Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.3.5 [Archive]

MacRumors

Jul 8, 2004, 10:48 PM

jackieonasses

Jul 8, 2004, 10:51 PM

so will this be avaliable to me?? a guy without a new one? via software update i hope!

AliensAreFuzzy

Jul 8, 2004, 10:59 PM

New updates are always welcome.

Dr. Dastardly

Jul 8, 2004, 11:00 PM

I want to download this ASAP! Hopefully with some new network stability issues fixed.

puckhead193

Jul 8, 2004, 11:01 PM

When will this be avalible. I plan on buying a powerbook in like 3 weeks. I hope you can just update it. Why "release" a new version when tiger is going to be out osoon, just update the bugs and security patches.
But i guess that's cool

javabear90

Jul 8, 2004, 11:03 PM

is it just me, or does every update mess with networking?

Freg3000

Jul 8, 2004, 11:04 PM

is it just me, or does every update mess with networking?

They always seem to mess with Networking, FireWire, OpenGL, etc.

They are never perfect. :)

Lancetx

Jul 8, 2004, 11:05 PM

Since Tiger isn't going to be out for another 6-8 months, I doubt this will be the last update to Panther that we'll see. And of course they'll all be free via software update just as 10.3.1, .2, .3 and .4 were...

MikeTheC

Jul 8, 2004, 11:06 PM

is it just me, or does every update mess with networking?

Well, I have been fortunate enough to not have any complications due to this, but I am having a WiFi networking problem on my iMac 800. I wonder if it is OS-upgrade related.

Hmmm...

coumerelli

Jul 8, 2004, 11:12 PM

yum!

I need better BT.

reorx

Jul 8, 2004, 11:14 PM

Well, I have been fortunate enough to not have any complications due to this, but I am having a WiFi networking problem on my iMac 800. I wonder if it is OS-upgrade related.

Hmmm...

I had some wierdness with wireless on my new PB, too... Didn't want to play nice with my existing 802.11g stuff, especially after sleeping. Of course, I'm an code-rewriting fanatic, and look forward to any new updates...

dizastor

Jul 8, 2004, 11:18 PM

Sweet!

Lets hope it rears its ugly head soon.

Oirectine

Jul 8, 2004, 11:25 PM

Could this be related to the afore-mentioned Safari 1.3 seed?

gwuMACaddict

Jul 8, 2004, 11:28 PM

agreed... haven't we been talking about safari 1.3 for a while now?

bcsmith

Jul 8, 2004, 11:31 PM

is it just me, or does every update mess with networking?

I've had a lot of the networking options turned off whenever a point upgrade comes out. The annoying one is the printer sharing. Why does Apple have to turn this off every time?

Duff-Man

Jul 8, 2004, 11:35 PM

Why "release" a new version when tiger is going to be out osoon, just update the bugs and security patches.
But i guess that's coolDuff-Man says...have you paid attention to any of the info about Tiger? It has been made *very* clear right from the WWDC presentation that 10.4 is *at least* 6 months away, possibly as long as a year. So, yes, there will still be updates to 10.3 and you will be able to use your software update to get them for free....oh yeah!

feeze

Jul 8, 2004, 11:50 PM

just a quick question, when Panther was released did Apple stop relasing free updates for Jaguar (my computer came with Panther so I wouldn't have a clue)

Little Endian

Jul 8, 2004, 11:58 PM

just a quick question, when Panther was released did Apple stop relasing free updates for Jaguar (my computer came with Panther so I wouldn't have a clue)

Yes Apple stops Updates once new OS versions ship. Jaguar Updated ended at 10.2.8 if I remember Correctly.

virus1

Jul 8, 2004, 11:59 PM

just to keep us happy until tiger comes...

Bernd

Jul 9, 2004, 12:01 AM

just a quick question, when Panther was released did Apple stop relasing free updates for Jaguar (my computer came with Panther so I wouldn't have a clue)
Their have been no 10.2.x upgrades since Panther came out but we are still getting bug fixes and security updates at this time. :)

MacFan26

Jul 9, 2004, 12:13 AM

It has been made *very* clear right from the WWDC presentation that 10.4 is *at least* 6 months away, possibly as long as a year.

I hope it doesn't take a whole year for Tiger to be released. It'd be cool if it could be early 2005 instead of closer to Spring. Good to see they'll be updating Panther still while we wait :D

darkwing

Jul 9, 2004, 12:19 AM

Great another release. That means another bug report to apple reporting the transparent text ghosting bug in terminal. They had the same problem in 10.1.

I guess that's why I'm writing my own terminal. One that doesn't take 65% of the cpu when you do a while true ; echo hi ; done

FoxyKaye

Jul 9, 2004, 12:27 AM

Their have been no 10.2.x upgrades since Panther came out but we are still getting bug fixes and security updates at this time. :)

It wouldn't kill Apple to at least standardize all versions of certain programs, oh, like SAFARI for example. The irony for me is that I can't run Panther at home b/c I have an upgraded Beige G3 (OK, well, I could, but there's still a lot of interfacing work left to be done), but I run Panther at work on an old G3/350 iMac. It's a real pain in the butt to still be working on Safari 1.0.2 on a better system. :rolleyes:

JohnGalt

Jul 9, 2004, 12:29 AM

Thinksecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/macosx1035.html) that Apple has already seeded Mac OS X 10.3.5 to developers today.

According to the rumor site, the new seed has changes in Mail, Safari, OpenGL, Networking, Graphics, Bluetooth, Firewire, and Audio/Sound.

The newest revision of Panther is said to be running on the (as yet) unreleased dual 2.5GHz PowerMac G5s.

If memory serves me correctly (and if you want to buy some swamp land in ....):

The first seed of 10.3.4 was on/about 4/20 with a full release on 5/26....

so in roughly one month we should see 10.3.5.....??

Kewl.

broken_keyboard

Jul 9, 2004, 12:31 AM

is it just me, or does every update mess with networking?

That's a good observation. And it's strange because being based on BSD you would think it would have the oldest and most stable networking code of any system.

JFreak

Jul 9, 2004, 01:18 AM

That's a good observation. And it's strange because being based on BSD you would think it would have the oldest and most stable networking code of any system.

there's nothing wrong with networking in the low level - that has been perfected in the 70's. apple however tries to make some high-level networking in their operating system, and that takes a lot of trial-and-error to make it perfect.

...or would you be happy with just a physical network interface and a tcp/ip stack? you can after all do whatever you want with it. via command-line interface. it's all there.

as mac is all about gui, i have come to expect being able to easily connect to network shares, too, via gui. i have become so lazy i don't want to use terminal whenever i want to do whatever in some remote resource. apple is doing a good job here, and while the features have been there for a while, they are far from optimized and still not bug-free.

MikeTheC

Jul 9, 2004, 01:22 AM

i have become so lazy i don't want to use terminal whenever i want to do whatever in some remote resource. apple is doing a good job here, and while the features have been there for a while, they are far from optimized and still not bug-free.

To say nothing of capitalizing your "i"s. Sorry, not a nitpick but an observation.

BTW, I agree with you, and no, I wouldn't want an exclusively command-line interface for that either.

AirUncleP

Jul 9, 2004, 01:23 AM

A doctor once told me "THE ENEMY OF GOOD IS BETTER"
True in some cases.
When it comes to Mac OS', I don't see it.
Keep leading us forward APPLE Inc.

P.S. Any Job openings in Denver?

FoxyKaye

Jul 9, 2004, 01:38 AM

there's nothing wrong with networking in the low level - that has been perfected in the 70's. apple however tries to make some high-level networking in their operating system, and that takes a lot of trial-and-error to make it perfect.

Agreed - I also think Apple is doing their best to make the entire OS conform to standards, so that the high-level proprietary stuff translates down to the BSD commands in an elegant fashion. I imagine this is why there are also frequent "network" improvements in OS updates.

Compare this to Microsoft, who if I recall correctly, briefly floated the idea of creating their own proprietary version of TCP/IP a few years ago. Gods, can you imagine, MS TCP/IP? They've already screwed Java up enough.

Any way the deck gets cut, I'd rather have frequent OS updates from Apple than deal with M$ constantly trying to create their own standards and force them on other folks so that they can get away with otherwise ridiculous OS command handling that circumvents time-tested things like, oh, security. I mean, this is at least part of the reason Windows is always getting hacked by viruses that exploit security flaws created by these types of workarounds in the OS.

OS X = Secure
Windows = Scary

garybUK

Jul 9, 2004, 02:00 AM

Networking (SMB) on MAC OS is provided by the courtosy of Samba (with a few tweaks), they have been developing Samba to work with Microsoft's CIFS by trial and error (Microsoft dont release their code), thats why you see constant network updates, plus the fact Apple are trying to integrate this software into the finder, its always going to be problematic at best because Microsoft dont want you sharing using their technology, they would rather you install the Apple Services in Windows Server.

One area i find really bad in OSX in regards to networking (more so than windows sharing) is FTP, my god why cant they put a simple ftp client into safari or something like IE, why mount it as a drive, this never seems to work properly, instead i have to use cyberduck

MacinDoc

Jul 9, 2004, 02:04 AM

The irony for me is that I can't run Panther at home b/c I have an upgraded Beige G3 (OK, well, I could, but there's still a lot of interfacing work left to be done), but I run Panther at work on an old G3/350 iMac.
Do you mean that there are interfacing problems with xpostfacto? I was thinking of upgrading to Panther, too, and I had read that most of the problems had been ironed out. If there are still problems, I may wait to upgrade my OS...

BTW, did you ever try changing the jumper settings to overclock your G3 desktop (hey, except for the processor, it's even more overhauled than mine!)

roadwarrior

Jul 9, 2004, 02:17 AM

Do you mean that there are interfacing problems with xpostfacto? I was thinking of upgrading to Panther, too, and I had read that most of the problems had been ironed out. If there are still problems, I may wait to upgrade my OS...

BTW, did you ever try changing the jumper settings to overclock your G3 desktop (hey, except for the processor, it's even more overhauled than mine!)

I'm not quite sure what he means by that either. I've got Panther running on a PowerMac 7300 upgraded to a G3/300 using XPostFacto with no problems.

JFreak

Jul 9, 2004, 02:24 AM

One area i find really bad in OSX in regards to networking is FTP, my god why cant they put a simple ftp client into safari or something like IE, why mount it as a drive, this never seems to work properly.

i think you are wrong here. if you want a full-reatured ftp gui client, try transmit by www.panic.com or if you can, use it via command-line. that is as good as it gets. and the ftp thingy in idiot explorer has always sucked, no matter how to look at it.

on the other hand, the way apple mounts ftp connections as "drives" the same way they mount other shares, well, that's good - one less thing for newbies to learn. just give them a proper link to a resource and let them use it as a "drive". (by the way, these are "mounts", not "drives". osx doesn't care if it's a local hard drive or a network share. a mount is a mount and introduced as a directory under /Volumes which is hidden in finder to avoid confusion. i think apple does wonderful job with making it simple for a regular user.)

what i want apple to do about ftp is to make it happen securely, too. i cannot believe sftp doesn't work the way ftp does. at least here in europe the standard ftp is more and more being banned because it is insecure. almost everyone here uses secure ftp.

garybUK

Jul 9, 2004, 03:01 AM

what i want apple to do about ftp is to make it happen securely, too. i cannot believe sftp doesn't work the way ftp does. at least here in europe the standard ftp is more and more being banned because it is insecure. almost everyone here uses secure ftp.

I agree but the authentication on a volume mount from a ftp server seems to take FOREVER!!! might be because im behind a proxy but other ftp clients work fine. typically i just use the fetch command in terminal, a lot easier.

But i have to disagree about the ftp client in ie, it works fine, for downloading only. Click a link and its there you are browing the ftp site in the browser and it works fine, click the file and save it... of course this one feature still doesn't make me want to have IE installed on my G5

yes sftp is kind of a rudamentry implementation for any security centric network, im shocked apple didn't include support for this in their UI.

vannote

Jul 9, 2004, 03:36 AM

That's a good observation. And it's strange because being based on BSD you would think it would have the oldest and most stable networking code of any system.

BSD (FreeBSD) is in the middle of revamping some of its networking code with v/5.x. I remember reading somewhere that Apple grabbed some of that new code. Unfortunately, FreeBSD 5.x is not even at "STABLE" yet. So, yes there may be issues.

This tidbit is off the top of my head, but it stuck with me as I have major WiFI problems with a PB 800 (Snow Base) where the Airport driver will periodically freeze the machine solid. This has been acknowledged by Apple as a known problem.

Regards

JayBee

Jul 9, 2004, 03:40 AM

... my god why cant they put a simple ftp client into safari or something like IE...

What, and give the Konfuzzled Konfabulator weenies another "pariah" in Panic Software?

"OMFG! I CANT' BELEIV TAHT APPL WOULD RIP OFFF TRANSMIT!!! THAT'S SO M$ STYEL! I'MN EVER BYEING A MAC AGAIN!!!!!!!"

:D

And as someone very astutely pointed out, if you could mount an FTP login as a writeable drive, who needs an iDisk for web publishing?

;)

caveman_uk

Jul 9, 2004, 04:09 AM

I want to download this ASAP! Hopefully with some new network stability issues fixed.
Wait until it comes out for real - then wait a little while more. Remember the cutting edge can be a little sharp and pointy sometimes
:D

robbieduncan

Jul 9, 2004, 04:26 AM

It wouldn't kill Apple to at least standardize all versions of certain programs, oh, like SAFARI for example. The irony for me is that I can't run Panther at home b/c I have an upgraded Beige G3 (OK, well, I could, but there's still a lot of interfacing work left to be done), but I run Panther at work on an old G3/350 iMac. It's a real pain in the butt to still be working on Safari 1.0.2 on a better system. :rolleyes:

The newer versions of Safari rely on improvements to the underlying system to work. For example 1.1 (or was it 1.2) supports text shadows via css. This is done via the NSShadow class. As this is only available on 10.3 or above there is no easy way to get the newer Safari running on 10.2. The same holds true for a number of apps and technologies (Cocoa Bindings for example).

aussie_geek

Jul 9, 2004, 04:50 AM

Was just thinking the other day that it was about time for an update. It's funny that I have been running software update manually for the last week or so expecting some new goodies... ;)

aussie_geek

johnnyjibbs

Jul 9, 2004, 05:48 AM

The newer versions of Safari rely on improvements to the underlying system to work. For example 1.1 (or was it 1.2) supports text shadows via css. This is done via the NSShadow class. As this is only available on 10.3 or above there is no easy way to get the newer Safari running on 10.2. The same holds true for a number of apps and technologies (Cocoa Bindings for example).
Of course they could solve that problem by making Panther free ;)

Only kidding, Apple has to make money somehow...

Addressing some of the earlier comments about Jaguar updates after the release of Panther - the answer is no (and Panther updates will cease after Tiger's launch). The last update each major revision of the OS tends to be a stable one that allows people to stick with that version. I'm sure if some major bug was found at a later date, they may release a patch though.

Security updates, for example, have also recently been issued to Jaguar users as well as Panther users.

wordmunger

Jul 9, 2004, 07:31 AM

And as someone very astutely pointed out, if you could mount an FTP login as a writeable drive, who needs an iDisk for web publishing?

Good point, but I don't use iDisk for Web publishing; I use it for automatic background syncing. Still, as I have said many times, if Apple doesn't significantly bump up iDisk space, I won't be renewing my subscription to .mac.

Sabbath

Jul 9, 2004, 07:34 AM

Could this be related to the afore-mentioned Safari 1.3 seed?

Yup lets hope we see it soon, I always like safari updates especially speedups, safari is great but still a few things to be ironed out. Networking can always do with tweaking it seems, I still often have trouble connecting to windows computers.

It looks like we might be seeing this a bit sooner than AI suggested however which is great news as long as it works!

MikeTheC

Jul 9, 2004, 08:32 AM

I'm not quite sure what he means by that either. I've got Panther running on a PowerMac 7300 upgraded to a G3/300 using XPostFacto with no problems.

How are you guys getting these old systems to run Panther? I (amongst other things) have a Beige G3 at home, and Panther hangs on boot off the original CD (even though this CD boots up anything else I've got flawlessly).

age234

Jul 9, 2004, 09:08 AM

I hope they've fixed the "local string not found" bug in Safari.

MacNeXT

Jul 9, 2004, 10:19 AM

How are you guys getting these old systems to run Panther? I (amongst other things) have a Beige G3 at home, and Panther hangs on boot off the original CD (even though this CD boots up anything else I've got flawlessly).

http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/

It's a great piece of software!

The Red Wolf

Jul 9, 2004, 10:44 AM

[QUOTE=FoxyKaye]It wouldn't kill Apple to at least standardize all versions of certain programs, oh, like SAFARI for example. The irony for me is that I can't run Panther at home b/c I have an upgraded Beige G3 (OK, well, I could, but there's still a lot of interfacing work left to be done), but I run Panther at work on an old G3/350 iMac. It's a real pain in the butt to still be working on Safari 1.0.2 on a better system.

Apple discontinued support for any machines that were "beige". Doesn't mean you can't get Panther to run on them with upgrade cards, its just not supported.

The Red Wolf

Jul 9, 2004, 10:50 AM

invaLPsion

Jul 9, 2004, 01:13 PM

i hope this update provides an OpenGL speedup to make our games look better and run faster!!!!!! OH BOY OH BOY!

virividox

Jul 9, 2004, 01:48 PM

woo hoo cant wait bring on the updates

MikeTheC

Jul 9, 2004, 02:14 PM

JFreak

Jul 9, 2004, 02:26 PM

I'm not saying that Apple is infallible, but their updates are a heck of a lot better an alternative to Microsoft's incessant "fixes".

you got that right. my work pc always seems to break when the it support does the updates. i'm not allowed to do it myself, and i thank god for it :) windows is just the worst piece of software ever written. i couldn't write worse code myself.

FoxyKaye

Jul 9, 2004, 02:30 PM

I'm not quite sure what he means by that either. I've got Panther running on a PowerMac 7300 upgraded to a G3/300 using XPostFacto with no problems.

FoxyKaye = "she" - MacRumors isn't entirely filled with BoyGeeks ;)

What I mean is that XPostFacto will do the job of getting Panther on a Beige system, however, to my understanding you need something better than the Rage128 installed in one of your PCI slots in order to have video. Last I checked in on it, the internal video still isn't supported. Also, running XPostFacto is no guarantee for a successful installation - and it seems like you're running the chance that a software upgrade later on will undo the whole knot. Rember, XPostFacto is a software hack, so even though it's really cool, it isn't Apple.

It's true that 10.2.8 is running fine on my current machine, and a few other folks pointed out the specific improvements to the underlying OS that would prevent an easy upgrade for Safari and a few other programs on the Jaguar platform (a few of which I was unaware). It's just that as a Beige owner it's hard not to feel a little burned, beginning with the whole disabled disk drive issue - I consider the Beige machines a far more expandable version of the early iMacs (even though they lacked a few of the new MoBo improvements) and they are certainly reliable. It has only been in the past year that I've started having hardware glitches pop up on me, which is amazing for a machine manufactured in 1998.

Although, imagine the outcry if Apple suddenly decided to not support the Blue & White G3 towers when Tiger is released... :eek:

Looks like its time to spend a few more bucks, either on a used Radeon 7000 or a used Blue/White. :(

Hey, anyone out there have a Rev. 2 Blue/White or Mac Radeon 7000 PCI for like next to nothing in the SF Bay Area? Good Karma for helping out a nonprofit-employed, Geek-Potter? :D

FoxyKaye

Jul 9, 2004, 02:41 PM

BTW, did you ever try changing the jumper settings to overclock your G3 desktop (hey, except for the processor, it's even more overhauled than mine!)

Thought about it - however, I've added a lot of stuff to the system through the years. Earlier this year I started noticing little hardware glitches that were causing freezes (different from the 10.2.8 freeze/blank screen issue on Beige G3s) and added an additional fan thinking it might be cooling problems (I also grabbed a bunch of old PC 486/586 processor heat sinks and affixed them with thermal glue to my hard drives - believe it or not, this helped keep them cooler when they were running a lot). Honestly, overclocking doesn't sit too well with me, mainly b/c I don't like pushing the hardware in that manner. I guess it's just a preference, since I know a lot of overclockers who run systems just fine.

mkjellman

Jul 9, 2004, 05:04 PM

bousozoku

Jul 9, 2004, 05:05 PM

As far as waiting for a newer OS is concerned, what is that all about? I have noticed definite improvements with some of the double-dot releases, and no losses with the others. Besides, why wait upwards of 12 months for a dot release when you could benefit from the improvements between now and then that Apple makes available for free?

I'm always excited when Apple puts out an update. I'm not saying that Apple is infallible, but their updates are a heck of a lot better an alternative to Microsoft's incessant "fixes".

Free is in the eyes of the beholder. It seems to be included in the $129, which is also fine with me. We get a lot for the money.

I'll definitely be looking forward to incremental improvements in OpenGL and networking in this next update. It's always nice to see Apple making older machines even more worthwhile.

peteMG

Jul 9, 2004, 06:32 PM

I guess that's why I'm writing my own terminal. One that doesn't take 65% of the cpu when you do a while true ; echo hi ; done
Or just use xterm.. sure, it's not pleasant to customize, and no cool transparency stuff, and you have to deal with wacky X11 middle-click-copy-paste-or-some-unknown-operation mousing, but no matter .. It's been worked on by hordes of developers for centuries, so it's scary-fast! I use it whenever i want something to scroll by at seizure-inducing speeds.

AppleMatt

Jul 9, 2004, 08:18 PM

As a developer I have downloaded and installed. I have been doing all the betas since the second panther beta. I have to say that this is the most stable beta release I have installed in about a year. I can honestly say that this should be a very good GM release. BTW there are no network issues that I can reproduce. I am on a PowerBook G4 AlBook with 1 GB of RAM. Safari was not updated and is at v146 still.

Apple released it to very select developers ages ago, so it's already undergone loads of testing. Good to hear though, because it means it will probably only get a couple more build revisions before it's released.

I uninstalled the Safari 1.3 preview because it introduced new CSS rendering issues (despite claiming it fixed some!), but 10.3.4 contains Safari v125.7

AppleMatt

ChronoIMG

Jul 9, 2004, 09:23 PM

I'm just interested in new OpenGL drivers as the current ones could be better. As for Safari, which seems to be a popular topic, I switched to Firefox and haven't looked back.

darkwing

Jul 10, 2004, 03:11 AM

Or just use xterm.. sure, it's not pleasant to customize, and no cool transparency stuff, and you have to deal with wacky X11 middle-click-copy-paste-or-some-unknown-operation mousing, but no matter .. It's been worked on by hordes of developers for centuries, so it's scary-fast! I use it whenever i want something to scroll by at seizure-inducing speeds.

I tried xterm, and it is worse on my Mac. While xterm is only using around 10%, Xquartz is using 25% and WindowServ is using like 20%. All in all bash is around 15%. It's better with Apple's terminal.

It's bad on my 2.4 ghz p4 linux box, too. xterm uses like 22% and X uses another 20%. When you are compiling something big, say a linux kernel, the CPU should be compiling not scrolling crap. At least they fixed that in their scripts with 2.6.x, unless you do make V=1.

I think I have an idea for a terminal that can beat this problem, so I am going to try it.

Regards,
Steve

AppleMatt

Jul 10, 2004, 08:13 AM

I'm just interested in new OpenGL drivers as the current ones could be better. As for Safari, which seems to be a popular topic, I switched to Firefox and haven't looked back.

I agree, with OpenGL being such a core technology in Mac OS X I'm surprised they haven't done very much with boosting performance over time.

To be fair, every point upgrade that I can remember has boosted performance a little and fixed a few bugs but its still not what I expected and want.

The nVidia drivers are really what get me though, they desperately need improving.

AppleMatt

avkills

Jul 10, 2004, 09:50 AM

I wonder if the update is going to include CoreImage and CoreVideo since the new app Motion most certainly uses that technology. That would be cool.

-mark

CubaTBird

Jul 10, 2004, 11:27 AM

How long before we get to dl this update? How long was the time span between the 10.3.4 update being "seeded" and its actual release to the public? :confused:

wdlove

Jul 10, 2004, 11:33 AM

As a developer I have downloaded and installed. I have been doing all the betas since the second panther beta. I have to say that this is the most stable beta release I have installed in about a year. I can honestly say that this should be a very good GM release. BTW there are no network issues that I can reproduce. I am on a PowerBook G4 AlBook with 1 GB of RAM. Safari was not updated and is at v146 still.

This is definitely very encouraging news. Apple is really showing it's strength with X. I suppose that 10.3.5 will be released publicly about the same time a the shipping of the 2.5. All will be the sooner the better.

AppleMatt

Jul 10, 2004, 11:46 AM

How long before we get to dl this update? How long was the time span between the 10.3.4 update being "seeded" and its actual release to the public? :confused:

It's hard to say, because this build was "privately seeded" a while ago before all the ADC developers got it.

Also, typically the 10.x.5 releases are the biggest/feature rich in OS X updates, so may take longer.

Someone earlier posted how long it took from ADC seeding to 10.3.4 release.

AppleMatt

sockeatingdryer

Jul 10, 2004, 12:24 PM

It's hard to say, because this build was "privately seeded" a while ago before all the ADC developers got it.

Also, typically the 10.x.5 releases are the biggest/feature rich in OS X updates, so may take longer.

Someone earlier posted how long it took from ADC seeding to 10.3.4 release.

AppleMatt

Yes, I seem to remember that from Jaguar updates. When I got 10.2.5, alot of stuff was changed... even some GUI things. (BTW, is this just my imagination, or were the stoplight-buttons sunk in by 10.2.8? Particularly in the Brushed Metal apps?

shawnce

Jul 11, 2004, 07:18 AM

As its stated that "Networking" will be updated, I wonder if this includes the new version of Rendezvous. It's no longer limited to one sub-net. It broadcasts and receives across DNS. So essentially global. Would be nice to see it this forthcoming update or a before Tiger one. The newer Rendezvous will be in Tiger native.

What changes are you talking about? (If Tiger related then it is likely under NDA, if so please don't say)

Rendezvous uses what is called multicast DNS (mDNS). This is sending DNS like queries out using multicast. Such packets only can span as far as switches and routers allow them to propagate, usually just a give enet segment.

Rendezvous was designed to piggy back on DNS, allowing existing DNS servers to be used as source for service resolving. They added mDNS to allow for ad hoc discovery in absence of a DNS server with service information.

To go global one needs to contact a server and do a lookup. You cannot send broadcast or multicast packets out globaly.

If changes are coming it implies that some DNS servers will be allowing folks to push information about their services / existence to them... this sounds like a feasible feature of having a .Mac account.

outerspaceapple

Jul 11, 2004, 12:55 PM

Zaty

Jul 11, 2004, 01:19 PM

Hey all,

Well as far as safari 1.3 goes, I can see no performance increases/decreases, and in 10.3.4, it doesn't seem to recognize RSS feeds with that cool little button steve showed us. Basically, it looks/feels the same as 1.2.x.

Peace,
~~Eddy~~

I guess RSS won't be included in any Safari version for Panther. Apple needs to save a few features for Tiger so that as many people as possible will update to Tiger.

outerspaceapple

Jul 11, 2004, 02:18 PM

I guess RSS won't be included in any Safari version for Panther. Apple needs to save a few features for Tiger so that as many people as possible will update to Tiger.

Yeah, that sounds like Apple to me. Anyway, on the same note, the Tiger preview includes an even newer version of safari, 2.0. The strange thing is that the only visible new feature in safari 2.0 (from 1.2) is a new menu option called "Private Browsing" (where none of your google searches, history, page pop-down history, etc is saved after you close that safari window). it doesn't include any of the new 1.3 features (from 1.2, found in the 1.3 preferences) including RSS feed recognition.

If I were to sum it all up, it looks like the safari release for 10.3.x is going to be ALOT different than the 10.4 release, but both safari releases are still in their infancies.

wdlove

Jul 11, 2004, 02:52 PM

Yeah, that sounds like Apple to me. Anyway, on the same note, the Tiger preview includes an even newer version of safari, 2.0. The strange thing is that the only visible new feature in safari 2.0 (from 1.2) is a new menu option called "Private Browsing" (where none of your google searches, history, page pop-down history, etc is saved after you close that safari window). it doesn't include any of the new 1.3 features (from 1.2, found in the 1.3 preferences) including RSS feed recognition.

If I were to sum it all up, it looks like the safari release for 10.3.x is going to be ALOT different than the 10.4 release, but both safari releases are still in their infancies.

So when will we see Safari coming to maturation? Are you saying that you have the option of no history, another way to refresh Safari?

Earl Urly

Jul 12, 2004, 09:36 AM

Yeah, that sounds like Apple to me. Anyway, on the same note, the Tiger preview includes an even newer version of safari, 2.0. The strange thing is that the only visible new feature in safari 2.0 (from 1.2) is a new menu option called "Private Browsing" (where none of your google searches, history, page pop-down history, etc is saved after you close that safari window). it doesn't include any of the new 1.3 features (from 1.2, found in the 1.3 preferences) including RSS feed recognition.

What about:

Under File menu

* Mail Contents of This Page
* Mail Link to This Page

Under View menu

* RSS Search

Mail Contents of This Page sends pretty much the whole page, with multi-frame GIFs and all (although they're not animated in Mail 2.0)

outerspaceapple

Jul 12, 2004, 09:41 AM

So when will we see Safari coming to maturation? Are you saying that you have the option of no history, another way to refresh Safari?

Probably around the time that tiger is officially released. Here is a screenshot of the exact message you get when you select the menu item "private browsing..." under the menu "safari."

Peace
~~outerspaceapple~~

outerspaceapple

Jul 12, 2004, 09:45 AM

Ok, now this is just getting weird. I had this strange feeling that the developer version numbers on safari 1.3 and 2.0 were the same. As it turns out, BOTH versions are considered v146!

Here's a screenie 2 prove it.. its really weird.

johnnyjibbs

Jul 12, 2004, 09:46 AM

I wonder if the update is going to include CoreImage and CoreVideo since the new app Motion most certainly uses that technology. That would be cool.
That certainly would be cool, but I can't see Apple releasing those two in a minor Panther update for free when they could get us to pay for it in Tiger. CoreImage and CoreVideo are two fundamental new features of Tiger.

The only thing broke on my system is burning in iDVD 4.0.1 but I doubt 10.3.5 will fix that...