Apple Q3 Conference Call Results

[MacRumors]

Via webcast conference call, Apple stated its financial earnings today over the past quarter:
• $61 Million profit on revenue of $2 Billion
• iMac G5 CONFIRMED by Apple CFO Peter Oppenheimer

[jaison13]

yeah, new imac.

[sinbushar]

The imac is cool too, i guess

[g4cubed]

Via webcast conference call, Apple stated its financial earnings today over the past quarter:
• $61 Million profit on revenue of $2 Billion
• iMac G5 CONFIRMED by Apple CEO Peter Oppenheimer
With that kinda profit why so much for the new displays? Maybe a cheaper imac? :confused:

[kuyu]

G5 Imac. Should sell well this holiday season. Can't wait to see what it looks like.

[lloyd]

Is there a date? Any info on what G5 they're putting in? How fast, etc. Is there a new design to deal with the heat issues? This is promising news!

[MacsRgr8]

This is also a first!

Apple announces a new iMac months before it starts shipping....
Now they confirm a G5 in it....!

Somehow I find this really cool!

[webmatthijs]

YES, this is real good news!!! :D

[3G4N]

With that kinda profit why so much for the new displays? Maybe a cheaper imac? :confused:

Because they are in business to make money.

[Ling]

w00t!

If only they could have gotten this out in time for the back-to-schoolers...

[Savage Henry]

With that kinda profit why so much for the new displays? Maybe a cheaper imac? :confused:

Yeah ... right.

G5 iMac may be able to perform, but me and my superficiality wants to know the looks.... Lemmisee some pics....

[iostream.h]

Were any details revealed about it?

[Sabbath]

To quote from my thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=933400#post933400)


"It was just asked about the cooling issue and he said supply was the main problem. It felt to me that there was a cooling problem that he didn't want to talk about and maybe G5 supply problems lets them disguise this problem.

Update: Another question was asked about iMac components and the answer was the processor is the critical component definetly doesn't sound like the only issue."

Also on G5s "there will be dual 2.5 delays all through the next quarter and 1.8 and 2.0 through July and some of August"

[ThomasJefferson]

Hmm, I have double thoughts about buying a first generation G5 iMac.

[uv23]

Enough with the first post idiocy. It's the #1 annoyance on this board.

Good news about the G5 iMac!

[Grimace]

Hopefully the announcement of the G5 iMac will boost Apple's stock back up a little. :rolleyes:

[Savage Henry]

Reading the news bit http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/jul/14results.html it's good to see the number of CPU units are up on the year by 14%. It gives me that warm, almost nostalgic, feeling inside about Macintosh.

Also the bit about the product line up with "some amazing new additions later this year" ... Does the G5 iMac constitute "new", or is there still something else ....?

[wymer100]

Apple is doomed, Doomed, DOOMED!!!!!! Apple with whither on the vine of computer technology. They make crappy, crash-prone computers that no one wants to buy. Apple will have to switch to x86 chips and make iTunes run only with Windows media next quarter or they will be DOOMED!!!! They can't even turn a profit....

Oh wait....

They just made $61mil this quarter. My bad.

(Sorry. I had to put that in for old times sake.) :p

[jxyama]

wow, this is very un-apple like. announcing that G5 will be in the iMac come sept...

i can't wait to see what the design will look like.

P.S. yeah, quit the FP crap... :rolleyes:

[DWKlink]

Also on G5s "there will be dual 2.5 delays all through the next quarter and 1.8 and 2.0 through July and some of August"

I don't like the sound of that one bit... is that delays with the initial shipment, or just a slow release of them?

Me likes to hope for the latter

[bluefido]

With that kinda profit why so much for the new displays? Maybe a cheaper imac? :confused:

That is a lot of profit, but profit can goes toward a lot of things...i.e. more R&D, dividends, but probably not a cheaper iMac. People pay premium prices for Apple products. Why lower them?

[Mudbug]

Oppenheimer is the CFO, for those of you who asked -
I just typed an E instead of F. :p

[Sabbath]

I don't like the sound of that one bit... is that delays with the initial shipment, or just a slow release of them?

Me likes to hope for the latter

It sounded like it was an on going delay, so I'm thinking the shipping dates given by Apple have taken this into account to at least some extent, although I would bet not perfectly. So I presume it would not overly affect orders already waiting to a but I wouldn't expect stocks of dual 2.5s in stores for quite a while.

[eric_n_dfw]

Hopefully the announcement of the G5 iMac will boost Apple's stock back up a little. :rolleyes:
The statement that they're having delays shipping the PowerMac's will proabaly bring it down some though.

[BigMacGuy]

Oppenheimer is the CFO, for those of you who asked -
I just typed an E instead of F. :p

Yeah, I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed that he was the CFO (Chief Financial Officer, which is why he's mentioned with the quarterly results) instead of the CEO. For those of you who were mentioning this . . . trust me, if Steve were to be replaced it would be huge news, not good news, but huge nonetheless.

[xsnightclub]

So it may be reasonable to infer that the processor speed choices for the iMac will be 1.8 and 2.0 since these are the chips that he specified that IBM was having problems with. And the 2.5 will most likely be needed to fill PM orders since they are experiencing delays through the quarter.

[Lancetx]

Hopefully the announcement of the G5 iMac will boost Apple's stock back up a little. :rolleyes:

Well, it's up over 5% in after hours trading so far. :)

[nagromme]

Great--these iMacs will sell by the truckload no matter WHAT they look like. (AI implies that the iMac will stay all-in-one. As it should... but a headless option would be good too!)

Temporary delays or no, IBM and the Power platform are great for the future.

How did Apple do compared to the profits analysts predicted?

[Sabbath]

The statement that they're having delays shipping the PowerMac's will proabaly bring it down some though.

The whole conference call sounds very positive I wouldn't expect it to slip much if any (obviously it depends on traders prior expectations). It seems demand is way out stripping supply in many areas, I wish I had bought Apple stock when I was thinking about it :(

[aswitcher]

Is there a breakdown of sales figures anywhere? You know, how many G5PBs, iMac/eMacs etc

[xsnightclub]

Great--these iMacs will sell by the truckload no matter WHAT they look like. (AI implies that the iMac will stay all-in-one. As it should... but a headless option would be good too!)

Temporary delays or no, IBM and the Power platform are great for the future.

How did Apple do compared to the profits analysts predicted?

The company's latest results beat the average of Wall Street analysts' estimates by 2 cents a share. On average, they had expected Apple would report earnings for the latest period of 15 cents a share on sales of $1.94 billion, according to a Thomson First Call survey.

[tutubibi]

Is there a breakdown of sales figures anywhere? You know, how many G5PBs, iMac/eMacs etc

http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/040714datasum.pdf

[shawnce]

The statement that they're having delays shipping the PowerMac's will proabaly bring it down some though. They are not delaying the start of shipments of any Power Macs!

They outlined constrained supplies for all PowerMac G5 systems for the remainder of this month and for the 2.5GHz systems for the rest of the next fiscal quarter. Constrained supply will delay some shipments but they will be shipping product including PowerMac 2.5GHz systems. They expect the G5 supply issues to be solved by IBM near the beginning of FQ1 2005 (which starts in Sept. 2004).

[Savage Henry]

Well, it's up over 5% in after hours trading so far. :)

I make it 4.3%, but I wont' quibble; it's still a good jump.

[xsnightclub]

ive Conference Call Notes (most recent first):

- End of Conference Call.
- Over 13,000 retail outlets for iPod. More people want to sell it than Apple has supply to provide.
- As Euro iTunes Music Store launched, Euro iPod sales increased as well.
- Best Buy and Apple work well with iPod sales. No plans to increase working together on CPU sales.
- IBM offering G5 price concessions to Apple due to delays? Apple has no comment.
- iPod Halo Effect? CPU shipments up 14%. 50% of computers Apple selling in retail stores new to Mac or coming back to Mac form "other" platforms.
- Q4 2004 share count "about 400 million."
- Apple will try to do what is necessary to match iPod mini supply with demand. iPod mini supply constrained by 1" drive component.
- Xserve G5s sold 13K units - a quarterly record for Apple.
- Why doesn't Apple repurchase shares? Why does Apple allow "share creep" which dilutes share price for existing shareholders? Apple opted to maintain cash for flexibility and possible acquisitions.
- Airport Express did not ship in Q3, not in Q3 results. Apple's taken over 80K global orders so far.
- Air freight expenses for Q4 2004 primarily relate to new iMac G5.
- Apple not happy with Japan performance. Key market, Apple working to improve.
- Apple Japan: revenue increased 8% when including Japan Retail Store.
- iMac G5 processor "most critical factor" in delay.
- Office Depot authorized to sell online. No plan to extend to retail stores.
- hPod: HP will ship "this summer."
- Apple very please with portable line.
- Given the international iPod mini orders, supply will not match demand in Q4 2004.
- iTunes Music Store generated a small profit.
- Decline in peripherals attributed to transition in display line.
- Demand for iPod mini is "staggering." International orders "unprecedented." Hard to predict when demand will match supply.
- Apple anticipates iPod unit growth sequentially.
- iMac G5 heating issue not a critical factor. Wafer supply is cause of delay.
- Apple has reviewed IBM plans. Numbers look sound.
- IBM told Apple they have placed enormous resources behind fixing issues.
- IBM G5 wafer issues: will iron out by Q1 2005.
- International iPod mini orders started about a week ago. Order numbers are "unprecedented."
- iPod mini demand far exceeds supply.
- No recall or quality issues with iPod lines.
- Education space shows several quarters of growth in higher ed.
- CPU sales strength came from Pro lines. PowerBook up 37% year over year.
- 2004 total revenue should exceed US$8 billion.
- IBM G5 supply issues taken into account for Q4 forecast.
- Forecast for Q4: revenue of $2.1 billion, .16-.17 cents per share.
- Next gen iMac G5 coming in September.
- Cash up to $4.96 billion. Apple is a debt-free company.
- Japan up 2% year over year.
- US up 23% year over year.
- Euro revenue up 47% year over year.
- 16% educational revenue growth year over year.
- Osaka, Japan, London stores coming this year.
- Apple Retail Stores now total 80 with $270 million revenue
- iTunes Music Store holds over 70% share of legal downloads with over 100 million songs sold.
- 860K iPods (incl. iPod mini) units sold.
- Apple is extremely unhappy. IBM has told Apple Q1 2005 will mark end of CPU issues.
- Next gen. iMac G5 impacted by IBM shortages.
- PowerMac G5 shortages expected due to IBM CPU difficulties in Q4.
- iBook 240K, iMac 220K, 416K desktops
- Highest quarterly unit shipment of Macs
- P.O. - we're very pleased. Highest Q3 in eight years.
- Apple CEO Peter Oppenheimer (P.O.) introduced.
- Awaiting start of call.

[Sabbath]

So it may be reasonable to infer that the processor speed choices for the iMac will be 1.8 and 2.0 since these are the chips that he specified that IBM was having problems with. And the 2.5 will most likely be needed to fill PM orders since they are experiencing delays through the quarter.

I'd concur it seems there would be chips available for the iMac if it was speced below 1.8. It also sounds as if they are starting to stockpile already for the iMac hence 1.8 (and 2.0?) PM delays.

[rtdunham]

With that kinda profit why so much for the new displays? Maybe a cheaper imac? :confused:

confused by flawed logic: you wouldn't expect the price of an iMac or 20" display to be upped to $10k because the company had had a loss in a quarter, would you?

peace
terry

[klaus]

So basically, everyone who had their order in very quickly, like in the first week, could have it relatively quickly, say beginning of august max, and the rest would have to wait as more supply of the comes available.

They also said the 1.8 and 2.0 processors are facing supply issues, and these are currently used in the rev B powermacs, and perhaps in the new iMac revision. So this should clarify the fact that the whole powermac lineup now uses 970fx processors @ 90nm, and no more processors are being made on the 130 nm technique, as there were no supply issues with those.


Let's hope I'm in the first batch of 2.5 shipments to europe, ordered on the 13th, 4 days after introduction.

[rtdunham]

Is there a new design to deal with the heat issues?

I was very disappointed by the analysts' reluctance to ask followup questions, and by their willingness to have their questions ignored.

Twice analysts asked if there were problems IN ADDITION TO the chip shortage from IBM; one or both asked if there were also related heat probs with the design. In each instance the response was that the chip shortage was "the primary" problem. In journalism we call that a "non-answer answer," and it was very disappointing. They asked the right question, they just settled for being ignored. Right by half.

peace
terry

[3.1416]

- iBook 240K, iMac 220K, 416K desktops
And they actually broke down the "iMac" category this time, it was something like 180k eMacs and 60k FP iMacs. That's why cancelling the iMac didn't concern them very much.

[Sabon]

These may have nothing to do with each other. But I saw a website that said Apple has confirmed rumors of an iPod update. The iPod will be smaller than the current iPod mini but will have drives up to 60GB and will replace the full size iPods not the minis.

Also see that hPods are coming out this summer. Is it possible that the hPods will be the current "big" iPods when Apple moves to the smaller ones?

[MacsRgr8]

ive Conference Call Notes (most recent first):

< alot! >

- Awaiting start of call.

Tnx, xsnightclub!

Very interesting.

[manu chao]

And they actually broke down the "iMac" category this time, it was something like 180k eMacs and 60k FP iMacs. That's why cancelling the iMac didn't concern them very much.

That's a bombshell. Only 60K FP iMacs, heck they even sold 13K Xserves.

[tmornini]

That is a lot of profit, but profit can goes toward a lot of things...i.e. more R&D, dividends, but probably not a cheaper iMac. People pay premium prices for Apple products. Why lower them?

That is NOT a lot of profit!

It's a lot of money, but it's a terrible profit margin. Less than 4%.

Successful companies shoot for 15% profit margins. In this case that would yield about $300 million in profits on sales of $2 billion.

Microsoft has had profits of over 60%, on sales far higher, though it's been a while.

Additionally, Apple makes a LOT of revenue on its cash supply. At 3%, they'd make nearly $40 million per quarter on interest! That means they may have generated 'just' $27 million of profit on operations. With revenue of $2 billion, that sucks frankly!

I think this is good news for Apple. Growing profits are great, growing units are great. Apple has financial wizards running the company, and I have great faith in them. What they have done in the last 5 years given the hand they were dealt is nothing short of spectacular.

In discussing how low the profit margins are, I'm not bashing Apple, just showing people that they're not (yet) raking in excessive profits (i.e. this is no time to be suggesting a lowering of prices due to excessive profits, other reasons might be fair game).

I firmly believe they're headed in the right direction, are making the right decisions, are well managed, etc. With significant growth in units, the profit numbers will certainly be improved dramatically. :-)

[pkradd]

Funny how people think because a company is making money that they
should reduce prices. Apple makes money as long as their margins stay where they are and even go up. They depend on vendors supplying them with components at prices they contract for. Sometimes prices fall, sometimes they rise. We know that Apple does reduce prices after a product is out for a while - a common business practice in any industry. First you gotta pay for the R&D, manufacturing, distributing, advertising, promotion, salaries, outside vendors, etc. The price of a product is not just the price of its parts. Apple cannot compete with Dell or HP on prices. They cannot sell enough CPUs to drop to that level - ever. M$ is too entrenched. The war was over a long time ago and M$ won. Accept that. Now, small battles can go Apple's way.

[ThomasJefferson]

This is exciting. I love a good rumor.

Good job Mudbug.

[Sabon]

Apple is a HARDWARE company.
M$ is a SOFTWARE company.
There are a LOT more costs involved in hardware than software.

Everything else I agree with ... mostly.

[barnett25]

Wait a second... this says "Office Depot authorized to sell online. No plan to extend to retail stores". But in an email described here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79476) they say:

"Thank you for contacting Office Depot, in response to your inquiry, we
have just acquired Apple as an authorized dealer, so you should be
seeing the Apple products in our retail stores as well in the coming
months. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to
contact. Thank you for contacting Office Depot, have a great day!"

I'm confused, which is it?

:confused:

[xsnightclub]

Apple is a HARDWARE company.
M$ is a SOFTWARE company.
There are a LOT more costs involved in hardware than software.

Everything else I agree with ... mostly.

Didn't Bill Gates once state that M$ makes more money off each Mac sold than Apple :mad:

That is truly a shame if it is true

[tmornini]

Apple is a HARDWARE company.
M$ is a SOFTWARE company.
There are a LOT more costs involved in hardware than software.

Everything else I agree with ... mostly.

I didn't mean to imply that Apple would or should ever reach that point.

I should have used another example. I was just trying to make it clear
that Apple's current profits weren't anywhere near excessive with
respect to other businesses.

Excellent clarification. Thanks!

P.S. Tell me what you *don't* agree with. I'd like to know!

[themadchemist]

This is good news, indeed! Q3 usually isn't great for Apple because of the timing of product announcements. With Apple making new announcements (Esp. smaller ones) more rolling, I think revenue might fluctuate quarter to quarter a little bit less.

I guess Apple's share price will go up, for all those who were complaining about the drop after the iMac debacle. However, the problems with the iMac might very well cost Apple in the Q4 as will be evident in the earnings report three months from now.

[Johnstkr]

In other news: Oppenheimer "steved" after reveiling details of the new imac

[g4cubed]

Because they are in business to make money.
Duh! I know that much. And for alot of years it wasn't that profitable of a company.
I'm from the view point that you make a little less profit, but in return you sell more. By selling more you still make the same amount of profit and have a happy customer base.
I don't want to start another debate about pc vs. mac costs, but that's one big reason they have such a big part of the market. It's just getting tougher and tougher for an average person to afford to switch to a mac or upgrade their exsisting mac. I just purchased a new 2.5GHz (ship date end July, yeah) :D but would have purchased a new display if the total package was a little cheaper. :(

[spikymohawks]

:) :) :) :) this is apples great comeback!!! buy stock...
thnx mudbug

[xsnightclub]

In other news: Oppenheimer "steved" after reveiling details of the new imac

Follow-up: Oppenheimer rehired then meritorously promoted and given substantial bonus for creating the huge increase in stock price during after hours trading.

Steve even richer now, Maybe he can "steve" Gates someday in Fortune 500 list

[Fender2112]

Hopefully the announcement of the G5 iMac will boost Apple's stock back up a little. :rolleyes:

Ditto. I just bought a few shares yesterday in antisipation of this report. :D

[Stella]

I'm surprised, I didn't think Q3 results would be too good.

Apple really need to do something about iPod.. having only one supplier for HD is a real bottleneck. Just imagine how many iPods could be sold if there was no supply problems. This could piss potential customers off.. and buy another portable player.

13K XServes sold Q3.. impressive... considering Apple haven't been in the server market for long ( since Q1 2003 ).

I'm not surprised iBooks sold well.. since Apple put the G4's in at 1Ghz, they are a really good buy.

[xsnightclub]

Don't forget this interesting byte from the confernece call:

- Why doesn't Apple repurchase shares? Why does Apple allow "share creep" which dilutes share price for existing shareholders? Apple opted to maintain cash for flexibility and possible acquisitions.


It is a happy Mac Day :) G5 iMac, Can't wait!

[socbyset]

Their justification for the cash hoard has long centered on having it for possible acquisitions, I believe.

Don't forget this interesting byte from the confernece call:

- Why doesn't Apple repurchase shares? Why does Apple allow "share creep" which dilutes share price for existing shareholders? Apple opted to maintain cash for flexibility and possible acquisitions.


It is a happy Mac Day :) G5 iMac, Can't wait!

[Sabon]

Their profit margin is lower than we would like because of R&D. Don't get me wrong. I don't want them to cut one penny from R&D or they would die like before Steve jobs.

Unless their sales go up a LOT they won't ever come close to 15% profits. Since they sell a lot less desktops than Dell. Their profit after R&D (which is HUGE compared to Dell's and it shows) will always be lower. Steve is fine with that and so am I. Better products is more important as long as they make just enough profits to continue to pad their coffers after R&D.

[virividox]

this is great news apple is one computer company who is doing well this year and lets hope they can keep inovating to keep ahead of the curve

[Doctor Q]

"16% educational revenue growth year over year"

I wonder how their market share percentage (which can of course be measured in multiple ways) has changed. ? ? ?

[Sabon]

"16% educational revenue growth year over year"

I wonder how their market share percentage (which can of course be measured in multiple ways) has changed. ? ? ?

The following is just an example and I'm trying to keep it simple. Ok? Thanks.

Let's say Apple sold 50 computers out of 200 that all schools bought. Let's say that schools bought 2,000 computers the next year and apple sold 200. Yes we with that Apple sold all of the new computers that schools bought. But their increase would be 200% even if their market share declined.

[Marlon_JBT]

My PowerBook is getting a new friend, iMac G5. I don't care what it looks like, but it better have a decent price tag. ;) Thanks, Steve.

[macridah]

With the G5 iMac announcement, I will definitely hold off and buy that instead of a dual 2GHz. I just wanted to upgrade my iBook, and I knew a PowerMac might be an overkill for me, but I didn't want to get another G4.

Those are great quarterly numbers. I wonder how much apple gained in global PC market share.

[ChrisH3677]

Yet ANOTHER slap in the face for all those prophets of doom who said "who's going to buy an iPod mini?".

Apple sure do seem to know what they're doing! Thank God some of us here aren't running Apple! (myself included!)

:D :D :D :D :D :p :p :p :p

[jaison13]

i don't think they need to reinvent the imac. i have one and like the design. maybe some minor changes but it is supposed to be an all in one consumer computer. main thing i'd like is a BIG hard drive option.

20" monitor
2ghz G5
8x superdrive
2 gigs of ram
250GB hard drive

and a new 60GB metal ipod

[Stella]

Just a brief life line.

6 months time, Apple will be bankrupt.
:D

Yet ANOTHER slap in the face for all those prophets of doom who said "who's going to buy an iPod mini?".

Apple sure do seem to know what they're doing! Thank God some of us here aren't running Apple! (myself included!)

:D :D :D :D :D :p :p :p :p

[mpw]

ive Conference Call Notes (most recent first):

- Air freight expenses for Q4 2004 primarily relate to new iMac G5.


Am I right in saying that Q4 ends September?

If so the fact that Apple are attributing air freight costs primarily to the new G5 iMac surgests they’ve been moving or are expecting to be moving large numbers within 3 weeks of the expected unveiling.

Wouldn’t this show they’re confident supply issues will be ‘sorted’ by then?
:)

[xsnightclub]

"Apple remains a debt-free company with $4.96 billion in cash." from conference call

"Google has filed their IPO. Seeking $2.7B" Morgan Stanley and Credit Suisse First Boston.

With Apples cash on hand, they could buy Google twice. :o

[rtdunham]

These may have nothing to do with each other. But I saw a website that said Apple has confirmed rumors of an iPod update. The iPod will be smaller than the current iPod mini...Also see that hPods are coming out this summer. Is it possible that the hPods will be the current "big" iPods when Apple moves to the smaller ones?

your conclusion is probably right but I don't think you cited the info accurately. I see nothing in the other site's story on new iPods that says they're smaller than the mini, just smaller & sleeker than the existing iPod. Is that the way others read it?

terry

[xsnightclub]

Am I right in saying that Q4 ends September?

If so the fact that Apple are attributing air freight costs primarily to the new G5 iMac surgests they’ve been moving or are expecting to be moving large numbers within 3 weeks of the expected unveiling.

Wouldn’t this show they’re confident supply issues will be ‘sorted’ by then?
:)

I beleive you are correct with the end date of Q4. That would put the substantial freight costs in Aug/Sept/

[Sabon]

your conclusion is probably right but I don't think you cited the info accurately. I see nothing in the other site's story on new iPods that says they're smaller than the mini, just smaller & sleeker than the existing iPod. Is that the way others read it?

terry

You are correct Terry. My mistake.

[mpw]

I beleive you are correct with the end date of Q4. That would put the substantial freight costs in Aug/Sept/

Then maybe the 'delay' in launch is a stockpiling exercise so these pages aren't full of 'Why release a product with nothing to ship for weeks' posts for the first month after launch. I hope so 'cause i want mine delivered on the 1st September!

[Trekkie]

With that kinda profit why so much for the new displays? Maybe a cheaper imac? :confused:

You aren't in business are you?

[sinisterdesign]

admittedly, i didn't want to hear that there's a continued chip shortage, nor that mini production can't keep up, but at the same time, it's because people are BUYING the stuff that Apple/IBM can't keep up.

but the confirmation of a G5 iMac makes me happy. i was kinda worried that they were going to try and pawn off a redesigned G4 iMac, which would just royally hack off a vast majority of the Mac-faithful.

now just give me a sweet, swwet new iPod & you'll have one more happy camper...

[fartheststar]

"Apple remains a debt-free company with $4.96 billion in cash." from conference call

"Google has filed their IPO. Seeking $2.7B" Morgan Stanley and Credit Suisse First Boston.

With Apples cash on hand, they could buy Google twice. :o

So, they leave money around for possible aquisitions. Who do you think (other than google) would Apple be interested in aquiring? That's a LOT of money to spend. What do you all think? :confused:

[frankly]

With that kinda profit why so much for the new displays? Maybe a cheaper imac? :confused:

Well, let's see math genius....

Apple sold 1,736,000 units when you combine iPods and CPUs.
They made $61,000,000 profit.

If you divide the $61,000,000 by the 1,736,000 units that leaves a net profit of $35 per unit. So, are you suggesting that they lower the price of each unit by an average of $50 and then lose money for the quarter????

Frank

[dongmin]

This is also a first!

Apple announces a new iMac months before it starts shipping....
Now they confirm a G5 in it....!

Somehow I find this really cool!It's weird that Apple is basically announcing a new product but not taking orders for it. Why not? Why not announce it in mid-July and take orders for six weeks? They could cash in on the back-to-school season by announcing it in the next couple of weeks. But no, they're holding off until September. That suggests that Apple is kissing goodbye the education market for the iMacs. A September release (meaning not fully available until October or November) is more appropriate for the holiday season.


This suggests that the new iMac will be an expensive, pro-sumer machine. Even with a 'low-end' 1.8 ghz, I don't expect a 17" iMac to be less than $1500, probably more in the $1700-1800 for the low end. The 17" G4 iMac currently goes for $1800. Apple will probably keep that price point. (I'm assuming that Apple will drop the 15" iMacs altogether.)

If that is the case, then Apple will have no desktops between the $999 of the eMacs and $1799 of the iMac. Problematic, if you ask me. But maybe Apple has something else to fill the void. I'd vote for the return of the G4 Cube in the $999-$1499 range.

[mpw]

[QUOTE=dongmin]It's weird that Apple is basically announcing a new product but not taking orders for it. Why not? Why not announce it in mid-July and take orders for six weeks? They could cash in on the back-to-school season by announcing it in the next couple of weeks. But no, they're holding off until September. That suggests that Apple is kissing goodbye the education market for the iMacs. [B]A September release (meaning not fully available until October or November)[\B] is more appropriate for the holiday season.


My previous post:
Then maybe the 'delay' in launch is a stockpiling exercise so these pages aren't full of 'Why release a product with nothing to ship for weeks' posts for the first month after launch. I hope so 'cause i want mine delivered on the 1st September!

[dongmin]

My previous post:
Then maybe the 'delay' in launch is a stockpiling exercise so these pages aren't full of 'Why release a product with nothing to ship for weeks' posts for the first month after launch. I hope so 'cause i want mine delivered on the 1st September!This still doesn't settle the question of WHY NOT announce now and take order. Most people go back to school in mid- to late-August. Most people will have made their purchases by the time the iMacs are announced in September (or Aug. 31 as the rumors suggest). Joe Public does not keep track of Apple conference calls. They don't know that a G5 iMac is coming. If they knew, I'd say a lot of them would hold off buying a computer. Better still, they would pre-order their new G5 iMacs and expect shipment in mid-September.

I think Apple KNOWS that the iMac is not a big seller for the education market. It's the iBooks and eMacs that people by. If people want more horsepower, they go to either the PowerBooks or Power Macs. The iMac appeals more to the style-freaks who don't mind shelling out big bucks for a mediocre performing machine. Students are way more budget-conscious.

[frankly]

Yet ANOTHER slap in the face for all those prophets of doom who said "who's going to buy an iPod mini?".

Apple sure do seem to know what they're doing! Thank God some of us here aren't running Apple! (myself included!)

:D :D :D :D :D :p :p :p :p

Yep, and I was one of those who defended the iPod mini and its price until I was blue in the face. Vindication is sweet!!!!!

Frank

[Lancetx]

I make it 4.3%, but I wont' quibble; it's still a good jump.

Umm, actually it was up 7.07%, not to quibble or anything. ;)

31.67 +2.09 (+7.07%)

[xsnightclub]

So, they leave money around for possible aquisitions. Who do you think (other than google) would Apple be interested in aquiring? That's a LOT of money to spend. What do you all think? :confused:

PepsiCo has a market value of $5,292,000.00, Apple could buy Pepsi and get back at them for the lousy distribution during the iTunes promo.

[w00tmaster]

They are not delaying the start of shipments of any Power Macs!

They outlined constrained supplies for all PowerMac G5 systems for the remainder of this month and for the 2.5GHz systems for the rest of the next fiscal quarter. Constrained supply will delay some shipments but they will be shipping product including PowerMac 2.5GHz systems. They expect the G5 supply issues to be solved by IBM near the beginning of FQ1 2005 (which starts in Sept. 2004).

They are delaying shipping power macs, I know of 2 people(myself included) who ordered pms 2 weeks ago, it says they won't ship till the end of July...which makes me think that Apple is kind of hesistant to release the new iMac, they already cannot get enough G5s, let alone if they have a new line with them.

[frankly]

- iBook 240K, iMac 220K, 416K desktops

Am I missing something? How many PowerBooks were sold???

Frank

[xsnightclub]

So, they leave money around for possible aquisitions. Who do you think (other than google) would Apple be interested in aquiring? That's a LOT of money to spend. What do you all think? :confused:

Or Apple could save tons of $$$ building Apple Stores by buying Radio Shack and converting them. That way there would be an Apple Store within 5 miles of %90 of americans.

[mj_1903]

"Apple remains a debt-free company with $4.96 billion in cash." from conference call

"Google has filed their IPO. Seeking $2.7B" Morgan Stanley and Credit Suisse First Boston.

With Apples cash on hand, they could buy Google twice. :o

No way. Google are seeking to raise $2.7 billion but they are not selling all their stock. I am guessing they will only sell 10-20% of their stock, which means Google will be valued at double Apple's worth, at minimum

[mj_1903]

Am I missing something? How many PowerBooks were sold???

Frank

200K if my memory serves me correctly.

[jouster]

confused by flawed logic: you wouldn't expect the price of an iMac or 20" display to be upped to $10k because the company had had a loss in a quarter, would you?

peace
terry

Agreed. $61 mil on $2 B sales is what? 3% give or take? Hardly a gigantic profit.

Wouldn't it make more sense to complain about the $4B or so sitting unused in the bank?

[Doctor Q]

Apple could buy Pepsi.Steve running Pepsi? That would be an ironic twist! Would he announce Pepsi upgrades and new flavors every few months?

[frankly]

200K if my memory serves me correctly.

As my post pointed out, the conference call said:

iBook 240K, iMac 220K, 416K desktops

It didn't say anything about PowerBooks. The numbers above add up to the 876,000 CPUs sold. Perhaps the first number was meant to be all notebooks. I don't know but according to the conference call they didn't say how many PowerBooks were sold.

Frank

[edgar_is_good]

Well, let's see math genius....

Apple sold 1,736,000 units when you combine iPods and CPUs.
They made $61,000,000 profit.

If you divide the $61,000,000 by the 1,736,000 units that leaves a net profit of $35 per unit. So, are you suggesting that they lower the price of each unit by an average of $50 and then lose money for the quarter????

Frank

"People always ask me - how do you make money? You're a change bank, after all. You only make change.

The answer is simple: Volume."

- Kevin Nealon

[puckhead193]

Did they just said G5 imac confermed? So i G5 will be coming out, but the question is when....
I guess that's good news, but what about us mobile users!...I want a G5 pb book sept. for school

[jouster]

PepsiCo has a market value of $5,292,000.00, Apple could buy Pepsi and get back at them for the lousy distribution during the iTunes promo.

Uh.....you need to check your attachement.

Pepsico's cap is $5,292,000,000.00

What, did you really think Pepsi is worth five million bucks? They probably do three or four times that in daily sales.

Also, a lot of people here seem to think that companies sell for their market cap value. This not accurate.

Edit: They do nine billion per annum. Buying price would reflect this, not their cap.

[~Shard~]

Excellent news all around. Who votes negative on these articles? :rolleyes: Apple's future is looking bright - and I can't wait to see the new G5 iMacs! :cool:

Upping that marketshare should would be nice though...

[xsnightclub]

Uh.....you need to check your attachement.

Pepsico's cap is $5,292,000,000.00

What, did you really think Pepsi is worth five million bucks? They probably do three or four times that in daily sales.

Also, a lot of people here seem to think that companies sell for their market cap value. This not accurate.

Edit: They do nine billion per annum. Buying price would reflect this, not their cap.

I was purely joking, sorry if you couldn't tell because I din't put a :D .
No matter how much it is worth, do you really think a computer company should buy a soft drink company. Lay off the caffeine. Try a diet Pepsi-Free

[jouster]

I was purely joking, sorry if you couldn't tell because I din't put a :D .
No matter how much it is worth, do you really think a computer company should buy a soft drink company. Lay off the caffeine. Try a diet Pepsi-Free

Well, I didn't think you were serious about them buying Pepsi (at least I sure hope you weren't), but I do think you misread the cap value.

Whatever....Apple has way too much cash, and they need to buy something. The market doesn't love huge cash piles as much as people think. They tend to distort earnings (by accumulating interest), and they tend to make companies susceptible to takeovers. Apple needs to get that more of that cash working in its core business areas.

Thanks for the soda advice; I'd rather drink mouthwash than diet Pepsi-free....



:D

[Stella]

WHEN is common knowledge... you just have to look at Apple's iMac page.


When? September.

Did they just said G5 imac confermed? So i G5 will be coming out, but the question is when...

[CyberB0b]

Anyone know how much did the iBook recall cost them?

[gopher]

Steve running Pepsi? That would be an ironic twist! Would he announce Pepsi upgrades and new flavors every few months?

For those who don't catch the irony of this, it was former CEO Scully who ousted Steve Jobs. He was CEO of Pepsi, and then became CEO of Apple where he ousted Jobs.

[vitaboy]

One thing is you have to be careful how you compare one business' profitability with another. Apple is rather unique in that they are both a hardware and software company. In terms of percentage of their annual revenue, they spend more on R&D than practically any company in the computer business, and that is a major drag on profits.

Apple made a choice a couple years ago. They could have continued to go the Amelio route by cutting expenses to the bone and praying that Mac customers will keep coming back. We saw some truly awful products during this period - anyone remember the Performas? The exploding PowerBooks?

Jobs came back, and he said, "Have you no pride? We're going to INNOVATE our way into growth and profitability" and that's exactly what Apple has done. Sure, that means less quartly profits, but hell, I'd rather take the kind of innovation that leads to long-term financial health than something that looks good in a press release.

Plus, profitability is just a piece of the whole picture.


Apple has nearly $5 billion in cash, up from $4 billion a year ago, thanks to smart cash-flow management. In comparison, Dell has $5.26 billion in cash, and they have 5 times more revenue than Apple. This is especially amazing when you consider Apple's total revenue for 2004 will probably be a little north of $8 billion. I say this leaves Apple a cash horde for a rainy day or a timely acquisition.
Revenues grew by 30% year-over-year. Some companies are shrinking but manage to report record profits through the use of deep cost cutting and layoffs. Apple is growing at a healthy clip, and that's very important.
Gross margins were slightly improved to about 28%. This is a very, very healthy figure and it is the actual profit Apple makes on sales, not the 4% "profitability" figure that was thrown around earlier. Naturally, the gross margin profits are reduced by expenses such as advertising and R&D, resulting in a net profit of $61 million for the quarter, but it's the gross profit that allows Apple to continue to pay for all that innovation, not the net profit.


Anyway, my point is that profitability isn't the most important figure in the financial health of a company. As a AAPL shareholder, I think Peter Oppenheimer is making great decisions about Apple's finances, and I'm very happy with the latest results despite the iMac G5 debacle.

Just my $0.02! :)



I didn't mean to imply that Apple would or should ever reach that point.

I should have used another example. I was just trying to make it clear
that Apple's current profits weren't anywhere near excessive with
respect to other businesses.

Excellent clarification. Thanks!

P.S. Tell me what you *don't* agree with. I'd like to know!

[jouster]

...Apple is rather unique in that they are both a hardware and software company....

Unique? Hardly: IBM and Sun are HW and SW companies.

[MacinDoc]

It's weird that Apple is basically announcing a new product but not taking orders for it. Why not? Why not announce it in mid-July and take orders for six weeks? They could cash in on the back-to-school season by announcing it in the next couple of weeks. But no, they're holding off until September. That suggests that Apple is kissing goodbye the education market for the iMacs. A September release (meaning not fully available until October or November) is more appropriate for the holiday season.


This suggests that the new iMac will be an expensive, pro-sumer machine. Even with a 'low-end' 1.8 ghz, I don't expect a 17" iMac to be less than $1500, probably more in the $1700-1800 for the low end. The 17" G4 iMac currently goes for $1800. Apple will probably keep that price point. (I'm assuming that Apple will drop the 15" iMacs altogether.)

If that is the case, then Apple will have no desktops between the $999 of the eMacs and $1799 of the iMac. Problematic, if you ask me. But maybe Apple has something else to fill the void. I'd vote for the return of the G4 Cube in the $999-$1499 range.
I agree with you on the likely pricing of the G5 iMacs, but I'm hoping the 1.8 to 2 GHz specs people are expecting aren't overly optimistic, considering the challenge of dissipating heat from a PPC 970FX in a stylish prosumer Apple box...:rolleyes:

[Steven1621]

Is there a date? Any info on what G5 they're putting in? How fast, etc. Is there a new design to deal with the heat issues? This is promising news!

no doubt mac expo in paris. the aniversary of the original imac...

[vitaboy]

It is a lot of money, and a question was brought up at the conference call. Why doesn't Apple use some of that money to buy back shares so as to boost the stock price?

Apple's answer was that it wants the money around just in case. It could be an acquisition. It could also be for outside investment. Apple at one time was a major shareholder of ARM, and would regularly sell of millions of ARM shares per quarter, allowing Apple to record artificially large profits during those quarters.

But just because Apple has $5 billion doesn't mean you'd want to spend it all. Having that much cash simply gives you a lot of flexibility.

Besides, as interest rates rise, Apple will make proportionally more income from its growing cash pile. Some analysts have criticized this type of practice by saying Apple isn't a credit union, but given that Apple isn't building up its cash horde at the expense of R&D and product development, I think it's okay.

It's pretty clear Apple is more interested in small, innovative companies in terms of acquisitions, namely because there's a much more immediate payoff. These types of smart acquisitions have led directly to products like Final Cut Pro, iTunes, GarageBand, and Motion. I seriously doubt Apple would spend more than a few hundreds million to acquire anyone, since swallowing a big company has issues all its own (like dealing with clashing corporate cultures, merging corp charts, eliminating redundancies, etc.). Hey, the last big acquisition Apple made was for NeXT for $400 million, and that directly resulted in all the top execs losing their jobs (thank God). ;)

But who knows, maybe Apple is building up enough cash to be able to buy out Adobe at some point in the future, if necessary! Let's just see how committed Adobe is to the Mac! (Thus, Jobs' comment during WWDC that he wants to see Adobe adopt CoreImage in the next version of Photoshop may actually have been a threat, not simple enthusiasm!)

So, they leave money around for possible aquisitions. Who do you think (other than google) would Apple be interested in aquiring? That's a LOT of money to spend. What do you all think? :confused:

[jouster]

But who knows, maybe Apple is building up enough cash to be able to buy out Adobe at some point in the future, if necessary! Let's just see how committed Adobe is to the Mac!

Buying Adobe would be a huge undertaking. They do $1.6 B/yr and are capped at $10B...

http://finance.lycos.com/qc/stocks/quotes.aspx?symbols=ADBE

By some measures, they're at least as big as Apple....not that it couldn't be done, but it seems unlikely.

OTOH, how much would teh Steve like to announce that PhotoShop was MAc only.....

[windowsblowsass]

wow, this is very un-apple like. announcing that G5 will be in the iMac come sept...

i can't wait to see what the design will look like.

P.S. yeah, quit the FP crap... :rolleyes:
hmm... apple is acting very un appple like or are they?

apple is known to hold a grudge and when ibms delays messed up xserve releases then powermac releases apple mustve been angry.

so when ibm says uhh look you know those g5 imacs that were going to blow everyone away welll uhh we dont have the chips apple gets revenge by announcing the imac early then knowing the question will inevisdebly be asked set up to blame ibm publically

[vitaboy]

Unique? Hardly: IBM and Sun are HW and SW companies.

Which is why I said "rather unique," which in the vernacular can be inferred to mean, "almost one of the only ones."

But I would rather not quibble about usage. My point was that few companies do what Apple does. Sure, IBM and Sun do both hardware and software, but neither one is a consumer-oriented company. Neither is fast becoming a media powerhouse, either. So, for all intent and purpose, Apple IS unique in that no other company does all of what Apple does, and it IS one of the few companies that does major development in both hardware and software. Rather unique, I still say.
:D

[jouster]

Which is why I said "rather unique," which in the vernacular can be inferred to mean, "almost one of the only ones."

But I would rather not quibble about usage. My point was that few companies do what Apple does. Sure, IBM and Sun do both hardware and software, but neither one is a consumer-oriented company. Neither is fast becoming a media powerhouse, either. So, for all intent and purpose, Apple IS unique in that no other company does all of what Apple does, and it IS one of the few companies that does major development in both hardware and software. Rather unique, I still say.
:D

Heh, I bow to that explanation!!

[vitaboy]

Buying Adobe would be a huge undertaking. They do $1.6 B/yr and are capped at $10B...

http://finance.lycos.com/qc/stocks/quotes.aspx?symbols=ADBE

By some measures, they're at least as big as Apple....not that it couldn't be done, but it seems unlikely.

OTOH, how much would teh Steve like to announce that PhotoShop was MAc only.....

Yes, of course I don't seriously take the idea that Apple would/could buy out Adobe. It was meant as a humorous explanation for why Apple keeps on building that cash pile - $4 billion last year, $5 billion today, who knows, $6 billion sometime next year! Maybe Steve secretly is competing with Bill to see whose company has a bigger bank account!

(hint: I know how much Microsoft has in the bank, so please, I'm aware of how ridiculous the preceding idea is! :D)

[MikeLaRiviere]

Apple "announces" the new iMac in a "normal" way. It also owns up to a setback in launching its best-known product. Does Apple, or more importantly, do we, finally realize that Apple is turning into a mature business?

Mike LaRiviere

P.S. I think this maturity will end up benefitting the user greatly.

[macnews]

Just have to put in a "holy cow pie batman!". G5 imac, can't wait to see the specs. Now if we just had some leaked info on the design......

[frankly]

Gross margins were slightly improved to about 28%. This is a very, very healthy figure and it is the actual profit Apple makes on sales, not the 4% "profitability" figure that was thrown around earlier. Naturally, the gross margin profits are reduced by expenses such as advertising and R&D, resulting in a net profit of $61 million for the quarter, but it's the gross profit that allows Apple to continue to pay for all that innovation, not the net profit.

A lot of what you said made sense but you are missing something with the analysis above. The net profit actually comes from taking the gross profit and subtracting a lot more than just advertising and R&D. The following items also help make the difference between gross and net profits:

1) Employee salaries
2) Real estate costs
3) Utilities
4) Benefits
5) R&D
6) Advertising

Later, Frank

[vitaboy]

Just have to put in a "holy cow pie batman!". G5 imac, can't wait to see the specs. Now if we just had some leaked info on the design......

My prediction is that it'll have a 1.6 GHz G5. It's a leap up from the now-obsoleted iMac's 1.25 Ghz G5, but not too big of a leap (makes sense if you look at it from a marketing perspective). Also, at 1.6 GHz, there is no way it could cannibalize PowerMac sales.

Still, a 1.6 Ghz G5 would represent a very, very nice performance boost for the consumer line, particularly since the CPU would be running on an 800 Mhz bus.

As to how it will look, it's hard to imagine, but only because I think the current iMac design is so elegant. It would almost seem like a shame were Apple to revert to a more conventional 20th Anniversary Mac-type design, or something along the lines of a more refined Gateway Profile 4.

[vitaboy]

A lot of what you said made sense but you are missing something with the analysis above. The net profit actually comes from taking the gross profit and subtracting a lot more than just advertising and R&D. The following items also help make the difference between gross and net profits:

1) Employee salaries
2) Real estate costs
3) Utilities
4) Benefits
5) R&D
6) Advertising

Later, Frank

Ummm, I did say, "expenses such as advertising and R&D...."

But yes, which leads to the point that it's probably way more expensive for Apple to do business simply because they are located in California, which is infamous for stratospheric worker's comp costs, energy prices, and real estate value (meaning you have to pay employees a lot more on average so they can actually afford to live here). That adds up pretty fast when you have some 10k employees, whereas I'm sure Dell's cost of doing business is significantly lower on a per capita basis by being headquartered in Austin.

[Wonder Boy]

This is also a first!

Apple announces a new iMac months before it starts shipping....
Now they confirm a G5 in it....!

Somehow I find this really cool!

just wait. ives is gonna drop the ball. for some reason, i dont think the flat panel with a cpu slapped on the back is going to look good at all. plus, though i can't remember where i saw it, but it has been done before.

[frankly]

Ummm, I did say, "expenses such as advertising and R&D...."

But yes, which leads to the point that it's probably way more expensive for Apple to do business simply because they are located in California, which is infamous for stratospheric worker's comp costs, energy prices, and real estate value (meaning you have to pay employees a lot more on average so they can actually afford to live here). That adds up pretty fast when you have some 10k employees, whereas I'm sure Dell's cost of doing business is significantly lower on a per capita basis by being headquartered in Austin.

The reason for my response is because in your original post you acted as though gross profits were a more real profit than the net profits. If you ever ran a business you would know that this is simply untrue. The definition of profit is as follows:

The return received on a business undertaking after all operating expenses have been met.

This is talking about the NET profit. It is fine to discuss gross profits when you are deciding if a business is being run in an efficient manner but they are NOT the profits of the company.

Later, Frank

[DavidCar]

Any chance for a 23" G5 iMac with some sort of HDTV option?

[dongmin]

Apple "announces" the new iMac in a "normal" way. It also owns up to a setback in launching its best-known product. Does Apple, or more importantly, do we, finally realize that Apple is turning into a mature business?

Mike LaRiviere

P.S. I think this maturity will end up benefitting the user greatly.I wouldn't count on this announcement being a normal practice for Apple. They goofed; they're out of stock on a particular product and the replacement is months away. It's not so much an announcement as it is an admission of poor management/scheduling. Apple does not announce products simply because they want to get rid of the old stock before the new comes in. In this case, the old stock was basically depleted, so no harm in 'announcing' the next arrival. A special case.

[szark]

Uh.....you need to check your attachement.

Pepsico's cap is $5,292,000,000.00

What, did you really think Pepsi is worth five million bucks? They probably do three or four times that in daily sales.

Also, a lot of people here seem to think that companies sell for their market cap value. This not accurate.

Edit: They do nine billion per annum. Buying price would reflect this, not their cap.

I realize you guys are joking around, but Pepsi Bottling Group (PBG) is not PepsiCo (PEP), it's just a bottling company!

PepsiCo has a market cap of 91,170,000,000.00, and has nothing to fear from Apple. ;)


[/offtopic]


Great results Apple, and keep those great products coming!


Also, another reason for hanging on to their cash reserves might be an (unlikely but possible) contingency for dealing with the lawsuits currently filed against them (Apple Records, The Open Group). No, they wouldn't need anything close to the whole amount, but it is a possible concern.

[dongmin]

just wait. ives is gonna drop the ball. for some reason, i dont think the flat panel with a cpu slapped on the back is going to look good at all. plus, though i can't remember where i saw it, but it has been done before.The idea is not to simply slap the cpu on the back on the display. The idea is to make the cpu disappear altogether, to reduce the computer to the actual components that a user interacts with: display, keyboard, and mouse. Imagine opening up the box of the iMac and taking out just one thin rectangular box with just a single cable for power. The keyboard and mouse are wireless. Networking is wireless via Airport Express. No set up required. All you need to do is simply mount the box on the wall (or set it on a desktop), connect the power cable, and hit the power button. No hassle. No clutter. The ultimate in minimalist computing.

Of course, how well Apple pulls this off depends entirely on how thin Apple can make a G5-based system. (This should provide some hints on the feasibility of a G5 PowerBook.) I assume Apple has an elegant solution if they decided to go this route. Think of the new cinema displays but slightly thicker.

Any chance for a 23" G5 iMac with some sort of HDTV option?I'd say there is more than a good chance. The 23" HDTV iMac will be the ultimate in upscale digital hubs. It would be amazing if Apple build in a HDTV tuner, but I doubt it given their history. Perhaps, it'll include optical digital stereo out so that we can play DVDs on it in surround sound.

[ClimbingTheLog]

"Apple remains a debt-free company with $4.96 billion in cash." from conference call

"Google has filed their IPO. Seeking $2.7B" Morgan Stanley and Credit Suisse First Boston.

With Apples cash on hand, they could buy Google twice. :o

Google is IPO'ing a small number of their shares, a third maybe? (Don't remember the exact number).

Apple has stock too, of course.

[appleface]

how is the new imac going to be more of a digital hub for the average, mac-buying consumer than the last imac? the G5 imac can use airport express to power speakers and to print, obviously; but what new feature will apple add to enhance its authority as a digital hub?

[Wonder Boy]

The idea is not to simply slap the cpu on the back on the display. The idea is to make the cpu disappear altogether, to reduce the computer to the actual components that a user interacts with: display, keyboard, and mouse. Imagine opening up the box of the iMac and taking out just one thin rectangular box with just a single cable for power. The keyboard and mouse are wireless. Networking is wireless via Airport Express. No set up required. All you need to do is simply mount the box on the wall (or set it on a desktop), connect the power cable, and hit the power button. No hassle. No clutter. The ultimate in minimalist computing.

Of course, how well Apple pulls this off depends entirely on how thin Apple can make a G5-based system. (This should provide some hints on the feasibility of a G5 PowerBook.) I assume Apple has an elegant solution if they decided to go this route. Think of the new cinema displays but slightly thicker.

hmm. a wall mounted model may change my mind.

[tmornini]

Their profit margin is lower than we would like because of R&D. Don't get me wrong. I don't want them to cut one penny from R&D or they would die like before Steve jobs.

Unless their sales go up a LOT they won't ever come close to 15% profits. Since they sell a lot less desktops than Dell. Their profit after R&D (which is HUGE compared to Dell's and it shows) will always be lower. Steve is fine with that and so am I. Better products is more important as long as they make just enough profits to continue to pad their coffers after R&D.

Good answer! I agree 100%. However, I think that their profit margins will be at 15% sooner than you'd guess.

Apple profit is set to SOAR with increasing market share.

[appleface]

Mr. Jobs said today, "We've got a strong product portfolio, with some amazing new additions coming later this year."

With airport express supporting peripheral speakers and the new "all widescreen HD" line-up... hmm. do you smell what the jobs is cooking?

on another note (or maybe not), does anyone else think that the airport express seems like it is meant to be used for more than (wireless internet and) external speakers and a shared printer. it just seems so random: speakers and a printer.

edit:
actually, it finally makes sense after reading dongmin's post #122.

[VIIGemina]

"Apple's iTunes Music Store turned in $73 million in revenue for the quarter, and also generated a small profit for the company, according to CFO Peter Oppenheimer, though he did not elaborate." - From MacCentral

If Apple had sold 70 million songs as of April 28th on their first anniversary, then that means that Apple only sold some 30 million songs in the quarter. How did that translate to $73 million in revenue? That's quite a bit more than 99¢ a song.

Any ideas?

[dongmin]

Quite an amazing feat, considering how much people were complaining about the underpowered G4. It just goes to show you that when it comes to portables, people don't care that much about the perceived performance gap between laptops and desktops.

What's surprising is that the average revenue generated by a PowerBook ($1977) is higher than a Power Mac ($1919). Apple must still be selling a lot of the old G4 Power Macs.

The G4 still has some life in it...

[appleface]

will the imac have a cable tv hook-up? is it possible for the usb or firewire ports to work as inputs to the new displays? could a "cable" input be converted to a usb input?

[iMeowbot]

Apple made a choice a couple years ago. They could have continued to go the Amelio route by cutting expenses to the bone and praying that Mac customers will keep coming back. We saw some truly awful products during this period - anyone remember the Performas? The exploding PowerBooks?
Sorry, this bit annoys me. It wasn't Amelio who nearly killed Apple, that was Spindler. [Sculley gets a bad rap for becoming complacent after things got too comfortable, but it was under his watch that Apple became the huge successful company that people remember; Jobs was long gone by then.]

Amelio only had the CEO chair for a few months before doing exactly what the company needed to survive: took a chunk of that cash pile everyone keeps questioning and bought NeXT, then did the administrator thing for another year until the current management team was ready to roll. That's Amelio's specialty, turning around sinking companies using whatever works, even if it seems weird. He even lent his personal money to Apple (and left the company half a million poorer than when he walked in) to keep the company afloat for the interim.

Apple was in real danger of being liquidated during this period, falling to either Sun or Oracle, both who would surely have ruined it for good. Amelio prevented that from happening.

Yes, Jobs paints a different picture and trashes the guy, but Jobs is legendary for trashing just about everyone.

[ClimbingTheLog]

hmm. a wall mounted model may change my mind.

All the new Apple displays can take any VESA standard wall-mount arm with the proper plate ($30?).

Apple isn't in the "stuff you screw into studs" business, nor should they be. They did exactly the right thing by going standard.

There's no reason to think the iMacs will be different, so you should get your wall-mount iMac real soon now.

[ClimbingTheLog]

If Apple had sold 70 million songs as of April 28th on their first anniversary, then that means that Apple only sold some 30 million songs in the quarter. How did that translate to $73 million in revenue? That's quite a bit more than 99¢ a song.

Any ideas?

I suspect that random albums don't just appear on the front page of the iTunes music store, there's some payola involved.

What I want to know is if iTunes marketing comes out of that revenue or if Apple's general marketing fund eats it. iPod + iTunes spends A LOT of money on air time.

Yet Apple fails to understand that advertising a Mac would be useful...

[ClimbingTheLog]

Yes, Jobs paints a different picture and trashes the guy, but Jobs is legendary for trashing just about everyone.

Yeah, I was there for Jobs's keynote when the G3 was brand new. (For the youngins in the crowd, the G3 absolutely smoked the older Macs. It was a very significant improvement.)

He cranked his reality distortion field to Warp 11 for it, despite the fact that it was an Amilio project. Then he trashed Amilio. Dick.

[frankly]

Sorry, this bit annoys me. It wasn't Amelio who nearly killed Apple, that was Spindler. [Sculley gets a bad rap for becoming complacent after things got too comfortable, but it was under his watch that Apple became the huge successful company that people remember; Jobs was long gone by then.]

Amelio only had the CEO chair for a few months before doing exactly what the company needed to survive: took a chunk of that cash pile everyone keeps questioning and bought NeXT, then did the administrator thing for another year until the current management team was ready to roll. That's Amelio's specialty, turning around sinking companies using whatever works, even if it seems weird. He even lent his personal money to Apple (and left the company half a million poorer than when he walked in) to keep the company afloat for the interim.

Apple was in real danger of being liquidated during this period, falling to either Sun or Oracle, both who would surely have ruined it for good. Amelio prevented that from happening.

Yes, Jobs paints a different picture and trashes the guy, but Jobs is legendary for trashing just about everyone.

I'm not saying that Spindler did a good job but you are nuts to think that Amelio was a good CEO. He was in charge during two of Apple's worst quarterly losses ever. 1996 Q2 and 1997 Q2 they lost over $700,000,000. Also, for you to act as though he was only in charge for a few months is wrong as well. He was at the helm for a year before they purchased Next.

People in this forum are complaining that a $60,000,000 profit is not enough. He presided over almost $2,000,000,000 in losses. That is unbelievable.

Frank

[ClimbingTheLog]

how is the new imac going to be more of a digital hub for the average, mac-buying consumer than the last imac? the G5 imac can use airport express to power speakers and to print, obviously; but what new feature will apple add to enhance its authority as a digital hub?

What new features did they add to the current iMac? It was more about form and function. The 'hub' happens mostly in software.

That said this thing needs FW800 to handle HDTV and should have Bluetooth and 802.11g built-in.

If I were Apple I'd lean a bit more on the personal lifestyle hub, bluetooth phone sync, web/e-mail, and of course the old standby music, photos and home movies. Security as a timesaver, not as a geeky thing.

[fossicker]

If Apple had sold 70 million songs as of April 28th on their first anniversary, then that means that Apple only sold some 30 million songs in the quarter. How did that translate to $73 million in revenue? That's quite a bit more than 99¢ a song.

Any ideas?

One idea: iTMS also sells audio books. $40 mil would translate to ~2 million books, which seems a bit high, but the Clinton book did come out in June and they probably sold a few of those... Still, that seems like a lot of books.

[frankly]

Yeah, I was there for Jobs's keynote when the G3 was brand new. (For the youngins in the crowd, the G3 absolutely smoked the older Macs. It was a very significant improvement.)

He cranked his reality distortion field to Warp 11 for it, despite the fact that it was an Amilio project. Then he trashed Amilio. Dick.

Really, Steve Jobs is the dick? Not you guys?

Maybe you want Amelio back so we would still be waiting for Copland???

Give us all a break.

Frank

[frankly]

One idea: iTMS also sells audio books. $40 mil would translate to ~2 million books, which seems a bit high, but the Clinton book did come out in June and they probably sold a few of those... Still, that seems like a lot of books.

That is a good point that I don't think any of us had thought of.

Frank

[SuperChuck]

The highest quarterly shipment of Macs, huh?

Sounds to me like the iPod+iTunes racket has become Apple's "gateway drug."

Let's face it, as far as mindblowing improvents in Apple's computer lines go, this quarter (and the one before, and the one before) was pretty lame - all the focus and hype was iPod related.

I was a bit skeptical that PC iPod people would become Mac people...but I don't see another likely explanation.

[Timothy]

I'm surprised that more of you haven't commented on the ITMS profit. I think that is fabulous! I was sure that ITMS was a loss-leader, and that it would take a few years for them to turn a profit on it. That they already are is amazing, and we haven't seen nearly the potential of the store yet.

Way to Go Apple. From someone who has weathered every storm, turned aside every comment from my lame PC friends, and stuck with you even during the hard times, congrats!

:-)

[iMeowbot]

I'm not saying that Spindler did a good job but you are nuts to think that Amelio was a good CEO. He was in charge during two of Apple's worst quarterly losses ever. 1996 Q2 and 1997 Q2 they lost over $700,000,000. Also, for you to act as though he was only in charge for a few months is wrong as well. He was at the helm for a year before they purchased Next.
Huh? Amelio was hired in February 1996, and the Next acquisition was completed by December.

The July-September quarter in 1996 wasn't too shabby, Apple did manage a $25 million profit. That, in combination with those losses, isn't bad at all for a company that had spent the last several years foundering on dead-end paths for new technology. Those losses reflected writing off those inherited lost causes. Apple had nothing new to sell, and that stuff couldn't be produced from thin air. Platform alternatives (Be, MS, NeXT are known) had to be evaluated, and due diligence had to be carried out before a technology acquisition could be made final. That it was accomplished as quickly as it was is actually pretty damned impressive.

Then of course are the hardware products that saved Apple's butt, the G3 and iMac. Those projects weren't begun under Jobs' watch (and indeed, rumor mongers were babbling about how the Columbus project -- which was released under the name iMac -- had been an Amelio mistake he killed off), but he wasn't shy about taking full credit for them.
People in this forum are complaining that a $60,000,000 profit is not enough. He presided over almost $2,000,000,000 in losses. That is unbelievable.
More unbelievable is the notion that a company that size -- at its darkest, sales were still in the billions -- could be turned around completely within a few quarters.

[dongmin]

The highest quarterly shipment of Macs, huh?

Sounds to me like the iPod+iTunes racket has become Apple's "gateway drug."

Let's face it, as far as mindblowing improvents in Apple's computer lines go, this quarter (and the one before, and the one before) was pretty lame - all the focus and hype was iPod related.What's amazing, though, is that PowerBooks, which arguably is the oldest in the lineup, is what's keeping Apple in the black. Apple sold 220,000 PBs for $435 mil. Compare that to the iPods, 860,000 units for $249 mil.

What's surprising is that iPods avg. out to $290 per unit which means that it's the iPod minis that are really driving sales. Apple needs to introduce some new cool features, like Home on iPod and video-out, to push more fo the higher-end iPods.

[Doctor Q]

Mr. Jobs said today, "We've got a strong product portfolio, with some amazing new additions coming later this year."

With airport express supporting peripheral speakers and the new "all widescreen HD" line-up... hmm. do you smell what the jobs is cooking?I hope it's non-widescreen monitors. Sure, widescreen is nice when I'm editing video, but I spend a lot more time looking at web pages and working on portrait-orientation documents. Steve's monitors are sideways for most of my needs. My choices are to buy some other company's monitors or to waste money paying for an Apple monitor on which I use only the left side or the right side (to get a useful aspect ratio) for the main work I do.

[dongmin]

One idea: iTMS also sells audio books. $40 mil would translate to ~2 million books, which seems a bit high, but the Clinton book did come out in June and they probably sold a few of those... Still, that seems like a lot of books.Another idea: gift certificates, gift cards, and allowances that haven't been fully redeemed yet.

[ITR 81]

"Apple's iTunes Music Store turned in $73 million in revenue for the quarter, and also generated a small profit for the company, according to CFO Peter Oppenheimer, though he did not elaborate." - From MacCentral

If Apple had sold 70 million songs as of April 28th on their first anniversary, then that means that Apple only sold some 30 million songs in the quarter. How did that translate to $73 million in revenue? That's quite a bit more than 99¢ a song.

Any ideas?

Audio books? I doubt they are counted as DL'ed songs.
Plus, they cost way more then your typical audio album.

[Savage Henry]

Umm, actually it was up 7.07%, not to quibble or anything. ;)

31.67 +2.09 (+7.07%)


Damn my monkey source !!!!!

I ran a couple of other checks and the after trade figure varied quite dramatically from one to another .. which should teach me.... but generally doesn't ! ;)

[Wardofsky]

Agh! I'm so sick of this.

Customers get pissed off because they say "How come you didn't tell us that they are upgrading the |whatever| right after I bought one?" when Apple upgrades something.

So now Apple has told everyone early. Solution to the above problem?
Yes, but now no one is buying iMacs at all!

[Savage Henry]

I'm surprised that more of you haven't commented on the ITMS profit. I think that is fabulous! I was sure that ITMS was a loss-leader, and that it would take a few years for them to turn a profit on it. That they already are is amazing, and we haven't seen nearly the potential of the store yet.

Way to Go Apple. From someone who has weathered every storm, turned aside every comment from my lame PC friends, and stuck with you even during the hard times, congrats!

:-)


Personally, when the download numbers soared and Jobs said doubted if there was any money to be made off iTunes as it is all in the iPod, I wondered whether that was gentle flim-flam to keep wannabees out of the market..

[painimies]

Agh! I'm so sick of this.
So now Apple has told everyone early. Solution to the above problem?
Yes, but now no one is buying iMacs at all!

Not that there would be any iMacs left to buy soon, though.

[broken_keyboard]

They shouldn't rag on IBM too much - they're a h*ll of a lot better than Moto.

[vitaboy]

Sorry, this bit annoys me. It wasn't Amelio who nearly killed Apple, that was Spindler. [Sculley gets a bad rap for becoming complacent after things got too comfortable, but it was under his watch that Apple became the huge successful company that people remember; Jobs was long gone by then.]

Actually, I don't totally disagree with you. In fact, I agree that it was Michael "The Diesel" Spindler that probably damaged Apple the most. I was perhaps too harsh with Amelio, as he was brought in as a turnaround artist to reverse Apple's declining fortunes.

But while Amelio had a lot of good intentions, he just didn't execute. The MacOS absolutely stagnated under his watch, and it got so bad that Apple had to go shopping to buy a new OS. Ironically, it was Amelio who was responsible for Apple making the decision to buy NeXT, and without NeXT technology and talent, Apple would probably be dead and buried by now, and there would be no Mac OS X. :eek:

Amelio was, in my opinion, a case of good intentions gone awry. Anyone remember his opera-length, rambling keynote from MacWorld? It was like watching the coach desperately trying in vain to pep up his football team, which is down by 54 points with just 2 minutes left in the game. I think everyone was weirded out by that deperate spectacle.

Whatever faults Jobs may have as a manager and leader, even his critics have to admit that he is very effective at what he does. Jobs is the one who coined the phrase "real artists ship" way back when, and under Amelio, Apple just wasn't shipping anything worth buying. Sure, it takes time to turn a $10 billion sinking boat around, but hey, after Jobs came back, he immediately chucked deadend programs left and right (like the Newton) and created a crash development program to produce the iMac from scratch in about a year (and we know how much an impact the original bondi iMac had in turning around Apple's fortunes). The iMac wasn't just about creating a cool iconic computer that would get people to start buying again, it was as much a challenge issued by Jobs to have Apple prove to ITSELF that it still had what it took.

Heck, even the iPod took, what, just 6 months to develop from conception to shipping (even if Apple had to license certain technologies)! In the entire 25 year history of Apple, Jobs has been the only leader who has managed to squeeze that much creativity and productivity out of Apple engineers, on a consistent basis. It's no wonder that he inspires the loyalty and confidence that he does.

[vitaboy]

Another idea: gift certificates, gift cards, and allowances that haven't been fully redeemed yet.

Good point.

One thing that should be clarified. It may be $0.99 per song, but it's $9.99 per album. Albums typically have 12-18 songs, so the cost per song can be as low as $0.55.

Apple says that about 40% of iTMS sales are actually album sales, so for every 100 songs sold, about 40 of them were from whole album sales. Doing some rough calculations:

40 album song is =~ 3 albums = 3 * $9.99 = $29.97 in revenue
60 single song downloads = 60 * 0.99 = $59.40 in revenue

so roughly, Apple pulls in about $89.37 in revenue for every 100 songs sold, NOT $99.00.

So if Apple sold 30 million songs during the quarter, we can estimate that songs contributed only $26.81 million in revenue.

So where did the other $46 million come from?

As dongmin suggested, a lot could have been from gift cards and allowances. Audio books were also mentioned, and there are a lot of books that cost $20 or more. Someone suggested payola, but I think Jobs is too smart for that.

In fact, during one conference call, he derided payola specifically when it was brought up by as a question by essentially saying, "Look at our track record. Have we ever sold anything on the Mac desktop? Look at what our Windows competitors have done" [referring to the standard practice of PC companies littering the Windows desktop with icons in exchange for payment]

In fact, taking payola would undermine Apple's bargaining power with the labels greatly so early in the game. Apple would, more or less, be the music industry's bitch by taking bribes before the service has matured. By not taking payola and growing iTMS on its own merits, Apple ends up wielding a huge amount of power over the labels. I suspect the labels are simultaneously salivating with greed and quaking in their boots because of iTMS - salivating because they get more royalties per song sold via iTMS than via CD (Jobs stated as much in public), but quaking in their boots at the notion that within a few years, iTMS could actually be 10% of ALL legitimate music sales worldwide, and unlike CDs, Apple controls the distribution system 100%.

Anyway, I suspect books are a big contributor - the first quarter Audible was integrated into iTMS, Jobs stated Apple had sold more than 50,000. If you assume an average price (this is a total guess) of $15, that's $7.5 million right there. By now, maybe Apple is selling 100,000 Audible books per quarter, which could add up to $15 million in revenue.

The rest might be unspent allowance or pre-paid iTunes cards sold at Target.

Still, $73 million in revenue for iTMS is pretty damn impressive. It's hard to believe the service is a little more than a year old!

[vitaboy]

The reason for my response is because in your original post you acted as though gross profits were a more real profit than the net profits.

Not at all. I was trying to address the misconception floating around that since Apple reported $61 million in profit on $2 billion revenue, that its "profit margin" was a measly 3%.

Apple clearly makes way more than 3% on a dual 2.5 GHz PowerMac G5, just as it clearly makes a lot more than 3% profit even on a low-cost eMac. It seems to me that people were confusing net profit with gross margins, and that's what I meant by referring to the "real" profit Apple makes on an iBook, PowerBook, or iPod, i.e. Apple makes plenty of profit from each Mac sold.

[Colonel Panik]

The iMac appeals more to the style-freaks who don't mind shelling out big bucks for a mediocre performing machine. Students are way more budget-conscious.

The iMac also appeals to those who consider that buying a PowerMac and a seperate screen are too expensive, but don't want to be cramped on a laptop. Really, the screen and the machine are good value when taken together. Not the fastest machine, but then if you were in the market for speed, you'd be plonking down your money for a PowerMac, wouldn't you. And everything Apple makes is stylish.

[Macmaniac]

All I can say is that if this new iMac does not have an upgradable video card I am not buying, I am not going to get burned again by a video card that can't be upgraded, playing games on a 700mhz G3 iMac is a pain to say the least. Come on Apple please make the new iMac at least semi expandable, give it an upgradable video card, and at least 1 free PCI slot.

[djdarlek]

All I can say is that if this new iMac does not have an upgradable video card I am not buying, I am not going to get burned again by a video card that can't be upgraded, playing games on a 700mhz G3 iMac is a pain to say the least. Come on Apple please make the new iMac at least semi expandable, give it an upgradable video card, and at least 1 free PCI slot.

BUY A BLOODY XBOX! I love my iMac g4, 17"... it has helped me generate at least £4,000 this year freelancing, kept me in touch with my friends, it found me my WIFE, it looks stylish, it holds all my tunes, its got a gorgeous flat panel screen, it never crashes!

BUT it runs ALL games pants. any game you throw at it. It can barely run SOF2 at 640x480 with everything turned down... but thats why i've got a BIG ****-OFF PC rammed full of ram and a ATI radeon 9800 pro... Macs are not specifically aimed at games players.. although I agree that this needs to be sorted out in the future for Apple's market share to increase.. but the new iMac should still be an all in one, wonder machine. No bloody PCI ************!

I'm sure that G5 Powermacs would run all the latest games very well, don't get me wrong, and this is probably going to bode well for Mac gamers in the future, but at the moment, if you're big into games and want a **** load of choice, get a pc and quit expecting the new g5 to have a headless body, pci slots, and a radeon 9800 pro as standard.

[Windowlicker]

Fair enough :rolleyes:

this is really the first time I remember Apple giving out information about new products before they're released. but I guess it's better in this case because now people are mad because there's no imacs available "HEY WHAT'S TAKING SO LONG.. DON'T MAKE YOUR DADDY GIVE YOU A LESSON, BOY!". telling them it'll take some more time because they're getting much more powerful computers they'll be nice and wait.

[sonyrules]

Agreed. $61 mil on $2 B sales is what? 3% give or take? Hardly a gigantic profit.

Wouldn't it make more sense to complain about the $4B or so sitting unused in the bank?

That 3% is after all expenses, R&D and all that stuff, Its not a great number, But its not in the red either. Since allot of apples moeny does go for R&D

[Daveway]

Does anybody have an idea or has there been any recent calculations on how much market share Apple has now after a healthy quarter? 3%>>

[sonyrules]

Well, let's see math genius....

Apple sold 1,736,000 units when you combine iPods and CPUs.
They made $61,000,000 profit.

If you divide the $61,000,000 by the 1,736,000 units that leaves a net profit of $35 per unit. So, are you suggesting that they lower the price of each unit by an average of $50 and then lose money for the quarter????

Frank

Your also forgetting software sales also.... which is very high margin to start with

[dieselg4]

That is NOT a lot of profit!

It's a lot of money, but it's a terrible profit margin. Less than 4%.

Successful companies shoot for 15% profit margins. In this case that would yield about $300 million in profits on sales of $2 billion.

Microsoft has had profits of over 60%, on sales far higher, though it's been a while.


Microsoft manufactures/sells software, which once you make one copy, is pretty easy to replicate and sell. Apple sells hardware, the bulk of which is manufacture by other companies, and develops software for them for nothing. (with the exception of Final Cut, etc.)

Dell or Gateway would be more comparable by % of profit from revenue, but they don't produce their own OS.

[ChrisH3677]

I just wanna clarify something here.. Microsoft DO make hardware. Sure they're only peripherals, but it's hardware all the same.

And personally... I reckon they're better at hardware than software. It's kinda ironic really... I trust MS hardware 100%. Yet I could never trust their software! :D :p

[Stella]

BUY A BLOODY XBOX!

Consoles suck. High priced games compared to PC.

Playing 3rd person shooter games using a controller is a no go for me, at least.

Keyboard + mouse.

As for apple profit.

I'd rather see apple plough $$$$$$$ into R&D rather than Apple producing larger profits. Without a large R&D budget, apple cannot keep on producing high quality goods for us to all to drool over ( OR whine at :-) ).

[gotohamish]

Via webcast conference call, Apple stated its financial earnings today over the past quarter:
• $61 Million profit on revenue of $2 Billion
• iMac G5 CONFIRMED by Apple CFO Peter Oppenheimer

Surely the iMac wouldn't go G5 before the Powerbook?!

Paris might be a big launch after all. Heh heh heh.

[sinisterdesign]

Yet ANOTHER slap in the face for all those prophets of doom who said "who's going to buy an iPod mini?".

i'll admit, i was one of those. at that price point, i didn't think there was any way that they would sell as well as they have. i figured there would be an initial spike for the new!cool! factor, but then people would lose interest. Apple can't keep the things on the shelf.

that's why i'm a designer and not the person making decisions...

[~Shard~]

Surely the iMac wouldn't go G5 before the Powerbook?!

Paris might be a big launch after all. Heh heh heh.

Of course it will. The re-engineergin efforts required to shoehorn the G5 into a laptop and keep it cool are far greater and more complicated than putting a G5 in an iMac. There are still great challenges around putting the G5 in the iMac as well, but not nearly as much as putting a hot server-class chip like that into a portable machine and not melting the user's lap.

[Mac-Xpert]

I just wanna clarify something here.. Microsoft DO make hardware. Sure they're only peripherals, but it's hardware all the same.

And personally... I reckon they're better at hardware than software. It's kinda ironic really... I trust MS hardware 100%. Yet I could never trust their software! :D :pI agree with you. Although I wouldn’t want to be found dead anywhere near a Windows PC :rolleyes: :p I have to admit I quite like my Xbox. (yes I know it sounds bad :p ) But frankly I don't see why anyone still borders with playing games on a PC (or Mac) because your PC will be almost outdated the moment you buy it. You have to practically update your computer every year to play the most recent games at an acceptable level. At the same time you can buy something like a Xbox at half the price and use it for years with all new releases playing great (and still getting better too). It even can be used as a reasonable DVD player as well. It plays dual-layer DVD’s without any interruption when the next layer is accessed (unlike many hardware DVD players).

Still when it comes to using serious (pro)software, It's Mac-only for me. I find using Windows an extremely inefficient and annoying event.

[sinisterdesign]

It's kinda ironic really... I trust MS hardware 100%. Yet I could never trust their software! :D :p

right there with you. i LOVE M$ mice and i've bought quite a few (thanks to steve's insanely bullheaded notion that we only have one finger with which to operate a computer). you KNOW at this point the only reason they don't release a 2/3/4/5 button mouse is that steve would have to admit he should have done it years ago.

i'm sorry to go off on a rant here, but i just CAN'T GET OVER the fact that he thinks it's a "failure of software design" to need more than one button on a mouse (i was there when he said that exact quote). that's like saying, "well, that keyboard should only have one key. why on earth would you need more than that??!?" it's an INPUT DEVICE, steve. let me INPUT more than a 'click'. oooooo, or maybe a DOUBLE-click. as far as that goes, is it a failure of software design to need to click something TWICE?

steve, i'm glad apple turned a profit, the mini's sales kick butt much to my surprise, but please, please get over this notion that we only need to control our dual-processor-liquid-cooled-gigabyte-RAM-wi-fi-aluminum BEAST with one paltry button.

[fossicker]

Anyway, I suspect books are a big contributor - the first quarter Audible was integrated into iTMS, Jobs stated Apple had sold more than 50,000. If you assume an average price (this is a total guess) of $15, that's $7.5 million right there. By now, maybe Apple is selling 100,000 Audible books per quarter, which could add up to $15 million in revenue.


That would be $1.5 million.

It would be interesting to know just how many book sales there were last quarter. I'm guessing it was higher than normal due to the Clinton book and the David Sedaris book (the latter is currently selling more than the former), both of which came out last quarter.

Also, the european iTMS also sell audiobooks, although just as with music what's available varies by country, e.g. the Sedaris and Clinton books are available in France and Germany, but not in the UK -- it's probably trickier getting the rights for the UK since US books often have UK publishers. Not a big market for publishing books in English in non english speaking countries.

Interestingly, the German store has a few German language titles.

[WinX]

Agreed. $61 mil on $2 B sales is what? 3% give or take? Hardly a gigantic profit.

Wouldn't it make more sense to complain about the $4B or so sitting unused in the bank?

Are you NUTS ? :eek:
Do you realize the hidden contribution the interest revenue on that $4.5B hoard has made to that measly $61M net quarterly profit ?
Do you really want to see headlines like "Apple quarterly profit figures down 40%" ?

[CmdrLaForge]

Apple is doomed, Doomed, DOOMED!!!!!! Apple with whither on the vine of computer technology. They make crappy, crash-prone computers that no one wants to buy. Apple will have to switch to x86 chips and make iTunes run only with Windows media next quarter or they will be DOOMED!!!! They can't even turn a profit....
p

Yes, Doom is coming to the Mac. The only question is when.

[CmdrLaForge]

Great--these iMacs will sell by the truckload no matter WHAT they look like. (AI implies that the iMac will stay all-in-one. As it should... but a headless option would be good too!)


If I had the choice between $2000 20" all in one iMac or $1000 cube + $1000 LCD I would definitly go for the cube. Even if the all in one iMac looks cooler. And so would many many people including many many switchers. I would prefer buying every 2 years a new cube instead of every 4 years a new iMac.

[nightcap965]

One thing that should be clarified. It may be $0.99 per song, but it's $9.99 per album. Albums typically have 12-18 songs, so the cost per song can be as low as $0.55.


A song is a poor unit of measurement. How many "songs" are there in Beethoven or Mahler's 9th Symphony?

I know that pop music is iTunes' best seller, but it's not the only thing they sell. I buy audiobooks, opera, and symphonies, which tend to be more expensive and less easily divided into neat three minute Clear-Channel chunks.

[CmdrLaForge]

These may have nothing to do with each other. But I saw a website that said Apple has confirmed rumors of an iPod update. The iPod will be smaller than the current iPod mini but will have drives up to 60GB and will replace the full size iPods not the minis.


That is really really interesting. Can you tell us which site it was ?

Cheers :D

[whooleytoo]

A song is a poor unit of measurement. How many "songs" are there in Beethoven or Mahler's 9th Symphony?

I know that pop music is iTunes' best seller, but it's not the only thing they sell. I buy audiobooks, opera, and symphonies, which tend to be more expensive and less easily divided into neat three minute Clear-Channel chunks.

That's true. Per-song pricing is just the best of poor options. Paying per-minute or any such alternative would make the store more confusing, and it's the simplicity of the store and it's pricing structure that's a key reason for it's growth.

[rtdunham]

heat's vented thru the specially designed & camouflaged tubes on this 20th anniversary mac design.

http://homepage.mac.com/rtdunham/PhotoAlbum2.html

[MegaSignal]

steve, i'm glad apple turned a profit, the mini's sales kick butt much to my surprise, but please, please get over this notion that we only need to control our dual-processor-liquid-cooled-gigabyte-RAM-wi-fi-aluminum BEAST with one paltry button.

Well said!

'Nuff said!

Aluminum scroll wheel NOW...!

[rtdunham]

...how well Apple pulls this off depends entirely on how thin Apple can make a G5-based system. (This should provide some hints on the feasibility of a G5 PowerBook.).

how then do the G5 x serves fit into this line of reasoning?

terry

[rtdunham]

...steve, please, please get over this notion that we only need to control our dual-processor-liquid-cooled-gigabyte-RAM-wi-fi-aluminum BEAST with one paltry button.

I can't imagine anyone making the point more eloquently! Right on.

digressing, people are rightly complimenting the accomplishments with the iPod mini, and there are rumors of an improved iPod to be announced next month. But i'd STILL like to see Apple supplement the product line with a solid state memory flashPod. It would be free of skips, less expensive, and that's important: Most companies try to sustain an entry level product and then groom customers to more expensive lines as their finances change (BMW, to use an iPod-related example, or Mercedes, both of which have lower-end models now than ten years ago, for that very reason). Not everyone has 5,000 songs, and not everyone who does has to have all of them with them all the time. A lot of music could be put on a 256MB flash device, or the next couple hours' worth of an audio book, or the three hour radio broadcast you missed a few days ago but recorded with Griffin's soon to be released (vaporware since a year ago) radio Shark.

Thinking a 4GB miniPod has to be the bottom end doesn't make sense, any more than thinking digital cameras had to come with that much memory. the beauty of firewire and usb and modern apple software is that moving pix or music from a computer to a peripheral is so easily done.

end of rant.

terry

[themacman]

Since we know the Imac is going to have a G5, whats the Chance PB G5 in December

[craigiest]

Apple is kissing goodbye the education market for the iMacs.

There is no iMac education market. For the most part, schools cannot afford to pay an extra $20,000 just to get flat screens in a computer lab. Either they will buy an affordable eMac, or spend the extra money on PowerMacs and use existing monitors.

College students are not interested in buying desktop machines. Most dorm rooms include a PC, so if kids want a computer of their own, they want a laptop to use with campus-wide WiFi.

[psgibbs]

Most dorm rooms include a PC, so if kids want a computer of their own, they want a laptop to use with campus-wide WiFi.

What college did you go to where dorm rooms included a PC? I agree though, on campus here its either power macs or notebooks almost invariably, except for a few people who do have iMacs. But there are no school owned iMacs - and our campus is very Mac friendly.

[davetrow1997]

Alls I can say is that most people posting here know even less about finance than I do. For the love of God, if you don't understand financial statements, go learn from somebody knowledgeable like Ken Lay.

Really, though, not to beat a dead horse, gross margins are calculated before certain expenses and net are calculated after.

Financial statements are pretty bogus, anyway... 3% interest on 4 billion dollars is 30 million per quarter before tax and companies have all sorts of legitimate schemes for deferring expenses and revenues to make the numbers look pretty. Better to look at margins and units shipped...

Dell's net profit margin for the last quarter was 6.3% and spent a MEASLY 1.2% of sales on R&D.
Apple's net profit margin was 3%, but they typically spend nearly 10% of sales on R&D. In fact, apple spent MORE money on R&D than Dell desite sales being only 1/6th of Dell's.

[the_mole1314]

What college did you go to where dorm rooms included a PC? I agree though, on campus here its either power macs or notebooks almost invariably, except for a few people who do have iMacs. But there are no school owned iMacs - and our campus is very Mac friendly.

What college do you go to man? I've only seen one college that's been friendly to Macs, that's Miami University.

[craigiest]

What college did you go to where dorm rooms included a PC?

My alma mater, Ohio University, in Athens, Ohio, started putting computers in every dorm room at least five years ago. Part of the "give the kids whatever they want" approach to recruiting. I think many schools have followed.

[morespce54]

With that kinda profit why so much for the new displays? Maybe a cheaper imac? :confused:

...or simply more money for Apple... ;)

[Mr. G4]

What college did you go to where dorm rooms included a PC? I agree though, on campus here its either power macs or notebooks almost invariably, except for a few people who do have iMacs. But there are no school owned iMacs - and our campus is very Mac friendly.

During the WWDC I had a chance to visit the Sonoma State University in Rhonerpark, north of San Francisco, I saw Macs everywhere and at their bookstore where they sell computers, they display only Mac and on their flyers it says Sonoma State Loves Mac :cool: and they have campus wide WIFI also, however, you have to have an account to do other thing on the network beside surf the net via a web browser.

[MacinDoc]

That is really really interesting. Can you tell us which site it was ?

Cheers :D
According to ThinkSecret... (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/augustipods.html)

[rogo]

"If Apple had sold 70 million songs as of April 28th on their first anniversary, then that means that Apple only sold some 30 million songs in the quarter. How did that translate to $73 million in revenue? That's quite a bit more than 99¢ a song."

The quarter ran April 1 - June 30.

They sold a lot more than 30 million songs during that time period.

[tex210]

Everyone talks about how people will be sooo disappointed if there was no g5 imac/powerbook..... but truthfully, it's not a hot seller like the g4. The eMacs and 'books are carrying the load! I guess after september everyone will be like... "Well if the eMac/ibook/pbook doesn't get a g5 it's just not worth it!" Truth be told... I don't ever remember hearing a single G5 was so much better than a single g4.... have they improved altivec handling in the g5?
From the sales figures I am assuming the majority of buyers are aiming at the entry level. (As I type this on my g3 crt imac.)
Oh and please don't just put it all behind the monitor... I don't want a dell. Nor do I want to walk up to my monitor hanging on the wall to put in a disk.
Hell, why not transform the fp imac into a tablet/portable with 'book parts and wireless everything. Apple wouldn't look so left out on office depot's site then.
The future is mobile.

[Dave00]

Holy cow. AAPL is up 10% today.

--D

[VIIGemina]

The quarter ran April 1 - June 30.

They sold a lot more than 30 million songs during that time period.

March 15, 2004: Apple announced 50 million songs ar a rate of 2.5 million songs a week.

July 1, 2004: Apple announces that they are at almost 95 million.

So revise the total to some 40 million songs in the quarter. Taking into account Album sales which will drive down the per song price, plus I'm not sure that it's been determined if total downloads includes the free ones, that still only accounts for roughly half of the stated revenue.

If the other half came from books, say an average of $20 a book, that's around 2 million book downloads in the quarter.

I'm wondering if we shouldn't be calling it the "iTunes Book Store."

[VIIGemina]

It would be interesting to know just how many book sales there were last quarter. I'm guessing it was higher than normal due to the Clinton book and the David Sedaris book (the latter is currently selling more than the former), both of which came out last quarter.

The Clinton book only became available June 21 so I don't know that it added that many downloads.

But even Audible only had revenue of $6.6 million in the first quarter with a projection of up to $30 million total for the year 2004.

There's no way that Apple did over $30 million in book downloads in a single quarter. Say Apple had $10 million in book downloads, there's till about $30 million in unexplained revenue.

[Dave00]

The idea is not to simply slap the cpu on the back on the display. The idea is to make the cpu disappear altogether, to reduce the computer to the actual components that a user interacts with: display, keyboard, and mouse. Imagine opening up the box of the iMac and taking out just one thin rectangular box with just a single cable for power. The keyboard and mouse are wireless. Networking is wireless via Airport Express. No set up required. All you need to do is simply mount the box on the wall (or set it on a desktop), connect the power cable, and hit the power button. No hassle. No clutter. The ultimate in minimalist computing.

I love this idea. Imagine a sort of smart TV in your living room, mounted on the wall. You can interact with it via your bluetooth peripherals. Want to show off those family photos, connect to the internet, or do some work without leaving the living room or having to hookup to your laptop? No problem. How about bringing up live stats on the game from the internet, maybe in a nice little separate window? Nice.

[psgibbs]

The idea is not to simply slap the cpu on the back on the display. The idea is to make the cpu disappear altogether, to reduce the computer to the actual components that a user interacts with: display, keyboard, and mouse. Imagine opening up the box of the iMac and taking out just one thin rectangular box with just a single cable for power. The keyboard and mouse are wireless. Networking is wireless via Airport Express. No set up required. All you need to do is simply mount the box on the wall (or set it on a desktop), connect the power cable, and hit the power button. No hassle. No clutter. The ultimate in minimalist computing.


While I think this idea is awesome - Apple first would need to make it so all applications can stream audio to the Airport Express. For instance, playing DVDs should give you the option to send all the audio to the airport. The only question being, would 5 channel sound work with it? Also, does anyone know if the Airport Express audio components have a developer kit, so developers can implement it? These things would be very interesting to know.

[JoePike]

Since we know the Imac is going to have a G5, whats the Chance PB G5 in December

Sure.....if you mean December '05. :eek: Just kidding :D

Seriously, though, I'm dying for a PBG5, as are so many others, but I'm beginning to resign to the fact that I'll probably have to wait until next spring or even summer until I can realistically think about having one in my possession. Sure, they might announce it sometime towards the end of the year or beginning of next, but then there will be setbacks in production, heat dissipation problems, shipping delays, etc. Even that prediction is starting to seem optimistic, since they're still having problems getting 970fx's out of IBM. Also, you can forget about anything over 2ghz in a laptop, or even this new iMac for that matter. I'd be shocked to see anything over 1.8ghz, given the heat issues.

Sorry to be such a downer, kids. At least Apple keeps giving us some good news to spread the sunshine, like the profit numbers, displays, new pods, etc. Chins up!

Hey, is there any glory in having the LAST post around here? :cool:

[davetrow1997]

During the WWDC I had a chance to visit the Sonoma State University in Rhonerpark, north of San Francisco, I saw Macs everywhere and at their bookstore where they sell computers, they display only Mac and on their flyers it says Sonoma State Loves Mac :cool: and they have campus wide WIFI also, however, you have to have an account to do other thing on the network beside surf the net via a web browser.

My father actually is a professor there in Chemistry, and Sonoma State University in Rohnert Park (45 mins north of San Francisco) is an extraordinarily mac-friendly campus... they give the faculty their choice of computers, Apple or Dell... They set my dad up with a nice flat panel iMac. They work flawlessly in a mixed environment and the administration hasn't tried to cheap out on computers like a lot of places and go with buggy windows junkboxes...

[autrefois]

This is all great news for Apple!

Steve running Pepsi? That would be an ironic twist! Would he announce Pepsi upgrades and new flavors every few months?

Speaking of flavors, since
• we now know there will be iMac G5s, and
• the new "regular" iPods are reportedly going to have different colors, according to Think Secret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/augustipods.html)

can we expect flavors to come back to iMacs? I think a lot of people liked being able to choose their computer's color.

[bcsmith]

Uh.....you need to check your attachement.

Pepsico's cap is $5,292,000,000.00

What, did you really think Pepsi is worth five million bucks? They probably do three or four times that in daily sales.

Also, a lot of people here seem to think that companies sell for their market cap value. This not accurate.

Edit: They do nine billion per annum. Buying price would reflect this, not their cap.


The attached image was actually for the Pepsi Bottling Group - the company that bottles the sugar water. PepsiCo's Market Cap is ~$88B. Typically when you acquire a publically traded company you will pay a premium above the current market cap - after all, that's what you could buy it for on the open market anyway. The amount of the premium will be based on things like sales, growth, other intangibles, etc.

But, I think that it is safe to assume that AAPL will not be acquiring PEP anytime soon.

-- Ben

[XForge]

G5 Imac. Should sell well this holiday season. Can't wait to see what it looks like.

I wish they'd throw us a little preview of it on the website.

[switcherck]

My alma mater, Ohio University, in Athens, Ohio, started putting computers in every dorm room at least five years ago. Part of the "give the kids whatever they want" approach to recruiting. I think many schools have followed.

craigiest - i'm an OU alum as well! graduated in '01. you're right on about the computers in every dorm room. i believe most schools are doing this now. OU does a pretty decent job of supporting macs. In fact, I got interested in macs because the computer labs always had a wait for PCs while no one was using macs.

sorry, that was a bit off topic. I think I might find a way to be in the market for a new computer come September!

[blakemsf]

There is no iMac education market. For the most part, schools cannot afford to pay an extra $20,000 just to get flat screens in a computer lab. Either they will buy an affordable eMac, or spend the extra money on PowerMacs and use existing monitors.

College students are not interested in buying desktop machines. Most dorm rooms include a PC, so if kids want a computer of their own, they want a laptop to use with campus-wide WiFi.

I agree some what with that statement but would buy the iMac for the reason of deskspace in a lab. We have moved more and more towards All-in-one machines(will have 3 labs with Gateway Profiles and hopefully one iMac G5 lab soon) This is an ease of shipping(one box instead of two and when you have a 1 or two it is hard to store 42 boxes(2 labs) now imagine 84) Another thing is not as many cables running everywhere(no power cable for monitor or VGA cable running to computer).
Currently we have PM G4 but on campus a 3 iMacs(old iMacs DV) and a few PowerBooks. I was in a dorm this passed year @ Ohio State and noticed a few iMacs around along with a few PowerBooks as well. My 2 cents

[Master Windu]

With that kinda profit why so much for the new displays? Maybe a cheaper imac? :confused:

61 Mill sounds huge, but is less than a 10% profit margin found on many products in and out of the tech industry. I bet the new displays cost more to make and the design work had to cost something; therefore, higher cost to you and me. Don't get me wrong I don't want to over pay, but I do feel fine about supporting Apple and keeping the company growing.

[blakemsf]

craigiest - i'm an OU alum as well! graduated in '01. you're right on about the computers in every dorm room. i believe most schools are doing this now. OU does a pretty decent job of supporting macs. In fact, I got interested in macs because the computer labs always had a wait for PCs while no one was using macs.

sorry, that was a bit off topic. I think I might find a way to be in the market for a new computer come September!

Well this is just an OU reunion site! Although I didn't graduate OU(went to U. of Rio Grande, about 40 miles down the road) I currently work for them dealing with computers.

[iPC]

Because they are in business to make money.
3% is pretty crappy. old furniture store i used to work at cleared 7% after everything was said and done. :cool:

[Master Windu]

Since we know the Imac is going to have a G5, whats the Chance PB G5 in December

If you assume the form factor will be similar in space to the now old iMac then the only issue left to solve will be power. The other big problem Heat disipation will have been taken care of. You can think of an iMac as a laptop with a really odd formfactor with one exception. It will always be plugged in! No need to worry about battery life. The new powerbooks I am sure are in the works, but if they change the imac form to a bigger box for cooling you can bet powerbooks are still quite a while off. Power/Battery life issues will need to be addressed and might be significant, but if Dell can get a 3GHZ crapium with 2 hrs battery life apple will better them and be the first 64 bit usable laptop. (there have been a few attemps to put Athlon 64 into a "laptop", but turned into a desktop with a flat screen welded on and a battery life of about 5 mins.)

I would bet that the Tiger release and powerbooks are on the same time frame.

[Master Windu]

3% is pretty crappy. old furniture store i used to work at cleared 7% after everything was said and done. :cool:

research can kill your profit. With new displays, Tiger, 3GHZ power mac, G5 iMac, and G5 power book under development all at once it is not hard to imagine a 3% profit, so I take it as a good sign and that the company is planning to grow. You know they have to profit off from iTunes even if they had to make a deal with the devil to get iTunes music store avalible to the peecee market.

[Trekkie]

right there with you. i LOVE M$ mice

I've yet to figure out why people do based on my experiences. I've yet to have one last over a year and it's not like I wing it around my head like a bolo every day.

[Master Windu]

how then do the G5 x serves fit into this line of reasoning?

terry

Xserves do not work as a powerbook line up. They can hog as much power as Apple wants and nobody will care. They are put in strictly controlled climates. Powerful fans can be used to cool the units.

Imacs have the same display attached, low noise, hard to get rid of heat issues as a powerbook. They only very significate probelm is power (battery life) since a Imac is always plugged in.

[Trekkie]

how then do the G5 x serves fit into this line of reasoning?

terry


maybe teh big fans that make lots of noise blowing through the unit help vs. passive radiating cooling that they're trying to use in the iMac

[MacEyeDoc]

61 Mill sounds huge, but is less than a 10% profit margin found on many products in and out of the tech industry. I bet the new displays cost more to make and the design work had to cost something; therefore, higher cost to you and me. Don't get me wrong I don't want to over pay, but I do feel fine about supporting Apple and keeping the company growing.

FROM CNN: IBM, the world's largest technology services company posted income from continuing operations of $2 billion, or $1.16 a share, up 17 percent from the $1.7 billion, or 97 cents a share, a year earlier. Analysts were expecting IBM to report a profit of $1.12 a share, according to Thomson First Call.
Sales at Armonk, N.Y.-based IBM came in at $23.2 billion.



Before we get too blown away with Apple's numbers - IBM's profit was more than Apple's entire gross, and their sales were almost 12 times Apple's. (1,180 percent greater).

[dongmin]

Sure.....if you mean December '05. :eek: Just kidding :D

Seriously, though, I'm dying for a PBG5, as are so many others, but I'm beginning to resign to the fact that I'll probably have to wait until next spring or even summer until I can realistically think about having one in my possession. Sure, they might announce it sometime towards the end of the year or beginning of next, but then there will be setbacks in production, heat dissipation problems, shipping delays, etc. Even that prediction is starting to seem optimistic, since they're still having problems getting 970fx's out of IBM. Also, you can forget about anything over 2ghz in a laptop, or even this new iMac for that matter. I'd be shocked to see anything over 1.8ghz, given the heat issues.I know this may be heresy on these boards, but I don't think Apple is in that much of a hurry to shoehorn the G5 into the PowerBooks. The PowerBooks are selling well as is, with a 'lousy' G4. The reason the PowerBooks sell well is because of the slick finish, ultra-thin form factor, and portability. Apple knows this. Sure they'd love to sell a G5 PowerBooks, but not if it means compromising on the design and portability.

The next PowerBook will come in October/November. I'm super-curious about what Apple is doing to extend the life of the G4. Does Motorola/Freescale have another version of the 744x in the works to scale beyond 1.5 ghz? Or will Apple do something semi-radical by introducing the e600 for their portables? The e600 is pin-compatible with the 7447A, but it allows for a fatter bus and requires a different memory controller. So Apple will have to redo the architecture.

My preference is for Apple to go the e600 route. It's a processor designed for a small-form-factor computer. The G5, even with a 90 nm version, is not. It's a server chip scaled down to desktop levels.

With that said, all signs point to G5s going across the entire pro line (here I include the iMac). Tiger is going 64-bit. I'm sure Apple will start to tune their pro audio and video apps for 64-bit addresing. And Apple themselves have confirmed as much, saying that they're working on fitting the G5 into the PowerBooks, even if it'll take a while. What would really excite me is if Apple-IBM are working on a mobile version of the G5.

[djdarlek]

Well said!

'Nuff said!

Aluminum scroll wheel NOW...!

its never going to happen via apple sadly.. but rejoice if you haven't seen this... http://macmice.com/themouseal.html

:D

[rjfiske]

Before we get too blown away with Apple's numbers - IBM's profit was more than Apple's entire gross, and their sales were almost 12 times Apple's. (1,180 percent greater).

I think it's ok to get blown away with Apple's numbers BECAUSE they are Apple's numbers. We're not IBM, or Microsoft, or Chrysler or McDonalds or Martha Stewart Living, Inc. We're Apple. We make hardware and we make the software... I STILL have PC ignoramuses (it's a word, trust me) who insist that Apple will be going out of business.. it's only a matter of time, they say. It's easier to show them Apple's successful numbers instead of someone else's dismal numbers to prove the PC ignorami wrong.

I'm encouraged by what I see with these numbers. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. This might be because I've never done business with a company (all of the other examples above included) who've made me feel happy like this. Disney up until Frank Wells' death and Jeffrey Katzenberg's departure is about the only thing that comes close.

But MacEyeDoc I see what you're saying... You use the phrase "too blown away" and with that I concur. Apple clearly has some things to work on, but being the eternal optimist that I am, I am counting on Apple to "blow us away" again in the not too distant future.

[stingerman]

FROM CNN: IBM, the world's largest technology services company posted income from continuing operations of $2 billion, or $1.16 a share, up 17 percent from the $1.7 billion, or 97 cents a share, a year earlier. Analysts were expecting IBM to report a profit of $1.12 a share, according to Thomson First Call.
Sales at Armonk, N.Y.-based IBM came in at $23.2 billion.



Before we get too blown away with Apple's numbers - IBM's profit was more than Apple's entire gross, and their sales were almost 12 times Apple's. (1,180 percent greater).
WTF, HELLO! It's shareholder value not overall revenue that matter. Look at the difference in the shares outstanding between Apple and IBM. Both great companies and both great values.

[stingerman]

3% is pretty crappy. old furniture store i used to work at cleared 7% after everything was said and done. :cool:
My goodness, what geniuses we have here. Net income for a publicly traded company is different than how much is cleared. You need to look at the cash-flow numbers, Apple typically puts away from 170 Million to 300 Million a quarter. Net income includes many non-cash expenses by GAAP measures. Apple makes a heck of a lot more cash than 3%.

[Mord]

Maybe a cheaper imac?

the imac g5 should be cheaper because the g5 is a cheaper prosessor than the g4 because ibm is allot bigger and better than motorola and can produce chips on a larger scale, just look at the moto g5 it's at something like 500MHz or somthing pathetic like that

i'm sure apple would like to go g5 accross the range but they cannot due to heat constraints.

i'n never going to buy an imac but this is what i would be happy to recommend to my freind

17" 1.8GHz g5 imac
512MB ram
radeon 9600 pro 128MB
(9800 pro option 256MB)
superdrive (8x)
same quality tft as the new displays
bluetooth standard
gigabit ethernet


what will probably happen

17" imac 1.6GHz g5
256MB ram
nvidia 5600 128MB card
superdrive (8x)
average tft's
10/100 ethernet

i'm not convinced that they will do a wall mount imac unless it could somehow have an arm that connects to the imac's screen and works much like the current arm and is totally positionale.

remember you cant put optical drives and HD's at funny angles so if the mac is behind the display the display would have to stay vertical which is not a good design

i would keep the current desighn but make it out of aluminium that design is the only practical imac all in one lcd that looks good.

[xsnightclub]

FROM CNN: IBM, the world's largest technology services company posted income from continuing operations of $2 billion, or $1.16 a share, up 17 percent from the $1.7 billion, or 97 cents a share, a year earlier. Analysts were expecting IBM to report a profit of $1.12 a share, according to Thomson First Call.
Sales at Armonk, N.Y.-based IBM came in at $23.2 billion.



Before we get too blown away with Apple's numbers - IBM's profit was more than Apple's entire gross, and their sales were almost 12 times Apple's. (1,180 percent greater).

With THAT amount of money one would with think IBM would be able to produce some damn G5 chips. Maybe a more investment in R&D and less in the pockets would help.

[AidenShaw]

remember you cant put optical drives and HD's at funny angles

Obviously this is why no laptop has hard drives or optical drives - if you sat in a chair and it wasn't exactly flat it would destroy the drives.

I guess it's also why there aren't any portable CD players - no way of keeping the portable player exactly horizontal or vertical.

And it's certainly why *nobody* would *ever* make a portable music player with a hard drive - it would destroy itself if the player was tilted.


In truth:

1. hard drives can function at any angle and orientation

2. CDs can run at any angle as well - a simple magnetic clamp is commonly used to hold the disc in place (for example, the Sony DNS707F "Sports CD Walkman" http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=-4ywFlPfwpSwfRMo54u6HRzOacg8Wt-Dk4I=?ProductSKU=DNS707F)

[xsnightclub]

Obviously this is why no laptop has hard drives or optical drives - if you sat in a chair and it wasn't exactly flat it would destroy the drives.

I guess it's also why there aren't any portable CD players - no way of keeping the portable player exactly horizontal or vertical.

And it's certainly why *nobody* would *ever* make a portable music player with a hard drive - it would destroy itself if the player was tilted.


In truth:

1. hard drives can function at any angle and orientation

2. CDs can run at any angle as well - a simple magnetic clamp is commonly used to hold the disc in place (for example, the Sony DNS707F "Sports CD Walkman" http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=-4ywFlPfwpSwfRMo54u6HRzOacg8Wt-Dk4I=?ProductSKU=DNS707F)

Yeah, and if any would develop these devices they would be SOOOOO expensive that NOBODY would ever by one. They would be like $250 for a miniature version, way to expensive for anybody to buy. Horrible idea, better stick with magentic tape reels, floppy disks and 8-tracks (read:ATRAC)

[Mainyehc]

I think Apple KNOWS that the iMac is not a big seller for the education market. It's the iBooks and eMacs that people by. If people want more horsepower, they go to either the PowerBooks or Power Macs. The iMac appeals more to the style-freaks who don't mind shelling out big bucks for a mediocre performing machine. Students are way more budget-conscious.
(Fifth post, been hanging out on the forums since Sep. '03 :D)
I have a 1,25 GHz 17'' iMac and I must say it's not such a bad machine as far as performance is concerned... but yes, definitely a little bit mediocre... Ok, I was lusting over the Dual 2.0 GHz G5 when I bought my iMac, and besides, I have to work with large files as I'm studying graphics design... It's not the fastest machine avaliable, it's even slower than cheaper PCs, but I love it, perhaps because I'm a "style-freak"... And not THAT budget-conscious, for that matter, and I'm preety sure that there are much more like me around... Face it, every single Macintosh is, nowadays, aimed at "style-freaks", as are iPods, etc etc... They're the best products around, but they're also the coolest, and the more functional anyway... (yes, it's that "niche market" talk again).... BUT...
I have to agree with you. And one thing I can't cope with is with the lack of RAM; 80 GB of disk is not a problem, when you have a Superdrive... and a 4x Superdrive (instead of a 8x) is not a problem, unless you have deadly deadlines... 1,25 GHz, or 1,6-2,0 GHz as expected in the new iMac isn't a problem either, I honestly believe that Tiger will run smoothly on both 32-bit and 64-bit systems. BUT... 256-512 MB of RAM?? I even feel less "ashamed" of my iPod's meager battery life than of my iMac's ridiculously small amount of memory!! (then again, not much people around here are aware of the average battery life amongst the iPod's competitors :D)
One of the primary complaints made by my colleagues about Macs, when we talk about computers, is their ostentatious lack of memory! The "MHz myth" couldn't be less of an issue as it is now, people nowadays are quite more open minded about benchmarks and stuff... When I'm telling people how good Macs are, because of OS X, less bloatware/viruses/security issues, great compatibility, open standards, etc (even though sometimes their overall specs seem... "feeble"), they all agree with me. When they ask me about memory I just go "Eeeerrrr.... well, consumer [or shoud I say "prosumer"? :rolleyes:] Macs usually come with less memory than their PC counterparts... but you can always upgrade it, like... errrr... double it... or put some nice 1GHz [in the iMac] and throw away [or sell it at eBay??] the original 256MB DIMM :o [and I actually know you can already top its memory at 2GB... sweeeeeet, but expensive!:eek: so I don't even talk about that!]" , and then, I get those strange, unfriendly looks!
So, Apple, keep the small hard drives, slow optical drives, slow processors, minimal expansion slots, and GREAT LOOKS on the iMac, but PLEASE, give us more RAM (minimum 512MB on the eMac, and 1GB on the iMac, across the board)... I live in Portugal, and we don't have an official Apple Store here, so we can't have BTO machines as easily as you do, so it'd be nice to have some decent machines in retail stores... Now I need urgently a 512MB SO-DIMM (as I don't want to void my warranty) so I can handle my huge files with ease...
And remember, my iMac 17'', 1,25GHz, w/ 256MB RAM cost me €2.100, some $2.590... :( (I love it all the same, the thing is beautiful and everyone goes "oooohh" and "aaaaahh" just by looking at it, and specially after playing with the screen a bit...AND after ejecting the Superdrive... But I guess you'd have figured that out already, no? :D)

[maxterpiece]

The eMac is ugly. It is a bloated version of the old iMac. It apparently has serious problems with its built-in CRT display. It hasn't been updated in a long time and gets the least exposure in all apple events and in the apple stores. The only thing unique or special about it is its price. It's the only apple you can get for under $1000. THe fact that so many (not that it's a huge number) eMacs are being sold tells me that the consumer market is thirsty for something from apple. Something cool and affordable. It doesn't have to be super powerful, but powerful enough to run OS X well. I hope the new iMac G5 will replace the current iMac and the eMac in price range. A 17" LCD display is only like $300. Price the iMac starting at $900 with a 17" LCD built in and people will buy.

[DavidCar]

For what it's worth, This is what I am watching for.

El Gato's EyeTV 500 for broadcast HDTV is selling better than expected, according to their website. It connects to the computer with Firewire 400. One problem is that to acheive full frame rate HDTV (1920 x 1080) it requires a Dual G5 to decode the MPEG-2. For some reason, according to their FAQs, they are not able to use the graphics processor for this. They claim Quicktime is unable to use the graphics processor to decode MPEG-2 either, and that the elgato software is 10 - 20% better at this than Quicktime.

Enter Mac OSX Tiger. Part of what was demonstrated in the Tiger preview was Core Video which "provides a modern foundation for video services in Mac OS X Tiger. It provides a bridge between QuickTime and the GPU for hardware-accelerated video processing." Does this mean that Core Video will allow ElGato to use the GPU for MPEG-2, and lower the hardware requirements for full blown HDTV?

Enter the G5 iMac. Will the new G5 iMac be usable with a 23 inch Cinema HD Display? (1920 x 1200) Will Tiger OSX allow ElGato to use an iMac G5 to present full frame rate full resolution HDTV? (1920 x 1080)

That is what I am watching for.

I seriously doubt a G5 iMac would have any built in TV capability.

[MegaSignal]

its never going to happen via apple sadly.. but rejoice if you haven't seen this... http://macmice.com/themouseal.html

:D

Yeah - I'll be ordering the BT version in September.

After reading the entire thread with regard to IBM's ability of chip yields (especially once the 90nm process has all of the bugs ironed out), perhaps a lineup that needs some paring, and Steve's commitment to wireless, here's my $0.02:

iMac G5 1.6MHz
Aluminum case
15" lcd
256MB RAM
60G hdd
Combo drive
Standard w/BT and Airport Extreme, Standard w/wireless mouse and keyboard
$999

iMac G5 1.8MHz
Same as above plus:
20" lcd
512 MB RAM
160G hdd
$1799

eMac - discontinued

Then again - maybe not. Guess we'll just have to see what happens in Paris.

[appleface]

Enter the G5 iMac. Will the new G5 iMac be usable with a 23 inch Cinema HD Display? (1920 x 1200) Will Tiger OSX allow ElGato to use an iMac G5 to present full frame rate full resolution HDTV? (1920 x 1080)

That is what I am watching for.

I seriously doubt a G5 iMac would have any built in TV capability.

it does seem very unapple to allow a mac to be used to watch television, and i would also be surprised if the imac would have built in TV capabilities. at the same time, it seems like that is the way apple's technology is headed: wireless speakers, displays capable of HD, new quicktime.

what if tiger had a little tv icon in the dock. then i could check my email during commercials. (all of you tivo peeps can reply with comments like "what commercials?" now)

[iomar]

I can't wait for the new G5 iMacs!

[aswitcher]

eMac - discontinued

Then again - maybe not. Guess we'll just have to see what happens in Paris.

eMac will not be discontinued. Sales are too good and the new iMac is quite a different machine in a very different price range.

[dongmin]

iMac G5 1.6MHz
Aluminum case
15" lcd
256MB RAM
60G hdd
Combo drive
Standard w/BT and Airport Extreme, Standard w/wireless mouse and keyboard
$999
Sorry but that is wishful thinking. The low-end Power Mac goes for $1999, sans monitor. The 970fx chip itself may be cheaper than a G4 (which I actually doubt considering the poor yield) but a G5 machine has a lot more going into it than just the chip. The bus, memory, new PCI, Hypertransport, digital audio, all those extra fans and sensors--these are just a few of the things that puts the G5 system in a different price bracket than a G4 machine.

The current low-end G4 iMac (now discontinued) has the worst specs of any Apple desktop and yet it still goes for $1299. Follow? Good styling and small form-factors cost money. And so do nice LCDs. I'd be shocked if the G5 iMac started at anything lower than $1499. I just hope that Apple's reading another new desktop machine to fill the low-end.

[Windowlicker]

So, they leave money around for possible aquisitions. Who do you think (other than google) would Apple be interested in aquiring? That's a LOT of money to spend. What do you all think? :confused:

Adobe? "No more future Photoshop versions for Windows." That would be hilarious.. first logic, then adobe, then what? they don't need much more because they already have FCP.

not sure if this wouldbe any good though. and adobe is worth a lot more than 5 billion I believe. correct me if i'm wrong.

[Windowlicker]

A song is a poor unit of measurement. How many "songs" are there in Beethoven or Mahler's 9th Symphony?

I know that pop music is iTunes' best seller, but it's not the only thing they sell. I buy audiobooks, opera, and symphonies, which tend to be more expensive and less easily divided into neat three minute Clear-Channel chunks.

at last someone sees it like I do! :D i'm so glad! people tend to ask me "how many songs do you have on your computer"? well, I have to answer "around 2000". But the fact is that in the song length that those people are mostly talking about I would have around 6000-7000 songs on my computer, because the average length of my tracks are around 10 minutes.

[Mord]

Obviously this is why no laptop has hard drives or optical drives - if you sat in a chair and it wasn't exactly flat it would destroy the drives.

I guess it's also why there aren't any portable CD players - no way of keeping the portable player exactly horizontal or vertical.

And it's certainly why *nobody* would *ever* make a portable music player with a hard drive - it would destroy itself if the player was tilted.


In truth:

1. hard drives can function at any angle and orientation

2. CDs can run at any angle as well - a simple magnetic clamp is commonly used to hold the disc in place (for example, the Sony DNS707F "Sports CD Walkman" http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=-4ywFlPfwpSwfRMo54u6HRzOacg8Wt-Dk4I=?ProductSKU=DNS707F)

those hard drives are portable hard drives there is a big difference in schock tollerences and angled operation even in portable drived it's not a good idea to change the oriantation of the thing when useing a cd my ibook makes a horrible noise as it changes oriantation with a cd i.

that cd player is desighned to be able to be moved around allot and the same for 1.8' HD's but not desktop components like a 5.25" optical drive and a standard 3.5" HD sure they would work but there lifetime is sevearly shortened, apple could use non standard parts but then we could never upgrade the hard drive or the optical drive without spending a small fourtune steve said it himself when explianing the design of the old imac a componets behind the screen imac could not work because of the fact that optical drives and Hard drives need to be at 90 degree angles, and beside that it would wrek havok with the thermal dynamics.

[CmdrLaForge]

This is all great news for Apple!



Speaking of flavors, since
• we now know there will be iMac G5s, and
• the new "regular" iPods are reportedly going to have different colors, according to Think Secret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/augustipods.html)

can we expect flavors to come back to iMacs? I think a lot of people liked being able to choose their computer's color.

Yep, I think we will see the colors back in the consumer line. I guess we see colors on both iMac and iBook. I think it would be great. And I assume the same colors as current iPod mini

[CmdrLaForge]

If you assume the form factor will be similar in space to the now old iMac then the only issue left to solve will be power. The other big problem Heat disipation will have been taken care of. You can think of an iMac as a laptop with a really odd formfactor with one exception. It will always be plugged in! No need to worry about battery life. The new powerbooks I am sure are in the works, but if they change the imac form to a bigger box for cooling you can bet powerbooks are still quite a while off. Power/Battery life issues will need to be addressed and might be significant, but if Dell can get a 3GHZ crapium with 2 hrs battery life apple will better them and be the first 64 bit usable laptop. (there have been a few attemps to put Athlon 64 into a "laptop", but turned into a desktop with a flat screen welded on and a battery life of about 5 mins.)


The iMac with a Pizza box design will be like a notebook, just bigger with 20" screens and not portable.

I wish they would bring back the cube.

[Windowlicker]

pretty off topic, but concerning my last post:

WOOT! I JUST REALIZED THEY HAVE LONDON ELEKTRICITY ON iTMS!! :D :D

[Mord]

(which I actually doubt considering the poor yield)

the yeilds are not bad considering a change in prosess size and belive me they are allot better than motorola's yeilds

[AidenShaw]

but not desktop components like a 5.25" optical drive and a standard 3.5" HD sure they would work but there lifetime is sevearly shortened.

Please support this conjecture with some facts.... Statements by Steve Jobs do not count as "facts".

A quote from a disk drive installation guide warning about not mounting the drive at an angle would be good.... (Hint - don't bother looking at Maxtor and Western Digital installation guides, they have no mention of orientation.)

Did you know that a Sun Ultra 10 workstation mounts the drive upside-down (circuit board on top)?

Of course you would not be able to use a standard tray-loading CD drive on a tilting panel IFF the panel could swing through the vertical plane. (The old clear plastic displays would work, they can't tilt forward through the vertical plane.)

The point about the CD is that there's proven technology out there for securing the disc - it doesn't need to be fixed in a horizontal or vertical plane.

Another tilted CD:

http://www.dakmart.com/items/big/NAKA-SS1.jpg

[Wardofsky]

If I can recall back to when the latest iMac was introduced Steve talked about how most people would presume to make an iMac with an LCD screen would just "chop off the back" and so put most of the drives vertically.

I think he said the performance of the drives would be reduced. I'm not that technical but I suppose verticle drives pose some problems.

[Trekkie]

Sorry but that is wishful thinking. The low-end Power Mac goes for $1999, sans monitor. The 970fx chip itself may be cheaper than a G4 (which I actually doubt considering the poor yield)

One comment. On the doubting of the lower price than G4. Yield rates would have nothing to do with IBM's price to Apple, because that would have been negotiated up front via a contract. IBM would have presented prices over time and would be held to that if Apple's purchasers are worth their job at all. If Apple's guys were really good IBM would be paying 'penalties' in discounts now if they aren't at their committed ship levels.

Just my $0.02. I could be wrong, but if I ran the business that's how I would have approached it.

[AidenShaw]

I think he said the performance of the drives would be reduced. I'm not that technical but I suppose verticle drives pose some problems.


http://images.apple.com/xserve/raid/images/index_xserveraid_top.gif

[Wardofsky]

[img]xRAID[img]

Optically http://dave.thefotokid.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_surprised.gif

[AidenShaw]

Optically

http://img.dell.com/images/global/products/optix/gx270_sff_front_122x100.jpg

o 24X Combo DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive
o mount horizontally or vertically
o 3 year warranty

o $596

Dell GX270 SFF
________________
http://img.dell.com/images/global/products/precn/ws470_dt_front_131x145.jpg

o up to 12X DVD+RW (20 different optical options)
o mount tower (vertical) or desktop (horizontal)
o dual 64-bit Xeon processors (EM64T) (up to 3.6 GHz, 1 MiB L2, 800 MHz FSB)
o DDR2 ECC memory (up to 16 GiB)
o PCI Express x16 bus (up to 4X faster than AGP 8x)
o nVidia Quadro PCI Express graphics
o 3 year warranty

o $1753

[Frobozz]

This really is about the best financial news Apple has had in years. For the 3Q it's the best in 8 years. What makes me so hopeful that Apple will be increasing market share is that they sold so briskly. I think they're really gaining some ground and that we are seeing the wavefront of people giving Apple a look when they buy a new computer.

And hoorah for the iPod sales. I only know 1 person in my grup of friends with an mp3 player that is not an iPod. Almost all the others have a mini or a regular iPod... we're talking like 80% of my friends. And these people are 20 somethings and 30 somethings, not kids.

I'd also like to thank Apple for the outrageous amount of profit I've made on their stock. Bought in the 16's almost 2 years ago now and sold off prior to hitting $30. Wish I held it now!

[roadwarrior]

I've yet to figure out why people do based on my experiences. I've yet to have one last over a year and it's not like I wing it around my head like a bolo every day.

My Microsoft trackball lasted about 6 months before it simply stopped paying attention to which way you rolled the ball. The lights still respond to movement, and the buttons still work, but no cursor movement at all.

edit: I won't buy any trackball but a Logitech anymore, but I do love Microsoft's Natural keyboards, especially the Pro.

[Master Windu]

iMac G5 1.6MHz
Aluminum case
15" lcd
256MB RAM
60G hdd
Combo drive
Standard w/BT and Airport Extreme, Standard w/wireless mouse and keyboard
$999

iMac G5 1.8MHz
Same as above plus:
20" lcd
512 MB RAM
160G hdd
$1799

eMac - discontinued

Then again - maybe not. Guess we'll just have to see what happens in Paris.

No way the new iMac will do more for less than the current price line. I think your computer specs will be close to the mark although maybe 200 Mhz low accross the board. I think prices will be 300 - 400 more than you listed. Not that I would be unhappy with a lower price!

[~Shard~]

No way the new iMac will do more for less than the current price line. I think your computer specs will be close to the mark although maybe 200 Mhz low accross the board. I think prices will be 300 - 400 more than you listed. Not that I would be unhappy with a lower price!

I agree. This is the thing I’m afraid lots of people are going to be complaining about when the G5 iMacs come out. They’ve been complaining and whining that the iMac needs a G5, (not that it doesn't of course), yet when it is finally announced, and at a higher price, the same people are going to complain and whine about the price being increased. I’m not saying that it will happen for sure, but I definitely would not be surprised, (and I somewhat expect), the new iMacs to be a little more pricey than the current ones. It makes sense due to the G5 and all the hardware modifications/upgrades that are required. I see the iMac moving into more of a mid-level solution, with the eMac becoming the only true consumer model and the PowerMac of course being the high end pro model. The G5 iMac will fit nicely between the 2, however this will come at a greater cost, which I don’t think some people realize. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I can just hear the complaints coming in already... :rolleyes:

[Doctor Q]

They’ve been complaining and whining that the iMac needs a G5, (not that it doesn't of course), yet when it is finally announced, and at a higher price, the same people are going to complain and whine about the price being increased.Yes, I'm a whiner about the iMac. But instead of a complaint that the iMac was lacking a G5, my whine has been that the G4 iMac was overpriced for its position in the Mac product line. If, instead of replacing G4 iMacs with G5 iMacs for the same or higher prices, Apple kept the G4 iMacs too and dropped their prices, it would be better for me personally. But I realize it won't happen. I'm in the market for a low-end Mac with an LCD monitor as a second home system. My previous iMac choice was overpriced. My new iMac choices may be too expensive for me. Maybe we need LCD eMacs?

[joeboy_45101]

I think Apple needs to do something to save itself for the back to school sales. Introducing the iMac G5 at the end of August and shipping in September is too late for most of the new school year sales. They should put a lot of backing into their eMac line, this could help their sales in the upcoming months until the arrival of the iMac G5. The eMac is a capable little machine but they are not marketing it enough to most suitable audience, college students.

I think Apple needs to pump up the eMac line with a 1.5Ghz G4 and upgraded Graphics plus offer a discount of something like a choice between a free RAM upgrade, free Airport Extreme Card upgrade, or money back when you purchase an iPod with the system. They also need to be pushing their portable lines like crazy, also with an included special offer.

[jackieonasses]

I think Apple needs to do something to save itself for the back to school sales. Introducing the iMac G5 at the end of August and shipping in September is too late for most of the new school year sales. They should put a lot of backing into their eMac line, this could help their sales in the upcoming months until the arrival of the iMac G5. The eMac is a capable little machine but they are not marketing it enough to most suitable audience, college students.

I think Apple needs to pump up the eMac line with a 1.5Ghz G4 and upgraded Graphics plus offer a discount of something like a choice between a free RAM upgrade, free Airport Extreme Card upgrade, or money back when you purchase an iPod with the system. They also need to be pushing their portable lines like crazy, also with an included special offer.
it doesnt matter what they put in an emac. kids like design. and the emac looks horriable.

[joeboy_45101]

I think that if Apple did make an aluminum iMac G5 with the logic board and drives mounted behind the display it would be ugly, it would just look like Apple's version of the Profile 4. This design is ugly. I would rather they kept the current body style but replacing the plastice body parts with brushed aluminum. They don't have to completely redesign the damn thing everytime they upgrade it. Look at the PowerMac it still has the same outlined body that the old B/W G3's had: tower, with side access, and the handle bars. You could break the iMac design down into: dome base, adjustable neck, and flatscreen(removable, maybe)