Assuming they cant JB the 3.1 3Gs firmware.. and beyond.. [Archive]

bbplayer5

Sep 28, 2009, 12:05 PM

Its been like 3 weeks... impatient much?

What are you dying to have in 3.1 that you can't have in 3.0.x?

Im not specifically talking about 3.0.1 (which I am still on). Im talking about future updates... like 4.0 etc.. Not having background processes is a big deal. This sandbox thing doesnt work... Who cares if it drains the battery faster... at least with another phone id have the option of buying another battery! Beejive with backgrounder enabled.. DESTROYS the battery. On a BB, this is NOT the case.

NSK123

Sep 28, 2009, 12:37 PM

Why would you run Beejive with backgrounder? Push notification works very well so there's no need to do that. and btw you can easily connect an external battery pack to the iphone whenever needed, I don't understand why everyone is so obsessed with having a removable battery, it's dumb and you end up with a bunch of loose parts if you drop the phone, Ever tried dropping a nokia phone? good luck trying to reassembling it.

If jailbreaking will get eliminated in the future then I'm selling my iphone.
It's just a huge dealbreaker, I can't live without cydia apps like SBSettings, Backgrounder, Inspell, MyWi, LockInfo and just general themes.

Yes the sandbox thing is getting stupid and apple isn't doing enough to improve the software on the iphone, instead they just try to sell us the stupid updates as "features". Apple should really get off their as-ses and give us more options... I mean it's been 2 years since the first iphone and you still can't Disable the friggin notification bubbles for call, sms etc.. I mean wtf? I'm forced to use the popup blocker app from cydia to do something so simple...

Warbrain

Sep 28, 2009, 12:49 PM

I don't think you'd see as many people getting so upset as to ditch their iPhone as you would have before. There aren't many good reasons to jailbreak if you're new to it and even I, who had been jailbreaking for over a year now, just don't even care.

STEVESKI07

Sep 28, 2009, 01:01 PM

I would sell my iphone and pick up a blackberry in a heart beat if for whatever reason my phone was no longer able to be jailbroken. The only positive the iphone has over blackberry in my mind is the advanced App Store. Eventually blackberry will get enough apps to make it somewhat comparable (they can leave out the 10,000 fart apps). The only other positive I can think of is Safari. No other mobile browser can compare. Besides those 2 things, a blackberry is much better in my eyes (assuming I can't jailbreak).

darngooddesign

Sep 28, 2009, 01:41 PM

... at least with another phone id have the option of buying another battery!

I have two extra batteries for mine, one is 1200mha and the other 5400mha. Both are pretty small.

So what was your point again?

lionheartednyhc

Sep 28, 2009, 02:27 PM

If i ever do lose JB, I will get another phone. The stock iphone sucks.

dhlizard

Sep 28, 2009, 03:03 PM

I have been on JB 3.0.1 since the day it came out, I am getting tired of the wait to JB 3.1 on 3G[S].

You are anxious for nothing.

I went from 3.0 to 3.1 and there isn't any functional positive difference.

In other words, all the time I wasted re-doing the JB and re-customizing the phone was a waste of time.

bbplayer5

Sep 28, 2009, 03:12 PM

I have two extra batteries for mine, one is 1200mha and the other 5400mha. Both are pretty small.

So what was your point again?

Ya in a nice huge ugly external contraption. Fun!

TSX

Sep 28, 2009, 04:29 PM

I think i know whats taking so long they are trying to come up with a way to JB it without having to stick it in DFU mode. BTW 3gen 3.1 ipod has been JB already.

bruinsrme

Sep 28, 2009, 04:40 PM

There really isn't an app I can't live with.
What I do not want is a $100 bill every month for a phone I don't enjoy looking at. I don't understand why Apple want to keep the iphone so locked down.

darngooddesign

Sep 28, 2009, 04:42 PM

Ya in a nice huge ugly external contraption. Fun!

Not really sure which ugly contraption you are talking about, but mine is twice the size of a pack of DoubleMint and looks good. Plug the phone in, charge it and unplug.

Far better than some creaky removable battery.

zwaldowski

Sep 28, 2009, 05:35 PM

If jailbreaking iPhone OS ever stops, I can only hope that the efforts to port Android & Linux to the iPhone are doubled or tripled. Otherwise, I'll pick up the first AT&T 3G-compatible Android phone I can get my hands on.

hchavarria

Sep 28, 2009, 06:37 PM

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A400 Safari/528.16)

I would leave the iPhone in a heartbeat. Heck i'm concidering it with the upcoming release of the TP2 for AT&T.

aleni

Sep 28, 2009, 08:37 PM

IMHO, the non jailbroken iphone is still much better than a blackberry. it's just plain stupid to sell iphone and move to BB because the iphone can't no longer be jailbroken. try playing sims 3 on the BB. it just plain sucks with its crapball tracking. don't like playing games? hoe about browsing with BB. nice! LOL.

Vegastouch

Sep 29, 2009, 02:04 AM

I have been on JB 3.0.1 since the day it came out, I am getting tired of the wait to JB 3.1 on 3G[S].

What do you mean your tired of waiting?
You think there is going to be this huge upgrade with 3.1?

Whats more important? Having a jailbreak or upgrading to be with the Jones'?

Id stay at 3.0.1 even if they were up to 4.0 if there was no way to JB.

JUSTQUAN

Sep 29, 2009, 02:48 AM

well on topic i would considering finding another device. i like the whole design and set-up of the iphone. but it is very restricted with the apps people want and what apple think people should have. so being the rebel i would prefer a jailbroken iphone and if i couldnt have it that way i would consider something else.

thabronx31

Sep 29, 2009, 07:08 AM

If they can't unlock it my GS' resale value just skyrocketed.

You d@mn skippee!!!!!!!:cool:

ignus graius

Sep 29, 2009, 01:05 PM

Its been like 3 weeks... impatient much?

What are you dying to have in 3.1 that you can't have in 3.0.x?

Until now there has been the reassurance that if you install a package that screws up your phone, you could always restore and start over. Right now, I have a jailbroken 3GS running 3.0.1. If I install something that causes a problem, I'd be forced to upgrade to 3.1 when I go to restore. I doubt I'll be able to stay at 3.0.1 indefinitely... I've always had to restore at one point or another for some reason.

bbplayer5

Sep 29, 2009, 01:20 PM

Until now there has been the reassurance that if you install a package that screws up your phone, you could always restore and start over. Right now, I have a jailbroken 3GS running 3.0.1. If I install something that causes a problem, I'd be forced to upgrade to 3.1 when I go to restore. I doubt I'll be able to stay at 3.0.1 indefinitely... I've always had to restore at one point or another for some reason.

Thats not true. You can option restore and pick your 3.0.1 firmware file.

fuzion11

Sep 29, 2009, 01:46 PM

Wonder if the devs are just going to wait until 3.2 or not?

STEVESKI07

Sep 29, 2009, 01:51 PM

Wonder if the devs are just going to wait until 3.2 or not?

Why would they do that? There is already a JB out for 3.1 for the 2g and 3g. Besides, there is no news about 3.2, so who knows when that would ever be.

fuzion11

Sep 29, 2009, 02:00 PM

Why would they do that? There is already a JB out for 3.1 for the 2g and 3g. Besides, there is no news about 3.2, so who knows when that would ever be.

true that, you're right.

JPIndustrie

Sep 29, 2009, 03:03 PM

You know, I just sit back and laugh about this stuff. As I bet Steve Jobs does. Especially with empty threats like this:

If i ever do lose JB, I will get another phone. The stock iphone sucks.

Really. You're really going to get another phone. Which phone? A Pre? Because the Pre has such a vibrant hacking and underground development community with plenty of homebrew apps that do so many things. :rolleyes:

You already have the best phone, but it is perfectly within Apple's right to lock it down. Don't like it? Get a Windows Mobile phone. And why are you guys complaining? You got most of it for free.

TSX

Sep 29, 2009, 03:03 PM

Why would they do that? There is already a JB out for 3.1 for the 2g and 3g. Besides, there is no news about 3.2, so who knows when that would ever be.

Because that's what they had planned to do when 3.0 came out. They were originally going to wait till 3.1 to release 3.0 JB, but that got messed up when purplera1n was released so the dev team decided to release redsnow.

But as far as I know they are working on a way to JB without sticking it in dfu mode, and just using recovery.

ignus graius

Sep 29, 2009, 03:10 PM

Thats not true. You can option restore and pick your 3.0.1 firmware file.

Try it.

sapporobaby

Sep 29, 2009, 03:29 PM

I have been on JB 3.0.1 since the day it came out, I am getting tired of the wait to JB 3.1 on 3G[S].

Tired of waiting? Where can your JB solution be found? Who are you to demand that a jailbreak be found and considering it is free. You need to get a life dude and try not to be a massive (fill in the blank).

Mercury7

Sep 29, 2009, 04:43 PM

I normally would not care about waiting for 3.1 or 3.2 but there is something about this update that is making it impossible to buy some of the new applications, I tried to buy both snapture and a new application called zoom lens for the camera and you are not allowed to buy either one from the apple store without upgrading to 3.1 first.

I like being jailbroken but it bothers me to have applications out there that I want to buy and can't. hopefully they will get it figured out soon.

redman042

Sep 29, 2009, 05:41 PM

There sure is a lot of silly talk going on in this thread.

OS 3.1 has some serious flaws, freezing and so forth. Check out some of the threads on the main forum and you'll see what I'm talking about. So what's the rush from 3.0 to 3.1, really? I'll stick with 3.0 and my j/b and wait patiently for the next jailbreak to take me to 3.1.1 (after Apple fixes the bugs with 3.1 and dev team releases redsn0w). I just don't get all the bellyaching about having to wait a few weeks for a minor update to the OS.

And for those who keep threatening to switch to a Blackberry, I ask "are you SURE?". I mean, there's nothing wrong with a Blackberry, but I sure can't imagine going back to a Blackberry after enjoying the iPhone for a while. There's no comparison in my mind. The iPhone's appeal is not just about fart apps and other useless junk. The iPhone has a huge number of great and very useful apps with power and polish that you'll NEVER see on a Blackberry app, because, quite simply, the Blackberry can't do it. Their developer tools are rudimentary, the OS is hard to work with, and the hardware lacks the horsepower that the iPhone has. And while the Blackberry can multitask, it doesn't take much to bring the phone to its knees.

I really value the few j/b apps that I have (backgrounder, Intelliscreen, etc.), but if I lost all of it, I'd still choose an iPhone over any other phone.

WPB2

Sep 30, 2009, 08:25 AM

Tired of waiting? Where can your JB solution be found? Who are you to demand that a jailbreak be found and considering it is free. You need to get a life dude and try not to be a massive (fill in the blank).

If there is no jailbreak for the 3gs then it will cut into the profits for the hack developers. Jailbreaking is free, but the devs make their money off advertisments. I also paid 29.00 for PDAnet, which I can't keep unless there is a JB for 3.1, and beyond. So I am rightly so demanding a JB for 3.1 and beyond.

You don't be such a massive (idot)

ocdb

Sep 30, 2009, 08:38 AM

I had to comment on this one, If I can't longer JB I will get rid off this Ijunk with the quickness..

darngooddesign

Sep 30, 2009, 08:49 AM

I had to comment on this one, If I can't longer JB I will get rid off this Ijunk with the quickness..

The quickness of what?

STEVESKI07

Sep 30, 2009, 08:57 AM

The quickness of what?

He's just saying he would get rid of it right away. I agree with him too. To me, multitasking is a very important feature for my phone and I couldn't do without it. I'd give up all the apps and the great design of the phone to get one that could perform how I needed it to.

Chris.L

Sep 30, 2009, 09:05 AM

Thats not true. You can option restore and pick your 3.0.1 firmware file.

No you can't. Not on the 3GS. Not unless you have registered the required files on Saurik's activation server

uberamd

Sep 30, 2009, 09:05 AM

Im not specifically talking about 3.0.1 (which I am still on). Im talking about future updates... like 4.0 etc.. Not having background processes is a big deal. This sandbox thing doesnt work... Who cares if it drains the battery faster... at least with another phone id have the option of buying another battery! Beejive with backgrounder enabled.. DESTROYS the battery. On a BB, this is NOT the case.

You like backgrounding, and all that customization flexibility? Go to Android. Get yourself an Android G1, or G2 and background to your hearts content. Never mind the fact that backgrounding on that device grinds it to a halt, and the battery won't even last you a work day before its blinking red.

All this hubbub over backgrounding is stilly, there are plenty of phones that can do it so if it is THAT important, switch. Get Android... blackberry... or whatever else. I didn't buy my 2 wheel drive car expecting it to have 4 wheel drive, did you?

STEVESKI07

Sep 30, 2009, 09:16 AM

You like backgrounding, and all that customization flexibility? Go to Android. Get yourself an Android G1, or G2 and background to your hearts content. Never mind the fact that backgrounding on that device grinds it to a halt, and the battery won't even last you a work day before its blinking red.

All this hubbub over backgrounding is stilly, there are plenty of phones that can do it so if it is THAT important, switch. Get Android... blackberry... or whatever else. I didn't buy my 2 wheel drive car expecting it to have 4 wheel drive, did you?

I don't think it's that silly. I wouldn't have bought an iPhone in the first place if I didn't know about jailbreaking and backgrounder. I'm not complaining about anything. All I'm saying is that if Apple takes away jailbreaking then this phone doesn't suit me anymore and I'm leaving. Me jailbreaking my phone doesn't do Apple any harm. In fact, me jailbreaking is the only thing that got me to give Apple any money in the first place.

hchavarria

Sep 30, 2009, 09:22 AM

You like backgrounding, and all that customization flexibility? Go to Android. Get yourself an Android G1, or G2 and background to your hearts content. Never mind the fact that backgrounding on that device grinds it to a halt, and the battery won't even last you a work day before its blinking red.

All this hubbub over backgrounding is stilly, there are plenty of phones that can do it so if it is THAT important, switch. Get Android... blackberry... or whatever else. I didn't buy my 2 wheel drive car expecting it to have 4 wheel drive, did you?

You do realize that companies make improvements based on customer needs. As far as android...let's just say it has a long way to go. And as far as battery consumption my iPhone doesn't last me a full working day now nor has my 2g or 3g. To me the only thing the iPhone has over a blackberry or windows phone is the graphics for games hence MY need to jailbreak to bring backgrounder.

uberamd

Sep 30, 2009, 09:25 AM

You do realize that companies make improvements based on customer needs. As far as android...let's just say it has a long way to go. And as far as battery consumption my iPhone doesn't last me a full working day now nor has my 2g or 3g. To me the only thing the iPhone has over a blackberry or windows phone is the graphics for games hence MY need to jailbreak to bring backgrounder.

Goodness, why are you backgrounding if it has such an impact on your battery life? Is playing Pandora while web browsing really that important to drain your battery to the point where it doesn't last you a full working day?

Also realize when I say working day I am talking 9 hours (7 AM to 4). My G1 wouldn't last me 9 hours under normal use (wifi, location service, etc). Android itself is a fine OS, but its thrown on crap hardware that is not capable of running it properly. I have always felt Android on the 3GS would fly.

hchavarria

Sep 30, 2009, 09:33 AM

Goodness, why are you backgrounding if it has such an impact on your battery life? Is playing Pandora while web browsing really that important to drain your battery to the point where it doesn't last you a full working day?

Also realize when I say working day I am talking 9 hours (7 AM to 4). My G1 wouldn't last me 9 hours under normal use (wifi, location service, etc). Android itself is a fine OS, but its thrown on crap hardware that is not capable of running it properly. I have always felt Android on the 3GS would fly.

It never lasted a full working day (8 am - 5:30 pm) before it was dead. Pandora has nothing to do with it, us business users have a higher need. Example: I need to RDP into my office PC or Server over our VPN and realize I need some info in my notes or email or maybe I got a call without backgrounder I need to exit the RDP app to go to mail, notes, or answer the call now I need to go back into RDP relogin to the machine, then I get another call...gets real annoying. Besides what good is Pandora if I can't do anything else?

uberamd

Sep 30, 2009, 09:43 AM

It never lasted a full working day (8 am - 5:30 pm) before it was dead. Pandora has nothing to do with it, us business users have a higher need. Example: I need to RDP into my office PC or Server over our VPN and realize I need some info in my notes or email or maybe I got a call without backgrounder I need to exit the RDP app to go to mail, notes, or answer the call now I need to go back into RDP relogin to the machine, then I get another call...gets real annoying. Besides what good is Pandora if I can't do anything else?

I do IT work, so I understand the importance of the iPhone. Heck, I carry that with me and it has 99% of the functionality I need on the go so I no longer need to carry a laptop between the server room and my desk, etc. However even though I use my phone heavily during the day, when I get home at 5 my battery still had 30% left, at least. I am also a college student so I surf the web a lot on my phone, text a lot, etc and the battery life still impresses me on my 2G, 3G and now 3GS.

Defective devices maybe?

hchavarria

Sep 30, 2009, 12:32 PM

I do IT work, so I understand the importance of the iPhone. Heck, I carry that with me and it has 99% of the functionality I need on the go so I no longer need to carry a laptop between the server room and my desk, etc. However even though I use my phone heavily during the day, when I get home at 5 my battery still had 30% left, at least. I am also a college student so I surf the web a lot on my phone, text a lot, etc and the battery life still impresses me on my 2G, 3G and now 3GS.

Defective devices maybe?

Maybe defective I don't know but with the risk of loosing the jailbreak if I change the phone I prefer having to charge throughout the day...Perfect example, I took the phone off the charger today at 8:10 a.m. and it is now 12:32 and I have 29% batter left. I also receive large amounts of emails so maybe that, between phone calls, VPN, browsing the net, I can see why I drain my battery quickly. I always used Windows Mobile devices because of the ability to VPN, RDP, VNC, and Telnet and I always carried an extra battery for my devices so if I ran out of battery it would be a quick fix. With this said I am used to not having phones which last full days, the reason why I switched (the only reason) is that the iphone allows me to integrate some personal things into the mix such as gaming which i believe it has the best gaming for phones. Although I don't often play games on the phones I do ocassionaly, and since I have always been able to jailbreak and use backgrounder it has mitigated some of the things I miss from the Windows Mobile platform. If I didn't have the ability to jailbreak or if I had to swap phones and loose my jailbreak I would prefer to go back to the Windows Mobile platform. The only two advantages (for me personally) that I see about the iPhone over the Windows Mobile platform is the gaming graphics and Safari, although Opera for Windows Mobile does a good enough job for me.

redman042

Sep 30, 2009, 02:28 PM

If jailbreaking is important to you, simply DO NOT UPDATE your software until a jailbreak is available for it. It's that simple.

Right now, you can have OS 3.0.1 on any iPhone and jailbreak it with no problems. 3.0.1 is a great version of this OS. It has copy/paste, MMS (with a manually-updated carrier file on AT&T), and everything else you could possibly want.

OS 3.1 only adds a few things, like saving edited video clips as new, and these additions are not that big of a deal. In fact, OS 3.1 has some crashing flaws. You're better off waiting for a better version anyway.

The rumors that the 3GS may be impossible to jailbreak make me nervous too. But I have faith that hackers can get around just about anything. Given the popularity of the iPhone, there are a LOT of hackers interested in continued jailbreaking of the iPhone.

They may skip a few iterations of the OS however. Don't expect a jailbreak with every single update of the OS.

nfl46

Sep 30, 2009, 02:52 PM

I may get rid of my iPhone 3GS if we can't jailbreak 3.1. Seriously, it sucks w/o being able to jailbreak it. Usually they tell us, don't upgrade to the new OS...blah..blah..blah, but typically within a week or so we're able to jailbreak...dang, Apple really locked 3.1 down, I see.

mdwsta4

Sep 30, 2009, 04:29 PM

i agree that some people are making too big of a deal about it. i've been jailbreaking since you had to type in command prompts on the 1st gen. yeah, i love the customizability, but with apple's updates there has been less and less of a reason to JB (landscape, mms, copy/paste, etc).
my main reason now is winterboard simply because i don't like the way the stock icons/background look. and as much as i like things like sbsettings, yourtube, categories, and mobile scrobbler, they're things i could live without.
i'm sure one of these days apple will allow users to customize icons (although i'm sure you'll be forced to buy packaged themes), but there aren't many other options out there that do all the good things the iphone does.

waiting for the 3.1JB update as well, but see no reason to really get upset about it. what does it really add? the latest genius feature? woopie-doo. i've used the old genius feature maybe twice. 3.0 works just fine for me in the meantime.

upagainst

Sep 30, 2009, 04:30 PM

If jailbreaking is important to you, simply DO NOT UPDATE your software until a jailbreak is available for it. It's that simple.

Right now, you can have OS 3.0.1 on any iPhone and jailbreak it with no problems. 3.0.1 is a great version of this OS. It has copy/paste, MMS (with a manually-updated carrier file on AT&T), and everything else you could possibly want.

OS 3.1 only adds a few things, like saving edited video clips as new, and these additions are not that big of a deal. In fact, OS 3.1 has some crashing flaws. You're better off waiting for a better version anyway.
.

So would it be OK for me to JB my 3GS, I believe when I bought it last month it came with 3.0 and I have yet to update it.

redman042

Sep 30, 2009, 05:22 PM

So would it be OK for me to JB my 3GS, I believe when I bought it last month it came with 3.0 and I have yet to update it.

Yes. Piece of cake.

http://blog.iphone-dev.org/post/126908912/redsn0w-in-june

Amarq09

Sep 30, 2009, 07:24 PM

I'm still on 3.0 : )

redman042

Oct 1, 2009, 12:14 PM

The only two advantages (for me personally) that I see about the iPhone over the Windows Mobile platform is the gaming graphics and Safari, although Opera for Windows Mobile does a good enough job for me.

I used to be a WinMo user and I will NEVER go back, jailbreak or no jailbreak. The iPhone is much more for me than just the two advantages you listed. The entire user experience is about 20 times better.

Yeah, my WinMo phone backgrounded any time I wanted it to, and I could customize it to my heart's delight, but then why did I ultimately strip it back to the bare OS and just a few 3rd party mods?? I'll tell you why. The phone got incredibly laggy and unstable as hell. I couldn't even answer calls half the time.

I think that's the point many people miss when they talk about going to WinMo, Android, or Blackberry so they can have the freedom to mod and background apps. From what I know and have heard, none of those phones do this very well. They get laggy, music gets stuttery, and the OS starts falling apart.

It's rather odd that the one phone "not designed to background apps" does it so much better than the others, once you jailbreak (especially the 3GS).

crpercodani

Oct 1, 2009, 04:20 PM

I don't know about bb but Android was perfectly fine for me, I mean if your trying to run 4 or 5 resource hogging apps then yes it will bog down but the same can be said for even the almighty iPhone. Winmo does indeed suck and hopefully they fix some stuff with 6.5, most likely the real big changes will come next year with winmo 7. I switch sims from my G1 and iPhone every couple weeks because both phones are great, the G1's ram/rom does indeed suck but the keyboard and screen are really nice plus the ROM developers like Cyanogen and JAC make some really great improvements. Overall if I had to choose I would take the iPhone but only if jailbroken, when the Motorola Sholes/Tao/Droid comes out it might be a different story, a 3.7 capacitive screen, same processor as the 3GS, and well google it if you wanna know the rest.

Who cares about 3.1 jb though? 3.1 is laggy and seems to have tons of problems, I'll stay with 3.0 until a better FW comes.

leons

Oct 1, 2009, 04:31 PM

TheHeadFL

Oct 1, 2009, 05:45 PM

I once read what seemed to be informesd speculation on the development teams site that if the Iphone ever became un-jailbreakable, it would be likely that a hardware key/dongle/ROM from China would likely be developed that you could buy, plug into your Iphone, and jailbreak.

This refers to the fact that the 3GS is exploitable via the 24Kpwn exploit, similar to the iPod Touch 2G. The 24Kpwn is an exploit which uses a vulnerability in the boot rom, which is permanently in the phone. This gives them the ability to always release what is called a 'tethered' jailbreak, which you refer to here.

Most people would of course want there to be an untethered jailbreak, which implies continually finding holes in iBoot in each successive firmware release. This is required to give them the foot in the door and allow the other exploit to work. Otherwise iBoot will refuse to load the hacked firmware.

hchavarria

Oct 1, 2009, 06:46 PM

I used to be a WinMo user and I will NEVER go back, jailbreak or no jailbreak. The iPhone is much more for me than just the two advantages you listed. The entire user experience is about 20 times better.

Yeah, my WinMo phone backgrounded any time I wanted it to, and I could customize it to my heart's delight, but then why did I ultimately strip it back to the bare OS and just a few 3rd party mods?? I'll tell you why. The phone got incredibly laggy and unstable as hell. I couldn't even answer calls half the time.

I think that's the point many people miss when they talk about going to WinMo, Android, or Blackberry so they can have the freedom to mod and background apps. From what I know and have heard, none of those phones do this very well. They get laggy, music gets stuttery, and the OS starts falling apart.

It's rather odd that the one phone "not designed to background apps" does it so much better than the others, once you jailbreak (especially the 3GS).

There is a phone for everyone and as much as I like the iPhone I really liked and had a good experience with Winmo too. To me they both are great devices and you just have to find and meet your needs.