Dead 10 Month Old Mac Pro

[dgm]

... Mac Pro apparently has a completely dead power supply after 10 months. This is quite alarming to me. I do use my mac pro for editing wedding and portrait photos and I'd maybe qualify it as getting moderate use. Certainly not heavy video editing or extensive gaming or anything like that. So, it concerns me that this $4000 "Workstation" has failed after 10 months. Of course, it's warranty work this time, but... still. The nearest Apple store is 2 hours drive away and I'm w/out my "workstation" for 7 days while they install a new power supply. Quite frustrating to say the least.

I am trying to be proactive and positive about the whole thing though and wondering if anyone might have ideas as to what might have caused this and how I might be proactive in preventing it from happening again?

Additionally, I haven't yet purchased AppleCare for this machine, but now assuming that I should. Opinions?

thank you!

[seadragon]

Well, you may have just had bad luck. My G5 iMac logic board fried and I had it replaced under warranty. Having a UPS is really all you can do as far as protection goes.

I'd never buy a Mac without Applecare. It's worth the extra few hundred bucks. They just don't build them like they did back in the early 90s which is when I believe they were at the pinnacle of build and component quality (think VX, LCIII etc.)

[dgm]

So, by having a UPS, are you thinking that the power coming out of my wall into my macpro's power supply is irregular or somehow damaging? I've considered this, but really don't have much knowledge on the issue.

[seadragon]

So, by having a UPS, are you thinking that the power coming out of my wall into my macpro's power supply is irregular or somehow damaging? I've considered this, but really don't have much knowledge on the issue.

What I meant was that using a UPS is always recommended to help protect the power supply. But if your Mac Pro is plugged directly into the wall outlet, then power fluctuations could be a culprit. When it comes to UPS units, there are different types that offer different levels of protection.

However, your power supply may have just been defective and went out. This unfortunately is the reality of mass produced electronics. If your machine is a production machine and you really can't afford any downtime, then having a spare power supply on hand is wise. We have a few X-Serves here at work and we have extra parts for them sitting in a box "just in case".

[dgm]

I agree... I'm fairly new to the mac world though and have lots of PC parts laying around. I wouldn't know where to begin or have the guts to start pulling the PS out of my 10 month old Mac Pro. :)

So, is what you're referring to also called, "power conditioning?" I'm becoming more interested in this as I've had another Power Supply (on and old PC) also fail using this same outlet on the wall. This was long ago. But, now it has me thinking.

Might you be able to recommend a couple places to start looking online to purchase some sort of power conditioner?

thanks for all your help!

[seadragon]

Well, one of the most common brands of UPS units is APC.

http://www.apc.com/

They make a whole range of units from small personal ones up to large server room units.

I've attached a white paper to this post from their site that explains the different types of UPS's.

The one I bought for my own Mac Pro is the BR1500LCD model. It was about $240 Cdn. and gives good basic protection.

[jessica.]

It is likely bad luck but you have 2 months left of your AC now, get it fixed and buy AC to extend that time an additional 2 years. I had a machine fail out of the box and while I was unaware that it was an issue (I am as stupid as I sound), I let it go for 8 months. It was later replaced with a new machine and apple care was purchased to ensure I get at least 3 years out of my machine.

[dgm]

Thanks.... good info.

[goodcow]

The nearest Apple store is 2 hours drive away and I'm w/out my "workstation" for 7 days while they install a new power supply. Quite frustrating to say the least.

Call AppleCare and have them do an on-site repair. You don't have to drag your machine in and they'll repair it on the spot.

[dgm]

Call AppleCare and have them do an on-site repair. You don't have to drag your machine in and they'll repair it on the spot.

Seriously? Even on the original 12 month warranty (I haven't purchased extended Apple Care yet).

[goodcow]

Seriously? Even on the original 12 month warranty (I haven't purchased extended Apple Care yet).

http://images.apple.com/legal/applecare/docs/AppleCare_Protect_Plan_NA_en.pdf

(ii) Onsite service is available for many desktop computers if the location of the Covered Equipment is within 50 miles/80 kilometers radius of an Apple authorized onsite service provider located in the United States or Canada. Apple will dispatch a service technician to the location of the Covered Equipment. Service will be performed at the location, or the service technician will transport the Covered Equipment to an Apple Authorized Service Provider or Apple repair service location for repair. If the Covered Equipment is repaired at an Apple Authorized Service Provider or Apple repair service location, Apple will arrange for transportation of the Covered Equipment to your location following service. If the service technician is not granted access to the Covered Equipment at the appointed time, any further onsite visits may be subject to an additional charge.

Since AppleCare just extends the standard warranty from one year to three (or optionally four or five for educational markets), there should be no problem having them come to you even if you haven't purchased AppleCare yet.

[emt377]

It should only take a day for an authorized repair shop to swap out the power supply. They're independent of Apple, compete with one another, and have an incentive to keep their customers happy. Nothing makes a customer as happy as getting a warranty repair done in a timely manner, especially if you explicitly schedule the repair in advance, but it can safely be assumed that a Mac Pro is used for work and is more or less indispensable. I had my favorite repair center swap out a Mac Pro logic board in one day, as a warranty repair to fix a dead port. (Probably was DOA, but I didn't notice until I plugged something into it.)

[dgm]

Well, the closest apple store is about 85 miles from me. The closest Authorized Service place is about 55 miles. However, the repair center is only open M-F and I needed to take mine in on Saturday. I will keep that info in mind for future though.

[nanofrog]

So, by having a UPS, are you thinking that the power coming out of my wall into my macpro's power supply is irregular or somehow damaging? I've considered this, but really don't have much knowledge on the issue.
Yes.

Wall power fluctuates. Most everyone is aware of the dangers of a surge (very high voltages, such as a lightning strike), but a low voltage situation also exists (called a brown out), and causes damage as well. It's far more common than a surge situation, and typically occurs multiple times a day, depending on where you are on the power grid. A UPS solves this issue, as the battery kicks in during a low voltage period.

[chrono1081]

+1 for a UPS. Essential IMO.

Unfortunately power supplies can go at any time. (On my desk is a dead power supply from a brand new HP workstation.) In most cases I've seen (which is many) its an external cause (power surge, etc) but it can be internal as well.

[GoKyu]

This is the only 2009 Mac Pro power supply (http://www.applecomponents.com/items/0000002601/661-5011_power-supply-980-w/?pn=1&cat=Service%20Parts:%20Power%20Supplies&per_page=30) I could find online, and it runs $350 (someone let me know if there's a more well-known site for parts...)

On the other hand, here's LA Computer Company's price for Mac Pro Applecare (http://www.lacomputercompany.com/cgi-bin/rpcart/index.cgi?command=dispitem&type=sku&sku=10124) (only $195)

Better deal for the Applecare, especially with the in-home service :)

[Erkinshadow]

I got a CyberPower Intelligent LCD Series GreenPower UPS about a year ago. it runs my gaming rig, 22 inch LG lcd and my mac mini with a 19 inch LG lcd for 23 min on battery. check it out http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102048

[tofagerl]

Do NOT switch out the PSU on your own. Firstly, you're letting Apple off the hook - they should have to pay for this! Secondly, you're actually getting close to voiding your own warranty - for something Apple is responsible for!

Nah, just go to the applestore on a saturday, bring the wife/girlfriend and take her to a restaurant or something. Make a trip out of it so that the Applestore visit isn't the whole reason for the long car ride ;) (And then do it all over again the following week I guess...)

[MikeDTyke]

Do NOT switch out the PSU on your own. Firstly, you're letting Apple off the hook - they should have to pay for this! Secondly, you're actually getting close to voiding your own warranty - for something Apple is responsible for!

Nah, just go to the applestore on a saturday, bring the wife/girlfriend and take her to a restaurant or something. Make a trip out of it so that the Applestore visit isn't the whole reason for the long car ride ;) (And then do it all over again the following week I guess...)

Phone in advance, Apple stores do not carry parts for Mac Pro's at least in my experience with a faulty graphics card and then motherboard.

On both occasions i had to wait for them to be ordered in.

[kbmb]

On the other hand, here's LA Computer Company's price for Mac Pro Applecare (http://www.lacomputercompany.com/cgi-bin/rpcart/index.cgi?command=dispitem&type=sku&sku=10124) (only $195)

Better deal for the Applecare, especially with the in-home service :)

Or try eBay:

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=mac+pro+applecare

That's where I've purchased 3 Applecare plans.

-Kevin

[handheldgames]

be careful of counterfeit plans on ebay. Have read of people buying them and them being invalidated when needing them...

Or try eBay:

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=mac+pro+applecare

That's where I've purchased 3 Applecare plans.

-Kevin

[kbmb]

be careful of counterfeit plans on ebay. Have read of people buying them and them being invalidated when needing them...

Agreed. Pay attention to the seller and ratings and make sure you get the sealed package.

-Kevin

[dgm]

Please excuse my ignorance on this topic, but I'm trying to learn.

That Cyberpower Intelligent UPS looks great and the price doesn't seem unreasonable. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102048

BUT...why not just go with something like this for 1/4 of the price? Am I missing something or is it just the 'battery' component that drives the price of the cyberpower unit up? http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=67

thanks!

[dwd3885]

http://images.apple.com/legal/applecare/docs/AppleCare_Protect_Plan_NA_en.pdf



Since AppleCare just extends the standard warranty from one year to three (or optionally four or five for educational markets), there should be no problem having them come to you even if you haven't purchased AppleCare yet.

If you read the text, you have to be within 50 miles of the nearest Apple Authorized Service Center for them to go on-site. But it's an option if that's the case for you.

[electroshock]

Please excuse my ignorance on this topic, but I'm trying to learn.

That Cyberpower Intelligent UPS looks great and the price doesn't seem unreasonable. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102048

BUT...why not just go with something like this for 1/4 of the price? Am I missing something or is it just the 'battery' component that drives the price of the cyberpower unit up? http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=67

The Cyberpower model you listed is a traditional UPS which includes a battery for backup power if wall power is lost. It also has more outlets (8) and has monitoring for health, as well as 1500VA capacity.

The APC model you listed aren't really UPSes; they just merely condition the incoming AC power from the wall to ensure it stays at a steady 120V with some protection against brownouts (where the line voltage drops from 120V +/- 0.1V), but offers no protection against where you lose wall power. The 1200VA model only has 4 outlets, too.

I can't speak as to your area, but whereever I live and work, power has been a steady 120V (plus or minus 0.1V) even when the grid is a little stressed on high demand days. But I could see it as being useful some places to have something conditioning the power because I once saw a buddy's UPS report crazy fluctuations between 114-117V AC when his utility company had a few key substations fail on hot days in the desert, and says this regularly occurs where he lives.

Getting a device that strictly conditions without providing uninterruptible power isn't generally as useful as having a true UPS, IMO. The true UPS allows one to cleanly shut down the computer without risk of damaging filesystems or losing data even when wall power goes out -- its true value, IMO. And to some extent, they can also condition the line and provide some surge suppression protection.

I'm hesitant to suggest counting on the average household UPS to provide true lightning protection when suddenly confronted by billions of joules of energy. Some components in UPSes are pretty cheaply made and low quality. Or over time, they may degrade providing less protection than expected. Then there's other things about how they're designed such as amount of time elapses before it stops the surge.

[nanofrog]

...I once saw a buddy's UPS report crazy fluctuations between 114-117V AC
This is common, if not a larger differential between the low and high values.

I'm hesitant to suggest counting on the average household UPS to provide true lightning protection when suddenly confronted by billions of joules of energy. Some components in UPSes are pretty cheaply made and low quality. Or over time, they may degrade providing less protection than expected. Then there's other things about how they're designed such as amount of time elapses before it stops the surge.
They use the same parts (& basic design) as surge suppressors for that function; MOV's (Metal Oxide Varisistor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varistor)). The overall amount of energy that can be handled should be listed in the specs.

If you're paranoid, you can take a decent surge suppressor and then plug in the UPS. ;) It could even increase the lifespan of the MOV's in the UPS, as the signal would hit the surge suppressor first. But MOV's can't help in the event of a sustained high voltage situation, and lightning strikes are rare, especially when compared to the occurance rate of brown-outs, where the UPS is what you need. :)

I look at it this way. Worst case, the UPS is far cheaper to replace than a system, especially if it's a workstation or server. :D

[dgm]

UPDATE: Apple Store has now had my Mac Pro for 14 DAYS!!!! They quoted me 5-7 days when I dropped it of, were 25 min late on my APPOINTMENT time and now 14 days into it, they are still telling me that it's on the bench and they'll call me when it's done, but have no way of predicting when it'll be ready. They've been giving me this exact line for 5 days now. I am beyond frustrated and seriously questioning my move from PC to Mac. Any advice on how I should proceed? This is ridiculous. This is a $4000 machine we're talking about here, not a POS. ...and I rely on it for my business.

[nanofrog]

UPDATE: Apple Store has now had my Mac Pro for 14 DAYS!!!! They quoted me 5-7 days when I dropped it of, were 25 min late on my APPOINTMENT time and now 14 days into it, they are still telling me that it's on the bench and they'll call me when it's done, but have no way of predicting when it'll be ready. They've been giving me this exact line for 5 days now. I am beyond frustrated and seriously questioning my move from PC to Mac. Any advice on how I should proceed? This is ridiculous. This is a $4000 machine we're talking about here, not a POS. ...and I rely on it for my business.
Perhaps you could call Apple, and ask to speak with others further up the chain, as they may be able to expidite the shipping of repair parts. They could even opt to send you a new machine, but I doubt it, as I assume this is the first time you've sent in the machine. But of utmost importance, be polite.

Beyond that, you'll end up waiting it out I think. :rolleyes: :(

You should go ahead and get the Apple Care, no matter what happens, as their repair costs are high. The parts are expensive, and many cost as much or more than the cost of the extention of coverage. Well worth doing it.

[Wotan31]

Well, one of the most common brands of UPS units is APC.
Yes, and APC is also one of the worst. They have abysmal surge ratings, and they set their battery float voltage too high, which kills the battery in about 3 years. Those batteries should last 6 or 7 years, but due to the too-high float, they die very soon. They do this deliberately, so they can sell more batteries. Also on some of the more common models, it costs just as much to buy a new UPS than it does to buy just the battery!! It's a complete scam. I would never buy an APC product.
Having a UPS is really all you can do as far as protection goes.
No! Having a UPS corrects over/under voltage situations by switching from mains power to battery + inverter power. That's all they do. Their surge protection is usually pretty terrible, and they don't do true line conditioning. If you want REAL surge protection, buy something like a Brick Wall (http://www.brickwall.com/) and put it inline before the UPS.

Also the inexpensive consumer UPS's do *NOT* perform true line conditioning. Anything in their defined "normal" voltage range of ~90v - 140v is passed through unaltered. Dirty noisy power that deviates from 60hz and contains lots of line noise passed through to your equipment so long as it falls within the defined "normal" voltage range. Only once it dips below the low threshold, or exceeds the high threshold does the battery and inverter kick in. If you want TRUE line conditioning, you need something that runs exclusively off of its own internal inverter, 100% of the time, and only uses the mains A/C for charging the battery. Those are the best kind of system, they generate their own 60hz sine wave, independent of the mains power. But those are also a lot more pricey.

If you want clean power, you need a line conditioner, like this (http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/product-series.cfm?txtSeriesID=326&EID=6). This will generate its own 60hz sine wave and voltage and give you very very clean power.

The absolute best setup is A/C Outlet -> Brick Wall -> UPS -> line conditioner -> your equipment. You can buy "all in one" surge/ups/conditioners but they are designed for commercial and medical use and cost as much as your whole computer.

[nanofrog]

Yes, and APC is also one of the worst. They have abysmal surge ratings, and they set their battery float voltage too high, which kills the battery in about 3 years. Those batteries should last 6 or 7 years, but due to the too-high float, they die very soon. They do this deliberately, so they can sell more batteries. Also on some of the more common models, it costs just as much to buy a new UPS than it does to buy just the battery!! It's a complete scam. I would never buy an APC product.
I've not had them last that long in more recent models (3 - 5 years is about it, not 6 -7). The batteries aren't that substantial anyways (i.e. cheaply made, so they're using smaller/thinner plates). But they can be had via 3rd party sources inexpensively, compared to a new unit (at least the models I've used).

No! Having a UPS corrects over/under voltage situations by switching from mains power to battery + inverter power. That's all they do. Their surge protection is usually pretty terrible, and they don't do true line conditioning. If you want REAL surge protection, buy something like a Brick Wall (http://www.brickwall.com/) and put it inline before the UPS.
Some are more than just a "switch type", but are by no means cheap. The version I'm reffering to are those that always run off the batteries + inverter (what I've always known as a "Full Time UPS").

The surge suppressors are lousy IMO on the consumer models, and is why adding a decent surge suppressor isn't a bad idea. Inexpensive products means there's corners cut somewhere... ;)

Also the inexpensive consumer UPS's do *NOT* perform true line conditioning. Anything in their defined "normal" voltage range of ~90v - 140v is passed through unaltered. Dirty noisy power that deviates from 60hz and contains lots of line noise passed through to your equipment so long as it falls within the defined "normal" voltage range. Only once it dips below the low threshold, or exceeds the high threshold does the battery and inverter kick in. If you want TRUE line conditioning, you need something that runs exclusively off of its own internal inverter, 100% of the time, and only uses the mains A/C for charging the battery. Those are the best kind of system, they generate their own 60hz sine wave, independent of the mains power. But those are also a lot more pricey.
Ah. We are on the same page as per the differences, but cost is always an issue.

At least the cheap ones are better than nothing at all in terms of brown-out protection. I've seen more damaged electronics from this by far compared to surges. The biggest surge (lightning strike) I recall, took out the FDA's network a few years ago in the S.E. US (toasted equipment <NIC's on boards, switches,...> in a couple of states).

You can buy "all in one" surge/ups/conditioners but they are designed for commercial and medical use and cost as much as your whole computer.
Definitely not most people's idea of "inexpensive". :p

[seadragon]

Well, I was talking about the average joe like me and having a UPS is a pretty normal thing to do to protect a setup at home.

Stating that APC is the worst is a rather blanket statement. They make a large range of units from cheap power bar types up to server room units. The BackUPS line is different form the SmartUPS line etc. We have a large APC Symmetra in our server room and it's been fine for years.

Like anything, you spend more $, you get better quality.

[dgm]

Thought I'd provide an update to this situation. After taking 14 days to get my power supply replaced at the apple store (nearly 2 hours drive away), the unit worked for about a week and then died again. An apple service man spent 2 days in a row at my house trying to fix it and couldn't. So, Apple sent me a new, updated version of the Mac Pro (faster processors, more apple RAM, Better Video Cards, bigger/faster HD). I just have to ship them my old unit now.

[iamcheerful]

Thought I'd provide an update to this situation. After taking 14 days to get my power supply replaced at the apple store (nearly 2 hours drive away), the unit worked for about a week and then died again. An apple service man spent 2 days in a row at my house trying to fix it and couldn't. So, Apple sent me a new, updated version of the Mac Pro (faster processors, more apple RAM, Better Video Cards, bigger/faster HD). I just have to ship them my old unit now.

Thanks for the update. That's really a wonderful update. So, have you decided to go with ACPP (Apple Care Protection Plan)?

[akadmon]

Stupid question: is the PSU on a Mac Pro considered user replaceable?

I've had Apple Care for almost 3 years now, and while I've never had to use it for repairs (knock knock), I've called Apple support many times after the first year and gotten excellent help. Truth be told, though, most of these calls were about issues not specific to the Mac Pro and I could have used Apple Care on my daughter's MBP to get help. I just bought a MBP for my other daughter, so I still have almost 3 more years of general Apple Care coming for help with the OS issues and such :)

Mac Pros are a lot more reliable than laptops (that is why Apple Care on a Mac Pro is less expensive than on a MBP, even though the latter may be half the price of the former). If you have other newer Macs or plan to buy a laptop for yourself or a family member, I would suggest taking the risk of not getting Apple Care for the Mac Pro. A lot of the repairs can be done by yourself, and with a community like Macrumors (and Apple's own user forums) helpful advice is never far away. And for everything else you can use the Apple Care on your other, more fragile computer(s).

[dgm]

Yes, I did buy Apple Care for the old one, which is being refunded now and I'll buy a new plan for the new Mac Pro.

I can see the point about getting the AC for the more delicate notebooks, but my Mac Pro is my primary workstation for my business. I simply cannot afford for it to be down any longer than necessary while I self-diagnose and self-repair. Those days are over for me. I think that ended when I moved from self-built PC's to the Mac Pro. Simply put, an 11 month old $4500 workstation should absolutely not require me to perform any repairs on it whatsoever. ...and considering that the power supply alone is at least as expensive as the AC plan... it just makes sense.

[akadmon]

Yes of course, you are right to buy Apple Care. You could easily lose in one day what it costs to pay for Apple Care. My MP is just another of my toys.