Why do we need Virex?

[tech4all]

Ok what is the point of having Virex or any anti virus software on OS X if Macs don't even have any viruses to begin with? Virex (and other AV apps) have definitions to some viruses out there, so does that mean that there are indeed viruses for the Mac OS X?

And one more thing :D On my email accounts I sometimes get viruses which get detected by my Norton Anti Virus on my PC. If I access that same infected email message with my Mac, like with 'Mail', what would happen to the Mac (assuming the virus/worm does not infect Macintosh)? Would Virex detect and delete it, or would the virus/worm just go on the HD but not be able to run and infect since it can't run on OS X?

Hope that made sense ;)

[G5orbust]

While there arent many viruses at all for Macs, I think those applications serve two purposes.

1) Theyre a failsafe just in case there are some viruses you dont know about.
2) I believe they can scan documents for Pc viruses, alliviating the headache of your friends calling wondering why you sent them a virus (Im not sure if it actually does this but it wouldnt be that illogical of a feature, dont you think?)

[Dr. Dastardly]

The virus could still be on your Mac but it would be benign seeing that the virus targets files pertaining to a windows format. Therefor Norton is detecting the virus because your Mac has a virus, but it won't harm it either. It is still possible however to spread that virus to your PC.

Does that make sense? :p

[tech4all]

2) I believe they can scan documents for Pc viruses, alliviating the headache of your friends calling wondering why you sent them a virus (Im not sure if it actually does this but it wouldnt be that illogical of a feature, dont you think?)

The virus could still be on your Mac but it would be benign seeing that the virus targets files pertaining to a windows format. Therefor Norton is detecting the virus because your Mac has a virus, but it won't harm it either. It is still possible however to spread that virus to your PC.

Yea, thats what was I was thinking. Even though a Mac can not be infected with a (PC) virus, it can still hold it and tranfer it to a PC and spread it that way.

So then would Virex have pretty much the same virus definitions as other anti virus apps for the PC? Thus most/all the virus defintions Virex has are for the PC (since OS X doesn't have any viruses)?

[mr_mac]

Woah !

guys, the virus stored on your mac won't in ANY WAY spread on another machine unless you MANUALLY send them the file.

It's coded in a language that the mac cannot understand. The PC cannot access the file unless you share your drive and they acces the file manually.

Virus scanning software is TOTALLY useless. (Up to now) When a security flaw is discovered, Apple gets to work and fixes it. Keep your software up to date and you'll never have to worry about that.

The only REALLY annoying Virus i ever saw was Autostart 9805 in Mac os 8 or so. Something like 7-8 years ago. I've been a Senior Mac tech for like 12-15 years now.

Anyway, even if somebody creates a virus that can delete something or crash your system, OS X will ask you (in most cases) for your login/password to authorise the program. Just say no!

Virus scanning softwares tends to slow down computer since they scan all files at all time and use precious CPU processing time.

Final word,

Don't install a Virus software. It's not worth the time wasted.

Mrmac

[Timelessblur]

I will laugh my ass off when (not if when) you get a virus. First off you can spread them to other computer and if you spead it to one of your PC friends by accencedent guess who going to get chewed out.
2nd a lot of virus out there dont always run so you not going to know you have them until it to late.
3rd many virus can run on you computer and you not going to notic anything happening.
4th it takes so little CPU power it not even funny. The only pain in the ass I noticed with them is they are going to scan a document everytime you open it since many virus move on *.doc files or any document that is not a text file. that and it will scan any file that you download and save from the internet for a virus..... Hmmm does not seem like it wasting much cpu time since it does not scan 100% of the time. The only time it will kill the cpu is when you are running a full virus scan and those can be set 2 scan when you are not at the computer in the middle of the day or night.

beside it better to be safe than sorry. And besided it only a matter of time before before there is a virus for macs that causes a problem. there is no if the true question is when. and when it happens every going to wish they had antivirus software. As mac become more common and the people start using them some going to figure out the virus. Hell it now that pear PC is starting to get on a lot of computer it going to happen sooner.

[Bigheadache]

Alot of the latest gen AV scanners use heuristics, so even if they don't have a signature for a virus, there is some chance that the AV will catch it based on its behaviour (its not 100% of course). That's better than nothing.

its foolish to believe that just because there aren't any viruses now, there won't be any in future.

[BakedBeans]

Woah !

guys, the virus stored on your mac won't in ANY WAY spread on another machine unless you MANUALLY send them the file.

It's coded in a language that the mac cannot understand. The PC cannot access the file unless you share your drive and they acces the file manually.

Virus scanning software is TOTALLY useless. (Up to now) When a security flaw is discovered, Apple gets to work and fixes it. Keep your software up to date and you'll never have to worry about that.

The only REALLY annoying Virus i ever saw was Autostart 9805 in Mac os 8 or so. Something like 7-8 years ago. I've been a Senior Mac tech for like 12-15 years now.

Anyway, even if somebody creates a virus that can delete something or crash your system, OS X will ask you (in most cases) for your login/password to authorise the program. Just say no!

Virus scanning softwares tends to slow down computer since they scan all files at all time and use precious CPU processing time.

Final word,

Don't install a Virus software. It's not worth the time wasted.

Mrmac

thanks for that... you took the words from my mouth.....

[Horrortaxi]

I will laugh my ass off when (not if when) you get a virus. First off you can spread them to other computer and if you spead it to one of your PC friends by accencedent guess who going to get chewed out.
I'm scratching my head on this one. If there are no viruses for OS X, how can any antivirus software protect you? They need to know about the virus before they can do anything about it. The first day an OS X virus hits, we're all screwed--antivirus or not.

I don't agree that you can spread a PC virus to a friend by accident--unless by "accident" you mean "carelessness". The virus, since it can't run on your computer, can't send itself. So you have to send it as an attachment. It's certainly possible to send a virus that way, but I haven't heard of it happening. It's a low probability and I would think that there would be certain "high risk" activities that would increase it. It would be sort of the "sharing needles" of the computer world.

[G5orbust]

Woah !

guys, the virus stored on your mac won't in ANY WAY spread on another machine unless you MANUALLY send them the file.

Mrmac

Youre acting like we didnt know that already. Sheesh, we're not a bunch of n00bs here.

[Bigheadache]

I'm scratching my head on this one. If there are no viruses for OS X, how can any antivirus software protect you? They need to know about the virus before they can do anything about it. The first day an OS X virus hits, we're all screwed--antivirus or not.


AV software can help if it uses heuristics to detect viruses in addition to signature based scanning. It won't be 100%, but its better than nothing.

[virividox]

i used to use virex but then i realized i didnt need it so i deleted it

[tjwett]

Virex and all other anti-virus software use valuable clock resources behind the scenes and cause damage to your file system. there are no viruses for OS X. these products are a waste of money and of CPU. running these apps is about as helpful as walking around with a 75 pound steel Anti-Alien helmet on your head, just incase.

[mr_mac]

Laugh as much as you want.

If ever somebody comes out with a virus and Apple does not address the security issue within 2-3 days, then MAYBE, i'll consider, no, wait... Is there a way you think that when this virus comes out and starts spreading that it'll get in every Mac OS X computer in the world!!?

Common. The reason why on PC that there's so many Virii is that M$ Windbloze has like 20000 security flaws to spread them.

The kind of security flaws we got are like: "Safari can insert a page in a frame." This is critical. This will delete all files on your computer and spread all around the world!!

No, i won't get a virus. Why? I use files and software with my brain. I think before i open something.

A file that says Word installer that weighs 94k??? Is really somebody stupid enough to open that?

sorry guys, i do not doubt your skills, it's only that some posts were unclear.

This new post is aimed directly at timelessblur

Mrmac

[Horrortaxi]

AV software can help if it uses heuristics to detect viruses in addition to signature based scanning. It won't be 100%, but its better than nothing.
Can you explain how this works or what exactly it looks for? How likely is is that a Windows virus and a Mac virus would share enough in common for current av profiles to pick one up on the Mac?

[7on]

There's no way to future proof yourself. This one girl had al the latest us defs and the like and it scanned all the time (PC). Then her WMP stopped working. I fixed it but a week later a WMP9 removing virus was found. So she actually got the virus before it was added to the virus defs. The only safest way to avoid viruses and the like is with a hardware firewall. The simple file ones are easy to avoid though.

[bousozoku]

Can you explain how this works or what exactly it looks for? How likely is is that a Windows virus and a Mac virus would share enough in common for current av profiles to pick one up on the Mac?

MS Office viruses answer that. They can be designed carefully enough to run on both without change.

If you run MS Office, it's wise to be protected.

[Timelessblur]

I might like to point out virus that use those secirty flaws are normaly patch months before hand and I mean months (the Blaster virus used a hole that was patch that was issued several month before.) Never virus that have not been defined are normaly pick up by the bloodhound part of the AV software.

It always better to be safe than sorry and I am looking at my taskmanger right now. lets see antivirus software and firewall is useing 0% of my processor and a a few megs of ram boy that a real program isnt I am down 3 megs of ram..... boy that puts a real dent in my system.

[slowtreme]

The only thing Virex (or any OSX virus scanner) is looking for is some MS word macros, and viruses that Virex themselves have created and published. And the Office macros can't run on thier own anymore, since v.X you have to authorize them.

Frankly I'm very disturbed that:

1) Virex sells it's software with no real market to sell to
2) Virex has no market so they release source code to OSX exploits as "sample viruses".

Eventually someone will use this, and it will be the fault of the people you are paying to protect you. Kinda sounds like the mob. You are paying Protection money, protection from Virex themselves.

Doesn't seem like a company I want to give my money to.

[bousozoku]

The only thing Virex (or any OSX virus scanner) is looking for is some MS word macros, and viruses that Virex themselves have created and published. And the Office macros can't run on thier own anymore, since v.X you have to authorize them.

Frankly I'm very disturbed that:

1) Virex sells it's software with no real market to sell to
2) Virex has no market so they release source code to OSX exploits as "sample viruses".

Eventually someone will use this, and it will be the fault of the people you are paying to protect you. Kinda sounds like the mob. You are paying Protection money, protection from Virex themselves.

Doesn't seem like a company I want to give my money to.

You're so disturbed that you're completely incorrect in statement number 2.

McAfee/NAI/Dr. Solomon's have not introduced sample viruses. That was Intego who released sample proof-of-concept trojans, which are not viruses.

[FuzzyBallz]

You don't, people are just paranoid. I wish people would send me viruses... I feel so lonely w/o any virus loving for the past 15 years, Mac or PC.

[rainman::|:|]

I might like to point out virus that use those secirty flaws are normaly patch months before hand and I mean months (the Blaster virus used a hole that was patch that was issued several month before.) Never virus that have not been defined are normaly pick up by the bloodhound part of the AV software.

It always better to be safe than sorry and I am looking at my taskmanger right now. lets see antivirus software and firewall is useing 0% of my processor and a a few megs of ram boy that a real program isnt I am down 3 megs of ram..... boy that puts a real dent in my system.

Uh, being "safe than sorry" in this case is like, waiting an hour after eating to swim. It's entirely pointless. Sure, you won't do any damage by DOING it, but why on earth would you go to extra trouble for NO REASON?

Apple patches vulnerabilities very quickly, MS's track record is not part of this. Point is, there are no viruses, and until there are, having antivirus software is a waste of time, money, and processor cycles.

paul

[Bigheadache]

Can you explain how this works or what exactly it looks for? How likely is is that a Windows virus and a Mac virus would share enough in common for current av profiles to pick one up on the Mac?

Heuristics doesn't use signatures. It scans for viruses based on "virus like" behaviour. Its by no means perfect but it can sometimes detect new viruses for which they don't have a signature for. On the PC side, some of the really good AV software, like nod32 will detect new viruses using heuristics as "unknown", and then send a sample back to their research centre for analysis.

of course, this is not as good as having a signature for a virus, but for a "day zero" threat its better than nothing.

[g4cubed]

You're so disturbed that you're completely incorrect in statement number 2.

McAfee/NAI/Dr. Solomon's have not introduced sample viruses. That was Intego who released sample proof-of-concept trojans, which are not viruses.
;) Thank you someone needed to say that. Here's a link to the article:http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1591852,00.asp

[Horrortaxi]

Heuristics doesn't use signatures. It scans for viruses based on "virus like" behaviour.

That's what I'm asking about--what sort of viruslike behavior is it looking for? And would that behavior be the same on both platforms? I can see on Windows how this would work, but since the structure of the systems are so different and viruses on Windows take advantages of flaws that Mac OS doesn't have I"m wondering if a virus for Mac would look enough like one for Windows for the antivirus to catch.

[Bigheadache]

That's what I'm asking about--what sort of viruslike behavior is it looking for? And would that behavior be the same on both platforms? I can see on Windows how this would work, but since the structure of the systems are so different and viruses on Windows take advantages of flaws that Mac OS doesn't have I"m wondering if a virus for Mac would look enough like one for Windows for the antivirus to catch.

Well I'm not a virus writer, but I imagine things like installing its own smtp to send emails, trying to open ports frequently used by worms, trying to bulk email everyone in your email addressbook, etc would trigger it. I don't know every trick used by virus writers!!! the structural differences shouldn't make a difference, and although I agree Macs tend to be a bit more secure and should restrict alot of things, no system is perfect. I think heuristics can be really useful (but not perfect) for "day zero" threats where there is no virus signature or patch available yet.

[BrianKonarsMac]

you need virex because you're foolish enough to open attachments that you have no idea what the contents are. if you can maintain your curiosity, you don't really need it. Mac's DO have viruses, they just aren't widespread or highly dangerous, and programmers have little motive to write a virus for such a small user base, other than to prove the nay sayers wrong that mac viruses DO IN FACT exist, you just need to be semi brain dead to get infected.

[rainman::|:|]

you need virex because you're foolish enough to open attachments that you have no idea what the contents are. if you can maintain your curiosity, you don't really need it. Mac's DO have viruses, they just aren't widespread or highly dangerous, and programmers have little motive to write a virus for such a small user base, other than to prove the nay sayers wrong that mac viruses DO IN FACT exist, you just need to be semi brain dead to get infected.

Prove it.

List all known OS X viruses.

Or, "put out or get out".

you can't list any, because there aren't any.

paul

[Horrortaxi]

things like installing its own smtp to send emails, trying to open ports frequently used by worms, trying to bulk email everyone in your email addressbook, etc would trigger it.
The virus would have to send commands to do these things, right? Miss Cleo doesn't just wish malice into a jpeg and send it on and make it work. The virus can try to do whatever it wants, but it would be a fish out of water on a Mac. You know how well fish can swim out of water.

[Timelessblur]

god you guys are cocky. There are viruses. You are acting like there never will be. It not a question of IF there will be a nasty wide spred virus like blaster. that hit macs. It a question of when. And what is going to be comical about is it going to uses some secerty hole that was patch 6-7 months before the virus came out. Lets face the facts most people do not bother maintain there computers with software updates. Most people are very very poor about software updates.

Fact is there are not many virus out for OSX for 2 reasons. First the OS really new compared to windows system. so they had what 3-4 years to virus to come up. Lets compare that to windows.... they are coming up on 10 years. Yeah XP is very diffent than 95 but still it close enough to to where a lot of the trick for virus that could hit win95 system can be used on an XP system. The other is raw numbers. THere plainly just more windows computers out there than Mac.

NO SYSTYEM IS FOOL PROOF. It used to be believe that windows computer dont need virus proctetion. We never put on our windows 95 sytem and it stayed virus free for more of it life. It was close to the end when it finally got a virus on it. But by then we areadly had another computer that stayed virus free. Now that computer is currently is running XP. The virus scaner has nailed about 10 virses in 4-5 years on that computer. It not a be problem unless you are on a network. Now my laptop last year was on a school network flooded with viruses. My virus scanner stop I thinking 5-7 in a year that is saw try to run. One a system scan it pick up 1. btw the 5-7 where pick up during the week that I had my firewall droped. So I dont know how baddly I would of been hit if it was not for my firewall but the virus scanner would of kept my computer clean.


Basicly my though on the mac Virse checker as it stands is you can go with out it if a home computer for now. But if it going to be hook into a network like at school it better damn well have one and a firewall because when the virus hits it going to flood school networks.

[Horrortaxi]

Huh huh huh...you said cock...

I've never in my life said that that there will never be a virus on OS X. I'm saying that current antivirus is worthless against future viruses and there are a limited amount of people that are in a situation where they need to run antivirus on their Mac. When we get a virus running through the Mac community I'll consider using antivirus. Until then I'm going to enjoy this nifty benefit of Mac ownership.

[Bigheadache]

The virus would have to send commands to do these things, right? Miss Cleo doesn't just wish malice into a jpeg and send it on and make it work. The virus can try to do whatever it wants, but it would be a fish out of water on a Mac. You know how well fish can swim out of water.

I meant heuristics would try to catch all viruses in general based on behaviour, not just specifically windows and pc viruses. Thats going to come in handy when that first big mac virus comes around. I'd love to think macs were perfect when it comes to security, but I'm a realist, not an Apple apologist.

[broken_keyboard]

Virus checker programs...I hate them. They are so invasive, with their stinkin' background processes and email program plugins.

If you have a program or attachment and you're not sure whether it is safe or not, then run it under another user account. Make a separate non-admin account and fast user-switch to it. If the prog turns out to be a virus, all it can do it wreck one empty home directory.

[Horrortaxi]

I meant heuristics would try to catch all viruses in general based on behaviour, not just specifically windows and pc viruses. Thats going to come in handy when that first big mac virus comes around. I'd love to think macs were perfect when it comes to security, but I'm a realist, not an Apple apologist.

Whose apologizing? I see now what you mean about heuristics. I'm still not convinced but I see the possibility. This is just one of those "only time will tell" deals.

[dav]

I don't even have a virus scanner for windows

*scratch head* :) :) :rolleyes: