Leaked iPod Touch with Camera Photos Were Real

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/12/leaked-ipod-touch-with-camera-photos-were-real/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/09/12/192808-camreal.jpg

Top image from Covino & Rich (http://covinoandrich.com/blog/index.php/2009/08/14/814-the-covino-and-rich-show-starring-little-stevie-c/), Other Images from iFixit (http://www.ifixit.com/)
While there has been an ongoing belief (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/11/apple-still-planning-camera-in-ipod-touch/) that Apple was indeed planning a camera module in the latest iPod Touch, one reader has found the most convincing proof when comparing the iFixit teardown (http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPod-touch-3rd-Generation/1158/1) of the new iPod Touch with the previously leaked images (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/14/images-of-next-generation-ipod-touch-surface/) of an iPod Touch with camera.

When comparing the tear down images to the leaked iPod Touch with Camera images (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/14/images-of-next-generation-ipod-touch-surface/) from radio show Covino & Rich, it becomes obvious that internals of the leaked images line up convincingly with the internals of the 3rd Generation iPod Touch. Meanwhile, they are both distinct from the internals of the 2nd Generation iPod Touch. Such a finding is beyond the realm of coincidence, which means that this image of a camera-enabled iPod Touch was indeed a real Apple prototype:


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/08/14/152022-third_gen_touch_2.jpg

It's not entirely clear why the camera was dropped from the iPod Touch, though rumors suggest (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/11/apple-still-planning-camera-in-ipod-touch/) Apple is still interested in adding a camera to the iPod Touch.

Article Link: Leaked iPod Touch with Camera Photos Were Real (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/12/leaked-ipod-touch-with-camera-photos-were-real/)

[mathcolo]

Well, I'll be selling my 3rd gen without a camera as soon as this comes out...

[leomac08]

something is telling me we are going to see a camera very soon....:D:D:D:D;)

isn't best buy accepting pre-orders for camera protection cases for the ipod touch 3G on Oct 14th!;)

[Macnator]

Hmm, I wonder why Apple decided to not include the camera?

This is very interesting indeed.

[michael.lauden]

for some reason i was let down by them not including the camera. however if they include the camera from the 3GS (which hardware won't support due to the thickness as posted by MR) then it would def take away from sales IMO

i'd def buy an iPod Touch like that instead of a 3GS

[arn]

this also means the photoshop experts who debunked these images were wrong (again).

arn

[ruinfx]

the question is, will the eventual ipod touch with a camera only be able to take video?

[Lesser Evets]

I bet it comes in January through March.

[Cask]

Something I had noticed is that this leaked images showed a small hole next to the lens. I believe the iPod nano also has this small whole next to the lens, which means it is the same camera module or a very similar one.

[mmendoza27]

I wouldn't be surprised if another iPod touch update comes out next February or March and includes a camera. I wonder if Steve was pissed when the camera upgrade was leaked.

[zap2]

I believe it...Job's reasoning on why the iPod touch doesn't have a camera(lower price to make it a great game machine) is quite believable...for the 8GB model. For the 32GB and 64GB model, not so much

[Mr.Texor]

Hmmm, what if Apple decided to release the ipod touch with camera right before or right after the zune with touch controls is going to be released. That way they steal from microsoft all the free advertisement that the tech news media would create. I wonder if the "camera problems" they were supposedly having, were a rumor started by apple.

But then again, it's not cheap to create lots of new 3rd generation ipod touch (the 32 and 64 GB ones) just to have them replaced in a few months. Unless they think it's a good trade off. Also, you would have a few 3rd generation ipod touch buyers pissed.....

[gianly1985]

the question is, will the eventual ipod touch with a camera only be able to take video?

Apparently (iFixit) there's no room in there for a 3GS-sized-Autofocus-camera_module, so probably yes, no stills, only video. Kinda disappointing on an App-Store_Powered device (with social-upload stuff and micro-photoshop stuff). Maybe that's the reason they eventually dropped it. Video-only may be acceptable on the Nano, but inacceptable on a iphone shaped appstore-powered thing.

[alexbates]

I don't think Apple will be adding a camera anytime soon... that was probably just something Apple wanted to try to add to the iPod Touch but changed their minds last minute. Apple might be trying to get more people to buy the iPod Nano by not adding features such as a video camera and FM radio to the iPod Touch.

[LizKat]

Something I had noticed is that this leaked images showed a small hole next to the lens. I believe the iPod nano also has this small whole next to the lens, which means it is the same camera module or a very similar one.

I would rather have a still cam than video. Showing my age, perhaps, or my personal aversion to moving pictures not shot by professional cinematographers (I loathe most YouTube experiences at a rate exceeding 90 percent). Anyway a video-only camera added to the iPod touch next time around would not in itself make me go out and get it. I am not 100% sure that a still cam would be a deal maker either, but it would be closer for me than video as per the new nano's video feature. I'm still going to get a 64GB 3rd gen touch though, I think. Just for the performance boost and the added real estate. Still pondering.

[onionperson654]

I believe it...Job's reasoning on why the iPod touch doesn't have a camera(lower price to make it a great game machine) is quite believable...for the 8GB model. For the 32GB and 64GB model, not so much

EXACTLY! In fact, they could do much more to differentiate the premium (i.e. 32GB and 64GB) models from the standard version. As it stands now, the only visible difference is the storage amount (the speed upgrade won't be obvious to most consumers, unlike the macrumors crowd).

[iMaconApple]

i think next year they will bust out a came for ipod touch..speaking of camera iphone next year will get a front cam..apple is teasing for now..:rolleyes:

it would make more sense for ipod touch to get the camera not nano..because ipod touch has wifi that for you can upload to youtube instead of ipod nano plug to computer then upload..:rolleyes:

i do like the new shiny nano colors they look yummy to eat:D
and wow FM. radio is so 2010..

[jaw04005]

I don't understand Apple's reasoning for not just making the iPod touch an iPhone (same dimensions, shell, electronics, etc) without the cell circuitry.

Seems like a waste of engineering effort to maintain two separate internals, but what do I know.

I guess it all comes down to costs, but the iPhone has to have at least a 60-65 percent mark-up price unsubsidized.

[KnightWRX]

this also means the photoshop experts who debunked these images were wrong (again).

arn

Only good point about this whole story IMO (who doesn't like proving those photoshop "experts" wrong and throwing mud in their face ?).

I think it's time to drop this whole camera thing. It didn't happen, it's not the end of the world, there are dozens of devices out there with a camera if you really do need one. Let's face it, the iPod touch wasn't going to be the pinnacle of photography.

[onionperson654]

Perhaps Apple wants to put in a higher quality camera. Lacking picture capabilities and autofocus is a big ding, and while the nano can now be a quick and dirty video recorder, the touch might need better quality.

The number conceivable could work (and ifixit.com agrees (http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPod-nano-5th-Generation/1157/3) )

6.2 mm- iPod Nano thickness
3 mm- camera in iPod Nano
6 mm- camera in iPhone
8.2 mm- iPod Touch thickness
12.3- iPhone thickness

It would, however, be quite a feat of engineering, as the iPod Touch only has 2.2 mm extra, while the iPhone has 6.3. Perhaps they are specially ordering a slightly thinner autofocus camera.

[Mjmar]

Very odd... I think we may see 2005 all over again. Nano first, Touch soon after. It just seems weird that they'd update the Touch at all before they add a camera... Even if the updates were minimal. There's gonna be a lot of angry iPod buyers.

[onionperson654]

it would make more sense for ipod touch to get the camera not nano..because ipod touch has wifi that for you can upload to youtube instead of ipod nano plug to computer then upload..:rolleyes:


IF they ever do add a video camera to the iPod touch, it will come to dominate youtube.

[Beric]

The question is how soon this camera update will be. Happy to wait a month, but if it's 6 months, I'll just buy the 3G now and upgrade at the next September refresh.

[joueboy]

Of course the prototype of iPod Touch with camera does exist. What else would we expect, even the prototype of next year's iPhone already exist too. Like what SJ mentioned this product is being promoted as a portable gaming device for now. Are we getting a camera on the next iPod Touch update? Absolutely! This one reason for you to buy an upgrade because you're all suckers like me!

[johnhw]

So that XM Idiot is right, crap. :(

[andyplace]

Am I the user who found convincing proof when comparing the photos?
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=8469783&postcount=71

[Bevz]

I don't think Apple will be adding a camera anytime soon... that was probably just something Apple wanted to try to add to the iPod Touch but changed their minds last minute. Apple might be trying to get more people to buy the iPod Nano by not adding features such as a video camera and FM radio to the iPod Touch.

I agree, i think they played around with the idea but changed their minds for whatever reason (perhaps due to Nano sales as you suggest or production costs for the touch or just that it was crap and didn't work as well as they'd hoped). Whatever the reason clearly there is space in there if they want to try and put one in next September, but i don't think you'll be seeing one in there between now and then...

[joeshell383]

Why are we still rehashing this?

It is already crystal clear. Apple planned to add cameras to the Touch and Nano, dropped the Touch one at the last minute due to technical difficulties. All of this has already been reported.

Not because of costs or differentiation. The differentiation is in the phone, not the camera--- Apple is trying to encourage App Store usage on both devices and many apps utilize the camera.

However, as Steve announced (considering how much you love Steve you don't seem to listen to him very much--- he flat out stated 10M in 2008 and that a 3G iPhone was in the works at MWSF 2007 yet people argued about those things endlessly as if they were mysteries) the iPod lineup is now set for the holiday season. The earliest a camera-outfitted Touch would debut is January.

[Bevz]

Am I the user who found convincing proof when comparing the photos?
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=8469783&postcount=71

If you were (and it does seem likely from your post), you should be credited...

[Superdrive]

Bottom line here is if the iPod Touch received a VGA camera the entire intarwebz would be going nuts because it would have been so substandard to the iPhone 3GS with still photos and higher quality (?) video. Why not just wait and do it right? No camera in iPod Touch til quality is on par or greater than iPhone.

[BJB Productions]

this also means the photoshop experts who debunked these images were wrong (again).

arn

Haha, yes...AGAIN.

[BJB Productions]

Am I the user who found convincing proof when comparing the photos?
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=8469783&postcount=71

yeah, I think you are.. And I also think you are right.

[NathanA]

Told you so. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=8471978&postcount=110)

-- Nathan

[alphaod]

So once again Apple is full of crap when they say they don't think users want a camera in their iPod touch… next thing we'll know there will be sudden interest just like the matte displays. :rolleyes:

[onfire4g05]

It's actually pretty good on Apple's part -- release another product, make a nice amount of money, wait a few months and release the same thing with a camera then they get more money. Then next September, throw in GPS and everyone with a 2G, 3G, 3G w/ camera iPod Touch will upgrade to it.

Apple knows how to milk their customers out of some money. No matter what you say or think about Microsoft or any other software company, they all pale in comparison to Apple ... they COULD have released the best iPod with all the features of the iPhone without the phone, but they're not going to do that because it wouldn't rake in nearly as much cash if they progressively added features from the iPhone. It's perfect business sense, but not really customer friendly (IMHO).

I don't think we'll see many people moving from their 2G iPod Touch to a 3G (or even to a 3G w/ camera). However, if they throw in GPS that would probably get both 2G and 3G to upgrade if they make the case well enough ... which Apple does pretty well.

[Miko]

I don't see it.

Where is the camera on the "leaked iPod Touch with camera" picture? All I see is a small gray square and no lens.

[KnightWRX]

So once again Apple is full of crap when they say they don't think users want a camera in their iPod touch… next thing we'll know there will be sudden interest just like the matte displays. :rolleyes:

The thing is, you don't buy an iPod Touch because it has a camera. It's just a "nice to have" (depending on the person) feature. Matte display is just the opposite, there are people who (justified or not) will not buy a Macbook without them.

The need for a camera can be made up by some other device you already have or could upgrade. The need for a Matte display on a Macbook requires a warranty voiding, often ugly hack unless Apple does it for you.

And let's face it, we have people here with a iPod Touch 2G who are pissed because the new version doesn't have a camera. You're telling me this kind of tech savvy crowd doesn't already have a camera device ?

I have a 4 year old iPod I don't upgrade and my cell phone from 6 years ago has a camera.

[Beric]

Am I the user who found convincing proof when comparing the photos?
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=8469783&postcount=71

Looks like it.

It's not like Arn not to credit someone for doing the work.

[docal97]

I don't think Apple will be adding a camera anytime soon... that was probably just something Apple wanted to try to add to the iPod Touch but changed their minds last minute. Apple might be trying to get more people to buy the iPod Nano by not adding features such as a video camera and FM radio to the iPod Touch.

If the photos and recent info is accurate- then Apple was planning to add the camera but pulled it at the last minute to to production issues. So imagine how mad they must have been when the camera was the "one more thing" surprise at the end and they couldn't include it in their best selling device!
I would love to hear of the internal fallout that must have accompanied the decision to pull the camera.

I would agree with some of the posts about a mid cycle refresh of the touch that includes the camera. I don't think that Apple will do it too close to the new device b/c it would alienate a lot of the recent purchasers. So maybe after the Christmas shopping season or even in the spring sounds about right for a timeframe.

[pimentoLoaf]

I wonder if the high-end Touch w/camera was part of the Yellow Submarine Nano for the Beatles catalog that was also cancelled?

[Frisco]

I don't care what the reason is for the lack of a camera; bottom line is Jobs is a liar.

Go ahead keep on worshipping him :eek:

[KnightWRX]

I don't care what the reason is for the lack of a camera; bottom line is Jobs is a liar.

Go ahead keep on worshiping him :eek:

Why is he a liar ? Seriously, this Jobs bashing is as dumb as the Jobs worshipping.

They made the prototype with the crappy nano camera. Higher ups said "No, that won't fly, let's just cut costs and position it as an inexpensive gaming device instead of a iPhone without a phone" and then Jobs did the interview.

You have as much proof that he is a liar as the worshippers have proof that all he says is true. The reality is, the iPod Touch is an inexpensive gaming device and that is what Apple is touting it as.

[Neblinio]

I don't know if someone already noticed, but the iPod touch 3G prototype's camera has quite a big lens compared to the iPod nano 5G's camera.

Although the touch 3G's empty space only fits a camera like the one on the 5G nano, I think the touch was getting a better camera than the nano, maybe with photo capabilities.

[Frisco]

Why is he a liar ? Seriously, this Jobs bashing is as dumb as the Jobs worshipping.

They made the prototype with the crappy nano camera. Higher ups said "No, that won't fly, let's just cut costs and position it as an inexpensive gaming device instead of a iPhone without a phone" and then Jobs did the interview.

You have as much proof that he is a liar as the worshippers have proof that all he says is true. The reality is, the iPod Touch is an inexpensive gaming device and that is what Apple is touting it as.

The new Nintendo DS just got a camera. Sorry about calling jobs a liar. I just think there is more to this story than meets the eye.

Still love Apple--this just doesn't sit right with me.

[LizKat]

Very odd... I think we may see 2005 all over again. Nano first, Touch soon after. It just seems weird that they'd update the Touch at all before they add a camera... Even if the updates were minimal. There's gonna be a lot of angry iPod buyers.

Not necessarily. Some people will be really upset if Apple EVER put a cam in the iPod touch, since -- as a few posters have noted-- that would mean they could no longer take their device to the job.

Others, like myself, figure whatever cam is in the iphone or some other cellphone we always take along is good enough, and the appeal of the newer iPod touch without the cam is more storage for apps and movies and better performance of the device.

The average person who buys an iPod touch now is not going to go nuts just because a video cam might get tacked into another rollout fairly soon. If he wanted the cam, he'd get the nano now, or else stand around and wait and moan about no cam in the iPod touch that he refuses to buy now.

Only a complete jerk would want the 'pod with a cam, but go ahead and buy one without the cam, and still expect the one with the cam to come out soon so that severe disappointment followed by rage can set in. I'm not saying the world is without a reasonable inventory of jerks.

Either way, it doesn't really matter to Apple. Customer now, customer a little later, what's the difference. The noise level about what's in or not in a release --- and when-- is perceived inside tech forums as higher than it really is out in the general population. Also, reactions in here are way, way more exaggerated than out in the real world.

[TechnoLawyer]

this also means the photoshop experts who debunked these images were wrong (again).

True but maybe Apple created this prototype solely to trap an employee leaking information to rumor sites. Also, maybe the touch is too thin for the iPhone camera?

[KnightWRX]

The new Nintendo DS just got a camera. Sorry about calling jobs a liar. I just think there is more to this story than meets the eye.

Still love Apple--this just doesn't sit right with me.

Of course there is. They probably planned a camera, made prototypes and everything. But in the end, what did you expect from the CEO of the company ? To say : "Well, we were going to put a camera in, but we didn't because of many possible reasons, so now, you get to believe me when I say it was a cost cutting measure to give you the most inexpensive gaming iPod I could".

That just wouldn't sit right with investors and consumers. Apple is a company after all. So they spin this as if the camera thing was never in the plans and was just a bunch of rumours. That's not lying, that's just marketing in action.

[Compile 'em all]

Arn, Would be nice to give credit to that "reader" don't you think?

[easy4lif]

janurary release on the tuesday Steve Jobs would have done the macworld Expo presentation (if there is still a macworld)

[CWallace]

Well ifixit's teardown evidently noted that there was no place on the PCB to attach a camera, so I'm disinclined to think this was a "last minute" change by Apple due to incompatibility, since evidently there were working prototypes with the camera roaming around.

So I am inclined to believe that the camera's performance was unsatisfactory (especially if it is only a video camera) and therefore Apple decided much earlier that they would not put a camera in the iPod Touch and ordered PCBs and cases without cameras while they also continued to circulate prototypes to gather additional information.

I don't think we'll need to wait until next September to see a camera (still or video) in an iPod Touch, but I do believe we won't see it in the next 90 days, either.

[na1577]

Here's a comparison of the lenses. Interestingly, the touch camera seems to resemble the iPhone 3GS more than the nano. iFixit said it was unlikely that the iPhone camera in the touch, but it may have been possible after all. (which breaks the argument that Apple didn't want to put the sub-par nano camera in the touch)

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I still don't believe it. Tallest Skil said...

[tadad1]

Here's a comparison of the lenses. Interestingly, the touch camera seems to resemble the iPhone 3GS more than the nano. iFixit said it was unlikely that the iPhone camera in the touch, but it may have been possible after all. (which breaks the argument that Apple didn't want to put the sub-par nano camera in the touch)

Perhaps the camera in the prototype was a prototype itself, thinner yet capable of better quality video and stills rather than the Nano camera but not quite ready for mainstream release and undergoing further development. Whether a camera model will be released before next September may depend on how sales of the new model go, if they drop enough over the next month or so we may see an early release. Personally I don't see the current 3G as worth the upgrade from my 2G but would have been happy to snap up a 64GB if it had come out with all the bells and whistles.

[puffnstuff]

This pretty much sums up my feelings (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vECSyaegm1U)

It is not far fetched to think Apple contacted a manufacturer to make a custom quality camera on par w/ the iPhone 3GS. The manufacturer probably had problems so they had to move on.

[Beric]

I still don't believe it. Tallest Skil said...

LOL. True. Can you find his exact post? :D

EDIT: Upon searching, I'm not sure he ever said it was fake.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

LOL. True. Can you find his exact post? :D

EDIT: Upon searching, I'm not sure he ever said it was fake.

Yeah, I don't think he did. Although he was always king of the FAKE police and an avid 'Apple Would Never Do That'er.

[sam10685]

the question is, will the eventual ipod touch with a camera only be able to take video?

If it is able to take just video, what's the point?

[heisetax]

i think next year they will bust out a came for ipod touch..speaking of camera iphone next year will get a front cam..apple is teasing for now..:rolleyes:

it would make more sense for ipod touch to get the camera not nano..because ipod touch has wifi that for you can upload to youtube instead of ipod nano plug to computer then upload..:rolleyes:

i do like the new shiny nano colors they look yummy to eat:D
and wow FM. radio is so 2010..


To the iPod Touch User having a camera in the Touch more sense than in the Nano as you say. But this is not about iPod Touch Users. It is about what the competition is for the various iPod models.

The Nano needed a camera to compete against other companies that are putting cameras into small mp3 players like the Nano. the iPod Touch is in a class with one other device. That device wins out at Apple at the current time. That device is the iPhone. If the iPod Touch has too many of the features that the iPhone has Steve Jobs & Apple must fear for iPhone sales.

To many iPod Touch Users there is a big difference between the two. But remember that the iPod Touch comes the closest to the iPhone in features & software that it will run. there are other smart phones that compete with the iPhone, but that direct competition only happens with AT&T cell service. So the Touch User will always be a second class Apple citizen. This is just like the PPC Mac User is now a second hand Mac User & will very soon be kicked out of the club.

The profit margin is probably higher on the Touch than on the Nano. Normally more features are put on the higher price/margin item to make the largest total profit. There may be a small amount of competition between the Touch & Nano, but that is very small compared to the competition that was listed above.

[arn]

Arn, Would be nice to give credit to that "reader" don't you think?

The reader emailed me directly, and it wasn't clear if he/she wanted direct credit or not. I err'd on the side of caution, but have an email out.

arn

[ddTaylor]

I don't care what the reason is for the lack of a camera; bottom line is Jobs is a liar.

Go ahead keep on worshipping him :eek:

Very true - and an excellent post. I agree...but I am in the minority here.

D

[terraphantm]

Here's a comparison of the lenses. Interestingly, the touch camera seems to resemble the iPhone 3GS more than the nano. iFixit said it was unlikely that the iPhone camera in the touch, but it may have been possible after all. (which breaks the argument that Apple didn't want to put the sub-par nano camera in the touch)

That lens looks quite a bit bigger than even the 3GS camera. It probably was a decent sensor in there.

[ethana]

Good detective work guys!

[Full of Win]

I bet it comes in January through March.

Doubt it, as this would cause a revolt like the iPhone price drop.

[puffnstuff]

Doubt it, as this would cause a revolt like the iPhone price drop.

Not if they keep the ones without and the ones with are more expensive

Kind of like iPhone 3G and 3GS

[picollus]

Not if they keep the ones without and the ones with are more expensive

Kind of like iPhone 3G and 3GS

I am sure that these full featured 'ipod' will have 10'' screen, GPS, 3G, camera..

Guess what,,,, they will be called iTablet !

[FaasNat]

The question is how soon this camera update will be. Happy to wait a month, but if it's 6 months, I'll just buy the 3G now and upgrade at the next September refresh.This may be why Apple releases products that people complain about. They'll still buy them. And when Apple releases the new version with some of what they want, they'll buy that model as well.

[Micjose]

It's actually pretty good on Apple's part -- release another product, make a nice amount of money, wait a few months and release the same thing with a camera then they get more money. Then next September, throw in GPS and everyone with a 2G, 3G, 3G w/ camera iPod Touch will upgrade to it.

Apple knows how to milk their customers out of some money. No matter what you say or think about Microsoft or any other software company, they all pale in comparison to Apple ... they COULD have released the best iPod with all the features of the iPhone without the phone, but they're not going to do that because it wouldn't rake in nearly as much cash if they progressively added features from the iPhone. It's perfect business sense, but not really customer friendly (IMHO).

I don't think we'll see many people moving from their 2G iPod Touch to a 3G (or even to a 3G w/ camera). However, if they throw in GPS that would probably get both 2G and 3G to upgrade if they make the case well enough ... which Apple does pretty well.
I Totally agree with you!!! ..What can we do? It's business...

[kresh]

What would keep Apple from will releasing a 16GB iPod touch with video camera and FM stereo for the same price as the current 32GB iPod touch w/o camera & FM. (soon, i.e. before Christmas)

[wackymacky]

Why is he a liar ? Seriously, this Jobs bashing is as dumb as the Jobs worshipping.

They made the prototype with the crappy nano camera. Higher ups said "No, that won't fly, let's just cut costs and position it as an inexpensive gaming device instead of a iPhone without a phone" and then Jobs did the interview.

You have as much proof that he is a liar as the worshippers have proof that all he says is true. The reality is, the iPod Touch is an inexpensive gaming device and that is what Apple is touting it as.



Yes, but he could have just said that currently the camera chips that would need to be incorporated are not up to Apples standard, so they have decided to wait, rather that all that crap that the touch is some sort of optimal gaming machine.

[Beric]

This may be why Apple releases products that people complain about. They'll still buy them. And when Apple releases the new version with some of what they want, they'll buy that model as well.

Exactly.

If you look at it though, it's economically sound to sell your Touch right before every update. If you can sell it even for 70% of what you paid, you probably paid not even $100 to use it for a full year. And after every update, the value of the previous generation drops like crazy. It's far better to upgrade every year, than every two or three. 32GB 1G's have lost 60% of their value ($300) since release, and that's less than 2 years.

[Jamo12]

Here's my thinking on why Apple didn't put it in right away. It is the same reason that I believe they updated the shuffle sometime in the middle of the year when it was completely unexpected. They want a little boost in sales after the whole christmas rush is over. Not putting the camera in until later would make people buy a different iPod then when it came out they would think something like, "Dang, i just got this iPod 3 or 4 months ago but now the touch has a camera so i guess 'm getting a new iPod."

Oh... to boost the sales of the touch now they didn't add more memory to the nano. If they added a 32 Gig option to the nano the touch would drop in sales by a significant amount.

So yeah... Apple likes money
Thats just my 2¢

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^looks like FaasNat beat me to it.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[ob81]

Well, I will se eyou guys after christmas. Apple is quite famous for updating stuff prior to the holidays and then dropping something better soon after.

Goodluck to all of you that need the new wank camera in an iPod for some reason. If you have already identified that you are ging to "need" a camera, maybe you should take the $400ish that you are ging to spend on an iPod, save a few weeks, and get a DSLR. That would be better.

Get over this whole camera thing. Hasn't been in the touch for going on 3 years. No one has died because of it.

[troller]

It's not entirely clear why the camera was dropped from the iPod touch, though rumors suggest Apple is still interested in adding a camera to the device.

LOL, not entirely clear? It's more than just clear because apples rip off strategy is always following the same matrix. They know there are enough stupid people who will buy the current ipod touch and that they will also buy the other one with the camera next year. Be happy there are no apple hospitals :D they would fight one tumor in your body and leave the other one on its place to take it out another time $$$

[STSNorthstar]

Can somebody solder a camera to the touch and see if it shows up in the software? Or look in the software fro code relevant to a camera appp on the touch?

[shadow1]

Is it possible to insert a camera of your own into the 3rd Generation ipod touch. There would be solution in waiting for the 4th gen one next year

[picollus]

I don't know if you know... but the engineering design process is composed of multiple prototypes & multiple decision loop... that both are controled by technological, financial & marketing decisions...

So... if we forgot all case leak... maybe that all the rumors were based of only one of the many built prototypes...

One chance that the prototype leaked was not the one with GPS, Camera & OLED screen ! imagine all the hype ! lol !

I am still convinced that the ipod will stay a basic ipod to not canibalize the future full featured tablet !

Note : What is in a prototype is rarely in the final version... if it was the case... plane would not fly & building would not stand up !

[Jack Flash]

Clear again that the slimmer autofocus cameras did not come out of manufacturing correctly and the feature had to be scrapped.

[iSamurai]

I believe it...Job's reasoning on why the iPod touch doesn't have a camera(lower price to make it a great game machine) is quite believable...for the 8GB model. For the 32GB and 64GB model, not so much

Come on... how much extra does the video-only camera module cost? $1? $5? or a better camera for $10? Drill a hole on the casing, 1c?

Paying an extra $5 just because they're apple, so $10-15 extra for a camera feature isn't that bad.


Is it possible to insert a camera of your own into the 3rd Generation ipod touch. There would be solution in waiting for the 4th gen one next year

so how are you going to get a camera app? port it from the iPhone?

[carmenodie]

you have to be a fool to think they won't put a camera in the touch. Not now but later. I predict before summer 10' we'll see them. It is cheaper to build the nano with cameras than the touch so they'll wait until the video nanos get going then spring the video touches on us. It is a marketing strategy. The consumer buys one model, the nano then a few months down the road they get the higher end player with a camera. Seems reasonable to me.

[Brien]

I don't understand Apple's reasoning for not just making the iPod touch an iPhone (same dimensions, shell, electronics, etc) without the cell circuitry.

Seems like a waste of engineering effort to maintain two separate internals, but what do I know.

I guess it all comes down to costs, but the iPhone has to have at least a 60-65 percent mark-up price unsubsidized.

What I'm thinking may happen down the line is that the iPod touch is discontinued in favor of contract-free iPhones.

[KnightWRX]

What I'm thinking may happen down the line is that the iPod touch is discontinued in favor of contract-free iPhones.

You can already get contract free iPhones. At least here. It's 799$ for the 32GB model...

[inkswamp]

Yes, but he could have just said that currently the camera chips that would need to be incorporated are not up to Apples standard, so they have decided to wait, rather that all that crap that the touch is some sort of optimal gaming machine.

No offense but it sounds like you know nothing about marketing.

[Thex1138]

These are the prototypes of the iPod..... Touch.

[ksgant]

To MacRumors:

Okay, we get it. Apple was planning a camera in the iPod Touch. Three front-page stories later with people going over footage and pictures like it was the Zapruder film.

We get it.

[simsandwhich]

Something I had noticed is that this leaked images showed a small hole next to the lens. I believe the iPod nano also has this small whole next to the lens, which means it is the same camera module or a very similar one.
What you're describing is a microphone.

[bmk]

Yes, but he could have just said that currently the camera chips that would need to be incorporated are not up to Apples standard, so they have decided to wait, rather that all that crap that the touch is some sort of optimal gaming machine.

Are you serious? No company can go live and release a new product and start off by saying 'Well we designed it to have a camera in it, but you know there were problems so we pulled the camera, and decided to release it anyway. So there you are, if you could all step forward and buy a product which we couldn't get right and couldn't get ready in time for release, we'd be grateful. I'm sure you won't mind that it lacks the feature we designed to fit in it.'

I realise that this must have been a huge embarrassment internally for Apple - there's no way they would want to be seen to fail in a technical issue like this. But it's a consequence of having a preplanned fixed date (i.e the annual iPod event) to release products rather than just putting them out when they are technically finished and ready.

[Brien]

You can already get contract free iPhones. At least here. It's 799$ for the 32GB model...

Cheap contract free iPhones (in the US)... but they've got awhile before the price lets that happen.

I've also wondered if the reason that iPod touch owners have 3.1.1 while the iPhone has 3.1 is because 3.1.0 had camera stuff in it.

[Bonte]

Video-only on the Touch would be a bad move. If there is a hardware issue that prevents a 3Gs camera then we'll have to wait for a newer smaller camera, a thicker iPod Touch is also not acceptable.

[barbs21]

what i am thinking is that the reason that nano has all these crazy features is so they can get people to get an ipod nano so theyll have a lot of people buying the nano. and then with all that money theyll some what use it for the ipod touch to be better than the nano so the itouch can have a camera and a video camera and ill think there gonna anounce it next September but hey i might be wrong another possibility is that if it had a camera and maybe a mic theyll say screw the iphone ima buy the itouch then the ipod touch would be like and iphone but u dont have internet werever u go then the iphone will drop and the itouch will rise. so yeah and another crazr rumor was that evreything will be in the new 16gig ipod touch that itll have a camera a fm radio and mic so yeah there tons of difrent rumors :D:D:D:apple::)

[catracho]

Apple will discover that a lot of people will buy the 16 GB´s Zune and in a couple of months..surprise! 16 GB iPod Touch with camera at $199

[iPhone 62S]

Yup, I was right, the manufacturing issues made them pull the camera at the last minute.

It'll be in the forth gen.

[ditzy]

I hope it isn't a year before this happens.

[KnightWRX]

Apple will discover that a lot of people will buy the 16 GB´s Zune and in a couple of months..surprise! 16 GB iPod Touch with camera at $199

How does that even start to make sense ? You say : "A lot of people will buy a device without a camera" and then conclude that Apple will put out a device with a camera to compete with it ?

Seriously, I'm dumber from having read your post.

[SnowLeopardUser]

Steve Jobs has previously been quotes as saying the camera was not included to cut the price of the ipod touch as it is commonly seen as gaming device. Therefore that the reason. Old news! OCD anyone?

[iPhone 62S]

Steve Jobs has previously been quotes as saying the camera was not included to cut the price of the ipod touch as it is commonly seen as gaming device. Therefore that the reason. Old news! OCD anyone?

Of course he said that, he wouldn't go "all the devices we made didn't work so we had to take the camera out", would he?

Also, you clearly have no idea what OCD is...

[mrklaw]

Why are we still rehashing this?

It is already crystal clear. Apple planned to add cameras to the Touch and Nano, dropped the Touch one at the last minute due to technical difficulties. All of this has already been reported.

Not because of costs or differentiation. The differentiation is in the phone, not the camera--- Apple is trying to encourage App Store usage on both devices and many apps utilize the camera.

However, as Steve announced (considering how much you love Steve you don't seem to listen to him very much--- he flat out stated 10M in 2008 and that a 3G iPhone was in the works at MWSF 2007 yet people argued about those things endlessly as if they were mysteries) the iPod lineup is now set for the holiday season. The earliest a camera-outfitted Touch would debut is January.

oh really, so crystal clear?

if Apple were considering putting a camera in, that space looks like the nano camera. Perhaps they initially thought that a camera was a good idea, but then found out it wouldn't be compatible with all app store apps which might expect a higher resolution image to be returned to it, and therefore dropped it until they could work out a way to put a proper stills camera in

So not crystal clear - my theory above woudl suggest business reasons, not technical ones for dropping it.

[Ramashalanka]

wouldn't be compatible with all app store apps which might expect a higher resolution image to be returned to it, and therefore dropped it until they could work out a way to put a proper stills camera in

... my theory above woudl suggest business reasons, not technical ones for dropping it.

Looks like your theory comprises technical reasons, not business ones, to me.

[orangepickel]

I would say it is related to the rumored manufacturing issues. Apple wanted to make it available immediately, so they had to drop the camera.

[billystlyes]

And if elephants had wings, they could fly. At what point does this all become silly and pointless? Oh yeah, I'm on Macrumors. :rolleyes:

[3247]

If Apple added the camera, the iPod touch would come dangerously close to the iPhone. What justifies the price difference of several hundred $insert_favourite_currency if the only difference is the GSM/UMTS radio interface and the GPS. You can get separate devices for much less.
Apple has to keep the iPod touch well below the iPhone level – both price- and featurewise.

Maybe the iPod touch will get the 3.2 Mpx camera when the iPhone has gotten more features (eg front-facing video call camera, 5 Mpx camera with flash, mobile TV, …)

[SactoGuy18]

I still think Apple may release the 3G iPod touch with the camera in January 2010. And purchasers of the 3G iPod touch now at the Apple Store can bring their old iPod touch player to the store for a trade-in, where there will be a free service to move all your data from the old player to the new player at the retail location.

[MarcelV]

Ok... Before I make my comment, I make the disclaimer I am not a troll or M$ fanboy or anything... If you think that, read all of my earlier posts on this forum...

That said, am I the only one that think that the Zune HD is really clsoing a current gap, and the ipod touch options don't look that well? The previous generation 8GB iPod Touch for 199, or a 16GB Zune HD for 219?

Apple will need to have something up their sleeves, else may become not such a successful holiday season.
The Zune platform wasn't close to the iPod platform, but are now providing an reasonable alternative for non Mac users...

[Thex1138]

Well it now seems pretry apparent judging by the tear down and the apparent prototype that it wasn't a case of not wanting but more likely a case of engineering…
They may have left it out for now but dare I say that in the not too distant future given the genius of the miniaturization engineers that if they push new boundaries in smallness that they will provide a minor hardware revision in 3 to 6 months.
Jobsu said himself that they couldn't squeeze in a video with still camera with focal lense into nano…
so wait and see half glass fullers :D

[mrgreen4242]

Bottom line here is if the iPod Touch received a VGA camera the entire intarwebz would be going nuts because it would have been so substandard to the iPhone 3GS with still photos and higher quality (?) video. Why not just wait and do it right? No camera in iPod Touch til quality is on par or greater than iPhone.

Meh, VGA video and stills would have been fine by be, as long as the clarity was decent and colors bright, etc. I mean, back in the early 2000's I had a Sony digital camera that was "only" 1.3MP but out shot all the cheaper cameras of the day with 2.1 and 3MP. It had a better lens, basically. All I'd want to be able to do is record images for use on the iPod itself most likely, or upload to YouTube or a photoblog, etc. Places where 640x480 would be sufficient.

That said, now that we have to wait, I'm hoping we get the camera from the 3G. Even without (official) video. If the nano was a video recorder, the touch a decent still camera, and the 3GS did both of those with autofocus and more resolution I don't think anyone could complain. Of course, enabling video, even the frame rate was low or something, on the 3G camera would be nice, since we know it works (that's true, right? There's an unoffical app for video on the older iPods isn't there?)

[mrgreen4242]

Ok... Before I make my comment, I make the disclaimer I am not a troll or M$ fanboy or anything... If you think that, read all of my earlier posts on this forum...

That said, am I the only one that think that the Zune HD is really clsoing a current gap, and the ipod touch options don't look that well? The previous generation 8GB iPod Touch for 199, or a 16GB Zune HD for 219?

Apple will need to have something up their sleeves, else may become not such a successful holiday season.
The Zune platform wasn't close to the iPod platform, but are now providing an reasonable alternative for non Mac users...
I've not looked TOO closely at the Zune, but from what I gather, it's touch like a couple of neat, but not groundbreaking, features (HD radio tuner, and HD video output). What it lacks is the App Store. Without THE App Store, not just any app store, it's still just an iPod. If MS can't attract the same number and quality of developers that Apple has whatever they do with the device simply won't matter. (And for the record, I don't think they will).

[robogobo]

somebody is ***** with my head.

[mrgreen4242]

What I'm thinking may happen down the line is that the iPod touch is discontinued in favor of contract-free iPhones.

I think this is the end game as well. As the end of the Apple/ATT contract approaches the tech will get better and we'll see the iPhone slim down some and production costs will drop and the devices will merge. I think that the "touch" will stay but it'll be the nano. It'll be the slimmer, lighter model, cheaper, have the same number of pixels but on a smaller screen, less features (no cell, maybe no wifi, etc).

I also think that while Apple will dabble in being an VMNO or whatever that acronym is, like Boost. They'll re-sell network access from other network carriers. This will allow them to do some things no one else is doing - they could offer data only devices, with and without contracts. They could do a device with JUST texting access (I can see Apple using SMS/MMS to do things beyond the normal scope of the service).

[hashholly]

I still think Apple may release the 3G iPod touch with the camera in January 2010. And purchasers of the 3G iPod touch now at the Apple Store can bring their old iPod touch player to the store for a trade-in, where there will be a free service to move all your data from the old player to the new player at the retail location.

LOLOLOL. Thats never going to happen, i dont remember Apple allowing people to bring in their old 13" Unibody Macbook to get the new 13" Unibody Macbook Pro with the SD card slot, backlit keyboard, and less ****** screen.

Just not something Apple would do, or really any other manufacturer i can think of,

[Takuro]

I still think Apple may release the 3G iPod touch with the camera in January 2010. And purchasers of the 3G iPod touch now at the Apple Store can bring their old iPod touch player to the store for a trade-in, where there will be a free service to move all your data from the old player to the new player at the retail location.

And maybe Steve Jobs himself will come out with your new iPod cradled atop a blanket of the finest Japanese silk resting on a silver platter with your name engraved in diamonds.

[/sarcasm]

Ok, let me give you a nice, healthy dose of perspective: If Apple charged iPod users $10 just to update to the 3.0 firmware, which should have been free in the first place, then under what crazy circumstances would they give you a free trade-in for a device that costs at least $100-200 to make? Apple has never, and never will, give you something even semi-substantial for free. Maybe if you ask nicely, you'll get a few of those white Apple stickers, but that's it.

Besides, they'd lose more money than they'd ever gain. Not only are they in essence covering the manufacturing costs of the newer model for you, but they'd be left with hundreds of thousands of useless, barely-used, camera-less iPods. You may have never learned this in school, so let me spell this out for you: A company's main objective is to make a profit, unless they explicitly state that they're non-profit... I know this might hurt your brain a bit, but try to bear with me. In other words, they don't want to lose money. They want to make money. How? by charging for crap whenever feasible. In other words, no free trade-ins. Ever.

[/rant]

Ok, I feel this post has accomplished its main objective. Takuro out.

[philipt42]

That makes me kinda mad!
If I were to get a touch, 128 gigs would me nice, and so would a camera. Alas neither seems like it's gonna happen!

[Takuro]

That makes me kinda mad!
If I were to get a touch, 128 gigs would me nice, and so would a camera. Alas neither seems like it's gonna happen!

It will, but just not now. If you haven't noticed the general trend, the maximum amount of flash memory available in the Touch has doubled each year as a direct result of the steadily decreasing cost behind the technology.

Next year, the top model will probably reach 128GB.

However, technologies often have a "ceiling" - a.k.a., a maximum metric (metric means a measurement, such as GHz, GB, or anything else that designates a type of measurable aspect of a certain device) that can't be surpassed without ridiculous cost increase. Eventually, as with the iPod classic, which has been hovering at around 120-160GB for the last few years, the Touch will reach a maximal capacity and annual storage increases will start leveling off and becoming less dramatic. What exactly that maximum value is has yet to be determined, but I have a feeling it won't go too far past 128GB.

[wizard]

Very odd... I think we may see 2005 all over again. Nano first, Touch soon after. It just seems weird that they'd update the Touch at all before they add a camera... Even if the updates were minimal. There's gonna be a lot of angry iPod buyers.

I keep hearing this refrain about angry iPod purchasers and have to ask how could they possibly be angry after all the news surrounding this development? Frankly they can't and if they do, well to paraphrase my father; do you all need to have your head examined!

All the evidence is there to make an informed buying decision. If you are not willing to do that then don't come to me with whining and watery eyes. I'm not sure why everbody thinks this is a big deal anyways, personally I'd rather see GPS and a compass first. But I don't whine about it and frankly believe that Apple is atleast partially correct in trying to keep prices down. The problem with Apple is that they don't seem to realize that they can have different models.

In any event the new Touchs are a far better value than they where and I'm tempted to get me one. Maybe if the economy picks up. Oh buy the way that would be to supplement my iPhone which is thin on memory.

To go back and touch upon the different models comment, that was in reference to the Touch. Now I know Apple thinks that fact that they have different capacity devices means they have different models, this to me is BS. Up until this recent release they had one model of different capacities, now they have two. By being more flexible Apple could debut an iPod Touch that is thick enough to handle a decent camera and provide the added benefit of a thicker battery. If the have to they could add a few millimeters of length too. It would be far more impressive if they came out with a Touch built around a good camera. It is sort of like the A10 which is built around a nice gun. The problem is I can't see a run of the mill cell phone camera really making that good of an impression, especially if built upon Nano like hardware. If there is ever to be a Touch Camera model then make it be something Apple can be proud of. The last thing we need is a half baked Touch WITH camera device.


Dave

[commander.data]

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/10/ipod_touch_with_camera_remains_in_apples_pipeline.html

Appleinsider reported a few days ago that "sources" say Apple would still like to introduce the camera as soon as possible. That goes along nicely with technical problems being the culprit for the cut seeing the photo evidence shows that the 3rd gen iPod Touch was designed with the camera in mind. Certainly, besides the space for a camera, iPod Touch getting iPhone OS 3.1.1 while iPhones got vanilla iPhone OS 3.1 seem to indicate that some last minute revisions were needed just for the iPod Touch. Perhaps the close proximity of the camera/mic and the WiFi/Bluetooth chip caused interference which could be resolved with shielding or different camera/mic choice?

Steve Jobs' explanation of the Touch needing to be cheap could just be a smokescreen and delaying tactic. The cost of the Nano's camera is only going to be in the single digit dollar cost (the iPhone 3G S's autofocus camera costs $9.95 according to iSuppli) so it's highly doubtful that adding a camera would make the Touch unprofitable at the $299 and $399 price points. The reduced profit margins would probably be made up by the additional sales having the camera will bring. Similarly, if Apple was really wanting to drive iPod Touch sales by low prices, the 8GB 2nd gen iPod Touch could be sold cheaper than $199. Afterall, it maintained a $30 price delta with the 8GB iPhone 3G subsidized price when the iPhone 3G was $199, yet the delta has expanded to $100.

I think it's likely that the camera will be introduced in a mid-life January refresh of the 3rd gen iPod Touch. I can't see them doing it before the holidays since it would be disruptive to the supply channel at a critical time. But a post-Christmas introduction is definitely possible and would be similar to what was done to the 17" MacBook Pro which was updated but kept non-Unibody when the rest of the Unibodies were released last October, before being replaced with a 17" Unibody just 3 months later in January 2009. If the iTablet is released early next year as predicted, then it'd make sense to give the iPod Touch a mini-refresh whether in features or pricing, perhaps a silent one, at the same time to better realign the product lineup. I'm thinking the camera will be introduced for free for the 32GB and 64GB's $299 and $399 price points and a camera equipped 3rd gen iPod Touch with 16GB of memory will be introduced at $249 if the 8GB 2nd gen model is kept at $199 or the 8GB Touch could be discontinued and the 16GB 3rd gen Touch could debut at the regular $229 price to better compete with the Zune and perhaps a 32GB iPod Nano will be introduced at $199.

Even if it uses the same camera hardware, I'm hoping to differentiate the iPod Touch's camera from the Nano's, the Touch could get photo capability which can probably be helped with software enhancement using the Touch's better processor. The Touch could probably leverage the motion compensation algorithms developed for iMovie.

I'm guessing that the 3rd gen iPod Touch didn't get a digital compass or the oleophobic screen coating? These would both be sensible additions where the coating goes to the quality perception of Apple products, while the digital compass could use wider adoption as a complementary control method with the accelerometer. Beyond the obvious compass direction applications, I would think more advanced algorithms could use the digital compass data to assist the accelerometer is detecting and refining how the device position is changing leading to more accurate controls in things like games (supposedly the Touch's selling point), which can only be a good thing.

Seeing all the rumours before of the iPhone getting dual cameras, namely a new camera on the screen side for video chat, I think it's likely that this feature will be coming in the fourth gen iPhone and will be using the iPod Nano's camera. There is no need for the thicker or higher quality 3MP autofocus camera since the Nano's camera seems decent enough for video chat and the thinner size will allow integration without taking up too much space. The faster processor on the iPhone could also be used for motion compensation and other enhancements to improve the image.

[wizard]

, but I have a feeling it won't go too far past 128GB…with current technology Flash. Hopefully by the time Flash levels out we will see new tech come on line to replace it.

As to Flash hitting the wall that will happen sooner than some want to believe. So don't expect high capacity devices to keep their small size in the future. After Flash hits maximal density the only solutions are more chips on board or stacked chips to increase a devices capacity.


Dave

[wizard]

The new Nintendo DS just got a camera. Sorry about calling jobs a liar. I just think there is more to this story than meets the eye.

Of course there is but no body at Apple would be insane enough to discuss it publically. At this moment we don't know if this is a supplier issue, an Apple engineering issue or somebody in the front office calling the feature crap.

Frankly knowing that Steve is back I kinda lean towards massive dissatisfaction with the camera. Knowing what I do about this sort of hardware I'd have to say that the pics where likely pretty bad. That however shouldn't be interpeted as discounting other reported reasons which may have a real basis.


Still love Apple--this just doesn't sit right with me.

What doesn't sit right with you? Really I'd like to know. Apple had a deadlinethey had to meet, that is the Sept. Introduction of the new line up. Everything meet QA expectations except for the Touch so they followed a contingency plan and pulled the camera. Now people are upset because Apple has sound QA and won't let sub par hardware on the market? Really I don't get your attitude at all. Would you have preferred a Touch with a sub par camera? Please tell us why Apple trying to maintain quality doesn't sit well with you.

What is sad about this whole thing is that most people wouldn't have even cared if it wasn't for the leaks getting their hopes up. Thus Apples tight security. If you want to complain take your concerns to the people posting and harboring the leaks. It is not Apples fault you git hoodwinked into believing an alternate reality. I just don't understand this anger with Apple as they have had nothing to do with getting your hopes up or priming your wants for features that are not coming.

Note that I like this forum and others because I can with others speculate about future Apple hardware; tablets and XMac for example. However notice the word speculate and look up what it means. There is an almost infinite set of possible hardware configurations for such devices, even if some of us had inside info ( which we don't) describing any future Apple product exactly is impossible. Until Apple blessed hardware hits the shelf it is ALL SPECULATION. Got that? Informed speculation at times and other times pure fantasy.


Dave

[KnightWRX]

I still think Apple may release the 3G iPod touch with the camera in January 2010.

Maybe.

And purchasers of the 3G iPod touch now at the Apple Store can bring their old iPod touch player to the store for a trade-in, where there will be a free service to move all your data from the old player to the new player at the retail location.

If you truly believe this however, you are a raving lunatic. What would they do with an enormous back stock of refurbs ? No, if the iPod Touch with a camera even comes out in January (which with Jobs' comments in the interview probably won't) it will show up on the store and in retail locations and that will be it. People who bought the current 3G iPod Touch will get nothing if they want to trade up.

[Vulpinemac]

An article came out just the day before that a significant percentage of one camera-equipped model was having difficulties--no explanation of which model or what kind of problem. Isn't it at least a reasonable analysis that the camera-equipped iPod Touch was held until they could resolve the issue?

[wizard]

What I'm thinking may happen down the line is that the iPod touch is discontinued in favor of contract-free iPhones.

Just why would they do that. Those cell chips and IP are not exactly free you know. Beyound that they just use to much power. Rather I see Apple adding to the iPod Touch line up, there is lots of room for alternative model sizes and feature configurations.


Dave

[hapa5]

Im just glad that there is the 64gb ipod touch now.

[wizard]

First; everthing that a CEO or other management person at Apple will say at a meeting like this is carefully planned marketing. So get over what has been said.

Second; no company goes into a major refresh like this with out contingency planning. Ever indication right now is that one of these plans was activated at the last moment due to camera problems.

Third; no company, Apple included, wants to lay it's failures before the public eye. What ever the problem they will either correct it or scrap plans for a Touch camera. If the problem is solvable it will mean a new Touch soon afterward. Either way we will never hear the full details though official channels. At best a low level employee might spill the beans down the road some.

Fourth; the perception that Apple is screwing us is simply ridiculous. This sort of screw up is expensive and often leads to heavily strained relations with suppliers.

Fifth; nobody on this forum can reasonable complain about a camera based Touch debuting in the near future. If you don't understand what is written here then that is your problem. Further if the intention was to ship Touch with a camera the last thing Apple will do is to wait until September of next year to ship if they can resolve the problem.

Sixth; it looks to me like everybody on this forum is already primed to complain about the Touches camera when it does arrive. This leads to the unescapeable conclusion that people here don't care about the Touch but are pathetic whinners that really have never experienced life. If you think running a business is that easy then go out and start one of your own. I can assure you it is not a slick and bountiful path to riches. No matter the business there are always glitches.

Seventh; I bet every man & woman here, that is whinning so pathetically voted for Obama. He like the whinners here, are all part of the blame business for my pesonal misfortune culture.

If you guys could only hear yourselves.



Dave

[SeattleMoose]

NOBODY!!!

Now everyone knows to wait...coz its worth the wait.

[celtikmind]

First; everthing that a CEO or other management person at Apple will say at a meeting like this is carefully planned marketing. So get over what has been said.

Second; no company goes into a major refresh like this with out contingency planning. Ever indication right now is that one of these plans was activated at the last moment due to camera problems.

Third; no company, Apple included, wants to lay it's failures before the public eye. What ever the problem they will either correct it or scrap plans for a Touch camera. If the problem is solvable it will mean a new Touch soon afterward. Either way we will never hear the full details though official channels. At best a low level employee might spill the beans down the road some.

Fourth; the perception that Apple is screwing us is simply ridiculous. This sort of screw up is expensive and often leads to heavily strained relations with suppliers.

Fifth; nobody on this forum can reasonable complain about a camera based Touch debuting in the near future. If you don't understand what is written here then that is your problem. Further if the intention was to ship Touch with a camera the last thing Apple will do is to wait until September of next year to ship if they can resolve the problem.

Sixth; it looks to me like everybody on this forum is already primed to complain about the Touches camera when it does arrive. This leads to the unescapeable conclusion that people here don't care about the Touch but are pathetic whinners that really have never experienced life. If you think running a business is that easy then go out and start one of your own. I can assure you it is not a slick and bountiful path to riches. No matter the business there are always glitches.

Seventh; I bet every man & woman here, that is whinning so pathetically voted for Obama. He like the whinners here, are all part of the blame business for my pesonal misfortune culture.

If you guys could only hear yourselves.



Dave

You had a good argument until 'seventh'. You seem to hear yourself but do you listen?

[KnightWRX]

NOBODY!!!

Now everyone knows to wait...coz its worth the wait.

What's crippled about the Touch ? The fact it lacks a camera ? No, Apple never promised a camera, never shipped a Touch with a camera and so the current Touch is not crippled. It had exactly nothing removed from it. The current Touch is the current Touch. A faster device than the previous generation with more storage at lower price points.

[only1one]

I'm wondering why does it has a hole for the mic right next to the camera, if the touch already has a mic.

[xterryx]

Ipod touch 2g/ ipod touch touch 3g w/ camera?

8gb 199/229 with camera
32 gb 299/329 with camera
64 gb 399/429 with camera???

maybe two models, the ones they just released, and then the ones they just released with a camera... not sure though

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I'm wondering why does it has a hole for the mic right next to the camera, if the touch already has a mic.

I don't think the touch does have a mic...

[DrawnToLife]

The second prices you listed is what we pay in Canada :P.
Probably because of our dollar.
And, I thought the Touch only had a mic in the headphones, but I may be wrong.

[Brien]

Seeing all the rumours before of the iPhone getting dual cameras, namely a new camera on the screen side for video chat, I think it's likely that this feature will be coming in the fourth gen iPhone and will be using the iPod Nano's camera. There is no need for the thicker or higher quality 3MP autofocus camera since the Nano's camera seems decent enough for video chat and the thinner size will allow integration without taking up too much space. The faster processor on the iPhone could also be used for motion compensation and other enhancements to improve the image.

I think that's very probable.

And no, the touch doesn't have an internal mic. Only line-in support.

[morizzzzz]

Apple knows well enough that Nano will become a niche product, and it will eventually be replaced by ipod touch or iphone. They see it coming and they are trying to slow this trend down by adding a camera exclusively for the nano to keep its sales up. Who's to buy this year's nano if touch gets a camera also? I, for one, will go for the touch w/ a camera hands down, giving that i had last years nano. But do Apple really want you to buy their ipod touch? Or they'd rather you just get an iphone instead? Not to mention the rumored upcoming 6inch enhanced featured ipod touch/reader thing, how will apple market this tablet toy if everyone got a touch which will run on the same os and will handle 99% of its tasks and costs 300-500 cheaper? Most likely a camera on touch will not happen before the tablet.

[bretm]

I don't get the confusion. It was right here on the home page a few weeks ago that Apple was rumored to be having trouble with the Camera module on the touch and that they had to pull back thousands of units. Has everyone forgotten that story? I haven't seen anyone mention it. So, duh. They yanked the camera and lowered the price and said they are focusing on it as a gaming machine. It might actually be a decent idea to get some added difference between the product line, but I'm guessing they'll add a camera with a slightly higher price than the previous model. Once cheaper, one higher.

[NT1440]

NOBODY!!!

Now everyone knows to wait...coz its worth the wait.

Your definition of everyone is laughable.

[Plutonius]

Hmm, I wonder why Apple decided to not include the camera?

This is very interesting indeed.

Because either

1) Apple decided that it would eat into iPhone sales (marketing decision). If that is the case, you have to wait till Microsoft puts a camera in the Zune before you will see one in the iPod Touch

or

2) The camera from the iPhone will not fit in the iPod Touch (fact) so the only camera Apple could fit in would be the poor video camera from the nano.

Apple made the decision not to put a camera in the iPod Touch.

[Plutonius]

I don't get the confusion. It was right here on the home page a few weeks ago that Apple was rumored to be having trouble with the Camera module on the touch and that they had to pull back thousands of units. Has everyone forgotten that story? I haven't seen anyone mention it. So, duh. They yanked the camera and lowered the price and said they are focusing on it as a gaming machine. It might actually be a decent idea to get some added difference between the product line, but I'm guessing they'll add a camera with a slightly higher price than the previous model. Once cheaper, one higher.

It takes more then a few weeks to remove the camera (new enclosure, tooling, etc) in a production environment and produce / ship the quantity of iPod Touch for release last week.

The camera is not in the iPod Touch because Apple decided not to add a video camera to it.

[twoodcc]

yeah i think they will eventually release a touch with a camera

[azentropy]

Whatever reason, Apple chose not to put a camera in the final version of this generation iPod Touch. I really hope it was a manufacturing issue and not a marketing one. A manufacturing issue can be overcome and means it will be coming. If it was a marketing one... well we know how stubborn Apple is with changing those...

It made it an easy decision for me to pass on this generation as that was a feature I was looking for from the iPhone 3Gs to be included.

I have an iPhone 3G and am not eligible for a inexpensive upgrade yet. A Touch with the video capabilities would have allowed me to play/develop with until I could upgrade. Then I would have just passed it on to my family when I do upgrade my iPhone.

[SiXAXiS]

YES! im getting this as soon as it comes out! i need something new, my 1g is slowly dieing...

[bretm]

It takes more then a few weeks to remove the camera (new enclosure, tooling, etc) in a production environment and produce / ship the quantity of iPod Touch for release last week.

The camera is not in the iPod Touch because Apple decided not to add a video camera to it.

That's just when the rumor came about. Who knows when the event and decision actually occured. Could've been 3 months ago. But the bottom line rumor was that there was a problem with the camera and that it might delay the touch. Instead, clearly, they just scrapped the camera from the design at the last minute and marketed it differently.

[torbjoern]

Geez, what is all this fuzz about? Camera in an iPod? I would feel embarrassed to purchase any media-player that came with a built-in camera.

[RazHyena]

Because either

1) Apple decided that it would eat into iPhone sales (marketing decision). If that is the case, you have to wait till Microsoft puts a camera in the Zune before you will see one in the iPod Touch

or

2) The camera from the iPhone will not fit in the iPod Touch (fact) so the only camera Apple could fit in would be the poor video camera from the nano.

Apple made the decision not to put a camera in the iPod Touch.

Now I'm starting to feel that they wanted to increase sales of Nanos by withholding the camera from the touch? :confused:

The Nano is going to sell very well this season. It will be interesting to see how the new Zune fairs this time around.

[michael.lauden]

Now I'm starting to feel that they wanted to increase sales of Nanos by withholding the camera from the touch? :confused:

The Nano is going to sell very well this season. It will be interesting to see how the new Zune fairs this time around.

i don't think it will be interesting at all. i am pretty sure the same thing will happen, the iPod will outsell the zune.

[CQd44]

Geez, what is all this fuzz about? Camera in an iPod? I would feel embarrassed to purchase any media-player that came with a built-in camera.

Well, the iPod touch is a bit more than a media player now.

For the nano... ehhhhhh. You got me there.

[wackymacky]

No offense but it sounds like you know nothing about marketing.

No offence taken, but Jobs whould have known that withing an hour of release someone would disect the iPods and post pics and all across the internet bepole will be having these discussions.

It just makes him look a little silly.

[Mr. Gates]

Cant wait to see all the filth uploaded to the net now that every braindead co-ed with a Nano can take slutty vids :):p:):p

[NT1440]

No offence taken, but Jobs whould have known that withing an hour of release someone would disect the iPods and post pics and all across the internet bepole will be having these discussions.

It just makes him look a little silly.

Why? Us tech nerds are in the extreme minority when it comes to Apples customer base, something alot of you always seem to forget here.

[na1577]

Now I'm starting to feel that they wanted to increase sales of Nanos by withholding the camera from the touch?

That doesn't make sense though. The touch is more expensive than the nano, which means more money for Apple. It doesn't matter where the money comes from. The only reason why it would matter is if Apple had a higher profit margin on the nano, which I'm not sure if they do.

[Plutonius]

That's just when the rumor came about. Who knows when the event and decision actually occured. Could've been 3 months ago. But the bottom line rumor was that there was a problem with the camera and that it might delay the touch. Instead, clearly, they just scrapped the camera from the design at the last minute and marketed it differently.

Steve Jobs returned and didn't like the idea of the video camera in the iPod touch.

[tabasco70]

It was probably that 'technical' problem they had, or something of that sort that forced them to remove the cameras.

[trrosen]

my bet is they had the same camera in the touch as the nano and Steve came back and ripped someone a new one for it. Why! because that camera would look so pathetic compared to the iPhones there would be more complaining then there is now about the lack of a camera.

My guess… touch with the iPhones camera in January!

[NC MacGuy]

Geez, what is all this fuzz about? Camera in an iPod? I would feel embarrassed to purchase any media-player that came with a built-in camera.

Well just think of it as a 10% larger screen, FM radio, pedometer and a price cut added to a media player.

[Thex1138]

Seventh; I bet every man & woman here, that is whinning so pathetically voted for Obama. He like the whinners here, are all part of the blame business for my pesonal misfortune culture.
Dave

So it's a political statement that Obama has to clean up after Bush?
Or that Bush wanted universal health care for the rebuilt Iraq but not the US?
Or that Americans are marching AGAINST a universal health but not happy to burn billion$ on invasions and unwinnable wars?

[Bubba Satori]

So it's a political statement that Obama has to clean up after Bush?
Or that Bush wanted universal health care for the rebuilt Iraq but not the US?
Or that Americans are marching AGAINST a universal health but not happy to burn billion$ on invasions and unwindable wars?

This isn't the place for this. Thanks.

[MacFly123]

something is telling me we are going to see a camera very soon....:D:D:D:D;)

isn't best buy accepting pre-orders for camera protection cases for the ipod touch 3G on Oct 14th!;)

They won't release it too soon or else they will have tons of pissed off customers. They also won't wait until next year because that is just too long. I'll bet anything they will refresh it in January after the holidays!

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

So it's a political statement that Obama has to clean up after Bush?
Or that Bush wanted universal health care for the rebuilt Iraq but not the US?
Or that Americans are marching AGAINST a universal health but not happy to burn billion$ on invasions and unwindable wars?

What is an UNWINDABLE war? Is that some sort of fancy time phrase I haven't heard of yet.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Seventh; I bet every man & woman here, that is whinning so pathetically voted for Obama. He like the whinners here, are all part of the blame business for my pesonal misfortune culture.

If you guys could only hear yourselves.



Dave

It's just an iPod, man. No need to make this a political debate.

although I like that you call people who voted for Obama "whinners". I know you meant "whiners" but it's true, we are all winners. ;)

[jjesusfreak01]

No offense but it sounds like you know nothing about marketing.

Apple doesn't market. They spend lots of money creating and protecting their image, and then all of their fanboys buy the stuff without a second thought just because it's Apple.

[NC MacGuy]

Apple doesn't market. They spend lots of money creating and protecting their image, and then all of their fanboys buy the stuff without a second thought just because it's Apple.

Their secrecy is their marketing. Why do you think they guard it so diligently?

[roski11]

Cant wait to see all the filth uploaded to the net now that every braindead co-ed with a Nano can take slutty vids :):p:):p

YESSSSSS, I didn't even think about that. score

BTW, I dont agree with anything that the AI people said. Why would Apple add a camera and make it a silent update ?? Why would they add the compass video and all the other stuff a few months after the ipod media event.

[macshill]

Steve Jobs has previously been quotes as saying the camera was not included to cut the price of the ipod touch as it is commonly seen as gaming device. Therefore that the reason. Old news! OCD anyone?

He's a liar (Jobs). The Nintendo DSI IS a gaming machine and it has a camera.

So I'm going to laugh when they release an ad touting the marvels of 'a gaming machine and a camera machine in one! (*ping*)' for the Touch, when it was already done by someone else. Just like in their latest iPhone SG3 doing telling you you're able to now do things that other phones have done for years now. But because it's from Apple, it's all of a suddenly revolutionary. :rolleyes: Typical Kool-Aid drinking Apple expects.

[dwu182]

What is an UNWINDABLE war? Is that some sort of fancy time phrase I haven't heard of yet.

FYI, when you solely attack someone's grammar or spelling, it makes you look stupid because you haven't attacked the substance of their argument.

Please guys, this is an Apple forum, chill out.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

He's a liar (Jobs). The Nintendo DSI IS a gaming machine and it has a camera.

So I'm going to laugh when they release an ad touting the marvels of 'a gaming machine and a camera machine in one! (*ping*)' for the Touch, when it was already done by someone else. Just like in their latest iPhone SG3 doing telling you you're able to now do things that other phones have done for years now. But because it's from Apple, it's all of a suddenly revolutionary. :rolleyes: Typical Kool-Aid drinking Apple expects.

It was pretty cute when Sir Stevey said something to the affect of:
"Why is the iPod touch a better gaming device? Because it has multitouch, the app store and iPod built in"

Okay Steve, but how does an app store and an iPod make it better at GAMING?

[MagnusVonMagnum]

It's not entirely clear why the camera was dropped from the iPod Touch, though

Given Steve's attitude about leaked previews, he probably dropped it just to make the rumor false. I still wonder if that's why ZFS was dropped. I remember how ticked he got when that guy from Sun leaked the information first. Steve is one of the most arrogant and stubborn people on the planet. He strikes me as one of those people who takes credit for other people's ideas for some odd reason.

[McBeats]

they will put them in the new 16gb's that will come out soon... the 32 and 64gb had too much space takin up to fit a cam perhaps?

[peterdevries]

I think it's time to drop this whole camera thing. It didn't happen, it's not the end of the world, there are dozens of devices out there with a camera if you really do need one. Let's face it, the iPod touch wasn't going to be the pinnacle of photography.

This argument is really getting old.. We all know that there are better camera's than the ones found in the iPhone or any other camera for that matter. No one has the aspirations to become a professional photographer with a new iPod Touch with a camera.

There are many people that find such a camera very useful. Ever heard of convergence or of the convenience of not carrying around two but one device?

[peterdevries]

Fourth; the perception that Apple is screwing us is simply ridiculous. This sort of screw up is expensive and often leads to heavily strained relations with suppliers.

I wonder if we will hear anything from the case manufacturers. They must have received a memorandum from Apple regarding the Touch. I can't imagine that they are as much in the dark as the customers..


Sixth; it looks to me like everybody on this forum is already primed to complain about the Touches camera when it does arrive.

True, just look at Engadget. If Apple would introduce a new iPhone with specs like the Pixie it would be third world war.



Seventh; I bet every man & woman here, that is whinning so pathetically voted for Obama. He like the whinners here, are all part of the blame business for my pesonal misfortune culture.

Too bad. Some of your points actually made sense. We are not all from the US, so couldn't all have voted for Obama, and even if we would have that doesn't make it relevant to this discussion. A stupid way to get your points across if you ask me.

[4D4M]

Apple doesn't market. They spend lots of money creating and protecting their image, and then all of their fanboys buy the stuff without a second thought just because it's Apple.

Funniest post ever. So everyone who went out and bought an iPod was a "fanboy", even though the vast majority of them had never used a Mac? I think you'll find quite a few of them were new to Apple!

Even those of us who were Apple fanboys questioned the sanity of our beloved computer company bringing out an MP3 player, but Apple proved us wrong. Through a good user experience and some very clever marketing we saw it rise to the top of the pile.

[Meandmunch]

Perhaps we will see it updated before Christmas? Like sometime in November to pad their Holiday sales. Your not going to update it at Macworld because that show belongs to the Tablet.

[hayesk]

Here's my take:
Apple was going to release it with a camera but decided not for one of the following reasons:
- production problem prevented Apple from getting enough sensors
- HD sensors are coming down in price, but not down enough. Apple's waiting to add HD video recording in the iPod touch, and new iPhone (3GSV?)

[alent1234]

Here's my take:
Apple was going to release it with a camera but decided not for one of the following reasons:
- production problem prevented Apple from getting enough sensors
- HD sensors are coming down in price, but not down enough. Apple's waiting to add HD video recording in the iPod touch, and new iPhone (3GSV?)

the 3GS can already do 720p recording. it was discovered when it was first torn apart after release. Apple just crippled the hardware with the iphone OS.

[Kmad86]

now I want to take this touch apart even more to see exactly what the camera looks like.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

This argument is really getting old.. We all know that there are better camera's than the ones found in the iPhone or any other camera for that matter. No one has the aspirations to become a professional photographer with a new iPod Touch with a camera.

There are many people that find such a camera very useful. Ever heard of convergence or of the convenience of not carrying around two but one device?

A forward facing camera would be nice for video calls.... It amazes me how basic the idea of a video call is even in old Sci-Fi shows, yet it's virtually non-existent today or the frame rates are so slow across the Net that it might as well be, but the iPhone and iPod Touch could make that a common thing pretty quickly with iChat built-in, but forget about it. It's now a gaming device so forget about non-gaming features. Although even there, it sucks because I find most games don't play all that well without dedicated controls. For example, trying to tap a glass screen to make flippers flip on Pinball Dreams is pretty shoddy at best and in vertical mode, your fingers are covering the screen where you're playing half the time. If they're going to go with the "gaming device" theme, they could at least offer the new versions with a dedicated game pad and buttons so it's easier to control for games that don't lend themselves well to screen tapping.

[Ram Mac]

They for sure need to add a camera to the ipod touch but what is with the ipod nano shooting video. Is that necessary? Probably not but a nice addition