Microsoft Launches Zune HD

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/15/microsoft-launches-zune-hd/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/09/15/111635-zune_family_500.jpg

Microsoft today officially launched (http://www.zune.net:80/en-us/press/2009/0915-zunelaunch.htm) the Zune HD, the company's next-generation touchscreen media player designed to compete directly against Apple's iPod touch. Originally announced in May (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/05/26/microsoft-confirms-multi-touch-zune-hd-in-compete-against-ipod-touch/), the Zune HD is available in 16 GB ($219.99 in black) and 32 GB ($289.99 in platinum) capacities.Zune HD marks a significant step forward for portable media players, combining powerful hardware components such as an organic light-emitting diode (OLED) multitouch screen, an NVIDIA Tegra HD processor and HD Radio capabilities with software advancements such as the new Quickplay menu, a well-featured Web browser, and engaging music and video playback features to deliver a new portable listening and viewing experience. Quickplay is a new signature menu for Zune, putting customers one touch away from the content they love, such as favorites, last played items and media most recently added, eliminating the need to dig through menus to find the music, videos, pictures or podcasts they want.Microsoft has also confirmed that the company will be adding games and other applications to the Zune Marketplace for use on the Zune HD.Later this year, Zune plans to release free applications such as Twitter for Zune and Facebook for Zune, in addition to fun 3-D games such as "Project Gotham Racing: Ferrari Edition," "Vans Sk8: Pool Service" and "Audiosurf™ Tilt." Games can be added to Zune HD via Zune Marketplace over the Wi-Fi connection or when connected to the Zune PC software.Wired offers a first-look review (http://www.wired.com/reviews/product/pr_zune_hd_first) of the new device, finding it a worthy competitor to the iPod touch with solid potential, but in need of additional features such as Mac support, greater video offerings, and of course a robust application store.

Article Link: Microsoft Launches Zune HD (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/15/microsoft-launches-zune-hd/)

[macandipodfan]

Doesn't look too good for me. I'd rather have an iPod Touch any day.

I wonder how well it'll sell.

[theheadguy]

Missing a camera and another step behind the big apple. Although, the OLED screen looks very clear and bright; a noticable improvement over the competition.

[DipDog3]

This has been rumored for months hasn't it?

Cause I swear I have seen it before...

[kurosov]

Funny how this significant step forward only has one thing to offer the touch/iphone doesn't. The oled screen.

I think i'll stick with my iPhone and be happy.

[audioteknika]

Let the fanboys flame start..

[rwilliams]

Looks like a nice device, but I doubt I'd ever buy one. Still, competition is good.

[brad.c]

Interesting to see how MS will find marketshare when Apple has reported a drop in music device sales.

[slapppy]

Lets see it in daylight, outside use.

[dvkid]

Funny how this significant step forward only has one thing to offer the touch/iphone doesn't. The oled screen.

And HD radio. Even the Nano only has FM. Though if you've got an iPhone the need for a radio receiver is null.

[Teh Don Ditty]

Missing a camera and another step behind the big apple. Although, the OLED screen looks very clear and bright; a noticable improvement over the competition.

How is it another step behind Apple? The Zune's internals are way ahead of Apple at this stage.

[Angelchild]

OLED screen are NOT better than LCD from the battery perspective and are bad with blacks if you are at open air.

Read this ---> From oled to tegra: five myths of the zune hd. (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/14/from_oled_to_tegra_five_myths_of_the_zune_hd.html)

Oled, tegra, ecc..all things that are only marketing 'cause without "booming words" ms can not compete neither with its 1,1%.

Uh...and no real innovation.

In just one word: microsoft.

[Spades]

Missing a camera and another step behind the big apple.

Yep. When Apple released the iPod Touch with a camera, the Zune HD instantly fell behind.

Oh, I forgot...

[jglavin]

I just wish HD radio wasn't proprietary. Hopefully it is eventually opened or superseded by an open standard.

[Surely]

Looks slick.

Hopefully they sell enough of them to cause Apple to take notice and feel a little threatened.


I'll probably stop by a Best Buy this week to play with one.

[dejo]

Microsoft has also confirmed that the company will be adding games and other applications to the Zune Marketplace for use on the Zune HD.
Shouldn't that be "marketplac∈"? ;)

[Perrumpo]

These are some odd price points.

I think most people will go for the $199 Touch, even if it is only 8GB.

[winterspan]

The Nvidia Tegra chipset used in the Zune HD really isn't anything special. it has two ARM11 cores running at ~600mhz (Which is not even as fast as the single Cortex-A8 core in the iPhone 3GS/iPod Touch V3). No one knows the specifics of the GPU yet, but I'd be surprised if it was much faster than the PowerVR SGX535 in the 3GS/Touchv3.

Similarly, Apple's samsung chipset is readily capable of playing back HD 720P video. It is Apple that is limiting the 3GS to standard definition and stupid analog video out. I love my iPhone 3GS, but I'm really surprised It can't playback HD video, and even more surprised It doesn't have a digital output for connecting HDMI to a TV.

[Lesser Evets]

This would have been great if MS did it like Windows--spy, rip off, and release before Apple.

However, this is just a good try in the same direction a couple years later and behind the innovator. Still, in years to come this Zune will probably catch up and mimic the iPT fairly precisely within a couple months of new iPT releases.

[NT1440]

Missing a camera and another step behind the big apple. Although, the OLED screen looks very clear and bright; a noticable improvement over the competition.

only in a dark room....

[Mattie Num Nums]

How is it another step behind Apple? The Zune's internals are way ahead of Apple at this stage.

Because just like the gift that keeps getting repackaged every year at Christmas and given to a new family member... Apple has the prettiest packaging.

What do I mean by that? Apple hasn't done anything significant hardware wise in years they just keep making things prettier.

[herbalizer]

Yawn, another MS product for people who are too stupid to buy Apple products.

[Shasterball]

Easy fanboys. This is pretty cool, although it needs to catch up regarding e.g., app store.

But I like the competition. I like it a lot.

[ingenious]

Wow, that's probably the best looking Zune yet. It'd be great if it actually provided some competition to Apple... they have a tendency to get stagnant.

Still, I think I'll stick with my iPod touch :D

[twoodcc]

we'll see how it does. the app store is where it'll really fall short

[rKunda]

These are some odd price points.

I think most people will go for the $199 Touch, even if it is only 8GB.

Yeah, I agree. I'd have expected a price to directly compete with the touch, but I'd have been wrong!

It looks cool. No idea how well it works. Hopefully it does well, if for nothing else to push Apple a little bit.

[phinsup]

They still don't have the software to back it up.

[Teh Don Ditty]

Because just like the gift that keeps getting repackaged every year at Christmas and given to a new family member... Apple has the prettiest packaging.

What do I mean by that? Apple hasn't done anything significant hardware wise in years they just keep making things prettier.

That I know. See the touch update for this year. Twas lame. The touch will get a camera next year and it will be hailed as revolutionary.

[talkingfuture]

Read the Appleinsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/14/from_oled_to_tegra_five_myths_of_the_zune_hd.html) article earlier - pretty scathing. Can't say anything about this would make me replace my touch. Good to see some competition to keep Apple sharp though.

[Darkroom]

i was told this is not available in Canada... if that's true, that's some serious failing on MS's part...

[pmeisman]

I played with one last night as we were putting them up on display... It's a POS. I hated it! The screen is jumpy, it doesn't actually have HD onboard, you have to output to an HDTV. Once again Microsoft Over promises, and under delivers. I wish they would do the world a favor and just make par for the course office software and gaming systems. Leave the rest of the tech market to organizations that know quality and design.

Interestingly enough, I gave a customer who had told me he wasn't on the iPod band wagon, and was waiting for the Zune HD, the opportunity to play with the device last night... He handed it back to me and said, "It's not what I expected. It's way smaller, and feels cheap. Let me see the iPod Touch". Needless to say, he walked out with an iPod Touch 16GB in hand.:apple:

[NT1440]

What do I mean by that? Apple hasn't done anything significant hardware wise in years they just keep making things prettier.

They just did. But your talking camera (which would have been nice) or a pretty new case right?:rolleyes:

[zombitronic]

Lets see it in daylight, outside use.

I would think that the dim OLED will be one of the biggest complaints of the device. I'm a big fan of the possibilities of OLEDs but most of what I've read about them concludes that they're not where they need to be just yet, from a consumer standpoint. In bullet points, OLED sounds impressive. In reality, it's not ready for prime time. They're hard to see in sunlight. The short life span of current OLED displays isn't something to look forward to, either.

[Povilas]

Microsoft today officially launched Zune HD. Who cares? I'd like to see OLED screens in Apples pipeline sometime soon after OLED is tested with Zune and Sony PMPs though :)

[HLdan]

As much as I hate Microsoft I don't have much negative to say about this device, but I will say this, in the very words of many PC fanboys in the past and present ignorant ones, "Why buy a Mac, there's no software for it?" In this case, the Zune Marketplace sux, it doesn't even have a slight fraction of the applications in the store, very little software support since it only runs from the Zune Marketplace which is Windows only. I need a device that I can do a lot with in terms of how it's supported and the iPod Touch kicks the Zune's butt. I don't care what the PC fanboys say or the people who are pissed at Apple for not putting a silly camera in the iPod Touch and then throw out the fake threats that they will buy a Zune, what's the point of using something with very little software support? It just ends up a paperweight. :p

[Cinematographer]

Yawn, another MS product for people who are too stupid to buy Apple products.

Or for people who are too stupid to live in the US? :rolleyes:

[philgilder]

i was told this is not available in Canada... if that's true, that's some serious failing on MS's part...
Its only available in the US and to windows customers

I played with one last night as we were putting them up on display... It's a POS. I hated it! The screen is jumpy, it doesn't actually have HD onboard, you have to output to an HDTV. Once again Microsoft Over promises, and under delivers. I wish they would do the world a favor and just make par for the course office software and gaming systems. Leave the rest of the tech market to organizations that know quality and design.
you expect HD video on a screen that small? There is no way you would be able to see all the detail in the video, so there is nothing microsoft has done wrong there

[Warbrain]

Missing a camera and another step behind the big apple. Although, the OLED screen looks very clear and bright; a noticable improvement over the competition.

The OLED is nice. But I don't know how you can complain about there being no camera when the iPod touch doesn't have one, either.

Funny how this significant step forward only has one thing to offer the touch/iphone doesn't. The oled screen.

I think i'll stick with my iPhone and be happy.

Someone else already said HD radio which is nice. If you've got an iPhone you wouldn't need a Zune HD or an iPod touch.

I played with one last night as we were putting them up on display... It's a POS. I hated it! The screen is jumpy, it doesn't actually have HD onboard, you have to output to an HDTV. Once again Microsoft Over promises, and under delivers. I wish they would do the world a favor and just make par for the course office software and gaming systems. Leave the rest of the tech market to organizations that know quality and design.

Interestingly enough, I gave a customer who had told me he wasn't on the iPod band wagon, and was waiting for the Zune HD, the opportunity to play with the device last night... He handed it back to me and said, "It's not what I expected. It's way smaller, and feels cheap. Let me see the iPod Touch". Needless to say, he walked out with an iPod Touch 16GB in hand.:apple:

Are you sure they had 4.0 on them? The software was just pushed last night. Wouldn't surprise me if the demo units weren't up to date.

The extra output needed to do HD was known when it was announced.

I'm excited to see what the Zune HD can do.

I would also love to see a Zune marketplace for the Mac because the subscription model isn't that bad.

[weg]

Missing a camera and another step behind the big apple. Although, the OLED screen looks very clear and bright; a noticable improvement over the competition.

Because, as we all know, the iPod touch has a camera since last Tuesday, right? :D
Stupid Microsoft. So far behind Apple. How did they even dare to release a device without a camera?

[Burnsey]

I greatly prefer the iTouch as well.

[NT1440]

Because, as we all know, the iPod touch has a camera since last Tuesday, right? :D
Stupid Microsoft. So far behind Apple. How did they even dare to release a device without a camera?

I think he was saying both companies were stupid to not throw a camera in seeing as thats what everyone supposedly expects from a PMP nowadays. He wasn't saying the touch had one, only that the Zune doesn't AND its still behind the touch (a claim we'll have to wait and see).

Its a shame they put in features that are clearly not ready for primetime though.

[Warbrain]

I greatly prefer the iTouch as well.

Because this is a surprise here. :rolleyes:

Give the damn device a chance.

[Shookster]

Microsoft has the Xbox, DirectX and Microsoft Game Studios - if they tap those resources, gaming is where the Zune could be successful.

But they will probably screw it up again.

[Chris Blount]

Mark my words. The HD radio feature is a joke. I have HD radio in my car and it constantly cuts in and out when the car is in motion... and that is with an antenna on the outside of my car. Can you imagine the lousy performance from the tiny antenna inside of the Zune?

Having HD radio on the Zune is a gimmick and users will be disappointed when they find out how lousy it works.

[sdp]

Easy fanboys. This is pretty cool, although it needs to catch up regarding e.g., app store.

But I like the competition. I like it a lot.

I hear you, but the app store/marketplace/software IS the device. It's not the hardware.

I think the iTunes store is the major reason why ipod/phone etc is as successful as it is. Yeah the device is really cool and I'm sure Zune can easily compete on that level, but without the apps et al... it's nuthin.
2 cents

sdp

[Goona]

Maybe now they can double their marketshare to 2 percent without losing money!

[Surely]

Or for people who are too stupid to live in the US? :rolleyes:

Apple products are sold outside of the US. :confused:

[safetyobc]

I pre-ordered a Zune HD, should be on my doorsteps in a couple hours.

I have an iPhone 3GS so I am not giving up on anything on the Apple side. I also have my iPod 5.5G Video that I use daily. I have owned an iPod Touch (first gen, before the iPhone) and a couple Nano's and a shuffle.

I like the looks and feature set of the Zune, especially the Zune Pass, which I have signed up for. I like the idea of the subscription plan with "keep 10" per month. Some people don't like that idea, and that is okay. To each his own.

The Zune HD looks promising. It is starting out with minimal apps, but Apple did the same thing with the first gen iPhone/iPod Touch. So there is potential for this to be a cool device. I don't think that the web browser on the Zune will ever compete with mobile Safari, but that isn't why I wanted a Zune anyway. It will never out do Apple's success but I think that competition is good. Look at the iPod Touch's announcement on 9/9/09. Nothing new because nothing is competing with it at the moment.

I bought the Zune HD primarily for the Zune Pass. I have my Macbook Pro and iPhone combo. The iPhone will go with me everywhere and the Zune will likely stay in the car. I got sick of my Sirius Subscription playing the same music over and over an over, so I got the Zune with Zune Pass.

HD Radio isn't a compelling feature for me because there are no HD stations in my area. HD Video out is a neat feature but I'll probably never use it. It does suck that they don't offer Zune software for the Mac. As it stands now, I use my daughters laptop for my Zune. I could use my bootcamp but don't want to use up the Hard Drive space or more media.

That is how I am going to use it. Others are fan boys who just bought it because they like MS. Others are Apple fans and won't buy it just because it is a MS product. Me personally could care less who makes a gadget if it is cool and I want it, I get it (if I am financially able). I think that the Zune has potential but will never outsell the iPods. Again, I still have iPods but I wanted to try the Zune Pass and the Zune HD looked like a great way to go.

Just my .02

[whooleytoo]

And HD radio. Even the Nano only has FM. Though if you've got an iPhone the need for a radio receiver is null.

Not true.

Just to name one such usage off the top of my head: Reflink/local commentary radio broadcasts at sports events. Since the iPhone doesn't have a radio receiver, I have to either carry a separate FM radio, or buy one at the ground (5-10 euros per game, up to 20 events per year.. it adds up).

[Warbrain]

Mark my words. The HD radio feature is a joke. I have HD radio in my car and it constantly cuts in and out when the car is in motion... and that is with an antenna on the outside of my car. Can you imagine the lousy performance from the tiny antenna inside of the Zune?

Having HD radio on the Zune is a gimmick and users will be disappointed when they find out how lousy it works.

That's what you get when HD radio is a proprietary format and not used everywhere.

[LagunaSol]

As much as I hate Microsoft I don't have much negative to say about this device, but I will say this, in the very words of many PC fanboys in the past and present ignorant ones, "Why buy a Mac, there's no software for it?"

Agreed. The MS Brigade wails about the small ecosystem for Macs and deride it as useless eye candy (both the OS GUI and the hardware itself). "Where is the software? Where are the games? LOL!!!!"

But when Microsoft comes out with a device with a small ecosystem and a focus on eye candy and hardware design, they think it's the greatest thing the world has ever seen. Just read the comments on Engadget for every Zune post. You'd think they'd sell a billion of these things based on the joyous cyber-chatter.

The astroturfing machine is in high gear for the Zune HD. In fact, I bet we'll see a lot of new MacRumors members this week singing the Zune's praises.

Me, I see nothing new being brought to the table. Another Me Too product from the world's favorite Me Too company; Microsoft.

[ucfgrad93]

Looks nice, but I see several drawbacks:

Doesn't work with Macs
It is only in the U.S.
Very few apps.
Only one form factor.

[Padraig]

It's a really nice looking device with serious potential. If I hadn't sunk a fortune into apps I'd be seriously tempted.

[ss957916]

I appreciate that the Zune is a direct competitor - but why the hell is this on page one??

This is barely page two news on a site apparently dedicated to Apple rumours.

[Goona]

I heard the software isnt yet working on them? :eek:

[Goona]

Agreed. The MS Brigade wails about the small ecosystem for Macs and deride it as useless eye candy (both the OS GUI and the hardware itself). "Where is the software? Where are the games? LOL!!!!"

But when Microsoft comes out with a device with a small ecosystem and a focus on eye candy and hardware design, they think it's the greatest thing the world has ever seen. Just read the comments on Engadget for every Zune post. You'd think they'd sell a billion of these things based on the joyous cyber-chatter.

The astroturfing machine is in high gear for the Zune HD. In fact, I bet we'll see a lot of new MacRumors members this week singing the Zune's praises.

Me, I see nothing new being brought to the table. Another Me Too product from the world's favorite Me Too company; Microsoft.

Another Palm Pre in the making!

[PeterQVenkman]

Funny how this significant step forward only has one thing to offer the touch/iphone doesn't. The oled screen.

I think i'll stick with my iPhone and be happy.

And HD Radio with tagging. And HD video out. And a faster interface. And subscription based music library support.

But no mac support. :(

I would have bought one today if there was mac support. Windows users are lucky in this case.


Although dude, you have an iPhone- the best of all the devices! It does everything except make clear phone calls! ;)

But at least it has a camera!

[lunarworks]

I prefer my iPod Touch, but I actually like the industrial design of this thing.

In any case, let's hope Apple doesn't simply ignore it. The Zune HD could be good motivation for Apple to improve the iPod.

[*LTD*]

So people outside of Winsupersite actually noticed?

[libertyforall]

The tech specs are here:
http://www.zune.net/en-us/products/zunehd/zunehd32/techspecs.htm

[jaw04005]

I'm glad someone is trying to compete with the iPod touch. The OLED screen, "HD" radio and 720p output are all neat features. There's also apparently a big update coming in November for the 360 and Zune HD that will allow integration between the two.

It is a little ironic that the Apple TV can't do 720p playback at 30 FPS and the Zune HD can. Heh.

"H.264 video3; Baseline Profile + bframes, up to 10 Mbps peak video bit rate; 720 pixels x 480 pixels up to 30 frames per second (or 720 pixels x 576 pixels up to 25 frames per second);1280 pixels x 720 pixels up to 30 frames per second, up to level 3.1 and 14.0 Mbps peak video bitrate; Zune software will transcode HD WMV files above the stated capabilities at device sync
DVR-MS4; Zune software will transcode at time of sync"

The whole "We're not going to have an App Store competitor until Windows Mobile 7 comes out" is kind of weird. And the fact that the Zune HD's browser is based on Internet Explorer 6 (quite possibly the worst version ever of IE) is also a downer.

However, Zune HD looks to be a decent competitor if you want something other than iPod touch.

http://www.businessinsider.com/zune-hd-app-store-2009-9

[macfan881]

people buy these things still?:D

[spillproof]

I love Apple products as much as the next guy, but this actually looks like a worthy opponent. Can't wait to try it out.

Though, I also hear lots of people are having problems setting it up.

[Warbrain]

I heard the software isnt yet working on them? :eek:

The ones that had been shipped out as review units had to be updated. I'm not sure about the in-store units.

[Small White Car]

Because this is a surprise here. :rolleyes:

Give the damn device a chance.

Can't. No Mac support. Microsoft doesn't want my money.

It's not like I ONLY buy Apple products. I own devices from many companies. But it has to work with my computer to even consider it.

It's confusing, honestly. MS is only hurting themselves at this point. If you look at JUST the demographic that buys media players like this I suspect you'll find that a higher percentage of them use Macs than the population at large.

It's like they don't want to succeed or something.

[dr_lha]

Not true.

Just to name one such usage off the top of my head: Reflink/local commentary radio broadcasts at sports events. Since the iPhone doesn't have a radio receiver, I have to either carry a separate FM radio, or buy one at the ground (5-10 euros per game, up to 20 events per year.. it adds up).
Almost all radio stations have internet feeds in this day and age, and you can use an app like WunderRadio to access them on the iPhone.

[BJB Productions]

Good. Apple needs some more competition.

[Surely]

I pre-ordered a Zune HD, should be on my doorsteps in a couple hours.

I have an iPhone 3GS so I am not giving up on anything on the Apple side. I also have my iPod 5.5G Video that I use daily. I have owned an iPod Touch (first gen, before the iPhone) and a couple Nano's and a shuffle.

I like the looks and feature set of the Zune, especially the Zune Pass, which I have signed up for. I like the idea of the subscription plan with "keep 10" per month. Some people don't like that idea, and that is okay. To each his own.

The Zune HD looks promising. It is starting out with minimal apps, but Apple did the same thing with the first gen iPhone/iPod Touch. So there is potential for this to be a cool device. I don't think that the web browser on the Zune will ever compete with mobile Safari, but that isn't why I wanted a Zune anyway. It will never out do Apple's success but I think that competition is good. Look at the iPod Touch's announcement on 9/9/09. Nothing new because nothing is competing with it at the moment.

I bought the Zune HD primarily for the Zune Pass. I have my Macbook Pro and iPhone combo. The iPhone will go with me everywhere and the Zune will likely stay in the car. I got sick of my Sirius Subscription playing the same music over and over an over, so I got the Zune with Zune Pass.

HD Radio isn't a compelling feature for me because there are no HD stations in my area. HD Video out is a neat feature but I'll probably never use it. It does suck that they don't offer Zune software for the Mac. As it stands now, I use my daughters laptop for my Zune. I could use my bootcamp but don't want to use up the Hard Drive space or more media.

That is how I am going to use it. Others are fan boys who just bought it because they like MS. Others are Apple fans and won't buy it just because it is a MS product. Me personally could care less who makes a gadget if it is cool and I want it, I get it (if I am financially able). I think that the Zune has potential but will never outsell the iPods. Again, I still have iPods but I wanted to try the Zune Pass and the Zune HD looked like a great way to go.

Just my .02

I hope that you enjoy it, but......

Is Zune Pass the only music subscription service available? Couldn't you have signed up for another service that would have allowed you to listen to subscription music on your iPhone (eg. Rhapsody), paid the monthly fee for it, and then used the Zune HD money to buy 10 songs a months?

I don't think that we'll see the same growth in the Zune Apps Store that we've seen in Apple's App Store. There is just so many more Apple devices around- developers will continue to primarily develop for Apple devices for a long time to come.

It seems that there are more Zune HD features that you won't use versus features that you actually will use.

[Fuchal]

Looks quite nice.

Glad to see Apple finally getting some competition with the Pre and the Zune HD. iPhone/iPod Touch certainly needs a good kick in the crotch in the next year with some real improvements.

[LagunaSol]

I bought the Zune HD primarily for the Zune Pass. I have my Macbook Pro and iPhone combo. The iPhone will go with me everywhere and the Zune will likely stay in the car. I got sick of my Sirius Subscription playing the same music over and over an over, so I got the Zune with Zune Pass.

I have something even better on my iPhone. It's called Slacker Radio. I don't have to bother with downloading stuff - it plays what I want automatically. There's no annoying DJ chatter. Commercials are sparse. And it's free.

[coolfactor]

How is it another step behind Apple? The Zune's internals are way ahead of Apple at this stage.

Can you elaborate on Zune's internals and how they are way ahead?

[Spades]

And the fact that the Zune HD's browser is based on Internet Explorer 6 (quite possibly the worst version ever of IE) is also a downer.

Mobile IE and desktop IE are two different things developed by two different teams. The version number is just a coincidence.

Unfortunately, desktop or mobile, it's still IE. I suppose it could be another Mac IE "this is surprisingly not bad" situation, but I won't hold my breath for that.

I have something even better on my iPhone. It's called Slacker Radio. I don't have to bother with downloading stuff - it plays what I want automatically. There's no annoying DJ chatter. Commercials are sparse. And it's free.

I have both a Zune Pass and Slacker Radio. The two just can't be compared. Slacker Radio is nice when I just want to listen to any random music, but being able to download exactly the music I want from Zune Pass is even better.

[philgilder]

Apple products are sold outside of the US. :confused:
Yes they are, the poster was referring to the fact that Zune HDs are only sold in the US

[Warbrain]

Can't. No Mac support. Microsoft doesn't want my money.

It's not like I ONLY buy Apple products. I own devices from many companies. But it has to work with my computer to even consider it.

It's confusing, honestly. MS is only hurting themselves at this point. If you look at JUST the demographic that buys media players like this I suspect you'll find that a higher percentage of them use Macs than the population at large.

It's like they don't want to succeed or something.

Rumor is that a Mac version of the software is in the works.

I highly doubt that you'll find that a higher percentage of people buying PMPs are Mac users. The vast majority of iPod owners are using Windows.

They're doing exactly the same thing Apple did when they came out with the iPod. It'll come around soon, don't worry. Microsoft is in a harder spot now because they have to play catch up to Apple.

[Takuta-Nui]

Looks very nice IMO. Since I've had zero hands-on experience either way, I certainly can't be a judge, but its looks definitely rival the iPod Touch's.

[Warbrain]

Mobile IE and desktop IE are two different things developed by two different teams. The version number is just a coincidence.

Unfortunately, desktop or mobile, it's still IE. I suppose it could be another Mac IE "this is surprisingly not bad" situation, but I won't hold my breath for that.

If I recall they didn't use the mobile IE code for this - they worked with the desktop IE team.

[Consultant]

OLED screen are NOT better than LCD from the battery perspective and are bad with blacks if you are at open air.

Read this ---> From oled to tegra: five myths of the zune hd. (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/14/from_oled_to_tegra_five_myths_of_the_zune_hd.html)

Oled, tegra, ecc..all things that are only marketing 'cause without "booming words" ms can not compete neither with its 1,1%.

Uh...and no real innovation.

In just one word: microsoft.


Yup exactly. You beat me to it.

[DerfBWH]

I'm an Apple fanboy and I still want one of these. :(

[PeterQVenkman]

Can't. No Mac support. Microsoft doesn't want my money.

It's not like I ONLY buy Apple products. I own devices from many companies. But it has to work with my computer to even consider it.

It's confusing, honestly. MS is only hurting themselves at this point. If you look at JUST the demographic that buys media players like this I suspect you'll find that a higher percentage of them use Macs than the population at large.

It's like they don't want to succeed or something.

This is the most honest post here. Plenty of people want the Zune HD, but the support isn't there. It's almost like they're releasing it JUST out of spite. The hardware looks great. The software (apps, mac support) behind it, ahhh, not so much.

They aren't even releasing a dev kit for it yet. They aren't ready to compete with Apple yet- or they aren't going to try.

Say what you will about apple- they continued to grow the ipod market in terms of software and support.

[kresh]

Yay! Mobile botnets coming to a Zune near you ...

[philgilder]

Rumor is that a Mac version of the software is in the works.

I highly doubt that you'll find that a higher percentage of people buying PMPs are Mac users. The vast majority of iPod owners are using Windows.

They're doing exactly the same thing Apple did when they came out with the iPod. It'll come around soon, don't worry. Microsoft is in a harder spot now because they have to play catch up to Apple.
Yes, but the first Zune was released 3 years ago
The iPod took 9 months to come to windows
And that was when apple made the PMP mainstream, let alone now with many devices to compete with the Zune

[Eidorian]

It's going to need a revision or two but there's some potential here. There needs to be an OS X client to be honest.

I have something even better on my iPhone. It's called Slacker Radio. I don't have to bother with downloading stuff - it plays what I want automatically. There's no annoying DJ chatter. Commercials are sparse. And it's free.That's nice but it still isn't FM.

[0racle]

Doesn't look too good for me
What's wrong with it?

Other then the pretty useless dead space on the bottom, it doesn't seem that bad.

[nick9191]

Looks nice.

Could have easily doubled sales however if they sold it at $199 and added a Nano camera that costs pennies.

[Small White Car]

I highly doubt that you'll find that a higher percentage of people buying PMPs are Mac users. The vast majority of iPod owners are using Windows.


I said higher percentage, not higher numbers.

In other words (made up example):

General Population Mac/Windows is 5%/95%
College Students Mac/Windows is 35%/65%
PMP Buyers Mac/Windows is 15%/85%

Those numbers are imaginary, but I suspect it's something like that. Thus, the fact that more iPod users are using Windows is right, but has absolutley nothing to do with my point.

[Consultant]

If I recall they didn't use the mobile IE code for this - they worked with the desktop IE team.

Yes they didn't use the IE 4 engine from 1997 like other Windows Mobile devices. instead the Zune HD uses a mobile version of IE 6 about a decade old, and nearly a decade behind the modern WebKit browsers used in the iPhone, Palm Pre, Android, and modern BlackBerry phones.

Zune Myths
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/14/from_oled_to_tegra_five_myths_of_the_zune_hd.html

[NT1440]

Yes they didn't use the IE 4 engine from 1997 like other Windows Mobile devices. instead the Zune HD uses a mobile version of IE 6 about a decade old, and nearly a decade behind the modern WebKit browsers used in the iPhone, Palm Pre, Android, and modern BlackBerry phones.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/14/from_oled_to_tegra_five_myths_of_the_zune_hd.html

Ha I was just about to say someone reads appleinsider :p

It is odd that MS refuses to go where the future of mobile browsers is currently, webkit.

[Slurpy2k8]

Doesn't look too good for me. I'd rather have an iPod Touch any day.

I wonder how well it'll sell.

Thats such a mindblowing statement, given your username and all. The fact that you haven't touched one of these devices, let alone used one, so what you'd 'rather' have is based on absolutely nothing but your inherent bias.

Seriously, I hope this device does well. It will just motivate Apple to up their game a bit, be more ambitious, and aggresive in their product releases. Competition is a good thing.

[iRACK]

So the ZUNE HD launch party made it to MacRumors. Well well.

So i said this before somewhere else. I would not spend a dime on that Device, even though it does look decent.
First, there is no way i would early adopt this beta Zune HD.
Secondly, there is an Internet explorer on that Gadget.
Third, i want to see some Outside footage of that OLED screen.

And in the end i love my PMP to have Phone capabilities.

And than i also thought about this thingamajig as a gaming machine, i personally think the screen is just a bit to small. Playing on an iPhone 3gs or an iPod Touch can be difficult sometimes, because of your thumbs blocking the View on the Stuff going on! Just imagine the screen being even smaller, i just don't see this working without ad On Gamepad.
Of course u can only put games on it with accelerometer controls but that would certainly limit the Title availability.

I added a little "RED" to a pic from GIZMODO (us.gizmodo.com), it shows the ZHD at a promo event and it has Fingers on them, easily comparing sizes here ull see what i ment above.

[Hairball]

The device looks like a good step for MS. I think it will attract a bigger aduience for them, but it will make little if any dent in marketshare. The big problem is the Marketplace. How can it or any other similar type of store compete with iTunes?

Something that amazes me about all of the Apple/iPod Touch/iPhone haters is that bash Apple products, but always use the Apple products as the benchmark for comparison. If Apple & its products are so horrible, then why are they the benchmark?

[Goona]

And HD Radio with tagging. And HD video out. And a faster interface. And subscription based music library support.

But no mac support. :(

I would have bought one today if there was mac support. Windows users are lucky in this case.


Although dude, you have an iPhone- the best of all the devices! It does everything except make clear phone calls! ;)

But at least it has a camera!
I wonder why my iPhone makes clear phone calls?

[MacMonster1985]

Why is this even on macrumors. It's got nothing to do with Apple. Stupid move to create more flamewars. Troll bait.

[Merkuryy]

It's all about Rock & Roll , but we like it!!!!!!!!!!!;)

[daneoni]

Boneheaded move not shipping this worldwide. Recoculous.

[Warbrain]

Yes, but the first Zune was released 3 years ago
The iPod took 9 months to come to windows
And that was when apple made the PMP mainstream, let alone now with many devices to compete with the Zune

I tend to consider when the first version of iTunes for Windows came out, not when they were using third-party software with plug-ins to get compatibility. That was 2 years since the release. Microsoft is just slow and being reactionary. That's the hold-up.

Yes they didn't use the IE 4 engine from 1997 like other Windows Mobile devices. instead the Zune HD uses a mobile version of IE 6 about a decade old, and nearly a decade behind the modern WebKit browsers used in the iPhone, Palm Pre, Android, and modern BlackBerry phones.

Zune Myths
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/14/from_oled_to_tegra_five_myths_of_the_zune_hd.html

How about you all quit citing the same page from an Apple rumor site and give me something substantive and new?

[NT1440]

Why is this even on macrumors. It's got nothing to do with Apple. Stupid move to create more flamewars. Troll bait.

Its about the industry, entirely related. If your looking for an echo chamber go somewhere else.

[chalpin]

Lets see it in daylight, outside use.

Good point, that might help it in sales - I can't believe it being much worse than the iPhone or iPod Touch!

[neiltc13]

Looks great, I hope they can roll it out to more countries soon.

The best part about it for me is that it has a proper widescreen display. Apple claims that some of its products are "widescreen" but in actual fact they are not, and it means that you have to watch both 16:9 and 4:3 content with black bars or some cropping. Not so with Microsoft's device, which can render 16:9 video without losing an inch of the image.

A few months ago everyone was saying that Apple was going to match Microsoft's effort. The September event is now over and Apple is lagging way, way behind.

[darwen]

I like the interface. Call me a fanboy, but if this thing had an apple logo on it, I'd buy it. It definatly has an appeal. I wish more people would buy it. Maybe if apple had some competition in the marketplace they would actually update "the worlds greatest iPod" instead of just lowering the price. The iPod brand is just so dificult to penetrate though. Kids don't ask Santa for an MP3 player anymore, they ask for an iPod.

Yay for capitalism and market competition! Monopolies are boring.

[herbalizer]

Exposed fasteners on the back? What's that about? Looks terrible.

[buxtone17]

And HD radio. Even the Nano only has FM. Though if you've got an iPhone the need for a radio receiver is null.

You realize that HD radio isn't really any different from standard FM, right?

It's just a digital signal instead of an analog signal.

Woohoo...

[retroneo]

It's certainly not an ipod touch copycat device.

It has unique hardware design, a distinctive user interface and some interesting hardware features.

I'm wishing Apple put a camera in the iPod touch - and put the new processor in the base model.

[Warbrain]

Exposed fasteners on the back? What's that about? Looks terrible.

*Looks at bottom of iPhone 3G and 3GS*

*Looks at sides of plastic MacBook*

HOW DARE THEY?!

[Cask]

OLED screen are NOT better than LCD from the battery perspective and are bad with blacks if you are at open air.

Read this ---> From oled to tegra: five myths of the zune hd. (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/14/from_oled_to_tegra_five_myths_of_the_zune_hd.html)

Oled, tegra, ecc..all things that are only marketing 'cause without "booming words" ms can not compete neither with its 1,1%.

Uh...and no real innovation.

In just one word: microsoft.

Fanboyism at its maximum.

[iRACK]

Exposed fasteners on the back? What's that about? Looks terrible.

Them "Fasteners" are also referred to as Screws. :D

[neiltc13]

Exposed fasteners on the back? What's that about? Looks terrible.

That's weird, I didn't hear you complaining about the exposed screws on the bottom of iPhone 3G and 3GS?

[Warbrain]

It's certainly not an ipod touch copycat device.

It has unique hardware design, a distinctive user interface and some interesting hardware features.

I'm wishing Apple put a camera in the iPod touch - and put the new processor in the base model.

There was no way that they could get the new architecture in the base iPod touch without driving up cost.

[dwman]

Microsoft is just slow and being reactionary. That's the hold-up.

This has always been their M.O. See something develop, create their own version, use market clout to dominate industry. (MS Office, IE,) Although, way too many people own ipods for this thing to make any sort of a dent in market share. Nice looking device and always good to see competition though.

[Goona]

Looks great, I hope they can roll it out to more countries soon.

The best part about it for me is that it has a proper widescreen display. Apple claims that some of its products are "widescreen" but in actual fact they are not, and it means that you have to watch both 16:9 and 4:3 content with black bars or some cropping. Not so with Microsoft's device, which can render 16:9 video without losing an inch of the image.

A few months ago everyone was saying that Apple was going to match Microsoft's effort. The September event is now over and Apple is lagging way, way behind.

We'll see how begind Apple is when the market reacts.

[Small White Car]

Fanboyism at its maximum.

I am concerned with the part that claims white screens use 300% more power than on LCD.

Is that a "fanboy" concern? Should I just ignore that because I'm being silly?

A few months ago everyone was saying that Apple was going to match Microsoft's effort. The September event is now over and Apple is lagging way, way behind.

One device has some things the other doesn't. And then visa versa.

That's "way, way behind?"

Please. Either side saying that is being very hyperbolic.

[Drag'nGT]

That 1% market share of Zune users will love it. :rolleyes:

[Surely]

Yawn, another MS product for people who are too stupid to buy Apple products.

Or for people who are too stupid to live in the US? :rolleyes:

Apple products are sold outside of the US. :confused:

Yes they are, the poster was referring to the fact that Zune HDs are only sold in the US

That's not how the sequence of comments reads.

[Oh-es-Ten]

A nice looking device, however the addition of IE using an old code base (desktop or not) which is non-HTML5 and is a bastard child one of the worst apps ever made (IE6) is a complete FAIL.

I had really hoped this might be the start of something if they had a WebKit branch as a base - a time for a new Microsoft to cut out the cruft of yesteryear... but I guess not.

[donlphi]

Yep. When Apple released the iPod Touch with a camera, the Zune HD instantly fell behind.

Oh, I forgot...

Well... they sort of have an iPod touch with a camera... it's called an iPhone.

To think Microsoft isn't moving this platform towards a phone would be pretty naive. This is just a test run to see if the interface is good enough. Plus they'll need time to create their office suite for it, as well as all the other standard features found in a windows OS phone.

Hopefully Apple doesn't just shrug their shoulders at this. I know Apple has a head start, but it won't take much to port most of the good apps over to this ZuneHD.

I would expect to see some major iPhone/iPod changes now that Microsoft has "shown their hand".

[jaw04005]

This is quite possibly the coolest feature of the Zune HD, and a feature I've wanted for years on the iPod.

An actual TV interface via 720p video out.

Nice. Props to Microsoft on this one. Apple should take note. Maybe they'll make their $50 iPhone/iPod touch component cables worth it someday.

http://gizmodo.com/5337532/zune-hd-tv-interface-makes-it-a-media-center-for-your-pocket

[Consultant]

Ha I was just about to say someone reads appleinsider :p

It is odd that MS refuses to go where the future of mobile browsers is currently, webkit.

Yeah read AI and other sites.

The author of that article has his own site, which also explains other MS fails:
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/

Boneheaded move not shipping this worldwide. Recoculous.

You know why? Because the faux "HD" marketing term and U.S. only (non HD) technology will get shut down outside of U.S.

Read the myths article to see the full explanation.

[Eidorian]

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/Anything but that. :eek:

[Warbrain]

Well... they sort of have an iPod touch with a camera... it's called an iPhone.

And it also comes with a huge subscription cost.

[crackbookpro]

I'm glad someone is trying to compete with the iPod touch. The OLED screen, "HD" radio and 720p output are all neat features. There's also apparently a big update coming in November for the 360 and Zune HD that will allow integration between the two.

It is a little ironic that the Apple TV can't do 720p playback at 30 FPS and the Zune HD can. Heh.

"H.264 video3; Baseline Profile + bframes, up to 10 Mbps peak video bit rate; 720 pixels x 480 pixels up to 30 frames per second (or 720 pixels x 576 pixels up to 25 frames per second);1280 pixels x 720 pixels up to 30 frames per second, up to level 3.1 and 14.0 Mbps peak video bitrate; Zune software will transcode HD WMV files above the stated capabilities at device sync
DVR-MS4; Zune software will transcode at time of sync"

The whole "We're not going to have an App Store competitor until Windows Mobile 7 comes out" is kind of weird. And the fact that the Zune HD's browser is based on Internet Explorer 6 (quite possibly the worst version ever of IE) is also a downer.

However, Zune HD looks to be a decent competitor if you want something other than iPod touch.

http://www.businessinsider.com/zune-hd-app-store-2009-9

could not have said it better ;)

[herbalizer]

That's weird, I didn't hear you complaining about the exposed screws on the bottom of iPhone 3G and 3GS?

Those are tiny screws that are not supposed to stand out as a design feature. Zune's screws are supposed to stand out. Hacker industrial design. Maybe they should put a fake carbon fiber back on it too. What a joke.

[philgilder]

That's not how the sequence of comments reads.
Combing what herbalizer and Cinematographer said:
'Yawn, another MS product for people who are too stupid to live in the US'

Apple products are sold outside of the US.:confused:
Yes they are, the poster was referring to the fact that Zune HDs are only sold in the US

From
Originally Posted by herbalizer
Yawn, another MS product for people who are too stupid to buy Apple products.
Originally Posted by Cinematographer
Or for people who are too stupid to live in the US?

[jsbow1021]

From what I've read, the OLED is not yet stable and is almost not visible in daylight, if it were Apple would be using it; the "HD" is a misnomer and HD radio, as defined in Microsoft's documentation is entirely proprietary to MS.

As an example of the reading see: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/14/from_oled_to_tegra_five_myths_of_the_zune_hd.html

[krye]

"Microsoft has also confirmed that the company will be adding games and other applications to the Zune Marketplace for use on the Zune HD."


Yeah, if they can find someone to write them.

[Warbrain]

"Microsoft has also confirmed that the company will be adding games and other applications to the Zune Marketplace for use on the Zune HD."

Yeah, if they can find someone to write them.

Supposedly they're going to be free. I think they'll just use people internally.

[chalpin]

This is the most honest post here. Plenty of people want the Zune HD, but the support isn't there. It's almost like they're releasing it JUST out of spite. The hardware looks great. The software (apps, mac support) behind it, ahhh, not so much.

They aren't even releasing a dev kit for it yet. They aren't ready to compete with Apple yet- or they aren't going to try.

Say what you will about apple- they continued to grow the ipod market in terms of software and support.

I wish I was rich and could afford a mac - I'd like to see how iTunes performs on a mac. iTunes for Windows is the most bloated piece of software I've ever used on Windows. It takes longer to start than MS Word, Excel, etc, and it can often take over 10 seconds or so for it to recognize that I clicked on something. Infuriating.

However Apple really had no choice but to create iTunes for Windows. It would loose such a huge market (such as myself). Let's be generous to Apple and say they have 8% of the OS market and Windows has 80%. That means iTunes for Windows increases Apple's market for iPhones and iPods 900%. On the other hand, MS only increases their potential market from 80% to 88% which is an increase of 10%.

Apple has no choice!

And don't get me started about Apple's support - after three calls regarding issues on my iPhone and each one resulting in a complete restore to original factory settings, I've given up. I've since found solutions on the web that do not involve jail breaking or restoring. Why don't these "geniouses" know about these solutions?!?

[layte]

Yeah read AI and other sites.

The author of that article has his own site, which also explains other MS fails:
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/



You know why? Because the faux "HD" marketing term and U.S. only (non HD) technology will get shut down outside of U.S.

Read the myths article to see the full explanation.

Links to roughlydrafted? That is about as fair and non partisan as linking to winsupersite in opposition to Apple.

Dilger writes a good tale, but I'm pretty sure Bill Gates ran over his puppy at some point.

[buxtone17]

Fanboyism at its maximum.

Fanboy: OMG< LIKE Dom't get teh ZUNE beecuz itz NOT mad bi APPLE:apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple:

AppleInsider: Here's some more info about the new features on the Zune. Just giving you a heads up before you spend $200.

[philgilder]

"Microsoft has also confirmed that the company will be adding games and other applications to the Zune Marketplace for use on the Zune HD."

Yeah, if they can find someone to write them.
maybe they'll just edit this (http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/windowsphone/archive/2009/07/31/ready-to-port-your-iphone-app-to-windows-mobile.aspx) for the zune

[Macmoney]

16gb entry for almost the same price as the Itouch 8gb.

double the capacity for Zune nice!...I can say
objectively it looks good.

[jmoore5196]

Another yawner. I applaud the folks at Redmond for having the courage of thieves, but I can't imagine folks lining up to play with this at the forthcoming MS stores.

Maybe they'll line up to play with Word instead.

[MacMan86]

Looks great, I hope they can roll it out to more countries soon.

The best part about it for me is that it has a proper widescreen display. Apple claims that some of its products are "widescreen" but in actual fact they are not, and it means that you have to watch both 16:9 and 4:3 content with black bars or some cropping. Not so with Microsoft's device, which can render 16:9 video without losing an inch of the image.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but if the iPod Touch has a 480-by-320 screen, and the Zune has a 16:9 screen of 480-by-272, surely watching a video on an iPod Touch with letterboxing down to 272 pixels is exactly the same as watching a video on the Zune?

Except that when you finished watching your film you have an extra 48 pixels in screen width to browse the internet/play apps. Surely that's better?

[Xavier]

I'd love to see how this does with video playback compared to the iPod Touch.

This design is much more attractive than the pervious model.

If you could sync the Zune with iTunes, I would have bought one already. The practicality and vast amount of music and apps on iTunes just out weighs my want for a Zune.

[MadCow42]

Wow, that's probably the best looking Zune yet.

Yeah, but does it come in brown? :)

Seriously - immitation is the most sincere form of flattery. The HD radio is a cool addition, but nothing else would make me even want to consider such a beast. I like Apple products because they just "work"... no futzing with drivers, mucking with tempermental software, worrying about compatibility, etc. With Microsoft's history, I'd have no such confidence with one of their accessories. That simplicity and trust is Apple's value... and they do a great job of living up to it time after time.

MadCow.

[Warbrain]

Fanboy: OMG< LIKE Dom't get teh ZUNE beecuz itz NOT mad bi APPLE:apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple:

AppleInsider: Here's some more info about the new features on the Zune. Just giving you a heads up before you spend $200.

AppleInsider: Not that we don't have an agenda or anything. Just ignore our name.

[Masquerade]

if http://www.roughlydrafted.com/ isn't missinformation, then is made by a 5-year old kid.

[inkswamp]

Contrary to what some of you are saying, I think it's a great looking piece of hardware but I'm surprised the degree to which MS phoned in the features.

Smart DJ is like Pandora except... you pay for it? (Still trying to figure out how they're going to market that, especially when the Pandora app is free on iPod Touch.)

XBox integration. Great... if I owned an XBox.

An app store featuring a few utility apps that already come built-in on the iPod Touch. Microsoft promises more apps in the future. (Gee, you think they could have had a few more things ready to go? What, were they caught off-guard by the Zune HD launch or something?)

No Mac support. If this were the late-90s, they could easily ignore <2% of the market, but that's not the case now. They're literally giving the finger to a significant number of potential buyers... buyers which, according to surveys, purchase more content.

Wired puts a fairly positive spin on this but I see yet another halfhearted attempt.

[neiltc13]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but if the iPod Touch has a 480-by-320 screen, and the Zune has a 16:9 screen of 480-by-272, surely watching a video on an iPod Touch with letterboxing down to 272 pixels is exactly the same as watching a video on the Zune?

Except that when you finished watching your film you have an extra 48 pixels in screen width to browse the internet/play apps. Surely that's better?

It depends on the size of the screens.

[herbalizer]

Someone tell me the "Marketplace" link on the home screen fits inside the screen? I thought that was just a problem with the non shipping version?

Do they take any pride in their work? That is unacceptable. No one noticed that and fixed it? What a bunch of hacks....

[HLdan]

Rumor is that a Mac version of the software is in the works.

They're doing exactly the same thing Apple did when they came out with the iPod. It'll come around soon, don't worry. Microsoft is in a harder spot now because they have to play catch up to Apple.

I certainly don't mean to insult you in any way but what planet are you on??? Yeah, and rumor has it that Google Chrome is in the works for the Mac, well it's been how long now? Still now official release, we're talking about a simple browser here. Still, at least Google doesn't have anything really against Macs so that will happen soon enough....BUT...if you think for one minute that Microsoft is going to make the Zune marketplace or even allow the ZuneHD to run on Macs then you are on a different planet. ;). It ain't gonna happen buddy. Yes, MS is in a worse position and it would be to their advantage to take care of the Mac customers but they want to keep people on Windows and it's a very shameless attempt the way they do things to stick it to Apple's customers.

[macfan881]

This is quite possibly the coolest feature of the Zune HD, and a feature I've wanted for years on the iPod.

An actual TV interface via 720p video out.

Nice. Props to Microsoft on this one. Apple should take note. Maybe they'll make their $50 iPhone/iPod touch component cables worth it someday.

http://gizmodo.com/5337532/zune-hd-tv-interface-makes-it-a-media-center-for-your-pocket

yes but you need a specail dock for that and knowing MS they will charge 100 like they do for the wifi adapter for the 360

[NT1440]

Someone tell me the "Marketplace" link on the home screen fits inside the screen? I thought that was just a problem with the non shipping version?

Do they take any pride in their work? That is unacceptable. No one noticed that and fixed it? What a bunch of hacks....

Its not a bug, its a style choice.

[Bubba Satori]

I imagine the the Zune's success will be proportional to the number of nervous fanboi putdowns on this forum. :D

[iRACK]

Someone tell me the "Marketplace" link on the home screen fits inside the screen? I thought that was just a problem with the non shipping version?

Do they take any pride in their work? That is unacceptable. No one noticed that and fixed it? What a bunch of hacks....

It is not a Problem, it is a Feature, and yes it is in the shipping version. At least as far as i can see around the Internet.

I know what ur going to say. Keep it. They do suck at design so.

[herbalizer]

Its not a bug, its a style choice.

Who would make that style choice? Apple wouldn't do that to save their lives.

[inkswamp]

I wonder why my iPhone makes clear phone calls?

Mine makes clear calls too. We must be special. :rolleyes:

[iRACK]

yes but you need a specail dock for that and knowing MS they will charge 100 like they do for the wifi adapter for the 360

Actually it is 49,99.

[br0adband]

As usual, the level of outright stupidity and rampant fanboyism towards Apple products just because they're Apple products is insane, especially towards this device even at a forum with an Apple-centric focus for most of the content it contains.

Fanboys complain that Microsoft has market domination in the computer OS market, and they do, that's a fact that not anyone can deny. And because of it, all you hear is "OMFG, Microsoft has a monopoly and it's killing competition, it sucks for consumers, yadda yadda yadda till the end of time, they must be stopped!"

But on the flipside, Apple has market domination in the PMP market, because of the iPods (not the iPhone, sorry, that's a phone that can do some media stuff), and they do, that's also a fact that not anyone can deny.

Now, why is it ok to bash Microsoft for market domination with OSes, yet if one attempts to flip it around and bash Apple for market domination with iPods, you're basically looked upon as ignorant and foolish?

People, Apple is simply not all that.

The only decent and intelligent comments put forth so far are those that specifically point out that "this is good for competition." Is the Zune HD going to hurt Apple? Of course not, it's a drop in the bucket, and people that wish to buy them (myself included), do so because I choose to "Be different" instead of just being another person that might "Think different".

The simple definition of fanaticism is:

Excessive intolerance of opposing views

Whenever someone in this thread or any thread anywhere automagically disses Microsoft because they make a product in a similar vein that can do just as well if not better than anything Apple currently produces, and then they continue to do so without ever stepping back to take a look at what they've said or done even in spite of people pointing out their rampant "fanboyism" gives pause to most that witness the events, and the definition of fanaticism drops right into place.

I mean really.

It's a portable media player.
It plays music.
It plays videos.
It has wireless connectivity.
It has great battery life (longer than any Apple product currently on the active market, I might add, by the quoted technical specs).
It has a great and very competitive price. It's got a gorgeous design that anyone with a brain has to say "that looks nice" (unless you're suffering from that rampant fanboyism again).
It offers a marketplace to add content.
It offers a subscription service that's effectively unlimited in the sense of new content for one monthly price, with the benefit of keeping 10 songs permanently, slowly building a collection if you wish.
It has games and will have more coming.
It does all this very well.
It offers superior capabilities in some respects (720p out is the biggest).
It will have plenty of accessories as time goes by and yes, the prices for the actual accessories from Microsoft direct (the AV/HD Dock, etc) are comparable for what you get to their iPod counterparts, given that the iPhone/iPod touch don't have 720p output capability.

And many other wonderful features.

So what exactly is the beef with people, now that Apple actually has competition that can live up to its own products, almost spec for spec and sometimes better?

Why the need to bash?

Sorry, but the age old idea of "the Cult of Apple/Mac/iPod" is just smacking so prevalent right now it's not even funny.

Are you folks that afraid of a little competition? Really? ;)

[Kar98]

Zune HD available in 16GB ($219.99) and 32GB ($289.99). Or wait a couple of months until it's $19.99 at Big Lots and Fred's

[herbalizer]

It is not a Problem, it is a Feature, and yes it is in the shipping version. At least as far as i can see around the Internet.

I know what ur going to say. Keep it. They do suck at design so.

So the zune features text that doesn't fit on the screen. LOL Okay....

[philgilder]

I certainly don't mean to insult you in any way but what planet are you on??? Yeah, and rumor has it that Google Chrome is in the works for the Mac, well it's been how long now? Still now official release, we're talking about a simple browser here. Still, at least Google doesn't have anything really against Macs so that will happen soon enough....BUT...if you think for one minute that Microsoft is going to make the Zune marketplace or even allow the ZuneHD to run on Macs then you are on a different planet. ;). It ain't gonna happen buddy. Yes, MS is in a worse position and it would be to their advantage to take care of the Mac customers but they want to keep people on Windows and it's a very shameless attempt the way they do things to stick it to Apple's customers.
Check out Chromium for Mac (http://build.chromium.org/buildbot/snapshots/chromium-rel-mac/), its the beta of Chrome for Macs

Yeah, you're right. MS has no stuff on macs
Oh, wait. They have office (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/Office2008/default.mspx), hardware (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/), live messenger (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/messenger/default.mspx), remote desktop (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/remote-desktop/default.mspx), and WMV/A (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/wmcomponents.mspx)

[Macjames]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7C144 Safari/528.16)

OLED screen are NOT better than LCD from the battery perspective and are bad with blacks if you are at open air.

Read this ---> From oled to tegra: five myths of the zune hd. (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/14/from_oled_to_tegra_five_myths_of_the_zune_hd.html)

Oled, tegra, ecc..all things that are only marketing 'cause without "booming words" ms can not compete neither with its 1,1%.

Uh...and no real innovation.

In just one word: microsoft.

Re the 5 myths appleinsider article. Very interesting read, thanks for posting!

[Bubba Satori]

Zune HD available in 16GB ($219.99) and 32GB ($289.99). Or wait a couple of months until it's $19.99 at Big Lots and Fred's

You sound really worried.

[NT1440]

Who would make that style choice? Apple wouldn't do that to save their lives.

OF course they wouldn't, MS and Apple are completely different in regards to style choice.

[michial]

Come on boys let them enjoy their new toy. Let them think it's better than ours. We know better but let's not spoil their big day today. Time alone will continue to tell the truth. Heck they may pick up 2.1% of the marketshare this time. Have fun with your Zune media player. Now back to my iphone 3gs

[Dadadada]

Looks like a nice device, but I doubt I'd ever buy one. Still, competition is good.
Competition ? Where ? If at least the new Zune was better, it would give Apple an incentive to make better iPods...

[Warbrain]

Someone tell me the "Marketplace" link on the home screen fits inside the screen? I thought that was just a problem with the non shipping version?

Do they take any pride in their work? That is unacceptable. No one noticed that and fixed it? What a bunch of hacks....

They did that on purpose. That one doesn't make sense to me.

I certainly don't mean to insult you in any way but what planet are you on??? Yeah, and rumor has it that Google Chrome is in the works for the Mac, well it's been how long now? Still now official release, we're talking about a simple browser here. Still, at least Google doesn't have anything really against Macs so that will happen soon enough....BUT...if you think for one minute that Microsoft is going to make the Zune marketplace or even allow the ZuneHD to run on Macs then you are on a different planet. ;). It ain't gonna happen buddy. Yes, MS is in a worse position and it would be to their advantage to take care of the Mac customers but they want to keep people on Windows and it's a very shameless attempt the way they do things to stick it to Apple's customers.

You sound like the people who said that they would never make iTunes for Windows. It'll happen at some point.

And when you are proven entirely wrong...well, I'll laugh.

[Cathode]

This is a big step for Microsoft. The Zune HD is a great device and it has everything going for it. I'm am however very disappointed that Microsoft still hasn't come out with a Mac version of the Zune software. If they did I would get this thing in a heartbeat!

Shame on all these fanboy comments. Competition is a GOOD thing guys. It will only lead to better products for both companies.

[br0adband]

Come on boys let them enjoy their new toy. Let them think it's better than ours. We know better but let's not spoil their big day today. Time alone will continue to tell the truth. Heck they may pick up 2.1% of the marketshare this time. Have fun with your Zune media player. Now back to my iphone 3gs

Spoken like a true fa--Cul--evangelist... right.

[iRACK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7C144 Safari/528.16)



Re the 5 myths appleinsider article. Very interesting read, thanks for posting!

I also read that, it seems a little biased! Lets all wait for a real uninfluenced Review. If this turns out to be a good machine -> so be it! Competition on, can only be a good thing.

If it turns out to suck, we´ll enjoy quietly.

In the End the Market decides about FAIL n WIN. Not us Technerds.

[LagunaSol]

You sound really worried.

You sound really worried that he may not, in fact, be worried at all. :p

[corinhorn]

Does it squirt?

[Warbrain]

To all those blindly posting the AI link and proclaiming it holy:

What are you going to say when/if an Apple device comes out using the Tegra processor and OLED screen?

"YESH YESH IT'Z THE BESTZ! WHOOO APPLE!"

Get over yourselves. Competition is good.

[dXTC]

Someone tell me the "Marketplace" link on the home screen fits inside the screen? I thought that was just a problem with the non shipping version?

Do they take any pride in their work? That is unacceptable. No one noticed that and fixed it? What a bunch of hacks....

I haven't seen the actual product, but it's definitely weird to see the "e" cut off like that in virtually every publicity photo. Perhaps a slightly different font? Maybe tighter kerning on the menu?

Its not a bug, its a style choice.

Oh. Never mind. Interesting.. um.. style choice you have there, Haus of Ballmer.

Anyway, the next few months may prove interesting, as Apple reacts (or not) to this new competitor. I'm not a fan of subscription services, so at a personal level I'll pass, but time will tell if the Zune HD is indeed Crackalackin'.

(sorry, I can't help using that word whenever Zune is mentioned.)

[Anghammarad]

I think it look quite nice. MS must make it different from an iPhone/iPod Touch aesthetically while maintaiming the same basic feature set hardwarewise and Ithink they've managed that quite well.

The big problem is that it's an Touch competitor released a few years after it's main rival and without any killer features to make it clearly more interesting than its counterpart. Apple has a similar lead in userbase in this field as MS has in operating systems and just like there but with the roles reversed, the gap will never be closed. At least not until MS releases something truly groundbraking which, given their track record, is unlikely to happen

[Warbrain]

Does it squirt?

I think it does. Squirts like none other, baby ;)

[NT1440]

You sound like the people who said that they would never make iTunes for Windows. It'll happen at some point.

And when you are proven entirely wrong...well, I'll laugh.

Companies do things when theres a market for them. The reason why the Zune is so limited at this point (US/windows only) is because the demand is not currently enough to make it worth it financially.

[jclardy]

How is it another step behind Apple? The Zune's internals are way ahead of Apple at this stage.

Not exactly, the Tegra chip they use in the Zune HD is better than the iPod Touch 3rd gen/iPhone 3GS when it comes to graphics capabilities, but in terms of processing it is slower. It also may have bottleneck with memory speeds, so really only time will tell which offers the best real world performance.

The main point of this post is to say that I wouldn't go with a Zune HD just for the supposed performance increase. The main differentiator between the Zune HD and iPod Touch are the software's focus. iPhone OS focuses more on the apps while Zune focuses more on the media.

Then there is also the look of the device, it looks pretty solid and has a flat back which is nice if you are using it on a flat surface, such as a table. I also like the brushed aluminum which I kind of wished the iPod Touch would have switched to (Because right now it scratches so easily). But the Zune HD will be good for iPod users as it will give Apple some actual competition in the touchscreen PMP field.

[NT1440]

I think it does. Squirts like none other, baby ;)

actually, no, squirting is dead.

[jaw04005]

yes but you need a specail dock for that and knowing MS they will charge 100 like they do for the wifi adapter for the 360

Yeah, it's $89.99. That sucks.

[jellomizer]

I am sure it is a good product. However I don't a strong completive advantage over the iPod Touch. $10 bucks less isn't a huge price difference not enough to make it an impulse buy over the iPod. Sure a nicer screen however most people don't really watch movies on the iPod Touch nor will they on the Zune. It isn't about the quality of the display that is hindering it. It is that it difficult to hold the device in your hand and look at a 3-4 inch screen for 2 hours.

As for apps you need Developers! Developers! Developers! Most of the iPod touch developers are actually iPhone Developers thus you get more serious development for the platform. As you can have a iPhone for Business Reasons while an iPod Touch is just for fun. Even the game developers realize that if you have a business reason for apps you will also want games for your down time.

For the Zune HD to succeed it will need to be priced around $100 area and/or Have superior features not just incremental ones over the iPod touch.

[daneoni]

Yeah read AI and other sites.

The author of that article has his own site, which also explains other MS fails:
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/



You know why? Because the faux "HD" marketing term and U.S. only (non HD) technology will get shut down outside of U.S.

Read the myths article to see the full explanation.

Ah...explains a lot. Have to say after reading the article i am not so keen anymore.

[Warbrain]

Companies do things when theres a market for them. The reason why the Zune is so limited at this point (US/windows only) is because the demand is not currently enough to make it worth it financially.

I think you missed the point. There's no reason for them to not tap into the additional 8% that is the Apple market.

actually, no, squirting is dead.

That's a shame. Why'd they have to cut it's balls off?

[Warbrain]

I am sure it is a good product. However I don't a strong completive advantage over the iPod Touch. $10 bucks less isn't a huge price difference not enough to make it an impulse buy over the iPod.

10 bucks less for double the capacity? That's great if you ask me.

[itsmenyc]

Let the fanboys flame start..

Let the trolls start... Damn... you beat me to it!

[benpatient]

To those of you saying that your ipod touch already as "the equivalent" of HD radio...can you please tell me how that is?

Unless you're in a hot spot, you can't stream audio from the internet. I am considering one of these if they make it mac friendly. That's the only thing keeping me from replacing my aging 3.5G ipod with one. How exactly do you listen to internet radio with an ipod touch when you're driving?

oh you meant iphone? well I don't want to double my monthly phone payments, thanks. believe it or not, lots of people use their phone for making phone calls, and try to avoid monthly service fees as much as possible...

I would put it in my car and use the HD radio of the zune HD instead of replacing the radio in my car with an HD one, which at present would cost at least as much as a zune HD (which is insane, by the way). It would be very nice to be able to listen to my local NPR talk channel on something other than AM...

Add to that the 720p output and it's pretty tempting...it must work with itunes, or at least quasi-work with itunes, though, for me to buy one...

[michael.lauden]

Competition ? Where ? If at least the new Zune was better, it would give Apple an incentive to make better iPods...

they already added one of the only features the zune gave.... a radio tuner.

[LagunaSol]

The best part about it for me is that it has a proper widescreen display. Apple claims that some of its products are "widescreen" but in actual fact they are not, and it means that you have to watch both 16:9 and 4:3 content with black bars or some cropping. Not so with Microsoft's device, which can render 16:9 video without losing an inch of the image.

Um, that's great if you're using the device exclusively for watching widescreen movies, but for doing anything else, perhaps true widescreen isn't ideal?

A few months ago everyone was saying that Apple was going to match Microsoft's effort. The September event is now over and Apple is lagging way, way behind.

Are you serious? OLED and HD radio leaves the iPod in the dust, eh? Puh-lease.

I remember everyone (everyone being the MS fanboys) exclaiming that squirting songs and FM radio made the original Zune an iPod killer. How did that work out?

If anyone is lagging way, way behind, it's Microsoft. By, oh I dunno, tens of thousands of apps? You know, a viable ecosystem? I wonder if Microsoft is still paying companies to create hardware accessories for the Zune.

[itsmenyc]

To all those blindly posting the AI link and proclaiming it holy:

What are you going to say when/if an Apple device comes out using the Tegra processor and OLED screen?

"YESH YESH IT'Z THE BESTZ! WHOOO APPLE!"

Get over yourselves. Competition is good.

At one point I would assume Apple will use the OLED screens, when they decide it makes sense. They however will never use the Tegra processor.

I haven't read one comment saying competition is bad, have you?

[NT1440]

I think you missed the point. There's no reason for them to not tap into the additional 8% that is the Apple market.



You don't understand how much money goes into something like that do you? I don't think they would recover the losses anytime soon to constitute the man hours required to make it work with a Mac.

[gloomcookie1]

Are you folks that afraid of a little competition? Really? ;)

I don't think it's being afraid of competition at all...I think it's a lot of pent up rage that has been brewing for years. I can understand it too becuase I was on the other side of the fence until Apple bought Logic - and I wouldn't compromise on music software so that's actually what precipated my move to Macs. I've read alot of articles since then and before the move becuase I like to research things to death before buying something and I can tell you - macs and Apple were bashed to no end and their demise predicted at the end of each of those reviews becuase they only had 2% or whatever market share. Now that Apple has clearly moved to the forefront in smart phones and mp3 players and music stores it's a chance for alot of people to feel pride that they've made a good choice in choosing Apple and macs - of course you'd think there'd be alot of bloggers and pundits saying hey, good job apple - it's oh look at all those fanboys etc etc...now, I'm not saying there's not some people that go overboard and some people who are just stupid to be stupid - but people can't say that windows/pc/mp3 users weren't bashing apple when they came out with Itunes and the iPod. I'm sure they weren't afraid of a little competition too....

[LCN]

I hope the OLED is doing fine with blue screens.

[a.gomez]

nice... I want one for the nVidia Tegra processor, and the 720p output - this could be even a smaller media center for my flat panel at home.

[oldwatery]

Nice try MS but without the backing of a comparable App Store this thing goes nowhere.
Despite some comments here the tech specs are not anything to get excited about.
The processor is a step behind the current Apple offerings and OLED is crap in normal daylight use.
As for FM radio...are you kidding!
Nice try and good to have someone barking at your heals.
But this is just another unoriginal MS wannabe.

[Jimmy James]

Agreed. The MS Brigade wails about the small ecosystem for Macs and deride it as useless eye candy (both the OS GUI and the hardware itself). "Where is the software? Where are the games? LOL!!!!"

But when Microsoft comes out with a device with a small ecosystem and a focus on eye candy and hardware design, they think it's the greatest thing the world has ever seen. Just read the comments on Engadget for every Zune post. You'd think they'd sell a billion of these things based on the joyous cyber-chatter.

The astroturfing machine is in high gear for the Zune HD. In fact, I bet we'll see a lot of new MacRumors members this week singing the Zune's praises.

Me, I see nothing new being brought to the table. Another Me Too product from the world's favorite Me Too company; Microsoft.

It works both ways. We Mac lovers deride [non-Apple] media devices for their thinly populated app stores...yet...we own Mac computers. Irony at its best.

[michael.lauden]

To all those blindly posting the AI link and proclaiming it holy:

What are you going to say when/if an Apple device comes out using the Tegra processor and OLED screen?

"YESH YESH IT'Z THE BESTZ! WHOOO APPLE!"

Get over yourselves. Competition is good.

the only competition is emerging technology used in the Zune, not the Zune itself

[cicadius]

This will be new for MS: A Blue Screen in HD.

Too little too late, no extra's in favor of Iphone.

I bet Steve will order all personnel to buy one of these instead of the Ipod.
He you guys at MS, at home you can use the Iphone.

MS stop copying and start inventing

[Brien]

Funny how this significant step forward only has one thing to offer the touch/iphone doesn't. The oled screen.

I think i'll stick with my iPhone and be happy.

I can only hope that this will put pressure on Apple to really ramp it up with the next iPhone/iPod touch... I'm hoping for, at the very least, an OLED screen (which will hopefully mean better battery life, but probably only means a smaller device), a larger screen (maybe even 16:9 or 16:10) and an FM (or HD radio) tuner.

[br0adband]

This will be new for MS: A Blue Screen in HD.

Too little too late, no extra's in favor of Iphone.

I bet Steve will order all personnel to buy one of these instead of the Ipod.
He you guys at MS, at home you can use the Iphone.

MS stop copying and start inventing

And yet another fan---Cul---evangelist.

What was that you were saying about copying, since everything you said was said by another poster that just copied another and another and... OMFG... is this MacRumors.com or "BashMicrosoftWithCopyAndPasteForDummies.com" ?

[axual]

Go to microsoft.com and good luck finding it ... though Windows Server 2008 HPC whatever leaps off the page. Gee, sign me up for that.

I'm sure it will help MS leap from 1% marketshare all the way up to 1.5%.

Wow.

[michael.lauden]

This will be new for MS: A Blue Screen in HD.

Too little too late, no extra's in favor of Iphone.

I bet Steve will order all personnel to buy one of these instead of the Ipod.
He you guys at MS, at home you can use the Iphone.

MS stop copying and start inventing

i'm glad you titled this post too

[richardhunt]

I for one welcome any competition to the ipod Touch. Do you guys not realize that the reason you can now get a 32GB ipod Touch with improved specs for $299 is because this Zune HD came out? The beauty of market capital, you must compete to exist (unless you are the government). The more successful the Zune HD becomes, the better for us apple ipod Touch/Iphone users as apple will inevitably do whatever to keep up or surpass any features deemed necessary. I have an Iphone 3GS and 2nd gen Touch, and love both devices. But having competition in the marketplace is necessary for refinements and other things to come down the pike. Let's not forget that not too long ago apple dissed native application development for their touchscreen platforms, it wasn't until the marketplace and all those pioneers who wrote apps for the jailbroken phone/touches that apple decided to include native apps in their 2.0 OS.

[Back2Bedlam]



[djellison]

Sorry - what does this new item have to do with Mac?

[michael.lauden]

Sorry - what does this new item have to do with Mac?

what are you talking about?

this is apple's 'competition' and they came out with a new product that has exciting new technologies.


how does it not have anything to do with 'Mac', and by Mac i assume you mean Apple

[newyorksole]

if I didn't have an iPhone I would get a ZuneHD and a Blackberry Bold, buttttt too bad I do have the iPhone!

[Warbrain]

At one point I would assume Apple will use the OLED screens, when they decide it makes sense. They however will never use the Tegra processor.

I haven't read one comment saying competition is bad, have you?

Tegra is an ARM processor. Never say never. It's also made my Nvidia. Again...

You don't understand how much money goes into something like that do you? I don't think they would recover the losses anytime soon to constitute the man hours required to make it work with a Mac.

It's not as difficult as it used to be. And, considering it's Microsoft, they've got the money to do so.

[cababah]

I have been excited for this for quite some time and am eager to see how it eventually performs and if MS can provide enough content to make it a good competitor.

However, I prefer to consolidate my gadgets as much as possible and my iPhone 3GS does that for me.

[Cander]

Going to Best Buy to try one out after work. If I like it, I am walking out with one.

[Ram Mac]

Looks nice. Probably will never get one thought because I will own macs for the rest of my life and the zune software doesn't work with the Mac OS

[michael.lauden]

Going to Best Buy to try one out after work. If I like it, I am walking out with one.

must be nice to have a disposable income

[iRACK]

In the end it is not only the Device itself that is important to Users nowadays...
It is Prestige factor, "Ease of Use", ecosystem of a Device, Influence by friends n family etc.

Since the iPod is out there holding 70+% market share, it is very likely your Friend has one or your neighbor, father, brother ... u get the point.
This is free advertising!
iTunes is content rich and easy to use as Well, and DRM FREE! U can share your Music legally with Family members etc.
And there is a Billion of Devices out there that are compatible with your iPod. Docks, music players, Car Stereos, Fridges (yes FRIDGES: http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/01/gorenje-debuts-made-for-ipod-fridge/)
and so on!

So there are plenty arguments that are important for non Techblog readers.If you followed the outburst of Msft and Apple fanboyism on Engadget Gizmodo and co, you have to think, that this is going to take of like a rocket but how many people actually know what OLED is or TEGRA.

All those arguments do not count for average consumers!

Don´t get me wrong, iam still sure it will do much much better than the original ZUNE but i do not believe it to be a real threat to Apple inc.

[samven582]

OLED screen are NOT better than LCD from the battery perspective and are bad with blacks if you are at open air.

Read this ---> From oled to tegra: five myths of the zune hd. (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/14/from_oled_to_tegra_five_myths_of_the_zune_hd.html)

Oled, tegra, ecc..all things that are only marketing 'cause without "booming words" ms can not compete neither with its 1,1%.

Uh...and no real innovation.

In just one word: microsoft.

I smell damage control

[joecanhlp]

I'll have to get one for my G4 running Leopard. Looks cool.

[br0adband]

In the end it is not only the Device itself that is important to Users nowadays...
It is Prestige factor, "Ease of Use", ecosystem of a Device, Influence by friends n family etc.

Since the iPod is out there holding 70+% market share, it is very likely your Friend has one or your neighbor, father, brother ... u get the point.
This is free advertising!
iTunes is content rich and easy to use as Well, and DRM FREE! U can share your Music legally with Family members etc.
And there is a Billion of Devices out there that are compatible with your iPod. Docks, music players, Car Stereos, Fridges (yes FRIDGES: http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/01/gorenje-debuts-made-for-ipod-fridge/)
and so on!


You could have just said "market domination" and made it much simpler. Cult, even... go figure.

[HLdan]

Check out Chromium for Mac (http://build.chromium.org/buildbot/snapshots/chromium-rel-mac/), its the beta of Chrome for Macs

Yeah, you're right. MS has no stuff on macs
Oh, wait. They have office (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/Office2008/default.mspx), hardware (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/), live messenger (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/messenger/default.mspx), remote desktop (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/remote-desktop/default.mspx), and WMV/A (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/wmcomponents.mspx)

Right, and you're missing the point. Every one of those softwares you named has been dumbed down to literally force the Mac crowd to install Windows so they can use the Windows versions which are very well done I might add, I wonder why?

[michael.lauden]

and so the thread becomes less relevant, including this post.

[mags631]

I smell damage control

Agreed that the tone is a little defensive, I'd be interested in seeing counterpoints to the facts claimed in the article.

[whooleytoo]

You don't understand how much money goes into something like that do you? I don't think they would recover the losses anytime soon to constitute the man hours required to make it work with a Mac.

Actually, all you have to do is fake a USB ID... </dangerous Palm joke>

I don't think it would be that time-consuming or expensive. There are several 3rd party utilities for various aspects of iPod management; if small 3rd party companies (or individuals) can do so; it's not going to make a ripple in Microsoft's budget.

I think the problem is more the fact that the already small Mac market is already dominated by other Apple products, the iPod & iPhone. The "Mac users who will buy another music/media player" demographic is very, very small. There is very little incentive for Microsoft to bring the Zune to Mac (though I wouldn't be surprised if we see someone hack it's way over here); other than PR.

[Roessnakhan]

Jesus this thread is filled with so many fanboys. I'm glad to see a few remaining objective about the whole thing.

Chances are most the fanboys saying "Nice try Microsoft, but your device is crap," have never even touched a Zune let alone the Zune HD. I've owned a Zune (both hard drive and flash based models) and I think its a great device. Perhaps I'm just a minimalist, but I love its UI, and would gladly take it over the jelly buttons of the iPod touch/iPhone. I also like the way browsing the UI and how playback is handled. I would LOVE for the iPod/iPhone OS to allow me to browse to a song and select it to "Play Next" but not escape my current place in my playlist.

I haven't tried the Zune HD yet but my co-worker is getting one and I'll be able to fiddle with that. I think the previous generations of the Zune were great devices, and this one will definitely be a large step up and offer some significant competition to the iPod touch. The lack of App Store is definitely a drawback, but the iPod touch/iPhone didn't have App Stores to begin with, so I'll give the device time, but as it stands I am impressed with what Microsoft has done. The only thing holding me back from getting one is the lack of native OS X support for the Zune Marketplace. I have Windows 7 installed on Boot Camp, but that seems like a bit of a hassle to go through in order to sync my device.

[cababah]

Agreed that the tone is a little defensive, I'd be interesting in seeing counterpoints to the facts claimed in the article.

You could find negative things about any device and that is what the article capitalizes on. I think the person writing that article got a little desperate when trying to dismount the whole "Tegra" hype.

Every company uses marketing terms to hype their products and that article has some vague accuracy but just seems to search in every dark corner for negative things to say about it.

[Master Chief]

We Apple customers have got to agree about one thing, and that is that the LCD screens in our iPhone and iPod Touch'es are still rubbish when compared to other brands.

[phineas]

Once again Micro$oft is a day late and forever playing catchup :eek:

[eastcoastsurfer]

This Zune finally brings some nice hardware to the line. The only place now where Apple is truly ahead is the app store, but the Zune store will get apps too. There are millions of .net developers and they can instantly be Zune app developers because of that.

Also, the Zune pass is actually pretty cool. I'm surprised Apple has yet to offer something similar.

[NeverhadaPC]

I am in the market for a new music device and hope this Zune HD will provide Apple with the impetus to actually upgrade their iPod Touch. Version3 was a cheap upgrade lacking many features I was hoping for --- camera, HD out, OLED, radio FM tuner.

Of course, I will never buy windows-based devices... so I will wait until Apple improves :apple:

[axual]

I for one welcome any competition to the ipod Touch. Do you guys not realize that the reason you can now get a 32GB ipod Touch with improved specs for $299 is because this Zune HD came out? The beauty of market capital?OS.

I'm not sure what planet you live on ... MS enjoys a whopping 1% share at the moment. They are so far behind that's it's difficult to imagine they can ever gain ground given Apple's design and execution iProwess.

Not sure we know what you mean by 'the beauty of market capital'?

[mags631]

You could find negative things about any device and that is what the article capitalizes on. I think the person writing that article got a little desperate when trying to dismount the whole "Tegra" hype.

Every company uses marketing terms to hype their products and that article has some vague accuracy but just seems to search in every dark corner for negative things to say about it.

This is tangential -- whether you like a Zune or not, the author of article does construct somewhat of an argument -- I would be curious to see some reasoned, even if biased, points against.

[cababah]

This Zune finally brings some nice hardware to the line. The only place now where Apple is truly ahead is the app store, but the Zune store will get apps too. There are millions of .net developers and they can instantly be Zune app developers because of that.

Also, the Zune pass is actually pretty cool. I'm surprised Apple has yet to offer something similar.


Aww I was anticipating a link to the Ballmer video about developers.

[cababah]

This is tangential -- whether you like a Zune or not, the author of article does construct somewhat of an argument -- I would be curious to see some reasoned, even if biased, points against.

Bottom line: Time will tell.

[G4R2]

This is actually a decent looking device with some decent specs. I'll refrain from developing a final judgment until I actually get my hands on one to see how snappy the interface is and how it feels. But I do find the OLED screen appealing as well as the Tegra chipset. It remains to be seen how successful the store will be and how well apps work on it.

It does demonstrate that previous iterations of the Zune have been, essentially, a placeholder until Microsoft could figure out how to create a device that is essentially an iPod Touch knockoff. Additionally, Microsoft has to demonstrate that it can remain committed to this device and platform. Windows essentially stagnated between XP and Longhorn/Vista and Windows Mobile remains a joke despite its considerable head start over Apple in the smartphone niche.

Despite the decent hardware and apparently decent UI, the Zune will not be a worthwhile alternative to the iPod until it has a vibrant marketplace for apps and media as well as a commitment from MS to improve the device in a way that is beneficial for its customers.

[joueboy]

Two free apps and the rest is $2.99 even the crappy ones. I didn't say that Microsoft did, they say they will sell apps no lower than $2.99.

[surferfromuk]

Since it's got I.E 6 on it does this run windows underneath and is it susceptible to virus's and spyware?

Are people going to be able to steal my photo's through the browser?

Is it as crashy as a winmobile platform? Are they going to let their faux windows multi tasking run loose on this like they do on winmob?

I'm not being snide - I genuinely want to know.

Anyone?

[lex750]

Great to see the photocopiers at Redmond are working well... Maybe they should Patent there copying technique. You'd think a company with that much money, and supposedly brains, would invent some things original!

Look at the "chicklet" style keyboard from a Sony x505 released 5/2004. 5 years ago. Look familiar? Apple is SO original, yeah right.

http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/rv/2004/09/vaio-x505-i1.gif

[PeterQVenkman]

I wonder why my iPhone makes clear phone calls?

Umm, because you're making that up?

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2007/07/iphone-the-cell.html

[jodelli]

It's a nice piece of hardware. Nothing wrong with that aspect.
Let's see how it handles content and what becomes available for it.

Seriously, I'm not getting fannish about this. I always like to see something new and interesting.

Steve Jobs made the point a couple of years ago that the Japanese had some nice mp3 players out before the iPod but it was the software that they didn't get right.

[iRACK]

Look at the "chicklet" style keyboard from a Sony x505 released 5/2004. 5 years ago. Look familiar? Apple is SO original, yeah right.

http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/rv/2004/09/vaio-x505-i1.gif

Please spare me OLD stuff like this. In the end all Companies observe and serve... But here we are very clear which Company actually opened a mass MArket for Touchscreen Devices using capacitive screens in the first place.
It was Apple clearly and nobody is going to argue on that Fact. This Market has not ben excitant before the iPhone/iPod Touch platform emerged.

And again nobody will argue that tying this kind of gadget to an App selling Platform on a big scale has also been an idea from Apple.

So tell us now: Who cares about Keyboard Design?

Well and at least Apple moved up the keys to give them users a Hand rest! :-)

[FlagellumDei]

It's always good to have a little competition...

[thespazz]

Why does everyone point out t he lack of an app store as a problem?

The iPhone nor the iPod touch had an app store for over a year.

Wasn't a problem for apple and won't be for microsoft.

[cawesjmu]

has anyone seen if the Zune HD included Flash support in their browser? I haven't read anything saying either way. I'm assuming not, cus that'd be a big selling point.

[cenetti]

Loving mine.... very cool PMP...:D

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8823/dsc0351z.jpg

[lex750]

Please spare me OLD stuff like this. In the end all Companies observe and serve... But here we are very clear which Company actually opened a mass MArket for Touchscreen Devices using capacitive screens in the first place.
It was Apple clearly and nobody is going to argue on that Fact. This Market has not ben excitant before the iPhone/iPod Touch platform emerged.

And again nobody will argue that tying this kind of gadget to an App selling Platform on a big scale has also been an idea from Apple.

So tell us now: Who cares about Keyboard Design?

If you bothered to read the quote I responded to which was not you by the way. It makes my point very valid to the person I was talking to.

[cawesjmu]

Loving mine.... very cool PMP...:D

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8823/dsc0351z.jpg

So you can answer my question for sure. Can you view Flash websites on that bad boy?

[iRACK]

Why does everyone point out t he lack of an app store as a problem?

The iPhone nor the iPod touch had an app store for over a year.

Wasn't a problem for apple and won't be for microsoft.

The Problem: There has not been an App Store ever before when Apple came out with the iPhone. Nobody knew what they have been missing.

Today there are 70k+ Apps and that is a major selling point.

[VoR]

So tell us now: Who cares about Keyboard Design?



Me :)

Input is pretty important I think, I much prefer a 'normal' keyboard over the chicklet type.
If we're talking laptops I think apple has a fair bit to catch up on compared to ibm with their keyboard/touchpoint - it's the main reason I don't have an apple machine.

[cenetti]

So you can answer my question for sure. Can you view Flash websites on that bad boy?

I tried youtube...and the answer is NO!... can't play the video.

[iRACK]

So you can answer my question for sure. Can you view Flash websites on that bad boy?

Honestly, did u crank up the Brightness on your Phone n Touch to make them look worse on this pic, or is this really such a difference ? :confused:

really show off your brightness controls, i would like to see! :)

Sorry quoted wrong post. Wanted to quote Post with the picture in it initially

[sheridan2679]

It´s got the style got to give you that. Best looking Zune I´ve seen. ....A little off topic but I ´m on the search for a new headset when I came across these www.budsgoblue.com Anyone know what they are??? thanks

[Dagless]

Loving mine.... very cool PMP...:D

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8823/dsc0351z.jpg

That is why Apple needs an OLED display in the iPod Touch. As it stands thats the only thing (for my needs anyways) that the Zune has over the iPod.

Why are Apple so dead against OLED?

[cawesjmu]

I tried youtube...and the answer is NO!... can't play the video.

Bummer. Thanks for the response though. I appreciate it.

[alent1234]

The Problem: There has not been an App Store ever before when Apple came out with the iPhone. Nobody knew what they have been missing.

Today there are 70k+ Apps and that is a major selling point.

there were apps for mobile devices back in the 1990's. i downloaded apps for my iPaq back in 2000 and 2001. blackberries had app stores long before the iPhone came out

[cawesjmu]

I tried youtube...and the answer is NO!... can't play the video.

Sorry, one more question for the Zune HD browser. Does it automatically take you to the "mobile" version of a website like the iPhone/iPod Touch does if it's available? I think amazon.com is one that has a mobile site that looks different than the full site you see on the computer.

[iRACK]

there were apps for mobile devices back in the 1990's. i downloaded apps for my iPaq back in 2000 and 2001.

My Bad. Of course there have been Apps to download for Mobile Computing Devices like the Palm pilot etc. but i was referring to mass consumer markets.

Sorry i should have been more specific

[Rodimus Prime]

The Problem: There has not been an App Store ever before when Apple came out with the iPhone. Nobody knew what they have been missing.

Today there are 70k+ Apps and that is a major selling point.

70k apps in the apps store. Of those 70k apps 69k of them are complete and utter garbage.

[Roessnakhan]

70k apps in the apps store. Of those 70k apps 69k of them are complete and utter garbage.

I think even with that you're being generous. :p

[iRACK]

70k apps in the apps store. Of those 70k apps 69k of them are complete and utter garbage.

Might be true, i do not know since i only tried about 140 so fare..
But it is still a selling point, also because people tend to love garbage these days ;-)

[mags631]

That is why Apple needs an OLED display in the iPod Touch. As it stands thats the only thing (for my needs anyways) that the Zune has over the iPod.

Why are Apple so dead against OLED?

From what I've been reading OLED only shows better in darkened rooms, but it's hard to differentiate FUD from objective reviews.

[lex750]

I'm not the only one disappointed with the new iPod touch offering.

Hitler finds out no camera in iPod touch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vECSyaegm1U

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8439/screencapturer.png

[AdeFowler]

70k apps in the apps store. Of those 70k apps 69k of them are complete and utter garbage.

So true.

I wonder if the Zune will ever get released outside the USA?

[gloomcookie1]

70k apps in the apps store. Of those 70k apps 69k of them are complete and utter garbage.

And I'm sure those developers appreciate you calling their work garbage. :rolleyes:

[Spades]

Aww I was anticipating a link to the Ballmer video about developers.

Ask and ye shall receive. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE) :D

[Roessnakhan]

And I'm sure those developers appreciate you calling their work garbage. :rolleyes:

Well flashlight and fart apps only have entertainment for so long...