Previously Rejected Commodore 64 Emulator Approved and Available on App Store

[Luke Redpath]

You may remember reading a few months ago about this getting rejected (http://manomio.com/index.php/blog/commodore_64_submitted_to_appstore). Well it appears Apple have reconsidered and it has popped up on the App Store in the last few hours:

http://www.c64iphone.com/

Downloading now...

[Gatteau]

From the video, it doesn't fully convince me.

Tell us what you think. :)

[Luke Redpath]

From the video, it doesn't fully convince me.

Tell us what you think. :)

Well, having played with it for five minutes, its very authentic. The UI is very nice and the ability to play in landscape without any extra UI chrome getting in the way is very cool. The games that come with it are very basic so the key to this will be a good supply of great classic games at a reasonable price.

Basically, if they get Gauntlet and Bombjack in there, I'll be happy. :)

[.Andy]

I'm buying this purely for jack attack. Used to play this to death on the commodore 16 when I was a kid. Been hoping for it to resurface somewhere :).

[Lone Deranger]

Is there functionality to add your own c64 games/roms?

[Luke Redpath]

Is there functionality to add your own c64 games/roms?

No, of course not!

[mkrishnan]

No, of course not!

So how does it work? The initial download lets you play around in the C64 basic / OS terminal and then also play these five games, right? Then what? When they release more games, will they just come in a totally separate app pack that also includes a copy of the emulator?

[Luke Redpath]

So how does it work? The initial download lets you play around in the C64 basic / OS terminal and then also play these five games, right? Then what? When they release more games, will they just come in a totally separate app pack that also includes a copy of the emulator?

I believe the apps will be sold as in-app purchases. I guess they may release free games too. There is an in-game "app store" as it were.

[Kahnyl]

In-app purchases or just plain app updates with the extra games, I guess. Like Classics.

[Lone Deranger]

Good enough for me.
I hope there'll be a wide enough range of titles eventually.

I believe the apps will be sold as in-app purchases. I guess they may release free games too. There is an in-game "app store" as it were.

[mkrishnan]

I believe the apps will be sold as in-app purchases. I guess they may release free games too. There is an in-game "app store" as it were.

In-app purchases or just plain app updates with the extra games, I guess. Like Classics.

Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention, but wasn't the whole problem with in-app purchasing that apps were not to have any mechanism that would lead to installing new executable code on the device at runtime?

Anyway, glad they finally got something approved. They worked really hard on this. :)

[jessica.]

I may purchase it but I'm not a fan of in app purchasing.

[Luke Redpath]

Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention, but wasn't the whole problem with in-app purchasing that apps were not to have any mechanism that would lead to installing new executable code on the device at runtime?

I think this was behind the reason for the original rejection however it appears Apple have reconsidered. No details as to why at this time though.

[Pika]

Does the Commodore 64 can support BASIC commands instead of playing games?

[Pikemann Urge]

No, it does not allow for BASIC. I think - hope - eventually that it will run an approved version of it. I don't see how it would lead to problems if it's restricted to the emulator's own memory space and it doesn't call anything outside of what the C64 can do. A bit more here:

http://toucharcade.com/2009/09/05/c64-emulator-approved-by-apple-and-now-available/#comments

[liptonlover]

I've been watching this one with anticipation and hope for awhile, I think I can clear up some questions.

The app was originally submitted identically to the way it is now except that it had BASIC fully functioning as well. All 5 current games and all future ones are/will be fully licensed and everything.

After being rejected, the developers got in touch with high-ups at Apple and cleared things up. The end result is obviously that the BASIC had to go.

My guess is that future games, or at least the bigger hits, will be sold and the rest will, if there is some mechanism for it, be offered for free.

As it has been approved, there should be no real obstacle to the developers rapidly expanding the library of games. If there's something you're looking for (Please God give me MULE!) then it'll likely show up eventually. It's a beautiful full emulator not a simulator, so the content is the only potential problem now. Oh, and I really had my heart set on the BASIC interpreter. Oh well :(. Easter egg update, maybe?

Nate

[Pika]

I want the BASIC functionality. Why Apple allow terminal emulator apps like iSSH and not allow BASIC emulator like this one :confused:

[det2004]

I would love to see Legacy of the Ancients on here as well. I used to play that game for hours, although I never did get around to finishing it. Good times though. :D

Also, having Dino Eggs on it would be cool too.

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/09/06/previously-rejected-commodore-64-emulator-approved-and-available-on-app-store/)

As reported on iPhone game site TouchArcade.com (http://toucharcade.com/2009/09/05/c64-emulator-approved-by-apple-and-now-available/), Apple has finally approved a Commodore 64 emulator called C64 (http://appshopper.com/games/c64) [App Store (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=305504539&mt=8)] for sale on the App Store. The emulator had originally been rejected (http://toucharcade.com/2009/06/20/full-commodore-64-emulator-rejected-from-app-store/) by Apple in June for violations of the SDK agreement, despite being officially licensed from both rights holders of the Commodore ROMs and the individual games bundled.

Apple has since been in contact with the company (http://manomio.com/) and a slightly modified version of the application has been approved for sale on the App Store. In particular, Apple appears to have requested the removal of the Commodore BASIC interpreter from the application which allows running arbitrary code.

The application bundles 5 games (Dragons Den, Le Mans, Jupiter Lander, Arctic Shipwreck, and Jack Attack) and the company plans on offering additional (properly licensed) games for sale and download. The cost of the additional games will be dependent on the conditions of the license holder but most are expected to be in the $0.99-$1.99 range (or even Free). The emulator only allows you to run these officially offered disk images and will not run arbitrary disks.

This video shot by TouchArcade (http://toucharcade.com/) shows the emulator in action, but shows titles that are not yet available, such as Bruce Lee and International Karate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VA3NB-jpGA

Manomio has said that they are actively working on bringing additional titles to the emulator.

Article Link: Previously Rejected Commodore 64 Emulator Approved and Available on App Store (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/09/06/previously-rejected-commodore-64-emulator-approved-and-available-on-app-store/)

[thegoldenmackid]

Oh the App Store...Oh the confusion, oh the lack of logic.

[oxygen8]

i hope blade runner is on there.

[FoxyKaye]

Hoping that the licensing can be worked out to offer a Sega emulator as well - Sonic the Hedgehog would totally rock on an iPod Touch!

[commander.data]

It's good to see that Apple and the developer reached a reasonable compromise. In truth, I think Apple is right in having the BASIC interpreter removed to prevent the execution of arbitrary code which could be a security concern. Hopefully, in the future, it won't take so long for these issues to be communicated and resolved.

[JimmyLecroy21]

Seriously **** the app store. With all there confusion and oh your time icon looks just like ours ********...... Im am so sick of apple and i am gunna come out and say it i am a fanboy. I seriously want to get rid of my iPhone as much as i love it its been the best phone ive ever had. But i want something that ACTUALLY HAS SERVICE! and everything doesnt either get rejected or crippled to wifi....

**** AT&T
**** Apple
**** iPhone.....


My god that was hard t say.......:(

[redgaz26]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A400 Safari/528.16)

Hoping that the licensing can be worked out to offer a Sega emulator as well - Sonic the Hedgehog would totally rock on an iPod Touch!

It's already there. I just played it!!!

[Lone Deranger]

Wish granted. (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=316050001&mt=8)


Hoping that the licensing can be worked out to offer a Sega emulator as well - Sonic the Hedgehog would totally rock on an iPod Touch!

[JimmyLecroy21]

Hoping that the licensing can be worked out to offer a Sega emulator as well - Sonic the Hedgehog would totally rock on an iPod Touch!

You do know that sonic is already in the app store right?

[MrENGLISH]

Sonic the Hedgehog would totally rock on an iPod Touch!

Sonic is already out for iPhone/iPod touch
(http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/24/sonic-the-hedgehog-races-onto-the-iphone-but-do-its-fake-buttons-slow-him-down/)

[muskratboy]

This is great and all.. except we only get to emulate that piece of crap Commode-Door 64.

Give us a real computer of the era... the Atari 800! Superior in every way!

and then... i will kick all your asses at Bruce Lee. seriously, i ruled that game. :D

[FoxyKaye]

Actually, no, I didn't - The truth is that I'm not much of a gamer. I think over the past two decades, I've played maybe a half-dozen games that I've really liked: Galaga, Sonic the Hedgehog, Mario Bros, Zaxxon, and some stuff on the Wii. So I never think to look in the app store because I just assume the licensing isn't going to happen. My first Windows Mobile device had Sonic on it and I loved it, but beyond the desktop emulators you can run on a Mac (which use illegal ROMs) I haven't thought to play on an iPod Touch until today's C64 emulator article.

Downloading now - yay! Thanks - I'm going to search for all my old favorites.

[inkswamp]

Seriously **** the app store. With all there confusion and oh your time icon looks just like ours ********...... Im am so sick of apple and i am gunna come out and say it i am a fanboy. I seriously want to get rid of my iPhone as much as i love it its been the best phone ive ever had. But i want something that ACTUALLY HAS SERVICE! and everything doesnt either get rejected or crippled to wifi....

**** AT&T
**** Apple
**** iPhone.....


My god that was hard t say.......:(

Save the drama for your mama.

[mail4asim]

Wish granted. (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=316050001&mt=8)

I get an error message saying APP not available in US Store.

[Evangelion]

This is great and all.. except we only get to emulate that piece of crap Commode-Door 64.

C64 is the greatest single computer ever released. Period. It's the best-selling computer of all time, and the software-library it has is quite simply staggering.

Maybe we could get Amiga 500 emulator next :)?

[clank72]

now I've seen everything

[napabar]

Call me crazy, but I don't see how Commodore BASIC could be used to write malicious code!

:)

These apps are sandboxed anyway......

Hopefully, the developer includes Contiki at some point.

A Vic-20 emulator would be awesome too!

[dagamer34]

Unlike other random App Store rejections, this one has a bit of sense to it. You see, the problem with running an interpreter on a device is that it can be used as a vector to execute unsigned code. The last thing Apple needs is an app that can be used to easily jailbreak your phone (or worse).

[oldwatery]

C64 is the greatest single computer ever released. Period. It's the best-selling computer of all time, and the software-library it has is quite simply staggering.

Maybe we could get Amiga 500 emulator next :)?

Oh yes...that would be very cool indeed.
(side bar....I wish the guys who do the Amiga Forever emulator would do an Apple version...I've been asking for years but they say there isn't a big enough user base :eek:)
As for the fool who says the C64 is a POC......nuff said ;-)

[tjcampbell]

Awesome, this was my first interaction with video games. Be getting this App for shizzle!

[techfreak85]

is this front page stuff?:confused:

[Thomas Harte]

Call me crazy, but I don't see how Commodore BASIC could be used to write malicious code!

:)

These apps are sandboxed anyway......

Hopefully, the developer includes Contiki at some point.

A Vic-20 emulator would be awesome too!
It can't, unless the emulator author actually wrote their own proprietary bridge between BASIC and the iPhone's filesystem. I think the point is that Apple don't want to allow this for fear of it being the thin end of the wedge. Obviously there's no official system of precedent for the store, but there's a vague unofficial one forming through blogger outrage.

For the purposes of the main discussion, I have to point out that the best 8bit micro was in fact the ZX Spectrum. That's why it has proper 3d versions of games like Hard Drivin' and Carrier Command.

[Michael73]

I loved Winter Games and Summer Olympics. Oh, and a game called Raid over Moscow. I learned my Russian geography from the game b/c is showed Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad on the map.

Of course part of the reason that I liked the C64 so much was it's improvement over my Atari. I'm really showing my age...

[Lesser Evets]

Remember when this came out? You needed something the size of modern floor mac in order to computer, save, display graphics, probably bigger, and it couldn't even come close to the computing power and memory of an iPhone today....

Why someone wants to relive the garbage on that system is a mystery.

Give us a real computer of the era... the Atari 800!
How about just an Apple ][+???

I miss those clunky graphics and limited colors like I miss a kidney stone.

[scarnie]

Unlike other random App Store rejections, this one has a bit of sense to it. You see, the problem with running an interpreter on a device is that it can be used as a vector to execute unsigned code. The last thing Apple needs is an app that can be used to easily jailbreak your phone (or worse).

There is no way for Commodore BASIC to run malicious code in this emulator - it's a sandbox in a sandbox :)

[Durendal]

Screw that! Give us an emulator for the best damned computer of that era:

The Apple IIgs.

Seriously, I still think that was one of the best computers Apple ever built. I still have an image of the 120MB hard drive my Dad plugged into it with all the games and everything else in Sweet16. I'd love to have some classic titles on my iPhone, like The Bard's Tale II, which should be adaptable enough.

[aronallen]

I got an exclusive interview with the designer of C64, check it out on my blog.
http://copenhagencocoa.com/2009/09/06/interview-with-c64-designer/

[RazHyena]

Wish granted. (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=316050001&mt=8)

Not quite. Or at least on my end, it says it's not available in the U.S. :mad:

[Bevz]

Downloading now - yay! Thanks - I'm going to search for all my old favorites.

Good luck with that... There seems a pretty poor choice at the moment!

Definitely a step in the right direction, but i think i'll be avoiding for the moment until some of the better C64 titles appear... For me, that'll be IK+, Thing on a Spring, Monty Mole, Suicide Express, Raid on Bungling Bay etc, etc.. Not to mention having the ability to load up the old C64 demos... That would have to be a must too ;)

[Shuttleworth]

I loved Winter Games and Summer Olympics. Oh, and a game called Raid over Moscow. I learned my Russian geography from the game b/c is showed Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad on the map.

Of course part of the reason that I liked the C64 so much was it's improvement over my Atari. I'm really showing my age...

I just found my C64 in the loft! Was thinking of eBaying it. I remember Raid over Moscow too, and the Olympics games that knackered your joystick as you had to wiggle them left and right really fast.
Talking of which there was also Strip Poker....:eek: <goes to loft>

[trondah]

is this front page stuff?:confused:

Yes. You obviously never owned a C64 :)

True C64 fans however can get the VICE (http://www.viceteam.org/macosx.html) emulator for Mac OSX and play with a Competition Pro USB (http://www.vesalia.de/e_competitionusb.htm) stick. Now back to playing Last Ninja.... ;)

[lord patton]

is this front page stuff?:confused:

It is if you're trying to promote your sister website, toucharcade.com!

(which I don't really mind, btw)

Anyhoo, call me when Intellivision shows up. And doesn't the iPhone/iPT platform need a dedicated control peripheral? Something that wraps around and provides a D-Pad, some buttons, and maybe even an analog stick?

[pete.d]

There is no way for Commodore BASIC to run malicious code in this emulator - it's a sandbox in a sandbox :)

If Apple's concerns were about security, that would be relevant. But, as is so often the case, when they say "security", what they really mean is "profit security".

If the emulator can run arbitrary BASIC code, it can run arbitrary BASIC code that Apple hasn't gotten their 30% cut on. As Thomas Harte wrote, Apple doesn't want this to be the wedge that opens the door for allowing any kind of program that can be extended post-purchase to do additional things without Apple getting to impose their fee structure on the extension.

Even ignoring the potential for viable iPhone applications to be written for the C64 BASIC, it would set a precedent for other more capable "platforms" to appear on the iPhone. And of course, even C64 BASIC does present a perfectly useful platform for a wide variety of certain kinds of applications.

[Erwin-Br]

Hopefully this will pave the way for SCUMM VM (http://www.scummvm.org/).

[markm49uk]

I loved Winter Games and Summer Olympics. Oh, and a game called Raid over Moscow. I learned my Russian geography from the game b/c is showed Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad on the map.

Of course part of the reason that I liked the C64 so much was it's improvement over my Atari. I'm really showing my age...

Raid Over Moscow - OMG how I loved that game - wasted so much time on that one !

Thanks for the reminder of happy days gone by.....

[DUSTmurph]

now I've seen everything

Have you ever seen a man eat his own head? No. So you haven't seen everything!

[BRLawyer]

C64 is the greatest single computer ever released. Period. It's the best-selling computer of all time, and the software-library it has is quite simply staggering.

Maybe we could get Amiga 500 emulator next :)?

I still miss the good ol' days of the Apple IIGS...a fantastic machine that kept perfect compatibility with the Apple // while introducing GS/OS, a system that was WAY ahead of any other similar initiatives by Atari and Commodore...not to mention that it had the best sound capabilities of any personal computer.

Edit: right on, Durendal...the Apple IIGS is among the finest machines Apple has ever built...and most probably the BEST personal computer of all time (with TransWarp, of course)... ;) Tunnels of Armageddon, anyone? ;)

[Mr. Amiga500]

C64 BASIC was made by Microsoft. Maybe this is another reason for dropping it.

Maybe we could get Amiga 500 emulator next :)?

...or maybe I could get an iPhone emulator for my Amiga 500.... ;)

[Small White Car]

There is no way for Commodore BASIC to run malicious code in this emulator - it's a sandbox in a sandbox :)

Apps have access to your address book and the internet. Sending your contacts to someone else is possible.

Apple would notice a program doing that, though. But in this case, who knows what it might do in the future?

Apple can't have an approval process AND approve the original version of this app. Doing that would make the process pointless.

You can argue that they shouldn't be approving apps, that's reasonable. But IF they're going to approve apps (as they do) then they have to block stuff like that.

[arn]

If the emulator can run arbitrary BASIC code, it can run arbitrary BASIC code that Apple hasn't gotten their 30% cut on.

Let me clarify this. It can run "arbitrary BASIC code"... that you have to type in yourself since there's no way to save or load apps. So, it would be going pretty old-school like magazines publishing pages and pages of BASIC code you'd have to type in yourself... that is until you quit the app and would have to do it again next time you launched. :)

and as to the significance of the app itself. Even if you weren't born when the C64 was out, this opens the door to future emulators in the App Store -- something that wasn't really thought possible.

arn

[markm49uk]

I just found my C64 in the loft! Was thinking of eBaying it. I remember Raid over Moscow too, and the Olympics games that knackered your joystick as you had to wiggle them left and right really fast.
Talking of which there was also Strip Poker....:eek: <goes to loft>

oh how I wish I had never sold my TI994/A, C64 or Amiga 500 computers - still I managed to hang onto my Amiga 1200 (despite protestations from the wife!)

[donlphi]

Finally I can get back to programming, right where I left off. :(

[entropys]

If Apple's concerns were about security, that would be relevant. But, as is so often the case, when they say "security", what they really mean is "profit security".

If the emulator can run arbitrary BASIC code, it can run arbitrary BASIC code that Apple hasn't gotten their 30% cut on. As Thomas Harte wrote, Apple doesn't want this to be the wedge that opens the door for allowing any kind of program that can be extended post-purchase to do additional things without Apple getting to impose their fee structure on the extension.

Even ignoring the potential for viable iPhone applications to be written for the C64 BASIC, it would set a precedent for other more capable "platforms" to appear on the iPhone. And of course, even C64 BASIC does present a perfectly useful platform for a wide variety of certain kinds of applications.

Except of course, the additional games can be free!

While you have a point, I reckon the bigger drivers in this case were to prevent piracy and malicious coding (if not in this app than other potential emulators) - Apple wouldn't want to set undesirable precedents for any future app listed for approval.

it is all too easy to forget that the app store exists to sell iphones and ipod touches, not make a motza from apps, video and music.

[capoeirista]

C64 = fail

Acorn Electron FTW!

Also, it was a total trip down memory lane to see Archer Maclean's name! And on page 1 of macrumors!

[jrnewhouse]

Brings back memories! The Commodore 64 was my first computer in 1983, and I still remember the first game I bought to play on it...Blue Max! It was a diagonal scrolling game in which you controlled a World War I plane, and you could fire the machine guns and bomb targets. It was a lot of fun for its time!

[jeffrhysjones]

10 Print "is It Just Me Or Do The Games That Come With This App. Seem More Like Vic20 Than C64?";
20 Goto 10

List

Run

[cwfrederick]

what are the odds of nintendo allowing an emulator for some of their older systems/games?

[Bevz]

....and as to the significance of the app itself. Even if you weren't born when the C64 was out, this opens the door to future emulators in the App Store -- something that wasn't really thought possible.

arn

amen to that! :) let the good times roll....

[Doctor Q]

I'd like a Mac System 7 emulator for iPhone, please. Be sure to bundle in ClarisWorks and all of my other old apps and let me open files for those old apps directly off my iDisk.

[Vster]

Here's to hoping for other emulators :D

NES yes plz...

[Thomas Harte]

C64 = fail

Acorn Electron FTW!

Also, it was a total trip down memory lane to see Archer Maclean's name! And on page 1 of macrumors!
As the author of ElectrEm and now an iPhone developer, I can confirm that the emulator would be quite easy to get going on the device. Sadly, ownership of the system ROMs is a significant legal hurdle even if the licences for some of the specific titles could be obtained, and most games rely on the system ROMs being present to function. Though not all that much of them, so maybe a clean-room reimplementation could be achieved.

Sadly, you'd never get Elite because Braben is very protective of it, the Chuckie Egg controls would be almost impossible on a touch screen, and Superior Software (http://www.superiorinteractive.com/) are still soldiering on selling Windows versions of Repton, etc, so probably wouldn't want 20-year old versions going to the iPhone. I think they licensed some of the properties to Masabi for mobile versions on Pocket PC and Windows Mobile many years ago, but the relevant sites seem to have vanished.

[Stuart in Oz]

Come on Amiga games!

1024 colors! Dedicated graphics chips! 512kB system RAM!...

Let's party like it's 1989!

[carmenodie]

oh my god! Brings back memories but after playing monster hunter freedom I don't think I have the patience to play that old stuff. Good flash back though. I wonder if itunes has the "you can't do that on television" series.Hmm.
Good times!!!!!

[iSamurai]

lol fighting at North Sydney...

[HLdan]

Seriously **** the app store. With all there confusion and oh your time icon looks just like ours ********...... Im am so sick of apple and i am gunna come out and say it i am a fanboy. I seriously want to get rid of my iPhone as much as i love it its been the best phone ive ever had. But i want something that ACTUALLY HAS SERVICE! and everything doesnt either get rejected or crippled to wifi....

**** AT&T
**** Apple
**** iPhone.....


My god that was hard t say.......:(

Sheesh, calm down dude. There's no reason to be "SICK" of Apple, just don't buy their stuff, but you need to take chill pill. We're talking about the computer industry and as a customer you have a right to either buy or not, but to get so worked up over it like you are, Apple is not hurting you personally nor are they threatening your life, go outside and enjoy life. :cool:

[Pika]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY2gK1MPgh8

[.Andy]

Finally I can get back to programming, right where I left off. :(
This needs some love :D! You're certainly not alone in this feat :p!


As for the emulator I'm loving it. Really just playing Jack Attack and reliving my childhood. The controls are absolutely terrible so in all it's a perfect replication of Commodore joysticks :)!

[OnaMacSince1989]

Please, please, please offer M.U.L.E. !!!!!!!!!!

[Master Chief]

Seems like we good old Commodore developers will be making some money again from our old stuff :cool:

[mdriftmeyer]

Seriously **** the app store. With all there confusion and oh your time icon looks just like ours ********...... Im am so sick of apple and i am gunna come out and say it i am a fanboy. I seriously want to get rid of my iPhone as much as i love it its been the best phone ive ever had. But i want something that ACTUALLY HAS SERVICE! and everything doesnt either get rejected or crippled to wifi....

**** AT&T
**** Apple
**** iPhone.....


My god that was hard t say.......:(

Cry me a river.

[boxstboy]

Awesome! Where did I leave that machine language manual? :D

[Lynxpro]

Oh yes...that would be very cool indeed.
(side bar....I wish the guys who do the Amiga Forever emulator would do an Apple version...I've been asking for years but they say there isn't a big enough user base :eek:)


The Amiga Forever people must be smoking some good stuff to discount the iPhone market. They'd certainly sell more wares on it than on the Amiga Everywhere pipe dream platform. Plus, there's already been a conversion of the Amiga's - allegedly - best pinball game over to the iPhone.

Shadow of the Beast would rule, as would any other Psygnosis game brought out on the Amiga and the Atari ST back in the day. Of course, Sony owns Psygnosis so I doubt it'll happen. They've yet to release any of those games - except Lemmings - on the Sony PSP and PS3. It boggles the mind their [Sony's] ineptitude on cashing in on the retro scene, especially since they [Sony] employs the co-creator of the Amiga in SCEA's R&D department.


for the fool who says the C64 is a POC......nuff said ;-)

Sorry, but the C64 did not outperform the Atari 8-bit line despite debuting 3 years after. However, I'd say Commodore got its revenge since the C64 helped bury the console business and nearly Atari itself, plus they nabbed Jay Miner when they bought Amiga.

The real crime is that when the Tramiels bought Atari, in their ineptitude, they buried the Amy sound chip project. If you think the SID [or Paula] was a great audio chip, you would've forgotten about it had the Amy hit the market. It would've been an awesome addition to the ST [or the Amiga], the 8 bit line, and/or any of the consoles.

[joesixgig]

..

[thecartoonguy]

This is great and all.. except we only get to emulate that piece of crap Commode-Door 64.

Give us a real computer of the era... the Atari 800! Superior in every way!

and then... i will kick all your asses at Bruce Lee. seriously, i ruled that game. :D

Ohhhh I forgot about the Atari 800. Good times

[Lynxpro]

It can't, unless the emulator author actually wrote their own proprietary bridge between BASIC and the iPhone's filesystem. I think the point is that Apple don't want to allow this for fear of it being the thin end of the wedge. Obviously there's no official system of precedent for the store, but there's a vague unofficial one forming through blogger outrage.


We all seem to be forgetting that Commodore BASIC - just like BASIC on the Apple II line - *is* Microsoft BASIC and while Commodore had the right to include it with each machine they sold, it is probably unclear if the current Commodore still holds such rights to transfer over to an Apple iPhone app; same goes for Apple's old license for BASIC which probably does not transfer to the iPhone either.

Almost all of the bundled BASICs on 8-bit computers were licensed from Microsoft with the exception of Atari BASIC.


Good luck with that... There seems a pretty poor choice at the moment!
Definitely a step in the right direction, but i think i'll be avoiding for the moment until some of the better C64 titles appear... For me, that'll be IK+, Thing on a Spring, Monty Mole, Suicide Express, Raid on Bungling Bay etc, etc.. Not to mention having the ability to load up the old C64 demos... That would have to be a must too ;)


I'd say any of the Epyx games of old like [I]Impossible Mission. Granted, a port of Epyx's Electrocop - the sequel to the Impossible Mission series - from the Atari Lynx would look better on the iPhone.


I still miss the good ol' days of the Apple IIGS...a fantastic machine that kept perfect compatibility with the Apple // while introducing GS/OS, a system that was WAY ahead of any other similar initiatives by Atari and Commodore...not to mention that it had the best sound capabilities of any personal computer.


Sorry, but no. The only area the IIGS surpassed the Atari ST and the Amiga was in internal audio with the Ensoniq audio chip [and in running Apple // series software]. And that audio chip was not better than the Motorola DSP that was found in the Atari Falcon and the NeXT Cube. In no way was the IIGS's 65816 microprocessor up to any Motorola 680x0 processors found in the ST and Amiga lines. The graphics weren't up to par, it wasn't as fast, the GUI wasn't as good, and it didn't do desktop video, publishing, or MIDI as well as its two competitors. It also cost twice as much and still wasn't a Macintosh and that's why it died the ignoble death it did.

[boxstboy]

If there's something you're looking for (Please God give me MULE!) then it'll likely show up eventually.


OMG, I loved M.U.L.E.! If they had that, I'd buy it in a second! Mobile M.U.L.E.!!!

[thecartoonguy]

10 Print "is It Just Me Or Do The Games That Come With This App. Seem More Like Vic20 Than C64?";
20 Goto 10

List

Run

Thank you!! I was trying to remember what else it looked like. I could not remember the Vic20 to save my life.

[Darkroom]

Call me crazy, but I don't see how Commodore BASIC could be used to write malicious code!

These apps are sandboxed anyway......


my thoughts exactly

but as soon as they load up BC Quest For Tires they got a sale... and Jumpman...

[thecartoonguy]

Yes. You obviously never owned a C64 :)

True C64 fans however can get the VICE (http://www.viceteam.org/macosx.html) emulator for Mac OSX and play with a Competition Pro USB (http://www.vesalia.de/e_competitionusb.htm) stick. Now back to playing Last Ninja.... ;)

Snort... These kids today with their super fast high end graphic computers. In our day we had 5 1/4 disks and :eek: tape drives. :D

[knuster]

found a way to enable BASIC in commodore64 app.
it's real easy

1 enable full keyboard in Settings
2 Start a game, press the RESET key on the keyboard, voila, BASIC!

have fun!!

[Spades]

Apps have access to your address book and the internet. Sending your contacts to someone else is possible.

Oh yes. I remember the old STEALADDRESSBOOK keyword in Commodore BASIC. That one was a pain, especially because all it did was print an address on the screen with the instructions to hand copy your address book and mail it there. And remember when that one magazine published the virus program?

10 STEALADDRESSBOOK
20 GOTO 10

Man, that one DoSed the entire postal system!

But now the whole process can be automated! :rolleyes:

[compuguy1088]

There is no way for Commodore BASIC to run malicious code in this emulator - it's a sandbox in a sandbox :)

I'de have to agree...to begin with, basic is, well, basic!

Let me clarify this. It can run "arbitrary BASIC code"... that you have to type in yourself since there's no way to save or load apps. So, it would be going pretty old-school like magazines publishing pages and pages of BASIC code you'd have to type in yourself... that is until you quit the app and would have to do it again next time you launched. :)

and as to the significance of the app itself. Even if you weren't born when the C64 was out, this opens the door to future emulators in the App Store -- something that wasn't really thought possible.

arn

Apparently, the basic interpreter was made an easter egg:


Me: Will it be possible to program the emulator from within the emulator?

Brian: Yes and no, as mentioned before, BASIC has been disabled due to the rules of App Store, “interpreters” are not permitted, but of course it is still in there, and it looks like several users already figured out how to enable it – though you will have no option to save your work yet.


http://copenhagencocoa.com/2009/09/06/interview-with-c64-designer/

[babyj]

Almost all of the bundled BASICs on 8-bit computers were licensed from Microsoft [I think Commodore paid 5 cents per C64 sold to Microsoft] with the exception of Atari BASIC.

The BASIC on Acorn computers (BBC Micro and Electron) was in house and was arguably the best available on 8-bit computers - the built in support for assembly language code was unique (as far as I'm aware).

[Stiksi]

I loved Winter Games and Summer Olympics. Oh, and a game called Raid over Moscow. I learned my Russian geography from the game b/c is showed Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad on the map.

I hope you've updated since then - 2 out of 3 of those cities haven't been called that in a long time! :) also wasn't Russia back then...

[gehrbox]

Wanted to clarify that The Woz wrote Apple BASIC which was later renamed "Integer BASIC" and was included on the early Apple II computers. The Microsoft licensed version was called "Applesoft BASIC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_BASIC)" and didn't make into the ROMs until the IIplus.

We all seem to be forgetting that Commodore BASIC - just like BASIC on the Apple II line - *is* Microsoft BASIC

[Kadman]

The only thing holding me back from purchasing this is that there are no guarantees of any of the true classic games showing up for this. The included games just aren't anything to get excited about. If they release something like Jumpman, Raid Over Moscow, Summer Games, Ghosts n Goblins, StarLeague Baseball, Commando, or any true classics, I'll bite in a heartbeat.

[adiosjefe]

Come on M.U.L.E.....I loved M.U.L.E on the C64 (and Atari 800).

[iSee]

It's good to see that Apple and the developer reached a reasonable compromise. In truth, I think Apple is right in having the BASIC interpreter removed to prevent the execution of arbitrary code which could be a security concern. Hopefully, in the future, it won't take so long for these issues to be communicated and resolved.

Yep. All those Commodore Basic-based viruses, dormant for so long, would start circulating again. Oh the horror!


10 PRINT "ALL YOUR COMPUTER ARE BELONG TO ME!"
20 GOTO 10

[Mr. Gates]

Anybody remember an old game called Necromancer?

I know it was on the Atari 800 but not too sure about C64

[GoKyu]

Anybody remember an old game called Necromancer?

I know it was on the Atari 800 but not too sure about C64

I don't remember a title called Necromancer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancer_%28video_game%29), but I do remember (and played when I got my C64 off eBay a few years ago), Neuromancer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromancer_%28video_game%29) (from William Gibson/Interplay - this one BETTER be available for the iPhone!)

As I mentioned, I purchased a used C=64c (I had the original C=64 from '82 till '95 or so) off eBay a few years back, and I had kept a bunch of software, expecting to buy one again.

Kinda lame that it doesn't have access to the BASIC interpreter, but kinda cool that it's hidden and able to be found...Anyone remember "Hacker"? :)

I'm going to buy this right now... :)

[Mr. Gates]

I don't remember a title called Necromancer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancer_%28video_game%29), but I do remember (and played when I got my C64 off eBay a few years ago), Neuromancer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromancer_%28video_game%29) (from William Gibson/Interplay - this one BETTER be available for the iPhone!)

As I mentioned, I purchased a used C=64c (I had the original C=64 from '82 till '95 or so) off eBay a few years back, and I had kept a bunch of software, expecting to buy one again.

Kinda lame that it doesn't have access to the BASIC interpreter, but kinda cool that it's hidden and able to be found...Anyone remember "Hacker"? :)

I'm going to buy this right now... :)

That game looks pretty cool, but in the one I was refering to you are a wizard in the forest casting spells and engaging zombies and spirits.

[amiganut]

Give us a real computer of the era... the Atari 800! Superior in every way!
:D

Better yet, how about an Amiga Emulation?

[dicklacara]

I am an iPhone developer and I was under the impression that all emulators were banned from the app store.

If that is not the case, what does that mean for Java apps?

TIA

Dick

[dicklacara]

We all seem to be forgetting that Commodore BASIC - just like BASIC on the Apple II line - *is* Microsoft BASIC.


Actually, the Apple ][ had an Assembler/debugger and Integer BASIC in ROM (written by Woz). MS BASIC was a later addition.

[dicklacara]

Ahh... brings back memories of the pre and early Mac era...

... do da name "Kensh Rutha" strike a familiar note?

[fpnc]

Is it just me or does the audio in the demo video appear to have random pops and defects? Perhaps the audio isn't being emulated that well which could be a major distraction.

[Mark Booth]

If they manage to license Miner 2049'er for this emulator, I'll buy it in a heartbeat! Loved that game!

Mark

[Lynxpro]

The BASIC on Acorn computers (BBC Micro and Electron) was in house and was arguably the best available on 8-bit computers - the built in support for assembly language code was unique (as far as I'm aware).


Good point. And wasn't the Acorn BASIC the basis for the changes to BASIC that was later picked up by GFA and ultimately Microsoft via Visual Basic and all subsequent releases?

Plus, without Acorn, no ARM.


Wanted to clarify that The Woz wrote Apple BASIC which was later renamed "Integer BASIC" and was included on the early Apple II computers. The Microsoft licensed version was called "Applesoft BASIC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_BASIC)" and didn't make into the ROMs until the IIplus.


Very true, but was was the install base of the // versus the //+, the //e, and the //c?



Come on M.U.L.E.....I loved M.U.L.E on the C64 (and Atari 800).


Agreed. EA is stupid to not have brought out an updated version. It is very arguable if the 400/800/XL/XE version of M.U.L.E. is better than the C64 version. The arguments are mainly about the music and a lot claim SID music on the C64 is better than the Pokey music on the Atari 8-bit line. I like the SID stuff but I think the Pokey version is just as good in this case. Plus, on the 800, you had 4 player mode.


Anybody remember an old game called Necromancer?

I know it was on the Atari 800 but not too sure about C64


http://www.atarihq.com/reviews/atari8/necromancer.html


I don't remember a title called Necromancer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancer_%28video_game%29), but I do remember (and played when I got my C64 off eBay a few years ago), Neuromancer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromancer_%28video_game%29) (from William Gibson/Interplay - this one BETTER be available for the iPhone!)


I used to play an EA (?) game called The Immortal which I think would work on the iPhone. I think they made a C64 versus but I played it on my 1040ST.


How come all you 8-bitters aren't buying the SD card adapters for the Atari 8-bit and C64 so you can play all of the old games without the problems from old 5.25 disk drives and tape drives?

[Mr. Amiga500]

How come all you 8-bitters aren't buying the SD card adapters for the Atari 8-bit and C64 so you can play all of the old games without the problems from old 5.25 disk drives and tape drives?

Actually, I bought an SD adapter for my Atari 800XL last week.

[Darkroom]

If they manage to license Miner 2049'er for this emulator, I'll buy it in a heartbeat! Loved that game!

Mark

OMG! i totally remember and loved that game. i'm with you. in a heartbeat!

[chevyorange]

Archon and Archon II.

Accolade games.

And I suppose I won't need my Epyx Mach 5 or Cinemaware Warp Speed cartridges either!

[chevyorange]

This is great and all.. except we only get to emulate that piece of crap Commode-Door 64.

Give us a real computer of the era... the Atari 800! Superior in every way!

and then... i will kick all your asses at Bruce Lee. seriously, i ruled that game. :D

Bruce Lee was one of the first games I had for my might Commodore 64! Along with Ghostbusters and Spy Hunter.

[Stuart in Oz]

It's an Amiga game, but I'd **love** to see Ports of Call.

EDIT - Crikey, they already have it in the app store! There's too many new apps to keep up.

[kresh]

+1 for M.U.L.E.

I also would love to see Impossible Mission as well.

[donlphi]

How does this app even have the right to call itself a C64 Emulator? Simply running games has nothing to do with the spirit of the C64. This machine was the start of many a hacker group back in the day.

They say they will be adding it later with an update, but I'd be willing to bet it never happens. Apple is cool with it as a crappy game machine, but not something running a separate computer language. I'm sure the full emulator will never see the light of day.

[GoKyu]

How come all you 8-bitters aren't buying the SD card adapters for the Atari 8-bit and C64 so you can play all of the old games without the problems from old 5.25 disk drives and tape drives?

Got a link? I've never heard of an SD card reader for the C64...I still have dual 1541 drives anyway... :)

[$ahil]

Now how about a NES & SNES one? :)

[Mark Booth]

For all you retro gaming fans, you guys ARE aware of MAME OS X and things like the Colecovision Emulator for the Mac, right? :)

Mark

[PurrBall]

Now how about a NES & SNES one? :)

I think a SNES emulator would be great. Now that we have in-app purchasing in 3.0, games not distributed with the app can be put on the device without the user needing filesystem write access, and it would also cover any licensing fees.

[GoKyu]

For all you retro gaming fans, you guys ARE aware of MAME OS X and things like the Colecovision Emulator for the Mac, right? :)

Mark

Oh yeah, definitely - But the "MAME OS X" project is pretty much dead. The most current one is SDLMAME (http://rbelmont.mameworld.info/?page_id=163).

Vice (http://www.viceteam.org/) is one of the better C=64 emulators out there too.

I'd love to try a Sega Genesis emulator and play the original R-Type :) (Although I've played it through MAME too ;) )

[andy721]

Didn't this come out a while ago on Jailbroken iPhones? I believe so, so what's new?

[Duncan-UK]

Whilst this is good news - and I have limitless undying love for the Commodore 64, I dont really know if I can be bothered fiddling around with a finger style joystick to play games on the move.

My two all time favourite 64 games - Paradroid and Impossible Mission are available on the Wii store 64 emulator, so I'd rather play those at home on a decent screen.

Be nice if they can get some of the Jeff Minter games such as Hovver Bovver and Revenge Of The Mutant Camels :)

[NightFox]

I remember being a cutting edge virus developer on the C64. I'm not going to reveal the BASIC program here for obvious reasons, but basically (ha!) if you had a Commodore computer connected up to a dot matrix printer in your classroom at school, you turned the screen off and half way through a boring lesson the printer would suddenly kick into life printing "reverse field" spaces for line after line after line with a deafening non-stop screech.

Can you even start to imagine the potential black hat carnage and destruction if this type of tool became available on the iPhone?

(Best thing ever on the C64 though was the program that played "Daisy, Daisy" by repeatedly crashing the R/W head on your C1541 disk drive or something like that anyway - http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=26251)

[amammad]

Didn't this come out a while ago on Jailbroken iPhones? I believe so, so what's new?

Are you serious?

[Evangelion]

I still miss the good ol' days of the Apple IIGS...a fantastic machine that kept perfect compatibility with the Apple // while introducing GS/OS, a system that was WAY ahead of any other similar initiatives by Atari and Commodore...not to mention that it had the best sound capabilities of any personal computer.

I beg to differ. While IIGS might have had better sound, it was inferior in just about every other way. The OS was nowhere as advanced as the Amiga OS was, Amiga had twice as much RAM standard as GS had, and it had faster CPU, it had dedicated graphics-accelerators... Not to mention the fact that GS was almost twice as expensive as Amiga 500 was.

[BlueRevolution]

In 20 years, we'll be running iPhone emulators on our iImplants. (Note to self: name needs work.)

[Thomas Harte]

Almost all of the bundled BASICs on 8-bit computers were licensed from Microsoft [I think Commodore paid 5 cents to Microsoft per C64 sold] with the exception of Atari BASIC.
Maybe on your continent. Over here the big three that survived into the early 90s were the Commodore 64, the ZX Spectrum and the Amstrad CPC, running Microsoft, Sinclair and Locomotive BASICs respectively. BBC BASIC, as cited above for its inclusion of inline assembly, had a decent run turning up not just in the BBC, Electron and Archimedes, but also in the Z88.

Pretty much every 8bit came with its own BASIC implementation.

[.Andy]

Can someone else please post that they've played Jack Attack and that it's awesome so as to vindicate my childhood?

Thanks in advance :).

[NightFox]

Maybe on your continent. Over here the big three that survived into the early 90s were the Commodore 64, the ZX Spectrum and the Amstrad CPC, running Microsoft, Sinclair and Locomotive BASICs respectively. BBC BASIC, as cited above for its inclusion of inline assembly, had a decent run turning up not just in the BBC, Electron and Archimedes, but also in the Z88.

Pretty much every 8bit came with its own BASIC implementation.

I think in today's global IT world, many of us don't realise how regional home computers were back then. Many of the names us Brits grew up with in the 80's would mean little to an American.

As well as the good old ZX80 and 81, Spectrum, various Amstrads, Acorn Atom and the BBC Micro, there were also the less remembered Oric 1 (supposedly named after the computer on Blake's 7, even though that was called Orac) and the Dragon 32, the joke going that it had two "L" keys, being Welsh.

I remember reading a passing reference to these in a book about the 80's home computer boom which was focussed on the US movement. It said something like "Of course, there were other home computers at this time, several from the UK, but most of these were so strange and complicated you had to be British to understand them". Or words to that effect!

[mrfrosty]

Call me crazy, but I don't see how Commodore BASIC could be used to write malicious code!

:)

These apps are sandboxed anyway......

Hopefully, the developer includes Contiki at some point.

A Vic-20 emulator would be awesome too!

All that pokin' could be fun if you can get out of the sandbox though !

[Sermon]

Commodore 64 emulator on the iPhone? Great idea, but thanks, I'll pass. The whole thing is completely redundant if you cannot upload your own disk images and are dependant on what games the developers of the emulator feed you with.

So, I'm all for the C64 emulator, but only if I can upload my own disk images.

[Bjohnson33]

Sonic is already out for iPhone/iPod touch
(http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/24/sonic-the-hedgehog-races-onto-the-iphone-but-do-its-fake-buttons-slow-him-down/)

That's amazing! I had no idea that had been released - and it looks pretty good! I don't know if anyone initially thought of the iPhone as a great gaming platform, but it has certainly turned out that way. It's great to see what the developer community has been able to accomplish with the tools they have been given!

[Stuart in Oz]

Oh gosh, people arguing over Amiga, Amstrad and BBC Thomson, throwing stats, quoting custom chip names...

It's 1988 and I'm 10 again. ;)

[Tiffy]

C64 is the greatest single computer ever released. Period. It's the best-selling computer of all time, and the software-library it has is quite simply staggering.

Maybe we could get Amiga 500 emulator next :)?

And what about an Apple II emulator ? It had lots of great games.

[achie25]

I loved Pitfall on my C64

[Bemopti123]

Remember when this came out? You needed something the size of modern floor mac in order to computer, save, display graphics, probably bigger, and it couldn't even come close to the computing power and memory of an iPhone today....

Why someone wants to relive the garbage on that system is a mystery.


How about just an Apple ][+???

I miss those clunky graphics and limited colors like I miss a kidney stone.

You simply miss the entire point, perhaps the app is attempting to tap into an aging computing group, much like me. People who were in the tweens and teens in the 80s, who grew up craving Atari and Commodore. Who were into New Wave, Michael Jackson etc...

Of course modern devices trump all older machines in the absolute technological sense BUT, if the world would follow your logic, it might entail getting rid of EVERYTHING at the expense of something new and more modern.

IE: I would fear to live in a world where there would be Museum art
"burnings" every 50 years because things are deemed old and not up to standards. :eek:

[MacToddB]

To anyone holding back because it doesn't yet have the particular game you long for...

Go ahead an buy it. It's great. Well done, and (while I have no relationship with the developer), I just think we should encourage the developer with our pocketbook.

So I bought it last night. It brings me back to 1983, Senior Year in High School, when I worked at Leon's computer store, selling videogame consoles and computers like the Vic-20, C64, Coleco Adam, TI-994/A, Atari 400/800, IBM PC Jr, etc., and then came the Mac!

Of course, we should feel free to contact them with recommendations, but do so as a paying customer. Just my opinion.

Remember when we all complained that the top selling apps were Fart apps? Now something comes along, that's sophisticated, elegant, and extensible.

Also, it was delayed by Apple (so the developer has been missing out on revenue), and it's more than $0.99. Imagine the lesson to both Apple and other developers if a $4.99 app can reach the top? Plus, it would show Apple they should have approved it long ago.

[MadGoat]

To anyone holding back because it doesn't yet have the particular game you long for...

Go ahead an buy it. It's great. Well done, and (while I have no relationship with the developer), I just think we should encourage the developer with our pocketbook.


I will hold out until it has the games I want and to be sure it's not an in-app purchase... otherwise they can go to hell.

[davester]

Impossible Mission!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

... would be nice!

[AforAndromeda]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/09/06/previously-rejected-commodore-64-emulator-approved-and-available-on-app-store/)

As reported on iPhone game site TouchArcade.com (http://toucharcade.com/2009/09/05/c64-emulator-approved-by-apple-and-now-available/), Apple has finally approved a Commodore 64 emulator called .......




:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Is there going to be light at the end of the tunnel re any more emulators?

I know it's not a Commodore issue, but PLEASE someone create Phoenix (80's arcade game like space invaders) and Maze (BBC Micro)...

I know there are many reasons, many licences... but.....

....I guess I'm going to die of old age without ever shrieking in joy again over these games...

:( Depressed Dude

[mrod]

Acorn Electron FTW!


Surely you mean Acorn Atom. ;-)

[normwood]

I will hold out until it has the games I want and to be sure it's not an in-app purchase... otherwise they can go to hell.

Madass would be a more fitting screen/forum name.

Steve

[mrod]

There is no chance of this, even using 6502 assembler.

Firstly, this isn't a sandbox so much as emulated hardware, including the processor and the memory. It's not running any native ARM code (though an Acorn Archimedes VM would). Without an emulated disk/tape interface with write capability it can't even store anything.

Apple has a blanket ban on interpreters so that they can ban things such as flash or anything else which may have network access or may possibly cause the telcos to get tetchy.

[stevegt87]

That said, id buy it if it had any of the following; Raid on Bungling bay, Summer Games or Mission Impossible.

[pubwvj]

It is very unfortunate that Apple has refused the BASIC feature. That would be a great place for children (and adults) to learn programming.

I second the request for other emulators. Sorcerer Z80, Apple II, MacClassic...

[Duncan-UK]

It is very unfortunate that Apple has refused the BASIC feature. That would be a great place for children (and adults) to learn programming.

I second the request for other emulators. Sorcerer Z80, Apple II, MacClassic...

so speaks someone who presumably never tried commodore basic the first time around...

why would anyone be insane enough to want to learn a dire implementation of a 1980s BASIC using such a vile interface (for programming) as an iPhone keyboard.

Texting fine - programming - forget it!!

Anyway CBM BASIC is all POKEs and precious little else.

Must admit though I did download VICE today and remembered to POKE 53281,x and 53280,x to change the screen colours and SYS64738 to soft reset the machine :)

Might dust down my copies of ZZAP! 64 - the finest computer magazine ever produced!

[michael.lauden]

i have a feeling, like on the mega man game, the gameplay will be horrible

[MacToddB]

Madass would be a more fitting screen/forum name.

Steve

Or MadPirate... He talked about pirating such apps in another thread. All the more reason those of us should support the C64 developers with our pocketbook.

[Thomas Harte]

Might dust down my copies of ZZAP! 64 - the finest computer magazine ever produced!
You've just reminded me that I had a Crash subscription all those years ago...

A hot tip from Wikipedia: "Through the biggest Dizzy themed fan website, www.yolkfolk.com, the Oliver Twins have explicitly stated that they will normally tolerate fan created games based on the Dizzy franchise that are made freely available, respect the brand and include a prescribed license message", so it'd probably be perfectly feasible for someone to release an iPhone Dizzy game. Just not one of the originals.

[ryanw]

It is very unfortunate that Apple has refused the BASIC feature. That would be a great place for children (and adults) to learn programming.

I second the request for other emulators. Sorcerer Z80, Apple II, MacClassic...

Uh, ok, seriously.... An iPhone/iTouch display is no the best environment for a kid to learn programming. Nothing's stopping you from teaching/learning basic on your PC/Mac at home! You can download and install a basic interpreter for your Mac faster than I am writing this post.. . Or better yet, fire up the terminal and launch 'vi' and teach the kid perl.

Seriously, not having the basic interpreter on the iPhone isn't a big deal.. Nobody would screw around with it for more than a day anyway, cause you can't save the program anyway... And even if you could, it'd be easier to write an iPhone app using the Apple provided SDK using Obj-C.

If you really want the iPhone to teach programming, write an app for the iPhone that teaches Basic or C or whatever. Have it step through programming and emulate a compiler with programmed responses and conditions and outputs and step someone through the basics.. It doesn't actually need a compiler that works. Just one that goes through the lessons...

[MvdM]

How much harm can the basic interpreter bring to the iPhone? I think they should include it.

[Lynxpro]

I beg to differ. While IIGS might have had better sound, it was inferior in just about every other way. The OS was nowhere as advanced as the Amiga OS was, Amiga had twice as much RAM standard as GS had, and it had faster CPU, it had dedicated graphics-accelerators... Not to mention the fact that GS was almost twice as expensive as Amiga 500 was.


I already covered all that in an earlier post, but I also included the ST in the picture as well.

However, the IIGS's Ensoniq sound chip was better than even the Amiga's. Of course, the Motorola DSP found in both the NeXT computer line and the Atari Falcon put even that to shame.



Maybe on your continent. Over here the big three that survived into the early 90s were the Commodore 64, the ZX Spectrum and the Amstrad CPC, running Microsoft, Sinclair and Locomotive BASICs respectively. BBC BASIC, as cited above for its inclusion of inline assembly, had a decent run turning up not just in the BBC, Electron and Archimedes, but also in the Z88. Pretty much every 8bit came with its own BASIC implementation.


Are you claiming the Atari 8-bit line was never big in the UK? That certainly wasn't the case once the market shifted to 16-bit computers.


Apple has a blanket ban on interpreters so that they can ban things such as flash or anything else which may have network access or may possibly cause the telcos to get tetchy.


See, I don't understand this position. WinMo as a platform was never as locked down like this and the carriers didn't seem to mind. Maybe they simply tolerated WinMo for business customers and concluded it would never be a hit with consumers so no need to lock it down by default.

Got a link? I've never heard of an SD card reader for the C64...I still have dual 1541 drives anyway... :)


Maybe Mr Amiga 500 can provide a link. I've seen it before but Google was not finding it. Perhaps if you search for the C64 laptop project on Benheck.com, it'll have a link to it because I believe he used such a device. I thought the Atari SD reader was called Atarimax but that is coming up as a different product via Google...

[MadGoat]

Or MadPirate... He talked about pirating such apps in another thread. All the more reason those of us should support the C64 developers with our pocketbook.

Talking and doing are two different things. but in app purchases are still one of the biggest shams to come to the app store.

[Lynxpro]

Originally Posted by GoKyu
Got a link? I've never heard of an SD card reader for the C64...I still have dual 1541 drives anyway...




Here's a project...
http://www.1541ultimate.net/content/index.php

[Thomas Harte]

Are you claiming the Atari 8-bit line was never big in the UK? That certainly wasn't the case once the market shifted to 16-bit computers.
The ST was absolutely massive, but I've no idea about the 8bit line. But in terms of software support, by probably '88 or '89, every major game came out for the Spectrum, Commodore 64, Amstrad CPC, Amiga and Atari ST. Of those, only the first three has BASIC in ROM and only the first three shipped consistently with BASIC throughout their lifespan. And all three of those BASICs were completely separate implementations — even after Amstrad bought Sinclair and became sole suppliers of both machines.

From purely personal experience, I did know someone with an Atari 8bit, which is much more than I can say about the Oric, Dragon, Enterprise, Jupiter, etc.

EDIT: Me? I had a Sam Coupé. Me and maybe twelve other people.

[Mark Booth]

I was an AVID Atari fan! I owned the 2600 and the 5200. The Atari 800 was my first computer. I can remember all-night sessions logged into pirate BBSs via a 300 baud modem, downloading every disc image in sight! :) Later, I was a huge fan of the Atari ST line. I met Jack Tramiel and his sons multiple times at various Atari user conventions. In fact, the Atari ST is what led me to become a Macintosh enthusiast...

When David Small ("Gadgets by Small") invented the "Magic Sac" Macintosh emulator for the Atari ST, I became an immediate fan. I took to sharing my enthusiasm on both Compuserve and GEnie and, ultimately, was invited by David Small to be an official (paid) product support specialist for the Magic Sac and, later, the Spectre 128 and Spectre GCR. Back then, a color Mac was what I really wanted but the the full-blown color Macintosh II system was $10,000!!! Yikes! But, eventually, Atari Corporation started coming apart at the seams and Apple released less expensive color models. When the timing was right, I purchased my first real Mac.... The Macintosh LC in 1990 or so.

I've been a Mac nut ever since. But I do fondly remember the magical '80s and all of the fun I had being a participant in the beginning of the home computer revolution!

Mark

[kdarling]

Yeah, it's odd to hear people complain about paying $1 a day for mobile broadband... when back in the day, we had 300 baud modems that would take several hours to download a 1MB picture... at $5 an hour on CIS !!

[firewood]

I want the BASIC functionality. Why Apple allow terminal emulator apps like iSSH and not allow BASIC emulator like this one :confused:

It seems to be App store policy. According developers whom I've talked with, Apple has rejected a least 2 other BASIC interpreters, including a limited Tiny Basic implementation.

A bit sad, given that Apple got its start running Woz's Integer BASIC interpreter.

i

[Mr. Amiga500]

Maybe Mr Amiga 500 can provide a link. I've seen it before but Google was not finding it. Perhaps if you search for the C64 laptop project on Benheck.com, it'll have a link to it because I believe he used such a device. I thought the Atari SD reader was called Atarimax but that is coming up as a different product via Google...

I sure can:
http://www.nkcelectronics.com/sd2iec-boar2.html
and it goes with:
http://www.nkcelectronics.com/sd2iec-daughter-boar2.html

Don't try clicking on "Add to cart" though. They're sold out. :(

For the Atari 8-bit:
http://nuxx.net/wiki/SDrive_NUXX

And I just found out that's sold out too. :( :(

[twoodcc]

interesting. i'll have to check it out

[markm49uk]

Might dust down my copies of ZZAP! 64 - the finest computer magazine ever produced!

ZZAP! 64 !!!!!!!

I'm 11 again.

[markm49uk]

Be nice if they can get some of the Jeff Minter games such as Hovver Bovver and Revenge Of The Mutant Camels :)

They just don't make them like this anymore....

[Pikemann Urge]

This just in: You can access the BASIC interpreter via a simple 'hack':

http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/09/06/quick-app-c64-commodore-64-emulator-iphone-hack-basic/

(via Daring Fireball (http://daringfireball.net/))

[cocamouthwash]

I just downloaded Google Voice from the App store.

EDIT: It didn't finish downloading, and is no longer there.

[bry2k]

I tried it. The BASIC interpreter is there. This is based on a port of Frodo. Turn on the preference to show the full keyboard always. Start a game, then switch to the "extras" keyboard and push reset. That exits the game and drops you into the BASIC terminal and you can start programming a C64 on your iPhone. It's ridiculously cool. Ridiculous, but cool.

Minor issues:

1) The developer left out the ";" semicolon on the keyboard.

2) If you go to the trouble of entering a program, there's no way to save your work. (oh well, what do you expect)

[scarnie]

To anyone holding back because it doesn't yet have the particular game you long for...

Go ahead an buy it. It's great. Well done, and (while I have no relationship with the developer), I just think we should encourage the developer with our pocketbook.

So I bought it last night. It brings me back to 1983, Senior Year in High School, when I worked at Leon's computer store, selling videogame consoles and computers like the Vic-20, C64, Coleco Adam, TI-994/A, Atari 400/800, IBM PC Jr, etc., and then came the Mac!

Of course, we should feel free to contact them with recommendations, but do so as a paying customer. Just my opinion.

Remember when we all complained that the top selling apps were Fart apps? Now something comes along, that's sophisticated, elegant, and extensible.

Also, it was delayed by Apple (so the developer has been missing out on revenue), and it's more than $0.99. Imagine the lesson to both Apple and other developers if a $4.99 app can reach the top? Plus, it would show Apple they should have approved it long ago.

Thanks for all the great feedback and comments. It has brought back so many memories even for ourselves. And just seeing the discussions about Atari, Amiga, C64 - it has had a great effect of those old school-yard discussions (or arguments) :) We've got a google form going to submit your requests here (http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?hl=en&formkey=dDlDSkVPVWxHelZnS05Dbk5lU2djRWc6MA..).

I was thinking we could try a poll approach, such as with $100 to spend:

Say we list 10 games and expect 5 to go in the next pack, we'll put a poll where you can spend your $100 on any title, as you wish. The 5 titles with the most money goes into the next pack. Just an idea, but hopefully the most active fans will get what they are looking for.

[firewood]

This just in: You can access the BASIC interpreter via a simple 'hack':

Tried it. Works.

But does anyone really think that this "back door" will survive the next update without being eliminated (if not sooner)? Better buy your copy now and make a backup of the .ipa file.

[deputy_doofy]

I didn't read all the pages, but the BASIC interpreter is in there. The trick is to run a game, turn on the keyboard, and push the reset button. I even tested good old POKE 53281,1 to turn the screen white.

[CQd44]

You people should try some malicious commands to see if they do any damage.

[compuguy1088]

I just downloaded Google Voice from the App store.

EDIT: It didn't finish downloading, and is no longer there.

Ok.....but shouldn't this be in another thread?

[compuguy1088]

This just in: You can access the BASIC interpreter via a simple 'hack':

http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/09/06/quick-app-c64-commodore-64-emulator-iphone-hack-basic/

(via Daring Fireball (http://daringfireball.net/))

Yea, I did mention that the basic interpreter was an easter egg, several pages ago!

[Lynxpro]

From purely personal experience, I did know someone with an Atari 8bit, which is much more than I can say about the Oric, Dragon, Enterprise, Jupiter, etc.


That's okay. All of my friends families purchased C64s because they were involved in massive pirating ring at the time [yet the Atari 8-bitters were always accused of piracy; I don't believe at all it was anywhere near proportionately what was going on with the C64 user base]. I wanted an Atari 800XL but then the whole game industry crashed, Atari was in doubt, and then the ST line came out and so I asked for that and my parents bought the 1040ST for me. At the time, early 1986, it looked like Amiga was going to crash because it was deemed too expensive for the standard memory and they didn't recover until the A500 started selling well. Looking back, I really wish the ST and Amiga lines would've been merged following the out-of-court settlement between Atari and Amiga. I have a feeling that such a platform would've survived to this day and so there'd be a serious third platform challenger for those who detest Microsoft and are sometimes fed up with how Apple does things.

I should also mention that I didn't meet any Atari 8-bit owners until I joined the local combined Atari users group which catered to both the 8 bit and 16 bit owners.


I was an AVID Atari fan! I owned the 2600 and the 5200. The Atari 800 was my first computer. I can remember all-night sessions logged into pirate BBSs via a 300 baud modem, downloading every disc image in sight! :) Later, I was a huge fan of the Atari ST line. I met Jack Tramiel and his sons multiple times at various Atari user conventions. In fact, the Atari ST is what led me to become a Macintosh enthusiast...


Don't get me started on that bunch. When "you" - meaning "I" - was only 14 years old and was asking pertinent questions of the CEO at the shareholders meeting and you have the majority of the present shareholders on your side and putting the CEO on defensive over boneheaded business decisions that they've made, there's something truly wrong with that picture. That and making the Time Warner rep goons look dump in the process with their $2k business suits.


David Small ("Gadgets by Small") invented the "Magic Sac" Macintosh emulator for the Atari ST, I became an immediate fan. I took to sharing my enthusiasm on both Compuserve and GEnie and, ultimately, was invited by David Small to be an official (paid) product support specialist for the Magic Sac and, later, the Spectre 128 and Spectre GCR. Back then, a color Mac was what I really wanted but the the full-blown color Macintosh II system was $10,000!!! Yikes! But, eventually, Atari Corporation started coming apart at the seams and Apple released less expensive color models. When the timing was right, I purchased my first real Mac.... The Macintosh LC in 1990 or so.


Ah yes, "the Magic Sac, turns your Atari into a Mac!" And with that, the Atari STacy became the very first Macintosh portable computer. I bet not too many people on here know that little tidbit.

I didn't go Mac - and only partially at that - until 2003. After being burned when Atari failed, I swallowed my pride and went PC because Apple looked like it was going the way of Atari and Commodore at the time. Thankfully, Apple has rebounded but it still cheeses me off that there's no Atari or [credible] Amiga option today.


Yeah, it's odd to hear people complain about paying $1 a day for mobile broadband... when back in the day, we had 300 baud modems that would take several hours to download a 1MB picture... at $5 an hour on CIS !!


And you were glad if the nude pics were actually pics [scans, not "artistic" re-creations] in 16 colors! Pre-emptively shut it, former Amigans, with your fancy 32 color graphics and HAM trickeries! :)


Thanks for all the great feedback and comments. It has brought back so many memories even for ourselves. And just seeing the discussions about Atari, Amiga, C64 - it has had a great effect of those old school-yard discussions (or arguments) :) We've got a google form going to submit your requests here (http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?hl=en&formkey=dDlDSkVPVWxHelZnS05Dbk5lU2djRWc6MA..).


Well, since I don't own - shudder! - an iPhone [yet], I don't think I should contribute to that link but any Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts title would be awesome. I'm still trying to picture how Ballblazer would work on the iPhone.


Others have mentioned Jeff Minter. The man has been developing stuff for the Xbox 360. He hasn't come to his senses yet about the PS3/PSP so who knows what he's up to with the iPhone. I guess I should stop typing and go over to his website.

[gnagy]

I guess it's out of stock already. I was not able to download the app.

[MSL]

Looks like the App has been pulled again (from the UK store at least)! :eek::mad:

[The Phazer]

Looks like the App has been pulled again (from the UK store at least)! :eek::mad:

Engadget claims it's been pulled due to the Easter egg interpreter - http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/08/apple-pulls-c64-app-after-manomio-shenanigans-revealed/

It was pretty stupid to make it so easy to find and become such common knowledge.

Phazer

EDIT: Confirmation from the dev, who has pulled this post since. But Google sees ALL- http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:A_bDkGGiY6wJ:www.manomio.com/+manomio+important+update&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a :-)

[jweinraub]

I want the BASIC functionality. Why Apple allow terminal emulator apps like iSSH and not allow BASIC emulator like this one :confused:

Because you program something on another machine other than the iPod/iPhone. I do think it is ridiculous and had I known the hack was available I would had bought it yesterday before it was pulled. I didn't get it because I had thought BASIC was gone.

[tbrinkma]

There is no way for Commodore BASIC to run malicious code in this emulator - it's a sandbox in a sandbox :)

Sure, because it's *impossible* to write a buffer overflow in C64 BASIC. :rolleyes:

Seriously, if you have the know-how and motivation, you can blow through just about any sandbox with code *intended* to do so. It just takes the knowledge of a weak spot in the sandbox's walls.

[The Phazer]

Sure, because it's *impossible* to write a buffer overflow in C64 BASIC. :rolleyes:

Seriously, if you have the know-how and motivation, you can blow through just about any sandbox with code *intended* to do so. It just takes the knowledge of a weak spot in the sandbox's walls.

Quite. And the iPhone's security historically has been... well... not very good. There are almost certainly holes.

Phazer

[mrod]

Seriously, if you have the know-how and motivation, you can blow through just about any sandbox with code *intended* to do so. It just takes the knowledge of a weak spot in the sandbox's walls.

But it's not technically a sandbox, it's an emulated processor and hardware. It's not just an interpreter it's a complete emulation, including memory space emulation.

There is no way to run native ARM code using the 6502 code, even though the original ARM processor instruction set *WAS* based upon a simplified 6502 instruction set.

[oldwatery]

Apple have pulled it.
The hack was in an Easter egg.
What a bone headed move on the part of the developer. :eek:

[twilson]

Come on Amiga games!

1024 colors! Dedicated graphics chips! 512kB system RAM!...

Let's party like it's 1989!

What happened to the other 3072 colours? :D

[NightFox]

I can live with out CBM BASIC V2.0 just as long as when it comes back to the App Store it's got Compunet access at emulated 1200/75 Baud so I don't have to use the Internet anymore.

MUD, anyone?

[Lynxpro]

Does anyone know if they used the open source code to mimic CRT screen flicker? It looks like they did...

[Chimpy]

Does anyone know if they used the open source code to mimic CRT screen flicker? It looks like they did...

I was wondering the same thing. If they did, that's awesome beyond words :).