thought that was the gold standard.

[gopher]

I thought that it was the actual website you were visiting that offers the security encryption? This is the first time that I have heard of 256 bit encryption. I know that the site that I do my banking has 128 bit. Thought that was the gold standard.

Some websites do tell you in their documentation their encryption level, others simply say they are "secure." However, we all know less than 128 bit is not ideal. 256 bit is the highest, and found on a few sites. I don't know which ones I've seen them on, but you can probably look it up. And unless the web browser actually responds at the same encryption level, you have no idea whether or not you are using the highest encryption possible for that website. If you aren't, you may be in for a rude surprise. So it really is up to the web browser to inform you whether or not the site is at the security level you want.

[GregA]

When was the last time you paid for a browser? When was the last time someone even tried to ask you to pay for a browser? Other than Opera, I can't think of any others... Safari should separate the "functionality" of the browser and the rendering engine. Better yet, they should just use the mozilla engine... hehehe.I agree. Apple needs to support their free browser for older OSX also.

We HAD an up-to-date free browser (Internet Explorer) on the Mac, and we've still got the mozilla options. If Apple wants to make a go at having a real competitor, it has to be done properly. Developers need a single "reference" browser to test on, not 4 different versions of Safari.

Otherwise dump safari.

I know it's not easy to upgrade safari for older OS X - since Safari (webkit especially) is tied to the OS. Also, Apple's in a tight spot - they need people to upgrade to get money for what they do. I don't know how they want to walk their tightrope but if they want developer support they need to make it easy too.

[uv23]

Bit of a tangent but is anyone here having problems loading hotmail.com with safari. The pages never stop loading, and when I press stop, the images stop trying to load and I can navigate around. But it also seems to cut off some javascript as it becomes impossible then to send messages. I'm hoping it'll get fixed with 1.3.

[Mav451]

Safari is notorious for making Hotmail attachment downloads impossible. At UMD, we had 14 G5's running 1.1 and 10.3.2

Potential switchers, by the droves, were getting driven nuts b/c Safari would pretend to load the "download" attachment page, but then reload and ask for your password. I actually was trying to help two students download their essays...but unfortunately, after 15 minutes of trying I just gave up. They went on the nearby Dells and were done with it in less than 20 seconds.

Since then, they have been upgraded to 1.2, but they were only upgraded to 1.2 at the VERY end of the semester -_-.

[MikeTheC]

I wasn't aware that people were having problems with Safari. For me, it has been one of the most stable pieces of software that I have ever used. I can have 20 tabs open at once and I don't notice any slowdown at all. I mean, tabbed browsing is so reliable for me, I never imagined it would cause problems for some people. I can't remember the last time Safari crashed (I'm not even sure if it has in the last year or so). I've tried Firefox, Omniweb, iCab, and Opera. So far I've found Safari to be substantially faster, and more reliable, than all of them.

Same here. I've used it in 10.2.8 on my beige G3, in 10.2.x and 10.3.x on my iBook G3 14", in 10.3.x on my 15" LCD iMac 800, and 10.3.x on my PB 15" 1.5 GHz. Every once in a blue moon I might see a glitch, but at least 99% of the time it works perfectly for me.

[uv23]

I'm not even talking about downloads (which has since been fixed by the way), just normal page loading like Inbox, Sending, reading, etc. They stopped working for me about a month or so ago.

[Mav451]

Well, I think MSN changed those links to operate via Javascript. I have a custom UserChrome.css that changes my mouse cursor to a cross hair over Javascript...let's just say its STAYS that way for quite some time on the hotmail page -_-

So, my guess is that Javascript is the culprit here:

javascript:HMFO('F000000001')
javascript:HMFO('F000000005')
javascript:HMFO('F000000002')

Those are the links for Inbox, Junk Mail, and Sent Messages, respectively.

[Fukui]

Well, I think MSN changed those links to operate via Javascript. I have a custom UserChrome.css that changes my mouse cursor to a cross hair over Javascript...let's just say its STAYS that way for quite some time on the hotmail page -_-

So, my guess is that Javascript is the culprit here:

javascript:HMFO('F000000001')
javascript:HMFO('F000000005')
javascript:HMFO('F000000002')

Those are the links for Inbox, Junk Mail, and Sent Messages, respectively.
Safari has lots of trouble with Javascript links, even mozilla. IE on Windows handles these the best unfortunately, maybe this will change with 1.3...

[wdlove]

Does Safari itself provide any security? Does it also have some encryption protection?

[gopher]

Safari is notorious for making Hotmail attachment downloads impossible. At UMD, we had 14 G5's running 1.1 and 10.3.2

Potential switchers, by the droves, were getting driven nuts b/c Safari would pretend to load the "download" attachment page, but then reload and ask for your password. I actually was trying to help two students download their essays...but unfortunately, after 15 minutes of trying I just gave up. They went on the nearby Dells and were done with it in less than 20 seconds.

Since then, they have been upgraded to 1.2, but they were only upgraded to 1.2 at the VERY end of the semester -_-.

You should really report the bug to Apple through Report bugs to Apple in the Safari menu. Also ask for Hotmail support to be added to Mac OS X Mail at http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/

And if anyone is under AppleCare, explain to Apple's customer relations the difficulty you face with Hotmail. By the way, I honestly believe you should switch from Hotmail to a more secure e-mail server. Microsoft's Hotmail has been host to many spams as well as viruses.

[vinko]

Guys,

I have a display problem with two of the web sites (Blogger.Com (http://www.blogger.com), Fotki.Com (http://www.fotki.com)) that I go to often while using Safari 1.3 and Safari 2.0, but the problem did not exist with Safari 1.2.x.

I think the problem has to with CSS. With Blogger, it is the navigation header at the top after login into ones account. With Fotki, it is with the display of the thumbnails. If you have either 1.3 or 2.0 version of Safari then you can see this at my Fotki site (http://public.fotki.com/vinko).

[Dr. No]

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0411safari13.html

[rpatrick]

With your "reported" rumor" comes the lack of it's release. I have contacted Apple twice, and they like myself do not believe in rumors, no matter where they come from
Since I have also reported the "rumor" to the Apple store, I await your response to this non bonifide rumor. The seeeded date was 6-29-04

[jaw04005]

With your "reported" rumor" comes the lack of it's release. I have contacted Apple twice, and they like myself do not believe in rumors, no matter where they come from
Since I have also reported the "rumor" to the Apple store, I await your response to this non bonifide rumor. The seeeded date was 6-29-04

"Seeded" means the update was sent to ADC (Apple Developer Connection) members, not the general public. Safari 1.3 has not been released. Why are you contacting Apple Support and the Apple Store about information posted at a "rumor" website?

[Sweetfeld28]

Huh. I don't what gives, if Mr. Fella is getting 113 seconds on his 1 GHz PowerBook. I have a 1 GHz 12" 768 MB RAM, and I scored 62.01 seconds.

I think his connection speed might have something to do with it. Try doing the same test as he did for both of your browsers (IE and Safari).

[wdlove]

This Safari 1.3 is something that has been discussed of along time. Is it possible that it will be relased as part of Tiger 10.4?

[Diatribe]

This Safari 1.3 is something that has been discussed of along time. Is it possible that it will be relased as part of Tiger 10.4?

Tiger Preview has Safari 2.0 as a version, so no. I'd expect in with the release of 10.3.7.

[roadapple]

it's killing me at cbsportline.com