New iTunes Store Terms Suggest Impending Apple TV 3.0 Software Update

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/29/new-itunes-store-terms-suggest-impending-apple-tv-3-0-software-update/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/10/29/093556-itunes_store_terms_500.png

Users attempting to make purchases in Apple's iTunes Store today are being presented with updated Terms and Conditions that they must agree to before conducting their purchases. While such updates are fairly routine, today's changes include mention of Apple TV software version 3.0, which is yet to be released.The Terms of Sale have been revised to clarify that you can now use iTunes LPs and iTunes Extras on Apple TV with software version 3.0 or higher.The Apple TV software was most recently updated (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/24/apple-tv-2-4-update-now-available-updated-remote-app-with-gestures/) in June, bringing the software to version 2.4. The Apple TV hardware was also quietly updated (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/14/apple-drops-40gb-apple-tv-and-discounts-160gb-model-to-229/) last month with the elimination of the 40 GB model and a price drop on the 160 GB model. Reports at that time indicated that Apple's new iTunes LP format is likely formatted specifically for the Apple TV, suggesting that a software update for the device may be near.

Article Link: New iTunes Store Terms Suggest Impending Apple TV 3.0 Software Update (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/29/new-itunes-store-terms-suggest-impending-apple-tv-3-0-software-update/)

[spazzcat]

Guess I will have to plug mine back in?

[kanon14]

Does anyone still use Apple TV? I mean with the new Mac Mini, Server or not, it can totally replace Apple TV.

[Tilpots]

Software? Not hardware? I know Phil said no new products this year, but c'mon... Maybe Google will take on this market, too. :)

[Chaszmyr]

I would have liked new hardware to come with the new software. Still, new software is totally welcome!

[LanPhantom]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

I want a true apple tv. 47 inch 1080P LED LCD running at 240hz. Slap a mac mini inside. Now that is a sweet tv.

[bnerd]

It's time Apple added a killer feature to Apple TV .... maybe something like remote streaming to other devices (laptops, iPhone/Pod) a TV Tuner or maybe cutting a deal with Hulu. Apple needs to do something quick because my Mac Mini is currently plugged into my TV ... and it does a lot more than my old Apple TV.

[Schizoid]

A pointless update for a pointless product.

[iOrlando]

never updated my apple tv since i didnt want to lose boxee. but if its 3.0...maybe i might..need to relearn how to do that whole boxee thing though...argh

btw i think i paid $200 for my apple tv last black friday from the apple store...have used it every weekend (except for 2 -3 times). I would say i got my money's worth out of it so far...

[NightStorm]

Does anyone still use Apple TV? I mean with the new Mac Mini, Server or not, it can totally replace Apple TV.
I use mine everyday. Why would I want to store my data near my TV, when I could put it on a NAS drive and share it everywhere?

[Bubba Satori]

Another bag of neglected hobby hardware hurt.

[tallyho]

A pointless update for a pointless product.

They're pretty useful actually if you already have a large iTunes library, on a MacMini attached to your main tv for instance. I then have two AppleTVs and instantly can access all my stuff in two other rooms. So I really don't think the AppleTV is pointless - each to their own though!

[chrysrobyn]

Does anyone still use Apple TV? I mean with the new Mac Mini, Server or not, it can totally replace Apple TV.

I got mine maybe 2-2.5 years ago and it still sees regular use. It replaced an Elgato iHome (or eyeHome?) with a blown power supply. I use my AppleTV as a DVD player replacement, ripping all my DVDs to iTunes and streaming them from my desktop. Not having to find the right disc, not risking my kids destroying yet another of their favorites (and having to replace it) makes the AppleTV the right device. Everything else just costs more. It's plugged into my Trinitron TV, in 480i mode or whatever, so the 720p limitation doesn't bother me.

I was actually thinking that most of my spinning media dies in 3 years, so I'm just about due. I've been thinking for a long time about replacing the drive with a solid state option, likely a PATA / CompactFlash combo, but http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820183253 might be a good option too. My library far exceeds my 40GB drive (or a 500GB one), so streaming is the only stock option I have. I may end up going with an external USB, but I'm reluctant to hack it again -- I don't like worrying about software updates doing stuff I don't like.

Is there any reason so expect the AppleTV to die any time soon? Do the power supplies go as predictably as the 1st gen Time Capsules?

[musicpenguy]

Why does everyone hate on the Apple TV - it is an awesome product - it does a REALLY good job streaming all of my videos from my Mac to my TV - it brings my media everywhere now - I am aware that it would be sweet if it did Hulu and other things like that but it is a simple great device that does what it was designed to do.

[freepeacesweet]

never updated my apple tv since i didnt want to lose boxee. but if its 3.0...maybe i might..need to relearn how to do that whole boxee thing though...argh

btw i think i paid $200 for my apple tv last black friday from the apple store...have used it every weekend (except for 2 -3 times). I would say i got my money's worth out of it so far...

I got my 160GB model last month from Amazon for $200 and for that price i love it in the bedroom. I won't be updating it either as i can't get iTunes store in my country so i completley rely on boxee and XBMC.

[weezerr]

put an atom 330 and NVIDIA Ion in it, and dont raise the price, and I'll buy.

[jellomizer]

#1 1080i at least I would be much happier with 1080p. I am not going to get any device that doesn't fully utilize my TV. As I would know a version will.

Now down on my list and it may already support this, as so far I have always stopped reading the specs due to failure of #1

#2 Surround Sounds support.

#3 Support for other services then iTunes. Hulu, Netflix, and other internet based on demand services.

[the-oz-man]

Why does everyone hate on the Apple TV - it is an awesome product - it does a REALLY good job streaming all of my videos from my Mac to my TV - it brings my media everywhere now - I am aware that it would be sweet if it did Hulu and other things like that but it is a simple great device that does what it was designed to do.

I have to agree. I have 2 of these devices (one hacked with a Lacee 2TB drive and one without) and rely on both of them everyday. All of my dvd movie and tv shows are ripped into iTunes format and stored on my home server. It's hassle free tv without the worry of damaged or lost discs and my entire library on demand (currently about 3TB). These software updates are wonderful and keep them coming apple.

[macadam212]

Does anyone still use Apple TV? I mean with the new Mac Mini, Server or not, it can totally replace Apple TV.

Mac Mini is a computer, Apple TV is just an interface to access content from iTunes or on your iTunes library, they are quite different products really! You might notice different ports on the back too, which are more relevant to TV's and home entertainment systems.

A pointless update for a pointless product.

Pointless how? Be more specific - I like watching my TV and Movie content in my living room.

Yes the hard dive space could be bigger to fit our libraries, and maybe the interface could be adapted and expanded. AppStore and games would be nice too. It's a good product, just needs a bit more love from apple!

But it's a good product, and i'm sure it will get even better :)

[nando2323]

Man there is a lot of hatred for the ATV man I love mine I use it all the time I have 2 of them and a mini serving them it's great. I have over 400 movies and 1200 tv shows all streaming in my house with no issues. People that have issues with ATV is because they have crap network gear and do not know how to troubleshoot. I stand by ATV as a product it's great for what it can do.

[whatever]

Does anyone still use Apple TV? I mean with the new Mac Mini, Server or not, it can totally replace Apple TV.

I use my Apple TV everyday. I've hacked it a couple of times to check out products such as aTV Flash, but have never been satisfied with others technology running on Apple TV and in fact my current Apple TV was reset back to Apple defaults and I haven't bothered to change it back in the last couple of months.

Is Apple TV perfect no, but if Apple was to open up its API it would over night become the best desktop set out there. Simply recompiling many of the apps created for the iPhone would work there.

I've thought about getting a new MacMini to replace my AppleTV, but since it doesn't have HDMI, I'll stick with what I have and eventually may make my Mac Pro become my media center at home.

[jim.arrows]

Does anyone still use Apple TV? I mean with the new Mac Mini, Server or not, it can totally replace Apple TV.

Yes, for 3x the cost -- I can (and do) have AppleTVs in the Home Theater, Living Room, and Bedroom for the cost of a mini. Why don't people get that? :confused:

[danny_w]

#2 Surround Sounds support.

:apple:TV has had DD/DTS pass-thru since 2.0 came out, and it seems to work just fine for me. Actually I just discovered this and it has given new life to my :apple:TV

[CalMin]

I love my ATV - use it daily for Podcasts, Youtube etc. I have bought several iTunes TV series and movies on it, and painstakingly ripped my favorite DVDs for instant access on it. Digital copies of new movies than come on bluray and DVD work well too.

I wish Apple would just open it up so that services like Hulu and Netflix could run on the device. Please Apple, let other services in with 3.0... :)

[kirreip]

A pointless update for a pointless product.

Oh, so you seem to know what 3.0 will bring. Tell us, what are you waiting for?

[danny_w]

Yes, for 3x the cost -- I can (and do) have AppleTVs in the Home Theater, Living Room, and Bedroom for the cost of a mini. Why don't people get that? :confused:
Actually even more than that if you want HDMI with integrated audio. I refuse to run another cable and my current system (Sony HT-CT100) cannot do it anyway (audio must be in the hdmi stream).

[jonnysods]

Bring it on!

I hope they update the hardware too - I'm pumped to get an ATV as we cancelled our cable and winter is coming - I won't even have to leave the house to rent a movie anymore!

[Galley]

And they make great space heaters. too! :rolleyes:

[danny_w]

Bring it on!

I hope they update the hardware too - I'm pumped to get an ATV as we cancelled our cable and winter is coming - I won't even have to leave the house to rent a movie anymore!
I just cancelled cable as well. I can get Netflx and CinemaNow though my BD player (but I don't have accounts with either), but not Hulu, which would be a very nice addition if Apple does add it.

[the-oz-man]

Actually even more than that if you want HDMI with integrated audio. I refuse to run another cable and my current system (Sony HT-CT100) cannot do it anyway (audio must be in the hdmi stream).

I have a Denon receiver and just the solo HDMI cable works great for DD/DTS out of my AppleTV.

[akjs2396]

Great product, use mine everyday and about to get another to go in the bedroom. Have it connected to my itunes library on my mini!

[bagleyb]

#1 1080i at least I would be much happier with 1080p. I am not going to get any device that doesn't fully utilize my TV. As I would know a version will.


I don't get statements like this. I'm curious what set top box is connected to it, and how much 1080p content it gives you? You know, since you'll never have a device that doesn't fully utilize your TV.

Would I like it? Yes. But most of the content I already watch is only 720p or 1080i, and I'm happy with that quality.

[danny_w]

I have a Denon receiver and just the solo HDMI cable works great for DD/DTS out of my AppleTV.
Yes, but I was referring to Mac Mini, which doe snot have hdmi and does not support audio out of the MDP connector, so getting an hdmi output with integrated audio requires an expensive adapter.

[the-oz-man]

Yes, but I was referring to Mac Mini, which doe snot have hdmi and does not support audio out of the MDP connector, so getting an hdmi output with integrated audio requires an expensive adapter.

Ah, true. That's why I haven't moved to a mini.

[Oliver.m]

I love this product. An update can only be a good thing. I just wish they would either increase the storage or allow an external to be plugged in without hacking.

[danny_w]

I love this product. An update can only be a good thing. I just wish they would either increase the storage or allow an external to be plugged in without hacking.
Very true. Having everything local would be much better than having to stream everything as I do now.

[markm49uk]

A pointless update for a pointless product.

Nah - my family absolutely love the Apple TV especially the wife who gets to view the latest series of US shows (via a US iTunes account).

I did once install Boxee but went never found it that great especially over here in the UK - might take another look though as it keeps evolving.

[Kebabselector]

And they make great space heaters. too! :rolleyes:

Interesting, I've been offered a unused ATV for £100 (40gb) and was looking for a low(ish) power heating solution for my loft conversion.

:p

[podlasek]

If you have small children, being able to download the latest Mickey or other educational material or cartoon as the 'kid friendly' networks have decided that only early morning is available to watch a shows suitable to small children. We download and watch when the little one is stuck inside due to weather, etc. and pick what interests the them. Seems the 'networks' forgot about the children of the world and are gearing all timeslots at the older kids with their selections.

Does it give Blu-ray capable? no
Does it need to? No
Is it better than streamed cable 'hi def'? usually
can you rent a movie without having to preplan it? yes, and you don't need to worry weather the store has it or the Red-Box has a copy.

This is a great device with A LOT of potential, I'm glad to hear other features are coming, I wish they would upgrade the crap out of it spec wise too, but for what it is it's a great device as it sits.

oh, I have 2, one hacked with a 250gb drive and one base 40gb everything else streams and syncs with iTunes, gotta love it.

[MacGod]

I have the original 40 GB unit and have used it extensively to stream content from my iMac to my television, but with the recent upgrade to 2.4 on the Apple TV, iTunes 9 and Snow Leopard, have been unable to sync at all. (there are a quite a few of us in this boat).

I unplugged my AppleTV and it sits on a shelf right now. I hope I can finally use it again and the next time, I will not be so quick to 'upgrade' everything.

Bill

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I don't get statements like this. I'm curious what set top box is connected to it, and how much 1080p content it gives you? You know, since you'll never have a device that doesn't fully utilize your TV.

Would I like it? Yes. But most of the content I already watch is only 720p or 1080i, and I'm happy with that quality.

I don't get comments like yours. Just because YOU are happy with 720p or 1080i doesn't mean OTHERS should be satisfied with the same.

The guy has a 1080p set. There are many sources of 1080p content. Even Apple allows 1080p renders of 1080p camcorder video via iMovie- just NO elegant way to get it from iTunes to a 1080p TV.

There are many, less elegant hardware answers to :apple:TV showing that that wish can be met at prices a lot less than the cost of :apple:TV. So Apple could clearly deliver on this popular wish, if they only had the will to do so. Just because they choose NOT to do so, doesn't mean their decision that handicapped 720p HD is "good enough" should make us Apple lovers agree with them.

I'm with the guy who wants an :apple:TV that can max out the HD standard. And I could care less if studio content at 1080p ever makes it into iTunes, or that bandwith pipes in the U.S. will ever be broad enough to deliver a quick download, etc (actually, I would like those things, but not if they are the justification for :apple:TV being "good enough" as is).

[Tres]

I don't get all the Apple TV hate? I use mine frequently, moreso since the iPhone remote app came out. I use it for video podcasts and Youtube, my parents use it for movie rentals and music.

[wordmunger]

Actually even more than that if you want HDMI with integrated audio. I refuse to run another cable and my current system (Sony HT-CT100) cannot do it anyway (audio must be in the hdmi stream).

Seriously. I had to totally smack my system around to get that to work. And if I really want it to be effective (e.g. buy TV shows and movies for it), I need to get a cordless keyboard/mouse -- at least another $80, plus a half-acre of coffee-table space. Or I could buy a purpose-built Apple TV for $230.

[andrew0122]

You guys do realize that Hulu has stated that they are going to become a pay for service next year? Now that being said if the price is low enough and they offer a higher quality than my HD Cable box actually giving my cable company the boot would be quite fun.

I too would like to see an updated Apple TV box as well though. And to think I was just about to sell my current 40GB on Amazon. . . Now I'll wait until 3.0 comes out and see what they have to offer. :rolleyes:

[BillyBobBongo]

I don't get all the Apple TV hate?

Me either, I love my Apple TV...it's a great product. Nice to see that there might be a software update coming soon.

[gnasher729]

Man there is a lot of hatred for the ATV man I love mine I use it all the time I have 2 of them and a mini serving them it's great. I have over 400 movies and 1200 tv shows all streaming in my house with no issues. People that have issues with ATV is because they have crap network gear and do not know how to troubleshoot. I stand by ATV as a product it's great for what it can do.

Seems to me that most people posting here either hate the Apple TV, or they use it.

[Billy Boo Bob]

Does anyone still use Apple TV? I mean with the new Mac Mini, Server or not, it can totally replace Apple TV.
Got a few hundred bucks to send my way so I can buy a Mini? I'd love to have one to put in place of my ATV, but not all of us have disposable income to spend on a Mini.

I use my ATV near daily, myself.

[bergmef]

Seems to me that most people posting here either hate the Apple TV, or they use it.

I'm shocked we never hear from the people that don't know the apple tv even exists :D:cool::rolleyes::p

[antoniojvr]

I would love to have an external Blu Ray (like the 360's HD DVD) that would plug into the back of the ATV. I do not know if USB has the bandwidth to carry picture and sound from a BR, but I would like it.

[wordmunger]

Seems to me that most people posting here either hate the Apple TV, or they use it.

Don't hate, don't use. Not completely happy with my Mini setup though, so thinking about switching to Apple TV. If it had a visualizer I'd probably get it. Though then my kids would kill me because they couldn't watch Hulu on our TV any more.

[rotlex]

Love my ATV, and always happy to hear about any new updates. With that said, there is ONE thing I would really like to see changed\implemented. That is it's photo viewing capabilities. I use it a LOT for that, and have it look at my Aperture library. Love it....but........

I HATE the way it shows all your projects and albums in a big, flat view, rather than a hierarchical, folder like structure. I've written to the Apple suggestion\input place about this, and really, really hope this changes sometime in the near future. My PS3, using media link, allows the viewing and browsing of my Aperture library in a very convenient way, laid out just like it looks in Aperture, so I can't understand why the ATV can't do this.

Yeah, I know, why not just use the PS3? Overall, other than the photo issues, I much prefer the ATV for everything except gaming\blu-ray of course! :)

[Tilpots]

If you have small children, being able to download the latest Mickey or other educational material or cartoon as the 'kid friendly' networks have decided that only early morning is available to watch a shows suitable to small children. We download and watch when the little one is stuck inside due to weather, etc. and pick what interests the them. Seems the 'networks' forgot about the children of the world and are gearing all timeslots at the older kids with their selections.



Exactly why the AppleTV needs a DVR.

[macadam212]

Seems to me that most people posting here either hate the Apple TV, or they use it.

Well put!

It's funny how many haters have never actually used the product before! :D

[DipDog3]

How about an update to the Apple TV

Like a hardware update?

[Michael73]

Last year I replaced a 1984 26" Mitsubishi tube TV and went all out getting a 52" Samsung LCD (120MHz, 1080p), high end 5.1 speaker system, Yamaha amp and a DVD/VCR recorder combo. At the same time we also got AT&T U-Verse. The only things left off the list were a blu-ray player and an :apple:TV.

My son has been begging for a game system (first it was a Wii then an xBox 360) for the holidays. I think with the introduction next week of the PS3 with a 250GB HD for $350 my blu-ray issue will be solved and he'll get what he gets...and like it.

That leaves the AppleTV. I keep holding out for a hardware refresh, but the truth is all my content is stored on drives in my MacPro. All I *really* need is an interface to stream stuff and for that any AppleTV will do.

Can anyone tell me with the A/V system I have and for the purposes I need, what any hardware refresh could do for me that I should hold out for?

[stagi]

I use my apple TV all the time and love it. Don't have cable anymore just purchase my shows through iTunes, anytime I want to watch a movie in my library it's right there at the click of a button. Why do some people hate on this product so much? It is simple but for me, perfect.

[jaw04005]

If 3.0 brings 720p at 30 FPS support like 2.0 brought 720p at 24 FPS support, I might even buy a second one.

The Apple TV is a fantastic device if you purchase it for what it is — an iTunes media streamer/iTunes Store gateway.

[kanon14]

Ok let me first say that I don't hate Apple TV. It's just that the product is kind of limited itself. As a media player, there are many file types it doesn't support right out of the box, and it forces you to use it with iTunes. I understand you can hack it to solve these two problems but that's not why people buy Apple products. We expect any Apple products to "just work." If I have to hack it to get it working the way I want it to then there are some cheaper alternatives who supports more formats right out of the box.

[Mudbug]

I enjoy mine. Use it to download and watch HD movies all the time. I haven't been to the video store in a LOOOONG time.

[TigerCliff]

I'm very happy to see reference to a 3.0 update. Apple TV is a great device and I've been waiting to get one for a long time... now, my home theater/stereo set up is ready for it. I was about to pull the trigger, but I think I'll wait another few weeks to see if the update actually comes. I'd love to see new hardware for it.

It's funny that there are "haters" for products like this. Not every product is designed for everyone. If this fits what you're looking for (an excellent media bridge / storage device ... serving music, video, and pics) then it's *exactly* what you're looking for. If you think an iMac is much better connected to the TV, you're probably looking for something else -- a "media center" computer with the computer functionality right there in your home theater. I'm personally not looking for that but go for it if you are.

[Stately]

Another bag of neglected hobby hardware hurt.

Funny, I always wondered what all the hype was really about involving the ATV. I guess not much? :confused:

[BeyondtheTech]

I hope 3.0 comes out with some significant changes, not just the iTunes LP feature.

I really detest the whole "let shove the iTunes Store down everyone's throat" GUI. I want to access my media without having to have the option sit at the bottom of the menu options. My media that I already have is more important than what iTunes has to offer me.

At least give us the option to change the UI as we would like. But asking for that is like asking for Folders to categorize the icons on my iPhone.

Add Hulu, Netflix, and/or other file formats and you're forgiven. How about Weather and Stocks? The device is always online, it's silly not to have some of those features. Add streaming radio!

And, yes, I've tried the ATVflash and it's just damn unstable. Keeps crashing my boxes, even with nothing on it - just the bare 2.4 kernel - so, that's out of the question.

[mambodancer]

I enjoy mine. Use it to download and watch HD movies all the time. I haven't been to the video store in a LOOOONG time.

What is this "video store" you speak of? Please post the URL so I can link to it...

[jaw04005]

As a media player, there are many file types it doesn't support right out of the box, and it forces you to use it with iTunes. I understand you can hack it to solve these two problems but that's not why people buy Apple products. We expect any Apple products to "just work."

The Apple TV plays all the file types iTunes offers to rip music and the iTunes Store offers to purchase content (TV Shows, Movies, etc).

Why would you expect it support anything else? If you wanted support for higher bit rate and resolution MPEG-4, I would understand. But there’s no way in hell Apple is ever going to let it playback MKV, AVI, WMV, DIVX and other formats that aren’t used in iTunes, on the iPod, on the iPhone or the iTunes Store.

I have never understood the file compatibility complaints about the Apple TV. You don’t see moaning and groaning that the iPhone doesn’t play back DIVX or WMV files.

This is the same ecosystem we’ve used for years, folks. Why would you expect the Apple TV be treated differently?

For the record, this is what it will support currently.

http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html

[tcoleman]

#1 1080i at least I would be much happier with 1080p. I am not going to get any device that doesn't fully utilize my TV. As I would know a version will.


Are you saying that 1080i is better than 720p? Doesn't Apple TV support the latter?

[supremedesigner]

I want a true apple tv. 47 inch 1080P LED LCD running at 240hz. Slap a mac mini inside. Now that is a sweet tv.

+1. Amen brother! Don't forget to include DVD slot too ;)

[zedsdead]

+1. Amen brother! Don't forget to include DVD slot too ;)

There would be no DVD slot...this is Apple remember (cost = if you have to ask, you cannot afford it)...though I'd probably buy it.

While I welcome the update (hopefully it address performance), the Apple TV SEVERELY needs new hardware. It has been unchanged (outside of the extra hard drive space) since it's introduction at the 2006 iPod Event when it was called the iTV.

For the record, I love my Apple TV (although I love more of what it can become becoming should Apple devote a little bit of energy to it).

[mcmlxix]

In the past ATV software updates have come in February and June.

Boxee and XBMC's interface blows and the content they access (especially Hulu!!!) streams poorly in comparison to ATV/iTunes Store content. I would be glad to never have to use them and revert solely to Apple software.

But this means 3.0 will A) need to support mounting external drives; B) enable access to more content and with the addition of an ad supported model (especially for TV content). If iTunes Store doesn't have the content (yet) then Apple should partner with third parties like Hulu and others; and c) internet radio at the minimum what can be accessed via iTunes.

Sadly I've heard that Hulu is dropping the ad supported model in 2010 and going entirely to a pay to view model.

PS. Yes, ATV is very useful for managing a large music collection, playlists, and slide shows on multiple devices with nothing more than a remote, and I use the remote that came with my TV (or iPod Touch) not that tic-tac that came with the ATV.

[blybug]

I use my Apple TV everyday. I've hacked it a couple of times to check out products such as aTV Flash, but have never been satisfied with others technology running on Apple TV and in fact my current Apple TV was reset back to Apple defaults and I haven't bothered to change it back in the last couple of months.

Is Apple TV perfect no, but if Apple was to open up its API it would over night become the best desktop set out there. Simply recompiling many of the apps created for the iPhone would work there.

I've thought about getting a new MacMini to replace my AppleTV, but since it doesn't have HDMI, I'll stick with what I have and eventually may make my Mac Pro become my media center at home.

I've been running atv4mac (http://www.macgeekblog.com/blog/archive/2008/03/25/atv4mac-1-2-available-2.html) on an mac mini running Tiger hooked up to my TV with a DVI->HDMI cable. Main reason being I can keep the :apple:tv's media on an external hard drive so all my content can be sync'ed (bonus: autobackup) and not limited buy the 160GB "real" :apple:tv. My main iTunes Library sees the mini as an :apple:tv when the atv4mac software is running. My family loves it, passes the kid and the wife test for ease of use accessing all their (ripped) movies, TV shows, family home movies, music, photos...all the :apple:TV hate I suspect comes from people who haven't used one.

As it turns out my :apple:tv-mini setup has allowed me to run the mini as a centralized server "underneath" the :apple:tv interface for all our computers to share documents, photos, and perform internal network backups followed by ongoing cloud backups to mozy.com. If the next :apple:tv revision incorporated some of these abilities (ie attachment of external drives, server and backup functions alá Time Machine, installation of "Mac" apps) I'd buy a real :apple:tv in one hot second. The atv4mac software has been stuck at :apple:tv 2.0.2 and I'd really like to get the new features, iPhone remote, Airtunes, and now iTunes LPs.

http://www.bly.cc/images/itunesappletv1tb.jpg

[spice weasel]

Can anyone tell me with the A/V system I have and for the purposes I need, what any hardware refresh could do for me that I should hold out for?

There are really only three hardware updates to the ATV to consider: 1) Blu-ray, 2) 1080p, and 3) larger hard drive. Point 1 ain't gonna happen. Points 2 and 3 are much more likely if there is a hardware update.

If you have 1080p content to stream to your ATV and if having it is important to you, then I guess you could wait. But there's no guarantee that's it's coming anytime soon.

[HobeSoundDarryl]

That leaves the AppleTV. I keep holding out for a hardware refresh, but the truth is all my content is stored on drives in my MacPro. All I *really* need is an interface to stream stuff and for that any AppleTV will do.

Can anyone tell me with the A/V system I have and for the purposes I need, what any hardware refresh could do for me that I should hold out for?

In summary, you have a 1080p TV, 5.1 surround, a MacPro for movie storage & streaming, and will soon have a BD player in that PS3.

I don't know about endorsing "waiting" for a next-gen :apple:TV, as the current one sure brings a lot of joy to a setup like yours- even with it's hardware limitations. For example, would you pay the price for:

easily pumping your itunes music library & playlists through the best speakers in your house?
having your digital photos in iPhoto readily available to show on the biggest screen in your house?
having free access to youtube and podcast video on the biggest screen in your house?
having an easy way to show all of your iTunes video (home movies, dvd rips, etc) on the biggest screen in your house?


In my case, almost any one of those justifies the price. Remember when a CD multi-changer cost $400+? Remember when digital picture frames cost $300+? Etc. If any of those are worth the cost of the current :apple:TV, go get one; you'll love it! It does all those very, very well, and several other bonus items too.

So why wait for next-gen hardware refresh? There's lots of popular wishes for a next-gen :apple:TV. I think the "big 10" are:

full 1080p HD capability- the current hardware is capped at a limited incarnation of 720p (just barely HD)
built-in BD player to kill 2 birds with one stone
built-in DVR functionality to kill 2 birds with one stone
open hardware expansion options (like normal USB) so that other hardware companies can offer add on functionality if Apple doesn't want to kill X birds with 1 stone.
open development/API/app store so that it can have widgets or iphone-like apps
full codec support (without hacks)- if Quicktime can play it, :apple:TV should be able to play it too
content source support beyond iTunes: netflix, hulu, etc
central server functionality so that it can store all your iTunes content in one place and all the computers in the house could draw from that 1 library
much greater internal storage options- probably a bigger box for 3.5" SATA drives, enabled (Apple-endorsed) external storage options, or network (don't have to leave my computer on all the time) storage options
more robust hardware (no UI stalls: quick, crisp, snappy)


I've been waiting for a next-gen :apple:TV with some of these features for a few years now, almost since I bought the :apple:TV I have. It is frustrating to see many cheaper boxes come out with some of these kinds of features, know that Apple could deliver them too but simply chooses not to (yet???), and so want to buy this product from Apple.

The fanboys come up with all kinds of misguided "Apple can do no wrong" logic to justify :apple:TV as is (U.S. bandwith can't handle 1080p downloads, where you going to store huge 1080p movie files, iTunes doesn't yet have 1080p downloads, the studios won't undercut BD business, Apple can only focus on one thing at a time, blah, blah, blah), but the reality is that Apple could deliver a next-gen that fulfills a lot of very popular BUYER wishes if they wanted to do so. Many less capable companies have put forth little :apple:TV-like boxes that show that it is technically possible- even easy- to deliver on some of these wishes. Apple has just lacked the will to make it happen (so far).

As an Apple fan, I'm confident they'll do it the best when they get around to it, but I have been waiting a LONG time for a next-gen :apple:TV. I wonder how much longer Apple will choose to stick with very dated hardware. Waiting for Apple to move on things other than Macs, iPhones and iPods can sometimes be like watching paint dry.

Next gen :apple:TV might launch today, or we might still be wishing another year from now. The current gen is pretty great, but my money waits for upgraded hardware suitable for 2010 standards.

[mambodancer]

Exactly why the AppleTV needs a DVR.

It will never happen. It won't happen because that presupposes that you still have cable or broadcast TV and want to setup up, schedule and record from that when the trend is more and more toward internet programming through Netflix, HULU, Joost, iTV, YouTube, etc. These sites are the next decades version of NBC, ABC, CBS and we happen to be caught in that paradigm shift that the old media networks, music & movie industries and cable companies are so resistant to. Their control over the content they want to produce and let you watch, when they want you to watch it, is slipping through their fingers as we move to the internet and streaming sites to watch shows when We want to watch them on the devices We want to view or hear them on.

I own a Miglia DVR and just haven't used it for time shifting. It now sits, gathering dust, used only to convert an old VHS video tape to digital format when I need to. Eventually, it will be disconnected and placed in a box or set outside with the garbage along with my VCR and laserdisc player when the last video tape I own has been converted or it eventually stops working.

If I could, I would decouple cable TV from my Internet service and never be bothered with commercial television delivered in sequential (time based) form again. Unfortunately, Comcast imposes a penalty for doing this, so it remains, a mostly unused service until Comcast realizes that more and more people are disconnecting from cable and switching to iTV.

Netflix, Hulu, Joost and the like allow me to watch the shows on my schedule. iTunes, Amazon and Google allow me to download and keep the shows I might like to rewatch or to move from aTV to Computer to iPod, etc.

Frankly, why go to the trouble to DVR a show if that show is available as a free stream somewhere on the internet unless it is not yet available as a digital download? I use HULU subscriptions to setup up notifications when new episodes of certain shows are available. These are then emailed to me and I can watch them on my schedule. I am sure most of the people here are all familiar with HULU Desktop, Plex, etc.

We really aren't that far away having all the features and more of a HW DVR on an internet connected computer.

[mdntcallr]

I love my Apple TV, but i am happy a new update is coming.

that said, it is time for Apple to open up the product and upgrade it significantly.

Apple TV ought to have:
1- larger hard drive. 160gb just isnt enough anymore. especially when alot of us encode our CD's at higher bit rates.
2- open up the platform to outside content players: Netflix on Demand, Amazon on Demand, Blockbuster, Hulu, iptv
3- add an APP store so you can custom deck out your Apple TV, add Wii equivilent games to it.

Many of us love our Apple TV's and find they very useful. which is why this product has become an unsung hero for many Apple consumers, it may not be racking up alot of PR, but for example Apple TV sales at the start of 2009 were up 3x over the same period the year before. that means that its sales are picking up.

If Apple really opened it up... my bet is sales would jump 10-20x

who wouldn't like to watch netflix HD streaming, rent movies from Amazon, Apple Itunes and more.

let the consumers find the content they want, iTunes store doesn't have everything and it is great to let consumers try out subscription models like Netflix.

[mambodancer]

I love my Apple TV, but i am happy a new update is coming.

that said, it is time for Apple to open up the product and upgrade it significantly.

Apple TV ought to have:
1- larger hard drive. 160gb just isnt enough anymore. especially when alot of us encode our CD's at higher bit rates.
2- open up the platform to outside content players: Netflix on Demand, Amazon on Demand, Blockbuster, Hulu, iptv
3- add an APP store so you can custom deck out your Apple TV, add Wii equivilent games to it.

Many of us love our Apple TV's and find they very useful. which is why this product has become an unsung hero for many Apple consumers, it may not be racking up alot of PR, but for example Apple TV sales at the start of 2009 were up 3x over the same period the year before. that means that its sales are picking up.

If Apple really opened it up... my bet is sales would jump 10-20x

who wouldn't like to watch netflix HD streaming, rent movies from Amazon, Apple Itunes and more.

let the consumers find the content they want, iTunes store doesn't have everything and it is great to let consumers try out subscription models like Netflix.

I agree. Integrate Netflix and internet TV sites like Hulu and you have an even better device. You do get all of these and more with the aTV mod (including the ability to connect an external hard drive to the usb port to expand the storage capacity of the basic device) but I would like to see these supported natively from apple.

[mrowl]

A pointless update for a pointless product.

My family and I use it every day. Not pointless around my house.

[GeekLawyer]

Seems to me that most people posting here either hate the Apple TV, or they use it.I think you're on to something.

I've had my 40GB AppleTV since Day One. It still feels like magic to me when I use it. All of my music, photos, ripped TV shows and movies at my fingertips whenever I want. Video podcasts, to me, are the killer feature. Who needs cable?

Storage is unimportant to me since I stream everything from my NAS. The only wish-list item for me is some kind of integration with Hulu and other IPTV sources (but I'm not holding my breath). 720P looks great on my 42" Plasma. My Blu-ray player delivers higher-res movies and Netflix streaming.

[Dysfnctnl85]

For those of you with AppleTVs, and I'm just curious here, have you ever used Plex (http://www.plexapp.com/)?

Maybe I'm just not thinking clearly, but is there anything the AppleTV does that Plex can't do?

While it's not the most convenient thing in the world (and if I purchased a Mac Mini it would just always be connected to my TV), I hook up my MBP to my TV and watch Hulu, anything in my iTunes, all of my MKV files, etc.

Thoughts?

[FaasNat]

Hopefully this update will address the issue that bugs me the most. In each of the submenus, the majority of the choices takes you to the iTunes Store. I'd rather have all that point to my library (at the current state, it's at the bottom) and just one selection that says Music/Movies/TV Store.

Bugged me enough to not get the AppleTV.

[pmjoe]

So much of what is wrong with Apple TV could be fixed with a real software update ... but I'm not holding my breath that 3.0 is going to do any of it. There is a list of features a mile long that should be added.

The rest of what is wrong with Apple TV could be fixed by the addition of hardware support for 1080p.

[iOrlando]

i would be very happy if apple introduced apple tv apps..

so for example, Revision3 can create an app that simply lets its videos play on your TV through apple tv. I can stop using the buggy and poor UI of boxee.

espn.com..same thing
cnn.com

i know the whole hulu vs cable industry fight might complicate this...but if espn.com has game summary videos available on its website, I dont see why there would be a huge battle just streaming that to your TV through the app.

[Michael73]

In summary, you have a 1080p TV, 5.1 surround, a MacPro for movie storage & streaming, and will soon have a BD player in that PS3.

So why wait for next-gen hardware refresh? There's lots of popular wishes for a next-gen :apple:TV. I think the "big 10" are:

full 1080p HD capability- the current hardware is capped at a limited incarnation of 720p (just barely HD)



Can someone clarify this? If a movie has been ripped that's HD or I've shot video on an HD camcorder both of which are at 1080i or 1080p and that content has been imported into my iTunes library, am I unable to stream it to the AppleTV? Or, will it stream but somehow translated on the fly and outputted at only 720p?

[locust76]

Can someone clarify this? If a movie has been ripped that's HD or I've shot video on an HD camcorder both of which are at 1080i or 1080p and that content has been imported into my iTunes library, am I unable to stream it to the AppleTV? Or, will it stream but somehow translated on the fly and outputted at only 720p?

No, Apple TV can process at most 720p video. 1080 videos simply won't be synced, and they cannot be streamed.

[MightyB]

Can someone clarify this? If a movie has been ripped that's HD or I've shot video on an HD camcorder both of which are at 1080i or 1080p and that content has been imported into my iTunes library, am I unable to stream it to the AppleTV? Or, will it stream but somehow translated on the fly and outputted at only 720p?

If itunes can play it (without a plugin, 3rd party), appleTV can play it.

[spice weasel]

I agree. Integrate Netflix and internet TV sites like Hulu and you have an even better device. You do get all of these and more with the aTV mod (including the ability to connect an external hard drive to the usb port to expand the storage capacity of the basic device) but I would like to see these supported natively from apple.

Not going to happen. The ATV is not just a media extender, it's an Apple iTMS media extender. At least that's how Apple sees it. So forget any officially supported software or hardware updates that incorporate the ability to get content from anyone other than Apple. That means no additional codecs, no Blu-ray, no DVR, and, until iTMS goes 1080p, no "full-HD."

[cmendill]

For those of you with AppleTVs, and I'm just curious here, have you ever used Plex (http://www.plexapp.com/)?

Maybe I'm just not thinking clearly, but is there anything the AppleTV does that Plex can't do?

While it's not the most convenient thing in the world (and if I purchased a Mac Mini it would just always be connected to my TV), I hook up my MBP to my TV and watch Hulu, anything in my iTunes, all of my MKV files, etc.

Thoughts?

Because doing that, as you said, isn't the most convenient thing in the world. Plus it occupies your laptop while you are watching TV. Also, ATV interfaces with iTunes, so iTunes can be the sole way in which your organize all of your media for all of your devices -- TV included (not that I think itunes is the best).

That said, Plex and Boxee both offer web content that is not available on ATV -- which is very nice.

I am hoping some day for a true seemless integration of web and local content. I think the best way to do this would be to build an ATV App Store, just like the iPhone. The providers can manage their own content and it gives them an easy way to get it on the ATV.

This requires Apple to take some initiative and change the way we watch tv, and not just by adapting the iTunes music store model to video -- which is inherently the wrong solution.

[spice weasel]

For those of you with AppleTVs, and I'm just curious here, have you ever used Plex (http://www.plexapp.com/)?

Maybe I'm just not thinking clearly, but is there anything the AppleTV does that Plex can't do?

While it's not the most convenient thing in the world (and if I purchased a Mac Mini it would just always be connected to my TV), I hook up my MBP to my TV and watch Hulu, anything in my iTunes, all of my MKV files, etc.

Thoughts?

Plex is great, but now you're talking a full-fledged computer to run it, not just an inexpensive ATV. I don't think that anyone would argue that a Mac mini provides a better HTPC experience than an ATV. The issue is cost.

[dloomer]

For those of you with AppleTVs, and I'm just curious here, have you ever used Plex (http://www.plexapp.com/)?

Maybe I'm just not thinking clearly, but is there anything the AppleTV does that Plex can't do?

While it's not the most convenient thing in the world (and if I purchased a Mac Mini it would just always be connected to my TV), I hook up my MBP to my TV and watch Hulu, anything in my iTunes, all of my MKV files, etc.

Thoughts?

I like Plex. It's engineered specifically for Leopard so it runs fast and looks pretty. It integrates very well with your iTunes music library. The plugin architecture (very similar to Boxee's) is great -- as one examples it let me watch mlb.tv in HD with a 10-foot interface.

But for me personally, the following prevents Plex from being a viable AppleTV replacement:

* No AirTunes integration
* No 10-foot interface to iTunes store to rent movies, etc.
* Poor integration with my iTunes non-music content (depends on folder structure rather than metadata), and inability to play iTunes Store-purchased videos.

[dloomer]

Plex is great, but now you're talking a full-fledged computer to run it, not just an inexpensive ATV. I don't think that anyone would argue that a Mac mini provides a better HTPC experience than an ATV. The issue is cost.

Again, this is just personal for my own needs, but for me the Mac Mini doesn't provide the HTPC experience I need.

Pros (vs. Apple TV):
* Much better hardware, can play and stream HD content (AppleTV doesn't stream HD content over the internet, and if you install Boxee even non-HD content like Hulu plays poorly)
* DVD slot

Cons (vs. Apple TV):
* Front Row really sucks compared to Apple TV. No AirTunes Integration, no 10-foot interface to iTunes Store (so this is two cons)
* Third-party 10-foot solutions such as Boxee and Plex are nice, but are still lacking (see my Plex post above)

For me, the cons outweigh the pros. I reluctantly go with a Mac Mini attached to one of my TVs, and somewhat less reluctantly go with the AppleTV on the other. Somehow the best of both worlds need to be brought together, but I'm not holding my breath.

[blybug]

I like Plex. It's engineered specifically for Leopard so it runs fast and looks pretty. It integrates very well with your iTunes music library. The plugin architecture (very similar to Boxee's) is great -- as one examples it let me watch mlb.tv in HD with a 10-foot interface.

But for me personally, the following prevents Plex from being a viable AppleTV replacement:

* No AirTunes integration
* No 10-foot interface to iTunes store to rent movies, etc.
* Poor integration with my iTunes non-music content (depends on folder structure rather than metadata), and inability to play iTunes Store-purchased videos.

Yeah, just tried messing around with it and so far kinda disappointed. It looks pretty, that's for sure, but frustrated by the "setup". Don't like how it deals (or more accurately, doesn't deal) with iTunes video content. Picks up the Music Library just fine, but Plex is largely meant to be a video app, right? Why doesn't it automatically pick up my perfectly iTunes-organized TV shows and Movies? I have to point it to the folder structure and even then it doesn't display the metadata or organize very nicely, especially with the multi-nested Media Folder setup of iTunes 9. This won't pass the kid/wife test.

Was excited to see a TiVo plugin...but can't get past the entering of my TiVo media key. Doesn't seem to find my TiVo...I have other apps that can do this so wonder what the problem with the Plex plugin is...

[colinmack]

i would be very happy if apple introduced apple tv apps..

so for example, Revision3 can create an app that simply lets its videos play on your TV through apple tv. I can stop using the buggy and poor UI of boxee.

espn.com..same thing
cnn.com

i know the whole hulu vs cable industry fight might complicate this...but if espn.com has game summary videos available on its website, I dont see why there would be a huge battle just streaming that to your TV through the app.

Agree - I have two Apple TVs, some of the later comments in the thread are much more on target with where it can actually be a runaway product, none of this DVR/Bluray noise from people that don't get it.

1080p will probably come as part of a standard hardware refresh cycle anyway, and will quiet the spec-focused...not that they felt the need to jump up and down about the overly-compressed 720p HD cable feeds from their HD set-top boxes - but whatever, I'm sure that's completely different :rolleyes:

Otherwise, app integration is key - it allows the device to be extended into so much more of a 'platform' than it currently is (live sports/news via a dedicated app, simple games, widgets like weather/stocks, etc.), and with the success of the iTunes app store on the iPhone, it's hard to imagine that they couldn't pull it off easily and keep it under control.

As far as Bluray drives and DVRs - it's like complaining that the Airport Express with AirTunes doesn't have a built-in CD player or cassette deck when using it to listen to music. If you're making that argument, you very simply don't understand what the Apple TV is intended to do, and where the industry is headed.

It's exactly like that Henry Ford quote: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

People asking for Bluray drives and DVRs want faster horses. The rest of us want cars. Of course, you probably all want cars too, you just don't know it yet ;)

[dloomer]

I've been running atv4mac (http://www.macgeekblog.com/blog/archive/2008/03/25/atv4mac-1-2-available-2.html) on an mac mini running Tiger hooked up to my TV with a DVI->HDMI cable. Main reason being I can keep the :apple:tv's media on an external hard drive so all my content can be sync'ed (bonus: autobackup) and not limited buy the 160GB "real" :apple:tv. My main iTunes Library sees the mini as an :apple:tv when the atv4mac software is running. My family loves it, passes the kid and the wife test for ease of use accessing all their (ripped) movies, TV shows, family home movies, music, photos...all the :apple:TV hate I suspect comes from people who haven't used one.

As it turns out my :apple:tv-mini setup has allowed me to run the mini as a centralized server "underneath" the :apple:tv interface for all our computers to share documents, photos, and perform internal network backups followed by ongoing cloud backups to mozy.com. If the next :apple:tv revision incorporated some of these abilities (ie attachment of external drives, server and backup functions alá Time Machine, installation of "Mac" apps) I'd buy a real :apple:tv in one hot second. The atv4mac software has been stuck at :apple:tv 2.0.2 and I'd really like to get the new features, iPhone remote, Airtunes, and now iTunes LPs.

I would be really interested in a solution that brings the latest AppleTV software to a regular Mac. Whether it be ATV4Mac or booting the AppleTV OS -- I've tried both, and haven't been satisfied with the results.

I'm grateful to the hackers who have brought it this far, but really frustrated at their lack of persistence. I've seen posts saying they've gotten one solution or the other working with AppleTV 2.4 software, and then a paragraph down there's a "minor" disclaimer like they couldn't sync it with iTunes or whatever -- and then they seem to just give up. I know it must be possible! There must just be a very small number of us for whom it's actually important ...

[GottaLoveApple4]

Since iTunes LP and Extras are built using webkit, isn't it possible to think that apple is going to add safari as well? If they have all the frameworks then why not? That's why I believe it took them so long to add the lp and extras features because it will encorporate a browser too.

[jayducharme]

I want a true apple tv. 47 inch 1080P LED LCD running at 240hz. Slap a mac mini inside. Now that is a sweet tv.

We're almost at that point: if the new 27" wall-mountable quad-core iMac keeps growing, there will finally be that long-rumored convergence device. For now, I'm content with a 27" screen and an EyeTV.

[StickNutzman]

It's exactly like that Henry Ford quote: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

People asking for Bluray drives and DVRs want faster horses. The rest of us want cars. Of course, you probably all want cars too, you just don't know it yet ;)

Absolutely agree here. I recently purchased a 160GB ATV with the recent price drop at $200 from Amazon. Combined with an EyeTV and Handbrake, we were able to cancel cable and save $60 a month. The only reason I pull DVDs off the shelf anymore is to rip them to the ATV. The device is perfect for me, my wife can use it no problem, and the sky is the limit for what Apple could do in the future to upstage cable TV and physical media. For me, throwing $200 to use the device right now also lets Apple know that demand for the device is there. When they update the hardware, I'll take all the cash I saved from dumping cable and buy the new one. :)

[mambodancer]

For those of you with AppleTVs, and I'm just curious here, have you ever used Plex (http://www.plexapp.com/)?

Maybe I'm just not thinking clearly, but is there anything the AppleTV does that Plex can't do?

While it's not the most convenient thing in the world (and if I purchased a Mac Mini it would just always be connected to my TV), I hook up my MBP to my TV and watch Hulu, anything in my iTunes, all of my MKV files, etc.

Thoughts?

I really wanted to like Plex but after downloading the most recent version it just wouldn't work. Also, adding content is counter intuitive and not very easy to set up. You need to go to the "Watch Videos" menu to add Movies and TV? Why not just call it "Add Content" or something?

[jeffbass2x]

I'm about to make a plunge into the world of Mac with a new core i7 iMac and was looking into my options for media streaming. Could someone tell me why I should choose ATV over something like a PS3 with Medialink? More storage, 1080p, Blueray player, plus full iLife integration...and the ability to play games (even though I'm not much of a gamer). I don't see how a software update could make ATV a better option.

http://www.nullriver.com/products/medialink

I forgot to mention PS3 is a Netflix ready device.

http://www.netflix.com/NetflixReadyDevicesDetails?pdid=105&lnkce=nrd-d&trkid=1456898&lnkctr=nrd-d-n-105-playstation3system

[Tilpots]

It will never happen. It won't happen because that presupposes that you still have cable or broadcast TV and want to setup up, schedule and record from that when the trend is more and more toward internet programming through Netflix, HULU, Joost, iTV, YouTube, etc. These sites are the next decades version of NBC, ABC, CBS and we happen to be caught in that paradigm shift that the old media networks, music & movie industries and cable companies are so resistant to.

That's laughable. The only things Netflix and the like do is redistribute the major networks' content. If those companies go away, buh-bye content.

Netflix, Hulu, Joost and the like allow me to watch the shows on my schedule. iTunes, Amazon and Google allow me to download and keep the shows I might like to rewatch or to move from aTV to Computer to iPod, etc.


You just described the functions of a DVR.:rolleyes:


As far as Bluray drives and DVRs - it's like complaining that the Airport Express with AirTunes doesn't have a built-in CD player or cassette deck when using it to listen to music. If you're making that argument, you very simply don't understand what the Apple TV is intended to do, and where the industry is headed.

It's exactly like that Henry Ford quote: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

People asking for Bluray drives and DVRs want faster horses. The rest of us want cars. Of course, you probably all want cars too, you just don't know it yet ;)

You simply don't understand the argument. "Faster horses?" Please. Blu-Ray and DVR technologies are readily available. No need to reinvent the horse.;)


That AppleTV should be called an "iTunes Storefront" NOT a "Media Extender."
What if your iPod only played iTunes content?

[bpapa]

Does anyone still use Apple TV? I mean with the new Mac Mini, Server or not, it can totally replace Apple TV.

Agreed! They are the same price and everything!

Oh wait.

[mambodancer]

Not going to happen. The ATV is not just a media extender, it's an Apple iTMS media extender. At least that's how Apple sees it. So forget any officially supported software or hardware updates that incorporate the ability to get content from anyone other than Apple. That means no additional codecs, no Blu-ray, no DVR, and, until iTMS goes 1080p, no "full-HD."

Maybe...but then Audible is built into iTunes already. As far as full HD, there is every indication that this will be coming in the next year of two. Personally, my guess is for 2010.

[mambodancer]

That's laughable. The only things Netflix and the like do is redistribute the major networks' content. If those companies go away, buh-bye content.

You just described the functions of a DVR.:rolleyes


That AppleTV should be called an "iTunes Storefront" NOT a "Media Extender."
What if your iPod only played iTunes content?

•Which is exactly what Comcast and other cable companies do - redistribute network content. It is possible that existing networks may go away but it will not mean that there will not be content to distribute over whatever network or distribution channel there might be in the future. My point was that Google, Netflix and Hulu are todays ABC, NBC & CBS. (Quite literally in the case of HULU) It really wont be long before they start producing their own content and/or independent artists and producers begin to distribute their products on the internet first. I suspect we are very close to this happening soon.

•Which is why you do not need that function built into the hardware or to buy it as an add-on. I think you missed my point about having these features already in the form of a virtual DVR.

•I think you meant "iTunes STORE content"

[Bevz]

Looking forward to software version 3!! Hopefully it'll be a proper update that breaths new life into the old dog.... Finger crossed for friday!

[blybug]

That AppleTV should be called an "iTunes Storefront" NOT a "Media Extender."
What if your iPod only played iTunes content?
My :apple:TV contains over 300 movies, 1000 TV show episodes, 400 home movies, 15000 songs, and 12000 photos. Some of the music was purchased from the iTunes store, the remainder of the content is from non-iTunes sources (CDs, DVDs or my own personal creation).

Yes, you have to be willing to take the time to rip your DVDs with Handbrake for the :apple:TV to use non-iTunes content, but this is the analogous process as getting non-iTunes music from your CDs to your iPod. Having said that, the :apple:TV would be a worthwhile gadget to me if I used it only for my music, home video footage, and photo slide shows. The fact that I can get my video content off discs and have it all readily accessible in such an intuitive format for me and the family is a bonus.

[seamer]

I use my ATV's probably a good 12 hours/day with all my music/tv/movies available.

The only drawback is the stupid wifi streaming bug, but that's a minor blemish on what's an otherwise awesome product.

[BeyondtheTech]

Seems to me that most people posting here either hate the Apple TV, or they use it.

Interesting observation. Isn't that like saying, "seems to be that people here are either men or women?"

[locust76]

Interesting observation. Isn't that like saying, "seems to be that people here are either men or women?"

Not really... it's more like "the people who hate Apple TV haven't used it"

[rogerm]

I love it and use it everyday. In fact, I can't imagine not having one anymore.

[blybug]

Interesting observation. Isn't that like saying, "seems to be that people here are either men or women?"

Not exactly. I think the implication was that those who hate it haven't actually used it.

[Tilpots]

My :apple:TV contains over 300 movies, 1000 TV show episodes, 400 home movies, 15000 songs, and 12000 photos. Some of the music was purchased from the iTunes store, the remainder of the content is from non-iTunes sources (CDs, DVDs or my own personal creation).


So you broke the law about 16300 times? Thanks for sharing.

[GeekLawyer]

So you broke the law about 16300 times? Thanks for sharing.I see how you arrived at the number, but I don't see any evidence from his post about subverting copyright law in gathering his source material. Placing CD tracks in iTunes is unquestionably in the clear. Ripping DVDs (that you own) is a gray area, but I think it will ultimately be fine, from a legal perspective.

[OllyW]

So you broke the law about 16300 times? Thanks for sharing.

It's not illegal to rip your music CDs to iTunes.

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Can someone clarify this? If a movie has been ripped that's HD or I've shot video on an HD camcorder both of which are at 1080i or 1080p and that content has been imported into my iTunes library, am I unable to stream it to the AppleTV? Or, will it stream but somehow translated on the fly and outputted at only 720p?

1080i or 1080p MP4 content will go into and play in iTunes just fine (on decently powered computer hardware). It will not sync or stream to :apple:TV.

It is not translated on the fly, nor downscaled to 720p.

If you want that content on :apple:TV you have to choose to render it for :apple:TV, which generally means that it is rendered at something like 960 x 540, cutting the 1920 x 1080p resolution in half. This still looks pretty good- better than DVD- but it is cutting your source video in half in both width and height to support :apple:TV playback.

You can also render it to :apple:TVs version of 720p, though I'm yet to find settings that will play back 1080p camcorder video renders to :apple:TV 720p without a lot of jitter when the camera is panning. 720 resolution at 24p at about 6Mbps max is just not enough (what I would call barely HD).

[blybug]

So you broke the law about 16300 times? Thanks for sharing.
Weren't you the one who posted about "What if your iPod could only play iTunes content?" What are you talking about if not ripped CDs, which is perfectly legitimate?
I see how you arrived at the number, but I don't see any evidence from his post about subverting copyright law in gathering his source material. Placing CD tracks in iTunes is unquestionably in the clear. Ripping DVDs (that you own) is a gray area, but I think it will ultimately be fine, from a legal perspective.

Yeah, I know the video thing is a little gray and people can be smug about it. But I figure if I've got the DVD disc safely packed up in a box in my basement and I want a digitized copy of it on my :apple:TV for my own personal use in my own house, I can sleep OK at night.

[Macinposh]

Wishlist :



A) Movie Rentals/Purchases.
B) Movie Rentals/Purchases.
C) Movie Rentals/Purchases.





And movie rentals could be nice as well.

[HobeSoundDarryl]

If itunes can play it (without a plugin, 3rd party), appleTV can play it.

While that's popularly tossed about, it is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. You can render 1080p camcorder video as Apple-endorsed MP4 with something as simple as iMovie. It will import and play in iTunes. But it can't even get sent to :apple:TV, nor does it appear likely that existing :apple:TV hardware could play it back (even if it could get sent there).

iTunes is much more capable than :apple:TV. Quicktime which is at the root of both iTunes and :apple:TV is much more capable than either, but Apple chooses to handicap what iTunes will play in spite of what Quicktime can do (in total), and further handicap what :apple:TV can play in spite of what iTunes will play (in total).

My thinking is that the device hooked to the biggest screen in the house, probably hooked to the best quality speakers in the house, controllable by what is probably the best remote control in the house, should probably be the most robust & capable bit of kit for what it does in the house. Now if only Apple would decide that :apple:TV should push the limits of Quicktime, rather than arbitrarily choosing to make it the weakest link in the whole chain.

[BeyondtheTech]

Not really... it's more like "the people who hate Apple TV haven't used it"

I don't know of one Apple TV owner who hates their device, and I know quite a few people that own one. Most people would have figured out that they don't want it in the first 10 or 14 days, which would only result in a 10% restocking fee (if any, given the lenience of an Apple Store Manager) when returning it.

You know what would be really cool, but a weird request? Supporting VPN or some other similar concept. My in-laws are novices on their crappy computer, but I bought them an Apple TV, which they like. But, they rely on me to manually sync the foreign movies (and other movies not available via iTunes Store) that I get for them, either by coming over with a flash drive, or remoting in, or using SuperSync to selectively match up my library with theirs. It would be nice if their Apple TV (that they are very familiar to operate) would be able to reach, not just over the internet to the iTunes Store, but to another machine in another home, running iTunes that would stream out the video at will.

I guess it would be sort of like Flickr, but for movies and videos, or like a private YouTube channel, something with MobileMe, or maybe just linking to one iTunes account... I dunno...

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Because doing that, as you said, isn't the most convenient thing in the world. Plus it occupies your laptop while you are watching TV. Also, ATV interfaces with iTunes, so iTunes can be the sole way in which your organize all of your media for all of your devices -- TV included (not that I think itunes is the best).

That said, Plex and Boxee both offer web content that is not available on ATV -- which is very nice.

I am hoping some day for a true seemless integration of web and local content. I think the best way to do this would be to build an ATV App Store, just like the iPhone. The providers can manage their own content and it gives them an easy way to get it on the ATV.

This requires Apple to take some initiative and change the way we watch tv, and not just by adapting the iTunes music store model to video -- which is inherently the wrong solution.

You are EXACTLY right. And your last paragraph nails the whole issue (not just the Plex option).

[blackpond]

This is welcome news.

Here's to hoping for free, or reduced cost ad supported content based on the new patent filing last week...

;)

[Tilpots]

I see how you arrived at the number, but I don't see any evidence from his post about subverting copyright law in gathering his source material. Placing CD tracks in iTunes is unquestionably in the clear. Ripping DVDs (that you own) is a gray area, but I think it will ultimately be fine, from a legal perspective.


It's not illegal to rip your music CDs to iTunes.

Can you guys post links to support this. I've been looking, but I can't find anything definitive. Especially not for a circumstance like the AppleTV, where files need to be on a shared network. Not trying to get on a high horse here, I've gotten thousands of songs ripped myself, but the law's the law so please clarify...

[HobeSoundDarryl]

It's exactly like that Henry Ford quote: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

Sure if you want to take the "Apple is right, BUYERS are wrong" stance. Didn't Ford also get credited with something like "They can have any color of car they want, as long as it is black"? If we accept that maybe BUYERS can imagine what they want, perhaps that Ford quote better applies to this situation?

People asking for Bluray drives and DVRs want faster horses. The rest of us want cars. Of course, you probably all want cars too, you just don't know it yet ;)

Or, people want a more "future proof" :apple:TV solution that is a good match for what the playback device- their TV- can handle today (and yesterday). We can spend about the same cost that Apple asked for :apple:TV to get a BD box that can play our movies back at much higher quality than what :apple:TV can yield. Some of those boxes also have some :apple:TV features (albeit generally more poorly implemented) and some coveted :apple:TV features NOT available.

I don't really want a BD player in the next-gen, but many BUYERS would BUY if they could kill both birds with one stone. I don't really want DVR functionality in the next gen, but many BUYERS would BUY if they could kill those 2 birds with one stone. Based on other hardware in the marketplace, it is OBVIOUS that Apple could deliver on both of these wants and probably leave :apple:TV pricing about where it is IF THEY WANTED TO DO THAT.

Or, they could try to make us want any color of car as long as it is black, and NOT win those BUYERS who are waiting for the feature(s) they want. Even Ford came around eventually (and perhaps he learned that insulting his market's intelligence with "only WE know what you want to buy" is not necessarily the best attitude for maximizing the sales of his products).

[4mat]

Wirelessly posted (SAMSUNG-SGH-A821/1.0 SHP/VPP/R5 NetFront/3.4 SMM-MMS/1.2.0 profile/MIDP-2.0 configuration/CLDC-1.1)

I see the AppleTV being very similar to early iPods: insufficient capacity, basic features and innitially low adoption within the market. Now remember how the iPod evolved: hardware had incremental step-ups in storage with interm software updates, slowly added new features (colour screens, radio via inline radio remote, photos, video, and remember those clickwheel iPod games).

AppleTV already has a few advantages that iPod didn't: a mature iTunes store, a way to connect to the store out of the box without having to go via a computer, and finally the Apple brand as it is today. there aren't many households without at least one product from Apple

[Marvin1379]

Safari please!!!!

[colinmack]

You simply don't understand the argument. "Faster horses?" Please. Blu-Ray and DVR technologies are readily available. No need to reinvent the horse.;)

I understand your argument perfectly, but I think you just demonstrated that you don't understand mine.

We all know that Blu-ray and DVR technology exists, so did horses back then. Instead of building a device that ties together 'old technology' (what the hell's wrong with my horse you darn whipper-snappers, it goes plenty fast enough, now get off my lawn), Apple is simply betting that physical media and cable distribution are eventually on the way out, and they've determined that it's strategically in their best interest to try and accelerate and capitalize on it.

You can debate the timing, you can debate the current model/economics around bandwidth, net neutrality, buy-in and content availability from the studios/networks, advertising revenue sources, etc...but it will happen. And given Apple's domination of this same transformation around music distribution (despite similar arguments at the time that turned out to be completely off-base), I'm comfortable with the odds that they're on the right side of the argument.

I personally think the Apple TVs biggest problem is that it's a few years too soon for what it's really good at.

[pmjoe]

I'm about to make a plunge into the world of Mac with a new core i7 iMac and was looking into my options for media streaming. Could someone tell me why I should choose ATV over something like a PS3 with Medialink? More storage, 1080p, Blueray player, plus full iLife integration...and the ability to play games (even though I'm not much of a gamer). I don't see how a software update could make ATV a better option.

XrossMediaBar(XMB) is just an awful interface. I was really hoping Sony would throw it out with their 3.0 and add better media integration, but they think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. In general, the PS3 A/V media menus are pretty minimal in what you can do. While you can go to the web browser and do pretty much anything, it's not effortless by any means, and the browser does not start up instantly when you need it either. If someone was web development handy, they could probably put together a nice PS3 customized GUI to do plenty of cool things (but you'd still have to futz around with getting the browser started up).

Hardware-wise the PS3 is a far more capable device.

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Wirelessly posted (SAMSUNG-SGH-A821/1.0 SHP/VPP/R5 NetFront/3.4 SMM-MMS/1.2.0 profile/MIDP-2.0 configuration/CLDC-1.1)

I see the AppleTV being very similar to early iPods: insufficient capacity, basic features and innitially low adoption within the market. Now remember how the iPod evolved: hardware had incremental step-ups in storage with interm software updates, slowly added new features (colour screens, radio via inline radio remote, photos, video, and remember those clickwheel iPod games).

AppleTV already has a few advantages that iPod didn't: a mature iTunes store, a way to connect to the store out of the box without having to go via a computer, and finally the Apple brand as it is today. there aren't many households without at least one product from Apple

I know my fellow Mac lovers won't love this, but iPod didn't really pop until the iTunes ran on Windows. It wasn't incremental hardware/software enhances that did the trick; it was giving a much BIGGER market of hungry BUYERS what they wanted. That's what I think is lacking with :apple:TV; it is not- in its current form- a match to the mainstream CE market. If it had a few relatively minor enhancements, it would quickly leap to the front of the pack, get the "BUZZ" and have broader market acceptance.

Right now, every time its covered in the press, it seems the shortcomings are the story, relative to the typical Apple dazzle. Read/watch what the world says about Macs and iPhones/iPods vs. stories about :apple:TV. The former are often billed as best-in-class, and the latter is not.

[severe]

I love my :apple:TV. I've hacked the hell out of it, but I use it often and would not want to part with it. Couldn't imagine not having it, actually.

[iOrlando]

YEAHH...i mean boo


Enjoy iTunes Extras, iTunes LP & Genius Mixes on Your HD TV


CUPERTINO, Calif., Oct. 29 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Apple® today introduced new Apple TV® 3.0 software featuring a redesigned main menu that makes navigating your favorite content simpler and faster, and makes enjoying the largest selection of on-demand HD movie rentals and purchases, HD TV shows, music and podcasts from the iTunes® Store even better on your TV. You can now enjoy iTunes Extras and iTunes LP in stunning fullscreen with your Apple TV, as well as listen to Genius Mixes and Internet radio through your home theater system. The new Apple TV software is available immediately free of charge to existing Apple TV owners, and Apple TV with 160GB capacity is available for just $229.


"The new software for Apple TV features a simpler and faster interface that gives you instant access to your favorite content," said Eddy Cue, Apple's vice president of Internet Services. "HD movies and HD TV shows from iTunes have been a huge hit with Apple TV customers, and with Apple TV 3.0 they get great new features including iTunes Extras, Genius Mixes and Internet radio."


The redesigned main menu on Apple TV gives you instant access to your favorite content. Recently rented or purchased movies, as well as other content including TV shows, music, podcasts, photos and YouTube, are accessible directly from the new main menu. The new software also allows Apple TV users to enjoy stunning fullscreen iTunes Extras and iTunes LP, including great new movie titles such as "Star Trek" or classics like "The Wizard of Oz" and albums such as Taylor Swift's "Fearless (Platinum Edition)" and Jack Johnson's "En Concert." iTunes Extras gives movie fans great additional content such as deleted scenes, interviews and interactive galleries. iTunes LP is the next evolution of the music album, delivering a rich, immersive experience for select albums on the iTunes Store by combining beautiful design with expanded visual features like live performance videos, lyrics, artwork, liner notes, interviews, photos, album credits and more.


Now Apple TV users can enjoy Genius Mixes through their home theater system and listen to up to 12 endless mixes of songs that go great together, automatically generated from their iTunes library. Customers can also enjoy Internet radio, allowing them to browse and listen to thousands of Internet radio stations, as well as tag favorite stations to listen to later. Apple TV's support of HD photos is enhanced with iPhoto Events, which simplifies finding your favorite photos on Apple TV, as well as iPhoto® Faces, which gives access to photos organized by people identified in iPhoto.


Apple TV users have direct access to a catalog of over 8,000 Hollywood films on iTunes including over 2,000 in stunning HD video available for rent or purchase. Users can also choose from a selection of 11 million songs, 10,000 music videos and over 50,000 TV episodes to purchase directly from their Apple TV or browse and enjoy the iTunes Store podcast directory of over 175,000 free video and audio podcasts. Purchases downloaded to Apple TV are automatically synced back to iTunes on the user's computer for enjoyment on their Mac® or PC or all current generation iPods or iPhones.* iPod touch® or iPhone® users can download the free Remote app from the App Store to control their Apple TV with a simple tap or flick of the finger.


Pricing & Availability


The new Apple TV software is available as a free automatic download to all Apple TV customers. The 160GB Apple TV is available from the Apple Store® (www.apple.com), Apple's retail stores and Apple Authorized Resellers for a suggested retail price of $229 (US). Apple TV requires an 802.11b/g/n wireless network or 10/100 Base-T Ethernet networking, a broadband Internet connection and a high definition widescreen TV. Video availability varies by country.


Apple TV easily connects to a broad range of widescreen TVs and home theater systems and comes standard with HDMI, component video, analog and optical audio ports. Using high-speed Wi-Fi, Apple TV automatically plays your iTunes content without setup or management.


*Movie rentals work on iPod classic®, iPod nano® with video, iPod touch, iPhone, iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS.


Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its award-winning computers, OS X operating system and iLife and professional applications. Apple is also spearheading the digital media revolution with its iPod portable music and video players and iTunes online store, and has entered the mobile phone market with its revolutionary iPhone.


© 2009 Apple Inc. All rights reserved. Apple, the Apple logo, Mac, Mac OS, Macintosh, Apple TV, iTunes, iPhoto, iPod touch, iPhone, Apple Store, iPod classic and iPod nano are trademarks of Apple. Other company and product names may be trademarks of their respective owners.


SOURCE Apple

[Alfuh]

:(

better, but not good enough. Don't think any software updates can save this thing ...

Once I get the new iMac my Mac Mini goes to the TV ...

[colinmack]

Sure if you want to take the "Apple is right, BUYERS are wrong". Didn't Ford also get credited with something like "They can have any color of car they want, as long as it is black"? If we accept that maybe BUYERS can imagine what they want, perhaps that Ford quote better applies to this situation?

Or, people want a more "future proof" :apple:TV solution that is a good match for what the playback device- their TV- can handle today (and yesterday). We can spend about the same cost that Apple asked for :apple:TV to get a BD box that can play our movies back at much higher quality than what :apple:TV can yield. Some of those boxes also have some :apple:TV features (albeit generally more poorly implemented) and some coveted :apple:TV features NOT available.

I don't really want a BD player in the next-gen, but many BUYERS would BUY if they could kill both birds with one stone. I don't really want DVR functionality in the next gen, but many BUYERS would BUY if they could kill those 2 birds with one stone. Based on other hardware in the marketplace, it is OBVIOUS that Apple could deliver on both of these wants and probably leave :apple:TV pricing about where it is IF THEY WANTED TO DO THAT.

Or, they could try to make us want any color of car as long as it is black, and NOT win those BUYERS who are waiting for the feature(s) they want. Even Ford came around eventually (and perhaps he learned that insulting his market's intelligence with "only WE know what you want to buy" is not necessarily the best attitude for maximizing the sales of his products).

Actually that's one of my favourite quotes...I have my kids convinced that black cars are just that little bit faster than other colours :D

I think the main point of the horse quote was not that people should ignore their customers, but that sometimes customers can't see past minor evolution of current technology, and that leaps of innovation sometimes have to come at the expense of the customer always being right.

The greatest innovations in history didn't come from iterative product enhancements and 'faster horses', they came through re-invention and a new way of looking at things.

Now, I don't think Apple has often been the source of true innovation themselves (sorry for stepping out of the reality distortion field for a minute), but what they do tend to be really good at is sniffing out the next big wave, and figuring out how to simplify it, market it, and build a viable ecosystem around it. The mouse, GUI, iPod/iTunes, iPhone/App store are all good examples where Apple didn't invent something, but they did recognize it early, figured out how to make it work better, and brought it to the masses.

Of course in this case there are presumably additional motives for not including optical drives or DVR features - it might slow the adoption of their version of digital content delivery with consumers, could weaken their arm-twisting with the major studios to get new content online, and take revenue away from the iTunes store. All good reasons (from Apple's perspective) to stall as long as possible and hope for traction. Tactical vs. strategic.

[Terminal.app]

The Apple TV is the only Apple product that has an HDMI output. When will we see this on their other products...like, erm...Macs for example?

[severe]

I'd like to see an example of the new software. A quick Google search found nothing.

[peterdevries]

A pointless update for a pointless product.

Aaah, it must be great having the world revolve around you...:rolleyes:

To many people the Apple TV actually is a great product.. Your point of view is not necessarily that of everyone.

[pmjoe]

CUPERTINO, Calif., Oct. 29 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Apple® today introduced [...]

The new software also allows Apple TV users to enjoy stunning fullscreen iTunes Extras and iTunes LP, including great new movie titles such as "Star Trek"

This press release must be a hoax.

[echoout]

I'm totally happy with my AppleTV. I rent movies, view my family photos and movies on an HDTV, and along with my eyeTV get an additional tuner to my 2 in my Tivo. Great. No use for a Mini for me.

[danny_w]

Actually that's one of my favourite quotes...I have my kids convinced that black cars are just that little bit faster than other colours :D

I think the main point of the horse quote was not that people should ignore their customers, but that sometimes customers can't see past minor evolution of current technology, and that leaps of innovation sometimes have to come at the expense of the customer always being right.

The greatest innovations in history didn't come from iterative product enhancements and 'faster horses', they came through re-invention and a new way of looking at things.

Now, I don't think Apple has often been the source of true innovation themselves (sorry for stepping out of the reality distortion field for a minute), but what they do tend to be really good at is sniffing out the next big wave, and figuring out how to simplify it, market it, and build a viable ecosystem around it. The mouse, GUI, iPod/iTunes, iPhone/App store are all good examples where Apple didn't invent something, but they did recognize it early, figured out how to make it work better, and brought it to the masses.

Of course in this case there are presumably additional motives for not including optical drives or DVR features - it might slow the adoption of their version of digital content delivery with consumers, could weaken their arm-twisting with the major studios to get new content online, and take revenue away from the iTunes store. All good reasons (from Apple's perspective) to stall as long as possible and hope for traction. Tactical vs. strategic.
Henry Ford also stuck with mechanical brakes until 1941, even though everybody else had log ago changed over to hydraulic brakes. So much for being ahead of the times.

[severe]

The Apple TV is the only Apple product that has an HDMI output. When will we see this on their other products...like, erm...Macs for example?

http://www.bikudo.com/photo_stock/389331.jpg

[locust76]

This press release must be a hoax.

If you look at the Apple TV site on apple.com (click thru "iPod + iTunes), you can see a screenshot of a new menu and movie extras + iTunes LP

Edit: didn't see the bolded part... ah well, at least the webpage still lends credibility to the whole thing :P

[pmjoe]

If you look at the Apple TV site on apple.com (click thru "iPod + iTunes), you can see a screenshot of a new menu and movie extras + iTunes LP
Anything in 2009 that mentions "great new movie" and "Star Trek" in the same sentence is a hoax.

[pmjoe]

I haven't touched an Apple TV in a while. Is the Internet radio support new? What stations does it include? Can you add your own?

Outside of Internet radio and better photo support, this sounds like a real yawner for 3.0.

[danny_w]

Internet radio. Finally!

[Peace]

Internet radio. Finally!

That is a great addition imho.

Now whens the update coming out? The store shows the new menu.

[colinmack]

Henry Ford also stuck with mechanical brakes until 1941, even though everybody else had log ago changed over to hydraulic brakes. So much for being ahead of the times.

True enough - Apple did make the puck mouse, the Newton, and the Pippin game console. Nobody can get it right all the time ;-)

[musicman0725]

This press release must be a hoax.

No, it's there...just not listed under recent press releases yet. You can find it here:

http://www.apple.com/pr/

[Felix01]

Another highly satisfied ATV user checking in. I use it every day...70GB of stored music streaming through my surround sound, another 60GB of home videos and family/vacation stills, Podcasts, weekly 99¢ Apple movie specials, etc. And best of all, like everything else Apple, it just works...plug & play. Sure, I could do everything I use it for by employing other workarounds, but why? Agreed, I pay a premium for Apple equipment but my free time is valuable to me and I'd rather spend it watching (or listening) to ATV products than figuring out ways to work around saving 200 bucks.

[jettredmont]

I would love to have an external Blu Ray (like the 360's HD DVD) that would plug into the back of the ATV. I do not know if USB has the bandwidth to carry picture and sound from a BR, but I would like it.

Dude. I was at Best Buy the other day, and they have Bluray players there that plug directly into the back of your TV or home theater setup! No AppleTV needed!

Seriously: what would be gained by piping Bluray content through the ATV's motherboard, other than potentially introducing issues (real or imagined) that Apple has to deal with?

[steve77uk]

and the new interface does look pretty neat and it is a lot faster I must admit..

I am still gutted there is no safari function on there, but wonder if there is room for it under internet one day.

I was also hoping they would redesign the intro movie which I preferred v1!

They have changed the default font in the menus, look a bit more modern...

[jettredmont]

For those of you with AppleTVs, and I'm just curious here, have you ever used Plex (http://www.plexapp.com/)?

Maybe I'm just not thinking clearly, but is there anything the AppleTV does that Plex can't do?

While it's not the most convenient thing in the world (and if I purchased a Mac Mini it would just always be connected to my TV), I hook up my MBP to my TV and watch Hulu, anything in my iTunes, all of my MKV files, etc.

Thoughts?

Things the ATV does that Plex can not:

1. Run on a small, thin, energy-miser box which costs less than half what a Mac Mini to run Plex would.

That's about it. So, no, nothin much.

Again, though, if you're happy with the Mini connected to your TV, all the more power to ya. The ATV has a place as a lower-cost, but more importantly less obtrusive, means to the same end.

[fpnc]

If 3.0 brings 720p at 30 FPS support like 2.0 brought 720p at 24 FPS support, I might even buy a second one...Yes, 30fps 720P would be a very useful update and I'm hoping that Apple can do this with just a software update to the current hardware. Transcoding from 30fps to 24fps is a real killer in terms of playback quality (because you lose frames). This means that currently if you have 30fps HD content you pretty much have to encode at 960x540 which is the highest resolution that the Apple TV supports at 30fps. However, that resolution has only about 56% of the pixel content of 720P (1280x720).

Further, those asking for 1080p playback versus support for "only" 1080i need to recognize that the differences between 1080p and 1080i are mostly in the capture side of the equation. You can view (or transcode) 1080p as 1080i with very little if any difference in playback quality. Interlacing only becomes a significant problem on playback when the alternate fields in the interlaced source show motion (so called interlacing artifacts). However, if you view (or transcode) a 1080p source at 1080i you'll never see any interlacing artifacts because the initial capture was done in a progressive format.

In addition, full 1080 resolution is so high to begin with that unless you have a very large TV or sit very close to your TV you're not going to see much difference in the quality of the image. It's been calculated that if you sit at "normal" viewing distances (about 9 feet) you'd need somewhere between a 70 and 96 inch TV in order to take full advantage of 1080 resolution. Furthermore, unless your TV is larger than 42" you won't be able to tell the difference in resolution between an SD and HD source (again, when viewing from about 9 feet). Note that I'm talking only about resolution, not the color, contrast, and encoding differences that might exist between HD and SD content. Thus, when taking all factors into consideration HD content may under some conditions look "better" even when you are limited to smaller TV sizes.

Thus, given the above, frame rate changes (going from 30fps to 24fps or even 24fps to 30fps) are a much bigger issue and that's why I'm really hoping that the next version of Apple TV supports both 24fps and 30fps 720p.

[Bubba Satori]

Funny, I always wondered what all the hype was really about involving the ATV. I guess not much? :confused:

I sold three in two years. One was returned. Tivos we could never keep in stock. Maybe customers knew something.

[jettredmont]

i would be very happy if apple introduced apple tv apps..

so for example, Revision3 can create an app that simply lets its videos play on your TV through apple tv. I can stop using the buggy and poor UI of boxee.

espn.com..same thing
cnn.com

i know the whole hulu vs cable industry fight might complicate this...but if espn.com has game summary videos available on its website, I dont see why there would be a huge battle just streaming that to your TV through the app.

Agree 100%. This would be THE killer "app" for ATV 3.0. Question is: would Apple let it happen? I don't mean that in a nefarious way, necessarily; Apple has contracts with the big studios to get their content into the iTunes Store and onto the ATV on a pay-per-download basis; will those contracts allow Apple to sidestep pay-per-download to allow advertising-based content in?

In the end, though, I strongly suspect that this is where ATV is heading. I absolutely love buying high quality copies of my favorite shows, especially if the whole family is enjoying them, but also end up streaming quite a bit from Hulu et al for less-important shows or when just one or two of us want to watch something (I hate subjecting the entire family to ads).

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I think the main point of the horse quote was not that people should ignore their customers, but that sometimes customers can't see past minor evolution of current technology, and that leaps of innovation sometimes have to come at the expense of the customer always being right.

While words like "sometimes" certainly soften the stance, there is nothing wrong in the fast-moving tech world of delivering what the broader market wants, and then having a greater vision come to pass that might obsolete some of it. That happens all the time with ALL of Apples products. If Apples vision is right (that discs and DVRs are on the way out), it would seem to be much more profitable to sell :apple:TVs now with the features people want to buy, then let the disc and dvr functionality fade out as important features when Apple's better way comes to pass.

OR, stick with leaving the car colors black and wait on the market to come around to agreeing with them, and risk that market finding a better alternative from any number of other competitors trying to take a bite of that (massive) pie (even hard drive manufacturers are trying to get in!).

Of course in this case there are presumably additional motives for not including optical drives or DVR features - it might slow the adoption of their version of digital content delivery with consumers, could weaken their arm-twisting with the major studios to get new content online, and take revenue away from the iTunes store. All good reasons (from Apple's perspective) to stall as long as possible and hope for traction. Tactical vs. strategic.

Like Ford slowed the adoption of car colors by sticking with black?

Wouldn't it seem logical that it would be easier to negotiate with the studios if Apple could pitch that the new version would be able to play high-profit BD discs too which would give the Studios an alternative vision of having to bow to Apple like their buddies in the music industry are generally having to do?

Hasn't Apple said again and again that iTunes exists to sell HARDWARE, thus strongly implying that they don't care that much about what they make from iTunes store sales? If it is about selling HARDWARE, then delivering a next-gen :apple:TV with the features BUYERS want to buy would support selling a lot more hardware. If that buyer chooses to buy the BD disc instead of the iTunes movie, that still means an :apple:TV was bought and holds an important place in the home AV setup. Or, don't give BUYERS what they want, DON'T get into the guys home who chooses a BD player instead of an :apple:TV and then NO iTunes store revenues via that BD device is even possible.

Again, I don't really care personally if they put in a BD player or a DVR. I can even support the idea that these are features with a limited lifecycle (but what isn't in tech?), but I do understand that a lot of people would be interested in buying this kind of device if it had features they deem important. Those seem like a few popular features people keep saying they want. Picture this.

AppleTV 1080p
All the user friendly features of AppleTV 3.0, with full 1080p playback, BD playback, cutting-edge DVR so you can record your favorite shows, coveted new feature #4, coveted new feature #5, coveted feature #X- all for just $249. Available today.

And one more thing: AppleTV store, AppleTV apps, AppleTV API.

A few years ago, that would be a $500+ box, but now we see all the pieces in alternative boxes for a lot less than the current incarnation of :apple:TV. It is obviously and technically possible for Apple to wow the CE space just like they just did with the new iMacs. They can do it at their price, probably preserving the Apple margin to boot. It is merely the WILL to do it.

If Apples innovative vision of tomorrow is right, then we still get there with this box- we just stop using the DVR function, the BD feature, etc. But between now and then, that would be another Apple "WOW" product.

Who isn't going to buy that Apple TV today (if it rolled out today)? They'd probably get me even at even $599. TODAY!

[Felix01]

Started downloading 3.0...ATV says 10 minutes. Guess it's sizable.

[Bubba Satori]

In addition, full 1080 resolution is so high to begin with that unless you have a very large TV or sit very close to your TV you're not going to see much difference in the quality of the image.

Not according to people who buy TVs. I've never had a customer not be able to tell that there' a huge difference between even smaller TVs like a 32" 720 and a 32" 1080 when they're playing a Blu-ray demo. The difference is startling.

[jettredmont]

Absolutely agree here. I recently purchased a 160GB ATV with the recent price drop at $200 from Amazon. Combined with an EyeTV and Handbrake, we were able to cancel cable and save $60 a month. The only reason I pull DVDs off the shelf anymore is to rip them to the ATV. The device is perfect for me, my wife can use it no problem, and the sky is the limit for what Apple could do in the future to upstage cable TV and physical media. For me, throwing $200 to use the device right now also lets Apple know that demand for the device is there. When they update the hardware, I'll take all the cash I saved from dumping cable and buy the new one. :)

You could buy a new ATV every two and a half months for our old DirecTV bill!

Of course, we also spend money on the iTunes store, so it takes about 4 months to completely recoup the cost of the ATV in our household.

[Terminal.app]

Not according to people who buy TVs. I've never had a customer not be able to tell that there' a huge difference between even smaller TVs like a 32" 720 and a 32" 1080 when they're playing a Blu-ray demo. The difference is startling.

Personally I don't see the point in buying an HDTV over 32", or at the very most 40". Once you go from 720 to 1080, the resolution stays the same on all ascending screen sizes. And from what I've observed, a BD movie looks better played on a 32" 1080p HDTV than on a 46 or 52-incher. I suppose this is because the bigger screen size, the bigger the pixels get while the resolution stays the same, and the larger pixels on the huge models make the picture look less crisp.

Sony has a 32" 1080p Bravia that I'd like to have. I don't see the point in a larger one.

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Not according to people who buy TVs. I've never had a customer not be able to tell that there' a huge difference between even smaller TVs like a 32" 720 and a 32" 1080 when they're playing a Blu-ray demo. The difference is startling.

In support of this, I hook my HD Camcorder (1080p) up to my TV and compare it to the same movie rendered at 960 x 540 or 720p on :apple:TV and it is night and day obvious.

[Dysfnctnl85]

Because doing that, as you said, isn't the most convenient thing in the world. Plus it occupies your laptop while you are watching TV. Also, ATV interfaces with iTunes, so iTunes can be the sole way in which your organize all of your media for all of your devices -- TV included (not that I think itunes is the best).

That said, Plex and Boxee both offer web content that is not available on ATV -- which is very nice.

I am hoping some day for a true seemless integration of web and local content. I think the best way to do this would be to build an ATV App Store, just like the iPhone. The providers can manage their own content and it gives them an easy way to get it on the ATV.

This requires Apple to take some initiative and change the way we watch tv, and not just by adapting the iTunes music store model to video -- which is inherently the wrong solution.

I was hoping to eliminate the argument of using a laptop versus a full-time box by stating that I could use a Mini instead if I really had the need, but I guess I failed! Watching Hulu on my TV is really nice and ahead of my Vudu box (please don't make this an AppleTV vs Vudu argument, it is not) in terms of what else the device can do besides play movies.

Things the ATV does that Plex can not:

1. Run on a small, thin, energy-miser box which costs less than half what a Mac Mini to run Plex would.

That's about it. So, no, nothin much.

Again, though, if you're happy with the Mini connected to your TV, all the more power to ya. The ATV has a place as a lower-cost, but more importantly less obtrusive, means to the same end.

I don't have a Mini, but I was just postulating that leaving a Mini connected to my TV would be my solution in lieu of purchasing an AppleTV or using my notebook whenever I want to watch something from my computer on my TV.

That's more or less what I expected. Plex is not as polished, in terms of UI, as an Apple product but it certainly provides a tremendous amount of control through that dinky little remote that came with my notebook. I don't think it's incredibly difficult to add content, nor have I had any problems with using any iTunes content, but Plex is not as Plug-n-Play as AppleTV. That's a small sacrifice for me though and obviously not worth it as others have stated.

I just wanted to see if AppleTV owners looked at anything such as Plex before making their decision to purchase.

[giyad]

never updated my apple tv since i didnt want to lose boxee. but if its 3.0...maybe i might..need to relearn how to do that whole boxee thing though...argh

btw i think i paid $200 for my apple tv last black friday from the apple store...have used it every weekend (except for 2 -3 times). I would say i got my money's worth out of it so far...

http://forum.boxee.tv/showthread.php?t=12605

I don't know how to use my AppleTV without Boxee haha... i find it useless that it won't play my .avi's (obsolete format or not)

[lanceh5]

Since I don't have an Apple TV, is it possible to stream iPhotos to a TV set using Apple TV? We have 16,000 photos and add 10 to 30 more each day. I would like to review the photos on the TV set. I have burned some photos to a CD but the quality was very poor and a slow process. So i would like to see the last photos say from the last few days. Apple TV??

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Personally I don't see the point in buying an HDTV over 32", or at the very most 40". Once you go from 720 to 1080, the resolution stays the same on all ascending screen sizes. And from what I've observed, a BD movie looks better played on a 32" 1080p HDTV than on a 46 or 52-incher. I suppose this is because the bigger screen size, the bigger the pixels get while the resolution stays the same, and the larger pixels on the huge models make the picture look less crisp.

Sony has a 32" 1080p Bravia that I'd like to have. I don't see the point in a larger one.

That's where how close you sit comes into play. Eventually, someone will squeeze 1980 x 1080 pixels into an iPod size LCD screen. Those pixels would be super small, but your argument would suggest why buy anything bigger than that as the resolution would be fully maxed out and the pixels would be as compact as possible?

[GeekLawyer]

Can you guys post links to support this. I've been looking, but I can't find anything definitive. Especially not for a circumstance like the AppleTV, where files need to be on a shared network. Not trying to get on a high horse here, I've gotten thousands of songs ripped myself, but the law's the law so please clarify...

The analysis here is the doctrine of fair use as applied to copyrighted material. The RIAA themselves have said through counsel, "the record companies, my clients, have said, for some time now, and it's been on their website for some time now, that it's perfectly lawful to take a CD that you've purchased, upload it onto your computer, put it onto your iPod."

Like I said, DVDs are a grayer area, but again, backup is a component of fair use that I'd argue applies to DVD media. As long as one owns the DVD, owns the computer, and owns the AppleTV, I don't see a great deal of difference in format-shifting from plastic discs to your own hard drive.

Files on the AppleTV need not be on a "shared" network. My local network is quite closed and unshared.

I'm not giving legal advice on a public forum. The best place to research these issues for yourself is eff.org.

[giyad]

Since I don't have an Apple TV, is it possible to stream iPhotos to a TV set using Apple TV? We have 16,000 photos and add 10 to 30 more each day. I would like to review the photos on the TV set. I have burned some photos to a CD but the quality was very poor and a slow process. So i would like to see the last photos say from the last few days. Apple TV??

yes of course, thats one of the features

but you're going to buy an AppleTV just for that?

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Since I don't have an Apple TV, is it possible to stream iPhotos to a TV set using Apple TV? We have 16,000 photos and add 10 to 30 more each day. I would like to review the photos on the TV set. I have burned some photos to a CD but the quality was very poor and a slow process. So i would like to see the last photos say from the last few days. Apple TV??

Yes, that's one fantastic feature that the current :apple:TV delivers very well.

[WilliamLondon]

A pointless update for a pointless product.

If nothing it gives people a reason to demonstrate their superiority by commenting on products they don't use and find understatedly silly in production. If only I had so much free time as those people, boy would I be a happy man!!

Personally, I love my AppleTV - I use it every single day. I watch current network television shows and don't have to suffer through the 12 minutes of psychological manipulation for every 1/2 hour show. Over a year ago I cancelled my cable and haven't missed it one moment, and have saved £100s.

I'm so glad someone has pointed out to me what a pointless product this is that I use every single day. Where would I be without such assistance in life? Thank you!

- William

[blybug]

The analysis here is the doctrine of fair use as applied to copyrighted material. The RIAA themselves have said through counsel, "the record companies, my clients, have said, for some time now, and it's been on their website for some time now, that it's perfectly lawful to take a CD that you've purchased, upload it onto your computer, put it onto your iPod."

Like I said, DVDs are a grayer area, but again, backup is a component of fair use that I'd argue applies to DVD media. As long as one owns the DVD, owns the computer, and owns the AppleTV, I don't see a great deal of difference in format-shifting from plastic discs to your own hard drive.

I tend to agree from an ethical standpoint and for myself, I'm content that what I'm doing is reasonable use of the DVDs I own, and importantly keeps them safe and protected from scratches, smudges, and loss. I never have and never will share these files with anybody directly or via P2P.

However, it seems clear from a legal angle that cracking the CSS protection scheme is a violation of the DMCA as per the FBI warning seen at start of any commercial DVD, even for personal use. I think this is an area where the law has simply not kept pace with technology, and is inconsistent across media types and delivery schemes. I can TiVo many of the same shows and movies when broadcast over the air for free, then convert them with legitimate software (Roxio TiVoToGo) into digital files for my :apple:TV...same end result, so why can't I convert the same program off the DVD that I bought?

These days some DVDs are coming with a DRM'd (Fairplay) digital copy included for iPods and :apple:TVs. How about releasing some MPAA-sanctioned Handbrakish software that creates mp4 files from older DVDs with the same DRM wrapper to legitimize the process? They could even charge a buck or 2 each time a conversion is made.

[jettredmont]

That's laughable. The only things Netflix and the like do is redistribute the major networks' content. If those companies go away, buh-bye content.


Content is not generally produced by NBC, CBS, etc. Or rather, not by what you think of as "the network". The network purchases content from content creators (the production company) for distribution. They generally buy first-distribution rights, allowing the content producer to shop around "reruns" wherever they'd like. Where a network's content arm produces a show, it is fairly common that that show will actually get sold to a different network entirely for distribution - it's the exception, but far from rare.

The model is similar to but not entirely analogous to record labels' deals with artists. The distributor has some say (varies by show, but generally is significant) about where the show goes plot-wise, but in the end is not responsible for having "created" the content at all.

Examples:

* Heroes, airs on NBC, is produced by Universal Media Studios (same parent as NBC) and Tailwind Productions (unaffiliated).
* Lost, airs on ABC, is produced by ABC Productions (same parent as ABC), Bad Robot (unaffiliated), and Grass Skirt Productions (unaffiliated).
* Buffy the Vampire Slayer, aired on WB, was produced by Mutant Enemy Productions (unaffiliated).

In just about ALL cases, the shows' premises were dreamed up outside the context of the production company (there are exceptions, especially in the drivel-shows, but not many amongst headline shows). They were then shopped around to various networks for distribution, one network bit and gave money to produce a pilot, the pilot was made, then that network decided to buy one or more seasons (or half a season in many cases).

Again, if you think of "ABC" as "ABC Productions", then your statement borders on truth. Obviously the two are related. However, ABC that most of us identify with could whither and die tomorrow, and ABC Productions would still be churning out new episodes of Lost.

[Felix01]

Personally I don't see the point in buying an HDTV over 32", or at the very most 40".

I guess you watch TV in a small room, huh?

[Felix01]

Since I don't have an Apple TV, is it possible to stream iPhotos to a TV set using Apple TV?

Of course.

[cmendill]

I was hoping to eliminate the argument of using a laptop versus a full-time box by stating that I could use a Mini instead if I really had the need, but I guess I failed! Watching Hulu on my TV is really nice and ahead of my Vudu box (please don't make this an AppleTV vs Vudu argument, it is not) in terms of what else the device can do besides play movies.


Right, a mini would be nice, but it is three times as expensive as ATV. I didn't realize that Plex claims to seamlessly integrate with your shared itunes library. Plex actually seems really great, and I like that their focus seems centered on your local media, unlike boxee which has this whole social networking side to it that I could do without. But plex doesn't have an ATV version like Boxee. It would be nice if apple could realize that the Plex model is much better than its own, and try something like it.

That said, The ATV's biggest issue is the hardware. If it were better it could run Plex, and run Boxee much better. Hopefully we'll see a hardware update soon to coincide with 3.0 coming out.

[twoodcc]

well this turned out to be true

[fpnc]

In support of this, I hook my HD Camcorder (1080p) up to my TV and compare it to the same movie rendered at 960 x 540 or 720p on :apple:TV and it is night and day obvious.
But those differences have nothing to do with resolution unless you are standing fairly close to the TV. It is physically impossible for you to see the full 1080p resolution on an HDTV unless you are viewing the TV from a distance that is not much more than 3X the height of the TV image itself. For example, on my 46 inch HDTV that "optimum" viewing distance is 6 feet. On my 32 inch HDTV this distance is only 4 feet. Furthermore, this limit for 1080p content is for high contrast viewing in a darkened room with no contrast-reducing reflections on the surface of the TV. In any case, note that these "optimum," full-resolution values allow for a range of greater viewing distances where you would be getting some benefit from HDTV resolutions.

On the opposite end (perhaps more interesting), when viewing from 9 feet your eye probably can't detect any resolution difference between standard definition content and HD content unless your HDTV is larger than 42 inches (under "good" viewing conditions). Under absolutely optimum conditions the HDTV would have to be larger than 31 inches in order for you to resolve anything better than even standard definition content (from 9 feet, which has been found to be the typical TV viewing distance for most people).

In any case, as I said before:
Note that I'm talking only about resolution, not the color, contrast, and encoding differences that might exist between HD and SD content. Thus, when taking all factors into consideration HD content may under some conditions look "better" even when you are limited to smaller TV sizes.
Everyone who responded to my previous post ignored that stipulation.

All of the above values were taken from "The Schubin Report" which is a really excellent technical podcast series:

http://schubincafe.com/

[seedster2]

A pointless update for a pointless product.

This is true in many ways. AppleTV is an unsuccessful small niche product.

Many current users claim it's great but still ultimately hack it to make it useful. If it were great right out of the box as claimed, why would there be so many recommending third party software?

Perhaps being a media conduit isn't a compelling device, or apple needs to partner with a HULU, or add more capable hardware. Whatever it is, these software updates aren't enough. At the moment it's too much work to rip a DVD collection and digital video downloads isn't growing as fast as BD.

[Maserati7200]

I don't get it.... what has changed besides iTunes LP??? :confused:

[Kilamite]

This is true in many ways. AppleTV is an unsuccessful small niche product.

Many current users claim it's great but still ultimately hack it to make it useful. If it were great right out of the box as claimed, why would there be so many recommending third party software?

I have no hacks and think it is a fantastic product. I have over 300GB's worth of TV shows and movies on it.

For a lot of people, maybe they have no use for it. For me, I use it daily - new tv shows, I encode and pop them on it ready to watch. I really don't know how I'd live with out it..

[mclaycast]

on a side note, why do some people look through the terms and conditions. that must have taken a long time to find just those two lines.

[blybug]

on a side note, why do some people look through the terms and conditions. that must have taken a long time to find just those two lines.
I was buying a song and the store force-flashed the new terms on the screen at me before I could complete my purchase. The line about :apple:TV 3.0 was right at the top. Bought the song and came to MR to see if there was any news about the update.

[JoshBoy]

I have an apple TV and it was one of the best things i ever did. The other great thing is if someone is having a party and says can you bring some music i just take the appleTV with me and bring 10000 songs and movies. All my friends love it. Seems all these people that cry about the apple tv dont even have one.