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MacBytes
Jul 19, 2004, 09:29 AM
Category: Apple Software
Link: Apple releases iPod Software Update (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20040719102931)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

Essefgy
Jul 19, 2004, 09:43 AM
Dang. Thought I might get some new features, but my 3G v2.2 iPod is reportedly already up-to-date.

xtbfx
Jul 19, 2004, 09:43 AM
Let the "Apple won't update my current iPod to have all the new software that the 4th gen iPods have" pity party begin.

xtbfx
Jul 19, 2004, 09:44 AM
Dang. Thought I might get some new features, but my 3G v2.2 iPod is reportedly already up-to-date.

And my comment wasn't directed at you (posted at the same time).

Anyway, I thought the same as you until I saw their webpage, but oh well.

macridah
Jul 19, 2004, 09:48 AM
The software you download has iPod software updates for all the iPods (27MB), but the updater will know what kind of iPod you have and install the appropriate software. iPod 3.0 is only for the 4G iPods.

I wa PO too. I could live with it.

cabes
Jul 19, 2004, 10:07 AM
Way to go Apple, again! I keep buying Apple products a few months before the next version comes out (eMac, 3G iPod...). Oh well. And hey, why can't us 3G'ers get some of the updates like deleting songs from an OTG playlist???

Sabbath
Jul 19, 2004, 10:48 AM
I never believed we were going to see any of the new features in an update for 3Gs although I am sure they are all possible. I wonder if there is anything to update in 3Gs at the moment as I'm sure the last updater did all the things listed :confused:

mainstreetmark
Jul 19, 2004, 10:49 AM
I am only hoping for a better way to scroll through my 1000 artists. It's becoming a pain, as I always accelerate past the artist I'm after. I wrote a choose-by-letter thing a while back and stored it in the Notes folder. Worked well. You chose "L", and some more letters showed up, plus a list of all "L" artists. Then you chose "e" and some more letters and all "Le" artists showed up. Then, "d", and you got Led Zeppelin. well, that was a bad explanation.

irmongoose
Jul 19, 2004, 10:59 AM
mainstreetmark: Mind sharing your script with us? Sounds like a good idea...



irmongoose

gopher
Jul 19, 2004, 11:07 AM
Oh well. I was hoping Apple would offer horizontal scroll when reading the albums in the iPod. I've had to make truncated names for all my albums so I'd know what is on them. Anybody know if the new iPods have this feature?

barbaloot
Jul 19, 2004, 11:18 AM
No real update for my mini!!! That sucks. I was totally looking forward to playing with some new features on it.

iGary
Jul 19, 2004, 11:28 AM
The last update nearly destroyed my iPod, and this one has very few desirable features for me.

How about an accurate battery meter?

My two cents!

barbaloot
Jul 19, 2004, 11:33 AM
The last update nearly destroyed my iPod, and this one has very few desirable features for me.

How about an accurate battery meter?

My two cents!

If you have a 3G or older iPod this doesn't do any update. The new features are only for the click wheel new ones.

jeffgarden
Jul 19, 2004, 11:34 AM
the iPod battery acts like a laptop battery. Where even if it's fully charged, when you first turn it on and start playing a song it might show a half charge and then go up to full charge. Laptop's can do that when you first boot up also. They try to show the amount of charge you have based on you continuously doing what you're currently doing.

So sometimes it's confusing to see a low charge and then a full charge when you never charged it but that's how it's meant to be.

york2600
Jul 19, 2004, 11:34 AM
Very solid update. It's too bad the 3Gs can't get some new features, but that's life. I'll deal.

puckhead193
Jul 19, 2004, 11:39 AM
How about an accurate battery meter?

My two cents!


Yea! mine goes from nuthing to fully charge to half to a 1/4...crazy.....
I would like to delete on the go play list songs..... the main update though is the battery life and click wheel, any one like the new wheel? I don't

narco
Jul 19, 2004, 11:44 AM
Wow! Hearing the clicker through the headphones? Nice!
Already ordered my 40gig -- 1-2 days shipping with overnight FedEX, can't wait!

.narco

snahabed
Jul 19, 2004, 11:47 AM
The title of this article is very misleading.

The iPod Updater merely updates any iPod to the latest version of the software available for THAT particular model. The ONLY "new" software, therefore, is that for the 4G iPods.. and no one even has those yet.

I feel like people are going to read this and head off to the Apple site, feverishly download the updater, thinking "YAY, FINALLY, BETTER BATTERY MANAGEMENT" and then get awfully cross when the realize the truth.

Gherkin
Jul 19, 2004, 11:57 AM
Man, all I want is the "Shuffle Songs" option on the top of the menu. That's the only thing I usually go hunting for in the settings.

I guess I'll have to wait a very long time, because I don't plan on upgrading my 3G 30 GB until it is no longer functional.

croooow
Jul 19, 2004, 11:58 AM
Does the 4th Generation need an update so quickly? (No one in the general public even has one in their possesion until tomorrow afternoon)

mainstreetmark
Jul 19, 2004, 12:01 PM
mainstreetmark: Mind sharing your script with us? Sounds like a good idea...



irmongoose

Sure, it's already public.

http://www.itunesregistry.com

Make an account, upload your XML, click on Artist Browser, then save it to the iPod's Notes.

As users of that site know, I have a hard time supporting it with all the other stuff that has shown up in my life since I started that site, so it may or may not still work.

The idea is a good one, and it works well. It'd just benefit from native support, since the Notes folder is slow. A "View by hierarchy/View by list" option would be a welcome addition to iPod.

zoozx
Jul 19, 2004, 12:01 PM
Appe need to include the dock with both ipods, that is just lame!

Damien
Jul 19, 2004, 12:07 PM
Does the 4th Generation need an update so quickly? (No one in the general public even has one in their possesion until tomorrow afternoon)

I think thhat that is not a update to the 4g but the software instead i.e that is the software that will ship they are just releasing it on the web for soome weird reason :confused:

Sabon
Jul 19, 2004, 12:22 PM
I've already got Shuffle working on my 3G iPod. I just create an additional SmartList, point it to my "original" Smartlist and configure it for Random. (My original SmartLists are "everything with three stars or higher" and "least played favorites" along with Smartlists for all the different Artists I've got on my iPod.)

FIRST of all. I don't want Shuffle on all of my playlists. I want to be able to play the lists either way. This is much faster and less confusing than the All shuffle or no shuffle.

I'm buying a 4G iPod soon but only because of the new wheel. I'll finally be able to tell what I'm doing without looking down at my iPod. Note that my wife is getting my old iPod. So don't start begging for it.

rX_mE
Jul 19, 2004, 12:22 PM
As far as I know all the new futures are totaly compatibile with the 3G.

- Shuffle songs with one click
- Create multiple On-The-Go playlists
- Delete songs from On-The-Go playlists
- Select reading playback speed for audiobooks
- Hear the clicker user interface sound through headphones
- Enjoy improved playback performance

All the above are from software and I belive that they require no diferent hardware the the 3G.

- Charge via USB 2.0 connection

This might require a 4G hardware, even tough it might be posible to use in curent models. Actualy there is a big chance that this might be posible on curent models (3G).

What I feel is that except the new look and butons there is no change from 3G to 4G. Even the batery: Steve said that they got better batery life by "better power management" not by a thicker batery. Better power management is a software impovement. So the whole new iPod (4G) might be a big "lie" (except the new look).

Please comment on this; it's only a opinion. But if it is true it might mean that soon, after the iPod 4G loses it's interest, we, 3G users might get all that 4G got: including the 50% batery boost and USB charging.

Can anyone confirm or comment on this?

rX

hob
Jul 19, 2004, 12:25 PM
could just be a devious way of apple showing off the new features of the 4G to anyone with an older iPod?!

Sabon
Jul 19, 2004, 12:26 PM
As far as I know all the new futures are totaly compatibile with the 3G.

- Shuffle songs with one click
- Create multiple On-The-Go playlists
- Delete songs from On-The-Go playlists
- Select reading playback speed for audiobooks
- Hear the clicker user interface sound through headphones
- Enjoy improved playback performance

All the above are from software and I belive that they require no diferent hardware the the 3G.

- Charge via USB 2.0 connection

This might require a 4G hardware, even tough it might be posible to use in curent models. Actualy there is a big chance that this might be posible on curent models (3G).

What I feel is that except the new look and butons there is no change from 3G to 4G. Even the batery: Steve said that they got better batery life by "better power management" not by a thicker batery. Better power management is a software impovement. So the whole new iPod (4G) might be a big "lie" (except the new look).

Please comment on this; it's only a opinion. But if it is true it might mean that soon, after the iPod 4G loses it's interest, we, 3G users might get all that 4G got: including the 50% batery boost and USB charging.

Can anyone confirm or comment on this?

rX

rX_mE - It's already been noted lots of places that the 3G (and older) iPods will not have the new software features of the 4G ipods except for better battery life. This is CONSISTANT will all previous iPod generations.

QCassidy352
Jul 19, 2004, 12:30 PM
my mini can already charge through usb 2.0... that's not new. can 3rd gen ipods do that?

Also, I'm very surprised that Apple is not offering this update for the minis. Reason being that the mini is still a current product! It's a different case, when they decide not to help the now-discontinued 3rd gen ipods... because they don't want to sell those anymore. But don't they still want to sell minis? :confused:

rX_mE
Jul 19, 2004, 12:31 PM
rX_mE - It's already been noted lots of places that the 3G (and older) iPods will not have the new software features of the 4G ipods except for better battery life. This is CONSISTANT will all previous iPod generations.

Can you give me a few places where it has been noted? I haven't come over them yet.

And please detail what you mean by "except for better battery life." Is it confirmed that the 3G will have the 50% boost too via a software update? What about the USB charging?

Waiting for the links..

rX

otter-boy
Jul 19, 2004, 12:32 PM
As far as I know all the new futures are totaly compatibile with the 3G.

- Shuffle songs with one click
- Create multiple On-The-Go playlists
- Delete songs from On-The-Go playlists
- Select reading playback speed for audiobooks
- Hear the clicker user interface sound through headphones
- Enjoy improved playback performance

All the above are from software and I belive that they require no diferent hardware the the 3G.

- Charge via USB 2.0 connection

This might require a 4G hardware, even tough it might be posible to use in curent models. Actualy there is a big chance that this might be posible on curent models (3G).

What I feel is that except the new look and butons there is no change from 3G to 4G. Even the batery: Steve said that they got better batery life by "better power management" not by a thicker batery. Better power management is a software impovement. So the whole new iPod (4G) might be a big "lie" (except the new look).


rX

My guess is that "better power management" comes at least partially through a new processor. There was discussion a few months ago about the company that Apple gets its iPod processor from updating the features and improving power consumption. I can't point you to a source because I forgot the name of the company. Maybe someone else knows.

Damien
Jul 19, 2004, 12:51 PM
They need a way to make sure that each generation has changed. If they hade the featues availblle to 3G users than the nly diffrance would be a millimeter smaller and a scoll wheel

BensonLeung
Jul 19, 2004, 01:04 PM
Can you give me a few places where it has been noted? I haven't come over them yet.

And please detail what you mean by "except for better battery life." Is it confirmed that the 3G will have the 50% boost too via a software update? What about the USB charging?

Waiting for the links..

rX

Apple has a precedent of not introducing new features to older generation iPods once they release new iPods.

Simple example. The 3G iPod was introduced more than a year ago with iPod software 2.0. it included 2 new games, on the go playlists, and other improvements like star rating.

Those features will never show up in the original 5, 10 or 20 GB iPods with firewire ports no matter what software updates are on the way... the same way how the 3G iPod will never get new features from 4G like multiple on the go playlists, and the ability to delete from that playlist.

However there is one instance of Apple releasing a software update to improve battery life, but it came when a flaw in the original iPod's software was discovered.

http://www.macmegasite.com//modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=734.

evansls
Jul 19, 2004, 01:07 PM
is it just me or is it weird that apple would provide a download to the latest firmware for the click-wheel models? if only click-wheels can use this version, then there should no reason to download it since it would be preinstalled, right? i guess, maybe, if you something were to happen to your ipod and you had to reinstall it. i do understand offering downloads for LATER versions for bug fixes is smart, because models that come out after certain periods won't have the latest version.

i think that it's also ****ed up that we have to buy a new ipod every new firmware version (not talking about the DOT versions/bug fix versions). that would be the equivlent to having to buy a new mac when OSXI comes out!

it's just not practical.

joeboy_45101
Jul 19, 2004, 01:14 PM
It doesn't make sense to me why Apple doesn't just "standardize" the OS across all the iPod lines. Bring them all to 3.0! Nobody is going to look at their iPod and say, well looks like I'm going to have to replace this thing so I can enjoy the newer software features. Apple has completely missed the point, people buy iPods to listen to music not to enjoy new software. From what I understand the new iPods basically have the same computer from the original line back in 2001. And I know that some ignorant people are going to flame me for this because the 3Gen. iPods had a few new hardware features. But that's a pathetic explanation for a lack of on-the-go playlists for 1Gen. and 2Gen. iPods.

Apple now has to deal with four different software versions when it comes time to update all the iPods, this is completely inefficient and rather sloppy on their part.

MacUser1
Jul 19, 2004, 01:17 PM
i was upset that i won't have some of the new features in my 3G iPod, although I have had this iPod for quite awhile now. but, as many people have said, apple is a business and is in it to make money.

by the way, Sabon, that's a great idea.

mainstreetmark
Jul 19, 2004, 01:19 PM
They need a way to make sure that each generation has changed. If they hade the featues availblle to 3G users than the nly diffrance would be a millimeter smaller and a scoll wheel

...and $100 cheaper.

(ok, less if you don't include the crappy case and the stupid dock, neither of which I use)

barbaloot
Jul 19, 2004, 01:22 PM
Yeah the mini's have always charged via USB, even USB 1.1. That's why you get both a Firewire and USB cable with the mini. And you get that now with the 4G ipod also.

my mini can already charge through usb 2.0... that's not new. can 3rd gen ipods do that?

Also, I'm very surprised that Apple is not offering this update for the minis. Reason being that the mini is still a current product! It's a different case, when they decide not to help the now-discontinued 3rd gen ipods... because they don't want to sell those anymore. But don't they still want to sell minis? :confused:

robbieduncan
Jul 19, 2004, 01:26 PM
It doesn't make sense to me why Apple doesn't just "standardize" the OS across all the iPod lines. Bring them all to 3.0! Nobody is going to look at their iPod and say, well looks like I'm going to have to replace this thing so I can enjoy the newer software features. Apple has completely missed the point, people buy iPods to listen to music not to enjoy new software. From what I understand the new iPods basically have the same computer from the original line back in 2001. And I know that some ignorant people are going to flame me for this because the 3Gen. iPods had a few new hardware features. But that's a pathetic explanation for a lack of on-the-go playlists for 1Gen. and 2Gen. iPods.

Apple now has to deal with four different software versions when it comes time to update all the iPods, this is completely inefficient and rather sloppy on their part.

This is an insane rant. Should Apple support OSX on all Apple computers ever made. Sure they contain different hardware, but that's a "pathetic explanation". Are you a programmer? A hardware developer? Or are you really just asking for the impossible?

Sabbath
Jul 19, 2004, 01:30 PM
My guess is that "better power management" comes at least partially through a new processor. There was discussion a few months ago about the company that Apple gets its iPod processor from updating the features and improving power consumption. I can't point you to a source because I forgot the name of the company. Maybe someone else knows.

That's partly what I'm thinking, I'm sure there is some improvement on the way it caches from the hard disk as that is one of the main uses of power in my understanding, and this could be added to the 3Gs as long as it is only a software issue for example more memory for the cache isn't required. However I can remember hearing that the chip in the 3G was more powerful than it needed to be, it had about 2x the processing power necessary, so by cutting down on this and making some other changes there could well have been a fair bit of powersaving possible from changing the chip.

tex210
Jul 19, 2004, 01:33 PM
i think that it's also ****ed up that we have to buy a new ipod every new firmware version (not talking about the DOT versions/bug fix versions). that would be the equivlent to having to buy a new mac when OSXI comes out!

it's just not practical.

Practical?....
I don't really expect my 1999 iMac DV SE crt to even be able to boot os 11.x....
Really, I'll be pleasantly surprised when/if it runs Ten-Four.
Come on, how many pentium 1's are running XP?

zv470
Jul 19, 2004, 01:33 PM
Damn I should have read this thread before downloading the updater, what a waste of a couple of minutes. :o

Sabon
Jul 19, 2004, 01:33 PM
It doesn't make sense to me why Apple doesn't just "standardize" the OS across all the iPod lines. Bring them all to 3.0! Nobody is going to look at their iPod and say, well looks like I'm going to have to replace this thing so I can enjoy the newer software features. Apple has completely missed the point, people buy iPods to listen to music not to enjoy new software. From what I understand the new iPods basically have the same computer from the original line back in 2001. And I know that some ignorant people are going to flame me for this because the 3Gen. iPods had a few new hardware features. But that's a pathetic explanation for a lack of on-the-go playlists for 1Gen. and 2Gen. iPods.

Apple now has to deal with four different software versions when it comes time to update all the iPods, this is completely inefficient and rather sloppy on their part.

I just can't believe people like Joeboy. How stupid is this post? Are you saying that Toyota should update my 1994 pickup so that it is the same as the new 2005 Tundas?

You bought an iPod (assuming you actually did) with the list of features listed when you bought it. It NEVER stated that you would get additional features added later. And guess what? That's the way it is.

joeboy_45101
Jul 19, 2004, 01:35 PM
This is an insane rant. Should Apple support OSX on all Apple computers ever made. Sure they contain different hardware, but that's a "pathetic explanation". Are you a programmer? A hardware developer? Or are you really just asking for the impossible?

Yes I am a programmer. And no it isn't some impossible feat. Look, I've got "Panther" running just fine on my grandfather's old iMac G3 DV SpecialEdition. If Apple can get OS 10.3 to work with that machine then it shouldn't be such a pain in the ass for them to get iPod OS 3.0 working on the 1Gen. iPods.

For instance, how would it make you feel if Apple released "Tiger" but told everybody that they would have to buy new Macs because they weren't going to make it available for a 6 month old PowerMac G5. But the new computer you would have to buy would be the exact damn thing you already own.

robbieduncan
Jul 19, 2004, 01:40 PM
Yes I am a programmer. And no it isn't some impossible feat. Look, I've got "Panther" running just fine on my grandfather's old iMac G3 DV SpecialEdition. If Apple can get OS 10.3 to work with that machine then it shouldn't be such a pain in the ass for them to get iPod OS 3.0 working on the 1Gen. iPods.

For instance, how would it make you feel if Apple released "Tiger" but told everybody that they would have to buy new Macs because they weren't going to make it available for a 6 month old PowerMac G5. But the new computer you would have to buy would be the exact damn thing you already own.

The iMac is much more similar to a recent Mac than a 1st Gen iPod is to a 3rd Gen iPod, let alone a 4th. The 3rd Gen iPods contain different processors! The contain different A/D convertors. Whilst the chips are similar they are not the same. These devices have a very limited amount of flash memory (to load the OS into). There is very unlikely to be enough space for support for other types of iPod. So Apple would have to make 3 or 4 versions of "iPod OS 3.0". Is this worth it for Apple? Probably not.

joeboy_45101
Jul 19, 2004, 01:42 PM
I just can't believe people like Joeboy. How stupid is this post? Are you saying that Toyota should update my 1994 pickup so that it is the same as the new 2005 Tundas?


No, because if you actually knew a thing about the iPod internally and compared each one you would see that functionally they're not much different from one another.

And I do own an iPod, actually two a 2Gen. 5Gb and a 3Gen. 15Gb and the only reason I replaced the old one is because I ran out of room on it. If Apple thinks the new software version is going to be a big selling point, then the company is in worse shape then I thought.

Windowlicker
Jul 19, 2004, 01:46 PM
Appe need to include the dock with both ipods, that is just lame!

that's what i'd prefer too, but we have to remember they have to make some difference between the mini and the 20gb. if the 20gb had all the goodies, the mini wouldn't sell so well anymore because you would get 5x the space for only a bit more the same money.

Sabon
Jul 19, 2004, 01:48 PM
No, because if you actually knew a thing about the iPod internally and compared each one you would see that functionally they're not much different from one another.

And I do own an iPod, actually two a 2Gen. 5Gb and a 3Gen. 15Gb and the only reason I replaced the old one is because I ran out of room on it. If Apple thinks the new software version is going to be a big selling point, then the company is in worse shape then I thought.

I _do_ know about the internals and no I don't think that the software is going to be a _big_ selling point. But it could potentially be the difference between someone upgrading their iPod or not. Say they are 90% likely to buy a G4 iPod until they find out they can download the new version of the OS and do that instead, for free. That would sure make Apple look stupid.

Note that there is a history of being able to upgrade / update the OS on Macs and PCs and no history on MP3 devices of ANY brand. Not just Apple iPods.

joeboy_45101
Jul 19, 2004, 01:49 PM
The iMac is much more similar to a recent Mac than a 1st Gen iPod is to a 3rd Gen iPod, let alone a 4th. The 3rd Gen iPods contain different processors! The contain different A/D convertors. Whilst the chips are similar they are not the same. These devices have a very limited amount of flash memory (to load the OS into). There is very unlikely to be enough space for support for other types of iPod. So Apple would have to make 3 or 4 versions of "iPod OS 3.0". Is this worth it for Apple? Probably not.

You actually called my post and insane rant and then reply with this nonsense. Sorry Bubba, but an iMac G3 DV SpecialEdition is no where near an iMac G4.

Mudbug
Jul 19, 2004, 01:53 PM
If you're both done - great. If not, make it a private matter.

As for staying on topic - I'm curious why the date on this updated (regardless of the version) is 2004-07-15, when it was released on 2004-07-19.

joeboy_45101
Jul 19, 2004, 01:58 PM
I _do_ know about the internals and no I don't think that the software is going to be a _big_ selling point. But it could potentially be the difference between someone upgrading their iPod or not. Say they are 90% likely to buy a G4 iPod until they find out they can download the new version of the OS and do that instead, for free. That would sure make Apple look stupid.

Note that there is a history of being able to upgrade / update the OS on Macs and PCs and no history on MP3 devices of ANY brand. Not just Apple iPods.

People are not going to replace an old iPod with a new one because of the Software Version. It just doesn't happen, there's no reasoning for it.
Having the newest software on an old iPod is not going to hold people back. Why?, you might ask. Because people replace iPods for one of two reasons: it's broke or there's no more room for my music and stuff. Jobs said it best a few months ago, "It's about the music, stupid". The software should be a non-issue.

big_boldge
Jul 19, 2004, 02:14 PM
I also was hoping to get the full ipod update but when i saw it nothing seemed to have changed which disapointed me! Also if the 4G ipods can get 12hours battery just by clever energy consumption surely that can be done to the 3G ipods with a system upgrade? But im still happy with my 20GB ipod at least i have a dock as the new 20G's dont! At least the ipod technology is moving along nicely although it annoys me as i no longer have the most upto date items!

mkaake
Jul 19, 2004, 02:17 PM
People are not going to replace an old iPod with a new one because of the Software Version. It just doesn't happen, there's no reasoning for it.
Having the newest software on an old iPod is not going to hold people back. Why?, you might ask. Because people replace iPods for one of two reasons: it's broke or there's no more room for my music and stuff. Jobs said it best a few months ago, "It's about the music, stupid". The software should be a non-issue.

the software is an non-issue - your two ipods still work the same way they did yesterday :rolleyes:

If Apple thinks the new software version is going to be a big selling point, then the company is in worse shape then I thought.

and i believe the selling points are (in order for me)

a) $100 cheaper
b) extended functionality
c) thinner

you'd do well to take mudbug's advice - he doesn't usually talk for the sake of seeing his posts...

as for his point, that's really strange that it would be labeled for the thursday 4 days before it was released... wonder if it was available for download that whole time?

joeboy_45101
Jul 19, 2004, 02:22 PM
I'm done, I think we're all even now.

asan102
Jul 19, 2004, 02:51 PM
I've already got Shuffle working on my 3G iPod. I just create an additional SmartList, point it to my "original" Smartlist and configure it for Random. (My original SmartLists are "everything with three stars or higher" and "least played favorites" along with Smartlists for all the different Artists I've got on my iPod.)

FIRST of all. I don't want Shuffle on all of my playlists. I want to be able to play the lists either way. This is much faster and less confusing than the All shuffle or no shuffle.

I'm buying a 4G iPod soon but only because of the new wheel. I'll finally be able to tell what I'm doing without looking down at my iPod. Note that my wife is getting my old iPod. So don't start begging for it.
I'm pretty sure that if you set a smart playlist to Random, it will just add the songs in a random order in the first place, but the iPod won't actually re-shuffle them every time you listen.

QuiteSure
Jul 19, 2004, 02:54 PM
I understand ... Apple's a business ... blah blah blah ... but the new features are not enough for me to want a new iPod, but should probably be available for the people with the 3G, if that's possible through the software


blah blah blah

When's Motion shipping?

asan102
Jul 19, 2004, 03:09 PM
I just can't believe people like Joeboy. How stupid is this post? Are you saying that Toyota should update my 1994 pickup so that it is the same as the new 2005 Tundas?

You bought an iPod (assuming you actually did) with the list of features listed when you bought it. It NEVER stated that you would get additional features added later. And guess what? That's the way it is.
Yes, but apple specifically said, when they released the iPod that it has upgradeable firmware so they can give you new features without having to buy a new iPod. They promised that when it was introduced, and now they aren't following through. This would be a trivial thing for them to do, and there's no reason not to. Sure, there are some sales coming in from people who are considering a larger HD and are pushed over by the new features, but they could give us some of the new features and save some for the 4Gs. I think it would be reasonable to give us the new On-the-Go playlist functionality and the new menu layout – battery is probably at least partially a hardware thing, and the Audiobook speed adjustment is not really important enough to bring to 3G.


Also, your comparison is ridiculous. We're not talking about the apple delivery truck coming down your street and taking your ipod and installing new hardware - we're talking software, which is a completely different thing. It's in no way comparable to giving out new iPods to previous customers. Giving us a software update doesn't entail any loss of profit for Apple.

Beck446
Jul 19, 2004, 03:09 PM
Those who say that software improvements (ie deleting in on the go playlists) aren't (alone) going to result in a single sale are absolutely correct! Regular people buy new iPods when their old one is broken or they need more space. In my opinion, this is a serious mistake to not offer firmware updates for old versions, assuming this is possible of course. And I don't even own an iPod...

rock6079
Jul 19, 2004, 03:14 PM
This is an insane rant. Should Apple support OSX on all Apple computers ever made. Sure they contain different hardware, but that's a "pathetic explanation". Are you a programmer? A hardware developer? Or are you really just asking for the impossible?

im sorry but whether or not i agree wit happle supporting the 3G ipods with their new firmware update, ur analogy is incorrect. as far as we know, these new ipods do not contain any new hardware, and thus this software could or should technically work on the 3G ipods.

a correct analogy would be to say that if EVERY time apple has a new os release, like for example 10.2 to 10.3, i should have to buy a new computer, which i shouldnt, becuase as long as the hardware can support it i should be able to use it, al beit , it would b ok for apple to charge money for the new firmware or operating system

jrober
Jul 19, 2004, 03:29 PM
I too downloaded the "update" on my 3 week old 20Gb 3 Gen iPod only to find i was up to date!

I think Apple should remember us iPod folk that made it a success and provide us with a software update. I don't expect to get it asap when the new ones are released but brand loyalty is earned not a right, little annoyances make customers less likely to reccomend. A little sweetener now and then for little effort would not go amiss and make us enthuse even more about apple and how they look after their customers.

So Apple please give us an update in a few weeks or so but let us know on the qt. via Arn about how you are going to be nice to us so we can stop chewin the fat over this and discuss the finer points of 12in Powerbook bags.

Sabon
Jul 19, 2004, 03:44 PM
I too downloaded the "update" on my 3 week old 20Gb 3 Gen iPod only to find i was up to date!

I think Apple should remember us iPod folk that made it a success and provide us with a software update. I don't expect to get it asap when the new ones are released but brand loyalty is earned not a right, little annoyances make customers less likely to reccomend. A little sweetener now and then for little effort would not go amiss and make us enthuse even more about apple and how they look after their customers.

So Apple please give us an update in a few weeks or so but let us know on the qt. via Arn about how you are going to be nice to us so we can stop chewin the fat over this and discuss the finer points of 12in Powerbook bags.

There is a HUGE history at Apple for not announcing new products. This actually isn't just Apple but Intel, AMD, Dell, HP, IBM (do I REALLY need to continue) too. Why? Because people stop buying products if they know a new version is coming out shortly. And guess what. They still have bills to pay, etc. They aren't going to hurt purposely themselves.

With that said. Over the last couple of months there have been LOTS of rumors about new iPods. Anyone that wants to know about these rumors has only to go to Google and type in iPod rumors and they will see what is expected to happen.

As for iPods not receiving new software functionality. There has been several precedents made when each new generation of iPod has been introduced. If you don't realize by now that "old" iPods will not get new software functionality you haven't been paying attention.

m.r.m.
Jul 19, 2004, 03:44 PM
isn´t the lossless audio encoding what airport extreme uses? doesn´t this mean it´s the first step in that direction? ipod with airport extreme support... :eek:

Anonymous Freak
Jul 19, 2004, 03:45 PM
Let the "Apple won't update my current iPod to have all the new software that the 4th gen iPods have" pity party begin.

Hey, I bought a used 30GB iPod the day before the news broke.

I got it for $300, including iTrip and Belkin Voice Recorder, so I have gotten a few extras over the new 20GB model for the same price. I don't know how well I like the click wheel, so that's a tossup. But I WOULD like to have the new software features. (Actually, what I'd really like is a text reader that has bigger fonts, and can read longer files, and RTFs.)

JohnGalt
Jul 19, 2004, 03:49 PM
my mini can already charge through usb 2.0... that's not new. can 3rd gen ipods do that?

Also, I'm very surprised that Apple is not offering this update for the minis. Reason being that the mini is still a current product! It's a different case, when they decide not to help the now-discontinued 3rd gen ipods... because they don't want to sell those anymore. But don't they still want to sell minis? :confused:

In all the talk about retrofitting the software, I think Cassidy's point is well-taken.

And Apple should (barring aforementioned assertions of technical hurdles) absolutely offer this updated functionality for mini's.

Why would someone buy a mini at $249 when the new iPod has better software and better battery life at virtually the same price??

I suppose Apple thinks "size doesn't matter" ? <s>

DravenJ
Jul 19, 2004, 04:46 PM
Hi guys, I have read the forums and website for about a year and this is my first post.

Anyway has anyone checked out the Archive.pax file in the package installer? Well here is what I found:

Besides all the usual stuff I found four firmware files and a cmd file
Firmware-1.1.4 (I think for the Touch Wheel Ipod/Scroll Wheel Ipod)
Firmware-2.2.2 (I think this one is for the Ipod with Dock Connector)
Firmware-3.2.3 (I think this one is for the Ipod Mini)
Firmware-4.3.0 (I think this is for the Click Wheel Ipod)
As labled on apples page in the upper right:
http://www.apple.com/ipod/download/

UpdaterBackEnd - Maybe the file that loads the firmware to the Ipod?

Maybe there is a way to update the firmware "manually" to the ipod with these files or any other files found in the Archive.pax. What do you guys think?

Of course who has a Ipod that they want to test it on?

late

j33pd0g
Jul 19, 2004, 04:54 PM
Well... I need the deleting songs from On-The-Go playlists feature. My 3rd gen iPod's buttons are pretty sensitive. Sometimes I add songs that I don't want - some songs get put on the list twice, and that is a pain. It almost makes the On-The-Go feature usless. I just got this thing 2 months ago. My 1st gen was stolen... I liked that better. At least the buttons worked.

mainstreetmark
Jul 19, 2004, 05:20 PM
...But I WOULD like to have the new software features. (Actually, what I'd really like is a text reader that has bigger fonts, and can read longer files, and RTFs.)

There's a development doc somewhere at apple.com. They describe the format of Notes and how you could, technically, write a script to bust up a text document into several 4k pages, up to 1000 pages. It supports real basic html-esque type stuff, like bolding, so I doubt if you'll get full rtf support. You can make hyperlinks to songs and playlists with it tho.

The doc is called "ipodnotereader.pdf", for anyone who's interested.

rendezvouscp
Jul 19, 2004, 06:17 PM
Of course who has a Ipod that they want to test it on?


I'll test it. What should I do?
–Chase

rendezvouscp
Jul 19, 2004, 06:19 PM
Well... I need the deleting songs from On-The-Go playlists feature. My 3rd gen iPod's buttons are pretty sensitive. Sometimes I add songs that I don't want - some songs get put on the list twice, and that is a pain. It almost makes the On-The-Go feature usless. I just got this thing 2 months ago. My 1st gen was stolen... I liked that better. At least the buttons worked.

Is there a way for them to change how sensitive the buttons are? Because my last iPod was in a sweet spot as far as sensitivity goes, but my current iPod doesn't respond as well, and actually runs a bit slower (snappiness).
–Chase

QCassidy352
Jul 19, 2004, 06:41 PM
Hi guys, I have read the forums and website for about a year and this is my first post.

Anyway has anyone checked out the Archive.pax file in the package installer? Well here is what I found:

Besides all the usual stuff I found four firmware files and a cmd file
Firmware-1.1.4 (I think for the Touch Wheel Ipod/Scroll Wheel Ipod)
Firmware-2.2.2 (I think this one is for the Ipod with Dock Connector)
Firmware-3.2.3 (I think this one is for the Ipod Mini)
Firmware-4.3.0 (I think this is for the Click Wheel Ipod)
As labled on apples page in the upper right:
http://www.apple.com/ipod/download/

UpdaterBackEnd - Maybe the file that loads the firmware to the Ipod?

Maybe there is a way to update the firmware "manually" to the ipod with these files or any other files found in the Archive.pax. What do you guys think?

Of course who has a Ipod that they want to test it on?

late

welcome to the board! :) That's quite an interesting discovery you've made. I might be willing to try it on my mini... how do you suggest one goes about it?

rdowns
Jul 19, 2004, 06:56 PM
im sorry but whether or not i agree wit happle supporting the 3G ipods with their new firmware update, ur analogy is incorrect. as far as we know, these new ipods do not contain any new hardware, and thus this software could or should technically work on the 3G ipods.

a correct analogy would be to say that if EVERY time apple has a new os release, like for example 10.2 to 10.3, i should have to buy a new computer, which i shouldnt, becuase as long as the hardware can support it i should be able to use it, al beit , it would b ok for apple to charge money for the new firmware or operating system

Oh man, I can see the endless threads now if Apple were to charge for an iPod OS update. Personally, I think it's a good idea. I'd pay for improved functionality as long as Apple didn't overprice (wishful thinking) it.

mailhojo
Jul 19, 2004, 07:02 PM
If you think about it Apple is doing what every other consumer electronics company does. If I buy a stereo today from Sony it has certain features. Six months from now they come out with the new model that has added features. Do they upgrade the one you bought six months ago? No. I'm not saying Apple couldn't, I just think they are acting like every other electronics company. The average person doesn't understand that it can be upgraded with firmware or software. If I bought a walkman that played one CD straight through and then I saw a new one where I could shuffle my songs weeks later, I'd have to buy a new one. I think this is the mindset Apple is trying to get us to whether we like it or not.

infectbda
Jul 19, 2004, 07:16 PM
Sign the Apple iPod Firmware Petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/aipodfw/petition.html

DravenJ
Jul 19, 2004, 07:42 PM
Hey guys,

I have read the questions,to my post. Basically I do not know if for sure that we could do a "manual" firmware update. When I type UpdaterBackEnd in the cmd window it does nothing. Anyway... I will be happy to email anyone the firmwares I got tommorow. You can also get them probably from the following path if you installed the new upgrade:

Utilities>iPod Software Updater>iPod Updater 2004-07-15

ctrl+Click iPod Updater 2004-07-15 and choose "Show Package Contents"

Then browse Contents>Resources
In there you will find UpdaterBackEnd

then go into Updates and you will see the four firmwares.

Another I idea I have is you could maybe change the names and try to install the firmware. Or you could try to change the UpdaterVersions.plist file so that it will install the firmware of your choice.

Good luck
Late

Yvan256
Jul 19, 2004, 08:14 PM
I am only hoping for a better way to scroll through my 1000 artists. It's becoming a pain, as I always accelerate past the artist I'm after. I wrote a choose-by-letter thing a while back and stored it in the Notes folder. Worked well. You chose "L", and some more letters showed up, plus a list of all "L" artists. Then you chose "e" and some more letters and all "Le" artists showed up. Then, "d", and you got Led Zeppelin. well, that was a bad explanation.

Not at all! In fact it reminds me of that "iPod3" video I saw a few months ago (you know, the VR glasses iPod).

So you're telling me we can use notes to make our own menus? The iPod just keeps on amazing me! (had it since january 2004)

Le Big Mac
Jul 19, 2004, 08:14 PM
If you think about it Apple is doing what every other consumer electronics company does. If I buy a stereo today from Sony it has certain features. Six months from now they come out with the new model that has added features. Do they upgrade the one you bought six months ago? No. I'm not saying Apple couldn't, I just think they are acting like every other electronics company.

Right, but the issue is software vs. hardware. A new stereo from sony can't be updated by software, an iPod can. It seems that apple is being spiteful of its current customers my not offering them an opportunity to upgrade the feature set of their older iPod, at least if the features are supported by the hardware.

It's pretty short-sighted, too. How much less inclined am I to buy a new iPod knowing that apple will be unlikely to provide any improved functionarlityafter a year or two?

Stella
Jul 19, 2004, 08:36 PM
iPod 3 software WILL NEVER be available for G3, or G2 iPod users.

If you want an update then you have to buy the latest iPod.

So... get used to it... no amount of whining will change this... as G2 owners found out last year when the exact same thing happened last year when G3 iPods came out.

Yes, it may suck, but so does life.


(jrober - this isn't aimed at you!)





I too downloaded the "update" on my 3 week old 20Gb 3 Gen iPod only to find i was up to date!

I think Apple should remember us iPod folk that made it a success and provide us with a software update. I don't expect to get it asap when the new ones are released but brand loyalty is earned not a right, little annoyances make customers less likely to reccomend. A little sweetener now and then for little effort would not go amiss and make us enthuse even more about apple and how they look after their customers.

So Apple please give us an update in a few weeks or so but let us know on the qt. via Arn about how you are going to be nice to us so we can stop chewin the fat over this and discuss the finer points of 12in Powerbook bags.

themacrobaye
Jul 19, 2004, 08:50 PM
Just wait guys, boo-hoo right now, but just wait... iPod Hacks will have some way to get the software from 4G onto 3G, you'll see... But until then, Apple's got some nice high-res pics for all of us to goggle and drule over...

aaaahhhhhllllllggggg...mmmmmmmm, ipod scroll wheel
*head smacks into monitor"
"DOH!!"

rendezvouscp
Jul 19, 2004, 10:08 PM
Alright, so I played with the Firmware updater, fully ready for anything to happen to my iPod (hey, it's under warranty, I can always have it replaced...). So, I switched the numbers of the firmware, and restored my iPod. Well, I'm guessing it installed, but after disconnecting, my iPod booted up with the Apple icon (I had a weird urge to capitilize that C. darn Apple), then showed me the folder icon. It couldn't find the HD! Well, all hope is now lost for at least me. So, I plugged it back in, and weird things started happening (the iPod showed up in iTunes, but then unmounted itself). Well, I restored it back with the right firmware numbers, and all is well. –Chase

mainstreetmark
Jul 19, 2004, 10:24 PM
Sign the Apple iPod Firmware Petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/aipodfw/petition.html

Give us a break. those things are pointless.

jbembe
Jul 19, 2004, 11:05 PM
I too downloaded the "update" on my 3 week old 20Gb 3 Gen iPod only to find i was up to date!

I think Apple should remember us iPod folk that made it a success and provide us with a software update. I don't expect to get it asap when the new ones are released but brand loyalty is earned not a right, little annoyances make customers less likely to reccomend. A little sweetener now and then for little effort would not go amiss and make us enthuse even more about apple and how they look after their customers.


Good point. I've bought two brand new iPods @469+tax each in the last 2 years. 1000 bucks should get you a nice software update with simple functionality like deleting a song from an on the go playlist, or making more than one on the go playlist, why should I have to go out and do another 400 more? :eek:

voodoofish
Jul 20, 2004, 03:28 AM
- Charge via USB 2.0 connection


The thing I find most interesting about how both the iPod and the iPod mini now charge via either FireWire or USB 2.0 is that it means Apple is now longer trying to promote it's FireWire technology through the iPod. Before, when you could only charge via FireWire, it meant it was more desireable to connect your iPod via FireWire, and so PC users where more likely to invest in FireWire card if their PC didn't come with one (which most probably don't since most people buy their PCs on the basic specs. and price alone, which is why I think they're so crap, because it means the PC vendors have to cut down on quality because people can't really look at that when comparing the price of different PCs).

So yeah basically this just reminds me of whenever people write articles saying how they don't think the iPods dominance will last for long since Apple is too "inflexible" (or something like that, basically they tend to point out iPod's are fancy and expensive and that Apple's fancy and expensive computers have lost out to cheap, commoditised, crappy windoze pcs, and then say this happens in all new consumer electronics products after a while), but here you can see Apple is trying hard to keep demand for their product strong (especially with the price cuts - in the UK, the price has actually been cut rather than in the US where basically they've just upgraded the capacity of the bottom and mid range models right?)

voodoofish
Jul 20, 2004, 03:35 AM
is it just me or is it weird that apple would provide a download to the latest firmware for the click-wheel models?

Havn't they changed it now though so that just one updater can do all four different pieces of firmware update? What I mean is, before this update wasn't there a separate download for iPod mini and iPod users? So that could be one reason for releasing this update for everyone, because it simplifies the update process for people that don't care about firmware etc. (the reason I've noticed the different downloads before they infied them into this one download was because i was thinking some non-technical folk might get all confused about which one to download, but now they have really good pictures next to the iPods on the download page that I think make it pretty obvious which iPod is which).

voodoofish
Jul 20, 2004, 03:46 AM
Those who say that software improvements (ie deleting in on the go playlists) aren't (alone) going to result in a single sale are absolutely correct! Regular people buy new iPods when their old one is broken or they need more space. In my opinion, this is a serious mistake to not offer firmware updates for old versions, assuming this is possible of course. And I don't even own an iPod...

What about Microsoft, they sell loads of versions of Windows and Office on software updates alone?

I think the point is, any update, whether software or hardware, is seen just as an update by most people - the new product as the newer version, with newer features.

So long as Apple still gives out codec updates for older iPods, then I'm not really bothered - you bought your iPod knowing it could only do one on-the-go playlist at once and where happy with it, so you should still be happy with it now. It's like if you got uphappy eveytime your computer became out of date, you'd never be happy with it, so I just think you need to learn to deal with not having the most cutting edge thing ever all the time.

joeboy_45101
Jul 20, 2004, 07:46 AM
What about Microsoft, they sell loads of versions of Windows and Office on software updates alone?

I think the point is, any update, whether software or hardware, is seen just as an update by most people - the new product as the newer version, with newer features.

So long as Apple still gives out codec updates for older iPods, then I'm not really bothered - you bought your iPod knowing it could only do one on-the-go playlist at once and where happy with it, so you should still be happy with it now. It's like if you got uphappy eveytime your computer became out of date, you'd never be happy with it, so I just think you need to learn to deal with not having the most cutting edge thing ever all the time.

That's a bad analogy. Microsoft sells software and updates to software. Microsoft is not selling you a physical machine. Apple is selling hardware and software. If they offered a version of the iPod updater that puts 3.0 on all versions and have it for something reasonable like $9.99 then I would buy.

misterniall
Jul 20, 2004, 08:38 AM
Why would apple release a firmware update to a device that is not available and would presumably come already installed and upto date with the latest firmware on a shiny CD in the box? Does no one else find it odd that the firmware is out but unusable by anyone? I just thought it was really weird.



Niall

iGary
Jul 20, 2004, 08:38 AM
I'm not upset about not being able to take advantage of 4G features, myself.

My camera, for example (a Canon 300D) can be made to have the features of its more expensive brother, the 10D, by using a software hack. Do I expect Canon to include these firmware pieces free of charge? Of course not, it is a more expensive camera.

Apple has to improve their products (and features) to keep people buying (and replacing) older products, or enticing new buyers...

What I do want out of Apple is a battery meter that actually works. I don't think that is too much to ask for on a 300 dollar piece of equipment. :D

CubaTBird
Jul 20, 2004, 01:00 PM
When the techtv viewers wanted leo back on cfh, everyone sighned the petition and got him back! They are not pointless! :mad:

germ war
Jul 20, 2004, 03:28 PM
and i believe the selling points are (in order for me)

a) $100 cheaper
b) extended functionality
c) thinner


Of course, with the 20GB not receiving the extras (dock, etc.) it had before, it's not *REALLY* cheaper - only the 40GB is $100 cheaper.

So, maybe software IS the big difference this time around, because I don't think anyone's really going to notice a 1mm difference in thickness.

eSnow
Jul 20, 2004, 06:29 PM
Why would apple release a firmware update to a device that is not available and would presumably come already installed and upto date with the latest firmware on a shiny CD in the box?

It is an indication that the firmware was not completely ready and tested when they started producing the Gen4 iPods. Earlier on in the development process they sorted out the priorities and implemented only the vital stuff, had the units produced and in the time it took to produce, package, sell, and ship them finished up the firmware.

amnesiac1984
Jul 20, 2004, 07:57 PM
I think it is grossly unfair of apple to not update our existing software. Do they really think were are going to buy news ones just cos of the new features? And besides, I have a mini which is still the latest model, why can't I have features on a par with the iPod.

I mean, I don't mind if most of them weren't included but the shuffle thing has been the biggest annoyance with my Mini. When I listen to my iPod on random (most of the time) and I hear a song I like or hear a song off an album I like, I want to easily be able to turn shuffle off in order to find another song on that album. I can't count the amount of times that I've been listening a song comes on from album X and I think, oh cool, I really wanna hear song Y from this album, if only there was a quick way to turn shuffle off so I could jsut skip a few tracks. But alas I have to spend ages going through menus to find shuffle and then turn it off, go back to now playing and skip tracks. This risks my life when I'm driving, but if it was easy then it would be no worse than turning up the volume while driving. i can keep my eyes on the road and do it by feel.!

wbsmith89
Jul 20, 2004, 11:33 PM
Is it possible for anybody to reverse engineer the software to work on the 3G? Just a thought.

slac
Jul 21, 2004, 05:42 AM
I know it probably won't help... but what the heck, it is fun to see the numbers grow! :D

http://www.petitiononline.com/aipodfw/petition.html


(edit: sorry, I missed the previous post)

Wigletbill
Jul 22, 2004, 09:42 AM
This was a complete waste of an update! I am being lazy so forgive me if I am repeating someone but... my 4g already came with 3.0 and my 3g & mini were also up to date. The only updated part of this update is the updater itself. No new firmware.


"How could a mac user vote for W??? I don't get it"

JohnGalt
Jul 22, 2004, 06:08 PM
As I posted earlier, w/o the new firmware, it makes no sense to buy a mini, so why doesn't apple allow the new f/w on the mini (a current product)?

Just a theory, but since the Apple website still shows 4 week delivery for a mini, I suspect they may intentionally not be releasing the f/w for the mini, making the logical purchase choice the new iPod, where delivery is immediate. Nice way to manage inventory.

Once the buyers shift ordering to the new iPod, the inventory problem for the mini is alleviated. Once that happens, I suspect the new firmware may be 'now immeidiately available' for the mini.

If I were Apple, I'd probably do this, enabling immediate shipment of more product than currently being done due to backorders/delays.