Is Obama following Marxist theory?

[Wotan31]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/6241196/Andy-Williams-accuses-Barack-Obama-of-following-Marxist-theory.html

"Don't like him at all," he said, "I think he wants to create a socialist country. The people he associates with are very Left-wing. One is registered as a Communist.
"Obama is following Marxist theory. He's taken over the banks and the car industry. He wants the country to fail."
Politicians, media personalities and conservative activists have accused the US president of espousing socialist ideas.

Andy Williams seems to think so, and he isn't the first to raise the question. What do you think?

[Eraserhead]

Andy Williams seems to think so, and he isn't the first to raise the question. What do you think?

Andy Williams may be appearing in the Telegraph, but he clearly doesn't understand what socialism really means.

[Peterkro]

No, next question.


Je suis marxiste, tendance Groucho

[rdowns]

This crap again. You've got to be kidding me.

[aquajet]

I would say that's way off the Marx.

[leekohler]

Christ- here we go again with the wackos. :rolleyes:

[gauchogolfer]

"Some say that Wotan31 is a right-wing nutjob who intends to put up a 100 foot wall around the United States and install laser beams to incinerate anyone who tries to climb it."

There, it's been on the internet, and somebody said it, so now we can all reference it in the future as a reputable source.

Now none of you will be the 'first to raise the question' either, so feel free to pile on.

[Shivetya]

No, he is a fascist.

He might use words to appeal to certain Marxist elements; even friends; but his actions have been anything but friendly to the working class. The reworkings of Wall Street have been done by insiders he has on his team and the reorganizations of GM/Chrysler reward Wall Street and Union bossed while shorting retirees and line workers, let alone the guys who worked at the dealerships.

If anything, he has taken the direct route of funneling money into Wall Street and their like to shore up support for his party and the elite that back them. What used to be derided about the Trickle Down Economics of Reagan Obama has distilled down to just handing them the money to begin with.

He is really infatuated with himself which puts him in good company with Chavez. He just cannot seem to get enough face time. He seems obviously annoyed with other foreign leaders who refuse to let him have the limelight.

[yg17]

When I saw the thread title on the forum homepage in recent posts, it didn't have the username of the person who started the thread, but I guessed and got it right :rolleyes:

[Shivetya]

"Some say that Wotan31 is a right-wing nutjob who intends to put up a 100 foot wall around the United States and install laser beams to incinerate anyone who tries to climb it."

No good plan involving lasers forgets the sharks, hence I can say that your making that up. Plus there ain't enough water to fill it up :P

[leekohler]

No, he is a fascist.

He might use words to appeal to certain Marxist elements; even friends; but his actions have been anything but friendly to the working class. The reworkings of Wall Street have been done by insiders he has on his team and the reorganizations of GM/Chrysler reward Wall Street and Union bossed while shorting retirees and line workers, let alone the guys who worked at the dealerships.

If anything, he has taken the direct route of funneling money into Wall Street and their like to shore up support for his party and the elite that back them. What used to be derided about the Trickle Down Economics of Reagan Obama has distilled down to just handing them the money to begin with.

He is really infatuated with himself which puts him in good company with Chavez. He just cannot seem to get enough face time. He seems obviously annoyed with other foreign leaders who refuse to let him have the limelight.

Put down the coffee and go grab a nice shot of bourbon. Seriously.

[iBlue]

http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/megarolleyes2.gif

[iShater]

If I answer "yes", would this stop these threads? :confused:

[AP_piano295]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/6241196/Andy-Williams-accuses-Barack-Obama-of-following-Marxist-theory.html



Andy Williams seems to think so, and he isn't the first to raise the question. What do you think?

crazy people are cute :p

[yg17]

No good plan involving lasers forgets the sharks, hence I can say that your making that up. Plus there ain't enough water to fill it up :P

Frickin sharks with frickin laser beams on their frickin heads?

[Unspoken Demise]

crazy people are cute :p

In a crazy sort of way.

[obeygiant]

Andy Williams may be appearing in the Telegraph, but he clearly doesn't understand what socialism really means.

LOL, even those who call themselves "socialists" can't even agree on what that means.

[Gelfin]

So, mister Williams, let's talk a bit about this "Santa" character you're so fond of singing about. The one who uses an ideologically-driven communal army of racially homogenous unpaid workers in an annual attempt to undermine the American toy industry, then dresses up in a red suit (there's a giveaway!) and promotes a shameless agenda of redistributing wealth to promote equality of outcome amongst only those children who follow a moral standard for which he has set himself up as the sole arbiter.

This "Santa," sir, whose coming you proudly and enthusiastically herald each year, is a Communist. He wants Christmas to fail, and you, sir, are his crooning red toady. For shame.

[Rt&Dzine]

If Andy Williams thinks so. But maybe we should ask Barry Manilow just to be sure.

[Gelfin]

If Andy Williams thinks so. But maybe we should ask Barry Manilow just to be sure.

Not Manilow. He's a Stalinist. The number who have suffered at his hands clearly falls in the category of "a statistic."

[.Andy]

http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/megarolleyes2.gif
This can't be quoted enough in this thread.

No, he is a fascist.

He might use words to appeal to certain Marxist elements; even friends; but his actions have been anything but friendly to the working class. The reworkings of Wall Street have been done by insiders he has on his team and the reorganizations of GM/Chrysler reward Wall Street and Union bossed while shorting retirees and line workers, let alone the guys who worked at the dealerships.

If anything, he has taken the direct route of funneling money into Wall Street and their like to shore up support for his party and the elite that back them. What used to be derided about the Trickle Down Economics of Reagan Obama has distilled down to just handing them the money to begin with.

He is really infatuated with himself which puts him in good company with Chavez. He just cannot seem to get enough face time. He seems obviously annoyed with other foreign leaders who refuse to let him have the limelight.
This pretty much just a pavlovian response now.

[Zombie Acorn]

Obama doesn't have time to be a socialist, we have cleanup on aisle 1-42 from the last administration to deal with first. Aside from health care, Guantanamo, missile shield, student loans, and some issues with the credit industry I don't think Bush's third term would be much different thus far.

[skunk]

Good Grief! Why would anybody ask or care what Andy frigging Williams thinks about anything?

[Eraserhead]

Good Grief! Why would anybody ask or care what Andy frigging Williams thinks about anything?

Its in the celebrity section, we're supposed to care what they think about the world ;) :p.

[rdowns]

Good Grief! Why would anybody ask or care what Andy frigging Williams thinks about anything?


Well, Ronald Reagan declared him a "national treasure". :D

[Desertrat]

I don't see what's not factual about what Shivetya said.

Obama/Congress has extended government power over the auto industry and banking, and is trying to do so with medicine. Dunno if that's Marxism, but it's not good for the long-term "good of the nation"--so it doesn't matter if it's Marxism or not. And, certainly, he and his advisors for monetary policy are setting us up for long-term misery as to both consumer price inflation and a loss of world status on the financial front.

We're headed to a similar situation to that of the USSR of the 1980s: A lousy economy with a hellacious military. That, historically, has been a key ingredient to war.

[leekohler]

I don't see what's not factual about what Shivetya said.

Obama/Congress has extended government power over the auto industry and banking, and is trying to do so with medicine. Dunno if that's Marxism, but it's not good for the long-term "good of the nation"--so it doesn't matter if it's Marxism or not.

Uhh...it was Bush who started that.

[.Andy]

I don't see what's not factual about what Shivetya said.
So you think Obama is a fascist leader and is equivalent to Chavez?

Obama/Congress has extended government power over the auto industry and banking, and is trying to do so with medicine. Dunno if that's Marxism, but it's not good for the long-term "good of the nation"
And still you try with this. Countries that have universal healthcare have better health outcomes for their population period. Your ideology doesn't work when it comes to medicine.

[skunk]

So, Marxist or Fascist, which is he? I'm confused. Perhaps someone could explain which parts of Marxist (or Fascist) Theory President Obama is following.

[Thomas Veil]

What a waste of electrons this thread is.

[NT1440]

So, Marxist or Fascist, which is he? I'm confused. Perhaps someone could explain which parts of Marxist (or Fascist) Theory President Obama is following.

Its that one part, you know, which like, uhhhhh, doesn't fit with what those other guys want.

Why bother asking skunk? You know they have no understanding of what these words actually mean. As long as they can throw mud theyre happy as pigs in ****.

[cjmillsnun]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/6241196/Andy-Williams-accuses-Barack-Obama-of-following-Marxist-theory.html



Andy Williams seems to think so, and he isn't the first to raise the question. What do you think?

Please look for a less biased newspaper to find your views. By quoting the Torygraph, you may as well have quoted Fox News.

Try the Guardian or Independent for an unbiased view. Seriously the only newspaper that goes further right wing in this country (the UK) is the Daily Mail.

Also what is wrong with a little socialism. As long as it doesn't go to extremes you can have a prosperous country with universal healthcare, and Bush was the one who started with the bailouts.

[Eraserhead]

Please look for a less biased newspaper to find your views. By quoting the Torygraph, you may as well have quoted Fox News.

Try the Guardian or Independent for an unbiased view. Seriously the only newspaper that goes further right wing in this country (the UK) is the Daily Mail.

That really isn't fair. Fox News makes the Daily Mail look moderate. And the Guardian/Independent may be fairly centrist but they are left of centre.

[BoyBach]

Presumably Mr. Williams has a new album out soon and is need of some publicity? (http://www.sonybmgmusic.co.uk/releases/1282/) :rolleyes:

Or he's confused?

196746

[Prof.]

I wish I could go to an alternate reality where McCain won the election so I can say crazy, untrue things about him. Just like the republicans are saying about Obama.

[Thomas Veil]

I wish I could go to an alternate reality where McCain won the election so I can say crazy, untrue things about him. Just like the republicans are saying about Obama.Not really, do you? Do you want to become them? Act as hatefully as they do?

BTW, with the public option on life support and teabaggers making all manner of idiotic claims, I already feel like I'm living in an alternate reality.

[Prof.]

Not really, do you? Do you want to become them? Act as hatefully as they do?
Of course not! Unlike the GOP, I am civilized and have a brain.

[Zombie Acorn]

Of course not! Unlike the GOP, I am civilized and have a brain.

If the dems had a brain they would have united their party to get a health bill passed instead of listening to insurance lobbyists. More of the same.

[Gelfin]

I wish I could go to an alternate reality where McCain won the election so I can say crazy, untrue things about him. Just like the republicans are saying about Obama.

If saying crazy, untrue things about John McCain is your dream, well, you may be too young to remember, but you sort of lived in that reality. We called it the 2000 Primaries.

[thejadedmonkey]

If the dems had a brain they would have united their party to get a health bill passed instead of listening to insurance lobbyists. More of the same.

Here here!

All of the reasons I've heard against a public option are as follows:
It'll raise taxes
it'll put small businesses out of business
it's manditory, and I don't want to pay twice
I already have health coverage from the Vet hospitals, who cares, focus on something else


the dems just need to get their collective donkeys together and force it through. That's what they did with Social Security and Medicare!

[NT1440]

If the dems had a brain they would have united their party to get a health bill passed instead of listening to insurance lobbyists. More of the same.

You mean instead of trying to compromise in the name of bipartisan ship right?

No but your right, after it became clear the GOP had/has no interest in the well being of the people of this country, the dems should have just said screw it and passed what they wanted. Its sad that so many of our politicians are owned by lobbyists, what Baucus put out is inexcusable and I REALLY hope it costs him his job. What a jackass.

[Wotan31]

If Andy Williams thinks so. But maybe we should ask Barry Manilow just to be sure.
You win! Of course nobody gives a crap what musicians and actors think about politics. Those that are very vocal on the subject need to **** and get back to their singing and acting. That goes for Andy Williams too.

Hook line and sinker, the rest of you are just too predictable. :D

[Desertrat]

Inasmuch as fascism is a case of, "You own it, but we'll tell you how you can run it," yeah, Obama is another in a fairly long line of fascists.

Which comes back to my oft-commented view that it's less the labels of "fascism" or "socialism" which apply, but rather "statism": The idea that the central government should be the be-all/end-all of power. I disagree with his view that all goodies should flow from your tax dollars.

Marx, as was Malthus, was looking backwards, not knowing what was going on in the world. Neither foresaw what would be brought about, what could be created, by the advent of interchangeable parts and cheap energy. The end of cheap energy may well have us back thinking about what Malthus said, of course. But I doubt that statism can control the future in any sort of manner which allows for personal decisions about what's best for any individual. It sure ain't working worth a hoot for economics.

Nope. Looks to me that Obama's tenure will prove out to be a worse failure than the Peanut Farmer's.

Interesting times...

'Rat

[daflake]

How does Marxism equate to socialism? I thought his ideology was communism? Biggest problem with all these people spouting crap is that they don't even know what "socialism", or for matter "communism" is. :rolleyes:

I'm not a huge Obama right now, but both the left and right are full of idiots.

[Counterfit]

Good Grief! Why would anybody ask or care what Andy frigging Williams thinks about anything?

Well, they would probably be the same people feel bad for Craig T. Nelson because no one helped him out when he was on welfare and food stamps. :rolleyes:

[Wotan31]

Not really, do you? Do you want to become them? Act as hatefully as they do?
Of course not! Unlike the GOP, I am civilized and have a brain.
Bwahahahaha!!! This is beautiful, I almost want to put it in my sig. The intolerance and hypocrisy of the left never ceases to amaze. Hahahahahaha!!! :D

[macfan881]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/6241196/Andy-Williams-accuses-Barack-Obama-of-following-Marxist-theory.html



Andy Williams seems to think so, and he isn't the first to raise the question. What do you think?
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/neo881/picard-facepalm.jpg

[leekohler]

Inasmuch as fascism is a case of, "You own it, but we'll tell you how you can run it," yeah, Obama is another in a fairly long line of fascists.

Which comes back to my oft-commented view that it's less the labels of "fascism" or "socialism" which apply, but rather "statism": The idea that the central government should be the be-all/end-all of power. I disagree with his view that all goodies should flow from your tax dollars.


That's not his view. When are you people going to live in reality? I'm serious. I can't deal with this ridiculousness. You know damn well that isn't true, but you keep saying it anyway. And if you do think it's true, then we really have nothing to talk about.

[Prof.]

If the dems had a brain they would have united their party to get a health bill passed instead of listening to insurance lobbyists. More of the same.
I agree. I'm extremely disappointed with the Dems. Like Bill Maher said:

Whenever the Dems are in power, they never get things done -- they never have a plan. When the Republicans are in power, they have a plan and get things done -- for better or worse, they get things done.

That's one of the reasons why I respect the Republican party. No matter how crazy or immoral [some of] their plans/laws are, they get things DONE!

[Zombie Acorn]

I agree. I'm extremely disappointed with the Dems. Like Bill Maher said:

Whenever the Dems are in power, they never get things done -- they never have a plan. When the Republicans are in power, they have a plan and get things done -- for better or worse, they get things done.

That's one of the reasons why I respect the Republican party. No matter how crazy or immoral [some of] their plans/laws are, they get things DONE!

I have to agree with Meher here also, unfortunately it landed us in Iraq, deep in debt, and usually surrounds destroying personal freedoms and/or religion/abortion.

[callmemike20]

So, Marxist or Fascist, which is he? I'm confused. Perhaps someone could explain which parts of Marxist (or Fascist) Theory President Obama is following.

He's not American. That's all that matters.

[.Andy]

This is a joke. I do believe Obama was born in America. I just believe he isn't American because of his hatred for US
It's pretty much just say anything you want at this point isn't it?

[leekohler]

He's not American. That's all that matters.

What the hell are you talking about? If you guys want to have honest dialogue, then you need to stop with this nonsense. Otherwise, don't bother.

[Unspoken Demise]

This is a joke. I do believe Obama was born in America.
Oh good, here I thought you were being ignorant.

I just believe he isn't American because of his hatred for US
Oh wait...

[daflake]

He's not American. That's all that matters.

And where do your relatives come from? :rolleyes:

[rdowns]

Bwahahahaha!!! This is beautiful, I almost want to put it in my sig. The intolerance and hypocrisy of the left never ceases to amaze. Hahahahahaha!!! :D


NObama: Keep the change.

Get Involved - Stop messing with marriage!

I loves me some

[Unspoken Demise]

I loves me some

Woah now R. Dont confuse the right with your cryptic messages.

[arkitect]

He's not American. That's all that matters.

Well, here ya go… I am sure you'll get along just fine with these creeps in the UK:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/the_p_word/newsid_10000000/newsid_10002000/10002087.stm

[Iscariot]

If the dems had a brain they would have united their party to get a health bill passed instead of listening to insurance lobbyists. More of the same.

"Hey Max Baucus, how much money have you received in donations from health insurance companies?"
http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/BLD/BLD024/hispanic-man-standing_~BLD045239.jpg

[Desertrat]

leekohler, re your Post #48: Govt. Goodies is danged sure the name of his game.

He's not disagreed with the homeloan takeover via Fannie Mae, et al; there's the Generous Motors deal, with your tax dollars paying off the UAW; the stimulus package with the spending going so far to Friends of Obama; the takeover of the banks, with the controls over you which will come in the future...He's not disagreed with the social transfer structure, nor ACORN's views thereof. And, of course, the medical thing with its multi-billion-dollars of cost each year.

No government bennies? It is to laugh--but for its being so tragic.

[leekohler]

leekohler, re your Post #48: Govt. Goodies is danged sure the name of his game.

He's not disagreed with the homeloan takeover via Fannie Mae, et al; there's the Generous Motors deal, with your tax dollars paying off the UAW; the stimulus package with the spending going so far to Friends of Obama; the takeover of the banks, with the controls over you which will come in the future...He's not disagreed with the social transfer structure, nor ACORN's views thereof. And, of course, the medical thing with its multi-billion-dollars of cost each year.

First of all, Bush "took over" the banks and auto companies. It is my understanding that once they pay back what they were loaned, they're free of any of the new government oversight put in place as a condition of the loans. And BTW- if we gave them money (the government IS us) then we damn well have the right to regulate their business until they've paid that money back. This is by no means a permanent situation. I'm tired of you guys acting like it is. It's disingenuous, and doesn't further productive discussion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/business/economy/31taxpayer.html?_r=1&ref=business

Secondly, ACORN is being investigated and will be dealt with. If Obama were protecting them, you'd have a point.

[zap2]

LOL, even those who call themselves "socialists" can't even agree on what that means.

Perhaps not exactly, but thats true for almost any political idea, that is, there are different degrees of it. But it does have a meaning. Socialist tend to support economic equality(through government action) while also supporting social freedoms.

[Evangelion]

Anyone who thinks Obama is a marxists, is a goddamned retard. Those people wouldn't know marxism if it bit them in the arse. And that includes the idiot at newsmax who said that there should be a military-coup in USA to "resolve the Obama-problem".

Is it just me, or are all right-wingers insane in USA?

[Evangelion]

Off-topic, but.... I find it hilarious that Wotan31 wants us to "Get Involved - Stop messing with marriage!". How about we "stop messing with marriage" by removing the government from it? Government has no place telling people who and how they should love. If someone feels that marriage is between man and woman, they have the right to pursue such marriage. But they should NOT have the right to dictate others who they can and can't love.

So Wotan, take your own advice and STOP MESSING WITH MARRIAGE!

[Pocket lint]

Off-topic, but.... I find it hilarious that Wotan31 wants us to "Get Involved - Stop messing with marriage!". How about we "stop messing with marriage" by removing the government from it? Government has no place telling people who and how they should love. If someone feels that marriage is between man and woman, they have the right to pursue such marriage. But they should NOT have the right to dictate others who they can and can't love.

So Wotan, take your own advice and STOP MESSING WITH MARRIAGE!

To be honest, I think it's rather ironic that Wotan (in the other thread) more than implies that he knows how the real world runs and everyone else have no clue, yet he obviously believe in some vindictive fairy tale being in the sky, as is evident from his "don't mess with marriage".

[leekohler]

Is it just me, or are all right-wingers insane in USA?

Not all, but enough of them are.

Off-topic, but.... I find it hilarious that Wotan31 wants us to "Get Involved - Stop messing with marriage!". How about we "stop messing with marriage" by removing the government from it? Government has no place telling people who and how they should love. If someone feels that marriage is between man and woman, they have the right to pursue such marriage. But they should NOT have the right to dictate others who they can and can't love.

So Wotan, take your own advice and STOP MESSING WITH MARRIAGE!

As with health care, the rest of the world has already shown us that equal marriage rights work. People like wotan simply don't like the facts because they go against his ideology. So they make up lies to scare people.

[Lord Blackadder]

The problem at the moment is that loudest voices attacking Obama are saying things like

He's not American. That's all that matters.

which are so obviously untrue that the person saying them is either

1. Totally ignorant of reality.

or

2. Willfully propagating falsehoods.

So at this point it really isn't much of a debate. These people are truly frightened of Obama, they think he is setting out to destroy their vision of what the US is and they will not listen to him or his administration and will oppose everything they attempt to do regardless of the substance of the issue.

**** 'em I say. These people are nuts...I see no reason to listen to them anymore so long as they keep spraying the lies and vitriol.

Oh, and more on-topic - the very fact that people call Obama a Marxist illustrates the fact that most Americans have no idea what the difference between Marxism and Capitalism is.

[yg17]

Oh, and more on-topic - the very fact that people call Obama a Marxist illustrates the fact that most Americans have no idea what the difference between Marxism and Capitalism is.

Of course not. They don't know what Marxism, socialism or communism really means, they just know they've been told it's bad and start calling Obama one or more of those.

It's like a young kid in elementary school who is just hearing curse words for the first time but doesn't actually know what they mean, but because he thinks it's cool to use them, he uses one and says something incredibly stupid like "I want to ******* the dog". He doesn't know the meaning of what he just said, he just knows he used a bad word and thinks he's cool.

[Lord Blackadder]

It's like a young kid in elementary school who is just hearing curse words for the first time but doesn't actually know what they mean...

Exactly. I recall kids referring to each other as "queer" in elementary school, long before any of us had any but the faintest idea about sexuality...but we knew it was bad to be queer, so we used it and dreaded being "queer". :rolleyes:

It's actually quite funny until you realize that millions of American voters never grow out of that phase.

[Evangelion]

The talks about Obama and socialism tells me quite clearly that large portion of Americans are brainwashed. They automatically believe that everything related so socialism is bad. But the truth is that there's plenty of socialism in USA as we speak. Stuff like public libraries, public schools, public roads, EPA, fire-department, police-department and so forth. Pure capitalism is about as impossible as pure communism is. Every single country has some socialism in them, USA included.

But it seems to me that Americans think that "socialism" is bad, in on itself. Even if it brought with it plenty of good things with very few drawbacks, it would still be bad because it's "socialism". And if some capitalistic principles brought with it only bad things, it would still be "good" since it would be "capitalism", and capitalism is "a good thing". It seems that Americans spend very little time discussing and thinking what various things mean, they just throw buzzwords around.

I have seen people complain that "the health-care reform is socialism!". Here's a suggestion: instead of opposing the reform because of some buzzword, how about opposing it based on facts? Just because something is "socialism" does not mean that it's bad. It would be bad if it made the healthcare worse and/or more expensive. But it's not bad merely because it's "socialism". But then again, asking for American right-wingers to actually think and discuss things is too much to ask....

And now the dumbest of the right-wingers have moved on from talking about "socialism" in to talking about "marxism", clearly indicating that they are utterly detached from reality and common sense. You want marxism? North-Korea might be a suitable candidate. Former East-Germany might be one as well. Or Soviet Union. USA under Obama (or anyone else for that matter) have very little in common with those countries, as far as economy is concerned.

Every time I feel that the American Right could not get any dumber, they pull an ace from their sleeve...

[iBlue]

The talks about Obama and socialism tells me quite clearly that large portion of Americans are brainwashed. They automatically believe that everything related so socialism is bad. But the truth is that there's plenty of socialism in USA as we speak. Stuff like public libraries, public schools, public roads, EPA, fire-department, police-department and so forth. Pure capitalism is about as impossible as pure communism is. Every single country has some socialism in them, USA included.

But it seems to me that Americans think that "socialism" is bad, in on itself. Even if it brought with it plenty of good things with very few drawbacks, it would still be bad because it's "socialism". And if some capitalistic principles brought with it only bad things, it would still be "good" since it would be "capitalism", and capitalism is "a good thing". It seems that Americans spend very little time discussing and thinking what various things mean, they just throw buzzwords around.

I have seen people complain that "the health-care reform is socialism!". Here's a suggestion: instead of opposing the reform because of some buzzword, how about opposing it based on facts? Just because something is "socialism" does not mean that it's bad. It would be bad if it made the healthcare worse and/or more expensive. But it's not bad merely because it's "socialism". But then again, asking for American right-wingers to actually think and discuss things is too much to ask....

And now the dumbest of the right-wingers have moved on from talking about "socialism" in to talking about "marxism", clearly indicating that they are utterly detached from reality and common sense. You want marxism? North-Korea might be a suitable candidate. Former East-Germany might be one as well. Or Soviet Union. USA under Obama (or anyone else for that matter) have very little in common with those countries, as far as economy is concerned.

Every time I feel that the American Right could not get any dumber, they pull an ace from their sleeve...

Good post.

The short-sightedness of the "right" can definitely come across as stupidity but I don't believe it's that exactly, at least not always. I think brainwashed, scared and stubborn is much more accurate. I think many of the "right" have simply fallen too hard for The Fear™ being peddled to each of us. Buying that fear™ will be the great undoing of great nations.

[Peterkro]

While the ideas of Marx have been influential for much of the world I don't think he would recognise the regimes in North Korea,East Germany and the Soviet Union as having very much at all to do with his ideas.

[Thomas Veil]

The intolerance and hypocrisy of the left...Edited because what I gave was a very flippant answer and this deserves more than a flippant answer.

The right has literally made an industry of intolerance, from Fox "News" to Rush Limbaugh to Salem to Michael Savage and Ann Coulter. These are people and outlets which exist for no other purpose than to destroy people they don't agree with...more often than not with made-up stories, innuendo, character assassination and fear-mongering.

The right is a group of people which, in an uberpatriotic fervor and based upon no facts, starts an illegal war, then rewrites history to try to justify the deaths of thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

This is a group of people who have been redistributing the wealth upward since 1980, at least, and become furious at the thought that anybody might redistribute it downward again.

This is a group of people that claim to be for health care reform but are using every subterranean, deceitful method they can think of to not just neutralize it, but to make it work for the benefit of the health insurance industry.

This is a group of people that beat their chests and proclaim how they are standing up for the average true American, even though they control virtually everything.

Don't you dare lecture the left about being intolerant and hypocritical.

[takao]

some people are still stuck in the 50ties as it seems

[Carlos E]

He's not American. That's all that matters.
A freakin' birther!!! lol

[Carlos E]

"Hey Max Baucus, how much money have you received in donations from health insurance companies?"
$1,439,804.00. I looked it up.

[Carlos E]

Marxist... Communist.... Not a US citizen. I think a number of people who throw these names at Obama do it because they can't say what they want to call him without being called racist. The names are just code for what they really want to say. N***er.

[Rt&Dzine]

some people are still stuck in the 50ties as it seems

Fight communism by opposing public health programs!

197713

[iJohnHenry]

This was another, albeit fictional, phycho-babbler.

General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Lord, Jack.
General Jack D. Ripper: You know when fluoridation first began?
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: I... no, no. I don't, Jack.
General Jack D. Ripper: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. Nineteen forty-six, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.