Liquid cooling in future iMac?

[MacApple21]

I was contemplating about what Apple might come up with for the next iMac, when I remembered an old article about Apple seeking patent for a liquid cooling system for MacBooks

link:http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/02/apple-exploring-liquid-notebook-cooling-systems-for-cooler-laps/

I can't stop thinking about it, I know liquid cooling is mainly meant for overclockers and extremists alike, but to me it would make sense to design such system in order for Apple to be able to cool the iMac and MacBooks more effectively. Consequently enabling Apple to fit components with higher TDP (perhaps even desktop components :eek: )
Think about for a second - Think different :apple:

Advantages:
-More effective cooling
-Even quieter (the iMac is quiet I know)
-Apple could continue with their almost anorectic design ideals, allowing hotter components with higher TDP
I also think it would consume less power than fans do.

Disadvantages:
-A little more expensive
-possible "safety" issues (fluid might leak)

I don't know how big an advantage liquid cooling would be compared to air cooling. What are your thoughts about this?

[Hellhammer]

It would be cool but if you take a look at other big manufacturers like Dell and Acer, you see that they don't sell liquid cooling either. So I can't see Apple selling computer with one. It's quite risky and expensive, think about the cost if there's a small hole in pipe and liquid streams to components... Also, is it possible and recommended to put liquid cooling in so narrowly packed computer?

[sk8mash]

Also, you would have to top up the liquid cooling every so often. It's not exactly consumer friendly...

[Mintin8]

It would be cool but if you take a look at other big manufacturers like Dell and Acer, you see that they don't sell liquid cooling either. So I can't see Apple selling computer with one. It's quite risky and expensive, think about the cost if there's a small hole in pipe and liquid streams to components... Also, is it possible and recommended to put liquid cooling in so narrowly packed computer?

It would cause quite a bit of damage but the liquid used would probably be non-conductive, so that is not a risk.

[bartelby]

I doubt we'll see another liquid cooled Apple computer for a while. Not after the G5 effort.

[OllyW]

Read this (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/G5_coolant_leaks.html) and tell me you still want liquid cooling in the iMac. :eek:

http://files.macbidouille.com/news/200708/043.jpg

[thegoldenmackid]

I doubt we'll see another liquid cooled Apple computer for a while. Not after the G5 effort.

This is the main reason against it. They already did it on the Power Mac once, and now they don't...

[sushi]

Don't see it.

Too many risks as already discussed and shown above.

I doubt the ROI would be worth it for Apple.

[alphaod]

Maybe Apple can use oil cooling; that way they can seal the computer up, so the only way to upgrade is to go back to the store where they charge an exorbitant price for labor.

[MTI]

Although it would fit into Apple's game plan . . . a more expensive device that's less reliable or prone to failure right after Apple Care expires . . . :D

[mrsir2009]

I think there should be a different model of the Mac Pro with liquid cooling so you can have it if you want

[Hellhammer]

I think there should be a different model of the Mac Pro with liquid cooling so you can have it if you want

Why? Mac Pro runs cool with normal cooling. Unless Apple starts to sell overclocked components in Mac Pro, liquid cooling would be waste

[MacApple21]

Read this (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/G5_coolant_leaks.html) and tell me you still want liquid cooling in the iMac. :eek:

http://files.macbidouille.com/news/200708/043.jpg

We certainly wouldn't want that kind of malfunctions, but I have a couple of "Overclocker" friends, they have liquid cooled systems, and have had them for years without any problems.
So my question is, why couldn't it be done, is liquid cooling universally troublesome, or has somebody cracked the code.
Come on it has to be possible :confused:

[Hellhammer]

We certainly wouldn't want that kind of malfunctions, but I have a couple of "Overclocker" friends, they have liquid cooled systems, and have had them for years without any problems.
So my question is, why couldn't it be done, is liquid cooling universally troublesome, or has somebody cracked the code.
Come on it has to be possible :confused:

We didn't say it's impossible, but it's risky and not consumer friendly and fights against Apple's policy. Also, it's would need so much testing and designing so basically it wouldn't be worth it plus average consumer has no idea what is liquid cooling

[MacApple21]

We didn't say it's impossible, but it's risky and not consumer friendly and fights against Apple's policy. Also, it's would need so much testing and designing so basically it wouldn't be worth it plus average consumer has no idea what is liquid cooling

I see your point, but who knows? Apple have certainly thought about it in MacBooks, considering their patent.

We'll just have to wait and see ;)

[TommyCo]

The new trend in consumer electronics at the moment is to make everything more efficient, therefore use less power and consequently run cooler.

This also allows things to run faster yet remain smaller and slimmer, as an elaborate cooling system would take up a lot of internal space in something as compact as an imac.

Thats without even going into the risks of liquid cooled systems. :eek:

[mrsir2009]

Why? Mac Pro runs cool with normal cooling. Unless Apple starts to sell overclocked components in Mac Pro, liquid cooling would be waste

For people who overclock their Mac Pros lol...?

[ditzy]

I just had a sense of impending doom reading this. Just think about it logically water and electric. This is a marriage made in hell. This idea doesn't excite me, it scares me.

[Gav2k]

Also, you would have to top up the liquid cooling every so often. It's not exactly consumer friendly...
Untrue a sealed water loop does not require topping up.
It would cause quite a bit of damage but the liquid used would probably be non-conductive, so that is not a risk.
because of overclockers like myself there are now many fluids you can purchase like fluid-xp that are safe if a leak does happen but a well built system does not leak. Things have moved on some what.
Maybe Apple can use oil cooling; that way they can seal the computer up, so the only way to upgrade is to go back to the store where they charge an exorbitant price for labor.
oil cooling isn't effective at all. Putting the heat in isn't an issue getting it out is the issue. Water or as close to water as you can have like fluid-xp as I've mentioned is the most effective heat transfer medium.

Let's put it this way I have a water cooled system running in an octo setup with sli gpu setup that is watercooled with a triple thermochill rad that is near silent. Offen it's quieter than my mini.

Apple could put a liquid cooling system in the problem is the big boys in the watercooling world that make generic cooling solutions that apple would go for are noisy and inneffective.

Gav

[OllyW]

because of overclockers like myself there are now many fluids you can purchase like fluid-xp that are safe if a leak does happen but a well built system does not leak. Things have moved on some what.

The thing that made the leaking on the Power Mac G5 even worse was the power supply was positioned at the bottom of the case, directly below the processors. In hindsight, it wasn't one of Apple's most sensible layouts. :rolleyes:

[300D]

Oil submersion.

http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u58308/aquariumpc.jpg

[MacApple21]

Untrue a sealed water loop does not require topping up.

because of overclockers like myself there are now many fluids you can purchase like fluid-xp that are safe if a leak does happen but a well built system does not leak. Things have moved on some what.
.....

Apple could put a liquid cooling system in the problem is the big boys in the watercooling world that make generic cooling solutions that apple would go for are noisy and inneffective.
Gav
Exactly my thoughts. Why would a well built system leak, it can be made properly.
We can still hope that Apple would invent their own system - and make it properly!

[Hellhammer]

Exactly my thoughts. Why would a well built system leak, it can be made properly.
We can still hope that Apple would invent their own system - and make it properly!

Well build = lots of designing = high quality parts = high price

When Apple makes thousands of iMacs everyday, there are always defective ones...

[OllyW]

Well build = lots of designing = high quality parts = high price

When Apple makes thousands of iMacs everyday, there are always defective ones...

And with the layout of the iMac even a slight leak will cause big problems.

[Hellhammer]

And with the layout of the iMac even a slight leak will cause big problems.

Yea, that's true. Basically it would always mean a logic board replacement so in long run it would be very expensive for Apple

[TommyCo]

Exactly my thoughts. Why would a well built system leak, it can be made properly.
We can still hope that Apple would invent their own system - and make it properly!

Ummm... Just in case you missed it last time:

The new trend in consumer electronics at the moment is to make everything more efficient, therefore use less power and consequently run cooler.

This also allows things to run faster yet remain smaller and slimmer, as an elaborate cooling system would take up a lot of internal space in something as compact as an imac.

A huge amount of R&D resources have been put into more efficient (hence cooler running) processors in recent years. Not only does that mean that the cpus use less energy they run cooler, allowing computer companies to make things SMALLER AND THINNER, improve battery run-time in their portables and also push the 'green' angle.

Liquid cooling systems can use up a lot of power (negating the 'green' marketing angle) and since the new chips run cooler, they aren't really needed anyway. They also take up valuable space within a line of products which are becoming increasingly slimmer and miniaturised. Considering apples previous (failed) attempts at a liquid cooled tower, I'd be surprised to see them rushing back to the concept.

So where exactly does your chunkier, less green, less reliable imac fit into Apple's current marketing strategy? :rolleyes:

[superatombomb]

Ummm... Just in case you missed it last time:



A huge amount of R&D resources have been put into more efficient (hence cooler running) processors in recent years. Not only does that mean that the cpus use less energy they run cooler, allowing computer companies to make things SMALLER AND THINNER, improve battery run-time in their portables and also push the 'green' angle.

Liquid cooling systems can use up a lot of power (negating the 'green' marketing angle) and since the new chips run cooler, they aren't really needed anyway. They also take up valuable space within a line of products which are becoming increasingly slimmer and miniaturised. Considering apples previous (failed) attempts at a liquid cooled tower, I'd be surprised to see them rushing back to the concept.

So where exactly does your chunkier, less green, less reliable imac fit into Apple's current marketing strategy? :rolleyes:

Exactly my thoughts. There's a reason liquid cooling is only used in large, gaming PC's.

[MacApple21]

Ummm... Just in case you missed it last time:

A huge amount of R&D resources have been put into more efficient (hence cooler running) processors in recent years. Not only does that mean that the cpus use less energy they run cooler, allowing computer companies to make things SMALLER AND THINNER, improve battery run-time in their portables and also push the 'green' angle.

Liquid cooling systems can use up a lot of power (negating the 'green' marketing angle) and since the new chips run cooler, they aren't really needed anyway. They also take up valuable space within a line of products which are becoming increasingly slimmer and miniaturised. Considering apples previous (failed) attempts at a liquid cooled tower, I'd be surprised to see them rushing back to the concept.

So where exactly does your chunkier, less green, less reliable imac fit into Apple's current marketing strategy? :rolleyes:

I haven't claimed that Apple would use a conventional system. As my first post describes, Apple has filed a patent on meant for laptops
So I don't think it would necessarily take up that much space.
Even though components keep getting cooler, they are apparently still to hot for some systems like the iMac. And if Apple should choose to make the next iMac thinner, then even cooler components would be needed.
Anyway I think all the arguments against are reasonable and well founded.
And it was just a thought, but who knows :confused:

[TommyCo]

I haven't claimed that Apple would use a conventional system. As my first post describes, Apple has filed a patent on meant for laptops
So I don't think it would necessarily take up that much space.
Even though components keep getting cooler, they are apparently still to hot for some systems like the iMac. And if Apple should choose to make the next iMac thinner, then even cooler components would be needed.
Anyway I think all the arguments against are reasonable and well founded.
And it was just a thought, but who knows :confused:

Generally the pump and the radiator reservoir make the majority of the bulk in a liquid cooled system. Maybe there is the technology to reliably do the same thing in less space - but for the reasons I've outlined earlier in this thread, I really can't see it happening.

Its also worth mentioning that every tech company under the sun files patents for anything and everything their R&D department comes up with, in order to have control of the intellectual property, regardless of if they ever plan to use the idea. Since patent office documents are viewable to the general public, I sometimes think some of the ideas patented by Apple are simply a means to throw industry speculators off the trail.

But you are totally right. You never know - these things could feasibly happen. Every opinion on here is purely speculation until Apple announce a new way of doing things!