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View Full Version : Sony Vaio X - edit... Atom Processor :( edit again... maybe not :)




elppa
Sep 2, 2009, 11:09 AM
I think the bar has just been raised.

- Carbon Fibre + Aluminium
- 11.1" Widescreen Matte Display
- 700g (Air is 1360kg)
- 14mm thin (Air is 4 – 19.4mm)
- WWAN
- 2GB
- 2x USB
- SD/Memory Card Slot
- Ethernet
- Kensington Security Lock
- VGA out only
- All Day Battery
- Windows 7
- <$2000

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/09/sony-vaio-x-23dsc_0052.jpg

I'm sure there are catches, but first impressions :D

Curious VGA port – I assume for business users who need to connect to projectors.

from engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/02/sony-announces-vaio-x-ultraportable/).

EDIT: It's an Atom. I thought this was in the same class as the Air, X301 and the recently discontinued TT. Clearly not. Serves me right for getting excited.

EDIT: Looks like the final specs are far from confirmed and it may not sport an Atom. Final specs in October. Retails 1 week after Windows 7 launches (so it will run Windows 7).



fireshot91
Sep 2, 2009, 11:11 AM
Processor speed/type limits, Hard Drive speed limits (probably), RAM limits, FSB limits


^ Reasons why it won't compete with MBA

elppa
Sep 2, 2009, 11:14 AM
Processor speed/type limits, Hard Drive speed limits (probably), RAM limits, FSB limits


^ Reasons why it won't compete with MBA

I shouldn't get excited before reading the specs. The thing was, recently they (Sony) discontinued the TT, which used ULV processors. I assumed (wrongly) this would be the natural replacement. Not that they would cheap out and go down the atom route.

Joe23
Sep 2, 2009, 11:18 AM
I was genuinely excited until I saw the word "Atom".

/continues to hug his MBA.

Hrududu
Sep 2, 2009, 11:22 AM
Smaller screen, weaker processor, Windows Vista, the backlight looks like crap. It is REALLY light though.

I think the Air is pretty safe for now.

Jobsian
Sep 2, 2009, 11:22 AM
Wow!!

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/09/sony-vaio-x-11dsc_0031.jpg

If only it wasn't an Atom, really would put me off almost instantly :(

Jobsian
Sep 2, 2009, 11:24 AM
Smaller screen, weaker processor, Windows Vista.

I think the Air is pretty safe for now.
What?!! Why on the lord's earth would they butcher it with Vista....breathtakingly terrible decision imo

elppa
Sep 2, 2009, 11:29 AM
What?!! Why on the lord's earth would they butcher it with Vista....breathtakingly terrible decision imo

I could be wrong (as I haven't seen anywhere to confirm the OS choice) but it would seem obvious to put Windows 7 on it, which the Atom handles ok.

Sony put Vista on the P, so they must think it is good enough for an Atom. Problem is, the rest of the world disagrees.

Jobsian
Sep 2, 2009, 11:30 AM
With a carbon fiber body, thinner than Air and nearly twice lighter (700g Vs Air's 1.36kg), VGA port, competition-decimating battery ("will set the new standard for stamina" according to Sony), this could have been a very very good machine.

But Atom.... eugh

Still, what a light machine, carbon fiber too so will be strong!

Jobsian
Sep 2, 2009, 11:32 AM
I could be wrong (as I haven't seen anywhere to confirm the OS choice) but it would seem obvious to put Windows 7 on it, which the Atom handles ok.
Ah ok, I'll have to edit my post - if Vista's not already confirmed by Sony themselves I don't imagine it'll suit their interest to commit suicide!

I guess almost certainly Win 7, which while it isn't Snow Leopard, is much better than Vista

Jobsian
Sep 2, 2009, 11:34 AM
Ah guys, this is important news to bear in mind - according to Engadget:

"final specs haven't been locked in"

I wonder what they'll be, this could change the game somewhat....

mkrishnan
Sep 2, 2009, 11:36 AM
I'd be interested in it except that, as Engadget observes, Sony is probably going to charge something fairly ridiculous for it. Maybe this will charge Asus or someone else with coming up with something like this at a reasonable price.

Also I'd wonder exactly what they have in mind for an "all day" battery that sets "new standards for stamina." Apple uses the "all day" slogan for its batteries that last 7-8 hours, and there are already netbooks with Atoms that are as much as 50% longer lasting, with more on the way, so I wonder if they really have something good here in terms of battery life or if they're really excessively exaggerating.

Jobsian
Sep 2, 2009, 11:38 AM
Aside from what final specs they choose, it'll be interesting to note what price they'll sell the thing at, bearing in mind this looks to be going head to head with the now reduced-price Air and the Lenovo

Come on Jobs, show us your earth-crushing retort!

Exciting times :D

Jobsian
Sep 2, 2009, 11:45 AM
I'd be interested in it except that, as Engadget observes, Sony is probably going to charge something fairly ridiculous for it. Maybe this will charge Asus or someone else with coming up with something like this at a reasonable price.Hopefully not too much, especially if it's an Atom as if its price approaches anything near the Air, it's a no-brainer surely (unless they bury the Atom's deficiencies by aggressively market the superior portability)


Also I'd wonder exactly what they have in mind for an "all day" battery that sets "new standards for stamina." Apple uses the "all day" slogan for its batteries that last 7-8 hours, and there are already netbooks with Atoms that are as much as 50% longer lasting, with more on the way, so I wonder if they really have something good here in terms of battery life or if they're really excessively exaggerating.According to Sony, the battery "will set the new standard for stamina". Let's see what they come up with.

Maybe they mean "all-day" for northern Greenland?

mkrishnan
Sep 2, 2009, 11:53 AM
Hopefully not too much, especially if it's an Atom as if its price approaches anything near the Air, it's a no-brainer surely (unless they bury the Atom's deficiencies by aggressively market the superior portability)

I can see some premium over the netbook market, but based on that list of specs, this thing really is worth at most around $600... and I have a really hard time believing Sony will launch it there.

darrellishere
Sep 2, 2009, 12:07 PM
If they put in the new dual core atom 330 and the Ion chipset, with 4gb of Ram it will perform exceptionally! Carbon fiber too! mmm! 1.5lb (Very good)!

I reckon the new redesigned thinner Macbook's will sport the new dual core atom / Nvidia Ion combo. Maybe white carbon fiber? LOL

So apple could have a powerful net-book after all. The all suiting reinvented Low cost White Macbook.

Have you seen these chips perform, they will cut it for the low end macbook user! Eg HD Video, games, plenty of ram.

Net-book tech finally has reached the expected point of processing and graphics power!

(As long as the iLife sweet of apps and snow leopard run well on the hardware).

mkrishnan
Sep 2, 2009, 12:10 PM
If they put in the new dual core atom 330 and the Ion chipset, with 4gb of Ram it will perform exceptionally! Carbon fiber too! mmm! 1.5lb (Very good)!

I think if you're expecting a 14mm, 0.7 kg notebook to run the Atom 330, the Ion, and 4GB of RAM, you have a very forgiving definition of all-day battery. ;)

hitekalex
Sep 2, 2009, 12:26 PM
Smaller screen, weaker processor, Windows Vista, the backlight looks like crap. It is REALLY light though.

I think the Air is pretty safe for now.

You forgot the ugly VGA out port that sticks out like a sore thumb on this thing.

elppa
Sep 2, 2009, 12:38 PM
I think if you're expecting a 14mm, 0.7 kg notebook to run the Atom 330, the Ion, and 4GB of RAM, you have a very forgiving definition of all-day battery. ;)

Maybe they take long lunches? :)

I can see some premium over the netbook market, but based on that list of specs, this thing really is worth at most around $600... and I have a really hard time believing Sony will launch it there.

This is a typical reaction to many recent Apple products i.e. “I would buy it if it was $300 cheaper”.

Sony's aim is to get back to creating aspirational products… maybe they will sell after all… Some of the engineering on this thing looks stunning. Love the fold out Ethernet port, very clever.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/09/sony-vaio-xdsc_6870-engadget.jpg

darrellishere
Sep 2, 2009, 12:44 PM
Well maybe it will be the crappy single core 1.6, which I've heard are really bad. But I do think the Atoms in general seem to be heading in the right directon ;) Great Photo!!

mkrishnan
Sep 2, 2009, 01:16 PM
Sony's aim is to get back to creating aspirational products… maybe they will sell after all… Some of the engineering on this thing looks stunning. Love the fold out Ethernet port, very clever.

Maybe, but the $600 is already a 65-100% premium over comparable products -- it's hardly a bargain basement price. So this would be like Apple selling the 13" MBP for $2000+ or something. Creating aspirational products is great... pasting the aspirational label on something to justify an excessive price tag is different. I've often paid a lot for something I really like and will usually do so over paying less for something I don't like. But if they were, for instance, to put your Atom 330 and Ion in it and 4GB of RAM and it ended up with a 3.5 hour battery life... well... that's not something I aspire to. When a notebook weighs 700g but you can't take it anywhere without a bulky power supply, I feel that obviates the appeal of the light weight somewhat.

That all being said, it's pretty -- I'll give it that. I'll be interested to see how it shakes out.

SeaneyC
Sep 2, 2009, 04:12 PM
If this turns out to have a nice CULV instead of Atom, and with the 10hrs plus speculated battery life, this will be an instant buy for my work PC.

Integrated WWAN, funky ethernet port, SD/MS slot, 11.1" screen (hopefully 1280x800 or similar) MATTE, 700g, this is a beast!

And the price tag is pretty reasonable give what this packs in.

Shame there's no Mac OS, but I can live without it for work. DAY ONE!

DAMNiatx
Sep 2, 2009, 04:30 PM
Macbook Air just got serious rival from our Big Brother Sony...
hahahaha... :D

bloodycape
Sep 2, 2009, 04:30 PM
I'd like to think the Sony Vaio Z compares with the Air better, while still competing with the 13in MB, because it has the same specs as the Pro but with the weight of the Air. This just a 11in netbook. BTW with my Vaio TT a C2D SU930 1.2ghz(with speedstep ocing to 1.5ghz at time) I can get 6.5 hour with wifi and the dvd drive on, and one notch lower than 50%. Now if i turn of my DVD drive I can get an extra 30min I bet. The 13.1in Vaio Z gets 6 hours on stamina mode with the 4500hd gpu from what I hear, with the base battery and 9 hours with the larger battery. I have also read the Asia only 12in G3, can get 12 hours with the 6cell(?). So, I can see this getting like 9 hours with base battery and 12 with a larger one. I guess they are trying to take off where the X505 left things. Well at least with the Vista, Sony is offering a free upgrade to Windows 7, which is better than Vista. Shame Apple doesn't make an 11in device, or else I'd have one.

I just read that Sony said the Max price will be $2000, which I take is with a 256, or 512gb SSD, maybe a Core 2 Duo, or what ever low power Pineview CPU that comes out in the next few months.

elppa
Sep 2, 2009, 04:59 PM
If this turns out to have a nice CULV instead of Atom, and with the 10hrs plus speculated battery life, this will be an instant buy for my work PC.

Integrated WWAN, funky ethernet port, SD/MS slot, 11.1" screen (hopefully 1280x800 or similar) MATTE, 700g, this is a beast!

And the price tag is pretty reasonable give what this packs in.

Shame there's no Mac OS, but I can live without it for work. DAY ONE!

I feel the processor choice is crucial. Provided it can do HD video I think that is reasonable baseline.

Of all the video output options (DVI, HDMI, Display Port, Mini Display Port Proprietary with adapters) VGA is the worst for technology enthusiasts. It does make some sense as business customers and students are likely to want to hook it up to a projector at some stage. This is an ultra portable – you have to expect some compromises. I just hoped when I first saw it that Sony would have put HDMI out.

bloodycape
Sep 2, 2009, 05:26 PM
I feel the processor choice is crucial. Provided it can do HD video I think that is reasonable baseline.

If this comes with at least the intel 4500hd it can do HD video, heck from what I hear the the Atom Z cpu, with the Intel GMA500(like in the Vaio P, and a few other netbooks) can do HD, with a few videos causing a bit of a stutter. So, unless your talking about Flash HD, which requires at least the Dual Core cpu view it with out to much of a lag, then HD video isn't the best of marks imo. Oddly enough, the GMA950, which older Macbooks and many netbooks have, can't do HD video(with out stuttering), but do have slight better gaming performances vs the GMA500.

I am hearing that if this comes with a Pineview cpu it will have 18W combined power usage(gpu and cpu), vs the 10w for the SU9x00 line and 17w for the SL line cpu. I hear the gpu should be better than the intel 4500hd but not sure about the cpu, but it could be faster than the SU and SL @ lower power usage?

Jobsian
Sep 2, 2009, 07:43 PM
I have to say I'm very excited about what the top spec is going to be for this

If it's anything even approaching some of the more optimistic guesses in the thread so far, I'll be interested.

Sensational form factor, almost 1/2 the weight of the MBA! Love the addition of carbon fiber. The form factor is what makes me so excited about devices like this and the Air.

However if it's too much of a performance hit eg X505 or Vaio P (except for the damn lucky Japanese), then I lose interest. Every time I read electronics websites and I see a new laptop in a nice form factor come along like the Adamo which piques my interest, as soon as my eyes fall on words like "Atom", "PATA", "1GB", "Intel graphics" my interest drops to zero. Same for the word "Vista". The only OS's I'd have on such a device are MacOS and XP. Win 7 at a push.

bloodycape
Sep 2, 2009, 07:46 PM
I got this from another forum.
"Pineview/Pinetrail is the next generation Atom. So far the only know processor is the N450, which is basically an N280 with the gpu moved onto the cpu die. It will be 64-bit and support DDR2-667 memory. It is still single core, and not better than an SL or SU processor."

So, if it is 64bit then that means there should be 4gb of ram support, and possibly 6gb or even 8gb of unofficial support.

Jobsian
Sep 2, 2009, 07:47 PM
I have to say I hope the specs are sensational for this, if only to provoke an even stronger response from Apple's MBA division :D

slapguts
Sep 2, 2009, 07:58 PM
http://gizmodo.com/5351061/rail+thin-carbon-fiber-sony-vaio-x-series-video-and-details

Giz did a bit on this, and has a video which shows almost nothing.

There is a screencap of what looks to be an extremely flimsy lid. Not sure how displays handle this kind of bending over time.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/4/2009/09/b3dbd99a49a42ba9d11291abbb14b5d9/340x.jpg

elppa
Sep 2, 2009, 08:17 PM
http://gizmodo.com/5351061/rail+thin-carbon-fiber-sony-vaio-x-series-video-and-details

Giz did a bit on this, and has a video which shows almost nothing.

There is a screencap of what looks to be an extremely flimsy lid. Not sure how displays handle this kind of bending over time.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/4/2009/09/b3dbd99a49a42ba9d11291abbb14b5d9/340x.jpg

I think this is fairly typical of the high end VAIO range, as the Z lid flexes a fair bit as well. I think you'd have to be fairly clumsy to do any lasting damage to it though.

Gen
Sep 2, 2009, 08:38 PM
That is sexy.

bloodycape
Sep 2, 2009, 09:18 PM
I think that is typical of most Carbon Fiber lids, I know my TT does it, and I haven't heard of an issue yet. Sadly I am also reading that if this comes with Pineview it be using a modified inte gma500 gpu, which does hd. However, isn't OSX compatible like the most other Atom netbooks with the gma950.

coldmack
Sep 2, 2009, 10:44 PM
I don't know why this being compared to the MBA since this is 11in netbook. Alright so it is the MBA of netbooks but still.

SeaneyC
Sep 3, 2009, 08:12 AM
I don't know why this being compared to the MBA since this is 11in netbook. Alright so it is the MBA of netbooks but still.

Did you even read the article? There's quite a possibility that this WON'T come with an Atom processor, at which point it becomes a real threat to the Air. Almost as powerful, but twice the battery life, with HALF the weight and smaller size? It's not just an 11inch netbook.

MacModMachine
Sep 3, 2009, 09:01 AM
Did you even read the article? There's quite a possibility that this WON'T come with an Atom processor, at which point it becomes a real threat to the Air. Almost as powerful, but twice the battery life, with HALF the weight and smaller size? It's not just an 11inch netbook.

it will only have a atom,

there is no way they can cool a ulv chip in that.

Jobsian
Sep 3, 2009, 09:26 AM
Ooh interesting news RE the processor, from Engadget:

"According to Sony, the choice of an Atom processor is far from decided and is only on display to run the engineering prototypes here at IFA, so there's still hope for at least CULV internals when this thing ships."

Jobsian
Sep 3, 2009, 09:27 AM
Engadget also say:

"P.S. It'll be announced with official specs in October with units available for retail about a week after Windows 7 launches."

Jobsian
Sep 3, 2009, 09:29 AM
Here's Engadget's hands-on: http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/02/hands-on-sony-x-series-slimster/

Doesn't sound too powerful with its current processor. Really hope they bump it for final release.

Jobsian
Sep 3, 2009, 09:38 AM
You know, the more I look at this (it must be stunning to hold), the more I think "imagine what the next iteration of an Air might be" - with even this Vaio X wasting space with things like folding feet and a removable battery, imagine what Apple's Air division will be able to do with a unibody design/non-removable battery etc

Come on Apple, pleeeease announce another Air!

Outrigger
Sep 3, 2009, 09:45 AM
I just read that Sony said the Max price will be $2000, which I take is with a 256, or 512gb SSD, maybe a Core 2 Duo, or what ever low power Pineview CPU that comes out in the next few months.

a notebook that has a 512GB SSD priced at $2k or below? Please, whatever you're smoking, please pass it this way cause it must be really good.

Prices for a 512GB SSD ALONE is over $1K. Sony makes premium products and charges a premium price for it. Whats reasonable about the Vaio P that they charge $800 for?

SeaneyC
Sep 3, 2009, 02:42 PM
it will only have a atom,

there is no way they can cool a ulv chip in that.

The TDP on the Pentium M 1.1 in the old X505 was 5W, with 5 year old cooling tech, the new CULV chips are 10W, maybe there's a new dual core CULV chip in the works they are waiting on? The current MBAir chip is 17W, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that this won't be an Atom based model.

Don't get me wrong, i'm fully aware that it won't be a 2.13Ghz C2D, but I personally don't think most people need it.

IF Sony can deliver this laptop with a CULV i think it will sell in significant numbers. I just wish Apple would produce something similar, the form factor is amazing.

fehhkk
Sep 3, 2009, 02:54 PM
The main thing I like about the Apple notebooks (MBP and MBA) is the Ion platform (9400M). You have no idea how much the integrated Intel Graphics cards suck until you use them (I have an N270 Atom with an Intel GMA950 and video performance is AWEFUL).

Why can't more vendors adopt this?

mkrishnan
Sep 3, 2009, 03:03 PM
The main thing I like about the Apple notebooks (MBP and MBA) is the Ion platform (9400M). You have no idea how much the integrated Intel Graphics cards suck until you use them (I have an N270 Atom with an Intel GMA950 and video performance is AWEFUL).

Why can't more vendors adopt this?

Well, Apple themselves didn't exactly adopt this years and years ago. :p

There are a number of netbooks coming out with Ion this fall, although I think it just doesn't get the kind of battery life the Atom does with the 950.

The other problem is that an Atom + Ion combo does well with highly accelerate-able video but not with things like Flash (or QT in Windows, as I understand it). So that means that Hulu for instance isn't that great on an Atom+Ion machine -- it's the C2D that's helping you there and not the Ion.

bloodycape
Sep 3, 2009, 03:22 PM
a notebook that has a 512GB SSD priced at $2k or below? Please, whatever you're smoking, please pass it this way cause it must be really good.

Prices for a 512GB SSD ALONE is over $1K. Sony makes premium products and charges a premium price for it. Whats reasonable about the Vaio P that they charge $800 for?

Ah, didn't know 512ssd cost that much. Thought it cost a little less. I doubt this can fit 2 x 256 ssd like the thicker TT can, but one can hope for 512gb ssd drive. I do agree there is nothing reasonable about the Vaio P, but I can see why some would get a P. Now if the P was lets say $300-$400 like most netbooks(hell even $450 with a 80gb ssd that is wouldn't be too bad), I would have possibly gotten one to complement my MBP instead. Now if the X comes with a CULV with gpu that is better than what my TT has I'd go for it.

tim2006
Sep 10, 2009, 07:01 AM
is it led?

Gruber
Sep 10, 2009, 10:46 AM
Two days ago, I had a chance to try this thing at IFA in Berlin. I loved the form factor and the robust feel. There is some flex, but it does not feel flimsy at all.
The display lighting was adequate for an ultraportable, and the subjective speed was ok too.

Unlike a certain Apple computer, it comes with a reasonable set of ports (Ethernet, 2xUSB, VGA, no asinine proprietary video output).

The attendants told me that it would run 8h with the current 4 cell battery, and that other battery options would currently be considered. They refused to be specific wrt the processor, but we can expect some kind of CULV, above the current Atoms, and below the current Air. (The did not build a fan into the design.)

I was unhappy with the keyboard, though. Like in the Vaio P, it is put into a depression with a relatively sharp border below the bottom row. When you press the space bar, your thumb will come to rest on that border. Generally, the chiclet keys are widely spaced but do not have the same satisfying feel as in Apple's current devices.

700g is absolutely amazing (this is a little more than half the weight of an Air). The form factor is perfect for my needs, and the speed is sufficient. I would consider paying up to 2500 EUR, mainly because of the portability. Unfortunately, the keyboard kills it for me. Maybe they improve that before the launch?

jdechko
Sep 10, 2009, 10:57 AM
imagine what Apple's Air division will be able to do with a unibody design/non-removable battery etc

You do realize that the Air was the first Apple portable to have both of those things, right? :)

Jobsian
Sep 10, 2009, 11:18 AM
You do realize that the Air was the first Apple portable to have both of those things, right? :)
Yup dude, I meant that if Sony could manage 700g with the inefficiencies of a removable battery and clip-stands, imagine what Apple can achieve with their superior design efficiency and today's tech! :)

Jobsian
Sep 10, 2009, 11:24 AM
Two days ago, I had a chance to try this thing at IFA in Berlin. I loved the form factor and the robust feel. There is some flex, but it does not feel flimsy at all.
The display lighting was adequate for an ultraportable, and the subjective speed was ok too.

Unlike a certain Apple computer, it comes with a reasonable set of ports (Ethernet, 2xUSB, VGA, no asinine proprietary video output).

The attendants told me that it would run 8h with the current 4 cell battery, and that other battery options would currently be considered. They refused to be specific wrt the processor, but we can expect some kind of CULV, above the current Atoms, and below the current Air. (The did not build a fan into the design.)

I was unhappy with the keyboard, though. Like in the Vaio P, it is put into a depression with a relatively sharp border below the bottom row. When you press the space bar, your thumb will come to rest on that border. Generally, the chiclet keys are widely spaced but do not have the same satisfying feel as in Apple's current devices.

700g is absolutely amazing (this is a little more than half the weight of an Air). The form factor is perfect for my needs, and the speed is sufficient. I would consider paying up to 2500 EUR, mainly because of the portability. Unfortunately, the keyboard kills it for me. Maybe they improve that before the launch?
Thanks for the hands-on input dude, much appreciated.

One of my only gripes with an ultraportable like this would be excessive heating/CPU throttling and subsequent stuttering when playing videos esp YouTube. If it meets this minimum criterion for me, I'll be happy.

Other than that, this does look amazing so far!

gotzero
Sep 11, 2009, 12:58 PM
If they stretched the the keys all the way to the sides of the computer I would consider, but that keyboard looks netbook-sized. Oh well...

bloodycape
Sep 11, 2009, 03:36 PM
If they stretched the the keys all the way to the sides of the computer I would consider, but that keyboard looks netbook-sized. Oh well...

That what I thought when I looked at the Vaio TT, but I find the keyboard to be much more comfortable than my iBook and dare I say a bit more comfortable than my MBP in some aspects.

Jobsian
Sep 12, 2009, 07:32 AM
5 minute hands-on with the Vaio X:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00JjvOymvvo

I can't imagine what the Adamo XPS is like!

fibrizo
Sep 13, 2009, 01:22 PM
I am excited to see this machine I can't afford lol. I do hope that apple takes a few keys from sony's design. I couldn't get myself to buy an air over a mbp, mainly for ports. (I use 2 USB ports way too much. and I do like the drive.

A better machine for the MBA to aspire to is the sony G (mentioned earlier) Take a look. It's certainly not as pretty but look what it packs.

http://www.dynamism.com/#Product=sonyvaio_g

1.89 lbs for a 12.1 inch (not 13 I know) with 6 hour battery life w/ removable battery

2.17 lbs for one with an integrated DVD drive w/ 6 hour removable battery

2.46 lbs for one with inegrated DVD and 12.5 hour battery removable.

What really gets me is...
1. PCMCIA type II slot
2. Rj45Lan port
3. V92 modem (Who the hell uses this still if they can afford a high end laptop?)
4. VGA port
5. Mic jack
6. Headphone jack.
7. SD card slot
8. Memory Stick slot ( again WTF lol)
9. ilink (firewire port)
10. 2x USB ports

Granted it's a little thicker at 1 inch instead of 0.76inches.

Maybe apple should take up carbon fiber? Stuff is supposedly one of the strongest materials we know of, ie they stopped using aluminum in jets and are now using carbon fiber. I can just imagine a dream MBA with a 12 hour battery, 2 usb ports, firewire, an SD card slot, Mini display port (with audio) or hdmi, 1 headphone jack, SD card slot, FJ45 Lan port, and a built in DVD drive... lol all still weighing 3 lbs.

Now that I think of it... just make the 13 inch macbook pro weigh 3 lbs lol. I love the aluminum and all, but if they can get carbon fiber and lose 1.5 lbs, I'd be all over it

bloodycape
Sep 13, 2009, 03:11 PM
That is what I have been saying. Just look at the Sony Vaio Z it weighs 3.3lbs vs the MBA 3.1lbs and it has the same specs(with stuff MBA does not off) as the MBA, while being thicker and having a removable battery. I think Apple should use a little CF on their machines.

Also, the Sony Vaio G, like TT, both use the lower power intel SU line of C2D which uses about 10w vs SL line in the MBA, which uses 17w, and the fact it has the lower range gpu the intel 4500hd, which fine for most things not gaming, or 3D(i.e. performance is worse than the 9400m, but it does use less power). Maybe Apple can do a switchable gpu thing, where you can use the intel 4500HD to use save battery life and 9400, when more power is needed. Also the Vaio G doesn't have web cam, which helps a bit to lower its weight.

BTW: check out the 12in Toshiba R600 weights just a bit more than the Sony Vaio G, but has a web cam is a bit thinner, and pretty sure its not made out of carbon fiber.

Gruber
Sep 14, 2009, 05:15 AM
That what I thought when I looked at the Vaio TT, but I find the keyboard to be much more comfortable than my iBook and dare I say a bit more comfortable than my MBP in some aspects.

The TT keyboard is excellent. However, the keyboard on the X does not have the same feel as on the TT; the keys are much more mushy.

Do not worry about the size, however. The keys are widely spaced, and normal size hands should feel comfortable.

Jobsian
Oct 7, 2009, 12:04 PM
Latest news:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/10/05/sony.vaio.x.may.be.ready.in.november/



Sony's VAIO X ultralight could be ready next month and have a second notebook follow along if a rumor tonight proves true. The 1.5-pound notebook would ship in November, according to CrunchGear, and would be a direct replacement for the VAIO TT. A strategy of the sort implies it will use a low-voltage Core 2 Duo, which would support Sony's claims of extra-long battery life.

The system is already known to have built-in 3G, an 11.1-inch display and Windows 7.

Sony's other system is said to be its first touchscreen notebook but, unlike Dell's Latitude XT or HP's Pavilion tx series, won't be a tablet of any form. Hard specifications aren't available other than that Windows 7 is certain. At least some Windows 7 systems are known to be using multi-touch and may include Sony's model.

http://www.i4u.com/article27453.html

Sony is billing their X-Series as the "world's lightest notebook". At just 1.6 lbs, his new Vaio definitely qualifies as petite. All Sony has told us about this new notebook is that it is tiny, and that it packs an 11.1" screen. Thanks to leaks from Boy Genius, we may now know a little more of the story.

Apparently the X-Series will come with normal, and "super-extended" battery options. The normal battery will be good for 3.5 hours of life, while the extended battery is said to last up to 14 hours. The X-Series touchpad is said to feature multitouch functionality, which is also something worth getting excited about.

We don't know what processor this new carbon fiber Vaio will pack, but we do know that it will ship with an SSD of some size. The launch OS will be (what else?) Windows 7, and the price at launch is set at $1,499. Ouch.

Jobsian
Oct 7, 2009, 12:08 PM
I should have probably said, "news"

Mactagonist
Oct 7, 2009, 12:21 PM
One thing that is becoming obvious as we see these Dell and HP 'Apple type' laptops come out is just how mythical the 'Apple Tax' always was.

Both companies are trying to equal the design and build quality of the MBA and MBP and failing to match Apple in specs or price.

The Adamo is significantly slower and more expensive then the Air it apes, the Envy 13 is more expensive then the MBP 13" and has an awful trackpad and terrible battery life.

It is nice to see other companies starting to realize that design and build quality are important, but Apple clearly has a huge head start in this area. I think it will be sometime before we see computers as well built and attractive as Apple's with equal specs at competitive prices from the likes of Dell and HP.

bloodycape
Oct 7, 2009, 02:48 PM
the Envy 13 is more expensive then the MBP 13" and has an awful trackpad and terrible battery life.
The standard battery life may not be the best but with the battery slice you can get 10-12 hours depending on usage. So it does have that going for it. I am also hearing the trackpad issue could be fixed with a driver update. But, yeah its cost too much, and the Beats audio system only like work through headphones so you won't notice the better sq through the built in speakers.

Eidorian
Oct 7, 2009, 03:16 PM
The Adamo is significantly slower and more expensive then the Air it apes, the Envy 13 is more expensive then the MBP 13" and has an awful trackpad and terrible battery life. We have prices now? Links please.

Mactagonist
Oct 7, 2009, 04:02 PM
The standard battery life may not be the best but with the battery slice you can get 10-12 hours depending on usage. So it does have that going for it. I am also hearing the trackpad issue could be fixed with a driver update. But, yeah its cost too much, and the Beats audio system only like work through headphones so you won't notice the better sq through the built in speakers.

Going by the difference between the real, tested battery life and the claimed life I am not expecting much from the extra battery slice. Even if it doubles the standard life that still falls well short of the real world run time of the MBP 13".

If the trackpad issues are so simple that a quick software update could fix them, why did it ship in its current state? I am a bit skeptical that it is an easy fix.

Mactagonist
Oct 7, 2009, 04:05 PM
We have prices now? Links please.

Sure.

Adamo: http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/adamo/topics/en/us/adamo-onyx?c=us&l=en&cs=19

If you are referring to the price of the Adamo XPS I am sure there will be more information on it soon. But I would not expect it to be cheaper then the current Adamo line.

Eidorian
Oct 7, 2009, 04:07 PM
Sure.

Adamo: http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/adamo/topics/en/us/adamo-onyx?c=us&l=en&cs=19

If you are referring to the price of the Adamo XPS I am sure there will be more information on it soon. But I would not expect it to be cheaper then the current Adamo line.I thought it was the price(s) on the HP Envy 13". Oops...

The current Adamo is rather uninspiring though.

Mactagonist
Oct 7, 2009, 04:17 PM
I thought it was the price(s) on the HP Envy 13". Oops...

The current Adamo is rather uninspiring though.

Envy 13 is going to be $1700-1800 with the small battery according to the Engadget and Gizmodo reviews.

bloodycape
Oct 7, 2009, 04:49 PM
Going by the difference between the real, tested battery life and the claimed life I am not expecting much from the extra battery slice. Even if it doubles the standard life that still falls well short of the real world run time of the MBP 13".
LaptopMag got close to 10 and half hours out of the slice. http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/hp-envy-13.aspx?page=3
http://www.laptopmag.com/review/compgraph.php?header=LAPTOP%20Battery%20Test&unit=Hours%20(More%20is%20Better)&bar[0][l]=HP%20Envy%2013&bar[0][0][c]=orange&bar[0][0][v]=4.3&bar[0][0][d]=04:19&bar[1][l]=HP%20Envy%2013&bar[1][0][c]=orange&bar[1][n]=Slice%20Battery&bar[1][0][v]=10.4&bar[1][0][d]=10:23&bar[2][l]=Category%20Average%20(as%20of%2009/2009)&bar[2][0][c]=gray&bar[2][0][v]=5.0&bar[2][0][d]=04:57

Mactagonist
Oct 7, 2009, 05:05 PM
Laptop mags results are substantially different from other reviews battery life numbers.

Regardless, I think a battery 'slice' that adds an extra 1.5 pounds and $100+ dollars is the last thing an already overpriced laptop that is already too big to really be called an ultra portable needs.

bloodycape
Oct 7, 2009, 05:19 PM
I am a bit in different on the weight specially for battery life it gives, however I think I read a review somewhere that said the battery slice is included when you buy the machine, but that could have been misinformed. I would have to think the ATI 4330 gpu has some effect on battery life(30min to an hour depending o usage?) as it is a bit more power hungry vs the nvidia 9400(as the 4330 is a dedicated gpu).

bloodycape
Oct 7, 2009, 06:03 PM
I like many of Sony products, but this is effing ridiculous. I thought the P was bad at 800, but this is even worse. $1300 for an Atom device, I can't even see this logically even selling, unless to the rich super vain people. At least at that price it does come with integrated 3G and two batteries, so it could be worse. http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/07/sony-vaio-x-announced-starts-at-1-299-vaio-cw-and-vaio-l-al/

megasad
Oct 16, 2009, 12:11 PM
Not really caring about the machine itself, I see it has a 256GB SSD:

http://www.sony.co.uk/product/vn-x-series/vpcx11z1e-x

I've tried out to find if it uses a 5mm or 8mm thick 1.8" drive but can't find any info anywhere. Does anyone know? Obviously I'm interested because I want 256GB in an Air :P

elppa
Oct 16, 2009, 06:11 PM
£1900 (http://www.t3.com/reviews/computers/laptops/sony-vaio-x-series-review). That's insane.

Someone would buy this over a Vaio Z because...

Scottsdale
Oct 16, 2009, 10:06 PM
The MacBook Air for $1799 with 2.13 C2D and 128 GB SSD is really a bargain compared to the other ultraportables on the market. I actually think the MBA is the best overall ultraportable when everything is factored in. I don't understand people wanting to lose so much power yet pay so much for a 1.2 GHz or 1.4 GHz CULV CPU. And the Atom 2 GHz isn't really as bad as the CULV but it's still no SL9600.

I am really looking forward to Arrandale. Upwards of 2.8/2.93 GHz (2-2.13 standard) with the turbo feature when it needs it. That's the successor to the Low Voltage SL9600. That will be great in the MacBook Air. As long as it's paired with an ATI GPU.

Gruber
Oct 17, 2009, 04:03 AM
...

AAPLaday
Oct 17, 2009, 04:49 AM
£1900 (http://www.t3.com/reviews/computers/laptops/sony-vaio-x-series-review). That's insane.

Someone would buy this over a Vaio Z because...

Jeez the price on that thing!!! Puts Apple to shame there haha :p

aleksandra.
Oct 17, 2009, 09:48 AM
They only say "2 GHz Intel® Processor", but the FSB is 533MHz, which clearly points towards Atom (Z550 to be precise - one core, 45nm, 0.5 MB cache), even if they avoid the name at all cost.

It's just a netbook.

bloodycape
Oct 17, 2009, 04:02 PM
£1900 (http://www.t3.com/reviews/computers/laptops/sony-vaio-x-series-review). That's insane.

Someone would buy this over a Vaio TT because...
fixed.

But, yes the price is very insane. At least the Vaio P was price a bit more fairly, and at least you could fit that in your jacket pocket or large pants pocket. The Z is 13in and someone may want something a bit smaller for traveling, which brings up the 11in TT(in some locations it's discontinued, but you can still get one new), which at least uses CULV Core 2 Duo(was around before netbooks even came out). I find the TT suits my needs fine despite the lack of OSX. Really, wish I could dual boot OSX on this, but what can you do.

If Apple had another 12in Powerbook device(but lighter and a bit more compact), I would so be all over it.

elppa
Oct 17, 2009, 04:05 PM
fixed.

The Z is 13in and someone may one something a bit smaller for traveling, which brings up the 11in TT(in some locations it's discontinued, but you can still get one new), which at least uses CULV Core 2 Duo(before this whole range of netbooks had it and used it since the old TX/TZ days). Would I like a LV cpu like the MBA has? Sure, but for some people, like me, the TT suits our needs better despite the lack of OSX. Really, wish I could dual boot OSX.

If Apple had another 12in Powerbook device(but lighter and a bit more compact), I would so be all over it.

I didn't put down the TT because I thought it was discontinued. But in terms of performance it is a better machine.

bloodycape
Oct 17, 2009, 04:30 PM
I didn't put down the TT because I thought it was discontinued. But in terms of performance it is a better machine.

In the US(and I think Canada is discontinued), but in Asia, and even parts of the EU it just got updated to Win7 when it comes out and 8gb and 1.6ghz in parts of the EU that didn't already get that update.

gnr319
Oct 17, 2009, 06:59 PM
I used to love Sony Vaio laptops.

Design-wise, I have always considered Sony superior to Apple. Their machines are unfailingly sexy. I remember being astounded by the Vaio 505 laptop when it originally came out in (1999)? Even by today's standards it is better looking than 75% of what's out there.

Also, I always felt like Sony and Toshiba and other Japanese computer companies predated the whole netbook craze with the Vaio C1MW and the awesome Toshiba Libretto series. Perhaps their vision at that time outpaced the technology and so these ultrasmall machines never caught on..

RichardF
Oct 19, 2009, 09:25 AM
I am looking at the Sony Vaio X as well.

But, I wouldn't make a decision NOT to buy it based on its price. I would because of the software crapola they put on their computers.

I also had a favorable opinion Vaio laptops...until I bought one (a few years back).

Apple understood it: no crapola and no stickers...

chameleon81
Oct 20, 2009, 10:50 AM
14 hours of battery life. that's cool.