iTunes 9 Breaks Palm Pre Syncing Once Again

[ditzy]

Apple: "This is the iPhone. It's a phone and an iPod, it syncs seamlessly with iTunes."
Palm: Jumping up excitedly "Look we do all that too."
Apple: "No you don't Mwhaha."

[bobertoq]

Its fair to emulate an iPod to bypass iTunes regulation? Oh yeah.
Its Apple's proprietary system. They can and will decide who can and cannot use it. There are alternatives for media syncing.I don't want to change my software for my hardware, or vice versa.

[SFStateStudent]

Palm Pre: *Swing and a miss, again and again, and again* LMAO :p:p:p

[wshwe]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A400 Safari/528.16)

Palm deserves to get the shaft from Apple.

[Mac Kiwi]

I guess Apple are banking on Palm users getting sick of it and going to Apple/somewhere else.

[KnightWRX]

I don't want to change my software for my hardware, or vice versa.

So just get a multi-device syncing solution. No matter what hardware you have after that, it'll work.

When Palm has spent as much as Apple making iTunes, they can use iTunes.

[Lunchbox700]

can I have your account password so I can post as you because thats how I want it to be and I shouldn't have to be tied to my account to post on these boards when yours is better.

Thanks that gave me a smile . Glad someone is with me ;)

[charlituna]

Umm do you understand anything about programing there.


quite a bit actually, which is why I'm 99% sure that all the folks saying that Apple wrote itunes to check for code that identifies a device as a Palm Pre and then to ignore it really have no clue if that is the case. Because they haven't done the work you describe. They are just guessing and stating it as fact. which is not every cricket. If you are going to state a fact you should be able to back it up.

Ok. I'm quite confident that the Pre works with Palm's "main piece of software", whatever that might be.

it's itunes. or is when Apple hasn't cut off whatever trick they are using.

which is the point, Palm hasn't written anything. they were too cheap, lazy whatever.

and then to make matters worse, they violated the USB-IF codes of conduct by having their device spoof Apple's vendor ID (big no no) AND cried foul to the Forum that Apple won't let them use itunes wah, wah.

You are not even address the issue. Yes you have stated another fact that is true but it is not relevant to my statement of fact.

I stated, "2) Apple blocks the use of legally purchased music on competitors' products."

When challenged I demonstrated that Apple blocks the Pre from synching with iTunes. That fact proves the truth of my statement.

you have actually proven nothing. You can use your music on anything you want. What Apple blocked was the Pre (and other devices) using itunes as a tool for automating the copying of said music to said device.

not the same thing at all

[*LTD*]

iTunes is Apple's software, meant to work with Apple's devices or possibly those and only those approved by Apple. Apple makes no bones about this. It's pretty clear and is perfectly legal. Even by the EU's standards.

You know for how long this has been a problem? Since never.

It's an artificial issue that seems to exist only on tech fansites on the ass-end of the net, perpetuated by people who want to have whatever they want, when they want it, and are prepared to justify it with ridiculous arguments.

The whole Pre-not-syncing-with-iTunes situation is a non-issue. It doesn't matter. Direct all bellyaching toward Palm and the rest of the industry for not being able to offer any better alternatives if the issue really does mean that much to you.

[Kludge420]

you have actually proven nothing. You can use your music on anything you want. What Apple blocked was the Pre (and other devices) using itunes as a tool for automating the copying of said music to said device.

not the same thing at all

And now you've probably read the rest of the thread...

[Mr. Gates]

Only thing silly is that Palm promised iTunes synching.

DID THEY ?!!? Really Did they ever state that as a feature? Or is this a case of people bitching about a corrected mistake?

I wonder,.... don't really care , but wonder:D

[pdjudd]

DID THEY ?!!? Really Did they ever state that as a feature? Or is this a case of people bitching about a corrected mistake?

I wonder,.... don't really care , but wonder:D

It was advertised from day one by Palm.

[Digital Skunk]

After being a Palm Pre owner for some time now, and seeing how great it's UI is compared to the iPhone, I can truly say that I don't really give a flying turd about iTunes syncing.

I wonder if Palm is only playing around with Apple simply because they mention that their devices will sync with iTunes? If they didn't say that, I don't think anyone would care that it doesn't. You can just drag and drop music onto it anyway.....

p.s. My trusty Nano still comes with me, so Pre as music player is a bit moot.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

p.s. My trusty Nano still comes with me, so Pre as music player is a bit moot.

Same. I have an iPhone, a classic and a 3rd generation shuffle. I rarely leave the house without the shuffle or classic. My phone is a phone, I won't waste the battery listening to music.

[Mr. Gates]

It was advertised from day one by Palm.

Strange.... I seem to have missed that statement.

Care to post a link?

[MorphingDragon]

:rolleyes:

[Bill Gates]

Strange.... I seem to have missed that statement.

Care to post a link?
http://investor.palm.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=386488

[Eddyisgreat]

Strange.... I seem to have missed that statement.

Care to post a link?

You've got to be smoking some serious crack if you havn't seen Palm's brazen attitude towards this entire matter :
http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre/ (second attachment) , not to mention the Coup de grâce (first attachment)

[Mr. Gates]

http://investor.palm.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=386488

You've got to be smoking some serious crack if you havn't seen Palm's brazen attitude towards this entire matter :
http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre/ (second attachment) , not to mention the Coup de grâce (first attachment)

Actually , yes ( VEry GoOd CrACk ) But thanks for the links. I honestly WAS not informed .

Thought it was something kinda " un-said"

[heisetax]

I don't know why Palm would want to use iTunes to sync their Pre with their owners iTunes music. I having been able to sync my iPods with my Mac in over a year. Safely that goes back another year. I've erased my iPod several times by mistake. I'm looking for a program that work with my Mac. I've stopped putting music on my iPod as I'm afraid that I will lose it again.

Maybe I can wait until Palm comes to its senses & writes their own sync. When they do I'll give theirs a try as Apple's doesn't work on my Intel Mac.

[cjmillsnun]

8.5b is the total sales figure; mentioned during yesterday's event.

In how many years?

[butterfly0fdoom]

I wonder if Palm is only playing around with Apple simply because they mention that their devices will sync with iTunes? If they didn't say that, I don't think anyone would care that it doesn't. You can just drag and drop music onto it anyway.....

I think Rubinstien's just trying to upstage Job. And massively failing at that. bnet agrees (http://industry.bnet.com/technology/10003347/palms-rubenstein-learning-hes-no-steve-jobs/).

[Magnets]

iTunes is a brand new library that has a great service for people with certain memberships. Purchasing an iPod or iPhone gives you a gold membership. Anyone else can only get a silver membership.

Gold members can come in, hand over thier membership card (iPod/iPhone) and the librarian will put all the books and videos in your bag for you.

Silver members can come in, but they have to make their own way round the shelves and fill up their own bag. If the silver members have clever friends, they can create a robot that will read the instructions provided by the library and fill up their bags for them.

Palm are not clever friends to have. They instead walk in with a photocopied gold card, and then blame the librarian when they get told they have to get their own books.

[butterfly0fdoom]

iTunes is a brand new library that has a great service for people with certain memberships. Purchasing an iPod or iPhone gives you a gold membership. Anyone else can only get a silver membership.

Gold members can come in, hand over thier membership card (iPod/iPhone) and the librarian will put all the books and videos in your bag for you.

Silver members can come in, but they have to make their own way round the shelves and fill up their own bag. If the silver members have clever friends, they can create a robot that will read the instructions provided by the library and fill up their bags for them.

Palm are not clever friends to have. They instead walk in with a photocopied gold card, and then blame the librarian when they get told they have to get their own books.

Uh. I think the house analogy works better.

[wackymacky]

ho ho ho, ha ha ha.


I'm a bit sick of this.

Palm has no right to try and do this.

They need to sit down with Steve over a cup to tea and work out an agreement when they pay a licence fee to have ligitimate access to iTunes.

[MorphingDragon]

I think Rubinstien's just trying to upstage Job. And massively failing at that. bnet agrees (http://industry.bnet.com/technology/10003347/palms-rubenstein-learning-hes-no-steve-jobs/).

Upstage and Jobs in the same sentence cause a black hole to form in the outer regions of the milky way, Causing Quantum anomalies...

I guess Microsoft is a quantum anomaly. :D

[Unspoken Demise]

I don't want to change my software for my hardware, or vice versa.

Hmm, well, my iPhone syncs perfectly with iTunes. Maybe there's a reason for that. Oh, right, because I chose hardware compatible with iTunes software. And im so sorry that Pre owners were told they could sync with iTunes. Maybe Palm shouldnt have promised that, knowing they were going about it the wrong way, emulating a product that a Pre clearly is not.

[JGowan]

You'd think Palm would've realised by now that all this wasted effort could've gone into a proper syncing solution.Honestly, nobody knows what has been said by Apple to Palm (rather, Steve to Rubinstein, or whatever) in phone calls, veiled threats, insults, etc. ...

My guess, though, is that they don't like each other AT ALL ...

Perhaps PALM likes being a big pain in the @$$.

[madog]

How? Market size does not mean much if it was legitimately obtained. The iPods and iTunes are supremely successful products on their own merits. I remember sycing an iPod on a PC before iTunes existed. The software options stank until iTunes came out, but that didn't stop me from buying the hardware. I even went out of the way to buy a fire-wire card for my PC to get it. I even seem to recall that sales of the iPod exploded after it was made available on the PC.

The only legal problem that Apple could have is if it could be argues that they were using one monopoly to create a unrelated monopoly. That just isn;t happening because the demand for both products are high on their own merits.

Because that's how imagination works. I imagine unicorns giving me millions of dollars too.

When Apple doesn't allow at least some form of use with iTunes and other devices, people will start having their iTunes player with their music (because it came with their Mac), the Sony music app (because they bought whatever Sony mp3 player), and the Palm music/contact transfer app (because of their phone). It's not wrong, or by any means all that complicated for some, but Apple has always tried to avoid that. The perfect example being iPhoto and Garageband (and to some extent iMovie, though that has more specific compatibility).

Maybe Apple does see the Palm as a threat, I don't know. I just don't see the big deal in Apple letting them (although maybe under different circumstances).

[*LTD*]

Hmm, well, my iPhone syncs perfectly with iTunes. Maybe there's a reason for that. Oh, right, because I chose hardware compatible with iTunes software. And im so sorry that Pre owners were told they could sync with iTunes. Maybe Palm shouldnt have promised that, knowing they were going about it the wrong way, emulating a product that a Pre clearly is not.

Hugely, immensely irresponsible of Palm to promise such a thing. But what a way to sell people on iTunes + iPhone.

[haravikk]

Is it me or does iTunes 9 also break the mini iTunes window? Clicking the maximise button, or using the "Zoom" option, just adjust my window slightly, instead of switching to shrunk the iTunes window.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Is it me or does iTunes 9 also break the mini iTunes window? Clicking the maximise button, or using the "Zoom" option, just adjust my window slightly, instead of switching to shrunk the iTunes window.

you have to option+click the zoom button.

[polaris20]

iTunes is Apple's software, meant to work with Apple's devices or possibly those and only those approved by Apple. Apple makes no bones about this. It's pretty clear and is perfectly legal. Even by the EU's standards.

You know for how long this has been a problem? Since never.

It's an artificial issue that seems to exist only on tech fansites on the ass-end of the net, perpetuated by people who want to have whatever they want, when they want it, and are prepared to justify it with ridiculous arguments.

The whole Pre-not-syncing-with-iTunes situation is a non-issue. It doesn't matter. Direct all bellyaching toward Palm and the rest of the industry for not being able to offer any better alternatives if the issue really does mean that much to you.

This is all well and good, but we're in the Age of Self-Entitlement. Your response, while logical, isn't good enough. They want their Pre and eat it too. Oh wait, that doesn't sound right. :D

[kingtj]

With the abortion that was "Palm Desktop for OS X" being the best Palm could offer Mac users for their earlier smartphones and devices, I'm not at all surprised they're resorting to these hacks to try to "bum" off the functionality of iTunes syncing this time.

They don't seem to be capable of coding anything decent for the Mac platform to begin with.



No other player/phone except I think for the short lived deal with Motorola ever allowed syncing of a non-Apple device from iTunes. Not sure if Palm ever approached Apple about licensing. And even if they did, Apple may want to keep their system closed, in order to "keep it from falling prey to the pitfalls of supporting 3rd party devices in conjunction with their software." However, Palm has certainly taken the illegal steps in order to provide this functionality and their stance and actions are reprehensible, especially for a major company such as Palm.

Make your own software Palm, but don't insist that Apple open iTunes to your devices.

[*LTD*]

This is all well and good, but we're in the Age of Self-Entitlement. Your response, while logical, isn't good enough. They want their Pre and eat it too. Oh wait, that doesn't sound right. :D

Well in that case, I want an Apple tablet NOW. Who is Apple to deny ME this thing RIGHT NOW?? And a pony. i want one of those too. Presented to me holding a tablet in its mouth. ;)

[haravikk]

you have to option+click the zoom button.
Lovely, so they changed perfect default behaviour out for a completely useless one instead? Swing and a miss!

iTunes 9 for me spends 90% of its time frozen and unresponsive (but still playing music), it's a usability nightmare. Not very impressed at all.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Lovely, so they changed perfect default behaviour out for a completely useless one instead? Swing and a miss!
Too true. My zoom button doesn't even work, it just adjusts the window to stretch over the dock (something no app should do) and then it makes it take up more space than it should (since it should just fit to the content).

iTunes 9 for me spends 90% of its time frozen and unresponsive (but still playing music), it's a usability nightmare. Not very impressed at all.

!!!! It's awful.

[charlituna]

They just want it to work with the main peice of software with out having to use a huge amount of 3rd party software.



yes but when you are talking about a Palm Pre, '3rd party software' would be, by the very definition, anything not made by Palm. including itunes.

[crawdaddct]

I have a iMac and Pre. The update has not affected my syncing at all. I use Salling Media Sync.

[*LTD*]

I have a iMac and Pre. The update has not affected my syncing at all. I use Salling Media Sync.

But Salling doesn't actually go through the iTunes interface, right? There's no spoofing involved to make iTunes think it's an iPod/iPhone.

[John.B]

But Salling doesn't actually go through the iTunes interface, right? There's no spoofing involved to make iTunes think it's an iPod/iPhone.
Salling doesn't pretend to be an iPod; instead it synchronizes DRM-free* songs/playlists/etc. to your phone from your iTunes library using Apple's published iTunes interface (via the XML file where this is all documented).

This is exactly what Palm should be providing for its Pre owners (and what RIM has done for it's Blackberry customers).

http://www.salling.com/MediaSync/Mac/

* And remember it was El Jobso who held the RIAA coalition's feet to the fire over DRM-free downloads. None of this would be even be possible if our iTunes libraries were still "protected" with Fairplay DRM.

[charlituna]

I have a iMac and Pre. The update has not affected my syncing at all. I use Salling Media Sync.



well you aren't using itunes for syncing so of course an itunes update means nothing for you

but it does beg the point. there are other 3rd party products that will sync just fine. products that could perhaps benefit from Palm giving them some free product by making one of them the 'official' recommended solution for the Pre, the Pixi etc. So had Palm contacted those folks and said "Hey we'd like to promote your product as the software for our new smart phone line if you will agree to ensure that any updates don't break functionality etc" the company probably would have jumped for it.

instead Palm either didn't ask Apple to use itunes or when refused did it anyway. and actually pretends like they are doing this with permission by advertising syncing from within itunes as a feature.

Perhaps Apple should make another 'whining phone call' (a la the Laptop Hunter ads), this time to Palm to politely tell them that they don't have permission to use Apple's trademarked software title in their ad materials, etc. That and the USB-IF refusing to issue any more ID numbers to Palm over the Vendor Code spoofing might get them to admit defeat and apologize.

though I see now that they are including fine print that says that itunes syncing is not guaranteed to continue working. probably to avoid lawsuits by their customers.

And remember it was El Jobso who held the RIAA coalition's feet to the fire over DRM-free downloads. None of this would be even be possible if our iTunes libraries were still "protected" with Fairplay DRM.[

very true. Although some of the songs were already DRM-Free (at a slightly higher price) before last spring. spring 2007 as I recall. it was only perhaps 1 or 2 studios that went in.

but then they all went 'free' with Amazon AND wanted to have flex pricing on itunes which was still the larger retailer. so Apple was in a position to force them to all go DRM free (since DRM could be broken by tricks like burning a CD and re-importing it the whole thing was really pointless).

[butterfly0fdoom]

very true. Although some of the songs were already DRM-Free (at a slightly higher price) before last spring. spring 2007 as I recall. it was only perhaps 1 or 2 studios that went in.

but then they all went 'free' with Amazon AND wanted to have flex pricing on itunes which was still the larger retailer. so Apple was in a position to force them to all go DRM free (since DRM could be broken by tricks like burning a CD and re-importing it the whole thing was really pointless).

Well, Apple had to concede to the flexible pricing to get the DRM-free music from UMG, WMG, and Sony; they were witholding DRM-free rights from Apple to try to get their marketshare down, which didn't work.