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arn
Jul 17, 2002, 11:42 PM
Googolplex let us know that David Hyatt has been hired by Apple. According to Googolplex:

David Hyatt has been hired by Apple. David is the creator of Chimera and many parts of Mozilla. He was an employee at Netscape/AOL until Apple offered him a job. To read more about this read his weblogs at http://mozillazine.org/weblogs/hyatt.

rivard
Jul 18, 2002, 12:05 AM
Though the name iBrowser (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=B79654DF.9871%25rivard%40access.mountain.net) , I found out some time ago, is copyrighted by someone else, could Apple be adding such an application?

It would only make sense in the wake of Microsoft holding their developers over Apple's head. Already rumors––ahem, rumors––have it that Appleworks might be getting spiffed up with AppleworksOffice and AppleworksHome (MacOSRumors.com, had this rumor last week). Apple has already tried to ditch Outlook's necessity, and Rendezvous flies in the face of Microsoft's complex office networking.

billiam0878
Jul 18, 2002, 12:08 AM
Sounds like Apple is prepping for M$'s wrath... I hope we don't loose Office though, for as much as I like AppleWorks I need Office.

Bill

Beej
Jul 18, 2002, 12:09 AM
Hmmm... an Apple browser? That would be sensational!

Durandal7
Jul 18, 2002, 12:14 AM
This is promising. Perhaps an Apple branded browser in the future?

Kid Red
Jul 18, 2002, 12:37 AM
a browser is coming. Sorry OW:(

So long IE!!!

foniks2020
Jul 18, 2002, 12:43 AM
If Apple can make a full featured browser with the speed of Chimera I would be an instant convert....

Please Apple, keep tabbed browsing with load in background.. it completely changed the way I browse the internet (thanks Mozillla!!!!!). Sometimes I'll just cruise down a page and open every single link in a tab and go back later to see what they were... also Mozilla's 'close other tabs' is an amazing tool for browsing galleries of images, just click each tab in order and then close all tabs but the first one.

Also Chimera needs to have the bookmarks drawer open on either side of the browser.

Apple/David. Don't make it the non-skinnable brushed metal like the other iApps. I know it differentiates them on the desktop but it messes with my experience. I've been using the AlumiteX theme for months now and I almost grimace every time I open iTunes.

Integrate it with Mail, iChat, iCal, .Mac and Sherlock while you're at it.

The only thing that worries me is that this would push Apple into the 'Microsoft Zone' as far as monopolizing consumers software decisions. Just don't do anything stupid like breaking your OS for 3rd parties and hiding secret APIs from competitors of your iApps.

Just make better software and you'll be fine.

beatle888
Jul 18, 2002, 01:10 AM
remeber during the keynote when Jobs was showing off
the Sherlock 3 (WATSON)? He said .....something like.....
up till now youve had to use your browser in order to
look for information on the web......anyway something like that.
Well, I think this guy might be to help Apple leave the BROWSER
as we know it behind and make more OS integrated features, along
the lines of sherlock...just a thought.

sevag1
Jul 18, 2002, 01:23 AM
i see your point.. its a good idea, and i think it is the reason why they hired this guy :) ...

bretm
Jul 18, 2002, 01:53 AM
Has everybody forgotten eWorld? C'mon it was great! And apple had their own browser back then too. All gone by the end of 1996.

eWorld was really nothing more than AOL with Apple's own graphics and interface. But the content was the same. I believe the phone number here in Atlanta was the same as AOL.

j763
Jul 18, 2002, 06:55 AM
Apple's been quite anti-MS lately... With Steve's "off-hand" comment about WMP during the keynote and the whole .mac .NET thing... and now this........ well, I think the AppleWorks team might be doing something other than adding more clipart at this point :)

StuPid QPid
Jul 18, 2002, 06:56 AM
Remember CyberDog? Maybe Apple will try to revive the idea of an integrated browser within the OS/finder?

I'm not sure this would be a such a good idea though...look what happened to M$ when they tried the same thing...

Edit: just corrected the spelling :D

Cappy
Jul 18, 2002, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by bretm
Has everybody forgotten eWorld? C'mon it was great! And apple had their own browser back then too. All gone by the end of 1996.

eWorld was really nothing more than AOL with Apple's own graphics and interface. But the content was the same. I believe the phone number here in Atlanta was the same as AOL.

Actually a better comparison might be to bring up that Apple did have a browser that was getting halfway decent until the Opendoc technology was killed and that was Cyberdog. It started out rough...or should i say ruff? Bad joke. :) Anyways the idea behind Opendoc and Cyberdog was kinda cool but things just did not fit in with any particular business model or how the market was progressing at the time.

wwworry
Jul 18, 2002, 08:29 AM
why should third parties develop mac software if apple keeps beating them to it and giving it away for free?

SilvorX
Jul 18, 2002, 09:03 AM
By the way, if you came here from MacRumors, you have too much time on your hands. Read a book, see a movie, go outside and play. Surely you have better things to do with your time.
lol he said that on his blog

someone should get him signed up on MR i'dd say ;) lol

synergy
Jul 18, 2002, 09:15 AM
Their own browser would be nice. Would indeed annoy Mickeysoft.
Of course AOL might not be so happy either since they have Netscape.
To really stick it to them all make the browser Windows and Linux compatible and free too. Ha, that would stick in Microsofts craw.

As for Microsoft cancelling office for the Mac they would have a whole lot of trouble on their hands if they did. They use Apple as an argument of competition and a "look see we make our office program available for mac" argument. If they canned it because of competition Apple has grounds to sue them for anti-competitive behavior. Not only that, Bush junior can't seem to bolster economic confidence with his pro-business attitudes. Being pro-business is fine, but he has to go after the culprits who are scamming every dollar in sight and go after them with a vengence. But no, we sit in committees dawdling over what to do next. He may be a one termer like his dad. And the next incoming Democrat will have it on his/her mind to pound some sense into Microsoft making the argument that monopoly stifles the economy. Would not be hard to pitch to the unwashed voters.

Microsoft potentially getting into PC hardware also will change things quite a bit.

sparkleytone
Jul 18, 2002, 09:15 AM
maybe hes just a good programmer...just because he did development on a browser does not necessarily mean he was hired to do browser coding. wake up and smell the coffee. hyatt was and is a very good cocoa developer with a knack for the type of user experience apple tries to obtain.

Cappy
Jul 18, 2002, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by wwworry
why should third parties develop mac software if apple keeps beating them to it and giving it away for free?

I would tend to say that Apple has a vested interest in having a browser that works well for the user and with the majority of websites on the internet. That is a *huge* selling point to consumers for systems. If this is true that he has been hired on to do browser work, then I can say I feel more comfortable with things. Also consider that since Apple needs to insure that they have a decent browser that if they use mozilla/gecko/whatever, I'm not sure that they can charge for it due to the licensing. It really is a plus in this case for Apple to be involved like this. Just remember though that there is no guarantee that this is what he'll be working on. It's all speculation.

As for other software though as long as Apple doesn't do anything from keeping other developers from developing the same or similar products, you'll likely see 3rd party development continue. They may not like it but a little competition never hurt anyone.

mcrain
Jul 18, 2002, 09:48 AM
I remember being with a buddy of mine back between 94 and 97 at NCSA (or whatever it was) when they were innovating browser abilities. Netscape and NSCA were the two biggies, and both were so similar (netscape was started by some of the original NCSA guys) (Mosaic was free). He was one of the Mosaic developers, and friends with the Netscape guys, and despite the friendly competition things were cordial. Around that same time, MS decided to really get into making IE work, and you should have seen what they were willing to do to get mosaic and its developers.

Suffice it to say that it wasn't too long after that before IE became the main competition to Netscape...

Hopefully, Apple is doing something similar buy picking up Netscape talent. Maybe start with some of the talent, and perhaps eventually work with Netscape to develop a better browser. If there were an Apple/Netscape browser that worked well, and would work on any system, I'd dump IE in a heartbeat.

Sayer
Jul 18, 2002, 10:52 AM
This guy posts random bits of his otherwise boring/normal life to a public diary for all to read and respond to and he tells MacRumors.com link-followers to "get a life" heh. OOoookay.

99% of the planets population has absolutely no clue who this guy is, he is down on the Mac and yet gets all excited about working for Apple and asks people to provide serious consultation on getting a dog (and not a "genetic freak"). Its a DOG for crying out loud, it won't perform CPR on you if you keel over nor will it call 911 if someone is breaking into your home. At best it will bark all night and at worst pee/crap all over the place.

Why exactly must this be a open public expose for some guy that would otherwise be completely anonymous?

Why am I responding to a message board? Oh I give up...

serpicolugnut
Jul 18, 2002, 10:53 AM
While I'm no expert on this, from what I know, Hyatt is a newcomer to the Cocoa experience. From what I've read, he's a newcomer to Macs in general. His first experience with the Mac was when he decided to learn Cocoa for the intent of making a OS X native version of Mozilla.

Now, couple this with everything else we know:

1-IE sucks on OS X. Apple knows this. MS MBU knows this and has said so publicly (not in those words, though).
2- MS MBU doesn't see IE on the Mac as a huge priority now that the 5 year agreement is over and they derrive no income from it's development.
3-Apple has an "iApp" for just about every other application need (mail, mp3, video, photo) out there - but none for what most people use their Mac for - surfing the web.
4-Chimera is open source. Gecko is open source. From what I understand about this, Apple can do one of the following - a) Use Chimera so long as they make their contributions to it public and accessible, or b) Use the Gecko rending engine and create a new closed source front end on it So long as Apple doesn't modify the Gecko rending engine, the product could remain a closed source project, with Apple controlling it.

Everybody talks about what would happen if MS stopped making Office for the Mac, but the real fear at Apple is over what MS is doing to Apple with the sad state of IE for OS X.

atomwork
Jul 18, 2002, 02:37 PM
Also its kicking if apple would come out with its own browser its more work for developing a web site. I just hope that it will not be so weird and slow like Netscape is. I don't understand why they don't can make it faster. Since beyond 4.x the NE is slow like hell.

Cheers Macianer™

whfsdude
Jul 18, 2002, 03:58 PM
I got it, apple help has a really old SDK. It needs to be updated a lot along with the apple help system :P You have to index the guide in classic :( If apple wants to say that classic is dead they need to update the SDK!!! :D

cryptochrome
Jul 18, 2002, 05:48 PM
Actually this cyberdog-type browser talk is not out of the question. There's nothing to support it, but...

Cyberdog was just the most visible implication of Apple's homegrown component software system, OpenDoc. The idea behind OpenDoc was that instead of a monolithic application, you had one that relied on/was split into separate major components (or dynamic linked libraries). Thus saving space, coding, memory, and so forth, and making it easy for anyone to "program". It never took off, I suppose because it was antithetical to custom programming and laymen rarely need to do so.

But, component programming is the norm for unix. That's what the pipe is for. That's why they have things like the GTK library. And Cocoa (think Interface Builder) is almost componentized already. With a little work, it would not be impossible for Apple to make a relatively simple programming environment for amatuers, or an even more powerful one for professionals.

HTML Layout is one such task that is increasingly common. Apple already has one built in (for the help files), that's relatively simple. Integrating gecko might offer new possibilities.

Huked on Fonick
Jul 18, 2002, 06:40 PM
I have to admit, IE on OS X sucks major batts balls and Netscape isent much better. In fact Netscape sucks on both the PC and the Mac. I dont really see why microsuck or netscape wants to put much effort into it. IE for the PC well microsuck needs and browser for Windows but what do they have to gain for a brower for Mac? They send time and money developing this thing thats makes NO money for them i dont blame them for wanting to get out and netscape is part of AOL thats just there i think for name sake. How can they be anygood when they make NO money. If apple wants a good brower for there Macs they need to make it them selves. I think while there at it they should make a Peer-to-Peer app because Limewire just isent cutting it. Those are two areas that PC's are allot stronger in, Explorier and Peer-to-Peer apps.

Ibrowser and Ishare.... Just think... wow life would be wonderful, such a easy way to surf the internet and download music:)

-Pat

kainjow
Jul 18, 2002, 08:06 PM
Ahh, it's all coming together. I'm now 100% convinced that Apple is making an iBrowser and an iTablet computer :)

madamimadam
Jul 18, 2002, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by billiam0878
Sounds like Apple is prepping for M$'s wrath... I hope we don't loose Office though, for as much as I like AppleWorks I need Office.

Bill

No one NEEDS Office.... I am an Office user and, have to admit, LOVE it minus its speed under OS X but I really could not say I would be all that upset to move to Apple works and I would still be able to read all those Office docs.

PyroTurtle
Jul 19, 2002, 03:30 AM
i use appleworks full time now...except for entorage...as soon as the addy book gets synced with my palm (iSync baby!!!) and mail has the bulk mail option i'll be done with office....oh, and iCal

rivard
Jul 19, 2002, 05:30 AM
Many of you have pointed out why iBrowser (or, considering the borderline-corny Jobsianism that has overtaken application names, iBrow) is a good idea:

1. It combats Microsofts arguably sedated work on Intenet Explorer.

2. It could help to bring about a browser (multi-platform, some have suggested) that would follow standards and encourage openess, i.e Mozilla without the billion different modules.

3. Apple's just got what it takes.

But, the problem you face with any Apple browser is whether Apple should be doing it. I would assume that most of us generally agree that Apple has, is, and will move in right direction. And that Apple makes the best computers on planet Earth. But, that bias may lead us into a trap.

As we encourage Apple to do this and do that, we push it to monopolize our systems. While it is still easy to opt-out of apps like Mail, iTunes, and so on, we must ask ourselves, will it always be?

While the great "i" apps have wiggled their way into our Dock, can they be trusted? iTunes' development cost us SoundJam, what will these other applications cost us? If Apple keeps adding and adding to its lineup of first-party OS-integrated software, does it effectivly threaten its own stability as a computer (as opposed to a proprietary console), its versitility and viability?

We see that iPhoto is going to work like a glove with Abode's Photoshop Elements, but how will it work, especially farther down the road, with Lemke Soft's Graphic Converter, or even smaller applications. Maybe it won't. Perhaps Apple is thinking so big and Apple-oriented that they threaten their very base.

Microsoft has done this, monopolized aspects of its system, but still third-parties horde to it with tons of applications. But they do this not because Microsoft does things right with Windows as an OS, but because Microsoft is doing so well on store selves. The work of third-party MS developers seems to be in spite of the Windows software, not because of it.

Apple does not have the luxury of 92% of the world-wide computer users, so if Apple keeps rolling out these first-party, all-encompassing programs, what will happen? How will an iBrowser effect iCab, Opera, Omniweb, Mozilla, or even Netscape and IE? Instead of giving us a great piece of software, it might eliminate 10 other great pieces of software and leave us with nothing but a monoprogramistic Aqua version of Windows.

serpicolugnut
Jul 19, 2002, 07:37 AM
How will an iBrowser effect iCab, Opera, Omniweb, Mozilla, or even Netscape and IE?

iCab hasn't been in the running for years. It's browser is just so far behind, for Apple to consider the consequences of what will happen to it are irrelevent. Maybe the author should worry about what will happen to it - then it might finally resolve the problems it's had for over 2 years.

Opera and OmniWeb are a little different. They are both newer, and are actively being developed. Opera is hindered by it's free version, which is supported by ads. Nobody likes to have to see even more ads in their browser. It negates the whole speed advantage Opera claims to have.

OmniWeb is another story. It's a significant part of the OmniGroups revenue stream, and it's a pretty good browser. It's major area of deficiency is it's support of standards - CCS1&2, Java, and full support of HTML standards. It's interface is the best out there, and it offers some really great features. But if it can't render HTML as good as the other two (Gecko and IE), then I can't use it for everyday browsing.

Which brings us to Mozilla and Netscape. These are open source projects that will probably weather any political action on the part of Apple and an internal browser. More than likely, Apple will choose to use the Gecko rendering engine for whatever browser it creates. Apple might even have hired Hyatt just to work on Chimera full time, and keep adding to that project. It's sort of what they did with the FreeBSD guy they hired (can't remember his name right now). He works for Apple, but his job is to contribute to the FreeBSD codebase...

Really, it's about time Apple have a browser of their own. As long as it's fully standards compliant and fast, I don't care what the political ramifications are....

dongmin
Jul 19, 2002, 03:00 PM
I think we all agree on one thing: the browsing experience on the Mac could be better. So we can go one of two ways:

1. Apple produces its own browser that works seemlessly with the OS so that it's faster and more reliable.

2. Apple gets more aggressive in helping out browser developers like OmniGroup. Maybe Apple needs to pick one developer and partner with them to make a killer browser.

Hiring of Hyatt could be for either reason. He could be working on an Apple in-house browser team. Or he could just be paid to work on the opensource project, independent of Apple.

I haven't used Chimera yet since I still mostly rely on OS 9 (10.1 is slow on my iBook). But Mozilla is pretty darn good. It has some bugs and I can get flash to work with it, but overall it's beats IE or any other OS 9 browser for features, speed, reliability, and stability.

serpicolugnut
Jul 19, 2002, 06:08 PM
Dongmin -

If you haven't tried Navigator, boot in to OS X, goto chimera.mozdev.org, download the latest nightly build and prepare to be wowed. Yeah, it's no where near done, but the speed in which it renders pages is amazing, and since it uses Gecko, it's standards compliant.

As for names, here are my faves...

iNav
iBrowse (too cheeky?)
iSee
iWeb

Any of these would be fine with me... And I really hope that Chimera fully adopts the "Navigator" name.

TechLarry
Sep 18, 2002, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by billiam0878
Sounds like Apple is prepping for M$'s wrath... I hope we don't loose Office though, for as much as I like AppleWorks I need Office.

Bill

I prefer to think that Apple doesn't care about Microsoft's wrath :)

TL