Apple and Skype React to AT&T's Announcement of Support for iPhone VoIP Services

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/06/apple-and-skype-react-to-atandts-announcement-of-support-for-iphone-voip-services/)

Following AT&T's announcement (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/06/atandt-to-allow-skype-and-google-voice-to-operate-on-its-mobile-network/) that it will now allow iPhone Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) services over its mobile network, Apple and VoIP provider Skype have issued public statements reacting to today's announcement.

The Associated Press reports (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hB4SzEgrB2SGvqUoDf5XFE7MlAvgD9B5RLNG0) that Apple will be moving forward as quickly as possible to enable customers to take advantage of the functionality.Apple welcomed the announcement. "We are very happy that AT&T is now supporting VOIP applications," said Apple spokeswoman Natalie Kerris. "We will be amending our developer agreements to get VOIP apps on the App Store and in customers' hands as soon as possible."Skype president Josh Silverman also applauded the move (http://share.skype.com/sites/en/2009/10/good_move_att.html), as his company will now be able to expand the usability of its iPhone application (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/30/official-skype-app-is-now-available-in-the-app-store/), which has been limited to Wi-Fi access only for VoIP services.All of us at Skype applaud today's announcement by AT&T (in an FCC filing to be published shortly – update, it's here (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7020040868) in PDF format) that it'll open up its 3G network to Internet calling applications such as Skype. It's the right step for AT&T, Apple, millions of mobile Skype users and the Internet itself.Silverman notes, however, that the company still hopes to see government policies enacted to provide for the openness necessary for Skype to be available throughout the industry.

Article Link: Apple and Skype React to AT&T's Announcement of Support for iPhone VoIP Services (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/06/apple-and-skype-react-to-atandts-announcement-of-support-for-iphone-voip-services/)

[thegoldenmackid]

And the FCC Says...

[JPark]

It's awesome, but I'd like to know what got AT&T to change its mind. Are they trying to get some positive press for a change? Is it because of the impending net neutrality legislation?

[purelithium]

So AT&T is doing this... What about the rest of the world?

[nickXedge]

Very interesting. I've never used any of these services but I might be inclined to try them now.

[iomar]

Wow, this is a wonderful news!

[griz]

Maybe now AT&T will offer a plan that is a phone and data only. Then I can do whatever I want with it. Hmm, novel idea. A device that you connect to a network where you can use any number of services like email, web browsing, place calls, etc. Where have I heard of such a thing before? Naa, it will never catch on.

[gkarris]

Sounds like a concession AT&T has made so that it can remain the exclusive provider of the iPhone in the US.

[sinani201]

It would have been soooooooo predictable if VoIP were available for all apps except Skype. That would be the classic, evil Apple we all know and love.

[Peace]

Sounds to me like AT&T is trying to cover it's butt with the FCC. I'm also guessing Apple,Inc. is very happy about it too..

Now Google..That's a different story..

[Stately]

Sounds like a concession AT&T has made so that it can remain the exclusive provider of the iPhone in the US.

Exactly right.

[GeekLawyer]

Sounds like a concession AT&T has made so that it can remain the exclusive provider of the iPhone in the US.

Double exactly right. This is all about maintaining their exclusivity as the only iPhone carrier in the US.

[iphones4evry1]

AT&T makes the bulk of their income from the $79.99 minimum per month that we pay. The revenue from long-distance calls is next to nothing by comparison. This is a very good PR move for AT&T.

[jb510]

That was fast! I just got notified of a new version of Skype on my iPhone...

LOL... wouldn't that be cool?

[jb510]

Double exactly right. This is all about maintaining their exclusivity as the only iPhone carrier in the US.

Exactly right.

Sounds like a concession AT&T has made so that it can remain the exclusive provider of the iPhone in the US.

Seriously? You've all got some vivid imaginations... let me tell you about this magically creature that hops around laying eggs... or would you like to support that wide conjecture with something?

[GeekLawyer]

Seriously? You've all got some vivid imaginations... let me tell you about this magically creature that hops around laying eggs... or would you like to support that wide conjecture with something?

It doesn't take much of an imagination to get there. But since even Apple snickers at the mention of AT&T lately, you imagine AT&T is bending over as far as they can to keep their exclu$ivity intact.

I have no proof to support my statements, just a gut feeling.

[puuukeey]

Freedom™ The new free service AT&T just happened to let us mere mortals have.

[*LTD*]

It was AT&T all along.

[reemas]

This post should have been titled:

AT&T Fears Losing iPhone Contract

[barrina]

So what does that mean for the ill-fated Google Voice app? Maybe it can be broken out of jail (broken)...

[macdim]

I'm not sure if this has been touched on before, but do the Skype versions for countries other than the U.S. have the ability to use 3G? It seems to me like if it was AT&T holding Skype back, that those App Stores outside the US of A would have been able to use Skype over 3G since it was introduced.

[kdarling]

It's awesome, but I'd like to know what got AT&T to change its mind. Are they trying to get some positive press for a change? Is it because of the impending net neutrality legislation?

Or to short circuit the latest Verizon ads? Or because Verizon already allows VoiP (and Slingplayer) in their wireless terms of service?

Maybe all of the above...

If it was just for net neutrality, they jumped too soon. The Republicans are pushing back on the idea of allowing any app, especially ones that might bog down a network.

[macerroneous]

OK, I buy the presumption that ATT made this concession as a part of an ongoing contract with Apple. I think it is interesting that this happened on THE SAME DAY that we're hearing announcements about additional carriers in Canada. So, maybe Apple says "We're opening up the iPhone to more carriers unless you announce by 10/06/2009"

But remember, ATT hasn't engaged tethering yet. Furthermore, there's plenty of speculation that one tablet configuration will include 3G access. If so, the tablet will presumably allow VOIP over 3G. So, to maintain exclusivity and win the tablet prize, ATT had to agree to a BIG package, including VOIP and tethering. Maybe? Or, maybe it's just CYA for the FCC. If tethering arrives before 11/1/09 there's corroboration. Also, if you see these Apps in the next 48 hours, it means Apple's been waiting for this.

[stuffradio]

And the FCC Says...

Amen.

[klittle32]

Sounds like a concession AT&T has made so that it can remain the exclusive provider of the iPhone in the US.

I disagree. How much will Apple really benefit from this? Sure, I see them selling more VOIP apps in the the iTunes store as a result of this, but the increased app sales would result in much less revenue for Apple than would the expiration of AT&T's exclusivity contract and subsequent increase in iPhone sales.

The reason for AT&T's about-face must be something else, and most likely is coming from a direction other than Apple's. I would suspect AT&T cut a deal with the FCC before Apple.

[sum1]

First the A-List, then Vo3G... Too many good things all at once! What's the catch?

[techman09]

First the A-List, then Vo3G... Too many good things all at once! What's the catch?

A-List is a pretty cool feature. Not very well advertised, but it caused me to upgrade my plan to the next level.

If they open up tethering, that would be perfect.

[mdriftmeyer]

It was AT&T all along.

And that should have been obvious from the beginning. Apple could care less, but the backbone provider always does.

[KurtangleTN]

This post should have been titled:

AT&T Fears Losing iPhone Contract

I really doubt it, the thing is T-Mobile is pretty much a lesser AT&T.. they might allow more freedom and possibly better deals but their coverage is smaller.

Unless Apple decides to go for a CDMA phone... there really isn't some savior there.. and I just can't imagine that they'll release one.. even if I'd love one and Verizon desperately needs a good media phone/everyone phone (IE A smartphone that's not a blackberry).

[iSamurai]

This is all choreographed... makes it look like AT&T and Apple are good friends.

[rtdunham]

... Also, if you see these Apps in the next 48 hours, it means Apple's been waiting for this.

I can't imagine apple hasn't been anticipating it. I can't imagine skype hasn't been preparing for it. I can't imagine apple wouldn't have known about ATT's decision well before it was announced. Based on those assumptions (does anyone see any flaws in them?) I'd be amazed if it takes long for this to be implemented.

[seedster2]

Seriously? You've all got some vivid imaginations... let me tell you about this magically creature that hops around laying eggs... or would you like to support that wide conjecture with something?

LOL so true. I think people will say anything to make a stiuation appear Apple has all the cards.

What other carrier is Apple going to sell with in the US? According to everyone here, they couldnt possibly be developing a CDMA iphone in parallel...

[iMouse]

Hey Apple! Why don't you mention SlingMedia support over 3G while you have AT&T's jewels in a vice as well! :D

[TMar]

It was AT&T all along.

Yes and no. Apple always said that AT&T never had any part of the aprovial process and it looks like they don't. That doesn't mean that Apple and AT&T didn't have an agreement from the start blocking such apps. That's why Apple is admending their developer agreement.

[Mr. Gates]

If this happens, I am willing to bet ether Skype raises prices or AT&T's coverage gets worse. AT&T would like to bleed the money directly from your ass so I wouldn't be surprised if there is a catch.

[McBeats]

beautiful!

[rtc4lyfee]

If this happens, I am willing to bet ether Skype raises prices or AT&T's coverage gets worse. AT&T would like to bleed the money directly from your ass so I wouldn't be surprised if there is a catch.

Doubt this is the case. AT&T cannot afford to have its reception get any worse now that is it now the 4th rated carrier in terms of customers satisfactionwith the network/customer service not to mention now Verizon is running ads claiming their 3G network is about 10x larger then AT&T (and from the maps, it looks that way :()

I really hope AT&T is waking up. I doubt they are to late, and they can still pull a u-turn and head back into the right direction. Hopefully they continue to amp up spending on improving their 3g network and their next network deployment goes well.

[mwickens]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/06/apple-and-skype-react-to-atandts-announcement-of-support-for-iphone-voip-services/)


The company still hopes to see government policies enacted to provide for the openness necessary for Skype to be available throughout the industry.

Article Link: Apple and Skype React to AT&T's Announcement of Support for iPhone VoIP Services (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/06/apple-and-skype-react-to-atandts-announcement-of-support-for-iphone-voip-services/)

Oh, Skype. Cut the Orwellian crap about "openness" and be honest: You want a law passed that forces your competitors to lay down the red carpet for you.

[beebler]

What about other carriers in other countries? If Skype advances its app, does will it make a difference anywhere other than AT&T?

Can AT&T's network handle more 3G use?

[alhasa]

hopefully this voip over 3g excitement will spill over the pond

[Oliver.m]

hopefully this voip over 3g excitement will spill over the pond

I couldn't agree more!!

[ipoppy]

What about other carriers in other countries? If Skype advances its app, does will it make a difference anywhere other than AT&T?

Can AT&T's network handle more 3G use?

I dont think so. In UK next year we will have three carriers like O2, Orange and Vodafone for iphone. I am sure that one of them if not all of them will try crash competition by implementing VOIP over 3G. Also some free tethering will take place too to get more people in. So competition is good thing. AT&T as a one player in US=not good for US regardless of Skype 3G or not.
What I think is that AT&T will put some charges on Skype app via tethering mode. Their network is overloaded already and using data for voice is surely not good move for them.

[Carniphage]

Perhaps now Skype will add Push notification to its lousy iPhone app.

C.

[aegisdesign]

I dont think so. In UK next year we will have three carriers like O2, Orange and Vodafone for iphone. I am sure that one of them if not all of them will try crash competition by implementing VOIP over 3G. Also some free tethering will take place too to get more people in. So competition is good thing. AT&T as a one player in US=not good for US regardless of Skype 3G or not.
What I think is that AT&T will put some charges on Skype app via tethering mode. Their network is overloaded already and using data for voice is surely not good move for them.

The big UK carriers - O2 and Orange particularly - got a bit snotty with Nokia a while back for including Skype on it's handsets and they also like to disable Nokia's built in SIP support. So I wouldn't bet on them allowing Skype over 3G.

At the other end of the scale, Three include Skype with free calls for life on their phones over wifi and 3G even out of contract or with no PAYG credit available on your phone. Yes, that's right, FREE with no contract.

My Three Nokia E71 also came with Gizmo installed. If the iPhone came to Three in the UK, I'd imagine there would be quite some panic in the boardrooms of O2, Orange and Vodafone, otherwise I don't think we'll see much difference to O2's current restrictive service.

I can't say I'm impressed with Apple if the restriction on VoIP over 3G for the entire world was because of their US carrier.

[aegisdesign]

Perhaps now Skype will add Push notification to its lousy iPhone app.

C.

Perhaps Apple will add 3rd party background tasks to it's lousy phone. ;)

[twilson]

So what does that mean for the ill-fated Google Voice app? Maybe it can be broken out of jail (broken)...

From my recollection, Google Voice isn't a VOIP application, and it was never the VOIP that Apple took exception to anyway.

[MacBoucher]

It's awesome, but I'd like to know what got AT&T to change its mind. Are they trying to get some positive press for a change? Is it because of the impending net neutrality legislation?

I just moved about 8 tenths of a mile down the street and now I don't get 3G or any AT&T Phone Service whatsoever in my house. I got in the car, had to reboot the phone and then I got 3 calls, 4 texts all from last night before 8PM.

By allowing Google Voice and Skype, it gives me the chance to actually use my iPhone for voice over my WiFi at my new home. I'm still livid that I have to pay out the nose for a brick. Yes, I called AT&T and they told me "3G is available at your house." Um, come here yourself... Try it.

So, maybe that's what got them to change?

[kdarling]

Yes and no. Apple always said that AT&T never had any part of the aprovial process and it looks like they don't.

Apple never said that ATT had no part of the approval process. They said that Apple makes the final decision (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/apple-answers-fcc-questions/), which is a totally different claim. ATT does have input:

From time to time, AT&T has expressed concerns regarding network efficiency and potential network congestion associated with certain applications, and Apple takes such concerns into consideration. - Apple

In addition, AT&T admitted to the FCC that they had expressed concerns about at least three apps after their approval, and they were changed or removed.

That doesn't mean that Apple and AT&T didn't have an agreement from the start blocking such apps.

And in fact, they did have such an agreement:

"There is a provision in Apple’s agreement with AT&T that obligates Apple not to include functionality in any Apple phone that enables a customer to use AT&T’s cellular network service to originate or terminate a VoIP session without obtaining AT&T’s permission.

Apple honors this obligation, in addition to respecting AT&T’s customer Terms of Service, which, for example, prohibit an AT&T customer from using AT&T’s cellular service to redirect a TV signal to an iPhone." - Apple

[*LTD*]

Apple never said that ATT had no part of the approval process. They said that Apple makes the final decision (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/apple-answers-fcc-questions/), which is a totally different claim. ATT does have input:

From time to time, AT&T has expressed concerns regarding network efficiency and potential network congestion associated with certain applications, and Apple takes such concerns into consideration. - Apple



And in fact, they did have such an agreement:

"There is a provision in Apple’s agreement with AT&T that obligates Apple not to include functionality in any Apple phone that enables a customer to use AT&T’s cellular network service to originate or terminate a VoIP session without obtaining AT&T’s permission. Apple honors this obligation, in addition to respecting AT&T’s customer Terms of Service, which, for example, prohibit an AT&T customer from using AT&T’s cellular service to redirect a TV signal to an iPhone." - Apple

Right.

It was AT&T all along. Apple simply covered for them, as expected.

[vivithemage]

First the A-List, then Vo3G... Too many good things all at once! What's the catch?

AT&T's contract with apple exclusivity is coming to an end? Last ditch effort to keep/gain customers before they aren't the only carrier in the US?

[schwell]

Or to short circuit the latest Verizon ads? Or because Verizon already allows VoiP (and Slingplayer) in their wireless terms of service?

Maybe all of the above...

If it was just for net neutrality, they jumped too soon. The Republicans are pushing back on the idea of allowing any app, especially ones that might bog down a network.

You are such a Verizon lap dog.

[bruinsrme]

hopefully this voip over 3g excitement will spill over the pond

Why isn't it there now. AT&T doesn't have an influence on what the carriers across the pond do with their network.
So if AT&T has no influence that leaves only one party that is influencing the implementation of these VOIP programs.
Your beloved Apple, perhaps? Or is it a larger conspiracy amoungst carriers?

[hanpa]

So AT&T is doing this... What about the rest of the world?

The rest of the world has been ready for several years. It's AT&T and Apple that has been stuck in the 20th century.

[Peruchito]

iChat for iPhone now?

[docpsycho]

all transmission from handset to cell towers is binary in/on a RF carrier. So does the VoIP which does not have a FCC mandate for minimal voice quality, use less or more than the 'traditional voice' digital stream? If the VoIP uses less, then it would be to AT&T's benefit to support it. Those who are much technically inclined and can lay off the pseudo-technobabble (in plain english please) now is your moment to shine & do some 'splaining.

[Goona]

Perhaps Apple will add 3rd party background tasks to it's lousy phone. ;)

Lousy phone with the highest consumer satisfaction rates in the industry?

[cjmillsnun]

Why isn't it there now. AT&T doesn't have an influence on what the carriers across the pond do with their network.
So if AT&T has no influence that leaves only one party that is influencing the implementation of these VOIP programs.
Your beloved Apple, perhaps? Or is it a larger conspiracy amoungst carriers?

I suspect more likely that the developers don't develop country specific versions of their apps, as it is quicker and cheaper to develop one app that can be approved world wide.

[Prom1]

Since the news of the FCC investigation thread, I've always stated that Apple was most likely bounded to the provider via agreement constraints. This latest round of news and change in direction from AT&T (to save their corporate asses) proves this theory.

Now will these apps be limited to wlan access only or 3G+wlan.

[*LTD*]

Since the news of the FCC investigation thread, I've always stated that Apple was most likely bounded to the provider via agreement constraints. This latest round of news and change in direction from AT&T (to save their corporate asses) proves this theory.

Now will these apps be limited to wlan access only or 3G+wlan.

Welcome to the "all along" club. ;)

Last month we were "crazed fanbois" to suggest Apple couldn't really do anything about it.

[nagromme]

Perhaps Apple will add 3rd party background tasks to it's lousy phone. ;)

Push is a far better solution for Skype than the crash-prone resource-hogging buzzword of "background apps."

Background apps do have certain advantages, but in this case, Apple's solution really is superior to what other phones make you deal with. (Manual memory management and apps bogging each other down? The Pre reviews sure don't make me jealous of that.)

[TXCraig]

If Apple "never" rejected it, and its been under review of the last 6 months- can Apple now APPROVE it and get in the app store.... like today?

[kdarling]

all transmission from handset to cell towers is binary in/on a RF carrier. So does the VoIP which does not have a FCC mandate for minimal voice quality, use less or more than the 'traditional voice' digital stream? If the VoIP uses less, then it would be to AT&T's benefit to support it. Those who are much technically inclined and can lay off the pseudo-technobabble (in plain english please) now is your moment to shine & do some 'splaining.

Good question. I'll give it a shot, or at least lay out some info and thoughts.


Skype will test your speed and use 3-16Kbps.
GSM's voice codec can use 7-12Kbps.


Everything depends on what rate your voice is being encoded at. And don't forget it's probably a duplex connection, so you can both talk at once, thus double the bit rates. But that's not important.

Let's say they're both encoding at 12Kbps. Now it gets fuzzy, for two reasons:

1) For the same encoded data, Skype will ALWAYS use more on top of that, because it's using a IP wrapper, whether TCP/IP or UDP/IP.

2) Phone companies still use a circuit switched paradigm for consistent quality. GSM voice uses time slots dedicated to you and you alone.

So the question really is, which one uses more carrier resources?

GSM voice uses a fixed amount of time, which prevents anyone else from using that time slot. So that's one measure of resource usage.

VoIP uses GSM data slots, which could be more because of overhead, or perhaps less when nothing is being said (silent time).

Edit: two more thoughts. VoIP users with unlimited data plans, might tend to stay online far longer and tie up resources. OTOH, VoIP will shunt to the Internet ASAP, while GSM voice will use up carrier internal lines all around the world.

I think it's basically a wash, with the caveat that VoIP has less priority than GSM voice. Anyone else have thoughts?

Background apps do have certain advantages, but in this case, Apple's solution really is superior to what other phones make you deal with. (Manual memory management and apps bogging each other down? The Pre reviews sure don't make me jealous of that.)

You guys who moan about manual memory and apps.... have you never run more than one app on your laptop at a time? Have you ever had to stop one to make the others run faster or give them more memory? Of course. Annoying yes, but was it really rocket science? :)

And the Pre has the perfect paradigm. Just flip the app's card away to stop it. Too easy.

[ilogic]

+1 on everybody who thinks it's because of the iPhone exclusivity, I agree - The real money maker for ATT is the iPhone, not the service.

One day, there shall be a mass exodus from ATT, and if they lose Apple, you can risk a bet that 99.99% of future communication devices won't go exclusive at all. That means cheaper rates for everybody no matter who you're with or what you carry in your pocket.

I also think Apple doesn't give a crap about Skype of Google Voice. Apple's extra cash comes from the sales in the App Store. Here is where they'll make sure Skype and Google Voice become somewhat irrelevant with the exception of being additional marketing ammunition for the iPhone - who cares if other devices have had VOIP, if it's on the iPhone it actually means something... also I think we're about to see new VOIP apps that will light a fire under Skype's....;)

PS - GO USA!!!!!!!!!

[drumrobot]

Yay! Now AT&T's network will be even slower due to VOIP calls!

[twoodcc]

now this is very nice. i might start using skype more now