New iPod Details

[blybug]

...some people in this forum are saying 'my music collections up to 20,30,40GB I can't wait for the 60GB to be released'.
Am I missing the point or something? I thought a big part of the iPod's sucess was it's partnership with iTunes & iTMS. I organise all my music in iTunes and then plan, once my iPod mini in (blue or silver please Santa), arrives to transfer 4 GB at a time the idea of wandering around with 15,000 songs to organise on a tiny screen seems a chore.
How do present owners use theirs? Are that many of you transporting your pitures files etc. aswell?

You'll understand, once you have your mini...you can dial from Alien Ant Farm to ZZ Top with your thumb in a matter of seconds...or stop anywhere inbetween...the scrolling speed actually accelerates as you whiz it around. Far from a chore, managing my 6000 songs is such a simple task on the iPod I sometimes get almost frustrated with iTunes which, fantastic as it is, lags in some respects.

Want to lay any bets that a few weeks after you have your mini you'll be wanting a big iPod so you can take all your music with you? There's something very powerful abut setting all of your songs on shuffle, not just the subset you happen to have with you today...

When I bought my iPod a year ago I had 2000 songs. Now I have 6000, many of them songs I would otherwise never have listened to again (collecting dust in the CD cabinet) or otherwise bought (thanks iTunes Music Store). You'll understand, once you have an iPod. :)

[picklescott]

i need to buy a laptop (cram & jam deal) thursday. according to the rules, the iPod and iBook (or powerbook) must be on the same invoice...

are you guys saying that the iPod will be announced officially monday (tomorrow - 18 july) or monday (next week - 26 july)?

tomorrow... tomorroooowwww... pleeeaaasseee tomorrroowww!!!

[mpw]

[QUOTE=blybug]You'll understand, once you have your mini...you can dial from Alien Ant Farm to ZZ Top with your thumb in a matter of seconds...or stop anywhere inbetween...[\QUOTE]

...this won't happen for two very good reasons.
1) Alien Ant Farm
2) ZZ Top
Neither will EVER be on any iPod I ever own. :)

[reyesmac]

I see many descriptions saying that the new iPods are reduced in price. I don't know about you, but I expect the low end model to always be replaced by the previous more expensive model. Its just a speed bump, it will be more clear when they release the 60gig at the regular old price of $499. If Apple would have included the dock and remote for $100 less then it would be a price cut. Don't get me wrong, the new models are very nice, but its just a speed bump, not a real price reduction. It just does not look that way because there is not a 3rd $499 model being sold just yet. Pretty sneaky marketing move.

[MacEyeDoc]

...some people in this forum are saying 'my music collections up to 20,30,40GB I can't wait for the 60GB to be released'.
Am I missing the point or something? I thought a big part of the iPod's sucess was it's partnership with iTunes & iTMS. I organise all my music in iTunes and then plan, once my iPod mini in (blue or silver please Santa), arrives to transfer 4 GB at a time the idea of wandering around with 15,000 songs to organise on a tiny screen seems a chore.
How do present owners use theirs? Are that many of you transporting your pitures files etc. aswell?

Well, I have over 20 GB of music on my laptop, and it was so nice (when I had LESS than 20GB) to just plug in the iPod once a week or so and let the autosync happen effortlessly. Now that I have more than 20 GB, I have to turn off the autosync (because I always get a message saying there isn't enough space to copy etc, etc) and manually mount and dismount, remove some music to add different music, and so what happens is that I never have any idea if what I have on iTunes is what I have on the iPod. That's why I would never get a mini, and I'm looking at the new 40GB. I was going to get the 60GB, but Apple's not saying anything about them - yet.

[joeboy_45101]

Apple is probably going to continue to make a 15Gb iPod maybe even a 10Gb one. But they are not going to sell it, that's Hewlett Packard's job now. I can see the hPod being one step behind Apple's current model. Sort of like how the iBook G4 is one step behind the PowerBook G4. The new pricing found in the NewsWeek articles may give us a clue into the pricing of the hPod. I wonder how it will play in the same ballpark as the mini and the wideback, could this mean that the mini will be seeing a price reduction soon. Maybe we will see; iPod Mini -> $199, hPod -> $249, and iPod -> $299. Well, a man can dream can't he. ;)

[.Andy]

It is a little of an underwhelming update but I had my heart set on getting this one - the clickwheel will be nice, the upgrade in size will be great for the price, and the battery life is a fantastic step in the right direction. I would have liked an added AM/FM radio but hey.......

I was a little shocked at the grey scrollwheel but I'm sure it will look great in person. I think the grey will be nice and subtle and match in perfectly with the styling on the headphones. I really do hope the buttons on the clickwheel are illuminated like the moc (although I suppose it is really unnecessary as they look like they might be embossed).

And I am with everyone who thinks that Apple should be able to extend the battery life on older gen ipods with a software update. Seems like something Apple would do if it were possible.

Can't wait until the release here (Tuesday in Australia :))

[whenpaulsparks]

a millimeter thinner? thats cool and all, but the 40GB 3rd Gen was already thicker than the 20 and 15, and quite noticably at that. it was a few millimeters thicker. i'm guessing the 60GB will be that thick as well, but does that mean they found a way to make them all the same size and smaller, or the 40GB is just a millimeter thinner?

[mpw]

I really do hope the buttons on the clickwheel are illuminated like the moc (although I suppose it is really unnecessary as they look like they might be embossed).


Just a little thing with no practical purpose or reason other I like the idea.

IF the buttons are back-lit it would've been cool if instead of 'menu' there was a glowing apple logo.

[rock6079]

Oh...Don't make me mad now. First of all, most Canadians are quite gifted at math. Almost half have completed Math 10 in Grade 9. Don't take a small sample, and blow it out of proportion.

And second of all, it's "eh", not "ay". Get it right the first time!!

i second that.... go leafs :)hhaha

[blybug]

...this won't happen for two very good reasons.
1) Alien Ant Farm
2) ZZ Top
Neither will EVER be on any iPod I ever own. :)

It's funny you would say that, because it's exactly the freedom that 40GB gives you that allows you to have virtually any and all kinds of music all the time. Guilty pleasures from a one-hit wonder (thanks again iTMS...99 cents to Alien Ant Farm!). Or a bunch of songs that seemed cool 15 years ago on a CD you'd never again listen to (ZZ Top Eliminator) but when they pop up one at a time in a shuffle they are tolerable and indeed enjoyable again! But, to each his own 40gigs.

You never know what will end up on your iPod. Not that you probably care too much but here's what's on mine (http://www.bly.cc/zkeiths_songs_(all).html). Like I said, 2/3 of this I either didn't own or hadn't cared to rip from CD...until I had an iPod. Now how could I pick 4GB a day out of that to take along?? I want it all!!

[blybug]

Well, I have over 20 GB of music on my laptop, and it was so nice (when I had LESS than 20GB) to just plug in the iPod once a week or so and let the autosync happen effortlessly. Now that I have more than 20 GB, I have to turn off the autosync (because I always get a message saying there isn't enough space to copy etc, etc) and manually mount and dismount, remove some music to add different music

Why not make a smart playlist that selects a subset of your library at random an limits itself to 20GB? Or any other criteria based on your ratings, last time played, new additions, etc. Call it "iPod Playlist" and set the iPod to autosync only that playlist. Then you can go back to the effortless autosync. Would be a little easier than what you are doing now...at least until you get the 60gigger!! :)

[awesomebase]

Anybody know if they're going to include the dock and remote with the 20gb 4th gen model? There was no mention of that in the article. I would sure like that to be true. I don't care about the storage so much because anything above the 5gb level is more than enough for me. But I would like to have the remote for sure.

[notmenotyou]

Unfortunately, consumers are idiots. If they read that Sony has an MP3 player with a ton of features and find out that the iPod has almost nothing new, bad things will happen. The simplistic stratedgy that Apple likes to use is hard to justify in a market as volitile and ferocious as this one.

THOUGH. I've heard some word circulating about voice-activation on the new iPods. "play mr roboto" and voila... I don't know if this is true or not and it would mean there's a built-in microphone... which seems... iffy.

Regardless, tomorrow, I will own my very first iPod.

-Clive at Five

can you please tell me what features are on the Sony MP3 player?

[picklescott]

Anybody know if they're going to include the dock and remote with the 20gb 4th gen model?

are you guys saying that the iPod will be announced officially monday (tomorrow - 18 july) or monday (next week - 26 july)?

[mrwilly123]

picklescott, you are lazy.

i will answer you anyhow
no one knows the answer to the first question

and they will most likely be announced tomorrow, since the newsweek will go on stands tomorrow, and how the hell could apple let this be on the front page of msnbc for more than a day without an official announcement?

[dynamiterave23]

I would say that the 20GB will include the dock and stuff.

[smurfsgonewild]

I've never played with an ipodmini so I have no clue how it feels. I loved the 3rd Gen ipod's wheel but I'm unsure on how the new click wheel works. Could somebody elaborate on it for me. Thanks in advance.

[Jackal05]

Is that picture on MSNBC's site the actual thing?

[dynamiterave23]

Is that picture on MSNBC's site the actual thing?

Yes sir.

[Stewie]

Other than a Apple store, where can one pick up a 4G tomorrow? Does it have to be bought through an e-tailer site or the Apple web store to get one right away?

I doubt you will be able to pick up a 4G tomorrow. Can any one remember the last time Apple introduced a new product and had it available the same day?

[greenstork]

Or maybe it was just wishful thinking on his part and/or "50% increase" is a kind of dumb way of saying "twice the current amount"

Actually, twice the current amount would be a 100% increase ;)

[Dr. Pookey]

Well, I'm just wondering exactly what time this will be released on the Apple website...

[dynamiterave23]

No kidding. I want to know too. I bet the things go fast.

[ultrafiel]

Guess I'm wrong about the headphones. Disregard whatever I posted.

[LaMerVipere]

Hey, if you noticed it looks like the headphone jack has changed since the third generation. It looks more standard now, at least from what I can see from the Newsweek article. Below are the differences. I thought the 3G jack was quite strange when a freind let me borrow their iPod. Well, whatever... I still would only use an iPod in my car if I had one... can't think about it now, I spent $3000 for a G5. (This image won't be there forever.)

http://www.ludlowroots.com/newimages/ipodHeadphone.jpg

No, that's nothing new. I have just my headphones plugged into my iPod right now and always have. You only need the 2 plugs if you need additional uses out of the plug, like using a remote, iTrip, etc...

[mrwilly123]

Hey, if you noticed it looks like the headphone jack has changed since the third generation. It looks more standard now, at least from what I can see from the Newsweek article. Below are the differences. I thought the 3G jack was quite strange when a freind let me borrow their iPod. Well, whatever... I still would only use an iPod in my car if I had one... can't think about it now, I spent $3000 for a G5. (This image won't be there forever.)

http://www.ludlowroots.com/newimages/ipodHeadphone.jpg

you might want to remove that post...because nothing is different, the above poster is right, and you might end up confusing people at first, like myself (im really dumb)

[Yvan256]

About the iPod. I'm actully thinking of getting one, instead of an iRiver. Almost everyone here is convinced that the iPods sound good, so maybe I will take thier opinions onboard, and forget the opinions of everyone with good hearing, and just get a vastly inferior iPod.

Well, if you'd rather listen to "everyone with good hearing" instead of us, go ahead it's your choice.

I just hope "everyone with good hearing" isn't the same bunch of idiots who are buying gold-plated DIGITAL cables so they won't hear "background noise"... Or that moron who said that "while Apple Lossless sounds a lot better than MP3 or AAC, the real CD still sounds better". :rolleyes:

You're the first person I ever heard to complain about the audio quality of the iPods. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I wish you'll buy the iRiver and stop coming here to bash the iPod based on rumors you heard from "everyone". ;)

The iRiver is supposed to be really good, has support for OGG, etc. Go for it!
:D

[FuzzyBallz]

And still no On/Off switch.

Tighter packed components + less breathing room for HD + more head = dea iPods. I can hear the moans and groans of dead iPod owners already.

So what's the innovation of this supposed 4G iPod again?

[winmacguy]

to everybody out there who complains about the iPod battery life ONLY being "around" 8 hours, try getting a lap top to last that long between charges....
You cant compare an iPod battery life where the battery power is used to access songs on a hard drive against a flash based MP3 player. I do have to say that the claimed 12 hours of battery life sounds great. And in response to all the comments I have seen regarding the lack of change in design and "only" $100 reduction in price, in terms of design it is often better just to tweak a fantastic design than to re invent the wheel. And for price reduction, why reduce the price when most of the competition are the same price or more when you still have trouble getting enough supply to meet demand.

Good to see Apple trying different ways for promoting its up and coming products before they hit the shelf to create a bit of that pent up buying frenzy. Especially before Microsoft gets its act into gear.

[homerjward]

i havent had time to get thru 12 pages but all the posts ive seen have been about the features but yall are forgetting one of the things that makes the ipod great. the thing is freakin ugly!! i mean look at it-the wheel is a different color, and not exactly a tasteful one. it looks like a colorware job. and are the buttons on a click wheel backlit? that's a real question, not rhetorical, cause i dont know. if theyre not then that's another bad thing. im all in favor of a click wheel, even tho i love my 3g 15gb (only 325 songs, but 5.33gb cause i use lossless) but not if it makes the thing so hideous. i know, i know, form follows function and such truck, but this thing's uglier than that philips ripoff! i could use the battery life, but im sure all the other changes will be in a firmware update. boycott the 4g ipod!!!!!!!!!!

[homerjward]

[QUOTE=winmacguy in terms of design it is often better just to tweak a fantastic design than to re invent the wheel.[/QUOTE]

umm...they did re-invent the wheel, sort of

[g.money]

I hate when companies use percentages to explain bumps in performance. ooooooh a 50% jump in performance. I know lots of people will look at that and say wow, must be 16 hours of battery (and then, of course, they'll read it again, like I did, and realize they're idiots) :( ... some of us in the world just hate math. I'm on the list, anyone else?

You must be joking. 50% is about as basic as you can get.

you must know what 50% is. 50% of 100 = 50 therefore a 50% jump in a 100 hour battery would be 100 plus that 50 (the 50%jump) equals 150. So a 50% jump in an 8 hour battery would be 8+(50% of 8, or 4)=12

50% is easy, and it's an even whole number your working with, 8. How pathetic is Canada looking, Ay?

Boy, do I ever love when I make self-deprecating comments--all in the name of good humour--and someone then turns around and slams my country of birth. Classy, real classy.

<sarcasm>A friendly Canadian thank you to all those out there who took the time to explain the fundamentals of arithmetic to poor little lumberjack boy over here (tear) </sarcasm>

Fret not "croooow", that little "ay" crack at the end made me smile, although I assume for reasons unintended--hint: don't make fun of someone's intelligence--check that, a nation's intelligence--without first running spell check on foreign colloquialisms.

But hey, I'm willing to let it slide. Gotta keep up the friendly Canadian stereotype, right? ... back to the ol' igloo I go!

[SpamJunkie]

the thing is freakin ugly!

Your eyes are on backward. It's the best looking iPod yet.

[dguisinger]

To some people who mentioned consumers don't know the difference between some things, unfortunately that is true. I know I own (and never use) one of the original Sony memory stick players from about 3 years ago. I'll admit it was a great player, but it has the same downfall all of their players still have: THEY AREN'T MP3 PLAYERS.

Thats right. They are ATRAC. Their software that they provide to upload songs into the player convers the songs to ATRAC. So unless you are encoding directly off the CD, the music begins to degrade pretty quickly.

Sony is so caught up in the "Not invented here" thing that their products do and will continue to suck unless they change their attitude.

Unfortunately, most consumers won't understand this before hand; although I bet once people start buying Sony's players more that this truth will spread and Sony will either lose their position in portable audio that they claim sold "20 million units of the walkman brand" or they will finally change this practice.

Atleast the iPod doesn't force you to convert your library to AAC. Although it would be nice if they added WMA support for good measure to the people who may have music in WMA format.

Now I have a question for everyone else.... Sony claims the Walkman brand has been so popular and that is what they are riding on. Is it just me, or does Walkman sound old and outdated... I hear walkman and think cassette tapes. If I knew little about technology, but had the choice between the other digital players and Sony's new HD Walkman, I think Sony would be at the bottom of my list. I think thats a marketting blunder. Its like bringing back the IBM XT brand name or the Apple Macintosh Quadra. Anyone familiar with the super old version of the product will not be interested in buying. Atleast the Apple iPod has a new and different name over Sony Walkman.

[LaMerVipere]

Boy, do I ever love when I make self-deprecating comments--all in the name of good humour--and someone then turns around and slams my country of birth. Classy, real classy.

<sarcasm>A friendly Canadian thank you to all those out there who took the time to explain the fundamentals of arithmetic to poor little lumberjack boy over here (tear) </sarcasm>

Fret not "croooow", that little "ay" crack at the end made me smile, although I assume for reasons unintended--hint: don't make fun of someone's intelligence--check that, a nation's intelligence--without first running spell check on foreign colloquialisms.

But hey, I'm willing to let it slide. Gotta keep up the friendly Canadian stereotype, right? ... back to the ol' igloo I go!

LOL

I HEART CANADIANS.

[laurawallace799]

I bet the 60gig will come out in Paris, seeing as how Toshiba leaked that apple wants 350,000 a month.

i hope so. maybe the 60GB will be a Video iPod. (http://www.methodshop.com/mp3/articles/videoipod/index.stm) :)

when do you think the 60 will come out? Christmas, or in 2005?

.

[spaceballl]

thought we were gonna get 802.11b...

[PDubNYC]

personally, I am glad they changed the button setup. I have a 5GB model from just a few weeks after the iPod was introduced, and I love it. I love the fact that the wheel actually turns. I can zip through my song list very quickly as the wheel keeps on spinnning when I really give it a ride. I like the buttons around the points of the compass. I know this new one will not have a spinning wheel, but I really like the button config. For the first time I am thinking of upgrading, mainly because of HD size. If I could put a 40GB drive (reasonably) into my 1G, I would keep it forever.

The one feature I would really like to see is an FM transmitter (sorry if that is illegal in the UK). I do not want it to talk to Airport Express, I don't see the point, just broadcast straight to the receiver, wherever you are, and that would be beautiful.

overall, I am pleased with even these slight upgrades.

so, that's my opinion on the matter, :-)

[jbembe]

Atleast the iPod doesn't force you to convert your library to AAC. Although it would be nice if they added WMA support for good measure to the people who may have music in WMA format.



Didn't the last iTunes update include the capability to convert WMA to AAC!??

[jbembe]

The one feature I would really like to see is an FM transmitter (sorry if that is illegal in the UK). I do not want it to talk to Airport Express, I don't see the point, just broadcast straight to the receiver, wherever you are, and that would be beautiful.

In my experience, FM Transmitters do a horrible job of getting quality sound out of the output. I recently figured out how to plug the iPod into the disc changer port in the car stereo and it is dramatically better than trying to use FM transmitters. The Airport will read the sound file itself instead of a converted FM signal, which will then transmit the sound with perfect clarity from the output. This is much better!

[Jalexster]

Well, if you'd rather listen to "everyone with good hearing" instead of us, go ahead it's your choice.

I just hope "everyone with good hearing" isn't the same bunch of idiots who are buying gold-plated DIGITAL cables so they won't hear "background noise"... Or that moron who said that "while Apple Lossless sounds a lot better than MP3 or AAC, the real CD still sounds better". :rolleyes:

You're the first person I ever heard to complain about the audio quality of the iPods. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I wish you'll buy the iRiver and stop coming here to bash the iPod based on rumors you heard from "everyone". ;)

The iRiver is supposed to be really good, has support for OGG, etc. Go for it!
:D

I would like an iRiver, but I'm not kidding about the iPod. I'm honestly thinking of getting an iPod. But I'm not going to get one quietly. I'll keep insulting the iPod until I get one.

For those who haven't seen an iRiver, here is some images:
H320 (Colour HDD Player) http://www.iriver.com/images/product/4(500).jpg
H140 (HDD Player) http://www.iriver.com/images/product/IHP140-2.jpg
(I decided not to actully post them in my post, so that people with low-bandwidth don't have to download these images)

[syclone]

This update may not be huge, but its got me sold. I'm going to London to study abroad for next year and there is no way I can bring my CD collection with me. I'd put it on my AlBook, but I only have 2GB left on my drive. I could have bought a 3G, but for me the battery life is about an hour or two too short. I was going to buy an external firewire drive, but I figure for what I can sell my 10GB for (well if i get it fixed - the HD crashed - still under warranty though), getting a 40GB won't be too bad of a deal. I just hope that scroll wheel looks better in real life - I'm not even convinced its grey yet. It could be white or even aluminum - the lighting in the pics I've seen is pretty bad.

Now after sorting through 12 pages of posts there I three things I feel a strong need to get out:

1) Although everybody here seems to think that iPod's audio quality is fine, I have to disagree. I haven't heard many other mp3's players, though so it may be the best of the crop. Still, I'm a bit of a freak about my stereo equipment, and I really think the quality could be vastly improved. As far as listening to on the go though, its fine.

2) ATRAC may sound alright, but its still a Sony-only format. Maybe its just me, but I like to share the music I rip, so its mp3, or AAC for me. Much like as cool as the new T1 digital camera is, it still uses expensive Memory Sticks that nobody else does.

3) FOR EVERYBODY COMPLAINING ABOUT THE LACK OF FEATURES - iPODS RUN LINUX! GO HERE: http://ipodlinux.sourceforge.net These guys have already gotten new games and .JPEG image support on the thing, and have early versions of support for weird codecs like ogg vorbis. If you are a developer please help with this project, because right now the possibilities are looking pretty phenomenal.

-End of Rant-

[dguisinger]

Didn't the last iTunes update include the capability to convert WMA to AAC!??

Oops, you are right, my mistake. But that is a Windows version only.

[PDubNYC]

In my experience, FM Transmitters do a horrible job of getting quality sound out of the output. I recently figured out how to plug the iPod into the disc changer port in the car stereo and it is dramatically better than trying to use FM transmitters. The Airport will read the sound file itself instead of a converted FM signal, which will then transmit the sound with perfect clarity from the output. This is much better!

this is why I have my computers networked and connected to my receiver. At home, I don't play my music from my iPod. I play it straight from one of my computers. Personally, I would get far more use out of a built-in transmitter, even if the quality is not as good. I have an iTrip and an iRock, and strangely enough (based on other's opinions that I have read) I hate, and don't use the iTrip, and much prefer the iRock. Maybe living in NYC somehow interferes with the iTrip too much for my taste. But I use the iRock ALL the time when visiting other people's homes for the weekend, or in the rental car on the way there. With a decent receiver, I have had it work from 50-60 feet away, even through walls and floors. So I guess a built-in FM transmitter would be my one selfish wish.

Seems as though I am in the minority, so I am not counting on seeing this feature any time soon. :-D

[aswitcher]

Some of the new features seem to be software specific. If so??? why wont we see a patch/upgrade for our 3g pods?

[ChrisH3677]

i hope so. maybe the 60GB will be a Video iPod. (http://www.methodshop.com/mp3/articles/videoipod/index.stm) :)

when do you think the 60 will come out? Christmas, or in 2005?

.

Tomorrow I reckon Steve will announce the 60. And delivery before xmas. Maybe even October.

[reorx]

I'm still convinced that the iPod's audio quality sucks. You need some good headphones to tell the difference though. Sony Nudes are a good choice.


I'm not convinced you're right at all... My 3G iPod drives both my Grado SR 80s and Alessandro MS1s just fine... Are you using MP3 or AAC encoding to test this theory out? :confused:

[Duff-Man]

Some of the new features seem to be software specific. If so??? why wont we see a patch/upgrade for our 3g pods?Duff-Man says...who says we won't? I thought one of the articles mentioned that their *would* be an update for other pods firmware....oh yeah!

[ChrisH3677]

(I decided not to actully post them in my post, so that people with low-bandwidth don't have to download these images)

Holy **** that thing's ugly!! Scary really. No wonder you didn't want to post it's pic here. Those who didn't have to see it, thank you. But you could of at least put one of those "some viewers may find this image disturbing" warnings on it!

The iPod in its simplicity is a thing of beauty. Just like my Powerbook compared to PC laptops. No one else seems to understand design. Apple's design is almost always simple and easy on the eye.

[puckhead193]

that's kool, better battery life is good, i'm not a big fan of the click wheel, i like the red LED's on mine. The college offer thing is still good until sept. right... and they say there coming out in a week... looks like i'm gonna wait to buy my powerbook, now i just have to decide 20 or 40.

[SiliconAddict]

As long as Apple makes the best digital player, they won't end up a has been.

You mean like how Apple is leading sales in PC's right? :rolleyes:

You don't have to make crap hardware to lose a market.

[notmenotyou]

this is why I have my computers networked and connected to my receiver. At home, I don't play my music from my iPod. I play it straight from one of my computers. Personally, I would get far more use out of a built-in transmitter, even if the quality is not as good. I have an iTrip and an iRock, and strangely enough (based on other's opinions that I have read) I hate, and don't use the iTrip, and much prefer the iRock. Maybe living in NYC somehow interferes with the iTrip too much for my taste. But I use the iRock ALL the time when visiting other people's homes for the weekend, or in the rental car on the way there. With a decent receiver, I have had it work from 50-60 feet away, even through walls and floors. So I guess a built-in FM transmitter would be my one selfish wish.

Seems as though I am in the minority, so I am not counting on seeing this feature any time soon. :-D

i think you have better luck then i do, cos i throw out both iRock and iTrip long long time ago because of the lousy sound quality, at the end, i bought a car stereo with line input and a mini jack to mini jack cable, and now i am a very happy iPod ower!!! :D

btw, i am also live in NYC

[jeffgarden]

No they can't. It charges, but I won't mount or play through the line out. The inMotion made different, and that does work fine with both.

wow then i must be really special then. because i have 1 dock hooked up to my emac and i use it to sync/charge my mini and 3rd gen ipods. and i also have the Altec Lansing speaker/dock thing and both work fine on that

[PDubNYC]

i think you have better luck then i do, cos i throw out both iRock and iTrip long long time ago because of the lousy sound quality, at the end, i bought a car stereo with line input and a mini jack to mini jack cable, and now i am a very happy iPod ower!!! :D

btw, i am also live in NYC

line-in is definitely the way to go, if you own a car. You lucky f*cker! :-D I had to sell mine when I moved from Brooklyn to Manhattan, just not worth the trouble or expense for the amount of use I got out of it.

But I love it when my friends and I have had a few cocktails, and jump in a cab and I have the driver tune the radio so I can play my tunes, even if my drunken favorite is the Ghetto Boys, "My Mind is Playing Tricks on Me" haha. take care

[winmacguy]

[QUOTE=winmacguy in terms of design it is often better just to tweak a fantastic design than to re invent the wheel.

umm...they did re-invent the wheel, sort of[/QUOTE]

Well they did with the 1st Gen iPod but with the 4th Gen iPod they have just tweaked an already great design ;)

[JFreak]

FM/AM Tuner. As weird as it seems, some of us like to listen to the radio.

radio is currently analog technology, and the ipod may not have analog-to-digital comverter inside. implementing radio apple should put in extra parts (perhaps the converter, plus certainly the tuner), which doesn't fit into the "we want smaller" woes and certainly doesn't fit into the all-digital-lifestyle that the ipod stands for.

ipod will stay all-digital, there will not be a radio and there will not be a mic input.

[sethypoo]

This certainly is a new and different way for Apple to introduce a new product. I think integrating the new click wheel idea is a good one; I haven't yet held an iPod mini, but I hear they're the bomb. Go Apple!

[sethypoo]

ipod will stay all-digital, there will not be a radio and there will not be a mic input.

I think that there will eventually be a mic input. It makes sense, look at the Belkin Voice Recorder, or the Belkin iPod microphone adapter. Wouldn't a mic-in port be digital, since what one would record would be digitally encoded on to the iPod hard drive? I think Apple, or one of their many engineers, could come up with a way to get a analog to digital converter in there.

[louden]

I think Apple needs to release these right away - they're more appealing visually, they've got more disk space, better battery life - and cheaper. No one will buy a 3G compared to a 4G. The cat's out of the bag, and now they need to be at the store.

I can't see the stores not having these things tomorrow. Otherwise, sales of the existing models will dry up - completely.

[dguisinger]

radio is currently analog technology, and the ipod may not have analog-to-digital comverter inside. implementing radio apple should put in extra parts (perhaps the converter, plus certainly the tuner), which doesn't fit into the "we want smaller" woes and certainly doesn't fit into the all-digital-lifestyle that the ipod stands for.

ipod will stay all-digital, there will not be a radio and there will not be a mic input.

Ummm, the Analog to Digital chip is already in the iPod. All they would need is a tuner, and they make those so small Timex has put them in a watch. If it wasn't for the AD converter you wouldn't have the Belkin mic adapter. And yes its in the iPod, because at one point it was leaked how to get to it in a previous generation, and if I'm not mistaken people were able to record by talking into the headphones (which if you were into electronics you know a speaker can work as a mic in reverse, although not as well as a mic does). Apple could easily make it switch signal sources when using a mic or using the radio, and use just a single D/A converter.

[red_wedge]

radio is currently analog technology, and the ipod may not have analog-to-digital comverter inside. implementing radio apple should put in extra parts (perhaps the converter, plus certainly the tuner), which doesn't fit into the "we want smaller" woes and certainly doesn't fit into the all-digital-lifestyle that the ipod stands for.

ipod will stay all-digital, there will not be a radio and there will not be a mic input.

My phone has a radio and a mic in it. It's smaller than an iPod. I really don't think this is an issue.

[JFreak]

You know, part of me is thinking that 3G will indeed be left out in the cold with new firmware. perhaps apple is just CALLING it 4G so that they won't have to support the 3G with the new firmware.

i think you think wrong. the whole "4G" is a pr thing, really, and it is technology inside which defines when the generation changes - not some marketing department...

if i remember correctly, the "1G/2G" ipods had v1.x firmware (first generation!) and the "3G" ipod and mini have a v2.x firmware (second generation!). i guess the new ipod will also have v2.x firmware, because nothing major has been said so far... and that's why i would find it very strange if apple somehow decided to put a v3.x firmware into the new ipod. it is much easier for apple to maintain one firmware generation at the time, and the mini ipods will not likely need a new firmware for a long time.

ipod firmware states the generation. if the new ipods will have a v2.x firmware, they too are second generation toys. remember the G4 cpu line? there are a gazillion of different G4 chip revisions out there, different speeds and different chip numbers. all G4:s though. and so are the ipods, too - the technology defines the generation, not marketing department.

(if i remember correctly, there was hardware changes in "3G" ipod which justified the new firmware. i think you cannot play apple lossless with firmware v1.x devices, and that's not a marketing department's decision. the first generation was just not capable enough.)

when we see a real third generation of ipods, apple will amaze us again. with something else than "a little smaller case, a little longer battery".

[Windowlicker]

No radio? Oh well. I guess I will just keep waiting until I fill my 15 giger. They should be up to the 5th or 6th generation by then.

what's up with all this crying after radio on iPod?! why would they put a radio receiver on them --- people would be listening to radio instead of buying the music from iTMS..

[JFreak]

I love the Chicago font! It's classic apple, i hope they never ditch it :)

i agree. chicago is very readable at small sizes, so it is just perfect for ipod and such. unless the display resolution dramatically increases, there's just not a better alternative.

[JFreak]

Just a little tip, in case you made the same mistake as some people: don't go and plug an iPod from the headphone jack to a stereo system. This is an *amplified headphones jack*, not a line-out jack. Of course, if you go from an amplified headphones output to a stereo line-in, the output will sound like crap (whatever your source/player).

you can get decent results when the headphone output levels are down.

[Windowlicker]

The one feature I would really like to see is an FM transmitter (sorry if that is illegal in the UK).

the problem here is that the UK isn't the only country where these transmitters are illegal. The whole Europe belongs to this area and I would think there are other countries that do as well.

No reason to make two products here.. especially when all these transmitters can be bought as addons. I still see the airport express could be integrated in future.

[JFreak]

Or that moron who said that "while Apple Lossless sounds a lot better than MP3 or AAC, the real CD still sounds better". :rolleyes:

that in fact is possible. and the other way, too.

if the apple lossless file would have been made out of original master files, then apple lossless would be a perfect copy. if the apple lossless file would have been made out of a cd (which is only a near-perfect copy due to possible errors during burning the production master cd) then the possible read errors of a near-perfect cd track would be transferred permanently into the apple lossless version.

now if we compare a cd track to the lossless file generated from master file, in theory, the lossless file would sound better, though it's debatable if the difference can be proved with a human hear. on the other hand, if we compare a cd track to the lossless file generated from the same cd, in theory, the lossless file would sound worse, though the same applies here as in previous case.

it's all about how the lossless file is made, in other words, closer to the source always sounds better.

BUT...

a lossless is a lossless is a lossless. is there a professional designer who says that TIFF image changes between multiple saves? take a JPEG (lossy) image and save it a thousand times, and you will see a difference. take a TIFF (lossless) image and do the same, and compare it to the original - bit by bit - and it has remained the same.

and the same goes to lossless audio. a lossless coding means lossless audio, in other words, even though the audio FILE becomes smaller, the audio WAVEFORM can be re-constructed 100% matching the original.

difference can be made happening, but it will not become from lossless coding, if the "apple lossless" is truly a lossless method. i have myself not yet proven this, so i have to trust that apple knows what it says.

[JFreak]

I think that there will eventually be a mic input. It makes sense, look at the Belkin Voice Recorder, or the Belkin iPod microphone adapter. Wouldn't a mic-in port be digital, since what one would record would be digitally encoded on to the iPod hard drive? I think Apple, or one of their many engineers, could come up with a way to get a analog to digital converter in there.

i hope not. it doesn't make sense for apple to kill 3rd party accessories.

and no, a mic-in would be analog. digital microphones exist, but they are very high-end and expensive, i guess for a long time too. a mic input would mean analog circuitry, an a-d conversion, and a digital encoding if the signal would not be stored in raw uncompressed format. is the ipod capable of encoding inside the thing? i would guess not. at least not yet. take a look how much aac encoding eats your computer's cpu and think about the ipod's processing power. i would guess the chip inside is a very specialized cpu (and not a general-purpose one like in computers) and that might only be able to decode files, which is by the way a lot easier cpu-cycle-wise.

i hope ipod will stay specialized device made for listening to music, and doing that one thing best in the market. i would hate it to become a microsoftish do-it-all-but-do-not-do-it-well kind of a device...

[JFreak]

people were able to record by talking into the headphones (which if you were into electronics you know a speaker can work as a mic in reverse, although not as well as a mic does). Apple could easily make it switch signal sources when using a mic or using the radio, and use just a single D/A converter.

yes, i know this, and believe me, have used my monitoring headphones as a talkback mic few times when my foh console was badly equipped ;) i'd say i'm quite much into electronics, but have not ripped an ipod apart to see what's in it and what's not. i'm just guessing, sosumi ;)

[JFreak]

My phone has a radio and a mic in it. It's smaller than an iPod. I really don't think this is an issue.

your phone also has an antenna built into it, which the ipod lacks ;) the real question here is "why would apple want to implement anything analog into the ipod which stands for all-digital lifestyle?"

[ethernet76]

i havent had time to get thru 12 pages but all the posts ive seen have been about the features but yall are forgetting one of the things that makes the ipod great. the thing is freakin ugly!! i mean look at it-the wheel is a different color, and not exactly a tasteful one. it looks like a colorware job. and are the buttons on a click wheel backlit? that's a real question, not rhetorical, cause i dont know. if theyre not then that's another bad thing. im all in favor of a click wheel, even tho i love my 3g 15gb (only 325 songs, but 5.33gb cause i use lossless) but not if it makes the thing so hideous. i know, i know, form follows function and such truck, but this thing's uglier than that philips ripoff! i could use the battery life, but im sure all the other changes will be in a firmware update. boycott the 4g ipod!!!!!!!!!!

What's the point in lossless? The digital to analog converter is decent at best thrown into a subpar headphone amp. And you probably have some 30 dollar pair of headphones attached to that.

Between my 192 files and the HD 497s I listen to, I'm probably getting better quality at one-tenth the storage.

As for the backlit buttons. My gen1 had no backlit buttons and i managed. You learn by feel. Hey, that's the left side, that's the track backwards button!

The clickwheel is far superior to the touch buttons because anyone who's had their hand and their ipod in the same jacket pocket knows just a slight touch sends the thing crazy. Besides, who wants their buttons at the top? This way you can just scroll, click. No moving your thumb between top and middle.

I've used both, and I think anyone will tell you they enjoy the feel of the gen 1, gen 2 more than the gen 3. Or maybe I'm the only one that misses the feel of the wheel actually moving under my thumb?

[zakee00]

that in fact is possible. and the other way, too.

if the apple lossless file would have been made out of original master files, then apple lossless would be a perfect copy. if the apple lossless file would have been made out of a cd (which is only a near-perfect copy due to possible errors during burning the production master cd) then the possible read errors of a near-perfect cd track would be transferred permanently into the apple lossless version.

now if we compare a cd track to the lossless file generated from master file, in theory, the lossless file would sound better, though it's debatable if the difference can be proved with a human hear. on the other hand, if we compare a cd track to the lossless file generated from the same cd, in theory, the lossless file would sound worse, though the same applies here as in previous case.

it's all about how the lossless file is made, in other words, closer to the source always sounds better.

BUT...

a lossless is a lossless is a lossless. is there a professional designer who says that TIFF image changes between multiple saves? take a JPEG (lossy) image and save it a thousand times, and you will see a difference. take a TIFF (lossless) image and do the same, and compare it to the original - bit by bit - and it has remained the same.

and the same goes to lossless audio. a lossless coding means lossless audio, in other words, even though the audio FILE becomes smaller, the audio WAVEFORM can be re-constructed 100% matching the original.

difference can be made happening, but it will not become from lossless coding, if the "apple lossless" is truly a lossless method. i have myself not yet proven this, so i have to trust that apple knows what it says.
thanks for that explanation, you are one of the smarter ones here....u from canada? ;) jk
i am going to buy a new 20gb from bestbuy asap (i have gift cirtificates there), this is an upgrade to a 1g 5gb :)
they look pretty nice

[ethernet76]

your phone also has an antenna built into it, which the ipod lacks ;) the real question here is "why would apple want to implement anything analog into the ipod which stands for all-digital lifestyle?"

I agree. The gameboy doesn't allow you to take pictures. Why don't you complain about that?

The iPod is for a specific purpose. Listening to music. If anyone buys an mp3 player based on whether it can do substandard recording, let them get the iRiver.

If it doesn't already have a microphone for some reason, adding one to record voice is stupid. Besides, who do you know that carries around a voice recorder. The only people I know are journalists.

[cb911]

cool. new iPods! :D and 1mm thinner!

well i just hope the next PowerBooks are 3mm thinner, back to the good 'ol 1" thin. :cool:

also the new wheel looks good, much simpler, and good to hear of the more efficient menus, can't wait to have a play with one. :)

[Dahl]

You mean like how Apple is leading sales in PC's right? :rolleyes:

You don't have to make crap hardware to lose a market.
Apple is leading the digital player field, only if they screw it up will they end up a has been.

[aptmunich]

your phone also has an antenna built into it, which the ipod lacks ;)

Actually most mobiles use the headphones as the antenna, which apple could do as well, but i agree that a crappy radio in an ipod would just seem cheapo!

[Sabenth]

What about a D.A.B Radio bulit in Digital Audio Band for those of you who dont know about it i have one and the signal is pure digital and more stations to choose from mind you we have it in the UK dont know about the rest of the world....

mind you dont think id be that fussed with radios in ipods as that would mean comercials not somthing i want thankyou very much

[adt]

What about a D.A.B Radio bulit in Digital Audio Band for those of you who dont know about it i have one and the signal is pure digital and more stations to choose from mind you we have it in the UK dont know about the rest of the world....

mind you dont think id be that fussed with radios in ipods as that would mean comercials not somthing i want thankyou very much


hey, there's this new thing called punctuation out now, you might care to give it a look. oh and also english.

[duklaprague]

i just bought a 3g iPod two months ago, and if this is the 4g then i don't feel too bad about missing out on much. its all a personal thing, but the different coloured wheel jarred a bit for me. and the buttons where they are are fine - they're all within the reach of my thumb, so no problem.

as for new features - i'm definitely in the *who needs video?* camp. worse still, album art - what on earth for? it sits in your pocket - you don't need to look at the art. if for no other reason than its a waste of battery life.

(but the *kids getting run over whilst watching videos* thing is a pretty lame argument - as in gameboys, or people sat at a bus stop, or on a bus - wherever.)

the feature that would be cool would have to be airtunes support. the iPod as a remote to play your entire collection wirelessly through your stereo. that has to be a killer app, surely?

and people have said why have such a big HD anyway - well, to me the whole thing with the iPod is the holy grail of walkmen in that you have your *entire* collection with you always - no faffing around selecting things.

as somebody mentioned earlier, its great for having those *guilty pleasure* tracks, that you would never own an entire cd of. someone was looking through my collection only yesterday :

*gary moore? WTF?*
*well, just the one track - *parisienne walkways*
*oh yeah - thats a good song*
*i know*

and generally listening to a far wider selection of my collection - eg older stuff - simply because its so much more accessible.

one thing that hasn't really been mentioned in this thread, is these *more efficient* menus tho'. in what way exactly? so from the first level menu we now have *music* instead of *browse* and *playlists*?

so presumably it goes :

*music* >
*artists*
*albums*
*playlists*
*etc*

so the only thing thats really changed is that *playlists* are two clicks away instead of one. which doesn't seem particularly more efficient.

i expect i'm missing something somewhere tho'?

Iain

[Damien]

First, Jalexster has been very mature and intelligent in his iPod criticism. Why is he not allowed to say what he doesn't like about the iPod, or why? Some of you are so pathetic in the way you're jumping on his for what he's saying, like he's making fun of your child or something. The only way products improve is by criticizing their faults. Every product - including the iPod - has faults. If somebody respects the iPod as a product, but doesn't like certain aspects of it, they should have every right to speak out about their concerns. I love my iPod, but there are absolutely things that need to be improved about it. It isn't perfect, and you people who are so scared about others saying bad things about it really need to get a life.

Now, for the people who call ideas like video on the iPod "stupid" - if you don't want it, or like the idea, great, but stop talking like you speak for everybody. You don't. Some of us would be interested in the idea. Some of us would be perfectly happy to watch video on the iPod's screen. Obviously it isn't as nice as watching something on TV, in a movie theater, whatever. Still, it would be a nice addition option of time-wasting material for those times that you need to waste some time. If YOU don't like it, YOU don't have to ask for it. If it was a case of ONLY having a full-colored screen video iPod, and people wouldn't have a choice, then you'd have the right to bitch. Until that day, shut up.

And please, God, stop with the pathetic "you'll be watching the screen and walk into something haha!" crap. So are you saying that we shouldn't have things like the GameBoy for the same reasons? People who bring up that example are the people who would be stupid enough to try to watch video while walking around. The rest of us, however, have enough of a brain not to do that. Not everybody lives in America where you ride around in your car all day long. Some people ride mass-transit to work. Some people fly on airplanes a lot. Some people spend a lot of time out of their house away from their computers, and end up finding themselves in situations where they have time that could be spent enjoying video or whatnot. If you want to argue against video on the iPod, think of REAL reasons it would be a bad idea, not moronic excuses.

First of all the critisms of the ipod made by the mentioned users are in fact incorrect. The sound qulity is great on the ipod and they use a much better companent for that than iriver. It is good to criterse but only when they are valid points such as price

Next, Reason against a video ipod


Price, The cost of making such a product would mean it will ve dam expensive
2. Video is not for on the move, If you at home you have the tv when your out the chances of watching a video are low and with such a small screen is not worth it
3. Really crap battery life and stoarge drain

[Finiksa]

hey, there's this new thing called punctuation out now, you might care to give it a look. oh and also english.
Werd! ;)

[amnesiac1984]

Look people, and I apologise because this has probably already been said if anybody else on this forums has an ounce of common sense (i'm not gonna read 14 pages of posts saying "ooh its really cool i want one"). This story was not leaked to newsweek, Jobs himself was interviewed and he had 4g iPod in his hand, how can he pissed off, it was his own doing?

[amnesiac1984]

hey, there's this new thing called punctuation out now, you might care to give it a look. oh and also english.

Is it really worth singling out this one post for its lack of punctuation? What has that achieved?

[svenas1]

First, Jalexster has been very mature and intelligent in his iPod criticism.

[...]

Now, for the people who call ideas like video on the iPod "stupid" - if you don't want it, or like the idea, great, but stop talking like you speak for everybody. You don't. Some of us would be interested in the idea. Some of us would be perfectly happy to watch video on the iPod's screen. Obviously it isn't as nice as watching something on TV, in a movie theater, whatever. Still, it would be a nice addition option of time-wasting material for those times that you need to waste some time. If YOU don't like it, YOU don't have to ask for it. If it was a case of ONLY having a full-colored screen video iPod, and people wouldn't have a choice, then you'd have the right to bitch. Until that day, shut up.

And please, God, stop with the pathetic "you'll be watching the screen and walk into something haha!" crap. So are you saying that we shouldn't have things like the GameBoy for the same reasons? People who bring up that example are the people who would be stupid enough to try to watch video while walking around. The rest of us, however, have enough of a brain not to do that. Not everybody lives in America where you ride around in your car all day long. Some people ride mass-transit to work. Some people fly on airplanes a lot. Some people spend a lot of time out of their house away from their computers, and end up finding themselves in situations where they have time that could be spent enjoying video or whatnot. If you want to argue against video on the iPod, think of REAL reasons it would be a bad idea, not moronic excuses.


The point is that listening to music is a background activity, whereas watching a movie is a foreground activity. Sorry if I annoyed you, but equally, some people who don't get this distinction are annoying (to me). C'est tout (to keep with the Canadian theme going on... ;-). Of course there are legitimate situations and reasons for wanting a video iPod. To me, the analysis goes like this:
• count the situations where it is perfectly ok and desirable to listen to music, then
• do the same for when watching a movie is ok and desirable
In my guestimate this relation will be about 20:1 or 50:1. Just a guess. Maybe your answer differs. Then let's talk about it.

By the way, I wouldn't say than wanting a video iPod was stupid. But I do argue that it is probably not worth it for Apple to make one. It hardly adds to the appeal of the iPod (in terms of benefits in usage - c.f. the fractions I gave), but I guess it would add a great deal of engineering efforts, which have to be payed for in the end. Then I have to admit that I don't know how high these costs would be. Maybe it is in fact very easy and cheap to add a avi / mpg decoder. Maybe adding a high quality colour screen doesn't increase the cost very much and has only little impact on battery life. Then the additional costs would be marginal. Does someone here know ? Insightful input welcome ;-)!

I can actually think of a few more arguments, why Apple won't add video. Simplicity of the device, foremost. One appeal of the iPod is that won't ever keep you from doing something more important. It's your companion, not your boss.

[neon]

just my 2 cents, short and sweet

i own a 3g. i think the new 4g looks fantastic. if a 60gb comes out i might sell my 20gb to my brother and upgrade... although despite preferring the way the click wheel looks, i'm so used to the 3g buttons (for weeks i would keep hitting the next track button instead of play/pause - until one day... it just seemed instictive :D ) that i wonder if i might miss them.

but anyway, i digress, they look damn sweet and i'm keen to see where the uk prices are at.

[Allon]

Let's see, decent battery life and a DRM ladened encoding method with crappy encoding rates (128kbps max) or reasonable battery life, the worlds best online music store, and oh yeah, it's Apple.

How long a battery life do you want? I've found the 10 hrs I get out of my Gen 2 iPod to be plenty for a cross country flight


Uh, yeah. You should like not post about technology you know nothing about. You just embarrass yourself. Not only is 128 not the maximum bitrate for Minidisc, there is no 128 bitrate.

The bitrates are
ATRAC (original): 292kbs
ATRAC3: 132kbs (LP2), 66 kbs (LP4)
ATRAC3+: 256kbs (Hi-SP) 64kbs (Hi-LP), 48kbs

LP2 (132kbs) is used for Sony's connect music store.

As for battery life, I average 24 hrs with good sound quality and frequent track changes. But the original poster was using last years NetMD's for his comparison, which really shouldn't be used. Using figures for Hi-MD makes the battery life comparison much more even. Another 6 hrs or so of battery life and I may be looking at a new iPod.

Actually, I was not referring to NetMD but to pre-NetMD MiniDisc, which I currently own.
Therefore, Trekkie, comments about quality compression whatsoever are irrelevant. I record directly from a CD-player's digital output, and my MiniDisc recordings sound excellent.
I know, using that you can't have all your music library with you, as with an iPod. That is indeed the reason I am seriously considering buying an iPod. I can't help but be disappointed, however, with how problematic this 'battery issue' is with the iPod. With my MiniDisc, I use a small thin replacable NiMH battery (at $ 15), which I can easily charge and take a spare with me. Additionally, I can attach a small single AA-battery in an external casing, to add another dozen or more hours of music playback.
You're right when you say that most of the times 12h must be enough for your trips. Nevertheless, I do not see the fun in having to add another routine to my life, which is having to unload bags, charge iPod every evening. Moreover, what if you're trekking, or whatever, and not near power charge opportunities?
I find it also hard to understand why Sony IS able to make a HDD-portable player (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/01/sony_hd_walkman/), with replacable battery and 20h playback time, and Apple isn't. Maybe it's due to Sony's better credentials as audio manufacturer. However, they insist on using their own ATRAC-encoding, which makes it less interesting.
Those are just considerations I take in mind. It's not peanuts what Apple charges us with, and I do not intend to buy a new player every year.

[svenas1]

I know, using that you can't have all your music library with you, as with an iPod. That is indeed the reason I am seriously considering buying an iPod. I can't help but be disappointed, however, with how problematic this 'battery issue' is with the iPod. With my MiniDisc, I use a small thin replacable NiMH battery (at $ 15), which I can easily charge and take a spare with me. Additionally, I can attach a small single AA-battery in an external casing, to add another dozen or more hours of music playback.
You're right when you say that most of the times 12h must be enough for your trips. Nevertheless, I do not see the fun in having to add another routine to my life, which is having to unload bags, charge iPod every evening. Moreover, what if you're trekking, or whatever, and not near power charge opportunities?


Going trekking is a valid argument. But I don't see why it should be more of a chore to recharge the iPod (which is dead easy - plop in dock), when you are willing to recharge your NiMHs. I actually prefer it the iPod way. I find it more of a hassle the way rechargeable batteries are used: take out of gadget, find recharger, plug in, put batteries in recharger. Next day, do the reverse. This is what I have to do for the digital camera. Compare with iPod: take out of pocket, place in dock. Done.

Maybe a superior way is how some digital cameras have docks, but retain removable batteries. So you can take a kilo of them on your long treks through the savannah, if needs be, or just buy more AAAs if you hit civilisation. Presto.

[ArticulatedArm]

The point is that listening to music is a background activity, whereas watching a movie is a foreground activity. Sorry if I annoyed you, but equally, some people who don't get this distinction are annoying (to me). C'est tout (to keep with the Canadian theme going on... ;-). Of course there are legitimate situations and reasons for wanting a video iPod. To me, the analysis goes like this:
• count the situations where it is perfectly ok and desirable to listen to music, then
• do the same for when watching a movie is ok and desirable
In my guestimate this relation will be about 20:1 or 50:1. Just a guess. Maybe your answer differs. Then let's talk about it.

By the way, I wouldn't say than wanting a video iPod was stupid. But I do argue that it is probably not worth it for Apple to make one. It hardly adds to the appeal of the iPod (in terms of benefits in usage - c.f. the fractions I gave), but I guess it would add a great deal of engineering efforts, which have to be payed for in the end. Then I have to admit that I don't know how high these costs would be. Maybe it is in fact very easy and cheap to add a avi / mpg decoder. Maybe adding a high quality colour screen doesn't increase the cost very much and has only little impact on battery life. Then the additional costs would be marginal. Does someone here know ? Insightful input welcome ;-)!

I can actually think of a few more arguments, why Apple won't add video. Simplicity of the device, foremost. One appeal of the iPod is that won't ever keep you from doing something more important. It's your companion, not your boss.


Don't think of it as a "video" pod.

Think of it as a "freedom" pod. Very American... like freedom fires...

The point is that people just want freedom.

You say that music is better for people on the go.. I agree... but what about when you are on the bus? why not watch an old Seinfeld episode? Or how about a videotaped lecture from one of you classes? or how about an Apple keynote?

Or maybe you don't want to watch a video.. you just want to look at some pictures. Or show someone some pictures.

It is all about freedom.

I just remember I heard this same kind of nonsense how it was ridiculous to think the G5 should be watercooled. People would say that was pure lunacy too.

An Apple video pod is coming... whether you or even Steve Jobs wants it... it is just a matter of when.

[irmongoose]

Allon: You refer to the external battery casing for your MD player which allows you to pop in additional AA batteries. Perhaps you didn't realize that there is such a gadget for the iPod called the Belkin Battery Pack (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=T6714LL/A). And since you're taking it on trekking, you don't need to worry about the extra few grams you have to carry along.



irmongoose

[yossele]

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore

[neon]

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore :D so it is!

[hob]

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore
Was just about to report the same thing...! NEW IPODDDDSSS!!

[JFreak]

US site is up, so don't get too excited ;)

[JFreak]

not yet, at least. wouldn't it be a tuesday's event to release new ipods?

[hob]

not yet, at least. wouldn't it be a tuesday's event to release new ipods?
Well, yes - that's what I was thinking, but rumors say monday and now with the UK store being down...

[klaus]

nope, it'll be today, us store is usually half an hour later than european stores.

Apple benelux confirmed that iPods were coming today, and that an announcement would follow later this afternoon.

source : http://www.tweakers.net (dutch site)

[Damien]

the US store has already been down earlyer. SOmetime they are down then come back up but the product is released later.

The UK store was down when the minis where released but didnt appear in the sotre for another few hours

[yossele]

http://homepage.mac.com/ykwadrat/.Public/ipod4g.jpg

[barnett25]

Don't think of it as a "video" pod.

Think of it as a "freedom" pod. Very American... like freedom fires...

The point is that people just want freedom.

You say that music is better for people on the go.. I agree... but what about when you are on the bus? why not watch an old Seinfeld episode? Or how about a videotaped lecture from one of you classes? or how about an Apple keynote?

Or maybe you don't want to watch a video.. you just want to look at some pictures. Or show someone some pictures.

It is all about freedom.

I just remember I heard this same kind of nonsense how it was ridiculous to think the G5 should be watercooled. People would say that was pure lunacy too.

An Apple video pod is coming... whether you or even Steve Jobs wants it... it is just a matter of when.
Freedom? Yeah, freedom for everyone to have to pay alot more for a feature I and most others would never use (except for the occassional, hey, look what I can do!). Sure, I would take a video iPod if it came out for $300 and had 12hrs battery life... but that isn't really possible right now is it? I think the iPod would loose it's appeal for me (and many other people) if they added video. I want a music player, not an overpriced player with some novelty features.

[Maxicek]

Evolutionary, not revolutionary.
But I wouldn't expect Apple to change the format too much, not with iPods shifting off the shelves like they are. Good news about the battery life, but I will be content with my 3G for a while yet.

[yossele]

Bij Apple Benelux kon men ons verder vertellen dat Apple rond halfdrie vandaag met een persbericht zou komen om het nieuws officieel bekend te maken.

That's in about 1 hour!!! :D

[tutubibi]

not yet, at least. wouldn't it be a tuesday's event to release new ipods?

US and Canada store is down now.

I am interested to see price in Canadian $ for new 20GB. If it is above 420 CAD, I would probably go for 3G 20G iPod (as a replacement for 10GB I have), hoping it should be available for 300+ CAD.

[elsmith_5812]

SO IT WAS ONLY A RUMOR BUT I FEEL SO SAD AND CHEATED THAT THERE ISNT A TWO INCH COLOR MONITER WITH A VIDEO OUT. SOMEONE SLAP ME AND HELLP ME TO REGAIN CONTROL

[ArticulatedArm]

Freedom? Yeah, freedom for everyone to have to pay alot more for a feature I and most others would never use (except for the occassional, hey, look what I can do!). Sure, I would take a video iPod if it came out for $300 and had 12hrs battery life... but that isn't really possible right now is it? I think the iPod would loose it's appeal for me (and many other people) if they added video. I want a music player, not an overpriced player with some novelty features.


You don't "have" to pay for anything.

You realize there were endless posters just like you saying there was no need for iPods with 30 or more Gigs, right...

Who says you won't have the option to still buy a music only iPod? You must be just arguing to argue.

I realize change can be very frightening for people... but come on.. get a grip man.

[ceartas]

The UK Apple store is also closed at present althought the US store is open and selling 3G iPods.

[iGary]

"US and Canada store is down now."

Yup, just noticed U.S. Store is down. :D

I do think the new pod is a bit sexier, but I've not even filled up half of my 3g 15, so why?

Very nice, though.

Yay for a big month of new releases.

[Allon]

Going trekking is a valid argument. But I don't see why it should be more of a chore to recharge the iPod (which is dead easy - plop in dock), when you are willing to recharge your NiMHs. I actually prefer it the iPod way. I find it more of a hassle the way rechargeable batteries are used: take out of gadget, find recharger, plug in, put batteries in recharger. Next day, do the reverse. This is what I have to do for the digital camera. Compare with iPod: take out of pocket, place in dock. Done.


But that's the exact point I'm trying to make: with NiMHs I do NOT have to recharge it all the time, because it lasts a multifold hours of playback time in comparison to the iPod.
Furthermore, I do not have to eject the battery from the MiniDisc device, the power charger can be attached directly to the MiniDisc portable. In that sense it isn't different from the iPod.

[JFreak]

finnish store down, too, so i guess this is it ;)

[aswitcher]

For what its worth, Australia down as well...

[rock6079]

just woke up and apple canada store is down. lefts hope its up b4 8:05 when i ahve to go !!

haha

[Allon]

Allon: You refer to the external battery casing for your MD player which allows you to pop in additional AA batteries. Perhaps you didn't realize that there is such a gadget for the iPod called the Belkin Battery Pack (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=T6714LL/A). And since you're taking it on trekking, you don't need to worry about the extra few grams you have to carry along.

I am actually aware of the existence of the Belkin battery pack. It doesn't make things easier, nevertheless. Why, e.g. isn't such an external battery casing included FREE OF CHARGE in the iPod box? (as it is with MiniDisc). I find $ 70 a ridiculous amount of money to pay for something that should have been included as standard content. And why do you need four AA batteries? (and immediately such a big bulk on the back of your pod)
I know, everything is possible if you just try hard enough. I nevertheless regret this lump-bump-difficulties I encounter about iPod&battery when I'm used to the very efficient power methods of MiniDisc.

[MacsRgr8]

For what its worth, Australia down as well...

Probably everywhere

[Hoopsup07]

It always says they will be back within the hour but it usually takes them about 3 hours.

[rock6079]

It always says they will be back within the hour but it usually takes them about 3 hours.

damn them

i wanna seeeee b4 i leave !!!

[G4-power]

Aplle Stores down. Nearly always the Finnish Apple Store is one of the first to go down (cool!), but also one of the lasts to get up again (bummer!). Can't wait for the 4G iPod!!! It'll be the first iPod I've ever owned, touched, or even seen live.
Hope they won't be like, "Ships worldwide in February 2005!!!"...

[croooow]

I just called 1-800-MY-APPLE and at 7:55am Eastern Time in the US the telesales team member said the store would be back up in about 10 mins with a new launch for the iPod. He said he couldn't tell me about any details.

[rock6079]

Aplle Stores down. Nearly always the Finnish Apple Store is one of the first to go down (cool!), but also one of the lasts to get up again (bummer!). Can't wait for the 4G iPod!!! It'll be the first iPod I've ever owned, touched, or even seen live.
Hope they won't be like, "Ships worldwide in February 2005!!!"...

lol

*impatiently waiting*

[Stewie]

SO IT WAS ONLY A RUMOR BUT I FEEL SO SAD AND CHEATED THAT THERE ISNT A TWO INCH COLOR MONITER WITH A VIDEO OUT. SOMEONE SLAP ME AND HELLP ME TO REGAIN CONTROL

for using all caps you deserve 2 slaps.

[iGary]

I really do think this will be available to ship immediately....

Let's see if I am wrong. :)

[whooleytoo]

Click Wheel !?

Ewe.

The greatest thing about the G3 iPods are the touch sensitive scrool wheel and buttons. They are so easy and not to mention inovative.... The click wheel is like playing with a Snapple cap....

Nice to see Apple dominating, but I like my g3 way better.

Different strokes I guess..

I don't care much for the 3G's buttons - I listen to my iPod in bed as I'm going asleep, but you can't feel for the buttons in the dark or you'll press them. And you can't leave the backlight on or it'll kill the battery in no time.

I haven't used the click-wheel yet, so I'll have to see if that works better (for me).

[millypede]

some how I dont you you will :P

middle of August ok for every one! :D

[centauratlas]

Apple needs to have a faster method of updating the store and/or not take the whole store down.

I don't see Amazon taking the store down to update it. As much as I love my Macs and iPods, one would think they'd be able to update it without pulling it down for an hour (which is what I generally see when they say an hour 1-1.5 hours). It just seems odd that they do it...the only possible reason I can see is to create buzz, but they don't create much.

[ArticulatedArm]

Apple needs to have a faster method of updating the store and/or not take the whole store down.

I don't see Amazon taking the store down to update it. As much as I love my Macs and iPods, one would think they'd be able to update it without pulling it down for an hour (which is what I generally see when they say an hour 1-1.5 hours). It just seems odd that they do it...the only possible reason I can see is to create buzz, but they don't create much.

I think you are right this is more about "showmanship" than anything else.

I think all these "mistakes" are a little too coincidental too... like the specs for the G5 being released, the picture off the cover yesterday. And on and on. All part of the show.

[millypede]

Im just glad they dont take the whole thing down , to update all the product pages. Do they update the whole site at the same time?

[Yvan256]

you can get decent results when the headphone output levels are down.

Well of course. But I was pointing that particular setup as a probable problem (if people then used the iPod's volume control instead of the stereo system).

[JFreak]

Apple needs to have a faster method of updating the store and/or not take the whole store down.

I don't see Amazon taking the store down to update it. As much as I love my Macs and iPods, one would think they'd be able to update it without pulling it down for an hour (which is what I generally see when they say an hour 1-1.5 hours). It just seems odd that they do it...the only possible reason I can see is to create buzz, but they don't create much.

apple has the most secure method of updating the store - sure, it could be done in such a way that apple put new images into the server and then just updated the pages when it would be the time. BUT... that would leave the door open for us to search for the images (which are usually named after plain english words) and thus opening the door for leaks.

apple now takes the store down, removes old images, inserts new images, tests it internally, and then opens the store when the user experience is what it is supposed to be.

i have nothing to complain about this.

[aussiemac86]

Also if they didnt take down the store for so long we wouldnt be able to have these franticly growing threads whilst everyone gets in a bit of last minute speculation..... Would take away all of our fun :p

[croooow]

Can't wait for the 4G iPod!!! It'll be the first iPod I've ever owned, touched, or even seen live.

They don't have them in stores where you are?

[neon]

wheeeee... who's impatient? *raises hand*

[Yvan256]

that in fact is possible. and the other way, too.

if the apple lossless file would have been made out of original master files, then apple lossless would be a perfect copy. if the apple lossless file would have been made out of a cd (which is only a near-perfect copy due to possible errors during burning the production master cd) then the possible read errors of a near-perfect cd track would be transferred permanently into the apple lossless version.

Can we please stay in the realm of normal users? Nobody in the public has access to a "production master CD". So *of course* I was implying "CD track vs Apple Lossless of the same CD track".

on the other hand, if we compare a cd track to the lossless file generated from the same cd, in theory, the lossless file would sound worse, though the same applies here as in previous case.

Why are you saying the lossless file would sound worse? If you dump a CD track (I said "dump" not "sample"), you get a 100% exact copy. Then if you apply Apple Lossless to it, it's still the same 100% exact copy.

Here, you even say it yourself:
and the same goes to lossless audio. a lossless coding means lossless audio, in other words, even though the audio FILE becomes smaller, the audio WAVEFORM can be re-constructed 100% matching the original.

So you clearly understand the Apple Lossless file would be 100% identical. But why did you imply otherwise earlier in your post? (see above)

The only way I can see is if you think CD-ripping is made via sampling instead of digital reading.

[G4-power]

They don't have them in stores where you are?

I live in a 35 000 people town, biggest town in th region, but Finland isn't a very Mac-friendly country, nearest Apple Store is like 200 km away. And aways when I visit some bigger city I don't have time to go to an Apple Store.

[hob]

ahhhh i think apples servers are getting the most hits ever today - I for one am refreshing on a minute by minute basis!

[hob]

UK STORE BACK UPPPPPPP!!!!

[The Exile]

US store is up go go go!

[Angelo]

its back up!!!!

[seelab]

I KNEW IT, NO 60 GO .... shame on you apple

[Pipian]

They're here-- everything's updated

[drlunanerd]

UK Store is back up.
They're here.

[OziMac]

They're up!

20GB no accessories $299
40GB - $399

No surprises! ;)

[C-Mezak]

but the order status area is still down. hmmmmm

[Angelo]

software update not available to 3G ipods

[FriarTuck]

Somebody get the BadgersBadgersBadgers (http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/) guy to do iPodsiPodsiPods, because the iPod is taking over. Sprouting like mushrooms, you might say.

No Dell or Sony snakes need apply.

[croooow]

No remotes? the only accessory difference between 20 and 40 is the dock?

[C-Mezak]

SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS!!

They updated my order!!! My order for the 15gb ipod has been changed to a 20gb clickwheel!! Im so happy!!!!! I guess they are avoiding a lot of phone time :) :rolleyes: :cool: :D ;) :p

[JFreak]

So you clearly understand the Apple Lossless file would be 100% identical. But why did you imply otherwise earlier in your post? (see above)

i clearly stated how an audiophile can get a difference between same song played from cd and apple lossless file. that has nothing to do with the lossless method, but instead everything to do with the source of the end product. everyone knows that there is a possibility of a read error with optical discs, so it is very well possible that an apple lossless coded files repeats such a read error compared to faultless read of a cd track.

agreed, that is something a normal human ear will not normally notice, but it was the principle that was debated here.

it is possible that the same song is not 100% identical when two versions are compared. a cd is printed according to production master and an apple lossless file is likely encoded from that cd. because the source is different, it is possible that the apple lossless file has losed some resolution before the lossless encoding.

now if the lossless file was made from the same original than the cd, then the two versions of the same song would likely match. that is, if there is not a single write error during the manufacturing of cd production master and actually producing the cd, and not a single read error during the playback of the cd track.

understand? 99.9999% match is not 100% identical. and most likely it will not be 100% identical if it's made of different source.

[aussiemac86]

Nothing especially surprising, a nice update, albeit minor.

Whilst pricewise the mini fits in with the other ipods, there is now a gap of 16GB between the mini and the lowest ipod.
I only need like 10, but 4 is not enough. if they beefed up the mini storage that would be nice, but as everyone correctly points out, why change a product when demand outstrips supply...sigh.

[Angelo]

christ, they used my line on the apple front page.

http://www.spymac.com/gallery/show_photo.php?picid=86756&size=big

[Stewie]

SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS!!

They updated my order!!! My order for the 15gb ipod has been changed to a 20gb clickwheel!! Im so happy!!!!! I guess they are avoiding a lot of phone time :) :rolleyes: :cool: :D ;) :p

It kinda surprises me that apple did that, but good for you. :) Now the question is what will apple do with all of the 3G iPods that they had? Give them to HP to be re-branded?

[neon]

this made me laugh - was it there before or did i just not notice?

iPod Etiquette.
Remove both earbuds:
During a job interview
Taking your driver’s test
When your sweetie calls

Remove one earbud:
Listening for your flight
Buying groceries
When a coworker calls

Leave ’em in:
Visiting the inlaws
At the laundromat
When your boss calls

[croooow]

40 GB is shipping in 1-2 buisness days! I think I will still wait for Bestbuy to have them so I can get the better extended warranty.

[OziMac]

Order status back up...

Even in Australia, the build time is only 3-5 days...

But Australian prices are a bit higher than the 15/20GB used to be which is a bit harsh...

[aussiemac86]

Order status back up...

Even in Australia, the build time is only 3-5 days...

But Australian prices are a bit higher than the 15/20GB used to be which is a bit harsh...

Yeah wasnt the 15GB $449?....not cool
And since the release of the 15GB pricing the Aussie dollar has gone up so why the price change i cannot fathom, if anything it should be cheaper.

[croooow]

USB 2.0 cable standard on ALL ipods now! not just mini!

[WorldMage]

You want an iMac with scroll wheel and 12 hours battery life? :p :D

I'd give my left you know what for a G5 iMac with a 12hr battery life ,
except I'd call it a G5 PowerBook :)

And if they can shave 1 mm off the size - so much the better ;)

[aswitcher]

Wow, if I had waited 2 months my wife could have had a 40gig with twice the battery life for $50 aussie more than we bought her 20 gig for...doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth... :(

[ArticulatedArm]

so, do the controls light-up? I take it they don't. That would probably be highlighted on their page.

[Angelo]

so, do the controls light-up? I take it they don't. That would probably be highlighted on their page.

I don't think that they need too since they changed it to a click wheel. On the 3G you needed the controls to light up so you could see what you were hitting, now you don't.

[Yvan256]

I don't think that they need too since they changed it to a click wheel. On the 3G you needed the controls to light up so you could see what you were hitting, now you don't.

So THAT'S where that 50% increase in battery life is coming from, eh?
;)

[Angelo]

So THAT'S where that 50% increase in battery life is coming from, eh?
;)

pretty much :D

[FlatMac]

Anyone seen the links refering to itunes music store on the new iPod page for Canada ? (store + gifts certificates)

Woohoo ! bring us the tunes (hopefully) !

Too bad prices went up in Canada too : from 399 to 429 for the low end iPod (I know it's 5GB more but still.... :mad: )

[drlunanerd]

Biggest news IMO is the £100 price cut on the 40GB model.

Now, how about a rumour that Steve will pull a new top-end iPod out of the hat in Paris? 60GB plus some extra goodies that the current models don't have, perchance? There *is* a blank space on the iPod spec page to fill ;-)

I'm holding out for a 60GB model, whatever the features. I actually do need the space.

[Yvan256]

Anyone seen the links refering to itunes music store on the new iPod page for Canada ? (store + gifts certificates)

Woohoo ! bring us the tunes (hopefully) !

Too bad prices went up in Canada too : from 399 to 429 for the low end iPod (I know it's 5GB more but still.... :mad: )

Yeah, I find it weird. Trying to access iTMS via iTunes still says it's not available for Canada, however. :-(

As for the price changes, it's 30$ more for the low-end and 10$ more for the middle/high-end model. But now it has the USB2 cable included (which I had to pay 40$ for). I find it weird there's no remote control anymore though.

[svenas1]

Geez -- UK prices are once again hefty, through the roof >blech<. 219 £ for the 20 GB (=399 USD) and 299 £ for 40 GB (=542 USD). 32% and 35 % markup.... We're expected to pay a third more!! crickey...

[svenas1]

so, do the controls light-up? I take it they don't. That would probably be highlighted on their page.

I think the pic floating around here was just a PS job from Xidius (hope I'm not misattributing.. )

[Angelo]

Anyone seen the links refering to itunes music store on the new iPod page for Canada ? (store + gifts certificates)

Woohoo ! bring us the tunes (hopefully) !

Too bad prices went up in Canada too : from 399 to 429 for the low end iPod (I know it's 5GB more but still.... :mad: )

I think the Gift Certificates link is there cause a Canadian can buy them for someone else but the person receiving it has to live in the US, Germany, UK or France to use it. Other than that I see no reference to the iTunes Music Store on the Canadian pages.

[OziMac]

Anyone seen the links refering to itunes music store on the new iPod page for Canada ? (store + gifts certificates)

Woohoo ! bring us the tunes (hopefully) !

Too bad prices went up in Canada too : from 399 to 429 for the low end iPod (I know it's 5GB more but still.... :mad: )

Dude you should see how pissed off people are in Australia!

Prices bumped up $50 from the previous models...

No carry case or remote for the 40GB... neither has the firewire 4-to-6 pin adapter...

[seelab]

I was planning to buy one but i won't. This "so called update" isn't worth it.

[The Cheat]

Too bad prices went up in Canada too : from 399 to 429 for the low end iPod (I know it's 5GB more but still.... :mad: )

Ya, that is a bit of a drag. However, I'm guessing the discrepancy is due to that new levy that was placed on mp3 players here in Canada :mad:. So pointless....

Luckily, I get the student discount, which brings it down to $379 which isn't bad! With the exchange rate its less than the retail price in the US! :D

[solvs]

Dude you should see how pissed off people are in Australia!

Prices bumped up $50 from the previous models...

No carry case or remote for the 40GB... neither has the firewire 4-to-6 pin adapter...

Um... they both come with the adapter, and the 40 gig model comes with a case and remote. At least, according to the specs on the US site.

Edit: well... it did. I swear. :o Weird, now it doesn't.

[Dom]

It looks like I'm the only one to really quite dislike the grey clickwheel then. For my tastes it just breaks up the beautiful simplicity of the all white unit.

[Yvan256]

Ya, that is a bit of a drag. However, I'm guessing the discrepancy is due to that new levy that was placed on mp3 players here in Canada :mad:. So pointless....

The levy was on the 3G models too (had been for months). Was 25$CAN for all models, and still is.

[redfusion]

am i the only one who thinks the new ipod is ugly? I hate the clickwheel. The color looks different. And the 3g ipod only had 4 buttons, and people are complaing that they couldnt see them in the dark. 4 buttons! Its not that hard to memorize which ones do what and where they are. Maybe BestBuy or somebody will sell the 15 gig 3g at 199 now.

[medix]

On Saturday, I placed an order for a 15’ PowerBook along with a 15gb iPod in Apple’s ‘Cram and Jam’ promotion. I just checked the order status page and Apple cancelled the 15gb iPod and replaced it with the new 4g 20gb iPod! Pretty cool!

[formasfunction]

Don't know if someone before me posted this, but is there a different dock connector on the new models? The apple store says the new dock won't work with the other generation models.

[bennetsaysargh]

Don't know if someone before me posted this, but is there a different dock connector on the new models? The apple store says the new dock won't work with the other generation models.

that's just for sizewise. the minis have the same physical connector, but they are a different form. same is true with the 4G ipods and the 3G.

[JDOG_]

To answer a common question, NO the buttons on the click wheel don't light up. I think this is mainly because they had to get the touch wheel on top of the actual button so there was no real room for an LED to light it up from the back...the Apple engineers might be smart, but they're not THAT smart (although didn't they do that with the mini?).

There's pictures of the new one on iPodlounge.com--the thing that comes to mind is "bare bones apple hardware"...this is truly the ePod as it were.

http://gallery.ipodlounge.com/ipod/thumbnails.php?album=13

Bring on the FM tuner & Colored screens...I want to drool :)