DoubleTwist Launches iTunes-Like Desktop Application for Amazon MP3 Store

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/06/doubletwist-launches-itunes-like-desktop-application-for-amazon-mp3-store/)

doubleTwist (http://www.doubletwist.com), the company run by famed digital rights management hacker Jon Lech Johansen ("DVD Jon"), today released (http://forums.doubletwist.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=1200) a revamped doubleTwist for Mac application, adding a number of new features to its iTunes competitor. The most notable enhancement is the inclusion of a music store linked to the Amazon MP3 Store. The application offers an iTunes-like experience for browsing the Amazon MP3 Store, bypassing the traditional browser-based access for a streamlined desktop application environment.



Article Link: DoubleTwist Launches iTunes-Like Desktop Application for Amazon MP3 Store (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/06/doubletwist-launches-itunes-like-desktop-application-for-amazon-mp3-store/)

[japanime]

Very nice! I'd love to see them add lala.com integration, too.

[celticpride678]

Looks really nice.

[drakeshipway]

"Download DoubleTwist now, and staaaaaaart twisting"
When she said "start" I actually jumped a little

..Looks great though!

[gkarris]

I smell a lawsuit... :eek:

[MrMoore]

I smell a lawsuit... :eek:

Why? :confused:

[tk421]

Looks really nice.

...Looks great...

Looks... just like iTunes. :rolleyes:

[albusseverus]

Wake me when it supports my iTunes library and iPhone.

[CFreymarc]

Looks... just like iTunes. :rolleyes:

This is a wonderful piece of software that was done in the clean. The "look and feel" lawsuits of the last two decades will handsomely defend these guys. Surprised something like this hasn't come out sooner.

As someone said years ago, "If you get kicked out of someone's sandbox, make your own sandbox!"

[RyanR.]

This just proves that Apple does it right the first time. It looks like the newest iTunes:rolleyes:

[japanime]

This just proves that Apple does it right the first time. It looks like the newest iTunes:rolleyes:

It doesn't look broken to me. :D

[MacSince1990]

This just proves that Apple does it right the first time. It looks like the newest iTunes:rolleyes:

Uhhh... you do realize that iTunes was basically Apple's stolen version of Cassidy & Greene's SoundJam, right? They literally used the same exact code in about 75% of the application.

[LethalWolfe]

Uhhh... you do realize that iTunes was basically Apple's stolen version of Cassidy & Greene's SoundJam, right? They literally used the same exact code in about 75% of the application.
Kinda reminds of me the NBC slogan a few years ago at the start of the summer rerun season, "If you haven't seen it before it's new to you." People bag MS for pilfering other companies but Apple is just as bad if not worse. They just typically pilfer smaller companies that fewer people have heard of.


Lethal

[aristotle]

This is a wonderful piece of software that was done in the clean. The "look and feel" lawsuits of the last two decades will handsomely defend these guys. Surprised something like this hasn't come out sooner.

As someone said years ago, "If you get kicked out of someone's sandbox, make your own sandbox!"
They did not just copy the look and feel but I apparently you failed to notice that they copied the preview animation as well from iTunes 9.x. I smell a lawsuit for copyright infringement.

[bmb012]

Blah blah Palm. Why can't Palm just have an official deal with these guys?

[MrMoore]

Uhhh... you do realize that iTunes was basically Apple's stolen version of Cassidy & Greene's SoundJam, right? They literally used the same exact code in about 75% of the application.

What do you mean stolen? Apple bought the rights to SoundJam.

http://www.maclife.com/article/feature/the_complete_itunes_history

[rob1]

On the surface, it looks like a really nice app.

But honestly, why use it instead of iTunes?

[NasserAE]

Blah blah Palm. Why can't Palm just have an official deal with these guys?

And give up all the publicity?! :)

[DougB541]

Doubletwist has been around for a bit.

It works with a CRAP load of phones/mp3 players to sync your itunes music/photos over to different devices.


Good stuff.

[devburke]

On the surface, it looks like a really nice app.

But honestly, why use it instead of iTunes?

To sync your iTunes music to something other than an iPod or iPhone…

[bobertoq]

Looks... just like iTunes. :rolleyes:What's that got to do with anything? :rolleyes:

[MacFly123]

Good point brought up here (http://9to5mac.com/doubletwist-itunes-amazon). You can make 10% off of Amazon affiliate links - this could be a big money maker for them

I was wondering where they derived revenue from this app.

To sync your iTunes music to something other than an iPod or iPhone…

Why would I own or want to sync it to an inferior phone :confused: :p

[marcre]

It's pretty weak that they couldn't come up with their own design.

[RyanR.]

Uhhh... you do realize that iTunes was basically Apple's stolen version of Cassidy & Greene's SoundJam, right? They literally used the same exact code in about 75% of the application.

No, I didn't know that... :o

[John.B]

No playlists? Really?

Oh, well, if it improves the experience of searching Amazon.com for MP3s then I guess it can't be all bad. But I really didn't want to line the pockets of "DVD Jon" with Amazon affiliate link fees.

He's nuts, though, if he thinks that will replace my iPod.

[kockgunner]

Uhhh... you do realize that iTunes was basically Apple's stolen version of Cassidy & Greene's SoundJam, right? They literally used the same exact code in about 75% of the application.

Apple bought the rights to SoundJam.

The sound clip preview animation as noted by another poster is the same as are the icons. This is ridiculous. There is no more DRM so I don't get why the guy is making this app while being so against the iPod. This app can sync with other devices. Great. I don't get the point?

[Hot Snowboarder]

Uhhh... you do realize that iTunes was basically Apple's stolen version of Cassidy & Greene's SoundJam, right? They literally used the same exact code in about 75% of the application.

If you call purchasing the rights to the software 'stealing'. sure.

[hugo7]

Is this doubletwist software a viable alternative to itunes (in terms of speed and a concentrated focus on music)? The majority of my music is DRM-free but using iTunes 9 (which handles apps, ringtones, radio, music, video, web page rendering, etc) seems like overkill sometimes…. (I have an ipod touch 2g)

[iSlicer]

"Managing your music has never been easier."

WHAT?

Yes it has, it is called iTunes!

Anyway, good for competition. I can see that it would be useful for people with devices that are not supported. Amazon integration is nice also. HOWEVER, it is no where near as slick as iTunes. You would have to be mad to think so.

[chstr]

Wake me when it supports my iTunes library and iPhone.

it does.... now awaken apple droid... :p

[Peace]

It doesn't support the iPhone unless it's jailbroken. I currently have mine connected and DT does not see it.

And it IS a complete rip-off of iTunes. Only worse.

[devburke]

No playlists? Really?

Oh, well, if it improves the experience of searching Amazon.com for MP3s then I guess it can't be all bad. But I really didn't want to line the pockets of "DVD Jon" with Amazon affiliate link fees.

He's nuts, though, if he thinks that will replace my iPod.

I coulda sworn the article said

Other features included in the software, which allows users to sync their media libraries to a wide array of devices, include new playlist support and search functionality.

[skellener]

I hope doubleTwist kicks Apple's butt! Competition is good! I hope it gets Apple innovating the iTunes interface and usability again. It's been pretty stagnant.

[pmjoe]

Blah blah Palm. Why can't Palm just have an official deal with these guys?
Palm already works with Amazon's music store.

[fogelbaby]

Yeah I think Apple will sue them for sure. They have copied iTunes almost exactly, including the look and feel of the program. I'm sure DVD Jon is infringing on quite a few Apple trademarks. He has a history of thumbing his nose to copyright, and I'm sure he's doing it again here. Guys like this do it on purpose.

[JGowan]

Uhhh... you do realize that iTunes was basically Apple's stolen version of Cassidy & Greene's SoundJam, right? They literally used the same exact code in about 75% of the application.Uhhh... you do realize that is an ignorant statement, right? Apple bought the software and talent after a deal fell through that wanted to make with Panic (the makers of Audion). iTunes' interface was brand new and looked nothing like the widget and windows of SJ.

Please don't rattle stuff just to play devil's advocate.

There is no more DRM so I don't get why the guy is making this app while being so against the iPod. This app can sync with other devices. Great. I don't get the point?Good question. I imagine that the reason is to bought out. This is Palm's dream-app. They could buy it and not have to screw with iTunes and the constant cat/mouse game. A number of other companies could/should pay a pretty penny for this app.

[devburke]

This app can sync with other devices. … I don't get the point?

Rick James? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrJG_wZd1IM&feature=youtube_gdata) Is that you?

[devburke]

Palm already works with Amazon's music store.

This app is more than just a frontend for the Amazon store. It’s for syncing your media to non-Apple devices.

[nostaws]

Palm should jump on this, and make this their pre software.

[chstr]

Yeah I think Apple will sue them for sure. They have copied iTunes almost exactly, including the look and feel of the program. I'm sure DVD Jon is infringing on quite a few Apple trademarks. He has a history of thumbing his nose to copyright, and I'm sure he's doing it again here. Guys like this do it on purpose.

so what if they sue them? it doesn't mean they'll win... I'm all for competition and this is nowhere near the same thing as psystar or palm

[chstr]

Palm should jump on this, and make this their pre software.

it essentially could be as it stands

[Consultant]

No playlists? Really?

Oh, well, if it improves the experience of searching Amazon.com for MP3s then I guess it can't be all bad. But I really didn't want to line the pockets of "DVD Jon" with Amazon affiliate link fees.

He's nuts, though, if he thinks that will replace my iPod.


Yeah, iPhone is my iPod. Not leaving that at home, no matter how much they make the app to look like iTunes.

[andy721]

lmao the girl sounds like an innocent mouse but she wants to look up nine inch nails nice.

Oh she states purchasing songs never been easier... When has it not been easy purchasing anything that deals with a credit card bank fees and or gift certificates.... Give me a break women... Of course it's easier, same with getting songs for free either way you look at it. Record shops have become digital only because of pirating. They just name it a get a long name and make the appearance easy on the eyes n fun for easy purchases to grab every bit of money because the majority of the human race loves music.

SCAMS! BIG BROTHER IS RIGHT!

[stefman]

If I understand correctly, you have to drag and drop one song at a time on to your connected device?

Looks too similar to iTunes, Apple lawyers are up right now drafting the lawsuit.

[Tyr.]

Looks nice and could be something for the people who have a non-Apple media player. The media players are growing up, Songbird (http://getsongbird.com/) is another (open source) iTunes clone that's good if you don't want to use Apple software, especially the lyrics plugin is a godsend.

[devburke]

If I understand correctly, you have to drag and drop one song at a time on to your connected device?

Looks too similar to iTunes, Apple lawyers are up right now drafting the lawsuit.

What’s to stop you from highlighting more than one? Although it would be nice to set it to automatically sync. Maybe certain devices can do that.

[synth3tik]

Too similar to iTunes. I would prefer something different with the same ideas of end user experience.

[LEStudios]

I smell a lawsuit... :eek:

Yep called Intellectual Property Rights. iTunes is a Registered Trademark and patents. Let's time this, but lets make it real interesting and forward this to Steve Jobs see what he has to say! :D

[bunty]

Uhhh... you do realize that iTunes was basically Apple's stolen version of Cassidy & Greene's SoundJam, right? They literally used the same exact code in about 75% of the application.

Used being the operative word here...as in past-tense.

[x86isslow]

I was wondering where they derived revenue from this app.



Why would I own or want to sync it to an inferior phone :confused: :p

Sounds like you're one of the lucky ones. Lots of people are locked into 2-year contracts and/or family plans with Sprint/Verizon and want music on their phones.

[John.B]

I coulda sworn the article said
Other features included in the software, which allows users to sync their media libraries to a wide array of devices, include new playlist support and search functionality.
Yeah, but I watched the video twice and didn't see playlists anywhere. Just drag-and-drop "manually managed" music. Old school, and not in a good way.

[devburke]

Yeah, but I watched the video twice and didn't see playlists anywhere. Just drag-and-drop "manually managed" music. Old school, and not in a good way.

I was looking around their website (http://www.doubletwist.com/dt/Home/Help.dt) (see the Supported Devices section) and it looks like only certain devices work with playlists.

[LoganT]

Uhhh... you do realize that iTunes was basically Apple's stolen version of Cassidy & Greene's SoundJam, right? They literally used the same exact code in about 75% of the application.

Yeah they bought it.

[Legolover64]

Awesome! Slick looking, pretty neat too.

I will never understand people who say "looks just like iTunes." Ever seen the bookmarks sidebar in FireFox, or the feeds bar in Google Reader or even the sidebar in Windows Explorer on XP? It's been a UI convention for a while. Just because Apple put cute little icons and Helvetica on there doesn't make it "new."

I am losing faith in this community's ability to think for itself...

[O and A]

It's pretty weak that they couldn't come up with their own design.

I guess its pretty weak that iTunes is the same design as soundjam. I mean apple bought it but lets give credit where credit is due. Apple did not come up with this UI.

Also why fix what isn't broken. I don't get the negative comments toward double twist. Not everyone wants, needs, or can afford an iphone or ipod. Some people just don't want those devices. I may not agree with that but having an app that supports it makes sense. So I really don't get the negative comments toward this app. At the end of the day competition is important and this will help apple keep itunes innovative and competitive.

And Frankly if this will let me sync my iphone with more than one computer which i think it does... than i'm all for it. Also it looks like it will let me play songs off my iphone when i'm not connected to my main computer. Which is really frustrating that I can't do that to begin with.

[ptsube]

You guys are crazy if you think a lawsuit would hold up over something like this. It's a framed style window. There are hundreds of apps that look similar.

I know Apple and the fanboys would like to believe that they are the creator of all things but, this is indeed untrue.


"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
— Douglas Adams

[aristotle]

I guess its pretty weak that iTunes is the same design as soundjam. I mean apple bought it but lets give credit where credit is due. Apple did not come up with this UI.
Ok, put down the crack pipe right now. I think your memory is a little foggy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoundJam_MP

Yes, it started out as SoundJam but the UI of iTunes is very different from Soundjam. From the look of that screen shot, it looks like Sound Jam shared more in common with Winamp rather than iTunes.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tuaw.com/media/2006/09/itunes1.jpg

Version 1.0 of iTunes (pictured above) was based on SoundJam MP code but the UI was significantly different even with the first release.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITunes_version_history

But very little of it remains in the current version, if any at all. I would not be surprised if they had not rewritten all of it several times already.

[Mr. Gates]

Who cares.

Let them do whatever. Its not going to affect iTunes one bit.

[MacSince1990]

What do you mean stolen? Apple bought the rights to SoundJam.

http://www.maclife.com/article/feature/the_complete_itunes_history

My point was "Apple doesn't do it right the first time," since they didn't even do it. I'm aware they paid for it, much like how they paid for what they took from Xerox.

But very little of it remains in the current version, if any at all. I would not be surprised if they had not rewritten all of it several times already.

Lol. The original iTunes was written for Mac OS 9. . . so yeah I imagine it's been rewritten at least once... or twice since it's now running in x86 and not PowerPC processors ;)

[gibbz]

Who cares.

Let them do whatever. Its not going to affect iTunes one bit.

Agreed. I don't understand everyone saying "Take that iTunes."

Apple makes iTunes, mainly to sync with their hardware. For devices that are not Apple hardware, they made it extremely easy by making the Library XML file. They want others to write syncing solutions. So congratulations DoubleTwist, you made a solution.

[spillproof]

Apple bought the rights to SoundJam.

The sound clip preview animation as noted by another poster is the same as are the icons. This is ridiculous. There is no more DRM so I don't get why the guy is making this app while being so against the iPod. This app can sync with other devices. Great. I don't get the point?

Except for 75% of my library. That is a lot of CDs to burn :(

[Rodimus Prime]

Except for 75% of my library. That is a lot of CDs to burn :(

Yeah it kind of screwed over a lot of people after apple went DRM free. We have to pay money to converted out library DRM free. Personally I think apple should allow everyone who has DRM songs should be allowed to convert them for free. Hell I bet apple could release an program that could remove the DRM from songs so not to over load Apple's servers.

[nkawtg72]

lawsuits?!?!?! for what?

the elements they have used for the UI are ALL part of the SDK for application development in MacOS X. apple will not be suing anyone over this. besides, apple has nothing to gain by suing, and they certainly have nothing to loose if they don't sue.

personally, i'll keep using iTunes, but i think this is a good solution to a problem a lot of people talk about, 3rd party support they can't get in iTunes. i wish them well.

like others have pointed out, this solution appears to take advantage of the XML integration provided to developers for accessing the iTunes DB. just shows how easy it is, and how lame Palm has been for not doing it the right way all along.

[John.B]

Yeah it kind of screwed over a lot of people after apple went DRM free. We have to pay money to converted out library DRM free. Personally I think apple should allow everyone who has DRM songs should be allowed to convert them for free. Hell I bet apple could release an program that could remove the DRM from songs so not to over load Apple's servers.
There were existing contracts with the goons at the RIAA that had to be honored, left over from the initial iTunes Plus campaign.

[bankshot]

Wow. It's one thing to provide equivalent functionality. Even better to improve on that functionality. But it's quite another thing to produce such a blatant copy of someone else's design. As a developer, I'd be embarrassed to release such a product. It would expose my complete lack of creativity (originality) or even basic skill in designing a user interface. It would loudly scream, "Hello, world! I may be a good (or even great) programmer, but I can't design a user interface to save my life. I don't have an original bone in my body, so I'll just copy, pixel for pixel, someone else's hard work!" :rolleyes:

Hilarious. Reminds me of the legions of open source projects that so obviously copy Apple or Microsoft interfaces - I thought Amarok (http://amarok.kde.org/screenshots) was bad, but this one really takes the cake. They seriously couldn't think of any way to improve on the iTunes interface or make it just look a tiny bit different? I honestly feel embarrassed for them. :o

If Apple actually responds, I'll get the popcorn. :D :p

[nkawtg72]

Yeah it kind of screwed over a lot of people after apple went DRM free. We have to pay money to converted out library DRM free. Personally I think apple should allow everyone who has DRM songs should be allowed to convert them for free. Hell I bet apple could release an program that could remove the DRM from songs so not to over load Apple's servers.

i can understand why you'd want your files stripped of the DRM, maybe you have a device other than an Apple product you want to play it on. that's cool.

but what i don't understand is why you think apple owes it to you to remove the DRM for free? how exactly did you get screwed? you agreed to the price you paid for your music and you got the music you asked for, right?!?!

i certainly dont know what wording is in the contracts that apple has with the record labels, maybe someone who does can shed some light on this, but i'd imagine that apple didn't have 100% say in how much they had to charge for the DRM free content when it got added(changed over).

if anything, converting already purchased files to DRM free gives you, the customer, added capability and more freedom. so it's not like you aren't getting anything in return for your "upgrade" fee.

would it be nice if apple was doing it for free, of course. but i'm certainly not expecting them to or complaining that they aren't.

of course i'm not surprised though. seems these days anytime apple does something and charges for it, everyone complains about it not being free, or their margins are too high.

[nkawtg72]

lawsuits?!?!?! for what?

the elements they have used for the UI are ALL part of the SDK for application development in MacOS X. apple will not be suing anyone over this. besides, apple has nothing to gain by suing, and they certainly have nothing to loose if they don't sue.

personally, i'll keep using iTunes, but i think this is a good solution to a problem a lot of people talk about, 3rd party support they can't get in iTunes. i wish them well.

like others have pointed out, this solution appears to take advantage of the XML integration provided to developers for accessing the iTunes DB. just shows how easy it is, and how lame Palm has been for not doing it the right way all along.

sorry, meant to put this in the post above also....

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. even if DT could have been a little more original with their UI, i don't see it ruffling too many feathers at Apple. if anything, DT will in the long run help Apple because it will allow a person to sync a wider variety of devices to a Mac, making buying a Mac a more attractive proposition to some, which means Apple potentially will sell more Macs.

[devburke]

Wow. It's one thing to provide equivalent functionality. Even better to improve on that functionality. But it's quite another thing to produce such a blatant copy of someone else's design. As a developer, I'd be embarrassed to release such a product. It would expose my complete lack of creativity (originality) or even basic skill in designing a user interface. It would loudly scream, "Hello, world! I may be a good (or even great) programmer, but I can't design a user interface to save my life. I don't have an original bone in my body, so I'll just copy, pixel for pixel, someone else's hard work!" :rolleyes:

Hilarious. Reminds me of the legions of open source projects that so obviously copy Apple or Microsoft interfaces - I thought Amarok (http://amarok.kde.org/screenshots) was bad, but this one really takes the cake. They seriously couldn't think of any way to improve on the iTunes interface or make it just look a tiny bit different? I honestly feel embarrassed for them. :o

If Apple actually responds, I'll get the popcorn. :D :p

It’s not really just copying the look of iTunes, that’s a pretty standard look in OS X and Apple apps in general. DT is just designed to fit in, which there’s nothing wrong with. Besides, if this is designed to sync iTunes media with other devices, it only makes sense for this to look like iTunes. Cuz really it works WITH iTunes, it’s a companion in many ways. No one complained when apps like Senuti mimicked iTunes in appearance.

[iMaggot]

Looks like a good App, need to try it out.

[Jodlesx]

No playlists? Really?

Oh, well, if it improves the experience of searching Amazon.com for MP3s then I guess it can't be all bad. But I really didn't want to line the pockets of "DVD Jon" with Amazon affiliate link fees.

He's nuts, though, if he thinks that will replace my iPod.

What's wrong with "DVD Jon" earning some money?:confused:

Shouldn't we be grateful this guy is around?

[digitalbiker]

Am I the only one who thinks that itunes is pain in the butt?

I don't have any DRM music, I never supported music with DRM but yet I still have go through the activation / de-activation process with Apple. They claim I have 4 machines activated but actually I only have two. Two of the machines that they claim are still activated died before I could de-activate them.

I hate how every time I do a clean install of the OS, I have problems trying to figure out how to trick itunes to use my old itunes library when moved to a different disk.

itunes is one of the slowest starting apps I have.

itunes lacks any integration with automator.

itunes always wants to default to syncing automatically when I attach a new device. I never want the sync to take place as my itunes library is huge and usually I want to only move a subset of songs to my new device. I change the sync setting to manage data manually. But the problem is to access those settings you first have to attach the device and the default setting is to sync automatically. It's a pain in the butt.

The itunes GUI also seems to be different than most other mac apps. Some of it is the same but some of it is confusing and conflicts with normal practices for Apple.

I for one, welcome some competition and I wish Apple would rewrite itunes to take better advantage of non-DRM music manipulation. I mean, why not allow me to move music from the iphone to my itunes library.

[ungraphic]

On the surface, it looks like a really nice app.

But honestly, why use it instead of iTunes?

Because not all of us want a poor mp3 player such as the ipod? Lack of proper EQ, good battery life, good sound quality, open format support, DivX and Xvid support, etc are all reasons to omit the ipod?

I for one won't ever get another iPod. And DoubleTwist is a nice welcome, especially to devices that support UMS/MSC. I'm in the process of buying a Cowon S9, and eventhough it doesnt absolutely require software (like bloated itunes) to transfer songs or other media, it can still be used to organize mp3s based on their ID3 tags. Which is much better at finding songs via a library than folders (and subfolders), however I have the option of going about this either way. Yes, option, CHOICE, something Apple is very uncomfortable with.

Its so surprising that any kind of competition against apple gets a negative ranking, even when the software at hand is clearly very practical at what it offers.

It just really shows how close minded apple fanboys are. And good on the DoubleTwist team for using a 1984/Steve Jobs connection, because i've been pointing out Apple's hypocrisy for years now. The very thing it used to oppose, its become just that. If apple didnt display symptoms of big brother, you wouldnt see every uninformed zealot sporting white headphones with the standard apple ipod.

Back to DoubleTwist though;

Great application for devices like cowons, samsungs, etc. Finally, mac users have a peice of software on the mac side where they can sync their non-ipod devices with their libraries on their computer.

I'm still waiting for DoubleTwist to properly organize dropping of files into folders based on their ID3 tags, for instance:

MP3 file with ID3 tags as:

Arist: George Michael
Album: Ladies & Gentleman
Disc: 1 of 2
Track: Careless Whisper

It should be dropped onto the device in a folder structure such as:

Device/Music/George Michael/Ladies & Gentleman/Disc 1/01-Careless Whisper.mp3

Once thats done, im gonna be really happy.


As for iTunes itself: its way, WAY too bloated. 50+ mb of memory usage? Not everyone uses an ipod....or has an iphone, or an itunes music store account, or iTV, apps store, etc. It doesnt even deserve the name 'iTunes' and should be changed to 'iMedia'. For this reason, i'm waiting on a little application called 'Vox' http://www.voxapp.uni.cc/ to get a playlist and im never using iTunes again (uses about 10mb of ram, is super fast, and has the bare essentials for the simple task of playing back mp3s, which is the only thing i need an application to do that is running constantly in the background, since i always listen to music).

Go apple fanboys....flame me, gimme all you got, i love hearing irrational bantering.

[Skiniftz]

I really like the idea of this app as an interface into Amazon's MP3 store, however one tiny problem.

http://i35.tinypic.com/fednd4.jpg

[cal6n]

For all the selective history buffs in this thread, this is how much iTunes was a copy of SoundJam.

http://guides.macrumors.com/images/1/1d/ITunes1_vs_SoundJamMP.jpg

:rolleyes:

[healeydave]

Time to wake up. It does

No it doesn't!

I find it quite amusing that DVD Jon likes going head to head with Apple, always criticizing them and yet he has chosen to build a company based on providing software to do the same functionality, simply for other devices.

Why, because those device manufacturers cannot provide any decent software for their own devices, so they have left DVD Jon with an ideal opportunity.

If Apple chose to support other devices in iTunes, he wouldn't have a business.

I don't have a problem with DoubleTwist, I think its a good product, but I know for a fact DT has a business model that is actually providing a great service for a community of smart phones and devices other than Apples products. It started out trying to provide an alternative to Apple but with its continued lack of support for Apple's devices, and the emergence of so many smart phones recently, it now has a significant base of users without needing to tread on Apples toe's any more!

I have been monitoring DoubleTwist since the very first version. I still don't use it because I don't have any of the devices supported. I have an iPhone and iPod. Its a nice alternative if I had a supported device.

Historically DoubleTwist has never supported Apple's own products long enough to invest the time & trouble in accumulating a library that would then be useless when you can't sync it to your iPhone. This doesn't look like changing any time soon either!

DVD Jon has a great community of other smart phones he can support. The latest DT release is highly similar to iTunes itself which is himself acknowledging Apple has a good product and the iPod/iPhone all sewn up, so why try and compete in that arena when Blackberry, Android etc and crying out for something like DoubleTwist.

As this is the case, DVD Jon would be better off not wasting time continually berating Apple and spending it with more development of DoubleTwist for the family of manufacturers that don't have the luxury of iTunes.

Of-course that really is his plan, if your intelligent enough to work this out, the reason DoubleTwist keeps with the Apple bashing is because it generates a huge amount of interest by the Media which results in massive influxes of downloads every time they do another crazy stunt.

In fact DoubleTwist really has had no beef with Apple for some time since Blackberry, Android, Palm etc left their users high & dry with capability but no decent software!

[Parky]

Am I the only one who thinks that itunes is pain in the butt?

I don't have any DRM music, I never supported music with DRM but yet I still have go through the activation / de-activation process with Apple. They claim I have 4 machines activated but actually I only have two. Two of the machines that they claim are still activated died before I could de-activate them.

I hate how every time I do a clean install of the OS, I have problems trying to figure out how to trick itunes to use my old itunes library when moved to a different disk.

itunes is one of the slowest starting apps I have.

itunes lacks any integration with automator.

itunes always wants to default to syncing automatically when I attach a new device. I never want the sync to take place as my itunes library is huge and usually I want to only move a subset of songs to my new device. I change the sync setting to manage data manually. But the problem is to access those settings you first have to attach the device and the default setting is to sync automatically. It's a pain in the butt.

The itunes GUI also seems to be different than most other mac apps. Some of it is the same but some of it is confusing and conflicts with normal practices for Apple.

I for one, welcome some competition and I wish Apple would rewrite itunes to take better advantage of non-DRM music manipulation. I mean, why not allow me to move music from the iphone to my itunes library.

The machines that died are still authorised, not sure how Apple are supposed to know they have died. Simple solution, use the deauthorise all machines options that Apple offer, which will remove the 2 problem machines.

[Povilas]

Managing music has never been easier? She/they are drunk or what?


P.S Some parts of the UI, it's very strange, but look like iTunes to me :D

[Kelmon]

I can see the appeal of the application if you are using a non iPod/iPhone device but beyond that it just looks like iTunes-lite. The idea that it has "never been easier" to manage content on your device is probably only true if your device isn't an iPod/iPhone since I hardly call manually drag-n-drop making my life easier. Equally, purchasing content via iTunes has hardly been difficult.

While I like competition, and definitely believe that iTunes needs a kick in the pants, this isn't doing much for me. However, I suppose that it would at least open doors to non-Apple products in the future, if I decided to move away from the iPod/iPhone lines.

Needless to say that if you are an iTunes user with a Pre then this solution is no doubt better than Palm's current one. It should at least work reliably.

[Cydonia]

The machines that died are still authorised, not sure how Apple are supposed to know they have died. Simple solution, use the deauthorise all machines options that Apple offer, which will remove the 2 problem machines.

Cheers for that, i just couldn't be bothered explaining something so simple to such a simple person. RTFM!:D

[Bonte]

Would be nice if he stripped the Zune subscription DRM to use on a Mac, iTunes doesn't need to be hacked anymore.

[ditzy]

The machines that died are still authorised, not sure how Apple are supposed to know they have died. Simple solution, use the deauthorise all machines options that Apple offer, which will remove the 2 problem machines.

I believe that this only works once you have authorised 5 computers. Which is a pain.

[SG1-1]

I guess its pretty weak that iTunes is the same design as soundjam. I mean apple bought it but lets give credit where credit is due. Apple did not come up with this UI.

Also why fix what isn't broken. I don't get the negative comments toward double twist. Not everyone wants, needs, or can afford an iphone or ipod. Some people just don't want those devices. I may not agree with that but having an app that supports it makes sense. So I really don't get the negative comments toward this app. At the end of the day competition is important and this will help apple keep itunes innovative and competitive.

And Frankly if this will let me sync my iphone with more than one computer which i think it does... than i'm all for it. Also it looks like it will let me play songs off my iphone when i'm not connected to my main computer. Which is really frustrating that I can't do that to begin with.

Yea SoundJam looks just like iTunes... NOT :rolleyes:

197830

cal6n Had beat me to it, Thanks my Friend, This thread is going fast

[rdlink]

It's comments like: "Why would you use an inferior device?" that make me a little ashamed that I own a Macbook, and an iPod Touch, and an iPod Shuffle.

Guys, get over yourselves. I run iTunes, and use it to sync my Apple devices. It works acceptably for that, though it's not perfect (Blasphemy!).

However, calling my MyTouch an inferior device steps over the line. Sorry to tell you, but the MyTouch is a SUPERIOR device, simply because it does not run on the AT&T network. Beyond that it's open source, which makes it far more customizable than my iPod devices. It also allows me to run multiple apps at one time.

Simple fact is this: This software does something I was looking for. It makes synching my iTunes library with my device of choice easy. BTW: You can put playlists on the Android.

BTW: This is no threat whatsoever to Apple. Between those users who like the simplicity (and lack of personalization and control) of the iTunes interface with their Apple devices, and the fanbois who will defend beyond all reason, iTunes/iPod/iPhone will have more than enough users to keep its dominance.

[goosnarrggh]

There is no more DRM so I don't get why the guy is making this app while being so against the iPod. This app can sync with other devices. Great. I don't get the point?
That is exactly the point. A one-stop application that is as centralized and easy to use as iTunes, but natively and deliberately compatible with other hardware. Offering a simple, consistent content acquisition and device synchronization experience for all hardware no matter what manufacturer. Great idea, if you ask me.

[Fluffy Bunny]

I'm going to try this baby out. I don't care where I get my music, but it has to be easy to sync with iPod/iPhone. Right now, I hate that Amazon downloader. I have to download the software everytime I buy a song on Amazon. And last time it didn't work properly (but still charged me; but I did get a credit). Plus I buy enough on Amazon that I also have $5 of MP3 credits racked up that I don't always use.

I don't like iTunes, but it works as far as syncing and the purchase process is simple.

OK, time to try out this double twist thing.

[fifthworld]

Nice. It partially shows what Apple could have done with iTunes if not so much concerned in overprotecting their business model and serve consumers instead. I will definitely try doubletwist out, iTunes is really slow in managing my music library of about 20,000 songs in ALAC format. Competition is good. Listening to consumers needs even better. Bring it on.

[cal6n]

I believe that this only works once you have authorised 5 computers. Which is a pain.

Err... no!

[TC316]

Wow, how lame. It always interesting to me how this company is allowed to steal the look of a software package and call it their own. How about developing your own software? It's obvious they don't have any talent or skill... How sad.........:apple::apple::apple:

[Fluffy Bunny]

I just used it and it works like a charm. I love it. And not because of the interface which is as crappy as iTunes. I love it because it allows me to access Amazon music store (and my mp3 credits). I downloaded the MP3, right clicked for show in Finder and dragged into my iTunes music library for syncing.

I am not sure why everyone is so angry about the way the software looks. I don't think Xerox PARC got all riled up 30 years ago when Jobs "visited" with his notepad in tow.

[Compile 'em all]

On the surface, it looks like a really nice app.

But honestly, why use it instead of iTunes?

Geez, did you even bother reading the OP or checking what doubletwist actually is?

Man, sometimes reading the posts in here makes me want to kill myself.

Doubletwist is a great piece of software and is very polished.

[fifthworld]

Nice. It partially shows what Apple could have done with iTunes if not so much concerned in overprotecting their business model and serve consumers instead. I will definitely try doubletwist out, iTunes is really slow in managing my music library of about 20,000 songs in ALAC format. Competition is good. Listening to consumers needs even better. Bring it on.

Installed and find out that is too limited and totally useless for me.

[kurosov]

It's nice to see more options out there for people to choose from but personally, I'm happy with iTunes.

At least it doesn't look liek that godawful WMP.

[disagree]

Does it let me put in a DVD and import it to my library?

Come on!

[blizaine]

What do you mean stolen? Apple bought the rights to SoundJam.

http://www.maclife.com/article/feature/the_complete_itunes_history

not only that but apple actually created the nice user interface. Sound Jam looked nothing like it.

[jointsmoking]

Whmmm, I downloaded it. First it calls home, they wants you to join something, agreeing to a EULA under Cayman Island laws. I deleted it.

[LagunaSol]

Wow, the "Anything But Apple" fanboys are thick as flies in here.

A few facts for the factually challenged:

1) iTunes is SoundJam - Apple bought SoundJam and the result was iTunes. It was not a rip off but an acquisition.

2) Xerox received Apple stock and former members of the Xerox PARC team worked on the Lisa/Mac GUI. It was hardly Steve Jobs covertly sneaking around their labs with "notebook in hand." When will this ridiculous chestnut die? I know the Winbots love to scream that Microsoft may have copied Apple but Apple copied Xerox first don't know the actual history of the thing.

3) DoubleTwist is not an iTunes "competitor," it's an iTunes carbon copy. The colors, the layout, the icons - DVD Jon couldn't be bothered with creating his own app, he simply took Apple's work and repurposed it. That the horde here seems to think that's just fine and dandy is bewildering to say the least - though bashing Apple despite the absence of any rational thought seems to be the trend here on MacRumors these days, as the Psystar and DoubleTwist fanboys (i.e. the "We'll hitch our wagon to anyone who will spit in Apple's face" crowd) will attest.

An iTunes competitor? Great idea! But make your own.

[bretm]

It's pretty weak that they couldn't come up with their own design.

They're actually just designing to the specs Apple wants them to. Looks like the finder, safari, itunes, preview, iphoto, iDVD, iWeb, etc. Not exactly earth shattering. Just a design that has evolved. Sources/directories on the left, content/activity on the right. Just like a file browser on windows 95 for that matter. Oh, am I dating myself?

[baryon]

Uhm does she actually say "Leave your iPod at home and use your phone's media player"?

That's like saying leave your coat at home and dress up in toilet paper instead!

Who would want to listen to music on a phone if they own an iPod? There's nothing worse than having to go to "Menu>Applications>Media Services>MP3 Player>Browse song" to play a damn song, especially with 10MB of memory where you might be able to fit 2 songs and a battery life of like 45 minutes!

It doesn't make sense! If you already have an iPod, why would you bother using this software anyway? If you don't have an iPod but some other device, then you can just drag and drop files from the finder, why bother doing drag and drop from this app?

[Rot'nApple]

Why? :confused:

Why a lawsuit... Can that program look any more "Apple-esque"?

For Heaven's sake, use a different color, place your nav menu on the top tier... do something, other than to take a page from the Chinese and "Pirate" the "look" and possibly "feel" of Apple's iTunes... as opposed to being outright blatant in your lack of originality!

On a lighter note, Hey Palm, that Pre battle your having, well here you go!

[cloud]

Just a question.

If you hate Apple so much, then why the hell are you here?

:apple:

[Rot'nApple]

They're actually just designing to the specs Apple wants them to. Looks like the finder, safari, itunes, preview, iphoto, iDVD, iWeb, etc. Not exactly earth shattering. Just a design that has evolved. Sources/directories on the left, content/activity on the right. Just like a file browser on windows 95 for that matter. Oh, am I dating myself?

Design to Apple's specs, but is Apple saying use our color theme? And they have to design to look like the finder or not? If they are because that is the way Apple wants it, it kind of makes Apple's previous lawsuits against computer makers that "mimic" Apple's hardware design kind of mute! :eek:

[NAG]

Just drag and drop music to your phone, and apparently it has never been easier...

Yeah, I can think of a few times it has been easier.

Good job making the Amazon store look better though.

[tbrinkma]

Yeah I think Apple will sue them for sure. They have copied iTunes almost exactly, including the look and feel of the program. I'm sure DVD Jon is infringing on quite a few Apple trademarks. He has a history of thumbing his nose to copyright, and I'm sure he's doing it again here. Guys like this do it on purpose.

I haven't done any sort of in-depth comparison, but while I'm fairly sure he isn't infringing on trademarks, in his efforts to mimic the iTunes look and feel, it's possible he may have run into trade dress issues. (I don't have the expertise to say one way or the other for sure, but it's a risk when you try to mimic something exactly.)

[mkubal]

Geez, did you even bother reading the OP or checking what doubletwist actually is?

Man, sometimes reading the posts in here makes me want to kill myself.

Doubletwist is a great piece of software and is very polished.

Agreed on all points.

Macrumors is apparently brimming with lawyers as well now. Anything that looks the remotest bit like Apple's work is lawsuit worthy. It amazes me that despite guarantees by the sea of Macrumors lawyers, the Palm Pre did manage to be released.

That being said, I like this piece of software for the Amazon integration (which I use), but I think it'll need a few more updates (podcasts would be nice) before I jump in.

<The horror!>
Until then I will continue to sync my Pre with iTunes.
</The horror!>

[Unspeaked]

Yeah, SoundJam and iTunes look nothing alike.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9171/sjit.png

(And this is using the 2009 version of iTunes for comparison - it was even closer to SoundJam when it was first released in '01.)

[djgamble]

Uhhh... you do realize that iTunes was basically Apple's stolen version of Cassidy & Greene's SoundJam, right? They literally used the same exact code in about 75% of the application.

That... and they paid for it + gave the developers full-time jobs...
But we'll forget that part :P

[djgamble]

Meh DVD Jon's just a good publicist... he wasn't even the 1st guy to crack the DVD code, he just went public and said "ooooh I cracked a DVD!" But he didn't...

He's a clown and a publicist... seems to be making a buck out of it too... so good on him I guess? I'll never use Doubletwist...

[gimpymw]

Uhhh... you do realize that iTunes was basically Apple's stolen version of Cassidy & Greene's SoundJam, right? They literally used the same exact code in about 75% of the application.

Stolen? Ha!

You could give Soviet censors a run for their money.

Apple didn't steal anything. Apple bought Sound Jam and turned it into iTunes.

Love the way you tell a story you douche.

[RebootD]

Well I could care less if they used the default GUI elements and didn't customize them. From what I've read they didn't copy iTunes but used the standard XCODE elements.

Besides that if it can help me sync playlists with my Pre so I don't have to wait for Apple to break syncing again I'll use it.

[aristotle]

Yeah, SoundJam and iTunes look nothing alike.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9171/sjit.png

(And this is using the 2009 version of iTunes for comparison - it was even closer to SoundJam when it was first released in '01.)
Are you high? You are comparing the mini mode of iTunes with Sound Jam.

Winamp has a separate song list window, sound jam has a separate song list window. iTunes does not.

[MrMoore]

Why a lawsuit... Can that program look any more "Apple-esque"?

For Heaven's sake, use a different color, place your nav menu on the top tier... do something, other than to take a page from the Chinese and "Pirate" the "look" and possibly "feel" of Apple's iTunes... as opposed to being outright blatant in your lack of originality!



Yeah, but PathFinder looks simialir to Finder in some respect. The sidebar for example and you don't see Apple suing Cocoatech.

Didn't Apple try before with Microsoft in the look and feel aspect? That didn't turn out too well.

[Digital Dude]

I smell a lawsuit... :eek:

At first I thought the same thing but I doubt that Apple will really care. Still, it amazes me how technology all comes back to “how can we copy Apple and still be considered innovators”. Really, I couldn’t care less who has the better mousetrap, it’s just depressing that so many companies are this lazy, especially MS MicroCopy.
Regards,

[Unspeaked]

Are you high? You are comparing the mini mode of iTunes with Sound Jam.

Winamp has a separate song list window, sound jam has a separate song list window. iTunes does not.

How could I be so silly! Apple clearly took a similar looking play window, a similar looking playlist window and a similar looking equalizer and combined them into a single window, thus making all the other similarities moot.

Oh, and they touched up that single window with the same brushed metal look C&G had introduced in the SoundJam software previously - but that makes no difference whatsoever, right?

Yeah, I'm the high one.

I have no problem with Apple taking the interface bit for bit if they wanted because they bought it, but anyone who thinks iTunes didn't borrow heavily from the SoundJam interface is just crazy - not only because they look really similar, but also because as those same people are saying, Apple bought the product and engineers - what else would it look like?

What would really drive the point home would be to also include screen shots of products such as Audion into the mix so you could see how different to those SoundJam and iTunes were and how alike to one another they felt. As a huge SoundJam fan and a hater of Audion's interface, I was thrilled when Apple's discussions with Audion fell through and they instead built their MP3 player upon C&G's product, so trust me when I say the two looked (and acted) a lot alike.

[Peace]

Keep this in mind when bashing Apple about SoundJam.

Apple legally purchased Soundjam and their IP. They then proceeded to re-design the look and way it worked. All done legally while at the same time hiring the developers of Soundjam. That is done in the IT world all the time.

Now what DoubleTwist did was basically really steal the look of iTunes. They didnt purchase any company or hire any developers that designed a previous media player. They flat out copied the idea. Without buying any company or hiring that companies employees..

That is the difference between a company doing legitimate business and a company that just decided to rip off the look of another companies design.

[AlmostThere]

At first I thought the same thing but I doubt that Apple will really care. Still, it amazes me how technology all comes back to “how can we copy Apple and still be considered innovators”. Really, I couldn’t care less who has the better mousetrap, it’s just depressing that so many companies are this lazy.
Regards,

It surprises me how many people take one look at a screen shot and use that as a base for their opinion - never judge a book by its cover, as they say.

There are different ways to woo customers away from an existing product (not forgetting the overhead that iTunes comes installed on every Mac) - offer a different way of doing things or offer to do something different.

If the interface was radically different, everyone would be up in arms about how the software doesn't fit with Mac UI guidelines. Secondly, it would add additional overhead when they want to transition users as easily as possible (how many cars do you see with a different set of controls? Half the people here complaining about a copied interface probably thing it is a good idea to change the clutch-brake-accelerator pedal ordering :eek: )

What these guys have done is add additional functionality and develop a media management system that supports multiple devices from multiple manufacturers and incorporates a store. This is something Apple clearly lack the skill or foresight to do.

Don't use DoubleTwist if you don't like it, but don't knock the genuine advantages it brings the customers, and those who want the choice it affords. I am glad that I have an option when it comes to music player and phone choice AND can still use a Mac with minimal worries about compatibility, something Apple are happy to let slip (Macs "just work"? Not for some time, sadly).

[PeterQVenkman]

All I would care about is Zune HD support on the Mac. That's it.

[ChazUK]

I really don't get it.

Palm emulate an iPod for iTunes syncing:
They are evil and should develop their own app. :mad::mad::mad:

Someone develops an app that can sync to the pre (as well as many devices):
WTF is the point? Inferior phone. They copy iTunes. iTunes is the best! :apple:

Is anyone ever happy on these forums? :confused:

On DoubleTwist:
I'm just wiping my HTC Hero SD card to try this out. Looks good.

[MrMoore]

Is anyone ever happy on these forums? :confused:



Nope.

Palm: Make iTunes work with Pre. Stealing from Apple (Against Apple)
DoubleTwist: Manage music with other phone. Stealing from Apple (Against Apple)

It does not matter. If you do something against Apple they will complain.

:rolleyes::D

[John.B]

All I would care about is Zune HD support on the Mac. That's it.
Which apparently could be coming: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/10/07/microsoft_considers_extending_zune_services_to_apple_users.html

[joueboy]

This must be a good news for Palm Pre since they cannot make their very own synching application for their device. They could have just hired DVD Jon and replace all their programmers and name it Palm Twist. This program should stop Palm annoying Apple now.

[ungraphic]

This thread is full of brainwashed apple zealots. Only one person read my original comment and agree (well, at least one).

Its so sad to see a lack of logic from mac users. Makes me embarrassed to even own a mac myself.

[bilbo--baggins]

Back in 1984 Apple was leading the way with something new and innovative, not just a cloned DOS machine.

This new app is just a clone of iTunes, nothing new, nothing innovative. They have a cheek to copy Apple's ad, not to mention iTunes.

[ungraphic]

I'm still waiting for DoubleTwist to properly organize dropping of files into folders based on their ID3 tags, for instance:

MP3 file with ID3 tags as:

Arist: George Michael
Album: Ladies & Gentleman
Disc: 1 of 2
Track: Careless Whisper

It should be dropped onto the device in a folder structure such as:

Device/Music/George Michael/Ladies & Gentleman/Disc 1/01-Careless Whisper.mp3

Once thats done, im gonna be really happy.


Just updated DoubleTwist last night and had a go at it this morning with my iAudio i5 (which doesnt require software like iTunes, suckazz).

It fixed the whole folder creation problem. Mp3s are now sent to the device into subfolders and are neatly organized.

Looks like I now have an official iTunes replacement for media management with my mp3 players. One step closer to ditching itunes completely, now waiting for Vox to update itself as well. Good riddance bloated software :)

[dukebound85]

DT needs to fix the music keys

the play/stop buttons are left to be desired

other than that i love it as it allows for a crap load of devices to sync with

[jptelthorst]

This app crashed the first time I ran it. And it does look just like iTunes in many, many ways. I appreciate the effort at providing choice to what devices you play your music on, but try to be original, don't just copy iTunes.

[Fluffy Bunny]

This app crashed the first time I ran it. And it does look just like iTunes in many, many ways. I appreciate the effort at providing choice to what devices you play your music on, but try to be original, don't just copy iTunes.

Sounds like user error. It has worked fine for me all day.

[Xibalba]

while i welcome all kinds of competition and this doubletwist does look quite good, i will stick with itunes for ease of connection with my iphone and appleTVs around the house.

[dukebound85]

This app crashed the first time I ran it. And it does look just like iTunes in many, many ways. I appreciate the effort at providing choice to what devices you play your music on, but try to be original, don't just copy iTunes.

or the people at DT know everyone and their mom has itunes so they tried to emulate the program but also add more functionality to it

think of gimp/gimpshop vs photoshop or openoffice to MS office

they emulate as they know what people are familiar with

i for one appreciate it

once zune support is included, i will be very happy

[jptelthorst]

Sounds like user error. It has worked fine for me all day.

Was my error when I opened the App?

[ungraphic]

Was my error when I opened the App?

Probably not.

My copy of doubletwist has been running from since i got it back in april. Works great. Love how it syncs with my non-apple devices (and i got many).

[inkswamp]

My point was "Apple doesn't do it right the first time," since they didn't even do it. I'm aware they paid for it, much like how they paid for what they took from Xerox.

And, like the Xerox example, Apple added a ton of new ideas to it that they are infrequently given credit for. They didn't just take someone else's idea and run with it as-is. Did you ever use the original SoundJam yourself? I did, and iTunes is vastly different, despite using some of the same code. Apple added a massive amount of new features to SoundJam.

And in case you think I'm kidding about the Xerox example, read here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_graphical_user_interface) and here (http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=On_Xerox,_Apple_and_Progress.txt&topic=Software%20Design&sortOrder=Sort%20by%20Date).

[MacSince1990]

For all the selective history buffs in this thread, this is how much iTunes was a copy of SoundJam.

http://guides.macrumors.com/images/1/1d/ITunes1_vs_SoundJamMP.jpg

:rolleyes:

Um... this is a joke right?

OS X has a Unix core, right? No one ever said they had to look alike. I modded my original iTunes so it looked drastically different (2.0.4 in OS 9); does that mean I have a new version of iTunes I made myself? No. The code is identical, I didn't touch it.

This was silly.

[inkswamp]

Um... this is a joke right?

OS X has a Unix core, right? No one ever said they had to look alike. I modded my original iTunes so it looked drastically different (2.0.4 in OS 9); does that mean I have a new version of iTunes I made myself? No. The code is identical, I didn't touch it.

This was silly.

What's silly is you defeat your own argument by taking this to the code level. Apple used SoundJam as a starting point for iTunes. That means, iTunes 1.0 was not the same code as SJ. They shared code, but they were not identical in terms of code.

You just argued against yourself. I find it strangely fascinating to watch you defeat your own points. :D

[silentnite]

Hey! I'll give em some credit, at least their trying. I have to say it looks really nice. although I'm sure I've seen something just like this before. :confused:

Note: To Twist beware of palm pre. If they like it your in trouble. :D

[MacSince1990]

What's silly is you defeat your own argument by taking this to the code level. Apple used SoundJam as a starting point for iTunes. That means, iTunes 1.0 was not the same code as SJ. They shared code, but they were not identical in terms of code.

You just argued against yourself. I find it strangely fascinating to watch you defeat your own points. :D

No, I didn't. The original point I was responding to was "Apple gets it right the first time," but actually Apple based their product on SoundJam.

Sure, DT is clearly an iTunes rip-off, I was merely pointing out that Apple did the same thing. Sure they did it legally, but that's not the point I'm making.

Understand?

[Roessnakhan]

This program looks very promising. The day an Android device really wins me over (HTC Hero almost did), I get fed up with AT&T, or my contract ends I'll be looking to this puppy to sync my new phone.

[ungraphic]

DT is clearly an iTunes rip-off

It is not an iTunes ripoff.

I'm so tired of this ignorant statement. It is a peice of software that acts 'like' iTunes to bring forth proper syncing capabilities to devices on OS X that are not iPods (because, as mentioned earlier, not all of us want a limiting dap/pmp device!).

Aesthetically speaking, yes, it features a similar layout. It is, however, FAR from being a total knockoff. Did you cry the same rhetoric when apple blatantly ripped off Creative's hierarchical navigation, which lead to a lawsuit that Apple basically lost? No? What about when Apple bought out the guys behind Coverflow and put it into OS X and iTunes? Did you have any complaints then? No? What about the whole Soundjam deal? No complaints there either, I suppose, right?

You people are acting as if iTunes is the holy grail of device management. IT IS NOT. It is far from it, and it only works with iPods. You people also CLEARLY do not accept the fact that there are other mp3 players that exist beyond the iPod world.

God, I cannot believe how dense some of you are.

[bobertoq]

It is not an iTunes ripoff.

I'm so tired of this ignorant statement. It is a peice of software that acts 'like' iTunes to bring forth proper syncing capabilities to devices on OS X that are not iPods (because, as mentioned earlier, not all of us want a limiting dap/pmp device!).

Aesthetically speaking, yes, it features a similar layout. It is, however, FAR from being a total knockoff. Did you cry the same rhetoric when apple blatantly ripped off Creative's hierarchical navigation, which lead to a lawsuit that Apple basically lost? No? What about when Apple bought out the guys behind Coverflow and put it into OS X and iTunes? Did you have any complaints then? No? What about the whole Soundjam deal? No complaints there either, I suppose, right?

You people are acting as if iTunes is the holy grail of device management. IT IS NOT. It is far from it, and it only works with iPods. You people also CLEARLY do not accept the fact that there are other mp3 players that exist beyond the iPod world.

God, I cannot believe how dense some of you are.Thank you!! Just because something looks similar to iTunes doesn't mean it's a ripoff and just because it's not owned by Apple doesn't mean it sucks. Jeepers.

[MacSince1990]

Thank you!! Just because something looks similar to iTunes doesn't mean it's a ripoff and just because it's not owned by Apple doesn't mean it sucks. Jeepers.

*Blinks* When did I ever say it sucked?

And you're right. I misspoke. I didn't really mean "rip-off," I meant it's clearly inspired by iTunes.


Aesthetically speaking, yes, it features a similar layout. It is, however, FAR from being a total knockoff. Did you cry the same rhetoric when apple blatantly ripped off Creative's hierarchical navigation, which lead to a lawsuit that Apple basically lost? No? What about when Apple bought out the guys behind Coverflow and put it into OS X and iTunes? Did you have any complaints then? No? What about the whole Soundjam deal? No complaints there either, I suppose, right?

Um... I've been talking about Apple taking creative licenses in this whole thread.. specifically with SoundJam. I don't like it when Apple does it... it bothers me less when other 3rd-parties do it to Apple.

I didn't like it when Apple ripped off Kaleidoscope, either.... not to mention the 12 trillion other products they've assimilated. They're the Romans of software... lol =P

[bobertoq]

My comment wasn't aimed towards you directly ;)

Now if you want a complete iTunes ripoff, look at Songbird.

[ungraphic]

My comment wasn't aimed towards you directly ;)

Now if you want a complete iTunes ripoff, look at Songbird.

Far from it, for a number of reasons;

-based on Mozilla open source code (main reason)
-allows for add-ons
-features a full-scale web browser
-device management for various devices
-completely different UI, yet you guys complain about doubleTwists so called 'ripping off' ??

I like where Songbird is headed, but it uses more RAM than iTunes, and doesnt support any of the devices i own, and thats mainly because the Mac OS X version doest get all the add-ons as the windows counterpart does. Good software, but has a bit more to go before it gets to the 'iTunes' level.

[twoodcc]

i wonder if apple will do anything about this?

[John.B]

It is not an iTunes ripoff.
I was in complete disagreement with you, but your clever user of a single sentence in an embiggened 28pt Helvetica Black font magically swayed me to your side. ;)

Did you cry the same rhetoric when apple blatantly ripped off Creative's hierarchical navigation, which lead to a lawsuit that Apple basically lost? No? What about when Apple bought out the guys behind Coverflow and put it into OS X and iTunes? Did you have any complaints then? No? What about the whole Soundjam deal? No complaints there either, I suppose, right?
The obvious difference is that Creative, Steel Skies (http://www.steelskies.com/coverflow/), and Casady & Greene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoundJam_MP) were all paid for their intellectual property. I know, such a minor point, but it somehow seemed germane to the discussion. :p

[GSMiller]

Sweeeet! I've tried Songbird but it's just too buggy. This should be awesome given I always buy from Amazon MP3.

[dukebound85]

i wonder if apple will do anything about this?

on what basis though?

its like MS going after open office or adobe going after gimp

[pdjudd]

i wonder if apple will do anything about this?

Why? There have been many other media players before and there are others today. Apple doesn’t care about them really. The only Apple player support is the iPod (on Windows) and older iPhones (2.0 firmware - in other words no 3GS - again Windows only). Apple is pretty confident that most people using Apple media players are already using iTunes. DoubleTwist has a long road ahead of them to affect Apples halo with their own products. Doesn’t matter much since this seems to be mostly targeted for other devices - and it only does music, videos, and maybe photos.

[albusseverus]

Further to my 'it needs to work with my iTunes library and iPhone' comment - Does it do podcasts? If Double Twist doesn't do podcasts, at least as well as iTunes, it's a total bust for me.

[orrelse44]

It doesn't support the iPhone unless it's jailbroken. I currently have mine connected and DT does not see it.


Is there something you need to download from Cydia to get it to recognize? My iphone is jailbroken on 3.0 and it won't recognize it.

Doubletwist says it only supports software 2.0.

[chevyorange]

I have 3 iPods and an iPhone... 100GB of music, who knows how many of movies and podcasts and iTunes has worked like a dream for me. I have helped friends set up vast amounts of different software on different platforms (minus Zune and it’s sandbox, I don’t know anyone that has one). I have read much about the Zune software though, and it appears good.

That being said, I have not run across anything BETTER than iTunes - and many that are in the ballpark or much, much worse.

I guess I’m wondering what people want out of iTunes that they feel it is lacking? Other than, of course, making it work with every single device in the world!

Anyway, I’ll be interested in seeing what DT does to the market... but I am one of those that thinks it it is lacking in originality and more of a copy of iTunes than an homage!

[chevyorange]

I have no problem with Apple taking the interface bit for bit if they wanted because they bought it, but anyone who thinks iTunes didn't borrow heavily from the SoundJam interface is just crazy.

You are high, apparently. They didn’t “borrow” they bought and owned.

[EssentialParado]

I hope doubleTwist kicks Apple's butt! Competition is good! I hope it gets Apple innovating the iTunes interface and usability again. It's been pretty stagnant.

I would like that too, but putting out an identical carbon copy does nothing to encourage any innovation.

[Tuxie]

I would like that too, but putting out an identical carbon copy does nothing to encourage any innovation.

But DT is not an identical carbon copy. It has support for many more devices and file formats and it uses another online store. It also lacks the biggest bug of iTunes: Vendor lock-in.

Personally I'd rather see Songbird become mature enough though. Right now it lacks many super-basic features (compilation grouping ffs!) and is rather buggy. Maybe in a couple of years...

[SG1-1]

But DT is not an identical carbon copy. It has support for many more devices and file formats and it uses another online store. It also lacks the biggest bug of iTunes: Vendor lock-in.

Personally I'd rather see Songbird become mature enough though. Right now it lacks many super-basic features (compilation grouping ffs!) and is rather buggy. Maybe in a couple of years...


All Music is DRM Free at this time on iTunes.

Movies & Music Videos are required by the Studios to have DRM and this goes for ever provider of Movie Downloads.

Vender Lock in has nothing to do with Apples Own Media Software for their own Devices.

Vender Lock in is a restriction of both "HARDWARE or SOFTWARE" Since Apple Publishes it own API and XML Information to access iTunes Library's it is not Vender Locked in.

Not liking the choice of Software doesn't mean it is a Vender Lock-in anyone can access itunes XML files and use the API to develop their own package.
Example is Motorola's new software, it accesses Apples iTunes Just Fine, So the Lock-in Comment is a Ruse of misunderstanding and entitlement.

By your comment there is no context's to substantiate your Vender Lock in remark.

And on the flip side; if iPod / iPhone and iTunes was locked into each other that would mean that only itunes could be used as a media supplier but look at the options.

Anyone can use these services to get music from.

1.) Amazon Music Store
2.) eMusic
3.) Napster
4.) Rhapsody
5.) iTunes

iTunes is offered Free and its primary means is to support Apple Devices it's just an added bonus that users can download and use it even if they don't have an Apple Device. But Apple Has never Advertised Syncing with other devices officially.

A Vender or individual can develop their own syncing software to manage their own hardware and then in turn use the Published Apple iTunes API and XML files to add to their own Software.

People may not like it, but there is nothing against the law here, if there was Microsoft would be up the creek also since Microsoft marketplace is not offered for iPod or iPhones and is the sole distributor for Zune with syncing capabilities.

Both Apple and Microsoft have their own Software platforms for their perspective Hardware devices, and they may offer what support they want on their own terms since it is part of the Business model they choose to follow.

You may not like it, but business is businesses and choice is a consumers option, you can chose whatever device you like to fit your needs "Research the Best device for yourself and purchase it" but arguing about not having more options of choice in software with "Lock-in" when there is no lock-in after the fact is completely asinine.

Vender Lock-In is a Common term used by the Linux free software brigade when they don't like something, it's not a widely used term.

[rdlink]

Just a question.

If you hate Apple so much, then why the hell are you here?

:apple:


I own a MacBook Pro, and iPod Touch, an iPod Shuffle, an AppleTV, and an Airport Extreme. I've bought an iMac, an iPod Shuffle and an AppleTV for my girlfriend. Clearly, I don't hate Apple. I do, however, get fed up with all of the Apple apologists/fanbois who stick their fingers in their ears and sing loudly when someone dares to question their deity, the great Steve Jobs.

This product is not a copy of iTunes, and it really isn't even competition to it, unless you think of iTunes and the iPod franchise as one integrated product.
This product allows users of other devices to leverage their music collection, one that they've already paid for, on other devices besides the iPod. It also allows them to easily buy music from someone other than Apple.

I use iTunes to sync my iPod products, and feed my AppleTV, because it works reasonably well for that purpose, and better than anything else (Nothing else really will work, because Apple has worked diligently to prevent that.). Of course, Apple has had 8 years of complete control of the hardware and software, in a closed architecture, to get it to where it stands today, while this product is designed to work well with a multitude of different devices from different manufacturers. Case in point, after I loaded it yesterday morning, I was able to sync my iTunes library, and playlists onto both my MyTouch and my Blackberry within a few minutes.

As far as the a**inine statement earlier in the forum asking "Why would you use an inferior device?" All I can say is this:

My MyTouch:

Has a removable battery
Has removable and upgradeable storage
Can run multiple applications at once
Uses a carrier that isn't AT&T
Has a very open source OS
Looks great (subjective, I know)
Is just as easy to use as the iPhone (I've run both. Have you?)

Seems to me that an argument could be made that the iPhone is the inferior device, depending on how much value you put on the items above.

[tk421]

What's that got to do with anything? :rolleyes:

Well, I was replying to some other folks. I thought that was evident...

...DoubleTwist is not an iTunes "competitor," it's an iTunes carbon copy. The colors, the layout, the icons - DVD Jon couldn't be bothered with creating his own app, he simply took Apple's work and repurposed it...

An iTunes competitor? Great idea! But make your own.

This is my feeling exactly. Yes, there are a few new features (the profile and feed) but these are pretty minor.

Seems especially silly that they present themselves as the nonconformist choice, when in fact they just duplicate it. And how about that 1984-style commercial? An ad that depicts being unique that is a remake of another ad? :confused::eek:

[Unspeaked]

You are high, apparently. They didn’t “borrow” they bought and owned.

You must have noticed the snippet you quoted very plainly shows me saying Apple bought the product.

Buying a product and building off it are not the same thing, and thus my use of the phrase "borrowed heavily."

It wasn't the same product that they bought and rebranded, it was a new product that they built which borrowed features from their new purchase. Is that so difficult to understand?

[John.B]

It wasn't the same product that they bought and rebranded, it was a new product that they built which borrowed features from their new purchase. Is that so difficult to understand?
This has been the way to add features to existing products since the inception of IT. Is that your objection? Are you looking for some sort of technological purity here, that it's only a valid product if it was originally hatched as an internal project?

[EssentialParado]

It is not an iTunes ripoff.
I was in complete disagreement with you, but your clever user of a single sentence in an embiggened 28pt Helvetica Black font magically swayed me to your side. ;)
Hehe… Kamil has never been one for having a stable personality. ;)

[ungraphic]

Hehe… Kamil has never been one for having a stable personality. ;)

Same goes for your moderating skills and general social acceptance.

Go away Luke.

[jptelthorst]

or the people at DT know everyone and their mom has itunes so they tried to emulate the program but also add more functionality to it

think of gimp/gimpshop vs photoshop or openoffice to MS office

they emulate as they know what people are familiar with

i for one appreciate it

once zune support is included, i will be very happy

You are just citing other examples of copy-catting. If GIMP's main focus is to simply emulate photoshop, they will always be 1-2 steps behind Adobe, and GIMP will always be a poor substitute for photoshop that people have to settle for.

Mozilla Firefox did not copy IE, they created a better browser, which I believe is why it is popular. What if OS X was just an emulation of Windows, because as you put it "everyone and their mom has [Windows]." DT is not going to gain market-share by copying iTunes. Right now DT is just iTunes lite with support for more devices (and support for more devices is valuable, and I support that), but it's a shame it's interface is just an iTunes copycat, because they could attempt to surpass iTunes. Thats the kind of innovation developers should strive for.

[ungraphic]

Mozilla Firefox did not copy IE, they created a better browser, which I believe is why it is popular.

Great, now that thats established. DoubleTwist is also a better media management application.

logic - 1
jptelthorst - 0

[jptelthorst]

Great, now that thats established. DoubleTwist is also a better media management application.

logic - 1
jptelthorst - 0


Great point, as long as you make an assertion, that must mean it is: 1) logical 2) true. Sarcasm aside, why don't you try reading what I wrote, and thinking about it, and then perhaps posting a thoughtful reply?

[macshill]

It's pretty weak that they couldn't come up with their own design.

I'm going to remember that when the iPod Touch announces OLED screens. :rolleyes:

[b0ned0me]

Vender Lock-In is a Common term used by the Linux free software brigade when they don't like something, it's not a widely used term.
Really? I seem to remember it floating around a lot back when I did my internship with Sun Microsystems in the mid-nineties. Interesting to know that despite e.g. charging $120 for a floppy drive they had already been borged into the Linux collective only a few months after 1.0 was released.

[EssentialParado]

I'm going to remember that when the iPod Touch announces OLED screens. :rolleyes:

I think that would count more as a technology improvement, rather than a design choice. It would be like saying IBM copied Apple for upgrading to color screens.