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MacRumors
Sep 29, 2009, 10:15 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/09/29/atandt-dropped-call-rate-of-30-considered-normal-in-new-york-city/)

Gizmodo reports (http://gizmodo.com/5370493/apple-genius-bar-iphones-30-call-drop-is-normal-in-new-york) that one of its readers recently visited the Genius Bar at the SoHo Apple retail store (http://www.apple.com/retail/soho/) in New York City complaining that 30% of his attempted calls were being dropped, and was informed after testing that such performance was considered normal by AT&T's standards for the area. The reader provided Gizmodo with a copy of the Genius Bar work authorization form noting the technician's assessment of the situation.Issue Description: dropped calls, poor signal
Steps to Reproduce: plugged into behavior scan, report concludes that phone has dropped over 22 percent of the phone calls made. customer states that the percentage is a bit higher but does not register to the phone due to the fact that when a call begins to fail he manually disconnects the call.
Issue Verified: Yes
Proposed Resolution: this is a basic trouble shooting case so that the customer may report back to ATT to show that the phone is fully functional and the problem is consistent with the service provided by ATTAT&T has acknowledged that it has struggled with service performance in areas of high iPhone density such as the New York City and San Francisco Bay areas, and has recently taken steps (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/02/atandt-announces-850-mhz-3g-coverage-improvements-in-new-york-city-and-other-markets/) to enhance 3G service in those and other markets.

Article Link: AT&T Dropped Call Rate of 30% Considered Normal in New York City (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/09/29/atandt-dropped-call-rate-of-30-considered-normal-in-new-york-city/)



Metatron
Sep 29, 2009, 10:31 PM
You think it is bad for iPhone users only....with my company's massive (thousands) number of blackberries with AT&T, not to mention aircards, the iPhone's massive use of bandwidth and cell saturation is hurting more than itself.

DMann
Sep 29, 2009, 10:39 PM
At least AT&T has been stepping up their efforts by investing billions into building new towers and expanding and solidifying their coverage.

33scottie33
Sep 29, 2009, 10:40 PM
I get about the same drop rate or worse in the DC Metro area. I also have friends on AT&T that have their text messages go to the wrong person. Thinking seriously of getting a Verizon BB and an iPod Touch to replace my iPhone. :(:(:( Sorry :apple:

binaryskies
Sep 29, 2009, 11:13 PM
Yeah, I would estimate my dropped call rate is around 20-30% (Northern Virginia) sometimes higher depending on the day. They said they built a new tower near me, but ever since I got that message, my coverage has dropped at least one to two bars everywhere I go.

kalafalas
Sep 29, 2009, 11:21 PM
i live in teh SF bay area (east bay), and i usually get about 4 bars of 3G outside, with about 1mbps down, and 150kbps up (horrible) speeds. but inside... i'm lucky to get two bars of 3G, and i it drops the call more than 50% of the time, and i have to manually switch to edge. and even outside when i get good service, its about 30% fail rate.

Step up your game AT&T, you knew what you were getting into when you saw what this godlike device could do, and what it required to do it. and then you failed to meet the requirements, europe seems to handle it just fine, so what the ****?

at least so far MMS has been flawless, that deserves props

Beric
Sep 29, 2009, 11:21 PM
Don't you just love AT&T? :D


(BTW, there's a few good reasons I use Verizon.)

One of those reasons is that there is no AT&T signal at my house.

Metatron
Sep 29, 2009, 11:29 PM
Don't you just love AT&T? :D


(BTW, there's a few good reasons I use Verizon.)

One of those reasons is that there is no AT&T signal at my house.

Having worked very closely with the head engineers of AT&T, I do feel sorry for them. As someone stated earlier, that are spending billions to upgrade the network, but all that money will only meet current demand in some areas. The iPhone is such an incredible success that AT&T never had a chance. The same would be said about Verizon had they got the exclusive contract. If you want to lay the blame at anyones feet, it should be Apple. They should have made a CDMA version and split the load between the networks.

NeroAZ
Sep 29, 2009, 11:41 PM
Here in Phoenix I have not had too many issues. i get full strength signal most of the time and almost always 3g. however there are a few places i have that and still cannot get data, luckily its not often, and usually its in the evening which is probably heavy usage times.

Jeff321
Sep 29, 2009, 11:46 PM
Yeah, if it weren't exclusive the load would be split between multiple networks, and also increase competition in terms of network performance, features, and pricing. But no, that would be too logical...

You suck Apple! At least you have a chance to correct your mistake, just don't renew the agreement with AT&T.

QuarterSwede
Sep 29, 2009, 11:50 PM
Here in Phoenix I have not had too many issues. i get full strength signal most of the time and almost always 3g. however there are a few places i have that and still cannot get data, luckily its not often, and usually its in the evening which is probably heavy usage times.
You also live in a place without a lot of trees and which is relatively flat. It doesn't get much better for signal coverage. I live in an area that is about the same coverage wise and the 3G signal is ALWAYS 5 bars anywhere I go in town. 3G speeds are easily as fast as my iPhone on wifi. You and I have it good. I really do feel for people in densely populated areas like NYC and San Fran who have dismal service. You have no idea how good it can be.

MacFly123
Sep 29, 2009, 11:54 PM
ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC AT&T!!! :eek: :rolleyes:

roland.g
Sep 30, 2009, 12:07 AM
I took my 3G in to an Apple Store after extensive phone-based troubleshooting with Applecare techs and AT&T techs complaining of dropped calls. They ran a diagnostic that showed I had a 44% dropped call rate and gave me a replacement phone. Unfortunately AT&T also spent the summer robusting their network, so I continued to have problems though to a lesser degree. Over the last few weeks since they completed their network upgrades, I have seen my dropped call rate decrease significantly. Not necessarily happy with AT&T, their network, and the problems/service to date, but if the upgraded network proves over time that it is less prone to signal and dropped call issues, then I will be happier at least.

BTW, Denver, CO.

Mebsat
Sep 30, 2009, 12:18 AM
The dropped calls are the dealbreaker. I love my iPhone but it just doesn't perform at anything approaching an acceptable level.

Missed calls. Dropped calls. Missing voicemails. 3 day late voicemails. There are consequences these days of having a communication device that behaves randomly. You trust it when you shouldn't and it costs you business and makes you look unreliable.

Most of this is ATT's fault, but frankly the phone has attributes that are Apple's fault, like the volume level. In any case it has to be a good phone first and it is not. The network is the phone, and the network sucks.

Hope I get enough on Ebay to buy an iPod touch.

spillproof
Sep 30, 2009, 01:10 AM
I never knew people were experiencing this many dropped calls. I guess I don't make calls enough to experience all the fail. AT&T is the only phone company I've had, so I don't know any different. If Verizon did get the iPhone, I'm sure their network would struggle a bit too.

iphones4evry1
Sep 30, 2009, 01:25 AM
THIS IS DISGRACEFUL !!!!!!!!!

With AT&T being the cell phone carrier that charges the most, they should be EXPECTED to provide the best quality service in the industry. If AT&T thinks 30% of all calls being dropped is "normal," this is absolutely unacceptable! So this means that of every ten phone calls to 911, 3 being dropped is "normal" and acceptable????? And major corporations with thousands of employees are supposed to sign up for cell service with AT&T, knowing that 30% of all calls (with customers) being dropped is, in AT&T's eyes, acceptable???????? :eek: :eek: :eek:

liquidsnake621
Sep 30, 2009, 03:14 AM
well then maybe i'll pay 30% of my bill... =P

Whorehay
Sep 30, 2009, 03:35 AM
Manhattan has some crappy, crappy AT&T service. It's not even "coverage" that's the issue. 5 bars of 3G (whether I'm using a BlackBerry or iPhone)-- it just doesn't want to work. The iPhone needs some sort of compression or else it'll just bring the entire network down.

scottnj1966
Sep 30, 2009, 05:23 AM
well then maybe i'll pay 30% of my bill... =P

You mean you will pay 70% of your bill, sinc ethat is the amount that works.

scottnj1966
Sep 30, 2009, 05:27 AM
I really think AT&T cannot make it better.
MMS is not looking that good either. I know many that still cannot use it.
Dropped calls all the time. The alien voice syndrom was always funny, but not anymore.

They are over their heads. Too much to handle.

The only thing that they can do is let apple out of the agreement so other carriers can take some of the load off their hands.

I will stay with AT&T since most everyone I know uses it, but it would be nice to let everyone that came to AT&T to be able to go back to the carrier of their choice.

I also think AT&T should lower the monthly charges. They were suppose to use the extra to upgrade. That didnt happen. Now they are scrambling.

touchtone561
Sep 30, 2009, 07:04 AM
I used to live in NYC when the technology was just TDMA, it was piss poor then.

AT&T had terrible service then, and the New York State AG wanted to sue them for overselling their service.

In 2005 AT&T was passing out 3G SIMS like raffle tickets in phones that weren't 3G -I need some internal wireless guru to tell if that extra hand-off doesn't make a difference.

Does the 2007 iPhone (2G) having better call performance versus the iPhone 3G?

What percentage of all 3G devices on the AT&T platform is the iPhone 3G?

Is there something wrong in the code for the iPhone's 3G implmentation of the protocol that makes it use more of the network compared to a Blackberry Bold?

Or does AT&T just keep scapegoating iPhone cause they finally have a product that no other U.S. carrier has and everybody appears to want.

bondsbw
Sep 30, 2009, 07:25 AM
Having worked very closely with the head engineers of AT&T, I do feel sorry for them. As someone stated earlier, that are spending billions to upgrade the network, but all that money will only meet current demand in some areas. The iPhone is such an incredible success that AT&T never had a chance. The same would be said about Verizon had they got the exclusive contract. If you want to lay the blame at anyones feet, it should be Apple. They should have made a CDMA version and split the load between the networks.

You have a point, but Apple didn't necessarily want an exclusive carrier. That does nothing for Apple's business. AT&T obviously paid for Apple's exclusivity.

I understand that AT&T has a problem, and they are trying to fix the problem. But they have made TONS OF MONEY off people switching from Verizon/Sprint/etc. It may take time for that money to become new towers and infrastructure, but they cannot say that there is no problem.

AT&T had to drop the "Fewest Dropped Calls" ad campaign because it turned out to be mostly false. "More Bars in More Places" means nothing when everyone else is using all those bars.

longofest
Sep 30, 2009, 07:42 AM
I get about the same drop rate or worse in the DC Metro area. I also have friends on AT&T that have their text messages go to the wrong person. Thinking seriously of getting a Verizon BB and an iPod Touch to replace my iPhone. :(:(:( Sorry :apple:

I get very good reception in the DC metro area (NoVA). I estimate only 1-5% dropped calls, which is acceptable to me.

edesignuk
Sep 30, 2009, 07:44 AM
wow, how spectacularly awful.

ManhattanPrjct
Sep 30, 2009, 07:46 AM
Manhattan has some crappy, crappy AT&T service. It's not even "coverage" that's the issue. 5 bars of 3G (whether I'm using a BlackBerry or iPhone)-- it just doesn't want to work. The iPhone needs some sort of compression or else it'll just bring the entire network down.

I'll second that - I actually use EDGE most of the time in Manhattan and I find that I'll get a random voicemail from a call 6 hours ago... and my iPhone didn't even ring.

jcrMBP
Sep 30, 2009, 07:52 AM
AT&T has a problem. I've been a customer for many years. Most of my family are AT&T customers. We all live in different parts of the country and we all experience the same problems. Very frequent, way too frequent, dropped calls. I know the naysayers and apologists here say to give AT&T a break. They are experiencing growing pains. Here's what I have to say.

First of all, my iPhone is a Phone! I expect the phone part of the iPhone to work above all else. It's nice to have the apps but I expect the phone to work 100% of the time. That's what I'm paying for. If AT&T needs to figure out a way to throttle down the data then that's what they need to do during peak usage. Phone calls should be the priority for a phone! I still have a Gen 1 iPhone and will not upgrade until AT&T resolves their problems. When I get tired of waiting for that to happen and my iPhone dies, I'll switch phones and networks.

Alfuh
Sep 30, 2009, 08:01 AM
I can understand not being able to send videos or download content quickly, but to not perform the most basic function of a PHONE is pretty crappy for a PHONE service provider ... even in a densely populated area ... I mean for that cost, what exactly is the consumer paying for? Only AT&T and meteorologists get away with being so crappy on a regular basis

tk421
Sep 30, 2009, 08:21 AM
Wow. That sucks for people in those areas. My iPhone has about 2-3% of calls dropped.

patliean1
Sep 30, 2009, 08:31 AM
Sadly, as long as the Apple fanboys continue to flock to the iPhone unconditionally AT&T will have little to no reason to upgrade the quality of their service.

justflie
Sep 30, 2009, 08:59 AM
BS and unacceptable. That being said, I'm doing fine in the metro-west area of Boston/Worcester. Very rare to have a dropped call. I think this is just a case of a single carrier being unable to handle the volume of iPhone users. It's time to open it up to multiple carriers to spread the love and the cell tower load.

macduke
Sep 30, 2009, 09:04 AM
Maybe I should forget to pay my bill 30% of the time.

My wife had VZ and hated them. I doubt that there is actually any network out there that has acceptable quality. The iPhone is essentially a phone straight out of the future. It's like trying to run a RAZR on a network in the late 80's. It's too much data.

drnen
Sep 30, 2009, 09:14 AM
i just forwarded this link to att in the long string of customer service emails ive had with them over the last 3 months when they started screwing up my bill. Ive consistently been getting charged for extra text messages that simply do not exist in my phone history.. the other day i got a text message from 24 hours previous. Its awful. And that isnt even beginning to get into their coverage issues. I was in a bar in the east village last weekend and had 2 bars edge.. so did my friend with a 1st gen iphone. I am going to sprint next month because of all this and plan on arguing my early termination fee to the death.

15inchbrick
Sep 30, 2009, 09:17 AM
You have a point, but Apple didn't necessarily want an exclusive carrier. That does nothing for Apple's business. AT&T obviously paid for Apple's exclusivity.


Um.... I am pretty sure that Apple gets a higher subsidy from having an exclusive carrier agreement, lowering the cost to their customers, yet still keeping margins on the device high.

Someone to correct me if I am wrong.

Small White Car
Sep 30, 2009, 09:37 AM
Apple didn't necessarily want an exclusive carrier. That does nothing for Apple's business. AT&T obviously paid for Apple's exclusivity.


So you're saying that AT&T gives Apple money...but that does nothing for Apple's business?

upekkharich
Sep 30, 2009, 09:41 AM
which AT&T representative said that this is normal?
Oh, I see, it was a technician writing a repair report.

so it is normal. this does not mean that anyone, technician or CEO, said it is acceptable. the technicians notes, imho, seem to merely state that the phone works as expected, normally, regardless of the networks issues.

maybe i have a problem because i do not live in NYC or SF, drop very few calls. Forgive me for being sympathetic. Albeit premature, I haven't yet had my hissy fit that I blame on the world not being the one I invented in my workshop.

mattster16
Sep 30, 2009, 09:47 AM
It's interesting how cell service works. Here's a simplistic summary:

Only a certain number of users can use a tower at any given time. There is only a certain range of frequencies that can be used. All towers use these same frequencies. This means that each tower must not overlap the others in terms of coverage area and frequenceis. To ensure this, companies actually use different frequency ranges on adjacent towers. Further limiting how many users can use each tower.

The solution to this is to create smaller cell sites that cover a smaller area (and therefore will have fewer users at any given time). The problem with this is that each new cell site requires a new tower. With all the opposition to new tower construction it can take months or years to get approval to build one.

With the massive growth in cell usage companies are having to create smaller and smaller cell sites. Because of the way the system works putting up one new tower requires the reconfiguration of all the adjacent towers. Their signal area must be changed, their frequencies must be changed and it all must be integrated together.

When you get a dropped call, it's usually because you are moving into another cell site (serviced by a new tower). Your call must be handed off to the new tower. If this new tower is at capacity or overloaded, failures happen.

This is why it sucks for very high density areas.

Luckily in Minneapolis we have very good AT&T coverage. I get very fast 3G speeds and <1% dropped calls everywhere I go. Thank you urban sprawl for spreading everyone out.. When I was in NYC I noticed by data speeds were much slower. I didn't make enough calls to have any problems with that though.

mattster16
Sep 30, 2009, 09:49 AM
so it is normal. this does not mean that anyone, technician or CEO, said it is acceptable. the technicians notes, imho, seem to merely state that the phone works as expected, normally, regardless of the networks issues.



Thanks for saying it before I had to. Normal does not mean acceptable. Just like it's normal to be overweight in the U.S., this does not make it acceptable (although many seem to think so and take pride in it).

patrickvanzandt
Sep 30, 2009, 09:51 AM
The headline for this story is misleading based on the data provided.

All we have is ONE Apple engineer's case notes mentioning
Proposed Resolution: this is a basic trouble shooting case so that the customer may report back to ATT to show that the phone is fully functional and the problem is consistent with the service provided by ATT


All the tech is saying is "the iPhone is fully functional", or in other words: there is no evidence of a hardware issue on this customer's iPhone.

Nowhere does it say anything about what AT&T considers "normal". This engineer does not even work for AT&T. She's simply saying that she confirmed that this particular unit seems to be OK on a hardware level and referred the customer to AT&T for resolution.

Move along...

QCassidy352
Sep 30, 2009, 09:54 AM
That is unacceptable. But I'll also say that the problems experienced by people in NYC and SF have created a negative perception of AT&T that isn't accurate for most of the country. I've taken my iphone to a lot of places (to name a few: Orlando, DC, Indianapolis, New Hampshire, Maine, Houston) and had very good service (by which I mean as good as what my gf has had on her verizon phone) everywhere. I live in Boston, and the 3G speeds could be faster, but I do always have 3G and have very few dropped calls.

None of this is to suggest 30% dropped calls in a major city is Ok - it's clearly not, and if I lived in NYC or SF, I probably wouldn't have an iphone. But I wouldn't hesitate to recommend AT&T to people who lived in most other places.

aardwolf
Sep 30, 2009, 09:55 AM
I get very good reception in the DC metro area (NoVA). I estimate only 1-5% dropped calls, which is acceptable to me.

Same here in the Memphis metro area... I probably get somewhere near 1%.

SFStateStudent
Sep 30, 2009, 09:55 AM
This is exactly the reason I'm not moving to NY anytime soon.....:p

fozy
Sep 30, 2009, 10:02 AM
It's really unbelievable that you see so many iPhones in NYC, I was there recently for three days and received only a couple calls, most of them went to voicemail, also data service was out for hours at a time.

This poor service really stands out when you live in a small market with 3G service where the phone works acceptably well.


AT&T has a problem. I've been a customer for many years. Most of my family are AT&T customers. We all live in different parts of the country and we all experience the same problems. Very frequent, way too frequent, dropped calls. I know the naysayers and apologists here say to give AT&T a break. They are experiencing growing pains. Here's what I have to say.

First of all, my iPhone is a Phone! I expect the phone part of the iPhone to work above all else. It's nice to have the apps but I expect the phone to work 100% of the time. That's what I'm paying for. If AT&T needs to figure out a way to throttle down the data then that's what they need to do during peak usage. Phone calls should be the priority for a phone! I still have a Gen 1 iPhone and will not upgrade until AT&T resolves their problems. When I get tired of waiting for that to happen and my iPhone dies, I'll switch phones and networks.

bondsbw
Sep 30, 2009, 10:03 AM
Um.... I am pretty sure that Apple gets a higher subsidy from having an exclusive carrier agreement, lowering the cost to their customers, yet still keeping margins on the device high.

Someone to correct me if I am wrong.

So you're saying that AT&T gives Apple money...but that does nothing for Apple's business?

:rolleyes: Wow, both of you missed it entirely. My point is the same as yours.

The poster I replied to suggested that Apple could have split their contract so that both AT&T and Verizon would have the iPhone (meaning better overall service today). But in the end, that would mean less profit for Apple.

I was explaining that Apple would not have made an exclusive agreement had there been no extra money involved. That's my point.

e-coli
Sep 30, 2009, 10:05 AM
Okay, this guy must live in a "garden" apartment or something. I live in NYC and the only place I drop calls 100% of the time is near the Verizon building by the Brooklyn Bridge. Irony of ironies.

But my dropped call percentage is less that 5%.

ericshu
Sep 30, 2009, 10:15 AM
Here in Phoenix I have not had too many issues. i get full strength signal most of the time and almost always 3g. however there are a few places i have that and still cannot get data, luckily its not often, and usually its in the evening which is probably heavy usage times.

East side of the Phoenix and the outlying areas are terrible. This thing is a brick often! I actually keep old reliable verizon around in case of emergency. Still, the iPhone rocks and I'll just keep it till they open it up to Verizon too!

AT&T sucks!

ericshu
Sep 30, 2009, 10:16 AM
:rolleyes: Wow, both of you missed it entirely. My point is the same as yours.

The poster I replied to suggested that Apple could have split their contract so that both AT&T and Verizon would have the iPhone (meaning better overall service today). But in the end, that would mean less profit for Apple.

I was explaining that Apple would not have made an exclusive agreement had there been no extra money involved. That's my point.

Exactly!!! Could not have said it better! Cannot see the forest for the trees!!!!!!!!

FoxyKaye
Sep 30, 2009, 10:18 AM
Both mine and my partner's regular EDGE/3G cellphones (Nokias) on AT&T drop calls at a horrific rate. When calls do connect, I've heard static, other people's conversations, and a constant background hiss well beyond what other cell networks have. I borrowed a friend's Sprint phone the other day because my battery ran out, and I was amazed at how clear the call was - and her cell was Sprints giveaway texting phone. This is in East Bay, CA.

Goodbye AT&T - I'll never use you as a carrier again, which also means every business I work for that has cell plans for its employees will also never use you as a carrier again.

grantsdale
Sep 30, 2009, 10:20 AM
I get about the same drop rate or worse in the DC Metro area. I also have friends on AT&T that have their text messages go to the wrong person. Thinking seriously of getting a Verizon BB and an iPod Touch to replace my iPhone. :(:(:( Sorry :apple:

Sorry? You'd be buying another Apple device ...

Daveoc64
Sep 30, 2009, 10:21 AM
In 2005 AT&T was passing out 3G SIMS like raffle tickets in phones that weren't 3G -I need some internal wireless guru to tell if that extra hand-off doesn't make a difference.

That makes no difference whatsoever.

A 2G phone simply ignores the 3G features of the USIM.

As far as the 2G phone is concerned, 3G doesn't exist. It has no impact on any network (2G or 3G).

iPie
Sep 30, 2009, 10:27 AM
A lot of gripes in this thread, well... ...here's how you can do something about it:
go to: hearusnow.org

or use the link below to (easily) send a message to your elected representative.


https://secure.consumersunion.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=2137&s_src=EH99Y01&s_subsrc=103372000229820601033720002298206012

haddman
Sep 30, 2009, 10:43 AM
Yeah, I would estimate my dropped call rate is around 20-30% (Northern Virginia) sometimes higher depending on the day. They said they built a new tower near me, but ever since I got that message, my coverage has dropped at least one to two bars everywhere I go.

Same here in Northern VA...this in addition to the 3.1 bugs is just maddening...enough to drive me to another carrier. Waiting on some Android phones to be released with VZW...Sprint has the the new HTC hero as well. Might be about the closest thing to an iPhone that won't drop my damn calls.

simplemind
Sep 30, 2009, 11:13 AM
Luckily in Minneapolis we have very good AT&T coverage. I get very fast 3G speeds and <1% dropped calls everywhere I go. Thank you urban sprawl for spreading everyone out.. When I was in NYC I noticed by data speeds were much slower. I didn't make enough calls to have any problems with that though.

wow Matt, you must live in a special area of Minneapolis, because my experience with AT&T coverage in Minny is terrible! I was over in St. Louis Park just yesterday and my wife and I both had NO SERVICE until we got into Edina, and when my wife was in downtown at her patent lawyers office (IDC) she had 1 bar on Edge, and could not stay connected for more than 30 seconds before dropping the call. Thankfully in Prior Lake, I have decent coverage.
I have had Sprint service for 7 years before switching over 2 years ago with AT&T, and if it were not for this device, I would be back on Sprint.
I am tired of all the excuses I hear from AT&T every time I call them about their coverage, its a joke. What makes me and everyone I know upset, is this is AT&T we are talking about, not a 3rd rate, fly by night provider... I pay a premium price every month, and do not get anywhere close to a premium service in return.
I cant wait for this phone to be with a different carrier, the second it becomes available, I am switched over!

kas23
Sep 30, 2009, 11:28 AM
I cant wait for this phone to be with a different carrier, the second it becomes available, I am switched over!

Me too. I lived in the DC area before and reception was fine. Now I live in Cincinnati (not exactly a population dense area) and I have about 20% of my calls dropped or can't be completed. And when I'm on-call, this is so horrible it frightens me. I've been ready for a new carrier for months now (and I've only been with AT&T for 9 months), but not quite ready for a new phone (yet).

supmango
Sep 30, 2009, 11:29 AM
Having worked very closely with the head engineers of AT&T, I do feel sorry for them. As someone stated earlier, that are spending billions to upgrade the network, but all that money will only meet current demand in some areas. The iPhone is such an incredible success that AT&T never had a chance. The same would be said about Verizon had they got the exclusive contract. If you want to lay the blame at anyones feet, it should be Apple. They should have made a CDMA version and split the load between the networks.

So, ATT saying they are building up their network is really just a PR bandaid? That fits my experience with the company.

grigby1
Sep 30, 2009, 11:30 AM
Three to four bars of 3G at my house in suburban Detroit and I'm lucky if I can make a call and if I can, half the time it's dropped. And nobody can hear me anyway. I rarely receive calls and the missed call and voice-mails notifications don't show up till I leave home. Had Verizon for years and I can't remember ever dropping a call anywhere. But I love my iPhone and never did like Verizon.

nagromme
Sep 30, 2009, 11:36 AM
Wow.

Actually, the reason I NEVR got a mobile phone until the iPhone came out is the dropped-call rate for my friends in NYC. Who were on Sprint, as it happened. Their experience was so poor that it kept me on land lines for decades :o

Luckily I get almost no dropped calls with my iPhone--but I'm not in NYC!

SimonTheSoundMa
Sep 30, 2009, 11:46 AM
Been with O2 (UK) for many years I never had a dropped call — until I bought an iPhone.

My signal is good, full bars on 3G and 2G. Dropped calls, calls failed happen regally.

I also hate sitting on a train, everyone else who does not have an iPhone has full-good reception, iPhone displays "No Service".

:rolleyes:

Eraserhead
Sep 30, 2009, 11:56 AM
wow, how spectacularly awful.

My phone seems to not accept calls about 5% of the time, and I'm pissed with that.

I'm waiting for the iPhone price war to reduce the price to be somewhat sensible now there's competition for it.

2992
Sep 30, 2009, 12:07 PM
ATT, go check out HK to learn how to do it.:cool:

MacU
Sep 30, 2009, 12:11 PM
Having worked very closely with the head engineers of AT&T, I do feel sorry for them. As someone stated earlier, that are spending billions to upgrade the network, but all that money will only meet current demand in some areas. The iPhone is such an incredible success that AT&T never had a chance. The same would be said about Verizon had they got the exclusive contract. If you want to lay the blame at anyones feet, it should be Apple. They should have made a CDMA version and split the load between the networks.

That's actually a very intelegent point. I hate AT&T for their price gouging and service but I would bet we would've said the same about Verizon if they got the exclusivity too three years ago.

The blame really is with Apple on this whole mess. Open up the rights to other carriers and give the customers the option between the big 3. At&t was an alienating decision.

Liquorpuki
Sep 30, 2009, 12:13 PM
THIS IS DISGRACEFUL !!!!!!!!!

With AT&T being the cell phone carrier that charges the most, they should be EXPECTED to provide the best quality service in the industry. If AT&T thinks 30% of all calls being dropped is "normal," this is absolutely unacceptable! So this means that of every ten phone calls to 911, 3 being dropped is "normal" and acceptable????? And major corporations with thousands of employees are supposed to sign up for cell service with AT&T, knowing that 30% of all calls (with customers) being dropped is, in AT&T's eyes, acceptable???????? :eek: :eek: :eek:


Far as I know, Verizon charges the most

But yeah, having switched from Verizon to AT&T, trying the Blackjack 2, then the Fuze, then the iPhone, AT&T service sucks. If the iPhone wasn't such a great phone, I'd be back on Verizon even if I had to pay more

Though the one guy's comment about the carrier exclusivity being the real problem is something to think about

Scallywag
Sep 30, 2009, 12:14 PM
Okay, this guy must live in a "garden" apartment or something. I live in NYC and the only place I drop calls 100% of the time is near the Verizon building by the Brooklyn Bridge. Irony of ironies.

But my dropped call percentage is less that 5%.

I live in Hell's Kitchen, and I rarely drop calls here, though data speeds during rush hour are pathetically slow.

I walk near Union Square every day on my way home from work, and every single time I'm at 5th Ave & 13th st. I drop a call... every single time... I can never hold a call near union square.

AT&T service is really not good in NYC. There's no point in my getting a 3Gs for faster 3G... it's all slow here, regardless of the model iPhone.

I drop about 15-20% of my calls. Near Union Square I drop 75-80% easily.

mattster16
Sep 30, 2009, 12:20 PM
wow Matt, you must live in a special area of Minneapolis, because my experience with AT&T coverage in Minny is terrible! I was over in St. Louis Park just yesterday and my wife and I both had NO SERVICE until we got into Edina, and when my wife was in downtown at her patent lawyers office (IDC) she had 1 bar on Edge, and could not stay connected for more than 30 seconds before dropping the call. Thankfully in Prior Lake, I have decent coverage.

That's odd because I get great service in St. Louis Park (I'm in that area a lot) and I live and work downtown and get great service both indoors and out. I very rarely go below 5 bars anywhere I am in the metro area - I only experience diminished service along I-35 heading north to Duluth. My roommate has an iPhone as well and has the same experience I do. I've had AT&T now for about 3 years and have never had problems. I do agree that Sprint has great service as well in MN, I had them before the iPhone came out.

sicembears
Sep 30, 2009, 12:58 PM
I had one of the 1000 I'm sure VPs of Verizon check into my hotel a few weeks before the iPhone launch. I asked him what he thought and he said the iPhone is amazing I wish we could have gotten it. He said watch though it will bring down AT&Ts network. He went on to talk about how their network is crap.......I still can't make, receive, send or get text messages or mail during any sporting event in my city. It was the same when it first came out and it is the same last week at the game. We'll see this week but I'm not holding my breath after this many years.

I believe him now.

rockosmodurnlif
Sep 30, 2009, 01:01 PM
My 3G runs on Edge typically. I haven't had the same dropped call experience. Would the network make a major difference here?

VenusianSky
Sep 30, 2009, 01:06 PM
So this is a headline article based on a diagnosis and opinion of an Apple Genius Bar technician? In additoin, it is coming from a reader on Gizmodo. It may or may not be true that 20-30% dropped call is expected for those areas, but why headline this article when it is merely coming from the voice of an Apple store representative? It is very deceptive and may trick people into believing that this is a factual statement coming from AT&T themselves. Too many people on the internet always believe what they read from any source and that is why the legitimate journalist are p o'd about the future of journalism and reportings.

Edit: Sorry, not headline, but front page.

rlreif
Sep 30, 2009, 01:08 PM
ATT, go check out HK to learn how to do it.:cool:

yeah exactly... they act like NYC and SF are the only densely populated places on earth, and good service just cant be achieved....

funny how Rogers doesnt have these problems in downtown Vancouver (which is denser than SF and almost as dense as Manhattan)

mattster16
Sep 30, 2009, 01:25 PM
.......I still can't make, receive, send or get text messages or mail during any sporting event in my city. It was the same when it first came out and it is the same last week at the game.

And it will always be that way unless the FCC allows more frequencies to be used for cell transmission. Data is breaking the system. A cell tower can only handle 50-300 'calls' at any given time due to frequency limitations (you can only time multiplex so much...). Data is even more of a bandwidth hog, harder to time multiplex w/o slowing down transmission drastically. People also use data much more often than voice now (especially the iPhone). When you have 10,000 people packed into a small area for an event what more can you expect? The area is probably covered by one tower (or if you're lucky a few small cell sites in the venue).

Unfortunately extending and increasing capacity of cell service isn't as simple as setting up a wireless router. Takes a bit more work and planning than that. It's also hard in the US due to FCC regulations/state regulations/city regulations and high public opposition to new cell towers.

proehrich
Sep 30, 2009, 01:30 PM
We could be trying to use the Iphone on T-mobile. :D

jasondono
Sep 30, 2009, 01:46 PM
Three to four bars of 3G at my house in suburban Detroit and I'm lucky if I can make a call and if I can, half the time it's dropped. And nobody can hear me anyway. I rarely receive calls and the missed call and voice-mails notifications don't show up till I leave home. Had Verizon for years and I can't remember ever dropping a call anywhere. But I love my iPhone and never did like Verizon.

This is exactly my experience in Brooklyn, NY. I'm considering going back to Verizon. How much does it cost o break the att contract?

joboy
Sep 30, 2009, 02:00 PM
I get about the same drop rate or worse in the DC Metro area. I also have friends on AT&T that have their text messages go to the wrong person. Thinking seriously of getting a Verizon BB and an iPod Touch to replace my iPhone. :(:(:( Sorry :apple:

Be careful. iPhone's superior web access is the future. I've been using a BlackBerry on Verizon and, although it's superior to many others, the iPhone's web superiority makes it so much more useful, that I'm migrating TO an iPhone. I'm just waiting until my contract breaking fee goes down a notch. I know I have company. RIM's sales are starting to sag somewhat while iPhone's are soaring. ATT is not my favorite network, but they will get better. The problem right now is that the iPhone is more advanced than the rest of the industry. Its users benefit, except when ATT's inadequacies get in the way.

Aadhil
Sep 30, 2009, 02:07 PM
You know what's funny? I've had ATT for over 5 years and have barely had 5 dropped calls and one of them was an iphone OS issue with OS 2.0. I live in the Silicon Valley so maybe coverage is just exceptionally good in my area, though I recall coverage being decent over in the Adirondacks in NY two years ago.

NoExpectations
Sep 30, 2009, 02:33 PM
The two biggest complaint areas are NY and San Fran. I bet if you took any phone, on any network, and drove around town thru hills and valleys (San Fran) and steel/concrete structures (San Fran and NY), you would have the same drop rate.

Physics is physics. Wireless signals do not like to propagate through steel, concrete, tinted windows, passing Semi's, etc.

CubusX
Sep 30, 2009, 02:35 PM
What happened to AT&T's campaign of "AT&T has the fewest dropped calls"??

False Advertising? I think so.

alecapple
Sep 30, 2009, 02:38 PM
In my opinion, I think that at&t should focus on spreading their 3g network to cities like the one that I live in, where there are at least 100,000 people residing in, rather than putting towers up on every street corner in NYC. It pisses me off that we pay the same price for phone service, yet we cant even take advantage of the 3g speeds. NYC has had 3g service for 5 years, yet we don't even have reliable EDGE service.

NoExpectations
Sep 30, 2009, 02:39 PM
So this is a headline article based on a diagnosis and opinion of an Apple Genius Bar technician? In additoin, it is coming from a reader on Gizmodo. It may or may not be true that 20-30% dropped call is expected for those areas, but why headline this article when it is merely coming from the voice of an Apple store representative? It is very deceptive and may trick people into believing that this is a factual statement coming from AT&T themselves. Too many people on the internet always believe what they read from any source and that is why the legitimate journalist are p o'd about the future of journalism and reportings.

Edit: Sorry, not headline, but front page.

Agreed. I'm not sure how much weight we should put in the response from a single low-level Apple employee...but for some reason, his/her opinion is now accepted as a fact.

I'm not saying that there are no service issues, but I wonder if they would be any better at Verizon (who refused the iPhone) or Sprint or T-Mobile.....or anyone else.

drnen
Sep 30, 2009, 03:17 PM
This is exactly my experience in Brooklyn, NY. I'm considering going back to Verizon. How much does it cost o break the att contract?

175 minus 5 dollars for every month completed under contract. I just looked up that info myself last week :)

kdarling
Sep 30, 2009, 03:46 PM
Safari is terrific, but phones with the latest Opera aren't too bad at all.

Verizon's got the Touch Pro 2 if you like keyboards, and soon the Imagio (info here (http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/New-pictures-of-the-HTC-Imagio-XV6975-for-Verizon-article-a_7140.html)), both of which are world phones (CDMA and GSM) with WVGA on a huge touchscreen.

They're supposed to be getting a couple of Android devices this year, and of course one or two Pre models early next. The days of Verizon being device barren seem to be disappearing.

As for the remark about big cities, everyone up here around NYC knows that Verizon takes pride in making sure there are no dead spots in their home area. Report one, and they'll fix it. They have literally thousands of mini cells on buildings downtown.

olimits7
Sep 30, 2009, 04:01 PM
Hi,

I'm thinking of switching from Verizon to AT&T to get the iPhone. However, I'm hearing horror stories of up to 30% dropped calls in the NY area.

For all iPhone/AT&T users in northern NJ and NYC area, can you verify that you experience around 30% of dropped calls?? is this true??

http://gizmodo.com/5370493/apple-genius-bar-iphones-30-call-drop-is-normal-in-new-york

I want the iPhone, but not if it comes with such bad service!!

Thank you,

olimits7

FearNo1
Sep 30, 2009, 04:08 PM
Dropped calls is a feature of the iphone... enjoy ;)

Rooskibar03
Sep 30, 2009, 04:10 PM
Dropped calls is a feature of the iphone... enjoy ;)

I think thats under the "Easter Egg" section of features.

RandomGuy26
Sep 30, 2009, 04:14 PM
Hi,

I'm thinking of switching from Verizon to AT&T to get the iPhone. However, I'm hearing horror stories of up to 30% dropped calls in the NY area.

For all iPhone/AT&T users in northern NJ and NYC area, can you verify that you experience around 30% of dropped calls?? is this true??

http://gizmodo.com/5370493/apple-genius-bar-iphones-30-call-drop-is-normal-in-new-york

I want the iPhone, but not if it comes with such bad service!!

Thank you,

olimits7


I totally agree.. atleast 1 in four calls is definitely dropped in this area.. i dont blame the iphone though.. its AT&T.. cause i never used to drop calls on my iphone in upstate ny

electroshock
Sep 30, 2009, 04:22 PM
Just curious... is that special tool the only way to get the call stats from your iPhone? Sounded like interesting data.

olimits7
Sep 30, 2009, 04:46 PM
Thanks for the replies...

Ok, so AT&T definitely drops calls; that's a given it seems...but for current customers is the dropped calls enough of a pain to leave AT&T/iPhone and go to another carrier??

Thank you,

olimits7

rjohnstone
Sep 30, 2009, 05:04 PM
I'd say it's more of a yes and no on AT&T quality.
While their service may be spotty in certain locations, the iPhone doesn't exactly have the most stellar antenna.
My iPhone has dropped calls in locations where my N75 (also on AT&T) has never missed a beat.

olimits7
Sep 30, 2009, 05:10 PM
True, that's a good point...I guess the issue is partly due to the iPhone and AT&T's network.

crackbookpro
Sep 30, 2009, 05:14 PM
As for the remark about big cities, everyone up here around NYC knows that Verizon takes pride in making sure there are no dead spots in their home area. Report one, and they'll fix it. They have literally thousands of mini cells on buildings downtown.

KDarling, I was wondering what these mini cells look like on buildings...

Nine9si
Sep 30, 2009, 05:39 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A400 Safari/528.16)

Yeah, I hardly try to make calls. I'd rather text or email because even here in LA calls get dropped alot.

cpgallo
Sep 30, 2009, 05:52 PM
I live in upstate NY and I've only had maybe 2-3 dropped calls on my iPhone since I've had the 3g. I now have the 3gs and it's the same.

Mischka07
Sep 30, 2009, 06:12 PM
TBH, I'd rather deal with dropped calls than VZW's inability to handle data and phone calls at the same time. I had a lot of OTA programs on my Tour and Storm, and I missed about 1/4 calls that were sent to me. Most were during the working day. The worst was when my mom was frantically trying to reach me because my grandmother had to go to the ER.

The Californian
Sep 30, 2009, 06:33 PM
Would it be out of line for me to suggest that AT&T should hire an outside agency to determine what the normal dropped call percentage is in each market, and then offer those markets a monthly discount on their rate equal to that percentage?

I am in Southern California, Orange County area and would say my dropped call rate is around 20%. I spent some time in San Francisco in July and the service was horrible, my biggest problem was with data and the accuracy of maps ... which can be an issue when you're walking around a town like that and you've never been there.

Mischka07
Sep 30, 2009, 07:01 PM
Would it be out of line for me to suggest that AT&T should hire an outside agency to determine what the normal dropped call percentage is in each market, and then offer those markets a monthly discount on their rate equal to that percentage?

I am in Southern California, Orange County area and would say my dropped call rate is around 20%. I spent some time in San Francisco in July and the service was horrible, my biggest problem was with data and the accuracy of maps ... which can be an issue when you're walking around a town like that and you've never been there.

Stupid question, but they don't already use an outside agency for that?

OT: I used to live in Aliso Viejo (OC) and had Cingular for my carrier. Over a 60 day period, the service got so bad in my house I could no longer make/receive phone calls. When I called CS to complain about the service, I was told that the contract I signed never states Cingular was required to provide cell service. I still don't know if that was true or not, but I dropped them that day and went with VZW.

NoExpectations
Sep 30, 2009, 07:03 PM
Thanks for the replies...

Ok, so AT&T definitely drops calls; that's a given it seems...but for current customers is the dropped calls enough of a pain to leave AT&T/iPhone and go to another carrier??

Thank you,

olimits7

I recommend trying it yourself.....you have 30 days to try it and see if you experience dropped calls in your area.

electroshock
Sep 30, 2009, 07:06 PM
OT: I used to live in Aliso Viejo (OC) and had Cingular for my carrier. Over a 60 day period, the service got so bad in my house I could no longer make/receive phone calls. When I called CS to complain about the service, I was told that the contract I signed never states Cingular was required to provide cell service. I still don't know if that was true or not, but I dropped them that day and went with VZW.

Errr... wtf??? :eek: Dang. To date, that's the dumbest answer I've ever heard CS give.

iphones4evry1
Sep 30, 2009, 07:50 PM
I guarantee you that Sprint, Tmobile, Verizon, and all of AT&T's other competitors are going to jump on this and make sure it is in every television commercial, print ad, radio commercial, and every other form of possible advertisement. "Do you want to have 30% of all of your calls dropped?..."

phineas
Sep 30, 2009, 08:16 PM
From the local AT&T reps here in town they just do NOT give a crap. There network sucks, and the bigshots get there big fat checks and thats it.

They will NEVER catch up, heck they don't even have 3G in every place that they have there bars in the advertisements.

They have the iPhone deal/contract and do not give a dam, money rolls in and goes back out in dribs and drabs.

Come on Verizon and Apple.

I like another posters opinion, get a BB on Verizon and an iPod touch. Luckily my contract is over in December.

Chaos123x
Sep 30, 2009, 08:52 PM
I live in Delaware and work in Philly and I get full 3g bars all the time with no dropped calls.

But I went to NYC today at the New York game conference and I could barely even get a edge signal! My buddies iPhone would not work either. Turns out 99% of the people at the event had iPhones and we all had the same problem

Soon as we left NYC we got full 3G bars again n

Inakto
Sep 30, 2009, 09:25 PM
Dropped calls is a feature of the iphone... enjoy ;)

I live in toronto, canada, and here the service is great. We've had MMS since day 1 as well as tethering. Its all lightning fast. Basically no dropped calls and issues like that, but we do pay a small premium.

Luba
Sep 30, 2009, 09:41 PM
Is Verizon and the competition any better? I don't think so, and that's why AT&T can get away with not investing in additional towers.

AT&T is collecting our money, but not spending the money needed to provide the service we are paying for. I suppose it's great on paper for them and their bottom line, but at some point will this catch up with them?? We are at least a generation behind the rest of the world but AT&T can get away with it because the rest of the competition is doing the same.

I wonder what is pushing the other countries into 4G, and at this rate we may soon be 2 generations behind. A similar situation exists with internet broadband where the rest of the world gets faster internet than us. :(

kalafalas
Sep 30, 2009, 11:43 PM
Having worked very closely with the head engineers of AT&T, I do feel sorry for them. As someone stated earlier, that are spending billions to upgrade the network, but all that money will only meet current demand in some areas. The iPhone is such an incredible success that AT&T never had a chance. The same would be said about Verizon had they got the exclusive contract. If you want to lay the blame at anyones feet, it should be Apple. They should have made a CDMA version and split the load between the networks.

actually, you are 100% wrong, if you read your history, you would know that apple did everything in there power to get it on as many carriers as possible for this exact reason. and the only company that would take the phone and give 100% control of the operating system was AT&T, and that was under the circumstances of a exclusive contract. And apple did the correct thing, because can you imagine what a iPhone would be if it was tightly controlled by the carrier? i can. its called a LG dare. and every other ****** touch screen phone out there.

Apple had the correct idea, split the load onto as many carriers as possible. but that couldn't happen, because the carriers are bitched greedy bastards, all of them, AT&T being the least bad of all of them, letting apple have control in the first place.

And as for making a CDMA version, thats pure stupid. because thats a dead technology that very few companies use, and only in one country. everywhere else, they use HSDPA, example europe, where the iPhone is available on many carriers, all using HSDPA standard, and there having 0 problems.

So no, Apple is not to blame, they did everything in there power to make it as perfect as possible, and they did. AT&T is to blame, for being greedy and only wanting this phone on there network only.

Cartaphilus
Oct 1, 2009, 12:18 AM
I'm not questioning those reporting their first-hand experience with an unacceptable level of dropped calls, but the posted repair report drafted by a Genius Bar tech is hardly documentation of AT&T's service levels, much less an official tolerance of that level. This tech was only reporting that he examined the iPhone and it was performing according to spec, and that its performance in use would be consistent with whatever level of service AT&T was providing at the time.

I realize this is beside the point for those disappointed with their AT&T service, but someone was wrong on the Internet, and it's my lot in life to stay up past 1 a.m. to straighten things like this out. <sigh>

nastebu
Oct 1, 2009, 04:10 AM
I'm not questioning those reporting their first-hand experience with an unacceptable level of dropped calls, but the posted repair report drafted by a Genius Bar tech is hardly documentation of AT&T's service levels, much less an official tolerance of that level. This tech was only reporting that he examined the iPhone and it was performing according to spec, and that its performance in use would be consistent with whatever level of service AT&T was providing at the time.

I realize this is beside the point for those disappointed with their AT&T service, but someone was wrong on the Internet, and it's my lot in life to stay up past 1 a.m. to straighten things like this out. <sigh>

This has been said a bunch of times in the thread, but people are still acting as if this is a definitive statement on iPhone service in NYC. It is not. The headline is very deceptive. All that's shown in this case is that one person experienced at least a 22% dropped call rate, and that an Apple technical service person determined that this drop rate was not caused by the iPhone's hardware. That's it.

CubusX
Oct 1, 2009, 06:11 AM
Dropped calls is a feature of the iphone... enjoy ;)

There's an app for that.:)

iOrlando
Oct 1, 2009, 08:19 AM
yeah 30% of calls are dropped sounds about right...

carlgo
Oct 1, 2009, 08:51 AM
It's interesting how cell service works. Here's a simplistic summary:

Only a certain number of users can use a tower at any given time. There is only a certain range of frequencies that can be used. All towers use these same frequencies. This means that each tower must not overlap the others in terms of coverage area and frequenceis. To ensure this, companies actually use different frequency ranges on adjacent towers. Further limiting how many users can use each tower.

The solution to this is to create smaller cell sites that cover a smaller area (and therefore will have fewer users at any given time). The problem with this is that each new cell site requires a new tower. With all the opposition to new tower construction it can take months or years to get approval to build one.

With the massive growth in cell usage companies are having to create smaller and smaller cell sites. Because of the way the system works putting up one new tower requires the reconfiguration of all the adjacent towers. Their signal area must be changed, their frequencies must be changed and it all must be integrated together.

When you get a dropped call, it's usually because you are moving into another cell site (serviced by a new tower). Your call must be handed off to the new tower. If this new tower is at capacity or overloaded, failures happen.

This is why it sucks for very high density areas.

Luckily in Minneapolis we have very good AT&T coverage. I get very fast 3G speeds and <1% dropped calls everywhere I go. Thank you urban sprawl for spreading everyone out.. When I was in NYC I noticed by data speeds were much slower. I didn't make enough calls to have any problems with that though.

Nice explanation. It seems that the whole idea of cell towers is unworkable. You think it is bad in the cities? Even semi-rural areas have no coverage at all.

There has to be an entirely new technology for this, or the use of satellites or aircraft instead of silly towers. C'mon Apple, solve this problem.

damage00
Oct 1, 2009, 11:19 AM
Nice explanation. It seems that the whole idea of cell towers is unworkable. You think it is bad in the cities? Even semi-rural areas have no coverage at all.

There has to be an entirely new technology for this, or the use of satellites or aircraft instead of silly towers. C'mon Apple, solve this problem.

That's like saying:
Nice explanation. It seems that the whole idea of freeways is unworkable. You think traffic is bad in the cities? Even semi-rural areas have no pavement at all.

There has to be an entirely new form of transportation for this, or the use of maglev or star trek transporters instead of silly roads. C'mon Toyota (maker of the Prius), solve this problem.

I'm not picking on you, carlgo. I'm saying, what you suggest is a little like throwing the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Cell works, and has been working since the mid-80's and trillions of calls have been successfully placed. Apple didn't design it so they don't get the credit or the blame -- all they did was bring a new gadget to market. It's not the tech that is bad, it's the implementation that is at fault.

And it's AT&T's implementation that is to blame -- because it is cheap. Take a look at their stock price since the iPhone was introduced. They *want* $100 bucks every month from every customer in the US, but they aren't willing to reinvest enough of that into an infrastructure to support the number of customers they negotiated for.

Corporations tend establish ad campaigns to counter bad press or customer concerns/complaints, not what they do well. For instance, AT&T has the iPhone and no one else does. That's good. You would think they want to tell the world about that. No. It runs television spots for their Samsung/LG/etc. but not the iPhone.

On the other hand, AT&T has lousy coverage. Just look at your bars in SFO or NYC or even most of New Mexico -- doesn't matter where -- that's not a bandwidth issue. It's coverage. That's bad, so they advertise "more bars in more areas". These ads usually play on emotions, like two young lovers being separated, or they borrow on another organizations goodwill, like a company that gives shoes to the poor. They do not use demonstration or facts, because there aren't any. When I see these, I interpret them as the corporation's admission there is a problem.

Maccin475
Oct 1, 2009, 01:49 PM
THIS IS DISGRACEFUL !!!!!!!!!

With AT&T being the cell phone carrier that charges the most, they should be EXPECTED to provide the best quality service in the industry. If AT&T thinks 30% of all calls being dropped is "normal," this is absolutely unacceptable! So this means that of every ten phone calls to 911, 3 being dropped is "normal" and acceptable????? And major corporations with thousands of employees are supposed to sign up for cell service with AT&T, knowing that 30% of all calls (with customers) being dropped is, in AT&T's eyes, acceptable???????? :eek: :eek: :eek:

All emergency calls are placed on a separate priority line/ or are given preference over all other calls at any point in time.

3goldens
Oct 1, 2009, 02:02 PM
AT&T has hands down the worst service I have ever experienced.

It is as though they were operating in an emerging mobile phone world sometime in the early 80's when phones were the size of a Sat phone or you carried it in its own portable case.

In all the years I was with Verizon I had maybe 10 dropped calls.

They should be ashamed of themselves. But really what do they care, they have the iphone exclusively for the time being.
I must say this reflects poorly on Apple who picked these idiots in the first place.

Honestly, on a day to day basis, I think about going back and just giving up, the service is just terrible and I live in NYC! Where there are towers everywhere, and I usually have 5 bars.

Despicable profit seeking, customer service unfriendly whores is what they are!

3goldens
Oct 1, 2009, 02:07 PM
Stay with Verizon and get yourself an Itouch ipod!

Hi,

I'm thinking of switching from Verizon to AT&T to get the iPhone. However, I'm hearing horror stories of up to 30% dropped calls in the NY area.

For all iPhone/AT&T users in northern NJ and NYC area, can you verify that you experience around 30% of dropped calls?? is this true??

http://gizmodo.com/5370493/apple-genius-bar-iphones-30-call-drop-is-normal-in-new-york

I want the iPhone, but not if it comes with such bad service!!

Thank you,

olimits7

Rodimus Prime
Oct 1, 2009, 02:28 PM
All emergency calls are placed on a separate priority line/ or are given preference over all other calls at any point in time.

On top of that they will grab the tower with the best signal no matter what carrier it is on.

If you place a 911 call from an ATT phone and T-Mobile has a better tower in the area then you can sure as hell bet that the phone will be going to that tower.

emergency mode on a phone is very different than a normal call. It has the power to kick others off the line and you are given more dedicated bandwithe for the phone.

DMann
Oct 1, 2009, 02:36 PM
AT&T has hands down the worst service I have ever experienced.

It is as though they were operating in an emerging mobile phone world sometime in the early 80's when phones were the size of a Sat phone or you carried it in its own portable case.

In all the years I was with Verizon I had maybe 10 dropped calls.

They should be ashamed of themselves. But really what do they care, they have the iphone exclusively for the time being.
I must say this reflects poorly on Apple who picked these idiots in the first place.

Honestly, on a day to day basis, I think about going back and just giving up, the service is just terrible and I live in NYC! Where there are towers everywhere, and I usually have 5 bars.

Despicable profit seeking, customer service unfriendly whores is what they are!Blame Verizon then. Apple approached Verizon first, and Verizon was unwilling to allow Apple to have full control over the OS, the design of the iPhone

itself, or to make concessions regarding profit sharing. CDMA would not have been an ideal choice for a global phone, in any event.

Hi,

I'm thinking of switching from Verizon to AT&T to get the iPhone. However, I'm hearing horror stories of up to 30% dropped calls in the NY area.

For all iPhone/AT&T users in northern NJ and NYC area, can you verify that you experience around 30% of dropped calls?? is this true??

http://gizmodo.com/5370493/apple-genius-bar-iphones-30-call-drop-is-normal-in-new-york

I want the iPhone, but not if it comes with such bad service!!

Thank you,

olimits7Northern NJ: zero dropped calls, excellent coverage overall.

NYC (UpperWest Side): 3-5% dropped calls, if even that. Excellent coverage, compromised when inside certain areas of buildings, but for the most part, fine.

McBeats
Oct 1, 2009, 03:13 PM
wow... that is such ****! pardon my french but that is rediculous... they gonna discount the bill by a 30%? they ought to. totally unacceptable.

I got verizon, and I RARELY get dropped calls nowadays, the service got better over the years... im not gonna lie and say it never happens, but i dont remember the last time i had one.

to be fair with AT&T i gotta ask, are those calls only 30 seconds long or 30 minutes long and then gets dropped? 30 second dropped call would piss me off compared to a 30 minute one. if it drops at 30 minutes AT&T is doing ya a favor not accidently running up the minutes hahah

Mischka07
Oct 1, 2009, 03:35 PM
wow... that is such ****! pardon my french but that is rediculous... they gonna discount the bill by a 30%? they ought to. totally unacceptable.

I got verizon, and I RARELY get dropped calls nowadays, the service got better over the years... im not gonna lie and say it never happens, but i dont remember the last time i had one.

to be fair with AT&T i gotta ask, are those calls only 30 seconds long or 30 minutes long and then gets dropped? 30 second dropped call would piss me off compared to a 30 minute one. if it drops at 30 minutes AT&T is doing ya a favor not accidently running up the minutes hahah

I've had AT&T and the iPhone for a week now. I've experienced about 4 dropped calls thus far, 3 of them were in downtown San Francisco. My calls rarely last over 5 minutes, but 2 of the dropped calls happened as I was dialing out. 1 dropped call was after 4 minutes on the phone, and I can't remember when the last dropped call happened.

That said, I've probably made and received a total of 150 calls in the past week, so a 3% dropped call ratio isn't too terrible.

alent1234
Oct 1, 2009, 03:41 PM
i have a family plan with a 3G, 3GS and 2 cheapo phones. my wife and her parents came from Verizon. we live in NYC and no one ever complains about dropped calls. i've had a few from inside a converted factory building with very thick walls

the most dropped calls i have are to my mom in colorado who has t-mobile. those drop on a land line all the time as well

buckdutter
Oct 1, 2009, 04:26 PM
wow Matt, you must live in a special area of Minneapolis, because my experience with AT&T coverage in Minny is terrible! I was over in St. Louis Park just yesterday and my wife and I both had NO SERVICE until we got into Edina, and when my wife was in downtown at her patent lawyers office (IDC) she had 1 bar on Edge, and could not stay connected for more than 30 seconds before dropping the call. Thankfully in Prior Lake, I have decent coverage.
I have had Sprint service for 7 years before switching over 2 years ago with AT&T, and if it were not for this device, I would be back on Sprint.
I am tired of all the excuses I hear from AT&T every time I call them about their coverage, its a joke. What makes me and everyone I know upset, is this is AT&T we are talking about, not a 3rd rate, fly by night provider... I pay a premium price every month, and do not get anywhere close to a premium service in return.
I cant wait for this phone to be with a different carrier, the second it becomes available, I am switched over!

I would get your phone checked. I have lived in Minneapolis and travel all over the Twin Cities for work...and I have never had an issue with coverage. Only place I used to consistently get dropped calls was 169 & 494 intersection. Either your are grossly exaggerating, or your phone is literally defective.

One thing I have noticed is that the iPhone struggles switching from 3G to EDGE. My wife has an E71x, and I have played around with both in iffy areas. The E71x transitions (seemingly) seemlessly and easily...the iPhone hangs on 3G even at 0 bars if EDGE is available at 5. I am starting to suspect that some of these issues in various places are both network related (duh), and software related.

At any rate...I have nothing but good things to say about the coverage in Minneapolis...and certainly have never had an issue stretching from a distance like St Louis park to Edina. I would get your phone checked.

Thunder82
Oct 1, 2009, 04:37 PM
Blame Verizon then. Apple approached Verizon first, and Verizon was unwilling to allow Apple to have full control over the OS, the design of the iPhone .

Don't believe everything you read on the web, this is 100% not true. If Apple was in the business of limiting devices sales to the US market, Verizon would have been a great option. Fortunately, or unfortunately, (depending on how you look at it) GSM is essentially the global standard for 2G, so AT&T or T-mobile would have been the only possible carriers for the iPhone

Thunder82
Oct 1, 2009, 04:45 PM
wow... that is such ****! pardon my french but that is rediculous... they gonna discount the bill by a 30%? they ought to. totally unacceptable.

I got verizon, and I RARELY get dropped calls nowadays, the service got better over the years... im not gonna lie and say it never happens, but i dont remember the last time i had one.

to be fair with AT&T i gotta ask, are those calls only 30 seconds long or 30 minutes long and then gets dropped? 30 second dropped call would piss me off compared to a 30 minute one. if it drops at 30 minutes AT&T is doing ya a favor not accidently running up the minutes hahah

Do some research on what tall buildings do to cell towers/signal and the ability for your phone to handle constant hand-offs between thousands of towers. Trust me, sky scrapers make it impossible for Verizons, T-mobile, or any other carriers service to be much better than the rest. The other carriers are just better about hiding their shortcomings from the public.

DMann
Oct 1, 2009, 11:53 PM
Don't believe everything you read on the web, this is 100% not true. If Apple was in the business of limiting devices sales to the US market, Verizon would have been a great option. Fortunately, or unfortunately, (depending on how you look at it) GSM is essentially the global standard for 2G, so AT&T or T-mobile would have been the only possible carriers for the iPhonePerhaps you meant not 100% true. I have heard, from multiple sources, that Verizon wanted more influence on the design of the phone, layout of the OS, and structure of apps and distribution, as well as a larger share of profit. If you have information which suggests otherwise, please do tell. As stated before, a GSM carrier makes more sense for a global phone. Now, with its proven success, perhaps Verizon would be more willing to make some concessions for marketing the iPhone in the USA, as this would greatly relieve the bandwidth burden AT&T is currently experiencing.

kamek
Oct 2, 2009, 12:01 AM
My calls drop all the time.

applextrent
Oct 2, 2009, 03:39 AM
Only 30%?

In Orange County California I honestly have about a 60% dropped call rate.

lpingaud
Oct 2, 2009, 10:14 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/09/29/atandt-dropped-call-rate-of-30-considered-normal-in-new-york-city/)

Gizmodo reports (http://gizmodo.com/5370493/apple-genius-bar-iphones-30-call-drop-is-normal-in-new-york) that one of its readers recently visited the Genius Bar at the SoHo Apple retail store (http://www.apple.com/retail/soho/) in New York City complaining that 30% of his attempted calls were being dropped, and was informed after testing that such performance was considered normal by AT&T's standards for the area. The reader provided Gizmodo with a copy of the Genius Bar work authorization form noting the technician's assessment of the situation.AT&T has acknowledged that it has struggled with service performance in areas of high iPhone density such as the New York City and San Francisco Bay areas, and has recently taken steps (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/02/atandt-announces-850-mhz-3g-coverage-improvements-in-new-york-city-and-other-markets/) to enhance 3G service in those and other markets.

Article Link: AT&T Dropped Call Rate of 30% Considered Normal in New York City (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/09/29/atandt-dropped-call-rate-of-30-considered-normal-in-new-york-city/)

if ATT admits that 30% of dropped calls is normal, it will be normal that they give discounts ?!?!?!?! they wouldnt think thats normal !!!! what a shame to have the best phone on the worst service operator ...

phineas
Oct 2, 2009, 10:21 AM
Come on Verizon, 2010 and the iPhone, yea baby, a REAL network , with real support, and not some call center junkie who doesn't know jack about the device and the network

aristotle
Oct 2, 2009, 10:45 AM
If you want to lay the blame at anyones feet, it should be Apple. They should have made a CDMA version and split the load between the networks.
I can just imagine the lawsuits from clueless american consumers complaining that their iPhone from verizon does not work in Europe like their friends AT&T iPhone.
:rolleyes:
CDMA is a dying technology. That is why verizon is switching to LTE (4G GSM).

The blame does not lay with Apple. The blame rests solely on the entire wireless industry who have been claiming "unlimited" data on phones that were too crippled by a lack of features or crappy software like browsers for people to even bother trying to use a lot of data bandwidth. The iPhone changed all of that and AT&T should have offered capped plans but then a bunch of american consumers with a sense of entitlement would have complained that Verizon were offering unlimited data on their crappy phones.

The iPhone was such a major game changer in how people use wireless data that no carrier in the US would have been prepared for the load. In Europe, where the Nokia smart phones are more popular, there was higher data usage long before the iPhone came to the scene. In North America, most phones offered texting and WAP internet access. Smartphone usage was much lower in our region compared with Europe.

alent1234
Oct 2, 2009, 11:35 AM
Nice explanation. It seems that the whole idea of cell towers is unworkable. You think it is bad in the cities? Even semi-rural areas have no coverage at all.

There has to be an entirely new technology for this, or the use of satellites or aircraft instead of silly towers. C'mon Apple, solve this problem.

or lobby your local government not to oppose new towers because a few idiots think it spoils the view

dwhittington
Oct 2, 2009, 06:32 PM
yeah 30% of calls are dropped sounds about right...

I worked in NYC for a while too. Seems right on par. Way to go AT&T.

3goldens
Oct 2, 2009, 11:26 PM
Do some research on what tall buildings do to cell towers/signal and the ability for your phone to handle constant hand-offs between thousands of towers. Trust me, sky scrapers make it impossible for Verizons, T-mobile, or any other carriers service to be much better than the rest. The other carriers are just better about hiding their shortcomings from the public.

HORSE *****!
I HAD NOT ONE DROPPED CALL WITH VERIZON IN 5 YEARS.

Andrew Henry
Oct 2, 2009, 11:45 PM
HORSE *****!
I HAD NOT ONE DROPPED CALL WITH VERIZON IN 5 YEARS.

That's awesome would you like a cookie? If you like VZW so much, you're more than welcome to go back to them so you can have another 5 wonderful years of no dropped calls.

Rodimus Prime
Oct 3, 2009, 01:41 AM
Do some research on what tall buildings do to cell towers/signal and the ability for your phone to handle constant hand-offs between thousands of towers. Trust me, sky scrapers make it impossible for Verizons, T-mobile, or any other carriers service to be much better than the rest. The other carriers are just better about hiding their shortcomings from the public.

HORSE *****!
I HAD NOT ONE DROPPED CALL WITH VERIZON IN 5 YEARS.

No he is right. They all struggle with sky scrapers. Verizon happens to use a stronger signal than AT&T so it cuts threw building a little better but on top of that Verizon does not have to deal with towers being over loaded by iPhone users.
Most of the drop calls happen during tower hand offs and if the tower you need to be handed off to is max out well your call gets dropped.

Now if you want example of Verizon problems I was getting dropped calls all the time for months a few years ago with verizon and dump them for sprint.

As for example of building problems on another carrier sprint I could give you a this strip on campus about 50'x50' that as soon as you walked into it your call would drop. Same area multiple sprint phones multiple calls. Just a random dead zone on campus for sprint. AT&T had at least one spot on campus that was almost the exact same way. Skyscrappers make it insane for all carriers to deal with and on top of that you have tons of tower hand offs.

iAmLegend
Oct 3, 2009, 09:23 AM
If you like VZW so much, you're more than welcome to go back to them.

That's exactly what I did :)

Having grown tired of the terrible AT&T service in NYC (and realizing that everything I love about the iPhone has nothing to do with it's phone capabilities) I terminated my contract with AT&T (paid $100), sold my iPhone, went back to Verizon and got a Blackberry Tour and bough a new iPod Touch. It's so nice having reliable phone service again and the BB Tour is a fantastic phone. These things are so light that carrying two items instead of one isn't even an issue (maybe many years ago when cellphones weighed a ton and MP3 players looked like VCRs it would have been).

Best of both worlds. :cool:

Kilamite
Oct 3, 2009, 09:43 AM
This is exactly why I turn 3G off on my iPhone. The reception in Edinburgh is appalling - I walk around the city and my phone is constantly skipping between GPRS and 3G. And sometimes it'll just say "No Service" until I turn 3G off and it forces GPRS connection.

I think the iPhone has really outlined the flaws and poor reception that carriers have in some major areas.

savar
Oct 3, 2009, 09:45 AM
I get about the same drop rate or worse in the DC Metro area. I also have friends on AT&T that have their text messages go to the wrong person. Thinking seriously of getting a Verizon BB and an iPod Touch to replace my iPhone. :(:(:( Sorry :apple:

That's so weird. I live in DC and for my job I drive all around the greater metro area. And I can't even remember ever dropping a single call.

Xibalba
Oct 4, 2009, 06:39 PM
Don't you just love AT&T? :D

(BTW, there's a few good reasons I use Verizon.)

One of those reasons is that there is no AT&T signal at my house.

same here - literally maybe one bar in the house - texts usually come through when not in basement but definitely no calls. And i'm still loving the iphone every day - practically indispensable at work with epocrates.

thus while 30% sounds bad esp for a large metropolitan area, that would be great for me in my home.

waiting for that femtocell type product release - hurry up AT&T...

Applepi
Oct 4, 2009, 07:53 PM
I had to sell my beloved iPhone and kick AT&T to the curb because I get zero service here in my home just outside of Phoenix. I was so fed up with the dropped calls and AT&T had nothing but excuses for me, they also told me to wait til the next quarter so I could purchase a cell booster for home. What a joke.

RiverFox
Oct 4, 2009, 09:01 PM
A few things...

I've also had Verizon now for 4 years, and I've maybe during that time had 2 dropped calls. Not bad for 4 years of service.

As a consumer, when is 30% failure rate, acceptable?

And then these femtocells. If they (the provider) can't give you access you're paying for, is it really fair that they charge you on top of what you're already paying, to sell you a device that is supposed to boost the service you're already paying for?

:confused:

Xibalba
Oct 4, 2009, 09:15 PM
And then these femtocells. If they (the provider) can't give you access you're paying for, is it really fair that they charge you on top of what you're already paying, to sell you a device that is supposed to boost the service you're already paying for?
:confused:

no, it's not fair - esp if other providers have good coverage in that same area. it's like you are triple paying - femtocell, wireless phone, and internet - just to get wireless phone which you were already paying for.

however for me, no cell provider has decent coverage in our home based on terrain/location so i will absolutely pay extra to get better cell coverage in our house - although it really hasn't been too hard to use the vonage line instead of the cell when we are home...but I would love to be able to get cell service for texting especially while in my basement theater/pub area.

and, yes i have already installed a cell booster in the attic without significant success.

falcon99
Oct 5, 2009, 09:38 AM
Seems like we have the same drop rate here. From all of these posts it looks like ATT has a problem in many metro areas.

fredfnord
Oct 5, 2009, 06:52 PM
Not that anyone is reading this thread still, but just in case some of you are:

If you are missing incoming texts, calls, and/or voicemails, when you're in a covered area, this MAY NOT BE A NETWORK PROBLEM.

I had a Blackberry that had all these problems two years ago, and I eventually mentioned it to a savvy AT&T rep. He got me a replacement SIM card and all the problems went away as if by magic.

Also, just another anecdotal experience: I live in San Francisco and spend most of my time here, and I haven't had a dropped call since I got my iPhone a few months ago. However, I have run into numerous situations where the data connection stopped working. In fact, to give an idea of the magnitude of the problem: I walk to work. I like to listen to a streaming internet radio station, one which tacks a ten second ad to the beginning every time you start the stream but otherwise does not have any ads. The last time I tried to listen to it while walking home from work, I literally heard the ad for more total time than I heard the station. Which is to say, the stream very rarely worked for more than twenty seconds at a time.

-fred

EarthDawn
Oct 5, 2009, 07:14 PM
Man thats some sad #'s .... thank god its not like that on the Island....

alent1234
Oct 6, 2009, 01:30 PM
Not that anyone is reading this thread still, but just in case some of you are:

If you are missing incoming texts, calls, and/or voicemails, when you're in a covered area, this MAY NOT BE A NETWORK PROBLEM.

I had a Blackberry that had all these problems two years ago, and I eventually mentioned it to a savvy AT&T rep. He got me a replacement SIM card and all the problems went away as if by magic.

Also, just another anecdotal experience: I live in San Francisco and spend most of my time here, and I haven't had a dropped call since I got my iPhone a few months ago. However, I have run into numerous situations where the data connection stopped working. In fact, to give an idea of the magnitude of the problem: I walk to work. I like to listen to a streaming internet radio station, one which tacks a ten second ad to the beginning every time you start the stream but otherwise does not have any ads. The last time I tried to listen to it while walking home from work, I literally heard the ad for more total time than I heard the station. Which is to say, the stream very rarely worked for more than twenty seconds at a time.

-fred

i bet AT&T considers voice more critical than data and gives it higher priority on their circuits that connect the towers to their network

tny
Oct 6, 2009, 04:23 PM
You are assuming that the amount of spectrum available will never change. There's a reason they just shut off analog TV. Yes, spectrum is a finite resource, but they're shifting more to mobile voice/data very soon.

You are also assuming that all the frequencies available to each tower are already in use on that tower - that the towers are saturated. I think that's an unlikely assumption, outside very dense areas like Manhattan and DC. (And in Manhattan, you probably don't have the whole "can't get towers approved because of community opposition" problem because the towers are just installed on or in existing buildings, albeit at some expense; and you probably need a denser tower population anyway because of all the ground clutter; so a denser tower population probably already exists).

I imagine that the transceivers used on the towers have channel limits - that each transceiver can only handle a certain number of handsets k, within the limits of the number of available frequency sets n (the phone doesn't just use one frequency; I'm pretty sure they are spread-spectrum devices, so you are better off thinking of frequency sets rather than frequencies), and that k <<< n . That would explain AT&T's claims that their ongoing upgrades will mitigate the problem - they may be upgrading the transceivers on the towers so that each tower can use more of the frequencies theoretically available than has been true so far.

The other cell companies also have to segregate their frequencies from one another. If T-Mobile (the other GSM/3G carrier) isn't having this problem, it means either a. their network utilization is a lot lower, or b. they're doing something right and AT&T is doing something wrong. That's also true with the CDMA carriers, of course, but I think they use different parts of the spectrum - and Verizon is a pretty big network.


It's interesting how cell service works. Here's a simplistic summary:

Only a certain number of users can use a tower at any given time. There is only a certain range of frequencies that can be used. All towers use these same frequencies. This means that each tower must not overlap the others in terms of coverage area and frequenceis. To ensure this, companies actually use different frequency ranges on adjacent towers. Further limiting how many users can use each tower.

[cropped out a lot of the quote]

When I was in NYC I noticed by data speeds were much slower. I didn't make enough calls to have any problems with that though.

LessBars
Oct 14, 2009, 02:21 AM
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DmbShn41
Oct 14, 2009, 08:56 AM
THIS IS DISGRACEFUL !!!!!!!!!

With AT&T being the cell phone carrier that charges the most, they should be EXPECTED to provide the best quality service in the industry. If AT&T thinks 30% of all calls being dropped is "normal," this is absolutely unacceptable! So this means that of every ten phone calls to 911, 3 being dropped is "normal" and acceptable????? And major corporations with thousands of employees are supposed to sign up for cell service with AT&T, knowing that 30% of all calls (with customers) being dropped is, in AT&T's eyes, acceptable???????? :eek: :eek: :eek:

Wow, you really need to take a chill pill. 911 services dont work exactly like every other phone call. And the 30% is for the NYC metro area, which is has about 20 million other people within a few blocks making calls on their cells too, which creates quite a bit of confusion, signal wise. And lets not forget the buildings, and their makeup of steel/iron frames. And then all the WiFi signal that is being broadcasted around.

SO yeah there is quite a bit of a hurdle there, but what is even more interesting is what is Verizon, T-Mobile, etc acceptable rate of dropped calls for NYC area? Do you think any lower? Maybe next time you should think before you overreact, and then just not saying anything if it's anything like this?

OhioSandy
Oct 16, 2009, 10:16 AM
I had the same issues but yesterday I updated to the 3.1 and my iPhone is now back to normal. It took apple 2 loooooong weeks to fix this but it's finally corrected.

OhioSandy
Oct 16, 2009, 10:18 AM
HORSE *****!
I HAD NOT ONE DROPPED CALL WITH VERIZON IN 5 YEARS.

True, but you also had no options when it comes in the handset... except BB, they are all old school garbage....