Apple to Manufacture Verizon-Compatible iPhone in Q3 2010?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/06/apple-to-manufacture-verizon-compatible-iphone-in-q3-2010/)

A new report from OTR Global (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/11/06/report_apple_to_launch_verizon_iphone_in_q3_2010.html) relayed by AppleInsider indicates that Apple is planning on manufacturing new hybrid iPhones that will support both Verizon's CDMA2000 network as well as the UMTS 3G network. Only the UMTS network is supported by the current version of the iPhone and is used by AT&T and much of the rest of the world.Qualcomm's new hybrid CDMA/WCDMA chip offers the potential for a single, global iPhone that users can take to any major carrier, solving the network fractionalization problem. It also solves other issues that had served as roadblocks, including the issue of user confusion that would result from Apple selling separate CDMA and GSM/UMTS versions of the iPhone.
The reason behind building in such support would seem primarily to extend the iPhone's compatibility with Verizon in the U.S. The move is expected to take place by the 3rd quarter of 2010. Conveniently, AT&T's exclusivity contract with Apple is believed to expire (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/14/atandt-exclusivity-expires-in-2010-atandt-asking-for-extension/) in mid 2010.

The report also indicates the new phones will also shrink in size from 3.5" to 2.8" diagonally. Curiously, this is not the first time the possibility of a 2.8" iPhone has emerged with iLounge previously publishing photos (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/06/05/larger-or-smaller-touchscreen-device-from-apple/) of 2.8" screens that were believed to be for use in future Apple devices.

Article Link: Apple to Manufacture Verizon-Compatible iPhone in Q3 2010? (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/06/apple-to-manufacture-verizon-compatible-iphone-in-q3-2010/)

[slffl]

Hmm, why would Verizon want the iPhone? Do they forget all of the stuff the iPhone 'iDoesn't'?

[manhattanboy]

what about the requirements for a backup network? The single Chip is ok... but seems wasteful given that everyone wants to migrate over to 4G. I also do not think Jobs will forgive Verizon for slamming his prize baby.

[Yelmurc]

I'm all for a Verizon iPhone, but please don't shrink the screen size. Or at least have the option to purchase the larger screen size.

[retroneo]

So the iPhone is going to use the Snapdragon processor...

Looks like Qualcomm has a winner on its hands.

The big question, how does the ATI Imageon in the QSD8650A compare the PowerVR SGX 535 in the iPhone 3GS....

The 8650A will offer significant improvements in battery life too.

[mathcolo]

I have a good feeling this story is right on. Apple is all about simplicity, and a device that runs on CDMA2000 or GSM seems to make a world of sense. I'm so ready for a Verizon iPhone! :D

[gutefahrt]

Verizon iPhone: My first iPhone.

[kavlo26]

Just don't make the screen size smaller. That would be disappointing....big time.

[11800506]

Verizon iPhone would be interesting... but I don't see them ever shrinking the screen size. That just doesn't make sense. If anything, it would be getting slightly bigger.

[Wayfarer]

Bring on the Verizon iPhone!

Q3 2010 - just in time for when I am due for a new phone upgrade. :)

[mkrishnan]

I have a good feeling this story is right on. Apple is all about simplicity, and a device that runs on CDMA2000 or GSM seems to make a world of sense. I'm so ready for a Verizon iPhone! :D

If Apple could get to the point where they still only had one global model (well, back to the point, after the China fiasco), but they can even sell to the American and Korean CDMA markets, that would be quite impressive....

I dunno about 2.8"... I'd sort of rather it just get a touch thinner and maybe take a fractional amount of size off the sides -- games will be harder to play on a smaller screen. But we'll see.

[cshamis]

*Shrink* the screen? Seriously? Anybody who believes that must be nuts.

[rhett7660]

Seems like we hear about verizon getting the iphone a lot. Looks like we will have to wait and see if this one pans out also. I hope it does!

[NoExpectations]

....to keep the defections low. This is ridiculous....a 2.8" screen? I truly believe that Verizon is behind all these rumors to keep their customers as long as they can. "I'll just wait a few more months and Verizon will get the iPhone."

Low blow....very deceitful.

I really love the new $350 Termination Fee. What other surprises await us at Verizon?

[MarximusMG]

Bring on the Verizon iPhone!

Q3 2010 - just in time for when I am due for a new phone upgrade. :)

Me too!

Best news I've heard on this site for a while!

[Full of Win]

I would so drop ATT. Their 3G coverage is beyond bad, its an obscenity.

[fox10078]

Speed is the key for the iphone. Which is why i think ATT will remain. Faster Network> Greater Coverage.
All you people hate so much, I've never had one problem with coverage.

[quattro247]

Well, see ya later AT&T....and your crappy, unreliable service

[MacFly123]

I have a good feeling this story is right on. Apple is all about simplicity, and a device that runs on CDMA2000 or GSM seems to make a world of sense. I'm so ready for a Verizon iPhone! :D

I think it makes perfect sense too. I thought they would have to wait till 4G, but with this new chip, there is no reason for them not to! The people making this chip had pretty much ONE target in mind :)

And now the world will be flooded with the iPhone!!! HU HUUA HUAAAA!!! :D

Next up... TABLET! :cool:

I'm all for a Verizon iPhone, but please don't shrink the screen size. Or at least have the option to purchase the larger screen size.

Just don't make the screen size smaller. That would be disappointing....big time.

Verizon iPhone would be interesting... but I don't see them ever shrinking the screen size. That just doesn't make sense. If anything, it would be getting slightly bigger.

*Shrink* the screen? Seriously? Anybody who believes that must be nuts.

I will be BEYOND PISSED if they shrink the screen size. :mad: If anything there would be two models, one a bit smaller, and one a little bigger than now! I could possibly see them doing that with the Tablet coming out as the "full size" option.

[kashimo]

Couldn't this also open the way for the iPhone to be sold by other Japanese carriers like Au and DoCoMo?

[jecapaga]

I would so drop ATT. Their 3G coverage is beyond bad, its an obscenity.

It's because of Obama.

[Maserati7200]

Hmm, why would Verizon want the iPhone? Do they forget all of the stuff the iPhone 'iDoesn't'?

Who said Verizon wanted this? This rumor shows us that Apple may be building phones that use the same type of network Verizon does. Verizon isn't the only carrier that uses CDMA, this may be something wordwide. It's just that some people infer this as Verizon itself but that may not be the case.


And in all honesty, I don't believe this rumor.

[inkswamp]

Hmm, why would Verizon want the iPhone? Do they forget all of the stuff the iPhone 'iDoesn't'?

Hmm, why would Apple use Intel chips? Do they forget all of the stuff they said about Intel in their ads?

It's just marketing and advertising. It doesn't really mean anything in the long-term.

[klrobinson999]

I'm hopeful that they'll expand the iPhone to all 4 of the major U.S. wireless carriers. Certainly Sprint needs a boost (and they have a fine 3G network, even if limited), and T-Mobile is expanding their various networks. People should have a choice...BlackBerry has different phones for each carrier, but I couldn't see Apple drastically altering their phone or offering different versions.

Competition is a good thing.

[La Porta]

Verizon = I'll finally buy one.

[techfreak85]

But anyways... If this is true....:D:D:D
I will be so happy. Right now my Env is being held together by duct tape.

[bug67]

Boo on the smaller screen. Yay on different networks.

[Krizoitz]

Hmm, why would Apple use Intel chips? Do they forget all of the stuff they said about Intel in their ads?

It's just marketing and advertising. It doesn't really mean anything in the long-term.

There was a pretty decent lag time between when Apple took on the Intel chips and when they finally made the switch. In that time the Intel chips caught up with and then began to beat the PowerPC chips, especially since IBM wasn't developing any models that made sense for the non-high end devices.

Verizon on the other hand is taking major swipes at the iPhone RIGHT NOW. I can't imagine they would have focused quite so much attack on the iPhone itself if it looked like Verizon would be getting the iPhone anytime soon.

[mathcolo]

If Apple could get to the point where they still only had one global model (well, back to the point, after the China fiasco), but they can even sell to the American and Korean CDMA markets, that would be quite impressive....

I dunno about 2.8"... I'd sort of rather it just get a touch thinner and maybe take a fractional amount of size off the sides -- games will be harder to play on a smaller screen. But we'll see.

You're right, the smaller screen size would make games harder to play. But, on the other hand, I'm all for trusting Apple's design decisions and in the end I think we'll get a product that we love :D

[jav6454]

Shrunken screen? I took this report seriously because of the hybrid GSM/CDMA chip. However, after reading that the screen would be shrunk, I guess its another rumor is the rumor mill that will never come to happen.

The screen is fine as is, any smaller, makes many things a hassle or impossible to do, any bigger, the phone looses a bit of appeal to me. 3.5" is perfect.

As for Verizon, they can burn in hell. After the little stunt they are pulling with the Droid ads, well, I guess Mr. Jobs will be hesitant to make business with a company that is just now bashing one of Apple's great products.

[DaBrain]

Just don't make the screen size smaller. That would be disappointing....big time.

Yeah! I don't understand that one bit. Not a good move if True! :rolleyes:

[cmaier]

No way they're shrinking the screen size, unless it's to sell some $99 or fully subsidized version alongside the real thing. (iPhone/iPhone Pro, anybody?)

[Eddyisgreat]

As for Verizon, they can burn in hell. After the little stunt they are pulling with the Droid ads, well, I guess Mr. Jobs will be hesitant to make business with a company that is just now bashing one of Apple's great products.

Money doesn't take sides. If SJ can convince Verizon to give up their grip on phone crippling and maybe slip em' a bit of the vintage apple koolaid hidden in the back, it could become a beautiful pairing.

[AidenShaw]

Hmm, why would Verizon want the iPhone? Do they forget all of the stuff the iPhone 'iDoesn't'?

Verizon sells all kinds of phones - so every ad they have for any phone is a "knock" against their other phones.


As for Verizon, they can burn in hell. After the little stunt they are pulling with the Droid ads, well, I guess Mr. Jobs will be hesitant to make business with a company that is just now bashing one of Apple's great products.

You don't think that Jobs would be a fan of clever advertising that pokes fun at a competitor's weak spots?

[apple101]

I'm due for a phone (October 2009) update and this Verizon iPhone better be good, if and when it comes out.

[jav6454]

Money doesn't take sides. If SJ can convince Verizon to give up their grip on phone crippling and maybe slip em' a bit of the vintage apple koolaid hidden in the back, it could become a beautiful pairing.

It won't be a beautiful pairing.... remember, the only reason to open up is to promote competition. Verizon isn't going to be competitive. Their prices are the same as AT&T's. Please don't use the coverage excuse. Each carrier has their strong and weak markets.

As for competitively, it'd be better if they open the iPhone to T-Mobile, who's rates are way lower than AT&T's and whose network is very well built (see Project Dark or whatever they are calling to make T-Mobile's network support speeds of up to 21.4 Mb/s.)

True T-Mobile doesn't have that much 3G coverage, but face it, they would be a better choice. Not to mention all that would be required is the same chip with different EM-Wave support (1700Mhz).

[tmiw]

Money doesn't take sides. If SJ can convince Verizon to give up their grip on phone crippling and maybe slip em' a bit of the vintage apple koolaid hidden in the back, it could become a beautiful pairing.

The Droid isn't crippled to my knowledge, so they already have. I don't think they should make a CDMA version because the entire world should be on one mobile standard (if not GSM/UMTS, then LTE). We'll probably see a Verizon iPhone only after their LTE network gets rolled out.

[RazHyena]

Verizon iPhone = Good
Android = Better


Too little, too late. Android is in the house. And hopefully on a better looking phone by then. :D

[cshamis]

IPeople should have a choice...
Competition is a good thing.

People have a choice. They have to CHOOSE either At&t or ... not having the iPhone. That's the choice.

What you're proposing is to level the playing field by putting the iPhone on all 4 carriers. Which isn't "choosing" anything. It's the exact opposite.

The competition, enhancements, and improvements that the iPhone sparked in Verizon, Sprint, T-Mo, RiM, Nokia, Samsung, and Motorola has been *unprecedented* in the history of mobile communications. And that's because it knocked the competition completely on their butts, and made *everything* they had look like it was twenty years old. The iPhone has been out for nearly 2 and a half years and they're *STILL* trying to catch up.

I say, let them wither and die on the vine. If they can't beat the iPhone on their own, then they (and the carriers) deserve to die.

[rlreif]

As for competitively, it'd be better if they open the iPhone to T-Mobile, who's rates are way lower than AT&T's and whose network is very well built (see Project Dark or whatever they are calling to make T-Mobile's network support speeds of up to 21.4 Mb/s.)

True T-Mobile doesn't have that much 3G coverage, but face it, they would be a better choice. Not to mention all that would be required is the same chip with different EM-Wave support (1700Mhz).

this rumour doesnt rule that out. The rumour is for a chip that is capable of running on UMTS and CDMA.... this means that with that chip, the iphone could be on all 4 US majors (just edge on T-mob unless, as you point out there is a minor addition of 1700mhz UMTS support)

this is what has happened in canada since bell and telus went UMTS, now the 4 canadian majors all have the iphone (or will by the end of this year)
we'll see if the competition there ends up being good for prices

[cshamis]

Please don't use the coverage excuse. Each carrier has their strong and weak markets.

I know, aren't those "map" commercials a riot. Good to know that Verizon spent all that money running 3G coverage to every square inch of North America... even the parts that are UNINHABITED!

[Cleverboy]

This is all a part of Verizon's marketing push. They've now begun to get initial feedback on Droid, and the picture is not as rosey as they'd hoped. In a radical shift, through their Vodaphone-related network of lackeys and snitches, they've managed to pump new life into the virtually zombified rumor that they'd ever get the iPhone. All of this confusion only serves to create a cloud over AT&T, and drive consumers toward Verizon. Concerned over Droid sales, Verizon has increased cancellation fees to $350. Once they get Droid customers, rumors of a Verizon iPhone will keep the dissatisfied mollified until the awful truth comes out (unless Verizon can change Apple's course). The awful truth could be anything, considering Apple hasn't yet decided anything. Sprint perhaps? Who knows.

Were Apple to throw the iPhone at ALL CARRIERS in the U.S. market... Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon, and AT&T... wouldn't that be a maelstrom. It would certainly guarantee at least one will be offering the phone for $99/$199... thereby forcing the others to match the price through clean competition.

Wouldn't that be simply... messy?

~ CB

[Xavier]

Bring on the Verizon iPhone!

Q3 2010 - just in time for when I am due for a new phone upgrade. :)

Same. I hope its true. Only time will tell. For now, my Versa seems to be holding its own.

[MadMacxxx]

I call BS...

[blipper]

Please don't use the coverage excuse. Each carrier has their strong and weak markets.



I keep seeing this but I have both an iPhone and a Verizon phone and I have traveled around the United States and have very rarely found a place where the ATT coverage wasn't several bars lower than Verizon. Most notable, the Mt. Baker National Wilderness in Washington State. iPhone: no bars in the parking lot at the trailhead at the end of SR 542. Verizon: two bars five miles into the wilderness area. I really would like a list of areas where ATT service is better.

[macfan881]

If this is true its good new my phone contract is up in June think i can hold of till the iPhone comes out and hopefully Verizon wont be to stingy when it comes to improving apps like *Cough google voice or slingbox. cough*

[BVeritas]

Verizon iPhone = Good
Android = Better

Too little, too late. Android is in the house. And hopefully on a better looking phone by then. :D

Yes, people will buy them for awhile, but once they discover these problems, they will grab an iPhone. Most of this is due to the fact that Android phones will vary greatly and Android is open source. What does open source mean, well, that an bunch of incompetent handset manufacturers can mess around with it. It saves them a lot of development, so it's a good deal for them, but not for the poor customers.

1. Apps are not tested, they are just placed in Android Market.

Most apps don't make it through Apple's quality assurance, even though developers know they will be tested. Why does Google do that? Well they would have to do the same thing the developer has to do, test it on all of the Android releases and Android platforms, a big and expensive job. So, instead they let you return the app.

2. Apps can be returned.

Think about it, you're paying a few bucks at the AppStore, but you know it will run, since it's been tested by Apple. But, because Google doesn't test them, they have to let you return them. Yes, maybe you buy a few apps for a few bucks that aren't what you expected, but that hurts the bottom line for any developer. If we were talking about big bucks, it's reasonable, for a few bucks, it's not.

3. Android phones will hardly ever be able to be updated to a new OS release.

Apple will occasionally insist that you test your app on a new release or have it removed from the AppStore. So, if Apple cannot guarantee upwards compatibility, what are the chances that Android releases will allow previous apps to work. Do you think a developer could possibly test all of these combinations.

4. Apps are easily pirated.

Android phones cannot be locked. One of the reasons that Apple fights unlocking is to prevent pirating. If you unlock your iPhone, you cannot purchase apps from the AppStore. Apps on Android have no DRM, so it's relatively easy to pirate them (even if it had DRM, it's not that difficult). So, we know that any app that costs anything will be stolen.

So, in the end the user will get buggy apps. Developers will have their hard work stolen. Users will be stuck with whatever OS release comes with their phone.

[f1]

this rumour doesnt rule that out. The rumour is for a chip that is capable of running on UMTS and CDMA.... this means that with that chip, the iphone could be on all 4 US majors (just edge on T-mob unless, as you point out there is a minor addition of 1700mhz UMTS support)

this is what has happened in canada since bell and telus went UMTS, now the 4 canadian majors all have the iphone (or will by the end of this year)
we'll see if the competition there ends up being good for prices

Yes, all major national canadian carriers carry the iphone now as of yesterday. But the competition has done nothing for prices. Bell and Telus who just started carrying the iphone as of yesterday have priced their plans pretty much the same and in some cases higher then Rogers/Fido who have carried the iphone since the launch of the 3G version.

[tmiw]

1. Apps are not tested, they are just placed in Android Market.

As someone with an app on the App Store, Apple's quality testing isn't as stringent as you'd think. And the approval process is still more inconsistent and arbitrary than it should be.

2. Apps can be returned.

Can't argue with this. It's more of a policy thing than anything legal, though.

3. Android phones will hardly ever be able to be updated to a new OS release.

The G1 has gotten every new release of Android as they have come out. The phones with custom UIs on top of Android, on the other hand, will be a bit slower to come out, as you'd expect.

4. Apps are easily pirated.

Jailbreaking allows this, too, and not even resorting to the levels Microsoft does to protect their software will completely eliminate the problem.

IMHO, I think people will keep buying into both platforms, as long as they keep being improved upon.

[RazHyena]

Yes, people will buy them for awhile, but once they discover these problems, they will grab an iPhone. Most of this is due to the fact that Android phones will vary greatly and Android is open source. What does open source mean, well, that an bunch of incompetent handset manufacturers can mess around with it. It saves them a lot of development, so it's a good deal for them, but not for the poor customers.

1. Apps are not tested, they are just placed in Android Market.

Most apps don't make it through Apple's quality assurance, even though developers know they will be tested. Why does Google do that? Well they would have to do the same thing the developer has to do, test it on all of the Android releases and Android platforms, a big and expensive job. So, instead they let you return the app.

2. Apps can be returned.

Think about it, you're paying a few bucks at the AppStore, but you know it will run, since it's been tested by Apple. But, because Google doesn't test them, they have to let you return them.

3. Android phones will hardly ever be able to be updated to a new OS release.

Apple will occasionally insist that you test your app on a new release or have it removed from the AppStore. So, if Apple cannot guarantee upwards compatibility, what are the chances that Android releases will allow previous apps to work.

4. Apps are easily pirated.

Android phones cannot be locked. One of the reasons that Apple fights unlocking is to prevent pirating. If you unlock your iPhone, you cannot purchase apps from the AppStore. Apps on Android have no DRM, so it's relatively easy to pirate them (even if it had DRM, it's not that difficult). So, we know that any app that costs anything will be stolen.

So, in the end the user will get buggy apps. Developers will have their hard work stolen. Users will be stuck with whatever OS release comes with their phone.

When you say "tested" I'm guessing you're talking about Apple's ludicrous policies on app submission. I'm also guessing you believe the lack thereof will result in buggy applications. Somewhat true, but I'll take it over Apple's app store any day. At least the consumer will have the option, and developers will not be hindered by a ridiculous submission process. (GV, remember?)

As for the pirating, what did you expect? :rolleyes:

"3. Android phones will hardly ever be able to be updated to a new OS release."

Source or I call BS on this.

[reiggin]

I'm sure it's just coincidence that this was "leaked" on the same day that the Android was released.

[BVeritas]

As someone with an app on the App Store, Apple's quality testing isn't as stringent as you'd think. And the approval process is still more inconsistent and arbitrary than it should be.

IMHO, I think people will keep buying into both platforms, as long as they keep being improved upon.

Very nice response. Common courtesy is still alive. Thanks.

I get regular reports regarding crashes (etc). No such thing will happen with Android to assure quality.

Can't imagine folks accepting downloading buggy apps. After completely testing on the emulator, I found a lot of differences moving to a real device. Without being able to test on all devices, apps are bound to fail.

[vvebsta]

Apple needs to be on a network that will grow with its demands. 4G+, worldwide usability, stronger connection... these things are what Apple will be looking for when AT&Ts contract expires.

[Prom1]

Voted negative.

I'd MUCH rather see Apple use:
Quadband: GSM/GPRS/EDGE &
Quadband: UMTS (850/1700/1900/2100Mhz which supports NAM AWS for T-Mobile). Sure they'll get quick cash for a few months but is it not true that Verizon will have LTE running by mid/end of 2010 and pushing it in earnest BIG time?

[bedifferent]

It's because of Obama.

HA awesome :cool:

[scottness]

a smaller screen size is NOT going to lure me to VW

[MrSEC]

Hmm, why would Verizon want the iPhone? Do they forget all of the stuff the iPhone 'iDoesn't'?

It's called business.

[BVeritas]

As for the pirating, what did you expect? :rolleyes:

"3. Android phones will hardly ever be able to be updated to a new OS release."

Source or I call BS on this.

My app has not been pirated, you actually can protect them. But, I will admit that if someone was willing to put in an tremendous amount of effort, they 'might' be able to do it. So, my next upgrade simply forces them to do it again.

Think about your second comment. It is common to have an API denigrated, and since Apple forced me to test this possibility, what are the odds that a bunch of handset makers will keep upwards compatibility.

Here's a reference with similar concerns.

Upgrade Path to Android 2.0 Uncertain

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/181513/upgrade_path_to_android_20_uncertain.html

[Jayomat]

3. Android phones will hardly ever be able to be updated to a new OS release.


huhhhh??? why is that?

[RazHyena]

My app has not been pirated, you actually can protect them. But, I will admit that if someone was willing to put in an tremendous amount of effort, they 'might' be able to do it. So, my next upgrade simply forces them to do it again.

Think about your second comment. It is common to have an API denigrated, and since Apple forced me to test this possibility, what are the odds that a bunch of handset makers will keep upwards compatibility.

Pretty high, I'd say. Android has such incredible potential, but only time will tell if it can put a considerable dent in iPhone's market share. Personally I'm in no financial situation to get a new smartphone, so I have to wait anyway. :D

[Rocketman]

The timing indicates Apple is giving AT&T a "fair chance" as "loyalty" to their arrangement. Here's my theory why.

A year from now AT&T will have had time to provision all cell towers for fiber bandwidth. Most towers will have been made live for LTE or provisioned for it. The "all protocol" iPhone despite this fact being omitted from this story, MUST have LTE to be "all protocol".

As we all know so well Apple tends to abandon "old" technology. When LTE is here EDGE will be very old and the other protocols will be pretty old.

Apple may maintain "all protocol" compatibility in iPhone late 2010 but the emphasis will be LTE.

One wonders what else is in store. AT&T is doing MASSIVE network upgrades, has been for a couple of years, and plans to for a couple years forward.

Rocketman

[ski2moro]

I have a question for you cellphone signal knowledgeable types.

IF this rumored iPhone is released AND IF it is possible to stay with AT&T, do you think that you could jump on a CDMA band if the GMS signal was not available, or will you have to pick one band or the other when you activate the iPhone?

I live in a low population density area and LTE isn't coming to my area anytime soon.

[macidiot]

Verizon iPhone would be interesting... but I don't see them ever shrinking the screen size. That just doesn't make sense. If anything, it would be getting slightly bigger.


I'm fine with shrinking the screen if it means the phone is smaller and resolution stays the same or increases.

[BVeritas]

Pretty high, I'd say. Android has such incredible potential, but only time will tell if it can put a considerable dent in iPhone's market share. Personally I'm in no financial situation to get a new smartphone, so I have to wait anyway. :D

Here's a reference with similar concerns.

Upgrade Path to Android 2.0 Uncertain

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/181513/upgrade_path_to_android_20_uncertain.html

[Cleverboy]

Yes, people will buy them for awhile, but once they discover these problems, they will grab an iPhone. Most of this is due to the fact that Android phones will vary greatly and Android is open source. What does open source mean, well, that an bunch of incompetent handset manufacturers can mess around with it. It saves them a lot of development, so it's a good deal for them, but not for the poor customers.[--snip--]

1. Apps are not tested, they are just placed in Android Market.[--snip--]
2. Apps can be returned.[--snip--]
3. Android phones will hardly ever be able to be updated to a new OS release.[--snip--]
4. Apps are easily pirated.[--snip--]

So, in the end the user will get buggy apps. Developers will have their hard work stolen. Users will be stuck with whatever OS release comes with their phone. Interesting points, but I don't like your reasoning. If you run the numbers, Apple's 40 testers need to go through an unnatural amount of apps. I don't think they're a QA department. Google has automated the process, like they do so many things.

At the end of the day, ANY company that offers refunds on digital products (that actually work) is flirting with financial ruin (or a money-losing business). Physical stores DO NOT give refunds on opened software for a reason.

Here, I'll create my own list of "why Android will fail to overtake the iPhone as best SmartPhone OS/platform" items:

1. It deals with SD cards, requiring software to do a "double-install" for media rich apps (to get at all the space on the SD card, as the internal ROM for apps is very small). It's like comparing PS3 installs to the Xbox install. On the PS3, you wait for the download, THEN you have to perform a lengthy install process. On XBox, download/install is one process that is continuous.

2. Uninstalling apps is a bad joke, and impossible for consumers to really enjoy (very Windows-esque).

3. As a media player, Droid/Android sucks. Can you start/stop your media player music inside of any app? No. There is hardly any "experience" refinement past its excellent multitasking/notifications handling and with 2.0, great contact integration.

4. Support. There are no Apple Genius' to help you with your Android phone. Consumer devices are ALL about customer service. This is why Apple has created an easy way to backup your entire phone, so that if there's a problem, they simply hand you a new one, and you restore your phone at home.

5. Media management (music, podcasts, videos, tv shows, movies). On the Android... its positively geek-tastic... or geek-a-licious. Whichever you prefer. That translates to "not consumer-friendly". I really hand Apple a LOT of credit for trying to move a "standard" forward that it supports through its ecosystem. Close-captioning, chapters, and now iTunes LP and Extras? They're almost single-handedly solving problems that have gone unsolved in the digital media industry for too long (and navigating through a gazillion patent lawsuits while they're at it).

The Android OS "upgrade" thing is sort-of true, but mostly not. I think most Android users have been upgrading, although that seemed questionable earlier on with T-Mobile's G1. The "space requirements" become a HUGE issue though. Moreover, there is NO FINANCIAL INCENTIVE for carriers to assist or support older phones "upgrading" to each new Android version. Why should they? With Apple... hey, why not, its more value to its platform. Google would gain value... not the carriers. But its not UP to just Google.

Personally, Apple's "side-loading" model has it right. Handling updates, backups, media sync, activation, and management through the desktop media player is EXCELLENT. Android will NEVER (well, never say never I guess)... but Android would be hard pressed to duplicate these features.

Personally, I think Google should acquire the SongBird team, and push "SongBird" as its media player of choice, and use it to handle Android backups, update, and management issues.

I run a Mac these days. If the management of my phone can't even kick me back to my Palm Desktop 4.0 days, then I'm going to cry foul. I don't want to go backwards.

~ CB

[Rocketman]

I have a question for you cellphone signal knowledgeable types.

IF this rumored iPhone is released AND IF it is possible to stay with AT&T, do you think that you could jump on a CDMA band if the GMS signal was not available, or will you have to pick one band or the other when you activate the iPhone?

I live in a low population density area and LTE isn't coming to my area anytime soon.

This is not a technology question but a contract question. Since when LTE is out there, both AT&T and Verizon will have it, they will have to have roaming agreements. At that point they might as well have entire network roaming agreements independent of protocol.

So the Verizon ad comparing networks is a "last gasp" of differentiation before a commodity world arrives.

Rocketman

[greygray]

So if the screen size becomes smaller, developers have to rewrite their apps? Well done indeed. :rolleyes:

[elgrecomac]

I also do not think Jobs will forgive Verizon for slamming his prize baby.

Jobs is a very smart guy. He made 'nice' with Microsoft so they wouldn't stop Office development a few years ago because he knew it could kill the Mac in the business world. He will also make 'nice' with Verizon because he is very well informed and knows there is a massive amount of dissatisfied people with ATT's network and the weakest part of the iphone is ATT. With millions of US customer pissed off at ATT,Verizon is a lock: iphones on the two largest networks in the USA? Just a small part of the world domination plan Jobs has put in motion.
:cool:

P.S. if the iphone has not migrated to Verizon when my 2 year contract is up in July 2010, well, it'll be good bye iphone and hello Droid....I need a phone with a signal, not 'searching'.

[Speedy2]

Not gonna happen. None of it.

[BVeritas]

Personally, Apple's "side-loading" model has it right. Handling updates, backups, media sync, activation, and management through the desktop media player is EXCELLENT. Android will NEVER (well, never say never I guess)... but Android would be hard pressed to duplicate these features.

Great point. Who will ever create a sync mechanism and it certainly is not going to work well across multiple vendors.

Oh, who can forget iTunes. A Google music search doesn't really qualify, although I like being able to do it.

[Rot'nApple]

*Shrink* the screen? Seriously? Anybody who believes that must be nuts.

Then I guess Steve Jobs is nuts! :D

He did it (shrink) with the iPod, iMac, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, Apple packaging of their products. He'll do it to the iPhone!

I'm not saying that I agree or think it is a smart move. I'm just saying the man has an thickness anti-infatuation. Thin is sexy to him. We gotta get used to it. Steve probably has something up his sleeve to help all the people that will be going blind trying to look at an ever shrinking screen of information! :D

[BVeritas]

Jobs is a very smart guy. He made 'nice' with Microsoft so they wouldn't stop Office development a few years ago because he knew it could kill the Mac in the business world. He will also make 'nice' with Verizon because he is very well informed and knows there is a massive amount of dissatisfied people with ATT's network and the weakest part of the iphone is ATT. With millions of US customer pissed off at ATT,Verizon is a lock: iphones on the two largest networks in the USA? Just a small part of the world domination plan Jobs has put in motion.
:cool:

P.S. if the iphone has not migrated to Verizon when my 2 year contract is up in July 2010, well, it'll be good bye iphone and hello Droid....

You've got to 'know' your history. MS threatened to stop making Office for the Mac to force Apple to drop their suit for stealing the Mac interface.

In those days, there was no history of software copyrights or patents, so Apple had not choice. Robber Barons always use the same tactics.

My favorite 'Robber Barons' story was done by Stanford. They used to be called the Indians, which was not PC so they asked the students for a new name. They decided that 'Robber Barons' was appropriate for Leland Stanford. Clearly, as always, the students were ignored, although I like Cardinals.

[bradl]

Jobs is a very smart guy. He made 'nice' with Microsoft so they wouldn't stop Office development a few years ago because he knew it could kill the Mac in the business world. He will also make 'nice' with Verizon because he is very well informed and knows there is a massive amount of dissatisfied people with ATT's network and the weakest part of the iphone is ATT. With millions of US customer pissed off at ATT,Verizon is a lock: iphones on the two largest networks in the USA? Just a small part of the world domination plan Jobs has put in motion.
:cool:


Uhh.. why the hell would Jobs need to 'make nice' with a company that did him wrong by laughing him out of the building when he pitched the iPhone to them originally? It isn't his obligation to 'make nice with them', but in fact the opposite. Verizon needs to kiss his arse, clean the floors of his house with a toothbrush, and serve him food every day for the next 2 years in an Apple+ATT french maid outfit to get the iPhone over to them. They screwed up, not Jobs.


P.S. if the iphone has not migrated to Verizon, well, when my 2 year contract is up in July 2010, good bye iphone and hello Droid....

Have fun with the Droid. I'll gladly use your bandwidth for you. ;)

BL.

[Diseal3]

As long as ATT gets the better model and continues subsidized pricing, I dont care. All i know is im not paying 700$ for a phone. But i really dont think this is gonna happen.

[str1f3]

This rumor is such garbage. Why?

-exactly where is the info coming from? Apple hasn't even rolled out production on the new model and no carrier would have even seen the phone yet. The are only a few handful of people that even have an idea of what the next-gen iPhone will look like. The original iLounge photos were just potential prototypes that were obviously never used.

-a 2.8in screen LOL, please. While the screen could retain the same 480x320 resolution, there would other problems that would come up such as a smaller keyboard, harder to read screen (most difficult on older people) and harder to use gestures. Apple likes to keep symmetry across its product and introducing a screen in size similar to a 5G iPod video is ridiculous.

-Even Verizon themselves said the ball is in Apple's court and no deal has officially been reached. Does this report from a company I've never heard of suddenly know something that a CEO doesn't? If Verizon and Apple would have had a deal in place the CEO would have still denied the story but would have let it out through unofficial channels that the iPhone would come to Verizon. He would be barely able to contain the glee and he'd want to keep as many subscriber as possible.


Every year these nonsensical rumors come out just for page hits and they never turn out to be right. This is just another case.

[schwell]

....to keep the defections low. This is ridiculous....a 2.8" screen? I truly believe that Verizon is behind all these rumors to keep their customers as long as they can. "I'll just wait a few more months and Verizon will get the iPhone."

Low blow....very deceitful.

I really love the new $350 Termination Fee. What other surprises await us at Verizon?

Yeah the timing of the Verizon map for that commericials, the $350 early termination fee, the droid launch and now another iPhone on Verizon rumor really scream desperation.

I hope Apple does not offer iPhone on Verizon. It would be hilarious if they offered it on Sprint and T-Mobile and left Verizon twisting in the wind.

[tdar]

This is all a part of Verizon's marketing push. They've now begun to get initial feedback on Droid, and the picture is not as rosey as they'd hoped. In a radical shift, through their Vodaphone-related network of lackeys and snitches, they've managed to pump new life into the virtually zombified rumor that they'd ever get the iPhone. All of this confusion only serves to create a cloud over AT&T, and drive consumers toward Verizon. Concerned over Droid sales, Verizon has increased cancellation fees to $350. Once they get Droid customers, rumors of a Verizon iPhone will keep the dissatisfied mollified until the awful truth comes out (unless Verizon can change Apple's course). The awful truth could be anything, considering Apple hasn't yet decided anything. Sprint perhaps? Who knows.

Were Apple to throw the iPhone at ALL CARRIERS in the U.S. market... Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon, and AT&T... wouldn't that be a maelstrom. It would certainly guarantee at least one will be offering the phone for $99/$199... thereby forcing the others to match the price through clean competition.

Wouldn't that be simply... messy?

~ CB

YES! it would- and why in the world would they want to do that and bring downward pressure to their phone's price. Don't worry the VZ iPhone will be priced at 199 \299 just like now.

[puckhead193]

eh time will tell... I hope verizon gets the iphone, i think its a great device but att service is terrible. Until then i'll stick with my crackberry :)

[GutBomb]

So if the screen size becomes smaller, developers have to rewrite their apps? Well done indeed. :rolleyes:

I'm hoping they don't shrink the screen size because a smaller screen would suck, but they can change the size of the screen without changing the resolution. There could be the same amount of pixels, the pixels would just be smaller.

[twoodcc]

2.8" screen? i hope not

[klrobinson999]

given the flack AT&T is getting, especially in major markets, Apple would be insane to continue exclusivity unless there is a major upgrade.

I love the idea of offering the iPhone on just AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint.
I can see the ad-line below the iPhone pics now:

"iDon't do Verizon"

[BVeritas]

2.8" screen? i hope not

So, if Apple comes out with a tablet that runs all those apps on a 'big' screen, perhaps some folks who either have bad eyes or like big will have a solution.

I've written apps for the iPhone and don't even own one, the iPod Touch worked very well and the price was right.

How can I do that with an Android?

If all that seems obtuse, the bottom line is that having an ecosystem beats having one pony.

[Stella]

Seems a total waste - to enable 5 people who do use CDMA - use the iPhone.

No one uses CDMA, they never did and never will.. its a strange standard that was never significant in away way, shape or form. GSM was always the mainstream.

CDMA networks should upgrade to at least HSPA, so the regular iPhone and other HSPA compatible phones can be used.

[tdar]

given the flack AT&T is getting, especially in major markets, Apple would be insane to continue exclusivity unless their is a major upgrade.

I love the idea of offering the iPhone on just AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint.
I can see the ad-line below the iPhone pics now:

"iDon't do Verizon"

How about iDon't do the largest network with 80 million+ users.....

Seems a total waste - to enable 5 people who do use CDMA - use the iPhone.

No one uses CDMA, they never did and never will.. its a strange standard that was never significant in away way, shape or form. GSM was always the mainstream.

CDMA networks should upgrade to at least HSPA.


Are you nuts? See above were I reminded that VZ has over 80 million users....and that does not even cover Sprint or users on CDMA outside of the US.....But they will be upgrading to LTE ....Just like the HPSA networks will.

[Rocketman]

So if the screen size becomes smaller, developers have to rewrite their apps? Well done indeed. :rolleyes:
Screen densities are increasing. Jobs is obsessed with smaller. He will not be satisfied till we are all wearing Dick Tracy watches with HD heads-up displays. Hmmmm . . . . Hey . . . . .

Rocketman :D

I hope you don't need reading glasses.

[macshill]

I'm fine with shrinking the screen if it means the phone is smaller and resolution stays the same or increases.

But the (Motorola) Droid blows the iPhone away in resolution. The Zune HD already sports a OLED screen. Apple's lagging here. Can't make it ANY smaller.

Of course the iPhone's always allowed to adopt an already established higher resolution... but when it's the other way around, it's fanboy "you're late to the party" blabbering and "come up w/ your own ideas and stop copying Apple's!" that sickens me. ;)

"Why I'm not getting a Droid today":
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/11/no-droid-for-me/

[greygray]

So, if Apple comes out with a tablet that runs all those apps on a 'big' screen, perhaps some folks who either have bad eyes or like big will have a solution.

I've written apps for the iPhone and don't even own one, the iPod Touch worked very well and the price was right.

How can I do that with an Android?

If all that seems obtuse, the bottom line is that having an ecosystem beats having one pony.

Which app did you write BTW? Anyway, I agree with you. But I believe the Tablet will be more of a Mac than iPhone device. Apple writes the iPhone and ipod touch software based on Cocoa, and on the Mac OS ecosystem. This results in a more organised and more standardized ecosystem, unlike Android. I still don't see much apps for the Android and the Pre till now.

[cmaier]

I'm fine with shrinking the screen if it means the phone is smaller and resolution stays the same or increases.

I'm not. Smaller text, smaller keyboard. Yuck.

[Mr. Giver '94]

The screen would be a deal breaker for me. I don't think an all touch device with that small of a screen would be acceptable.

iPhone on Verizon does seem odd because of all of the direct iPhone 'slandering' that Verizon has done recently.

Guess we'll have to wait and see. The whole battlefield could change by then. ;)

[profets]

After apple was supposedly initially rejected by Verizon, why would they go modifying or complicating the phone to support 1 more carrier? the only other country that could have benefited was canada with 2 big cdma carriers, but theyve just launched umts/hspa and carry the iphone as well.

i think the most obvious choice would be down the road when apple builds a 4G LTE iphone as nearly all carriers (including Verizon) will be moving to LTE

[BVeritas]

But I believe the Tablet will be more of a Mac than iPhone device.

Hope you're right. I really want both modes to be supported. Sitting in my living room or on the deck running apps or doing Mac stuff, I would love it.

[NoExpectations]

Why would I want to move to Verizon? Their "unlimited" data plan has a limit of 5GB/mo. If I want to add tethering, I need to add another "unlimited" data plan (with another limit of 5GB/mo) for another $30. So, that gives me 2 "unlimited" data plans for $60/mo.

With Verizon, I risk paying a $350 termination fee if I want to cancel my plan.

Also, I am unable to make calls and access the internet at the same time (a CDMA restriction) and there are no plans to increase the speed. You have to wait until 4G is completely rolled out for faster access....many years away.

Even though there is much to complain about AT&T, at least they have the EDGE (2.75G) as a backup to 3G. The EDGE is 100% functionally equivalent to a 3G network (data and voice access at the same time)....only slower. AT&T will also roll out 7.2mbs and then 14mbs over the next few months.

[QCassidy352]

Verizon would be awesome. 3/4 of you would go with them, and those of us left on AT&T would see massive increases in bandwidth. :D

[str1f3]

So, if Apple comes out with a tablet that runs all those apps on a 'big' screen, perhaps some folks who either have bad eyes or like big will have a solution.

I've written apps for the iPhone and don't even own one, the iPod Touch worked very well and the price was right.

How can I do that with an Android?

If all that seems obtuse, the bottom line is that having an ecosystem beats having one pony.

Firstly, iPhone devs should be making their apps resolution independent as I believe that is what Apple suggests. Secondly, a 2.8" screen is a solution to where there is no problem. 2.8" would mean a drastically reduced screen size. The tablet is a totally different product.

[JoeG4]

What you're proposing is to level the playing field by putting the iPhone on all 4 carriers. Which isn't "choosing" anything. It's the exact opposite.


It makes the competition even tougher for Samsung, Sony, Motorola, LG, HTC et all.. especially HTC.

[alec]

Yesssssss. I will be getting an iPhone as soon as it's OABA (on anyone but AT&T).

[XciteMe]

MAN, Apple fanboys have the WORST cases of denial I've ever seen. It reaches levels of delusional schizophrenia.

People saying this is a Verizon-created rumor... YEAH, I'm sure the big wigs at Verizon are taking their valuable time away from running a company and calling shots, so that they can spread rumors like this. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[NoExpectations]

Yesssssss. I will be getting an iPhone as soon as it's OABA (on anyone but AT&T).

Enjoy your trip back to 2001....where voice and data can not coexist together. (CDMA)

[Phlac]

I truly believe that Verizon is behind all these rumors to keep their customers as long as they can. "I'll just wait a few more months and Verizon will get the iPhone."

And all this time, I thought Apple was behind this rumor. "I'll just wait a few more months and the iPhone will run on Verizon, instead of this unbearable AT&T network."

[macidiot]

But the (Motorola) Droid blows the iPhone away in resolution. The Zune HD already sports a OLED screen. Apple's lagging here. Can't make it ANY smaller.

Of course the iPhone's always allowed to adopt an already established higher resolution... but when it's the other way around, it's fanboy "you're late to the party" blabbering and "come up w/ your own ideas and stop copying Apple's!" that sickens me. ;)

"Why I'm not getting a Droid today":
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/11/no-droid-for-me/

Actually, yes they can make it smaller. They could just give it the same pixel density as the droid. Either that or increase the resolution of the present size. Either way, its increasing pixel density.

Having said that, I seriously lol'ed when you wrote Zune HD. Please. The Nokia N-Gage had some interesting and innovative features too. Doesn't mean it wasn't a complete and utter laughingstock failure.

[cmaier]

MAN, Apple fanboys have the WORST cases of denial I've ever seen. It reaches levels of delusional schizophrenia.

People saying this is a Verizon-created rumor... YEAH, I'm sure the big wigs at Verizon are taking their valuable time away from running a company and calling shots, so that they can spread rumors like this. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Denial of what? There have been a million rumors like this that have always been false. It ain't denial, it's playing the odds.

[macidiot]

I'm not. Smaller text, smaller keyboard. Yuck.

When it comes to computing, I'd rather have a 17" screen with 1920 resolution than a 60".

What I'd really rather have is the same 3.5" screen with much higher resolution.

And higher resolution would negate the effect of smaller text. In other words, it would be equally readable.

[HiRez]

Well the smaller screen size could just be the "mini" iPhone model that has been rumored many times now. I don't believe they would only have a smaller screen, maybe two models. Personally, I think it would be hard to use, but I can see how some people might be willing to compromise usability for ultra-compactness (see iPod Shuffle, Mac Mini, 12" PowerBook, etc.). The resolution would have to be the same as the current one, only the pixels would be smaller, but trying to get accurate tap points is iffy.

What I would like is a model with a screen slightly larger (only 10%-15% larger, much of which could come from the existing bezel and blank areas of the face), but a much higher resolution, such as 720x480. That would give sharper antialiasing for text and the ability to show more information when necessary.

[La Porta]

Everyone keeps discussing CDMA, tethering, 3G, speed, multiple data streams, etc. What they haven't touched on is the ability to do what the original purpose of these things are: make a call! I have my 4 year old Verizon cell phone and an iPod Touch for precisely the reason that I NEED my phone to be good at one thing consistently: making calls.

Watching streaming video and all that jazz is all fine and dandy, but if I can't consistently make phone calls, what is the point? Why should I trade in my phone that I have now? Every friend I have that has an iPhone is hooked on it's features, apps, etc, but if I ask them about their calls they say "yeah, it sucks, I drop calls all the time." Or when I call my own mother, and her iPhone drops in and out, but then call my father's phone on Verizon while he is standing less than 2 feet from her and there is no problem at all.

Would I like to combine my iPod Touch and phone into one? Yes. Am I willing to give up being able to make decent, reliable phone calls? No. It's that simple. If Apple can bring the iPhone to Verizon, I don't care what kind of network it is on, so long as I can speak to people with reliability.

[NoExpectations]

MAN, Apple fanboys have the WORST cases of denial I've ever seen. It reaches levels of delusional schizophrenia.

People saying this is a Verizon-created rumor... YEAH, I'm sure the big wigs at Verizon are taking their valuable time away from running a company and calling shots, so that they can spread rumors like this. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

There have been many, many iPhone/Verizon rumors..... for nearly 2 1/2 years now. All false....all determined to keep the Verizon customers from defecting. They just need to keep this up a few more years until their 4G network is fully deployed (prob around 2012-13).

My guess is that T-Mobile will be next.

[Cleverboy]

MAN, Apple fanboys have the WORST cases of denial I've ever seen. It reaches levels of delusional schizophrenia.
People saying this is a Verizon-created rumor... YEAH, I'm sure the big wigs at Verizon are taking their valuable time away from running a company and calling shots, so that they can spread rumors like this. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Just saying... but corporate big wigs can be some powerfully conniving people. I'm a bit shocked that anyone would need to be reminded of that after the last year we've had. You may not want to use "big wig purity and honest grit" as your best argument.

~ CB

[cmaier]

When it comes to computing, I'd rather have a 17" screen with 1920 resolution than a 60".

What I'd really rather have is the same 3.5" screen with much higher resolution.

And higher resolution would negate the effect of smaller text. In other words, it would be equally readable.

I agree entirely.

[deconstruct60]

You've got to 'know' your history.


Are you being sarcastic because what follows is rife with historical inaccuracies.





MS threatened to stop making Office for the Mac to force Apple to drop their suit for stealing the Mac interface.


The GUI suit was resolved in the late 80s or so. The cash injection and commitment to continue Offfice for Mac occurred in the late 90's. There was speculation that Apple caught Microsoft's hands in the cookie jar on several patents (since there was some cross licensing that happened with that deal also). At the time Microsoft needed a healthy Apple to help offset the DOJ antitrust battle they were in ( try not to appear to be as much of a overbearing monopoly. )






In those days, there was no history of software copyrights or patents, so Apple had not choice. Robber Barons always use the same tactics.


Wow... that's so inaccurate don't even know where to start with that.


My favorite 'Robber Barons' story was done by Stanford. They used to be called the Indians, which was not PC so they asked the students for a new name. They decided that 'Robber Barons' was appropriate for Leland Stanford. Clearly, as always, the students were ignored, although I like Cardinals.

It is Cardinal ( the color ).
Part of the push for "Robber Baron" was likely because it was an name that the University would not accept. Part of the drop Indians backlash (since students voted times to reinstate it also. )

[XciteMe]

LOLwut? Not saying CEO big wigs are pure and honest, at all... But they have priorities and they have jobs to do, and right around the launch of a heavily marketed major phone on their network, I don't think "spreading rumors to keep customers" is on their To-Do list. :rolleyes:

Why can't you fanboys just ADMIT that this may be a plausible rumor with depth to it??? What strikes me as funny is Apple fanboys will be the FIRST to embrace a rumor about Apple vaporware that will never see the light of day, and shout from the hills about how awesome "Product X" from Apple will be... But any other rumor about any other company's product, is met with "************! LIES!"

Double standard much? :rolleyes:

[cmaier]

Why can't you fanboys just ADMIT that this may be a plausible rumor with depth to it???

Because we've heard the same rumor for 2 years and it hasn't been true, that's why.

[aristotle]

This is not happening. Verizon and Sprint are the two major CDMA2000 holdouts in the world and Verizon is going LTE in 2011. Bell and Telus just launched HSPA+ Networks and the iPhone 3GS and they were just CDMA2000 before. Although they will still maintain a CDMA2000 network for existing customers, both companies are advertising their HSPA+ network as a being superior to their CDMA2000 network not only in the number of devices available but also speed which is supposed to reach 21 Mbps.

The US is now falling way behind Canada technologically as we now have Rogers/Fido and Telus/Bell HSPA+ networks running at a maximum speed of 21 Mbps. The latter network is even larger in most areas than Rogers/Fido and they are exclusively 3G+. There is no Edge on their network.

I'd like to get my fellow Canadians to join me in petitioning the CRTC to force carriers to unlock all phones including the iPhone 3GS for a reasonable fee if requested by a customer who as either:
a) purchased the phone at full price or
b) has completed their contract term on a subsidized phone

I paid over 7 hundred dollars for my iPhone 3GS and I should be allowed to put any sim I want in it without having to jailbreak it. Who is with me?

[whatever]

I must be the luckiest iPhone user ever. I've never had a drop call on my iPhone. Compared to my last carrier (Verizon) AT&T is so much better. In fact my iPhone is the first cell phone that I can actually make a call from in my house. I travel the 50 states for work and it just works every where. And I spend a lot of time in San Francisco too!

I wouldn't be surprised to see the iPhone appear on TMobile, but never on Verizon. The Droid is a flavor of the month phone for Verizon. They will ignore it and Motorola when another better phone comes out. Apple does not want to deal with that type of crap. Apple wants to partner with a company who will stand behind a product for 1 year. Verizon is not that company.

[Uabcar]

6/2010: new G4 Iphone= new 3.8" screen
9/2010: new G1 Iphone mini = 2.8" screen

[darthraige]

This is a joke. My Verizon contract is up in January. Hmmmmm, I may have to purchase the Droid, but my dilemma is that I don't want to purchase crappy Apps that most likely wont be compatible with the iPhone. What to do? Lots of money to spend!

[alongcamejones]

Could it be that shrinking the screen of the iPhone is a strategic move to open some marketing space for the coming tablet?

[Xibalba]

....to keep the defections low. This is ridiculous....a 2.8" screen? I truly believe that Verizon is behind all these rumors to keep their customers as long as they can. "I'll just wait a few more months and Verizon will get the iPhone."

Low blow....very deceitful.

I really love the new $350 Termination Fee. What other surprises await us at Verizon?

agree - doesn't seem to make sense with the Decrease in screen size.

is the termination fee really that much now? my wife and i gladly paid $135 each to terminate verizon and move to AT&T for iPhones years ago. (not that we were upset with verizon service because we weren't - but we really wanted/needed the iphone for work and so much more).

[cmaier]

Could it be that shrinking the screen of the iPhone is a strategic move to open some marketing space for the coming tablet?

No

[c-ker]

Read how Verizon is crippling the Droid through excessive charges.

http://www.macworld.com/article/143686/2009/11/droid_tethering.html

That VZW iPhone is going to cost us. Greed keeps the ATT 3G network pathetic and greed is likely to put the monthly charge for an iPhone with true unlimited data on the more robust VZW network north of $100.

[Rocketman]

This whole rumor is based on Qualcomm making a particular chip style. That does not mean Apple will adopt it. It just means Apple "could" adopt it "if" it wanted to go to Verizon. Seriously now, what are the chances of that 6 months before LTE gets large?

Rocketman

[Cleverboy]

LOLwut? Not saying CEO big wigs are pure and honest, at all... But they have priorities and they have jobs to do, and right around the launch of a heavily marketed major phone on their network, I don't think "spreading rumors to keep customers" is on their To-Do list. :rolleyes:

Why can't you fanboys just ADMIT that this may be a plausible rumor with depth to it??? What strikes me as funny is Apple fanboys will be the FIRST to embrace a rumor about Apple vaporware that will never see the light of day, and shout from the hills about how awesome "Product X" from Apple will be... But any other rumor about any other company's product, is met with "************! LIES!"

Double standard much? :rolleyes: Heh. Maybe you can carry on talking to yourself. You seem like you've got it under control without me playing this imaginary "fanboy" role for you. When you find the person resembling your remarks, be sure and talk to them long and hard, so you don't end up making everyone else into them.

~ CB

[BVeritas]

Are you being sarcastic because what follows is rife with historical inaccuracies.

The GUI suit was resolved in the late 80s or so. The cash injection and commitment to continue Offfice for Mac occurred in the late 90's. There was speculation that Apple caught Microsoft's hands in the cookie jar on several patents (since there was some cross licensing that happened with that deal also). At the time Microsoft needed a healthy Apple to help offset the DOJ antitrust battle they were in ( try not to appear to be as much of a overbearing monopoly. )

Wow... that's so inaccurate don't even know where to start with that.

It is Cardinal ( the color ).
Part of the push for "Robber Baron" was likely because it was an name that the University would not accept. Part of the drop Indians backlash (since students voted times to reinstate it also. )

Where were you when the waters parted. LOL

[Glideslope]

The Droid isn't crippled to my knowledge, so they already have. I don't think they should make a CDMA version because the entire world should be on one mobile standard (if not GSM/UMTS, then LTE). We'll probably see a Verizon iPhone only after their LTE network gets rolled out.

I'll simply add that I spent several hours moving about town with the Motorola Droid today. The only function iPhone has on it is iTunes, and it's mediocre media player.

Otherwise it freaking smoked my 3GS. The interface of 2.0 is really becoming nice. If this continues, by next year Verizon will not take the iPhone. The'll give the bandwidth to Android.

Steve should never have let Erik be on the Board of Directors. :apple:

[joemama]

Well, see ya later AT&T....and your crappy, unreliable service

Totally. I've had more dropped called in 2 months on ATT that 5 years combined on Verizon.

As soon as Verizon gets the iPhone, I'll pay to get OUT of my ATT contract so I can switch.

[macshill]

Actually, yes they can make it smaller. They could just give it the same pixel density as the droid. Either that or increase the resolution of the present size. Either way, its increasing pixel density.

Having said that, I seriously lol'ed when you wrote Zune HD. Please. The Nokia N-Gage had some interesting and innovative features too. Doesn't mean it wasn't a complete and utter laughingstock failure.

Fine. Have it your way. But when the iPhone/iPod Touch gets an OLED screen w/ higher rez and HDMI video-out and when a fanboy here say "stop copying Apple and come up w/ your own ideas", I'll be back to revisit the issue with you. ;)

So how's that flash for the camera for your iPhone workin' out for ya... or the built-in zoom? Or that FM radio? Whoops. Available just lately on the Nano (while every MP3 makers -- even the crappy ones, such as Coby -- have already had it for years now). :D

Ah, the one-way street of hypocrisy when it comes to Apple, eh? :p

*coughs "hockey puck mouse" (among laughingstock failures) coughs*

[inkswamp]

Verizon on the other hand is taking major swipes at the iPhone RIGHT NOW. I can't imagine they would have focused quite so much attack on the iPhone itself if it looked like Verizon would be getting the iPhone anytime soon.

Seems to me that Verizon is taking major swipes at AT&T, not the iPhone.

[DakotaGuy]

I just want to know why anyone in their right mind would not want a choice of carriers for the iPhone? Competition is good. Just because Apple somehow "blessed" AT&T as some kind of an "Apple" company doesn't mean limiting consumer choice is a good thing. They make cell phone radios that will handle all of the different cellular systems in place today so there is no reason that an iPhone can't be universal.

Google is taking the Microsoft route by allowing different hand-set makers and carries use the Android platform. Apple is taking the Mac route by locking the phone down to AT&T. It will be interesting to see in a year or two how things develop. Will Apple start to feel enough pressure to open the iPhone to more carriers or stay with AT&T only? I'm guessing that the iPhone 4G will be ready way before the AT&T 4G network is. AT&T still has a long way to go to finish their 3G network.

[markie]

Say what? That implies that Verizon has a UMTS network. They don't.

[DakotaGuy]

Say what? That implies that Verizon has a UMTS network. They don't.

If Apple used the new Qualcomm hybrid chip they don't need a UMTS network.

[segfaultdotorg]

I thought the exclusivity agreement was 5 years?

AT&T can kiss my butt. I am still waiting for a carrier to provide more minutes and better coverage for less money. Doesn't Moore's Law apply here?

[X38]

Wow, what an incredibly BAD idea! The screen shrink has got to be one of the dumbest suggestions ever and certainly makes this rumor extremely suspect.

Beyond that, I don't see what the point of going with Verizon would be. For one thing, their network can not support simultaneous data and voice calls, which I am finding is one of the really useful features of the 3G & 3GS, especially for business use. For another, all the crying about bad coverage on AT&T is hugely over blown. AT&T works just fine for me everywhere I go. On the other hand, before I got my iPhone I had been on Verizon since they started as GTE and their coverage in my area had gotten so bad that it was far worse than even the most exaggerated complaints about AT&T have described. And then there is the way Verizon handicaps their phones to force customers into unnecessary and unreasonable fees. Trust me, there is nothing to be gained and a great deal to be lost by switching to Verizon. I was more than happy to leave and haven't regretted it in the slightest.

Honestly, I have to wonder if all the folks whining about AT&T are just a bunch of trolls who work for Verizon and are out spreading FUD on the internet in a desperate effort to protect their jobs.

[cmaier]

I thought the exclusivity agreement was 5 years?

AT&T can kiss my butt. I am still waiting for a carrier to provide more minutes and better coverage for less money. Doesn't Moore's Law apply here?

Most of the rumors were that the agreement was 2 years, then extended, but no one knows.

[elhungarian]

I have been impatiently waiting for an Iphone to hit Verizon since 90% of my family and people i call are on it.

BUT

2.8" screen, what am i gonna do with that. People complain about the 3.5" screen. I don't want an Iphone Nano.

$350 termination fee is ridiculous but i don't plan on cancelling and selling the phone on ebay.

Android will eventually get more popular than Iphone once developers sense a decent user base and get even more sick of Apples approval process.

[DakotaGuy]

Honestly, I have to wonder if all the folks whining about AT&T are just a bunch of trolls who work for Verizon and are out spreading FUD on the internet in a desperate effort to protect their jobs.

I am going to make sure I put on my tin foil hat before I go to work at Verizon tomorrow because Verizon programs their cellular signals to go into my brain and force me to say bad things about AT&T.

Seriously though there are many places where Verizon DOES have a much better network and people just want a choice. A lot of people all over the Internet complain about the AT&T network. If it is all Verizon employees doing that then I have no idea how they run a company. (FYI - I don't really work for Verizon)

[aristotle]

If Apple used the new Qualcomm hybrid chip they don't need a UMTS network.
Uh, yeah. It is a bit more complicated than just having the chip. There are other pieces of hardware required as well as a completely different network stack.

[thejakill]

I love my iPhone 3gs and I get great coverage with AT&T here in the IE.

Having said that, apple needs to open the phone up to as many networks as posssible. And the smaller screen is a terrible idea.

[DakotaGuy]

Uh, yeah. It is a bit more complicated than just having the chip. There are other pieces of hardware required as well as a completely different network stack.

So are you saying that it would be too difficult for Apple to do this? Isn't their other companies offering universal handsets already?

[sziehr]

I keep seeing this but I have both an iPhone and a Verizon phone and I have traveled around the United States and have very rarely found a place where the ATT coverage wasn't several bars lower than Verizon. Most notable, the Mt. Baker National Wilderness in Washington State. iPhone: no bars in the parking lot at the trailhead at the end of SR 542. Verizon: two bars five miles into the wilderness area. I really would like a list of areas where ATT service is better.

you will not find said list. This list does not exist. Verizon actually compares there network to competitors and makes sure it is as good or better in a given area. That can you hear me now guy is actually based on a dude that drives around a station wagon full of cell equipment that makes thousands of test calls on both vzw and att network. I remeber reading an interview of one of these google maps like drivers. They criss cross the us testing the network. ATT it just seems does not test it after they put it up. I have plenty of spots i go from bars to no bars to full bars. That little cut over drops the call. This has driven me to the Droid, not like i want to go to a droid i have to work harder to do that very same thing the iphone can do. I mean it is lame that i have to resort to this. I know i will get flammed in my area it just does not work out for the iphone. If some other market in some other life maybe just maybe

[sziehr]

Wow, what an incredibly BAD idea! The screen shrink has got to be one of the dumbest suggestions ever and certainly makes this rumor extremely suspect.

Beyond that, I don't see what the point of going with Verizon would be. For one thing, their network can not support simultaneous data and voice calls, which I am finding is one of the really useful features of the 3G & 3GS, especially for business use. For another, all the crying about bad coverage on AT&T is hugely over blown. AT&T works just fine for me everywhere I go. On the other hand, before I got my iPhone I had been on Verizon since they started as GTE and their coverage in my area had gotten so bad that it was far worse than even the most exaggerated complaints about AT&T have described. And then there is the way Verizon handicaps their phones to force customers into unnecessary and unreasonable fees. Trust me, there is nothing to be gained and a great deal to be lost by switching to Verizon. I was more than happy to leave and haven't regretted it in the slightest.

Honestly, I have to wonder if all the folks whining about AT&T are just a bunch of trolls who work for Verizon and are out spreading FUD on the internet in a desperate effort to protect their jobs.

I am not a verizon employee nor a troll. I think ATT in my area is lame. I have suffered under the ATT i have lost calls i have failed call setups quite frequently and this is in a good coverage zone. I go to where they say i will have good edge coverage to be met with the all bars trickle to no bars to searching to boom all bars that is enough to drop my calls. I am sorry but there is a real issue in some market area's and i am in one of them. Yes we are currently on the 850 so not like that switch will help. I think some fanboyism is a little too strong. I love the Iphone But I also love it to work where it should and that is not apple.

[str1f3]

I am not a verizon employee nor a troll. I think ATT in my area is lame. I have suffered under the ATT i have lost calls i have failed call setups quite frequently and this is in a good coverage zone. I go to where they say i will have good edge coverage to be met with the all bars trickle to no bars to searching to boom all bars that is enough to drop my calls. I am sorry but there is a real issue in some market area's and i am in one of them. Yes we are currently on the 850 so not like that switch will help. I think some fanboyism is a little too strong. I love the Iphone But I also love it to work where it should and that is not apple.

I would love to see a Verizon iPhone just not with a tiny screen or a gimped iPhone. Even before the iPhone it's been clear who's had the better network. The best solution has always been for the iPhone to available to as many carriers as possible. It creates competition to lower prices and to force companies to provide better technology and network coverage.

The sad thing is that others like Sasha Seegan have said that AT&T has the ability to make a great network but they screw it up. The worst part may be that it seems that without AT&T's exclusivity they could potentially fall apart. T-Mobile and Sprint are clearly headed in that direction. We could eventually see a Verizon monopoly.

[SandynJosh]

4. Apps are easily pirated.

Android phones cannot be locked. One of the reasons that Apple fights unlocking is to prevent pirating. If you unlock your iPhone, you cannot purchase apps from the AppStore. Apps on Android have no DRM, so it's relatively easy to pirate them (even if it had DRM, it's not that difficult). So, we know that any app that costs anything will be stolen.

So, in the end the user will get buggy apps. Developers will have their hard work stolen. Users will be stuck with whatever OS release comes with their phone.

Even more than pirating, I'd be concerned about apps that can be written that allow the app to do something unintended, like having a backdoor to execute malicious code.

Apple's app store protects BOTH the app writer and the phone user.

[DMann]

Enjoy your trip back to 2001....where voice and data can not coexist together. (CDMA)

This is a serious CDMA deficiency - accessing data, apps, MMS, web, etc. while talking is paramount in regard to multi-tasking.

This will be a deal breaker for many.

[tmiw]

This is a serious CDMA deficiency - accessing data, apps, MMS, web, etc. while talking is paramount in regard to multi-tasking.

This will be a deal breaker for many.

On my Sprint phone, data "seems" to drop down to 1xRTT during calls. I haven't actually tried browsing while talking on the phone, but I imagine it'd just be slower. Is there actually no data at all while on the phone?

(also, with WiFi, this isn't as big of a deal as it used to be.)

[MorphingDragon]

No chance in hell. Verizon would have to eat their own BS about the iPhone and it would make them look like a money whore.

[Eric S.]

I might have to consider a Verizon iPhone.

[SandynJosh]

you will not find said list. This list does not exist. Verizon actually compares there network to competitors and makes sure it is as good or better in a given area. That can you hear me now guy is actually based on a dude that drives around a station wagon full of cell equipment that makes thousands of test calls on both vzw and att network. I remeber reading an interview of one of these google maps like drivers. They criss cross the us testing the network. ATT it just seems does not test it after they put it up. I have plenty of spots i go from bars to no bars to full bars. That little cut over drops the call. This has driven me to the Droid, not like i want to go to a droid i have to work harder to do that very same thing the iphone can do. I mean it is lame that i have to resort to this. I know i will get flammed in my area it just does not work out for the iphone. If some other market in some other life maybe just maybe

Exact same is true in my area. I need a cell phone provider that I can trust to provide a business call connection throughout the duration of a call.

I did visit my Verizon store today and they did not cripple either model of the Droids they offer. I'm carrying a dumb as dirt 5-6 year old Moto flip phone the only cost upcharge will be a $30 per month unlimited digital plan and a $3 per month increase in my handset insurance plan. Multimedia (photos and videos) will cost me 25 cents per transfer.

My base charge is $50/mo for 750 daytime minutes, 300 free texts/mo, and 5 friends and family free unlimited minutes.

I do expect to pay more per app than I would with an iPhone (typically $35 each), and some iPhone apps that can be purchased outright, can only be accessed with Verizon as a $3 to $4 per month charge. That's the "nickle and dime you to death" reputation Verizon has.

If I buy a Moto Droid today, the quickest I could upgrade to a Verizon iPhone (assuming such a thing ever comes to pass) would be July 2012...just in time to go with whatever iPhone would be available on Verizon at that time.

[SandynJosh]

I am still waiting for a carrier to provide more minutes and better coverage for less money. Doesn't Moore's Law apply here?

Only Economic Laws apply here.

It requires billions and billions (to quote Carl Sagen) of dollars investments into tower upgrades to handle the 4G load a quicker/better network needs to provide the customer's ever-growing data use will demand. Forecasts say that investment will continue to be made several years out into the future. Until the network of towers can provide more then the usual load a group of users place on it, then it will be counter-productive to lower the use costs. When a carrier has more transmission capacity then the users need, then there may be some attempts to encourage more use with a lower price plan.

[freddiecable]

iPhone nano 2.8" - bring it on!

[Cheffy Dave]

Bring on the Verizon iPhone!

Q3 2010 - just in time for when I am due for a new phone upgrade. :)

Me too, but a reduced screen size to 2.8 would be a deal breaker:eek:

[JohnCalvi]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

Smaller screen= smaller keyboard :(. UNLESS Apple become a market follower and introduce a physical keyboard :/

I think these Verizon compatible rumors could be intox from Apple. If Verizon think they could exploit the iPhone next year then they may stop mud slinging now...

[Ironduke]

no way will apple shrink the screen on the iphone flagship model!

A nano version?

sure

[KurtangleTN]

Maybe I should pay the $60 or so more for the Droid on a 1 year contract rather then 2 years..

[sMiK]

no 2.8" please :apple:

[baryon]

Smaller screen? Wouldn't that result in all the applications being incompatible?
I mean a touch screen must be quite large in order to work otherwise you won't be able to use the keyboard for example, which is small enough as it is now. I really doubt Apple will make the iPhone's screen smaller, unless it's a totally new device that has nothing to do with the app store, which would be quite stupid, given the success of it.

[Meta22]

I don't think that making the screen smaller is a smart move, but if it's coming from Apple, I'm sure there's a good reason.

[slapguts]

Please no smaller screen.

But I do look forward to the day that everyone has an iPhone. Just so I don't have to be the one in the group to look up every dumb little thing that comes up. :D

[spillproof]

Interesting to see what becomes of this.
There is no way the iPhone will get a smaller screen. If it does, then Apple is extremely stupid.

[HyperZboy]

If the screen size gets smaller, that means the keyboard gets smaller too.

What the hell will I do with my stubby fat iSausage fingers? :D

[freddiecable]

guys - a 2.8" version does NOT mean the 3.5" will disapear...

i - for one - would gladly use a 2.8" - i have small fingers.

[wouwout]

on a global scale CDMA2000 (what Verizon uses) is non-relevant. I highly doubt Apple will put a lot of effort in a CDMA compatible iPhone. If the transition to a new radio-chip is easy, they might.

[ThatsMeRight]

As long as the 3.5" version stays, I don't care. 2.8" will maybe be a "lower-end" model so more people can have an iPhone, at lower cost.

For me the 3.5" is just about perfect, you can watch some episodes or movies on it (well, it's not as amazing as on a TV, but on 3.5" it's pretty good) and it's a great size.

At >3.5" models, the apps can still work without scaling.
At =3.5" models apps don't have to be scaled, as long as they all are created for these standards. If it's like 2.8", you have to use a smaller 'playground' or you have to scale it. If it is 4", than you have to scale it down.
At <3.5" models, the apps have to be scaled which is... just.. well negative.

[scottness]

a 2.8 inch phone would be a loser. i don't think there's much merit to this.

[xDYLANx]

If the screen size gets smaller, that means the keyboard gets smaller too.

What the hell will I do with my stubby fat iSausage fingers? :D

+100 I'm too much of a fatty to deal with smaller keyboards. :(

[mixel]

The few people in here who think apps are going to fail/not work as well in Android's open model..

You realise Palm, Windows Mobile and even the Newton had very active open platforms, devices that supported OS updates, and reliable software? I had loads of PalmOS and Newt software in the day, I had three PalmOS devices, two being Sonys with their weird propreitry interfaces etc.. Everything always worked perfectly. Why would Android, a more robust, modern equivalent of all those mentioned above suddenly be broken? Software doesnt NEED testing on every single piece of hardware if the OS and its SDK are great. Communities develop around user participation too.

How is it different to Windows or Mac apps? Its not really.

The Apple way isn't the only good way. I'm glad they use their method, but there big advantages to other approaches too.

---

I know little of verizon, I'm happily using O2 here in the UK. Anything which makes the iPhone more available sounds like a good move. Making the screen smaller sounds crazy though!

[Chupa Chupa]

With all the smack Verizon has been giving Apple and the iPhone of late I find this article would be more appropriately posted on The Onion. Verizon isn't getting the iPhone b/c Verizon is just as as big of a control freak as Apple. You can't have two control freaks running a room. It just doesn't end well.

Of course that is not to say Apple isn't concocting a different model for a non-U.S. market.

[NJMetsHero]

I love the fact that it could be on Verizon right around the time my every 2 comes up, but why in the world would they shrink the screen. If they put out a nano version or something along side the current version that's cool, but don't replace it. That'd be just idiotic.

[freeny]

A reminder for those who have forgotten...

All service providers suck.
While att will provide one crappy service, verizon will counter with an even crappier service only to be countered again by a new improved crappy service from att, followed by crappy ......

Oh, and any rumor of a smaller screen is complete bs. Apple would NEVER go there.

[AirLeoJ]

I think it's a great idea to get that market share of phone users! I know many, many people that really want an iPhone, but absolutely refuse to do business with AT&T. I'll probably make the switch if/when it happens myself! (that is, unless AT&T can buy my loyalty somehow)

I KNOW it's a BAD idea to shrink the thing! What moron came up with this idea?!?!? It's just about the perfect size right now! Any smaller would be a crime against brilliant design, bigger would be too bulky.

There's my 10 cents, now go buy something nice for yourself....

[AirLeoJ]

I think it's a great idea to get that market share of iphone users! I know many, many people that really want an iPhone, but absolutely refuse to do business with AT&T. I'll probably make the switch if/when it happens myself! (that is, unless AT&T can buy my loyalty somehow)

I KNOW it's a BAD idea to shrink the thing! What moron came up with this idea?!?!? It's just about the perfect size right now! Any smaller would be a crime against brilliant design, bigger would be too bulky.

There's my 10 cents, now go buy something nice for yourself....

[freddiecable]

you don't have to scale if you keep the resolution - but simply on a smaller screen. the pixel density will be higher. and again - at least 50% of people in my surroundings desire smaller iphones - and can manage. why should apple not do this simply because some people have fat/big fingers?



At <3.5" models, the apps have to be scaled which is... just.. well negative.

[Connect IT]

What a terrible idea, to make the iPhone screen smaller! :eek: That would take a giant step backwards. If anything, the phone should stay the same physical size, but increase the screen size, AND, change it to AMOLED. The AMOLED is much brighter, more vibrant, and uses less power. That would be a step in the right direction.:)

[Otaviano]

Yes, people will buy them for awhile, but once they discover these problems, they will grab an iPhone. Most of this is due to the fact that Android phones will vary greatly and Android is open source. What does open source mean, well, that an bunch of incompetent handset manufacturers can mess around with it. It saves them a lot of development, so it's a good deal for them, but not for the poor customers.

1. Apps are not tested, they are just placed in Android Market.

Most apps don't make it through Apple's quality assurance, even though developers know they will be tested. Why does Google do that? Well they would have to do the same thing the developer has to do, test it on all of the Android releases and Android platforms, a big and expensive job. So, instead they let you return the app.

2. Apps can be returned.

Think about it, you're paying a few bucks at the AppStore, but you know it will run, since it's been tested by Apple. But, because Google doesn't test them, they have to let you return them. Yes, maybe you buy a few apps for a few bucks that aren't what you expected, but that hurts the bottom line for any developer. If we were talking about big bucks, it's reasonable, for a few bucks, it's not.

3. Android phones will hardly ever be able to be updated to a new OS release.

Apple will occasionally insist that you test your app on a new release or have it removed from the AppStore. So, if Apple cannot guarantee upwards compatibility, what are the chances that Android releases will allow previous apps to work. Do you think a developer could possibly test all of these combinations.

4. Apps are easily pirated.

Android phones cannot be locked. One of the reasons that Apple fights unlocking is to prevent pirating. If you unlock your iPhone, you cannot purchase apps from the AppStore. Apps on Android have no DRM, so it's relatively easy to pirate them (even if it had DRM, it's not that difficult). So, we know that any app that costs anything will be stolen.

So, in the end the user will get buggy apps. Developers will have their hard work stolen. Users will be stuck with whatever OS release comes with their phone.

Why bother posting when you clearly don't know what you are talking about?

Just typing up outright bullsh...

[freddiecable]

so you mean apple can't have two models?!

[mclaycast]

hell ya, Finally... man I can just remember the days i used to spend researching iphone for verizon about 2 years ago and how people said there was a 20% chance of this happening... well this proves it. only thing that would really piss me off is if they do make the screen smaller, i think its good where it is now.

[rotlex]

Cool news. Also nicely coincides with my ATT contract ending. If it's true, Verizon iPhone, here I come.

[daneoni]

If they shrink the screen size even by 1mm i'm done

[tjcampbell]

They wont shrink the screen size. They spent years pining over what would be best and it's proven to be a winner. There's no point in switching to a smaller screen, this is just a bogus rumor.

[rerelease]

I'd totally get a smaller screen iPhone. Then it would look more like a phone and not a PDA.

[bhop123]

Verizon iPhone: My first iPhone.

ditto...:o

[Cleverboy]

Even more than pirating, I'd be concerned about apps that can be written that allow the app to do something unintended, like having a backdoor to execute malicious code. Apple's app store protects BOTH the app writer and the phone user.Honestly. Remember all the fuss over Apple having a "kill switch". How much more irresponsible would they be if they didn't have one? How much more irresponsible would it be if Google didn't? We're going to see a fairly nasty Android trojan at some point. Teamed up with Google, it's going to multi-task its way into your worst privacy nightmare. Just saying. I'm sure it keeps them up at night trying to calculate what exploit vector it will use.

~ CB

[Vega$$$]

If this comes to fruition, I hope that Sprint can get in on the action too!

[iBeard]

AT&T coverage in Houston is excellent and I haven't have great experiences with VZW in the past.

I'll stick w/ my 3G[S].

[ghostface147]

Don't forget you will have a $350 termination fee plus $2.99 for visual voicemail. Tethering also costs an extra 30 bucks. I know AT&T doesn't offer it, but 30 is still a little high I think.

[jmor]

I'll be getting my first iPhone this year for Christmas, switching to AT&T from T-Mobile, who right now has been terrible for the entire family. My brother goes to school up in Quinnapiac Conn. and I live down in NJ, hearing all of this bad service stuff is making me hesitant though, hopefully we have good service because I can't wait to get an iPhone.

[eloh]

I'd totally get a smaller screen iPhone. Then it would look more like a phone and not a PDA.

I agree 100%.

Give me my god damn Verizon iPhone!!!! :apple:

[blipper]

Everyone keeps discussing CDMA, tethering, 3G, speed, multiple data streams, etc. What they haven't touched on is the ability to do what the original purpose of these things are: make a call! I have my 4 year old Verizon cell phone and an iPod Touch for precisely the reason that I NEED my phone to be good at one thing consistently: making calls.

Watching streaming video and all that jazz is all fine and dandy, but if I can't consistently make phone calls, what is the point? Why should I trade in my phone that I have now? Every friend I have that has an iPhone is hooked on it's features, apps, etc, but if I ask them about their calls they say "yeah, it sucks, I drop calls all the time." Or when I call my own mother, and her iPhone drops in and out, but then call my father's phone on Verizon while he is standing less than 2 feet from her and there is no problem at all.

Would I like to combine my iPod Touch and phone into one? Yes. Am I willing to give up being able to make decent, reliable phone calls? No. It's that simple. If Apple can bring the iPhone to Verizon, I don't care what kind of network it is on, so long as I can speak to people with reliability.

Exactly my experience as well, except I actually have an iPhone and a Verizon phone. If I want to make calls, I use the Verizon (an LG Decoy).

[ronldjnvtx]

Yes they are wasting our time when you can tell they hate Apple.http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/06/apple-to-manufacture-verizon-compatible-iphone-in-q3-2010/)

A new report from OTR Global (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/11/06/report_apple_to_launch_verizon_iphone_in_q3_2010.html) relayed by AppleInsider indicates that Apple is planning on manufacturing new hybrid iPhones that will support both Verizon's CDMA2000 network as well as the UMTS 3G network. Only the UMTS network is supported by the current version of the iPhone and is used by AT&T and much of the rest of the world. The reason behind building in such support would seem primarily to extend the iPhone's compatibility with Verizon in the U.S. The move is expected to take place by the 3rd quarter of 2010. Conveniently, AT&T's exclusivity contract with Apple is believed to expire (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/14/atandt-exclusivity-expires-in-2010-atandt-asking-for-extension/) in mid 2010.

The report also indicates the new phones will also shrink in size from 3.5" to 2.8" diagonally. Curiously, this is not the first time the possibility of a 2.8" iPhone has emerged with iLounge previously publishing photos (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/06/05/larger-or-smaller-touchscreen-device-from-apple/) of 2.8" screens that were believed to be for use in future Apple devices.

Article Link: Apple to Manufacture Verizon-Compatible iPhone in Q3 2010? (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/06/apple-to-manufacture-verizon-compatible-iphone-in-q3-2010/)

[ronldjnvtx]

I am done also if they shrink the screen. I think it should get a little bigger than smaller.If they shrink the screen size even by 1mm i'm done

[jhead]

If true (very doubtful) -- I'll buy it! Screen size shrinking blah blah blah ...

If we recall, the three biggest issues with AT&T are: 1. Coverage 2. Coverage 3. Coverage. Remember this week's post regarding AT&T's suit over the map ad? Screen size is nothing and a slightly smaller iPhone (doubtful) would be a slight blessing. As for the AT&T handshake -- shame on Apple for even putting user into the lowest bracket of coverage/service quality.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I want a larger screen, not a smaller one.... I can barely play Solitaire as it is without bumping the wrong card half the time.

[OllyW]

I want a larger screen, not a smaller one.... I can barely play Solitaire as it is without bumping the wrong card half the time.

Try using the MacRumors Forum Spy on your iPhone. :eek:

It's one of the hardest games I've ever played. :D

[63dot]

This seems to make sense, but it's old news.

It's not if this will happen, but when.

[BVeritas]

Why bother posting when you clearly don't know what you are talking about?

Just typing up outright bullsh...

You are correct, an unlocked iPhone can still use the AppStore, but it loses push notification.

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/using_an_unlocked_iphone_you_can_forget_about_push.php

[ItsGavinC]

hell ya, Finally... man I can just remember the days i used to spend researching iphone for verizon about 2 years ago and how people said there was a 20% chance of this happening... well this proves it.

Yep, this proves it. :rolleyes:

Does the anonymity of the internet make people dumb, or do lots of dumb people use the internet?

[ItsGavinC]

This seems to make sense, but it's old news.

It's not if this will happen, but when.

1. Doesn't make sense at all.

2. Huh?!? That the iPhone will migrate to Verizon is somehow a given? I don't know if it will or won't anymore than the next guy, but in no way is it a given based on the information we currently have.

It'll be a given when they announce it.

[63dot]

Huh?!?

I live near Apple (which is in Cupertino, CA near San Jose and San Francisco) and this issue has been in the news a lot, especially on KGO news on tv and on the radio in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Andrew Gore, who used to work for Macworld is now KGO's tech/computer news advisor who keeps Silicon Valley up to date with rumors and inventions. He seems to have the bead on what's going on at Apple.

When SJ was asked about this, he got very defensive, similar in the way he did when he was asked about iPods working with PCs (before it was announced) and flat screen iMacs (when Time Canada leaked it) and pictures got onto Macrumors the day before the public announcement by SJ.

We will see what happens.

[ryanasimov]

Read the third paragraph:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2007-05-21-at&t-iphone_N.htm

[63dot]

Read the third paragraph:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2007-05-21-at&t-iphone_N.htm

I would think that AT&T will fight to hang onto this.

Apple could try to say it's a contract of adhesion. But from the bare facts of what I know, there seemed to have been the four elements of a contract (Offer, Offer Open, Consideration, and Acceptance) when the contract was signed in December, 2005. I will see if there are any exceptions or red flag on Lexis or Westlaw databases.

Under ordinary circumstances, Apple would have to pay a penalty if they got out of this more than a year early. I can't see a Judge favoring Apple if all the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted.

The only way a company can call on the exception of adhesion is if one company is much bigger than the other or has unequal bargaining force. Lawyers can spin this either way.

If Apple wants to, and gets Verizon, AT&T can sue under a theory of alternate theory of recovery via Promissory Estoppel. There appears to be detrimental reliance here. This is assuming a simple breach of contract does not work.

Let's see how this all plays out.

[mrr]

Verizon - Good

Small Screen - Bad

[masimons]

Ditto a one good for all carrier is a fantastic idea.

But ANY size smaller screen and I'd dump Apple stock quicker than anything,unbelivable.

If anything should be a tad bigger, and OLED.
Their competition has bigger screens with even higher resolution.
Heck I'd even opt for a couple mm thicker so they can have a bigger battery.

[Sweetfeld28]

If this comes to fruition, I hope that Sprint can get in on the action too!

I'm sure JailBroken CDMA phones will pop up for sure, if this actually happens. :D


To bad i just signed another agreement with VZW yesterday afternoon. But wouldn't you know it, i got home was setting up my Droid Eries, then jumped to Gizmodo on my laptop; and what do you think the first headline was.... iPhone coming to Verizon Q3 2010. :rolleyes: Go figure.

[MacKiddyWiddy]

hmm hopefully they'll do the same as vodafone and orange and not change anything!!! http://macblog.***********/imgs/*********************

[63dot]

I'm sure JailBroken CDMA phones will pop up for sure, if this actually happens. :D


To bad i just signed another agreement with VZW yesterday afternoon. But wouldn't you know it, i got home was setting up my Droid Eries, then jumped to Gizmodo on my laptop; and what do you think the first headline was.... iPhone coming to Verizon Q3 2010. :rolleyes: Go figure.

Interesting stuff. It's still hard to determine if Apple with get with Verizon before December 2010. As per my previous post, it's probably a breach of contract on Apple's part. That is unless Apple paid AT&T. Last I heard, Apple is not, and has not, been short on cash.

As far as AT&T, that company just dumped the entire division my mom works for and they are not doing well. When they were in better times, it was still hard as back then people joked that AT&T stood for "Allen and his two temps" slamming CEO Allen for all the layoffs at the company.

[heffeque]

Why would you want to sell iPhones on Verizon's pseudo-3G network? Isn't AT&T good enough? Oh wait. It's not. Verizon's is sh¡tty also and slower than AT&T's and what about... Sprint, T-Mobile and US Cellular?

Oh my god, I FORGOT! There are NO good cellular companies in the USA! I forgot that the US is the only first world country that has a crappy cellular service!

[63dot]

I'm sure JailBroken CDMA phones will pop up for sure, if this actually happens. :D


To bad i just signed another agreement with VZW yesterday afternoon. But wouldn't you know it, i got home was setting up my Droid Eries, then jumped to Gizmodo on my laptop; and what do you think the first headline was.... iPhone coming to Verizon Q3 2010. :rolleyes: Go figure.

Interesting stuff. It's still hard to determine if Apple with get with Verizon before December 2010. As per my previous post, it's probably a breach of contract on Apple's part. That is unless Apple paid AT&T. Last I heard, Apple is not, and has not, been short on cash.

As far as AT&T, that company just dumped the entire division my mom works for and they are not doing well. When they were in better times, it was still hard as back then people joked that AT&T stood for "Allen and his two temps" slamming CEO Robert Allen for all the layoffs at the company.

[63dot]

Oh my god, I FORGOT! There are NO good cellular companies in the USA! I forgot that the US is the only first world country that has a crappy cellular service!

Hey, we have great cellular companies here. I can receive a call and know within 20 seconds who it is that is calling. I can even determine the sex of the caller in 10 seconds!

[iMacmatician]

Could it be that shrinking the screen of the iPhone is a strategic move to open some marketing space for the coming tablet?The gap between 3.5" and ~10" (in addition to the tablet features) is not big enough?

[Cleverboy]

Read the third paragraph:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2007-05-21-at&t-iphone_N.htmSpecifically, written in the third paragraph:
AT&T has exclusive U.S. distribution rights for five years — an eternity in the go-go cellphone world. And Apple is barred for that time from developing a version of the iPhone for CDMA wireless networks.Then, to quote the date of the article: Updated 5/23/2007 8:38 PM, by Leslie Cauley.
I cited this same reason in my thread "iPhone will Never Ever... EVER Be On Verizon... at least until... (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=792542)", but USA Today has since revisited the topic, by the same writer:
Apple declined to comment on the specific question of whether it is talking to Verizon. The company provided USA TODAY with a prepared statement, culled from comments to investors by COO Tim Cook last week: "We're very happy with the relationship that we have (with AT&T) and do not have a plan to change it." Cook added that "CDMA doesn't really have a life to it after a point in time."AT&T (T) has exclusive U.S. distribution rights to the iPhone into 2010, though specifics aren't known. The deal was struck in 2006, when the iPhone was still on the drawing board. Many telecom analysts expect AT&T to try to persuade Apple to extend the contract for another year, at least.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/phones/2009-04-26-apple-verizon-iphone_N.htm

At this point, I'm concerned that Les Cauley's "source" is out of date, and attempting to draw a line of continuity on information that may have since changed, seems dicey. It's very possible some renegotiation has occured if AT&T was unable to keep its promises to Apple. Nobody REALLY knows except the CEOs, lawyers, and middlemen.

Is the 5 year CDMA exclusivity and 3 year distribution deal still what we're seeing? Some people seemed to have gotten them confused. Early on, AT&T would only describe the deal as "multi-year", and "more than two". Now, we're seeing that it was 3 years. Less clear, was the notion that Apple was not to develop a CDMA compatible phone for 5 years. I'm left wondering about Les Cauley's source, and if the information is still up-to-date. Did he really mean "develop" or did he mean "manufacture"? From the job listings for CDMA engineers, it sounds like the word "develop" was inaccurate. So if "develop" was inaccurate, what ELSE was?

I've given up trying to convince anyone that these rumors are just attempts to perpetuate interest. I'm throwing in the towel. Verizon in 2010! Woo-hoo! (Although its probably Sprint). ;)

~ CB

[chstr]

Speed is the key for the iphone. Which is why i think ATT will remain. Faster Network> Greater Coverage.
All you people hate so much, I've never had one problem with coverage.

the exception that proves the rule. bravo

[Cleverboy]

I'm sure JailBroken CDMA phones will pop up for sure, if this actually happens. :D
To bad i just signed another agreement with VZW yesterday afternoon. But wouldn't you know it, i got home was setting up my Droid Eries, then jumped to Gizmodo on my laptop; and what do you think the first headline was.... iPhone coming to Verizon Q3 2010. :rolleyes: Go figure.LOL. Correct me if I'm wrong... but there IS no "jailbreak-unlocking" for CDMA. GSM was one thing, but on CDMA, unless Verizon and/or Sprint explicitly allows the device on the network, then the device simply will not work on the network. It's a whole other world to which the is nothing but red tape for hackers.
http://cellphoneforums.net/general-cell-phone-forum/t206579-unlocking-cdma-phone.html
Generally, CDMA phones are NOT considered unlockable because it is usually impractical to do so. Sprint, my provider, will not under any circumstances activate a non-Sprint phone, so an unlocked CDMA phone would be useless to you if you use Sprint. Even if you get an unlocked CDMA phone and by some chance are able to have it activated with your provider, many of the features will not work correctly unless someone with quite a bit of technical knowledge reprograms the phone to your provider's specifications.No "below the radar" with this one. If your CDMA compatible iPhone is "unlocked", odds are it can do a WHOLE crapload of stuff they really don't want you to do... so, why would they? Hince: NON-STARTER.
Nope, that is not the norm at all. The bigger CDMA providers like Verizon, Sprint, and Alltel won't reprogram another carrier's phone for their network. They often give excuses like, "It wouldn't work correctly on our network" or "that phone will roam all the time and give you poor reception". These statements are debatable but generally considered true, since each network operates on slightly different parameters and they might not have the correct programming for a model of phone they don't actually sell.

~ CB

[cmaier]

I would think that AT&T will fight to hang onto this.

Apple could try to say it's a contract of adhesion. But from the bare facts of what I know, there seemed to have been the four elements of a contract (Offer, Offer Open, Consideration, and Acceptance) when the contract was signed in December, 2005. I will see if there are any exceptions or red flag on Lexis or Westlaw databases.

Under ordinary circumstances, Apple would have to pay a penalty if they got out of this more than a year early. I can't see a Judge favoring Apple if all the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted.

The only way a company can call on the exception of adhesion is if one company is much bigger than the other or has unequal bargaining force. Lawyers can spin this either way.

If Apple wants to, and gets Verizon, AT&T can sue under a theory of alternate theory of recovery via Promissory Estoppel. There appears to be detrimental reliance here. This is assuming a simple breach of contract does not work.

Let's see how this all plays out.

I'm guessing you're a law student, not a lawyer. Anyway, you have no idea how long the exclusivity is in the contract. (there's no evidence that the 5-year thing was true - if anything., at&t's continuous 10K statements that they could lose exclusivity prove otherwise) If and when Apple allows verizon to have iPhone, you can be sure it will be because the contract with AT&T has terminated, or at least the exclusivity clause has terminated.

Adhesion will never be applied between two companies, each with their own legal teams, who enter into a contract.

Promissory estoppel also doesn't apply. They entered into an actual contract. Promissory estoppel won't be applied to create a de facto contract when there's already an actual contract.

[Swift]

Here's one: allow the iPhone to access BOTH the Verizon and AT&T networks. Set the monthly price at the same amount. Then let Verizon and AT&T bicker about what portion of each account goes to either company based on usage or area.

Where I live, AT&T comes in 4 or 5 bars everywhere I go -- except home. So from home, I'd go with Verizon. That's almost none of my Internet data -- I have computers at home -- but a pretty good proportion of my iPhone usage.

So, say my iPhone charge is $50 for AT&T and $30 for Verizon. This gives the cell companies motivation to build out their networks, so they can get a higher percentage of the usage of each person with dual processors.

The cell networks have to work more like the Internet.

[aristotle]

So are you saying that it would be too difficult for Apple to do this? Isn't their other companies offering universal handsets already?
Not terribly difficult but it would increase the cost of manufacture of the hardware and increase the costs and potential bugs in the firmware for very little gain for Apple in terms of marketshare. People are willing to switch from CDMA for the iPhone. Heck, even CDMA carriers like Telus and Bell were willing to switch to HSPA/HSDPA (3G+ GSM) for the iPhone. Apple is not the only manufacturer unwilling to not only not "world phones" but even CDMA only devices. Telus and Bell now have access to a lot more phone models with their new network and speeds up to 21 Mbps which is a lot faster than EVDO.

It is not worth it considering that the subscribers in Canada are eventually going to switch to HSPA phones when their contract is up and considering that the two largest CDMA providers in Asia are going with LTE.
http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/cdma_world_subscriber.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution#Carrier_adoption

As important as you think the current Verizon and the holdout Sprint network are to you, as an American consumer, they are small in the big picture.

There is also the factor of how many subscribers on CDMA networks would actually pay even a subsidized price for an iPhone versus subscribers on GSM networks around the world.

I know of quite a few people in Canada who no longer have a land line and I'm considering dumping mine and switching to Cable internet from DSL. Most Americans are still on POTS landlines.

PS. Are you aware that developing software costs money and that Apple would have to spend extra time and money developing the software for little benefit to them?

[Cleverboy]

I'm guessing you're a law student, not a lawyer. Anyway, you have no idea how long the exclusivity is in the contract. (there's no evidence that the 5-year thing was trueJust to review: 5 year ban on developing a CDMA phone. Not the term of exclusive distribution (which was always 3 years). But, you're right, either way... I don't think anyone has produced any real evidence that this was or is still true.

~ CB

[ThomasJL]

I hate AT&T, and love T-Mobile. As for Verizon, Apple should wait until Verizon switches to an internationally standardized GSM-based network. Verizon is planning on doing this when dumping CDMA for GSM-based LTE in 4G networks.

[thetexan]

Don't forget about Sprint, Apple.

Each of you here could get:

450 anytime mins, unlimited calls to any cellphone on any network, unlimited n&w that start at 7pm, unlimited sms/mms, an extensive 3G network that competes with Verizon and blows AT&T out of the water all for $59.99 per month. If you pay $69.99 per month with Sprint you get full upgrade eligibility every 12 months instead of 24.

[jlc1978]

Hmm, why would Verizon want the iPhone? Do they forget all of the stuff the iPhone 'iDoesn't'?

Money

[jlc1978]

Android phones cannot be locked. One of the reasons that Apple fights unlocking is to prevent pirating. If you unlock your iPhone, you cannot purchase apps from the AppStore.

Huh? Unlocked iPhones work just fine with the App Store.

[cmaier]

Huh? Unlocked iPhones work just fine with the App Store.

Yeah, people just making up crazy stuff.

[petermcphee]

I would think that AT&T will fight to hang onto this.

Apple could try to say it's a contract of adhesion. But from the bare facts of what I know, there seemed to have been the four elements of a contract (Offer, Offer Open, Consideration, and Acceptance) when the contract was signed in December, 2005. I will see if there are any exceptions or red flag on Lexis or Westlaw databases.

Under ordinary circumstances, Apple would have to pay a penalty if they got out of this more than a year early. I can't see a Judge favoring Apple if all the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted.

The only way a company can call on the exception of adhesion is if one company is much bigger than the other or has unequal bargaining force. Lawyers can spin this either way.

If Apple wants to, and gets Verizon, AT&T can sue under a theory of alternate theory of recovery via Promissory Estoppel. There appears to be detrimental reliance here. This is assuming a simple breach of contract does not work.

Let's see how this all plays out.



I love it when 1L's practice law on the internet.

[kwiiboy]

Yes, people will buy them for awhile, but once they discover these problems, they will grab an iPhone. Most of this is due to the fact that Android phones will vary greatly and Android is open source. What does open source mean, well, that an bunch of incompetent handset manufacturers can mess around with it. It saves them a lot of development, so it's a good deal for them, but not for the poor customers.

1. Apps are not tested, they are just placed in Android Market.

Most apps don't make it through Apple's quality assurance, even though developers know they will be tested. Why does Google do that? Well they would have to do the same thing the developer has to do, test it on all of the Android releases and Android platforms, a big and expensive job. So, instead they let you return the app.

2. Apps can be returned.

Think about it, you're paying a few bucks at the AppStore, but you know it will run, since it's been tested by Apple. But, because Google doesn't test them, they have to let you return them. Yes, maybe you buy a few apps for a few bucks that aren't what you expected, but that hurts the bottom line for any developer. If we were talking about big bucks, it's reasonable, for a few bucks, it's not.

3. Android phones will hardly ever be able to be updated to a new OS release.

Apple will occasionally insist that you test your app on a new release or have it removed from the AppStore. So, if Apple cannot guarantee upwards compatibility, what are the chances that Android releases will allow previous apps to work. Do you think a developer could possibly test all of these combinations.

4. Apps are easily pirated.

Android phones cannot be locked. One of the reasons that Apple fights unlocking is to prevent pirating. If you unlock your iPhone, you cannot purchase apps from the AppStore. Apps on Android have no DRM, so it's relatively easy to pirate them (even if it had DRM, it's not that difficult). So, we know that any app that costs anything will be stolen.

So, in the end the user will get buggy apps. Developers will have their hard work stolen. Users will be stuck with whatever OS release comes with their phone.

Then why do some porn apps slip through Apple's "quality assurance" system?

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/06/porn-comes-to-the-itunes-app-store/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10273717-37.html

[iphones4evry1]

Apple is not going to make the screen smaller. Your source is not reporting accurately. There is no way in heck that Apple is going to make the iPhone screen smaller. :apple:

[cmaier]

I love it when 1L's practice law on the internet.

Heh heh. Yeah, not a bar exam-worthy analysis.

[jackvalko]

Smaller screen is a good thing. Look at the black areas above/below the display. What if those "disappeared"???

[CaryMacGuy]

I think that having a Verizon compatible iPhone makes sense for both Verizon and for Apple. I know that I am not alone in saying that Verizon's 3G EVDO network runs circles around AT&T's 3G network. I know that a ton of people will flock to Verizon and buy the new iPhone. By Q3 2010, I will be at the tail end of my AT&T contract and if this comes to fruition, I will be flocking as well.

As far as the 2.8" screen...I can only see that as a second offering alongside the iPhone. I don't think they would call it the iPhone Nano because that is an iPod thing. Maybe iPhone Cub (to go along with the big cat theme of Mac OS X :p).

As far as the Anti iPhone propaganda that Verizon has been spreading lately, Apple will forgive them. All of this is just business. In order for Verizon to effectively market their new Moto Droid, they need to favorable compare it with what people already know and love. Apple and Steve Jobs understand this and I doubt that it will in any way keep the iPhone off Verizon.

One thing is abundantly clear...for anyone following mobile and wireless technology, this is an exciting time. It seems a lot like computers in the 1990s. Everyone is trying to play catch up with everyone else and as a result, we see (and will continue to see) tremendous innovation and really cool products.

So that being said, let the best man win!

[chstr]

I think that having a Verizon compatible iPhone makes sense for both Verizon and for Apple. I know that I am not alone in saying that Verizon's 3G EVDO network runs circles around AT&T's 3G network. I know that a ton of people will flock to Verizon and buy the new iPhone. By Q3 2010, I will be at the tail end of my AT&T contract and if this comes to fruition, I will be flocking as well.

As far as the 2.8" screen...I can only see that as a second offering alongside the iPhone. I don't think they would call it the iPhone Nano because that is an iPod thing. Maybe iPhone Cub (to go along with the big cat theme of Mac OS X :p).

As far as the Anti iPhone propaganda that Verizon has been spreading lately, Apple will forgive them. All of this is just business. In order for Verizon to effectively market their new Moto Droid, they need to favorable compare it with what people already know and love. Apple and Steve Jobs understand this and I doubt that it will in any way keep the iPhone off Verizon.

One thing is abundantly clear...for anyone following mobile and wireless technology, this is an exciting time. It seems a lot like computers in the 1990s. Everyone is trying to play catch up with everyone else and as a result, we see (and will continue to see) tremendous innovation and really cool products.

So that being said, let the best man win!

this is the most well thought out response so far and i totally agree

[sziehr]

Exact same is true in my area. I need a cell phone provider that I can trust to provide a business call connection throughout the duration of a call.

I did visit my Verizon store today and they did not cripple either model of the Droids they offer. I'm carrying a dumb as dirt 5-6 year old Moto flip phone the only cost upcharge will be a $30 per month unlimited digital plan and a $3 per month increase in my handset insurance plan. Multimedia (photos and videos) will cost me 25 cents per transfer.

My base charge is $50/mo for 750 daytime minutes, 300 free texts/mo, and 5 friends and family free unlimited minutes.

I do expect to pay more per app than I would with an iPhone (typically $35 each), and some iPhone apps that can be purchased outright, can only be accessed with Verizon as a $3 to $4 per month charge. That's the "nickle and dime you to death" reputation Verizon has.

If I buy a Moto Droid today, the quickest I could upgrade to a Verizon iPhone (assuming such a thing ever comes to pass) would be July 2012...just in time to go with whatever iPhone would be available on Verizon at that time.

I have now had the droid a day and a half. I can report that i am 80% happy with it. This is amazing considering i have the lofty expectations that the iphone builds up. It gets bonus points though over the 80% in the fact i can do simpel things like change the mail notification tone omg that is so annoying. This is more a phone than a toy. I have always seen my iphone as a toy not as a true phone if i was in danger i do not feel ATT would be there with the coverage in my area. I have kept my vzw and i have never in ten years of service with them had more than a handfull of drop calls in moderate service locations. When on the frindge it is expect and predictable unlike ATT. The frindge is in the woods or the middle of a lake in the middle of no where. The frindge to ATT is 20 min out side of a population base smaller than 150k people.

[Dagless]

Why would a phone not be compatible with a network? Wouldn't Apple just sell the current phone to them and they put their own sim card in?

, confusion.

[iMacmatician]

Smaller screen is a good thing. Look at the black areas above/below the display. What if those "disappeared"???That wold be a reduction in display bezel rather than the display itself.

[cmaier]

Why would a phone not be compatible with a network? Wouldn't Apple just sell the current phone to them and they put their own sim card in?

, confusion.

CDMA networks, like Verizon, don't use sim cards. They also use different frequencies, and encode and transmit data using different techniques.

[moondog3]

First off..the iPhone 3G/3Gs has a 3" tall screen and not a 3.5" Screen...next why would Apple make the screen smaller when 16:9 HD is the next step phone video formats..so the screen size rummer is based a false information.

The iPhone is a very data oriented device. I believe AT&T has done an OK job at keeping up with the sheer volume of date used on it's network though it has not done a great job with increasing speed and stability of it's network at all!

Verizon would experience greater speed for awhile untill the volume of data being transferred will increase and create a similar problem that AT&T is having. LTE along with increased spectrum is the only true solution to solving the cellular network data problems. It's is great that both Verizon and AT&T can agree on the LTE being the next standard but until then an Verizon/AT&T iPhone is not a great solution accept for possibility of more competitive pricing of data plans bringing down the astronomical service pricing.:)

[cmaier]

First off..the iPhone 3G/3Gs has a 3" tall screen and not a 3.5" Screen...next why would Apple make the screen smaller when 16:9 HD is the next step phone video formats..so the screen size rummer is based a false information.

The iPhone is a very data oriented device. I believe AT&T has done an OK job at keeping up with the sheer volume of date used on it's network though it has not done a great job with increasing speed and stability of it's network at all!

Verizon would experience greater speed for awhile untill the volume of data being transferred will increase and create a similar problem that AT&T is having. LTE along with increased spectrum is the only true solution to solving the cellular network data problems. It's is great that both Verizon and AT&T can agree on the LTE being the next standard but until then an Verizon/AT&T iPhone is not a great solution accept for possibility of more competitive pricing of data plans bringing down the astronomical service pricing.:)

Screens are measured diagonally, not in height. It's a 3.5" screen. http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html.

[Digital Dude]

This is something that's way overdue. It will clearly increase market share and it's a smart format.
Regards,
Dan

[lw9090]

My neighbor works at Sprint and they said they will get the iphone in July too. If its Sprint and ATT I will stay on ATT. Sprint sucks in my area.

[cmaier]

My neighbor works at Sprint and they said they will get the iphone in July too. If its Sprint and ATT I will stay on ATT. Sprint sucks in my area.

Sprint won't be getting the iPhone.

[CQd44]

Sprint won't be getting the iPhone.

My cousin's girlfriend's dad's friend's son works for.....
;]

[Jeffrosproto]

All I have to say: if att hasn't upgraded to 3g in my area (verizon has, att is "planned" for early 2010), I will be paying the $170 ETF to jump ship when/if this comes.

[eloh]

Specifically, written in the third paragraph:
Then, to quote the date of the article: Updated 5/23/2007 8:38 PM, by Leslie Cauley.
I cited this same reason in my thread "iPhone will Never Ever... EVER Be On Verizon... at least until... (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=792542)", but USA Today has since revisited the topic, by the same writer:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/phones/2009-04-26-apple-verizon-iphone_N.htm

At this point, I'm concerned that Les Cauley's "source" is out of date, and attempting to draw a line of continuity on information that may have since changed, seems dicey. It's very possible some renegotiation has occured if AT&T was unable to keep its promises to Apple. Nobody REALLY knows except the CEOs, lawyers, and middlemen.

Is the 5 year CDMA exclusivity and 3 year distribution deal still what we're seeing? Some people seemed to have gotten them confused. Early on, AT&T would only describe the deal as "multi-year", and "more than two". Now, we're seeing that it was 3 years. Less clear, was the notion that Apple was not to develop a CDMA compatible phone for 5 years. I'm left wondering about Les Cauley's source, and if the information is still up-to-date. Did he really mean "develop" or did he mean "manufacture"? From the job listings for CDMA engineers, it sounds like the word "develop" was inaccurate. So if "develop" was inaccurate, what ELSE was?

I've given up trying to convince anyone that these rumors are just attempts to perpetuate interest. I'm throwing in the towel. Verizon in 2010! Woo-hoo! (Although its probably Sprint). ;)

~ CB

I don't think you know as much as you think you know...:cool:

[bigserve99]

att has never been a problem for me. they never drop my calls and always have fast coverage in my area and all the cities I've been to. In fact, Verizon is awful in this area (Westchester, NY). When I'm at my buddy's house, he can never get a signal. I get excellent full bar coverage.

I realize this may not be the experience for every other area. But the reality is that ATT has worked for me. If people want to jump ship over to Verizon and their crappy network, all the more bandwidth for me. Have fun.

[63dot]

Adhesion will never be applied between two companies, each with their own legal teams, who enter into a contract.


You're a patent attorney or patent agent I guess. My buddy in law school is going that route, JD and PhD-Computer Engineering. PM me and explain why adhesion does not apply. I don't want to hijack this thread but I am interested. I heard Len Tillem, local Bay Area attorney, explaining how much more intense patent law is, and how a lot of what I know just doesn't apply. He doesn't even try to pretend to know this stuff so I have nothing but the highest regard for agents and attorneys who work with patents.

[Vega$$$]

Sprint won't be getting the iPhone.

I wouldn't discount the possibility of Sprint getting the iPhone. Supposedly VZW would never get the iPhone and there would never be a CDMA iPhone. Now there is at least speculation that points to both of these possibilities coming true. Of course we have to wait and see what actually happens. However, I'd be wary of making proclamations; the only thing predictable about Apple is its unpredictability.

[smakdown61]

The android app store will fail because no developer will want to make an app that will be pirated for free or copied by some chinese company for 50 cents. Apple's app store is actually a developer's dream...why do you think there are already 100k apps?

[stab244]

CDMA networks, like Verizon, don't use sim cards. They also use different frequencies, and encode and transmit data using different techniques.

Actually, it's only really the lack of a CDMA radio in the iPhone that makes the iPhone not work on Verizon/Sprint. There are SIM-like cards for CDMA phones called R-UIM (Removable-User Identification Module) cards that allows for CDMA phones to gain the benefit of being able to swap phones on the spot.

[CQd44]

The android app store will fail because no developer will want to make an app that will be pirated for free or copied by some chinese company for 50 cents. Apple's app store is actually a developer's dream...why do you think there are already 100k apps?

But... you can pirate iPhone apps too.

[stab244]

The android app store will fail because no developer will want to make an app that will be pirated for free or copied by some chinese company for 50 cents. Apple's app store is actually a developer's dream...why do you think there are already 100k apps?
In all honesty, I've heard of more iPhone app pirating rather than Android app pirating... Actually, I've never heard of Android app pirating.

[CQd44]

In all honesty, I've heard of more iPhone app pirating rather than Android app pirating... Actually, I've never heard of Android app pirating.

Seconded. I assume it'd be possible (backup apps to sd card, plug that in to another android phone, install the backed up app). Even then I haven't heard of it.

[Ericatomars]

HELL YEA!! I can wait a year...

And everyone forgets that the whole idon't thing was simply to push the droid... It's all about marketing and making money, I can't see Apple taking it personally...

[stab244]

HELL YEA!! I can wait a year...

And everyone forgets that the whole idon't thing was simply to push the droid... It's all about marketing and making money, I can't see Apple taking it personally...

Why else would commercials be made if they didn't want to market a product and make money? Though I do agree that Apple probably doesn't care about it.

[DakotaGuy]

Sprint won't be getting the iPhone.

and Macs will never get Intel processors.

[cmaier]

and Macs will never get Intel processors.

Wow, that's quite some argument. Now, if *I* had said "macs will never get Intel processors," you could at least undermine my credibility. But simply stating that Event A happened, therefore Event B will happen, you not only prove nothing, but don't even advance your ball.

By your distorted logic, the following things will also happen:

a) you will wake up tomorrow to find yourself made of blue cheese
b) Microsoft will buy Uganda and rename it Bob
c) squirrels will spontaneously evolve thumbs and take all our jobs

Sprint will not get iPhone in the next 5 years. Verizon might, but not until LTE.

[stab244]

Wow, that's quite some argument. Now, if *I* had said "macs will never get Intel processors," you could at least undermine my credibility. But simply stating that Event A happened, therefore Event B will happen, you not only prove nothing, but don't even advance your ball.

By your distorted logic, the following things will also happen:

a) you will wake up tomorrow to find yourself made of blue cheese
b) Microsoft will buy Uganda and rename it Bob
c) squirrels will spontaneously evolve thumbs and take all our jobs

Sprint will not get iPhone in the next 5 years. Verizon might, but not until LTE.

I actually wouldn't mind if squirrels grew thumbs and took our jobs...

Anyways, I think that person was trying to be sarcastic. Like when there were only PPC Macs, nobody would've thought that Macs would get Intel processors.