Why I really really dislike Windows & Steam

[Huntn]

Yes, I'm one of the guys in here pushing Windows gaming. It's not my fault native Mac gaming is inadequate. That being said, last time I played on my PC everything worked great. Tonight, on my real PC, no internet, until after I repaired a couple of connections (that's a network repair function within Windows). Then Steam would not connect. So I am in the process of downloading an update and seeing if that helps. Bottom line, I really do dislike online gaming services because when they don't work right, they S.U.C.K. You know I'm thinking about Torchlight, the new RPG, but if there is anyway I can play this game and avoid STEAM I'll do my best to achieve that. I'll also mention this is on WinXP so who knows. I admit as a rule running Vista on my MBP I don't have these problems.

[soldierblue]

Steam issue =/= Windows issue.

Just sayin'.

[macfanboy]

i loooove steam except for the fact you can't play something like portal (an offline game) if you dont have a internet connection, and the fact valve's too stubborn to make it for OS X.

[JackAxe]

So, how is this STEAM's fault? You have Window's issues. :)

I hope you get this resolved quickly. It's always a bummer when things don't work right. Any idea what knocked out your connection?

I just reinstalled STEAM, but only because I built a new PC. Now I have to download the games I bought, which is going to take some time. Fortunately most of my games our store bought.

You know what really SUCKS, GFWL! I lost all of my saves from RE5, becuase I prefer to play it in offline mode. I even lost some saves in SFIV. Even though I have these saves on my backup drive, I can't use them, because both games tell me they're damaged, which is a farse!!! SO F# MS and it's POS mee-too online abomination. It's not competition, it's an attempt to push out a service that's doing good for PC gaming. So I can't agree with any dislike of Valve's nifty service, as it's really keeping PC gaming happy when even MS has turned its back on it for the most part. Ok, I'm done ranting, for the moment. :o

There's an offline mode in STEAM macfanboy. I haven't tried it for Portal though.

Bringing STEAM to the Mac would be great, but until then, this is one of the reasons I have a PC, but for pretty much everything else, I'll never want to be without a Mac.

[Dagless]

I'm a Steam addict and it's never let me down. That's why after 5 years I still use it all the time.
During times when I've had no connection for whatever reason I load it up in offline mode with no problems.

[MasterDev]

Yeah, that's a windows issue there.

I've had a few issues with steam here and there, but in the end, it was a windows issue.

But Steam = Awesome. I always have an internet connection everywhere I go, so I never have to worry about not being able to play my games.

[Huntn]

So, how is this STEAM's fault? You have Window's issues. :)

I got online, but no steam, just in a continual state of connecting...

[MacBoobsPro]

Bringing STEAM to the Mac would be great, but until then, this is one of the reasons I have a PC, but for pretty much everything else, I'll never want to be without a Mac.

I'm not totally sure what Steam is but if it is simply providing games via downloads then there is a mac site that does that.

http://www.direct2drive.co.uk/

I bought Sims 3 and Spore from it and its great.

[aznguyen316]

steam owns.. it's similar to direct2drive but.. I like it better b/c it in itself is its own DRM and you can download your games anywhere on any computer granted you have access to install steam and get internet =)

[trondah]

Uhm, how can you blame either of Windows OR Steam? You had just "repaired a couple of connections", that indicates to me that you have network problems.

[txa1265]

I've never had an issue with Steam and usign Offline Mode ... but I agree that it it a pain to NEED to do that.

As for Torchlight, you can grab it as a pre-order from GamersGate - no online connection after install - and it is 10% off on pre-order.

[apfhex]

You know what really SUCKS, GFWL!
Worse are the games that require Steam and GFWL even if you buy the retail disc (I'm looking at you, Dawn of War II). If either one of the services is having problems that day, no gaming for you!</soupnazi>

GFWL is especially bad, though. If it detects an update, you are forced to install it before you can login. And the interface is awkward and sluggish to navigate, at least for me (for some reason in Windows 7, the clickable area of the buttons doesn't match what's displayed, it's offset so I have to click below or to the side of what I'm trying to press).

Steam is great when it works, and it does work most of the time, but it's really, REALLY slow at responding when it isn't able to connect (due to service outages or internet problems on your PC). Sometimes it seems as if it's not even going to execute but then 15 minutes later you see the "run steam in offline mode?" prompt.

[Dagless]

GFWL is especially bad, though. If it detects an update, you are forced to install it before you can login. And the interface is awkward and sluggish to navigate, at least for me (for some reason in Windows 7, the clickable area of the buttons doesn't match what's displayed, it's offset so I have to click below or to the side of what I'm trying to press).

Yup! I bought Fallout 3 about a year ago on Steam. I can play the game but I can't connect to Live for updates, communications etc because Live needed updating. Only problem was their server was down and it took 3 days of sporadic testing before the progress bar decided to move.

It'd be nice if Live was deactivated on Steam games and communications/DLC were routed through Steams own service. It has the capacity to do so!

[chrono1081]

I refuse to use the crapware that is Steam for this reason. (Actually because I can't play my games without an internet connection, and please don't say "offline mode". Try it once...seriously...doesnt work for more then a few reboots.

Unfortunately I no longer buy any game that requires Steam because I work in a remote location and cannot plug my personal laptop into the network in order to please Steam. Since I live where I work I cannot play the games I purchased but instead have to resort to piracy, something I completely am against but will resort to if I cannot play a game I legally purchased.

Way to go Steam your awesome :rolleyes:

[nick1516]

Kind of off topic, but it's the newest thread about steam, does anybody know if you can mod games you buy off steam, like adding in new maps?

[xparaparafreakx]

Kind of off topic, but it's the newest thread about steam, does anybody know if you can mod games you buy off steam, like adding in new maps?

Yep. For most games, the directory is the same as retail.

[Winni]

I never had any problems with Steam when it was running in offline mode. It always worked and I think that Valve's Steam platform is the ONLY DRM platform on the market that is tolerable and acceptable for its customers. Steam works and isn't in the least annoying.

As for Windows - well, I'm more or less platform agnostic. After a few minutes, I know longer really feel the difference whether I am currently using OS X, Windows, Linux or whatever else I need to use at that moment.

However, I must say that I like Microsoft as a company much better than Apple - both try to lock you into their platforms, but Apple is too arrogant, elitist and fascist for my taste. Of course, Microsoft, like any other large corporation, is fascist, too. But at least they don't force me to use one of only three available computer models. They don't care where I run their platform, as long as I paid the license fee. And their platform is not picky about the hardware on which it runs.

[Dagless]

And their platform is not picky about the hardware on which it runs.

But the flip side to that is less reliability since it has to accommodate all that hardware, and drivers can also take up a lot of space.

I prefer gaming on a PC. There's something about mouse tracking I don't like in OSX. In Windows I've deactivated all that extra tracking nonsense and rely on using my Razers on-the-fly DPI adjusting.

[Huntn]

So, how is this STEAM's fault? You have Window's issues. :)

Well besides run'n on Windows which is an issue :), the problem was Steam and its servers. I had not run Windows/Steam in a while on my MPB and it displayed the same problem that I had on my Pentium III. Steam just sits there, says updating, and nothing happens. I went over to the Steam forums and lots of complaints there. Finally after about 8 tries and letting it sit, Steam finally updated. What is most frustrating if you click on the cancel button in Steam, nothing happens and the program ignores you! Apparently Steams servers are not up for the challenge...

Besides did I mention, I like selling used games and Steam prevents this...

[Huntn]

You have my generation MBP and your thinking about installing Snow Leopard? Caution.

You guys may hoot, but I've found a dubious reason to like Windows, besides giving me the ability to play most AAA games these days, and still have a working computer and am now posting this message by way of Vista on my MBP.

I installed Snow Leopard 2 days ago and installed updates on my MBP (see signature). Everything went well or so I thought. I booted into 10.6 several times, no problem. This morning when I started up my MBP, the little icon spun and spun, and finally my gray apple was replaced by a circle with a diagonal slash through it. I waited about 5 min, then restarted it into Windows which launched no problem. I came to MacRumors and snooped around and found this thread Snow Leopard Grey Screen (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=812624). Sigh... It implies some MBPs have a fautly intel chip in them that requires a motherboard swap with 10.6. I've arranged to talk to an Apple Expert tomorrow night. Fingers crossed it's not a motherboard swap, but I tend to be a pessimist about such things.:p

[chrono1081]

I hate Steam and will not buy any game that requires Steam.

Steam is just a piece of **** DRM scheme that sugar coats itsself buy offering downloadable content.

Why do I hate Steam? Because I cannot play a game without being connected to it. (Please dont say offline mode because you have to connect initially, and then reconnect any time steam feels it may need an update). For some of us who work in remote areas of the world all we have is our computers but no internet connection that we can plug a personal computer into to get steam updates.

Not to mention my Portal is completely unplayable because steam seems to think its not a legit copy even though I bought it best buy and it worked the first month I had it.

Well, sorry Valve but you just created more piracy for yourself because to get my steam games to work I unfortunately had to turn to that route. (Being a hobbyist game developer I'm against piracy but I'm also against ripping the customer off who paid $40 for your product).

Ok off my soapbox now. I just wanted to chime in and say I hate steam too!

[Dagless]

Steam is just a piece of **** DRM scheme that sugar coats itsself buy offering downloadable content.
DRM that works. Have you seen the alternatives, complete with install limits?

Why do I hate Steam? Because I cannot play a game without being connected to it. (Please dont say offline mode because you have to connect initially, and then reconnect any time steam feels it may need an update). For some of us who work in remote areas of the world all we have is our computers but no internet connection that we can plug a personal computer into to get steam updates.
Offline mode :p. But seriously I don't have an internet connection at my place abroad. Infact my Macbooks L4D and TF2 weren't updated for 6 months yet they played just fine in offline mode (well L4D and the HL games did, didn't even try TF2 for obvious reasons). If it's never connected it doesn't know theres an update to pull down.

Not to mention my Portal is completely unplayable because steam seems to think its not a legit copy even though I bought it best buy and it worked the first month I had it.
That's very odd. You need to prove to Valve you bought it, provide them with a reciept or something. I had the same thing happen to me when one of my accounts was stolen. I got it all back with no problem.

Well, sorry Valve but you just created more piracy for yourself because to get my steam games to work I unfortunately had to turn to that route. (Being a hobbyist game developer I'm against piracy but I'm also against ripping the customer off who paid $40 for your product).
You're admitting to pirating Steam games?
I knew someone who pirated L4D. Because you can't connect to the Steam server he was limited to Single Player only which is no way to enjoy the game. I've put hundreds of £ into Steam over the years, which would have cost much more if I bought elsewhere ;).

[chrono1081]

DRM that works. Have you seen the alternatives, complete with install limits?

Yes, it is bad. Games such as Spore go a really wrong route by letting you install only 3 or 5 times.


Offline mode :p. But seriously I don't have an internet connection at my place abroad. Infact my Macbooks L4D and TF2 weren't updated for 6 months yet they played just fine in offline mode (well L4D and the HL games did, didn't even try TF2 for obvious reasons). If it's never connected it doesn't know theres an update to pull down.

Unfortunately for offline mode to work you need to connect to Steam initially and then switch to offline mode. (Completely defeating the purpose of online mode IMO). Here is straight from Steams website:

Please note that you must connect to the Steam Network and test each of the games you would like to use in Offline Mode at least once to set up your account and configure Offline Mode on your machine.

Unfortunately they are right. I am unable to install Orange Box because of it wanting to update first. (Then it tells me that its not valid anyway).

That's very odd. You need to prove to Valve you bought it, provide them with a reciept or something. I had the same thing happen to me when one of my accounts was stolen. I got it all back with no problem.

I tried that route. I even sent them the box pictures and the receipt from Best Buy. They told me I must be mistaken and have someone elses game.

You're admitting to pirating Steam games?
I knew someone who pirated L4D. Because you can't connect to the Steam server he was limited to Single Player only which is no way to enjoy the game. I've put hundreds of £ into Steam over the years, which would have cost much more if I bought elsewhere ;).

I admit I have a "suspect copy" of Orange Box that I bought it in a foreign country for $2 and unlike my $40, my $2 version works without having to update or anything.

I am completely against software piracy and am the only person I know who owns legit copies of Adobe Master Collection, Maya, ZBrush, Corel Painter, etc. But, I'm also not about to get ripped off by an incompetent company with incompetent tech support people who, after having all the proof in the world staring them in the face continue to tell me the product I bought (and that worked) is invalid. Sorry Valve for buying your game, I wont do it again as long as you have Steam requirements.

I stopped buying anything that has Steam in it (Borderlands) because I know it will be impossible to play until I get home.

And no, I do not pirate. Orange Box was the only exception because I already bought it.

[soldierblue]

So, how is this STEAM's fault? You have Window's issues. :)

/sigh

[JackAxe]

<sigh>FUN!<sigh/>


That's better.

[Youngchild]

I stopped buying anything that has Steam in it (Borderlands) because I know it will be impossible to play until I get home.

BoarderLands doesn't require STEAM, it uses some horrible GAMESPY component for online play, luckily it has off-line and LAN play.

You might be thinking of Modern Warfare 2, which does require STEAM to play.

I *personally* have had ZERO problems with STEAM, it's my preferred digital distribution service.

[soldierblue]

That's better.

You're cool.

[JackAxe]

You're cool.

Thank you.

[Huntn]

Update on my MBP: See this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=8926424#post8926424). I'm back in action. It may not be a Snow Leopard issue, but I need to give it another week or two before I feel comfortable saying that. ;)

You have my generation MBP and your thinking about installing Snow Leopard? Caution.

You guys may hoot, but I've found a dubious reason to like Windows, besides giving me the ability to play most AAA games these days, and still have a working computer and am now posting this message by way of Vista on my MBP.

I installed Snow Leopard 2 days ago and installed updates on my MBP (see signature). Everything went well or so I thought. I booted into 10.6 several times, no problem. This morning when I started up my MBP, the little icon spun and spun, and finally my gray apple was replaced by a circle with a diagonal slash through it. I waited about 5 min, then restarted it into Windows which launched no problem. I came to MacRumors and snooped around and found this thread Snow Leopard Grey Screen (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=812624). Sigh... It implies some MBPs have a fautly intel chip in them that requires a motherboard swap with 10.6. I've arranged to talk to an Apple Expert tomorrow night. Fingers crossed it's not a motherboard swap, but I tend to be a pessimist about such things.:p

Steam mostly aggravates me when I start playing a new game mostly because it goes online and checks in with the mother ship. I have the original Half Life CD but it won't run XP for some reason and it will run on Steam. Ok I guess that is good. What makes this a pain is that HL more or less takes over your desktop, firewall alerts do not jump to the front and if you have to force it back to the desktop, due to a firewall alert, the resolution stays at whatever the game is and everything gets very wonky, giant windows can't be closed, and you can't get where you need to go. If I was running this outside of Steam I would not be dealing with this. Of course outside of Steam it would not be running. After 5 computer restarts I ended up turning off my firewall. :):(

[Dagless]

Steam mostly aggravates me when I start playing a new game mostly because it goes online and checks in with the mother ship. I have the original Half Life CD but it won't run XP for some reason and it will run on Steam. Ok I guess that is good. What makes this a pain is that HL more or less takes over your desktop, firewall alerts do not jump to the front and if you have to force it back to the desktop, due to a firewall alert, the resolution stays at whatever the game is and everything gets very wonky, giant windows can't be closed, and you can't get where you need to go. If I was running this outside of Steam I would not be dealing with this. Of course outside of Steam it would not be running. After 5 computer restarts I ended up turning off my firewall. :):(
I'm confused. So you don't like gaming on Windows because when if you switch out of the game it keeps the resolution the same? This problem is down to your hardware, not Windows or Steam (which is just a DD channel, it has nothing to do with resolution changes - the only hardware interaction it has is with the microphone). I run L4D in a resolution lower than native. If I alt+tab out of the game, or any game, desktop resolution is restored instantly. If its firewall popups getting in the way then add an exclusion for Half Life.
(FWIW I'm running an x1600 iMac on Windows XP)

You're cool.

It might be a good idea to write a proper reply rather than one word. That's against the forum rules too.

[TheSpaz]

Is it possible to install Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 without Steam? If it is, then would it be possible to run CODMW2 on Mac OS X with a Cider wrapper?

[Huntn]

I'm confused. So you don't like gaming on Windows because when if you switch out of the game it keeps the resolution the same? This problem is down to your hardware, not Windows or Steam (which is just a DD channel, it has nothing to do with resolution changes - the only hardware interaction it has is with the microphone). I run L4D in a resolution lower than native. If I alt+tab out of the game, or any game, desktop resolution is restored instantly. If its firewall popups getting in the way then add an exclusion for Half Life.
(FWIW I'm running an x1600 iMac on Windows XP)


You are confused. :p I don't like gaming on Steam, not Windows. When running a game that sits on my hard drive outside of Steam I never (hardly ever) have firewall issues. With Steam and new games, I have lots of firewall issues. And it's specifically because of Steam and onerous oversight. Plus I like being able to sell my old games. No can do with Steam. :)

[JackAxe]

Huntn,

Are you running the Window's Firewall, or a 3rd party one? I recall that when I was using a free 3rd party firewall under XP a few years back, that I had to constantly mess with it to keep it happy.

Most games automatically update the Exceptions under XP's firwall now days, so besides Warcraft 3, I have not needed to manually set any of the games I've installed this newer PC. Steam automatically set the exceptions it needed, as did all of the games I've bought from it and installed, like RE5 and now Tomb Raider -- bought it for $7.49. :) It's only the really old games that require I manually add them to the list.

[Huntn]

Huntn,

Are you running the Window's Firewall, or a 3rd party one? I recall that when I was using a free 3rd party firewall under XP a few years back, that I had to constantly mess with it to keep it happy.

Most games automatically update the Exceptions under XP's firwall now days, so besides Warcraft 3, I have not needed to manually set any of the games I've installed this newer PC. Steam automatically set the exceptions it needed, as did all of the games I've bought from it and installed, like RE5 and now Tomb Raider -- bought it for $7.49. :) It's only the really old games that require I manually add them to the list.

I'm currently using Net Defense which comes with System Suite and occasionally I use Zone Alarm (free version). I say occasionally because I keep changing my mind about having one or two firewalls going. I actually read somewhere that offers better protection.

However, I've always wondered if you are behind a router, do you really need a firewall?

Back to what you said, under the Windows firewall, I assume you have to give permission the first time you launch the game? My PC on which I'm having the Steam issues, is running XP. If you think the Windows firewall is better than 3rd party solutions, I'd be willing to give it a try. Is Windows firewall supposed to be robust? If so I might even try it on my MBP running Vista. Thanks!

[natlinxz]

I would love to see steam on OSX as much as anyone, and it seems possible with the recent jump in mac games. (thanks to intel)

But Valve is too lazy to program for even the PS3, let alone the Mac. It will take not only a large market share, but an SDK easier than Little Big Planet for valve to port steam to mac.

[Huntn]

I would love to see steam on OSX as much as anyone, and it seems possible with the recent jump in mac games. (thanks to intel)

But Valve is too lazy to program for even the PS3, let alone the Mac. It will take not only a large market share, but an SDK easier than Little Big Planet for valve to port steam to mac.

It's not just Steam, all those Windows games would have to be programmed...

[Dagless]

But Valve is too lazy to program for even the PS3, let alone the Mac.

I can't believe some people still think like this. Game developers aren't lazy if they choose not to support something. They go off publisher deals that may prohibit development of a certain platform, estimated sales and if its worth the money, the performance differences, etc. Everyone who has an intel Mac has the opportunity to install Bootcamp, Windows and Steam.
There are 34 million Xbox 360s out there, against 27 million PS3s. There are 58 million Wii's, but due to circumstances that you don't know you decide to put it down to "laziness". The same people who are constantly updating Team Fortress 2 and releasing new, free content. The same people who released a huge sequel to a brilliant game just 1 year after its launch. (and okay the same people who have also been working on Episode 3 for a few decades :p)

[natlinxz]

I can't believe some people still think like this. Game developers aren't lazy if they choose not to support something. They go off publisher deals that may prohibit development of a certain platform, estimated sales and if its worth the money, the performance differences, etc. Everyone who has an intel Mac has the opportunity to install Bootcamp, Windows and Steam.
There are 34 million Xbox 360s out there, against 27 million PS3s. There are 58 million Wii's, but due to circumstances that you don't know you decide to put it down to "laziness". The same people who are constantly updating Team Fortress 2 and releasing new, free content. The same people who released a huge sequel to a brilliant game just 1 year after its launch. (and okay the same people who have also been working on Episode 3 for a few decades :p)

Sales of the console hardware have little to do with this. Sure, there are 58 million Wiis, but developers choose not to program for it because the majority of Wii owners aren't even aware that you can buy new games for it.

Anyway, Valve is clearly a lazy company, they outsources the porting of Orange Box (PS3) to EA, and Half Life (PS2) to Sierra. That's not being strategic, that's being lazy.

[sesnir]

Anyway, Valve is clearly a lazy company, they outsources the porting of Orange Box (PS3) to EA, and Half Life (PS2) to Sierra. That's not being strategic, that's being lazy.

Lazy? Or maybe that's just a lot of work that you've oversimplified. They outsourced to get the games out while they were still relevant.

I like Steam. I agree if you don't have an internet connection then Steam becomes useless, but other than that I've never had an issue.

[JackAxe]

I'm currently using Net Defense which comes with System Suite and occasionally I use Zone Alarm (free version). I say occasionally because I keep changing my mind about having one or two firewalls going. I actually read somewhere that offers better protection.

However, I've always wondered if you are behind a router, do you really need a firewall?

Back to what you said, under the Windows firewall, I assume you have to give permission the first time you launch the game? My PC on which I'm having the Steam issues, is running XP. If you think the Windows firewall is better than 3rd party solutions, I'd be willing to give it a try. Is Windows firewall supposed to be robust? If so I might even try it on my MBP running Vista. Thanks!

I guess one can never be to safe, so that's why I have a software firewall running along with my router.

As for weather XP's security is better than the 3rd party firewalls, I honestly don't know. I haven't had any issues under XP64 so far, so I guess things are good. But as it doesn't harass me like the free one I used under XP32 and is included on all XP PCs, I know that the developer will at least test for it, so that's why I use it now days. Anyways, It just makes things simpler for me. :]

As for permissions, I didn't as me for Tomb Raider, but I think I allowed it for RE5. I still need to download and reinstall SFIV, so I'll see if it asks my permission.

[Huntn]

As for weather XP's security is better than the 3rd party firewalls, I honestly don't know. I haven't had any issues under XP64 so far, so I guess things are good.

Would you say you have a better computing experience running 64 bit over 32 bit? If so how? Thanks! :)

[Dagless]

Sales of the console hardware have little to do with this. Sure, there are 58 million Wiis, but developers choose not to program for it because the majority of Wii owners aren't even aware that you can buy new games for it.

Anyway, Valve is clearly a lazy company, they outsources the porting of Orange Box (PS3) to EA, and Half Life (PS2) to Sierra. That's not being strategic, that's being lazy.

Do you know how much work in the gaming industry is outsourced? A clue; the only game I've played in god knows how many years that was 100% developed inside 1 studio with no publisher demands is New Mario Wii.
And of course Wii owners know you can buy new games for it. Have you not seen the weekly NDP or similar sales charts? New Mario (released last month) is in 2nd, Wii Sports (1st) can be discounted because its bundled with the Wii console in every region except Japan.

So come on now. Don't spread FUD if you don't know how it works.

[soldierblue]

It might be a good idea to write a proper reply rather than one word. That's against the forum rules too.

That was two words.

Would you say you have a better computing experience running 64 bit over 32 bit? If so how? Thanks! :)

I've had a better experience with 64bit Windows, ever since drivers caught up. You got the ability to use more ram, plus it always seems to run a little snappier for whatever reason (though the in-game performance differences are minimal save for anything cause by the additional ram). XP64 is the exception, driver support never really got at far as is has on Vista or 7.

[Huntn]

I've had a better experience with 64bit Windows, ever since drivers caught up. You got the ability to use more ram, plus it always seems to run a little snappier for whatever reason (though the in-game performance differences are minimal save for anything cause by the additional ram). XP64 is the exception, driver support never really got at far as is has on Vista or 7.

I'm thinking about 64bit Vista, but I'll probably end up just running on the current 32bit install. Thanks!

[Huntn]

Do you know how much work in the gaming industry is outsourced?

Not to run this thread off a cliff, but outsourcing is evil. It lowers employees wages while raising top executives salaries. It is going (or has all ready) sunk the middle class of countries where outsourcing is rampant... end statement.

[JackAxe]

I'm thinking about 64bit Vista, but I'll probably end up just running on the current 32bit install. Thanks!

My brother runs Vista 64 and has been happy with it, as did my friend prior to jumping to Win 7 64.

If you have the extra ram, go for Vista 64. I didn't jump to XP64 until last year, so it's been great, but I really only use it for games, 3D, and the web when my MacBook Pro is its bag.

[Huntn]

My brother runs Vista 64 and has been happy with it, as did my friend prior to jumping to Win 7 64.

If you have the extra ram, go for Vista 64. I didn't jump to XP64 until last year, so it's been great, but I really only use it for games, 3D, and the web when my MacBook Pro is its bag.

I've got 4GB RAM. I wonder if I could do an upgrade install and not have to shuffle stuff around? In other words keep my current games intact?

[soldierblue]

I've got 4GB RAM. I wonder if I could do an upgrade install and not have to shuffle stuff around? In other words keep my current games intact?

I don't think you can go from a 32-bit install to a 64-bit install via upgrade. You can back up your Steam folder though, it should recognize all the game data after the fresh install.

[Huntn]

I don't think you can go from a 32-bit install to a 64-bit install via upgrade. You can back up your Steam folder though, it should recognize all the game data after the fresh install.

Oh, not good for a decision to upgrade to 64 bit Vista. I wonder if you can do an upgrade to a 64bit W7 (from 32bit Vista) without having to start from scratch? If I could find Win7 for $50, I'd consider it.

[Keleko]

Any upgrade from 32 bit to 64 bit requires a complete reinstall. You can't ever do a simpler upgrade install for that. Even going from Win 7 32 bit to Win 7 64 bit requires a complete reinstall.

[Huntn]

Any upgrade from 32 bit to 64 bit requires a complete reinstall. You can't ever do a simpler upgrade install for that. Even going from Win 7 32 bit to Win 7 64 bit requires a complete reinstall.

Thanks for the info!