Loopt to Become First Third-Party iPhone Service to Run in Background

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/04/loopt-to-become-first-third-party-iphone-service-to-run-in-background/)

Silicon Alley Insider reports (http://www.businessinsider.com/loopt-to-run-in-the-background-on-iphone-2009-6) that the location-based social networking service Loopt (http://www.loopt.com/) has struck a deal with AT&T that will permit the service to monitor a user's location (with their permission) in the background.Via a deal with AT&T, and with your permission, Loopt will be able to access your location all the time you have a network connection, even when you're not actively using the iPhone app. (The app isn't running in the background; it's working server-to-server.) Loopt cofounder and CEO Sam Altman tells us that it's been users' most requested feature.Loopt, which was highlighted (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/06/09/iphone-apps-announced-super-monkey-ball-loopt-pangea-games/) at the App Store launch at Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference in June 2008, allows users to track the locations of their friends and offers several related social networking features. But until now, Loopt and other similar services such as Google Latitude (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/02/04/google-latitude-location-tracking-coming-to-iphone/) have required iPhone users to be actively using their applications to locate other users. Despite the fact that Loopt currently only updates a user's location every 1-2 hours, implementation of an "always-on" location tracking service will lead to more useful tracking of friends and development of additional location-based features as the technology continues to develop.Always-on, real-time location information is critical for the future of location services, Altman tells us. You'll be able to get alerts when you're near a person or place you're interested in, for example. You can build a "life graph" of all the places you've gone, he adds. (Maybe a running map?) And -- Altman doesn't say this, but we're making the next logical step, here -- this opens the door to easier location-based advertising, promotions, etc.Loopt is offering a free 14-day trial (https://loopt.com/loopt/background/Default.aspx) of the background service for 5,000 users. Always-on service beyond the initial trial period will cost $3.99 per month and will appear on users AT&T bills.

Article Link: Loopt to Become First Third-Party iPhone Service to Run in Background (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/04/loopt-to-become-first-third-party-iphone-service-to-run-in-background/)

[SirOmega]

But its not running in the background.

Its taking cell positional data from AT&T's systems and sending it over to loopt. The iPhone app is not running in the background on the phone.

[tundotcom]

Stalking? There's an app for that.

[MadDog31]

The Loopt users go :-O and the iPhone battery goes :-|

Interesting idea, and perhaps a path for other apps...but $3.99 to have someone know where I'm at? Personally, I'll pass. Interesting news nonetheless though, I think.

[noTe on iPhone]

will cost $3.99 per month and will appear on users AT&T bills.

Of course it will.

How can we get added MMS messaging for no cost, but to make our phone do something it normally can for free... just more often, cost us money?

[CylonGlitch]

Wait, if I read this correctly, it is going to cost you $4 per month to have more ads pushed at you?

What a deal!

[shady825]

Bring on the stalkers! haha

Stalking? There's an app for that.

posted before I saw yours! :)

[elhungarian]

Who in their right mind would pay an extra monthly fee? Get out of here.
Lame.

[Rot'nApple]

Stalking? There's an app for that.

Stalking?... Even when you give your permission? Huh?! :eek:

[ShiftyPig]

Who in their right mind would pay an extra monthly fee? Get out of here.
Lame.

Seconded.
Paying for the ability to broadcast your location 24/7? Ridiculous. Get the exclusive contract away from AT&T ASAP.

[Lazlow]

Pay $3.99 a month for something my phone should already be able to do... hmm, sounds like a certain company I know... oh yeah, AT&T :rolleyes:

[duncanapple]

yeah, Im sorry but I don't get it... I don't care where my friends are 24/7 and I certainly don't want people to track my where abouts 24/7. Its like facebook stalking taken to the next level. And then to charge $4 a month for this privilege along with what I assume are also very targeted ads... I wouldn't consider myself paranoid but who signs up for this junk?

[shady825]

Stalking?... Even when you give your permission? Huh?! :eek:

We were kidding about the stalking..
Of course it's obviously only enabled with your permission.. :rolleyes:

[str1f3]

Pay $3.99 a month for something my phone should already be able to do... hmm, sounds like a certain company I know... oh yeah, AT&T :rolleyes:

Agreed. This is ridiculous. The OS should be handling background tasks, not a carrier.

[jessica.]

Great! Too bad I have no use for the app.

[Warbrain]

But its not running in the background.

Its taking cell positional data from AT&T's systems and sending it over to loopt. The iPhone app is not running in the background on the phone.

This.

And awesome, people can stalk me even more than they could before. And I have to PAY for that.

[spf250]

loopt will eventually be duplicated cheaply by someone else...i'd rather pay a flat rate fee for the app than 3.99 for a service

[longofest]

The OS should be handling background tasks, not a carrier.

I actually think this is a somewhat innovative way to get around the restriction on background applications, which I am growing to think is a good restriction.

Maybe background apps could be more a feasibility on a 3gs, but on my 3G, the memory gets clogged after using just Safari and Mail (which stay open after closing). Imagine if 3rd party applications were allowed to stay open as well! I'd have to use the now banned free memory applications (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/08/27/apple-forces-removal-of-free-memory-functionality-from-iphone-applications/) even more frequently or restart my phone.

Granted, I'm not signing up for this service. A little too stalker-ish for me.

[Shasterball]

LOL. $4/month. Idiots. Let's make everyone's bill $150-200/month...

[ViViDboarder]

This is dumb. I just want someone to create a small background daemon that updates your position to Google latitude or something like that.

Pay $4/mo to get pop ups when you're near the 1 other friend you may have that's an idiot and decides to pay for this useless app? No thanks.

[jointsmoking]

I was hoping that Pandora or one of the other "radio' apps would have been the first to get always on status.

[admanimal]

loopt will eventually be duplicated cheaply by someone else...i'd rather pay a flat rate fee for the app than 3.99 for a service

Except it is not possible to duplicate this service without a deal with AT&T, unless Apple eventually allows real background tasks to run on the phone.

I was hoping that Pandora or one of the other "radio' apps would have been the first to get always on status.

Loopt does not have "always on" status either. Loopt's servers will maintain a connection with AT&T's servers, which are providing the location data. The app does not run in the background.

[ckd]

"Have you ever paid 4 bucks a month to help your friends stalk you? You will. And the company that'll bring it to you is AT&T."

Man, I miss those "you will" ads; they were such great snark targets.

[riverfreak]

LOL. $4/month. Idiots. Let's make everyone's bill $150-200/month...

Indeed. Another $4/month added on to AT&Ts already unintelligible bill. Great.

[ecume]

I think Loopt's making partnerships with the devil won't benefit the fact that their service appeals to a very small segment of population. I think newer location startups like Centrl, which focusses on more immediately useful services like realtime chat, are going to dominate this space very soon.

[manu chao]

Agreed. This is ridiculous. The OS should be handling background tasks, not a carrier.
AT&T already knows my position, why should I duplicate that functionality with an app running on my iPhone (consuming energy, CPU cycles, RAM and bandwidth), if I can get that information for free (in terms of iPhone power/CPU/RAM/bandwidth consumption).

[eh270]

I've been using PlayNice (http://nat.org/blog/2009/08/playnice-google-apple/) with MobileMe + Google Latitude for over a month now, it works great...

ETA: Nevermind; seems like Apple disabled the devices I had this running on. I had to remove them from MobileMe and reboot my iPhone to get them to show up again. Bummer.

[jointsmoking]

yeah, Im sorry but I don't get it... I don't care where my friends are 24/7 and I certainly don't want people to track my where abouts 24/7. Its like facebook stalking taken to the next level. And then to charge $4 a month for this privilege along with what I assume are also very targeted ads... I wouldn't consider myself paranoid but who signs up for this junk?


It would be invaluable to a dispatcher.

[Michael73]

Social networking gone awry at the enrichment of AT&T!

[ChrisA]

Agreed. This is ridiculous. The OS should be handling background tasks, not a carrier.

Why? A centralized server can run on AC power. Your phone runs on battery power. Which power source would you prefer, someone elses server or your battery?

Most background tasks don't need to run on the phone. The only tasks that really need to be on the phone are those that require non-lagging user interfaces.

An App that runs with no user interface does not need to run on the phone. Only when you switch the app to foreground doe it need to run locally

[pacohaas]

I guess now we know the true reason that Latitude was denied.

[iSee]

Wow.

I've got to hand it to AT&T and Apple:

It's the worst possible solution to this problem. Nice one, guys.

Why? A centralized server can run on AC power. Your phone runs on battery power. Which power source would you prefer, someone elses server or your battery?

Most background tasks don't need to run on the phone. The only tasks that really need to be on the phone are those that require non-lagging user interfaces.

An App that runs with no user interface does not need to run on the phone. Only when you switch the app to foreground doe it need to run locally

You aren't concerned that AT&T is selling your up-to-the-minute location for profit? This stinks in a lot of ways. It's not totally overboard because they only sell it with your permission. But it is still worrying... a step in the wrong direction.

[Darth.Titan]

Wow.

I've got to hand it to AT&T and Apple:

It's the worst possible solution to this problem. Nice one, guys.

Sorry but I fail to notice anywhere in the article stating that Apple has anything at all to do with this other than allowing the Loopt app to be sold in their App Store....

[Kan-O-Z]

While this obviously isn't everyone cup of tea, it will appeal to more than you may think. Think of these scenarios:

1. Someone creates a location based dating app. Basically you are matched based on your profile AND position. Think about walking into a bar and you're phone (and the other persons phone) informs both of you that you are both a good match for each other. That would definitely make it easier to meet people. This can go beyond dating...it could just be interest groups...such as people who love their Apple products ;)

2. High school/college kids and others will like this because many would like to know if their friends are in the area. Say you go to a mall. Your phone informs you that your friend is around. Many will think that is cool. Without it you may have missed your friend.

3. Advertising may suck for some but for other if you can turn it on of off it could be great. You could be informed of great deals while you're driving by a store that you may otherwise may not have known about?

All this probably working via push is nice for the battery too.

Kan-O-Z

[kironin]

No thank you.

[ViViDboarder]

Sorry but I fail to notice anywhere in the article stating that Apple has anything at all to do with this other than allowing the Loopt app to be sold in their App Store....

Apple is the one forcing Loopt to do this through AT&T rather than a background daemon to get the desired functionality that customers want.

[telecomm]

But its not running in the background.

Its taking cell positional data from AT&T's systems and sending it over to loopt. The iPhone app is not running in the background on the phone.

Yeah, the main body text of this Macrumors entry explicitly denies the claim found in the title. :confused:

[georgetang]

AT&T stop freaking wasting your time and effort on trying to squeeze us for more money $$$$ -- YOU FXCKING GREEDY!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad:

PUT YOUR TIME ON FIXING YOUR USELESS NETWORK... :mad::mad::mad:

AND STOP RUNNING TV COMMERCIAL ABOUT MORE BAR in MORE PLACES...

THE MORE BAR I'LL GIVE YOU IS IN YOUR STINKY GREEDY AXX.... :mad:

OH! BTW, I HAVE TRIED and SUCCESSFULLY USE TETHERING using your SIM CARD on my 4 Years Old NOKIA phone, which apparently has TETHERING standard from factory... :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[matttnyc]

According to the loopt site FAQ:

Q: How accurate are the location updates and how often will they occur?
A: Location accuracy can vary from a few hundred yards to a few miles depending upon the distance to the nearest cell tower. Updates usually occur once every 1 to 2 hours.

So basically you are paying $4 a month for something that will only update every one or two hours and will mostly be inaccurate since it is only using cell tower location. A few hundred yards is a lot to be off itself, by a few miles is ridiculous.

Wouldn't this be much more accurate as a background process that could make use of wi-fi and gps as well as the cell towers?

[abrooks]

The app is not running in the background, Loopt are talking to AT&T to gain a location.

Edit: Even funnier is that the Mac Rumors article quotes the bit where the app developer says that it doesn't run in the background.

[admanimal]

Apple is the one forcing Loopt to do this through AT&T rather than a background daemon to get the desired functionality that customers want.

You do realize that your battery would last about 2 hours at best with Loopt running in the background, constantly using your GPS to update your location and send it to their servers, right? And that's assuming Loopt is the only app you are running in the background.

[neiltc13]

The way this article is written anyone would guess that AT&T is the only provider offering iPhone.

[OnlyShawn]

jailbreak+navizon.

10 minute updates, seemingly negligible battery drain, free for limited 'crippleware' (that mostly only does not include path-logging), plus a way to get the upgraded version for free, simply by having the app and discovering APs & cell towers.

win, if this is your thing.

[QCassidy352]

I actually think this is a somewhat innovative way to get around the restriction on background applications, which I am growing to think is a good restriction.

Maybe background apps could be more a feasibility on a 3gs, but on my 3G, the memory gets clogged after using just Safari and Mail (which stay open after closing). Imagine if 3rd party applications were allowed to stay open as well! I'd have to use the now banned free memory applications (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/08/27/apple-forces-removal-of-free-memory-functionality-from-iphone-applications/) even more frequently or restart my phone.

I came from a 2G (so same internal specs as your 3G), and on that, yes, background processes would be a nightmare. The 3GS is an entirely different beast. The jump from 128 to 256 MB as much more than a doubling in terms of how much RAM is available after the OS takes what it needs.

The other point is, why shouldn't a user who is willing to put up with sluggishness to keep pandora in the background, why shouldn't you be allowed to? (to answer my own question though: because apple would rather see people complain about no background processes than see articles about how iphones run like cold molasses. Even if people have the option not to do do backgrounding, they'd still complain if they had the ability and it didn't work right.)

[str1f3]

I actually think this is a somewhat innovative way to get around the restriction on background applications, which I am growing to think is a good restriction.

Maybe background apps could be more a feasibility on a 3gs, but on my 3G, the memory gets clogged after using just Safari and Mail (which stay open after closing). Imagine if 3rd party applications were allowed to stay open as well! I'd have to use the now banned free memory applications (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/08/27/apple-forces-removal-of-free-memory-functionality-from-iphone-applications/) even more frequently or restart my phone.

Granted, I'm not signing up for this service. A little too stalker-ish for me.

I disagree to a certain extent. It makes me feel uncomfortable that app makers go through a carrier to make a deal for a pseudo background app especially with the all nonsense with the FCC.

I think for now it is a necessary decision to not allow background tasks for the sake of earlier generations of iPhones. At the same point we all know that, while Apple has made the iPhone compatible with every upgrade, this will come to an end at some point. You're right in saying that all models of iPhones and touches with 128MB RAM can't handle background tasks ( I know the pain too ;)) and multitasking will only be allowed on this year's models going forward.

[bytethese]

Screw stalkers, it'll be WAY easier for law enforcement to find you if you signed up for this and were being investigated. Wow...

[Small White Car]

Screw stalkers, it'll be WAY easier for law enforcement to find you if you signed up for this and were being investigated. Wow...

It's 'way easy' for them now. This changes nothing. It's a classic "don't pay for it if you don't want it" situation.

All the over-the-top negative posts are confusing to me. Just don't buy it.

All the "they should have done this" posts are similarly lame. You want an app that uses GPS constantly? Trust me, no one would use that either.

[agbot]

According to the loopt site FAQ:

Q: How accurate are the location updates and how often will they occur?
A: Location accuracy can vary from a few hundred yards to a few miles depending upon the distance to the nearest cell tower. Updates usually occur once every 1 to 2 hours.

So basically you are paying $4 a month for something that will only update every one or two hours and will mostly be inaccurate since it is only using cell tower location. A few hundred yards is a lot to be off itself, by a few miles is ridiculous.

Wouldn't this be much more accurate as a background process that could make use of wi-fi and gps as well as the cell towers?

Ah c'mon. That sounds totally useful! :)


Loopt User 1: "Yo, hey Loopt User 2, I noticed you may have been within several miles of me as long as two hours ago. Did you want to have done lunch?"
Loopt User 2: "Yeah, that sounds like it would have been cool"
Loopt User 1: "Ok, let's have done that!"


/Waits for someone to break the new protocol AT&T opened for Loopt servers to query locations of cell phones.

[ViViDboarder]

You do realize that your battery would last about 2 hours at best with Loopt running in the background, constantly using your GPS to update your location and send it to their servers, right? And that's assuming Loopt is the only app you are running in the background.

*Sigh* Who needs it updated every second? As it is, they say AT&T is updating it every hour.

It's simple as a .sh script that goes

#! /bin/bash

while true; do
sleep 7200
updatePosition
done


*Replace updatePosition with whatever command they make for sending the coordinates to Loopt or Google Latitude or whatever.

And it won't use any CPU while it's sleeping... So it's very minimal. Really easy to do as well, just Apple doesn't allow it.

[peterlobl]

might not be so bad if you're a parent and want to monitor your kids...
until implants arrive, this might provide a tiny trail to locate someone if he/she vanishes...

[kdarling]

1) History. The ability to buy location information from carriers has been around for many years. At least as long as E911 locating. Before built-in GPS, it was seen as the only way to have helpful locating apps.

2) Privacy. Since your location isn't given unless you allowed it to be, there's no privacy invasion... in theory. In practice, I'd be wary of accepting a phone from an ex-husband without first checking with the carrier.

3) Useful. It makes a great method for general locating without using extra battery. The downside in this case is the almost useless one or two hour granularity in data.

[bytethese]

It's 'way easy' for them now. This changes nothing. It's a classic "don't pay for it if you don't want it" situation.

Actually, this changes everything. Before you would only have cell tower triangulated data, I assume now AT&T would have GPS data they are sending to Loopt, which would aide in better pinpointing your location without having to try to install something on the device itself or on your vehicle.

Also gets in a certain legal "sticky" if you will depending on jurisdiction with regards to subpoena vs warrant when you have more precise location information.

[VenusianSky]

The way this thread is going, it sounds like every iPhone owner is going to be forced to download this app and pay a monthly fee. How about this, don't buy the app. They will get the idea.

[madog]

Stalking?... Even when you give your permission? Huh?! :eek:

I give people "permission" to know where I live, but that won't stop some crazy person from stalking me. My gross, fat, hairy body does that.

[kdarling]

Actually, this changes everything. Before you would only have cell tower triangulated data, I assume now AT&T would have GPS data they are sending to Loopt, ...

You'd be assuming incorrectly. ATT doesn't obtain GPS data from phones. They just use their own towers to triangulate you, without your phone's help.

U.S. CDMA carriers can have access to each phone's GPS info because their E911 systems were built around using GPS. But the GPS info is only available if it's a 911 call, or if you've enabled locating services and apps.

[TMar]

You aren't concerned that AT&T is selling your up-to-the-minute location for profit? This stinks in a lot of ways. It's not totally overboard because they only sell it with your permission. But it is still worrying... a step in the wrong direction.

I guess ignorance is bliss. AT&T already knows you position 100% of the time, and don't think that they don't sell generalized demographic information to market research companies.

[iSee]

Sorry but I fail to notice anywhere in the article stating that Apple has anything at all to do with this other than allowing the Loopt app to be sold in their App Store....

The reason Loopt has to buy your location from AT&T is because Apple does not allow Loopt to get the info directly from your device. I like that Apple does not allow third-party background processes. But if they are going to do that they need to provide services that third-parties can tap into. They've done that with notifications (incoming data), but they don't have anything for outgoing data. Actually, current location is just one of the things the iPhone knows. They should expose as much as possible about the state of the device and let apps subscribe to it (with user permission of course). I don't know how all the data could be used, but that's the point: Some third party is going to come up with a brilliant use that I (and more to the point, Apple) never would have thought of or never would have thought anyone would want. Lay it all out there:
* current location, speed, compass
* current app
* current orientation
* current song playing
* battery
* all the settings (wi-fi, brightness, wallpaper, etc.)
* apps installed
* custom dictionary terms
* phone logs, voice mailbox status
I don't know... everything and anything. Let the developers figure out if there's any use to it. Make sure users understand what data they are sharing and with whom and it's all good.

[b1wils1]

i believe this my friends...is pointless.

[iSee]

I guess ignorance is bliss. AT&T already knows you position 100% of the time, and don't think that they don't sell generalized demographic information to market research companies.

Sure, but now they are selling it to a third party.
And there is a big step between demographic info and your current location.

I realize this isn't a totally new evil from AT&T. It's just them getting another step eviler.

[pcorajr]

How stupid, that's all i have to say.

[madog]

I realize this isn't a totally new evil from AT&T. It's just them getting another step eviler.

One step closer and they'll be the next Super Devil.

[ob81]

Stalking? There's an app for that.


Hahah. Wow. So, at&t made a deal to let someone know my location. Meaning that they are keeping track... Wow.

[Cleverboy]

But its not running in the background.
Its taking cell positional data from AT&T's systems and sending it over to loopt. The iPhone app is not running in the background on the phone.The app is not running in the background, Loopt are talking to AT&T to gain a location.

Edit: Even funnier is that the Mac Rumors article quotes the bit where the app developer says that it doesn't run in the background. Mm, hm. I'm trying to stretch here, but I'm thinking the ONLY thing that makes this "run in the background" is the fact that it IS polling information specific to your phone (your triangulation data) and reporting it back to the service. Because it may bring AT&T more revenue, they've been happy to step forward and offer this feature for a monthly fee.

The entire point of Apple's new notification system, is that you can run a "background task" on a server, and update the phone by sending message to it. --But, the whole idea of a "background task" isn't about other machines running processes for your computer... its about YOUR computer running processes that you can't immediately see (in the background).

What Silicon Valley Insider MEANT to report... is that Loopt will allow iPhone users to automate "remote updates". With "remote updates" (instead of "running in the background"), AT&T's servers are able to remotely pull information from user's phones, and update Loopt on a regular basis (every couple of hours).

I was trying to peer through the curtains... but someone is SELLING something here regarding this story. It's not MacRumors... so its either The The Business Insider, Loopt, or AT&T. I think its TBI selling the story though. Its a way to "segue" into the topic of "background tasks". I'm surprised though. I've noticed the Loopt service available for some time now inside of my AT&T account page. I'm curiously left wondering if this is "new news" or if TBI just twisted old news into new news by using the "background" buzz word.

I think that's what happened.

~ CB

[Wingsy]

Anyone know if this uses the iPhone's GPS or via cell-tower triangulation?

When they say "server-to-server" it implies to me that this is cell-tower triangulation ... which seldom produces accurate results.

(Edit): I withdraw the question, after I RTFA.)

[slcoss]

While this obviously isn't everyone cup of tea, it will appeal to more than you may think. Think of these scenarios:

1. Someone creates a location based dating app. Basically you are matched based on your profile AND position. Think about walking into a bar and you're phone (and the other persons phone) informs both of you that you are both a good match for each other. That would definitely make it easier to meet people. This can go beyond dating...it could just be interest groups...such as people who love their Apple products ;)

2. High school/college kids and others will like this because many would like to know if their friends are in the area. Say you go to a mall. Your phone informs you that your friend is around. Many will think that is cool. Without it you may have missed your friend.

3. Advertising may suck for some but for other if you can turn it on of off it could be great. You could be informed of great deals while you're driving by a store that you may otherwise may not have known about?

All this probably working via push is nice for the battery too.

Kan-O-Z

I kinda liked this idea too, being at a mall or arriving at a store or whatever and your iphone informing you if one of your friends was close, but then again I wouldn't pay for it...

[Cleverboy]

I kinda liked this idea too, being at a mall or arriving at a store or whatever and your iphone informing you if one of your friends was close, but then again I wouldn't pay for it... It's amazing this idea has gotten this far. There is a wall of privacy (whether amongst adults or even teenagers) where simply being "seen" somewhere can be more information than you want other people to have. To constantly broadcast your whereabouts, whether anyone saw you or not... seems more than a bit invasive, even if its casual and good intentioned.

I say this after setting up my wife's iPhone, and installing "Loopt" and happily informing her that we'd be able to now where each of us was... and getting a fairly disturbed look in response. After telling her that it was only when the app launched... seemed to help, but then I told her I'd added her to my Find My iPhone service too, so... back where we were.

Privacy is privacy, no matter how you slice it. IMing or Texting your GPS coordinates is a BETTER feature. Integrating LOOPT into an IM client, and allowing people to turn on or off GPS broadcasting makes even more sense (especially if it works remotely for updates). A completely SEPARATE app for this becomes confusing and potentially problematic.

~ CB

[rishey]

AIDST&T can suck my filthy lyps for charging for this. I hope they die a painful anti-trust death... AGAIN.

[ux4all]

Hahah. Wow. So, at&t made a deal to let someone know my location. Meaning that they are keeping track... Wow.

I read that too. Since you are opting into the service, I wonder if it is just a bit they have to flip to start the logging process. Having the logic to track in the code and having the code execute are 2 different things (as we all know).

This is a first-to-market app, so the price should not surprise anyone. It's simple economies of scale. iPhone brought enough $$$ so now AT&T will MMS. Loopt brings enough $$$ and AT&T will expand it (and produce a video with Seth the Blogger (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/04/atandt-offers-video-update-on-iphone-mms-and-cellular-network-issues/) too!).

[scottness]

Total waste of $4 a month. Loopt should be able to do this for free as a background app. Come on, Apple!!! :mad:

[Minimoose 360]

I almost crapped my pants when I read the title

and then was highly disappointed. Next!

[twoodcc]

nice. but of course they would charge for it. not worth it to me

[TMar]

Sure, but now they are selling it to a third party.
And there is a big step between demographic info and your current location.

I realize this isn't a totally new evil from AT&T. It's just them getting another step eviler.

They have been selling that information for years. While it just generalized information that they have been selling (Location, usage, plan and general consumer information). With loopt they are just allowing you to tap into, albeit through a third part, a service they already run for you. They are simply allowing you to use the same service they already offer in the Family tracker thing they offer.

[MacFly123]

So let me get this straight... I am supposed to pay $50 a year so people can know where I am at all times??? :rolleyes: Ya I'll pass. thanks! :rolleyes:

Total waste of $4 a month. Loopt should be able to do this for free as a background app. Come on, Apple!!! :mad:

Calm down lol. There is actually truth to what Apple says about concerns with battery life and CPU usage ya know?! I am absolutely positive they will add multi-tasking and are already working on solutions. Battery life will get better, CPUs will get more efficient and so on. It is just a matter of time until they add it. My bet is iPhone OS 4.0 with new hardware. And yes it will probably be an exclusive feature to the new phone due to the more efficient hardware.

You have to look at this as the new mobile computing revolution. The first Apple computers couldn't multi-task either. Give it a little time. I'd rather have them do it right than have a battery that dies in an hour lol! Push is a nice solution for the time being.

[pmjoe]

Always-on service beyond the initial trial period will cost $3.99 per month and will appear on users AT&T bills.
$3.99/month? ROTFLMAO!

AT&T should be paying me for the right to sell this info, not the other way around.

[Jetson]

How long will it be before they monitor your location (WITHOUT your permission).

Remember, AT&T was the company that co-operated with the Bush regime to secretly pass all internet traffic to the NSA.

[pacohaas]

You can already get this service on your AT&T lines regardless of which phone you have. You can view your family's locations on the web, it's $3.99. The only thing new here is that the Loopt App will support it.

[/dev/toaster]

Its hard enough finding someone who actually uses loopt, it would be even harder to find someone who would be willing to pay for it! Yes, I know the feature is optional. However, its not going to work or sell ... this really should be a free option which would really promopt people to try the platform.

A 14 day trail is also rather comical. When you first come across loopt your like, oh cool I can keep in touch with friends way easier. Then you realized that only a few of your friends that even have a device that supports it. Then getting them to actually use it more then 2 times its almost impossible. That short of a trial will result in very few subscriptions.

[longofest]

The other point is, why shouldn't a user who is willing to put up with sluggishness to keep pandora in the background, why shouldn't you be allowed to? (to answer my own question though: because apple would rather see people complain about no background processes than see articles about how iphones run like cold molasses. Even if people have the option not to do do backgrounding, they'd still complain if they had the ability and it didn't work right.)

You're exactly right. The user community would just see it as APPLE's iPhone being slow, rather than the 3rd party apps and the user's decisions making it slow. Lesser of two evils in Apple's eyes.

[rnwjr]

Well since it's beta for 14 days you can sign up and try it... Has anyone actually received info via "text" to be added to the beta?

[mikasn]

Great idea-guess it will help people find their lost phone also. But I’m kinda amazed since Loopt has been hanging when it starts and draining battery (not just on my Iphone) since update 3.0, and the support staff just say “we’ll have our technicians look at it.”

[Stately]

Pay $3.99 a month for something my phone should already be able to do... hmm, sounds like a certain company I know... oh yeah, AT&T :rolleyes:

Hahaha, I'm sorry for laughing but I said his would happen so many times and that it wouldn't stop. I never say things without reason. I experienced abuse when I was with AT&T and now everyones starting to see. I said by the time AT&T is finished, everyone would have a $300 phone bill just to use all the features the phone already comes with. Well you live and you learn I guess.

[PET34]

Privacy is privacy, no matter how you slice it. IMing or Texting your GPS coordinates is a BETTER feature. Integrating LOOPT into an IM client, and allowing people to turn on or off GPS broadcasting makes even more sense (especially if it works remotely for updates). A completely SEPARATE app for this becomes confusing and potentially problematic.


Take a look at http://www.crysp.uwaterloo.ca/software/nearbyfriend. They have a Pidgin plugin that alerts you of nearby friends. It's privacy friendly because there is no broadcasting of location information, neither to a single centralized server, as in the case of Loopt, nor to your friends.

[andy721]

Backgrounder works with every app to put the app in the background with ease. But lets not get out of hand here, you can do about 5 or 6 apps at once till all your 256mb ram is gone or it just crashes.

It's not a big of a deal if you have your iphone jailbroken.

[diamond.g]

You can already get this service on your AT&T lines regardless of which phone you have. You can view your family's locations on the web, it's $3.99. The only thing new here is that the Loopt App will support it.
I honestly didn't think anyone would even notice this. I am also surprised that it isn't the full 9.99 a month (http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/services/serviceDetails.jsp?LOSGId=&skuId=sku3690243&catId=cat1360001).

[iscott73]

Am I the only one who sees this as cheaper alternative to apples Find my iphone services. ill try it and see. 12x4=$48. instead of $100:)

[.Joel]

This loopt thing seems poor compared to what's on offer by the fone group.
http://www.thefonegroup.com

Up to the second updates on their fone sential, and they run a heap of stuff for facebook and twitter.

[shindelins]

loopt is the last app i'd like to background. though, i'm sure this is a big breakthrough in the stalker community.

[peperoni]

Calm down lol. There is actually truth to what Apple says about concerns with battery life and CPU usage ya know?! I am absolutely positive they will add multi-tasking and are already working on solutions. Battery life will get better, CPUs will get more efficient and so on. It is just a matter of time until they add it. My bet is iPhone OS 4.0 with new hardware. And yes it will probably be an exclusive feature to the new phone due to the more efficient hardware.

You have to look at this as the new mobile computing revolution. The first Apple computers couldn't multi-task either. Give it a little time. I'd rather have them do it right than have a battery that dies in an hour lol! Push is a nice solution for the time being.

Mobile computing revolution... I know I'm new iPhone user, but that's just too much. The thing I've used in all my previous mobile devices for more than past five years is soon going to be a revolution? Multitasking works perfectly in some other mobile platform (e.g. Maemo and S60) without much additional battery drain. Sure if you use GPS in background it will drain your battery as fast as it would be on your active screen, but that's common sense. What's it really useful is flicking between apps and letting the most used light apps (like email, todo, caledar, sms, etc.) just running in the background so that when it will easy and fast to switch between apps. All these notifications and such are great addition to multitasking/backround, but only in limited uses.

I would think the main culprit is Apple's "poor" coding. When you design the OS to run only one app at a time it's really hard to make it lighter later to allow problem free multitasking. If multitasking would have been one of the design key points, then the picture would have been different. And yes I know some Apple's own programs run in the background, but that's more or less trivial because it's only these few apps that could be easily optimised. On the contrary what I really want is my 3Gs to have as good multitasking as the new N900. Check how it does multitasking here (start at 4:40): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_WlpCpwVq4

[Bjohnson33]

Of course it will.

How can we get added MMS messaging for no cost, but to make our phone do something it normally can for free... just more often, cost us money?

Exactly what I was thinking. I can see someone paying $3.99 once for this, but on a monthly basis? That seems pretty steep for something that seems like more of a novelty than a necessity.

[MacFly123]

Mobile computing revolution... I know I'm new iPhone user, but that's just too much. The thing I've used in all my previous mobile devices for more than past five years is soon going to be a revolution? Multitasking works perfectly in some other mobile platform (e.g. Maemo and S60) without much additional battery drain. Sure if you use GPS in background it will drain your battery as fast as it would be on your active screen, but that's common sense. What's it really useful is flicking between apps and letting the most used light apps (like email, todo, caledar, sms, etc.) just running in the background so that when it will easy and fast to switch between apps. All these notifications and such are great addition to multitasking/backround, but only in limited uses.

I would think the main culprit is Apple's "poor" coding. When you design the OS to run only one app at a time it's really hard to make it lighter later to allow problem free multitasking. If multitasking would have been one of the design key points, then the picture would have been different. And yes I know some Apple's own programs run in the background, but that's more or less trivial because it's only these few apps that could be easily optimised. On the contrary what I really want is my 3Gs to have as good multitasking as the new N900. Check how it does multitasking here (start at 4:40): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_WlpCpwVq4

I didn't mean that multi-tasking is the mobile computer revolution. I am saying that the mobile computing revolution is in full force as we speak. Because of that, we can see that things are evolving and advancing at a rapid pace like when the desktop computing revolution happened.

I also know that Apple needs to implement multi-tasking. And I am also VERY SURE that Apple knows that and is already working on a solution. Like I said, it is just a matter of time. My guess is that iPhone OS 4.0 will multi-task.

I know Apple left out some key features for quite a while in the iPhone OS, but you have to look at the bigger picture. Some things they left out for political reasons, like MMS, they wanted to push email instead because it is better and more efficient. But, because of sheer demand, they are adding it, and it is even a better more advanced implementation that other phones (it doesn't scale your photos down when sending them, and you can send GPS locations etc). Also, flash for example, it is not on the iPhone for political reasons. Apple is trying to get rid of it period. I fully support them doing so as well! Other features simply had to be put aside until later because they were doing MASSIVE amounts of work to launch the iPhone in the first place! And although it may have lacked a few features, the original iPhone was launched very well and rock solid!

You also need to take a step back and look honestly at how much Apple has done with the iPhone since it was introduced, and literally changed mobile devices and industries forever! I'm not saying Apple is perfect, or they haven't made some mistakes, but they are blazing a new trail to the future. This is all uncharted territory. The iPhone started this all. People can argue about phones that were out before the iPhone, but it is only delusional people that deny the massive impact the iPhone has had. The iPhone literally launched the entire industry 5 years ahead of where it was, and as always every company is now imitating and trying to catch up.

Apple had massive amounts of work to do when they introduced the iPhone originally. Later with 2.0 they did massive work to make sure they addressed the corporate environment. That was very important for adoption of the platform. A lot of these things they learned the hard way back with the Mac and the desktop computing revolution. Now with 3.0 they addressed a lot of consumer issues again. And now with 4.0 they will be working on multi-tasking and just having fun with other really cool killer features, i guarantee it. They will also be bettering the App Store and merging the product lines between their computers, Apple TV, the iPhone and the Tablet. This will create a seamless ecosystem for computing and digital entertainment.

All of these things take a LOT of work. So although some phones are showing off multi-tasking right now, they wouldn't even be where they are if the iPhone didn't come out for them to imitate. iPhone OS is hardly "poorly" coded. It is the best mobile OS in existence in my opinion. Is it perfect? No, none of them are. Will it be improved? ABSOLUTELY!

Personally, I think it is simply AMAZING that these mobile devices can even do what they do now. And all while being small enough to carry in our pockets. It is incredible! So, as I said before, relax, Apple is definitely working on multi-tasking and many other cool things. Just give them a little time to do things well and efficiently. Again, battery life is actually a valid concern, and I want it done right with a battery that lasts long still!

[kdarling]

I didn't mean that multi-tasking is the mobile computer revolution. I am saying that the mobile computing revolution is in full force as we speak.

If you meant simply going mobile, a lot of us were doing that for years.

If you're talking about the current mass switch to smartphones, then I agree. But it reminds me a lot of when AOL and others suddenly let millions of naive users onto the Internet.

Some things they left out for political reasons, like MMS, they wanted to push email instead because it is better and more efficient.

MMS is almost infinitely more efficient than email, because it uses no extra power to watch for the incoming notifications. Push or fetch email chews up battery in comparison.

AFAIK, Apple never said anything against MMS. That's the fanboys making up excuses for its absence.

Also, flash for example, it is not on the iPhone for political reasons. Apple is trying to get rid of it period.

Again, Apple never said any such thing. On the contrary, Jobs simply said that he didn't want it until it was more mobile ready.

Could it be partly political, because of bad blood between Apple and Adobe? That's always possible, but Apple has never said so.

Now, Java is something Jobs said he didn't want to support. Which is extra dumb since the Macs do.

You also need to take a step back and look honestly at how much Apple has done with the iPhone since it was introduced, and literally changed mobile devices and industries forever!

The only thing Apple has changed, is moving the garden walls from a carrier to itself. Same greed and need for control, but it's them now.

So although some phones are showing off multi-tasking right now, they wouldn't even be where they are if the iPhone didn't come out for them to imitate.

The rest of your post is understandable fanboy enthusiasm. But this is just drivel.

The smartphone world has been out there for many years, with multitasking, touch, Google Maps, voice control, GPS and so forth.

RIM and others were doing just fine.

Apple just made it prettier and simpler for millions of casual users. The simplicity is both its initial attraction, and its eventual downside as users become more savvy.

[MacFly123]

If you meant simply going mobile, a lot of us were doing that for years.

If you're talking about the current mass switch to smartphones, then I agree. But it reminds me a lot of when AOL and others suddenly let millions of naive users onto the Internet.

Yes, the latter.

MMS is almost infinitely more efficient than email, because it uses no extra power to watch for the incoming notifications. Push or fetch email chews up battery in comparison.

AFAIK, Apple never said anything against MMS. That's the fanboys making up excuses for its absence.

More efficient in that MMS is basically baby crippled email. There are no standards for it across networks, it scales pictures down, it is often unreliable, etc.

Again, Apple never said any such thing. On the contrary, Jobs simply said that he didn't want it until it was more mobile ready.

Could it be partly political, because of bad blood between Apple and Adobe? That's always possible, but Apple has never said so.

Now, Java is something Jobs said he didn't want to support. Which is extra dumb since the Macs do.

I think you need to research the history of the industry and Flash. It is widely seen by anyone that understands the industry and the situation that Apple is trying to strong arm Flash out of the picture. Computers are a different story because the history has come and gone, but the iPhone is a fresh new platform where Apple can decide its outcome! What Steve said is simply a PR response.

The only thing Apple has changed, is moving the garden walls from a carrier to itself. Same greed and need for control, but it's them now.

Not that there isn't any truth to that, but you are severely in denial it seems.

The rest of your post is understandable fanboy enthusiasm. But this is just drivel.

The smartphone world has been out there for many years, with multitasking, touch, Google Maps, voice control, GPS and so forth.

RIM and others were doing just fine.

Apple just made it prettier and simpler for millions of casual users. The simplicity is both its initial attraction, and its eventual downside as users become more savvy.

I never claimed Apple invented smart phones. You obviously don't understand what exactly Apple does, and how it innovates and changes industries with its products. There is a reason the iPod was so HUGE. There is a reason the iPhone is so HUGE! I could go on. :rolleyes:

[peperoni]

I didn't mean that multi-tasking is the mobile computer revolution. I am saying that the mobile computing revolution is in full force as we speak. Because of that, we can see that things are evolving and advancing at a rapid pace like when the desktop computing revolution happened. I don't see things quite the same way you see things. IMO mobile industry has been slowing down a lot in past two years. Ever since the N95 hit market in march '07 the hasn't been any progress in HW except evolutionary on already used HW. The things I did then with N95 are pretty much the same thing I do now. Mobile OS wise since then there's two new OSs, iPhone's and Android. iPhone did make it easier for masses to use the same functions that have already been used quite some time and loads of eye candy. It's better now that you have more to choose from but the essential features and uses haven't changed much.

I also know that Apple needs to implement multi-tasking. And I am also VERY SURE that Apple knows that and is already working on a solution. Like I said, it is just a matter of time. My guess is that iPhone OS 4.0 will multi-task.
I agree with you on this one. IMO it's iPhone's biggest plunder (alongside with missing filesystem/browser) not to have it. I thought I could live without it, but now that N900 is released with imo functionally superior OS, Maemo, I don't think I will keep the 3Gs very long.

I know Apple left out some key features for quite a while in the iPhone OS, but you have to look at the bigger picture. Some things they left out for political reasons, like MMS, they wanted to push email instead because it is better and more efficient. But, because of sheer demand, they are adding it, and it is even a better more advanced implementation that other phones (it doesn't scale your photos down when sending them, and you can send GPS locations etc). Also, flash for example, it is not on the iPhone for political reasons. Apple is trying to get rid of it period. I fully support them doing so as well! Other features simply had to be put aside until later because they were doing MASSIVE amounts of work to launch the iPhone in the first place! And although it may have lacked a few features, the original iPhone was launched very well and rock solid!

For starters I've never been interested much about the reasons behind leaving things out if they are just excuses. MMS is part of telephony as SMS and phone calls wether Apple likes it or not. Same applies to flash, it's a part of internet. These "political decisions" are only hurting the end user and doesn't have any effect at all. In mobile industry Apple doesn't have much power to make people switch from MMS to email. Same for flash, I don't see how Apple is so against it when it's desktop OS supports it. In the end in computer business Apple has also small marketshare (3% globally?) so no power there either make any of these political decisions work.

You also need to take a step back and look honestly at how much Apple has done with the iPhone since it was introduced, and literally changed mobile devices and industries forever! I'm not saying Apple is perfect, or they haven't made some mistakes, but they are blazing a new trail to the future. This is all uncharted territory. The iPhone started this all. People can argue about phones that were out before the iPhone, but it is only delusional people that deny the massive impact the iPhone has had. The iPhone literally launched the entire industry 5 years ahead of where it was, and as always every company is now imitating and trying to catch up.

Apple had massive amounts of work to do when they introduced the iPhone originally. Later with 2.0 they did massive work to make sure they addressed the corporate environment. That was very important for adoption of the platform. A lot of these things they learned the hard way back with the Mac and the desktop computing revolution. Now with 3.0 they addressed a lot of consumer issues again. And now with 4.0 they will be working on multi-tasking and just having fun with other really cool killer features, i guarantee it. They will also be bettering the App Store and merging the product lines between their computers, Apple TV, the iPhone and the Tablet. This will create a seamless ecosystem for computing and digital entertainment.

Yes it's delusional to say iPhone hasn't affected the industry, but IMO it's insane to say iPhone was 5 years ahead when released. The work what Apple is doing to the other stuff since the launch in '07 is to catch up with features what the other OSs' already had. At the same time other makers started to make their UIs more like the iPhone (more graphical, TS, easier for masses). So the way I see it it's been a race where all the parties have the same goal, but different starting points.

All of these things take a LOT of work. So although some phones are showing off multi-tasking right now, they wouldn't even be where they are if the iPhone didn't come out for them to imitate. iPhone OS is hardly "poorly" coded. It is the best mobile OS in existence in my opinion. Is it perfect? No, none of them are. Will it be improved? ABSOLUTELY!

Well that's just so wrong... Some phones have had multitasking ages ago. Even SE's featurephones have had multitasking Java apps for years. It's nothing new. Of course the progress in mobile OSs (as in any other commercial goods) is based on improvements by a single company which then others copy as they seem fit. Other OSs have copied from iPhone's best abilities (the UI namely), but the same applies the other way around too. This 3Gs is my first take on iPhones and I like it's OS. Have been using S60 for quite many years and wanted to try something else. iPhone's OS is still difficult to judge because some things have been done spot on and some are appalling. Mostly I've been buggered how restricting the OS feels. Hence I've been wanting to switch to Maemo, which is IMO just better for my requirements. BTW by "poorly" coded I meant that it uses too much resources. With 256MB ram is quite enough to run about twenty programs including big ones like browser, navigator, gmaps, etc. in S60v5. In Maemo 5 with 256MB RAM I've seen quite a lot open apps running without much slowing down.

Personally, I think it is simply AMAZING that these mobile devices can even do what they do now. And all while being small enough to carry in our pockets. It is incredible! So, as I said before, relax, Apple is definitely working on multi-tasking and many other cool things. Just give them a little time to do things well and efficiently. Again, battery life is actually a valid concern, and I want it done right with a battery that lasts long still!

Batterylife is a valid concern and I don't think anyone would want to have a iPhone with batterylife any worse than what it already is. I guess Apple just needs to work hard to make it drain less battery. It's not like it hasn't been done before in other OSs.

[MacFly123]

I don't see things quite the same way you see things. IMO mobile industry has been slowing down a lot in past two years. Ever since the N95 hit market in march '07 the hasn't been any progress in HW except evolutionary on already used HW. The things I did then with N95 are pretty much the same thing I do now. Mobile OS wise since then there's two new OSs, iPhone's and Android. iPhone did make it easier for masses to use the same functions that have already been used quite some time and loads of eye candy. It's better now that you have more to choose from but the essential features and uses haven't changed much.

That may be true for feature phones but not smart phones. We are in the process of a mass migration to smart phones and mobile computing.

As far as you claiming the features have not changed, I could not disagree more! You ever heard of the App Store? :rolleyes:

I agree with you on this one. IMO it's iPhone's biggest plunder (alongside with missing filesystem/browser) not to have it. I thought I could live without it, but now that N900 is released with imo functionally superior OS, Maemo, I don't think I will keep the 3Gs very long.

The file system will come eventually as well.

For starters I've never been interested much about the reasons behind leaving things out if they are just excuses. MMS is part of telephony as SMS and phone calls wether Apple likes it or not. Same applies to flash, it's a part of internet. These "political decisions" are only hurting the end user and doesn't have any effect at all. In mobile industry Apple doesn't have much power to make people switch from MMS to email. Same for flash, I don't see how Apple is so against it when it's desktop OS supports it. In the end in computer business Apple has also small marketshare (3% globally?) so no power there either make any of these political decisions work.

You need to research the history of the computer industry and the effect Apple has had in several ways in pushing technology and standards!

Speaking strictly in a technological sense, Flash and MMS both suck. I'm not saying I don't use them, but they are very inferior technologies that I would love to see die and replaced by all the better options out there!

Yes it's delusional to say iPhone hasn't affected the industry, but IMO it's insane to say iPhone was 5 years ahead when released. The work what Apple is doing to the other stuff since the launch in '07 is to catch up with features what the other OSs' already had. At the same time other makers started to make their UIs more like the iPhone (more graphical, TS, easier for masses). So the way I see it it's been a race where all the parties have the same goal, but different starting points.

You need to stop looking at simple features when basic your comparisons. This is all about SOFTWARE! The mobile computing revolution is about SOFTWARE, and the iPhone was easily 5 years ahead of anything when it launched. They have the most advanced OS and the App Store. End of story! Before the iPhone, it was all crippled, ugly, baby software.

Well that's just so wrong... Some phones have had multitasking ages ago. Even SE's featurephones have had multitasking Java apps for years. It's nothing new. Of course the progress in mobile OSs (as in any other commercial goods) is based on improvements by a single company which then others copy as they seem fit. Other OSs have copied from iPhone's best abilities (the UI namely), but the same applies the other way around too. This 3Gs is my first take on iPhones and I like it's OS. Have been using S60 for quite many years and wanted to try something else. iPhone's OS is still difficult to judge because some things have been done spot on and some are appalling. Mostly I've been buggered how restricting the OS feels. Hence I've been wanting to switch to Maemo, which is IMO just better for my requirements. BTW by "poorly" coded I meant that it uses too much resources. With 256MB ram is quite enough to run about twenty programs including big ones like browser, navigator, gmaps, etc. in S60v5. In Maemo 5 with 256MB RAM I've seen quite a lot open apps running without much slowing down.

I wasn't referring to the multi-tasking. I believe the iPhone has 128 MB of RAM now.

Batterylife is a valid concern and I don't think anyone would want to have a iPhone with batterylife any worse than what it already is. I guess Apple just needs to work hard to make it drain less battery. It's not like it hasn't been done before in other OSs.

They are working hard! You honestly think they are just sitting around so others can catch up? I don't think people understand the mass amount of work and undertaking that this all is! The iPhone has seen constant updates like no other phone ever has, and they are still going, and will continue!

[diamond.g]

The file system will come eventually as well.

If it is anything like MMS the 3G users may get left out in the cold, for no apparent reason.

Speaking strictly in a technological sense, Flash and MMS both suck. I'm not saying I don't use them, but they are very inferior technologies that I would love to see die and replaced by all the better options out there!
Please explain how MMS is inferior to email. What can email do that MMS can't?


I wasn't referring to the multi-tasking. I believe the iPhone has 128 MB of RAM now.

You mean 256MB.

[MacFly123]

If it is anything like MMS the 3G users may get left out in the cold, for no apparent reason.
Please explain how MMS is inferior to email. What can email do that MMS can't?


You mean 256MB.

Sorry, you are correct. The 3Gs is 256MB. I was thinking of the fact that they doubled it but confused the new amount.

Do you know what MMS is? It is essentially baby crippled email. It also has no standards and is implemented differently on every network, hence the reason it is often unreliable.

Email has standards and is implemented accordingly. Email can manage any type of attachment. Email will not scale down your images and attachments. Email can be any length. Get the picture? It is the real deal, not some crippled form. That is why Apple tried to push email and not MMS initially, it is a superior technology. This is not an argument, these are facts.

[kdarling]

Do you know what MMS is? It is essentially baby crippled email. It also has no standards and is implemented differently on every network, hence the reason it is often unreliable.

MMS is not related to email. It serves a different purpose. It is SMS based. Which gives it the huge advantage of being true push, not a pull like all email is (except on the Blackberry).

Email has standards and is implemented accordingly. Email can manage any type of attachment. Email will not scale down your images and attachments.

You're obviously not talking about iPhone email, which is crippled more than some MMS implementations.

The original iPhone email crunched all photos down to 640x480. After the 2.x update, that was changed to (I believe) 800x600, but it's still scaled down.

Other smartphones deliver email with untouched attachments.

[CQd44]

My G1 has 96 mb of ram. What I would kill for 256 D:

I have to use a task manager to end processes I'm not using anymore to prevent it becoming sluggish.

[peperoni]

That may be true for feature phones but not smart phones. We are in the process of a mass migration to smart phones and mobile computing.

As far as you claiming the features have not changed, I could not disagree more! You ever heard of the App Store? :rolleyes:
Well I've been using smartphones and tablets for quite a while. I agree that the big masses especially in US are moving to smart phone, but smartphones on the whole doesn't offer much more than it has for many years. Yes I use App Store. There's quite a lot of stuff in there, but I can't say that it's diversity in apps is any better than what I've used on other platforms. The games are better though. The VERY BIG downside of App Store is that it's the only way load apps on the phone.

You need to research the history of the computer industry and the effect Apple has had in several ways in pushing technology and standards!

Speaking strictly in a technological sense, Flash and MMS both suck. I'm not saying I don't use them, but they are very inferior technologies that I would love to see die and replaced by all the better options out there!
I use both of them and I want both of them on my phone (well flash so much than MMS though). Now I've got MMS, but I want to have flash too. I just don't care if Apple has some agenda against them. Both of them are needed. *Drools to Maemo's Browser's built in full flash support*

You need to stop looking at simple features when basic your comparisons. This is all about SOFTWARE! The mobile computing revolution is about SOFTWARE, and the iPhone was easily 5 years ahead of anything when it launched. They have the most advanced OS and the App Store. End of story! Before the iPhone, it was all crippled, ugly, baby software.

Yes software is important, but on this I disagree with you. What makes it 5 years ahead of others? The smooth UI? The crippled feature set of the OS? Good browser? Crippled BlueTooth implementation? The OS featurewise is IMO very uneven, some things are great and some things are appalling or can't do it. I like this OS alot, but imo it's not as great as you proclaim it is. In the same sense I see the benefit of App Store for the masses, but I don't like a one bit as the only way to add apps to the phone.