AHCI drivers in win7 installed, and still no booting into windows!

[Nadav35]

Yes, I still need help with this. Understand that I am not using any raid at all on my 2008 mac pro. All I want to do is achieve using SATA drives via the ODD ports on my logic board to boot windows. I know it can be done. In case you don't believe me, here is the PROOF that shows I have installed the AHCI drivers successfully in windows: Under IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers, the following exists:
Intel(R) 631xESB6321ESB/3100 Chipset Serial ATA Storage Controller, and underneath that says the following:
Intel(R) ESB2 SATA AHCI Controller.

That said, the matrix control console identifies all my 6 ports correctly. But when I go and hook up my SATA bootcamp hard drive to the ODD_SATA Port on my board, IT DOESN'T BOOT! Why?? I went through all that trouble to install AHCI drivers in bootcamp annd it doesn't boot up at all? Yes, I would like to boot windows via ODD_Ports, but each time I do this it doesn't seem to boot. I am afraid to use a SATA optical drive, as the same thing will happen again. However, it appears that when I am in bootcamp, all my drives are recognized and working.

What do I need to do to get the ODD_SATA ports to recognize the AHCI during boot up(NOT WHILE IN BOOTCAMP)? I don't understand why it won't boot, after installing the matrix storage drivers for AHCI? I am leaving you with my skype id so you can chat with me on what to do here. Psychomacuser343 is my skype, while nadav333 is my AIM. I really need help here! As I said, I have tried everything, and while the ODD_SATA ports boot on the mac side, Even with the AHCI drivers in bootcamp, can't get bootcamp booted unless I remove it from the ODD_SATA port. Also, I managed to install one sata cable and not needing to mod my case fan.

[gugucom]

I'm trying to sort through the facts here.

You are running a 2008 MP with one stock superdrive in IDE and the second ODD bay is fitted with a SATA HDD which is connected to one ODD SATA port by a standard SATA cable. Presumably this HDD is powered by the second Molex power in your ODD bay. The second ODD SATA port is unused.

In your four HDD bays you are running no RAID array and there is no RAID card installed in your system.

You have previously mounted the same HDD which is now fitted to ODD SATA in one of your HDD sled ports and you have installed Windows (Version?) and subsequently the AHCI driver by modifying your MBR. You have also installed the Intel matrix storage driver from the executable file. The matrix storage application can be called up from Windows programs. When you have this HDD fitted to a HDD port EFI can see it when you push the option key and it shows you a hard drive which boots into that Windows installation?

Your problem is booting the same way when the HDD is not fitted to a HDD port but to the ODD SATA port wired to the ODD bay? Do you see the Windows HDD in EFI? Is the failure to boot due to EFI not showing you the Windows drive as bootable or does the Windows drive simply not boot if you select it?

This sounds indeed like a strange problem if I have described it correctly. Please confirm that this is really what you have and that you can boot OS X from that ODD SATA port. I'm not sure you managed to do that. Please input "diskutil list" in your OS X Terminal with all disks in the same config that You use for your boot trial of Windows from the ODD SATA port. Post the terminal response here.

I have to say that I never owned a 2008 model and that it has a strange combination of EFI features which have surprised me before. So it is imperative that we understand whether this is an EFI issue or something to do with other parts of the machine.

[Infrared]

What do I need to do to get the ODD_SATA ports to recognize the AHCI during boot up(NOT WHILE IN BOOTCAMP)? I don't understand why it won't boot, after installing the matrix storage drivers for AHCI?

A guess: the drive isn't recognized until AHCI is enabled,
but the code enabling AHCI resides on the drive. Which
would be Catch-22.

[gugucom]

Windows has strange ways of booting. In Vista and Seven it sometimes takes a routing via another drive. If you take that drive out of your system Windows will not boot any more although the boot drive is still present.

[Nadav35]

I'm trying to sort through the facts here.

You are running a 2008 MP with one stock superdrive in IDE and the second ODD bay is fitted with a SATA HDD which is connected to one ODD SATA port by a standard SATA cable. Presumably this HDD is powered by the second Molex power in your ODD bay. The second ODD SATA port is unused.

In your four HDD bays you are running no RAID array and there is no RAID card installed in your system.

You have previously mounted the same HDD which is now fitted to ODD SATA in one of your HDD sled ports and you have installed Windows (Version?) and subsequently the AHCI driver by modifying your MBR. You have also installed the Intel matrix storage driver from the executable file. The matrix storage application can be called up from Windows programs. When you have this HDD fitted to a HDD port EFI can see it when you push the option key and it shows you a hard drive which boots into that Windows installation?

Your problem is booting the same way when the HDD is not fitted to a HDD port but to the ODD SATA port wired to the ODD bay? Do you see the Windows HDD in EFI? Is the failure to boot due to EFI not showing you the Windows drive as bootable or does the Windows drive simply not boot if you select it?

This sounds indeed like a strange problem if I have described it correctly. Please confirm that this is really what you have and that you can boot OS X from that ODD SATA port. I'm not sure you managed to do that. Please input "diskutil list" in your OS X Terminal with all disks in the same config that You use for your boot trial of Windows from the ODD SATA port. Post the terminal response here.

I have to say that I never owned a 2008 model and that it has a strange combination of EFI features which have surprised me before. So it is imperative that we understand whether this is an EFI issue or something to do with other parts of the machine.

I think I am going to retire the mac pro.. it was a bad idea and I am going to get a PC where AHCI will always be standard.

[Nadav35]

A guess: the drive isn't recognized until AHCI is enabled,
but the code enabling AHCI resides on the drive. Which
would be Catch-22.

Ok, this is what I did... I will try to be as simple as I can here.

I installed the AHCI drivers on my bootcamp drive and they are present and working, or so I think they are as I have no way to test it.

Then I wanted to experiment before I decide to go out and buy a SATA optical drive. I simply took out one of my PATA optical drives(having connected one sata cable to the ODD_SATA port). Next, I mounted freely on the optical drive bay floor, my bootcamp hard drive which was powered by using the existing molex from my optical drive cable, and plugged in the sata portion into my bootcamp drive.

Are you with me so far? Good! Ok, while in Mac OS X, I ordered start up disk to start up my bootcamp(already connected to the ODD_SATA port). So far so good, or so I thought.. Then as the screen changes to black temporarily, I get a message saying: MY DRIVE IS NOT BOOTABLE.. PLEASE INSERT A BOOTABLE DEVICE.

And thats the whole thing summed up. Now, why is it saying not bootable when in fact the AHCI drivers are installed in bootcamp??? I can't figure this out!

I have asked you many times now if you have SKYPE or AIM where we can talk and I can further explain this to you. These forums are not helping much, as I am in DIRE NEED OF TECHNICAL SUPPORT and I'd rather it be voice.. Here is my information again:

SKYPE: Psychomacuser343/AIM,Ichat=Nadav333

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, HELP ME!!!! Why isn't windows loading from the ODD_SATA port when there is AHCI drivers there and present?!?!? And no, I am not running a raid. I have no need to. As for diskutil list? I have tested one of my drives connected to the ODD_SATA port and installed snow leopard = YES, ITS BOOTABLE!!! My problem is with windows 7, not Mac OS X.

[Nadav35]

Windows has strange ways of booting. In Vista and Seven it sometimes takes a routing via another drive. If you take that drive out of your system Windows will not boot any more although the boot drive is still present.

What do you mean?!?! Please read my private msg to you where I laid out in black and white piece by piece what I did... once again, took out from the hard drive bay my bootcamp windows 7 volume. Then took out one of my optical drives. With the sata apparatus connected to the ODD_SATA port, i then took the other end of the cable and connected it to my bootcamp drive, mounted freely in my optical drive bay. Booted up OS X to set the start up drive for BOOTCAMP - this worked. But, as soon as bootcamp tried to load - BOOM! DEVICE NOT BOOTABLE, NOW WHAT GIVES?!?

[nanofrog]

Did you try using a separate drive for Win7 on the ODD_SATA port (no OS X at all)?

It would help clarify things. If by chance you haven't yet, give it a shot, as BC 3.1 isn't out yet IIRC. Note that if it does work, you'll still have issues with the BT keyboard, as those drivers had to be re-written for Win7 to function properly, and will be part of BC 3.1.

For now, try the separate disk method. Otherwise, wait until BC 3.1 drops, and see if that helps you (as it's supposed to).

[gugucom]

I installed the AHCI drivers on my bootcamp drive and they are present and working, or so I think they are as I have no way to test it.

The test is very simple. If Win7 starts after the patch and The Intel executable file installs your AHCI installation was good. This HDD should always be bootable with the option key.

I simply took out one of my PATA optical drives(having connected one sata cable to the ODD_SATA port). Next, I mounted freely on the optical drive bay floor, my bootcamp hard drive which was powered by using the existing molex from my optical drive cable, and plugged in the sata portion into my bootcamp drive.

This part I understand. At this point you have one IDE optical drive and one SATA HDD in the drive bay. Your HDD is bootable Win7. At this point I would have expected you to boot pressing the "Alt" option key. After some waiting EFI will show a grey sceen and you should be presented with all your boot options which at this time should include a Windows hard drive symbol. You simply click this on and Windows must boot. If it doesn't do this we need to find out where it fails.


Ok, while in Mac OS X, I ordered start up disk to start up my bootcamp(already connected to the ODD_SATA port). So far so good, or so I thought.. Then as the screen changes to black temporarily, I get a message saying: MY DRIVE IS NOT BOOTABLE.. PLEASE INSERT A BOOTABLE DEVICE.

I don't understand what you are doing there.

What start up disk are you talking about?

[gugucom]

With the sata apparatus connected to the ODD_SATA port, i then took the other end of the cable and connected it to my bootcamp drive, mounted freely in my optical drive bay. Booted up OS X to set the start up drive for BOOTCAMP - this worked. But, as soon as bootcamp tried to load - BOOM! DEVICE NOT BOOTABLE

Ok, this is a part I understand as well. So you set the Bootcamp HDD which was on the ODD SATA port as boot device in system preferences. Then you booted again and it had this boot failure with the respective message.

This establishes that your EFI can see your Win7 drive. For some reason the booting fails.

At this point I believe your problem is in the Win7 boot drive. I would take it out of the optical bay and put it back into a HDD sled. Then try if it boots from there.

[gugucom]

Did you try using a separate drive for Win7 on the ODD_SATA port (no OS X at all)?

It would help clarify things. If by chance you haven't yet, give it a shot, as BC 3.1 isn't out yet IIRC. Note that if it does work, you'll still have issues with the BT keyboard, as those drivers had to be re-written for Win7 to function properly, and will be part of BC 3.1.

For now, try the separate disk method. Otherwise, wait until BC 3.1 drops, and see if that helps you (as it's supposed to).

Nano, from what I have understood Nadav35's problems seem to be related to the Windows and the AHCI installation.

Using an exclusive HDD for Windows is a good idea.

It is also sensible to make a complete Bootcamp 3.0 driver installation with no problems indicated in Windows device manager before activating AHCI. Any problem with BC 3.0 should be addressed long before we go into this.

Then there should be a backup either with the internal Win7 backup or with Winclone. That way you can go back to your bootable Win7 if a patch goes wrong.

It is unclear at this point whether the Win7 drives only fails to boot from ODD SATA or also from a HDD port. If the failure is the same from both ports he needs to go back to his backup and patch the drive from scratch.

If it only fails from the ODD SATA things would be more difficult.

[Infrared]

Ok, this is what I did... I will try to be as simple as I can here.

I installed the AHCI drivers on my bootcamp drive and they are present and
working, or so I think they are as I have no way to test it.

Then I wanted to experiment before I decide to go out and buy a SATA optical drive.
I simply took out one of my PATA optical drives(having
connected one sata cable to the ODD_SATA port). Next, I mounted freely on
the optical drive bay floor, my bootcamp hard drive which was powered by
using the existing molex from my optical drive cable, and plugged in the sata
portion into my bootcamp drive.

Are you with me so far? Good! Ok, while in Mac OS X, I ordered start up disk
to start up my bootcamp(already connected to the ODD_SATA port). So far
so good, or so I thought.. Then as the screen changes to black temporarily,
I get a message saying:
MY DRIVE IS NOT BOOTABLE.. PLEASE INSERT A BOOTABLE DEVICE.

When you boot off a Windows partition, Apple's EFI firmware puts the
controller into legacy IDE mode before the MBR code is executed.
Once that happens, the drive connected to the ODD_SATA port is no
longer visible. Sounds reasonable?

[gugucom]

When you boot off a Windows partition, Apple's EFI firmware puts the
controller into legacy IDE mode before the MBR code is executed.
Once that happens, the drive connected to the ODD_SATA port is no
longer visible. Sounds reasonable?

As far as I know it is an interaction of Windows with BIOS. Windows decides between Legacy, AHCI and RAID mode for devices which can go into alternative configs. It normally expects a BIOS command to determine which mode it assumes. If no command is issued it defaults to legacy.

With a properly patched drive the MBR tells Windows to go into AHACI mode and if the right driver is found the device will do this. EFI has no influence, except that it is needed to actually boot. If for some reason the boot fails all together then the fault can be found in EFI. But in this case the booting starts but Windows is unable to find a drive with suitable driver to boot.

So the first debug measure should be booting the Windows drive from a port that requires no AHCI mode. If the boot works and the Mac runs in legacy mode the fault is found. Incorrect patch. If it boots and is obviously in correct AHCI mode the problem would be bigger. The 2008 model could work fundamentally different than the 2006, 2007 and 2009 models which have all been found to work correctly with the patch. The probability for this should be fairly low, but we do not know at this time. The OP is not doing the tests.

[nanofrog]

Nano, from what I have understood Nadav35's problems seem to be related to the Windows and the AHCI installation.
From what I've seen, Win7-64 has had problems working with BC 3.0, and BC 3.1 is claimed to fix the issues.

Nadav35's original method was to use OS X and Win7 via BC on an ODD_SATA port. I recommended the attempt at a Win7 installation only (separate the OS's to different disks) as the best solution, even if BC 3.1 works. It saves other potential issues IMO. ;)

It is also sensible to make a complete Bootcamp 3.0 driver installation with no problems indicated in Windows device manager before activating AHCI. Any problem with BC 3.0 should be addressed long before we go into this.
The AHCI drivers can be loaded either during the initial installation, or later via a Registry entry. I've done it both ways, depending if it was a clean install, or changing an existing one.

But as BC 3.0 has issues with Win7, I took the approach that it needed to be eliminated from the equation. BC 3.1 may be another story, but it's not out yet. So the only option I see that can be done now, is a separate disk installation. Otherwise, wait for BC 3.1, and see how that fares.

Then there should be a backup either with the internal Win7 backup or with Winclone. That way you can go back to your bootable Win7 if a patch goes wrong.
Applicable, but it's after getting the OS to install correctly, and make sure it will boot (separate disk method). If all goes well, then make a backup or clone, which is more of a necessity IMO, than an option. ;)

At this point, I don't think there's anything valid to make a backup/clone from with Win7. It's never been able to boot into Win7 so far, so I consider it an invalid installation.

It is unclear at this point whether the Win7 drives only fails to boot from ODD SATA or also from a HDD port.

If it only fails from the ODD SATA things would be more difficult.
I agree. This is what I'm not certain of either, and it needs to be determined.

Unfortunately, he was panicked last we communicated, and objectivity has gone out the window (understandably, but it's needed). Perhaps sleep has helped, as this may take multiple experimental attempts to narrow it down and solve it. ;)

When you boot off a Windows partition, Apple's EFI firmware puts the
controller into legacy IDE mode before the MBR code is executed.
Once that happens, the drive connected to the ODD_SATA port is no
longer visible. Sounds reasonable?
AFAIK, Apple's firmware is fixed to Legacy mode in the '08's, and can't be changed by the user or an application. After the boot process, it can be changed by "brute force", which is what the manual installation of AHCI drivers do within Windows.

It's worked for XP and Vista on those machines, and both could be done on a separate disk off the ODD_SATA ports. The MBR methodology is the same as Vista as I understand it, so it should work this way. BC is what seemed to be the problem.

But I'm not sure if the separate drive method was tried (or if so, properly). I sent him an extracted, then zipped copy of the AHCI drivers on Intel's site last night/early this morning.

As far as I know it is an interaction of Windows with BIOS. Windows decides between Legacy, AHCI and RAID mode for devices which can go into alternative configs. It normally expects a BIOS command to determine which mode it assumes. If no command is issued it defaults to legacy.
Windows doesn't "choose". In most systems, they user can set it in the system's firmware, and the OS follows that setting. EFI's no different in this respect.

The other method of course, is to manually install the drivers to force the method needed. I've actually run into this, even though the board was capable of Legacy, AHCI, or RAID settings. It had to do with the SATA optical drive wouldn't work in AHCI or RAID mode, and was forced to use Legacy (earlier firmware for the drive IIRC). That's since changed.

With a properly patched drive the MBR tells Windows to go into AHACI mode and if the right driver is found the device will do this. EFI has no influence, except that it is needed to actually boot. If for some reason the boot fails all together then the fault can be found in EFI. But in this case the booting starts but Windows is unable to find a drive with suitable driver to boot.
Yep. EFI loads it's default of Legacy mode (done btw, due to the fact the IDE ports and that pair of SATA ports are tied to the same setting, otherwise the IDE ports can't boot), then the patch forces AHCI mode later.

They fixed the the Legacy tying issue with the '09's by eliminating the IDE ports all together, so you've not had to fight this one on your current system. ;) Much easier to deal with, though it costs users a SATA port for the optical drive.

So the first debug measure should be booting the Windows drive from a port that requires no AHCI mode. If the boot works and the Mac runs in legacy mode the fault is found.
Yes, but it means the experiment needs to be done without BC (separate drive). This was the initial issue from what I could determine by the information given via AIM chat.

[gugucom]

From what I've seen, Win7-64 has had problems working with BC 3.0, and BC 3.1 is claimed to fix the issues.

Nadav35's original method was to use OS X and Win7 via BC on an ODD_SATA port. I recommended the attempt at a Win7 installation only (separate the OS's to different disks) as the best solution, even if BC 3.1 works. It saves other potential issues IMO. ;)


Yes, but it means the experiment needs to be done without BC (separate drive). This was the initial issue from what I could determine by the information given via AIM chat.

Bootcamp really consists of two pieces. One is the partition utility and the second is the driver collection.

Many people think the partition utility only works for installing multiple partitions on a drive so that OS X and Windows both have a partition. It is a popular misconception. The utility can perfectly partition your drive for Windows only. I agree that this mode is an advantage when you are working on a Mac Pro with multiple drives. You make fewer mistakes and it provides a clear structure. But it is by no means a necessity for an AHCI patch. More important is that it is completely Apple conform as it runs on a GUID partition table. The use of an MBR partition table is not really an advantage on a Mac.

The Bootcamp 3.0 driver suite has some bugs which will be fixed but I see those primarily with the compatibility mode, the HFS and the MNT drivers. Those are causing BSDs and XP SP3 hang ups. I do not believe 3.1 will bring any benefits to activating the AHCI mode for the ODD SATA ports.

[gugucom]

They fixed the the Legacy tying issue with the '09's by eliminating the IDE ports all together, so you've not had to fight this one on your current system. ;) Much easier to deal with, though it costs users a SATA port for the optical drive.

In Windows the 2009 Mac Pro model works exactly the same with regard to the legacy mode as the 2006 and 2007 did. The superdrive still boots in simulated IDE mode although it uses a SATA port.

If you want to use the spare ODD SATA drive to boot Windows you still have to set the system to AHCI mode. No difference there.

The main difference is that Windows now sees a 2 port device and a 4 port device where in the 2006 model there was one 6 port SATA device.

In the 2009 model the AHCI driver has to be applied to the 4 port device. If you do it to the wrong device or to both you get a BSD.

[nanofrog]

Bootcamp really consists of two pieces. One is the partition utility and the second is the driver collection.

Many people think the partition utility only works for installing multiple partitions on a drive so that OS X and Windows both have a partition. It is a popular misconception. The utility can perfectly partition your drive for Windows only. I agree that this mode is an advantage when you are working on a Mac Pro with multiple drives. You make fewer mistakes and it provides a clear structure. But it is by no means a necessity for an AHCI patch. More important is that it is completely Apple conform as it runs on a GUID partition table. The use of an MBR partition table is not really an advantage on a Mac.

The Bootcamp 3.0 driver suite has some bugs which will be fixed but I see those primarily with the compatibility mode, the HFS and the MNT drivers. Those are causing BSDs and XP SP3 hang ups. I do not believe 3.1 will bring any benefits to activating the AHCI mode for the ODD SATA ports.
I know BC contains drivers (and software, such as remapping of keys).

But I also recall being able to run a separate disk without the need to run BC's partition utility prior to loading the Win install disk. Once Windows was installed, the BC disk was used to load drivers,... specific to that system. It worked with Vista-64 on an ODD-SATA port anyway. That was the reason for suggesting a separate drive method.

My only reason for mentioning waiting for BC 3.1, was:
1. If he wanted to share OS X and Win7 on the same drive.
2. Updated BT drivers (and possibly other's I'm not aware of) that work with Win7 (apparently the current version of BT isn't stable in Win7).

In Windows the 2009 Mac Pro model works exactly the same with regard to the legacy mode as the 2006 and 2007 did. The superdrive still boots in simulated IDE mode although it uses a SATA port.
From the software side, yes. But in the older systems, priority was given via hardware to the IDE ports (think boot sequence).

If you want to use the spare ODD SATA drive to boot Windows you still have to set the system to AHCI mode. No difference there.
I know, and have tried to explain that the drivers must be loaded during the Win boot process in order to force AHCI mode. Then it continues to boot. If not, it will stall out, and what seems is going on with what ever's actually been tried by Nadav35.

Which is why I'm hoping for a clear explaination of what's been tried. There's even the possibility that a step was skipped, and the AHCI drivers never actually loaded (I'm certainly not discounting this).

The main difference is that Windows now sees a 2 port device and a 4 port device where in the 2006 model there was one 6 port SATA device.
Yes. It's that way on the ICH10R with any system. But it's not noticed often with the PC boards, as individuals can run the ports to the drives of their choice, and as most boot drives are attached within the first set (4 port grouping).

In the 2009 model the AHCI driver has to be applied to the 4 port device. If you do it to the wrong device or to both you get a BSD.
I hadn't tried this, so wasn't aware it was occuring. But in the case of Nadav35, it's irrelevant, as it's an '08. ;)

So lets not add to the confusion ATM, though it's an interesting issue for discussion. ;)

[Nadav35]

I Will Gladly Pay Someone $150.00 If They Can Skype Me Or Im Me And Help Me To Get Those Blasted Odd Ports To Boot Into Windows.. For The Last Time, I Prefer It This Way As I Can Greatly Explain Better Through Voice, Rather Than Words...

Skype: Psychomacuser343
Aim: Nadav333

Please Help Me!!! $150.00 I Am Willing To Pay!!!!!!

[BHamilton]

Can someone clarify - does this 'mod' activate the ODD ports under Bootcamp as well (on an early-2008 for example)?

It sounds to me that this is simply changing mode to AHCI for the 4 bays and does not affect the ODD ports.

Thanks

[gugucom]

Can someone clarify - does this 'mod' activate the ODD ports under Bootcamp as well (on an early-2008 for example)?

It sounds to me that this is simply changing mode to AHCI for the 4 bays and does not affect the ODD ports.

Thanks

The 2008 has a 5000 chipset featuring an ESB2 device with six ports. This is identical to the 2006 and 2007 Mac Pro. The only difference is the EFI64 where the earlier models had EFI32. It would be strange indeed if the AHCI patch would not work on the ODD-SATA ports. It does so on the 2009 model as well which has a 5500 chipset with a ICH10R device.

Could someone with a 2008 Mac Pro confirm that he/she has Windows working on the ODD-SATA ports?

[BHamilton]

The 2008 has a 5000 chipset featuring an ESB2 device with six ports. This is identical to the 2006 and 2007 Mac Pro. The only difference is the EFI64 where the earlier models had EFI32. It would be strange indeed if the AHCI patch would not work on the ODD-SATA ports. It does so on the 2009 model as well which has a 5500 chipset with a ICH10R device.

Could someone with a 2008 Mac Pro confirm that he/she has Windows working on the ODD-SATA ports?


The reason I ask is because I see two entries in device manager for ATA controllers. I don't know which one is which. :confused:

Here is my early-2008 list of devices:

http://i33.tinypic.com/30rl7k6.jpg

[gugucom]

The reason I ask is because I see two entries in device manager for ATA controllers. I don't know which one is which. :confused:

Here is my early-2008 list of devices:

http://i33.tinypic.com/30rl7k6.jpg

You appear to have Windows run in legacy mode. The upper device is the IDE controller and the lower device is the SATA controller in legacy mode.

I assume this is running on one of the HDD ports?

[BHamilton]

You appear to have Windows run in legacy mode. The upper device is the IDE controller and the lower device is the SATA controller in legacy mode.

I assume this is running on one of the HDD ports?

Yes. I have not made any changes to the MBR/drivers/etc. This is simply a plain install of Windows 7 with the O/S drive in Bay 1.

I want to try this mod, however, I have some RAID questions I need to post first.

[gugucom]

I want to try this mod....

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=8231724&postcount=1

5. This is the actual installation

5.1 Editing the registry

Now in case we use Vista or Seven we are going to edit the Windows registry as directed by Ludachris. This only needs to be done in Vista and Seven but not in XP because XP has no MS AHCI driver in the standard.

Quote:
Vista 32/64 Windows7 32/64
- Run Regedit (from the command prompt)
- Navigate to "High Key Local Machine\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\msahci"
- edit the "Start" key and change the value from what it is to "0"
- this will tell Vista to check for AHCI on next boot and install the AHCI driver if it is in AHCI mode
- this installs the generic AHCI Microsoft driver and it is really a poor driver for your hardware and you will need the Intel ones to get full performance.
This does not yet activate the AHCI driver. If you have pre loaded the Intel driver during the Windows installation it will load a better Intel legacy driver instead of the slow IDE. You can shut down and restart Windows now.

5.2 Installing the driver

After this reboot comes the tricky part. We will force Windows to take an AHCI driver, which it normally rejects and we will patch the master boot record (MBR) of the drive that holds the Windows installation.

In Windows device manager go to IDE/ATA devices. 2006, 2007 and 2008 Mac Pros have one device for the SATA ports; so its no question which to use. 2009 machines have two separate devices for the ODD and the HDD ports. Select the 4 port HDD device for the AHCI updating. Click properties and update the legacy driver to either the Microsoft or the Intel AHCI driver. It doesn't really matter which one you use. This AHCI installation cannot be done in automatic driver search mode. You have to tell Windows to look in the IDE ATA controller category for them. To find the MS AHCI 1.0 driver in Vista and Seven go to the manufacturer selection and look for Standard. You will have to scroll down to find it. For XP you have to load the Intel driver from from the Intel manufacturer list. If you havn't pre loaded the Intel drivers you should now use the Floppy utility you downloaded. Load these files from USB floppy or USB stick by clicking the have disk option. For pre 2009 you need to select the ESB2 driver. For Nehalem use the ICH10R driver. After this you must not reboot into Windows until you have patched the MBR. Force Windows to take this driver even if it thinks it is incompatible. It actually is but we will soon take care of this with the patch.

5.3 Patching the MBR in OS X

The next step is executing Johnsock's script to patch your MBR. This patch is absolutely necessary for every Windows. Pay particular attention to patch the right disk!!! If you patch an OS X disk that holds no Windows you are in serious trouble. The wrong disk selection will screw up your disk count and nothing will work right from there.

In OS X open the terminal utility. Type "sudo" and a blank. Then drag the unzipped script shell file into the terminal with your mouse. Input your admin password and follow the dialogue.

For this you will need the disk codes that you have noted on paper. The program tries to find your Windows disk but you have to make sure it finds the right one. It often suggests a wrong disk. Be really carefull to insert the complete name for the disk!! In our example it was /dev/disk2 for the second disk. Just inserting the number like 2, 0 or 3 or disk3 or disk4 will not work.

When you are done with patching your MBR the program will confirm to you that you were successfull. You shut down OS X and restart Windows. If you have done the patch right and selected the right controller for your chipset Windows should now show SATA drives and get busy to find the real AHCI drivers for them. If you installed MS AHCI 1.0 you can now switch to the Intel driver without problems. If you got it wrong Windows will malfunction with a BSD on loading. You can use special load options to go back to the last known good configuration which you hopefully established by setting the restore point or you can restore Windows by Winclone. Start all over with the registry edit until you got it right.

5.4 Installing the Intel Matrix Storage Manager

To load the Intel Matrix storage driver you can now execute the Intel executable package which we downloaded. It will be accepted by your machine. If you try installing that package before the patch it will tell you that you are loading a wrong package for your machine. Restart Windows after the storage driver has completely installed. In Vista and Win7 you have to run the executable as administrator. Now you should be all set.

[nanofrog]

The 2008 has a 5000 chipset featuring an ESB2 device with six ports. This is identical to the 2006 and 2007 Mac Pro. The only difference is the EFI64 where the earlier models had EFI32. It would be strange indeed if the AHCI patch would not work on the ODD-SATA ports. It does so on the 2009 model as well which has a 5500 chipset with a ICH10R device.

Could someone with a 2008 Mac Pro confirm that he/she has Windows working on the ODD-SATA ports?
It didn't work with Win7-64 (Ultimate ed.), so maybe not. It's fine in an HDD bay, so it's either something really strange with Win7, or the firmware difference has cut that ability in the '08's.

I seem to recall that XP and Vista did work with the ODD_SATA ports though. Maybe my memory is faulty on this one.

[gugucom]

I wonder what the actual size of the problem is. Is this an individual problem? Is this a problem with Win7-64? Or is this a problem with Win7-64 and the MP3,1?

I have Win7-64-RC in Microsoft AHCI running on a unibody MBP. It has no Intel chipset and no ODD-SATA ports. So I cannot be 100% sure it would work on a MacPro. I could cross take this version with Winclone to the MP4,1 and see how that works out.

The problem is that I can find faults in the driver installation or the patch process if I do it myself. If someone else does it one can never be sure what went wrong. So we might have to wait for someone to be successfull or not to confirm this case.

[BHamilton]

I've spent the afternoon and evening trying this out. Bottom line is that on my early-2008 Mac Pro the ODD ports do not appear to go live under any version of Windows (XP Pro, Vista, 2008, 7). XP and Vista were tried in 32-bit, and 2008 and 7 were tested in their 64-bit versions.

That said, on each version or Windows, AHCI modification as outlined worked flawlessly on the HDD ports.

[gugucom]

I've spent the afternoon and evening trying this out. Bottom line is that on my early-2008 Mac Pro the ODD ports do not appear to go live under any version of Windows (XP Pro, Vista, 2008, 7). XP and Vista were tried in 32-bit, and 2008 and 7 were tested in their 64-bit versions.

That said, on each version or Windows, AHCI modification as outlined worked flawlessly on the HDD ports.

Could you post a pic of the Windows device manager and the Intel matrix storage manager of the 2008 machine in AHCI?

[BHamilton]

Could you post a pic of the Windows device manager and the Intel matrix storage manager of the 2008 machine in AHCI?

That's a looong install to get a screenshot. I'll kick off the install tomorrow and post the pic.

What is it in 2008 that has your curiosity?

[gugucom]

That's a looong install to get a screenshot. I'll kick off the install tomorrow and post the pic.

What is it in 2008 that has your curiosity?

I am curious to know the limits and the problems with the 2008 model baffels me a bit to be honest. I post a pic of my uMBP.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7656/win7ahciumbp.png (http://img291.imageshack.us/i/win7ahciumbp.png/)

And this is the respective installation on a 2009 MP. The storage manager shows the SATA BRD in ODD-SATA port 0 and the Win SSD in ODD-SATA port 1. It is exactly the same Win7-64 cloned with Winclone to the MP4,1. So there is no doubt that win7-64 works exactly like Vista and XP on the MP 4,1. I'm still puzzled why this should not work on a MP3,1.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6049/mp41ahciwin764.png (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/mp41ahciwin764.png/)

[nanofrog]

I wonder what the actual size of the problem is. Is this an individual problem? Is this a problem with Win7-64? Or is this a problem with Win7-64 and the MP3,1?

I have Win7-64-RC in Microsoft AHCI running on a unibody MBP. It has no Intel chipset and no ODD-SATA ports. So I cannot be 100% sure it would work on a MacPro. I could cross take this version with Winclone to the MP4,1 and see how that works out.

The problem is that I can find faults in the driver installation or the patch process if I do it myself. If someone else does it one can never be sure what went wrong. So we might have to wait for someone to be successfull or not to confirm this case.
I've been on the phone with Nadav35 on this:

Hard drive attached to the ODD_SATA in an '08 MP:

Win7-64

Attempt to install via Legacy Mode = FAIL


Attempt to load AHCI drivers during installation = FAIL


XP-32

Attempt to install via Legacy Mode = FAIL


Attempted to load AHCI drivers during installation = Incomplete
It wanted a floppy device to load the drivers from, and wasn't able to find a USB HDD the files were stored on.


No Boot Camp partitions were created (util not run). No slipstreaming was tried either.

So it seems the ODD_SATA ports on that particular model don't work with a Windows installation at all. :(

[gugucom]

I've been on the phone with Nadav35 on this:

Hard drive attached to the ODD_SATA in an '08 MP:

Win7-64

Attempt to install via Legacy Mode = FAIL


Attempt to load AHCI drivers during installation = FAIL


XP-32

Attempt to install via Legacy Mode = FAIL


Attempted to load AHCI drivers during installation = Incomplete
It wanted a floppy device to load the drivers from, and wasn't able to find a USB HDD the files were stored on.


No Boot Camp partitions were created (util not run). No slipstreaming was tried either.

So it seems the ODD_SATA ports on that particular model don't work with a Windows installation at all. :(

You cannot install a drive with Windows to an ODD-SATA port unless you have previously installed the AHCI driver on the drive while it was connected to a standard HDD port.

The only exception is by cloning a Winclone image to the drive from OS X which already has AHCI enabled. That is what I did with my installation that I cloned from the uMBP to the MP4,1.

In all other cases I have first installed Windows in legacy mode on a standard HDD port, then activated AHCI and then transferred the drive to the ODD-SATA port. I thought that was obvious.

[nanofrog]

You cannot install a drive with Windows to an ODD-SATA port unless you have previously installed the AHCI driver on the drive while it was connected to a standard HDD port.
It was tried = FAILED

In all other cases I have first installed Windows in legacy mode on a standard HDD port, then activated AHCI and then transferred the drive to the ODD-SATA port. I thought that was obvious.
This is how it began. Drive attached to HDD bay, installed in Legacy, then the AHCI mode was activated successfully.

Transferred to the ODD_SATA port, and it didn't work. Not with XP-32 or Win7-64.

[gugucom]

And an OS X drive boots from the ODD-SATA port?

It sounds as if something is different on the MP3,1, but I have no clue what it is.

Perhaps the mixed IDE/SATA booting causes a problem. It sounds strange but did he ever take out the IDE optical drive? This machine will probably run a SATA optical drive for booting. I wonder if the a complete SATA environment would fix the issue.

In my MP4,1 I have also EFI64 but it runs optical disks from a SATA drive. Obviously I'm unable to test the thing the other way round because I do not have true IDE in my chipset.

[bagodonuts]

Boy I hated trying to make this work a few years ago. I just wanted to use the extra ports so I could run SATA blu-ray. If I recall, there were two big hurdles

1) The Mac itself works against you (at least true for my 08 MP), through the boot process, not sure if it is in EFI or some other boot loader, the Mac sets the ports to IDE mode if you are not booting to OS X. I assume Apple did this for compatibility.

The solution to this for me was to setup my Mac to triple boot OS X/Win/Linux and use modified Grub stage1/stage2 files to set the ports back to AHCI mode when booting Windows

2) Windows has a requirement to be the last partition on the disk so the sequence of events to setup the partitions for triple booting was not straightforward.

A quick search and it seems that people have taken the original concepts figured out by pipomolo42 on OnMac and figured out the sequencing which will make this less that the 24 hour nightmare it was for me to get working.

These two pages should help

a) Describes the grub method and a way to modify the mbr from within OS X which sounds simpler than using grub. Also points out that you don't technically need a full Linux install to make the grub method work, though I have found it handy to have Linux around from time to time
http://www.infinitemac.com/f74/how-to-boot-mac-pro-in-ahci-mode-t3159/

b) Clear instructions on the order of operations to get your mac setup to triple boot
http://wiki.onmac.net/index.php/Triple_Boot_via_BootCamp

[Infrared]

I've spent the afternoon and evening trying this out. Bottom line is that on my early-2008 Mac Pro the ODD ports do not appear to go live under any version of Windows (XP Pro, Vista, 2008, 7). XP and Vista were tried in 32-bit, and 2008 and 7 were tested in their 64-bit versions.

Mac Pro 2008, Windows 7 x64:

202299

All six ports are there.

The problems people have written about here are caused by the
controller not being in AHCI mode at the appropriate time. If the
controller is not in AHCI mode, the ODD ports cannot be accessed.

I think it may help to describe a typical scenario. So here goes:


[1] You press the power-on button and hold down the OPTION key.

[2] The machine powers up, executes some EFI firmware instructions
and configures the ESB2 controller. At this point it may be in AHCI
or legacy IDE mode. I'm not sure which. I suspect it's AHCI mode.

[3] You select a Windows installation from the firmware OS chooser
and hit RETURN.

[4] The EFI firmware loads a Compatability Support Module (BIOS
emulator) and executes some firmware code that, amongst other
things, puts the controller into legacy IDE mode.

[5] The firmware reads the MBR (Master Boot Record) from the disk
and begins to execute the code contained within it.

[6] If the AHCI patch code is present in the MBR code, the controller
is switched back to AHCI mode.

[7] The MBR code passes control on to the Windows bootloader.


Notes:

The controller must be in AHCI mode before Windows boots if you
want AHCI enabled within Windows.

If your Windows drive is attached to an ODD point, and you can see
it at step [3], you will lose access to that drive during step [4]. So
you will never get a chance to run the MBR code and any AHCI patch
contained in it.

If you boot from a Windows installer disc (CD or DVD), the controller
likely ends up in IDE mode. When the installer runs any drives attached
to the ODD port are likely inaccessible. So you can't install to them.

To avoid that you might patch the CD or DVD to enable AHCI. Or you might
run the installer directly from a hard driver instead. You can do this with
Windows 7 but make sure that the MBR patch is applied to the MBR used to
load the Windows 7 installer.

Sigh. Long post :)

I think the above is correct. If it isn't, please let me know. I'm always
happy to be proved wrong if I learn something in the process.

Thanks.

[gugucom]

I'm glad Bagodonuts and Infrared could confirm that AHCI also works on the 2008 model. I noticed that both users seem to work without an IDE ODD drive. Bagodonuts wrote that he installed a Blu-Ray SATA and Infrared showed two SATA HDDs attached to his ports 0 and 1.

So my theory that you must eliminate the IDE drive could still be right.

[BHamilton]

I'm glad Bagodonuts and Infrared could confirm that AHCI also works on the 2008 model. I noticed that both users seem to work without an IDE ODD drive. Bagodonuts wrote that he installed a Blu-Ray SATA and Infrared showed two SATA HDDs attached to his ports 0 and 1.

So my theory that you must eliminate the IDE drive could still be right.

Dang, I never removed the optical drive during any tests. Pity.

I plugged in the mini-sas to sata fan cable and now have my 8 drives. The 4 drives off the board work beautifully in AHCI (per the OP's tutorial) and boot like they should. No use for those bloody ODD ports now.

[nanofrog]

And an OS X drive boots from the ODD-SATA port?
Yes. Confirmed a few times actually, so it's not a fluke/glitch,... :p

It sounds as if something is different on the MP3,1, but I have no clue what it is.
It's in the firmware, but I don't know exactly what/why is occuring with the IDE-SATA interaction (if it's a code error, or a hardware difference in that particular chipset). I've not gone back and compared the 5000 chipset to the 5400 chipset (and the southbridges), to see if there's a difference, forcing a change. So I'm not sure which.

Perhaps the mixed IDE/SATA booting causes a problem. It sounds strange but did he ever take out the IDE optical drive?
No, but a very interesting idea, and might just work. Nadav35 didn't have a SATA optical drive to test with, as he was trying to go in reverse (use the HDD tests on the ODD to determine if the SATA optical disk would boot a windows install disk).

In my MP4,1 I have also EFI64 but it runs optical disks from a SATA drive. Obviously I'm unable to test the thing the other way round because I do not have true IDE in my chipset.
The idea of SATA only may be what occured to fix the issue, though the firmware on the '09 /= '08 models due to the different CPU & chipset microcode.

BTW, I had issues with SATA optical with an i7 system (LGA1366 board) when the ports were set to AHCI. It wouldn't boot the Windows install disk. So I had to set it back to Legacy to get the OS disk to load, and manually add AHCI to the windows install later.

I don't know if this has changed via the optical drive firmware (there's since been updates), and I've not tried to repeat the process to find out.

Assuming it's still the same, that might explain the reason the '09 still uses Legacy on the ODD SATA ports.

I'm glad Bagodonuts and Infrared could confirm that AHCI also works on the 2008 model. I noticed that both users seem to work without an IDE ODD drive. Bagodonuts wrote that he installed a Blu-Ray SATA and Infrared showed two SATA HDDs attached to his ports 0 and 1.

So my theory that you must eliminate the IDE drive could still be right.
I think it definitely has merit. :)

Though Nadav35 made a post here ([QUOTE=gugucom;8778320]), indicating there will be a firmware update to the '08 models as part of Boot Camp 3.1 to fix it (citing an Apple Engineer as the source of the information). Assuming he was given accurate information, those that have forsaken their IDE ports may be able to regain it's use in order to recover the ODD_SATA port used for the existing optical drive. Might mean something to a few users tight on available ports. ;)

[gugucom]

Though Nadav35 made a post here ([QUOTE=gugucom;8778320]), indicating there will be a firmware update to the '08 models as part of Boot Camp 3.1 to fix it (citing an Apple Engineer as the source of the information). Assuming he was given accurate information, those that have forsaken their IDE ports may be able to regain it's use in order to recover the ODD_SATA port used for the existing optical drive. Might mean something to a few users tight on available ports. ;)Irrespective of firmware updates it would be good to know how things work under the present firmware.

[BHamilton]

When mentioning SATA 'optical' drives for testing, are you speaking of BluRay or simply conventional DVD drives? I've tested with my Pioneer DVD drive (SATA connection) and it is unresponsive on the ODD ports.

[nanofrog]

Irrespective of firmware updates it would be good to know how things work under the present firmware.
With the existing firmware, the ODD_SATA ports WILL NOT BOOT Windows HDD's. This included removing the PATA/IDE drives.

No testing was done with SATA optical drives on these ports, so I didn't confirm that a Windows Install disk would boot or not. PATA/IDE drives only on hand during testing.

OS X HDD's will boot.

[gugucom]

When mentioning SATA 'optical' drives for testing, are you speaking of BluRay or simply conventional DVD drives? I've tested with my Pioneer DVD drive (SATA connection) and it is unresponsive on the ODD ports.

I'm sure we had several users tell us that they booted optical disks on the MP3,1 with SATA ODDs. But that may also be subject to certain restrictions. Perhaps you have to remove all IDE based drives and have AHCI activated from a HDD in order to boot Windows. I cannot imagine that there is a difference between DVD and Blu-Ray drives that leads to the different results.

[nanofrog]

I'm sure we had several users tell us that they booted optical disks on the MP3,1 with SATA ODDs. But that may also be subject to certain restrictions. Perhaps you have to remove all IDE based drives and have AHCI activated from a HDD in order to boot Windows. I cannot imagine that there is a difference between DVD and Blu-Ray drives that leads to the different results.
An OS X HDD will boot off the '08's ODD ports (IDE drives installed or not), and it seems reasonable that a SATA optical drive would boot the OS X media as well (not tested, as there wasn't a SATA optical drive on hand).

The Windows side is the issue. Even with the IDE drives removed, a Windows HDD drive didn't boot (left as legacy or set in AHCI mode in the HDD bay first, then moved to test booting on the ODD port). :(

Any further details as to what worked (or didn't) would really help.

[gugucom]

Even with the IDE drives removed, a Windows HDD drive didn't boot (left as legacy or set in AHCI mode in the HDD bay first, then moved to test booting on the ODD port).

I would be interested to know how the Windows HDDs were partitioned for these tests. Were they all done in MBR partition table from a Windows install disk or did you use the GUID partition table via the Bootcamp utility?

BTW, Nadav35 now claims in another thread http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=8779929&postcount=19 that he was able to boot into Windows from the ODD SATA ports.

[nanofrog]

I would be interested to know how the Windows HDDs were partitioned for these tests. Were they all done in MBR partition table from a Windows install disk or did you use the GUID partition table via the Bootcamp utility?
Both an MBR and BC partition table installs were attempted. Neither functioned on the ODD_SATA ports in an '08. Not even if it was created in one of the HDD bays, AHCI activated, then moved. Windows just wouldn't boot.

If a disk was left on the HDD bays (primary 4 ports on the logic board), it worked in either MBR or GUID partition systems (native Windows or BC partitioning done).

We also determined an OS X install would boot off the ODD_SATA ports (installed in the HDD bay, then moved to the ODD port). No attempts were made with Linux, for those interested.

BTW, Nadav35 now claims in another thread http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=8779929&postcount=19 that he was able to boot into Windows from the ODD SATA ports.
We'll have to see what he's referring to, as it didn't work when I was helping, and IIRC, was off the phone with him later than the post time. Something's not making sense to me here. :confused:

Ultimately, what he seems to want to do, is install a BluRay burner for archival purposes. He can go with either a SATA unit and use a SATA->PATA converter, and attach it to the IDE cable. It would allow it to boot a Windows install disk. Or the drive could be attached to an ODD_SATA port, and worst case, the Windows install disk would have to be placed in the IDE Superdrive in order to boot.

He has options for what he's actually trying to do. No HDD Windows drive is needed on an ODD port, as there's HDD bays available.