Census Worker Hung in KY -- "FED" Written on Chest

[bobber205]

:(
This is sick.

Video (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/32994109#32994109)

Text Source (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32991672/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/)

A U.S. Census worker found hanged from a tree near a Kentucky cemetery had the word "fed" scrawled on his chest, a law enforcement official said Wednesday, and the FBI is investigating whether he was a victim of anti-government sentiment.

The law enforcement official, who was not authorized to discuss the case and requested anonymity, did not say what type of instrument was used to write the word on the chest of Bill Sparkman, a 51-year-old part-time Census field worker and teacher. He was found Sept. 12 in a remote patch of the Daniel Boone National Forest in rural southeast Kentucky.

[Eraserhead]

Jesus Christ. America keeps surprising me. And certainly not in a good way.

[Rt&Dzine]

They're still trying to determine whether foul play was involved. It would be a strange suicide with "fed" written on his chest. It's hard to write upside-down and backward (I assume that's how the writing was oriented). Unlikely, but it could have been added later.

[Zombie Acorn]

They're still trying to determine whether foul play was involved. It would be a strange suicide with "fed" written on his chest. It's hard to write upside-down and backward (I assume that's how the writing was oriented). Unlikely, but it could have been added later.

I know people who have tattooed their own chest, its not that hard.

[bobber205]

I know people who have tattooed their own chest, its not that hard.

Oh god, don't tell me you're going to try to slant this as being as anything not a hate crime are you?

The changes of that are so low. And again, just because you know some savant that did it, doesn't make it easy.

[Zombie Acorn]

Oh god, don't tell me you're going to try to slant this as being as anything not a hate crime are you?

The changes of that are so low. And again, just because you know some savant that did it, doesn't make it easy.

Well being as it is in Kentucky there may be a likelihood that he was murdered. I was just saying that its not that hard to write upside down/backwards on your own chest. Just because the chances are low doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked into along with everything else.

Also this is from an anonymous source, I don't think its even been confirmed yet.

[Rt&Dzine]

Oh god, don't tell me you're going to try to slant this as being as anything not a hate crime are you?

The changes of that are so low. And again, just because you know some savant that did it, doesn't make it easy.

Regardless, it should be a no-brainer for the FBI to determine if he wrote it himself.

[NC MacGuy]

Jesus Christ. America keeps surprising me. And certainly not in a good way.

America doesn't have a lock on crazies.

I would wait until everything is in before jumping the gun. Good ol' boys quit hangings a while ago. People just disappear now.
This could have been a killing for something else entirely using the fed angle to throw people off.

Of course MSNBC will try their hardest to show a crazed right wing lunatic group executing census takers. I believe as much from them as I do Fox news.

[Thomas Veil]

I'll believe it was "something else" when the police say it is.

What's so hard to believe about an anti-government hanging? The right wing hate media fills the air with a constant barrage of bile about death panels, ACORN, "Communist" art and other lunacy. I'll bet some time today Rush Limbaugh will be yelling about how this guy was probably murdered by lefties to make the right look bad.

Could be some dittohead somewhere in KY finally decided to "send a message".

[NC MacGuy]

I'll believe it was "something else" when the police say it is.

What's so hard to believe about an anti-government hanging? The right wing hate media fills the air with a constant barrage of bile about death panels, ACORN, "Communist" art and other lunacy. I'll bet some time today Rush Limbaugh will be yelling about how this guy was probably murdered by lefties to make the right look bad.

Could be some dittohead somewhere in KY finally decided to "send a message".

Kentucky? Where this was, they don't even know how to use radios so your scary dittoheads shouldn't be a factor.
ACORN has always been a shady group on the edge of the law and deserved to be in the mainstream media for their voting registration practices long before the latest BS. How many Clint Eastwoods, Donald Ducks & Mickey Mouses voted for Franken?

[Eraserhead]

Kentucky? Where this was, they don't even know how to use radios so your scary dittoheads shouldn't be a factor.
ACORN has always been a shady group on the edge of the law and deserved to be in the mainstream media for their voting registration practices long before the latest BS. How many Clint Eastwoods, Donald Ducks & Mickey Mouses voted for Franken?

Yeah you're right. The republicans just buy the supreme court to get their man in.

[leekohler]

Kentucky? Where this was, they don't even know how to use radios so your scary dittoheads shouldn't be a factor.
ACORN has always been a shady group on the edge of the law and deserved to be in the mainstream media for their voting registration practices long before the latest BS. How many Clint Eastwoods, Donald Ducks & Mickey Mouses voted for Franken?

At least Clint Eastwood, Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse have brains.

This is disgusting. Of course, I don't expect the right to take ownership of this if this indeed was an anti-government crime. They'll make excuses and most likely say the guy deserved it in a roundabout way.

[yg17]

Kentucky? Where this was, they don't even know how to use radios so your scary dittoheads shouldn't be a factor.
ACORN has always been a shady group on the edge of the law and deserved to be in the mainstream media for their voting registration practices long before the latest BS. How many Clint Eastwoods, Donald Ducks & Mickey Mouses voted for Franken?


There's a difference between voter registration fraud and vote fraud. It's not a huge problem until Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse show up to vote, and AFAIK, there's no proof they actually did, it was just fake applications sent in, which, while a problem and while illegal, has no effect on the outcome of the election.

[BigHungry04]

Kentucky? Where this was, they don't even know how to use radios so your scary dittoheads shouldn't be a factor.
ACORN has always been a shady group on the edge of the law and deserved to be in the mainstream media for their voting registration practices long before the latest BS. How many Clint Eastwoods, Donald Ducks & Mickey Mouses voted for Franken?

This was in Clay County, Kentucky. This is a rural county but they do have radios. They even have TV and the internet. This kind of stereotyping just makes me angry, it has no place in the world today.

[Shivetya]

Jesus Christ. America keeps surprising me. And certainly not in a good way.

Don't worry, we have hundreds of years of catching up with all the atrocities committed in Europe and the like.

[imac/cheese]

This is disgusting. Of course, I don't expect the right to take ownership of this if this indeed was an anti-government crime. They'll make excuses and most likely say the guy deserved it in a roundabout way.

You are right, this is disgusting, but why should any group take ownership of this crime?

[nbs2]

I find it interesting the difference of opinion between the retired trooper and scholar. One says that he thought that the area would be especially unsafe, the other that the sentiment would be no worse than other parts of the country.

I am curious though - if it was a message killing, what was the point of keeping it quiet. He was killed on the 12th, and they just found him decomposed enough that a cremation has been highly reccommended. If you want to send a message, you want the body found. Leaving it in a remote area doesn't make sense.

America doesn't have a lock on crazies.

I would wait until everything is in before jumping the gun. Good ol' boys quit hangings a while ago. People just disappear now.
This could have been a killing for something else entirely using the fed angle to throw people off.

Of course MSNBC will try their hardest to show a crazed right wing lunatic group executing census takers. I believe as much from them as I do Fox news.

Your Kentucky most didn't make much sense, as I can't tell if you were being serious or not. This post, though, does present an interesting question - could it have been done to hide another motive (perhaps something as simple as a robbery or burglary gone bad)?

That being said, on its face, it looks more like a crazy than any other explanation. Skepticism is there in the details, but targetting a face of the government has been used for message purposes for as long as there have been governments?

Oh god, don't tell me you're going to try to slant this as being as anything not a hate crime are you?

A hate crime? Really? And what, please tell me, protected group is defined as "federal employees full or part time"? Does it look like it was a vile act by some folks who really need to get some professional therapy? Yes. Does it look like they targetting this guy simply because he was a freaking census taker? Is it incredible that of all the possible federal employees to attack, a census taker who may be among the most harmless of them all was the target of choice? Yes.

Hate crime? No.

The changes of that are so low. And again, just because you know some savant that did it, doesn't make it easy.

I don't know if it would take a savant to learn how to write upside down. I just tried writing "fed" upside down and it didn't turn out half bad.

[iShater]

You are right, this is disgusting, but why should any group take ownership of this crime?

I was thinking the same thing, this kinda crap isn't owner by anybody.

[Zombie Acorn]

At least Clint Eastwood, Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse have brains.

This is disgusting. Of course, I don't expect the right to take ownership of this if this indeed was an anti-government crime. They'll make excuses and most likely say the guy deserved it in a roundabout way.

Lolers, why the hell should the right take ownership of this even if it was some whacky anti-government move? Do you take ownership of environmentalist attacks which border on terrorism?

[leekohler]

Lolers, why the hell should the right take ownership of this even if it was some whacky anti-government move? Do you take ownership of environmentalist attacks which border on terrorism?

They should because they promote anti-government sentiment. Their motto is that the government can't do anything and is evil. If you're gonna walk that walk, you damn well better not be surprised when s*** like this happens.

And yeah, I condemn environmentalist attacks that "border on terrorism". I'd also include those people as part of the left wing. The right needs to realize that they can't disown anti-government wackos when they loudly promote anti-government attitudes.

[Shivetya]

They should because they promote anti-government sentiment. Their motto is that the government can't do anything and is evil. If you're gonna walk that walk, you damn well better not be surprised when s*** like this happens.

And yeah, I condemn environmentalist attacks that "border on terrorism". I'd also include those people as part of the left wing. The right needs to realize that they can't disown anti-government wackos when they loudly promote anti-government attitudes.

Demanding a smaller federal government, lower taxes, and such, is a call for GOOD government. It isn't anti- to want control of that behemoth back under the people instead of the psychopaths that run Congress.

There is a very big difference between people of the Hills and those of anywhere else in America. Its best to just leave them alone. Really. They don't bother anyone and no one smart bothers them. I doubt the FBI is looking forward to it. They are only "of the right" in the sense they are very self sufficient and protective of their personal space. The difference is they don't ascribe to either side.

[Zombie Acorn]

They should because they promote anti-government sentiment. Their motto is that the government can't do anything and is evil. If you're gonna walk that walk, you damn well better not be surprised when s*** like this happens.

And yeah, I condemn environmentalist attacks that "border on terrorism". I'd also include those people as part of the left wing. The right needs to realize that they can't disown anti-government wackos when they loudly promote anti-government attitudes.

Anti-government is anarchism. That isn't what the right is about. Even if this is an anti-government move I don't really understand the point of attacking a census worker, it doesn't really make much sense (once again this is kentucky so who knows). Some of the backwoods places around the south I wouldn't even go into.

[leekohler]

Demanding a smaller federal government, lower taxes, and such, is a call for GOOD government.

That's not what you guys say though. Your claim is always that government isn't good at doing anything. Don't even try to deny that.

The difference is they don't ascribe to either side.

That remains to be seen. But I pretty much knew you'd go here. That was predictable.

[Zombie Acorn]

That's not what you guys say though. Your claim is always that government isn't good at doing anything. Don't even try to deny that.


I just commented on the student reform thread not but an hour ago saying that it was a good idea for the government to handle the program directly. :eek:

[leekohler]

I just commented on the student reform thread not but an hour ago saying that it was a good idea for the government to handle the program directly. :eek:

I meant collectively- not you as an individual. ;)

[Zombie Acorn]

I meant collectively- not you as an individual. ;)

I don't know many normal people who would want to be associated with the collective right if their poster children are people like Glen Beck and Palin. I have a feeling I am going to have to waste my vote again come election time, either that or vote Obama if the repubs try to put up a religious nutball :eek:

[bamaworks]

This was in Clay County, Kentucky. This is a rural county but they do have radios. They even have TV and the internet. This kind of stereotyping just makes me angry, it has no place in the world today.

I'll second that, I even own a Macintosh computer. :rolleyes: This coming from a guy who grew up in an adjacent county to Clay, I even went to college and got multiple degrees! It was difficult without running water, shoes, or any entertainment other than what I could provide with my banjo and partially inbred mind, but I made it!

[bamaworks]

Well being as it is in Kentucky there may be a likelihood that he was murdered. I was just saying that its not that hard to write upside down/backwards on your own chest. Just because the chances are low doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked into along with everything else.

Also this is from an anonymous source, I don't think its even been confirmed yet.

Being as it is in Kentucky? There are states with much higher crime rates than KY.... in fact KY is below the national average.

Ref: http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/tables/09s0297.pdf

[kavika411]

Kentucky? Where this was, they don't even know how to use radios...

Perhaps you can indulge us and go state by state, letting us know what their respective citizens are and are not capable of. Thanks.

[.Andy]

Perhaps you can indulge us and go state by state, letting us know what their respective citizens are and are not capable of. Thanks.
Alabamians aren't good at being the butt of jokes.

[kavika411]

Alabamians aren't good at being the butt of jokes.

Pics, or it didn't happen. ;)

[.Andy]

Pics, or it didn't happen. ;)
I'll be put on time-out if I post those pics :D!

[NC MacGuy]

Perhaps you can indulge us and go state by state, letting us know what their respective citizens are and are not capable of. Thanks.

I'll second that, I even own a Macintosh computer. :rolleyes: This is coming from a guy who grew up in an adjacent county to Clay, I even went to college and got multiple degrees! And trust me, NC is no different than KY with regard to the so called 'backwards' populous.

This was in Clay County, Kentucky. This is a rural county but they do have radios. They even have TV and the internet. This kind of stereotyping just makes me angry, it has no place in the world today.

Lighten up Francis. It was a joke. I wasn't serious. Don't send Bubba & his brothers/cousins down here to hurt me.;) I'd like to participate on these boards much more but everything is taken so seriously. Sorry I even posted, again.

[bamaworks]

Lighten up Francis. It was a joke. I wasn't serious. Don't send Bubba & his brothers/cousins down here to hurt me.;) I'd like to participate on these boards much more but everything is taken so seriously. Sorry I even posted, again.


I recommend pulling out racial jokes next, they go over really well with everyone involved.

[NC MacGuy]

I recommend pulling out racial jokes next, they go over really well with everyone involved.

Being part Jew, I'm stingy and will only dole out the absolute minimum. Sorry to disappoint but the racial jokes hit their quota in July.;)

[bamaworks]

Being part Jew, I'm stingy and will only dole out the absolute minimum. Sorry to disappoint but the racial jokes hit their quota in July.;)

Touche. :D

[.Andy]

I recommend pulling out racial jokes next, they go over really well with everyone involved.
You actually get offended when someone takes a shot at where you live :confused:?

[leekohler]

Kentucky? Where this was, they don't even know how to use radios so your scary dittoheads shouldn't be a factor.


This coming from someone in North Carolina? Talk about throwing stones near glass houses. :D

Lighten up, Francis. It was a joke. ;)

[Rt&Dzine]

Kentucky has nice grass. :)

[leekohler]

Kentucky has nice grass. :)

And better bourbon. :) I like Kentucky a lot actually. I have quite a few friends from there who live here now, so we go down to visit from time to time. Really nice people, and lots of fun. And bourbon...and distilleries...and cute blond southern boys with accents...and...OK I'll stop now. :)

[bamaworks]

You actually get offended when someone takes a shot at where you live :confused:?

I can't decide if you're being sarcastic or not... so...

It probably stems from where I have great pride in where I'm from, though I would suppose I'm a hardcore Kentuckian. I love horse racing, basketball, a good cigar, and a fine bourbon.

[leekohler]

I can't decide if you're being sarcastic or not... so...

It probably stems from where I have great pride in where I'm from, though I would suppose I'm a hardcore Kentuckian. I love horse racing, basketball, a good cigar, and a fine bourbon.

I don't get why Kentucky gets that rap either. It's beautiful, and the people are awesome.

[.Andy]

I can't decide if you're being sarcastic or not... so...
Not at all.

It probably stems from where I have great pride in where I'm from, though I would suppose I'm a hardcore Kentuckian. I love horse racing, basketball, a good cigar, and a fine bourbon.
Fair enough. Perhaps I've just never lived in a place that I'm keen enough to take pride in.

[smwatson]

How has America gone from the place everyone wanted to move to to this hilarious disaster of a country.

[leekohler]

How has America gone from the place everyone wanted to move to to this hilarious disaster of a country.

Ignorance, stupidity and fear.

[Rt&Dzine]

I apologize for the speculation but I like detective stories. Another possible motive :

Davis said it was a dangerous time of year for someone to go knocking on doors because marijuana producers are typically harvesting their crop. "It would be reckless." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/24/AR2009092400258.html?hpid=moreheadlines

p.s. I didn't mean this type of grass in my previous post. :)

[smwatson]

Ignorance, stupidity and fear.

:(

How do you rate your country's chances of pulling out of it?

[Eraserhead]

Don't worry, we have hundreds of years of catching up with all the atrocities committed in Europe and the like.

The EU15 (and probably EU25 - both of which include UK, France, Germany, Spain, Belgium etc.) may have done a lot of bad things. But we've really cleaned up our act since we got rid of our respective Empires. EDIT or 1960 whichever is later as I believe Germany lost their empire after WW1 (though they gained another.)

[leekohler]

:(

How do you rate your country's chances of pulling out of it?

I'm hoping that people will wake up at some point.

[Badandy]

How has America gone from the place everyone wanted to move to to this hilarious disaster of a country.

Seriously?

You do know that visiting now is no different than visiting ten years ago except that the crime rate has fallen in that time?

I mean, c'mon, you hear about one murder and you make these huge judgements about an entire country? I don't call England a joke of a country when I hear of a knifing or a political scandal.

[smwatson]

Seriously?

You do know that visiting now is no different than visiting ten years ago except that the crime rate has fallen in that time?

I mean, c'mon, you hear about one murder and you make these huge judgements about an entire country? I don't call England a joke of a country when I hear of a knifing or a political scandal.

Not all that long ago moving to America was the big thing. People wanted to escape to the amazing prosperous land of America and have an nice house in New England and reap the benefits of low living costs and high quality of life.

Now people see America as a backward racist country full of ignorant idiots who are ridiculously gullible and naive. You elected Bush TWICE.

[Zombie Acorn]

Not all that long ago moving to America was the big thing. People wanted to escape to the amazing prosperous land of America and have an nice house in New England and reap the benefits of low living costs and high quality of life.

Now people see America as a backward racist country full of ignorant idiots who are ridiculously gullible and naive. You elected Bush TWICE.

We had a nice marketing ploy for a while, those immigrants who thought America was awesome usually worked crap jobs. :p

[Iscariot]

I don't call England a joke of a country when I hear of a knifing or a political scandal.

That's because everybody knows England is already nothing more than a punch-line.

[Badandy]

Not all that long ago moving to America was the big thing. People wanted to escape to the amazing prosperous land of America and have an nice house in New England and reap the benefits of low living costs and high quality of life.

Now people see America as a backward racist country full of ignorant idiots who are ridiculously gullible and naive. You elected Bush TWICE.

As someone who lives in America, it's not all that different than it was 8 years ago. Also, as someone who's travelled around Europe, the amount of racial slurs and bigoted/homophobic speech I encountered was downright shocking.

[jknight8907]

Seriously?

You do know that visiting now is no different than visiting ten years ago except that the crime rate has fallen in that time?

I mean, c'mon, you hear about one murder and you make these huge judgements about an entire country? I don't call England a joke of a country when I hear of a knifing or a political scandal.

Nobody's talking about coming here on vacation. They're talking about living here, or immigrating here. And there are BIG differences in this country between now and what it was 10 years ago.

[Zombie Acorn]

Nobody's talking about coming here on vacation. They're talking about living here, or immigrating here. And there are BIG differences in this country between now and what it was 10 years ago.

They don't have to migrate to see Americans anymore we are occupying every country. :p

[Badandy]

Nobody's talking about coming here on vacation. They're talking about living here, or immigrating here. And there are BIG differences in this country between now and what it was 10 years ago.

Please name some of these differences. Remember, differences from 10 years ago that a normal person would notice.

[Shivetya]

How has America gone from the place everyone wanted to move to to this hilarious disaster of a country.

Uh, I think our immigration numbers still stomp yours... and for good reason.

[Shivetya]

:(

How do you rate your country's chances of pulling out of it?

I think a little over three years should be enough... then we can get the latest race warlord out of Washington.

[.Andy]

Uh, I think our immigration numbers still stomp yours... and for good reason.
You've not a moat?

[leekohler]

Please name some of these differences. Remember, differences from 10 years ago that a normal person would notice.

What? It's a very different place now, Badandy. I think a lot of people would notice. It's much meaner than it used to be. I see that every day.

And I don't know what you're talking about as far as Europe is concerned. I encountered no such racism at all. It was quite the opposite.

[Badandy]

What? It's a very different place now, Badandy. I think a lot of people would notice. It's much meaner than it used to be. I see that every day.

As someone who supports gay rights (but who isn't gay so I'll defer to your judgement on this one), I find far less homophobia now than 10 years ago. Sure, some of it still exists in the country, but I think it's improved over the past 10 years. Crime has also come down and I really don't see how it's any meaner. Has your attitude changed in 10 years? Seems like the only thing that's different is the media coverage around the world.

And I don't know what you're talking about as far as Europe is concerned. I encountered no such racism at all. It was quite the opposite.

This is surprising. I heard multiple people use the n-word (with the "er" at the end) as if it was a normal curse word. It was extremely unpleasant and disconcerting. Sure, I'm from California where this isn't as common as it may be in the South, but it was far worse than I've ever heard.

[Eraserhead]

As someone who lives in America, it's not all that different than it was 8 years ago. Also, as someone who's travelled around Europe, the amount of racial slurs and bigoted/homophobic speech I encountered was downright shocking.

The real problem is that America hasn't improved. You guys still have poor public transport, poor environmental awareness, poor airports, poor healthcare, only OK schools, a poor murder rate and the religious right. Other countries - both developed and developing have improved those things significantly over the last 10-20 years. You guys haven't.

EDIT: and then there's human rights where the US has got significantly worse.

[leekohler]

As someone who supports gay rights (but who isn't gay so I'll defer to your judgement on this one), I find far less homophobia now than 10 years ago. Sure, some of it still exists in the country, but I think it's improved over the past 10 years. Crime has also come down and I really don't see how it's any meaner. Has your attitude changed in 10 years? Seems like the only thing that's different is the media coverage around the world.

I wasn't talking about homophobia (which is much better, but still has a long way to go), I was speaking in general. Civil discourse has degraded to nothing but shouting. It's almost impossible to have an intelligent political discussion these days without people yelling, much less using facts. People are much less friendly than they used to be. I've noticed that a lot.



This is surprising. I heard multiple people use the n-word (with the "er" at the end) as if it was a normal curse word. It was extremely unpleasant and disconcerting. Sure, I'm from California where this isn't as common as it may be in the South, but it was far worse than I've ever heard.

California isn't the whole United States, Badandy. Leave California and stay out of major cities and see what you find. It's not pleasant.

[Eraserhead]

Uh, I think our immigration numbers still stomp yours... and for good reason.

A major issue here is population density ;)

[Desertrat]

To return to the OP:

Michelle Malkin has reviewed what is known, and commented at length in her column, closing with:

"To recap:
1) Police have not determined yet that this was murder.
2) He wasn’t hanging from the tree.
3) It hasn’t been determined if he was even working as a Census data collector at the time of his death or whether that job had anything at all to do with his demise."

IOW, the yapping and yowling about the death is about as accurate as the yapping and yowling about racism in the U.S.

'Rat

[Zombie Acorn]

As someone who supports gay rights (but who isn't gay so I'll defer to your judgement on this one), I find far less homophobia now than 10 years ago. Sure, some of it still exists in the country, but I think it's improved over the past 10 years. Crime has also come down and I really don't see how it's any meaner. Has your attitude changed in 10 years? Seems like the only thing that's different is the media coverage around the world.



This is surprising. I heard multiple people use the n-word (with the "er" at the end) as if it was a normal curse word. It was extremely unpleasant and disconcerting. Sure, I'm from California where this isn't as common as it may be in the South, but it was far worse than I've ever heard.

Im not exactly in the south (midwest), but I don't think the n-word is all that commonly used, in fact the last time I heard it was from a black person talking to his friend at the gym (most likely from chicago).

[.Andy]

Michelle Malkin
This explains a lot.

[NC MacGuy]

The real problem is that America hasn't improved. You guys still have poor public transport, poor environmental awareness, poor airports, poor healthcare, only OK schools, a poor murder rate and the religious right. Other countries - both developed and developing have improved those things significantly over the last 10-20 years. You guys haven't.

EDIT: and then there's human rights where the US has got significantly worse.

Not entirely true and an extremely broad based statement.

Why do y'all hate on America so much?

It certainly isn't perfect but you make it appear as though we have people dying in the streets because of no healthcare, losing hands for stealing, having tongues cut out for blasphemy, being shot for protesting an election, getting lashes for drinking in public, being gang raped and having arms chopped off because you're of a different ethnicity,..........

[leekohler]

Not entirely true and an extremely broad based statement.

No- it IS entirely true. We have been stagnant for a long time.

AS for human right abuses- Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and our own messed up prison system and laws that lock up a huge portion (one out of 100, more than any other country) of our population are all examples of how much worse we have become.

[Zombie Acorn]

No- it IS entirely true. We have been stagnant for a long time.

AS for human right abuses- Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and our own messed up prison system and laws that lock up a huge portion (one out of 100, more than any other country) of our population are all examples of how much worse we have become.

Stagnant? A good majority of world innovation is still coming from here. If it not for America we wouldn't have facebook or google.

[NC MacGuy]

No- it IS entirely true. We have been stagnant for a long time.

AS for human right abuses- Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and our own messed up prison system and laws that lock up a huge portion (one out of 100, more than any other country) of our population are all examples of how much worse we have become.

I don't agree.

Prison is our way of preventing the "cruel and unusual punishment" for crimes that some other countries willingly meter out thus keeping their prison populations artificially low.

Not knowing each individuals case in the holding of hostile combatants in Abu Ghraib or Guantanemo, the premise for these make shift holding facilities where they are fed, clothed, allowed to worship and provided medical care was in lieu of blowing the back of their heads off on the battlefield.

Last I heard, we stopped imprisoning citizens based on their opinions that are contrary to our governments.

[leekohler]

I don't agree.

Prison is our way of preventing the "cruel and unusual punishment" for crimes that some other countries willingly meter out thus keeping their prison populations artificially low.

Not knowing each individuals case in the holding of hostile combatants in Abu Ghraib or Guantanemo, the premise for these make shift holding facilities where they are fed, clothed, allowed to worship and provided medical care was in lieu of blowing the back of their heads off on the battlefield.


You've got to be kidding. This is so convoluted I don't even know how to answer.

Stagnant? A good majority of world innovation is still coming from here. If it not for America we wouldn't have facebook or google.

For now. Given how our education system is performing in the area of science, I wonder how long that will continue. In the area of social issues, we are woefully stagnant and very far behind the rest of the world.

[Zombie Acorn]

You've got to be kidding. This is so convoluted I don't even know how to answer.



For now. Given how our education system is performing in the area of science, I wonder how long that will continue. In the area of social issues, we are woefully stagnant and very far behind the rest of the world.

We currently hold 17/25 of the best colleges in the world in our nation, in the top 10 we hold 8. The UK has 2. Our science isn't going anywhere, high school level science isn't really preparation for college level courses anyways. Our high schools suck, our colleges are great.

[leekohler]

We currently hold 17/25 of the best colleges in the world in our nation, in the top 10 we hold 8. The UK has 2. Our science isn't going anywhere, high school level science isn't really preparation for college level courses anyways. Our high schools suck, our colleges are great.

If one can afford them.

Then there's this:

Demographic Trends and Flows
The declining number of U.S. doctoral science and engineering degrees relates in part to a significant decrease in the college-age population, a decrease that has occurred in all major industrial countries. The U.S. college-age population decreased by 20 percent from 1980 to 1997. Europe is having an even steeper decline in its college-age population, a reduction of 27 percent from 1985 to 2005. Japan’s college-age population will decrease by 30 percent by 2015. These trends partly explain the need of Western and Japanese universities to augment the number of graduate students entering science and engineering departments, as well as the increasing flow of foreign students from countries such as China and India, each of which have around 90 million young people in their college age cohort.

There is some evidence of an increasing flow of foreign science and engineering graduate students to a number of industrialized countries. Enrollments of foreign students at the graduate level at U.K. universities increased from 28.9 percent in 1995 to 31.5 percent in 1999. Foreign student enrollment is at an all-time high in the United States, representing around 40 percent of all graduate students in engineering, math, and computer sciences. The increasing amount of academic research in industrialized countries and the declining college-age populations are some of the factors that have fostered the flow of science and engineering students to advanced countries. The traditional host countries for large numbers of foreign students (the United States, France, and the United Kingdom) now include Japan and Germany. Japan’s goal of 100,000 foreign students is once again being discussed as a serious target. In 1999, 22,000 foreign students were enrolled in graduate programs in Japan, mainly from China and South Korea, representing 10 percent of the graduate students in science and engineering fields. Germany is also recruiting foreign students from India and China to fill their research universities, particularly in engineering and computer science.

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/soe/cihe/newsletter/News24/text002.htm

That's not exactly a good thing. Do you think all those students stay here when they graduate? I'd say our science os definitely going somewhere else, much like our jobs.

[Zombie Acorn]

If one can afford them.

Then there's this:



That's not exactly a good thing. Do you think all those students stay here when they graduate? I'd say our science os definitely going somewhere else, much like our jobs.

I think its great, I enjoy having foreign people in my courses, in fact I tend to get along with them better than most Americans. I am not sure statistically but I know quite a bit of my first graduating class stayed in the US. I know one became an art director up at Leo Burnett.

We can do a great deal of "brain drain" from the rest of the world by attracting foreign kids to our colleges, the alternative is that they stay in their home countries and we don't get a chance at all at keeping them here.

I do think we should be providing more grants to the sciences though, its not like we can ever run out of technological advances.

[NT1440]

Stagnant? A good majority of world innovation is still coming from here. If it not for America we wouldn't have facebook or google.

Technology wise yea we have innovation, as a society, we've been stagnating for quite a while.

[NT1440]

I don't agree.

Prison is our way of preventing the "cruel and unusual punishment" for crimes that some other countries willingly meter out thus keeping their prison populations artificially low.


What other civilized countries don't have a prison system and deal with cutting off limbs instead?

I think we're a joke compared to much of Europe.

[NC MacGuy]

That's not exactly a good thing. Do you think all those students stay here when they graduate? I'd say our science os definitely going somewhere else, much like our jobs.

I worked at a Univ. for eleven years. My experience is the American kids wanted to get out quick and make lots of money and few were willing to put in the work or sacrifices needed for the sciences.

MBA's, Sports Medicine, Journalism, Social Work... That's what American kids liked (or chose.)

Chinese came in and hit up our sciences almost overnight when Clinton came into office, previous to that it was Middle Easterners and Eastern Europeans.
Indians have done well here in science and medicine and most do stay.

[Desertrat]

.Andy, are you saying that Michelle Malkin lied? That reports of the guy being on the ground, not hanging suspended, are lies?

Are you saying that the cops aren't saying "death by asphyxiation", rather than "murder"?

Do you know the difference between a recitation of facts, vs. conclusions derived from facts?

In the FWIW department, how do we know the guy wasn't doing a David Carradine number? :D

'Rat

[Gelfin]

.Andy, are you saying that Michelle Malkin lied?

Were her lips moving?

[NC MacGuy]

Dude may have unwittingly stumbled on a meth lab.

Area is known for meth production and very little for political activism.

[Zombie Acorn]

So was this guy hung, did he have fed written on his chest or did the left just try to spin this ala fox style to incite the left against the right?

[NC MacGuy]

So was this guy hung, did he have fed written on his chest or did the left just try to spin this ala fox style to incite the left against the right?

Asphyxiated
FED written in pen
hanging but not hung
not officially working at the time
area of marijuana cultivation & meth labs

[Desertrat]

"Were her lips moving? "

Oh. Sorry, Gelfin. I hadn't realized she worked in the White House.

NC MacGuy, some think the doer wrote "fed" because he couldn't spell "revenuer".

[Gelfin]

NC MacGuy, some think the doer wrote "fed" because he couldn't spell "revenuer".

Earlier I considered posting a "police sketch" of Snuffy Smith here, but thought it in poor taste.

[Eraserhead]

Technology wise yea we have innovation, as a society, we've been stagnating for quite a while.

Agreed.

What other civilized countries don't have a prison system and deal with cutting off limbs instead?

Ironically given you have the death penalty you do more "cutting off limbs" than we do.

I think its great, I enjoy having foreign people in my courses, in fact I tend to get along with them better than most Americans. I am not sure statistically but I know quite a bit of my first graduating class stayed in the US. I know one became an art director up at Leo Burnett.

We can do a great deal of "brain drain" from the rest of the world by attracting foreign kids to our colleges, the alternative is that they stay in their home countries and we don't get a chance at all at keeping them here.

Also agreed, having good Universities is definitely a good thing. They do seem to be a bit expensive in the US though.

[kavika411]

Was apparently a suicide:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jbzG_BlkG2Hfc818EPRRn1bBlP6gD9C631A81

EDIT:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2009/11/police-say-kentucky-census-workers-bizarre-death-was-a-suicide/1

[Lyle]

Was apparently a suicideSorry, but that doesn't fit the script.

[mactastic]

Wow... that's just messed up, much in the same way as finding out that someone who claimed to have been raped was lying about the whole thing.

Not only do you hurt those you falsely accuse; you increase the chance that the next time it happens for real, people will look with a much more skeptical eye on an actual victim.

[Zombie Acorn]

I know people who have tattooed their own chest, its not that hard.

Oh god, don't tell me you're going to try to slant this as being as anything not a hate crime are you?

The changes of that are so low. And again, just because you know some savant that did it, doesn't make it easy.

:D

[abijnk]

Sorry, but that doesn't fit the script.

Did you read the articles at all?

[Lyle]

Did you read the articles at all?Are you talking about the so-called "news" articles where the "authorities" claim that it was a suicide and not a hate-crime? That just means they're in on it too.

[abijnk]

Are you talking about the so-called "news" articles where the "authorities" claim that it was a suicide and not a hate-crime? That just means they're in on it too.

Oh, you and Tesselator are friends. Sorry, i didn't know. Carry on.

[kavika411]

Are you talking about the so-called "news" articles where the "authorities" claim that it was a suicide and not a hate-crime? That just means they're in on it too.

I don't ask this rhetorically; are you serious?

[Lyle]

I don't ask this rhetorically; are you serious?No, just poking fun.

[nbs2]

I don't ask this rhetorically; are you serious?

NWO, baby.

[Lyle]

NWO, baby.Finally, someone who gets it!

But seriously, reading back over the first few pages of this thread, a lot of people were quick to jump to conclusions about the responsible parties. The actual conclusion of this case seriously messes up their view of the world, hence my comment about this outcome not fitting the script.

[abijnk]

Finally, someone who gets it!

But seriously, reading back over the first few pages of this thread, a lot of people were quick to jump to conclusions about the responsible parties. The actual conclusion of this case seriously mess up their view of the world, hence my comment about this outcome not fitting the script.

I got it, too. ;) I guess you haven't been in any of the threads with Tess, he's our resident NWO expert. :)

Quite a few members were vindicated here. Congrats to them for calling it...

[Shivetya]

I got it, too. ;) I guess you haven't been in any of the threads with Tess, he's our resident NWO expert. :)

Quite a few members were vindicated here. Congrats to them for calling it...

Damnit, I was hoping to have a tin foil hat party.