PowerBook G5 in January a give in?

[macreator]

Now that an iMac G5 is close by, is a PBG5 next January a give in?

[m.r.m.]

i don´t think so. i still believe it isn´t possible to cool a g5 in a portable computer yet. my 12" pb is barely handling the g4 when it´s actually on my lap.

[invaLPsion]

We all thought that a Powermac G5 update in early Spring of 2004 was a give in, too... :rolleyes:

[fingers]

I think the cupertino crew have got their work cut out - unless they do away with the slimeline factor of the current line of G4 powerbooks...

I have just bought a 17" PB and next to it in the store was a very similarly specced sony (i think, could have been hp - does it matter?) laptop - it looked like my 3 old's toy computer - big, bulbous and plastic - and only slightly cheaper than the stylish and waife like apple product. Urrrggghh.

I am pretty sure apple won't go that route.

[pjkelnhofer]

Now that an iMac G5 is close by, is a PBG5 next January a give in?
Nothing is a given.

[michaelrjohnson]

There are no guarantees... period.


That being said, there is a possibility, but I dont think anybody can make even a somewhat educated guess until we get much, much closer to that date.

[pjkelnhofer]

There are no guarantees... period.


That being said, there is a possibility, but I dont think anybody can make even a somewhat educated guess until we get much, much closer to that date.

Good point. First we have to wait for AppleInsider to post pictures and then Apple legal to tell them to take the pictures down... then we will know they are coming.
;)

[Bhennies]

Now that an iMac G5 is close by, is a PBG5 next January a give in?I think an announcement even at NAB next year would most likely be wishful thinking.

[Florida Gator]

what ever happened to a G5-Mobile or the e700?

[pjkelnhofer]

what ever happened to a G5-Mobile or the e700?
There is no such thing a the G5-Mobile and the e700 is not yet shipping.

Both good thoughts though, it will probably not be a 970FX when the G5 PB's finally come out.

[yamabushi]

I think that a G5 (970FX) Powerbook in the 1.4-1.6GHz range should be possible. The 1.4 is being advertised for use in the embedded systems market even in dual configurations. Power draw and heat dissipation is very much under control at 1.4GHz and is suitable even for a slim notebook. At 1.6GHz you have perhaps twice as much heat to deal with so this is still manageable in the 17" case and possibly even the 15" case. The supporting chipset puts off some extra heat as well, but there is some room for compromise at the cost of some performance. The next generation of Ati GPUs appear to generate less heat and draw less power than before so this also is good news.

I think some approximate reasonable specs for 1Q2005 could include:
12"PB-1.4GHzG5/Mobility Radeon x300GPU
15"PB-1.5GHzG5/Mobility Radeon x600GPU
17"PB-1.6GHzG5/Mobility Radeon x600GPU

Even though the G4 15" PB is also available at 1.5GHz the new model should perform much better at the same clock speed. A 15"PB@1.6GHz model might also be possible but would require very innovative cooling. I just hope sufficient attention is paid to the I/O subsystem since this is absolutely critical in a laptop. The current G4 Powerbook beats the G5 PowerMac in some respects when it comes to I/O according to Barefeats.

[phonic pol]

It's possible that they'll run two form factors for a while until the g5 is small/portable enough i.e. Current ultra portable/desirable g4 and a larger mobile machine sporting a g5. The g5 version could be a hybrid of the powerbook and imac concepts i.e. a heavier design, still portable like a laptop but offering functionality more like a desktop in terms of the way it folds out and is used. This would justify the two form factors and prolong the life of the g4. It would also be a lower risk route because apple wouldn't be betting on the g5 for all portable pro machines. You know how these things go, there's bound to be a few teething problems with the first batch of g5 portables.

[pjkelnhofer]

It's possible that they'll run two form factors for a while until the g5 is small/portable enough i.e. Current ultra portable/desirable g4 and a larger mobile machine sporting a g5. The g5 version could be a hybrid of the powerbook and imac concepts i.e. a heavier design, still portable like a laptop but offering functionality more like a desktop in terms of the way it folds out and is used. This would justify the two form factors and prolong the life of the g4. It would also be a lower risk route because apple wouldn't be betting on the g5 for all portable pro machines. You know how these things go, there's bound to be a few teething problems with the first batch of g5 portables.

I seriously doubt you would see two divisions with the PB line. That is what the iBook is. The iBook will have the G4 for a while after the PB goes to G5. That is the division that will exist within the portable line.

[CmdrLaForge]

Even though the G4 15" PB is also available at 1.5GHz the new model should perform much better at the same clock speed.

I don't think so. The pipeline in the G5 is much longer. If they get the bus speed up + L3 cache then maybe. But just the chips at the same clockspeed - G4 should be faster.

Anyway, my guess is that IBM needs to develop a special notebook chip which runs cooler. And that takes its time.

[stoid]

Actually, Apple has G5 PowerBooks running at 2.5 GHz right along side the PowerMacs. The problem is that Jon Ive is having a brain fart trying to design a enclosure that trumps the style of the current Aluminum enclosure. And you KNOW that Steve is NOT going to releaze a new PowerBook without a radically new enclosure.

Why do you think we've been waiting so long for an iMac? Jon Ive is just having a hard time creating 'the next big thing'.

[phonic pol]

I seriously doubt you would see two divisions with the PB line. That is what the iBook is. The iBook will have the G4 for a while after the PB goes to G5. That is the division that will exist within the portable line.

I was just doing a bit of lateral thinking! Think about it, what I described above could be the long awaited revised imac, just slightly more portable and very desireable. Of course they won't call it a power book but the divisions between the two could lessen.

[Sun Baked]

Considering Motorola is now rebranding PPC970 products and selling them, it isn't a very hopeful sign of Freescale having a competing product anytime soon. :p

Then again there are some odd happenings beginning with the 7447A, like the odd document about changes to the pinout.

[macreator]

Okay. So if not next January, when do people think the PowerBook G5 will debut?

[Zaty]

Okay. So if not next January, when do people think the PowerBook G5 will debut?

WWDC 2005

[wordmunger]

The powermac G4 was introduced in September 1999. The powerbook G4 was introduced in January 2001--just under a year and a half. If we have a similar life cycle for G5s, we should be expecting powerbooks in October 2004.

This is all conjecture, of course, but I suspect Steve would wait for MWSF if that's when it's ready -- that's about when computers announced in October would start shipping anyway.

[JFreak]

i am expecting a G5 powerbook in january. i'm hoping this current lineup is the last one with a G4 inside, but as we have seen with the problems (thus delays) with the 90nm process --- it may very well be that we will see one more G4 revision before the G5 would be released in WWDC 2005. if that happens, we will likely see the last G4 powerbook in november this year.

it's so nice to guess :)

whatever apple does, i will not buy the revA G5 powerbook but rather wait for at least revB model. i have a revA 15" albook in hand so i can wait for a while. this has a 1.25GHz cpu so the G5 powerbook would have to be +2.5GHz before i can justify a new one.

(generally speaking user will notice the performance difference when the clock speed doubles or triples. so while having a 2GHz G5 powerbook would look nice, it wouldn't be that dramatically faster than this G4 beast. and while the current 15-incher looks more impressive in tech specs - 20% cpu speed increase for example - the real-world advantage shouldn't be much. and by real-world i mean protools; by nearly doubling the clock speed, i noticed a very nice performance gain by switching a 667mhz tibook to this one. but it wasn't a "night and day" difference.)

[FuzzyBallz]

Don't you mean given?

Hmmm... it's pretty much guaranteed it'll be water cooled, and there's bound to be numerous returns and repairs for it. Maybe Apple will increase Apple Care price for the new PBs.

[James L]

So, to sum up:

No one knows, no one has any idea, and everything you read is pure speculation!

The only given is that Apple has said it won't be this year. Anything else is rumor, conjecture, a best guess, etc.

[JFreak]

So, to sum up: No one knows.

oh, but i do know! the G5 powerbooks are available when they are :) not before...

[quagmire]

There is no such thing a the G5-Mobile and the e700 is not yet shipping.

Both good thoughts though, it will probably not be a 970FX when the G5 PB's finally come out.\

You also forgotton about the Powertune G5 a.k.a mobile G5. They run cooler then the current 970fx chips. Now the only thing to do now is design, the battery, and find a way to shrink lcs. The Powertune is also going to be in the imac G5. With the news of the imac G5(hopefully) in september the chances of the Powerbook G5 in January only increases. But, still not a given.

[AmigoMac]

And you KNOW that Steve is NOT going to releaze a new PowerBook without a radically new enclosure.
'.

You're right, I just will tell you, apple is going Wide-screen for the PB line and staying 4:3 for iBooks... I can really see a 13" 15" 17" G5 PB line...

:cool:

[AmigoMac]

is the second week of January... :p ;)

So, to sum up:

No one knows, no one has any idea, and everything you read is pure speculation!

The only given is that Apple has said it won't be this year. Anything else is rumor, conjecture, a best guess, etc.

[Florida Gator]

You're right, I just will tell you, apple is going Wide-screen for the PB line and staying 4:3 for iBooks... I can really see a 13" 15" 17" G5 PB line...

:cool:


I hope so 13 is JUST right

[jsw]

I'm sure Apple will try their damnedest to get a G5 PB out by the time Tiger is released. They might not be able to, but I'd imagine that is their target date. I'd not be surprised by PB screen res improvements, a 7200 RPM drive, and other tweaks before then to keep buyers coming.

[Dr. Dastardly]

I'm thinking MWSF 05 unlike most. Just based on some of the stuff you hear about powertune, the Imac line getting the G5. Also they said it probably won't be this year, good thing MWSF is the second week of 2005.

I DO NOT think that it will be liquid cooled though. That is fine with a desktop but not a Powerbook.

[FuzzyBallz]

I DO NOT think that it will be liquid cooled though. That is fine with a desktop but not a Powerbook.
And I suppose you have a better way to cool the super hot G5 CPU w/o the need of enlarging the PB chassis or keeping the noise down while multiple mini fans are screaming inside?

[aswitcher]

And I suppose you have a better way to cool the super hot G5 CPU w/o the need of enlarging the PB chassis or keeping the noise down while multiple mini fans are screaming inside?


Possible liquid cooling.

I think the G5 will have the new fuel cell technology under serious consideration to get the power requirements to run the chip and the cooling for the next generation of PBs... They could blow the market away with a machine capable of 8-10 hours operating time, and Apple are a market leader so I think they will do this.

[Dr. Dastardly]

Possible liquid cooling.

I think the G5 will have the new fuel cell technology under serious consideration to get the power requirements to run the chip and the cooling for the next generation of PBs... They could blow the market away with a machine capable of 8-10 hours operating time, and Apple are a market leader so I think they will do this.
Thats what I was thinking about. Liquid cooling just seems to risky in a $3000 laptop. What if god forbid you drop it? Bent aluminum (if they still keep alu) will be the least of your worries. :eek:

[Dr. Dastardly]

Also, can someone answear me if the liquid cooling technology is really in the 2.5 because the chip is "super hot" or is it just to make it super quite?

[bertagert]

I'll put my money where my mouth is if anyoone wants to take me up on the offer. The PowerBook will have a moto chip in for the next two speed bumps (maybe even three).

Any takers?

[Florida Gator]

I'll put my money where my mouth is if anyoone wants to take me up on the offer. The PowerBook will have a moto chip in for the next two speed bumps (maybe even three).

Any takers?


but will it be the same G4 or an e600, e700 or something else?

[bertagert]

but will it be the same G4 or an e600, e700 or something else?
e600

[yamabushi]

I don't think so. The pipeline in the G5 is much longer. If they get the bus speed up + L3 cache then maybe. But just the chips at the same clockspeed - G4 should be faster.

Anyway, my guess is that IBM needs to develop a special notebook chip which runs cooler. And that takes its time.

The performance of a G5 beats a G4 at the same clock speed despite the longer pipeline with code that is optimized for each. Early tests of the G5 showed it would only perform about as well as the G4 with G4 optimized code. Anything that is compiled with the G5 in mind will absolutely crush the G4. Even with old G4 code NASA was able to achieve a slight improvement in perfomance efficiency per clock cycle. The G5 is more powerful than the G4.

Also, Apple only needs to beat a 167MHz bus speed which is simple even with a 4x multiplier. If the bus were run normally at one quarter of the cpu then we have a 1.4GHz cpu w/350MHz bus, 1.5GHz cpu w/375MHz bus, and a 1.6GHz cpu w/400MHz bus. Heck, even at a 8x multiplier they would have a faster bus than the G4. I think we can safely assume the bus speed will improve significantly.

I think the benefits of L3 cache are not nearly as great as a much smaller increase in L2 cache. I have seen reports that L3 cache can actually be detrimental for applications that are not specifically optimized to take advantage of it. I think L2+fast RAM is a better solution in the real world for the time being.

As I stated before, heat is a not a serious issue for the G5 at lower clock speeds. The G5 produces less heat on average than the G4 at similar speeds. The small die will require some innovative design because of the greater heat for a given amount of surface area but the overall heat produced is less. If Powertune is implemented and works as advertised it will make both heat dispersion and power draw even less of an issue.