Steve Jobs Ranked 43rd on Forbes 400 List of Richest Americans

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/01/steve-jobs-ranked-43rd-on-forbes-400-list-of-richest-americans/)

In its annual list of wealthiest Americans known as the Forbes 400, Forbes magazine has ranked Apple CEO Steve Jobs in 43rd place (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/54/rich-list-09_Steve-Jobs_HEDB.html) with a net worth of approximately $5.1 billion. Despite a decline in net worth of approximately $600 million, Jobs moved up from last year's 61st spot to claim his highest ranking yet, topping his 49th place showing in 2007.

The report notes as Jobs' best investment his purchase of Pixar from George Lucas in 1986 for $10 million. With Disney's acquisition of Pixar in 2006, Jobs became the largest individual Disney stockholder with a stake currently worth $3.9 billion.

Jobs' $5.1 billion net worth marks a significant turnaround from just six months ago, when Jobs checked in as the 178th wealthiest person in the world (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/10/billionaires-2009-richest-people_Steven-Jobs_HEDB.html) with an estimated net worth of only $3.4 billion. Since that time, Disney's stock price has risen nearly 90% while Apple's has more than doubled, generating significant gains for Jobs.

Jobs has famously received only a $1 annual salary from Apple for over a decade, although he has received stock options and other benefits from the company, including a private jet for which he receives financial compensation when used for company business.

Despite a decline of $7 billion from last year's survey, Microsoft chairman Bill Gates remains at the top of the list (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/54/rich-list-09_William-Gates-III_BH69.html) for the 16th consecutive year with a net worth of approximately $50 billion.

Article Link: Steve Jobs Ranked 43rd on Forbes 400 List of Richest Americans (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/01/steve-jobs-ranked-43rd-on-forbes-400-list-of-richest-americans/)

[rgarjr]

SJ will soon surpass Gates..

[snverhallen]

Good for him.

[Doctor Q]

Since I can't make that much money, I made a graph instead.

[LanPhantom]

50 billion huh? And yet his company still continues to turn out some of the crappiest software available. M$ is the McDonalds of the computer world, with one exception, their stuff ain't that cheap.

LanPhantom

[derek1984]

I'll just take a million

[JackieTreehorn]

Apparently, there is a trade-off between financial wealth and OS usability. It's best SJ stays where he is. I'd rather not have him develop software like the one Rain Man Gates markets.

[Droid13]

ONLY $3.4 Billion? How does that make an ONLY?

Still, now that the company is making enough money to have enough stock options to make certain people really well off, maybe us users will start to see better value for money?

Or am I just being silly?

[cosmokanga2]

50 billion huh? And yet his company still continues to turn out some of the crappiest software available. M$ is the McDonalds of the computer world, with one exception, their stuff ain't that cheap.

LanPhantom

That made my day!

[Buzz Bumble]

50 billion huh? And yet his company still continues to turn out some of the crappiest software available. M$ is the McDonalds of the computer world, with one exception, their stuff ain't that cheap.

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

[sarahbau]

Geez. It's crazy to think that 1,000,000 people could divide Bill Gates's net worth and live rather well for a full year. Or, that it would take the average American over 1,000,000 years to earn what Bill Gates has (and that's just earning, not saving. Most of what most people make gets spent).

[garty]

A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money.

[jav6454]

Shocking.... in other news, Warren Buffet is 2nd place.

[GoodWatch]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

You are so right, the foundation of OS X is much more original.... ;)

[JangoFett124]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was.

Bill Gates is 100 times a better person that Steve Jobs. His charity work is immense and Steve Jobs has done little of value in comparison.

[sarahbau]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was.
While I'm no Microsoft fan, I wouldn't call Gates a nothing. He has personally given $35 billion to charity over 8 years. Jobs doesn't contribute much if anything.

[tjcampbell]

Thanks to macs being overpriced. I love them, but, yes, they are.

[Mintin8]

I think you guys have to think about all the money gates has put into charity. I'm talking about lots of money here.

When do you hear about Steve Jobs participating in charity work etc.

[akm3]

SJ will soon surpass Gates..

I am an Apple fanboy but this made me LOL. The only way that would be possible is if Gates kicked the bucket and his money went to the B&MGFoundation so it wasn't 'his' anymore.

[SolRayz]

50 billion huh? And yet his company still continues to turn out some of the crappiest software available. M$ is the McDonalds of the computer world, with one exception, their stuff ain't that cheap.

LanPhantom

Seeing Bill Gates off the charts makes me want to throw up. I think about him and what I'd like to do to him everyday at work in front of my windows xp sheitbox. I swear my work productivity is seriously hampered by this crap operating system.:mad:

Oh and good for SJ as he deserves every cent. :p

[akm3]

I think you guys have to think about all the money gates has put into charity. I'm talking about lots of money here.

When do you hear about Steve Jobs participating in charity work etc.

There are people who do charity work to do the charity work, and those who do the charity work to brag about how much they care. (And then there are people who say 'psshhh charity work? hell no')

Which one do you think Steve fits in? (I vote category 3)

[akm3]

ONLY $3.4 Billion? How does that make an ONLY?

Still, now that the company is making enough money to have enough stock options to make certain people really well off, maybe us users will start to see better value for money?

Or am I just being silly?

We see tremendous value for our money. Being premium priced is part of being a premium brand. You may or not may not believe this, but if Apple started matching every POS Dell prices, it would drive Apple's core fanbase away not increase it.

[TomxHow]

Good to hear.

[tjcampbell]

I think you guys have to think about all the money gates has put into charity. I'm talking about lots of money here.

When do you hear about Steve Jobs participating in charity work etc.

Bill Gates actually stepped down at Microsoft so he could focus on his charity, where as Steve is in some bomb shelter at infinite loop overseeing the mysterious tablet... I'm just saying...

[immortalix]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

How else are you supposed to get rich? I don't suppose being at the wrong place at the right time or being at the wrong place, right time or the wrong place, wrong time will get you rich. And who is suffering?

[alm99]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

Look where that got him....I would do the same to be in his position.

[Eminemdrdre00]

Isnt this story a great example of why MacRumors has a "Page 2" ???

[ArcaneDevice]

How else are you supposed to get rich? I don't suppose being at the wrong place at the right time or being at the wrong place, right time or the wrong place, wrong time will get you rich. And who is suffering?

Now that was a post made at the right time in the right place.

Just like the iPod was the right time at the right place even though it wasn't the first MP3 player, was massively overpriced and looked like a brick.

[fluidedge]

geeze even tablet rumors are more interesting than this "news"

[ilfn143]

Since I can't make that much money, I made a graph instead.

ahh i didn't even made a pixel on that graph

[BaldiMac]

Jobs doesn't contribute much if anything.

How do you know?

[yanquis]

we need more billionaires in the russian mold. those guys know how to enjoy their money instead of just sitting on it. if i had 40 billion dollars i sure as hell wouldnt be tooling around omaha in a freaking ford focus.

[BaldiMac]

Bill Gates is 100 times a better person that Steve Jobs. His charity work is immense and Steve Jobs has done little of value in comparison.

Do you actually judge a person by how much he contributes to charity? Completely ignoring the fact that Gates obtained much of that money through illegal business practices. And the fact that the many many billions that he has contributed does not impact his quality of life in the slightest way.

[itsmenyc]

50 billion huh? And yet his company still continues to turn out some of the crappiest software available. M$ is the McDonalds of the computer world, with one exception, their stuff ain't that cheap.

LanPhantom

Unfortunately it means crime DOES pay...

[LagunaSol]

Bill Gates is 100 times a better person that Steve Jobs. His charity work is immense and Steve Jobs has done little of value in comparison.

I'm so tired of hearing this ridiculous tripe.

1) We have no idea what Jobs contributes to - we haven't seen his tax return.

2) Even after Gates' donations, he still has more money than Jobs. I fail to see why a guy who lives in a $150 million house deserves sainthood. I give a bigger percentage of my income in charitable donations every year than Gates does, and I end up with far less to live on. Somebody give me a freakin' Medal of Honor please! :rolleyes:

3) Why don't the Apple haters rage against others' lack of high-profile charity work? Steve Ballmer and Michael Dell are both ahead of Jobs in the race to riches, yet I don't ever hear anyone griping about that. Funny how that works.

[RazHyena]

geeze even tablet rumors are more interesting than this "news"

This.

Let's see some more fake futuristic iMac renderings at least. ;) I don't care how rich the richest are.

While I'm no Microsoft fan, I wouldn't call Gates a nothing. He has personally given $35 billion to charity over 8 years. Jobs doesn't contribute much if anything.

Only thing that comes to mind is Apple's "Green" campaigns which don't amount to anything but hype. I'm really not aware of any charity work on Apple's part. :confused:

[xIGmanIx]

only on macrumors could a post that should be on page 2 about the Apple CEO turn into a slam on the former CEO of microsoft, classic.

Do you actually judge a person by how much he contributes to charity? Completely ignoring the fact that Gates obtained much of that money through illegal business practices. And the fact that the many many billions that he has contributed does not impact his quality of life in the slightest way.

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

Seeing Bill Gates off the charts makes me want to throw up. I think about him and what I'd like to do to him everyday at work in front of my windows xp sheitbox. I swear my work productivity is seriously hampered by this crap operating system.:mad:

Oh and good for SJ as he deserves every cent. :p

Bill Gates actually stepped down at Microsoft so he could focus on his charity, where as Steve is in some bomb shelter at infinite loop overseeing the mysterious tablet... I'm just saying...

[Wotan31]

Poor poor Steve. 43rd on the list and only $1 salary. I almost feel sorry for the guy.

[LagunaSol]

That the bumbling buffoon Steve Ballmer is worth $13 billion is quite possibly fate's cruelest joke on mankind in the entire history of fate, cruel jokes, and mankind.

[JangoFett124]

Do you actually judge a person by how much he contributes to charity? Completely ignoring the fact that Gates obtained much of that money through illegal business practices. And the fact that the many many billions that he has contributed does not impact his quality of life in the slightest way.

Only at a place like this would this much philanthropic work be put down. He actively runs his own charity that gives tons of money and does work besides money. And it is well known that Steve Jobs isn't a nice person - his products are great, but as a human being he is known to be a dick.

[trellus]

...this stuff tickles the bejesus outta me the way that people have become all heated about the relative wealth of Gates vs Jobs, and predictably, the anti-Microsoft poopitude has come out afresh.

I think Gates' charity contributions are very laudable, and he has had done a lot of good work with his wealth. Maybe Jobs doesn't have a big foundation, but who knows what he does with his money? Besides, if his contribution is "limited" to steering Apple and giving us a wonderful OS and nice computers and the wondrous domination of MP3 players (that has spawned bazillions of accessories all "made for iPod") and now revolutionized the smartphone sector... well then, I think he's done well. =]

By the way, that graph was great. I knew Bloomberg was a billionaire, but I didn't realize he was really only behind Gates, Buffet, Ellison (they tend to crowd the top spots) and the Wal-Mart moguls.

[itsmenyc]

Bill Gates is 100 times a better person that Steve Jobs. His charity work is immense and Steve Jobs has done little of value in comparison.

Bill Gates is a thief and a liar. Taking money he stole and giving it to other people does not make him a better person.

Steve Jobs has made millions of peoples's lives easier while Bill Gates is responsible for trillions of dollars of lost productivity in the business world.

Steve Jobs has made millions of people happy, while Bill Gates has driven more people to nervous breakdowns, alcoholism, drug addiction and suicide than any other single human being.

[xIGmanIx]

so one could say that your not exceeding his net worth makes you the number 1 on that list you call out. Enough with this CEO is this and that, reality is his on there and your not. No matter how he got there, he is, get over it.

That the bumbling buffoon Steve Ballmer is worth $13 billion is quite possibly fate's cruelest joke on mankind in the entire history of fate, cruel jokes, and mankind.

[JangoFett124]

Bill Gates is a thief and a liar. Taking money he stole and giving it to other people does not make him a better person.

Steve Jobs has made millions of peoples's lives easier while Bill Gates is responsible for trillions of dollars of lost productivity in the business world.

Steve Jobs has made millions of people happy, while Bill Gates has driven more people to nervous breakdowns, alcoholism, drug addiction and suicide than any other single human being.

This is the most fanboy thing I have ever heard. Is this post a joke?

[Hellium]

people calling Bill Gates a liar & thief don't understand how business world works period

[BaldiMac]

Actually, I bet his quality of life is eons ahead of yours. When you donate as much as Bill Gates does, of course you're going to be seen in a good light. Maybe you're the type of person who regrets giving away anything and I'm sorry for you. I for one feel great when I donate my belongings or time to benefit someone who appreciates it.

I'm not sure you understood what I wrote. I never said his quality of life was poor. In fact, I implied exactly the opposite. I have no regrets about my own charity work and contributions. I was just pointing out that donating 35 billion isn't much of a sacrifice when you have 50 billion left over.

[Mousse]

While I'm no Microsoft fan, I wouldn't call Gates a nothing. He has personally given $35 billion to charity over 8 years.

Very true. Billy's toughest decision is whom to give his money too. The man receives thousands of letters day from people asking for money. How many are legit, how many are scams? He want's to help those in need, but doesn't want to be scammed.

Anyhow, he's only down 7 billion from last year. I guess he's not giving it away fast enough.:p

[JangoFett124]

I'm not sure you understood what I wrote. I never said his quality of life was poor. In fact, I implied exactly the opposite. I have no regrets about my own charity work and contributions. I was just pointing out that donating 35 billion isn't much of a sacrifice when you have 50 billion left over.

I refuse to let you downplay that fact that this man has donated more than a quarter of his money to charity, and more than writing a check he actively does work for the charity.

[Counterfit]

For those saying "OMG STEVE GIVES NOTHING TO CHARITY!!111", maybe something like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayrton_Senna#Personal_life) will make you think a bit more:
After Senna's death it was discovered that he had donated millions of dollars of his personal fortune (estimated at $400 million at the time of his death) to children's charities, a fact that during his life he had kept secret.

[organerito]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

You should show some respect for someone who has achieved what many of us will never able to do. Money is not everything in live, but it helps. He may be an evil business man, but he is just as generous.

[Jimmy James]

Now that was a post made at the right time in the right place.

Just like the iPod was the right time at the right place even though it wasn't the first MP3 player, was massively overpriced and looked like a brick.

Not to mention inferior sound quality that is frowned upon by audiophiles.

[BaldiMac]

Only at a place like this would this much philanthropic work be put down. He actively runs his own charity that gives tons of money and does work besides money.

Stop putting words in my mouth. The work of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is fantastic. I just don't think it speaks to the quality of Bill Gates's character in comparison to others.

And it is well known that Steve Jobs isn't a nice person - his products are great, but as a human being he is known to be a dick.

He may very well be a horrible person. I don't know. The only evidence we have is from journalists that he refuses to be interviewed by, and people he has fired. With a smattering of anecdotes from other colleagues in a business setting. I wouldn't judge a person's character solely by their business reputation.

[fluidedge]

geeze even tablet rumors are more interesting than this "news"

[Jimmy James]

That the bumbling buffoon Steve Ballmer is worth $13 billion is quite possibly fate's cruelest joke on mankind in the entire history of fate, cruel jokes, and mankind.

The wrong brain in the right place at the right time.

[Ruahrc]

I'm so tired of hearing this ridiculous tripe.

Me too. Except I'm talking about the fanboy comments made here.

One of the best things about being a Mac user is its dedicated community.

Unfortunately far more often, one of the worst things about being a Mac user is its community.

Ruahrc

[willwc]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7C144 Safari/528.16)

50 billion huh? And yet his company still continues to turn out some of the crappiest software available. M$ is the McDonalds of the computer world, with one exception, their stuff ain't that cheap.

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

Still, it was a bad management decision that paved the way for apple to do its thing. In a parallel reality, the iPhone could have a xerox logo on the back.

[DMann]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(You do mean the Quick and Dirty Operating System pawned, hacked and hashed together to deliver a promised OS to IBM, one which BG claimed he had, and actually didn't? One of the greatest scams in history.

That the bumbling buffoon Steve Ballmer is worth $13 billion is quite possibly fate's cruelest joke on mankind in the entire history of fate, cruel jokes, and mankind.Just goes to show, you can't make a racehorse out of a jackass, no matter how much you throw at it.

[Scooterman1]

Again, even though this post is about Jobs worth, it never fails for the members to bash Gates and Microsoft in some way.

What I can't understand is the logic. I DO NOT love MS, but let's face it. Where is your logic?
MS runs on virtually every PC out there.
Apple can only get theirs to run on the very few that they manufacture. They can't even get the iPhone to run flawlessly. I love my iPhone, but people complain about that also. Look at the complaints against 3.1.

I'm not a Rocket Scientist, but come on..... get a clue..

[gnasher729]

I refuse to let you downplay that fact that this man has donated more than a quarter of his money to charity, and more than writing a check he actively does work for the charity.

Actually, not his money, but the money of all those people who haven't figured out that a computer doesn't need to run Windows.

[DMann]

so one could say that your not exceeding his net worth makes you the number 1 on that list you call out. Enough with this CEO is this and that, reality is his on there and your not. No matter how he got there, he is, get over it. "No matter how he got there..." you say?

The sleazy vendor lock-in, underhanded OEM deals, and unethical monopolistic, predatory practices which got him where "he is" would hardly be considered admirable by most. Before you make

assumptions about not having met him, I actually had, in Seattle. Furthermore, my post pertains directly to those within this thread. What, may I ask, specifically, do your's have to do with

this thread?

[twoodcc]

good for him! but i thought at one point he was worth $8 billion? guess i was wrong

[Fluffy Bunny]

Good for Jobs! $5B can buy a lot of livers.

[lixuelai]

If Sam Walton was still alive he would be way at the head of the list. He split his money like 6 ways and they are all within top 10.

[mac*jedi*g]

45 billion to go to dethrone Mr. Gates. :) But I don't think it will take that long, now that the mainstream business community is pondering some use for Macs at the office. Some are seeing that they are not the "toys" they thought they were. :cool: (dammit...if I have to reboot my work PC at home one more f....time because of a network issues...):mad:

[FoxyKaye]

Since I can't make that much money, I made a graph instead.

Dr. Q, you forgot the bar on the graph that's about a pixel wide, which represents the rest of us. :D

[SmugMac]

Poor poor Steve. 43rd on the list and only $1 salary. I almost feel sorry for the guy.

:D Yeah. Poor Steve. Even poorer still, Gates. Bill could really use his money more effectively, for instance he could pay off my $100,000 Mortgage. That would make me happy for life!

[MattInOz]

While I'm no Microsoft fan, I wouldn't call Gates a nothing. He has personally given $35 billion to charity over 8 years. Jobs doesn't contribute much if anything.

Not to knock the brilliant work they do...
You Do realise that the "Gates Foundation" was established by Bill Gates 1, and added to by 2 and 3. The fund is so massive that the $35B you speak of is mostly interest on the fund.

[thecartoonguy]

Bill Gates is 100 times a better person that Steve Jobs. His charity work is immense and Steve Jobs has done little of value in comparison.
You forgot one tiny little fact. He did this AFTER he left the company. Jobs does his charity but he does not avertise it. Once Job leaves Apple then you can make that judgement.

[thecartoonguy]

Good for Jobs! $5B can buy a lot of livers.
That was not even close to being funny.

[RobBookPro]

you people need to get your priorities in order.

[kdarling]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves.

Of course, that's not true at all.

Gates is a programmer, infamous for reading hundreds of pages of technical specs overnight in order to quiz his managers on their decisions.

Jobs is not an engineer at all, but an excellent salesman and product picker who has always made a living off the inspiration and work of others.

Gates is too much a geek entwined in tech details without seeing the user, while Jobs is too much someone who looks at his customers as sheep.

They're both younger than me, and lucked out by missing the draft, so I get to pick at 'em. (I liked Gary Kildall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kildall)a million times better than either. He was a decent, smart man, who should've won over them all.)

[zoozx]

Jobs and Gates, 2 guys that just as easily could be working selling insurance if not for some timely luck.

[organerito]

I think Jobs and Gates have done very well with their lives. It is narrow-minded to insult one or the other just because you don't like products of their companies. It doesn't matter if they sell cow crap. They have done what many people can't.

[Cask]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

Comments like this give Apple fans bad reputation.

[Master Chief]

Since I can't make that much money, I made a graph instead.
Great graph but not the right one since I'm not in it. Maybe next year (not).

And now we can all sleep well. Knowing that "our" Steve is doing great. Financially at least. No more insomnia...

[jrj073000]

He definitely deserves it (but I guess Woz deserves a big chunk of the credit, too). Apple has come so far since it's start.

Apple 1984:
http://adwido.com/view_content?vkey=2f7f7c328eeb8af3b1df21fdf2b00e88

[McBeats]

okay... hes rich enough to repair my macbook pro hahaha

[WoFat]

All that money and he still can't buy a dinosaur.

(Hat tip to Homer Simpson)

[kdarling]

Apple 1984:
http://adwido.com/view_content?vkey=2f7f7c328eeb8af3b1df21fdf2b00e88

Recent DoubleTwist ad takeoff:

http://gizmodo.com/5370473/steve-jobs-gets-a-dose-of-his-own-medicine

[Bubba Satori]

Cool, a thread about plutocrats.

[ast03]

wow, no one person needs billions of $.. government should take their money and spread it.. wtf would someone do with $50 billion???

[akm3]

Not to knock the brilliant work they do...
You Do realise that the "Gates Foundation" was established by Bill Gates 1, and added to by 2 and 3. The fund is so massive that the $35B you speak of is mostly interest on the fund.

Version three is always the good one with MSFT

[PolySciSurfer]

Seeing Bill Gates off the charts makes me want to throw up. I think about him and what I'd like to do to him everyday at work in front of my windows xp sheitbox. I swear my work productivity is seriously hampered by this crap operating system.:mad:

Oh and good for SJ as he deserves every cent. :p

Nobody, and I mean nobody... DESERVES 5.1 billion dollars. Nobody deserves that period, ever. It's called excess.

[173080]

Why would anyone rate this a negative? :confused:

[wackymacky]

The list is inacurate; they left my name out.

[thermodynamic]

Bill Gates is 100 times a better person that Steve Jobs. His charity work is immense and Steve Jobs has done little of value in comparison.

A tax haven foundation, and no doubt there are more "pragmatic" reasons than just charity. Like others said, Microsoft's history is REPLETE with predatory incidents. Why would Mr. Gates change now?

[thermodynamic]

i love the fanboys and their defensiveness. too bad SJ, BG, or anyone else on this list for that matter doesn't give a sh1+ about ANY of us.

And yet some people think BG is some sort of philanthropic saint, if he doesn't care about people? (Didn't he just apply for a patent on technology that might calm down hurricane conditions? Yup, it's about humanity and NOTHING to do with waiting for someone to do the real work and then scream "I own the patent, give me the money! Me me me me me!!!")

[cloudblood84]

A tax haven foundation, and no doubt there are more "pragmatic" reasons than just charity. Like others said, Microsoft's history is REPLETE with predatory incidents. Why would Mr. Gates change now?

it really doesn't matter his 'reasoning' for doing it.

his money is helping ALOT as far as disease prevention in Africa, etc.

If they are providing mosquito nets, cheap HIV medication, and saving/prolonging people's lives it doesn't matter.

[cloudblood84]

you can be a fanboy all you want, but if the tables were turned and it were SJ, you'd defend him till the end of the world. you people are idiots.

[huntercr]

SJ will soon surpass Gates..

How do you figure? I love SJ and all, but over the next 10 years

if Steve Jobs gets an *annual* return ( nigh impossible ) on his entire net worth of 25% he still would only have $47B.

If Bill gates only got 2% annual return he would end up with $60B in the same period.

/compound interest is a b*tch.

[MegaSignal]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

I Vote your post as 'Best Post Of The Day'...

Yeah, and I think that DOS was called 'CP/M' just prior to its "purchase"...

Google the details. Horrible. Gary Kildall. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kildall)

Sometimes this very fact makes me lean toward Apple products (or away from Microsoft) more then anything else with regard to my home computing environment. I'm hardly a fanboy.

Makes me want to spit tacks.

[RebootD]

I have a hard time imagining banking a million dollars let alone 50 BILLION!?! I mean.. donate 49 and keep 1 one for yourself man, you will be more than happy! :D (I will be awaiting a check in the mail)

PS. People who say SJ 'deserves' billions of dollars or that you 'love him' scare me more than than the thought of these people controlling enough cash to pay unemployment for most Americans who lost jobs this year!

[RebootD]

Really.. Gates and Jobs are both screwed businessmen with a killer instinct holding no remorse for anyone who gets caught in their wake. The happy "One more thing" Jobs isn't the same guy who runs that company.

[Rocketman]

I think you guys have to think about all the money gates has put into charity. I'm talking about lots of money here.

When do you hear about Steve Jobs participating in charity work etc.

Both Gates and Buffet have taken advantage of tax rules to form Foundations to which they contribute money and deduct from tax liability. It is a tax dodge first and foremost, and charity second.

If you are a libertarian, you are in favor of the richest billionaires dodging a 40% tax hit on the already thrice taxed cash. If you are a bleeding heart liberal you feel the rich are getting richer on the backs of the poor, so tax them hard. If you are a politically connected democrat like Gates and Buffet, you get the tax break without getting your balls busted on TV.

Good for them.

I hope what they do with their foundations are effective.

Rocketman

[JangoFett124]

Really.. Gates and Jobs are both screwed businessmen with a killer instinct holding no remorse for anyone who gets caught in their wake. The happy "One more thing" Jobs isn't the same guy who runs that company.

What I was referring to was the fact that some people are trying to put Gate's charity work in such a bad light. Despicable.

And of course they are taking advantage of every tax rule they can. Nothing wrong, or illegal, with that whatsoever.

On this forum, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

[DMann]

I Vote your post as 'Best Post Of The Day'...

Yeah, and I think that DOS was called 'CP/M' just prior to its "purchase"...

Google the details. Horrible. Gary Kildall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kildall)

Sometimes this very fact makes me lean toward Apple products (or away from Microsoft) more then anything else. I'm hardly a fanboy.

Makes me want to spit tacks.Couldn't agree more.

Gary Kildall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kildall) got royally screwed as a result of these underhanded and unscrupulous acts of sleazery - and so the predatory ball got rolling in Redmond.

[japanime]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was.

If true, what does that make you?

[LEStudios]

50 billion huh? And yet his company still continues to turn out some of the crappiest software available. M$ is the McDonalds of the computer world, with one exception, their stuff ain't that cheap.

LanPhantom

Yeah imagine McDonalds charging the same price what Microsoft is charging. $200 for a meal plus $500 to supersize to Ultimate. :D

[MegaSignal]

I think the mistake here is somehow equating net worth with success and influence.

Jobs and Gates are businessmen; their respective companies, operating systems, and net worth are what they are due to myriad circumstances; neither OS is going anywhere real soon, and their respective companies will strive on long afterwards.

However, it wouldn't surprise me, 30 or 40 years from now, (30,000 or 40,000 'computer years') that Steve Jobs will be featured prominently in many history books under the headings of 'Innovation' and 'User Interface'.

[Chupa Chupa]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

You make it sound like Bill Gates was walking down the street one day an a ginormous $1 Billion Dollar Bill dropped on his head. C'mon let's be fair. I don't like Windows for the same reason most Mac users don't but lets give credit where it's due. Love him or hate him, Bill Gates turning Microsoft into the Goliath it is was not due to luck.

And before we throw stones lets not forget how Apple (SJ) "stole" the whole GUI and mouse concept from Xerox PARC. Oh, and the guys Gates "stole" DOS from was IBM. Yeah, I know, Bill shouldn't have picked on someone bigger than him.

[MattInOz]

These numbers are always so large they are meaningless. It's no measure of the person just the business entity that holds their name.

What I'd like to really see is Annualized Return on Investment.
Take their net wealth at say 18 and now what is the average growth in their stock. That would be a real measure of smarts.

[AidenShaw]

However, it wouldn't surprise me, 30 or 40 years from now, (30,000 or 40,000 'computer years') that Steve Jobs will be featured prominently in many history books under the headings of 'Innovation' and 'User Interface'.

It would surprise me.

I'd expect to see Jonathan Ive and Jeff Han featured under "innovation", and Steve Jobs under "egomaniacal bastards".

[Not Steve Jobs]

Woz should get a cut.

[MattInOz]

Version three is always the good one with MSFT


So is Windows7 v2 or v3 of Longhornish OS?

[MegaSignal]

It would surprise me.

I'd expect to see Jonathan Ive and Jeff Han featured under "innovation", and Steve Jobs under "egomaniacal bastards".

OK - you've got a point there!

[andy721]

Who's the other 42? Corrupt CEO's working with the slimy CIA's? I am hating the world even more as I live/die.

[deconstruct60]

How do you figure? I love SJ and all, but over the next 10 years


I don't think the commenter is taking it into account but what you are outlooking is that Gates is transferring many billions per year over to the Gates Foundation. ( just as Buffet is also). Kind of like an ultra-mega-super-duper reverse mortgage. By the time Gates dies he should down to a "few" billion. (if he lives a average lifetime. )

His Foundation can only choke down so much money at a time since his wealthy locked up in a highly skewed portfolio ( vast majority of that is microsoft stock/options/etc. ) Gates and Buffet are not going to leave the bulk of their wealth to their heirs. I don't think their heirs are every going to be on public assistance but they are likely not going to join the Walton heirs on that wealthiest list after those two pass on.

Given Jobs relative health problems he has a higher likelihood of dying sooner than Bufffet or Gates. However, he seems to be sitting on all of his money. Once get into the double digit billions going to take years to give it away in a non disruptive fashion when it is invested in a skewed portfolio.

With Jobs it may as much be about control. Being Disney's largest stockholder allows him to come in and kick execs in the shins if he really thinks they are out of line. Likewise. remember Jobs was kicked out of Apple previously. With substantive amounts of leverage in company can push back (although hand picking your board helps too. ) or at least have the kernel of the amount needed to start a proxy battle.














P.S. There was another post that Gates only recently started giving his money away since dropping CEO (he is still Chairman ) . That's isn't true. Again even transfering at 3-5 billion a year will take a while for Gates to push the bulk of his money into the foundation. He has been at it for a while. When Buffet decided to do the same thing into the same foundation .... it is an even bigger problem to responsibly (tackle significant, systemic, problems ) hand the money out.

[AidenShaw]

So is Windows7 v2 or v3 of Longhornish OS?

It's not "v3", it's "sp3"... ;)

Seriously though, the "Microsoft gets it right on v3" is mostly relevant for new technologies. Windows 7 is not a new technology - it's an update to Vista/XP/Win2000/WinNT4/WindNT3.51/WinNT3.1 that's too big for a service pack.

You won't be laughing by the end of November when the marketshare indicators show that Windows 7 has more users than all versions of Apple OS combined.

But then, the "failed" Vista has more than three times the number of users of Apple OS....

[Quillz]

Couldn't agree more.

Gary Kildall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kildall) got royally screwed as a result of these underhanded and unscrupulous acts of sleazery - and so the predatory ball got rolling in Redmond.
I assume you do know that IBM actually went to Intergalactic Digital Research for their operating system needs, and after they were snubbed by the Kildalls, they then went to Microsoft, right?

Microsoft actually had nothing to do with the demise of IDR. In the early 80s when IBM was working on the PC, they wanted to get the total package (language+operating system) from Microsoft, but they soon found Microsoft only did languages. Kildall had the opportunity to provide IBM with CP/M, but there was so much legal litigation that IBM killed off the deal.

MS-DOS was actually based on QDOS, an OS written by Tim Patterson of Seattle Computer Products. It was very similar to CP/M, but not 100% identical.

[cumanzor]

50 billion huh? And yet his company still continues to turn out some of the crappiest software available. M$ is the McDonalds of the computer world, with one exception, their stuff ain't that cheap.

LanPhantom

I lol'd.

Microsoft Office, Microsoft Exchange Server, Live Communication Server, Windows Seven, Sharepoint server, Silverlight, Visual Studio, Rise of Empires, Rise of Nations and MS Flight Simulator would like to have a word with you. :rolleyes:

Hating ms is the cool and hip thing among apple users. go ahead, carry on, just don't talk things you have no idea about.

Also, what does this topic has to do with Microsoft or Bill Gates?

[Rot'nApple]

I'll just take a million

Now that's a stimulus package!

Really if Bill Gates wanted to really enhance the lives of his fellow countrymen, the man who gave us the "BSOD" and other computing aggravations should make restitution by giving every American one million dollars. There's what 308,000,000.00 people in the US currently, so that will still leave him a very wealthy man. :D

[AidenShaw]

Microsoft Office, Microsoft Exchange Server, Live Communication Server, Windows Seven, Sharepoint server, Silverlight, Visual Studio, Rise of Empires, Rise of Nations and MS Flight Simulator would like to have a word with you. :rolleyes:

I could add those Microsoft mouses and keyboards that are attached to so many Apples - but the OP did say "software".

And you didn't mention Windows Server 200x xx - another superb product.

[Quillz]

Really if Bill Gates wanted to really enhance the lives of his fellow countrymen, the man who gave us the "BSOD" and other computing aggravations should make restitution by giving every American one million dollars. There's what 308,000,000.00 people in the US currently, so that will still leave him a very wealthy man. :D

If you knew anything, you'd know that the BSOD, though annoying, is actually very useful because it gives you all the diagnostics you need to fix the problem. Unlike Mac OS X's pretty kernel panics, which tell you nothing.

[Quillz]

I could add those Microsoft mouses and keyboards that are attached to so many Apples - but the OP did say "software".

And you didn't mention Windows Server 200x xx - another superb product.
Did you forget where you are? Microsoft is an evil corporation on this board, and everything they do is evil and horrible. Bill Gates is the anti-Christ.

Remember: Here, if Microsoft does it, it's bad. If Apple does it, it's the most wonderful thing to ever happen to the universe.

[sushi]

Good for those who made the list.

SJ definitely moved up a bit from 178 to 43.

BG in the top spot is no surprise. Number 2, WB is interesting since he made his wealth through investing and AFAIK, has invested in non-tech stocks. This may have changed in the past few years as I haven't followed him that closely.

The Walton clan (Wal-Mart) is also interesting:
- 21,500 --> Christy Walton & Family
- 19,600 --> Jim Walton
- 19,300 --> Alice Walton
- 19,000 --> S. Robson Walton
- 2,900 --> Ann Walton Kroenke
- 2,600 --> Nancy Walton Laurie

Total for the Walton family --> 84.9 Billion. Not bad at all. :)

[cumanzor]

Good for those who made the list.

SJ definitely moved up a bit from 178 to 43.

BG in the top spot is no surprise. Number 2, WB is interesting since he made his wealth through investing and AFAIK, has invested in non-tech stocks. This may have changed in the past few years as I haven't followed him that closely.

The Walton clan (Wal-Mart) is also interesting:
- 21,500 --> Christy Walton & Family
- 19,600 --> Jim Walton
- 19,300 --> Alice Walton
- 19,000 --> S. Robson Walton
- 2,900 --> Ann Walton Kroenke
- 2,600 --> Nancy Walton Laurie

Total for the Walton family --> 84.9 Billion. Not bad at all. :)

So, is it even remotely possible to marry a Walton?

[DisMyMac]

we need more billionaires in the russian mold. those guys know how to enjoy their money instead of just sitting on it.

Russia is home to 32 billionaires, March 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_billionaires_by_net_worth)

I can just imagine what connections some of them have in crime and government. Their lives are probably like a bad movie and worse.

if i had 40 billion dollars i sure as hell wouldnt be tooling around omaha in a freaking ford focus.

Maybe not a Focus, but there's much to be said for keeping a low profile. Many armored cars are given a cheap shell, like that of a Focus, to blend in with us stinking, unworthy common people on public roads.

[sushi]

So, is it even remotely possible to marry a Walton?
Probably a granddaughter at the sub-billion level. :p :D

[CQd44]

Geeze, all the butt hurt around here about Bill Gates is astonishing. Did he personally kill all of your pets or something?

[deconstruct60]

Kildall had the opportunity to provide IBM with CP/M, but there was so much legal litigation that IBM killed off the deal.


Not really....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kildall#IBM_dealings

I boils down to MS was willing to let IBM push them around because they were gambling that clones would show up and then they would get their shot at less crappy deals. They did and won big.

At the time IDR was the big player in the OS market. Even so, they were almost in IBM's roundoff error in terms in revenue. Signing a lopside NDA (we get to take any of your info, but you get none of ours), was a leap they just didn't take. [ If there were cell phones and secure web confernecing around back then they might have had less of a disconnect. ] After IBM going toe-to-toe with the US Govt for extended period of time can let slide on not going to court (again these days they just would have sued IBM and MS on the clone they had.). However, the ball breaker was $40 vs. $240 ... which one would you buy?? Shades of Snow Leoopard pricing versus Ultra-super-duper Windows 7 ...... without all of the legacy application leverage that Windows has.

[DMann]

I assume you do know that IBM actually went to Intergalactic Digital Research for their operating system needs, and after they were snubbed by the Kildalls, they then went to Microsoft, right?

Microsoft actually had nothing to do with the demise of IDR. In the early 80s when IBM was working on the PC, they wanted to get the total package (language+operating system) from Microsoft, but they soon found Microsoft only did languages. Kildall had the opportunity to provide IBM with CP/M, but there was so much legal litigation that IBM killed off the deal.

MS-DOS was actually based on QDOS, an OS written by Tim Patterson of Seattle Computer Products. It was very similar to CP/M, but not 100% identical.No, not 100% identical, but close enough. Patterson's Quick and Dirty Operating System was just that, a hacked and hashed together hodgepodge originally for SCP's Intel 8086-based computer kit. FYI, Seattle Computer Products later sued Microsoft for concealing its relationship with IBM, in order to purchase the OS cheaply, for which SCP received a 1 million dollar settlement.

Actually, Bill Gates never once claimed to have any kind of operating system. IBM mistakenly believed that Microsoft had both languages and an operating system, but Microsoft was very clear they only did languages. It was only when Gary Kildall's company dropped the opportunity to work with IBM that Microsoft bought QDOS from Seattle Computer Products and reworked into the first version of MS-DOS.
- which was undeniably a CP/M clone. When Kildall threatened to sue IBM, IBM responded with a proposal to offer CP/M-86 as an option for the PC in return for a release of liability, which Kildall mistakenly accepted. However, when the IBM PC was introduced, IBM sold its OS as an unbundled, but necessary option. One of the OS options was PC-DOS, priced at $40. CP/M-86 shipped a few months later, priced at $240, and sold poorly against PC-DOS. One can only wonder why.

[jlseattle]

Geeze, all the butt hurt around here about Bill Gates is astonishing. Did he personally kill all of your pets or something?

People don't appreciate what Microsoft has done for the business world. I use Microsft windows in my day job and macs at home. I don't love my Windows PC but I don't have as much problems as I used too. I can appreciate what Bill Gates did for the PC world. It wasn't perfect but he got his edge and ran with it to the bank. But I don't believe that Bill's focus was on the money. That was an result of doing what he liked to do. Steve Jobs is the same way. The biggest difference between Bill & Steve is quality control going out the door. And innovation. MSFT is innovative but they approach innovation in a anti-climatic way. And the innovation is ordinary (like the table top interface thing).

Now Apple is not brave enough to step too far into the professional space. I had an Apple support tech tell me that they consider their computers to be personal and not for business work. This was when I was calling for support on accessing an FTP site that airport base station was blocking somehow. That was a disappointing response but it does enforce Apples narrow view of the space they play in. I think Windows views their computers being used primmarily for business and personal secondary. Two completely different philosophies.

[Rot'nApple]

If you knew anything, you'd know that the BSOD, though annoying, is actually very useful because it gives you all the diagnostics you need to fix the problem. Unlike Mac OS X's pretty kernel panics, which tell you nothing.


You are right, if I knew anything...

Not being a computer tech person myself or knowing the A-Z history of Microsoft and what they produced, let me tell you what I DO KNOW...

My first Mac I purchased along with a friend in CompUSA back in Aug 1995. What's special about that date? Windows 95 came out at midnight. My friend convinced me to buy Mac instead of PC mainly because she and her husband said all their friends that had PC's used them as basic paperweights because they didn't know how to get the best use out of them as say someone like you. And judging from the mad rush and throngs of people buying an OS at midnight so that they could experience something better, leads me to believe the advice my friend gave me was correct.

Lets fast forward thirteen years to Christmas 2008 shall we...

My neighbor's girlfriend got a PC laptop last Christmas. Brought it home and there it sat because even with the 4 GB RAM, the thing was slow as molasses with all that bloatware and other junk. I asked why not get rid of it, and clean it up. She replied, my brother's better at doing that than I, so I'll let him take care of it when I go back home for Christmas (she being on the east coast, family on the west coast). One - this would definitely be a premiere ad for Apple to run regarding MS laptop hunter ads. Two - she may have been lazy or just the thought of having to mess with the system gave her worries of doing something wrong and making a bad situation worse as opposed to, oh call me crazy, something working correctly right out of the box. I guess we are back to that "PC users used them as paperweights because they didn't know how to get the best use out of them as say someone like you." idea.

Let's go to near present day, shall we...

Another neighbor down the road, her son visited an ESPN website and some "anti-virus" company put some malware program into her system causing pop ups saying your computer is infected. Who did my friend call, a guy with a Mac to see if I could help. Being able to count the times I sat and used a PC, actually used a PC, on two hands, I went over and looked at it. I asked her to navigate to the Add/Remove application function [I'm not totally lacking Windows knowledge, I do read MacRumors :) ] Seeing that there was no actual application there to remove limited me from further help but knowing that she had talked to a friend with PC know how, I said call him. She did, and told him I was there trying to help but I'm a Mac guy to which he told her "We'll forgive him" and when she told me that, I said "Hey, who is over who's house, trying to fix who's computer?!" Anyway, he told her to go to the Add/Remove function also, to which I grinned at my friend, he came up empty handed, but he said the next day he could help get rid of it by giving her a program to run, however, the infestation was a time limited virus and it went away on its own. Real nice of a anti-virus software company infecting your computer and then enticing you to spend money to buy their online service to get rid of what they just installed. Fortunately, me and my Mac never experienced that.

In fact, the four Macs I owned since August 1995, I filled them up with a bunch of stuff... photos, letters, documents, visited tons of website, e-mails, even purchased a WYSIWYG accounting software (bigbusiness.com) and helped my friends with their business selling a 'learning English' program from the UK (Letterland.com) to the public schools across the USA, you know the stuff PC users do and never in my four computer usage did I ever have to worry about any of my Macs "pretty kernel panics"! Not saying it doesn't happen and that it doesn't exist, just telling you my run in's with PC and my Mac! Go Apple! :apple: :cool:

[cumanzor]

Not really....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kildall#IBM_dealings

I boils down to MS was willing to let IBM push them around because they were gambling that clones would show up and then they would get their shot at less crappy deals. They did and won big.

At the time IDR was the big player in the OS market. Even so, they were almost in IBM's roundoff error in terms in revenue. Signing a lopside NDA (we get to take any of your info, but you get none of ours), was a leap they just didn't take. [ If there were cell phones and secure web confernecing around back then they might have had less of a disconnect. ] After IBM going toe-to-toe with the US Govt for extended period of time can let slide on not going to court (again these days they just would have sued IBM and MS on the clone they had.). However, the ball breaker was $40 vs. $240 ... which one would you buy?? Shades of Snow Leoopard pricing versus Ultra-super-duper Windows 7 ...... without all of the legacy application leverage that Windows has.

I find it hilarious when you guys actually use the "Snow leopard is $30 and W7 is $200" argument, since it isn't a secret that Apple computers are way more expensive than their PC counterparts.

[bretm]

While I'm no Microsoft fan, I wouldn't call Gates a nothing. He has personally given $35 billion to charity over 8 years. Jobs doesn't contribute much if anything.

Why does charity deem the value of ones person? What does that say for those who accept large sums of money? Apparently, by this logic, they are the dregs of society? What an interesting thought process. Oh, wait the needy are really good people too? So what about all of us that work hard to feed our families and enjoy our own lives the way we deserve? I guess we're neither needy nor charity givers, so we're bad people. WTH. Charity is absolutely no measure of a human's worth.

[i.mac]

While I'm no Microsoft fan, I wouldn't call Gates a nothing. He has personally given $35 billion to charity over 8 years. Jobs doesn't contribute much if anything.

I agree with you. We should give credit where credit is due. Old Bill Gates gives a lot of money for research in many areas, and humanity at large is better off by this.

[cumanzor]

Why does charity deem the value of ones person? What does that say for those who accept large sums of money? Apparently, by this logic, they are the dregs of society? What an interesting thought process. Oh, wait the needy are really good people too? So what about all of us that work hard to feed our families and enjoy our own lives the way we deserve? I guess we're neither needy nor charity givers, so we're bad people. WTH. Charity is absolutely no measure of a human's worth.

Yours is an interesting though process actually.

Charity by itself does not define someone's worth. In fact, I don't believe you can possibly measure a human's worth.

But, doing things that will ultimately help people, that's something.

[bretm]

These numbers are always so large they are meaningless. It's no measure of the person just the business entity that holds their name.

What I'd like to really see is Annualized Return on Investment.
Take their net wealth at say 18 and now what is the average growth in their stock. That would be a real measure of smarts.

Sorry, no. Apple is worth a buttload more than 5 billion. That is what Steve's stock portfolio, house , car, etc is worth. There is no company bearing his name. Same goes with Bill Gates for that matter.

[DMann]

Yours is an interesting though process actually.

Charity by itself does not define someone's worth. In fact, I don't believe you can possibly measure a human's worth.

But, doing things that will ultimately help people, that's something.

Which will not come close to putting a small dent in the hundreds of billions

of dollars lost in downtime due to running his half-baked OS and software:

http://www.osdata.com/pict/AIX43_h.gif

Reliability, or Lack Thereof (http://www.osdata.com/holistic/reliable/reliable.htm)

[studiomusic]

Had number 33 from the list in the office today. VERY compassionate couple!
Looking to grant $ for education. Much respect!!

[NT1440]

I find it hilarious when you guys actually use the "Snow leopard is $30 and W7 is $200" argument, since it isn't a secret that Apple computers are way more expensive than their PC counterparts.

It just funny that people don't mind paying astronomical prices for software that is crippled unless you drop some serious dime.

[cloudblood84]

most everyone in this thread seems to be missing the point. Steve Jobs is worth X amount. Great, now why are we arguing over abolutely NOTHING?

how does every thread on macrumors turn into a apple vs. _____. Instead of , oh wow that's cool, and moving on with your day?

you people are crazed.

[cumanzor]

Which will not come close to putting a small dent in the hundreds of billions

of dollars lost in downtime due to running his half-baked OS and software:

http://www.osdata.com/pict/AIX43_h.gif

Reliability, or Lack Thereof (http://www.osdata.com/holistic/reliable/reliable.htm)

Which had absolutely nothing to do with THAT post.

Congratulations, you did it again, turning a conversation into a meaningless "DEATH TO MS" troll.

Either way. As I said, Exchange + Live Communications Server + Sharepoint + Windows Server is a killer combination that cannot be topped by anything in the market.

[DisMyMac]

Had number 29 from the list in the office today. VERY compassionate couple! Looking to grant $ for education. Much respect!!

Perhaps. I generally view big-philanthropy with suspicion, because they are only giving to causes deemed worthy in their own narrow perspective. The causes are typically vague like "education" or "violence prevention". The singular outcome always seems to be increased political power for themselves, and exasperation of the stated issue, if it ever even existed.

Still, sometimes a gift is just a gift.

[DMann]

Which had absolutely nothing to do with THAT post. Either way. As I said, Exchange + Live Communications Server + Sharepoint + Windows Server is a killer combination that cannot be topped by anything in the market."But, doing things that will ultimately help people, that's something." Just who was this statement pertaining to? Is this an attempt to justify someone's

unethical, predatory, and admittedly sloppy product standards?" Yes, it may be something, but it hardly negates the losses his crapware has continually created for thousands of companies per year.

We have problems with Exchange, Office 2007, XP, Vista, and and IE8, on a daily basis.

[cloudblood84]

Perhaps. I generally view big-philanthropy with suspicion, because they are only giving to causes deemed worthy in their own narrow perspective. The causes are typically vague like "education" or "violence prevention". The singular outcome always seems to be increased political power for themselves, and exasperation of the stated issue, if it ever even existed.

Still, sometimes a gift is just a gift.

giving people AIDS medication and mosquito nets so they don't get Malaria sounds pretty important to me. i'm sure the people on the recieving end dont give a crap about your trivial arguments, where it came from or how it got there.

[DisMyMac]

giving people AIDS medication and mosquito nets so they don't get Malaria sounds pretty important to me. i'm sure the people on the recieving end dont give a crap about your trivial arguments, where it came from or how it got there.

Who could ever oppose such a thing?

Ask no more questions -- just believe that AIDS and malaria will be gone very soon...

[cloudblood84]

Also, philanthropy is a HUGE catch-22. We criticize them if they give to charity (ulterior motives, taxes, publicity etc.) and damn them if they don't give to charity at all, we also assume they don't give to charity if its not publicized. so everyone basically needs to step down from their soapboxes and give it up

[Legolover64]

All you Microsoft haters sound like you're just jealous of success. I'll never understand the mentality. They're obviously making money, and they're obviously in the marketshare majority, and that seems to be working out just fine for them. Apple's marketshare may be growing, but it still pales in comparison to Redmond. Not that marketshare is good or bad, but seriously, you guys are ridiculous. "Microsoft is McDonalds and makes crap software" "Bill Gates is a nobody." Listen, I'm a Mac user to the bone, but please just look at the facts. Bill Gates donates TONS of money to charity organizations, including his own, and has been greatly participating in philanthropy. That's much much much more than I can say for Steve Jobs, as much as you'd like to think he's godlike or something...

[cloudblood84]

Who could ever oppose such a thing?

Ask no more questions -- just believe that AIDS and malaria will be gone very soon...

i'm not sure if you're trying to be snide or not, but

A. it's actually a serious issue that is bigger than whatever love affair you have with a person whom you've never met.

B. you all took this simple statement of SJ's net worth and made it about bill gates

[bretm]

Yours is an interesting though process actually.

Charity by itself does not define someone's worth. In fact, I don't believe you can possibly measure a human's worth.

But, doing things that will ultimately help people, that's something.

Define helping people. It's not an easy thing to do. And once again, if sacrifice is a measure of worth, then what is the measure of worth for those that are deemed in need of sacrifice?

Answer me this:
Why is it immoral for me to earn things of value by my own intellect, and use it for my own pleasure, yet moral for me to give it away to those who did not earn it? It is moral for those to accept my donation and gift and enjoy it. The entire concept is flawed by it's very nature. If I am selfless and virtuous to give, are those not selfish and vicious who accept it? Why is it not moral to keep a value, yet moral for others to accept it? This creed serves the purpose of those who wish us to accept it. Politicians and religions all live by this mantra. It's damning really. It is immoral to live by your own effort, yet moral to live by the effort of others. Evil to profit by achievement but good to to enjoy it at the price of the sweat of others. Immoral or greedy to earn, but
moral to mooch. If I am successful, I am a slave to those who have failed. To summarize, who deems who is in needy of help? There will always be those who are needier than I. There will always be those with more than I. What pleasure in life can I rightfully accept, and what debt do I owe to others?

</Ayn Rand inspired rant> :)

[cloudblood84]

All you Microsoft haters sound like you're just jealous of success. I'll never understand the mentality. They're obviously making money, and they're obviously in the marketshare majority, and that seems to be working out just fine for them. Apple's marketshare may be growing, but it still pales in comparison to Redmond. Not that marketshare is good or bad, but seriously, you guys are ridiculous. "Microsoft is McDonalds and makes crap software" "Bill Gates is a nobody." Listen, I'm a Mac user to the bone, but please just look at the facts. Bill Gates donates TONS of money to charity organizations, including his own, and has been greatly participating in philanthropy. That's much much much more than I can say for Steve Jobs, as much as you'd like to think he's godlike or something...

dude don't you get it? bill gates is NOT steve jobs, he is a competitor, therefore he is inherently evil. nothing he could ever do could be seen in a positive light by such rabid fanboys, just don't waste your breath trying to reason with these kids

[Darkroom]

my word, only 43? we'll have to revoke his membership at the country club. how embarrassing!

[bretm]

I find it hilarious when you guys actually use the "Snow leopard is $30 and W7 is $200" argument, since it isn't a secret that Apple computers are way more expensive than their PC counterparts.

Does Microsoft makes computers? When they do we'll debate what they charge for them.

So how much does a Dell Octo-Core Xeon cost these days?

[huntor]

and ranked #1 on MacRumors list of badasses.

[Buzz Bumble]

While I'm no Microsoft fan, I wouldn't call Gates a nothing. He has personally given $35 billion to charity over 8 years. Jobs doesn't contribute much if anything.

Luckily for Steve Jobs he doesn't have a nagging wife telling him to do more charity work simply to improve his public image like Bill Gates does. Plus Steve Jobs already has a much better public image than Greedy Gates anyway. :)



You are so right, the foundation of OS X is much more original.... ;)

Yep. What is now called Mac OS "Classic" definitely is more original. ;)

[Buzz Bumble]

Bill Gates is a thief and a liar. Taking money he stole and giving it to other people does not make him a better person.

Steve Jobs has made millions of peoples's lives easier while Bill Gates is responsible for trillions of dollars of lost productivity in the business world.

Steve Jobs has made millions of people happy, while Bill Gates has driven more people to nervous breakdowns, alcoholism, drug addiction and suicide than any other single human being.

Not to mention that Bill Gates has no doubt been paid some over-bloated obscene salary for decades while Steve Jobs has been working for just "$1 a year" (ignoring that both of them got stock as well). :)

[kbrittle]

Luckily for Steve Jobs he doesn't have a nagging wife telling him to do more charity work simply to improve his public image like Bill Gates does. Plus Steve Jobs already has a much better public image than Greedy Gates anyway. :)


yes, because this is completely relevant

[Buzz Bumble]

...
MS runs on virtually every PC out there.
Apple can only get theirs to run on the very few that they manufacture.
...

Apple doesn't want it's OS running on "virtually every PC out there" ... that's the point. Microsoft's ambition is basically "world domination" with crap software. Apple on the other hand is happy with it's tiny (but growing) slice of the pie and quality software that actually works.

As for software not working, nothing ever man made is going to be completely error-free ... God help us if Microsoft ever get their paws into self-driving cars!! The "blue screen of death" will become a reality. :eek:

[kbrittle]

Apple doesn't want it's OS running on "virtually every PC out there" ... that's the point. Microsoft's ambition is basically "world domination" with crap software. Apple on the other hand is happy with it's tiny (but growing) slice of the pie and quality software that actually works.

As for software not working, nothing ever man made is going to be completely error-free ... God help us if Microsoft ever get their paws into self-driving cars!! The "blue screen of death" will become a reality. :eek:

what does this have to do with Steve Jobs' net worth?

[Buzz Bumble]

Originally Posted by akm3 View Post
Version three is always the good one with MSFT

So is Windows7 v2 or v3 of Longhornish OS?

Neither ... it's version 87 of AmigaOS. ;)

[huntor]

While I'm no Microsoft fan, I wouldn't call Gates a nothing. He has personally given $35 billion to charity over 8 years. Jobs doesn't contribute much if anything.

tax write off.

and saying steve jobs doesn't contribute much if anything, is 20 times more ridiculous then calling gates a nothing. jobs is apple. if he wouldn't have been brought back ten years ago we probably wouldn't have the iPod or iPhone. and god knows what OSX would be like today if jobs wouldn't have been there to demand perfection. and from what i hear jobs has put his life into this new tablet.

wtf has gates done other then sit back and count his money?

[kbrittle]

tax write off.

and saying steve jobs doesn't contribute much if anything, is 20 times more ridiculous then calling gates a nothing. jobs is apple. if he wouldn't have been brought back ten years ago we probably wouldn't have the iPod or iPhone. and god knows what OSX would be like today if jobs wouldn't have been there to demand perfection. and from what i hear jobs has put his life into this new tablet.

wtf has gates done other then sit back and count his money?

wow, so without steve jobs you wouldn't have an ipod.

without bill gates you wouldn't have medicine to give to your child dying of AIDS.

...nice.

[dirtyhen]

You guys are judging Gates and Jobs even you haven't talked or known them well. I feel like Windows guys say Mac is crap and Mac guys say Windows is crap. It's endless and there's no point. I'm using Mac and I love it, but there's no problem at all with Windows to me. If you said Gates is a thief, liar or something like that. It's just the way market works, he took his chance and turned it into one of the biggest company, it's fair enough. If it were me or you, we all did it. He "might" not be a creative person but he have been a superior business man. If you don't like to use Windows, then just leave it there and go and use Mac. We don't need to say it's crap, ********* or everything about it. Really, think about it, you won't love to hear others judging you even they haven't met you for a second, so don't do it :)

[iphones4evry1]

Now I know where all of my money is going :(

AT&T takes it from me, and then gives it's royalties to Apple, who in turn gives it to Steve Jobs.

[RTee]

Kinda sad when you think there's people out there in the world through no fault of their own that are starving.

Otherwise, good result for SJ and Billy G

[macswitcha2]

That's freaking a lot of money!!! I wonder what its like.....

[MorphingDragon]

wow, so without steve jobs you wouldn't have an ipod.

without bill gates you wouldn't have medicine to give to your child dying of AIDS.

...nice.

AIDS is incurable.

Bad analogy.

Without Steve Jobs, the visions at Xerox would of continued to wasted away under a management that didn't know what they had. They had Networking and OO-P as well. Yet it was never Xerox's name attached to them.

[kbrittle]

AIDS is incurable.

Bad analogy.

Without Steve Jobs, the visions at Xerox would of continued to wasted away under a management that didn't know what they had. They had Networking and OO-P as well. Yet it was never Xerox's name attached to them.


there is medicine to treat/prolong life of those infected with HIV/AIDS.

we are comparing an iPod/tech product to medical research affecting the lives of millions of people worldwide....give your argument a rest. Go to Africa and see if they give a crap about Xerox, blah blah networking.

[macswitcha2]

Kinda sad when you think there's people out there in the world through no fault of their own that are starving.

Otherwise, good result for SJ and Billy G

Yes, I often think about what I have and what others have in contrast to people that are unable to have one meal and we spend, not bad in of itself, thousands of dollars on microchips, graphic cards, etc, all in cased in aluminum or plastic. Praise God that technology has made life better and creates jobs and all that but why is there still poverty???? :(

[Buzz Bumble]

wow, so without steve jobs you wouldn't have an ipod.

Yep, without Steve Jobs you wouldn't an iPod ... then again you would have a Zune either, so it's debatable whether Steve Jobs' return was a good thing or not. ;)

[exodus]

You guys are writing faster than I can read. I'm still on page 5...
-ex

[RebootD]

What I was referring to was the fact that some people are trying to put Gate's charity work in such a bad light. Despicable.

And of course they are taking advantage of every tax rule they can. Nothing wrong, or illegal, with that whatsoever.

On this forum, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Sorry it came across wrong I was agreeing with you =)

I think people need to separate personal lives from their careers. Right now Bill and his wife created a foundation and pour BILLIONS into it in order to aid people around the globe. That hardly paints the personal life side of Bill as the 'antichrist' people make him out to be on here.

[RebootD]

AIDS is incurable.

Bad analogy.

Without Steve Jobs, the visions at Xerox would of continued to wasted away under a management that didn't know what they had. They had Networking and OO-P as well. Yet it was never Xerox's name attached to them.

Are you really comparing AIDS research and treatment to XEROX? That starting a multi-billion dollar foundation to help underprivileged people is somehow less important than SJ's involvement with XEROX? AIDS is 'incurable' so let's just write them all off.. we have Snow Leopard Hurrah!!!

This is the saddest post I've ever read on here.

[Droid13]

We see tremendous value for our money. Being premium priced is part of being a premium brand. You may or not may not believe this, but if Apple started matching every POS Dell prices, it would drive Apple's core fanbase away not increase it.

Value for money is a subjective term - some people are willing to pay more than others and I think, generally, Apple hardware is more expensive than PC, but not by that much.

I have two main problems when it comes to shopping for a Mac:

1) Support is very poor in the UK - my Dell has a support package that includes 24/7 phone support and an engineer on site next day at a cost of £10 for 4 years on a £1,000 system - even though now the cost is as much as AppleCare, this kind of support is not available from Apple. With Apple you either (a) take it to a store and wait for a week to have it fixed or (b) if you live north of Glasgow and no where near a store you post it to a 3rd party who are authorised to do AppleCare repairs.

2) I've been looking at the high-end systems as photography is my main hobby - my MacBook really struggles with RAW format files from newer DSLRs, some of my images are in 28 megs and over. However, the iMac and Mac Pro don't have the same graphics capability as the PC market - it took so long for a GTX 295 to appear on the Mac side and now ATI have their HD 5800 series out - how long before I can put them in? And can I SLI/Crossfire? I play games too and would have a Windows partition for this purpose...

Back to the main point of this thread though - Apple is clearly doing well in what are tough economic times and are to be commended for it. They have no obligation to satisfy anyone except their shareholders, I know, and what they are doing clearly works well for them. It's just a bit of wishful thinking on my part that some of this would filter down to us users in some small way...

Are you really comparing AIDS research and treatment to XEROX? That starting a multi-billion dollar foundation to help underprivileged people is somehow less important than SJ's involvement with XEROX? AIDS is 'incurable' so let's just write them all off.. we have Snow Leopard Hurrah!!!

This is the saddest post I've ever read on here.

Not to mention that AIDS isn't "incurable" - it's just that we haven't found a cure yet. But there is so much research going on and there's stuff in the news every couple of months about some advance here or there... Maybe the next 10 years? Maybe 20? Who knows? I'm going to go back through this thread and see how AIDS managed to get mentioned here...

[markm49uk]

That the bumbling buffoon Steve Ballmer is worth $13 billion is quite possibly fate's cruelest joke on mankind in the entire history of fate, cruel jokes, and mankind.
:D - Sadly so true

[kbrittle]

Not to mention that AIDS isn't "incurable" - it's just that we haven't found a cure yet. But there is so much research going on and there's stuff in the news every couple of months about some advance here or there... Maybe the next 10 years? Maybe 20? Who knows? I'm going to go back through this thread and see how AIDS managed to get mentioned here...

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation that some are criticizing, primarily gives money to HIV/AIDS research in hard hit African countries, they also provide money needed for mosquito nets to prevent the spread of malaria.

It's certainly more relevant than 95% of what everyone else is saying. (Xerox???)

[Winni]

50 billion huh? And yet his company still continues to turn out some of the crappiest software available. M$ is the McDonalds of the computer world, with one exception, their stuff ain't that cheap.

LanPhantom

Sure. That certainly explains why there are usually no "better" alternatives to Microsoft products in the enterprise market and why the Microsoft BackOffice (read: server) products are the most versatile and best supported products that money can buy.

It most certainly also explains why even on the ah-so-great Mac OS X Microsoft Office has become the de facto standard for office products - and not Apple's iWork or the Open Source OpenOffice.org. Obviously, most people prefer to pay for Microsoft's "crappy" software instead of using something that they could get for free.

I have a bunch of Linux-based servers in our server room, and also several Windows Servers. In my experience, the Microsoft stuff "just works" while the Linux servers demand more support and maintenance and a royal pain to install and configure. And no, there are no Apple products in our server room. Why? Because Apple does not have any worth mentioning.

By the way: McDonald's food also is far from being cheap, too. You can actually get good - and even healthy - food for the price of a regular "meal" at McDonald's.

[TennisandMusic]

What cracks me up about this thread is all the people saying Gates made his fortune on "crap software" or by "stealing", while Steve Jobs makes things that "actually work."

Just a few points:

Bill Gates actually programs. Steve jobs doesn't. In fact he even ripped of Woz big time in the olden days. He is no saint. He simply gets people to do his bidding.

In many ways, Windows 7 stomps all over Snow Leopard, which is still not that fast and appears to be incredibly bug ridden. It simply does not "just work." What's sad about that is that their hardware configurations are VERY few, and they STILL have messed up some of their systems. This is frightening, and does not bode well for the future of the OS. They appear to be quickly becoming a phone and music player company first and foremost. Again, many areas where SL doesn't hold a candle to W7, unfortunately.

Certain apps like the finder are woefully inadequate. Why is Apple outdone by third party software like Path Finder? File management in OSX is a nightmare.

Apple makes a decent OS, but it's pretty bug ridden, and also quite dumbed down in a lot of ways. Very restrictive. They also write some BAD software. The iLife suite is complete garbage. Logic gets almost no bug fixes, and has fallen behind in the industry in terms of functionality. I've read that Final Cut Studio is behind the times in video as well. Also, try editing AVCHD on a Mac vs PC. One of them can basically do nothing, the other can play it and edit it absolutely beautifully. Frustrating.

And all I use are OSX machines. So...

[wackymacky]

Bill Gates actually stepped down at Microsoft so he could focus on his charity, where as Steve is in some bomb shelter at infinite loop overseeing the mysterious tablet... I'm just saying...

If memory serves me right, Steve spent the last year geting over his pancreatic cancer, and transplant.

Give the guy a break.

[Steve Ballmer]

That's freaking a lot of money!!! I wonder what its like.....
Having much more money than you could ever possibly spend is really more of a burden than a luxury. That's why it's often easier to just give it away via philanthropy... Where else would it be used?

There's only so many things one can really buy, and people like Bill Gates are known to be relatively modest spenders.

[kernkraft]

tax write off.

and saying steve jobs doesn't contribute much if anything, is 20 times more ridiculous then calling gates a nothing. jobs is apple. if he wouldn't have been brought back ten years ago we probably wouldn't have the iPod or iPhone. and god knows what OSX would be like today if jobs wouldn't have been there to demand perfection. and from what i hear jobs has put his life into this new tablet.

wtf has gates done other then sit back and count his money?


Obviously, you are not a tax expert. Or expert in anything that you are talking about. This is easily one of the most out-of-touch comments that I have seen on this site.

[Steve Ballmer]

Obviously, you are not a tax expert. Or expert in anything that you are talking about. This is easily one of the most out-of-touch comments that I have seen on this site.
I agree, that was an awful reply.

Bill Gates has done a lot for Microsoft even since retiring as CEO, just like Steve Jobs virtually revived Apple from the dead in the late 90s. And what both choose to do with their money should really be their business and no one else's.

[tdream]

Billo lost more than SJ is worth last year and is still the richest man on the planet. :D

[kernkraft]

That list includes other entrepreneurs too. Some of them will have or have had more relevance than they are given credit for.

But if it comes down to this useless and pretty stupid PC-Mac conflict, we have to recognise that Gates did more for the spread of the whole concept of 'Operating System' than anybody else. Yes, he made controversial decisions and he was often accused of exploiting his company's position. Yet, he not just 'gave' well over 30 BILLION USD to charity (and it is not tax deductible, by the way). He simply established a whole new way of philanthropy, introducing a new way of influence and efficiency in the wasteful and underfunded world of NGOs. His 30b+ USD contribution has so much impact that it just cannot be understated.

Of course, if we are talking about products - as I can see, some people can only think in consumerism - Jobs gave us iPods, the mouse, Firewire (then took it away, then gave it back) and Apple TV ;) . He is also a highly controversial figure if we consider the organisational culture he is responsible for in his corporation. I already mentioned the share backdating fiasco and the mismanagement of his health state as a legal duty some time ago, I don't want to waste time with that.

Of course, Jobs is also responsible for leading a company that gives consumers an alternative choice. He is responsible to maintain a kind of industrial design within the product range that is actually not a bad balance between price, usability and appearance. He is not as generous with his money as others, but after all, even Henry Frick, a much hated industrialist was able to leave his name associated with art and public good. We never know, whether Jobs will get sick of spending his time with product development, taking part in some corporate jungle warfare. After all, he was close to death enough to have his priorities changed and to see that there is life outside of computers and iPods.

[MorphingDragon]

there is medicine to treat/prolong life of those infected with HIV/AIDS.

we are comparing an iPod/tech product to medical research affecting the lives of millions of people worldwide....give your argument a rest. Go to Africa and see if they give a crap about Xerox, blah blah networking.

IMO, It's against the Hippocratic Oath to prolong someone's life who is suffering. As you are causing pain and suffering.

Ahh, Gold Ol' Ethics debate.

I'd be more sympathetic to organizations like world vision and the bill trust if they weren't busy lining their pockets with the children's money. (Yes I know quite a few people that stopped working for World Vision, CARE etc because of this reason) If you really want to help, get rid of companies like DeBees and the Warlords that control the money... and the food.


Not to mention that AIDS isn't "incurable" - it's just that we haven't found a cure yet. But there is so much research going on and there's stuff in the news every couple of months about some advance here or there... Maybe the next 10 years? Maybe 20? Who knows? I'm going to go back through this thread and see how AIDS managed to get mentioned here...

Wow, do you even know what AIDS does to the body? It cuts off the Immune system and renders it useless. Its not possible to have an immune system transplant either. Its a collective of organs and glands. Technically its not aids that kill, its the secondary Virii, bacteria and parasites that do.

I don't mean to sound insensitive, its terrible whats happening to 3rd world countries + China. I support the Voice of The Matyrs personally. But the only way to really get things done is have a governing body for "organizations" like World Vision. They must get oodles of US dollars but how much of that actually end up in the children's hands as food ,bandages or medicine?

[windywoo]

- which was undeniably a CP/M clone. When Kildall threatened to sue IBM, IBM responded with a proposal to offer CP/M-86 as an option for the PC in return for a release of liability, which Kildall mistakenly accepted. However, when the IBM PC was introduced, IBM sold its OS as an unbundled, but necessary option. One of the OS options was PC-DOS, priced at $40. CP/M-86 shipped a few months later, priced at $240, and sold poorly against PC-DOS. One can only wonder why.

But Gary Kildall has as much to do with his lack of success here as MS. You are just looking for reasons to hate. Isn't that the free market I hear so much talk of on these boards? The one used to defend Apple when they lock down their own OS and products?

Settling out of court is not the same thing as admitting guilt, or even mean there was a high chance of being found guilty. And if the settlement was deemed good enough by Gary Kildall's lawyers who knew the case better than you, don't you feel slightly wretched to be droning about it after so many years?

[star-fish]

We see tremendous value for our money. Being premium priced is part of being a premium brand. You may or not may not believe this, but if Apple started matching every POS Dell prices, it would drive Apple's core fanbase away not increase it.

Drive it away to where? Where would all the loyal Apple fanboys and girls get their overpriced equipment from? It's not every company that makes a $79 keyboard that requires tinfoil to make it work you know.

[dernhelm]

I agree, that was an awful reply.

Bill Gates has done a lot for Microsoft even since retiring as CEO, just like Steve Jobs virtually revived Apple from the dead in the late 90s. And what both choose to do with their money should really be their business and no one else's.

Right on. Gates wasn't really known for his charity work until after he stepped down as CEO. Since then, his charity work has been unprecedented. Credit him or that. Warren Buffet and others on the list aren't even in the same league. But to slag on Jobs for not doing the same thing neglects the fact that he's still acting CEO of Apple, and very active in Pixar/Disney.

Let's wait until Jobs steps down as CEO before trying to compare what he does to what Bill has already done.

[edesignuk]

Gates wasn't really known for his charity work until after he stepped down as CEO. Since then, his charity work has been unprecedented. Credit him or that. Warren Buffet and others on the list aren't even in the same league.The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation was founded in 1994. They've been doing good work for a long time. Now that he has left MS the media just focus on the foundation more.

Warren Buffet is leaving ~$30bn to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, I'd say that puts him way up the league.

[DanielSw]

Most posters here have gotten it all wrong. The Jobs they "hate" is a fabrication out of the gossip-fueled collective realities of those that false reality has somehow disappointed.

If anyone cares to know the man himself, listen to his famous Stanford commencement speech. He pretty much sums up his life and motivations in that speech for the benefit of the graduates in attendance.

I admire him as an individual. His dedication to his self-appointed goals, his drive and determination, his leadership skills in forming, guiding, and nurturing Apple Computer into a mulit-billion-dollar company which employs thousands, and the broad array of products which millions (my wife and me included) use, which enhance our own lives; are all laudable accomplishments, which can and do serve as good examples for others to emulate.

I also admire his creativity, assuming the profound influence he has in the design of Apple, Inc.'s products. I've used Apple products to make my living since the early '80s. I appreciate very much the Apple brand on those products and the qualities which that has come to stand for after more than two decades. Apple products, out of my own choice to keep buying them over those years, have enabled me to do what I want to do in making my own products.

Just as I'm not concerned with ephemeral aspects such as "net worth", neither am I concerned with "perfection", as such, except to use it as a point of comparison for evaluating "quality." How good does a product have to be? As an artist, it's: "quality adequate to elicit an emotional response."

Steve Jobs is an artist in that right, as Apple's products have generally elicited my own emotional responses over the years, but no more than in recent years as they get especially good with their ingenuity, beautiful industrial design, and their enabling power for me to enhance my abilities in realizing my own artistic accomplishments.

[EagerDragon]

Bill Gates is 100 times a better person that Steve Jobs. His charity work is immense and Steve Jobs has done little of value in comparison.

You can not buy your way into heaven, even if you and Bill Gates have been hearing otherwise.

If he was such a great guy, he would give 40 Billion to charity and live on just 10 for the rest of his life.

Giving away .0001% of you money is nothing, besides there is other people contributing to those funds.

Is not being nice, it is a writeoff on the tax sheet.

[opeter]

Bill Gates is a thief and a liar. Taking money he stole and giving it to other people does not make him a better person.

Steve Jobs has made millions of peoples's lives easier while Bill Gates is responsible for trillions of dollars of lost productivity in the business world.

Steve Jobs has made millions of people happy, while Bill Gates has driven more people to nervous breakdowns, alcoholism, drug addiction and suicide than any other single human being.

So, it seems, that Robin Hood was a thief too, right?

[edesignuk]

It astounds me how people can be so bitter, hateful and critical of a man that dedicates his time, efforts, vast sums of money, and considerable talents to charity.

Business is business. Any business the size of MS will have, and will continue to do things people and even regulators aren't too happy about. This is capitalism, love it or hate it.

The point is surely what people do with their conceivably ill-gotten gains, and Bill Gates does great work through what has to be the most well funded charitable foundation ever conceived.

[Hypocrite]

Why are we debating over how much and in what way someone donates their money to charity or its JUST this and JUST that. I see 35 billion as more than enough money to donate probably more than you can ever achieve or give in a life time. So Lets move on this silly argument leading to non relevant posts and smudge insults

[Hypocrite]

If he was such a great guy, he would give 40 Billion to charity and live on just 10 for the rest of his life.

Giving away .0001% of you money is nothing, besides there is other people contributing to those funds.

Is not being nice, it is a writeoff on the tax sheet.[/QUOTE]

How much money have you given to charity I hope a considerable percentage of your income if your saying that.... You people must have no idea of the worth of money. Probably spoiled little children who are given exactly what they want and come on post bashing honorable men because they know they could never get to that point. I mean are you kidding me? Same question could apply to Steve Jobs why doesn't he give 4 billion I don't see him giving any kind of percentage of his income to charity?

[jonnysods]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

Have you ever heard the story of how Steve Jobs went to Xerox and they showed him the GUI that they had made? That was the right place and right time for Steve.

[hindmost]

Good for Apple. Good for Steve. I wouldn't change places with him though.

Sitting on the floor in his mansion with a minimalist outlook and eating weeds and bramble bushes has not served him well.

In a word, he doesn't have much left in the way of 'shelf life'. :(

[thecartoonguy]

You can not buy your way into heaven, even if you and Bill Gates have been hearing otherwise.

If he was such a great guy, he would give 40 Billion to charity and live on just 10 for the rest of his life.

Giving away .0001% of you money is nothing, besides there is other people contributing to those funds.

Is not being nice, it is a writeoff on the tax sheet.

Just amazing. So in your mind, he should give just about everything away. But not doing so it's just a tax write off. So just to be sure, according to your vast wisdom, you always give 90% of your paycheck every time? What he does with his money is not up to you.

[iMJustAGuy]

50 billion huh? And yet his company still continues to turn out some of the crappiest software available. M$ is the McDonalds of the computer world, with one exception, their stuff ain't that cheap.

LanPhantom

The only people I recognized on that list were Bill, Michael (Dell), and Steve.

[jonnysods]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

Have you ever heard the story of how Steve Jobs went to Xerox and they showed him the GUI that they had made? That was the right place and right time for Steve.

[thecartoonguy]

wow, no one person needs billions of $.. government should take their money and spread it.. wtf would someone do with $50 billion???

You're kidding right. Why the hell should any government steal money and give it to someone else? it's none of your business what they do with it because THEY WORKED FOR IT!! Get over yourself.

[crackbookpro]

I'd rather see Steve up there than a bunch of these other billionaires in the Top 50...

Congrats to SJ! Guy is a proven leader & innovator...

[ph0rk]

Oh and good for SJ as he deserves every cent. :p

While Jobs certainly does possess a lot of charisma, I am not convinced what he does merits his pay - that any CEO type job merits the pay they receive in the US.

American CEOs tend to make 200 times what the baseline worker in their company makes, by contrast Japanese CEOs make about 10 times what the baseline worker in their company makes.

Are Japanese companies headed by incompetent CEOs? Then why are American CEOs paid so much, what purpose does it serve?

[iOrlando]

how much you think Woz is worth?

[freediverdude]

Well I realize this is just my opinion, but I admire what Steve is doing much more than what Bill Gates is doing.

Steve is actually actively working to enhance the world that we live in via all these new products. Let's face it, products like the iPod and the iPhone have changed many people's worlds, and will go down in the history books. And he's still at it, working on whatever the next big innovation will be.

Bill Gates, just sitting there giving money away, will largely be forgotten, other than being known as a world record philanthropist. There will always be charity money to give away. What will be remembered is how certain people actually innovated and improved civilization.

Like that line that Steve used to hire that executive from Pepsi? Coca-cola? Something along the lines of, "You can sell sugar water for the rest of your life, or you can come with me and change the world."

There are very few people in this world who are in a position to be able to change the world, and have the drive and vision to really do it, all in one package. Steve Jobs is one of those people. Walt Disney was another. Henry Ford also comes to mind.

[JangoFett124]

Well I realize this is just my opinion, but I admire what Steve is doing much more than what Bill Gates is doing.

Steve is actually actively working to enhance the world that we live in via all these new products. Let's face it, products like the iPod and the iPhone have changed many people's worlds, and will go down in the history books. And he's still at it, working on whatever the next big innovation will be.

Bill Gates, just sitting there giving money away, will largely be forgotten, other than being known as a world record philanthropist. There will always be charity money to give away. What will be remembered is how certain people actually innovated and improved civilization.

Like that line that Steve used to hire that executive from Pepsi? Coca-cola? Something along the lines of, "You can sell sugar water for the rest of your life, or you can come with me and change the world."

There are very few people in this world who are in a position to be able to change the world, and have the drive and vision to really do it, all in one package. Steve Jobs is one of those people. Walt Disney was another. Henry Ford also comes to mind.

Seriously? Setting up a huge charitable charity and actively working to rid the world of disease and suffering will be forgotten, but helping to make a better MP3 player makes you a hero?

Both Microsoft and Apple have done a ton for the industry (regardless of whose products you prefer, which for all of us is Apple), but come on...

[zachplaysguitar]

I find it hilarious when you guys actually use the "Snow leopard is $30 and W7 is $200" argument, since it isn't a secret that Apple computers are way more expensive than their PC counterparts.

These are two separate products though.. yes Mac's are overpriced but that's an hardware price comparison; Microsoft does not make computers so only the prices of the OS's can be compared.

[VenusianSky]

These are two separate products though.. yes Mac's are overpriced but that's an hardware price comparison; Microsoft does not make computers so only the prices of the OS's can be compared.

How much is Mac OS X if you are building a Mac computer from scratch or as an OEM?

[gnasher729]

Sorry, no. Apple is worth a buttload more than 5 billion. That is what Steve's stock portfolio, house , car, etc is worth. There is no company bearing his name. Same goes with Bill Gates for that matter.

And of Steve Jobs' $5.1bn, most comes from his 10 million dollar investment in Pixar, which he then swapped for shares in Disney (Steve Jobs is the largest individual shareholder in Disney).

[AidenShaw]

Which will not come close to putting a small dent in the hundreds of billions

of dollars lost in downtime due to running his half-baked OS and software:

http://www.osdata.com/pict/AIX43_h.gif

Reliability, or Lack Thereof (http://www.osdata.com/holistic/reliable/reliable.htm)

Which had absolutely nothing to do with THAT post.

Congratulations, you did it again, turning a conversation into a meaningless "DEATH TO MS" troll.

Either way. As I said, Exchange + Live Communications Server + Sharepoint + Windows Server is a killer combination that cannot be topped by anything in the market.

It's OK cumanzor, the DMann had to reach into the archives from 1998 to show a graph with NT4 server.

He couldn't use a current graph, because it would refute his point. ;)

[gnasher729]

Not to mention that Bill Gates has no doubt been paid some over-bloated obscene salary for decades while Steve Jobs has been working for just "$1 a year" (ignoring that both of them got stock as well). :)

The number that I read was that Bill Gates was paid 140,000 times more than Steve Jobs per year, which makes him still one of the worst paid CEOs of top companies. And Bill Gates didn't get any shares from the company because he started the company and was one of the major owners from the start. Just like Steve Jobs never got any Pixar share options, he _bought_ 50.6 percent of the company for $10 million at a time when it wasn't worth much.

[VenusianSky]

It's OK cumanzor, the DMann had to reach into the archives from 1998 to show a graph with NT4 server.

He couldn't use a current graph, because it would refute his point. ;)

Actually, I am very surprised to see NT 4.0 to score as high as it did back then.

[guzhogi]

Seriously? Setting up a huge charitable charity and actively working to rid the world of disease and suffering will be forgotten, but helping to make a better MP3 player makes you a hero?

Both Microsoft and Apple have done a ton for the industry (regardless of whose products you prefer, which for all of us is Apple), but come on...

I agree. Sure, things like cars & computers have made an impact on our lives, but that pales in comparison to people who cure diseases, bring peace to war-torn areas, etc.

[173080]

Why are some people discussing donations and charity work as if it's some kind of obligation?

Everyone on that list has the right to keep their money. It is not their "duty" to give it away. They're not telling you what to do with your savings account.

So what if Steve Jobs never gives a cent to charity? That doesn't make him a bad person. It's his money, he can choose what to do and what not to do with it.

There's a lot of animosity toward the wealthy in this thread.

[Eric S.]

You know how much $5.1 billion is? It's enough to spend $200,000 a day for 70 years before you go broke.

[phobic99]

The fanboyism on this site never ceases to amaze me. :rolleyes:

[Steev45]

"...an estimated net worth of only $3.4 billion ..."

ONLY 3.4 Billion...

Bless his widdle heart.

I'd like to have the interest on his interest.
(Which roughly equals $3,885,000.)

Of course, money is useless if you don't have a liver that works.

[itsmenyc]

What cracks me up about this thread is all the people saying Gates made his fortune on "crap software" or by "stealing", while Steve Jobs makes things that "actually work."

Just a few points:

Bill Gates actually programs. Steve jobs doesn't. In fact he even ripped of Woz big time in the olden days. He is no saint. He simply gets people to do his bidding.

In many ways, Windows 7 stomps all over Snow Leopard, which is still not that fast and appears to be incredibly bug ridden. It simply does not "just work." What's sad about that is that their hardware configurations are VERY few, and they STILL have messed up some of their systems. This is frightening, and does not bode well for the future of the OS. They appear to be quickly becoming a phone and music player company first and foremost. Again, many areas where SL doesn't hold a candle to W7, unfortunately.

Certain apps like the finder are woefully inadequate. Why is Apple outdone by third party software like Path Finder? File management in OSX is a nightmare.

Apple makes a decent OS, but it's pretty bug ridden, and also quite dumbed down in a lot of ways. Very restrictive. They also write some BAD software. The iLife suite is complete garbage. Logic gets almost no bug fixes, and has fallen behind in the industry in terms of functionality. I've read that Final Cut Studio is behind the times in video as well. Also, try editing AVCHD on a Mac vs PC. One of them can basically do nothing, the other can play it and edit it absolutely beautifully. Frustrating.

And all I use are OSX machines. So...

So... If OSX machines are so bad, why do you use them exclusively? That makes no sense. If you think Windows 7 is better why aren't you using it?

[Richard1028]

Why would anyone rate this a negative? :confused:Because 95% of the mac community is made up of idealogical loons that despise anybody with wealth. Even their Apple fanboism can't compete with that belief.

It's for either this reason or everybody is pissed that Gates is still on top. :D

[VenusianSky]

Why are some people discussing donations and charity work as if it's some kind of obligation?

Everyone on that list has the right to keep their money. It is not their "duty" to give it away. They're not telling you what to do with your savings account.

So what if Steve Jobs never gives a cent to charity? That doesn't make him a bad person. It's his money, he can choose what to do and what not to do with it.

There's a lot of animosity toward the wealthy in this thread.

Yes, each have the right to do as they please with their money, but there is a thing called civic duty. For as far back as the Roman age, the wealthy have typically contributed to charity in some form as part of their civic duty. It is not law, but simply a matter of morality. In addition, a positive public perception is typically returned, which can be used towards business, social and political affairs.
I highly doubt that Steve Jobs has never contributed to charity in some form, but just not at the magnitude as others.

[phobic99]

Either way, good god this thread if full of the most stupid arguments I've ever heard in my life. Including "world domination" by MS and the fact that you guys are, for some f'ed up reason, against the researching cures for AIDS and Malaria just because bad Bill Gates is founding those projects. (edit) Oh and also, the fact that a phone and an MP3 player are more important than curing diseases and suffering..

Come on man. Steve Jobs is truly changing the world with the iPhone and the iPod. Who cares about Bill Gates and his stupid foundation that's granting college scholarships, trying to solve health issues worldwide, and improving our nation's libraries? Have you SEEN the new iPod nano?! It has a camera on it!!

:D

[xhambonex]

I can't decide is this is just funny or pathetic...

Congrats Steve you have a lot of money, where's my tablet?

[kingtj]

Bill Gates wrote a high percentage of the code in the firmware used for the Radio Shack Model 100 portable computer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Model_100

And that was, in fact, pretty much the last project he was really "hands on" with .... but Microsoft licensed BASIC interpreters for many of the early 8-bit computers on the market, and he developed a lot of that stuff himself.



Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

[krzyglue]

Well I realize this is just my opinion, but I admire what Steve is doing much more than what Bill Gates is doing.

Steve is actually actively working to enhance the world that we live in via all these new products. Let's face it, products like the iPod and the iPhone have changed many people's worlds, and will go down in the history books. And he's still at it, working on whatever the next big innovation will be.

Bill Gates, just sitting there giving money away, will largely be forgotten, other than being known as a world record philanthropist. There will always be charity money to give away. What will be remembered is how certain people actually innovated and improved civilization.

Like that line that Steve used to hire that executive from Pepsi? Coca-cola? Something along the lines of, "You can sell sugar water for the rest of your life, or you can come with me and change the world."

There are very few people in this world who are in a position to be able to change the world, and have the drive and vision to really do it, all in one package. Steve Jobs is one of those people. Walt Disney was another. Henry Ford also comes to mind.

Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. Actively enhacing the world with iPods and what not? Last time I checked, MP3 player usage wasn't a factor on the UN's Human Development Index.

[kernkraft]

Steve is actually actively working to enhance the world that we live in via all these new products. Let's face it, products like the iPod and the iPhone have changed many people's worlds, and will go down in the history books. And he's still at it, working on whatever the next big innovation will be.


In that case, he'd better start an iPod that gives billions to charities that supply food, education and support development not just in poor countries but in the United States too. I think it should be called AidPod. Or iEat. Or iAid.



Bill Gates, just sitting there giving money away, will largely be forgotten, other than being known as a world record philanthropist. There will always be charity money to give away. What will be remembered is how certain people actually innovated and improved civilization.


And that is why we do not remember Carnegie, Rockefeller, Frick, Vanderbilt...

But I wonder, where that 30+ billion USD would come from if Gates would not bother to give it away. The World Health Organisation is spending similar amount on healthcare as the Foundation.

By the way, it is not just 'giving it away'. Gates is doing an almost full time job as a trustee, I believe. Obviously, he's not doing Keynotes, that obviously matters to you and Gates is not working on any tablet that will completely change the world for some dedicated Apple fans, that is true.

Personally, taking part in decisions about 'whether famine in one region or genocide in another is more of a threat' is more nobel than overseeing matters like 'what colours and finish the Nanos should get'.


Like that line that Steve used to hire that executive from Pepsi? Coca-cola? Something along the lines of, "You can sell sugar water for the rest of your life, or you can come with me and change the world."


"Let's give music players to millions in the developed world - that WILL change the planet. Or iPhones! The opportunities are endless! How about some computers? They overheat, so poor people can use them as heaters."

[cumanzor]

I'm sorry guys, the reasoning of iPods and iPhones changing and improving civilization is jut ridiculous. We start of with the fact that they were not by any mean the first product of their class (mp3 players and mobile phones already existed, mind you). Their success, as with any other successful product and company can be simply attributed to consumerism. I'm sure as **** that having a $500 cellphone or a $1500 notebook won't exactly, improve civilization.

Now before you twist the argument around, let me say that I have nothing against having expensive products, my point is that this is good for you and only you, not for anyone else in the world.

[BaldiMac]

I'm sorry guys, the reasoning of iPods and iPhones changing and improving civilization is jut ridiculous. We start of with the fact that they were not by any mean the first product of their class (mp3 players and mobile phones already existed, mind you). Their success, as with any other successful product and company can be simply attributed to consumerism. I'm sure as **** that having a $500 cellphone or a $1500 notebook won't exactly, improve civilization.

Now before you twist the argument around, let me say that I have nothing against having expensive products, my point is that this is good for you and only you, not for anyone else in the world.

Of course, without the sale of those expensive baubles, Bill Gates would not have the billions to do the wonderful philanthropic work he does now. I guess it comes down to whether one person with a billion extra dollars can do more good for the world than one million people with $1,000.

[RebootD]

Why are some people discussing donations and charity work as if it's some kind of obligation?

Everyone on that list has the right to keep their money. It is not their "duty" to give it away. They're not telling you what to do with your savings account.

So what if Steve Jobs never gives a cent to charity? That doesn't make him a bad person. It's his money, he can choose what to do and what not to do with it.

There's a lot of animosity toward the wealthy in this thread.

Because people fail to see that Gates = Jobs in the business world. (One just happened to come out on top with $46.5 billion more) People paint Jobs = Saint and Gates = Scourge of Humanity which is ridiculous.

I used the charitable side only to prove he does, in fact, have a conscience outside of the business world.

Hate the business man, don't hate the person. (Same with Jobs or anyone else)

[Buzz Bumble]

Just a few points:

Bill Gates actually programs.

Bill Gates hasn't prgrammed anything in dcades, and even when he did it was never anything that he actually sold. All Microsoft's software has been bought or stolen from other companies. Bill Gates is one of the most over-hyped, useless idiots to ever walk the Earth ... he gives geeks a bad name.

[Steve Ballmer]

Bill Gates hasn't prgrammed anything in dcades, and even when he did it was never anything that he actually sold. All Microsoft's software has been bought or stolen from other companies. Bill Gates is one of the most over-hyped, useless idiots to ever walk the Earth ... he gives geeks a bad name.
The Windows NT kernel was created by Microsoft, for one thing. It was not "bought" or "stolen" from anyone else. Other software applications like Microsoft Office, Media Center, etc. were created solely by Microsoft. That doesn't mean certain technologies within the products haven't been licensed, but to say that Microsoft has never created anything original is completely wrong.

You aren't giving Microsoft any credit at all for the many things they have done. But I can't say I'm surprised.

[Buzz Bumble]

You guys are writing faster than I can read. I'm still on page 5...
-ex

Welcome to my world ... I'm on dial-up with a limited amount of online time, and in a different country and time zone. The "New Posts" button reglaurly shows up 30+ pages of new topics each time I log in. :(

[raythemoneyman]

If you are serious about "getting in" on some of Apple's profit action, here is a great trading video on Apple this week...."Is a Divergence Building in Apple?"

Here is the link > http://tinyurl.com/yb8dgd2

[Buzz Bumble]

IMO, It's against the Hippocratic Oath to prolong someone's life who is suffering.

It's a pity Bill Gates didn't sign that ... Windows wouldn't have made it past version 3.1. Unfortunately he misread the signs in the Town Hall and went into the room to sign the "Hypocrite Oath" instead, one that he proudly obeys and stands by to this day. :(

[Steve Ballmer]

It's a pity Bill Gates didn't sign that ... Windows wouldn't have made it past version 3.1. Unfortunately he misread the signs in the Town Hall and went into the room to sign the "Hypocrite Oath" instead, one that he proudly obeys and stands by to this day. :(
Windows 3.x was the first widely successful version of Windows, selling more than 30 million copies. It was also the OS that confined Mac OS to the niche market it's been in ever since.

I suggest you read up on the history of Windows, because you obviously don't know much about it. Windows 3.x was the first successful release of Windows largely because it made the IBM PC as easy to use as the Macintosh, for a little less cash.

Apple copied Xerox. Microsoft copied Apple. That's how businesses work... You take a good idea and you run with it. Steve Jobs often uses a quote by Picasso: "Good artists copy. Great artists steal."

I guess I just find it odd that it's perfectly fine for Apple to "borrow" ideas, yet when Microsoft does it, it's evil.

[kbrittle]

I guess I just find it odd that it's perfectly fine for Apple to "borrow" ideas, yet when Microsoft does it, it's evil.


hence why you can't reason with the all-things-apple-obsessed who wouldn't know objectivity if it him them in the face

[Buzz Bumble]

I used the charitable side only to prove he does, in fact, have a conscience outside of the business world.

Only because he has a nagging wife who thought it would improve his public image. Left to his own decisions he almost certainly wouldn't have bothered.

Besides which, as the old saying goes, "charity begins at home". If he (and 99% of other companies / management) was such a greatly charitable person, then he wouldn't be charging so much for his garbage software in order to such make obscene profits for his company and management staff. Instead of selling Windows for $200, he'd sell it for $20 ... and what an awful mess the world would be in then with more people using it. :(

[kbrittle]

Besides which, as the old saying goes, "charity begins at home". If he (and 99% of other companies / management) was such a greatly charitable person, then he wouldn't be charging so much ....


does this include Apple too, Or are they part of the special 1%?

[queshy]

Jobs deserves to be successful, he has really changed so many aspects of every day life (for the better ,that is!).

[kbrittle]

Jobs deserves to be successful, he has really changed so many aspects of every day life (for the better ,that is!).

I don't think many people are denying that. I see more "Bill Gates is evil" posts. Not many "good for Jobs, congrats", etc.

[Ljohnson72]

"Bill Gates sucks...... He didn't do anything... blah blah blah"


At the end of the day, he's worth $50,000,000,000 - and you're not. :)

[.Andy]

Only because he has a nagging wife who thought it would improve his public image. Left to his own decisions he almost certainly wouldn't have bothered.
Irrespective of how or why he's come about to set up the Bill and Melinda Gate's foundation it's a wonderful institution that's to the boon of scientific understanding and ultimately humanity. Don't let your personal choice of computer software could your objectivity.

[MorphingDragon]

Windows 3.x was the first widely successful version of Windows, selling more than 30 million copies. It was also the OS that confined Mac OS to the niche market it's been in ever since.

I suggest you read up on the history of Windows, because you obviously don't know much about it. Windows 3.x was the first successful release of Windows largely because it made the IBM PC as easy to use as the Macintosh, for a little less cash.

Apple copied Xerox. Microsoft copied Apple. That's how businesses work... You take a good idea and you run with it. Steve Jobs often uses a quote by Picasso: "Good artists copy. Great artists steal."

I guess I just find it odd that it's perfectly fine for Apple to "borrow" ideas, yet when Microsoft does it, it's evil.

TBH though, with something as essential as a GUI, its hard not to copy. Thats why most GUIs looks similar because its hard to do something different thats usable.

"Bill Gates sucks...... He didn't do anything... blah blah blah"


At the end of the day, he's worth $50,000,000,000 - and you're not. :)

The problem with things like these is that they're always in the eye of the beholder.

[Buzz Bumble]

does this include Apple too, Or are they part of the special 1%?

Yes. It includes 99% of companise because they cahrge far too much for their products, mostly to pay obscene salaries and bonuses to greedy management-types. If these people earned sensible salaries, then products could cost A LOT less. Every time one of theses greedy people ups their salary it starts a vicious cycle that causes everyone else to have to increase their prices ... it's called "inflation", but is reall a "greed-go-around". :(

And yes, I do run my own business, and no I don't charge over-inflated prices.



At the end of the day, he's worth $50,000,000,000 - and you're not. :)

I wouldn't want to be. I'm happy earning a sensible amount. Unlike most of the planet I'm not greedy or obsessed with new toys I don't need.

[kbrittle]

Yes. It includes 99% of companise because they cahrge far too much for their products, mostly to pay obscene salaries and bonuses to greedy management-types. If these people earned sensible salaries, then products could cost A LOT less. Every time one of theses greedy people ups their salary it starts a vicious cycle that causes everyone else to have to increase their prices ... it's called "inflation", but is reall a "greed-go-around". :(

And yes, I do run my own business, and no I don't charge over-inflated prices.



Good :) I'm glad to hear not everyone on this forum is thinking that Apple and SJ can do no wrong.

[Buzz Bumble]

Good :) I'm glad to hear not everyone on this forum is thinking that Apple and SJ can do no wrong.

Since he only earns $1 a year, Steve Jobs may not count (although he does of course get money from the shares, "bonus" jet, etc.) ... but all the other greedy management types at Apple do with their obscene salaries.

[Buzz Bumble]

Irrespective of how or why he's come about to set up the Bill and Melinda Gate's foundation it's a wonderful institution that's to the boon of scientific understanding and ultimately humanity. Don't let your personal choice of computer software could your objectivity.

It's not irrespective at all.

Some people are trying to say Bill Gates is some sort of a good guy because he set-up a foundation and gives away money ... in reality his wife told him to do that, it wasn't his idea at all and without her it wouldn't have even occurred to him. The foundation is largely to polish Gates' badly tarnished public image and no doubt reduce taxes. Helping people is simply a side-affect.

[philipt42]

It's not irrespective at all.

Some people are trying to say Bill Gates is some sort of a good guy because he set-up a foundation and gives away money ... in reality his wife told him to do that, it wasn't his idea at all and without her it wouldn't have even occurred to him. The foundation is largely to polish Gates' badly tarnished public image and no doubt reduce taxes. Helping people is simply a side-affect.

I'm not a big Bill Gates fan, but that just sounds ignorant. I don't think you, or me, or anyone else on the forum knows enough about him or his motives to pass a judgment like that.

[DougB541]

This thread is ridiculous.

Show some respect to both Steve and Bill. Go watch the All Things Digital interview with both of them as they have both contributed more to the personal computer and general software/hardware world than most have.


Without either of them the landscape would be significantly different.

[oban14]

Bill Gates is a nothing and never was. He and Microsoft have never actually designed or written a piece of software themselves. Even back in the original days they bought DOS from someone else, and have continued to buy out or steal software from other companies to this day. They sole claim to fame is being in the right place at the right time ... and we're still suffering the consequences of those bad decisions by managers who didn't have a clue. :(

Yet he's the richest man in the world and you're whining about him on a message forum.

Think about that for a moment.

[jodelli]

Without Steve Jobs, the visions at Xerox would of continued to wasted away under a management that didn't know what they had. They had Networking and OO-P as well.

Well, not exactly wasted away. Bob Metcalfe left Xerox twice if I remember correctly, took ethernet with him and founded 3Com.

Charles Simonyi pretty much did the same with the wysiwyg windowing developed there and moved to Microsoft where he was apparently key in developing Word and Excel.

These are just two of the many PARC alumni who didn't depend on Steve Jobs to get to market.
The Lisa team had pretty much decided on using a GUI and a mouse before the PARC visit. The capable Apple engineers who attended picked up on the nuances of the Xerox research very quickly and made a few changes. It was the coding on the fly that really impressed them.

One PARC fellow who did follow Jobs was Alan Kay, who brought the ideas of Smalltalk and Object Oriented Programming with him.

Larry Tesler and Bob Belleville went to Apple as well with some Smalltalk ideas.

The point I'm making is that talent of that caliber can't be kept back forever and they will go somewhere to get it done.


Michael A. Hiltzik, Dealers of Lightning: Xerox PARC and the Dawn of the Computer Age (HarperCollins, New York, 1999) ISBN 0-88730-989-5

Randall E. Stross, Steve Jobs & The NeXT Big Thing (Macmillan, New York, 1993) ISBN 0-689-12135-0

M. Mitchell Waldrop, The Dream Machine (Viking, New York, 2001) ISBN 0-670-89976-3

[sushi]

Warren Buffet is leaving ~$30bn to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, I'd say that puts him way up the league.
A great outsourcing example. :D

This thread is ridiculous.

Show some respect to both Steve and Bill. Go watch the All Things Digital interview with both of them as they have both contributed more to the personal computer and general software/hardware world than most have.

Without either of them the landscape would be significantly different.
You do make some good points.

SJ and BG, along with PA and the Woz, created a tech ecosystem that many have benefited from hardware to software, from customer to trainer, from user to tech support. This huge industry has benefited many.

Yet he's the richest man in the world and you're whining about him on a message forum.

Think about that for a moment.
Snort! Point. Game. Match. :)

[Gasu E.]

Let's see... $5.1 Billion at $1 per year salary... that means Steve Jobs has been working for... 5.1 Billion Years?!?!?

OMG! Steve Jobs IS GOD!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

[sorchard]

if he wouldn't have been brought back ten years ago we probably wouldn't have the iPod or iPhone. and

Touchscreen phones have existed long before the iPhone came about - they also had more features, a more open OS and are cheaper than the iPhone is now.

MP3 players also existed before the iPod, and better players than the iPod exist today.

I find it hilarious that some people in this thread consider Bill Gates as some sort of truly evil man, and Jobs is some kind of brilliant visionary. Apple aren't exactly a brilliant cuddly customer-oriented company. Gotta love overpriced hardware and ridiculous artificial lockouts. You don't see MS complaining about cooked ROMs for WM phones/PDAs, and you don't see Nokia complaining about hacked OSes for their internet tablets (they even host the hacked images for download).

My PC lets me put any PCI-E graphics card I want in - you can't do that if your Mac Pro is "too old" (which for a machine that costs many thousands of pounds, shouldn't be considered obsolete after 2 years).

[leRiCl]

Both Gates and Buffet have taken advantage of tax rules to form Foundations to which they contribute money and deduct from tax liability. It is a tax dodge first and foremost, and charity second.

If you are a libertarian, you are in favor of the richest billionaires dodging a 40% tax hit on the already thrice taxed cash. If you are a bleeding heart liberal you feel the rich are getting richer on the backs of the poor, so tax them hard. If you are a politically connected democrat like Gates and Buffet, you get the tax break without getting your balls busted on TV.

Good for them.

I hope what they do with their foundations are effective.

Rocketman


They can't get their money back out again; Once it goes in the charity it stays in. The difference between this and paying taxes is that buffet and gates don't need to pay inefficient public servants to spread their wealth. The money also doesn't end up funding wars in overseas countries.

I applaud Bill Gates for using his capitalist skills to support the undeveloped nations who can use charity funds most efficiently.

I observe that most governments, when they give out foreign aid, just give it to nation's government and forget about it. But governments are inefficient... by the time it filters through to the people level it has already been eaten up by corruption and inefficiency. but gates foundation, however, stop handing out aid when the governments in question wastes it.

I appreciate this, as much as I hate windows products.

I'm not saying Steve Jobs doesn't contribute, but I pay more attention to Apple products than any secret charity work Steve Jobs has done.

Taxes make the poor poorer. Look at tobacco, alcohol and lottery ticket taxes... leaving not enough money to save up to invest in companies like Pixar...

[EarthDawn]

50 billion huh? And yet his company still continues to turn out some of the crappiest software available. M$ is the McDonalds of the computer world, with one exception, their stuff ain't that cheap.

LanPhantom

Man that hits the nail on the head !!!

50 Billion ... that is a LOT of $$$ though. I had no idea he was worth that kind of change.

[oban14]

Touchscreen phones have existed long before the iPhone came about - they also had more features, a more open OS and are cheaper than the iPhone is now.

MP3 players also existed before the iPod, and better players than the iPod exist today.

I find it hilarious that some people in this thread consider Bill Gates as some sort of truly evil man, and Jobs is some kind of brilliant visionary. Apple aren't exactly a brilliant cuddly customer-oriented company. Gotta love overpriced hardware and ridiculous artificial lockouts. You don't see MS complaining about cooked ROMs for WM phones/PDAs, and you don't see Nokia complaining about hacked OSes for their internet tablets (they even host the hacked images for download).

My PC lets me put any PCI-E graphics card I want in - you can't do that if your Mac Pro is "too old" (which for a machine that costs many thousands of pounds, shouldn't be considered obsolete after 2 years).

The real genius of Steve Jobs has been his ability to overcharge for products that offer style over substance and yet his customers worship him for it.

He restricts the applications you can install on your iPhone, partners with the worst service provider, and the customers are grateful.

He has the ipod focus on the interface and appearance as opposed to sound quality, and his customers are grateful.

He offers stock intel hardware in a pretty package (often at the expense of function) and his customers are grateful.

They aren't just grateful, they line up overnight to buy this stuff and defend him at all costs online and at dinner parties.

Don't get me wrong, I own two macs and think OSX is a lovely operating system. I use Logic as my DAW, own an iphone, and own an ipod. But I'm not going to sit here, drink the kool-aid and try to convince myself that I should give Steve Jobs a backrub for being so kind as to allow me to buy these products, or that they are without fault. Steve Jobs is every bit as cut throat as Bill Gates and anyone who knows anything about the history of computers and operating systems is aware of this fact.

[Burnsey]

Wow I've fallen to #5, gotta hold off on all that spending.

[CQd44]

The real genius of Steve Jobs has been his ability to overcharge for products that offer style over substance and yet his customers worship him for it.

He restricts the applications you can install on your iPhone, partners with the worst service provider, and the customers are grateful.

He has the ipod focus on the interface and appearance as opposed to sound quality, and his customers are grateful.

He offers stock intel hardware in a pretty package (often at the expense of function) and his customers are grateful.

They aren't just grateful, they line up overnight to buy this stuff and defend him at all costs online and at dinner parties.

Don't get me wrong, I own two macs and think OSX is a lovely operating system. I use Logic as my DAW, own an iphone, and own an ipod. But I'm not going to sit here, drink the kool-aid and try to convince myself that I should give Steve Jobs a backrub for being so kind as to allow me to buy these products, or that they are without fault. Steve Jobs is every bit as cut throat as Bill Gates and anyone who knows anything about the history of computers and operating systems is aware of this fact.

To Apple's credit, their hardware isn't as prone to failure and their notebooks have excellent battery life given the machine's power.

[oban14]

To Apple's credit, their hardware isn't as prone to failure and their notebooks have excellent battery life given the machine's power.

Their hardware is equally prone to failure because it is the same hardware. Intel chips, intel motherboards, Nvidia/ATI graphics cards, WD/Seagate hard drives, you name it. It's all commodity crap from the same factories in China.

A Mac Pro is going to have more reliable hardware (Xeon procs, higher end mother board, etc) but the same can be said about high end workstations from HP or Dell.

Battery life really should be a lot better than it is for both Macs and PCs. My Macbook has fine battery life if I'm just surfing the web but when I'm working on music in Logic it chews up battery like you wouldn't believe.

I've heard good things about the battery life on the MacBook Pro. Personally I'd welcome a bigger/heavier laptop with twice/three times the battery life but I may be in the minority there.