Microsoft Attempting to Lure Away Apple Retail Store Staff?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/22/microsoft-attempting-to-lure-away-apple-retail-store-staff/)

The Loop reports (http://www.loopinsight.com/2009/09/21/microsoft-pouching-apple-store-managers-and-sales-staff/) that Microsoft, which is preparing to open the first of its retail stores (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/29/microsoft-signs-leases-to-open-retail-stores-in-arizona-and-california/), has been contacting Apple retail store managers and attempting to lure them away with increased salaries to run its own stores.People that have spoken to The Loop on condition of anonymity confirm that Microsoft has contacted a number of Apple's retail store managers to work in their stores. In addition to "significant raises," the managers have also been offered moving expenses in some cases.Apple managers who have accepted Microsoft's offers have reportedly then been tasked with attempting to hire Apple retail store staff, similarly dangling increased compensation as an incentive for employees to make the switch.

Microsoft's retail store initiative has been designed to directly compete (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/15/microsoft-targeting-apple-stores-with-new-retail-store-concept/) with Apple retail stores, with the company looking to open its new stores in close proximity to Apple's existing stores. Microsoft has also hired (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/21/microsoft-recruits-former-apple-retail-store-exec-for-retail-initiative/) former Apple real estate executive George Blankenship as a consultant to assist with its retail store initiative.

The company's retail stores are not the only arena where the Microsoft has attempted to gain a running start by tapping into the Apple ecosystem. Microsoft has also been reported to have offered significant sums of money (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/14/microsoft-attempting-to-recruit-app-store-developers-for-zune-hd/) to certain iPhone developers in order to entice them to port their applications to the new Zune HD platform.

Article Link: Microsoft Attempting to Lure Away Apple Retail Store Staff? (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/22/microsoft-attempting-to-lure-away-apple-retail-store-staff/)

[SkippyThorson]

Unnecessary. :)

Whatever they do isn't going to help them. It works for Apple because Apple cares about the customers.

M$ just sees numbers. That isn't how retail works. For that fact, neither does "If you can't beat 'em, rip 'em off".

[thegoldenmackid]

Kidnappings are probably the best bet. It's funny especially because it's widely acknowledged that knowledge of Apple products is not the most important part of getting hired.

[petermcphee]

I guess you go where the quality is. Notice that there was no mention of hiring the Genius Bar staff. :p

[ksavorate]

I have nothing to say...



They should make an effort to find their own staff, not poach employees from Apple!

[Shasterball]

Microsoft! Will you be creative on your own please!!!

[Xavier]

If you can't beat them, steal from them. Microsoft has played this role for some time now (OS X for example)

[ziggyonice]

For the first time, all the Specialists, Geniuses, Creatives... they'll all have to ask themselves what working for Apple really means. Do they work because they are passionate and engaged to represent the philosophy, ideals, and products that Apple stands for? Or are they in it just for the paycheck?

For those who choose the latter, I say good riddance. It leaves those who are truly worthwhile, knowledgeable of Apple inside and out -- available to help customers and inspire switchers to the Mac, among other Apple technologies. Without the core of Apple's retail team (those who are engaged and dedicated to the brand), the influence that Apple would have in their stores would be minimal, at best. But they've done something that no other retail chain has done before: finding associates who share the same level of pride in products that customers are so eager to own.

If Microsoft is unable to acquire associates that possess the same passion as those who work for Apple, their attempt at retail will be a failure.

[Srai-W]

:rolleyes: First their ads, now this? Maybe they should get someone from Apple who can think of something other than what Apple does?!?!?!

[dwman]

Microsoft: Once again, incapable of original thought.

[ironman159]

You've got to @#$%^&* be kidding me with this news.

[LostPacket]

Wow, remember when Apple was the underdog?

[NewSc2]

For the first time, all the Specialists, Geniuses, Creatives... they'll all have to ask themselves what working for Apple really means. Do they work because they are passionate and engaged to represent the philosophy, ideals, and products that Apple stands for? Or are they in it just for the paycheck?

For those who choose the latter, I say good riddance. It leaves those who are truly worthwhile, knowledgeable of Apple inside and out -- available to help customers and inspire switchers to the Mac, among other Apple technologies. Without the core of Apple's retail team (those who are engaged and dedicated to the brand), the influence that Apple would have in their stores would be minimal, at best. But they've done something that no other retail chain has done before: finding associates who share the same level of pride in products that customers are so eager to own.

If Microsoft is unable to acquire associates that possess the same passion as those who work for Apple, their attempt at retail will be a failure.

Jeez, people need to get paid. If I worked at a Levi's store or something, and GAP was offering more, shouldn't I switch jobs? Isn't that how Apple's execs got lured away by Palm?

Being an Apple fan is nice and all, but it doesn't put food on the table.

[jav6454]

Poaching staff is same thing as stealing staff. Apple can have them sign NDAs before they leave as a precaution to protect Apple trade secrets and as a warning to MS.

This move means Microsoft is really desperate.

[ziggyonice]

If I worked at a Levi's store or something, and GAP was offering more, shouldn't I switch jobs? . . . Being an Apple fan is nice and all, but it doesn't put food on the table.

But how many people work at Levi's because they WANT to work there? How passionate are they in selling Levi's products? How much do they care about the company as a brand, a philosophy? It's that type of passion that Apple looks for in their retail staff. If an Apple employee doesn't have it, they'll take the job at Microsoft.

[Aldyn]

I guess I'm most confused about what exactly would get sold in a Microsoft store?

-XBOX's/games
-XP/Vista
-Crappy routers
-???

[lord patton]

Does Microsoft understand that they are a very different company from Apple?

Microsoft has incredible customer support. Really. It's just that their customers aren't *you*, the computer user. Their customers are IT departments, OEM PC manufacturers, and business technology consultants.

If MS has determined that they need to directly support the end user, great. But it's going to take a lot more than a store front with displays and peripherals.

When my MBP had a faulty optical drive and battery, the Apple Store swapped them out in minutes. Will the MS store be authorized to conduct repairs on any PC the customer brings in? Will they have staff trained to teach 3rd party apps?

Once you get past the superficial presentation, there's not a lot of similarity—either in function or product—between Apple Stores and MS. Are they really just going to copy, and are they really stupid enough to think it would work?

[RazHyena]

:confused:

This is news?

[jav6454]

I guess I'm most confused about what exactly would get sold in a Microsoft store?

-XBOX's/games
-XP/Vista
-Crappy routers
-???

The Excuse Bar, Office, basically a Best Buy with MS crap.

[081440]

Like most everyone has said, if the employee takes it then they're really not that committed to Apple... This almost seems to be helping Apple through filtering out those who love apple for apple and those who love apple for the paycheck. I have no hard feelings against those who are in it for the paycheck, it's just two different mindsets of why the employee comes to work each morning.

I can't wait to see how this plays out.... :cool:

[Jake381]

The microsoft reaction to everything seems to be to throw money at the situation. They just can't make anything simple it seems.
Just look at their website! So much detailed information can be accessed on the front page.

[harmonica01]

haha, I can see the wait list already...

(( the next available appointment for tech support is in 19 days ))

some customer comes in "why does the laptop in the apple shaped store run windows faster than this dell?"

the list goes on...

[Rodimus Prime]

hmm it clear many people here are not clear how things work out there. What Microsoft is doing is a common practice amoung companies in any bussiness. They try to steal talent from other companies. Apple does it.

It is getting easier for companies to do this today because many companies treat there employees like a numbers and show Zero loyalty to them so why should the employee show any loyalty to the company.

[powers74]

The Excuse Bar...

That's the funniest thing I've heard all week!

[Consultant]

FAIL because most people work there because they like Apple.

[charlituna]

I guess you go where the quality is. Notice that there was no mention of hiring the Genius Bar staff. :p

then they would be hiring the staff that knows the most about the other sides product. or at least how to fix them. doesn't do Microsoft much good

clearly they are trying to get folks that have Apple's service processes so ingrained that they will use them out of habit. although I really doubt that the processes etc are that different than any other retail chain

this kind of thing is why I believe the Apple staff when they claim they are told nothiung about new product releases, dates, specs etc. poaching staff or getting hired iinto a store is too easy a way to spy.

[digitaljawa]

Name of the first employee Microsoft hired from an Apple store: Benedict Arnold

[LagunaSol]

Monkey (Ballmer) see, monkey (Ballmer) do.

Seriously, the Apple Store clones are bad enough, but Microsoft can't even scrape up enough originality to come up with their own retail employees. It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

What a bunch of posers.

[shadowfax]

I'll jump ship when they start paying Apple customers obscene amounts (read: 6 figures, Bill. Don't get cheap on us now!) to switch. Man, this is an awesome business strategy! It's like you can't lose! Hey, call the Federal Reserve and tell them we just had the most awesomest idea ever!

[robsaskibum]

That's just pathetic

[charlituna]

i hate to use the word pathetic but I do find it curious that Microsoft seems so threatened by Apple. I mean Windows doesn't seem to really be losing marketshare. not at a frightening rate. so what's the worry.

i mean until Apple cuts the prices of their machines down to half the current, they aren't really going to sell that many. whereas Windows based machines are still going strong.

[LagunaSol]

I'll jump ship when they start paying Apple customers obscene amounts

Paying people to use Bing, paying people to buy cheap Windows laptops, paying for Xbox exclusives, paying for iPhone developers to develop for Zune, and now paying for Apple's retail employees to cross over.

Microsoft just wants you to be its friend - and it's willing to pay you for it.

Epic corporate self-esteem problem up there in Redmond...

[ThundrChicken]

For the first time, all the Specialists, Geniuses, Creatives... they'll all have to ask themselves what working for Apple really means. Do they work because they are passionate and engaged to represent the philosophy, ideals, and products that Apple stands for? Or are they in it just for the paycheck?

For those who choose the latter, I say good riddance. It leaves those who are truly worthwhile, knowledgeable of Apple inside and out -- available to help customers and inspire switchers to the Mac, among other Apple technologies. Without the core of Apple's retail team (those who are engaged and dedicated to the brand), the influence that Apple would have in their stores would be minimal, at best. But they've done something that no other retail chain has done before: finding associates who share the same level of pride in products that customers are so eager to own.

If Microsoft is unable to acquire associates that possess the same passion as those who work for Apple, their attempt at retail will be a failure.

This. Well said.

In reality If Microsoft is able to poach the Apple Store employees purely based on increased salaries, the same tactic can be used to take them away by any company. Apple still wins in the end, as it will make only those truly passionate about Macs serve at the Apple Stores. I'm just surprised how low Microsoft is really getting these days. Just when you think they can't sink any lower.

[Number 41]

So, will these stores sell Windows-based PCs, or just Windows software?

Because really, I don't see how Microsoft can compete on price with places like Wal-Mart and Best Buy for bargain PCs (or why they'd want to sell bargain PCs when they're pushing their flagship new OS) or internet retailers on top-of-the-line PCs.

And, if they're just selling software, they're placing their salespeople in the oh-so fun role of trying to sell people Windows 7 and offer support after the sale when each person walks through the door with any number of PC setups.

Apple store works because it's an integrated hardware/software sales model. You want a Mac? They sell the complete package in laptop or desktop form. One company to buy from. Ditto if you want an iPod or an iPhone. Microsoft will have to either just sell you software (a "best of luck to you" when you take it home and install it yourself -- hopefully you meet minimum specs) or sell you someone else's computer to go with their software.

Now, once they get Xbox Natal off the ground and can start demoing that, it might be a store worth going into...

[AppleTecFan]

Dear god, I really want to punch Microsoft

[petermcphee]

Poaching staff is same thing as stealing staff. Apple can have them sign NDAs before they leave as a precaution to protect Apple trade secrets and as a warning to MS.


Depending on the state, NDAs generally (notice that I say "generally") would not be enforced by a court for retail staff. Since the Apple retail folks are merely in store to sell, which includes disseminating public knowledge about the product, it would likely be difficult for Apple to demonstrate the kind of need usually necessary to justify the enforcement of an NDA.

A lot of courts hate NDAs and look for excuses to not enforce them. To write one that will be enforced usually requires demonstration of a compelling need. I think even Apple's in-house counsel would find that protecting the retail staff is somewhat less than compelling.

But what do I know? I've been wrong before. Hell, even a few times today.:D

[simsandwhich]

OK... so Microsoft are opening their own line of retail stores? They plan on selling their own products in them? They plan on hiring existing educated employees rather than train new ones?

Oh yes, they must be copying Apple. Think about it. They're being purely economical here. People work for money, not for the label - And if they do then Apple has done their marketing very well and this shouldn't bother anyone at all.

[the vj]

They may make more salary but damn.... they will be have to work with PCs!!!! thy will regreat it!

Imaging an store full of people with computer with viruses, bugs, incompatibility issues and so on.

That is a mad house, working in a retail store like that is like fighting the get the best room in the Titanic.

For example: My mother had her 12" powerbook stolen a few weeks ago. My brother gave her a laptop, 2 weeks later the laptop is in service alredy because of a virus and has to remain there for 3 weeks. That is what you get in the PC world.

[TennisandMusic]

Some of you are taking this way too seriously. We are talking about a retail store here. What does this mean? In general, not very bright employees. This is hardly a question of ethics, or "loyalty" to a brand. I have about 3 or 4 Apple stores around me, and the employees definitely know less about their products than the people on this forum. They don't REALLY care. They just think it's a "cool" place to work, and all you really need to be hired is to look "edgy."

NDA's? Are you serious? They don't know anything anyway. I've found products in stores employees had never heard of. I've had employees tell me they just wanted to work because it was "cool" and they didn't care at ALL about Apple. I've had employees not know about the iPod back to school promotions.

Hiring away managers? Sure, could be a decent move from MS if they do it. It's just a freakin job, I'd actually think someone would be stranger to stick with Apple for less money out of "principle," as if the companies are really that different at the core. Whose approval are these people supposed to be seeking anyway? So, it's a noble profession to work for beans, as long as it's in retail at an Apple store? Some of you guys need to get a little real here. I really like working on my OSX machines, but it's just a way to get your work done. It's not a way of life.

[Macminiintel]

O.M.G a m8 of mine is the manager of an Apple store, its in the UK, like, but I'll call him if they ever decide to invade europe with there BSOD Stores.

I would never, ever want to work for Microsoft, stress levels would be too high and most of the employee's with the billions of angry PC users squashed into the store it would causes chaos.

If he ever got phoned by them he would probably say ******** You Micro$oft, because he despises them, Although I hate them ultimately, after there lack of support for me, I don't use anything to do with them anymore & proud of it.

I think its a disgrace that they are even allowed to do this. When I'm 18 I hope I can work at the Apple store, would love it.


I thought in England anyway, there was a law that prevented shops on the same street/area to lure away competition from its competitors.

Microsoft are trying to ruin Apple. They know deep down Apple is the much superior company. Sure Microsoft have all that money, but they only got it for being greedy, thoughtless & copying ideas.

I also think its hilarious as one of Apple's get a Mac captain ads, predicted this quite well.

Mac Says "What are your plans for 2008"

PC Says "I'm just going to copy everything [Mac] did in 2007.

LOL

[RazHyena]

This is so deliciously evil it's almost a win.



Stewie Griffin HAS to be behind this one...

[bboucher790]

For the first time, all the Specialists, Geniuses, Creatives... they'll all have to ask themselves what working for Apple really means. Do they work because they are passionate and engaged to represent the philosophy, ideals, and products that Apple stands for? Or are they in it just for the paycheck?


Ideals? Philosophy? Apple makes electronics. Apple's marketing team is doing a great job apparently.

Apple exists for one reason: to make money off of you. Apple is about as corporate as it gets. This isn't 1985....

[inkling23]

I'd follow the money too, but I'd still go spend my paycheck at the Apple Store. And go home to my Apple products. It's just a job, people.

[run-kmc]

So, to sum up:

Those employees that wish to go should go. They do not have a warrior's heart.

Those that stay are holy and blameless. When the inner six planets are all aligned and when the Blue Star Kachina makes its appearance in the heavens, the Fifth World will emerge, only then will true Apple employees take their rightful place.



At least, those are my notes so far.

[IBradMac]

Microsoft! Will you be creative on your own please!!!

You just reminded me of a SJ YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzKj-1HaKw).

:D

[Mr. Gates]

Why doesn't Microsoft do what they always do : Hire India :rolleyes:

[itsmenyc]

Jeez, people need to get paid. If I worked at a Levi's store or something, and GAP was offering more, shouldn't I switch jobs? Isn't that how Apple's execs got lured away by Palm?

Being an Apple fan is nice and all, but it doesn't put food on the table.

Being laid off from the Microsoft Store when it closes won't put food on the table either!:D

[AppleTecFan]

Being laid off from the Microsoft Store when it closes won't put food on the table either!:D

Lol nice

[Macminiintel]

I'd follow the money too, but I'd still go spend my paycheck at the Apple Store. And go home to my Apple products. It's just a job, people.

Actually Microsoft would probably prevent you using competitors products and you'd have to use a god awful zune & a god awful plastic PC from Dell, with God awful windows on it. :D

[DMann]

If you can't beat them, steal from them. Microsoft has played this role for some time now (OS X for example)Actually, since Windows 3.1

Does Microsoft understand that they are a very different company from Apple?

Microsoft has incredible customer support. Really. It's just that their customers aren't *you*, the computer user. Their customers are IT departments, OEM PC manufacturers, and business technology consultants.

If MS has determined that they need to directly support the end user, great. But it's going to take a lot more than a store front with displays and peripherals.

When my MBP had a faulty optical drive and battery, the Apple Store swapped them out in minutes. Will the MS store be authorized to conduct repairs on any PC the customer brings in? Will they have staff trained to teach 3rd party apps?

Once you get past the superficial presentation, there's not a lot of similarity—either in function or product—between Apple Stores and MS. Are they really just going to copy, and are they really stupid enough to think it would work?Short answer - yes, they actually are.

The Excuse Bar, Office, basically a Best Buy with MS crap.Ah, The Excuse Bar - you will be greeted by a 'Guru' who'll attempt to evade your questions, suggest some obscure and overly complicated fixes, and ultimately inform you that it is indeed a problem with the hardware, not the software. I hear they'll even be hosting birthday parties in the Microsoft Stores. Perhaps, their new logo will emerge as an Apple, with a bite taken out on the other side.

haha, I can see the wait list already...
(( the next available appointment for tech support is in 19 days ))By that time, since already having been inadvertently guided into the proximity of a nearby Apple Store, MS customers will wander in, try out a Mac, and never look back.

Monkey (Ballmer) see, monkey (Ballmer) do.

Seriously, the Apple Store clones are bad enough, but Microsoft can't even scrape up enough originality to come up with their own retail employees. It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

What a bunch of posers.Only problem with Ballmer:

Monkey (Ballmer) see, monkey (Ballmer) no can do.

[electroshock]

If Apple's truly deviously smart, they'll promote some idiot through the retail ranks then hype the heck out of them informally through backroom channels to float the lure before Microsoft. Then let Microsoft persuade the said idiot to join their staff... :D

All kidding aside, not sure I see what the big deal is. It's just business as usual and what smart companies with money do: try to leverage their presence by hiring talent with a proven track record from competitors.

Why do people leave a job? Money, lack of a sex life (at some places due to the work hours and days), boredom, issues with colleagues or management, lack of promotion or responsibilities, spouse wants to relocate, new family and needing time with them, substance abuse, fraud or theft, and 101 other things that could compel someone to leave. So what? Let whomever leave... leave, and let those who's still at Apple in continuing the tradition of success.

[spillproof]

I smell desperation. But, this move is not a half-bad idea.

[001]

Some people innovate, others imitate.

[DMann]

I smell desperation. But, this move is not a half-bad idea.Yep, neither were Microsoft BOB, Windows ME, Windows Play For Sure, Windows Live Care, Windows Defender, Microsoft Passport, or Windows Movie Maker. All have been less than half-good, more than half-bad, and thoroughly half-baked.

[HLdan]

Wow, Microsoft steals everything from Apple, even their employees. FAIL. Now where's the "vote negative" button. :p

[psingh01]

Retail is retail. I'd switch too if they offered me double my salary. Why not?

[the vj]

The PC guy dressed just likie the Mac guy and repeating all what the Mac guy says.

[bug67]

First off, competition is a good thing. :rolleyes:

However, this really is laughable. What, besides the Zune and boxes of software is Microsoft going to sell at these stores?

For all the Apple retailers who are jumping ship for higher salaries, this is going to be a MAJOR fail and you are going to be unemployed when this idea tanks. :cool:

[.Andy]

Microsoft could easily accomplish this with a trail of tight skinny black jeans and some hair styling products.

[Sun Baked]

If it is anything like the other retail places penetrating a market using trained staff.

They offer them a higher starting salary, and they basically end up training their cheaper replacement ... as they are screwed on raises in the future and worked like dogs only to see the cheap hires get raises and promoted beyond them.

[rhett7660]

Like this doesn't ever happen in the retail industry? Come on, Target>Wal-Mart>Best Buy etc etc etc.... This happens all the time. No different. I don't see why this should be page one news either. Nothing new here really.

[iMaggot]

LMAO this is epic :D

[simsandwhich]

Some of you guys on here are so mis informed. You describe a Microsoft that hasn't existed for at least a decade. Ever actually TRIED windows 7? Have even tried Vista? I've never gotten a virus. EVER. I don't have an anti virus.

It's a retail store. That's not unique to apple. They will have employees who aim to help customers. Once again, not unique to apple.

Some of you guys need to get things into perspective. The world does not revolve around Apple. If it revolves around anything, it's Windows, purely based on market share.

[Lastof]

I don't really see an issue with Microsoft offering the Managers a job, with a better paycheck to entice them. I would imagine that it's fairly standard practice, and if they are aiming at building a successful chain of stores selling hi-tech gadgets, who better to target than people who have run Apple Stores, which clearly aim for that image.

I do think the "Apple managers who have accepted Microsoft's offers have reportedly then been tasked with attempting to hire Apple retail store staff, similarly dangling increased compensation as an incentive for employees to make the switch." bit seems out of line though. Head Hunting the managers is fine, but then asking/telling them to try to recruit some of their former employees doesn't seem right to me. If they felt they worked with someone well, and offered them jobs unprompted, that would be fine, but if they are being asked to do so, it just seems unethical.

[cheesymogul]

LOFL!
That's about as smart and effective as for the church hiring atheists as priests!!!

[DMann]

It's a retail store. That's not unique to apple. They will have employees who aim to help customers. Once again, not unique to apple.Neither is silicon - it's all about implementation.

Apple Store Locations - we'll follow in Apple's Footsteps
Apple Store's open layout - we'll copy that as well
Genius Bar - Guru Bar
Apple workshops and events - we'll attempt to model them
iPod - Zune
The App Store - Zune Marketpla∈
Dock - Taskbar
Quick Look - Aero Peek
Finder - Windows Explorer
Widgets - Gadgets
Apple Employees -- go get'em while you still can

[4D4M]

Some of you guys need to get things into perspective. The world does not revolve around Apple. If it revolves around anything, it's Windows, purely based on market share.

No, you need to get things into perspective. This is a site for Mac enthusiasts. The world does revolve around Apple on this little part of the internet. If you don't like it, go to a Windows site.

[djellison]

For that fact, neither does "If you can't beat 'em, rip 'em off".

That's how Apple works.

[emulator]

Like this doesn't ever happen in the retail industry? Come on, Target>Wal-Mart>Best Buy etc etc etc.... This happens all the time. No different. I don't see why this should be page one news either. Nothing new here really.
exactly. this topic is most likely for we can count the idiots posting "OMG, MS rips off Apple again".

Actually MS are copying/following the industry standards here.

Widgets - Gadgets
you know that widgets were stolen from konfabulator, right?

[ortuno2k]

Wow, this is plain low! Incredibly low...
Can't MS have a brain of their own anymore?
:mad:

[alabanco]

Apple's response could be just as easy as 123. All they need is to call anti-monopoly committee and provide facts of the Microsoft's blackmail or smth. That's it.

[BongoBanger]

Some of you guys on here are so mis informed. You describe a Microsoft that hasn't existed for at least a decade. Ever actually TRIED windows 7? Have even tried Vista? I've never gotten a virus. EVER. I don't have an anti virus.

People find it difficult to challenge their preconceptions.

This move by MS is no different to any recruiting drive. Why would you train people up form scratch when there are people with the skills available already?

[mgauss]

It makes Microsoft look like a thief, a bully, uninspired
It is illegal to go after a company's workforce like that
It shows desperation, manipulation
It is an attempted rape of another organization

and also...

Microsoft is the free virus prone software all get for free when they get a PC that nobody wants but has to be used, so what is the point of a store for it?

[throttlemeister]

OMG, Microsoft 'stealing' employees from Apple! BOO-HOO!

Welcome to the real world, where companies try to get each others good employees each and every day.

[GSV]

These Microsoft stores are going to have huge payroll costs. Apple Stores already pay their sales people really good for retail, and I imagine the managers' compensation is above the market average as well, and MS is going to pay them even more? However, I doubt they're going to need many employees, at least nowhere near an Apple Store with 5+ managers and 50 specialist on call.

At least being an Apple store manager you have job security. Who knows how long Microsoft will stick with this retail experiment?

[MorphingDragon]

Monkey (Ballmer) see, monkey (Ballmer) do.

Seriously, the Apple Store clones are bad enough, but Microsoft can't even scrape up enough originality to come up with their own retail employees. It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

What a bunch of posers.

http://whybenormal.today.com/files/2009/03/fat-people-meme.jpg

Microsoft in a nut shell.

[michaeljordan]

Honestly, this is very complimentary to Apple indeed. But is it necessary? Apple sells because of it's products and how it's consumer-centric. If MS really want to hurt Apple, hire Steve Jobs, Jonny Ive and Phil Schiller!

[ziggyonice]

Ideals? Philosophy? Apple makes electronics. Apple's marketing team is doing a great job apparently.

Apple exists for one reason: to make money off of you. Apple is about as corporate as it gets. This isn't 1985....

I didn't say that Apple's goal wasn't to make money. But what I did say was that the people that work for Apple Retail work there for one of a few reasons:

(1) They are passionate about Apple as a brand, and what it stands for.
(2) They work for Apple just to acquire a paycheck.
(3) A combination of both.

I like to believe that the majority of Apple's employees go for No. (3). It's true that some of the employees there only work at Apple for the paycheck -- those are usually the associates involved when you hear about the rare, bad experiences at the Apple Store. And more than likely, if anyone was to leave Apple for Microsoft, it'd be these people.

But those who are so passionate about Apple, that even their lives are affected to the point that they'd always stand up for it, it's those people that Microsoft wants. And simply put, they won't get them -- because these people care about Apple more so than perhaps anything else.

[neutrino23]

The PC guy dressed just likie the Mac guy and repeating all what the Mac guy says.

That's pretty good. I could see Hodgman repeating everything until Mac says without crashing and viruses then making a sour face and walking off.

To the people who move I wish the well. These are not well paying jobs and if they can get a little more salary God bless them.

It really does show that Steve was right when he said that MS has no taste. This is not a slur, just a description. They don't know what to do so they copy Apple. Imagine that, billions of dollars in the bank, money is no object, and they can't think of anything original to do. How sad. What fun is that?

It does support another comment further upstream. MS is not a retail firm. Their main customers are corporations and IT departments. This whole retail thing is not their core business, perhaps that is why they are bungling it. Balmer and his pals got pissed off about Apple's visibility so they decided to blow a billion or so on this venture and have some fun harassing Apple.

[big_malk]

If it were me, I might take the bigger paycheque then casually say to every customer I help things like...

hmm, I never saw a problem like this when I worked with Macs, hang on while I work it out...

I'd recommend the MacBoo.... ehh I mean this Dell...

Or the like the Volkswagen advert in the UK 'this cars just like a Golf'

And Windows 7 can do this, just like a Macs have for years...

Probably get sacked after a while though, maybe Apple would take me back for showing loyalty :p

[simsandwhich]

No, you need to get things into perspective. This is a site for Mac enthusiasts. The world does revolve around Apple on this little part of the internet. If you don't like it, go to a Windows site.

I was talking about the world in general, like for instance, the REAL world, where all this happens to be taking place.

[DMann]

you know that widgets were stolen from konfabulator, right?Which were actually stolen from Apple's Desk Accessories 28 years ago.

Main Differences:

Konfabulator - self-contained JavaScript runtime engine, based on SpiderMonkey (the open source JavaScript engine from the Mozilla Project) Konfabulator UI layouts are specified in a custom XML format: Konfabulator = (Custom XML format) + (Custom JavaScript engine)

Dashboard - based on WebCore. Dashboard widgets are specified using HTML and CSS, using the same rendering engine as Safari - they are little floating Web Kit views, with a much smaller memory footprint. Dashboard is an extension of Mac OS X system-level technologies: Web Kit for layout and scripting; Exposé for the Dashboard window layer; and Cocoa for advanced functionality. Konfabulator isn’t a product, it’s a platform, and does nothing other than provide an environment and API for widgets. It was a closed platform, without an IDE, and wouldn't have been able to be integrated into the system as Dachboard was. They may look similar, but they do entirely different things.


Microsoft in a nut shell.
http://whybenormal.today.com/files/2009/03/fat-people-meme.jpg
"Developers, developers, developers, developers..."

[Jodlesx]

FAIL because most people work there because they like Apple.


FAIL because most people work there because it's a job with a salary.

[simsandwhich]

In all honesty I don't know why people bitch about the two companies. Windows and OSX aren't even in competition with each other. Apple & Microsoft don't really give a crap about their customers. They, like all for profit companies, just want money, not your blessing.

[ziggyonice]

FAIL because most people work there because it's a job with a salary.

I beg to differ. The kids who don't know anything about Apple work for the money. The people who are passionate about Apple work for their favorite fruit company -- and the salary is a nice benefit.

[jasonvaughan]

While they are at it, why don't Microsoft just poach Steve Jobs and Jonathan Ives? That way they could have a company with the design and innovation talents that they are so desperately lacking.

They have ripped off, copied and generally plagiarised the only decent parts of their software. So why not just go for the kill?

If Microsoft could actually do something original for once, people may have a little more respect for them.

[MorphingDragon]

Which were actually stolen from Apple's Desk Accessories 28 years ago.

Main Differences:

Konfabulator - self-contained JavaScript runtime engine, based on SpiderMonkey (the open source JavaScript engine from the Mozilla Project) Konfabulator UI layouts are specified in a custom XML format: Konfabulator = (Custom XML format) + (Custom JavaScript engine)

Dashboard - based on WebCore. Dashboard widgets are specified using HTML and CSS, using the same rendering engine as Safari - they are little floating Web Kit views, with a much smaller memory footprint. Dashboard is an extension of Mac OS X system-level technologies: Web Kit for layout and scripting; Exposé for the Dashboard window layer; and Cocoa for advanced functionality. Konfabulator isn’t a product, it’s a platform, and does nothing other than provide an environment and API for widgets. It was a closed platform, without an IDE, and wouldn't have been able to be integrated into the system as Dachboard was. They may look similar, but they do entirely different things.



http://whybenormal.today.com/files/2009/03/fat-people-meme.jpg
"Developers, developers, developers, developers..."

Dear God.

[NightFox]

In all honesty I don't know why people bitch about the two companies. Windows and OSX aren't even in competition with each other. Apple & Microsoft don't really give a crap about their customers. They, like all for profit companies, just want money, not your blessing.

I guess it's just that some people are insecure and need to feel part of Apple itself, they forget they just actually buy/use/like their products. Both companies are going to be around for a long time yet, whatever the other one does. Nothing's going to spoil the end-user experience so if people really want to do something Apple, then they should just chill.

[SimonMW]

I find it incredible that MS puts so much effort into competing with Apple. Apple only have, what 8% of the computer market? The only thing I think that MS will be trying to focus on is the Zune and X Box. Other than those two devices MS is a software manufacturer as others have said. So their store would have to be filled with other makes of computer.

Maybe they are getting Mac employees because they are going to sell Apple products with Boot Camp Windows!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgriTO8UHvs&NR=1

[MorphingDragon]

While they are at it, why don't Microsoft just poach Steve Jobs and Jonathan Ives? That way they could have a company with the design and innovation talents that they are so desperately lacking.

They have ripped off, copied and generally plagiarised the only decent parts of their software. So why not just go for the kill?

If Microsoft could actually do something original for once, people may have a little more respect for them.

Ripping off the person that ripped off you doesnt count?

(WIndows 7 steals from KDE 4 which stole from Windows) :rolleyes:

[akira2501]

If you can't beat 'em
cheat 'em
eat 'em

Awesome. It would be great if you are looking to becoming a manager for another store in a couple of years when MS abandons the idea, or you for being a turncoat.

[twilson]

Apple managers who have accepted Microsoft's offers have reportedly then been tasked with attempting to hire Apple retail store staff, similarly dangling increased compensation as an incentive for employees to make the switch.

Nearly all contracts of employment (especially management) open you being sued if you do this.

That is certainly the case in the UK.

[MadMacxxx]

I dont like MS either......but come on, you can't ignore that $150+ million that MS put into Apple in 1997, even if it was a strategic business move....

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/08/08/opinion/the-apple-of-microsoft-s-eye.html

[ziggyonice]

I dont like MS either......but come on, you can't ignore that $150+ million that MS put into Apple in 1997, even if it was a strategic business move....

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/08/08/opinion/the-apple-of-microsoft-s-eye.html

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Keep in mind that Apple also made some arrangements with Microsoft during that deal. It was a mutual agreement.

[4D4M]

I was talking about the world in general, like for instance, the REAL world, where all this happens to be taking place.

The REAL world... would that be the one where Microsoft actually thinks this retail store 'idea' of theirs is going to work?

[ss957916]

Why?? They're just shop staff. Low paid, low skilled shop staff with an hour or so of 'training' on Apple products.

Why can't MS find their own? With unemployment the way it is, there's loads of them out there.

[MadMacxxx]

Oh, and Apple's after MONEY too, they've just been better at marketing their products for the past 8-9 years (which is why so many of you feel so connected to the brand), though they're still far behind MS in terms of market share. And any logical/reasonable person would realize that it's in their best interest to take a higher paying job, excluding those...."loyalists." You wanna talk about companies that really take care of their employees....think Google, eBay, RedBull....

[4D4M]

I dont like MS either......but come on, you can't ignore that $150+ million that MS put into Apple in 1997, even if it was a strategic business move....

Bet they wish they hadn't done that now.

[AlexisV]

Moving seems a stupid thing to do. These MS stores won't be around in 3 years time.

[NightFox]

The REAL world... would that be the one where Microsoft actually thinks this retail store 'idea' of theirs is going to work?

Yeah, if only MS listened to people like us rather than their own highly experienced and qualified business analysts and consultants, they might be a successful company today rather than a two-bit software outfit that no-ones heard of. ;)

[MadMacxxx]

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Keep in mind that Apple also made some arrangements with Microsoft during that deal. It was a mutual agreement.

It doesn't matter that they helped save Apple from near collapse, even if they had profit to gain from the deal? Mutual or not, the point is that they were essentially bailed out by, yes, MS....

Now, no doubt trying to snatch employees is low....but then again, isn't this the mediocre/melancholy/unoriginal MS that we've always been used to?

[NightFox]

Moving seems a stupid thing to do. These MS stores won't be around in 3 years time.

I'm not sure that many Apple Store employees will still be in the same job in 3 years time though. Don't know about staff turnover numbers, but there always seems to be new faces in the stores I visit. These days I don't think people in retail jobs stay in the same job for much more than a couple of years do they?

[ziggyonice]

It doesn't matter that they helped save Apple from near collapse, even if they had profit to gain from the deal?

Not saying that it wasn't important, the original comment was simply not relevant to the conversation. It'd be like saying, "Apple has the iPod which is great, but now Microsoft has the Zune, which is terrible... except hey, you've got to give credit to MS for making that DEAL!"

It's just, like... what? :confused:

[BongoBanger]

Not saying that it wasn't important, the original comment was simply not relevant to the conversation. It'd be like saying, "Apple has the iPod which is great, but now Microsoft has the Zune, which is terrible... except hey, you've got to give credit to MS for making that DEAL!"

It's just, like... what? :confused:

Not a great analogy since the new Zune HD gets very positive reviews.

[NightFox]

Now, no doubt trying to snatch employees is low....but then again, isn't this the mediocre/melancholy/unoriginal MS that we've always been used to?

But as other have already said, this headhunting is common business practice!

If I was running a big business that was opening up retail outlets and I employed you to staff them for me, where are you going to go to get the experienced people I need? I'm afraid I'd be sacking you pretty soon if you hadn't approached the best people already out there.

[WeegieMac]

As people have already posted, the majority of people who work in the Apple stores across the world do so because they love Apple and have an affinity for the brand and the products.

In turn, this means that Microsoft would hold little interest to them since the reason they use Mac's is because they prefer the system to a Windows PC.

The only people who will seriously consider leaving to work for Microsoft would be people with some financial difficulties, but even then can you imagine moving from an Apple store, working with Mac's, iPhone's, iPod's, the Genius Bar, and working with PC's all made by different brands, Windows 7, and the customers complaining? PC owners, and I don't need statistics to back this up, complain more about their system freezing, crashing, locking up, or failing altogether than Mac owners.

So, in short ... good luck Microsoft. You'll need it.

[ziggyonice]

Not a great analogy since the new Zune HD gets very positive reviews.

I don't think you're getting the point. I give up.

[allmIne]

FAIL because most people work there because they like Apple.

I think most people started working there because they liked Apple. I'd wager many of them continue working there because they've got bills to pay.

I worked in an entirely different store (Game UK) that was also extremely fussy on 'metrics' (in my case, 13% of all sales had to be accessories, 50% of consoles had to have extended warranties sold with them, 66% of all game sales had to be pre-owned, and I had to have 4 pre-orders per shift).

Now, I'm not sure of Apples exact metrics, but it makes life pretty ****. It got to the point where I'd hide out back when people were looking at consoles, just to pad my percentages. I wasn't the only one, either.

I realise that's an entirely different store, but the point remains that metrics make shifts hell, and from what I've read, Apple can be similar at times.

[DMann]

It doesn't matter that they helped save Apple from near collapse, even if they had profit to gain from the deal? Mutual or not, the point is that they were essentially bailed out by, yes, MS....

Now, no doubt trying to snatch employees is low....but then again, isn't this the mediocre/melancholy/unoriginal MS that we've always been used to?Incidentally, this deal was made in order to settle litigation over GUI infringement. Apple, in turn, agreed to make Internet Explorer the default browser over Netscape, and Microsoft agreed to continue developing Office and other software for the Mac for the next 5 years, and purchase $150 million of non-voting Apple stock - they sold it after the 5 year period (bad move). It was in the best interest of MS to keep Apple in business as a competitor, so as to avoid being deemed a monopoly and broken up into smaller companies. One can debate over who bailed who out regarding this scenario.

I don't think you're getting the point. I give up.Ha ha ha.... we feel for ya.

[oTaRu]

Is there something wrong with the M$ management or HR level's mind??? What are they thinking? They are making their own reputations falling...

[andy721]

So typical of Microsoft. Who would want an employee discounted pile of garbage PC or a ZUNE HD in todays world?

I'd pass I rather chop my hand off then work for them.

[fishmoose]

Breaking News: Microsoft offers Steve Jobs cash and a Zune HD to join Microsoft as CEO!!

[ditzy]

They must realise that this makes them look desperate. Oh well it gave me a laugh.

[ss957916]

FAIL because most people work there because they like Apple.

What planet are you on?! I bet most of the people who work there couldn't give a stuff about Apple - it's a job. It pays (a little bit of) money. Or do you think they do it for the love of it and hand back their monthly pay cheque for Apple to reinvest in R&D?

I really wonder about all the Apple fan boys out there - they assume that everyone else in the world worships Steve Jobbs too.

[MadMacxxx]

Not saying that it wasn't important, the original comment was simply not relevant to the conversation. It'd be like saying, "Apple has the iPod which is great, but now Microsoft has the Zune, which is terrible... except hey, you've got to give credit to MS for making that DEAL!"

It's just, like... what? :confused:
yea, oh well...but I understand :D
I don't think you're getting the point. I give up.
No I got it ;)
Incidentally, this deal was made in order to settle litigation over GUI infringement. Apple, in turn, agreed to make Internet Explorer the default browser over Netscape, and Microsoft agreed to continue developing Office and other software for the Mac for the next 5 years, and purchase $150 million of non-voting Apple stock - they sold it after the 5 year period (bad move). It was in the best interest of MS to keep Apple in business as a competitor, so as to avoid being deemed a monopoly and broken up into smaller companies. One can debate over who bailed who out regarding this scenario.


http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x88/itsnemo101/offtopic.gif
Ok, so basically, Microsoft owed it to Apple since they ripped Apple's point and click command based GUI and marketed it more aggressively, which ultimately led to Apple'e decline in the first place...? So, legally MS was not allowed to do that? In that case, its not fair to say that it was Apple's fault for failing to market their own GUI as effectively as MS. Apple took MS to court? This was no bailout...this was court ordered compensation http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x88/itsnemo101/iono.gif

[MadMacxxx]

This type of luring happens all the time among executives...

[OutSpoken]

Some of you are taking this way too seriously. We are talking about a retail store here. What does this mean? In general, not very bright employees. This is hardly a question of ethics, or "loyalty" to a brand. I have about 3 or 4 Apple stores around me, and the employees definitely know less about their products than the people on this forum. They don't REALLY care. They just think it's a "cool" place to work, and all you really need to be hired is to look "edgy."

NDA's? Are you serious? They don't know anything anyway. I've found products in stores employees had never heard of. I've had employees tell me they just wanted to work because it was "cool" and they didn't care at ALL about Apple. I've had employees not know about the iPod back to school promotions.

Hiring away managers? Sure, could be a decent move from MS if they do it. It's just a freakin job, I'd actually think someone would be stranger to stick with Apple for less money out of "principle," as if the companies are really that different at the core. Whose approval are these people supposed to be seeking anyway? So, it's a noble profession to work for beans, as long as it's in retail at an Apple store? Some of you guys need to get a little real here. I really like working on my OSX machines, but it's just a way to get your work done. It's not a way of life.


I couldn't have said it better myself.

[celtikmind]

Some of you are taking this way too seriously. We are talking about a retail store here. What does this mean? In general, not very bright employees. This is hardly a question of ethics, or "loyalty" to a brand. I have about 3 or 4 Apple stores around me, and the employees definitely know less about their products than the people on this forum. They don't REALLY care. They just think it's a "cool" place to work, and all you really need to be hired is to look "edgy."

NDA's? Are you serious? They don't know anything anyway. I've found products in stores employees had never heard of. I've had employees tell me they just wanted to work because it was "cool" and they didn't care at ALL about Apple. I've had employees not know about the iPod back to school promotions.

Hiring away managers? Sure, could be a decent move from MS if they do it. It's just a freakin job, I'd actually think someone would be stranger to stick with Apple for less money out of "principle," as if the companies are really that different at the core. Whose approval are these people supposed to be seeking anyway? So, it's a noble profession to work for beans, as long as it's in retail at an Apple store? Some of you guys need to get a little real here. I really like working on my OSX machines, but it's just a way to get your work done. It's not a way of life.

One little refreshing drop in a vast sea of surreality...

Thank you for posting something worth reading and showing that at least someone on this board still have a connection to reality. Apple does not recruit on belief and worship alone, money is involved except in retail from what appears.

This thread really makes the dark ages look enlightened... One little accusation is thrown around and you all go off like a starving witch-mob? Why don't the rest of you fanboys some of the dignity you claim to have and admit that corporations are corporations and humans... humans!

[MatthewsTech]

*&%#, Microsoft! Get you own staff, freeloaders!
Apple, get on top of this!:mad:

[alabanco]

they copied iPod, Store. Now they are getting store's personnel.
They have just one thing left - start selling Macs.

[djellison]

*&%#, Microsoft! Get you own staff, freeloaders!
Apple, get on top of this!:mad:

What are you on?

They ARE getting their own staff. They happen to be head-hunting them from other IT retail outlets.

What's the problem.

[gnasher729]

Like most everyone has said, if the employee takes it then they're really not that committed to Apple... This almost seems to be helping Apple through filtering out those who love apple for apple and those who love apple for the paycheck.

People work wherever they work for several reasons: Because they need money (unfortunate if that is the only reason), because they enjoy the work they are doing (good for them), because they enjoy working with the people they work with (even better of them), maybe because they like being associated with the company or the products. If anyone works at Apple because they love Apple, I would consider that seriously weird.

I know one Apple Store nearby my home; it looks from the outside as if there is a really good working atmosphere, people seem very helpful, definitely not a place for the work shy (there are other shops nearby where you _can_ hide and not do much; not in the Apple Store). Seems like a good place to work; I'd think people there would think hard before they leave for some other place. But "love Apple"? Nonsense.

As people have already posted, the majority of people who work in the Apple stores across the world do so because they love Apple and have an affinity for the brand and the products.

Most people work there because Apple pays reasonably well for retail, and you don't have to wear a stupid uniform like in other stores :-)

[uaecasher]

shame on you Microsoft, I guess this will be the new Mac vs PC ad title :p

I mean doing this Microsoft has proven that they trust apple employees and customer service.

[gnasher729]

I worked in an entirely different store (Game UK) that was also extremely fussy on 'metrics' (in my case, 13% of all sales had to be accessories, 50% of consoles had to have extended warranties sold with them, 66% of all game sales had to be pre-owned, and I had to have 4 pre-orders per shift).

Now, I'm not sure of Apples exact metrics, but it makes life pretty ****. It got to the point where I'd hide out back when people were looking at consoles, just to pad my percentages. I wasn't the only one, either.

Do I understand that right: Because of the sales goal you had, if I entered your shop and bought the "wrong" item, then that extra sale could make you _miss_ your sales goals? So it was better for you to hide and not sell to me what I want? Like if I bought a console, and I really don't want the extended warranty, your boss would tell you off, but if you hide and I buy that same console in another store, you are fine?

[4D4M]

Yeah, if only MS listened to people like us rather than their own highly experienced and qualified business analysts and consultants, they might be a successful company today rather than a two-bit software outfit that no-ones heard of. ;)

Maybe they should open their eyes and look around a bit. After all, look what happened the last time they tried listening to their "highly experienced and qualified" staff... Vista!

[MH01]

For the first time, all the Specialists, Geniuses, Creatives... they'll all have to ask themselves what working for Apple really means. Do they work because they are passionate and engaged to represent the philosophy, ideals, and products that Apple stands for? Or are they in it just for the paycheck?

For those who choose the latter, I say good riddance. It leaves those who are truly worthwhile, knowledgeable of Apple inside and out -- available to help customers and inspire switchers to the Mac, among other Apple technologies. Without the core of Apple's retail team (those who are engaged and dedicated to the brand), the influence that Apple would have in their stores would be minimal, at best. But they've done something that no other retail chain has done before: finding associates who share the same level of pride in products that customers are so eager to own.

If Microsoft is unable to acquire associates that possess the same passion as those who work for Apple, their attempt at retail will be a failure.

Reading this, the first thing that jumps to mind is Disney. And Disney takes advantage of its workforce cause they are passionate and loyal and are prepared to work for less. If Apple is serious about these employees, match the M$ offer. I feel sorry for the poor chump that will work for 1/2 that of the m$ employee cause he loves the company. Apple is no different to m$ when it comes to making money.

And please guys wake up, Apple has been recruiting staff from competitors just like any other company.

I am surprised that everyone is shocked at this news. Do people really think that Businesses do not headhunt staff from each other???

Right now Apple is top dog in the retail store business. Competition is a good thing, by m$ pushing apple, we will get better Apple stores.

[allmIne]

Do I understand that right: Because of the sales goal you had, if I entered your shop and bought the "wrong" item, then that extra sale could make you _miss_ your sales goals? So it was better for you to hide and not sell to me what I want? Like if I bought a console, and I really don't want the extended warranty, your boss would tell you off, but if you hide and I buy that same console in another store, you are fine?

That's absolutely correct. And it wasn't so much a telling off I'd get, but a bollocking in front of other employees.

It's a god-awful company that I'll never, ever buy from again. And the illegality they practice regularly is shocking.

[griz]

What is the advantage of recruiting from Apple? There are surely qualified managers out there that do not work for Apple. This could lead one to speculate that they are looking for more than just the manager. They could be looking for inside information into how the Apple stores work.
I wonder if Apple managers sign a non-compete agreement. If not I'm guessing new hires will be.

[eRondeau]

1) Microsoft sells virtually everything they make at a loss just to "compete" so I'm sure this store will be no different.

2) The majority of Windows PC's are sold in bulk to corporations, versus Mac's which are mainly sold to families & individuals. Can't you just picture hundreds of millionaire C.E.O.'s & C.I.O.'s lining-up in front of the new M$Store at 5am to be the first to buy 10,000 copies of Windows 7? C'mon....

3) Corporations who buy Microsoft don't want to be cutting-edge. Just last year my employer finally upgraded his 200 PC's to the "new" Windows XP from Windows NT. Serious, in 2008 we jumped from a 1999 OS to a 2001 OS. He wanted something that was "proven". Is the new M$Store going to stock decade-old software for people like him? (Could you imagine running down to the Apple store next week to finally upgrade your iMac from Jaguar to Panther? But seriously, this is how PC People think!!!)

4) People like the Apple store because it's a "cool" place to visit. Microsoft will never, ever, ever be "cool". Microsoft is the anti-cool. Microsoft is the #1 reason why so many people are switching to Mac's.

5) Apple Stores: Consistently the highest profits per square foot of retail space.
M$ Stores: Consistently the highest returns per square foot of retail space.

[LukeHarrison]

Do I understand that right: Because of the sales goal you had, if I entered your shop and bought the "wrong" item, then that extra sale could make you _miss_ your sales goals? So it was better for you to hide and not sell to me what I want? Like if I bought a console, and I really don't want the extended warranty, your boss would tell you off, but if you hide and I buy that same console in another store, you are fine?

It was exactly the same in DSGi (Currys, Dixons, PC World et al). Actually pound notes aren't important, it's all about selling 'essentials' with the product. For me, being on computing, this was hell.
Norton 360 - 50%,
Whatever Happens (known to them as Whe-hey!) Extended Warrenties - 60% (very difficult to do with the cost),
Laptop cases - 30%,
Office 2007 - 40%
Mobile (3G) Broadband contracts - 35%

It got harder and harder all the time, if you were selling a PC and the customer didn't want any of these essentials, then it was the done thing to pass them on to somebody else or to put the sale on a managers till log on number.

It got so bad that on my last day, I was going to buy a netbook. Talking to one of the managers about it, he told me (without any irony) that I either bought Norton or went and bought it elsewhere.

[NightFox]

... They have just one thing left - start selling Macs.

http://store.apple.com/us/search?find=microsoft :cool:

[a cat *miaow*]

Hahaha, Apple store staff are terrible! Why would anyone want to employ them never mind actively poaching them!?

[pmjoe]

Glad to hear the job market is heating up a bit.

If Apple treats their employees well, they'll stay. If they don't, I don't care how cool the fanboys here think Apple's products are.

[a cat *miaow*]

4) People like the Apple store because it's a "cool" place to visit. Microsoft will never, ever, ever be "cool". Microsoft is the anti-cool. Microsoft is the #1 reason why so many people are switching to Mac's.

The MS store will be rammed - trust me. You might not like them but there are millions who associate computing directly with MS. And you know which store they'll go into?

And MS do have some pretty amazing technology in the pipeline which i'm sure they'll role out to their big stores – they have a much greater ability to create a massive buzz around events.

And as far as cool is concerned MS have the xbox which has gone a long long way to helping them out –*don't forget about their huge gaming audience

[Saladinos]

Wow, staggeringly unsporting of them.

Apple's decisions about where to open stores are made very carefully, and simply opening stores besides them without a second thought is simply ungraceful and desperate.

Calling up their staff and trying to get them to leave, and then trying to get them to make others leave? That's just so unsporting it's crazy. If people are not happy at Apple, they can look for places elsewhere and Microsoft can advertise. Actively soliciting this stuff is just plain wrong.

The reason Apple stores have done so well is that they have standards - locations are picked carefully, people are picked carefully, and the products are purposefully not password-locked. Everything's been chosen to give people the best experience. Microsoft are cheapening the idea of having standards by acting with absolutely no class.

[MH01]

What is the advantage of recruiting from Apple? There are surely qualified managers out there that do not work for Apple. This could lead one to speculate that they are looking for more than just the manager. They could be looking for inside information into how the Apple stores work.
I wonder if Apple managers sign a non-compete agreement. If not I'm guessing new hires will be.

I think you will find that the Apple store is unique, M$ is not after a retail manager, they are after managers who can sell a brand and actually pretend to care. M$ is trying to copy the fun/cool culture of the apple store, and not something like currys, dixons etc, that is why they are after these people.

[kdarling]

Most people have worked someplace, and been lured away to another. (Unless they're unskilled, of course.) At a higher level, Apple has recently hired away several ex-Motorola sales execs.

Microsoft seems to want better employees, than just hiring inexperienced people off the street.

What do Apple stores do? Do they just hire people who've never worked before, or do they try to hire skilled workers from other computer stores?

[newyorksole]

Reading this, the first thing that jumps to mind is Disney. And Disney takes advantage of its workforce cause they are passionate and loyal and are prepared to work for less. If Apple is serious about these employees, match the M$ offer. I feel sorry for the poor chump that will work for 1/2 that of the m$ employee cause he loves the company. Apple is no different to m$ when it comes to making money.

And please guys wake up, Apple has been recruiting staff from competitors just like any other company.

I am surprised that everyone is shocked at this news. Do people really think that Businesses do not headhunt staff from each other???

Right now Apple is top dog in the retail store business. Competition is a good thing, by m$ pushing apple, we will get better Apple stores.

Oh idk maybe this is big news because Apple and Microsoft are huge rivals and Apple has been the underdog for so long. Apple's rival is now trying to use some of Apple's methods of success.

[akbc]

Whatever.
If one loves working at the Apple store because they like Apple. They'll stay.

If one works at the Apple store because of the paycheck, then they'll go.
So what? It's not like those apple store floor people know ANYTHING about the product engineerings and/or programming codes or w/e stuff anyways.

And the Sales Rep training manuals and stuff is probably already obtained by MS anyways. (If they're trying this hard to rip Apple off)

So to be honest, I'm glad that they're doing this because this will filter out the true Apple enthusiastic sales rep from the opposite.

I can only (so far) see positive outcome from this. Nice.

It's win-win for both the workers going away (more money for them) and the end-users like us who will benefit from true Apple-loving employees.

[allmIne]

It was exactly the same in DSGi (Currys, Dixons, PC World et al). Actually pound notes aren't important, it's all about selling 'essentials' with the product. For me, being on computing, this was hell.
Norton 360 - 50%,
Whatever Happens (known to them as Whe-hey!) Extended Warrenties - 60% (very difficult to do with the cost),
Laptop cases - 30%,
Office 2007 - 40%
Mobile (3G) Broadband contracts - 35%

It got harder and harder all the time, if you were selling a PC and the customer didn't want any of these essentials, then it was the done thing to pass them on to somebody else or to put the sale on a managers till log on number.

It got so bad that on my last day, I was going to buy a netbook. Talking to one of the managers about it, he told me (without any irony) that I either bought Norton or went and bought it elsewhere.

I feel your pain. It's a terrible way to work.

Game routinely - every week - post a 'managers special' deal outside their stores. If you break it down, which few people do, the cost of the managers special is the cost of the constituent components all added up and bundled together as one. Any idea how hard that is to sell to customers who DO the maths, and realise what they're paying for? The deals always include an extended warranty, which is a legal grey area too.

Shocking.

[Stately]

Unnecessary. :)

Whatever they do isn't going to help them. It works for Apple because Apple cares about the customers.

M$ just sees numbers. That isn't how retail works. For that fact, neither does "If you can't beat 'em, rip 'em off".

You got it.

[MH01]

Wow, staggeringly unsporting of them.

Apple's decisions about where to open stores are made very carefully, and simply opening stores besides them without a second thought is simply ungraceful and desperate.

Calling up their staff and trying to get them to leave, and then trying to get them to make others leave? That's just so unsporting it's crazy. If people are not happy at Apple, they can look for places elsewhere and Microsoft can advertise. Actively soliciting this stuff is just plain wrong.

The reason Apple stores have done so well is that they have standards - locations are picked carefully, people are picked carefully, and the products are purposefully not password-locked. Everything's been chosen to give people the best experience. Microsoft are cheapening the idea of having standards by acting with absolutely no class.

Hate to break it to you but there is a very ugly competitive world out there where businesses compete against each other to win your $. Have you seen the Get a mac ads? Apple has been hitting below the belt for years and openly bad mouthing PCs, is that sporting? is that classy? Classy and sporting would be promoting Os x and macs without the need to trash another brand? Seen the latest keynote? interesting how Apple had a nice dig at Sony and Nintendo..... oww Apple is no angle mate, they are running a business, and they pull no punches.

[greenmeanie]

Hopefully they don't hire anyone from the RI store LOL.

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/22/microsoft-attempting-to-lure-away-apple-retail-store-staff/)

The Loop reports (http://www.loopinsight.com/2009/09/21/microsoft-pouching-apple-store-managers-and-sales-staff/) that Microsoft, which is preparing to open the first of its retail stores (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/29/microsoft-signs-leases-to-open-retail-stores-in-arizona-and-california/), has been contacting Apple retail store managers and attempting to lure them away with increased salaries to run its own stores.Apple managers who have accepted Microsoft's offers have reportedly then been tasked with attempting to hire Apple retail store staff, similarly dangling increased compensation as an incentive for employees to make the switch.

Microsoft's retail store initiative has been designed to directly compete (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/15/microsoft-targeting-apple-stores-with-new-retail-store-concept/) with Apple retail stores, with the company looking to open its new stores in close proximity to Apple's existing stores. Microsoft has also hired (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/21/microsoft-recruits-former-apple-retail-store-exec-for-retail-initiative/) former Apple real estate executive George Blankenship as a consultant to assist with its retail store initiative.

The company's retail stores are not the only arena where the Microsoft has attempted to gain a running start by tapping into the Apple ecosystem. Microsoft has also been reported to have offered significant sums of money (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/14/microsoft-attempting-to-recruit-app-store-developers-for-zune-hd/) to certain iPhone developers in order to entice them to port their applications to the new Zune HD platform.

Article Link: Microsoft Attempting to Lure Away Apple Retail Store Staff? (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/22/microsoft-attempting-to-lure-away-apple-retail-store-staff/)

[MH01]

Oh idk maybe this is big news because Apple and Microsoft are huge rivals and Apple has been the underdog for so long. Apple's rival is now trying to use some of Apple's methods of success.

Thats how the industry works, if you are loosing, make a better product. The evolution of the zune HD is proof of this.

Thing is that Apple and Microsoft compete in different segments.

[iOrlando]

I dont understand what the big deal is.

poaching sales clerks?

usually poaching is used to refer to stealing a top executive not a college-aged retail associate.

Also, most of the apple store workers....i cant see them wanting to work in a MSFT store, even if they got more pay.

[BongoBanger]

Maybe they should open their eyes and look around a bit. After all, look what happened the last time they tried listening to their "highly experienced and qualified" staff... Vista!

No, that would be when they listened to the suits in marketing. When they actually listened to their own field staff and the public they developed W7, the Jasper motherboard and the Zune HD.

You know, topics like this highlight the worst excesses of fandom. Does it honestly matter who works for who?

[MorphingDragon]

No, that would be when they listened to the suits in marketing. When they actually listened to their own field staff and the public they developed W7, the Jasper motherboard and the Zune HD.

You know, topics like this highlight the worst excesses of fandom. Does it honestly matter who works for who?

... YA!

/Sarcasm

[womble2k2]

I don't understand why MS is spending so much money to fight Apple. As they are offering increased salaries, their budget to take back market share from Apple must be quite sizable.

Apple still has a minority market share, but a fair percentage of Apple users install a retail version of Windows on their Boot Camp machines. So in terms of revenue, I don't think MS lose out that much to Apple.

It only requires about 1 in 4 Apple Mac users to install a retail copy of windows to generate more revenue than 4 PC sales with OEM bulk licenses.

Sheer madness, and puts even more distance between me and MS. So glad they've made numourous errors with Zune HD (no app store, no apple mac support, etc).

As I have said elsewhere, MS would gain more by investing these sums of money into fighting piracy in the asian region.

Phil

[lifeinhd]

I've never gotten a virus. EVER. I don't have an anti virus.

How can you know for certain you don't have a virus without antivirus software? ;)

[celtikmind]

Whatever.
If one loves working at the Apple store because they like Apple. They'll stay.

If one works at the Apple store because of the paycheck, then they'll go.
So what? It's not like those apple store floor people know ANYTHING about the product engineerings and/or programming codes or w/e stuff anyways.

And the Sales Rep training manuals and stuff is probably already obtained by MS anyways. (If they're trying this hard to rip Apple off)

So to be honest, I'm glad that they're doing this because this will filter out the true Apple enthusiastic sales rep from the opposite.

I can only (so far) see positive outcome from this. Nice.

It's win-win for both the workers going away (more money for them) and the end-users like us who will benefit from true Apple-loving employees.

And the true Apple-loving employee who stays get paid less as a thanks of being loyal and enthusiastic about it. How is this a win situation for them? Or that doesn't bother you because they 'get to work in a cool store'? They should be happy to be of the 'chosen ones'?

Please, think things through. :o

[twoodcc]

i don't see how this is legal. and microsoft keeps trying to act like apple is a nobody, but they sure want to be like them

[4D4M]

No, that would be when they listened to the suits in marketing. When they actually listened to their own field staff and the public they developed W7, the Jasper motherboard and the Zune HD.

Don't try to kid us that Windows 7 is going to rock our world, we've heard it all before with every new version of Windows, and it's still a crap OS.

And the Zune HD... what a joke.

[Chupa Chupa]

It's a wonder how Microsoft got as big as it did the way they've been floundering along the past decade or so. Everything they do is so "Me Tooish."

Now this latest news is just ubsurd. Does M$ really think the Apple Store managers and employees are the key to the stores success? Honestly, unless you ask the sales staff a basic question like "can I use Word on a Mac?" they have to go ask a "Genius." Does Microsoft think they are going to pick up clues from the ex-staffers? I'm guessing not because I'm sure they had to sign an NDA on specific behind-the-scenes ops. That NDA doesn't expire when the staffer leaves the company.

Personally I hate going to the Apple Store because it's always too damn crowded. But the reason it is is because Apple has products people think are cool and desirable. They are aspirational...things people hope to be able to have at some point even if they can't afford them now. I don't know of a single product M$ has that I desire.

The new Zune is a start, but no app content and poor desktop still keeps it from being buzzworthy. The XBOX 360 is a great game platform, but it's old hat now. What else does M$ have they can put in a retail store that is going to draw people in? That's the question they should be asking rather than thinking they can steal Apple employees for success. Apparently Microsoft doesn't realize that the low-level retail employees they steal away are easily replaceable... like apples on an apple tree.

[womble2k2]

MS should stick to what they do best, business machine OS's.

My manager understands that it takes 30 minutes to boot and become productive, and that I have to work at a slow pace as my PC just cannot keep up doing what I want because it's busy being a security guard to protect itself.

And every time my employer wants me to do more, they install software on my PC, which slows it down even more, so I have to work overtime to get work done.

And when windows crashes, I have time to have a relaxing coffee.

Thanks to MS, my work days are a breeze!

[*LTD*]

Shocker. :rolleyes:

[Fluffy Bunny]

Ha ha, it's funny how many people rate this as a negative. Is it because the free market is in action? Is it because that it really isn't true that every Apple employee loves their employer?

Of course working at the MS store will suck as much as working at an Apple store but at least they are getting paid more for it.

Apple can pay their people more or set up some sort of LT compensation plan vesting over time if it is such a big concern.

[Full of Win]

M$ just sees numbers. That isn't how retail works. For that fact, neither does "If you can't beat 'em, rip 'em off".

...and yet Microsoft has much more market share than Apple. Moreover, Apple did their share of 'ripping off' in the early days, and have been punished by having 25+ billion in the bank.

[kurosov]

And the true Apple-loving employee who stays get paid less as a thanks of being loyal and enthusiastic about it. How is this a win situation for them? Or that doesn't bother you because they 'get to work in a cool store'? They should be happy to be of the 'chosen ones'?

Please, think things through. :o

Because people tend to lead a more happy, stress-free life working at a job they enjoy for a company they like?

[Chupa Chupa]

Ha ha, it's funny how many people rate this as a negative. Is it because the free market is in action? Is it because that it really isn't true that every Apple employee loves their employer?

Of course working at the MS store will suck as much as working at an Apple store but at least they are getting paid more for it.

Apple can pay their people more or set up some sort of LT compensation plan vesting over time if it is such a big concern.

Can't speak for everyone else, but for me, it's because it's a move that gains Microsoft nothing other than to, maybe, agitate Apple. It's a lame Spy vs. Spy effort rather than a clever business pursuit.

[*LTD*]

...and yet Microsoft has much more market share than Apple.

You do know why ths is, right?

[RaZaK]

BSOD's all day long? and the computers that sell for less than the MacBooks are crappy. I wouldn't want to try and make a boutique store with refuse like that. :rolleyes:

i wish them luck. they will need it. Windows 7 will only save them so much.

[rdowns]

This has probably been said already but I just can't wade through all the anti MS crap here. What's the big deal here? Any retailer moving into an area always tried to hire away manager from their competitors. Nothing to see here.

[Chupa Chupa]

Moreover, Apple did their share of 'ripping off' in the early days, and have been punished by having 25+ billion in the bank.

The difference is Apple went after quality hires who could take Apple to the next level. Microsoft is going after low level staffers, some of the paid with wages, not salary. M$ is just trying to be too cute here unless upper management and their consultants are really so clueless they don't know how to set up a retail store and need college interns to show them the way.

[RaZaK]

i don't see how this is legal. and microsoft keeps trying to act like apple is a nobody, but they sure want to be like them

if a company knows that it has competitors in a specific market segment, they make employees sign a non-compete clause.

Since this is MS' first real attempt at a retail store, Apple may not have made the Apple Store employees sign non-compete agreements. As such, MS is free to headhunt all they want.

I'm sure that going forward, Apple will change hiring practices to legally prevent this.

[carmenodie]

Very clever of MS is will say.
But here is their strategy. MS is trying to give the impression that they are giving the pc crowd a MAC experience at crack whore prices. But this of course goes contrary to MS's business model which is to make sure that their so-called partners sell as many pcs every quarter as possible so they can get all that licensing money.Now here is where this crap will fall apart and get weird. If you go into one of those MS stores with a pc problem and they solve it. Where is the incentive of the 3rd party folks? They have a business model which is to sell computers and not spend time trying to fix some old Dell or HP.
Now them folks at Best Buy are probably scratching their heads right now cause they have a business plan and it ain't trying to keep people on the same computer. Those pc vendors have a business plan and that is to move new models!
But we Apple folks know that we can go into our Apple store and get our stuff fix. There is no conflict of interest.
Those MS stores will be DOA!

[convergent]

Maybe Apple is secretly sending these folks out the door as spies to work at Microsoft!

Seriously, Apple is known for having very, very, brand committed users. I'd think that the employees in their stores are even more committed to the Apple platform than the average user. This person is a committed Mac user and they now find themselves working in a Microsoft store. So they will have Apple zealots working in their Microsoft store. It would be like hiring the guy in the "hey, I'm a Mac" commercial to sell Windows. I can see a new Apple commercial coming from this.... the "hey, I'm a PC" guy talks the "hey, I'm a Mac" guy into helping him sell his PCs.... think of the humor! If he's just honest with what he knows to be true, he'll talk everyone that comes into the store into buying a Mac instead of a PC. What's he going to say when someone asked him which one is going to be easy to use, reliable, and be less prone to viruses? Umm... the Compaq one? I think not.

[RTee]

I laughed my @ss off at this... no respectable Apple anybody would go and work for M$ retail..

I'm continually amazed by MS, imagine what they'd be as a company if they had half a clue!

[polaris20]

But how many people work at Levi's because they WANT to work there? How passionate are they in selling Levi's products?

The same could be asked of Apple Store employees, at least in IL. Same goes for the "Geniuses" behind the counter.

Don't get me wrong, I love Apple stuff for the most part, but their Stores aren't a major selling point with me, having visited 3 different stores on multiple occasions.

[*LTD*]

Maybe Apple is secretly sending these folks out the door as spies to work at Microsoft!

Seriously, Apple is known for having very, very, brand committed users. I'd think that the employees in their stores are even more committed to the Apple platform than the average user. This person is a committed Mac user and they now find themselves working in a Microsoft store. So they will have Apple zealots working in their Microsoft store. It would be like hiring the guy in the "hey, I'm a Mac" commercial to sell Windows. I can see a new Apple commercial coming from this.... the "hey, I'm a PC" guy talks the "hey, I'm a Mac" guy into helping him sell his PCs.... think of the humor! If he's just honest with what he knows to be true, he'll talk everyone that comes into the store into buying a Mac instead of a PC. What's he going to say when someone asked him which one is going to be easy to use, reliable, and be less prone to viruses? Umm... the Compaq one? I think not.

When you lack taste, it's common to imitate someone else's.

MS seems to assume that by plugging Apple strategy into their licensing scheme, great things will happen. It's a shame though, that the two are mutually exclusive.

[Popeye206]

Face it, MS can't keep it up. Their cost per-square foot in the stores will be so inflated just from over-paid staff they'll fail!

Besides... like someone said earlier... what are they going to sell? They'll need 90% of the space just for the Genius Bar... I mean Smart Guy Desk! :D

[polaris20]

BSOD's all day long? and the computers that sell for less than the MacBooks are crappy. I wouldn't want to try and make a boutique store with refuse like that. :rolleyes:

i wish them luck. they will need it. Windows 7 will only save them so much.

You don't actually think Windows gets BSODs a lot these days, do you?

[polaris20]

Don't try to kid us that Windows 7 is going to rock our world, we've heard it all before with every new version of Windows, and it's still a crap OS.

And the Zune HD... what a joke.

Windows 7 isn't going to "rock our world" but it's definitely the best Windows OS ever; rock solid and fast. Have you used it to be forming an opinion?

And seeing as how you're in the UK, I doubt you've actually used the HD to be forming an opinion on that either.

[danielchow]

:rolleyes: First their ads, now this? Maybe they should get someone from Apple who can think of something other than what Apple does?!?!?!

:p actually, these maneuvers are some of the early stages of microsoft preparing itself to be taken over by apple. if microsoft can get more apple people over the transition will become less painful when apple buys microsoft. for the first time microsoft is thinking forward :D

All companies dump and hire people for less money. I'm convinced that this is a luxury for many big companies. For many people who are on the other end, the economy doesn't offer such luxury to stay with a lower paying job. If Apple feels that some of its retail staff are worth keeping, then they'll have to fork it out to compete in this employment arena as well. It's all about competition. No company advances or succeeds if it feels it has to make requests to its competitors.

[polaris20]

Face it, MS can't keep it up. Their cost per-square foot in the stores will be so inflated just from over-paid staff they'll fail!

Besides... like someone said earlier... what are they going to sell? They'll need 90% of the space just for the Genius Bar... I mean Smart Guy Desk! :D

Actually I think theirs is called the Guru Bar or something to that effect, which is pretty damn funny. They really need to be a bit more creative.

[Chimpy]

While it's lame, it makes perfect business sense. Not surprising at all.

[peterdevries]

if a company knows that it has competitors in a specific market segment, they make employees sign a non-compete clause.


Not for retail staff they don't.

It's simply too expensive and difficult to enforce this on retail staff level, so the employees can basically do whatever they like. And for the sake of them, I'm glad about that. They should be able to work wherever they want.

[automan98]

Sell outs! :) Shows that every Apple staff member doesn't bleed Apple blood.

[pismodude2]

This is pathetic. I'm going to go ahead and not stop in at my local mutant hybrid Wal◊Mart/Apple Store that Microsoft is going to end up creating.

[peterdevries]

I laughed my @ss off at this... no respectable Apple anybody would go and work for M$ retail..

I'm continually amazed by MS, imagine what they'd be as a company if they had half a clue!

I wouldn't if the wage would be roughly the same. But if MS is doing this, than a doubling of my paycheck would definitely convince me. That's what competition is all about.

I would personally be able to sell Microsoft stuff, while being an Apple fan at heart. Retail staff is not in the position to be too picky with the wages they earn. And it's not like Apple employees all get Mac Pro's, Time capsules and 64Gb Ipod Touches to take home to play with.

[ericinboston]

hmm it clear many people here are not clear how things work out there. What Microsoft is doing is a common practice amoung companies in any bussiness. They try to steal talent from other companies. Apple does it.

It is getting easier for companies to do this today because many companies treat there employees like a numbers and show Zero loyalty to them so why should the employee show any loyalty to the company.

Exactly...and these are RETAIL people folks...not employees making hard decisions in Corporate or developing Marketing campaigns or driving strategy.

They are Retail MANAGERS who hire people, manage shifts, count the money, and possibly help customers from time to time. They're not making $100k a year (I'm not picking on them). Likely they are making $35k (in the Northeast) if that....that is extremely cheap for a company like MS to "hire away". MS has 2 choices when hiring retail managers: 1)hire someone experienced in retail or 2)someone with 0 experience. Guess which option MS (or anyone) will choose? And...might as well try to steal some people from your competitor and/or a retail model you want to mimick...this also forces Apple to rehire/retrain.

I, too, am confused over what an MS Store will actually sell since MS really only makes software titles, an Xbox, and some keyboard/mice combos FOR CONSUMERS...there are plenty of other software packages and services that MS sells to BUSINESSES (unlike Apple) but I am not sure what the store will actually pitch. Maybe MS will team with Dell and HP and other HARDWARE VENDORS to sell some particular machines.

This kind of poaching happens all the time at retailers...and it's not just direct competitors. The "loyalty" that many of you talk about for Apple manager is nuts...retail Managers turnover all the time...maybe every 1-3 years. I can assure you that Apple, like all other Retailers, doesn't give a rat's *** about retail employees.

-Eric

[*LTD*]

I, too, am confused over what an MS Store will actually sell since MS really only makes software titles, an Xbox, and some keyboard/mice combos FOR CONSUMERS...there are plenty of other software packages and services that MS sells to BUSINESSES (unlike Apple) but I am not sure what the store will actually pitch. Maybe MS will team with Dell and HP and other HARDWARE VENDORS to sell some particular machines.

I think MS is just as confused as you are. If they're so confused about markets and segments they've been in for years (mobile), imagine how clueless they might be when it comes to an entirely new paradigm (retail stores.)

[Shasterball]

You just reminded me of a SJ YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzKj-1HaKw).

:D

Ha. I've never seen that video. Ooof, Jobs was rough there!

[smirking]

Poaching staff is same thing as stealing staff. Apple can have them sign NDAs before they leave as a precaution to protect Apple trade secrets and as a warning to MS.

Somehow I don't think the folks working at a retail store are let in on any information that would make NDAs useful... especially given a company with Apple's reputation for secrecy. If anyone here gets hired into an Apple store and then spends his or her first weekend attending a boot camp in which 5 year product roadmaps and executive marketing strategies are explained in detail, feel free to set me straight. ;)

[Richard1028]

Oh my! Corporate Piracy... say it ain't so!. That's never happened before. <rolling eyes>

I'm not even going to read all the adolescent fanboi crap in this thread.

Do you kids really think a freaking Apple employee cares about "passion" and loyalty when it comes to feeding his/her family?

Yeah right... they exist for you. LOL!

[andy721]

Windows 7 isn't going to "rock our world" but it's definitely the best Windows OS ever; rock solid and fast. Have you used it to be forming an opinion?

And seeing as how you're in the UK, I doubt you've actually used the HD to be forming an opinion on that either.

Ok as for the zune we can all say hands down a paper weight boring non buzzworthy tool of technology stuck in the 90s quick buck, a lame future outcome ahead for that plain piece of m$ plastic toy.

For win7 it's stable and fast loaded with new direct x 11 n stuff so yeah but nothing worth braging about. Used it for months now so far so good. Vista is a failing os and will never attain any fixes it'll always will be having issues. sad n pathetic os. So it's either xp or win7 IMO win7 64bit on mac pros as an alturnative os for bootcamp games apps etc...

[*LTD*]

Ha. I've never seen that video. Ooof, Jobs was rough there!

It's all too true. As true now as it was back then. You should see the one with the Ballmer clip included . . . "Just watch us, just watch us!" Which was back when he was still VP.

[peterdevries]

Ok as for the zune we can all say hand down a paper weight boring non buzzworthy tool of technology stuck in the 90s a lame future outcome ahead for that plain piece of m$ plastic toy.

For win7 it's stable and fast loaded with new direct x 11 n stuff so yeah but nothing worth braging about. Used it for months now so far so good. Vista is a failing os and will never attain any fixes it'll always will be having issues. sad n pathetic os. So it's either xp or win7 IMO win7 64bit on mac pros as an alturnative os for bootcamp games apps etc...

I'm afraid your post will make even less sense with all those horrible errors corrected.. :rolleyes:

[Chupa Chupa]

Maybe Apple is secretly sending these folks out the door as spies to work at Microsoft!

Seriously, Apple is known for having very, very, brand committed users. I'd think that the employees in their stores are even more committed to the Apple platform than the average user.

Are we committed to the brand or the great products they continually produce? For me (Apple customer since 1988) it's the latter. As long as Apple makes desirable products I'll buy 'em. If they start making crapgadgets I'll shed a tear and go elsewhere. I'm only committed to buying excellent products. I don't care what logo is glued to them.

As for Apple Store employees I'd say maybe in the beginning it was 100% Apple Fans. But recently I've come across plenty of employees that don't have a clue what they are selling. A paycheck is a paycheck to them, and they'll go for a bigger slice of cheese on the otherside of the room easy.

[andy721]

I'm afraid your post will make even less sense with all those horrible errors corrected.. :rolleyes:

Lol then I suggest you grab your thinking cap you dropped in your moms womb

[4D4M]

And seeing as how you're in the UK, I doubt you've actually used the HD to be forming an opinion on that either.

The UK might be "Broken Britain" these days, but thanks, you've reminded me that there is one advantage to living here!

[elppa]

It doesn't matter that they helped save Apple from near collapse?

:D

Not quite what happened though considering Apple still had a strong cash position (around 1.2 billion US) at the time and MS gave them 150m.

Anyone who does any research will realise that “deal” was about patents and IP rights and Microsoft and Apple wishing to avoid the hassle lengthly legal proceedings.

Apple did ok out of the deal cause they got Office for 5 years, patent sharing and a (albeit token) cash injection.

Microsoft did ok cause they got IE on the Mac (over Netscape, which was a coup), they avoided another legal battle (and the ensuing bad PR) and they didn't have to pay as much in settlement as they would have done if it had gone to court.

[*LTD*]

It doesn't matter that they helped save Apple from near collapse?

Except that they didn't.

Wow, I thought this myth was cleared up years ago . . .

[peterdevries]

Lol then I suggest you grab your thinking cap you dropped in your moms womb

Now that was a good one :D

[ericinboston]

I think MS is just as confused as you are. If they're so confused about markets and segments they've been in for years (mobile), imagine how clueless they might be when it comes to an entirely new paradigm (retail stores.)

Right...I mean, what are they going to sell in retail?

If you go to an Apple store, you have a small section of software, and a very large section of hardware. You also have a small section where you bring your Apple in for repair. That's really it.

So with MS really making the bulk of their money on Windows, Office, and Xbox...how will MS design the store? I can't imagine them having tons of MS Office boxes lining the wall (like Blockbuster) and ditto for Windows. The Zune may be starting to get some marketshare.

I think it will be very interesting...my guess is MS will pull in some hardware vendors to sell very particular machines since MS does not make pcs. People who are there to buy Windows or Office probably want to see it in action. But then again, why would someone go there to buy Windows when it comes with 90% of all pcs.

Maybe the retail outlets are not really to actually drive sales at the MS Store level but to educate people on the MS product line (software, hardware, etc).

-Eric

[BongoBanger]

Don't try to kid us that Windows 7 is going to rock our world, we've heard it all before with every new version of Windows, and it's still a crap OS.

And the Zune HD... what a joke.

Anyone who thinks an OS will 'rock their world' probably needs therapy. Windows 7 will, however, dominate desktop operating system markeshare over the next few years.

Whether or not you like it, Windows 7 appears to be a very, very good OS - certainly according to the reviews and the one which the vast majority of the computer using world will move to.

As for the Zune HD, it's selling well by all accounts but don't let your prejudices get in the way of reality. :)

[jlc1978]

Poaching staff is same thing as stealing staff. Apple can have them sign NDAs before they leave as a precaution to protect Apple trade secrets and as a warning to MS.

If Apple doesn't have a non-compete already in place (an NDA make no sense for a retail manager), why would anyone sign one when they leave? All a non-compete, or an NDA, does is restrict you from doing certain things; which is not in your best interests. Trade secrets are already protected by law; but I doubt there are many trade secrets at the retail store manager level.

This move means Microsoft is really desperate.

No, they are doing what most companies do when they want to enter a new line of business - go after employees of other companies to get specific skills and talents they need to launch the business.

Apple Store managers have been successful at running a retail store specializing in computers and software for a specific brand of OS - if you want to do the same you go to where the talent is and poach it.

It's like Willy Sutton said - he robbed banks because that's where the money is.

[*LTD*]

Anyone who thinks an OS will 'rock their world' probably needs therapy. Windows 7 will, however, dominate desktop operating system markeshare over the next few years.

Same as any other Windows OS. MS' ubiquitous licensing scheme assures this.

[Widowsoft]

"How can I help sir"
"well when switched on"
"before you go on sir thats a hardware issue please contact your computer manufacture sir"
:confused:

[andy721]

Now that was a good one :D

I'm sorry it's early I'm tired hungry and I'm typing all this on my iPhone

[Chupa Chupa]

Ok as for the zune we can all say hands down a paper weight boring non buzzworthy tool of technology stuck in the 90s quick buck, a lame future outcome ahead for that plain piece of m$ plastic toy.

For win7 it's stable and fast loaded with new direct x 11 n stuff so yeah but nothing worth braging about. Used it for months now so far so good. Vista is a failing os and will never attain any fixes it'll always will be having issues. sad n pathetic os. So it's either xp or win7 IMO win7 64bit on mac pros as an alturnative os for bootcamp games apps etc...

I think you are being too harsh (biased?). Look competition is good, and let's face it Apple seems to be resting on its laurels of late. They need some pressure on them. The new Touch is positively uninspired. You've have to be a fanboy with huge blinders on not to recognize that. And the Zune HD itself is pretty cool, though too immature as a system to really compete with the Touch. However, maybe good enough for Apple to take note and put some real innovation in the next Touch version. The fact they couldn't manage to get a camera inside when every other device in the world has one...even pens!...is testament to Apple's stumble of late, SJ's comments that the Touch is a game machine, notwithstanding.

Win 7 is decent for Windows. It's a heck of a lot more useable than Vista and easier on the eyes than that moldy XP. And let's face is M$ owns the business world's computers. That's not going to change so lets be happy there is a half-decent version of Win around. I prefer not to use Win but sometimes there is no option. I'd rather use Win 7 than Vista or XP any day.

[HONDAxACURA]

Let the former Apple retail staff go to the Microsoft Store. Just as long as they tell the customers to just go to Apple store.

[bawbag]

Ok as for the zune we can all say hands down a paper weight boring non buzzworthy tool of technology stuck in the 90s quick buck, a lame future outcome ahead for that plain piece of m$ plastic toy.


Yep - cause an FM radio is soooooooooooo new millenium

[djellison]

i don't see how this is legal.

I don't see why anyone would imagine it's NOT legal.

Of COURSE it's legal. headhunting happens ALL THE TIME.

There's nothing wrong with it.

[peterdevries]

I'm sorry it's early I'm tired hungry and I'm typing all this on my iPhone

You should try landscape mode ;) Don't worry, I like a good joke (which it was) and I was a bit too critical in the first place.

[Bubba Satori]

Unnecessary. :)

Whatever they do isn't going to help them. It works for Apple because Apple cares about the customers.

M$ just sees numbers. That isn't how retail works. For that fact, neither does "If you can't beat 'em, rip 'em off".

$30 billion in the bank reality distortion field. :D

[Bubba Satori]

I have nothing to say...



They should make an effort to find their own staff, not poach employees from Apple!


Yeah, it's a good thing Apple never does that. :rolleyes:

[4D4M]

Windows 7 will, however, dominate desktop operating system markeshare over the next few years.

Whether or not you like it, Windows 7 appears to be a very, very good OS - certainly according to the reviews and the one which the vast majority of the computer using world will move to.

Here we go again with the market share thing. You do know why their market share is so high compared to Apple's, don't you? If so you'll know why a lot of Apple fans (me included) want it to stay that way.

Although with convergence, the desktop OS market share will become less important, and therefore so will MS.

[siliconm]

The Zune, the Mobile initiative, the retail stores are all fighting brands. They are designed to weaken a competitor.

As an example, some years ago Coke introduced "Mr. Pibb" a Dr. Pepper taste alike in Dr. Pepper's home town, Waco, TX.

[andy721]

I think you are being too harsh (biased?). Look competition is good, and let's face it Apple seems to be resting on its laurels of late. They need some pressure on them. The new Touch is positively uninspired. You've have to be a fanboy with huge blinders on not to recognize that. And the Zune HD itself is pretty cool, though too immature as a system to really compete with the Touch. However, maybe good enough for Apple to take note and put some real innovation in the next Touch version. The fact they couldn't manage to get a camera inside when every other device in the world has one...even pens!...is testament to Apple's stumble of late, SJ's comments that the Touch is a game machine, notwithstanding.

Win 7 is decent for Windows. It's a heck of a lot more useable than Vista and easier on the eyes than that moldy XP. And let's face is M$ owns the business world's computers. That's not going to change so lets be happy there is a half-decent version of Win around. I prefer not to use Win but sometimes there is no option. I'd rather use Win 7 than Vista or XP any day.

I'm trying to be realist about the zune I and I'm sure most would like to have the best of the best but some lean toward the zune an become blind. M$ fans will always get zunes but I see more potential in iPhones then anything there is yet to be something the phone can't do especially jailbroken it's endless a bottomless pit of almost perfection but could use more ram n cores;)

I used xp vista and xp was decent and stable faster etc but win 7 wins IMO. I need something faster n stable for my work. I don't know how people are still using vista I really don't.

[*LTD*]

Once hired, the ex-Apple employees are then contacting some of the top sales people in the Apple retail organization offering them positions at Microsoft retail.

Wow, that's really going after em!

[Bubba Satori]

Once hired, the ex-Apple employees are then contacting some of the top sales people in the Apple retail organization offering them positions at Microsoft retail.

Wow, that's really going after em!

Our Apple rep used to man the Apple section at CompUSA. He couldn't wait to get out of there. Good timing on his part, cause they folded six month's later.

[andy721]

Yep - cause an FM radio is soooooooooooo new millenium

If you jailbreak there's fm radio of all kinds but I sense sarcasim so I say this in return ;)

[Sweetfeld28]

Desperate Times = Desperate Measures.

[batchtaster]

You can't buy class.

[polaris20]

Ok as for the zune we can all say hands down a paper weight boring non buzzworthy tool of technology stuck in the 90s quick buck, a lame future outcome ahead for that plain piece of m$ plastic toy.

For win7 it's stable and fast loaded with new direct x 11 n stuff so yeah but nothing worth braging about. Used it for months now so far so good. Vista is a failing os and will never attain any fixes it'll always will be having issues. sad n pathetic os. So it's either xp or win7 IMO win7 64bit on mac pros as an alturnative os for bootcamp games apps etc...

Okay, let me repeat the question I asked before; have you actually used the Zune HD to be forming such an opinion?

[VenusianSky]

Desperate Times = Desperate Measures.

I hear that. The Loop must be desperate for some traffic.

[polaris20]

The UK might be "Broken Britain" these days, but thanks, you've reminded me that there is one advantage to living here!

I'm not criticizing your country, rather just saying that because the HD is not available there for whatever reason, that you could not have possibly tried the HD to form a credible opinion about it.

[*LTD*]

Okay, let me repeat the question I asked before; have you actually used the Zune HD to be forming such an opinion?

Do you need to use it to know it's an ill-conceived, dead-end device?

Unless MS does a helluva lot more with it, it won't last very long. Apparently, we're being told it's not even competition for the iPod Touch. Which leaves it somewhere between "limited" and "pointless."

[LagunaSol]

Some of you guys on here are so mis informed. You describe a Microsoft that hasn't existed for at least a decade.

O RLY?

Ever actually TRIED windows 7?

Actually, yes - it's on my Mac right now (thank you VMware).

I've never gotten a virus. EVER. I don't have an anti virus.

So you're arguing that viruses aren't a problem for Windows users? :rolleyes:

The world does not revolve around Apple.

But apparently Microsoft does.

[polaris20]

Do you need to use it to know it's an ill-conceived, dead-end device?

Unless MS does a helluva lot more with it, it won't last very long. Apparently, we're being told it's not even competition for the iPod Touch. Which leaves it somewhere between "limited" and "pointless."


Well it's good to know you believe what you're told. :rolleyes:

Yeah, to pass judgment on a piece of hardware, it's always good to actually play with it for at least a few minutes. It's called "having an opinion based on experience" as opposed to "I read it on the interwebz, so it must be true".

[LagunaSol]

As an example, some years ago Coke introduced "Mr. Pibb" a Dr. Pepper taste alike in Dr. Pepper's home town, Waco, TX.

Yeah, how did that "Mr. Pibb" thing turn out?

[polaris20]

So you're arguing that viruses aren't a problem for Windows users? :rolleyes:


haha that one always cracks me up. "I've never gotten a virus, and I don't even run AV software". How would you know if you've never had a virus? Do you know how viruses work in the 21st century?

Unless you're a security expert, you should be running AV on Windows. To do otherwise is stupid and incompetent. Unless of course your machine is not connected to a network. At all.

[elkhockey89]

This just makes me think less of Microsoft (even less). They need to build their own structure and stop stealing from companies that are doing better than them.

If this rumor is true, it makes me want to never buy a single thing from Microsoft for the rest of my life.

Stop copying, create.



DP :apple:

[*LTD*]

Well it's good to know you believe what you're told. :rolleyes:

Yeah, to pass judgment on a piece of hardware, it's always good to actually play with it for at least a few minutes. It's called "having an opinion based on experience" as opposed to "I read it on the interwebz, so it must be true".

Did we need to play with the original Zune to know right off the bat it was going to go nowhere?

No doubt the Zune HD is a nice music and videoplayer. And?

We've been kind of past that for a couple of years now.

[polaris20]

Did we need to play with the original Zune to know right off the bat it was going to go nowhere?

No doubt the Zune HD is a nice music and videoplayer. And?

We've been kind of past that for a couple of years now.

Oh, so you're a market expert now, and because a past product failed this one definitely will? You're sure?

I'm not saying I love the HD, I'm not saying it's a guaranteed success. But competition is a very good thing, and with the recent lackluster iPT updates I'd say Apple needs some fire under their butt to start doing something interesting.

[VenusianSky]

Yeah, how did that "Mr. Pibb" thing turn out?

Mr. Pibb kicks ass!

[ChadJK]

Isn't this just how retail management works? I can hardly think of any stores or restaurants that have had the same manager for more than two consecutive years. They're always jumping ship.

[Digital Dude]

As usual, MS doesn’t have what it takes to cultivate skill and talent from the ground up, so they simply beg, borrow or steel it. This is a new low for MS and personifies just how desperate this company has become.
Regards,

[Shiner]

Exactly...and these are RETAIL people folks...not employees making hard decisions in Corporate or developing Marketing campaigns or driving strategy.

They are Retail MANAGERS who hire people, manage shifts, count the money, and possibly help customers from time to time. They're not making $100k a year (I'm not picking on them). Likely they are making $35k (in the Northeast) if that....that is extremely cheap for a company like MS to "hire away". MS has 2 choices when hiring retail managers: 1)hire someone experienced in retail or 2)someone with 0 experience. Guess which option MS (or anyone) will choose? And...might as well try to steal some people from your competitor and/or a retail model you want to mimick...this also forces Apple to rehire/retrain.

I, too, am confused over what an MS Store will actually sell since MS really only makes software titles, an Xbox, and some keyboard/mice combos FOR CONSUMERS...there are plenty of other software packages and services that MS sells to BUSINESSES (unlike Apple) but I am not sure what the store will actually pitch. Maybe MS will team with Dell and HP and other HARDWARE VENDORS to sell some particular machines.

This kind of poaching happens all the time at retailers...and it's not just direct competitors. The "loyalty" that many of you talk about for Apple manager is nuts...retail Managers turnover all the time...maybe every 1-3 years. I can assure you that Apple, like all other Retailers, doesn't give a rat's *** about retail employees.

-Eric

+1

Thank you for this post. I was getting concerned everyone on this forum had lost their mind. This is a non story. Any poster that is upset with a minimum wage manager in retail moving to a better paycheck needs to re-evaluate their own life. Go outdoors and smell the fresh air. Apple is just a business, nothing more.

[Vulpinemac]

For the first time, all the Specialists, Geniuses, Creatives... they'll all have to ask themselves what working for Apple really means. Do they work because they are passionate and engaged to represent the philosophy, ideals, and products that Apple stands for? Or are they in it just for the paycheck?

If Microsoft is unable to acquire associates that possess the same passion as those who work for Apple, their attempt at retail will be a failure.

... Microsoft is leaving themselves wide open to both industrial espionage and 'sleepers.'

Consider this: Microsoft does manage to get some managers to switch over. The manager knows which of his former employees has experience in both platforms. The manager also knows which of these employees can be discreet about their true interests. They develop the store and Microsoft appears to see some profit; after all, there are some people for whom Windows really is the better choice. However, by discussing comparisons between the two platforms, the salespeople manage to reveal that an Apple does have certain advantages while ostensibly trying to make Apple look bad. End result, those that are borderline switchers get a slight push towards Apple and OS X while making it look like they were trying to pull towards Windows.

[*LTD*]

double post.

[daviszo]

So Apple will be hiring soon? :D

Sweeet!

[VenusianSky]

+1

Thank you for this post. I was getting concerned everyone on this forum had lost their mind. This is a non story. Any poster that is upset with a minimum wage manager in retail moving to a better paycheck needs to re-evaluate their own life. Go outdoors and smell the fresh air. Apple is just a business, nothing more.

Yes, this stuff does happen all the time. Back when I worked for an office supply/computer store, a Best Buy was opening up in the nearby plaza. I had a couple people try to lure me to come work at BB. I wasn't interested, since I was only working retail while in school.

[LagunaSol]

Wow, I thought this myth was cleared up years ago . . .

Nah, the WinBots will be chewing on that chestnut for many decades to come. "We saved Apple! Woooo!!!"

Makes 'em feel all toasty inside, despite the complete lack of factuality.

[PC Killer]

Im getting sooooo tired of MS trying to take Apples ideas and claim them as their own. Im not a rocket scientist; but if MS just keeps taking Apples ideas. Wont MS always be 1 step behind? Maybe i should run MS. (not really, i'd kill myself) Maybe if MS focused on developing some new stuff that WORKED!!! they wouldn't be the second choice all the time.:confused:

[BongoBanger]

Here we go again with the market share thing. You do know why their market share is so high compared to Apple's, don't you? If so you'll know why a lot of Apple fans (me included) want it to stay that way.

Sure, it's because it's the most suitable enterprise level desktop solution, has the most commercial applications and is available on multiple vendors' hardware configurations.

That and the other vendors - Apple included - totally misjudged the emerging computer market of the late 80's and 90's.

Although with convergence, the desktop OS market share will become less important, and therefore so will MS.

You think?

[neiltc13]

Im getting sooooo tired of MS trying to take Apples ideas and claim them as their own. Im not a rocket scientist; but if MS just keeps taking Apples ideas. Wont MS always be 1 step behind? Maybe i should run MS. (not really, i'd kill myself) Maybe if MS focused on developing some new stuff that WORKED!!! they wouldn't be the second choice all the time.:confused:

Would you care to give some examples of ideas which Apple came up with which Microsoft have 'taken'?

[JohnnyQuest]

Stories like this really make me hate Microsoft even more. FOCUS ON MAKING SOME BETTER PRODUCTS. If they put as much effort into that as they do into being nasty, they might have some great competition for Apple.

[question fear]

But how many people work at Levi's because they WANT to work there? How passionate are they in selling Levi's products? How much do they care about the company as a brand, a philosophy? It's that type of passion that Apple looks for in their retail staff. If an Apple employee doesn't have it, they'll take the job at Microsoft.

Have you ever been a retail manager? People call you all the freaking time trying to recruit you. I worked for Borders for 3 years as a sales manager, and would get recruiting calls from places like LensCrafters! I loved books, I was passionate about books, but LensCrafters was ready to offer me significantly more money...I ended up leaving retail entirely, but seriously, don't dismiss salaries out of hand...if you're getting paid peanuts at Apple, and MSFT offers to double your salary, I don't care how loyal you are, retail is retail, its tough work for **** money, if you get more offered to you take it. Until your soul breaks from *******s and you leave. Or get promoted.

Isn't this just how retail management works? I can hardly think of any stores or restaurants that have had the same manager for more than two consecutive years. They're always jumping ship.

Exactly. You get promoted or you jump ship...more money, more benefits, etc. Most retail stores don't pay all that great, so if you're offered more money it's a huge boon...

I also wonder if Microsoft is truly calling tons of Apple retail employees; far more likely is that some mall property sold Microsoft recruiter a list of store managers, and they're calling down the list trying to recruit people.

[Mattie Num Nums]

After working Apple Retail for 4 years I can tell you Apple does the same thing. I was lured away from CompUSA with 3 other employees. I was shocked to find out that almost every manager at Apple Retail was eithe a former Gap Manager or Pottery Barn manager. Apple and every other retailer in the world does the exact same thing Microsoft does... its called Retail stop whining. Microsoft didn't just wake up and invent this form of hiring.

[*LTD*]

Stories like this really make me hate Microsoft even more. FOCUS ON MAKING SOME BETTER PRODUCTS. If they put as much effort into that as they do into being nasty, they might have some great competition for Apple.

But at the end of the day, can you really blame them?

Tapping in to the Apple ecosystem is always big business and is really nothing new. This is just another way to turn an old trick.

[bartzilla]

I have nothing to say...



They should make an effort to find their own staff, not poach employees from Apple!

Oh come on. What are you (and the others expressing the same view) all twelve years old or something? You really think Apple would hesitate to hire staff from Microsoft if were beneficial to them? You think Apple haven't hired staff from other IT companies in the past? For gods sake grow up.

This is how retail works. It's fairly common practice to do this, especially from a point of view of recruiting experienced staff when your business is new to the sector.

[Tehr-Ree]

That's just pathetic

I don't need to respond. Someone already posted exactly what I was going to say.

[VenusianSky]

Would you care to give some examples of ideas which Apple came up with which Microsoft have 'taken'?

Apple invented stores. Before Apple Stores there was no such thing as a place where you could walk into and browse a product line, ask questions, get help, and make a purchase. :p

[Mattie Num Nums]

But at the end of the day, can you really blame them?

Tapping in to the Apple ecosystem is always big business and is really nothing new. This is just another way to turn an old trick.

Whos Ecosystem did Apple tap before? Think before you type.

Apple invented stores. Before Apple Stores there was no such thing as a place where you could walk into and browse a product line, ask questions, get help, and make a purchase. :p

And all of Apples Employees were angels sent from heaven by God (aka Steve Jobs.)

[theLastBeatle]

think about what this means to the esteem of mac bashers. while they tout and criticize the mac and say how superior windows is, microsoft looks to that supposedly inferior company (apple) for talent to work in their stores? doesnt really work well for the mac basher arguments.

[*LTD*]

Whos Ecosystem did Apple tap before? Think before you type.

No ones.

[Mattie Num Nums]

think about what this means to the esteem of mac bashers. while they tout and criticize the mac and say how superior windows is, microsoft looks to that supposedly inferior company (apple) for talent to work in their stores? doesnt really work well for the mac basher arguments.

Their is no commitment to retail. Retail managers and employees go from chain to chain looking for the best money and opportunities. Case in point many Apple managers worked at Pottery Barn, Gap, Best Buy, and CompUSA. My old manager used to work at Best Buy and was a notorious Mac hater. Retail is retail. Employees smile and cheer and behind the scenes, complain, and disagree.

[thegoldenmackid]

I heard pcrumors.com was trying to get the MR staff...

[walter101]

Keep this in mind--When a company offers you a lot of money to join them they want you to fix their problem. After the problem is fixed they don't need you.

This has been said many times before " Microsoft does what it does best---COPY"