No Child Left Behind leaves behind science!

[Neserk]

Another failing of Dubya. The forced 2.5 hours on reading is taking time away from science. This is going to come back to haunt us in 10+ years if we don't do something about it.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=753&e=1&u=/ap/20040705/ap_on_re_us/teachers_science

[Voltron]

Another failing of Dubya. The forced 2.5 hours on reading is taking time away from science. This is going to come back to haunt us in 10+ years if we don't do something about it.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=753&e=1&u=/ap/20040705/ap_on_re_us/teachers_science
I don't get it. Don't students learn how to become better readers during the course of learning science? Regardless how is this Bush's failing? I understood it that County's and the schools school board controls curiculum not the State of the Federal Government. My nephew spends 4 classes learning garbage and 1 class dedicated to the FCAT. That doesn't sound realistic to me. 1 class dedicated to reading/writing/math/logic and 4 classes of art/gym/music/etc ie garbage? It should be the other way around and that isn't Bush's fault.

[Laslo Panaflex]

Another failing of Dubya. The forced 2.5 hours on reading is taking time away from science. This is going to come back to haunt us in 10+ years if we don't do something about it.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=753&e=1&u=/ap/20040705/ap_on_re_us/teachers_science

What good is science class if the student can't read or understand what they are trying to be taught? Being illeterate is really going to huant us in 10 plus years.

[Neserk]

Do you know what the literacy rate *is* in the United States??? Any clue whatsoever???

[Neserk]

I don't get it. Don't students learn how to become better readers during the course of learning science?


Yes. Which is why the 2.5 hours of mandated time in reading literature should include science textbooks ;) But it does not.


Regardless how is this Bush's failing? I understood it that County's and the schools school board controls curiculum not the State of the Federal Government.


Nope. Not anymore. The federal gov't (BUSH!) now controls not only what the children read but how much time they do it and what questions they must answer it! It is *all* scripted.


My nephew spends 4 classes learning garbage and 1 class dedicated to the FCAT. That doesn't sound realistic to me. 1 class dedicated to reading/writing/math/logic and 4 classes of art/gym/music/etc ie garbage? It should be the other way around and that isn't Bush's fault.

Sound's like Jeb's fault, to me ;)

[Laslo Panaflex]

Do you know what the literacy rate *is* in the United States??? Any clue whatsoever???

There is no way to get an accurate number of the illerate in America, becuase most are ashamed to admit it. Plus, most illiterate people seem "normal" becuase they use other methods to get by in life. Don't underestimate the importance of reading, and don't take it for granted either.

I work for a company that teaches children and adults with reading and learning disabilites, and trust me it is a big problem. If you like more information on the topic, go to their site:

http://www.lblp.com

Read through the testimonials and watch the videos on the media page. Then when you are done with that read the statistics from our 2002 clinical stats in the research page.

Then, tell me what you think.

Edit, according to the San Diego insider segment, (quicktime video on the site) there are 44 million adults in America that are "functually Illiterate".

[Neserk]

According to the CIA factbook 97% of Americans are literate.

I don't think illiiteracy is something we have to worry about as a nation. Not saying we don't need to work with that 3% if they are capable of learning to read but "No Child Left Behind" not only is ineffectual it is a waste of time and money.

[Neserk]

Then, tell me what you think.



That is pretty cool. The problem is that the No CHild Left Behind doesn't touch on the problem. It is a political band-aid that has no basis in real life. I have to use it, I know ;)

The inflated numbers you usually see touted by Bush etc. count people coming from non-English speaking countries and being here for a year and can't read/write in English :rolleyes: duh! Of course not. It would take me over a year if I moved to France to learn to read and write in French.

And children withe learning disabilites (as you know) aren't going to learn in a traditional classroom which they are often forced into. Even more so with NCLB! It is almost all whole class instruction and there is no time for helping the low students. It is all focused on the top 5% of the class :eek:

[Laslo Panaflex]

That is pretty cool. The problem is that the No CHild Left Behind doesn't touch on the problem. It is a political band-aid that has no basis in real life. I have to use it, I know ;)

The inflated numbers you usually see touted by Bush etc. count people coming from non-English speaking countries and being here for a year and can't read/write in English :rolleyes: duh! Of course not. It would take me over a year if I moved to France to learn to read and write in French.

And children withe learning disabilites (as you know) aren't going to learn in a traditional classroom which they are often forced into. Even more so with NCLB! It is almost all whole class instruction and there is no time for helping the low students. It is all focused on the top 5% of the class :eek:

Read into our school services approach:

http://www.lblp.com/schoolservices/index.shtml

We are trying to get our services into schools, But as you know, No Child left Behind is a big mess, and it makes it hard for us to work with schools.

Plus, many districts are set in their old ways of teaching and don't like to be judged, and admit that how they are teaching is not working for some. Illiteracy is a huge deal, but most people don't realize or care untill it effects them personally.

Let me know if you have any questions about Lindamood-Bell that you can't find on the website, and I will try to answer.

[jsw]

I think that "No Child Left Behind" really means "No Child Learns to Think".

My father, an educator and life-long Republican, is voting Democrat for, I think, the first time in his life specifically because of this stupid policy. Not only does it force schools to do things but not provide them with the funds to do them, not only does it deny funds if kids don't pass (and thus, schools end up kicking out the problem ones so the class passes), but it removes any focus on free thought.

You'd be hard pressed to find any teacher, anywhere, who didn't hate this program.

Yes, reading is important. But, as has been said, what you read and how you internalize and shape an opinion based upon that reading is what is most important.

"No Child Left Behind" is creating a generation of sheep.

[blackfox]

All I have to say is "bahhh...."

[Krizoitz]

If illiteracy is the problem then x-hours of mandated reading isn't going to help. Sitting there while kids read is not going to help them learn HOW to read.

NCLB is a bad bad bad bad bad thing. And for those of you who don't follow other political discussions, when Neserk and I agree on something its like a once in a decade thing.

If you want to see what focusing on standarized testing and teaching to the test does to an education system and the trouble it causes research the education system in Japan and all the trouble they are having.

NCLB is a joke. So you implement a system that demands you live up to certain standards and you threaten the schools with loss of funds if they don't achieve those standards, on top of that you don't give them the money to implement the programs in the first place. Wow. Thats like spraining someones ankle if they don't run a race fast enough and telling them to run it again.

NCLB is a political act. It sounds nice and it makes them look like they are solving the problem without requiring them to actually do anything or think about it. Its an attempt to cripple public schools and skew test results so they can argue for a voucher system and charter schools, at which point money will be siphoned away from the public school system so the well-off can go to charter schools and screw the middle and lower classes. Its elitism run amok, make no mistake. Whatever your feelings on small government and such, you should atleast realize that a well educated populace is good for everyone. Studies have shown that the better educated the less likely they are to commit violent crimes like theft and murder. So yes you are paying for other kids to go to school with your money, but its not like that money is being squandered. (unless you consider textbooks frivolous...)

[skunk]

(unless you consider textbooks frivolous...)
Some...those Creationist ones for a start.
<Separate Thread Alarm>
:rolleyes:

[blue&whiteman]

I think the children should be the ones choosing what they read. stop controlling kids so much and let them be themselves for once.

[Stelliform]

.....

[Neserk]

The private schools are no better than your worst public schools. the only reason children do better is because the parents are more involved. *that* is what makes the difference for a child. Parent's and teachers work together. Until classroom size is reduced and children go to school for 10 hours a day that is what works best.

Parent's get more bang for their buck if they used a individual tutoring program like the person on this thread is talking about.

I've seen my stepson do horribly in a private school for the last two years. From what I can figure out he mostly wasn't bothering doing his homework. That was his mom's fault for not communicating with the teacher and the teacher's fault for not contacting the mom. I hold them equally responsible for his failures.

I worked with a teacher last year who sent her daughter to private school and they wanted to hold her back because she couldn't read at the 3rd grade level in 1st grade :rolleyes: They ignore the fact that they greatly increase her odds of dropping out if they hold her back.

I took a class with a mom who's son was in Kindergarten but they school raises its scores by basically having all their students do two years of kindergarten. They wanted to hold him back because he wasn't reading at a first grade level in Kindergarten. :rolleyes: She was checking with us to see if her son was reading normally. YES! He was actually reading above grade level.

[Neserk]

Read into our school services approach:

http://www.lblp.com/schoolservices/index.shtml


Quick glance: looks ideal. Are you only in Chicago??


We are trying to get our services into schools, But as you know, No Child left Behind is a big mess, and it makes it hard for us to work with schools.


I hear ya!


Plus, many districts are set in their old ways of teaching and don't like to be judged, and admit that how they are teaching is not working for some.


I'm aware of the problem. They insist that in a classroom with 20-35 students one teacher can teach to all learning styles as well as children with disabilities. They are brain washed that way! I've even heard teachers say it. The ones who try? Burn out and failure! There is *more* a lot of teachers could be doing, imo. But WE NEED HELP. From organizations like yours as well parents doing their job at home -- making sure homework gets done, etc.

[Neserk]

You'd be hard pressed to find any teacher, anywhere, who didn't hate this program.
.

I've met a few -- at least who like the actual reading series. But they are usually the ones who don't judge anything negtaively.

Glad to hear your father is wanting to get rid of GW :D

[Chip NoVaMac]

Personally I think the public schools are already messed up. Government just isn't good at managing anything. This is why I bust my ass and sacrifice to send my kids to private school. I know our school district has some good schools, but I don't want to take any chances that the good public school will deteriorate.

Now I am for desegregation, but with our school board trying to satisfy a desegregation lawsuit from decades earlier. To do this they are closing down small community public schools. (some white, and some black) and bussing the kids all over the place.) (Some kids now have a half hour commute to school when they used to walk.)

Until the desegregation lawsuit is settled, I would never send my kids to public school for fear that they would end up attending class in another town. (Like is happening all over the state right now.)

When I did substitute teaching back in the late '70's, my last year was split between four schools. Two forced bussing schools, two community based schools. What I saw was the community based schools had fewer discipline problems, and student grades were better.

Segregation is wrong. But people choose where they live. And that is driven by housing costs. A better solution is to provide opportunities to desegregate by offering the opportunity to have a more diverse community. But then you have the NIMBY's and their fears.