Apple's Focus on Games: Madden NFL 2010, Nova, Assassin's Creed, Riddim Ribbon

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/09/apples-focus-on-games-madden-nfl-2010-nova-assassins-creed-riddim-ribbon/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/09/09/145423-apple-ipod-sept-09-1318-rm-eng_500.jpg

Upcoming Nova, a Halo-like shooter. Photo via Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/09/live-from-apples-its-only-rock-and-roll-event/)
At today's "It's Only Rock and Roll" (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/09/live-coverage-of-its-only-rock-and-roll-media-event/) media event, Apple focused on games for a significant portion of the event. Apple's Phil Schiller even directly compared (http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/09/live-from-apples-its-only-rock-and-roll-event/) the iPod touch to the Sony PSP and Nintendo DS. And people are starting to see what a great gaming device this is. When you think about the companies that came before us... when you played those other systems, they seemed so cool, but now when you look at them, they don't stack up against the iPod touch.Schiller then invited developers to demonstrate some new games that hadn't been seen before.

- Assassin's Creed 2 - simultaneous release with other platforms
- Riddim Ribbon - a racing/music game
- Nova - described as Halo-like first person shooter
- Madden NFL 2010 - detailed look and video (http://toucharcade.com/2009/09/09/detailed-look-at-eas-madden-nfl-2010-for-iphone/) at TouchArcade

The newly introduced iPod touch also shares the faster processor and improved 3D hardware of the iPhone 3GS, making it even more competitive. While some may doubt that the iPod touch would be a serious threat to dedicated handheld devices, Sony has already made several steps (http://toucharcade.com/2009/08/19/sony-bringing-fieldrunners-minigore-hero-of-sparta-to-psp/) to better compete with the iPhone and iPod touch, and has even recruited popular iPhone developers to port their games to their new platform.

Article Link: Apple's Focus on Games: Madden NFL 2010, Nova, Assassin's Creed, Riddim Ribbon (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/09/apples-focus-on-games-madden-nfl-2010-nova-assassins-creed-riddim-ribbon/)

[spillproof]

So could the touch eventually take over the PSP and the like for handheld gaming systems?

[thegoldenmackid]

So could the touch eventually take over the PSP and the like for handheld gaming systems?

I doubt it. There are some limitations with the touch screen.

[Dagless]

I had to laugh at that comparison. 22k games vs the DS/PSP game figures seems like such a figure to brag about. But bloody hell, nothing I've played on the iPod Touch comes close to being as good as the really good DS/PSP titles. It's okay as a casual platform but the lack of buttons and lack of depth in these games is turn-off.

Pokemon, Mario, Metroid, Metal Gear (and not an on-rail shooter :rolleyes:), Monster Hunter, Tekken, Final Fantasy... There's nothing like that in that 22k list of games.

[otis123]

that was a really weird stab at Sony and Nintendo, I guess apple is getting serious about gaming, maybe.

[billysea]

I had to laugh at that comparison. 22k games vs the DS/PSP game figures seems like such a figure to brag about. But bloody hell, nothing I've played on the iPod Touch comes close to being as good as the really good DS/PSP titles. It's okay as a casual platform but the lack of buttons and lack of depth in these games is turn-off.

Pokemon, Mario, Metroid, Metal Gear (and not an on-rail shooter :rolleyes:), Monster Hunter, Tekken, Final Fantasy... There's nothing like that in that 22k list of games.

Agree. I love iPhone/iTouch gaming, but they are two different world and I like them both in different ways. So Apple, please don't compare them. It's like comparing Xbox gaming to Facebook gaming.

[aygie]

The PSP is miles better than the iPod touch as gaming device IMO. Quality over quantity any day.

[Dagless]

It's like comparing Xbox gaming to Facebook gaming.
Brilliant and true :D.
I do play a few games on my iPod but they really are nothing compared to DS, PSP or GBA games.

[BongoBanger]

I had to laugh at that comparison. 22k games vs the DS/PSP game figures seems like such a figure to brag about. But bloody hell, nothing I've played on the iPod Touch comes close to being as good as the really good DS/PSP titles. It's okay as a casual platform but the lack of buttons and lack of depth in these games is turn-off.

Pokemon, Mario, Metroid, Metal Gear (and not an on-rail shooter :rolleyes:), Monster Hunter, Tekken, Final Fantasy... There's nothing like that in that 22k list of games.

Totally agree. Quantity is not quality - the iPod Touch's games are five minute fillers in general.

[cameronfield]

I honestly dont think the iphone/ipod touch will ever come close to the DS/PSP - for multiple reasons:

Price
iphone game makers plan on selling the games for $5 or $10, so there is much less incentive for them to make a game the fully immerses the player. They are on a much tighter budget, and dont spend near as much time on the game as PSP/DS developers. On the other hand, DS/PSP games cost $30+, therefore the developers can put a lot more time/money into making them great

Controls
Without a single d-pad/joystick, gaming on the iphone can only go so far. I'm sure developers will push the controls to the max and surprise us all, but in the end gamers will feel much more at home with physical controls. Sidescrolling games are easy, but I'm anxious to see how that FPS game 'nova' plans on overcoming this hurdle.

Device dedication
This sounds weird, but let me explain: the one problem I've always had with the iphone being my "all in one device" is interruption. If I'm using it as a GPS in my car, that means I cant listen to music/change what's playing, cant browse web, cant text, cant email, etc. etc. (this is assuming im not always driving since sometimes my friend might need a GPS and we could use my iphone [which I dont have]). SO say I'm using it as a dedicated GPS in my car and someone calls - well I either choose to miss the next few turns or miss the call. This sucks, and this is why I will most likely use my Garmin until it explodes or doesn't work anymore.

Same with gaming - if I'm in the middle of a hardcore battle and a friend calls I have to either pause the game (kill the mood) or miss the call...this is why sometimes I see all in one devices as not so much of a good thing.

[diamond.g]

Hmm, the health/sheild meter looks like a direct rip from Halo. I wonder if Bungie/MS is going to say something.

[Loonytik]

Didn't they say that Madden was available in the app store right now? Or, is it not compatible with the iphone?

[adammull]

I can't be the only one that could care less about gaming on the iPhone. I mean jeewhiz, a ******* version of Madden. Awesome. I like a little bit of synergy, but this is getting crazy. I don't mind having a few devices. Games to me require a dedicated gaming device. If I wanted to play games, I would buy a PSP.

I'll stick with Paper Toss thanks.

[AAPLaday]

Looking forward to seeing more of Nova. The thing about the Iphone being a gaming device though is the fact that i don't own either a PSP or DS lite and have no plans to. Having games on my phone though is really handy as i never leave the house without my mobile so i have access to them whenever i want.

[capoeirista]

If they want to provide a serious gaming platform the battery life has to be better. Just playing peggle for 30 mins or so doesn't leave much time for talking on my 3G...

Or a replaceable battery? Just a thought....:p

[tabasco70]

One day the touch will beat the PSP, as long as people are fine with the touch screen controls.

[Dagless]

The thing about the Iphone being a gaming device though is the fact that i don't own either a PSP or DS lite and have no plans to.
Then you're missing out on a lot of amazing games. I can take or leave the home consoles but the DS and PSP have been amazing. They've found the perfect middleground between console experience and handheld gaming.

Hmm, the health/sheild meter looks like a direct rip from Halo. I wonder if Bungie/MS is going to say something.
Using that logic would the people who Bungie ripped off for Halo have something to say? ;)
It's a very common type of counter. It's been in games before and after Halo. Why would they have anything to say about it?

[Speedy2]

Totally agree. Quantity is not quality - the iPod Touch's games are five minute fillers in general.

This is the same kind of misunderstanding of the market that led to the unexpected success of the Wii. Most people don't want much more than time fillers. They don't have the time to spend on hours of "serious" handheld gaming. But they have money and are willing to spend it on some easy, simple games.

Standalone handheld gaming gadgets will die, because their market will be too small in the long run and everyone will carry a device that can do the pretty much the same stuff anyway. Also, gaming developers will focus on multi-purpose devices and neglect DS, PSP etc

[BongoBanger]

This is the same kind of misunderstanding of the market that led to the unexpected success of the Wii. Most people don't want much more than time fillers. They don't have the time to spend on hours of "serious" handheld gaming. But they have money and are willing to spend it on some easy, simple games.

Standalone handheld gaming gadgets will die, because their market will be too small in the long run and everyone will carry a device that can do the pretty much the same stuff anyway. Also, gaming developers will focus on multi-purpose devices and neglect DS, PSP etc

Sorry but that's nonsense and the misunderstanding is yours - people don't generally buy an iPod Touch because it's a games machine, they buy it as a PMP which has games as a side function.

There will always be a market for more in depth titles and there will always be machines that support that market.

[Dagless]

Standalone handheld gaming gadgets will die, because their market will be too small in the long run and everyone will carry a device that can do the pretty much the same stuff anyway. Also, gaming developers will focus on multi-purpose devices and neglect DS, PSP etc

So even with the rampant sales of the iPod Touch and iPhone developers still aren't abandoning the dedicated machines? Did people abandon their DSLRs and dedicated cameras and settle on Apple's (fairly bland) offering? Almost 10 years of having camera phones and dedicated cameras aren't dead...
If anything standalone devices are adapting. The PSP Go is heading the route of pure DD content, and the DSi has added SD card, download support and a camera too.

If the iPod was a good gaming platform then we might see some changes. But it kind of isn't, so it's relagated to nothing more than "phone games".

[stomachdoc]

I think Apple has something here. My kids have spent way more time playing "rope 'n fly lite" (price: free) then they have with any of the games on their brand new Nintendo DSi. They constantly have their iPhones or touch at their side, while the Nintendos are collecting dust. I think it is only a matter of time until we see preferential game development for the iPhone/touch platform and the DS and psp platforms become irrelevant

[diamond.g]

Then you're missing out on a lot of amazing games. I can take or leave the home consoles but the DS and PSP have been amazing. They've found the perfect middleground between console experience and handheld gaming.


Using that logic would the people who Bungie ripped off for Halo have something to say? ;)
It's a very common type of counter. It's been in games before and after Halo. Why would they have anything to say about it?

True, for some odd reason that game just looks a whole lot like Halo. I wonder if there will be mulitplayer with good matchmaking...

[Chupa Chupa]

D/Ling Madden now. It's on sale for $7.99 until kickoff tomorrow. It weights in at 102MB. I'd imagine it's got to be at least as "good" as Madden for DS, which is about 3x more expensive. I guess I'll find out in a few minutes.


Edit: OK just played a set. The graphics are good but the game play just isn't the same w/o a real joystick. I've only played a for one set so maybe I'll get used to it but right now I'd love my $ back so I could use it for the DS version.

[backtothefuture]

I also agree that gaming on the touch is mediocre at best, but this makes me wonder if this a trial run of how well the MacTablet will do. Games really put the user in a constant hands on experience, which is far different from the photo resizing and other, simple touch moves people have made on their iPhones/iPod touches. I'm one of those people who still cant decide if I really want an iPhone because it has no physical buttons...I know most people have happily switched and love their iPhones/touches.
Like I said, it makes me wonder if Apple is watching the user experience of these Games to make appropriate changes to the Tablet.

[MH01]

I think Apple has something here. My kids have spent way more time playing "rope 'n fly lite" (price: free) then they have with any of the games on their brand new Nintendo DSi. They constantly have their iPhones or touch at their side, while the Nintendos are collecting dust. I think it is only a matter of time until we see preferential game development for the iPhone/touch platform and the DS and psp platforms become irrelevant

And what games to you have on the DSi. I find kids are attracted more to the actual games then the device.

[AppleThis&That]

D/Ling Madden now. It's on sale for $7.99 until kickoff tomorrow. It weights in at 102MB. I'd imagine it's got to be at least as "good" as Madden for DS, which is about 3x more expensive. I guess I'll find out in a few minutes.


Edit: OK just played a set. The graphics are good but the game play just isn't the same w/o a real joystick. I've only played a for one set so maybe I'll get used to it but right now I'd love my $ back so I could use it for the DS version.From watching the Madden video, It seems that your fingers could slip on the virtual controller when running for instance. What was your experience with this?

[LagunaSol]

It's like comparing Xbox gaming to Facebook gaming.

Word. Facebook doesn't RROD. The comparison is completely invalid. :p

[MH01]

The graph apple showed made me laugh hard. I actually read it as the number of ***** games on each platform, then it makes sense.

I love my consoles, I think I have owned most of them, and by far the worst controls are that of the iphone/iphone touch. without the physical controller and buttons is just damn ackward. Has anyone tried duke nukem 3d? Garbage. The touch is great for simple games that involve basic controls but not for any type of serious gaming. Though as others have commented people do not but these for games, of all my mates who have one, noone plays games. I think apple is fooling themselves if they think that the touch is a gaming device.

[n459umb4786ers]

Do you think it's possible Apple will focus on games for their Macs next? Maybe they will after their next even in October.

[ghostface147]

I don't think games will be 100% effective until a gamepad of somesorts can be added to the iPhone dock connector.

[ckurt25]

A couple of thoughts...

The Nova / Halo like game looks good. I haven't played many FPS games on my iPhone 3Gs but did try the lite version of Terminator Salvation and thought the controls were pretty good and actually better than expected.

For games like Madden and heck, any other game that isn't really using the accelerometer, why can't Apple (or a 3rd party) develop a game pad that plugs in and/or uses bluetooth? I remember when OS 3 came out they were talking about hardware that could plugged into the phone. The example I remember was the cuff thing to take your blood pressure. The iPhone was used to display the pressure. So why not a game pad / joystick? I could pack it my laptop bag when I travel and when I'm on a flight I could pull it out for an hour or two of game play. Which brings me to my last point....

My only problem with games, applications, movies on my iPhone is they all kill the battery. Please Apple, do something about that. I shouldn't run the risk of completely draining the battery if I've had pretty light use for email, calendar and regular apps then watch 2 hours of video on my iPhone. I have one of those Kensington mini battery packs and it works good but I'd hope I could make it longer without a recharge.

[mdriftmeyer]

Buy as much Tissue Stock as possible! The kids are crying about no iPod Touch camera.

[Dagless]

Buy as much Tissue Stock as possible! The kids are crying about no iPod Touch camera.

... Wrong thread much.

[twoodcc]

at the current rate, i don't think the ipod touch will really replace the psp. games will have to change a little before it does

[Axl Rose]

anyone who thinks the ipod touch will replace the psp and replace the DS are blind....the app store has MAYBE 25 good games.....

[Shiner]

Do you think it's possible Apple will focus on games for their Macs next? Maybe they will after their next even in October.

Apple can not focus on games for their macs. None of their computers have decent video cards. They have no desktop computers in their line up.

[Chupa Chupa]

From watching the Madden video, It seems that your fingers could slip on the virtual controller when running for instance. What was your experience with this?

That and also because of the lack of tactile response it's hard to control player. Suffice to say (sadly) some games should not be ported to the iPhone. The virtual controller is a good idea that just doesn't work in the context of the game because the action happens so fast.

[str1f3]

That and also because of the lack of tactile response it's hard to control player. Suffice to say (sadly) some games should not be ported to the iPhone. The virtual controller is a good idea that just doesn't work in the context of the game because the action happens so fast.

I don't know what you mean. I've played Modern Combat and the controls seem just fine to me. The same goes for other games as well which you wouldn't think would transfer well to touch screens. Also controllers are in development.

Contrary to what others may say it is a serious rival to the DS and PSP. The reason games aren't that deep right now is because there is only so much space on the iPhone. Once you start seeing 128GB iPhones (in two years) you will start to see those types of games. As it is how many hardcore portable gamers are there out there? Less than 1% of people who play games overall?

[Dagless]

Contrary to what others may say it is a serious rival to the DS and PSP. The reason games aren't that deep right now is because there is only so much space on the iPhone. Once you start seeing 128GB iPhones (in two years) you will start to see those types of games. As it is how many hardcore portable gamers are there out there? Less than 1% of people who play games overall?

Size has little to do with it. Final Fantasy I on the PSP is only 200mb, Street Fighter Alpha 3 is only ~90mb. Pokemon (some of the biggest RPGs going) range from 8-128mb and take hundreds of hours to complete. DS games max at 128mb, so a 128gb iPhone isn't going to help much.
No, more than 1% of people who play games are hardcore gamers. Console sales figures would be so very different if true. Nice backpeddling though.

[str1f3]

Size has little to do with it. Final Fantasy I on the PSP is only 200mb, Street Fighter Alpha 3 is only ~90mb. Pokemon (some of the biggest RPGs going) range from 8-128mb and take hundreds of hours to complete. DS games max at 128mb, so a 128gb iPhone isn't going to help much.

Street Fighter Alpha 3 is not an incredibly deep game (only in terms of frames and I doubt that means much on the PSP) and I'm a fighting game fan. Fighting games can be done for the iPhone as has been proven by Gameloft (just released one) and Namco suggesting that they will be bringing Tekken to the iPhone. As for Final Fantasy I on the PSP, it would be only 200mb considering it was developed for the Famicon in the 80s. You bring up a game developer like Square who exists in a different category. Square took a few years to come out with a FF for the PSP. Even then it was old FF games. Then they released this year a new FF game (Dissidia: Final Fantasy). The size of the game is 1.15GB. Square was testing out the waters with the PSP. Square is now developing games for the iPhone but they are again testing out the waters. Eventually you will see an FF on the iPhone.

If you want to make an argument for FFI, there is proof that there is some deep games on the iPhone with games like Myst (very deep and 500mb in size) or the just recently released Madden. EDIT: Also Zenonia has over 40+ hours of gameplay. These types of games will come. Right now a majority of games are by indie developers on the App Store. Indie developers can't afford to spend the amount of time and cost to develop a very deep game, just a fun one. Now Rockstar, Square, and Ubisoft are getting their feet wet by developing games for the iPhone. Once that they see there is a very lucrative market you will see their franchise games.


BTW, the UMD disc that was developed for the PSP holds 1.8 GB. There are games that make use of that space. I've never used a DS so I can't comment on it. If you have a game which is supposed to have nice graphics and deep gameplay, it will significantly raise the file size.


No, more than 1% of people who play games are hardcore gamers. Console sales figures would be so very different if true. Nice backpeddling though.

That's not what I said. How many hardcore portable gamers are there? Answer: Probably less than 1% of all gamers (including casual gamers).

[LoftyTheMetroid]

Hey all! Being primarily a follower of the game industry as well as a huge Apple fan, I thought I might check out the discussion on Apple's foray into the world of interactive entertainment...

My opinion on the matter is a little complex. Suffice to say, though, while I think Apple will find success, it will not be at the expense of Nintendo or Sony/Microsoft. I think Apple's venture could be compared to YouTube vs. the film industry, both financially and qualitatively. Obviously, the two are almost like comparing apples and oranges, which is why I don't think there will be a "winner" per se, just different markets with different aims.

I do believe Sony will take a large hit from Apple though, at least in the handheld department.

Microsoft will clash with Apple, obviously, due to their need to attempt to dominate every computer/electronic market. I don't see Microsoft succeeding in the "Video Game YouTube" market, though, and will just continue doing what they've been doing up till now. Project Natal, in my mind, demonstrates Microsoft's lack of understanding about how these things work, and why they won't "get it".

I really don't want to see Apple become aggressive towards Nintendo. Satoru Iwata has mentioned he loves Apple and uses Macs and Apple products for all of his personal needs, but will not stand down should Apple force him to show his hand. I actually see Nintendo "sharing" the "Video Game YouTube" market with Apple in a sense. However, I think Nintendo's core philosophy and understanding of the medium and market will prove their immortality in the industry. As progressive and forward-thinking as Apple is, at least when it comes to games, Nintendo is always thinking two steps ahead of everyone else.

Totally agree. Quantity is not quality - the iPod Touch's games are five minute fillers in general.

This is the same kind of misunderstanding of the market that led to the unexpected success of the Wii. Most people don't want much more than time fillers. They don't have the time to spend on hours of "serious" handheld gaming. But they have money and are willing to spend it on some easy, simple games.

There's another element you're forgetting, though. (And I think it's what leads to a lot of misconceptions about the quality of Wii titles compared to 360/PS3 games.) The 'quality' factor, in addition to 'five-minute gameplay', is what makes the Wii stand out. A lot of people seem to take for granted that games with short play times must obviously lack depth or playability compared to games that demand ridiculous time investments, but the two elements are mutually exclusive.

Games like Brain Training, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, the upcoming New Super Mario Bros. Wii, etc. are all good, well-designed games, in addition to providing short gameplay times.

Many iPhone games, however, are not good. There's an excess of quantity without quality, and I don't think that's enough to succeed. Really, the only exceptional game I've played has been Rolando, and even that has obvious inspiration from games like Loco Roco.

Contrary to what others may say it is a serious rival to the DS and PSP. The reason games aren't that deep right now is because there is only so much space on the iPhone. Once you start seeing 128GB iPhones (in two years) you will start to see those types of games. As it is how many hardcore portable gamers are there out there? Less than 1% of people who play games overall?

Consider that the Nintendo DS alone has about twice the install base of both the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 COMBINED.

Nearly 110 million DS units and 60 million PSP units sold worldwide... I'd say that percentage is a lot more than 1%.

Also, what raggedjimmi said.

If you have a game which is supposed to have nice graphics and deep gameplay, it will significantly raise the file size.

The rest of your argument doesn't make sense. A good game is not defined simply by its graphical fidelity. Good gameplay is what matters, and is why certain games can stand the test of time.

Fortunately, good gameplay doesn't require large amounts of storage space. That's like saying for a movie to have a really good plot, it needs to fit it on a Blu-Ray disc.

[zw-gator]

This is really only the first step. While the graphics blow, this basically takes all the heat off Apple having to redesign the iPhone and they can simply ship more units via processor updates and thus, better games.

This is going to be a HUGE cash cow.

[pmjoe]

I was following the live online coverage of the Apple event and this games crap was perfect timing for a bathroom break.

Somewhere in my statement above is a big hint to Apple.

[str1f3]

Hey all! Being primarily a follower of the game industry as well as a huge Apple fan, I thought I might check out the discussion on Apple's foray into the world of interactive entertainment...

My opinion on the matter is a little complex. Suffice to say, though, while I think Apple will find success, it will not be at the expense of Nintendo or Sony/Microsoft. I think Apple's venture could be compared to YouTube vs. the film industry, both financially and qualitatively. Obviously, the two are almost like comparing apples and oranges, which is why I don't think there will be a "winner" per se, just different markets with different aims.

I do believe Sony will take a large hit from Apple though, at least in the handheld department.

May be you should read this:Apple, slowing sales cause 66% profit loss for Nintendo (http://www.examiner.com/x-5364-Apple-Gear-Examiner~y2009m8d2-Apple-slowing-sales-cause-66-profit-loss-for-Nintendo)

I really don't want to see Apple become aggressive towards Nintendo. Satoru Iwata has mentioned he loves Apple and uses Macs and Apple products for all of his personal needs, but will not stand down should Apple force him to show his hand. I actually see Nintendo "sharing" the "Video Game YouTube" market with Apple in a sense. However, I think Nintendo's core philosophy and understanding of the medium and market will prove their immortality in the industry. As progressive and forward-thinking as Apple is, at least when it comes to games, Nintendo is always thinking two steps ahead of everyone else.

This is business. By virtue of the fact the OSX mobile can play games they are competitors.

There's another element you're forgetting, though. (And I think it's what leads to a lot of misconceptions about the quality of Wii titles compared to 360/PS3 games.) The 'quality' factor, in addition to 'five-minute gameplay', is what makes the Wii stand out. A lot of people seem to take for granted that games with short play times must obviously lack depth or playability compared to games that demand ridiculous time investments, but the two elements are mutually exclusive.

Games like Brain Training, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, the upcoming New Super Mario Bros. Wii, etc. are all good, well-designed games, in addition to providing short gameplay times.


Many iPhone games, however, are not good. There's an excess of quantity without quality, and I don't think that's enough to succeed. Really, the only exceptional game I've played has been Rolando, and even that has obvious inspiration from games like Loco Roco.

Really the only good game is Rolando? Maybe you didn't see this:
Sony targets iPhone developers and low app prices for PSPgo (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/08/14/sony_targets_iphone_developers_and_low_app_prices_for_pspgo.html)
-or this Microsoft Offering iPhone Developers “Buckets of Money” to go Zune?

You can say that the iPhone doesn't have any good games but you are almost alone in that regard. Also App Store sales would say something different. It's funny that you can see Wii Fit as a great game with some unbelievable replay value but you don't think an iPhone game can have that yet I'm still playing Tap Tap Revenge a year after it has come out and it's also free.

Consider that the Nintendo DS alone has about twice the install base of both the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 COMBINED.

Nearly 110 million DS units and 60 million PSP units sold worldwide... I'd say that percentage is a lot more than 1%.

Also, what raggedjimmi said.

Read first link. Nintendo does not cater to the hardcore gamer. The DS is a portable, casual gamers device. Nothing more. Some developers have made deep games but it is not Nintendo's focus or goal. One of the main reason the PSP was created was because it catered to the hardcore gamer and 'til this day pales in comparison in terms of sales to the DS because the majority of purchasers of these devices are casual gamers.



The rest of your argument doesn't make sense. A good game is not defined simply by its graphical fidelity. Good gameplay is what matters, and is why certain games can stand the test of time.

Fortunately, good gameplay doesn't require large amounts of storage space. That's like saying for a movie to have a really good plot, it needs to fit it on a Blu-Ray disc.


It is a ridiculous idea that graphics has no part in what gamers think of games. It is the first thing gamers ask about. Now gameplay is the most important part but when I look forward to future gaming on the iPhone I don't think of good games with 8-bit graphics. I think of games that have both graphics and gameplay. To do that requires large file sizes.

Now raggedjimi mentions Final Fantasy I (which has a small file size) and it took years for Square to even have a FF on the PSP. The first FF they released for the PSP was a mini-movie. Square just announced they are developing for the iPhone. There will eventually be a FF on the iPhone. Other major companies are following suit. Rockstar is releasing GTA on all three platforms.

The examples of games that were being mentioned were 10-25 years old with the exception of Pokemon (which is a kid's game). raggedjimmi also mentions SFA3. Well I tell that Namco says that they are developing Tekken for the iPhone.

[kcmac]

Anyone know how much Madden will cost after tomorrow night?

[Dagless]

Really the only good game is Rolando? Maybe you didn't see this:
Sony targets iPhone developers and low app prices for PSPgo (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/08/14/sony_targets_iphone_developers_and_low_app_prices_for_pspgo.html)
-or this Microsoft Offering iPhone Developers “Buckets of Money” to go Zune?
Don't Apple also have a fund for iPhone app developers?

Read first link. Nintendo does not cater to the hardcore gamer. The DS is a portable, casual gamers device. Nothing more.
That's a silly thing to post. Even first party Nintendo titles cater to the hardcore crowd (Metroid, Zelda, Advance Wars). And then 3rd party titles like Final Fantasy, Castlevania, Nanostray, GTA (just looking at my own collection) are hardly casual titles either.

It is a ridiculous idea that graphics has no part in what gamers think of games.
Then why is the DS outselling the PSP. Why did the Gameboy outsell every competitor it ever had. Why did the Amiga flop against the 16bit consoles. Why is the Wii outselling every other console ever. Why did the PS2 outsell everything last gen?
Comparative graphics actually do mean nothing. And the DS has proved that so long as the game is legible it doesn't matter the graphic quality. New Mario on the DS has 2D sprites, prerendered 3D and the occasional 3D model and looks basic compared to even Yoshi's Island, but it's one of the best selling DS titles.

Now raggedjimi mentions Final Fantasy I (which has a small file size) and it took years for Square to even have a FF on the PSP
But the dev time has nothing to do with the file size. You were making a point that iPhone games aren't big because of filesize problems, but the smallest iPod for a while has been the 8gb model. Yet there have been no big games. Early PSP games were also very large - look at Monster Hunter Freedom, the 2 GTA's, Final Fantasy Tactics or any of the other ports. Again all out very early in the PSP's life.
Of note the early PSP GTA games are much bigger and have more depth than the DS port the iPhone is getting.

The first FF they released for the PSP was a mini-movie. Square just announced they are developing for the iPhone. There will eventually be a FF on the iPhone. Other major companies are following suit. Rockstar is releasing GTA on all three platforms.
They likely will. But it won't be for the better simply because of the controls, which you can't change on an iPhone.

The examples of games that were being mentioned were 10-25 years old with the exception of Pokemon (which is a kid's game). raggedjimmi also mentions SFA3. Well I tell that Namco says that they are developing Tekken for the iPhone.
Pokemon isn't just a kids game in the same way Mario or Zelda aren't. Have you played it? It's the simple most customisable and deep RPG on the market today. And Tekken on the iPhone, again it will be limited by the controls. You can't get pixel precise controls without a digital input (ie a dpad, face buttons), so chances are that will be simplified to be easily controlled.

And that's the problem with every iPhone game I've ever played. Compromises are made to get an established franchise or genre working with only touch controls.

[Speedy2]

Sorry but that's nonsense and the misunderstanding is yours - people don't generally buy an iPod Touch because it's a games machine, they buy it as a PMP which has games as a side function.

There will always be a market for more in depth titles and there will always be machines that support that market.


You don't get it. People buy a capable iPod/iPhone anyway. They can play games with it. They won't buy another gadget for that purpose anymore. That "sure" market will die, just as the PDA market did.

The iPhone is already more powerful than PSP and DS. Give the game developers another year or two and you'll see "in-depth" games and hardware add-ons that will make those dedicated devices look like old junk.

[Speedy2]

anyone who thinks the ipod touch will replace the psp and replace the DS are blind....the app store has MAYBE 25 good games.....

And you really think that's all there will ever be? Or what?

I wonder who is blind here ...
The major game companies are just starting to develop big budget games.

[LoftyTheMetroid]

I'll try not to say anything redundant. (Thanks jimmi!)

May be you should read this:Apple, slowing sales cause 66% profit loss for Nintendo (http://www.examiner.com/x-5364-Apple-Gear-Examiner~y2009m8d2-Apple-slowing-sales-cause-66-profit-loss-for-Nintendo)

Do you actually follow these sorts of things, or did you just google for a news story that supported your argument?

Any major losses in profit in the past year have usually been due to the Wii having a weaker line-up (mostly because Nintendo's internal studios released their major titles the years before, and third parties not having stepped up to fill the gap in the interim), an overall flailing Japanese game market, and currency exchanges.

Most of these profit losses are typical and expected, and Nintendo already has plans for the following years. There's a reason why they have yet to lower their ridiculous forecasts.

This is business. By virtue of the fact the OSX mobile can play games they are competitors.

Well, most electronic devices are in competition with one another in some form or another, but it's perfectly viable for companies to cater specific audiences or provide specific needs and not step on the toes of the others too terribly much. (See: Wii and 360/PS3, although I hate that analogy, but that's another story...)

Again, I see it as YouTube and the film industry, or something like that.

Really the only good game is Rolando? Maybe you didn't see this:
Sony targets iPhone developers and low app prices for PSPgo (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/08/14/sony_targets_iphone_developers_and_low_app_prices_for_pspgo.html)
-or this Microsoft Offering iPhone Developers “Buckets of Money” to go Zune?

Second link doesn't work, and the first doesn't have anything to do with quality games, just business tactics. (Not only that, I was referencing the Wii's success, so why would you bring up Sony and Apple? That's a whole other can of worms...)

You can say that the iPhone doesn't have any good games but you are almost alone in that regard.

I'm probably also in the minority that didn't like "Crappy Summer Blockbuster X". (I think it was Transformers 2 this year...)

Just because certain games are selling or are popular, that doesn't mean they're good.

Again, I don't think Apple's quality control and development environment are going to allow them to intrude on, say, Nintendo's market. A plethora of small "hits" that don't aspire to be anything more than light entertainment on-the-go will, once again, create a "YouTube-esque" market.

(And yes, you'll get the occasional high-quality, ambitious iPhone game, just as you get the same from YouTube, but they'll be rare and far in between.)

Jimmi covered most everything else, but I'll just throw this bit in:

Well I tell that Namco says that they are developing Tekken for the iPhone.

You're kidding yourself if you think this is going to be anything substantial.

iPhone Tekken : Tekken 6 :: iPhone MGS : MGS 4

I think that's the analogy syntax...

[commander.data]

Of note the early PSP GTA games are much bigger and have more depth than the DS port the iPhone is getting.
I don't believe that is actually true. Liberty City Stories and Vice City Stories were amazing for their time because it largely recreated the PS2 environment on the PSP. But, I don't believe the story or missions were judged to be as good as previous console version though, particularly Vice City Stories.

Chinatown Wars uses the GTA IV rendition of Liberty City and is surprisingly accurate. (http://www.gamesradar.com/f/liberty-city-landmarks-gta-iv-vs-chinatown-wars/a-2009040194452447037) Even without Albany, I think the map size in Chinatown Wars is actually larger than Liberty City Stories. Reviews also seem to indicate that Chinatown Wars has compelling story and missions with review websites generally giving Chinatown Wars higher scores than Liberty City Stories which in turn scored higher than Vice City Stories. Chinatown Wars is definitely a different presentation of GTA and I personally would have preferred a 3D version, but it is by no means a miniaturized or reduced GTA in scope or content.

Rockstar's name does hold a lot of clout with gamers and developers and the fact that Rockstar sees fit to put GTA Chinatown Wars on the DS, the PSP, and the iPhone/Touch does mean something. The 3 gaming devices may be very different, but Rockstar now feels they are all basically equal in deserving AAA developer attention. Afterall, despite being a more "hardcore" platform, the PSP is getting the 2.5D Chinatown Wars just like the DS and iPhone/Touch. Assuming GTA does well on iPhone, which is very likely, it can only be a sign of more things to come.

Admittedly, the iPhone doesn't compete directly with portables that have physical controls. It is important to note that the PSP hit 50 million units in lifetime sales earlier this year and iPhone/iPod Touch was just announced to have reached the 50 million units sold benchmark. Granted not every iPhone/Touch owner plays games or the same types of games as PSP or DS users, but virtual controls have improved to a point where they are suitable not only for the casual gamer but arguable the average gamer as well. With the iPhone/Touch growth rate exceeding that of the PSP and DS, I think Sony and Nintendo should be watching closely to make sure they aren't funneled into the the hardcore-only market, which may be lucrative, but has smaller numbers. Afterall, if your cell phone or mp3 player, which you are likely to have on you more often, can satisfy the majority of your portable gaming needs, the likelihood of you carrying a separate dedicated portable gaming device is reduced. Especially in the case of games like GTA Chinatown Wars where the content is the same and it's just a tradeoff between physical controls and carrying one less device.

It'd be very interesting to see how Rockstar prices the iPhone version compared to the $40 PSP version and $35 DS version. If anyone can reverse the downward price pressure in the App Store by delivering enough content to justify $20+ game prices, it'd certainly be Rockstar.

[automan98]

I'm not a gamer, but from the games I've played on different devices I've noticed that actual buttons do make a different and are valuable.

[Cyberius]

There is no evidence that the iPhone/Touch will support big budget titles. Honestly, the bulk of iPhone games have more in common with cell phone games than with handheld games.

[LoftyTheMetroid]

commander.data speaks truth.

Granted, though, I think the Chinatown Wars ports have more to do with Rockstar wanting the biggest return on their investment, as opposed to finding platforms they find worthy of AAA content. Same reason the PSP titles were ported to PS2. I'm still thinking a Wiimake/port of the PS2 GTA trilogy (plus the PSP side stories) shouldn't be too far down the road, although I'm surprised it hasn't already been pushed out the door by this point.

Shame I don't have much respect for Rockstar as a company, though...

[commander.data]

There is no evidence that the iPhone/Touch will support big budget titles. Honestly, the bulk of iPhone games have more in common with cell phone games than with handheld games.
I guess that's why I'm very interested to see how Grand Theft Auto Chinatown Wars does on the iPhone. It's the first really big name title to come to DS, PSP, and iPhone with essentially the same content and codebase.

And Gameloft's Gangstar West Coast Hustle and Modern Combat: Sandstorm were each reported to have budgets of over $1 million. Admittedly not a huge budget as video games go nowadays, but those aren't cheap projects either. I'm pretty sure EA isn't being stingy on NFS: Underground, NFS: Shift or Madden 10. EA is also making a Command & Conquer for iPhone too which is a major IP that can justify a big budget and is being designed from the ground up rather than a port.

Granted, though, I think the Chinatown Wars ports have more to do with Rockstar wanting the biggest return on their investment, as opposed to finding platforms they find worthy of AAA content. Same reason the PSP titles were ported to PS2. I'm still thinking a Wiimake/port of the PS2 GTA trilogy (plus the PSP side stories) shouldn't be too far down the road, although I'm surprised it hasn't already been pushed out the door by this point.
My hope has always been that Feral Interactive will make a Feral Legends Mac port of the GTA Double Pack (GTA III and Vice City) using the XBox version which is superior to both the PS2 and PC versions due to higher polygon models, better lighting, reflections, and 5.1 surround sound. Of course, as you point out, there isn't a huge profit motivation for a Mac GTA port. Although, it isn't likely to lose money either especially if Feral assumes most of the risk.

[iMaggot]

Brilliant and true :D.
I do play a few games on my iPod but they really are nothing compared to DS, PSP or GBA games.

I agree, the iPhone is no DS or PSP but i still want to see more game on it ;)

[str1f3]

I'll try not to say anything redundant. (Thanks jimmi!)



Do you actually follow these sorts of things, or did you just google for a news story that supported your argument?

Any major losses in profit in the past year have usually been due to the Wii having a weaker line-up (mostly because Nintendo's internal studios released their major titles the years before, and third parties not having stepped up to fill the gap in the interim), an overall flailing Japanese game market, and currency exchanges.

Most of these profit losses are typical and expected, and Nintendo already has plans for the following years. There's a reason why they have yet to lower their ridiculous forecasts.

Do you know how to read? From Geek.com (http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/nintendo-blames-apples-iphone-for-poor-ds-sales-dipping-profits-20090731/)
"It’s interesting how Nintendo executives explained investors on a conference call that Apple’s iPhone and iPod touch contributed to the decline in DS sales without even mentioning the rival Sony PSP. The seemingly passing comment indicates that the iPhone platform has become the materially impacting factor in the gaming space."

You cite no evidence for the garbage you are pushing. It is just your own opinion which means nothing if not based on fact.And yes I did Google it because I was already aware of the story. I don't keep bookmarks of every single news story in the world.


Second link doesn't work, and the first doesn't have anything to do with quality games, just business tactics. (Not only that, I was referencing the Wii's success, so why would you bring up Sony and Apple? That's a whole other can of worms...)


I'm probably also in the minority that didn't like "Crappy Summer Blockbuster X". (I think it was Transformers 2 this year...)

Try out another link. Microsoft luring iPhone developers for Zune apps (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/microsoft-luring-iphone-developers-for-zune-apps/). Chances are I've watched more indie movies and have been gaming since the Atari 2600 and am now a casual gamer. You are kidding yourself if you think that gamers first question isn't "How are the graphics?". Yes good gameplay is always important but you are comparing a platform that has been out a little over a year to a platform that's been around for a decade and they are supposed to have equivalent quality of games out of the box.

You mention why I bring up Sony as if another portable gaming platform has nothing to do with this conversation.

Just because certain games are selling or are popular, that doesn't mean they're good.

Again, I don't think Apple's quality control and development environment are going to allow them to intrude on, say, Nintendo's market. A plethora of small "hits" that don't aspire to be anything more than light entertainment on-the-go will, once again, create a "YouTube-esque" market.

(And yes, you'll get the occasional high-quality, ambitious iPhone game, just as you get the same from YouTube, but they'll be rare and far in between.)


Who says so? You? There are a ton of games on the App Store that are classics but those aren't good enough for you. I suppose that's the reason why other platforms are trying to lure these developers away because they're so lousy? That's a ridiculous notion. Nintendo fanboys are always hilarious.

You're kidding yourself if you think this is going to be anything substantial.

iPhone Tekken : Tekken 6 :: iPhone MGS : MGS 4

I think that's the analogy syntax...

I'm glad you think so highly of your own "experienced opinion".:rolleyes: I suppose that you think that the iPhone can't manage similar games with a more powerful hardware and downloads being the future. This is not even considering those oh so holy buttons on controllers are being developed as we speak.

[iTootyFrooty]

I would have to agree with alot of people here. The analog stick on the touchscreen is kind of naf. Its ok but it just doesnt sum up to the d-pad on the DS and PSP. Not to say that the touch is a fun little device ! Its just not exactly made for gaming.

[str1f3]

Don't Apple also have a fund for iPhone app developers?

My point is that the iPhone has better games than what Metroid (or whatever) is trying to say. It says something when you are actively courting developers from another platform. It means that their games are not garbage.


That's a silly thing to post. Even first party Nintendo titles cater to the hardcore crowd (Metroid, Zelda, Advance Wars). And then 3rd party titles like Final Fantasy, Castlevania, Nanostray, GTA (just looking at my own collection) are hardly casual titles either.

The DS (as all Nintendo products) is primarily marketed to kids. This is known very well throughout the industry. Nintendo may come out with some really good games but they don't hide their intentions in the least. They believe that they will have more sales appealing to the casual gamer, since they are the largest market, which turned out to be true.

Then why is the DS outselling the PSP. Why did the Gameboy outsell every competitor it ever had. Why did the Amiga flop against the 16bit consoles. Why is the Wii outselling every other console ever. Why did the PS2 outsell everything last gen?
Comparative graphics actually do mean nothing. And the DS has proved that so long as the game is legible it doesn't matter the graphic quality. New Mario on the DS has 2D sprites, prerendered 3D and the occasional 3D model and looks basic compared to even Yoshi's Island, but it's one of the best selling DS titles.

Again it is primarily a kids' device. The PSP is marketed moreso at an older crowd. I've only seen two adults in my life using a DS and one traded it in for a PSP. Hardcore gamers do not care too much about portable devices. The problem for the PSP is that Sony thought that the same older group who bought the PS2 (average age 29) would also buy the PSP and they were wrong.

But the dev time has nothing to do with the file size. You were making a point that iPhone games aren't big because of filesize problems, but the smallest iPod for a while has been the 8gb model. Yet there have been no big games. Early PSP games were also very large - look at Monster Hunter Freedom, the 2 GTA's, Final Fantasy Tactics or any of the other ports. Again all out very early in the PSP's life.
Of note the early PSP GTA games are much bigger and have more depth than the DS port the iPhone is getting.

You act as if there are no good games on the iPhone. There are. You also forget that 8gb is not a lot. Not even 16GB or 32GB. I don't have a ton of games and my iPhone is already full. The iPhone is more than a gaming device. Their apps do more than games as well. That is why devs are concerned about filesizes. I can't even buy Myst because I have no space on my 16GB iPhone 3G. I'm also pretty sure that most people are having this problem as well since you are managing photos, music, movies, and apps.

You can say that the PSP version is better than the iPhone (for now) but I get to pay at least 1/3 the price and don't have to carry around extra media. As it is, it's a casual game and I couldn't care less on the small extras I'm missing.


They likely will. But it won't be for the better simply because of the controls, which you can't change on an iPhone.

I've never had any real problems with the controls of games personally but manufacturers as we speak are developing controllers if that floats your boat.


Pokemon isn't just a kids game in the same way Mario or Zelda aren't. Have you played it? It's the simple most customisable and deep RPG on the market today. And Tekken on the iPhone, again it will be limited by the controls. You can't get pixel precise controls without a digital input (ie a dpad, face buttons), so chances are that will be simplified to be easily controlled.

You may be right. No offense but I don't care. I'm an adult. I'm not going to carry around a Pokeman game.

QUOTE=raggedjimmi;8453859]And that's the problem with every iPhone game I've ever played. Compromises are made to get an established franchise or genre working with only touch controls.[/QUOTE]

That may be your case. I actually appreciate the touch screen because it's helped create different kind of games. I stopped being a hardcore gamer a while ago because it was boring. Essentially all games were the same but had different skins. I had every generation of consoles from the 2600 to PS2/XBOX generation. Like I said before, there will be controllers coming out for the iPhone.

[Dagless]

I don't believe that is actually true. Liberty City Stories and Vice City Stories were amazing for their time because it largely recreated the PS2 environment on the PSP. But, I don't believe the story or missions were judged to be as good as previous console version though, particularly Vice City Stories.
As someone who has played to completion the Stories games and Chinatown Wars the 2 are very different. The world map is bigger for CW but it's very diluted, there aren't as many missions and it's over way too quickly. Unlike the PSP versions which are completely fleshed out titles, only slightly shorter than the console versions. CW doesn't have voice overs and the cutscenes are nothing more than unanimated static character heads and text. It's more arcade based so it's got a pick up and play factor, but it's also drastically short because of it.
It'd be very interesting to see how Rockstar prices the iPhone version compared to the $40 PSP version and $35 DS version. If anyone can reverse the downward price pressure in the App Store by delivering enough content to justify $20+ game prices, it'd certainly be Rockstar.
Of note the DS version was £9 here in some shops (new). The PSP version will be £25 and I'd imagine the iPhone version will be £10-15. But it sucks to be the people buying that, it's a port of an old DS game that most of us have already played.

The iPhone is already more powerful than PSP and DS. Give the game developers another year or two and you'll see "in-depth" games and hardware add-ons that will make those dedicated devices look like old junk.
Again - it doesn't matter how powerful the system is (read posts people, it makes this a lot easier). Infact if the past 25 years of gaming have shown it's that the more powerful system flops. I was predicting similar results for the current gen and they've been right.
It doesn't matter because the major developers are elsewhere. Konami are making their best games on the DS/PSP, Square are making their best for the DS/PSP, Nintendo only build games for their own hardware and the same for Sony's titles. And if you look over the metacritic results for these games you'll see all the best titles are first party. Speaking of I'd love to see the Metacritic average for all those 21k games.
The iPhone can get all the "Chinese Rolex" titles it wants from Gameloft and the like - so long as Nintendo and Sony don't support the iPhone it won't get far.

Again it is primarily a kids' device. The PSP is marketed moreso at an older crowd. I've only seen two adults in my life using a DS and one traded it in for a PSP. Hardcore gamers do not care too much about portable devices. The problem for the PSP is that Sony thought that the same older group who bought the PS2 (average age 29) would also buy the PSP and they were wrong.

Maybe it's different from what I've seen since the DS's launch (started at university and now in the game development field) but everyone and their dog owns a DS and most play it regularly. Most own PSP's too but don't get the full multimedia experience out of them. I've seen children with both, I've seen adults with both. Adverts are targeted (for both Wii and DS) at the 3 main age groups - children, teen and adult. Don't confuse a universal device as a kids device.

I just saw the trailer for the Gameloft fighting game. Does indeed look like a poor mans Soul Calibre with some terrible voice acting to boot.

[diamond.g]

I've never had any real problems with the controls of games personally but manufacturers as we speak are developing controllers if that floats your boat.


As far as I have been able to tell, so far only Rock Band and Guitar Hero have been successful selling aftermarket add-ons for games. Very few people are going to buy a controller add-on for a game they may or may not be interested in playing.

The second thing that people like to do is sell their old games, in order to buy new ones. Now aside from the fact that most (if not all) of the games are cheap how does one do that for the iPhone platform?

[commander.data]

Of note the DS version was £9 here in some shops (new). The PSP version will be £25 and I'd imagine the iPhone version will be £10-15. But it sucks to be the people buying that, it's a port of an old DS game that most of us have already played.
Well I was just using launch MSRP for DS and PSP pricing. I thought Rockstar felt DS sales were disappointing? Which should mean that many people, particularly existing GTA fans who Rockstar were expecting, didn't actually buy it.

I think bringing GTA to iPhone is also a strategy to get more money from Sony. There is now a very real possibility that any new 3D GTA game like a new Stories game coming to PSP would also come to iPhone. Seeing that the PS3 seems to have lost out to the XBox 360 with the GTA IV DLC, maybe Rockstar will try to negotiate a cash deal with Sony to make the next PSP game exclusive or at least severely delay the release on other platforms. Was the DS exclusivity for Chinatown Wars and actual signed deal with Nintendo or was it just a verbal marketing thing?

[CQd44]

I'd like to see something like Elite Beat Agents done on the iPhone. Shouldn't be too difficult.

For things like Castlevania.... woo boy. Best of luck.

[AAPLaday]

Id love to see Toe Jam and Earl. I used to love that game, the first one anyway. It would rock over bluetooth multiplayer as well :D

[CQd44]

Id love to see Toe Jam and Earl. I used t love that game, the first one anyway. It would rock over bluetooth multiplayer as well :D

I wish I had the guts to buy the genesis emulator for my G1, otherwise I'd be playing all sorts of games.

The genesis emulator on the DS is alright, but it won't load games over 3.3 MB :[

[AAPLaday]

I wish I had the guts to buy the genesis emulator for my G1, otherwise I'd be playing all sorts of games.

The genesis emulator on the DS is alright, but it won't load games over 3.3 MB :[

Have you heard about a genesis emulator coming to the iPhone? Whats the deal with the android one? Is it worth it?

[CQd44]

Have you heard about a genesis emulator coming to the iPhone? Whats the deal with the android one? Is it worth it?

I was under the impression from reading posts on this forum that emulators aren't allowed in the app store. I have no idea what Cydia offers though; I don't own an iPhone.

I just found Gensoid Lite in the Android Market. I'm installing it and when I try a game on it I'll let you know how it runs :]

EDIT:

Just loaded up Rocket Knight Adventures. It runs pretty smooth, it has sound, and is overall a good experience. Gensoid Lite is free and it's what I'm using. Try it! The only gripes I have involve trying to press up-left or basically two buttons at once.

[gavin83209]

Just something that I would throw out here is that I took the unweighted average of the ratings of the top ten most popular games from the Nintendo DS, the Sony PSP and the iPod Touch/iPhone and came up with the following numbers:

Nintendo DS games (wikipedia most popular list and gamespot reviews)
1. Nintendogs: 8.92 (all versions)
2. New Super Mario Bros.: 9.0
3. Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day: 7.2
4. Pokemon Diamond and Pearl: both 8.5
5. Mario Kart DS: 9.2
6. Brain Age 2: More Training in Minutes a Day: 7.0
7. Animal Crossing: Wild World: 8.4
8. Super Mario 64 DS: 8.4
9. Mario Party DS: 8.0
10. Pokemon Platinum: 8.0
Average: 7.37/10

Sony PSP (wikipedia most popular list and gamespot reviews)
1. Monster Hunter Freedom Unite: 6.5
2. Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories: 8.6
3. Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII: 9.0
4. Daxter: 9.1
5. Monster Hunter Freedom 2: 5.0
6. Need for Speed Most Wanted 5-1-0: 6.9
7. Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition: 7.3
8. Monster Hunter Freedom: 6.5
9. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories: 8.4
10. Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee: 7.8
Average: 7.51/10

iPhone games (most popular according to App Store)
1. Dennis Mengelt: ***/5.82
2. Uno (tm) - FREE: **/4.44
3. Mr.AahH!! Lite: ***^/7.03
4. Geared - Free: ***/5.69
5. Sheep Launcher Free!: ***^/7.02
6. Paper Toss: ***^/6.63
7. PAC-MAN Lite: ***/6.00
8. Dirt Moto Racing Lite: ***/5.51
9. Jurassic 3D Rollercoaster Rush FREE: ***^/6.75
10. BATTLE BEARS Free: ***/5.82
Average: 6.071/10

Most popular full iPhone games:
1. Dennis Mengelt: ***/5.82
2. Paper Toss: ***^/6.63
3. Tap Tap Revenge: ***^/7.19
4. Water Slide Extreme: **^/5.24
5. Kingdoms Live(tm) - 45 Legend Points: ****/8.31
6. Racing Live(tm) - 25 Prestige Points: ***^/6.86
7. iMobsters(tm) - 20 Favor Points: ****/8.40
8. Biker Blast Off: **/3.81
9. Vampires Live(tm) - 15 Loyalty Points: ****/8.16
10. Ninjas Live: ***/6.42
Average: 6.684

iPhone ratings counted by averaging ratings where:
***** is 10
**** is 8
*** is 6
** is 4
* is 2
^ is half of a star

As you can see, the DS and PSP games rated a full 1.3 or 1.5 points higher respectively, counting trial versions. Not counting trial versions, this number is really 0.6/0.8. Not so dramatic as the first draft, but still there. If you don't believe me, I have cited my sources:

NDS and PSP reviews from gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com)
Wikipedia page with most popular games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games)
App Store Most Popular games page (don't know how to link to this)

I did not double check the numbers, so if anything is way off, just let me know and I will fix it.

[commander.data]

iPhone games (most popular according to App Store)
1. Dennis Mengelt: ***/5.82
2. Uno (tm) - FREE: **/4.44
3. Mr.AahH!! Lite: ***^/7.03
4. Geared - Free: ***/5.69
5. Sheep Launcher Free!: ***^/7.02
6. Paper Toss: ***^/6.63
7. PAC-MAN Lite: ***/6.00
8. Dirt Moto Racing Lite: ***/5.51
9. Jurassic 3D Rollercoaster Rush FREE: ***^/6.75
10. BATTLE BEARS Free: ***/5.82
Average: 6.071/10

iPhone ratings counted by averaging ratings where:
***** is 10
**** is 8
*** is 6
** is 4
* is 2
^ is half of a star

As you can see, the DS and PSP games rated a full 1.3 or 1.5 points higher respectively. If you don't believe me, I have cited my sources:

NDS and PSP reviews from gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com)
Wikipedia page with most popular games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games)
App Store Most Popular games page (don't know how to link to this)

I did not double check the numbers, so if anything is way off, just let me know and I will fix it.
I think your iPhone stats are skewed because most of those Most Popular downloads are Lite or Trial versions of games. They are meant for people to try so you're more likely to get people who tried, didn't like it and rated it as such. To more directly compare to DS or PSP games you should only compare iPhone games that are full versions, whether free or paid apps.

[LoftyTheMetroid]

Do you know how to read?

A more unbiased story would be the actual source: Reuters. (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINT26959620090730?rpc=44)

Again, I don't think it's anything major, and the losses have more to do with the other factors I mentioned. Obviously, Apple is going to have some impact on Nintendo, but I think Nintendo is treating Apple as more of a scapegoat to explain certain losses that could be attributed more to an incredibly weak '08-'09 software lineup.

Even if Apple continues to gain more momentum, I do not think it will be at the expense of Nintendo's own success, or, at least, once the dust settles.

You cite no evidence for the garbage you are pushing. It is just your own opinion which means nothing if not based on fact.

I follow a lot of game industry analysts and news stories and have a pretty damn good idea what's going on. I mean, it's not like I need to keep track of sources telling me the U.S. economy has been hurting – same goes for happenings in the game industry.

And yes, when Nintendo's Tokyo EAD offices, Kyoto EAD studios (including the Aonuma, Konno, and others' teams), and Retro Studios are all in development after blowing their major titles (from Twilight Princess to Corruption to Super Mario Galaxy to Mario Kart Wii [at the beginning of '08] to a number of others) in the '06-'07 period, there's going to be a lull. Fortunately, beginning this holiday season, we should see Nintendo performing better as it has several major EAD titles poised for launch.

But anyway, you can believe what you want...


Try out another link. Microsoft luring iPhone developers for Zune apps (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/microsoft-luring-iphone-developers-for-zune-apps/). Chances are I've watched more indie movies and have been gaming since the Atari 2600 and am now a casual gamer. You are kidding yourself if you think that gamers first question isn't "How are the graphics?". Yes good gameplay is always important but you are comparing a platform that has been out a little over a year to a platform that's been around for a decade and they are supposed to have equivalent quality of games out of the box.

(...What's been out for a decade?)

First, I've been talking about Nintendo. I don't really care about Microsoft or Sony, nor do I believe that their philosophies or actions will allow them to succeed in the game industry beyond what they've already accomplished.

Second, just because a company is courting devs, that doesn't mean the devs' games are good, it just means they're profitable... (Also, I'm sure Microsoft doesn't want those devs working for Apple, in addition to other reasons.)

You mention why I bring up Sony as if another portable gaming platform has nothing to do with this conversation.

You're giving me a headache...

I was talking about game quality in relation to Nintendo's console being a key to their success, and you brought up Sony courting iPhone devs. Those are two completely separate topics. It didn't address anything I said at all...

(And yes, Sony is completely different, but I don't want to have to delve into explaining if you don't care. Suffice to say, they have much more to lose, considering the PSP was a partial response to the iPod...)

Who says so? You? There are a ton of games on the App Store that are classics but those aren't good enough for you. I suppose that's the reason why other platforms are trying to lure these developers away because they're so lousy? That's a ridiculous notion. Nintendo fanboys are always hilarious.

Tell me exactly what "classics" I'm missing out on, and why they're so good and worthy of note.

I'm glad you think so highly of your own "experienced opinion".:rolleyes: I suppose that you think that the iPhone can't manage similar games with a more powerful hardware and downloads being the future. This is not even considering those oh so holy buttons on controllers are being developed as we speak.

With the iPhone as it is, I don't think it will be a viable platform for games without buttons. I've played more than my fair share of touchscreen games, and I know what a touchscreen analogue stick feels like...

Anyway, again, the hardware is not the issue. Devs don't treat the platform seriously because the iPhone is not designed to treat the medium seriously, but that's a whole other discussion...

It says something when you are actively courting developers from another platform. It means that their games are not garbage.

It says that they're profitable, not necessarily good...

-----

The DS (as all Nintendo products) is primarily marketed to kids. This is known very well throughout the industry. Nintendo may come out with some really good games but they don't hide their intentions in the least.
I've never used a DS so I can't comment on it.
I stopped being a hardcore gamer a while ago because it was boring. Essentially all games were the same but had different skins. I had every generation of consoles from the 2600 to PS2/XBOX generation.

It's all starting to make sense...

Has it never struck you that the only reason all the games you played were essentially reskins of one another had more to do with your ignorance of the medium and susceptibility to marketing gimmicks like "hardcore" and "adult" than actual game content? The very mentality that blinds you from seeing and experiencing genius and creativity is the same that stuck you in the rut of monotony, methinks...

In a way, I kind of envy you knowing that there must be countless incredible games out there that I know you haven't played that I wish I could experience again for the first time. Unfortunately, it's that same ignorance that will probably prevent you from touching all those wonderful titles – oh, the tragic irony... :(

(I wonder if you think Pixar movies are just for kids...)

Anyway, tell me if you ever pick up a Wii or something. Metroid Prime: Trilogy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb0Uh7u4zQw) JUST came out, and it's the best deal since the Orange Box. And, if you like fighting games, Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yai52R5tL5g) is just right around the corner. The Virtual Console would also give you a chance to catch dozens of classics you may have missed, such as Majora's Mask or Super Metroid.

Id love to see Toe Jam and Earl.

*Pats his Wii*

Virtual Console, baby. XP

But yes, a sequel would be oh-so lovely.

[BrokenChairs]

Do you think it's possible Apple will focus on games for their Macs next? Maybe they will after their next even in October.

When I first saw the heading I thought "Amazing AC2 and Madden on Macs...only to be disappointed it's for the iPhone :(

But it seems that the iPhone is the way Apple is going for games. So much for that call on games for Macs presentation a few years ago...

[gavin83209]

I think your iPhone stats are skewed because most of those Most Popular downloads are Lite or Trial versions of games. They are meant for people to try so you're more likely to get people who tried, didn't like it and rated it as such. To more directly compare to DS or PSP games you should only compare iPhone games that are full versions, whether free or paid apps.

A very good suggestion. My original post has been updated with the new numbers. Again, if I missed one as being a trial version, let me know. The difference is still 0.8/0.6 for PSP and DS, respectively.


Most popular full iPhone games:
1. Dennis Mengelt: ***/5.82
2. Paper Toss: ***^/6.63
3. Tap Tap Revenge: ***^/7.19
4. Water Slide Extreme: **^/5.24
5. Kingdoms Live(tm) - 45 Legend Points: ****/8.31
6. Racing Live(tm) - 25 Prestige Points: ***^/6.86
7. iMobsters(tm) - 20 Favor Points: ****/8.40
8. Biker Blast Off: **/3.81
9. Vampires Live(tm) - 15 Loyalty Points: ****/8.16
10. Ninjas Live: ***/6.42
Average: 6.684

iPhone ratings counted by averaging ratings where:
***** is 10
**** is 8
*** is 6
** is 4
* is 2
^ is half of a star

As you can see, the DS and PSP games rated a full 1.3 or 1.5 points higher respectively, counting trial versions. Not counting trial versions, this number is really 0.6/0.8. Not so dramatic as the first draft, but still there.

[Bjohnson33]

So could the touch eventually take over the PSP and the like for handheld gaming systems?

If they released some sort of controller for the iPhone and Touch, it could give it a real run for its money. It might be smarter though to do similar to the Wii - target the casual gaming market and leave the hard core gamers to the dedicated game machines. Nintendo has proven that there's a huge untapped market in people that just want to pick up a simple game and play.

[Bjohnson33]

Sorry but that's nonsense and the misunderstanding is yours - people don't generally buy an iPod Touch because it's a games machine, they buy it as a PMP which has games as a side function.

There will always be a market for more in depth titles and there will always be machines that support that market.

I think you're right - there's room in the market for both types of gaming.

[Bjohnson33]

I think Apple has something here. My kids have spent way more time playing "rope 'n fly lite" (price: free) then they have with any of the games on their brand new Nintendo DSi. They constantly have their iPhones or touch at their side, while the Nintendos are collecting dust. I think it is only a matter of time until we see preferential game development for the iPhone/touch platform and the DS and psp platforms become irrelevant

I think that's a good point. Similar to how the best camera is the one you have with you. The fact that people have their iPhones or Touches with them most of the time means they can potentially get a lot of casual gaming done.

[Bjohnson33]

I don't think games will be 100% effective until a gamepad of somesorts can be added to the iPhone dock connector.

I think this is the biggest thing holding it back from being a pretty serious contender. They already have a ton of units in the wild, plus they have a great distribution method with the App Store.

[Bjohnson33]

Id love to see Toe Jam and Earl. I used to love that game, the first one anyway. It would rock over bluetooth multiplayer as well :D

Very good idea - I think that would be a lot of fun to play again!