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MacBytes
Jun 30, 2004, 11:33 AM
Category: Apple Software
Link: Apple releases Rendezvous for Windows 2000 & XP (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20040630123344)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

MacRumors
Jun 30, 2004, 11:45 AM
Apple released a developer's preview (http://developer.apple.com/macosx/rendezvous/index.html) of Rendezvous Networking for Windows 2000 & XP at wwdc 04.

This preview release includes full link-local support, allowing Windows machines to discover advertised HTTP and FTP servers using Internet Explorer. It also includes a printer setup wizard which allows Windows machines to print to Rendezvous networked printers, including USB shared printers connected to the AirPort Extreme and AirPort Express Base Stations. With the included Rendezvous SDK, Windows and Java developers can begin the process of adding Rendezvous service discovery to their applications
Also released (http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/rendezvous/) was support for various POSIX platforms, including Linux, Solaris, and FreeBSD, as well as making it callable from Java. Prior to wwdc, Rendezvous support was only available in Mac OS X.

jsw
Jun 30, 2004, 11:47 AM
Ah, the assimilation continues.

Very nice. Not really "new" technology, but nice to see Apple getting it in there with "Rendezvous" name.

And I dig the Java hooks.

macridah
Jun 30, 2004, 11:52 AM
good move on apple's part. soon all networkable hardware and software will use apple technology

~Shard~
Jun 30, 2004, 11:53 AM
Although I personally have no need for this whatsoever, I think it's good that Apple is continuing to develop applications like this... :cool:

tveric
Jun 30, 2004, 11:54 AM
Man, does Windows need this. Badly. It's such a pain in the ass to set up a local network on even two Windows XP machines - I set one up at my sister's house between three computers, two of them with wireless cards, and it routinely decides not to work. Sometimes the Internet conks out, usually the file sharing doesn't work, and sometimes ALL of it dies, requiring restarts on any machine involved.

A far cry from my easy, flawless, 2-imacs and 1 PB network at my house.

narco
Jun 30, 2004, 11:55 AM
Do I sense a trend?

// narco

smartypantsguy
Jun 30, 2004, 11:56 AM
Ah, the assimilation continues.

Very nice. Not really "new" technology, but nice to see Apple getting it in there with "Rendezvous" name.

And I dig the Java hooks.
---------------------------------

Seems they've learned from their new-found realization that playing along with, - and creating better solutions for - the Wintel crowd, is extremely lucrative... ( Can we all say "iTunes", "iPod", & "iPod mini"... ? )

...and I don't blame them one bit.

Keep it up, Apple... You may make inroads (and BIG time deniro) YET...

mainstreetmark
Jun 30, 2004, 11:56 AM
I'm not sure how this would do anything except make the Windows experience a little better... ??

wHo_tHe
Jun 30, 2004, 11:58 AM
For the record, the first platform other than Mac OS X to support Rendezvous was the Newton. Developers built it into Escale, an app to synchronize and install software on a Newton MessagePad. And it works.

http://www.kallisys.com/newton/dcl/en

Anticipat3
Jun 30, 2004, 11:58 AM
This is just great -- You're going to see a lot of printer manufactureres jump on this opportunity to make their printers uber-simple to use on a network. Consumer printers that hook up only to RJ45 (or 802.11 ;) ) and not USB are going to become much more common. They'll package the Rendezvous with their printer drivers, and shazam -- very simple to get the printer available to everyone on the network very easily.

AWESOME WORK, Apple. I don't scream that often, but this is great.

dongmin
Jun 30, 2004, 12:01 PM
Do I sense a trend?

// narcoI wonder if Apple is laying down the software groundwork for some new cross-platform hardware, e.g. set-top box, wireless ipod/ipad, iChat AV + iSight for windows, etc. Highly doubt that Apple is doing this simply to make networking between PCs easy.

MoparShaha
Jun 30, 2004, 12:02 PM
Obviously, this is a very good thing. I'm glad Apple is opening up. This new open approach will help them in the long run.

Tulse
Jun 30, 2004, 12:03 PM
I wonder if Apple is laying down the software groundwork for some new cross-platform hardware, e.g. set-top box, wireless ipod/ipad, iChat AV + iSight for windows, etc. Highly doubt that Apple is doing this simply to make networking between PCs easy.

Yes, it sure seems like this is the foundation for something else. I can't imagine Apple doing this and not having some sort of x-plat plans involving the technology.

DavidLeblond
Jun 30, 2004, 12:12 PM
Hold up, does this mean I'll soon be able to offload some of my XCode compile to my Linux webserver? If so, kickass!

billyboy
Jun 30, 2004, 12:14 PM
The PC running Windows is going to become the digital hub for the majority of peripheral hardware that will be coming out of Cupertino. Along with iTunes, this is one Trojan horse you just have to love. Sweet.

fartheststar
Jun 30, 2004, 12:16 PM
Obviously, this is a very good thing. I'm glad Apple is opening up. This new open approach will help them in the long run.

I agree that it's great that Apple is developping things that are easier to use for PC's now..... but how will this affect the mac in the future?

I love my mac and I never want to go back to crappy windows, even if there are good applications made by Apple for it. The reason I love my mac is that it just works (hard ware and software).

I hope this branching out WILL increase use of apple hardware and software, but I hope they won't have to surrender their computers or their OS.

AmigoMac
Jun 30, 2004, 12:18 PM
Yes, it sure seems like this is the foundation for something else. I can't imagine Apple doing this and not having some sort of x-plat plans involving the technology.

It's a new move for the big game apple is playing and most PC companies don't know they do... ;)

jsw
Jun 30, 2004, 12:23 PM
I hope this branching out WILL increase use of apple hardware and software, but I hope they won't have to surrender their computers or their OS.

They're just going to give Windows users enough of a taste to make them look at Macs. And, of course, enough of the technology to sell more of those non-Mac Apple products.

Apple won't make Windows as easy to use as a Mac. Ever. They just want a bit more mind-share. "See how cool we are? Macs have even more cool features...."

Captain Canuck
Jun 30, 2004, 12:24 PM
Maybe it allows for future iPod features...

Walk into a room with your iPod (with Rendezvous) and any computer (mac or pc) running iTunes can pick up your playlist.

Would also allow Macs and PCs in general to better detect/communicate with each other.

cc

msconvert
Jun 30, 2004, 12:24 PM
I wonder if Apple is laying down the software groundwork for some new cross-platform hardware, e.g. set-top box, wireless ipod/ipad, iChat AV + iSight for windows, etc. Highly doubt that Apple is doing this simply to make networking between PCs easy.

Apple has pulled out all the stops reciently. I am glad to see this. In the guise of "lets just play nice" they are really saying "we are here for the long fight" in a multi front war - Quicktime(AVC), rendezvous, music/media integration. Each one of these is a well devoloped product. In concert, they are unstopable. Apple has got some nice things up their sleeve. I can't wait.

dashiel
Jun 30, 2004, 12:26 PM
I wonder if Apple is laying down the software groundwork for some new cross-platform hardware, e.g. set-top box, wireless ipod/ipad, iChat AV + iSight for windows, etc. Highly doubt that Apple is doing this simply to make networking between PCs easy.

i think iChat AV 2 is going to come out for windows 6 months after tiger is released.

this rendezvous announcement and the revelation that tiger server will incorporate an encrypted, behind a firewall, iChat server. a cheap, fast, stable, encrypted video conferencing system might be way too tempting for corporate america.

if the cost of getting businesses to drop several grand on xServes and iSights, i think apple would be willing to give up free iChat for windows. as a bonus, while some consumers will cheat and figure out a way to use cameras other than iSight, the vast majority of people either won't know how or can't be bothered and will buy iSights as well.

iSight and iChat AV 2, could become as big as the iPod is.

jettredmont
Jun 30, 2004, 12:30 PM
Hold up, does this mean I'll soon be able to offload some of my XCode compile to my Linux webserver? If so, kickass!

Given that XCode distributed compile only works if both the OS and the gcc version are the same build and version, I really doubt it :)

I think Apple would get dgcc working on multiple 10.3.x installations before branching off to 10.3.x+Linux (and of course PPC+x86 gcc code bases) ...

SiliconAddict
Jun 30, 2004, 12:30 PM
This preview release includes full link-local support, allowing Windows machines to discover advertised HTTP and FTP servers using Internet Explorer.

WTF?!?! That better be a freaking typo. I DO NOT use Internet Exploder for anything other then Windows Updates. Apple dang well better support Mozilla and FireFox!! :confused:

wPod
Jun 30, 2004, 12:30 PM
hmmm. . . apples new tag line 'works for windows also!'

nagromme
Jun 30, 2004, 12:31 PM
Will hardware and software that uses Rendezvous be required to credit Apple? How prominently, I wonder?

And will Apple get money from this or not?

I suspect this may be intended partly to make IT and bigger corporations take Apple seriously. When Apple starts solving their problems on the platform their hung up on now, they may gain an interest in learning about "the rest of Apple" they were once blindly prejudiced against.

Sometimes Apple's first with a new technology... sometimes they're just the first to do it WELL and get it OUT there.

davecuse
Jun 30, 2004, 12:35 PM
iSight and iChat AV 2, could become as big as the iPod is.

That hadn't occured to me, but it would make a lot of sense. I think Apple has seen the light of peripherals. After a payday like the iPod they should be looking to do more of this.

aboyko
Jun 30, 2004, 12:39 PM
This is just great -- You're going to see a lot of printer manufactureres jump on this opportunity to make their printers uber-simple to use on a network. Consumer printers that hook up only to RJ45 (or 802.11 ;) ) and not USB are going to become much more common. They'll package the Rendezvous with their printer drivers, and shazam -- very simple to get the printer available to everyone on the network very easily.

Err, you already do. I just bought a used three-year-old HP Laserjet 2100TN, cheap; it includes a built-in 10/100 Ethernet interface. It already supported Rendezvous as soon as I plugged it in to my network - the Macs just saw it, no config needed. Not sure if there was a firmware update in its past, but it doesn't matter - Rendezvous is built on published standards, so people have been able to implement it for a while.

jsw
Jun 30, 2004, 12:40 PM
That hadn't occured to me, but it would make a lot of sense. I think Apple has seen the light of peripherals. After a payday like the iPod they should be looking to do more of this.

The problem is that iChat AV doesn't require an iSight, so most PC users would just use their current Firewire webcam, or buy a cheaper-then-iSight one. Apple wouldn't sell many iSights, and one of the big reasons to get a Mac would be gone (I think iChat, and future incarnations of it especially, completely dominates any PC video chat apps), so Apple might even lose Mac sales.

jasonbw
Jun 30, 2004, 12:42 PM
This is just great -- You're going to see a lot of printer manufactureres jump on this opportunity to make their printers uber-simple to use on a network. Consumer printers that hook up only to RJ45 (or 802.11 ;) ) and not USB are going to become much more common. They'll package the Rendezvous with their printer drivers, and shazam -- very simple to get the printer available to everyone on the network very easily.

AWESOME WORK, Apple. I don't scream that often, but this is great.

i dunno, a few printer companies are no doubt very happy to sell a $100+ addon card (yow. hp wants $300+ for an eio card) to let you network a printer.

Bendit
Jun 30, 2004, 12:44 PM
Maybe it allows for future iPod features...

Walk into a room with your iPod (with Rendezvous) and any computer (mac or pc) running iTunes can pick up your playlist.

Would also allow Macs and PCs in general to better detect/communicate with each other.

cc
I think you've got the right idea. It's to make cross platform apps be able to detect each other on different systems. This just makes it easier for developers to release on both platforms (or consider it). Sure rendezvous was a great feature but most people don't have several macs or get on a network with several macs. So most third party apps didn't have rendez vous technology. This way I can make a file sharing app on Mac and PC and have them work seamlessly (just an example).

As for the previous poster, iTunes already has the rendezvous technology built in. I stream music from my Mac to my PC and vice versa. Apple is just taking what they've already ported to the pc and making it available externally so everyone can use it. Makes me wonder if they also have Safari ready to release for the PC since I would assume that iTunes uses Safari/WebKit (or whatever) to render the iTMS.

But unless apple made safari have a native Windows interface it would never take off because Apple software on Windows is generally quite annoying to use. It's bearable for itunes and quicktime but it wouldn't fly well for an app like a web browser that you constantly use.

encro
Jun 30, 2004, 12:45 PM
Given that XCode distributed compile only works if both the OS and the gcc version are the same build and version, I really doubt it :)

I think Apple would get dgcc working on multiple 10.3.x installations before branching off to 10.3.x+Linux (and of course PPC+x86 gcc code bases) ...

While that may be true I'm pretty certain if you set up XGrid for multiple architectures (http://unu.novajo.ca/simple/archives/000026.html) and compile GCC 3.5 (http://gcc.gnu.org/) yourself then it's quite possible to do a distributed compile with other Unix systems.

This is an excellent decision that Apple chose to provide Rendezvous outside the Macintosh domain. It's simply great technology which is unfortunately being underutilised by many Mac developers at present. This can only be a good thing.

spankalee
Jun 30, 2004, 12:54 PM
Given that XCode distributed compile only works if both the OS and the gcc version are the same build and version, I really doubt it :)

I think Apple would get dgcc working on multiple 10.3.x installations before branching off to 10.3.x+Linux (and of course PPC+x86 gcc code bases) ...

GCC can cross compile, so this should be possible. In fact since XCode is just using distcc, this may already be possible.

Thom_Edwards
Jun 30, 2004, 12:58 PM
i just got through rolling my own mini-rendevous for a project up here at work. win, linux and mac all supported. and now, wouldn't ya know it, all the grunt work is freely available.

i (obviously) haven't tinkered with the sdk that apple offers for the non-mac platforms, but i hope that it won't be able to do what i just did! :eek: i hate have to (p)re-invent the wheel :cool:

jakemikey
Jun 30, 2004, 01:02 PM
I totally agree with everyone here. This is going to be big. Big. I envision a day where Windows won't even be able to run without Apple technology. Now that's the ultimate zinger. Even better than dominated marketshare, IMO.

Someone was worried that the broader drive of Apple into the peripheral market could potentially threaten the future of the Mac. I think as long as the Mac and OS X can pay for themselves (R&D, etc.) regardless of marketshare, we'll be okay. In fact, I think if anything, the adoption of peripherals by Windows users will help Mac sales.

And hey, worst case scenario: Mac market share .01%, losing money, peripherals doing great...you know with the Mac's last breath Steve would unleash OS X for x86. Goodbye Windows, hello OS X running on ugly computers (which is better than no OS X, in my opinion). I really don't see it coming to this, though!

Quark
Jun 30, 2004, 01:05 PM
I'm surprised that no one even mentioned the apparently obvious reason for this.

On the Mac, Airport Express needs Rendezvous to work with iTunes AND to enable the Print Server built into Airport Express.

This is now needed on the Windows platform.

The HTTP is partly for configuration.

However, Apple has alot more up their sleeve than just Airport Express, iTunes and Printing.

There is something very close on the horizon... think Tivo-ish, wireless and on steroids -- bearing in mind the "digital-hub".

Take Care,
Quark

Gasu E.
Jun 30, 2004, 01:05 PM
---------------------------------

Keep it up, Apple... You may make inroads (and BIG time deniro) YET...

Sounds like "raging bull" to me... :-)

cbiagini16
Jun 30, 2004, 01:09 PM
Makes me wonder if they also have Safari ready to release for the PC since I would assume that iTunes uses Safari/WebKit (or whatever) to render the iTMS.

Just FYI, it doesn't. :)

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/archives/2004_06.html#005666

I wonder *why* it doesn't, though. Seems like almost a no-brainer.

Trowaman
Jun 30, 2004, 01:12 PM
:eek: WOW! I NEVER THOUGHT THIS DAY WOULD COME!

Rendevous, in my opinion, has thus far been the most important feature to come out of OS X, exposé is second.

My friends have been wanting iChat AV, this might be a step towards iChat AV and fully compatible iSights for Windows (they only work with video right now)

Way to go Apple!

Jack White
Jun 30, 2004, 01:17 PM
can someone explain to me how this would work on a present Windows network? Does it need to be installed on everything? or would installing it 1 machine allow that machine to see everything auomatically?

1macker1
Jun 30, 2004, 01:17 PM
This is great, but it's not going to get users to convert. Apple tried this with the iPod, even though the iPod sells buy the truck load, the plan to get people switch buy giving them a taste of the Apple world has failed. Steve Jobs himself said this. So i just dont see the reasoning behind it.

I have a Mac and i dont even use Rendezvous, why they think the Windows crowd will.

fartheststar
Jun 30, 2004, 01:26 PM
They're just going to give Windows users enough of a taste to make them look at Macs. And, of course, enough of the technology to sell more of those non-Mac Apple products.

Apple won't make Windows as easy to use as a Mac. Ever. They just want a bit more mind-share. "See how cool we are? Macs have even more cool features...."

Sweet! In this day and age of "simplify" a lot of people would save a LOT of time on a mac. If they can get in and change perceptions with iPod, airport, tiger, new iMacs, tiger, Rendezvous and Tiger ;), maybe we will have more users convert.

Someone quoted something about this being another trojan horse. I hope that mac is using all of these things to switch users over, and I hope they get more "in their face" about how easy it is to use a mac! I will never go back...

1macker1
Jun 30, 2004, 01:33 PM
has to be installed on every machine.
can someone explain to me how this would work on a present Windows network? Does it need to be installed on everything? or would installing it 1 machine allow that machine to see everything auomatically?

tveric
Jun 30, 2004, 01:36 PM
WTF?!?! That better be a freaking typo. I DO NOT use Internet Exploder for anything other then Windows Updates. Apple dang well better support Mozilla and FireFox!! :confused:

You're kidding, right? Apple should support Mozilla and Firefox for the .1% of people using those browsers?

Your outrage at the decision to support IE is amusing.

bwawn
Jun 30, 2004, 01:36 PM
Just wanted to point out that this article says that, so far, Rendezvous has only been available on OS X. This is true; "Rendezvous" has only been available on OS X, but Zeroconf has already been available on other Unix platforms for even longer. As far as I understand, Rendezvous is just Apple's marketing name for Zeroconf. There are plenty of Linux-based programs that fully speak Rendezvous with OS X programs already.

I could be confused about this, but as far as I know -- at least for the Linux crowd -- this is no big deal at all since it's been available longer than it's been for OS X.

jakemikey
Jun 30, 2004, 01:38 PM
I'm surprised that no one even mentioned the apparently obvious reason for this.

On the Mac, Airport Express needs Rendezvous to work with iTunes AND to enable the Print Server built into Airport Express.

This is now needed on the Windows platform.




Dude, read the story before you post! (in the fine print) ;)

jakemikey
Jun 30, 2004, 01:43 PM
Just wanted to point out that this article says that, so far, Rendezvous has only been available on OS X. This is true; "Rendezvous" has only been available on OS X, but Zeroconf has already been available on other Unix platforms for even longer. As far as I understand, Rendezvous is just Apple's marketing name for Zeroconf. There are plenty of Linux-based programs that fully speak Rendezvous with OS X programs already.

I could be confused about this, but as far as I know -- at least for the Linux crowd -- this is no big deal at all since it's been available longer than it's been for OS X.


I think we all know that the technology is nothing new (no one's saying it is). What is a BIG deal is that Apple is bringing it to Windows. Apple takes great ideas and makes them work right.

Bulgroz
Jun 30, 2004, 01:47 PM
I totally agree with everyone here. This is going to be big. Big. I envision a day where Windows won't even be able to run without Apple technology. Now that's the ultimate zinger. Even better than dominated marketshare, IMO.

Say TrueType ?

Rasmuskl
Jun 30, 2004, 01:49 PM
What now Apple has to help the windows world with wireless networking. Whats next MS just hire Apple to write the next OS instead of just copying it. WOuld probably make it better.

Bulgroz
Jun 30, 2004, 01:50 PM
Err, you already do. I just bought a used three-year-old HP Laserjet 2100TN, cheap; it includes a built-in 10/100 Ethernet interface. It already supported Rendezvous as soon as I plugged it in to my network - the Macs just saw it, no config needed. Not sure if there was a firmware update in its past, but it doesn't matter - Rendezvous is built on published standards, so people have been able to implement it for a while.

I can be wrong but I think it's not thanks to Rendez-vous but to plain old AppleTalk that the Macs "just saw it".

ryanw
Jun 30, 2004, 01:55 PM
That hadn't occured to me, but it would make a lot of sense. I think Apple has seen the light of peripherals. After a payday like the iPod they should be looking to do more of this.

I own an iSight camera. It was $140 (I think) and it sits in my drawer all day, everyday. Once the 'video conferencing' is introduced that might make me break it out. But then I'd need to have 2 other people with macs that I'd like to look at. I'd love to use it for work, but I've been pushing the company I work for (HAL) to get macs for a long time and there's no way they're letting me get one let alone buy the whole group macs. They want us all to continue to use windows or linux on the thinkpad.

ryanw
Jun 30, 2004, 02:01 PM
You're kidding, right? Apple should support Mozilla and Firefox for the .1% of people using those browsers?

Your outrage at the decision to support IE is amusing.

Hum, interesting that a mac person is suggesting that it's okay for "apple" to ignore something based on small percentage user base. Macs are 1.5% - 3% user base compared to personal computer user base.

porky
Jun 30, 2004, 02:03 PM
And coming from Windows to Mac one of these weeks: Battlefield 1942: GOTY edition en Black Hawk Down, AMAZING GAMES, and now also for Mac :D Sorry, just good news, because my Windows PC is always full of Spyware :mad:

PlaceofDis
Jun 30, 2004, 02:05 PM
I own an iSight camera. It was $140 (I think) and it sits in my drawer all day, everyday. Once the 'video conferencing' is introduced that might make me break it out. But then I'd need to have 2 other people with macs that I'd like to look at. I'd love to use it for work, but I've been pushing the company I work for (HAL) to get macs for a long time and there's no way they're letting me get one let alone buy the whole group macs. They want us all to continue to use windows or linux on the thinkpad.

you can one way video chat, and you can video chat with windows users who have the latest AIM....thats all that is needed, either a mac with iChat av or a windows computer running the latest AIM and you can use your isight, you might not be able to see others but it can be put to use...

aboyko
Jun 30, 2004, 02:25 PM
I can be wrong but I think it's not thanks to Rendez-vous but to plain old AppleTalk that the Macs "just saw it".

Actually, I think you are wrong (though your answer makes sense), because the HP printer's configuration specifically referenced mDNS (multicast DNS, which I understand to be the core of Rendezvous) and the printer was specifically detected as a Rendezvous printer. Believe me, I was as surprised as you are...

But, your point is good: at some level, merely detecting a local printer on the network isn't anything spectacular. It should already work that way. Obviously, it wasn't hard for HP to support the idea a while back, and today's release is the missing piece that would have let our XP machine find the printer just as easily. Better late than never, and it's embarrassing for MS that Apple had to implement the solution on their behalf.

Plissken
Jun 30, 2004, 02:35 PM
Just FYI, it doesn't. :)

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/archives/2004_06.html#005666

I wonder *why* it doesn't, though. Seems like almost a no-brainer.

You corrected him before I could.

Spades
Jun 30, 2004, 02:38 PM
GCC can cross compile, so this should be possible. In fact since XCode is just using distcc, this may already be possible.

It is and it has been possible for awhile. The POSIX version of mDNSResponder mentioned is actually not new. Apple has offered it for awhile now.

Anyways, since XCode's distributed compiling just uses distcc, you've been able to use a Linux system to compile for awhile. You just need to compile gcc with powerpc-*-darwin* as a target, run the distcc server, and then use mDNSResponder to advertise the distcc server to your Mac. I think there's a hint on macosxhints.com (http://www.macosxhints.com) that details the setup. I've done this the other way around, using my Mac to compile for my Linux system.

SiliconAddict
Jun 30, 2004, 02:44 PM
You're kidding, right? Apple should support Mozilla and Firefox for the .1% of people using those browsers?

Your outrage at the decision to support IE is amusing.

And you are kidding right?!?!? IE is the most non compliant, most insecure piece of dog **** ever. If Apple is going to support a browser support them all with standards and stop feeding and damn beast. You want to know why you can't get at some websites with Safari? Look at IE and Frontpage and you have your answer. Stop being dense. There is zero reason Apple needs to support only one browser.

Windowlicker
Jun 30, 2004, 03:09 PM
this is a really good thing. of course there's the side where we mac users like to have the great stuff belong just to us, but in these cases I see it as a very important thing. now blending macs and pcs on a network will be even easier than before. so enviroments using both will have the easy access to the printers.

nice thing to home users with multiple computers too because they usually have USB ink jets.

Quark
Jun 30, 2004, 03:18 PM
Dude, read the story before you post! (in the fine print) ;)

Dude, I don't appreciate the exclamation in your statement, however, I understand your misunderstanding.

:)

I did read the article. My comments are still valid. Everyone is going off on a tangent about the meaning of this.

Read my post first before you make assumptions and twist the meaning. Words mean things.

I said "I'm surprised that no one even mentioned the apparently obvious reason for this." -- in context, this means that no one has commented on it in this forum/thread.

Note that the article does NOT mention iTunes for Windows. This is because iTunes for Windows does not have a full implementation of Rendezvous. iTunes for Windows has a subset of features that broadcasts and detects other iTunes "clients". The full implementation of Rendezvous is needed in Windows for the future products that I mentioned earlier.

Even the new Airport Express software for Windows doesn't have a full implementation of Rendezvous, but the hardware device is setup to meet the zero-configuration standards. The current Airport Express software for Windows sits on top of this and is also a subset of broadcast/detect. When the full Rendezvous technology/framework is implemented in Windows, you'll see some very neat things arrive for the PC, which is currently in development.

Anyway, have fun. I love MacRumors! :)

Take Care,
Quark

SiliconAddict
Jun 30, 2004, 03:28 PM
This is because iTunes for Windows does not have a full implementation of Rendezvous. iTunes for Windows has a subset of features that broadcasts and detects other iTunes "clients".


Which is prob why I'm had more then a few "issues" with iTunes picking up another broadcasting iTunes system on my network from time to time. I've had to play around with iTunes; turning the sharing and listening feature on and off on both systems until it magicly started working again.

I'm wondering if this is the reason....Apple implemented some bastardized version of Rendezvous :confused:

rjwill246
Jun 30, 2004, 03:52 PM
The problem is that iChat AV doesn't require an iSight, so most PC users would just use their current Firewire webcam, so Apple might even lose Mac sales.
Nope. That was the logic that kept Apple from doing anything with Windows before and it produced a disastrous result. Keeping a great Apple product only for Mac users has not worked. Apple seems now to acknowledge this and if they can make PCs function better with Apple software and some hardware, then the real switch is taking place. It is slower, but the erosion of Apple market share was slow too, so the watch-word here is 'PATIENCE!' A story in Douglas Bader's "Reach for the Sky" told of an old bull and a young bull surveying a paddock of cows and the young bull said to the old one, "Quick, lets charge down there and ***** one. The old bull replied, ""Patience my boy, let's amble down there and **** the lot!" Funny when you think of Windows users!

rhpenguin
Jun 30, 2004, 03:59 PM
That hadn't occured to me, but it would make a lot of sense. I think Apple has seen the light of peripherals. After a payday like the iPod they should be looking to do more of this.


They should start making BETTER computers.... ones whos components dont break inside of a year.

MCCFR
Jun 30, 2004, 04:18 PM
Whilst looking for the reasoning for this, it helps if you're not distracted by Apple's quite brilliant act of what magicians call misdirection and military types call diversion.

This is a move which is actually designed to improve the take-up of xServe and Rendezvous-capable client/server apps in a heterogeneous computing environment, and alongside xSan and 10.4 Server's improvements will make Windows Server 2003 seem like a Heath Robinson piece of crap.

You have to admire Steve Jobs and his demonic pixies (Schiller, Ives, Tevanian et al) for the way they're turning up the pressure in such a quiet understated way.

BornAgainMac
Jun 30, 2004, 05:06 PM
I smell a new Apple device coming soon. I can't believe Apple would release this technology to Windows to make Windows better for the heck of it.

It could be an Apple Tivo device or music thing.

Sabbath
Jun 30, 2004, 05:32 PM
I smell a new Apple device coming soon. I can't believe Apple would release this technology to Windows to make Windows better for the heck of it.

It could be an Apple Tivo device or music thing.

Yeah it definitely seems there would be some bigger motive behind this, I wonder what it might be however when you look at the number of different OS's they are supporting. All the recent products only seem to support win2000 and XP so I really wonder where this is going.

MhzDoesMatter
Jun 30, 2004, 05:45 PM
And you are kidding right?!?!? IE is the most non compliant, most insecure piece of dog **** ever. If Apple is going to support a browser support them all with standards and stop feeding and damn beast. There is zero reason Apple needs to support only one browser.

It's still incredibly amusing to see posters make such definitive statements about something they obviously no little about. For instance, how do you know it's not using a standard, just one that your browsers haven't included because its not web-related? How do you know it's not a new standard all together? How do you know you're not making yourself seem less intelligent by not reading further than the first screen?


now blending macs and pcs on a network will be even easier than before. so enviroments using both will have the easy access to the printers.

I have to say, this one gets my vote. No upcoming digital devices or multi-platform video conferencing makes as much since as Apple simply wanting their computers to work better on corporate networks.


That was the logic that kept Apple from doing anything with Windows before and it produced a disastrous result. Keeping a great Apple product only for Mac users has not worked. Apple seems now to acknowledge this and if they can make PCs function better with Apple software and some hardware, then the real switch is taking place.

I don't think so. Apple has only released one actual product for the Mac recently and it has little to do with computing experience. The iPod is not a computer peripheral, it's a consumer device that just happens to use a computer. (Otherwise, we could call a remote that downloads device codes from a comp a computer peripheral.) And the iPod is a mass market cash cow which is unparalleled by competitors. No such comparison can be made to the iSight, whose utility, value, and appeal is much smaller.


Even the new Airport Express software for Windows doesn't have a full implementation of Rendezvous, but the hardware device is setup to meet the zero-configuration standards. The current Airport Express software for Windows sits on top of this and is also a subset of broadcast/detect.

This is curious. For one, I didn't know there was an Airport Express software. Are you referring to the AirTunes feature of iTunes? I'd assumed it was just announcing itself as an audio device and iTunes was picking it up. I'd also assumed that contrary to your post iTunes full utilized rendezvous but only announced itself. It doesn't appear that "full rendezvous" is a system level functionality which I think is where some may assume iTunes for win must use some subset. If it had to be system wide, would todays release be possible? They didn't release an update to Windows and Microsoft has accepted it into their OS. From what I read under subsequent links, Apple only released the SDK's to allow software developers to add rendezvous to their applications. I doubt they'd release any bastardized version to developers as their is a standard, and Microsoft's admittedly unlikely adoption of the standard later might render any poor implementation or imitation obsolete and broken.


-Hertz

Often wonder if any of my posts are at all coherent.

virividox
Jun 30, 2004, 05:55 PM
what would be scarey if apple bcomes a big time windows developer hhehehe

dashiel
Jun 30, 2004, 07:36 PM
It's still incredibly amusing to see posters make such definitive statements about something they obviously no little about. For instance, how do you know it's not using a standard, just one that your browsers haven't included because its not web-related? How do you know it's not a new standard all together? How do you know you're not making yourself seem less intelligent by not reading further than the first screen?

that seems fairly harsh, it's more than likely the original poster was talking about web standards (as we are talking about a web browser), and IE for windows is notoriously poor at adhering to the standards set forth by the W3. fwiw microsoft don't seem to do well with standards at all, preferring to release proprietary solutions, so even if there were some other standard the chance that MS is using it are slim.

Quark
Jun 30, 2004, 11:16 PM
-Hertz

Often wonder if any of my posts are at all coherent.

Your post was one of the MOST coherent and well thought out that I have seen in a long while. Great sense of humor!

Anyway, the answer is yes... and no. iTunes 4.6 for Windows has "AirTunes" which is a subset of Rendezvous. If you'll note on Apples website, in reference to Airport Express, it says
AirPort Express uses the revolutionary Rendezvous technology in Mac OS X to allow your AirPort-equipped Macs running Mac OS X to detect each other with no effort on your part — they discover each other just by virtue of being within the range of the network.

The wording is very carefully chosen, it is no accident. They never say that it uses "Rendezvous" on the PC, in any of the text, anywhere.

However, there is software that needs be installed to setup/configure the Airport Express. It's called Airport Express Assistant. Once Airport Express is setup (using either the Win PC or OS X), then AirTunes kicks in on iTunes and does its magic.

I am a developer. As far as the SDK is concerned, you are correct that Apple would not release a "bastardized" version of Rendezvous. The SDK contains the framework for Rendezvous so that people can develop for it on other platforms and creating the ZeroConf standard across the board. Rendezvous will be a Windows "service" that runs in the back ground and will compete with Microsofts own version of zero-configuration (called Zero Client Configuration or Automatic Wireless Configration) -- which has flaws, isn't based on the ZeroConf standards, and causes conflicts with... well, I'm going off on a tangent here. Sorry about that.

What I think you understood me saying is not what I was saying. Uhm, bear with me here. Currently, some Apple software uses a subset of Rendezvous - iTunes 4.6 with AirTunes. This is separate and apart from the "Rendezvous" SDK that they released. Apple wants developers, for the MS platform, to start building things based on the Rendezvous standard that will use this technology in the same way that iTunes 4.6 does with Airport Express. And there's the "hook". Once the power of this gets fully implemented in the Windows PC, before you know it, companies will be offering products that rely on Rendezvous for certain features to work and work well. With the new thing coming up from Apple that will require Rendezvous on the PC, this is great. People will get more and more exposure to Apple products (i.e. devices/components) and MS will fade away to some white noise in the background. We are not there yet and the goal of the plan calls for a 10 year time span before people will just wake up one day and then say to themselves, "whatever happened to MS?"

Gotta run.

Take Care,
Quark

sjk
Jun 30, 2004, 11:51 PM
At first glance (I haven't downloaded it) this looks like an Apple-branded version of Porchdog Software's Howl (http://www.porchdogsoft.com/products/howl/).

sjk
Jul 1, 2004, 12:00 AM
Often wonder if any of my posts are at all coherent.Quite a few forum posts make me wonder if their authors are coherent readers. ;)

coolfactor
Jul 1, 2004, 12:57 AM
Err, you already do. I just bought a used three-year-old HP Laserjet 2100TN, cheap; it includes a built-in 10/100 Ethernet interface. It already supported Rendezvous as soon as I plugged it in to my network - the Macs just saw it, no config needed. Not sure if there was a firmware update in its past, but it doesn't matter - Rendezvous is built on published standards, so people have been able to implement it for a while.


The magic you saw was that OS X comes with many printer drivers pre-installed. When the printer announced itself, the Mac was able to determine what it was and loaded the correct driver. I don't believe Rendezvous played a part in this. I could be wrong.

coolfactor
Jul 1, 2004, 01:04 AM
Just wanted to point out that this article says that, so far, Rendezvous has only been available on OS X. This is true; "Rendezvous" has only been available on OS X, but Zeroconf has already been available on other Unix platforms for even longer. As far as I understand, Rendezvous is just Apple's marketing name for Zeroconf. There are plenty of Linux-based programs that fully speak Rendezvous with OS X programs already.

I could be confused about this, but as far as I know -- at least for the Linux crowd -- this is no big deal at all since it's been available longer than it's been for OS X.

You're absolutely right, and as posted already, Apple knows how to make something completely invisible or "seamless". A great technology isn't great until its implementation is great.

coolfactor
Jul 1, 2004, 01:08 AM
And you are kidding right?!?!? IE is the most non compliant, most insecure piece of dog **** ever. If Apple is going to support a browser support them all with standards and stop feeding and damn beast. You want to know why you can't get at some websites with Safari? Look at IE and Frontpage and you have your answer. Stop being dense. There is zero reason Apple needs to support only one browser.

Those of you going on about browser support.. this is a "Preview" of Rendezvous on Windows. The IE implementation is a demonstration only. Expect that system-wide support will come. This is step one.

coolfactor
Jul 1, 2004, 01:12 AM
A story in Douglas Bader's "Reach for the Sky" told of an old bull and a young bull surveying a paddock of cows and the young bull said to the old one, "Quick, lets charge down there and ***** one. The old bull replied, ""Patience my boy, let's amble down there and **** the lot!" Funny when you think of Windows users!


Thank you, thank you! What a great post! Made me laugh sooooo hard.

SiliconAddict
Jul 1, 2004, 01:41 AM
It's still incredibly amusing to see posters make such definitive statements about something they obviously no little about. For instance, how do you know it's not using a standard, just one that your browsers haven't included because its not web-related? How do you know it's not a new standard all together? How do you know you're not making yourself seem less intelligent by not reading further than the first screen?



HA! :D Thank you. You made my day. You obviously know nothing about IE, web site development, or Windows in general.

Case in point:
Article 1 (http://channels.lockergnome.com/news/archives/20040615_why_you_should_dump_internet_explorer.phtml)
Article 2 (http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer.html)

Go out and do a google search on Internet Explorer and compatibility before you start telling the world how good it is. You are the weakest link, Goodbye.

savar
Jul 1, 2004, 02:53 AM
Isn't it interesting how Apple is starting to write more and more software for Windows?

Quicktime, then iTunes, now Rendezvous. (I've probably missed some)

Just like MS has Office on the mac platform. It's a very smart move. Here's to hoping that it catches on with Winfolk.

sjk
Jul 1, 2004, 04:45 AM
Isn't it interesting how Apple is starting to write more and more software for Windows?

Quicktime, then iTunes, now Rendezvous. (I've probably missed some)I'm not convinced Apple wrote the Windows Rendezvous code; see my earlier post re: Howl.

Waragainstsleep
Jul 1, 2004, 06:28 AM
Hold up, does this mean I'll soon be able to offload some of my XCode compile to my Linux webserver? If so, kickass!

You already can:

http://www.novajo.ca/simple/archives/000026.html

I think this might be part of the reason Apple has made rendezvous cross-platform. The link above has been up since before WWDC, and Apple are rumoured to have helped in the process of creating the *nix Agent app.

Expect Xgrid for windows.......

eSnow
Jul 1, 2004, 06:43 AM
It's still incredibly amusing to see posters make such definitive statements about something they obviously no little about. For instance, how do you know it's not using a standard, just one that your browsers haven't included because its not web-related? How do you know it's not a new standard all together? How do you know you're not making yourself seem less intelligent by not reading further than the first screen?


Uhm you made quite a fool of yourself. The guy was referring to IE's totally crappy standards-support when it comes to HTML and CSS - and rightly so.

Besides, IE is notorious for having security holes of the worst kind, so requiring it is a really bad idea, no matter for what.

No need to wonder any further, your post was semi-coherent at best.

1macker1
Jul 1, 2004, 09:15 AM
I agree 100%
They should start making BETTER computers.... ones whos components dont break inside of a year.
They haven't seen any payoff from the iPod from a computer market share point of view. They just leading the MP3 market. Wonder why I don't see many switcher stories anymore.

1macker1
Jul 1, 2004, 09:19 AM
If you got rid of IE, then Mac users would be left out in the cold on too many sites. I go to several sites regulary that say "mac user should use IE 5 or above, or use Netscape."
HA! :D Thank you. You made my day. You obviously know nothing about IE, web site development, or Windows in general.

Case in point:
Article 1 (http://channels.lockergnome.com/news/archives/20040615_why_you_should_dump_internet_explorer.phtml)
Article 2 (http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer.html)

Go out and do a google search on Internet Explorer and compatibility before you start telling the world how good it is. You are the weakest link, Goodbye.
Do a search on Safari and compatibility, and you will find some issues also.

GregA
Jul 3, 2004, 06:22 PM
Man, does Windows need this. Badly. It's such a pain in the ass to set up a local network on even two Windows XP machines - I set one up at my sister's house between three computers, two of them with wireless cards, and it routinely decides not to work. Sometimes the Internet conks out, usually the file sharing doesn't work, and sometimes ALL of it dies, requiring restarts on any machine involved.

A far cry from my easy, flawless, 2-imacs and 1 PB network at my house.I doubt simply adding Rendezvous will fix your problems.

The PC running Windows is going to become the digital hub for the majority of peripheral hardware that will be coming out of Cupertino. Along with iTunes, this is one Trojan horse you just have to love. Sweet.Yeah, many people have Windows. As people add devices to their home, speaking with Windows will be important. Apple wants to play too so Rendezvous is a great start.

My current biggest question is what is the next version of Quicktime going to do on Windows. The video and image abilities are being separated and integrated into the Tiger OS, it's already the audio basis for iTunes (on Windows too), it's being used in iChat, and it's the obvious point of integration with television (for Apple anyway). So this is where I'm expecting big new things.