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MacRumors
Oct 6, 2009, 10:15 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/10/06/verizon-targets-atandts-network-with-theres-a-map-for-that-campaign/)

TechFlash noted (http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/10/verizon_goes_right_after_att_with_new_ad_campaign.html) yesterday that Verizon is rolling out a new advertising campaign targeting AT&T's network by focusing on the geographic coverage of the competing companies' networks. The campaign also employs a twist on Apple's "There's an app for that" iPhone slogan with its own tagline of "There's a map for that."The fine print also is worth checking out. It reads: "Browse the Web and download music and apps, at 3G speed, in five times more places than the nation's number two wireless carrier. Before you pick a phone, pick a network."A television commercial featuring the new campaign also debuted yesterday.



Article Link: Verizon Targets AT&T's Network With 'There's a Map For That' Campaign (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/10/06/verizon-targets-atandts-network-with-theres-a-map-for-that-campaign/)



Small White Car
Oct 6, 2009, 10:18 AM
Hey. Good for them.

An even BETTER commercial would focus on the fact that AT&T service is slow and drops out even where there IS coverage.

Maybe that'll be their next ad.

Shasterball
Oct 6, 2009, 10:20 AM
Hey. Good for them.

An even BETTER commercial would focus on the fact that AT&T service is slow and drops out even where there IS coverage.

Maybe that'll be their next ad.

Except Verizon does that too!!!!

bigmc6000
Oct 6, 2009, 10:21 AM
Except Verizon does that too!!!!

Wait, you mean that grass on the other side isn't actually greener it's just painted green?!?!?! ;)

miketcool
Oct 6, 2009, 10:25 AM
T-Mo may have screwed the pooch on their 3G rollout, but my phone doesn't drop 30% of my calls. It'll be interesting to see how ATT, and TMo keep up with the 3G coverage, as Verizon and Sprint move forward.

Small White Car
Oct 6, 2009, 10:27 AM
Except Verizon does that too!!!!

Well back in December 2008 people were telling me that AT&T and Verizon both dropped calls and had problems and whatnot so it's really all the same.

Since then my AT&T service has gotten 4 times worse.

Are you telling me that Verizon got 4 times worse over the last year too?? This is the first I've heard of that.

aristobrat
Oct 6, 2009, 10:29 AM
T-Mo may have screwed the pooch on their 3G rollout, but my phone doesn't drop 30% of my calls. It'll be interesting to see how ATT, and TMo keep up with the 3G coverage, as Verizon and Sprint move forward.
AT&T in my area doesn't drop 30% of the calls either, ... and 3G is faster than Verizon, too. Thankfully I don't travel out of my area often. :)

For whatever reason, Sprint and Verizon started deploying their 3G networks about three years before T-Mobile and AT&T did. Nothing T-Mobile and AT&T can do about that now, except let Verizon gloat while they continue to try to play catch-up.

jayducharme
Oct 6, 2009, 10:32 AM
The only drawback for Verizon is that they still don't have the iPhone ... yet.

I like how the commercial gives a little taste of the coming augmented reality craze.

aristobrat
Oct 6, 2009, 10:39 AM
Are you telling me that Verizon got 4 times worse over the last year too?? This is the first I've heard of that.
I don't think there's any arguing that Verizon has the most stable 3G network, but the biggest question is, if they do get the iPhone, can Verizon's 3G network maintain the same quality with a quick influx of a few million iPhone users?

skye12
Oct 6, 2009, 10:39 AM
The 30% figure was for users in the NYC METRO area. People just don't read anything anymore except snippets and headlines.
Also, very recently another frequency spectrum was rolled out in certain markets, Including NYC which should improve
performance.

Verizon has its own problems too. And iphone users actually surf the net lol.

urbanslaughter
Oct 6, 2009, 10:43 AM
I have to say, when I first heard about the iPhone I let my Verizon account go, because I knew I wanted to get the iPhone. Well AT&T sucks up in my part of the woods. We have terrible coverage. My girlfriend uses Verizon - let's just say, I can't wait for Verizon to start offering the iPhone.

the-oz-man
Oct 6, 2009, 10:45 AM
Love this commercial! AT&T get a clue from your competition. Your 3G coverage sucks!

mozmac
Oct 6, 2009, 10:46 AM
Finally, a Verizon commercial that I like!

SkippyThorson
Oct 6, 2009, 10:50 AM
Finally, a Verizon commercial that I like!


+1

Clever on their part. Perhaps AT&T will get a clue, or perhaps Verizon is just asking to get the iPhone handed to them. ;)

Rsquare.OB
Oct 6, 2009, 10:51 AM
First, Apple must build an iPhone that will work on Verizon's CDMA network (iPhone is GSM & HPDA), OR Verizon must upgrade their network to handle GSM/HDMA. I don't thing either will ever happen.

Mr. Gates
Oct 6, 2009, 10:56 AM
Ha, Yea lets see the world map....
Gee, where's Verizon?

zombitronic
Oct 6, 2009, 11:00 AM
It was a good message until they stated "Before you pick a phone, pick a network." That would be valid in an iPhone-less world. They would still be selling us phones based on a spinning CGI rendering of a phone's outer shell. "Look! A plastic candy bar! You like candy, don't you? Then you'll love our rectangular phone! Brand new features like rounded edges and three colors!"

Apple changed the game. The device should now be the focus. The service should be an afterthought in the background.

skeep5
Oct 6, 2009, 11:03 AM
What kind of a world do we live in, where a man, Dressed up as a bat, gets all my press? This town needs an enema!

rdowns
Oct 6, 2009, 11:05 AM
We can hear you now. :D

slamshut
Oct 6, 2009, 11:20 AM
Ill tell you this they are better then sprint and t-mobile as far as verizon it they had the iphone im pretty sure they will have issues with there network. For all the data traffic that att handle now they can do way better, but like i said there are worse carriers out there.

GuardBoy98
Oct 6, 2009, 11:31 AM
Very clever. I tend to agree, but I waited two years after the release of the original iPhone for Verizon to offer something comparable that wasn't a Blackberry. Fortunately, I live in Atlanta (can't believe I just typed that sentence ...) where AT&T's service is just fine. Anyone who thinks it's bad here should go try to download a 100k photo in NYC on a Monday afternoon. Impossible! I think Starbucks has a better network with their AT&T wifi!

bruinsrme
Oct 6, 2009, 11:35 AM
It was a good message until they stated "Before you pick a phone, pick a network." That would be valid in an iPhone-less world. They would still be selling us phones based on a spinning CGI rendering of a phone's outer shell. "Look! A plastic candy bar! You like candy, don't you? Then you'll love our rectangular phone! Brand new features like rounded edges and three colors!"

Apple changed the game. The device should now be the focus. The service should be an afterthought in the background.

Why would anyone by something as expensive as an iPhone if the coverage is not as good As another carrier or existan at all? Yeah I want to pay $90 a month for a phone that doesn't work well in the area I spent most of my time in.

Daiden
Oct 6, 2009, 11:36 AM
AT&T drops a ton of calls in my area, but it's no different than when I used Verizon.

TuckBodi
Oct 6, 2009, 11:41 AM
The iPhone to Verizon won't happen, especially with the announcement today that Verizon is teaming up with Google and their Android phone. I at first thought the commercial was just a leverage ploy on Verizons part, working on Apple and their negotiations. Now I think it's just the first shot over the bow.

Time to look at unlocking and bailing to T-Mo again and get out of this crap-shoot called AT$T.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091006-709550.html

aeneas07
Oct 6, 2009, 11:46 AM
Getting back to the actual advertisement. What self-respecting advertising professional would use someone else's tagline like that.

I had a few friends watching the football game (where we saw the ad) and half of them thought it was an iphone commercial because they were only half paying attention and heard "there's a map for that".

Pretty shoddy work in my opinion.

TBDNET
Oct 6, 2009, 11:46 AM
First, Apple must build an iPhone that will work on Verizon's CDMA network (iPhone is GSM & HPDA), OR Verizon must upgrade their network to handle GSM/HDMA. I don't thing either will ever happen.

Isn't Verizon's 4G network going to be GSM?

on another note if it is wouldn't their coverage also be spotty?

Drag'nGT
Oct 6, 2009, 12:02 PM
The ad is very good and does point out that AT&T has a long way to go. I'm not sure why AT&T is that far behind but whatever. I still have great phone service with AT&T, almost no dropped calls and the ability to change phones with the swap of a sim card. Life is good. :cool:

greenpaz
Oct 6, 2009, 12:04 PM
Great commecial. Hey, anything that could conceivably light a fire under AT&T is a good thing. I used to have Verizon, and the reception in my house was perfect: I don't recall a single time when a call dropped. Then I bought the iPhone 3GS (which I love) and now I drop calls if I do the unthinkable and walk around the house a bit while I'm on the phone. I'm still happy to have the iPhone, considering how little I actually use the phone portion, but it would be nice if phone service was more reliable even for little ol' me.

tylerhbrown
Oct 6, 2009, 12:05 PM
Except Verizon does that too!!!!

Ahh, no, not really. Or at least not in my experience or that of anyone I know. I have had all three iphones and I love them, but ATT and their admitted 30% call drop rate is truly sad. I never lost calls with Verizon (T-mobile and Sprint we're not great for me, but neither we in the same badness-ballpark as ATT). We need to let Apple know how disappointed we are with ATT. I would gladly pay to get out of my ATT contract and go back to Verizon, if they offered an iphone. Lucky for me, I really like texting (although even those have been failing a lot too lately)

THB

http://thingsithinkithinkithink.blogspot.com/

bruinsrme
Oct 6, 2009, 12:07 PM
The iPhone to Verizon won't happen, especially with the announcement today that Verizon is teaming up with Google and their Android phone. I at first thought the commercial was just a leverage ploy on Verizons part, working on Apple and their negotiations. Now I think it's just the first shot over the bow.

Time to look at unlocking and bailing to T-Mo again and get out of this crap-shoot called AT$T.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091006-709550.html

i have been waiting for that announcement.
The iphone is great but the jailbreaking thing and the efforts made by apple to prevent jailbreaking is wearing.

It will be interesting to see if the jailbreaking community starts to move over to a more open platform (if its more open of course)

Drag'nGT
Oct 6, 2009, 12:08 PM
Isn't Verizon's 4G network going to be GSM?

on another note if it is wouldn't their coverage also be spotty?

Verizon bought many different CDMA companies that didn't take off during the early years of cell phones. Because of that, they have infrastructure that can be upgraded. In other words, they have towers in those areas that shaded red. CDMA or GSM doesn't matter so much as having a tower in the area to put equipment on. So no, the upgrade to 4G will not cause spotty coverage.

ssteve
Oct 6, 2009, 12:18 PM
Except Verizon does that too!!!!

Are you amongst tall buildings when you experience these dropped calls on Verizon? Maybe Verizon drops these calls because of the same reason AT&T does....

Don't get me wrong. I won't get an iPhone until I can get it on Verizon. I live in AZ and there are only two small spots where I ever lose a call and most of the time when I am in these areas, the calls do not drop.

Verizon...Get the iPhone.

aristobrat
Oct 6, 2009, 12:21 PM
ATT and their admitted 30% call drop rate is truly sad.
FWIW, it was a single Apple Genius that made that comment, specifically about AT&T's NYC service. AT&T didn't admit anything.

We need to let Apple know how disappointed we are with ATT.
A great way to let Apple know how disapointed you are with AT&T is to return the device. People that keep the iPhone -- even though AT&T service doesn't work for them -- don't give Apple much incentive to improve things. Apple already got your money.

http://thingsithinkithinkithink.blogspot.com/
Remember to keep that in your signature.

aristobrat
Oct 6, 2009, 12:24 PM
So no, the upgrade to 4G will not cause spotty coverage.
True, but it's not like they're going to flip a switch, and suddenly all of the "red" on the Verizon coverage map (3G) is going to light up "purple" (or whatever color they use for 4G).

Verizon is going to be in the same boat AT&T is -- having to go out and touch each one of those towers... installing new equipment, upgrading backhaul circuits, etc.

Any new "G" coverage is going to start out spotty, and then roll out/fill in. If it's like prior rollouts, major population centers first, rural areas later.

marco114
Oct 6, 2009, 12:26 PM
I have lived in 4 different rural markets and regularly travel between them. Currently, in NC, Verizon is everywhere since they bought out a couple providers like Rural Cellular and I forget the other one.

When I left Verizon, they had full bar 3G coverage at my house. They had just upgraded about 3 months before I went with an iPhone. With AT&T, I need to drive almost 20 miles to even find 3G coverage.

With Verizon, I had a Palm Treo 700 and it was very rare to see even the analog signal at all.

If Apple would make the iPhone for Verizon, i'd switch back in a blink, even if I had to pay early termination, it's that bad. I typically lose between 20-40% of my calls. There is several dead zones too, that I can't even drive down without losing it.

iansilv
Oct 6, 2009, 12:26 PM
Again, I love competition- thank you Verizon.

dynamo22
Oct 6, 2009, 12:26 PM
wow first the Verizon network has the most 3G coverage, now they say that BlackBerry's run better on it too! I think big red is looking really good come December :p

jzuena
Oct 6, 2009, 12:28 PM
First, Apple must build an iPhone that will work on Verizon's CDMA network (iPhone is GSM & HPDA), OR Verizon must upgrade their network to handle GSM/HDMA. I don't thing either will ever happen.

I think first Verizon has to back a truck full of money up to Apple's campus, then Apple has to build a CDMA iPhone :D

spillproof
Oct 6, 2009, 12:29 PM
Getting back to the actual advertisement. What self-respecting advertising professional would use someone else's tagline like that.

I had a few friends watching the football game (where we saw the ad) and half of them thought it was an iphone commercial because they were only half paying attention and heard "there's a map for that".

Pretty shoddy work in my opinion.

I disagree. It is a satirical and pokes fun of AT&T and Apple while giving facts. It gets you to think, which is the goal of an advertisement.

I like this commercial and hope it makes AT&T a little more scared that they are failing. (Or I could be bias for my love of satires and dislike for AT&T :cool:)

I think first Verizon has to back a truck full of money up to Apple's campus, then Apple has to build a CDMA iPhone :D

Just one?

wrlsmarc
Oct 6, 2009, 12:35 PM
Verizon won't have much time to run this commercial. With 3G 850MHz roll-out in full momentum, AT&T will begin to cover more geography quickly.

As for dropped calls, I have dropped calls with all the carriers including Verizon. It is fair to say that AT&T network quality earlier this year did decline substantially as more iPhone's came on the network. In my area, San Francisco, the recent launch of 3G on 850MHz has returned the network to a good quality level. Also, in-building coverage issues for 3G are past.

IMHO, and the way I purchase devices, what I have in my hand is the device that will serve me best. I have tried WinMo, Palm Pre (cheap plastic, a true joke of a device) and Nokia Symbian, Blackberry and Android. The iPhone is the phone I have settled on for the past 2+ years. Pre iPhone, I was always seeking for that once device that met all my needs. I finally have it.

As for you Verizon users, CDMA is a dead end technology that most carriers in the world are abandoning. Look at what's happening up north with Bell and Telus. Over the next couple years, the new phone assortment for Verizon and Sprint will dwindle relative to HSPA. Eventually Verizon will have LTE but they won't have the geographic coverage of their existing network before 2015.

Lots to think about when you choose a network provider or device, huh?

bunty
Oct 6, 2009, 12:36 PM
Doesn't AT&T piggyback on T-mobile's network and vice-versa? Shouldn't the map reflect that?

Cartoonkid
Oct 6, 2009, 12:38 PM
It was a good message until they stated "Before you pick a phone, pick a network." That would be valid in an iPhone-less world. They would still be selling us phones based on a spinning CGI rendering of a phone's outer shell. "Look! A plastic candy bar! You like candy, don't you? Then you'll love our rectangular phone! Brand new features like rounded edges and three colors!"

Apple changed the game. The device should now be the focus. The service should be an afterthought in the background.

+1

I had absolutely no issues with Verizon for over two years, but I ditched them in June to get an iPhone, rather than settle for a Crackberry.

And maybe it's because I live in SoCal, but apparently I'm one of the fortunate few (at least by the sounds of all the grumblings on MR) to have had no problems with AT&T. Admittedly, I don't make a ton of calls, but in the past 3 1/2 months, I've never had a single dropped call.

If Verizon started carrying the iPhone, the only thing that would make me leave AT&T is price.

yg17
Oct 6, 2009, 12:41 PM
AT&T in my area doesn't drop 30% of the calls either, ... and 3G is faster than Verizon, too. Thankfully I don't travel out of my area often. :)

For whatever reason, Sprint and Verizon started deploying their 3G networks about three years before T-Mobile and AT&T did. Nothing T-Mobile and AT&T can do about that now, except let Verizon gloat while they continue to try to play catch-up.

There's a reason for that, less work is required to upgrade a tower from CDMA to EvDO than to upgrade a tower from GSM to UMTS. That's why Verizon and Sprint are ahead in the 3G rollout. But that doesn't change the fact that overall, UMTS is a better technology than EvDO. SIM cards, simultaneous voice and data, global compatibility, etc. Of course, Verizon will never admit that unless you buy one of their expensive world phones, it'll be a worthless brick if you travel outside the US or Canada. With AT&T even their cheapest phones will work just about anywhere in the world.

wrlsmarc
Oct 6, 2009, 12:42 PM
The ad is very misleading because it leaves out any EDGE coverage. T-Mobile and AT&T do not have roaming for 3G HSPA since they each use different frequencies for their 3G netowrks.

Doesn't AT&T piggyback on T-mobile's network and vice-versa? Shouldn't the map reflect that?

aristobrat
Oct 6, 2009, 12:45 PM
There's a reason for that, less work is required to upgrade a tower from CDMA to EvDO than to upgrade a tower from GSM to UMTS. That's why Verizon and Sprint are ahead in the 3G rollout. But that doesn't change the fact that overall, UMTS is a better technology than EvDO. SIM cards, simultaneous voice and data, global compatibility, etc.
Wonder what Sprint/Verizon's upgrade from EvDO to LTE will be like, compared to AT&T/T-Mo's UMTS to LTE upgrade? :confused:

The ad is very misleading because it leaves out any EDGE coverage..
The ad is just comparing 3G to 3G, so 1x/EDGE doesn't count.

VenusianSky
Oct 6, 2009, 12:47 PM
Before you pick a phone, pick a network.

This was the funniest part of the fine print. Too bad for Verizon that the customers they lost to AT&T didn't pick the network over the phone. Instead of fine print, they should make that their slogan. Too bad it won't matter. iPhone trumps call quality.

ImageWrangler
Oct 6, 2009, 12:54 PM
AT&T is evil, let's get that out of the way, so if the iPhone came to a different network I'd be all over that like, well, like a person that thinks AT&T is evil and hates sleeping with the devil.

That said, some of the peeps defending Verizon also beg a chuckle. Evil? No, not that I'm aware of. But super stellar league of awesome as many are implying? Uhhh, no, definitely not.

My sig other has Verizon with a (semi)smart phone, and I have AT&T with the iPhone. At home she can only make calls from the kitchen as her signal goes in and out, I get five bars of 3G anywhere in the house, in the basement, the barn, the garage. We leave the house and travel west she goes to analog then no service, I'm fine however. There is a bizarrre dead zone near where we live where I do go to EDGE for a bit, but otherwise fine. NYC where I'm from, in the city, full bars, but yes, dropped calls, but my friends there regardless of network complain about it. Think about it, big steel buildings in concrete canyons where you can't make sight-line with any cell array, many of which are tacked on buildings (ugly as that is), c'mon, get serious. And her Verizon drops calls in NYC same rate I do only I get a stronger signal.

So half of this "Verizon is teh godz herherher" is kinda overblown here. Decent I'm sure, sup0r awesome as some are saying? Uh, no, not hardly.

That said I'd welcome the option even though, sadly, with Verizon's spotty coverage all over upstate New York probably sadly would have to stay with AT&T until VERIZON got better service.

co.ag.2005
Oct 6, 2009, 12:55 PM
Well back in December 2008 people were telling me that AT&T and Verizon both dropped calls and had problems and whatnot so it's really all the same.

Since then my AT&T service has gotten 4 times worse.

Are you telling me that Verizon got 4 times worse over the last year too?? This is the first I've heard of that.

FWIW, ATT service has gotten 4 times better for me (ok, maybe not 4 times, but at least 2 times. new 3G tower right by my house :D). If ATT sucks so bad for you, go to VZW.

bastiangatten
Oct 6, 2009, 01:02 PM
I have tried Verizon. It sucks. Even with the discount I get for working for GM it still sucks. Droped calls all the time. Half the time the conversation cut in and out and both sides would have to repeat their selves. And their customer service sucked too.

I have had no problems with AT&T and have had great customer service. I think ill keep my network.

phineas
Oct 6, 2009, 01:20 PM
Isn't Verizon's 4G network going to be GSM?

on another note if it is wouldn't their coverage also be spotty?

I believe the way to say it is LTE, which boils down to GSM and yes there supposed to start in 2010

phineas
Oct 6, 2009, 01:22 PM
I have tried Verizon. It sucks. Even with the discount I get for working for GM it still sucks. Droped calls all the time. Half the time the conversation cut in and out and both sides would have to repeat their selves. And their customer service sucked too.

I have had no problems with AT&T and have had great customer service. I think ill keep my network.

Dropped calls can also be from the equipment, and not just the carrier

snowmoon
Oct 6, 2009, 01:26 PM
The ad is just comparing 3G to 3G, so 1x/EDGE doesn't count.

There are 2 gaping holes in this commercial. Looking at the map I'm positive Verizon is counting 1xRTT in their footprint, just like they have stopped giving a breakdown on their coverage map by calling all data access "Broadband". They are also using some weird algorithm for their map as looking at even basic phone coverage 50% or more of upstate NY should be white. Not because Verizon's got a bad network, but because it's wilderness and farm country.

Unfortunately none of the YouTube videos clearly show the weaselease at the end of the commercial that I'm sure will show how they have manipulated this map.

macfan881
Oct 6, 2009, 01:38 PM
Verizon Still SUCKS over ATT though mainly for two reasons A. They Cripple the phones beyond belife and 2 there lovely UI is disgusting

snowmoon
Oct 6, 2009, 01:41 PM
Verizon Still SUCKS over ATT though mainly for two reasons A. They Cripple the phones beyond belife and 2 there lovely UI is disgusting

Don't forget non-simultaneous voice and data. You can not look up something while on a call.

Rodimus Prime
Oct 6, 2009, 02:22 PM
It was a good message until they stated "Before you pick a phone, pick a network." That would be valid in an iPhone-less world. They would still be selling us phones based on a spinning CGI rendering of a phone's outer shell. "Look! A plastic candy bar! You like candy, don't you? Then you'll love our rectangular phone! Brand new features like rounded edges and three colors!"

Apple changed the game. The device should now be the focus. The service should be an afterthought in the background.

No the add is right. To many people drool over apple so they go with ATT. If you picked AT&T for the iPhone and knew the service was spotty in your area you loose all right to complain about it.

The smart people out there first pick a network that offers them the price they want and the coverage. Then your worry about what phone to get. The iPhone is not game changing and it sure as hell is not THAT much better any more with all the other phones hitting the market.

As for the add that was the exact reason why I left them. Verizon had crappy service out in Lubbock Texas and lied about them moving there network out there. They told us 6 months and that 6 months claim turn was not filled 4 years later of course I left at the end of the first year when my contract was up. I switch to AT&T because service was great there and in Houston so I choose them. I choose a network that works were I lived and spend my time.

They are correct choose a network then worry about your phone. Apple Fan seem to not understand that.


I have lived in 4 different rural markets and regularly travel between them. Currently, in NC, Verizon is everywhere since they bought out a couple providers like Rural Cellular and I forget the other one.

When I left Verizon, they had full bar 3G coverage at my house. They had just upgraded about 3 months before I went with an iPhone. With AT&T, I need to drive almost 20 miles to even find 3G coverage.

With Verizon, I had a Palm Treo 700 and it was very rare to see even the analog signal at all.

If Apple would make the iPhone for Verizon, i'd switch back in a blink, even if I had to pay early termination, it's that bad. I typically lose between 20-40% of my calls. There is several dead zones too, that I can't even drive down without losing it.

Well sorry you have no right to complain your dropped calls. You CHOOSE to go with AT&T for the iPhone knowing these problems are in your area. You ACCEPTED that as part of the problem. I recommend you go back to Verizon as soon as your contract is up.
The iPhone is NOT that great. Good phone but not some super phone that is poor local network.

rjohnstone
Oct 6, 2009, 02:23 PM
Are you amongst tall buildings when you experience these dropped calls on Verizon? Maybe Verizon drops these calls because of the same reason AT&T does....

Don't get me wrong. I won't get an iPhone until I can get it on Verizon. I live in AZ and there are only two small spots where I ever lose a call and most of the time when I am in these areas, the calls do not drop.

Verizon...Get the iPhone.
You must not live in north Phoenix.
Verizon blows up here. Even the company I work for, who had a Verizon contract for years, dropped them and went to AT&T. We got tired of missing calls and text alerts when a system went down.

And no, we don't use iPhones either. Only Nokia, Samsung or Blackberry phones.

Liquorpuki
Oct 6, 2009, 02:31 PM
When I was on Verizon, I could drive from Silicon Valley down to LA and not get dropped once.

Now that I'm on AT&T, on my 40 mile drive home on the 101 from downtown LA to the West Valley, I regularly get dropped 2 to 3 times - usually at the Lankershim and Winnetka exits.

It is what it is

Konz
Oct 6, 2009, 02:33 PM
Looks more deceptive than factual. I'm sure Verizon is being very generous with the definition of "3G coverage" for their own network while doing just the opposite with AT&T's.

Neither carrier actually has a 3G coverage map available on their website.

A little fishy? Me thinks.... :confused:

trunkster
Oct 6, 2009, 02:47 PM
Verizon really doesn't offer any good phones. The phones with cheap data plans can hardly handle the processing speed of loading the websites so sure it's 3G, it will load just as slow as edge.

tbrinkma
Oct 6, 2009, 03:02 PM
The 30% figure was for users in the NYC METRO area. People just don't read anything anymore except snippets and headlines.
Also, very recently another frequency spectrum was rolled out in certain markets, Including NYC which should improve performance.

Verizon has its own problems too. And iphone users actually surf the net lol.

More than that, the 30% figure was for *one* user in the NYC METRO area. The tech support response in question was from an *APPLE* tech, commenting that the hardware of the phone itself appeared to be operating within expected parameters. The user was complaining about a high level of dropped calls. There didn't appear to be anything from AT&T, much less a statement that 30% dropped calls is normal or expected.

slamshut
Oct 6, 2009, 03:09 PM
For me service is good even tho it got alittle spotty when att allowed picture & video text. An in my area its getting better. If you drop your service that mean less congestion on the att network. :D An as far as the iphone on verizon I really dont think there network would work the same with the iphone. It will be overload.

Dmac77
Oct 6, 2009, 03:21 PM
I honestly don't understand why people are always complaining about AT&T. I and no one else that I know has ever had an issue with AT&T in our area (Ann Arbor, MI). But everyone who has Verizon has issues.

We used to be on Verizon, and we would always get dropped calls. And my friends who are still on Verizon still drop calls all the time.

It's the same if I drive out into the middle of nowhere. (Which me as some friends did recently). I had 3G coverage in the middle of nowhere, but my friend on Verizon had no coverage at all.

And the funny thing is that according to the maps, Verizon is supposed to have better 3G coverage in my area which is total BS.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention the crappy customer service from Verizon. Like the manager at a Verizon store telling my mom to ****** off and die, because she was pissed that there had been a service outage for over a week.

AT&T will bend over backwards for us though. The one time we had a problem (a day long outage) they prorated 25% of our bill for that month, without us even asking.

Don

amusedchimp
Oct 6, 2009, 03:25 PM
i live in the san francisco bay area ---berkeley.
3 years of verizon service >>dropped calls were virtually non-existent
and the only place i couldn't get service was on trips to the russian river.

at first my iphone/att worked pretty well in my home
now...after 1 year the signal in my home has continuously degraded
and become sporadic
my dropped call rate at home has consistently increased
>well over 30% even when the signal indication looks good.

reception and call retention in the city is spotty at best

even if this is just due to a dramatic increase in the use of their network ..
that just means that att has sold services they can't provide.

I really love my iphone and am sorely regretting that i'm going to have to give it up because of att's unacceptable lack of reliable service

aristobrat
Oct 6, 2009, 03:28 PM
i live in the san francisco bay area ---berkeley.
<snip>
I really love my iphone and am sorely regretting that i'm going to have to give it up because of att's unacceptable lack of reliable service
Yeah, you live in one of the two cities that AT&T repeatedly admits it's screwed up ... SF and NYC. :eek:

A little over two weeks ago, AT&T started turning on 3G coverage on their 850mhz frequency, which has greater range. Hopefully that will impact your service positively.

http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=4718

Beric
Oct 6, 2009, 03:34 PM
Verizon has the best service, AT&T has the best phones.

You win and lose either way.

zombitronic
Oct 6, 2009, 03:42 PM
No the add is right. To many people drool over apple so they go with ATT. If you picked AT&T for the iPhone and knew the service was spotty in your area you loose all right to complain about it.

The smart people out there first pick a network that offers them the price they want and the coverage. Then your worry about what phone to get. The iPhone is not game changing and it sure as hell is not THAT much better any more with all the other phones hitting the market.

As for the add that was the exact reason why I left them. Verizon had crappy service out in Lubbock Texas and lied about them moving there network out there. They told us 6 months and that 6 months claim turn was not filled 4 years later of course I left at the end of the first year when my contract was up. I switch to AT&T because service was great there and in Houston so I choose them. I choose a network that works were I lived and spend my time.

They are correct choose a network then worry about your phone. Apple Fan seem to not understand that.

I still disagree with you. The device is material. The network is supposed to be invisible. You're not supposed to notice the network. AT&T's service isn't great, but I'll put up with it to use the device of my choice.

The mobile industry has a strange business model compared to other industries. You don't buy a desktop computer that you can only use on one ISP or a car that you can only fill up at particular gas stations (excluding electric). However, If these industries were to operate this way, I still think people would go for the product over the commodity.

To me, and apparently many others, mobile service is just a commodity. Some may be a bit better than others, but in the end you're getting a comparable service. The devices, on the other hand, vary. And, yes, I still think the iPhone was game changing. All I remember before January 2007 were RAZRs and Chocolates. Unintuitive text-based interfaces with linear button-mashing controls in a hyped-up shell.

VenusianSky
Oct 6, 2009, 03:47 PM
Former Verizon, unhappy AT&T customers...

It is impossible to argue that Verizon would be better if it had the iPhone. We will never know the answer to such a question unless exclusivity goes over to Verizon. If Verizon would have got the iPhone deal instead of AT&T, thousands and thousands (whatever the number may be) of cusomters would have left AT&T, Sprint, etc. to join up with Vierzon just to get an iPhone. The networks may or may not have become over-saturated with the additional cusomters. We will never know. So if you are really that unhappy with AT&T's service, go back to Verizon. I'm sure they would welcome you back with open arms. I personally couldn't imagine paying for such terrible service if I were in that situation. AT&T's service just happens to be great in my area.

lazyrighteye
Oct 6, 2009, 04:03 PM
I have used every major U.S. carrier except Sprint. I have used every iteration of iPhone since the original's launch date - which also represented my 1st experience with AT&T.

Until the 1st iPhone 3G, I had no issues with AT&T and their Edge network - namely because it's speed (or lack there of) was all we iPhone users knew at the time. Often calling AT&T my favorite service provider to date. And at the time, that was true. But once the 1st iPhone 3G hit, it started to become apparent that AT&T's network was not up to task. And as the popularity of the device grew, so too did my frustration with AT&T's network.

Living in Denver, CO, my (and several other users I know) 3G experience has been so poor, my dropped call frequency so high, that I had (yes, past tense - I'm getting there) disabled 3G most of the time. Of the two places I spend 80% of my life - work & home - neither offered a scenario that allowed me to use my iPhone for sending/receiving phone calls (let alone data). Zero bars of 3G and maybe a nub of Edge. At best. And that's having a giant AT&T logo'd tower in line-of-sight of my house and STILL can't send/receive phone calls form home. And mine and my wife's iPhones our only phones, this has been a really big problem for us. and what's been almost more frustrating than dropping all of my calls has been that all along I have upheld my end of the bargain. Every month, in full & on time, I pay our 2-iPhone Family Plan. But AT&T has not upheld their end of the bargain. A major aspect of the device, 3G, is virtually unusable to users in Denver (and other major markets). Dozens of fairly cordial calls (yes, I've been told by an AT&T rep that I'm "always polite" and that "yes, we do denote callers' behavior") to AT&T yielded the same, "we're sorry" replies. One even crediting my account for a full month of service. Nice, but that doesn't make my phone work any better. Another call to AT&T, that dropped, saw the rep called back to leave me a 4-minute message about how sorry she was about my horrible experience. Saying, on record, that their network "sucked," that they receive "a lot of calls about this from their iPhone customers." Even offering me the option to walk from my contract sans penalty. And that's when it hit me... wow - if one of AT&T's contingency plans is to bad mouth their own network and then allow iPhone customers to break their contracts, then this was a much larger issue than I realized.

And all of that set up was meant to paint a picture. One that many of you are all too familiar with. Same story, different city. So, with as much AT&T bashing as I have done over the past couple of years, I think it only fair/I'm happy to report that it appears AT&T has fixed their 3G issue in Denver. Monday morning, I woke to 5 glorious bars of 3G at home. I even shut down my iPhone & rebooted to make sure it was really there. Sure enough, glory! And from work I was able to make several phone calls with no issue. Confused by a functional AT&T network, I called AT&T and asked why everything was working. With a chuckle, the rep sad it appeared the network was upgraded in my area (seemed a canned line, but hey - I'll take it.). So here I am - day 2 of full 3G service at home, at work, all over town. Sounds silly, but it's really nice when your network... works. Considering my only gripe with my iPhone experience has been the service provider (yeah, a big gripe), it now appears the Denver's coverage is finally working as advertised. While the rep wasn't able to uncover exactly what "your network was updated" meant, I wonder if it's the new spectrum upgrade we've been hearing/reading about? Any other Denver (or other troubled markets) users notice the improved, read: functinoal, AT&T network? Pretty nice, eh?

So when I saw the Verizon "Coverage Maps" commercial Monday eve, it was oddly refrehing to find I wasn't yelling "YEAH! STUPID AT&T!" while waving my fist at the tv and instead able to turn off said tv and call my recently widowed mother who lives 2,000 miles from Denver - something I hadn't been able to do, from home, in 2 years. Ahh the simple pleasures...

Here's hope others' coverage improves as well.

DUSTmurph
Oct 6, 2009, 04:14 PM
very original commercial.

GutBomb
Oct 6, 2009, 04:16 PM
but ATT and their admitted 30% call drop rate is truly sad.

AT&T never admitted to 30% call drop rate. An employee at an apple store told a customer that in the NYC area at&t drops 30% of it's calls. And the internet ran wild with it. It was anecdotal evidence, not hard facts and detailed research, not from at&t, and about the NYC phone network, not about the nationwide network. It was an offhand comment by an apple store employee.

But we wouldn't want to get our facts straight now would we?

Rodimus Prime
Oct 6, 2009, 04:25 PM
I still disagree with you. The device is material. The network is supposed to be invisible. You're not supposed to notice the network. AT&T's service isn't great, but I'll put up with it to use the device of my choice.

The mobile industry has a strange business model compared to other industries. You don't buy a desktop computer that you can only use on one ISP or a car that you can only fill up at particular gas stations (excluding electric). However, If these industries were to operate this way, I still think people would go for the product over the commodity.

To me, and apparently many others, mobile service is just a commodity. Some may be a bit better than others, but in the end you're getting a comparable service. The devices, on the other hand, vary. And, yes, I still think the iPhone was game changing. All I remember before January 2007 were RAZRs and Chocolates. Unintuitive text-based interfaces with linear button-mashing controls in a hyped-up shell.


I think your arugument would be valid if phones were not subsudized and you have to buy them at full price. Because AT&T in this case is paying Apple $400 per phone you should choose a network first.

If ISP were footing the bill for desktop then Verizon add still would work but for cell phones most of the cost of the phone is paid by the networks. Not the other way around.

zombitronic
Oct 6, 2009, 04:47 PM
I think your arugument would be valid if phones were not subsudized and you have to buy them at full price. Because AT&T in this case is paying Apple $400 per phone you should choose a network first.

If ISP were footing the bill for desktop then Verizon add still would work but for cell phones most of the cost of the phone is paid by the networks. Not the other way around.

My original iPhone was not subsidized and I had to buy it at full price. I chose the device with no qualms about what network I was required to use.

While the iPhone is now subsidized, so are many other phones on many other networks. If only certain networks were doing this to add value to choosing their contracts, I could understand your point of choosing the network before the device. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't understand how this changes my argument that the service is just a commodity while the device is the consumer's primary choice.

McBeats
Oct 6, 2009, 04:49 PM
No the add is right. To many people drool over apple so they go with ATT. If you picked AT&T for the iPhone and knew the service was spotty in your area you loose all right to complain about it.


i get what your sayin, but nah, they can still complain all they want... i dont think it says in the contract be expected to have 30% dropped calls.

people complain not only to relieve themselves, but to eventually get whats right. (complaining on macrumors isnt exactly the best way of going about it, ill give you that)

Lancetx
Oct 6, 2009, 04:53 PM
Obviously YMMV, but I've never had any significant issues at all with AT&T's service in the nearly 2 1/2 years since I switched to them for the original iPhone. The same has continued since I upgraded to the 3GS as well. Verizon doesn't have the iPhone and won't be getting it anytime soon (if ever), so they're not on my radar screen anyway. And even if they did ever add the iPhone at some point, I doubt I'd ever switch because my own personal experience with Verizon's service several years ago was that it was absolutely dreadful.

ElBerserko
Oct 6, 2009, 05:15 PM
I spend at least 98% of my time in AT&T 3G coverage areas. While Verizon's coverage map may look impressive with their sea of red, they seem to be forgetting that dirt can't use 3G.

Rodimus Prime
Oct 6, 2009, 05:47 PM
My original iPhone was not subsidized and I had to buy it at full price. I chose the device with no qualms about what network I was required to use.

While the iPhone is now subsidized, so are many other phones on many other networks. If only certain networks were doing this to add value to choosing their contracts, I could understand your point of choosing the network before the device. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't understand how this changes my argument that the service is just a commodity while the device is the consumer's primary choice.

I think the biggest problem is when Apple had the chance to change the game by not doing subizided cost they instead give in and just make it worse by forcing a much larger than average subsudize on there phone ($400 vs $250).

Unlock phones puts the network and the phone separete. But as long as it is lock in together it should be choose network first

i get what your sayin, but nah, they can still complain all they want... i dont think it says in the contract be expected to have 30% dropped calls.

people complain not only to relieve themselves, but to eventually get whats right. (complaining on macrumors isnt exactly the best way of going about it, ill give you that)

Well the people who choose the iPhone knowing service are spotty put the label on them as not smart.
Smart people look things over and choose what works best for them. For me I know service is the first thing I look at and that is how I got to ATT (Cingular at the time )for my phone and dump Verizon. Verizon service was crap where I was 6 months out of the year. Sprint and Cingular/ATT were king in that area. I used Sprint for a while and it was great. Switch to ATT because most of my friends and family were on it so M2M.

Either way I choose the service first then pick out the phones from there.

MacFly123
Oct 6, 2009, 05:50 PM
T-Mo may have screwed the pooch on their 3G rollout, but my phone doesn't drop 30% of my calls. It'll be interesting to see how ATT, and TMo keep up with the 3G coverage, as Verizon and Sprint move forward.

My iPhone never drops calls and hasnt since after the first few months the 3G luanched. But I am not in New York or California! :p

I did have a hard time sending MMS the week it launched. Lots of sending errors. And tethering...... how about that AT&T? :rolleyes:

I want another US carrier to get the iPhone, if for no other reasons than to just spur competition and get a big load off of the AT&T network.

MacTribune
Oct 6, 2009, 06:23 PM
...where everyone lives, and I must be one of the few lucky ones, but I have minimal interruptions when it comes to calls, data, and other AT&T services. With honesty I can count on my fingers how many times I had my calls dropped... and out of the hundreds of calls I make a month the number over the course of a 6 month period is so minuscule that it is not even worth mentioning.

I switched to an iphone (was already an AT&T customer) the day it first came out (yes I was the loser waiting in line on day one), and painfully paid the upgrade price for every subsequent upgrade to both 3G and 3GS (upgraded my personal phone to 3GS this week)

I live in the Los Angeles area and have not had any problems with dropped calls... I do have data access issues when driving outside of Los Angeles, but I usually don't drive and read emails :p

I will not make AT&T all good... upgrade pricing is horrible :mad:, their billing is horrible :mad:, the price for their services is high in comparison to other providers, their customer service is also a bit retarded (sorry) however coverage is something I have been lucky with ... :rolleyes:

aristobrat
Oct 6, 2009, 06:32 PM
I think the biggest problem is when Apple had the chance to change the game by not doing subizided cost they instead give in and just make it worse by forcing a much larger than average subsudize on there phone ($400 vs $250).

Unlock phones puts the network and the phone separete.
I'm not sure why you think Apple's original iPhone sales model was changing the game.

The customer paid the full price of the iPhone, the iPhone was still locked to a specific carrier, and the carrier agreed to pay Apple monthly for every iPhone customer they had.

On top of that, AT&T created a special, cheaper data plan to lure customers in, as the full-priced phone was very off-putting to some.

Sounds like the original iPhone ended up costing AT&T more than the subsidy on the iPhone 3G/3GS did.

And why did Apple change its original sales model? Because they weren't selling nearly as fast as Apple had hoped.

I agree with you that being able to buy any phone and have it work on any network would be awesome. Logistically, I just don't ever see it happening.

MacToddB
Oct 6, 2009, 06:43 PM
Getting back to the actual advertisement. What self-respecting advertising professional would use someone else's tagline like that.

I had a few friends watching the football game (where we saw the ad) and half of them thought it was an iphone commercial because they were only half paying attention and heard "there's a map for that".

Pretty shoddy work in my opinion.

Seems like it worked. Got a lot of people talking about it, razzing on AT&T and saying good for them (Verizon). On an Apple forum no less. Mission accomplished.

iceman1234
Oct 6, 2009, 06:51 PM
I spend at least 98% of my time in AT&T 3G coverage areas. While Verizon's coverage map may look impressive with their sea of red, they seem to be forgetting that dirt can't use 3G.

Yea I haven't been to half (ok 100%) the places were verizon 1-ups Att... Plus verizon turned off all the cell sites in my area so I was forced to leave Big Red!

K3mp
Oct 6, 2009, 07:01 PM
AT&T really needs to update their coverage map I have 3G where the map says I should barley have Edge. I do agree that the commercial is good in all BUT IN MY EXPERIENCE AT&T has always had great coverage where Verizon did not have any. The only time Verizon has had better coverage was during a Cat 4 and 5 Hurricane which I can live with.

JBaker122586
Oct 6, 2009, 07:27 PM
Getting back to the actual advertisement. What self-respecting advertising professional would use someone else's tagline like that.

I had a few friends watching the football game (where we saw the ad) and half of them thought it was an iphone commercial because they were only half paying attention and heard "there's a map for that".

Pretty shoddy work in my opinion.

As an advertising professional with no prior knowledge of this ad, I can tell you that this advertisement was almost certainly pushed by the client rather than the agency. Clients often obsess about responding to competitors' ads, even when it's not the best decision strategically or creatively.

iphones4evry1
Oct 6, 2009, 07:49 PM
Good !
I'm getting sick and tired of AT&T's decline in coverage and spotty coverage. When I had my RAZR phone, I used to have great coverage everywhere on AT&T, but over the past year AT&T's coverage and quality of coverage has declined BIG TIME. I'm sick and tired of it! I hope Verizon launches a HUGE campaign showing all the spots on the map where AT&T has lousy coverage and it motivates AT&T to get off their laurels and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!! :mad::mad::mad:

tempusfugit
Oct 6, 2009, 07:58 PM
ATT is unbelievably good in Minneapolis, but my long drives to and from chicago are marked by a whole lot of EDGE which sucks!

alexbates
Oct 6, 2009, 08:06 PM
That has to be the best Verizon commercial ever! :D I am now really convinced that I should switch from AT&T.

tscott467
Oct 6, 2009, 08:16 PM
It's a really good Verizon commercial, but going back to the fact that AT&T has a better network than Verizon? No way. If you mean better by having an overall slower 3G network, dropped calls, booted of the network, and having horrible coverage? Yeah then it's better. Apple would do alot better on Verizon's network due to the fact that Verizon's network can handle the MMS, and 100,000 iPhones using the same network in a square mile. AT&T, can't. They were so worried that the MMS would be too much for their network.

I love Apple, but not AT&T.

kdarling
Oct 6, 2009, 08:22 PM
Isn't Verizon's 4G network going to be GSM?

Nope.

Verizon is overlaying their CDMA network with LTE, which is a totally new protocol that has to be backfitted to work with any older system.

Many GSM carriers had already chosen LTE as their 4G protocol. This is what confused casual observers. However, CDMA carriers are implementing it first and therefore defining many of the details.

Verizon will continue to use CDMA for voice, and for data for lesser powered devices, for many years to come.

LTE will mostly be used at first by Verizon as sort of a wireless FiOS. It's far more likely that we'll first see an LTE Apple tablet, than an LTE Apple phone. I'd love to see Apple come out with something that allows video calls. LTE would be perfect for that.

on another note if it is wouldn't their coverage also be spotty?

Verizon says they're moving up LTE deployment and want to hit all the major markets (100 million) almost all at once in 2010. So yes, it would be mostly cities until they finish up in late 2013.

But again, LTE probably wouldn't be wasted on voice or handhelds, not for a long while. Both CDMA and GSM carriers want to get their money's worth out of their original networks.

carmenodie
Oct 6, 2009, 08:32 PM
Seriously, what is it with verizon?! They didn't want they iphone b/c it came with features out the box that Apple wasn't going to cripple so verizon could charge their premiums for it(V Cast my a**). Now with so many defectors heading to at&t they
see now what the consumer wants and will go where ever the best deal is. Like it or hate it the iphone is a freaking hit. Home run out the park. Balco juiced or au natural the darn thing is the s***!!!
I have the 3GS and there ain't nothing out there like. NOTHING!!!!!!
Now if only Apple would put gaming controls on the touch. You'd see the psp and the pspgo retail for $19.99. You know I'm right. And don't forget the dual analog sticks. OH LAWD! Sony would just die.

PinkyMacGodess
Oct 6, 2009, 09:23 PM
Well if Verizon hadn't been so crazy to try to corn hole Apple over the features of the iPhone and cause Apple to walk from the discussions, it would be a nearly bankrupt AT&T with their nose pressed against the glass saying that the iPhone sucks...

Sure, I have issues with AT&T's service. Sure there are times when I use AT&T's name in vain. I swore more when I found out that my Verizon phone with bluetooth would have more features on someone elses cell phone network and that the 'brain drain' at Verizon ordered certain features removed from the phone on their network! Yeah, Verizon has ZERO room to talk. They coulda had the iPhone... Hah!

LEStudios
Oct 6, 2009, 10:14 PM
Wait, you mean that grass on the other side isn't actually greener it's just painted green?!?!?! ;)

Welcome to the real world! :D

x86isslow
Oct 6, 2009, 10:30 PM
The device should now be the focus. The service should be an afterthought in the background.

that's called an iPod touch - not a phone

Arcady
Oct 6, 2009, 10:44 PM
I don't understand people who point a video camera at their TV and record it, then upload that video to YouTube. If they can figure out how to connect the camera to the computer, why can't they figure out how to connect the TV?

kdarling
Oct 6, 2009, 11:35 PM
Seriously, what is it with verizon?! They didn't want they iphone b/c it came with features out the box that Apple wasn't going to cripple so verizon could charge their premiums for it..

Well if Verizon hadn't been so crazy to try to corn hole Apple over the features of the iPhone and cause Apple to walk from the discussions, it would be a nearly bankrupt AT&T with their nose pressed against the glass saying that the iPhone sucks...

You might want to read articles like this one (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/01/29/verizon_passed_on_exclusive_5_year_iphone_deal.html).

It was Apple that wanted extra control and money. And they didn't walk away for a very lonnng time. They spent a year, off and on, trying to get Verizon to agree to their terms.

There was no animosity. No fights. None of the fantasy drama you read about on fanboy sites.

Verizon almost certainly never even saw an iPhone. (Even ATT didn't until months later.) Perhaps if they had, things could've turned out differently.

MacFan782040
Oct 6, 2009, 11:53 PM
I have to say-- I was with Verizon for 4 years before getting the iPhone. I *knew* (meaning I told myself prior to) that getting the iPhone would mean worse service and coverage, but I bit the bullet and went with it anyway.

Having said that, AT&T has not been nearly as bad as I imagined. Hardly any dropped calls, and although coverage was a little better with Verizon, there are actually several places I get AT&T service now that I did not with Verizon. So it's pretty even I'd say.

The only issue I have sometimes is when I'm at like a sporting event or something in Philly I can sometimes not get service because of network overload.

TripHop
Oct 7, 2009, 05:40 AM
First, Apple must build an iPhone that will work on Verizon's CDMA network (iPhone is GSM & HPDA), OR Verizon must upgrade their network to handle GSM/HDMA. I don't thing either will ever happen.The former or both has to happen by next summer because there's no way Apple is going to continue letting AT&T keep their iPhone exclusivity past next July. In other markets where iPhones are being sold by multiple carriers, the iPhone's market share is radically higher. The same thing will happen here as soon as all the carriers are allowed to sell them.

We're still at the beginning of this device's history. Imagine what it'll be like next Summer when there are 150,000 applications for the next version 4 iPhone with a dual core ARM processor running @ 1.6GHz with 64GB of RAM on board. ;) :D

CaryMacGuy
Oct 7, 2009, 07:14 AM
I used to live in Ithaca, NY and drove 45 miles to work up to Seneca Falls, going through much wilderness and nothingness. Throughout the drive, with Verizon not only would I have coverage but I would have 3G coverage most of the way. With AT&T, no only did I not have 3G coverage (about 1 mile outside of Ithaca) but much of the drive, I had no coverage at all.

That is just one example. Part of me wants to cancel AT&T and use my iPhone as a standalone iPod Touch device.

TraceyS/FL
Oct 7, 2009, 07:40 AM
I haven't read the thread..... but i had my first Verizon issue on monday. In my area i couldn't make a call.... i finally when to the Verizon store to see what was up.

48 towers down.
36 towers up.

And a ever so wonderful :rolleyes: saleslady that had the personality of a..... anyway, she was very rude about it. In fact, i told her, "Hey, drop the attitude, i'm a non-contract customer - don't make me want to walk elsewhere."

The analogy i used regarding her.... couldn't sell water to a fish. UGH.

It's been the only major issue with Verizon in the 15 years we've been with them really.... and it wouldn't have been as bad if my stupid Comcast internet had been functional. IT's been up and down since Saturday and i'm starting to lose it.

ANYWAY, the coverage map is the first thing i tell people to check when asking for input on a carrier. Then ask people you know how their coverage is where you live. It's the only thing that matters.....

gamezealot
Oct 7, 2009, 08:05 AM
Too bad that Map is a load of BS... I live in Coral Springs FL, just north of Ft Lauderdale... Verizons map says there is 3g coverage there... In my house and anywhere around my house i get 1 bar.... 1 lowzy bar!!! I switched back to AT&T and whoa, 5 bars, full signal, all the time! I don't understand why people bitch about AT&T... No phone company is any better... They all suck... Pull your panties up and move on...

kdarling
Oct 7, 2009, 08:44 AM
Surprised this hasn't been noted here yet...

USAToday interviewed (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2009-10-06-verizon-google-android_N.htm)the Verizon Wireless CEO about their new Android partnership, and got an extra comment:

Meantime, (the CEO) says, the carrier is continuing to talk with Apple about bringing the iPhone to Verizon. McAdam says Verizon would love to have the device, anytime Apple is ready. "It's up to them to decide."

Until then, he says, the two companies are having "lots of discussions" about Verizon's network and how it might affect Apple.

Real, or just pushing ATT's buttons so they have to pay Apple more? Who knows.

phineas
Oct 7, 2009, 09:04 AM
Surprised this hasn't been noted here yet...

USAToday interviewed (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2009-10-06-verizon-google-android_N.htm)the Verizon Wireless CEO about their new Android partnership, and got an extra comment:



Real, or just pushing ATT's buttons so they have to pay Apple more? Who knows.

Hopefully its real, and Apple does bring the iPhone over too Verizon.

phineas
Oct 7, 2009, 09:17 AM
Too bad that Map is a load of BS... I live in Coral Springs FL, just north of Ft Lauderdale... Verizons map says there is 3g coverage there... In my house and anywhere around my house i get 1 bar.... 1 lowzy bar!!! I switched back to AT&T and whoa, 5 bars, full signal, all the time! I don't understand why people bitch about AT&T... No phone company is any better... They all suck... Pull your panties up and move on...

I dare say that different technology's i.e. GSM vs CDMA could also be the problem in your area.

When I had Verizon, the worse and only problem was with a Razor the tech was an idiot........... Other than that very very stable network, cannot say that for AT&T

zombitronic
Oct 7, 2009, 01:16 PM
The device should now be the focus. The service should be an afterthought in the background.

that's called an iPod touch - not a phone

The iPod touch does not apply. We're talking about an equation of device > service vs. service > device. You're talking about a device without any service.

PeterQVenkman
Oct 7, 2009, 03:49 PM
I dare say that different technology's i.e. GSM vs CDMA could also be the problem in your area.

When I had Verizon, the worse and only problem was with a Razor the tech was an idiot........... Other than that very very stable network, cannot say that for AT&T

My only problem was with a Razer, also. That phone was unstable as hell. Right now I have an el cheapo phone that is darn near bullet proof and small. Makes great calls.

And it does absolutely nothing else well. ;)

miketcool
Oct 7, 2009, 04:26 PM
For whatever reason, Sprint and Verizon started deploying their 3G networks about three years before T-Mobile and AT&T did. Nothing T-Mobile and AT&T can do about that now, except let Verizon gloat while they continue to try to play catch-up.

I can speak for T-Mo in that they bought their 3G frequency from that public auction. It took the government almost 2 years to move emergency bands off and allow T-Mo to actually use what they bought. The early adopters had an easier transition.

azentropy
Oct 7, 2009, 05:58 PM
Great ad.

I'm still hopeful that when my contract is up next year that I'll have choices than AT&T to get an iPhone on. For the most part AT&T has been fine where I currently live and work. However I'm been looking at homes in a different area of town and noticed I was getting horrible coverage.

blahblah100
Oct 7, 2009, 06:34 PM
Except Verizon does that too!!!!

About 2 months ago I paid an early termination fee and gave up my iPhone because of the dropped calls. I have a Blackberry on Verizon, and consume about 800 minutes a month (peak times, not nights and weekends) and close to 200MB of bandwidth.

I have not had a single dropped call. I can also finally browse the web without Safari crashing all the time.

SFStateStudent
Oct 7, 2009, 11:33 PM
I have not had a single dropped call. I can also finally browse the web without Safari crashing all the time.

Oh yeah; my dad can take your dad 24/7.....lol:p

Does Safari come with your BB?:confused:

mackk
Oct 8, 2009, 10:07 AM
I live in NYC and work in Manhattan every day, and my coverage is fine.
But I have a 1st gen iPhone...

dyler
Oct 8, 2009, 12:50 PM
This is false advertising, Verizon does not have that 3G coverage and ATT has more than that. Verizon is the worst service I have ever used with the worst Phones I have ever used, MY iPhone works in more places than my Verizon phone ever did, this is all lies and Congress should talk about that not exclusive carrier models!!

schwell
Oct 8, 2009, 09:52 PM
You can't get email or surf the web while talking on a Verizon 3G phone. You can on AT&T and T-Mobile.

AT&T should show an empty map for where you can have both on Verizon.

schwell
Oct 8, 2009, 09:56 PM
About 2 months ago I paid an early termination fee and gave up my iPhone because of the dropped calls. I have a Blackberry on Verizon, and consume about 800 minutes a month (peak times, not nights and weekends) and close to 200MB of bandwidth.

I have not had a single dropped call. I can also finally browse the web without Safari crashing all the time.


I would not call looking at the web on a blackberry surfing. It is more like wading in a kiddie pool.

RaZaK
Oct 9, 2009, 11:16 AM
i have no love for Verizon, but that was certainly a hilarious commercial.

I guess 'desperation is the mother of all invention' applies here (i know that's not the correct quote :rolleyes:)

it will be interesting to see what happens next year when exclusivity supposedly ends

it will also be interesting to see if Android gains momentum with support from all the phone carriers.

:D

still, :apple: FTW

beeh
Oct 9, 2009, 11:45 AM
Except Verizon does that too!!!!

We just switched from Verizon to AT&T, I've had more dropped calls in the last two weeks than in six years with Verizon ( probably 1% of my AT&T calls get dropped, so not that bad )...Never had a smartphone with Verizon though, and now on AT&T I use a Nokia E71x ( great phone ), but maybe that's why calls are dropping?

kdarling
Oct 9, 2009, 11:53 AM
Users get less dropped calls (if any) on Verizon than AT&T, partly because Verizon uses CDMA. Put simply:

When a CDMA cell phone switches between towers, it does what is called a "soft handoff". It stays connected to the last tower even as it switches to using the next one.

When a GSM cell phone switches between towers, it does what is called a "hard handoff". It drops the connection to the last tower, and then switches to the next one. If the next connection fails, the call fails.

TonyC28
Oct 11, 2009, 03:50 PM
Pretty funny. One question though: obviously "there's a map for that" is a play-on-words for "there's an app for that." Isn't "there's an app for that" an Apple advertisement? Why take a shot at Apple with a similar phrase when Apple has nothing to do with AT&T's network? It's a clever line in the sense that it mocks another but it seems to miss the target.

MacToddB
Oct 11, 2009, 04:21 PM
Pretty funny. One question though: obviously "there's a map for that" is a play-on-words for "there's an app for that." Isn't "there's an app for that" an Apple advertisement? Why take a shot at Apple with a similar phrase when Apple has nothing to do with AT&T's network? It's a clever line in the sense that it mocks another but it seems to miss the target.

First, to most people, AT&T and Apple are joined at the hip. You can't get the iPhone without AT&T, in the U.S., at least officially. Secondly, it's a dig at Apple and maybe designed to pressure them into breaking the exclusivity deal to make their product look better.

CharBroiled20s
Oct 11, 2009, 04:22 PM
I have lived in 4 different rural markets and regularly travel between them. Currently, in NC, Verizon is everywhere since they bought out a couple providers like Rural Cellular and I forget the other one.

When I left Verizon, they had full bar 3G coverage at my house. They had just upgraded about 3 months before I went with an iPhone. With AT&T, I need to drive almost 20 miles to even find 3G coverage.

With Verizon, I had a Palm Treo 700 and it was very rare to see even the analog signal at all.

If Apple would make the iPhone for Verizon, i'd switch back in a blink, even if I had to pay early termination, it's that bad. I typically lose between 20-40% of my calls. There is several dead zones too, that I can't even drive down without losing it.

I too came from Verizon where I hardly ever dropped a call. I can't remember it ever being a problem. Now I have my second iPhone (first was with tmobile) and I have to say that AT&T is the worst carrier I've ever used. I live in Chicago and not a day goes by where at least 1 call is dropped (usually more than 1).

I'd be right behind you in line at verizon to get one of their iPhones.

AT&T should be penalized for their garbage coverage by apple ripping the exclusivity deal away from them.

We in America would really benefit from legislation that bans anticompetitive exclusivity contracts. Similar laws to that which Europe enjoys would make everyone here a little happier.

Choice is never a bad thing.

schwell
Oct 11, 2009, 08:07 PM
I too came from Verizon where I hardly ever dropped a call. I can't remember it ever being a problem. Now I have my second iPhone (first was with tmobile) and I have to say that AT&T is the worst carrier I've ever used. I live in Chicago and not a day goes by where at least 1 call is dropped (usually more than 1).

I'd be right behind you in line at verizon to get one of their iPhones.

AT&T should be penalized for their garbage coverage by apple ripping the exclusivity deal away from them.

We in America would really benefit from legislation that bans anticompetitive exclusivity contracts. Similar laws to that which Europe enjoys would make everyone here a little happier.

Choice is never a bad thing.

You have hundreds of phone choices.

I doubt the legislation would make people happier. Most of you would find something else to complain about (e.g. price, features).

aokiqiao
Oct 13, 2009, 05:01 PM
After reading the above comments about having dropped calls I can also vouch to say that AT&T's network and or the iphone FAILS at keeping a clear call or even keeping a line at all. The reason I say this is because I've had Alltel up until the switch to verizon since last week. I say up until last week because my contract ended with alltel and I did not want to renew with verzion. I had a dropped call with alltel/verizon maybe every month or two and that was because I was in a room deep inside the hopsital (where I work)where even the radio couldnt get a station. Im not saying its AT&T completely because Ive had multiple coworkers that Ive asked that have both dumbphones and smartphones with AT&T (other than an iphone) and theyve all told me they hardly ever get dropped calls. So it might be both AT&T and Apple that have to work something out to fix this. All I know is when I look at my cities coverage map where the signal should be strongest I know the info is a load of BS. Sometimes I make calls and the persons voice is crackling or theres a voice echo or fades in and out and of course it drops the call. I live in a desert in west texas where its flat, harldy ANY trees or buildings and it still FAILS. Not only that, sometimes Ill be completely still looking at my phone and itll switch from 4 bars of 3G to 2 bars of EDGE to no EDGE back and forth.

Also, sometimes my friends will get just portions (one or two words) of my text messages. This happen to anyone else?

Im on OS 3.1.2

MacU
Oct 13, 2009, 05:53 PM
I have lived in 4 different rural markets and regularly travel between them. Currently, in NC, Verizon is everywhere since they bought out a couple providers like Rural Cellular and I forget the other one.

When I left Verizon, they had full bar 3G coverage at my house. They had just upgraded about 3 months before I went with an iPhone. With AT&T, I need to drive almost 20 miles to even find 3G coverage.

With Verizon, I had a Palm Treo 700 and it was very rare to see even the analog signal at all.

If Apple would make the iPhone for Verizon, i'd switch back in a blink, even if I had to pay early termination, it's that bad. I typically lose between 20-40% of my calls. There is several dead zones too, that I can't even drive down without losing it.


I have to agree with you there. I have an iPhone for personal use and a Verison BB for work. My iPhone works around 20% of the time at my house and it drops calls randomly elsewhere. My BB has full bars at home and I have yet to have a dropped call. We need Apple to take care of its customers by opening the market for Verison and TMobile.

MacU
Oct 13, 2009, 05:55 PM
You have hundreds of phone choices.

I doubt the legislation would make people happier. Most of you would find something else to complain about (e.g. price, features).

Um...Competition will only make things better in a Capitalist market.

Lara F
Oct 17, 2009, 06:40 PM
If the Apple targetting wasn't obvious enough...

http://www.droiddoes.com :p

I really hope this one can actually live up to the hype - Verizon needs it and Apple could use the competition.

DFDureiko
Oct 18, 2009, 09:10 AM
Being a die hard Apple/Mac guy, it killed me when Apple went to ATT, as I was Verizon and really liked their service. a week and a half ago, my phone failed, one of our lines was out of contract, so I finally got a 3GS 16gig. it's so amazing (to me, i'm new:) that I guess I'll stick with it, most of the time I'm in the country (rural CT and FL) and have had no dropped calls. From this thread I'm guessing dropped calls are a problem in metropolitan areas?
If I could have had some clear answer from Verizon, even a "maybe by midsummer" I'd have kept patiently waiting. But all the Verizon reps, both stores and call center, said "I've heard NOTHING of us getting an iPhone"
Just my luck if it comes out in March, and I'm locked into ATT:)
One other thing I find strange seeing that ATT and Verizon are the two largest cell company's in the US, is why still, There is no ATT coverage in the western states (ie Montana, Wyoming etc) only Verizon? any idea why ATT is not expanding out there after all these years?
Dan

wenger2k
Oct 20, 2009, 12:09 PM
I believe Apple always in reality wanted to go with AT&T - I think they talked to both companies so they could create a form of competition to get what they wanted out of the deal. So why did they want AT&T - it was really simple it was that AT&T used GSM and UMTS that allowed them to make a single device that they could then roll out to a large part of the rest of the world with out a lot of reengineering. This has turned out to be a good decision for them.

If you're so sure this has been such a great thing for AT&T look at their stock price vs apple's and verizon for that matter during this time. While it has represented a huge amount of revenue for AT&T it has also increased their cost by orders of magnitude. Its also forced them to upgrade substantial parts of their network far ahead of plan which has also come at significant unplanned expense. They're currently rolling out the 850mhz and the 7.2gb HSPA overlay framework at least a year ahead of their original plans - all of this is reportedly because essentially Apple made them.

The majority of AT&T's network issues are likely caused by the massive increase in bandwidth consumption which can almost all be attributed to the iPhone. Had Verizon gotten the iphone they'd be in a similar situation.

As for CDMA iPhones, Apple has already announced that they'll be offering the iphone with Bell Canada and its been widely reported that they will offer iPhones with both China Unicom and China Mobile which will force the creation of a CDMA/EVDO iPhone so the technical barrier to entry for Verizon no longer exists. Reality of course is that Verizon represents a big enough customer that creation of a CDMA hardware version would be a minimal barrier if Apple didn't continue to see more benefit from the prime vendor relationship that they have with AT&T than they would get by breaking out and offering the product with Verizon. My guess is that if the volume of complaints about AT&T's network don't start going down soon Apple will be forced to expand to other carriers.

schwell
Oct 21, 2009, 11:44 PM
For all of you touting one carrier over another check these maps out.

ATT: http://www.deadcellzones.com/att.html

Verizon: http://www.deadcellzones.com/verizon.html

Sprint: http://www.deadcellzones.com/sprint.html

T-Mobile: http://www.deadcellzones.com/t-mobile.html

kdarling
Oct 22, 2009, 07:06 AM
For all of you touting one carrier over another check these maps out.

Thanks. However, that site doesn't seem to update its information. Some of it dates back at least five years.

For example, I looked around my area, and most of the well known dead zones marked on the map were resolved a few years ago with new towers.

schwell
Oct 22, 2009, 09:17 AM
Thanks. However, that site doesn't seem to update its information. Some of it dates back at least five years.

For example, I looked around my area, and most of the well known dead zones marked on the map were resolved a few years ago with new towers.

So you looked around and deemed them fixed or drove around and tested them?

kdarling
Oct 22, 2009, 04:26 PM
So you looked around and deemed them fixed or drove around and tested them?

Tested.

In my neighborhood, which is surrounded by hills and lots of state parks, there were several well known holes for all carriers.

Certain valleys, certain sections of road. Every local person knew exactly where they were, because cell service just disappeared in those places. That map was bang on.

Then a couple of years ago, several new towers finally got approved and built, and the dead spots disappeared. (Alas, the skyline isn't as pretty as it used to be, however.)

I can still see those old dead spots marked on that map. The website says it's been up since 2001. Looks like people often enter data, but don't take the time to go back and remove it, assuming there's a way to do that.

schwell
Oct 22, 2009, 07:29 PM
Thanks. However, that site doesn't seem to update its information. Some of it dates back at least five years.

For example, I looked around my area, and most of the well known dead zones marked on the map were resolved a few years ago with new towers.

The site does update the information. Zoom in and click on the "deadspots" The date reported is shown. I clicked on 25 for Verizon and 25 for AT&T they were all reported in 2008 or 2009.

kdarling
Oct 22, 2009, 08:00 PM
The site does update the information. Zoom in and click on the "deadspots" The date reported is shown. I clicked on 25 for Verizon and 25 for AT&T they were all reported in 2008 or 2009.

Cool. I'll have to see if there's a way to report a fixed dead spot. Just no time right now.

maz94protege
Oct 29, 2009, 07:35 AM
AT&T drops a ton of calls in my area, but it's no different than when I used Verizon.

Same with me. its all about location. I have AT&T (iPhone) and Verizon (BB Storm), both drop calls, where i have coverage on one, i dont on the other and vice versa. So to say one has better coverage or not, its hard to point in the right direction. Really... As long as i can make a call im good, I had perfect coverage 2 days ago on the Storm and the network wasnt working, while my iPhone had 1 bar on 3G and no issues.



But its a cool commerical, I like how they are only talking about 3G coverage not over all service coverage, kind of makes Verizon look better. Then again...who is struggling for not having the iPhone?

schwell
Oct 30, 2009, 08:18 AM
Same with me. its all about location. I have AT&T (iPhone) and Verizon (BB Storm), both drop calls, where i have coverage on one, i dont on the other and vice versa. So to say one has better coverage or not, its hard to point in the right direction. Really... As long as i can make a call im good, I had perfect coverage 2 days ago on the Storm and the network wasnt working, while my iPhone had 1 bar on 3G and no issues.



But its a cool commerical, I like how they are only talking about 3G coverage not over all service coverage, kind of makes Verizon look better. Then again...who is struggling for not having the iPhone?

I would NOT characterize Verizon as struggling. Now Sprint on the other hand is struggling.

numediaman
Oct 30, 2009, 12:43 PM
I'm on the phone with AT&T right now talking about the new fees they have added to my bill -- they are, of course, bogus and will be reversed. But every month I have to call AT&T about bogus charges they have added to the bill.

I imagine that this game adds thousands, if not millions, of dollars to their bottom line.

In response, I have eliminated my home lines that go through AT&T, and would immediately go with any other carrier that could handle the iPhone.