Freedom, the French way

[mouchoir]

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/france/14juillet/gb/14juill.html

Today is 14th July or Bastille Day as it is sometimes known. A testament that sometimes the people can make a difference.

This is in post is in conjunction with the gun thread we recently had talking about the 2nd amendment and armed militias.

Note: I am not suggesting or encouraging a revolution!

Thought it might be interesting for some of you that aren't aware of Frances history, and the parrallels of its constitution and the US'.

Below is the first verse of the French national anthem – after me:

Arise you children of our motherland,
Oh now is here our glorious day !
Over us the bloodstained banner
Of tyranny holds sway !
Of tyranny holds sway !
Oh, do you hear there in our fields
The roar of those fierce fighting men ?
Who came right here into our midst
To slaughter sons, wives and kin.
To arms, oh citizens !
Form up in serried ranks !
March on, march on !
And drench our fields
With their tainted blood !

[skunk]

And drench our fields
With their tainted blood!
That "sang impur" bit has always worried me. And it gets worse and worse: the later verses are a real orgy of blood-lust, xenophobia and pent-up hatred. Even the French are getting a bit uncomfortable with it.

[Sayhey]

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/france/14juillet/gb/14juill.html

Today is 14th July or Bastille Day as it is sometimes known. A testament that sometimes the people can make a difference....


Bastille Day is a day celebrated the world over. My best wishes on the day to our French brothers and sisters.

skunk, let's not get into comparing national anthems now. :eek:

[mouchoir]

That "sang impur" bit has always worried me. And it gets worse and worse: the later verses are a real orgy of blood-lust, xenophobia and pent-up hatred. Even the French are getting a bit uncomfortable with it.

The orgy of bloodlust is due to the fact it started life as a revolutionary battle song.

The "tainted blood" has nothing to do with xenophobia, it is about their oppressors, who were also French.

But yes, I see your point and it may be a bit outdated in those terms, but more relevant at the time.

[takao]

national anthems...thank god a topic without any connection to elections or war ;) (at least at the moment)

that anthems are discussed is nothing new...look at the anthem of germany...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Lied_der_Deutschen
(still a point of disagreement between austrians and germans ;) )

didn't russia rewrote the old soviet anthem because nobody liked the 'new one' ?

[themadchemist]

While this worked out in the long-run, I still don't know how comfortable I could be celebrating Robespierre. There's just something about indiscriminately beheading people that unnerves me.

[pseudobrit]

There's just something about indiscriminately beheading people that unnerves me.

Ooo *rim shot*

[skunk]

While this worked out in the long-run, I still don't know how comfortable I could be celebrating Robespierre. There's just something about indiscriminately beheading people that unnerves me.
A very good object lesson: he got his in the end, didn't he? What goes around comes around...

[themadchemist]

A very good object lesson: he got his in the end, didn't he? What goes around comes around...

Indeed.

On a side note, I was going to try to tie the going around and coming around in with beheading to arrive at some sort of pun, but after a few seconds, I realized that the result would be too terribly painful to justify the efforts.

[skunk]

Indeed.

On a side note, I was going to try to tie the going around and coming around in with beheading to arrive at some sort of pun, but after a few seconds, I realized that the result would be too terribly painful to justify the efforts.
Well done. Admirable self-restraint. :D

[themadchemist]

Well done. Admirable self-restraint. :D

Eh, it's a gift. ;) :D

[Durandal7]

The "tainted blood" has nothing to do with xenophobia, it is about their oppressors, who were also French.

If you think about it, the French nobles and royalty were probably all incredibly in-bred. In a way they literally had tainted blood :p

[Sayhey]

While this worked out in the long-run, I still don't know how comfortable I could be celebrating Robespierre. There's just something about indiscriminately beheading people that unnerves me.

No picking on the French on their national holiday. Old Robespierre and the guillotine may not be something to celebrate but this surely is:

Declaration of the Right of Man and the Citizen (http://www.historyguide.org/intellect/declaration.html)

The French Revolution had a tremendous impact on the spread of democratic ideals and the end to monarchic rule. Both great things. It would also be worthwhile to remember that we had our own missteps during the early days of our revolution (remember the Alien and Sedition Acts?)

[blackfox]

"Freedom" Fries indeed...

[skunk]

If you think about it, the French nobles and royalty were probably all incredibly in-bred. In a way they literally had tainted blood :p
I think it was actually Marie Antoinette and her counter-revolutionary Austrian friends they were talking (or singing) about. It's a quote from a revolutionary poster.

[skunk]

The French Revolution had a tremendous impact on the spread of democratic ideals and the end to monarchic rule. Both great things. It would also be worthwhile to remember that we had our own missteps during the early days of our revolution (remember the Alien and Sedition Acts?)
I don't know about ending monarchic rule. Europe was pretty heavily populated with monarchs after 1815, including France itself. Napoleon made his brothers into Kings, and he had some very grandiose ideas for himself as well.

[Sayhey]

I don't know about ending monarchic rule. Europe was pretty heavily populated with monarchs after 1815, including France itself. Napoleon made his brothers into Kings, and he had some very grandiose ideas for himself as well.

The French Revolution had its Thermidor. Napoleon was a very complex figure that did indeed betray many of the ideas of the Revolution. How does any of that mean that the ideas of the French Revolution did not hasten the end of monarchic rule? To this day they still have an impact on political thinking. Give the French their due, skunk. At least they don't still have a monarch. Oh, by the way, don't you all in the UK have a bit of unfinished business? :eek: :p

[mouchoir]

The French Revolution had its Thermidor. Napoleon was a very complex figure that did indeed betray many of the ideas of the Revolution. How does any of that mean that the ideas of the French Revolution did not hasten the end of monarchic rule? To this day they still have an impact on political thinking. Give the French their due, skunk. At least they don't still have a monarch. Oh, by the way, don't you all in the UK have a bit of unfinished business? :eek: :p

nah, she's good for the tourists. even though I think technically she's commander of the armed forces, though she will never be allowed to do anything.

that's when there will be unfinished business :eek: ;)

[skunk]

The French Revolution had its Thermidor. Napoleon was a very complex figure that did indeed betray many of the ideas of the Revolution. How does any of that mean that the ideas of the French Revolution did not hasten the end of monarchic rule? To this day they still have an impact on political thinking. Give the French their due, skunk.
Oh, I'll give them their due all right. :cool:
But seriously, you do your own country a disservice: the Universal Declaration of the Rights of Man was largely inspired by the US.

At least they don't still have a monarch. Oh, by the way, don't you all in the UK have a bit of unfinished business? :eek: :p
No, they have Chirac, you have Shrub, Germany has Schroeder, Italy has Berlusconi. I almost prefer to keep Lilibet when I think of the alternatives. If only they weren't such leeches. The Battenburg-Saxe-Coburg-Windsors, I mean.

[Sayhey]

nah, she's good for the tourists. even though I think technically she's commander of the armed forces, though she will never be allowed to do anything.

that's when there will be unfinished business :eek: ;)

LOL, I must admit I've never understood how a great democratic nation like Great Britain sees its way to maintain a hereditary monarch. Isn't the very notion of aristocratic privilege antithetical to democracy? Oh well, to each his own. ;)

[skunk]

LOL, I must admit I've never understood how a great democratic nation like Great Britain sees its way to maintain a hereditary monarch. Isn't the very notion of aristocratic privilege antithetical to democracy? Oh well, to each his own. ;)
LOL! Look at you lot!

Time for another "pot calling kettle black conversation", I think...

[Sayhey]

No, they have Chirac, you have Shrub, Germany has Schroeder, Italy has Berlusconi. I almost prefer to keep Lilibet when I think of the alternatives. If only they weren't such leeches. The Battenburg-Saxe-Coburg-Windsors, I mean.

You do have a point there, skunk!

[Sayhey]

LOL! Look at you lot!

Time for another "pot calling kettle black conversation", I think...

As in the Bush dynasty? Perhaps we both have a little unfinished business? :D

[skunk]

As in the Bush dynasty? Perhaps we both have a little unfinished business? :D
:D