Senate Finance Committee shoots down the public option

[Thomas Veil]

Breaking. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/29/senate.public.option/index.html)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Senate Finance Committee on Tuesday rejected two amendments to include a government-run public health insurance option in the only compromise health care bill so far.

The amendments by Democratic Sens. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia and Charles Schumer of New York were opposed by all 10 Republicans on the committee and a few Democrats, including committee Chairman Sen. Max Baucus of Montana.

Baucus explained that he liked much about the idea of a public option but that he knew a health care bill containing the provision would fail to win enough support in the full Senate to overcome a Republican filibuster.

"I fear if this provision is in the bill, it will hold back meaningful reform this year," Baucus said.

Rockefeller said that unfair practices by insurance companies required a not-for-profit alternative that would give consumers a lower-cost option and, in some cases, the only coverage they could get....

In efforts to bridge differences, the Finance Committee proposal dropped the public insurance option and a mandate for all employers to provide health coverage. It would require individuals to have coverage or face a fine of up to $1,900 for a family of four but includes subsidies to help low- and middle-income Americans obtain health care plans.Wusses.

[NT1440]

So now where are we left?:confused::(

[MacNut]

Why don't they just scrap everything and start over from scratch.

[NT1440]

Why don't they just scrap everything and start over from scratch.

What will that change? This same **** will keep happening. What a pathetic country.:mad:

[Shivetya]

Awesome!

Unfair practices by Insurance Companies? What about State medical programs that confiscate property to pay for medical expenses?

Besides, no health care reform can exist without tort reform

[Dany M]

Some senator on CNN says it is not over.

I hope to god it is not.

[NT1440]

Besides, no health care reform can exist without tort reform

Why do you guys act like the two are mutually exclusive?

[leekohler]

Why don't they just scrap everything and start over from scratch.

Mark my words- this bill won't pass, and this is the last you'll hear about health care for the remainder of this administration. It's the second coming of the Clinton administration. DADT and DOMA also won't go anywhere. The GOP will get more of what they want than Dems will get.

And the GOP will do anything to crucify Obama's character, even when he does what they want.

[Zombie Acorn]

So we're going with the plan that doesn't change anything except stick people in jail for not paying fines for not being able to afford health insurance/provide the health industry with free customers unless they want to go to jail. :)

[Eraserhead]

So now where are we left?:confused::(

The Chinese to pull strings on the debt to force it.

I'm serious. In the long run it'll bankrupt the US if you guys don't get healthcare reform so its probably worth their while. It looks like the only way the environment will get "solved" in the US too.

The risk is the Chinese don't bother.

[leekohler]

The Chinese to pull strings on the debt to force it.

I'm serious. In the long run it'll bankrupt the US if you guys don't get healthcare reform so its probably worth their while. It looks like the only way the environment will get "solved" in the US too.

The system will have to collapse, even then you'll still have people crying socialism. :mad::rolleyes:

[Eraserhead]

To add at least on the environment if the debt was pulled the US economy would fall over - thus meaning they would produce less pollution naturally.

The system will have to collapse,

True.

[leekohler]

True.

I'm serious. It'll have to be a total collapse of the US. Don't think it can't happen. We're well on our way.

[Thomas Veil]

The system will have to collapse, even then you'll still have people crying socialism. :mad::rolleyes:Socialism my ass. :mad: What is making this possible is years and years of increasingly powerful corporations buying our government. That, and a lot of propaganda from the hate media.

This is extremely far from socialism.

[NT1440]

I'm serious. It'll have to be a total collapse of the US. Don't think it can't happen. We're well on our way.

You know us, we will kick and scream fighting change right up until something terrible happens, then we're all on board.

This country has NO foresight at all. Again, pathetic.

[leekohler]

Socialism my ass. :mad: What is making this possible is years and years of increasingly powerful corporations buying our government. That, and a lot of propaganda from the hate media.

This is extremely far from socialism.

Of course. I think most people know that as well. They just don't want to admit that they are wrong.

This is bill is a steaming pile of s***. I urge everybody to write your congressman.

[Thomas Veil]

You know us, we will kick and scream fighting change right up until something terrible happens, then we're all on board.
I don't think even then. If the Devil himself, horned and holding a pitchfork, bedecked in red and standing in the middle of flames, welcomed people into Hell and told 'em it was Heaven, a lot of us would walk straight in, eyes wide open, expecting to meet the Lord.

[Zombie Acorn]

Socialism my ass. :mad: What is making this possible is years and years of increasingly powerful corporations buying our government. That, and a lot of propaganda from the hate media.

This is extremely far from socialism.

If you had billions to fill their pockets come election time you'd be in the running. :D It will be interesting to see how many contributions Baucus gets during his next run. Corporations intertwined in the government is about the only thing that makes me sick. For the people my ass.

[bobber205]

Why don't they just scrap everything and start over from scratch.

This way of thinking reeks of the image of a poker player that gets a bad hand and screams "Mulligan".

Besides, even if the bill WAS restarted and we ended up with something anywhere near similar, you (people) would cry "start over" again.

[leekohler]

This way of thinking reeks of the image of a poker player that gets a bad hand and screams "Mulligan".

Besides, even if the bill WAS restarted and we ended up with something anywhere near similar, you (people) would cry "start over" again.

You're right. Because this bill is crap and needs to be defeated. It's a feel-good, do-nothing bill. If they sent us another like it- you're damn right we'd be angry.

[Zombie Acorn]

This way of thinking reeks of the image of a poker player that gets a bad hand and screams "Mulligan".

Besides, even if the bill WAS restarted and we ended up with something anywhere near similar, you (people) would cry "start over" again.

This isn't going to be restarted unless the president comes down hard on congress. Theres no way it will survive, its been flapping in the wind too long.

What most likely will happen is we will pass a halfass bill that does nothing, but give the insurance companies a free handout, which in turn gives a few select dems a nice amount of money to win their next campaign.

[remmy]

The system will have to collapse, even then you'll still have people crying socialism. :mad::rolleyes:

If there is a failure then Obama or his non-far right strategies will still be (wrongly) blamed for the failure.

[Thomas Veil]

It's a feel-good, do-nothing bill.Oh no...if there's a mandate to get coverage, yet it does little or nothing to fund that coverage, then it'll be a huge windfall to the insurance companies. It'll end up doing exactly the opposite of what it was intended to do.

[bobber205]

You're right. Because this bill is crap and needs to be defeated. It's a feel-good, do-nothing bill. If they sent us another like it- you're damn right we'd be angry.

I agree with you Lee.
I meant to refer to the sentiment of those that don't want any healthcare reform of any substance and that the "start over" tactic is one of delays only.

[Eraserhead]

I'm serious. It'll have to be a total collapse of the US. Don't think it can't happen. We're well on our way.

The US is probably the most ****ed country if there's no oil left.

[leekohler]

Oh no...if there's a mandate to get coverage, yet it does little or nothing to fund that coverage, then it'll be a huge windfall to the insurance companies. It'll end up doing exactly the opposite of what it was intended to do.

And then where's the incentive for insurance companies to lower prices?

[Thomas Veil]

Exactly.

[NC MacGuy]

The caving on this is exactly why I abandoned the dem. party. They are no different than the GOP except for the rhetoric.

If you really think it's the right thing, go down fighting for it on principal instead of cowering to media & opinion.

[MyDesktopBroke]

America will always do the right thing, but only after exhausting all other options.

[Metatron]

Why the hell is the fed trying to provide healthcare when we have people starving and living under bridges? While I realize this is a very small number of people, it should still be asked. Priorities seem to be a little of base, but I guess the small number of truly hurting people don't provide enough votes.

[Eraserhead]

Why the hell is the fed trying to provide healthcare when we have people starving and living under bridges?

We have some people living under bridges as well, its just that 99.99% of the population isn't, so really you should deal with their priorities not healthcare.

The caving on this is exactly why I abandoned the dem. party. They are no different than the GOP except for the rhetoric.

If you really think it's the right thing, go down fighting for it on principal instead of cowering to media & opinion.

True.

[Pocket lint]

If you really think it's the right thing, go down fighting for it on principal instead of cowering to media & opinion.


I'd thought I'd quote this, because it deserves it. I think that is spot on, no matter what the subject is. It's all about integrity. Well said, MG :)

[yg17]

Why the hell is the fed trying to provide healthcare when we have people starving and living under bridges? While I realize this is a very small number of people, it should still be asked. Priorities seem to be a little of base, but I guess the small number of truly hurting people don't provide enough votes.

A lot of people are starving and living under bridges because they went broke trying to pay for their healthcare.

[Sky Blue]

It's just the Senate Finance Committee. It isn't finished in the slightest (some would argue it has a better chance of being in the final bill now than at any other point previously). It's still in the house bills, Pelosi still wants it in. The Senate version is up to Reid (so it's screwed).

[Thomas Veil]

If this bill passes in this form, we'll be subject to the "Max tax", the penalty you'll pay if you don't get insurance. This, of course, will disproportionately affect the young and the poor...and it will in effect be government subsidizing private insurance corporations by essentially ordering citizens to buy from them.

This is what the teabaggers protested for???

I do think that if this goes through, the Dems will be in danger of losing in 2010 unless they frame it right. The conventional wisdom says that an angry public will turn to the other party. Of course, in spite of the fact that the Dems control Congress, conservative thinking on both sides of the aisle is what makes this such a *****y bill.

So the Dems will have to frame 2010 pretty much the way I said it in the first paragraph: that conservatism on the part of Republicans and blue dog Dems is what torpedoed true health reform, and the solution is electing more, not fewer liberals.

[CorvusCamenarum]

And then where's the incentive for insurance companies to lower prices?

Unless we regulate their profits the way we used to do the phone companies and the like, there's not one.

[Thomas Veil]

GOP'll never let that happen. Socialism, you know.

[MyDesktopBroke]

So instead of the non-existent threat of private companies going out of business due to a government plan (see: Germany, Canada, England,Sweden, etc) because Americans will have a choice of where to buy, we will be forced to buy a product to preserve our freedom of choice.

Got it.

[Zombie Acorn]

If this bill passes in this form, we'll be subject to the "Max tax", the penalty you'll pay if you don't get insurance. This, of course, will disproportionately affect the young and the poor...and it will in effect be government subsidizing private insurance corporations by essentially ordering citizens to buy from them.

This is what the teabaggers protested for???

I do think that if this goes through, the Dems will be in danger of losing in 2010 unless they frame it right. The conventional wisdom says that an angry public will turn to the other party. Of course, in spite of the fact that the Dems control Congress, conservative thinking on both sides of the aisle is what makes this such a *****y bill.

So the Dems will have to frame 2010 pretty much the way I said it in the first paragraph: that conservatism on the part of Republicans and blue dog Dems is what torpedoed true health reform, and the solution is electing more, not fewer liberals.

Teabaggers protested heavy government spending. Dems are the ones who sided with the insurance companies instead of sticking to their guns. Its easy to blame the extreme minority party when you can't push a bill through though.

Republicans are going to rally againt the idea of forced coverage or tax/jail time.

[leekohler]

Republicans are going to rally againt the idea of forced coverage or tax/jail time.

Oh no, they won't. I'm sure they're salivating over both.

[Zombie Acorn]

Oh no, they won't. I'm sure they're salivating over both.

If not from themselves they will politically in order to show that the "no taxes on anyone under 250k" was a farce (not that it isn't already with tax hikes on other items).

[AP_piano295]

I'm getting the impression that even the conservatives are (generally) in favor of a public option? :confused:

So IF thats the case then what is this ************??

[Sky Blue]

I'm getting the impression that even the conservatives are (generally) in favor of a public option? :confused:

So IF thats the case then what is this ************??

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss331/divanessa148/money-2.jpg

[callmemike20]

I'm getting the impression that even the conservatives are (generally) in favor of a public option? :confused:

So IF thats the case then what is this ************??

I don't think conservatives are "generally" in favor of a public option. I don't know where you get such info.

[AP_piano295]

I don't think conservatives are "generally" in favor of a public option. I don't know where you get such info.

I dont necessarily mean the people on these boards and deffinitely not congressmen/women, or the media.

I mean normal people I know who I think of as basically conservative pro war, pro gun, anti Obama, voted for McCain. Most of these people that I know want a public option.

They feel that they are already paying for their heathcare and they are ready to spring for any cheaper option.

I have even herd the words "this is ONE thing I dont mind paying the government for".

[Eraserhead]

I'm getting the impression that even the conservatives are (generally) in favor of a public option? :confused:

So IF thats the case then what is this ************??

The conservatives are here because the case against public healthcare is so weak its been possible for the liberals to persuade them that public healthcare is a good option.

I mean normal people I know who I think of as basically conservative pro war, pro gun, anti Obama, voted for McCain. Most of these people that I know want a public option.

They feel that they are already paying for their heathcare and they are ready to spring for any cheaper option.

I have even herd the words "this is ONE thing I dont mind paying the government for".

Interesting.

[AP_piano295]

Interesting.

I thought so to, I honestly believe most conservatives (like most liberals) are pretty unconcerned and apathetic. And its these people who would like a public option (as well as almost every liberal).

I think the anti public (anti heathcare reform in general) side of this debate has gained so much attention through sheer volume, rather than heavy public support.

[Mike Teezie]

Could these people BE any more spineless?

Or worse, obviously owned by insurance companies?

If this bill passes, it will literally make the problem worse. Do they honestly think people aren't getting health insurance because they don't want to?

They can't afford it, stupid. So passing a bill where health care is now mandated.....how could these people be more out of touch?

[callmemike20]

If this bill passes in this form, we'll be subject to the "Max tax", the penalty you'll pay if you don't get insurance. This, of course, will disproportionately affect the young and the poor...and it will in effect be government subsidizing private insurance corporations by essentially ordering citizens to buy from them.

This is what the teabaggers protested for???

I do think that if this goes through, the Dems will be in danger of losing in 2010 unless they frame it right. The conventional wisdom says that an angry public will turn to the other party. Of course, in spite of the fact that the Dems control Congress, conservative thinking on both sides of the aisle is what makes this such a *****y bill.

So the Dems will have to frame 2010 pretty much the way I said it in the first paragraph: that conservatism on the part of Republicans and blue dog Dems is what torpedoed true health reform, and the solution is electing more, not fewer liberals.


I think the Republicans and Blue Dog dems are simply trying to protect us from Obama screwing up America.

EDIT: I guess that isn't possible because Obama is king and he is always right.

[Sky Blue]

I think the Republicans and Blue Dog dems are simply trying to protect us from Obama screwing up America.


Yeah, if everybody can get healthcare America will lose it's freedoms.

[rdowns]

Once again, Jon Stewart (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/stewart-destroys-dems-for_n_305948.html)does a better job than the traditional media.

[Iscariot]

From 2003 to 2008, Baucus received $3,973,485 from the health sector, including $852,813 from pharmaceutical companies, $851,141 from health professionals, $784,185 from the insurance industry and $465,750 from HMOs/health services, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. [Wikipedia]

The only three senators to receive more money from the health sector than Baucus: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and John McCain.

[rdowns]

From 2003 to 2008, Baucus received $3,973,485 from the health sector, including $852,813 from pharmaceutical companies, $851,141 from health professionals, $784,185 from the insurance industry and $465,750 from HMOs/health services, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. [Wikipedia]

The only three senators to receive more money from the health sector than Baucus: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and John McCain.

Sickening.

[leekohler]

Sickening.

And not at all surprising. It's the Clinton administration all over again.

[rdowns]

I think I'll have to change my opinion on health care reform. :D

Link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/bachmann-sex-clinics-will_n_306292.html)

Last night on the House floor, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) spoke to Congress about "school based health clinics" (SBHC), labeling the clinics discussed in current House health care legislation as "sex clinics."

The conservative congresswoman suggested that if health care reform passes, the nation's schools might begin offering abortions to students. Bachman's interpretation of the health care reform bill holds that the legislation is designed to bring Planned Parenthood into educational facilities.

According to Bachmann,

The bill goes on to say what's going to go on -- comprehensive primary health services, physicals, treatment of minor acute medical conditions, referrals to follow-up for specialty care -- is that abortion? Does that mean that someone's 13 year-old daughter could walk into a sex clinic, have a pregnancy test done, be taken away to the local Planned Parenthood abortion clinic, have their abortion, be back and go home on the school bus that night? Mom and dad are never the wiser.

[leekohler]

I think I'll have to change my opinion on health care reform. :D

Link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/bachmann-sex-clinics-will_n_306292.html)

I am so SICK AND TIRED of morons like this woman. I really am. :mad:

[Eraserhead]

The only three senators to receive more money from the health sector than Baucus: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and John McCain.

Jesus christ, thats a hell of a racket. Why aren't the press all over it?

[leekohler]

Jesus christ, thats a hell of a racket. Why aren't the press all over it?

Are you kidding? You think they care?

[Zombie Acorn]

From 2003 to 2008, Baucus received $3,973,485 from the health sector, including $852,813 from pharmaceutical companies, $851,141 from health professionals, $784,185 from the insurance industry and $465,750 from HMOs/health services, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. [Wikipedia]

The only three senators to receive more money from the health sector than Baucus: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and John McCain.

Heres an idea, no more campaign donations over $100 dollars from any individual, and all lobbyists are booted from the halls. Slowly cut all special subsidies and back door handjobs to private industry via government. Im really sick of this ****. I don't even care if their campaign for reelection has to involve a hay rack ride across the state for lack of funds at this point.

Oh yeh, any politician caught in fraud or bribery goes to jail for life.

[Eraserhead]

Are you kidding? You think they care?

Its a good story, just like MP's expenses was in the UK. Stories sell papers.

and all lobbyists are booted from the halls.

Lobbyists, if they can just use their voice and power of persuasion can be a force for good, as they can change legislation that is damaging to the country. The problem in the US is that they give too much money to the politicians reelection campaigns which means they get influence even when they shouldn't.

Vastly reduce the money you have to spend to become a US politician and the problem is reduced dramatically.

[Zombie Acorn]

Lobbyists, if they can just use their voice and power of persuasion can be a force for good, as they can change legislation that is damaging to the country. The problem in the US is that they give too much money to the politicians reelection campaigns which means they get influence even when they shouldn't.

At this point I think they've just tainted the system so much that I don't even want to have them at all. They can write a letter to congress like everyone else.

[Iscariot]

Heres an idea, no more campaign donations over $100 dollars from any individual, and all lobbyists are booted from the halls. Slowly cut all special subsidies and back door handjobs to private industry via government. Im really sick of this ****. I don't even care if their campaign for reelection has to involve a hay rack ride across the state for lack of funds at this point.

Oh yeh, any politician caught in fraud or bribery goes to jail for life.

I disagree, but only on the basis that you and I agreeing about anything bears a high degree of risk that the universe will implode.

[rdowns]

I'm pretty convinced that publicly financed campaigns are the way to go.

I would also like to see mandatory sentences for politicians caught breaking the law.

[Eraserhead]

I would also like to see mandatory sentences for politicians caught breaking the law.

Agreed, 2 days seems like a reasonable minimum - as the Wire says the only two days you do are the day you come in and the day you go out of prison :p.

EDIT: Seriously that would be a good idea.

[MacNut]

I would also like to see mandatory sentences for politicians caught breaking the law.Who would be left?

[Zombie Acorn]

I'm pretty convinced that publicly financed campaigns are the way to go.

I would also like to see mandatory sentences for politicians caught breaking the law.

Now we just need to find a group of people to pass the law...

[Eraserhead]

Now we just need to find a group of people to pass the law...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Elizabeth_II_greets_NASA_GSFC_employees%2C_May_8%2C_2007_edit.jpg

[Pocket lint]

...

Ha ha!! Great idea - Let her annex the US, one state at a time :D

[callmemike20]

I'm pretty convinced that publicly financed campaigns are the way to go.

I would also like to see mandatory sentences for politicians caught breaking the law.

I don't exactly remember, but wasn't McCain pushing for this last election and Obama said he would agree to it, but then he didn't?

[NT1440]

I don't exactly remember, but wasn't McCain pushing for this last election and Obama said he would agree to it, but then he didn't?

Mccain has long championed campaign finance reform.

[AP_piano295]

Once again, Jon Stewart (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/stewart-destroys-dems-for_n_305948.html)does a better job than the traditional media.

I think I'm starting to hate democrats more than republicans...at least I expect republicans to be stupid ass****.

[Eraserhead]

I think I'm starting to hate democrats more than republicans...at least I expect republicans to be stupid ass****.

To be honest they both appear to be as bad as each other these days...

[Sky Blue]

Voting on the bill is today. You can watch it live here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/live/ (if you like to suffer).


Most likely all Republicans will vote no, Snowe is the only one who might (Spoiler: she won't).

edit: she will

[leekohler]

This thing had better not pass.

[Sky Blue]

This thing had better not pass.

why not? Get it passed, and get it out of the committee. This bill isn't going to be signed by the President, it's going to be merged with other, better bills and amended some more.
It's a crappy bill, but I want it to pass so the whole process can move on. Looks like Snowe and Lincoln will vote yes, so it looks likely it will pass.

[Zombie Acorn]

I have a feeling this is going to pass, insurance industry are loving this ****. :)

btw I think I saw a headline that said Snowe will vote for it.

[luminosity]

Snowe has voted "yes."

[leekohler]

why not? Get it passed, and get it out of the committee. This bill isn't going to be signed by the President, it's going to be merged with other, better bills and amended some more.
It's a crappy bill, but I want it to pass so the whole process can move on. Looks like Snowe and Lincoln will vote yes, so it looks likely it will pass.

Has Obama explicitly stated he won't sign it?

[callmemike20]

Has Obama explicitly stated he won't sign it?

Nope. I think he will sign it, but that's just my opinion.

[Sky Blue]

Has Obama explicitly stated he won't sign it?

err… why would he? After this passes the Finance Committee, it gets merged with the HELP bill and then it goes to the floor. It then would go to committee where it will merge with the House bill. Out of there, the bill goes to vote in both the House and Senate and where (presumably) they'll have to use reconciliation to pass anything with a public option. That's the process. The sooner the SFC is done, the better. The real fun starts when this bill is out of committee.

I'm trying to find a timeline of the rest of process, but I can't right now.

Much work would lie ahead before a bill could arrive on Obama's desk, but action by the Finance Committee would mark a significant advance, capping numerous delays as Baucus held marathon negotiating sessions – ultimately unsuccessful – aimed at producing a bipartisan bill.


Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/13/senate-finance-committee-_3_n_318305.html

[Shivetya]

doubt it will pass, not enough for some of the really far left in the House.

[Sky Blue]

doubt it will pass, not enough for some of the really far left in the House.

There is no far left in the SFC, it's being voted in a committee not in the house.

[rdowns]

I don't like this bill but think we will see a very different bill come time for Obama to sign it.

A big congratulations to Senator Snowe for doing the right thing. I feel sorry for her now that the Reps. will target her seat but she should be safe in the NE since she's only one of 2 Reps. from the region.

[leekohler]

There is no far left in the SFC, it's being voted in a committee not in the house.

There's no far left in the United States, let alone the government.

[Sky Blue]

Rockefeller is laying down some knowledge on the Public option and town hall screamers, good for him.


It passed. 14 yes, 9 no.

[Zombie Acorn]

I don't like this bill but think we will see a very different bill come time for Obama to sign it.

A big congratulations to Senator Snowe for doing the right thing. I feel sorry for her now that the Reps. will target her seat but she should be safe in the NE since she's only one of 2 Reps. from the region.

Doing the right thing by voting for a bill that hands billions to the insurance companies by forced government intervention? Oh well, my family thanksgiving and christmas should be baller as hell this year if this stuff passes through completely. :)

[leekohler]

Rockefeller is laying down some knowledge on the Public option and town hall screamers, good for him.


It passed. 14 yes, 9 no.

What a shame. Let's hope it gets squashed later. I for one, feel it's very dangerous that this passed at all. It should have been killed.

[rdowns]

Doing the right thing by voting for a bill that hands billions to the insurance companies by forced government intervention? Oh well, my family thanksgiving and christmas should be baller as hell this year if this stuff passes through completely. :)


We all know this bill will not be the final one. I don't like the bill either. She was right not to let this die in committee.

[leekohler]

We all know this bill will not be the final one. I don't like the bill either. She was right not to let this die in committee.

I still don't get it. How is voting for a crappy bill a good thing? It's bad no matter what. We don't know that this won't be the final bill and we don't know that Obama will veto it.

[Zombie Acorn]

We all know this bill will not be the final one. I don't like the bill either. She was right not to let this die in committee.

All the insurance companies have to do is pump a few more dollars in, take a few more concessions that won't ultimately effect their bottom line with their new forced customer base and thats all she wrote.

I think they will drop the public option, I know theres another bill that includes it thats running around, it probably won't pass.

The dems are doing the exact opposite of what they said they were doing. Instead of addressing the problem they are merely forcing everyone to jump into the pool. I will not pay fines for this, and I will go to jail.

[leekohler]

All the insurance companies have to do is pump a few more dollars in, take a few more concessions that won't ultimately effect their bottom line with their new forced customer base and thats all she wrote.

I think they will drop the public option, I know theres another bill that includes it thats running around, it probably won't pass.

The dems are doing the exact opposite of what they said they were doing. Instead of addressing the problem they are merely forcing everyone to jump into the pool. I will not pay fines for this, and I will go to jail.

I'm right there with you.

[rdowns]

I still don't get it. How is voting for a crappy bill a good thing? It's bad no matter what. We don't know that this won't be the final bill and we don't know that Obama will veto it.


It's a good thing because it was all that would ever come out the insurance company bought and paid for Senate Finance Committee. It needed to come out so the process can continue.

Even if what came out of the committee was 100% to your liking, the final bill would not have resembled it much anyway.

[leekohler]

It's a good thing because it was all that would ever come out the insurance company bought and paid for Senate Finance Committee. It needed to come out so the process can continue.

Even if what came out of the committee was 100% to your liking, the final bill would not have resembled it much anyway.

Sorry- I have to agree with zombie on this one. This isn't good, no matter how you spin it.

[rdowns]

Sorry- I have to agree with zombie on this one. This isn't good, no matter how you spin it.


Call me crazy but a bill that forces people to buy insurance or pay a fine (tax) will never pass.

[leekohler]

Call me crazy but a bill that forces people to buy insurance or pay a fine (tax) will never pass.

Get ready for a straitjacket. People who own cars (the vast majority of the US) are forced to buy auto insurance or pay a fine. I guarantee you this is how they will spin it.

[Sky Blue]

It's a good thing because it was all that would ever come out the insurance company bought and paid for Senate Finance Committee. It needed to come out so the process can continue.

Even if what came out of the committee was 100% to your liking, the final bill would not have resembled it much anyway.

This. I don't understand what's so hard to understand. This bill isn't the final health care, all they were doing is slowly the process. The fact it's done is a good thing.

[Zombie Acorn]

This. I don't understand what's so hard to understand. This bill isn't the final health care, all they were doing is slowly the process. The fact it's done is a good thing.

Its the wrong direction. If I want to walk north I don't start off by walking south.

[rdowns]

Its the wrong direction. If I want to walk north I don't start off by walking south.

There are 4 other bills to consider. The next step is to take the Finance Committee plan and Health Committee plans and somehow merge/change them.

After that, the House bills will be merged/changes with the Senate bill. THis is far from over.

[leekohler]

There are 4 other bills to consider. The next step is to take the Finance Committee plan and Health Committee plans and somehow merge/change them.

After that, the House bills will be merged/changes with the Senate bill. THis is far from over.

You're right- it's just the beginning of the end for decent health care reform.

[Sky Blue]

Its the wrong direction. If I want to walk north I don't start off by walking south.

If you want to walk North and 4 people point North and one points South, which way are you going to go?

[leekohler]

If you want to walk North and 4 people point North and one points South, which way are you going to go?

Ummm...what?

Zombie has a very good point. And TBH- nothing about any of the health care reform bills is what I want. But there has to be some sort of public option to keep me happy. Losing the one thing you want right out of the gate is not a good start.

[Zombie Acorn]

If you want to walk North and 4 people point North and one points South, which way are you going to go?

North east.

The problem is that I want to go north and 4 people are pointing south and 1 person is pointing north. The industry paid off the 4.

[Sky Blue]

Ummm...what?

Zombie has a very good point. And TBH- nothing about any of the health care reform bills is what I want. But there has to be some sort of public option to keep me happy. Losing the one thing you want right out of the gate is not a good start.

So you don't like the other bills that do have a public option? What is it that you do what?

Obama is talking about Healthcare from the White House right now (Hint: he didn't say he's going to sign a bill today ;) )

North east.

The problem is that I want to go north and 4 people are pointing south and 1 person is pointing north. The industry paid off the 4.

So the bills that have a strong public option were paid off by the industry? Interesting...

[leekohler]

So you don't like the other bills that do have a public option? What is it that you do what?



Single payer UHC. That's what I want- like France and Britain. Any public option mentioned in any of these bills falls way short of that. However, I am willing to compromise and go for the tiny public option presented in some of the current bills. I am NOT willing to compromise to no public option. That is not a compromise, that is conceding defeat.

[Sky Blue]

Single payer UHC. That's what I want- like France and Britain. Any public option mentioned in any of these bills falls way short of that. However, I am willing to compromise and go for the tiny public option presented in some of the current bills. I am NOT willing to compromise to no public option. That is not a compromise, that is conceding defeat.


I completely agree. Moving over here from uk I really miss the nhs :(

I also agree about the public option. I fail to believe that congress would pass or Obama would sign a bill that requires you to buy health insurance but not offer a public option.

[leekohler]

I fail to believe that congress would pass or Obama would sign a bill that requires you to buy health insurance but not offer a public option.

You haven't been in the US that long, have you?

[rdowns]

Single payer UHC. That's what I want- like France and Britain. Any public option mentioned in any of these bills falls way short of that. However, I am willing to compromise and go for the tiny public option presented in some of the current bills. I am NOT willing to compromise to no public option. That is not a compromise, that is conceding defeat.


There is no way we'll get single payer UHC. I never expected it. I do agree with you though, if there is no public option (and none of the states can opt out *****) then this will have been a colossal failure, especially on the part of Obama.

[leekohler]

There is no way we'll get single payer UHC. I never expected it. I do agree with you though, if there is no public option (and none of the states can opt out *****) then this will have been a colossal failure, especially on the part of Obama.

That's why I find this Senate BS unacceptable. If it were to have held up the process, I'd have been more than happy to be patient. That this went through at all only emboldens the enemies of health care reform. Trust me, they'll try to sell this like they sold mandatory auto insurance.

[Sky Blue]

You haven't been in the US that long, have you?

On and off for 20 years, only 8 years permanently.

[Zombie Acorn]

Mark my words, this is going to turn into a cash fall for the insurance industry with a few restrictions put in place. No public option, and massive failure seem eminent to me.

[Shivetya]

Mark my words, this is going to turn into a cash fall for the insurance industry with a few restrictions put in place. No public option, and massive failure seem eminent to me.

Looks like the unions are going to go against the Baucus bill.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gvEvnZsmrdEIt0aADWOx_jUA2PBQD9BACBOO5


The only windfall in the bills being proposed are for

1. Lawyers
2. Wall Street
3. The Federal Government

[Thomas Veil]

Mark my words, this is going to turn into a cash fall for the insurance industry with a few restrictions put in place. No public option, and massive failure seem eminent to me.That's pretty much it. The health insurance industry must be feeling pretty good right now.

[MacNut]

The only windfall in the bills being proposed are for

1. Lawyers
2. Wall Street
3. The Federal GovernmentIsn't that just about every bill passed in the last 30 years?