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fivepoint
Sep 29, 2009, 11:49 AM
Thoughts from Europeans? What's the cause? Is the same to follow for Liberals in Washington?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/world/europe/29socialism.html

Europe’s Socialists Suffering Even in Downturn
PARIS — A specter is haunting Europe — the specter of Socialism’s slow collapse.

Even in the midst of one of the greatest challenges to capitalism in 75 years, involving a breakdown of the financial system due to “irrational exuberance,” greed and the weakness of regulatory systems, European Socialist parties and their left-wing cousins have not found a compelling response, let alone taken advantage of the right’s failures.

German voters clobbered the Social Democratic Party on Sunday, giving it only 23 percent of the vote, its worst performance since World War II.

Voters also punished left-leaning candidates in the summer’s European Parliament elections and trounced French Socialists in 2007. Where the left holds power, as in Spain and Britain, it is under attack. Where it is out, as in France, Italy and now Germany, it is divided and listless.

Some American conservatives demonize President Obama’s fiscal stimulus and health care overhaul as a dangerous turn toward European-style Socialism — but it is Europe’s right, not left, that is setting its political agenda.

Europe’s center-right parties have embraced many ideas of the left: generous welfare benefits, nationalized health care, sharp restrictions on carbon emissions, the ceding of some sovereignty to the European Union. But they have won votes by promising to deliver more efficiently than the left, while working to lower taxes, improve financial regulation, and grapple with aging populations.

Europe’s conservatives, says Michel Winock, a historian at the Paris Institut d’Études Politiques, “have adapted themselves to modernity.” When Nicolas Sarkozy of France and Germany’s Angela Merkel condemn the excesses of the “Anglo-Saxon model” of capitalism while praising the protective power of the state, they are using Socialist ideas that have become mainstream, he said.

It is not that the left is irrelevant — it often represents the only viable opposition to established governments, and so benefits, as in the United States, from the normal cycle of electoral politics.

In Portugal, the governing Socialists won re-election on Sunday, but lost an absolute parliamentary majority. In Spain, the Socialists still get credit for opposing both Franco and the Iraq war. In Germany, the broad left, including the Greens, has a structural majority in Parliament, but the Social Democrats, in postelection crisis, must contemplate allying with the hard left, Die Linke, which has roots in the old East German Communist Party.

Part of the problem is the “wall in the head” between East and West Germans. While the Christian Democrats moved smoothly eastward, the Social Democrats of the West never joined with the Communists. “The two Germanys, one Socialist, one Communist — two souls — never really merged,” said Giovanni Sartori, a professor emeritus at Columbia University. “It explains why the S.P.D., which was always the major Socialist party in Europe, cannot really coalesce.”

The situation in France is even worse for the left. Asked this summer if the party was dying, Bernard-Henri Lévy, an emblematic Socialist, answered: “No — it is already dead. No one, or nearly no one, dares to say it. But everyone, or nearly everyone, knows it.” While he was accused of exaggerating, given that the party is the largest in opposition and remains popular in local government, his words struck home.

The Socialist Party, with a long revolutionary tradition and weakening ties to a diminishing working class, is riven by personal rivalries. The party last won the presidency in 1988, and in 2007, Ségolène Royal lost the presidency to Mr. Sarkozy by 6.1 percent, a large margin.

With a reputation for flakiness, Ms. Royal narrowly lost the party leadership election last year to a more doctrinaire Socialist, Martine Aubry, by 102 votes out of 135,000. The ensuing allegations of fraud further chilled their relations.

While Ms. Royal would like to move the Socialists to the center and explore a more formal coalition with the Greens and the Democratic Movement of François Bayrou, Ms. Aubry fears diluting the party. She is both famous and infamous for achieving the 35-hour workweek in the last Socialist government.

The French Socialist Party “is trapped in a hopeless contradiction,” said Tony Judt, director of the Remarque Institute at New York University. It espouses a radical platform it cannot deliver; the result leaves space for parties to its left that can take as much as 15 percent of the vote.

The party, at its summer retreat last month at La Rochelle, a coastal resort, still talked of “comrades” and “party militants.” Its seminars included “Internationalism at Globalized Capitalism’s Hour of Crisis.”

But its infighting has drawn ridicule. Mr. Sarkozy told his party this month that he sent “a big thank-you” to Ms. Royal, “who is helping me a lot,” and Daniel Cohn-Bendit, a prominent European Green politician, said “everyone has cheated” in the Socialist Party and accused Ms. Royal of acting like “an outraged young girl.”

The internecine squabbling in France and elsewhere has done little to position Socialist parties to answer the question of the moment: how to preserve the welfare state amid slower growth and rising deficits. The Socialists have, in this contest, become conservatives, fighting to preserve systems that voters think need to be improved, though not abandoned.

“The Socialists can’t adapt to the loss of their basic electorate, and with globalism, the welfare state can no longer exist in the same way,” Professor Sartori said.

Enrico Letta, 43, is one of the hopes of Italy’s left, currently in disarray in the face of Silvio Berlusconi’s nationalist populism. “We have to understand that Socialism is an answer of the last century,” Mr. Letta said. “We need to build a center-left that is pragmatic, that provides an attractive alternative, and not just an opposition.”

Mr. Letta argues that Socialist policies will have to be transmuted into a more fluid form to allow an alliance with center, liberal and green parties that won’t be called “Socialist.”

Mr. Winock, the historian, said, “I think the left and Socialism in Europe still have work to do; they have a raison d’être, and they will have to rely more on environment issues.” Combined with continuing efforts to reduce income disparity, he said, “going green” may give the left more life.

Mr. Judt argues that European Socialists need a new message — how to reform capitalism, “recognizing the centrality of economic interest while displacing it from its throne as the only way of talking about politics.”

European Socialists need “to think a lot harder about what the state can and can’t do in the 21st century,” he said.

Not an easy syllabus. But without that kind of reform, Mr. Judt said, “I don’t think Socialism in Europe has a future; and given that it is a core constitutive part of the European democratic consensus, that’s bad news.”



Peterkro
Sep 29, 2009, 11:55 AM
The left holds power in Britain, you jest.

Queso
Sep 29, 2009, 12:16 PM
And in Spain?

Macaddicttt
Sep 29, 2009, 12:27 PM
Thoughts from Europeans? What's the cause? Is the same to follow for Liberals in Washington?

If you read the article, you'd see that one of the reasons socialism is having a hard time is because center-right parties have adopted many socialist ideas. So until Republicans become keen on generous welfare benefits, nationalized health care, and sharp restrictions on carbon emissions, the liberals in Washington (who are more closely aligned with Europe's center-right than with socialists) will be around for quite some time.

djellison
Sep 29, 2009, 12:51 PM
The US spectrum of politics extends a mile wide, from the left to the right.

Here in the UK - politics occupies a one inch wide window of that, about a third of a mile into the left.

US politics is so polarised and partisan, any comparison to EU politics, any attempts to draw comparison between the 'left' or the 'right' on each side of the Atlantic is utterly pointless.

You would not find a political party (a serious one with at least a chance of representation in the HoC ) in the UK that would

Ban abortion
Scrap the NHS
Free up gun control
Ban Gay marriage

These are things that one side in the US would like to do.

Not here.

Eraserhead
Sep 29, 2009, 12:52 PM
The left holds power in Britain, you jest.

Well, the Labour party isn't really "left wing"...

Ugg
Sep 29, 2009, 02:12 PM
Fivepoint projecting again....

When Merkel was first elected, everyone was singing the praises of the "German Thatcher" She proved them all wrong. She resembles her socialist predecessor Schroeder way more than she'll ever resemble Thatcher.

I think the one word that describes Merkel the best is pragmatic. Not only that she spends a lot of time building a consensus.

Even Poland only flirted with the potato twins ™ :D Nobody wants extremists in office, whether they're on the left or the right.

If you follow British politics, you'll of course have noticed that even Thatcher's Tories have turned into Labour Light.

leekohler
Sep 29, 2009, 02:20 PM
Fivepoint projecting again....

You expected something different?

When Merkel was first elected, everyone was singing the praises of the "German Thatcher" She proved them all wrong. She resembles her socialist predecessor Schroeder way more than she'll ever resemble Thatcher.

I think the one word that describes Merkel the best is pragmatic. Not only that she spends a lot of time building a consensus.

Now, there's a word completely missing from American politics. That needs to be a new party in the US- the Pragmatic Party, that simply does what works, not what they wish would work according to some tired, dead ideology.

Eraserhead
Sep 29, 2009, 02:51 PM
That needs to be a new party in the US- the Pragmatic Party, that simply does what works, not what they wish would work according to some tired, dead ideology.

What about HIV/AIDs or drugs or providing opportunities to the poor? Then a lot of the time it isn't just the US that falls down its (almost) everyone.

leekohler
Sep 29, 2009, 02:56 PM
What about HIV/AIDs or drugs or providing opportunities to the poor? Then a lot of the time it isn't just the US that falls down its (almost) everyone.

I think you know what I mean. I'm not talking about science, I'm talking about politics.

What I mean is- what is the most beneficial to society.

Eraserhead
Sep 29, 2009, 03:04 PM
I think you know what I mean. I'm not talking about science, I'm talking about politics.

What I mean is- what is the most beneficial to society.

I'm talking about politics too. The reason we don't hand out clean needles to drug addicts in UK prisons or handing them out at all in many other countries is entirely politics, there's no scientific basis for not doing it.

And society benefits in at least that for those addicts that do clean up, we don't have to fund anti-retrovirals for the rest of their lives.

And then on drugs if we legalised it we'd benefit Mexico, and Peru and Columbia by taking all that illegal money and corruption out of their countries - even for the people who aren't addicts. And noone is exactly going to take Heroin "just because its legal" when we're hardly likely to increase its availability by providing on prescription.

takao
Sep 30, 2009, 04:57 AM
Fivepoint projecting again....

When Merkel was first elected, everyone was singing the praises of the "German Thatcher" She proved them all wrong. She resembles her socialist predecessor Schroeder way more than she'll ever resemble Thatcher.

I think the one word that describes Merkel the best is pragmatic. Not only that she spends a lot of time building a consensus.

well after all Merkel studied physics and simply leads to be a little more pragmatic most of the time

though the interesting thing this time will be how yet again the right wing praises will be made because of the market liberals of the FDP joining the german government only to find out that their head Guido Westerwelle is gay

and chances are that he isn't going to play "softball" as the pretty much confirmed new foreign minister:
on the first FDP press conference he answered to a reporter from the UK after being asked a question in english: (i'm translating here): "we are in germany here the day after the german bundestag election, at a press conference regarding german politics so i expect the questions in german just like in the UK they would be expected in english and in France in french"

the english yellow press gonna like this... i can already hear the third reich references being printed

i suspect the UK can forget pretty much all of the usual "we want an exception" stuff on the EU level now

jb1280
Sep 30, 2009, 04:58 AM
If anything, the issue that plagues the Socialists in Europe is similar to the problems of the Republicans in the United States.

This trend is not related to ideology, it's simply a function of the end of a political cycle.

As has been stated, most of the core ideas of the socialists are now part of the political mainstream - nobody is going to unravel universal health care and foreign policy will still err on the side of non-military involvement.

Similarly, the core ideas of the Republican party are now part of the mainstream in the United States. There will most likely not be a public option for health care, foreign policy will still be flanked by "hawks", and low taxes will always be politically necessary.

Put in another way, the two are victims of their own success.

Further, the Republican coalition has essentially been turned inside-out and lacks any credible leadership in a similar way that smaller parties that are left of the social democrats are peeling away votes.

Finally, both are intellectually spent. They have no new ideas.

Again, this is ideologically agnostic and more related to general cycles of political leadership within states.

Eraserhead
Sep 30, 2009, 05:23 AM
^^ The real reason the republicans are dying isn't that things like "no public healthcare" are going to be adopted, but that such things aren't rational, and for a rich country don't actually make any sense. Which is why the arguments against public healthcare are so weak...

Pocket lint
Sep 30, 2009, 06:55 AM
The left holds power in Britain, you jest.

Yep, just like the left holds any power here in Denmark :p
Seriously, the Social Democracy (the party) used to be the biggest, and very good and strong when in opposition, but these days, they're nothing more than a joke.

I wouldn't call Italy "socialist" either. Not even close.

Quite the substandard article.

I agree with JB, mentioning that most of the ideas of the left have become mainstream (at least when it comes to rhetorics). We have for years said that the Social Democracy (the party) have "sejret ad helvede til" which translates into something like "Have been victorious all the way to hell", implying they have made themselves superfluous as a party, or as JB puts it: A victim of their own success.