RANT: Correct me if I am wrong but.....

[canuhandlethis8]

I was out sick last week from class. I emailed my class the following email:::

Hey all,

I was out last week sick, i was wondering what Mr. Racers first test covered.

Thanks


Today I get an email back from my professor which is the following email:::

Thanks so much for sending me an e-mail asking for information as to what was on the exam you haven't taken. If you ever do something like this again I will see to it that you will be expelled from this college.



I feel very offended and appalled, I've busted my ass in school and never ever ever EVER cheated my though anything, my records are clean! I was not asking for anything specific (answers, questions etc..) just general question.

Is his old *ss overreacting, or am I wrong? Because I'm about to write a nassssty email lmao!

[Unspoken Demise]

I can see why the professor thought you were trying to get a head start on the test, but I think you meant it more innocently. Make sur enot to CC your professor in the future. Sounds like a buttface to me. :p

[robbieduncan]

To me that looks like cheating: no one else who took that test had access to that data so you gaining it in advance of taking the test (assuming you are going to get to take it) would give you an unfair advantage. Just about the exact definition of cheating.

I'd say you're lucky to get away with it at all: anyone caught cheating or attempting to cheat would be in serious trouble when I was at Uni.

[fireshot91]

Well, if nobody took it, then how would the other people know what's on the test..unless your teacher said it himself that "____ will be on the test". And if he says that, and you were absent, and you ask him, that's not cheating...:confused:

[thegoldenmackid]

If you were in class when the professor covered what the exam itself would cover, then yes you are cheating. The way you phrased it definitely made it seem as if you were asking for what the test was on is from the perspective of someone that had already taken the test, which would be cheating.

If you were just trying to be reminded because you were gone for so long. Why not directly email your professor and explain your situation, i.e. "Hello Professor ___, I have been sick for the past week and just want to be clear on what the exam I missed last week covered..."

[electroshock]

Comments:

1. He's overreacting.

2. Consider writing that nasty email as a word processing document, save it to your HD, then don't send it so you blow off steam. Because if you touch off a war with the prof, things could eventually come down to a "he said, she said" kind of situation sometime in the future for something unrelated and your prof unfortunately holds the upper hand.

3. You've got to live with the same prof working there for the next X years... try to save warfare for after you successfully graduate. :) You don't need to have political roadblocks thrown up in your face between now and graduation day.

[Buzz Bumble]

Sounds like a typically dumbass academic - supposedly big brains, but little actual intelligence (unlike managers who have tiny brains and still no actual intelligence).

If you wanted to cheat you wouldn't email the teacher, you'd simply ask someone you knew who had done the test. Besides which, it would be rather stupid of them to give you the same test after everyone else has already done it for that same reason.

Just ignore the fool and hopefully you won't have to deal with them much longer.

[justaregularjoe]

okay well "What was covered on the test?" is QUITE a bit different than "The test just covered Unit/Chapter XYZ, no new material, etc.?"

[instaxgirl]

I read the email as an "I know there was a test but I don't know what subjects it was meant to be on" rather than "what were the questions" but maybe my mind just isn't all that suspicious :rolleyes: If you meant the former then shame on you etc

I'd be steering clear of that professor. I would probably not respond because he sounds like a jerk who'd never believe you meant it innocently (if you did) and you run the risk of getting another horrible email back. Just go with it.

I had a lecturer jump down my throat last week (about something I'd actually spent time trying to phrase delicately). It's not nice, and it's not the first time it's happened to me. I generally try to just fade into the background after I have a run in rather than making myself more memorable to them. Basically my advice is to suck it up, only sensible way to go.

[CylonGlitch]

If you wanted to cheat you wouldn't email the teacher, you'd simply ask someone you knew who had done the test. Besides which, it would be rather stupid of them to give you the same test after everyone else has already done it for that same reason..

From the professors point of view, it didn't look good. Did he over react? Maybe but I'm sure there are tons of cheats out there; this one just looked like a cheat and stupid at the same time.

Now I would write a letter to the professor explaining your intent, not that you wanted to know what was on the test, but what the test was supposed to cover because you were sick and do not recall him talking about it (being sick and all). I would also offer to take a zero on the test, because of the mistake and apologize again.

A cold hearted professor will give him the zero. If he comes across as being honest he'll get a makeup test and that will be that. But one thing is for sure, this test is going to be MUCH harder then the original test, I can promise you that!

[yojitani]

Look at it this way. Did anyone have access to the information you were requesting BEFORE they took the exam? Probably not. So what you were likely doing was asking for an unfair advantage. Your professor might have been a little more within reason to ask you what you were playing at before making the threat, but in most cases professors aren't really there for undergrads (which I take it you are) and don't want to take the time for them. It is unfortunate, but that is how things are as they stand. Still, what you did was probably unintentional, but easily perceived as cheating. Hopefully, you'll learn something from this.

Luckily we have superior beings in our midst, like some people on this thread, to help us discern between brains and intelligence:rolleyes:.

[canuhandlethis8]

Yeah i was absent the whole week... and I was NOT asking for anything in specific...the class is American History Though 1700 so it's a pretty intense class. This is really bothering me because I know I'm an honest student. And going in there face to face with the guy would totally piss me off even more.

[yg17]

No I don't think the professor is overreacting at all. The e-mail is worded as if you're trying to cheat. That might not have been your intent but that's certainly what the wording tells me. If I were the professor, I would've thought the same thing and probably given you an F on the test.

[neonblue2]

It doesn't sound like you were trying to cheat to me but the language you used is so broad that I can see how some could see it that way. A better question would have been, "I was out last week sick and I was wondering what subject Mr. Racer's first test was on.", rather than using the word "covered" that can imply the entirety of the contents of the test.

The best thing to do would be too apologise for the misunderstanding and explain what you meant exactly. It may just be, as some others have said, that nobody knew the contents of the test beforehand and that he thought you knew that. Even so, I don't see how he's much of a professor if he jumps to conclusions this quickly based on so little information. A better response would have been to inquire and gain some hard evidence before threatening one of his students.

This would be so ironic if you were studying law...

[Keebler]

if it were me, I would send another email explaining that you weren't asking for specifics, but general subjects and that you were in no intention trying to cheat.

Refer to your academic standing and the fact that you do bust your arse off without cheating (in a polite way).

Tell the prof that, after re-reading your email, you can understand how he could take your email as a request for detailed information and apologize.

Sometimes these academic heads just need a little butt kissing to feel better about themselves. Doesn't make it right, but in this situation, he is in command.

Explain yourself and let it go after that.

Cheers and good luck,
Keebler.

[Little HZ]

If you were just trying to be reminded because you were gone for so long. Why not directly email your professor and explain your situation, i.e. "Hello Professor ___, I have been sick for the past week and just want to be clear on what the exam I missed last week covered..."

As someone who taught at a Big Ten university for many years, I find this to be the best observation. As a teacher, I would have assumed it LIKELY that, since you copied your e-mail to me, you were asking the question innocently enough, but you were, at least potentially, asking for an unfair advantage, nevertheless. Based on the cheating I DID see, I would have had to consider the chance that you were hoping to get some inside info. That is to say, I very much wanted to give students the benefit of the doubt, but to be fair to students who showed up and took the exam on time, I had to keep an eye out for potential cheating. I would have replied more temperately than your teacher did, but I would have included a stern warning to become familiar with university policies on tests and grades, and to take more care in the future.

Leaving your classmates out of the loop and going directly to the teacher would have been the best strategy by far!

P.S. I never gave the same test to students who missed a test--exactly because it is too easy for students to get information about the test they missed from classmates.

[heehee]

I was out last week sick, i was wondering what Mr. Racers first test covered.


It might not be what you intended to do, but you did ask what the "test covered".



Thanks so much for sending me an e-mail asking for information as to what was on the exam you haven't taken. If you ever do something like this again I will see to it that you will be expelled from this college.

I feel very offended and appalled, I've busted my ass in school and never ever ever EVER cheated my though anything, my records are clean! I was not asking for anything specific (answers, questions etc..) just general question.

Is his old *ss overreacting, or am I wrong? Because I'm about to write a nassssty email lmao!

No need to be offended, he didn't expel you. Just write an email and explain yourself.

[mkrishnan]

if it were me, I would send another email explaining that you weren't asking for specifics, but general subjects and that you were in no intention trying to cheat.

Now I don't really care, but... I'm kind of lost...

I can envision two scenarios.

1) A student misses class during the time in which the coverage for an upcoming exam is announced. It would be very reasonable to ask what that coverage was, as this is information everyone else had access to before the exam. If that's what you intended, just say so to him/her.

2) OTOH, if this is about asking for information covered on the exam based on what students discovered by taking the exam, I can scarcely see it complying with the academic standards of any college or university I've ever been associated with. Professors have the option of using mechanisms like alternate exams (or not) to deal with absentees. But asking for people to tell you about the coverage based on the exam (not based on the announcement) is wrong no matter what level of generality is involved in the questions, unless the professor gives the student the carte blanche to do this.

Now if I were your professor I wouldn't nasty-gram you, but that doesn't make asking the question any more right...

I don't understand why anyone would think (2) is honorable or appropriate behavior.

[Zombie Acorn]

I would have expelled you for not reading the syllabus to figure out what chapters the first test covered.

Also if you were out sick for an entire week I would fail you.

[Signal-11]

It might not be what you intended to do, but you did ask what the "test covered".

Depends on the mood of the reader at the time. I normally give the benefit of doubt as it seems to be innocent (emailed whole class, CCd the prof, confused about the reaction) but read another way, it could definitely read as asking for an unfair advantage.

No need to be offended, he didn't expel you. Just write an email and explain yourself.

No. Do it face to face. A misread email got you into this mess, it's not going to get you out. Call, ask for an appointment or visit during office hours. Then make your situation clear.

Personally, I don't like being threatened. Especially as a reaction to something that I'm innocent of. I'd apologize for the misunderstanding but I would make it clear that I'd like an apology from him as well. But that's me. I wouldn't recommend it.

[wywern209]

The way that your email was worded, it is possible that you were asking for answers on the test. maybe use better wording next time. apologize for the bad wording and send him/her a better worded email asking what you wanted to ask.

[Maccin475]

I can see why you are pissed. You were good intentioned but the way you phrased the email, it sounds like you were looking for some "extra" help. I'm not implying that you use dishonest means to get through school in any way. Just send your professor a follow up email, clarifying your earlier email, i'm sure he'll understand.

[FrankieTDouglas]

Stop ranting.

As someone who taught college courses for two years, I would feel the same as the professor. I read that and instantly thought of someone looking for a review of the test everyone took. If you're going to send this stuff out, use some basic sense and not include your teacher in the mass email. That's just dumb. Don't give a teacher a blatant red flag.

On a related note, don't facebook friend request your professors. If they add you, remember they are on your friend list and can see status updates and wall posts you make on classmates' profiles. I've seen some interesting stuff on facebook from one student to another, and all I had to do was login to my account and there it was, sitting in the news feed.

[Dagless]

That would give you an advantage over the students who were in at the time. I'd consider that a form of cheating.

[Badandy]

Say this:

"Professor, I was simply asking what chapters I need to study for the exam I need to take, not any specifics of what material from those chapters you actually put on the exam. I hope that doesn't warrant expulsion."

He'll feel like a huge moron if you include that last sentence.

EDIT: Unless of course you knew what chapters it covered and were literally asking people who already took the test for hints on what subjects were picked to be on it. In that case, you deserve everything coming to you.

[dukebound85]

I was out sick last week from class. I emailed my class the following email:::

Hey all,

I was out last week sick, i was wondering what Mr. Racers first test covered.

Thanks


Today I get an email back from my professor which is the following email:::

Thanks so much for sending me an e-mail asking for information as to what was on the exam you haven't taken. If you ever do something like this again I will see to it that you will be expelled from this college.



I feel very offended and appalled, I've busted my ass in school and never ever ever EVER cheated my though anything, my records are clean! I was not asking for anything specific (answers, questions etc..) just general question.

Is his old *ss overreacting, or am I wrong? Because I'm about to write a nassssty email lmao!
I think his response is PERFECTLY understandable and I agree with it

It sure sounded as if you wanted the questions from the test, regardless of the intent you may have had

[ucfgrad93]

Definitely go in during office hours and talk to him about the situation. Explain what you were really asking for and that you were not trying to cheat. Then apologize.

[thegoldenmackid]

Say this:

"Professor, I was simply asking what chapters I need to study for the exam I need to take, not any specifics of what material from those chapters you actually put on the exam. I hope that doesn't warrant expulsion."

He'll feel like a huge moron if you include that last sentence.

EDIT: Unless of course you knew what chapters it covered and were literally asking people who already took the test for hints on what subjects were picked to be on it. In that case, you deserve everything coming to you.

I would apologize and just explain yourself. I don't think your professor overreacted, but I do think you are. Clearly it was a miscommunication, but it is not something that warrants a response of sarcasm. This is a professor-student relationship and you must respect the bounds. Simply go in and talk to your professor face-to-face, remember you want to make sure the situation is mutually resolved and that you both understand what was misunderstood.

[Badandy]

I think his response is PERFECTLY understandable and I agree with it

It sure sounded as if you wanted the questions from the test, regardless of the intent you may have had

And, in my opinion, the original email the OP sent was so vague and brief that the way the professor responded was a severe over-reaction.

If you read my last post I raised the important issue of what the OP's intent was. What was it, OP? Did you know what chapters the test covered and wanted more detail into what you should *wink wink* study or did you not have a syllabus with accurate information on what was testable material?

Clearly it was a miscommunication, but it is not something that warrants a response of sarcasm.

Based on how vague the original email was, I really don't see how anyone could say the professor's return email wasn't an over-reaction. And about sarcasm: EVERY response warrants sarcasm.

This is a professor-student relationship and you must respect the bounds.

I strongly disagree with this notion. Professors aren't better than their students, they're usually just more knowledgeable about a subject. He might feel he has the authority by which to disrespect you, but he doesn't until what you were asking for is made clearer. I don't let any professor push me around. That being said, I would never instigate anything and I'm not that guy who raises his hand for the sole purpose of getting into a disagreement.

[Leareth]

Both OP and the prof are mis-reacting here.

I would write an email to the prof
"Professor, I was simply asking what chapters I need to study for the exam I need to take, not any specifics of what material from those chapters you actually put on the exam. I could have been more clear in my intent etcetc"

BUT I would CC to someone higher up as well

[dukebound85]

And, in my opinion, the original email the OP sent was so vague and brief that the way the professor responded was a severe over-reaction.



I wouldnt say that

intentions are never conveyed well in words

you can take it a multitude of ways and each are understandable and depending on how one took it, its not an over reaction at all

[heehee]

Did you email your prof the first time or did someone tell on you?

[sanPietro98]

Don't send a nasty email/letter. No good can come from that.

Just visit your prof during office hours and explain what you meant.

[Badandy]

I wouldnt say that

intentions are never conveyed well in words

you can take it a multitude of ways and each are understandable and depending on how one took it, its not an over reaction at all

That's ridiculous. He threatened expulsion over an email that is so vague that most of us in this thread can't even determine if he was trying to be academically dishonest or not. If something can be taken multiple ways (and rather easily, I might add, based on all the responses in this thread) it's up to the professor to ask for more information before countering with such a harsh response.

[Don't panic]

i concur with the majority, that your mail was ambiguous at best and thus your professor's answer was warranted (although i would have used a milder tone with my students).

in addition you have a few things going against you:
- mass email: annoying to begin with
- dum: included your teacher in a borderline cheating email. Really?
- first test: no previous 'virtuous' history to refer to

a couple of extra points to consider:
- since you included him in the mass email, you put your professor in a tough spot: he had to give you a stern reaction because everyone would have been looking to what he would do
- what if someone emailed you back a detailed account of the specifics of test: what would have you done then? would have you volunteered for an F?

[BittenApple]

You should have addressed your questions to your professor.

[AppleMatt]

I don't think the response was at all proportionate. Are you sure it came from your professor, and not a classmate who's playing a joke?

If it's a genuine message, reply politely and succinctly but BCC in someone you trust (father, doctor whatever) and also his 'boss', whoever that may be. You don't want this being used against you in anyway (including bias in future marking) so cover yourself.

AppleMatt

[dukebound85]

That's ridiculous. He threatened expulsion over an email that is so vague that most of us in this thread can't even determine if he was trying to be academically dishonest or not. If something can be taken multiple ways (and rather easily, I might add, based on all the responses in this thread) it's up to the professor to ask for more information before countering with such a harsh response.

Well the professor only took it one way and the way he took it was against the policy of the school in terms of academic honesty

His response is warranted. As is your interpretation. Not every one thinks the same

Its the students responsibility to clear the confusion over the misinterpretation

I know I thought the same way as the prof did and im willing to bet he deals with more people cheating than you or i care to know so when some asks what the test covers, taking it as "what questions are on the test " or "what specific topics does the test cover" is completely valid


- what if someone emailed you back a detailed account of the specifics of test: what would have you done then? would have you volunteered for an F?

and im sure many students took the email as to asking what was on the test and may have provided info that would be considered cheating

[AppleMatt]

but he's not asking for privileged information? He's only asking for what was made available to everyone else who was present in class.

So...where's the issue? I'm confident that everyone in this thread at some point has said 'I missed XX due to YY, is there anything I should know?'


- dum: included your teacher in a borderline cheating email. Really?

That just says to me that it's less likely to be 'cheating' and more likely to be a genuine mis-communication. Clearly you wouldn't copy your professor in on 'what will the questions in June be?' e-mail.

That's ridiculous. He threatened expulsion over an email that is so vague that most of us in this thread can't even determine if he was trying to be academically dishonest or not. If something can be taken multiple ways (and rather easily, I might add, based on all the responses in this thread) it's up to the professor to ask for more information before countering with such a harsh response.

Completely agree.

AppleMatt

[thegoldenmackid]

If you read my last post I raised the important issue of what the OP's intent was. What was it, OP? Did you know what chapters the test covered and wanted more detail into what you should *wink wink* study or did you not have a syllabus with accurate information on what was testable material?
The intent seems to clearly be not cheating, but you can't blame the professor for assuming cheating. I mean I read the e-mail and that's what I got out of it. Especially because the e-mail was sent to another student, the phrasing was awful.

Based on how vague the original email was, I really don't see how anyone could say the professor's return email wasn't an over-reaction. And about sarcasm: EVERY response warrants sarcasm.
Everyone is going to act differntly, but most schools have a strict policy regarding cheating and it's not to be taken lightly. If I was a professor I would have reacted differently, mainly that I would have called said student into my office, but I don't think my reaction would have been much different, perhaps just more wordy. People take sarcasm to varying degrees, given that the OP was planning on b****ing out his/her professor at first, I'd say everyone should take a step back and be civil and cordial. Challenging professor's can be good, but not when on paper you look to be wrong.


I strongly disagree with this notion. Professors aren't better than their students, they're usually just more knowledgeable about a subject. He might feel he has the authority by which to disrespect you, but he doesn't until what you were asking for is made clearer. I don't let any professor push me around. That being said, I would never instigate anything and I'm not that guy who raises his hand for the sole purpose of getting into a disagreement.
I agree that professors are no better, but remember the relationship. I don't feel that the professor disrespected the OP, especially given the OP's e-mail. The OP mishandled this situation from the start IMO.
1. You should have contacted your professor
2. I understand e-mail is convenient, but if you miss that much class, sitting down and talking during office hours would seem best
3. You should reread what you type, because it seems fairly unanimous on paper to be one thing

I agree that we are all people and all equal, but when you challenge your professor and disrespect them, your life has a better chance of becoming hell and then it becomes about "standing up to the man" as opposed to learning, the whole reason why you are there. In this instance, the professor is not pushing you around at all, they are doing their job. If I thought a student was trying to cheat on my exam, I'd take it as a personal insult.

[Don't panic]

That just says to me that it's less likely to be 'cheating' and more likely to be a genuine mis-communication. Clearly you wouldn't copy your professor in on 'what will the questions in June be?' e-mail.


i agree that if you were smart you wouldn't, but if were not you might.

i don't know the poster nor i know his school and the average level of the students there, but i dealt with very good and very bad ones, and I guarantee you that for this to happen by mistake is absolutely not out of the realms of possibility.

also, consider that we first saw the message in a context of a rant that put it in a positive light, but to read it devoid of any other context it looks worse.

[swiftaw]

I'll preface my response with this: I am a college professor.

I'll address a couple of key points. Firstly, if you are wanting to know if your professor discussed what specific chapters/topics etc were to be covered on the test and it was this information that you were seeking in order to prepare for your rescheduled test then you would have been best to ask the professor not mass mail all the students. That way you would get the information directly from the source not a student's version of the information.

Secondly, if I saw an email like that, the way it is worded, and sent to the other students rather than to me, it would look to me like you are asking for what specific questions were on the test.

While the professor's response was abrupt, if he thought you were attempting to do what it reads like you were attempting to do he would have every right to initiate disciplinary proceedings in accordance to your college's honor code.

As far as what to do now, I would say quite simply, apologize and explain. A simple email (or in fact in person) statement like "I'm sorry, I want you to know that it was not my intention to find out the questions on the test, but rather to see if you had discussed what topics would be included during a class I missed."

Speaking as a college professor, rescheduling tests to accommodate students creates a great deal of extra work for us. So much so that some of my colleagues simply refuse to do it. If you are sick, you miss the test, too bad. I do it providing it is an unavoidable situation, because sometimes things just happen.

Finally, does your professor have a doctorate? If so, referring to him as "Mr." might be considered rude.

Anyways, it's a misunderstanding created by the lack of clarity in your words. Apologize, explain, and move on.

[Cave Man]

Today I get an email back from my professor which is the following email:::

Thanks so much for sending me an e-mail asking for information as to what was on the exam you haven't taken. If you ever do something like this again I will see to it that you will be expelled from this college.

I feel very offended and appalled, I've busted my ass in school and never ever ever EVER cheated my though anything, my records are clean! I was not asking for anything specific (answers, questions etc..) just general question.

It is inappropriate for you to ask such a question. It is a common thing among your generation to not understand this.

Sounds like a typically dumbass academic - supposedly big brains, but little actual intelligence (unlike managers who have tiny brains and still no actual intelligence).

Sounds like you have a little intellectual anemia.

I would apologize and just explain yourself. I don't think your professor overreacted, but I do think you are. Clearly it was a miscommunication, but it is not something that warrants a response of sarcasm. stood.

Clearly it was an inappropriate thing to do; miscommunication has nothing to do with it.

And, in my opinion, the original email the OP sent was so vague and brief that the way the professor responded was a severe over-reaction.

Had the OP emailed the professor it would have been perfectly appropriate. However, he emailed his classmates after they had taken the exam. That is the problem and the professor did exactly what every other professor would have done.

I would write an email to the prof "Professor, I was simply asking what chapters I need to study for the exam I need to take, not any specifics of what material from those chapters you actually put on the exam. I could have been more clear in my intent etcetc"

Take my word on this. The OP should not take your advice. It will only exacerbate the problem.

BUT I would CC to someone higher up as well

And the risk of this would be academic dishonesty charges from academic affairs (i.e., Dean of Students). Right now, the OP is off the hook. An apology in person and a statement saying he'll only ask the professor about future exams is the best solution here.

[yojitani]

Take my word on this. The OP should not take your advice. It will only exacerbate the problem.


^^ This. Asking what chapters or whatever the test covered is exactly what is wrong with the email in the first place.

<wistfulness>Oh Cave Man, I wish I were where you are. How I wish I could be nearer to Duesseldorf and Koeln. </wistfulness>

[Cave Man]

<wistfulness>Oh Cave Man, I wish I were where you are. How I wish I could be nearer to Duesseldorf and Koeln. </wistfulness>

You're not missing anything. The neighborhood's gone to hell since the Cro-Magnons moved in.

[DiamondMac]

How someone can read that email from the poster and NOT think he is trying to get the answers is.....rather scary and shows the level and denial people have with cheating.

It's clear what he wants and I applaud the teacher and would do the same thing.

I teach (part/night time) as does another family member of mine and I can tell you that the best thing to do is MOVE ON. Students who are caught red-handed like you and try to either cover it up OR deny it...only make matters worse and continue keeping the situation fresh in the teachers head.

[Mexbearpig]

I would just say this:
"I had no intent to get specifics on the test. Merely just a generalization on what it covered as in Units. I know how you could take this Email as an attempt to cheat on this test, and I will not do anything of this sort in the future. And I hope that it will never come to expulsion."

Something along those lines.
And No I think your proffesor response was perfect. No overeaction. He saw it as an attmept to get answers and he adressed the matter politely and very neccessary.

[DiamondMac]

I would just say this:
"I had no intent to get specifics on the test. Merely just a generalization on what it covered as in Units. I know how you could take this Email as an attempt to cheat on this test, and I will not do anything of this sort in the future. And I hope that it will never come to expulsion."

Something along those lines.
And No I think your proffesor response was perfect. No overeaction. He saw it as an attmept to get answers and he adressed the matter politely and very neccessary.

I actually think that response is a very good one.

[Ttownbeast]

Any proper trained teaching professor would have attempted to investigate the matter further inquiring what the student meant, before acting in such a rash manner. I had my share of both patient teachers and irrational ones while I studied in college. Asking "what the test covered" is not the same as saying "dude whats the answer to number three" a patient professor would have commended a student for wanting to catch up while reminding them not to get behind any further than the teacher is capable of helping out. It is possible this professor is overworked and has a very short fuse--many college professors aren't required to have any actual teaching experience in their backgrounds and are hired only based upon the expertise in the subject they teach, but a lot of them lack basic classroom management skills and don't tend to enroll in classes periodically to enhance the basic teaching skills. Sometimes this neglect for their own continued education is due to issues with their egos and the fact that they believe that having a doctorate means they are finished learning.

[dukebound85]

Any proper trained teaching professor would have attempted to investigate the matter further inquiring what the student meant, before acting in such a rash manner.

The teacher didnt actaully do anything but gave a stern warning and rightfully so

I had my share of both patient teachers and irrational ones while I studied in college. Asking "what the test covered" is not the same as saying "dude whats the answer to number three" a patient professor would have commended a student for wanting to catch up while reminding them not to get behind any further than the teacher is capable of helping out.

Then do not email the whole class asking what the test covers. It comes across as asking "what was exactly on the test"

Go to office hrs or email the teacher alone

It is possible this professor is overworked and has a very short fuse--many college professors aren't required to have any actual teaching experience in their backgrounds and are hired only based upon the expertise in the subject they teach, but a lot of them lack basic classroom management skills and don't tend to enroll in classes periodically to enhance the basic teaching skills. Sometimes this neglect for their own continued education is due to issues with their egos and the fact that they believe that having a doctorate means they are finished learning.

Uh what? This seems awfully ignorant of the facts of what it entails to be a college professor

[Ttownbeast]

Uh what? This seems awfully ignorant of the facts of what it entails to be a college professor

Not at all ignorant I asked enough of them when I was earning my degree to audit the quality of my college education experiences, only a small percentage actually took courses periodically in classroom management strategies the rest just punched the clock for a check. Many of them were fantastic as experts in their fields and saw better money by teaching but horrible educators. There is no real system in place in higher education regulating professors as there is in the elementary and secondary systems requiring continued training--sure courses are offered but beyond individual schools at this level it is not standardized or required any extra education is essentially voluntary.

[Cave Man]

Any proper trained teaching professor

What do you know about "proper trained teaching"?

would have attempted to investigate the matter further inquiring what the student meant, before acting in such a rash manner.

Yeah, they have time to do investigations. :rolleyes: The student asked other students about exam content. That's a violation of academic honesty at any institution. The OP claims his intent was innocuous, but nonetheless it is inappropriate to ask such things. If he wanted to know what was on the exam, he should have asked the professor - not his classmates.

Asking "what the test covered" is not the same as saying "dude whats the answer to number three"

Again, the question should have been asked of the professor, not the classmates.

a patient professor would have commended a student for wanting to catch up while reminding them not to get behind any further than the teacher is capable of helping out.

I have no idea what you're talking about here.

It is possible this professor is overworked and has a very short fuse--

More likely the professor has had to deal with this many times before.

many college professors aren't required to have any actual teaching experience in their backgrounds and are hired only based upon the expertise in the subject they teach, but a lot of them lack basic classroom management skills and don't tend to enroll in classes periodically to enhance the basic teaching skills.

The great majority of professors who spend substantial time in the classroom have had pedagogical coursework. Your assertion is spurious.

Sometimes this neglect for their own continued education is due to issues with their egos and the fact that they believe that having a doctorate means they are finished learning.

Flat out BS. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Not at all ignorant I asked enough of them when I was earning my degree to audit the quality of my college education experiences, only a small percentage actually took courses periodically in classroom management strategies

At our institution (which is an R1 research institution), virtually all tenure and tenure-track faculty have pedagogical training. You're relaying your personal experiences as statistically meaningful, when in fact they're not.

the rest just punched the clock for a check.

As with any profession, there can be some deadwood. Fortunately, those usually don't get tenure or if they do they end up as administrators.

Many of them were fantastic as experts in their fields and saw better money by teaching but horrible educators.

You're joking, right? If you want to make money in academia, you don't teach. You either do research (i.e., grants) or get into administration.

There is no real system in place in higher education regulating professors as there is in the elementary and secondary systems requiring continued training--sure courses are offered but beyond individual schools at this level it is not standardized or required any extra education is essentially voluntary.

Seriously. I'm beginning to think you're just trolling. Every year faculty are reviewed on their teaching, principally by peers and by student evaluations. If trends occur that demonstrate inadequacies in the classroom then that professor (usually an assistant professor) is assigned a mentor from the tenured faculty. If he/she does not improve, then they won't get tenure. On average, about 40% of assistant professors don't get tenure. After 5 years, you're gone.

[Ttownbeast]

What do you know about "proper trained teaching"? I'm not going to bother about my fields of experience here.



Yeah, they have time to do investigations. :rolleyes: The student asked other students about exam content. That's a violation of academic honesty at any institution. The OP claims his intent was innocuous, but nonetheless it is inappropriate to ask such things. If he wanted to know what was on the exam, he should have asked the professor - not his classmates. Yes, taking five minutes to send an e-mail reply to ask for some kind of clarification assuming an honest mistake was made is the patient approach.



Again, the question should have been asked of the professor, not the classmates. Again this is assuming mistrust if the rest of the students likely they are aware of the nature of cheating then they would be as liable as this student should they provide the answers, but there is no strict rule stating that they cannot be referenced to as a study aide a student could just as easily ask students who have taken the same course in a previous term. Rather than automatically interpret his query as cheating it is best to assume he is making a genuine attempt to catch up--this goes back to the automatic distrust.


I have no idea what you're talking about here.

That's a matter of communicating with your pupils psychologically, expressing your disapproval while at the same time letting them know you'll do what you can.


More likely the professor has had to deal with this many times before.

and it is likely this professor didn't bother to learn from the previous experiences in order to adjust his teaching methods to help lessen the problem.


The great majority of professors who spend substantial time in the classroom have had pedagogical coursework. Your assertion is spurious.
We can throw statistics at each other here all day but there is no set regulation or requirement saying they all have to nationally.


Flat out BS. You have no idea what you're talking about.
That's your opinion.

[canuhandlethis8]

wow thanks guys!!

The funny thing is..even when i was out sick, I'd email him all my professors and give them status updates on how I was feeling. Every single teacher EXPECT this guy emailed me back. And it's funny that his first email to me is threatening me.

[Mexbearpig]

I would just say this:
"I had no intent to get specifics on the test. Merely just a generalization on what it covered as in Units. I know how you could take this Email as an attempt to cheat on this test, and I will not do anything of this sort in the future. And I hope that it will never come to expulsion."

Something along those lines.
And No I think your proffesor response was perfect. No overeaction. He saw it as an attmept to get answers and he adressed the matter politely and very neccessary.I actually think that response is a very good one.
Thank you. It gets everything you want in it. A defense is the first sentence. Agreeing with the Professor next. Than apologizing and guranteeing not to do it again.

[DiamondMac]

Any proper trained teaching professor would have attempted to investigate the matter further inquiring what the student meant

What was meant was quite clear. Those who don't want to believe it are finding all sorts of excuses trying to wiggle out what was clearly meant.

Asking "what the test covered" is not the same as saying "dude whats the answer to number three" a patient professor would have commended a student for wanting to catch up while reminding them not to get behind any further than the teacher is capable of helping out.

How you go from the first few words to the last is simply beyond me.

Asking what the test covered is in fact CLEARLY cheating as material given out by the teacher as possibly ON the exam is then being told that it isn't. If a teacher says Chapters 1-10 could be on an exam and a student tells another that only Chapters 4,5,6 were on the actual exam....that is cheating. Specific answers do not need to be given.

I mean, does that really need to be explained? Do we have that many cheaters on this forum that have perfected excuses out of being caught so clearly?

many college professors aren't required to have any actual teaching experience in their backgrounds

What experience do you have in this field?

[Iscariot]

Okay, I'll correct you.

You're wrong.

Hope that helps!

[DiamondMac]

I'm not going to bother about my fields of experience here.

You have none. Your post came off to me as someone who was caught in the past and still fuming that the teacher caught you.

Yes, taking five minutes to send an e-mail reply to ask for some kind of clarification assuming an honest mistake was made is the patient approach.

Why? The student was clearly caught. There is no clarification needed. That isn't an opinion. That is a fact.

but there is no strict rule stating that they cannot be referenced to as a study aide a student could just as easily ask students who have taken the same course in a previous term.

Huh? There are actually many schools that DO in fact have such a rule.

[Ttownbeast]

At our institution (which is an R1 research institution), virtually all tenure and tenure-track faculty have pedagogical training. You're relaying your personal experiences as statistically meaningful, when in fact they're not. that's your institution alone so we are comparing apples and oranges.



As with any profession, there can be some deadwood. Fortunately, those usually don't get tenure or if they do they end up as administrators.
not really the best place for dead wood I'll agree with you there.


You're joking, right? If you want to make money in academia, you don't teach. You either do research (i.e., grants) or get into administration.depends on the field--Artists for example make better money in teaching even if they are horrible I ran through my share of talentless hacks more interested in the criticism of art than the application they said there was better money in it. I had one of the best instructors in psychology his teaching methods were top form he stated the reason he wasn't a psychiatrist making 100 bucks an hour was simple he hated hearing peoples problems. My science teachers were strange ones though i never quite figured them out I think they just liked playing with the lab equippment.



Seriously. I'm beginning to think you're just trolling. Every year faculty are reviewed on their teaching, principally by peers and by student evaluations. If trends occur that demonstrate inadequacies in the classroom then that professor (usually an assistant professor) is assigned a mentor from the tenured faculty. If he/she does not improve, then they won't get tenure. On average, about 40% of assistant professors don't get tenure. After 5 years, you're gone.I don't put much stock in peer reviews when the entire system is riddled with flaws you said so yourself there is dead wood in the college system--suppose some of that dead wood are "peers"--tenure just means they cannot fire you no matter the level of ones incompetence some mediocre ones can sit long enough and pass below the radar sadly.

[sushi]

What was meant was quite clear. Those who don't want to believe it are finding all sorts of excuses trying to wiggle out what was clearly meant.
Agree with you. The original e-mail is quite revealing.

If the OP had wanted to find out what was on the examination, he could have easily e-mailed his professor.

[thegoldenmackid]

wow thanks guys!!

The funny thing is..even when i was out sick, I'd email him all my professors and give them status updates on how I was feeling. Every single teacher EXPECT this guy emailed me back. And it's funny that his first email to me is threatening me.

Yeah he is threatening you because what you did could get you kicked out. At the school that I am out you would get suspended because soliciting cheating is not allowed. And that's what you did, whether or not it was your intent you asked a question that on paper clearly reads like it is cheating, you went about the wrong methods and a logical response from a peer would be something that is clearly cheating.

Your characterization of the professor seems that you are never going to accept what you did as wrong, but that's your loss. It's near unanimous that you were in the wrong, and the majority seem to think your professor's reaction was not off of what one would assume a reaction to be.

[Ttownbeast]

You have none. Your post came off to me as someone who was caught in the past and still fuming that the teacher caught you. You don't read people very well do you? I don't blame you it's kind of difficult to get a read on somebody between two computer screens and keyboards.



Why? The student was clearly caught. There is no clarification needed. That isn't an opinion. That is a fact.
the matter is not that clear every student has the right to due process even in the college system since most accept money from public funds. but regulation is not universal.


Huh? There are actually many schools that DO in fact have such a rule.
How many? this goes into statistics again we can play "I show you mine you show me yours' but statistics are the most damnable manipulatable psudo mathematics out there that true mathematicians have little regard for them (not me though I am no mathematician but I have questioned a few on the subject).

[jecapaga]

Agree with you. The original e-mail is quite revealing.

If the OP had wanted to find out what was on the examination, he could have easily e-mailed his professor.

^^Agreed. I don't know if it's been brought up but as a fellow classmate, I would've been pissed getting that email. After studying hard and trying my best, the last thing I would do is tell another student how to skate by and have an easier experience on a test.

[Ttownbeast]

Ok, why would he e-mail his professor if it were not something as innocent as needing information for studying for a make up test? If he was cheating that would definitely make him dishonest, and secondly too stupid to be in college in the first place by asking the teacher for the cheat sheet. Paranoia breeds mistrust in this situation--of course the kid could be lying about the whole situation but I am investing nothing but my own opinion as the rest of you are but rather than being cynical concerning his story I offered my interpretation of events as presented presuming innocence first.

[jecapaga]

Ok, why would he e-mail his professor if it were not something as innocent as needing information for studying for a make up test? If he was cheating that would definitely make him dishonest, and secondly too stupid to be in college in the first place by asking the teacher for the cheat sheet. Paranoia breeds mistrust in this situation--of course the kid could be lying about the whole situation but I am investing nothing but my own opinion as the rest of you are but rather than being cynical concerning his story I offered my interpretation of events as presented presuming innocence first.

That's not innocent in my book. Getting information from other students as to what a test covers prior to taking the test is cheating. Clear. Simple. Especially when this info was not available to every other student.

[Dros]

In my classes I require that if someone misses a test they cannot talk to any student about any aspect of the test. Not even "was it difficult?". A question like, "what did it cover?" can tell them to study up on particular lectures and ignore others. How could that possibly be a fair test?

[Ttownbeast]

That's not innocent in my book. Getting information from other students as to what a test covers prior to taking the test is cheating. Clear. Simple. Especially when this info was not available to every other student.

Asking for chapters covered doesn't seem to me as cheating it seems to me that the kid still has to read absorb and retain the information for later use the test if administered correctly proves if the data has been absorbed and/or the student can apply the knowledge meaningfully (last I checked it was pretty hard to cheat on an essay which most college exams consist of)--oh and if kids are allowed to use notes during a test by an instructor then is that cheating too? I gotta love the rigidness with which many assume there are absolute rights and wrongs with no gray areas, and no one commits errors that things are just the way they are--I just get a laugh out of the people who say "but the rules state" like we are all machines.

[Zombie Acorn]

Stop ranting.

As someone who taught college courses for two years, I would feel the same as the professor. I read that and instantly thought of someone looking for a review of the test everyone took. If you're going to send this stuff out, use some basic sense and not include your teacher in the mass email. That's just dumb. Don't give a teacher a blatant red flag.

On a related note, don't facebook friend request your professors. If they add you, remember they are on your friend list and can see status updates and wall posts you make on classmates' profiles. I've seen some interesting stuff on facebook from one student to another, and all I had to do was login to my account and there it was, sitting in the news feed.

I have a few of my professors added, they usually comment on my status :D

Hell one time I had "blackboard just shut down in the middle of a test. fml." and the prof commented asking if it was for their course. lol. I must have extremely cool professors.

Then again I wouldn't ever do anything like mass mail to see what was on a test.

[rhsgolfer33]

Hey all,

I was out last week sick, i was wondering what Mr. Racers first test covered.

Thanks

I don't see anything wrong with that as long as you were asking what the test covered, not what each question was on, not for ultra-specific material or answers. I would hope that any professor administering a test to someone who missed the original test would use a different version anyways. Asking what a test covered (ie what chapters or concepts) is vastly different than asking what exactly was on the test. I could very easily tell you that the test covered chapters 1-8 of the tax book or that it covered the concepts of Partnership Accounting and Investment Accounting and clearly neither one of us would be cheating.

At the very least your professor should have found out what you were actually seeking before jumping to such hasty unsupported conclusions.

It is inappropriate for you to ask such a question. It is a common thing among your generation to not understand this.

Asking what a test covered is inappropriate? The wording of his email is so vague you couldn't possibly have an idea of what exactly he was asking for; he could just as easily be asking for the chapters the test covered as for more specific information. I'd also be very surprised if this were a generational difference.

I'm sure everyone here has never once asked a peer what chapters or concepts a test covered during their academic career.


Again, the question should have been asked of the professor, not the classmates.

I've found that most professors prefer not to be bothered with questions about "what you missed when you were absent" and encourage you to find out from your peers.

[Zombie Acorn]

I don't see anything wrong with that as long as you were asking what the test covered, not what each question was on, not for ultra-specific material or answers. I would hope that any professor administering a test to someone who missed the original test would use a different version anyways. Asking what a test covered (ie what chapters or concepts) is vastly different than asking what exactly was on the test. I could very easily tell you that the test covered chapters 1-8 of the tax book or that it covered the concepts of Partnership Accounting and Investment Accounting and clearly neither one of us would be cheating.

At the very least your professor should have found out what you were actually seeking before jumping to such hasty unsupported conclusions.



Asking what a test covered is inappropriate? The wording of his email is so vague you couldn't possibly have an idea of what exactly he was asking for; he could just as easily be asking for the chapters the test covered as for more specific information. I'd also be very surprised if this were a generational difference.

I'm sure everyone here has never once asked a peer what chapters or concepts a test covered during their academic career.



I've found that most professors prefer not to be bothered with questions about "what you missed when you were absent" and encourage you to find out from your peers.

I've never heard of being sick in college as an excuse to not find out what is being covered in class so you can keep up. He was gone for a week, he most likely has a syllabus that roughly covers the class. If not he should have called the professor so he could do his studies while missing class.

We are talking college courses here also, that's usually 3 courses a week at most be missed. (Ive been to two colleges and they both had mwf tth schedules. I think the intent of the poster was to get a leg up on the test. Did the poster ever say whether he originally sent this message to the prof? I would have turned him in.

[Badandy]

As an academically honest student, I just decidedly disagree with the sentiment in this thread. Please correct me if I'm wrong in how I'm perceiving this:

He didn't know what chapters were testable (misplaced/incomplete syllabus etc...). The professor told the class what chapters the test would cover prior to the test while the OP was absent from class. He asked for what material was testable.

I really feel like the following question needs to be answered before we can say he was in error.

TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER:

What was the original intent of your mass email?

Was it to:

A. find out what material was emphasized on the test from material that was able to be tested?

B. find out what chapters or time-periods were able to be tested at all?

Please answer this so we can all stop arguing with each other.

[robbieduncan]

He didn't know what chapters were testable (misplaced/incomplete syllabus etc...). The professor told the class what chapters the test would cover prior to the test while the OP was absent from class. He asked for what material was testable.

Unless I've missed something a lot of this is supposition. I've had numerous classes where we were simply told "you may be tested on any material covered in class or the required readings". The test then contains a very small subset of this. In this case finding out which parts were tested, even without the questions, would be gaining a significant and unfair advantage (cheating).

[DiamondMac]

the matter is not that clear every student has the right to due process even in the college system since most accept money from public funds.

I have been doing law for years now. What in god's name are you talking about?

Due process is afforded to SOME students who have been caught and turned into a Disciplinary Board. No due process is needed to be given to the student in this situation WHEN HE IS GETTING A DAMN WARNING.

Even then, what the hell does accepting public funds have to do with anything? Be specific on this answer too as I have a sneaking idea you are going to try to make some assertion that has no basis to it other than what you think.

How many?

Every single law school that I have taught at as a guest teacher or attended. Numerous LLM schools that I have visited.

Do you want me to go on?

The fact that you think no rule exist about giving information from a past class tells me you just haven't the faintest clue what rules are actually in place at many institutions for higher learning.

[DiamondMac]

I don't see anything wrong with that as long as you were asking what the test covered, not what each question was on, not for ultra-specific material or answers.

That makes absolutely no difference whether "ultra-specific material" was given or not.

Cheating is Cheating and getting any sort of advantage as to what was and wasn't on the test....is an unfair advantage.

[CylonGlitch]

Hey all,

I was out last week sick, i was wondering what Mr. Racers first test covered.

Thanks

For those who have since graduated college; think back if you had gotten this email from another student.

a) If you don't know them, you'd be, WTF?? Heck, I might have even forwarded it to the professor myself.

b) If they were someone you knew from class and knew they were out sick but not really friends with. The response might be, "It covers chapter 1 to 10; with a focus on 3 and 8."

c) A friend. "It was supposed to be on chapters 1 to 10 but it was really on chapters 3 and 8. Make sure you understand topics A, B, and C really good because that was 80 to 90%. Oh yeah, don't forget to review Question #3 in Chapter 2 because he had one just like that on there."

d) A Frat Brother. "Dude it was so much like last years test! I have a copy of that I'll get it for you. Three questions from Chapter 3, four from Chapter 8, and one from Chapter #2 -- question #2 in the review is EXACT the same question. I wrote down a few of the other questions, see the attachment."


Throwing a general question out like "What does it cover" is like using the shotgun approach. There is a good chance you will hit something that will give you more information then you should have had. This wasn't one or two emails to friends, this was to EVERYONE in the class, someone was bound to give him more information then what they had going in.

My guess is that there is a website / blog for the class, there was two links, "professor email", "class email" and he clicked class email and then didn't bother to check to see if that included the professor or not.

It does sound like he was trying to get more information then he should have. I would call it cheating. The professor should either fail him for the test, or give him a test that would be damn near impossible to pass unless he REALLY knows the subject.

To those who want to do this, ask your friends face to face, don't send emails like this where you are putting it in writing that you are cheating. Never put things in writing. At least, at very minimum is to NOT use the universities email accounts -- yes, sys admins can and do scan emails!

[yojitani]

Why is this topic continuing (he asks as he continues it!)?

Look at it this way. Say that the class had covered chapters 1 - 5 of a textbook and you were to receive an exam on those chapters. You would revise those chapters not knowing what exactly would show up on the test. From an educator's point of view, that is the point of the test. Studying reinforces areas that the test may not cover. Now student X misses the test and then asks his/her classmates what the test covers. Even if this is meant in the most general way, the question defeats the purpose of the test. It also gives student X an unfair advantage since s/he might get the information, for example, that the test covers chapters 1 and 4.

CylonGlitch has the possibilities covered.

[Signal-11]

While the professor's response was abrupt, if he thought you were attempting to do what it reads like you were attempting to do he would have every right to initiate disciplinary proceedings in accordance to your college's honor code.

I don't think that would get very far before the game got called off on account of the student's stupidity.

Speaking as a college professor, rescheduling tests to accommodate students creates a great deal of extra work for us. So much so that some of my colleagues simply refuse to do it. If you are sick, you miss the test, too bad. I do it providing it is an unavoidable situation, because sometimes things just happen.

Yes, it is a lot of work and a big headache, but it's a part of the job. It's my opinion that professors who won't reasonably accommodate extenuating circumstances are lazy and irresponsible. If he or she doesn't like make-ups or reschedules, there should be some mechanism to account for unexpected events. Otherwise, he's not taking his teaching commitment seriously enough.

[swiftaw]

Yes, it is a lot of work and a big headache, but it's a part of the job. It's my opinion that professors who won't reasonably accommodate extenuating circumstances are lazy and irresponsible. If he or she doesn't like make-ups or reschedules, there should be some mechanism to account for unexpected events. Otherwise, he's not taking his teaching commitment seriously enough.

I agree, which is why I offer make up tests if there are unavoidable circumstances. However, I also refuse makeups for other reasons, for example, if the student chooses to go on vacation during the semester.

[Zombie Acorn]

The fact that you think no rule exist about giving information from a past class tells me you just haven't the faintest clue what rules are actually in place at many institutions for higher learning.

I have to agree here, this rule is stated in the academic honesty policy in most colleges. Violation of the academic honesty policies usually lands you in front of a disciplinary board with possibility for expulsion, I recently turned a kid in for plagiarism (its senior level work, no excuse).

[mags631]

I would send a short, well-thought out apology taking responsibility and explaining (briefly) my intentions. I don't think you need to offer to take a zero on the test, unless you actually were given material -- this offer is mostly a mind-game, and you are not going to endear yourself to the professor with it. In this email you need to point out that:
1) You were in the wrong because of such poorly asked question
2) Clarify whether you actually received information about the test and if you did what kind of information it is
3) Thank him for calling you out and teaching you a valuable lesson about being thoughtful and clear in your communications.

The net is either you were looking for advantage or you were being sloppy in your communication. Next time, try to impress your professor with professionalism and clear communication instead of the typical sloppy student approach to school.

[abijnk]

Just a general comment. This is a matter of ethics, and the company I work for uses a phrase in their training that I think people need to keep in mind more often, and definitely applies in this situation.

Ethics isn't just about doing the right thing, its also about avoiding the appearance of impropriety.

The OP's intentions might have been innocent enough, but its not the professor's job to delve down into your intentions. Again, appearance of impropriety.

[rhsgolfer33]

I've never heard of being sick in college as an excuse to not find out what is being covered in class so you can keep up. He was gone for a week, he most likely has a syllabus that roughly covers the class. If not he should have called the professor so he could do his studies while missing class.

I've been told since junior high school to find out what I missed from my peers, why would I stop now?

We are talking college courses here also, that's usually 3 courses a week at most be missed. (Ive been to two colleges and they both had mwf tth schedules. I think the intent of the poster was to get a leg up on the test. Did the poster ever say whether he originally sent this message to the prof? I would have turned him in.

3 course a week? If you're taking four classes (which is often required to graduate in four years if you're taking 3-4 unit course) you would miss 8 classes, considering they're often held twice a week (ie Tuesday and Thursday or Monday and Wednesday).

That's exactly it, "you think." You have no evidence of what his intent actually was and neither does the professor. Its relatively easy to misunderstand the intent of an email and unless you were in his head you'll never know what his intent was. The professor could at least have called him in to his office (far more appropriate than sending an email in this situation) and talked to him about it, instead of reacting like a pompous jerk.

That makes absolutely no difference whether "ultra-specific material" was given or not.

Cheating is Cheating and getting any sort of advantage as to what was and wasn't on the test....is an unfair advantage.

Yeah, it kind of does. Finding out what chapters a test covers is vastly different than finding out what exactly is on a test (ie what the questions focused on, what some of the questions were, etc.). I've never had a professor that didn't inform the class of what chapters the test covers during class, finding out what he told the class is pretty different than finding out precisely what is on a test. If I received that email I would have replied with, "Chapters 1-4" or "Partnership Accounting and Investment Accounting."

His wording is, at best, vague as to what he is seeking. The professor could have very easily sent him a professional quality email instead of the threatening in tone one that he did or better yet he could have called him into his office, considering he had no possible knowledge of whether the student was seeking specific information or vague information that was available to the rest of the class prior to taking the test.

I would send a short, well-thought out apology taking responsibility and explaining (briefly) my intentions. I don't think you need to offer to take a zero on the test, unless you actually were given material -- this offer is mostly a mind-game, and you are not going to endear yourself to the professor with it. In this email you need to point out that:
1) You were in the wrong because of such poorly asked question
2) Clarify whether you actually received information about the test and if you did what kind of information it is
3) Thank him for calling you out and teaching you a valuable lesson about being thoughtful and clear in your communications.

The net is either you were looking for advantage or you were being sloppy in your communication. Next time, try to impress your professor with professionalism and clear communication instead of the typical sloppy student approach to school.

That is probably what I would do. Better yet, I would probably just go talk to him during his office hours. Why everyone relies so much on email to communicate to their professors I'll never know (I'd much rather go communicate with them in person so they learn who I am and so that I in turn become closer to that professor; makes it much easier to get graduate school recommendations when a professor actually recognizes you and better yet, knows who you are).

[Zombie Acorn]

I've been told since junior high school to find out what I missed from my peers, why would I stop now?

Because now it has consequences such as expulsion. :) Good luck using the "ive done this since junior high" bit at the disciplinary hearing. Professors have enough trouble with kids distributing tests, etc from the previous semester.



3 course a week? If you're taking four classes (which is often required to graduate in four years if you're taking 3-4 unit course) you would miss 8 classes, considering they're often held twice a week (ie Tuesday and Thursday or Monday and Wednesday).


I meant at most 3 classes of that particular course the test was in (I was on my ipod touch). Its not like he missed a month of classes.



That's exactly it, "you think." You have no evidence of what his intent actually was and neither does the professor. Its relatively easy to misunderstand the intent of an email and unless you were in his head you'll never know what his intent was. The professor could at least have called him in to his office (far more appropriate than sending an email in this situation) and talked to him about it, instead of reacting like a pompous jerk.

I think his intent was quite clear by mass mailing the class who had already taken the test, asking what was covered on the test.

[rhsgolfer33]

Because now it has consequences such as expulsion. :) Good luck using the "ive done this since junior high" bit at the disciplinary hearing. Professors have enough trouble with kids distributing tests, etc from the previous semester.

I've been encouraged in college, as well, to find out what I missed from my peers. The thing is, I don't usually need to. I email the professor to tell them I'm going to be out, I ask if we're going to do anything different than what is on the syllabus, I look at the syllabus, check the professors box for any handouts, and I'm pretty much caught up. In rare cases I'll call or email other students if I did not get to email the professor letting him/her know I would be missing class or if the professor didn't respond to my email. I also don't email the entire class, ever. Make some friends in your classes that you can call or talk to in person.

Professors have enough trouble with kids distributing tests, etc from the previous semester.

Its relatively easy to stop that from happening. Professors don't have to allow students to keep their tests. Once a test is kept by a student professors should understand that there is 100% guarantee that somebody in the class the next semester will see it. If you don't want that to happen, or you recycle tests, don't let your students keep their exams.

I meant at most 3 classes of that particular course the test was in (I was on my ipod touch). Its not like he missed a month of classes..

Got it; but it is still tough to recover from even a week of missed classes.

I think his intent was quite clear by mass mailing the class who had already taken the test, asking what was covered on the test.

You think it was clear, there are others think it was quite vague. He clearly should have written a more specific email.

[mkrishnan]

Ethics isn't just about doing the right thing, its also about avoiding the appearance of impropriety.

The general idea that one is really, often, as or more responsible for the way one's actions are interpreted than the way they were intended, is a really important lesson... It's hard to get really good at the practice of always avoiding the appearance of impropriety, though! Tough challenge.

[ucfgrad93]

Just a general comment. This is a matter of ethics, and the company I work for uses a phrase in their training that I think people need to keep in mind more often, and definitely applies in this situation.

Ethics isn't just about doing the right thing, its also about avoiding the appearance of impropriety.

The OP's intentions might have been innocent enough, but its not the professor's job to delve down into your intentions. Again, appearance of impropriety.

Wise words, my friend. Thanks for sharing them.

[DiamondMac]

I don't think that would get very far before the game got called off on account of the student's stupidity.

Why would the game get called out due to stupidity? The stupidity is the reason it would continue.

Yes, it is a lot of work and a big headache, but it's a part of the job. .
In many cases, it isn't. I say many cases because missing a test for whatever reason should in fact mean the student got a 0 though teachers give opportunities to make it up through make-up tests which are NOT REQUIRED

Now, if someone has an excused absence....then I agree.

[DiamondMac]

Finding out what chapters a test covers is vastly different than finding out what exactly is on a test (ie what the questions focused on, what some of the questions were, etc.). I've never had a professor that didn't inform the class of what chapters the test covers during class, finding out what he told the class is pretty different than finding out precisely what is on a test. If I received that email I would have replied with, "Chapters 1-4" or "Partnership Accounting and Investment Accounting."

If done before the exam is given, that is fine.

But when someone asks

what Mr. Racers first test covered.

It is very obviously asking what the questions on the test covered

That is cheating plain and simple

[Rodimus Prime]

I've been encouraged in college, as well, to find out what I missed from my peers. The thing is, I don't usually need to. I email the professor to tell them I'm going to be out, I ask if we're going to do anything different than what is on the syllabus, I look at the syllabus, check the professors box for any handouts, and I'm pretty much caught up. In rare cases I'll call or email other students if I did not get to email the professor letting him/her know I would be missing class or if the professor didn't respond to my email. I also don't email the entire class, ever. Make some friends in your classes that you can call or talk to in person.




Yes you may be told to find out from your peers but that means you ask 1 or 2 of your friends in the class.
Sending out a mass email like that raises a lot and I mean A LOT of red flags. That was the mistake made.

I been on the receiving end of an over reaction by a professor and this was not an over reaction. You want an over reaction is when professor grab me after class and said she knew I was cheating and was going to figure out how. That was the over reaction to my test scores in a matter of 2 test going from near the lowest in the class to class high.

[Ttownbeast]

I have been doing law for years now. What in god's name are you talking about?

Due process is afforded to SOME students who have been caught and turned into a Disciplinary Board. No due process is needed to be given to the student in this situation WHEN HE IS GETTING A DAMN WARNING.

Due process applies for all levels of disciplinary action in an educational setting it does not just involve disciplinary boards, due process starts with the teacher in the room at the moment of the act just the same as it starts with the officer investigating a traffic infraction at the scene of the incident before the matter even reaches any disciplinary body such as a court or a board. I don't know what law you've been "doing" you could clarify that a bit.

[rhsgolfer33]

If done before the exam is given, that is fine.

It is very obviously asking what the questions on the test covered

That is cheating plain and simple

Except its still not that plain and simple. What "Mr. Racer's first test covered" could just as easily imply what chapters as more detailed information on the test. You can certainly still find out what chapters a test covered even if the rest of the class has already taken the test. Now if he was intending to get answers with specifics, I would entirely agree with you. For instance, if he wanted to know that the test was heavily focused on installment liquidation calculations and creating liquidation advanced distribution plans. For me the question was phrased so vaguely I would hesitate to jump to the hasty conclusion that he was attempting to cheat.

Yes you may be told to find out from your peers but that means you ask 1 or 2 of your friends in the class.
Sending out a mass email like that raises a lot and I mean A LOT of red flags. That was the mistake made.

I entirely agree. But the simple fact that he sent it to the whole class doesn't mean he was trying to cheat; does it raise red flags? Yes, but the professor could have been more professional in dealing with the situation. Calling the student in for a talk would have been more appropriate than jumping to conclusions.

[jessica.]

wow thanks guys!!

The funny thing is..even when i was out sick, I'd email him all my professors and give them status updates on how I was feeling. Every single teacher EXPECT this guy emailed me back. And it's funny that his first email to me is threatening me.

You are wrong and the above does clearly show that despite most replies supporting your professor in his thinking (not to say they support the manner in which he responded), says to me that you're going to equate this to him not really caring about you. This is college, depending upon the size of the school professors do not see you, they see a number. It could be more intimate in your college, but that is the case in many colleges.

Hopefully you can save face and stick it out in the class.

[Ttownbeast]

It seems simple enough to me in the sense that many people assume guilt first due to personal issues of distrust and jump to that conclusion rather than taking a moment to investigate objectively--not exactly presuming innocence before any guilt is proven, but at least admitting you don't know and studying a matter further.

[sushi]

Ok, why would he e-mail his professor if it were not something as innocent as needing information for studying for a make up test?
Yes, why not?

The professor is the one giving the class. Why would you not go to the source?

[Signal-11]

Why would the game get called out due to stupidity? The stupidity is the reason it would continue.

Taking the events as a whole... It's like when professional athletes get caught 'cheating.' Sometimes, they're not cheating, they're just plain stupid. It's become fairly evident to me what side of the line this is on.

In many cases, it isn't. I say many cases because missing a test for whatever reason should in fact mean the student got a 0 though teachers give opportunities to make it up through make-up tests which are NOT REQUIRED

Now, if someone has an excused absence....then I agree.

"Excused absence"? What are you talking about, grade school?

I'm talking about a guy in my class saying he can't make the mid-term date because it coincides with his National Guard drill and you're talking about "excused absences." I don't think we're on the same wavelength.

Anyway, teaching is a two way street. Required or not, if you're not willing to put extra effort into your teaching on behalf of your students, then maybe you shouldn't expect your students to put extra effort as your students.

[CylonGlitch]

Except its still not that plain and simple. What "Mr. Racer's first test covered" could just as easily imply what chapters as more detailed information on the test. You can certainly still find out what chapters a test covered even if the rest of the class has already taken the test.

Except sending it out to the whole class means that there is almost 100% chance he will get more information then he should. SOMEONE will give him more details. Unless he is despised by the entire class; he will get more then he should.

From the way that the has responded to some of the posts here, I would say that he knew he would get more. Maybe not answers, but more details.

[DiamondMac]

Due process applies for all levels of disciplinary action in an educational setting

Remind me again what disciplinary action is being taken here?

due process starts with the teacher in the room at the moment of the act just the same as it starts with the officer investigating a traffic infraction at the scene of the incident before the matter even reaches any disciplinary body such as a court or a board.

Excluding the incredibly off-topic and incorrect assertion of due process, again....what does that have to do with the current situation?

I don't know what law you've been "doing" you could clarify that a bit.

Criminal Litigation, Tax, & Corporate mergers. I practice for a living as well as teach.

Having been inside several Universities where situations like this happened, it is borderline comical to think of you trying to state this case to any board.

[Ttownbeast]

Criminal Litigation, Tax, & Corporate mergers. I practice for a living as well as teach.

Having been inside several Universities where situations like this happened, it is borderline comical to think of you trying to state this case to any board.

What is comical is that you're using this as your basis for your teaching expertise. My background is in art but my coursework included the specifics of educational psychology, classroom management, special needs students, study of the laws directly related to education and a hundred other courses to hone my combined management skills and expertise on the subject I chose at that time to teach. You give a general interpretation based on being a lawyer it's not all that simple.

[DiamondMac]

What is comical is that you're using this as your basis for your teaching expertise.

I know, it is extremely comical to use real life experience on an issue being discussed.

Your idiotic due process argument tells me you are someone who watches Law & Order and believes throwing out a few legal terms to an issue will mean something will stick.

Due process in this instance....what?

If the kid is being kicked out, then a board discusses the issue but this? Where exactly? I see you just skipped over that previous comment by me.

[Ttownbeast]

I know, it is extremely comical to use real life experience on an issue being discussed.

Your idiotic due process argument tells me you are someone who watches Law & Order and believes throwing out a few legal terms to an issue will mean something will stick.

Due process in this instance....what?

If the kid is being kicked out, then a board discusses the issue but this? Where exactly? I see you just skipped over that previous comment by me.

Issuing the warning is just as much a corrective disciplinary action as expulsion had the matter been taken to that level that is one of the basics in classroom management. As for your experience let me put it to you this way--I don't hire a cement mason to wire my house just because he watched an electrician at every construction site. These are separate professions it is just the same as hiring a lawyer to teach and it seems to me your credentials don't exactly parallel those of a general contractor in construction (let's say a law professor trained to teach and knowledgeable in both fields efficiently enough to convey the concepts) they could likely run circles around the both of us. Every specialty from the builder to the teacher to the guy at the pizza joint is usually more specifically trained on the laws that effect their fields directly(building codes, state standards for testing and student behavior, health codes, employees rights and worker safety etc) than the entirety of the law in general, you give no other profession credit for their own regulation with your "I'm doing law so I'm right all the time" drivel.

[DiamondMac]

Issuing the warning is just as much a corrective disciplinary action as expulsion

Well no, they aren't even close to being similar and I would be interested in hearing how they are similar when both give very different results to the student. One stays on the students record for the rest of his life while the other is never put on record and gone after the student graduates. While one has you put in front of a board and possibly kicked out of school (while put on your permanent record), the other is simply an email given to no other besides the teacher and the student.

How exactly are those similar?

As for your experience let me put it to you this way--I don't hire a cement mason to wire my house just because he watched an electrician at every construction site. These are separate professions it is just the same as hiring a lawyer to teach and it seems to me your credentials don't exactly parallel those of a general contractor in construction (let's say a law professor trained to teach and knowledgeable in both fields efficiently enough to convey the concepts) they could likely run circles around the both of us. Every specialty from the builder to the teacher to the guy at the pizza joint is usually more specifically trained on the laws that effect their fields directly(building codes, state standards for testing and student behavior, health codes, employees rights and worker safety etc) than the entirety of the law in general, you give no other profession credit for their own regulation with your "I'm doing law so I'm right all the time" drivel.

Well no, the credit I give myself is someone who has worked at a University (i.e. School just in case you struggled with that) and someone who has dealt with issues of cheating in instances such as this one. You have nothing to say to that so your best excuse seems to be just either ignoring it or discrediting it, either of which continues your only argument which seems to be diverting the topic to something else.

There are people on this thread who have given reasonable reasons for their argument. Fair enough. You, on the other hand, keep arguing these topics that are laughable at best. Due Process? Public funds?

[bruinsrme]

When I was a technical trainer I used the test and quizes to gauge the students, my delivery, and the content.

Having a bank of over 500 questions, it was unlikely the students would be able to gather enough of the questions to cheat.

But I sure did have fun with the students, for example making all the answers on a multiple choice test all the same.

I have read this thread over the last couple of days.
The question of what is on the test can be inferred as a blatant act of cheating..
It could be innocent enough where the words used were not intended in a negative manner.
Imagine walking into a bank and your sitting with your child and they pull something out of a bag and ask what that is. You reply, innocently, this is a stick up......the deodorizer of course. Stick up probably isn't something you should say in a bank.

Quite possible this is the case here, but having been a student at one time and a technical trainer I am leaning toward the cheating side of town on this one.

But whether it is or isn't if I did something like this I would talk with the professor immmediately regardless of my original intent.

[Capt Crunch]

I'm a TA and if I got your email I'd be sending a similar nasty-gram. You're lucky you don't go to UVA or some similar school with a single-sanction of expulsion.

You have got to clear this up with your professor if your intentions were innocent.

Anyone who thinks the professor is overreacting must take cheating lightly. Cheaters are scum that in most cases deserve to be kicked out of whatever academic institution they are at.

[Iscariot]

As an academically honest student, I just decidedly disagree with the sentiment in this thread. Please correct me if I'm wrong in how I'm perceiving this:

Please answer this so we can all stop arguing with each other.

Even if his intentions were pure as driven snow, it was still a poor choice that bordered on breaching academic guidelines. At best, it was an incredibly stupid thing to do.

[Rodimus Prime]

I would like to add more to this defending the professor actions. Professors are sick of the blatant cheating going in their classes most of which they can not prove.
Take for example a student knew while I was at college. He would cheat on close books test by hiding his text book in the restroom and when he got to a problem he was stuck on he told the prof that he "needed to go to the bathroom". He would go look up the answer and back to the test. He would go 3-4 times during every test. Or he would hide a piece of paper with notes on it. it was very bad. One of the professor was getting sick of it and tired to get him expelled. Hell the kid went in front of the review board at least once if not twice and got away scott free. Students could not stand him for this cheating either because it ruins the value of our degree because he was so dishonest.
This kid was a weasal. He got caught cheating on one test. Proff threw him out and gave him a zero for it. He argued it and went over the prof head and force the grade to be changed. Weasel of a kid. My GF who was a TA had troubles with him and went to the prof about it and he just said give him what you think he deserve I will back you 100% (and that how she learned about how much the prof hated this kid) I think he got a D and he was pissed about it but tired to argue it. To bad for him that there was proof that showed he earned that grade.

It is very difficult to expelled a student even more so when it is a student who knows every loophole in the book.

[Ttownbeast]

Again we assume dishonesty on the part of the student with the "kill them all let god sort them out" attitude. This is the biggest reason why I decided not to teach and went into a better paying job (I still tutor individuals and small groups privately for a commission on my own time). I've seen the cynical nature of many teachers assuming the worst of students rather than remaining objective in the field many of the teachers I have assisted while student teaching would go to their peers for advice and wind up getting a lot of opinionated gossip instead. Good educators dismiss this as garbage and try not to let it effect their professionalism by instituting preventative measures to minimize the problems before they get worse, if a teacher complains a lot about the behavior of their students there's fair odds they don't know what the hell they are doing.

[Ttownbeast]

Even if his intentions were pure as driven snow, it was still a poor choice that bordered on breaching academic guidelines. At best, it was an incredibly stupid thing to do.

Students will make poor choices they are learning isn't that the point?

[dmr727]

I think the professor overreacted a bit, but then again I'm usually one to give the benefit of the doubt in situations like this. If it were me, I would have called the student (OP) in to discuss it personally.

That said - like others have mentioned - the wording of the e-mail could definitely have been better. It's like dealing with security at the airport, you don't want to make comments that could even remotely be construed the wrong way.

[mags631]

Students will make poor choices they are learning isn't that the point?

And this professor, while it was done in a gruff manner, did give him a second chance. Frankly, I think the tone was fine especially for the university level. The students are no longer kids, they are young adults. If they cannot handle direct communication, then they have much larger issues.

[Ttownbeast]

I think the professor overreacted a bit, but then again I'm usually one to give the benefit of the doubt in situations like this. If it were me, I would have called the student (OP) in to discuss it personally.

That said - like others have mentioned - the wording of the e-mail could definitely have been better. It's like dealing with security at the airport, you don't want to make comments that could even remotely be construed the wrong way.

Oh hell especially not at an airport some of those guys don't even have GEDs or speak English very well.

[FOXEO]

If I were that professor, I would have cited you officially for academic dishonesty and turned it in immediately.

You asked people who already took a test that you didn't what was on it, basically.

[sikkinixx]

This type of stuff can be slippery. I've had a prof accuse me of cheating (pen died during a test so I pulled another one out from my bag, he thought I was looking at notes or something despite the fact that my bag only had gym clothes and pens, whiteout, etc. in it). He was snarky about it, I got offended.... and ended up having another prof mark my test. Point is, don't overreact. Just explain yourself, apologize for poorly chosen words and hope he doesn't think his MA/PhD means he is better than you. A lot of profs and TA's have this ****ing power complex that unfortunately is part of undergrad life.

[Badandy]

This type of stuff can be slippery. I've had a prof accuse me of cheating (pen died during a test so I pulled another one out from my bag, he thought I was looking at notes or something despite the fact that my bag only had gym clothes and pens, whiteout, etc. in it). He was snarky about it, I got offended.... and ended up having another prof mark my test. Point is, don't overreact. Just explain yourself, apologize for poorly chosen words and hope he doesn't think his MA/PhD means he is better than you. A lot of profs and TA's have this ****ing power complex that unfortunately is part of undergrad life.

This.

I understand professors need to be cautious and skeptical, but some have the egos of Michael Jordan.

[DiamondMac]

This type of stuff can be slippery. I've had a prof accuse me of cheating (pen died during a test so I pulled another one out from my bag, he thought I was looking at notes or something despite the fact that my bag only had gym clothes and pens, whiteout, etc. in it). He was snarky about it, I got offended.... and ended up having another prof mark my test. Point is, don't overreact. Just explain yourself, apologize for poorly chosen words and hope he doesn't think his MA/PhD means he is better than you. A lot of profs and TA's have this ****ing power complex that unfortunately is part of undergrad life.

You got offended that a teacher was suspicious about someone reaching into their bag during a test?

I don't blame the teacher.

I have seen students doing just that before AND were reaching for cheat sheets

[agkm800]

I would print out your initial email and the professor's reply and take them to the dean and tell him/her how offended you are by the professor's reply. It's best to let a credible third person know the whole story in case it turns nasty between you and the professor.

[173080]

Hey all,

I was out last week sick, i was wondering what Mr. Racers first test covered.

Thanks

I think you worded it quite well. It is ambiguous enough that your professor has no proof that you attempted to cheat, yet open ended so that other students may offer you specific information although you never explicity requested it.

You should check the specific rules at your university, but at mine it would be impossible for the professor to take any sort of action over a message with such clever wording.

I've been accused of "academic dishonesty" at my university and due to certain precautions I took I was able to take the side of "You are making a very serious accusation without sufficient proof, I find this very offensive and I don't take it lightly." I had the professors apologize to me, instead of me kissing up to them.

[oldschool]

I'm a TA and if I got your email I'd be sending a similar nasty-gram. You're lucky you don't go to UVA or some similar school with a single-sanction of expulsion.

You have got to clear this up with your professor if your intentions were innocent.

Anyone who thinks the professor is overreacting must take cheating lightly. Cheaters are scum that in most cases deserve to be kicked out of whatever academic institution they are at.



You've got to be kidding. That is not even close to cheating...if the professor was worth his salt he would have a different version of the exam already prepared for people who missed it to take as a "make up".

He could easily ask friends in the class verbally what was on the exam. It isn't until someone removes exam materials that it can be considered cheating.

Relax.

[DiamondMac]

It is ambiguous enough that your professor has no proof that you attempted to cheat, yet open ended so that other students may offer you specific information although you never explicity requested it.

You should check the specific rules at your university, but at mine it would be impossible for the professor to take any sort of action over a message with such clever wording.


At most higher educational institutions, this is plenty.

It is very clear on what is being requested even though people are trying their best to come up with any excuse possible.

As for your story on being apologized to, what exactly did you do to make a professor accuse you of cheating? Did he actually apologize or are you saying that for effect of the story?

[DiamondMac]

He could easily ask friends in the class verbally what was on the exam. It isn't until someone removes exam materials that it can be considered cheating.


Woah, Woah....what?

Where exactly did you come up with that idea? It is cheating the minute he requests information about the test, whether that is by word of mouth or cheating.

Students all over the country are in fact turned in for cheating due to conversations they have had with other students out loud at school. Several kids just this semester were booted out of a local law school due to discussing an exam given a few days earlier. I heard their appeal.

Cheating is Cheating and has nothing to do with JUST removing materials.

[Capt Crunch]

You've got to be kidding. That is not even close to cheating...if the professor was worth his salt he would have a different version of the exam already prepared for people who missed it to take as a "make up".

He could easily ask friends in the class verbally what was on the exam. It isn't until someone removes exam materials that it can be considered cheating.

Relax.

The professor shouldn't have to rewrite the exam just for this kid. The fact is he has to because undergraduates cheat. In fact, it almost never happens at the graduate level. Why? Because graduate students generally aren't stupid enough to cheat. I've taken the same test as my classmates two days late and at home. No problems.

You don't even have to get the exact answers from your friend to have an unfair advantage on a test. Suppose questions types a, b, c, d, and e are things you are supposed to know for the test. Supposed only types b, c, and e show up on the exam. Now you don't have to study for two things, which is an advantage.

It sucks when you have to rewrite a test for a student. Not only is it a waste of time for the professor (who usually gives it to a TA, so it wastes my time), but it makes whatever curve given to the other students meaningless with respect to the student who had a makeup.

[Counterfit]

Man, this thread makes me glad I go to the school I do for the major I'm in. The entire department is like one big dysfunctional family.

[Signal-11]

Man, this thread makes me glad I go to the school I do for the major I'm in. The entire department is like one big dysfunctional family.

Dysfunctional, eh? Then you should feel right at home in this thread. ;)

[Ttownbeast]

The entire planet is dysfunctional if we all thought the same way life would be so friggin dull.

<----oh looky here my status changed when do I get my members only jacket?

[rhsgolfer33]

Students all over the country are in fact turned in for cheating due to conversations they have had with other students out loud at school. Several kids just this semester were booted out of a local law school due to discussing an exam given a few days earlier. I heard their appeal.

I hope you mean discussing an exam with a student who hadn't taken it yet. At all of the institutions I've attended students start discussing exams with each other about 20 seconds after they've finished taking the test. It is pretty unrealistic to expect students not to discuss exams they've already taken with each other.

[Ttownbeast]

I hope you mean discussing an exam with a student who hadn't taken it yet. At all of the institutions I've attended students start discussing exams with each other about 20 seconds after they've finished taking the test. It is pretty unrealistic to expect students not to discuss exams they've already taken with each other.

Even then there's still a bigger problem for the professor, they might be offering more than one class on the same subject during the term say an 11:00 mwf, a 3:00 mwf, and a 10:30 t/th there could be more than 100 students on campus who have taken the test in that period of time (even if exams are offset from the schedules) they cannot all be expected to be so tight lipped about the subject matter of an exam (even several terms after they took it), but they aren't likely to just say what answers go where on the test itself, finding out what subjects the tests cover is to no great advantage to the student, the material still has to be studied or the student will likely fail the make up exam anyway.

[farkasam]

you should have emailed the prof. directly, not your entire class. doing it that way would avoid the whiff of impropriety

[DiamondMac]

I hope you mean discussing an exam with a student who hadn't taken it yet. At all of the institutions I've attended students start discussing exams with each other about 20 seconds after they've finished taking the test. It is pretty unrealistic to expect students not to discuss exams they've already taken with each other.

Yes, I did in fact mean talking to a student who has NOT taken it yet