Intel Core i5 Quad-Core iMac Begins Shipping

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/09/intel-core-i5-quad-core-imac-begins-shipping/)

Several MacRumors readers have reported that they have received notification from Apple that their Intel Core i5-based quad-core 27" iMac orders have been shipped from Shanghai. There is no word yet on whether the upgraded Intel Core i7-based version of the quad-core model has also begun shipping.

Apple released (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/20/apple-releases-updated-imac-models-with-21-5-and-27-inch-led-screens/) its new 21.5" and 27" iMacs late last month, but announced at the time that the quad-core 27" models would not begin shipping until sometime this month. Pricing on the 2.66 GHz Core i5-based model begins at $1,999, with a $200 upgrade to the 2.8 GHz Core i7 also available. The use of these quad-core processors in the new iMac marks the first usage of desktop-class processors in Apple's "thin" iMac designs, as the model has traditionally utilized mobile processors for their lower heat output.

Article Link: Intel Core i5 Quad-Core iMac Begins Shipping (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/09/intel-core-i5-quad-core-imac-begins-shipping/)

[Ambrose Chapel]

Can't wait for benchmarks :)

[windels]

gotta love them imac's

[ValSalva]

I thought "Shipping In November" was really code for "Will Arrive In December." Probably will for my Core i7 order. Hope that one will ship with a functioning 10.6.2. :D

[queshy]

Surprising, I thought it would be more like end of november.

[Ambrose Chapel]

Surprising, I thought it would be more like end of november.

me too, i figured by Black Friday. i wonder when the i5 model will be available in the retail stores. has apple said whether the i7 model will be available online only?

[Indyrs2]

Noooo. They should have shipped the i7 first because i want my computer. Hopefully the i7 starts shipping by weeks end though.

[meli]

Anyone care to take an educated guess as to when we'll see i5's and/or i7's in 21-inch iMacs? Are there currently any smaller All-In-One PC's with an i7 or i5?

I'd love the power of an i7, but I don't need, or even want, a 27-inch screen. I'd actually prefer a 17-inch screen, but I know heat is an issue.

[Mac In School]

If anyone gets shipment notification on an i7, please post here. I'm anxious too. :D

[RazHyena]

Can it play Youtube videos? :o

[johnrs]

If anyone gets shipment notification on an i7, please post here. I'm anxious too. :D

I am sure as soon as someone with an i7 order gets confirmation of shipping it will be all over the forum

[jameskohn]

I am sure as soon as someone with an i7 order gets confirmation of shipping it will be all over the forum

I hope to know that the i7's are shipping when I receive an email from Apple that mine is on it's way!!

[johnrs]

be interesting to see if anyone from the UK or Europe has received shipping confirmation..

[robodude666]

Looking forward to people's i5 iMacs arriving. Considering getting an i5 or i7 one, but the news of endless problems is making me a bit iffy as to whether I should wait or not =/.

[Buzz Bumble]

Does anyone know how long it usually takes for a "Build To Order" Mac to arrive (once they are properly shipping)?? I know it may be different depending on which country it is going to.

A couple of local resellers have told me it takes six weeks (which seems a little ridiculous), but that would mean there's little point in me ordering one / "Black Friday" now since it will arrive right on the Christmas silly season.

[jav6454]

Benchmarks!!!!

[The Samurai]

My core i5 hasn't shipped but I guess it will ship some time this week. Apparently, none of the European orders have been shipped...

[mr.steevo]

The quads are the reason I have been waiting to upgrade. Looking forward to reading reviews on them.

s.

[TheAshMan]

Anyone care to take an educated guess as to when we'll see i5's and/or i7's in 21-inch iMacs? Are there currently any smaller All-In-One PC's with an i7 or i5?

I'd love the power of an i7, but I don't need, or even want, a 27-inch screen. I'd actually prefer a 17-inch screen, but I know heat is an issue.
I think the only way is if it is the mobile chipset, aren't the 27-inchers now desktop chipsets due to the increased size and thermal capabilities?

[Apple!Fre@k]

Can it play Youtube videos? :o

What, are you crazy!? You must have an i9 processor or greater to play YouTube videos.

[Wakashizuma]

ATI Radeon 4850? Really? I thought we are in 2009 and 5XXX series are already getting deployed by PC makers. The pace of technological development in Apple land must be really slow

Although I have to say it comes handy to chip manufactures since they can dump their old outdated hardware to Apple buyers and charge them twice. They know nobody buys obsolete hardware in PC land....

[Drummer210]

I can't wait to get my i5!

[skye12]

What, are you crazy!? You must have an i9 processor or greater to play YouTube videos.

I heard you need a MP 8 core with 4 graphics cards.

[BornAgainMac]

I hate to say it but why is there not an i6? Does it have anything to do with the Tick/Tock processor rollout from Intel?

[Shiner]

ATI Radeon 4850? Really? I thought we are in 2009 and 5XXX series are already getting deployed by PC makers. The pace of technological development in Apple land must be really slow

Although I have to say it comes handy to chip manufactures since they can dump their old outdated hardware to Apple buyers and charge them twice. They know nobody buys obsolete hardware in PC land....

+1

Exactly what blows me away with these machines. Everything is great looking and that 27 inch screen is awesome. I go to the spec page and my jaw drops. A 4850 powering that screen!! There goes my dream of a perfect dual boot computer.

[Harpy007]

Bring on the i7 already! :D Happy for you i5 owners though!

[Eidorian]

Benchmarks!!!!It's nice to see the hardware shipping in Early November. I was expecting just before the end of the month. Barefeats and MacWorld should be covering the benches we want. Seeing desktop processors in the iMac is a nice change over the mobile components. Though we're still stuck with the mobile GPUs.

I hate to say it but why is there not an i6? Does it have anything to do with the Tick/Tock processor rollout from Intel?There's a Core i6 now?

[Thomas2006]

Anyone care to take an educated guess as to when we'll see i5's and/or i7's in 21-inch iMacs?
I think we will see them with the next update when the mobile "Arrandale" processors are available.

[BrianKonarsMac]

I heard you need a MP 8 core with 4 graphics cards.
This is what you need to run Flash on a Mac. Seriously.

[locust76]

That's cool and all, but... can they handle flash?

[happydude]

*sigh* if i only had $3K laying around. ah well. my imac has a couple years left in it. just think what will be out when we're looking to upgrade!

[Meta22]

ATI Radeon 4850? Really? I thought we are in 2009 and 5XXX series are already getting deployed by PC makers. The pace of technological development in Apple land must be really slow

Although I have to say it comes handy to chip manufactures since they can dump their old outdated hardware to Apple buyers and charge them twice. They know nobody buys obsolete hardware in PC land....

the ATI Radeon HD 4850 is a really good graphics card.
just look at this chart: Go Here (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?cpu=Radeon+HD+4850)
Besides Apple computers are currently cheaper than PCs,
And the pace of technological development in Apple is way faster than other companies.

[PeterQVenkman]

This is what you need to run Flash on a Mac. Seriously.

That's what I run at the office. It doesn't help. ;)

[bertman]

the ATI Radeon HD 4850 is a really good graphics card.
just look at this chart: Go Here (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?cpu=Radeon+HD+4850)


This chart seems to be making the point of the OP - the 5850 is about twice the performance. A quick Google search indicates the retail price is about $100 more than the 4850, (So $50 more OEM?) - it does seem a shame not to have it in the quad.

Can someone here explain the difference in performance the video card makes to NOT gaming? (But rather image editing: e.g., Aperture & Photoshop.)

Does Snow Leopard use the GPU for "general" processing? I remember a utility you could run that allowed 10.5 to use the GPU for some tasks...

[lanceh5]

That is good news. I am anxiously waiting for an i7 to be shipped. It will be a long month.

[Wakashizuma]

the ATI Radeon HD 4850 is a really good graphics card.
just look at this chart: Go Here (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?cpu=Radeon+HD+4850)
Besides Apple computers are currently cheaper than PCs,
And the pace of technological development in Apple is way faster than other companies.

Yeah the pace is much faster

)PCs had quad core chips since 2007 (for $250) while first imacs with quad core are just coming out

)PCs had i7 920 processor since November 2008 while Mac had their first Mac Pro (which is a Xeon branded 920) in 2009

)PCs had 4850 since 2008 and now they are using 5870, 5850, 5770 and 5750. 4850 is considered obsolete in PC land

)Windows 7 supports TRIM natively for flash drives; something that mac OSX lacks

)No Blu-ray on macs

)No e-SATA

Yeah Macs are really ahead when it comes to using yesterday's technology

[Wakashizuma]

This chart seems to be making the point of the OP - the 5850 is about twice the performance. A quick Google search indicates the retail price is about $100 more than the 4850, (So $50 more OEM?) - it does seem a shame not to have it in the quad.

Can someone here explain the difference in performance the video card makes to NOT gaming? (But rather image editing: e.g., Aperture & Photoshop.)

Does Snow Leopard use the GPU for "general" processing? I remember a utility you could run that allowed 10.5 to use the GPU for some tasks...

For anything not gaming, 4850 is fine

You'd need a better GPU if

)You're a gamer
)You do folding on the GPU and you want fast performance
)You want a faster GPU for future GPU applications

For everyday task including photoshop, 4850 is plenty

[couto27]

ATI Radeon 4850? Really? I thought we are in 2009 and 5XXX series are already getting deployed by PC makers. The pace of technological development in Apple land must be really slow

Although I have to say it comes handy to chip manufactures since they can dump their old outdated hardware to Apple buyers and charge them twice. They know nobody buys obsolete hardware in PC land....

the imac 27 has a 27" inch screen IPS dont you no what is IPS?? its quality , its professional hardware and its a piece of design and a great os. not cheap crap like pcs.

[Eidorian]

the imac 27 has a 27" inch screen IPS dont you no what is IPS?? its quality , its professional hardware and its a piece of design and a great os. not cheap crap like pcs.The same distinction could be made for the HD 4850 since it's over a year old and considered a budget component.

[redAPPLE]

+1

Exactly what blows me away with these machines. Everything is great looking and that 27 inch screen is awesome. I go to the spec page and my jaw drops. A 4850 powering that screen!! There goes my dream of a perfect dual boot computer.

haven't been watching the graphics card scene, the '4850' is a bad card? is there a bto version?

is the 4850 good enough for after effects, fcp, 3d graphics?

[couto27]

Yeah the pace is much faster

)PCs had quad core chips since 2007 (for $250) while first imacs with quad core are just coming out

)PCs had i7 920 processor since November 2008 while Mac had their first Mac Pro (which is a Xeon branded 920) in 2009

)PCs had 4850 since 2008 and now they are using 5870, 5850, 5770 and 5750. 4850 is considered obsolete in PC land

)Windows 7 supports TRIM natively for flash drives; something that mac OSX lacks

)No Blu-ray on macs

)No e-SATA

Yeah Macs are really ahead when it comes to using yesterday's technology

how much is the cost of a monitor 27" inch IPS dont you no what is IPS ??? you can buy one and try to bulit in your pc in there behind the monitor , see how much you spend....:D

[Eidorian]

haven't been watching the graphics card scene, the '4850' is a bad card? is there a bto version?The HD 4850 is a midrange performer around $100 for 1680 x 1050 gaming. It's from June 2008 in its desktop incarnation as well.

ATI has already released the HD 5000 Series and nVidia offers more powerful cards.

[Wakashizuma]

how much is the cost of a monitor 27" inch IPS dont you no what is IPS ??? you can buy one and try to bulit in your pc in there behind the monitor , see how much you spend....:D

Considering over 90% of the world purchase and choose Windows over Macs on a daily basis and world's biggest corporations run their company on PCs, I'd say it appears than an overwhelmingly large number of people in the world choose a proper hardware over an obsolete overpriced piece of a computer even if it has a quality IPS screen because you know people do stuff with their computer and want to be fast rather staring at a screen

It hurts when 90% of the world flat out rejects you in a market you created yourself!

And by the way, it's not about being cheap. It's about Value. People are not in the habit of paying twice for something. Specially that $2000 computer that is unable to run flash properly!

[vaizki]

Yes yes yes can we now fail in peace with our beloved overhyped underpowered ripoff toys? I'm sure you can get more frags per second somewhere else.

[Quasi26]

Considering over 90% of the world purchase and choose Windows over Macs on a daily basis and world's biggest corporations run their company on PCs, I'd say it appears than an overwhelmingly large number of people in the world choose a proper hardware over an obsolete overpriced piece of a computer even if it has a quality IPS screen because you know people do stuff with their computer and want to be fast rather staring at a screen

It hurts when 90% of the world flat out rejects you in a market you created yourself!

And by the way, it's not about being cheap. It's about Value. People are not in the habit of paying twice for something. Specially that $2000 computer that is unable to run flash properly!

Yes, you are certainly right. The same way the rest of the world rejects Ferrari or Bugatti, or even BMW cars. Because they are obviously inferior to a Ford, or Kia.... OR It could be people buy what they can afford. Just because the "majority" of people buy something doesn't make it better. Have fun being a sheep buying what everyone else buys. I prefer a quality piece of equipment, with a quality OS, and quality aesthetics. That may not be everyone's experience, but it is mine. My teams support thousands of Windows machines every day and I have any combination of power or config at my fingertips to buy and test. At the end of the day I go home to my Mac. It works well in ALL aspects of computing, not just the cheapest box of hardware that could be cobbled together.

[polaris20]

ATI Radeon 4850? Really? I thought we are in 2009 and 5XXX series are already getting deployed by PC makers. The pace of technological development in Apple land must be really slow

Although I have to say it comes handy to chip manufactures since they can dump their old outdated hardware to Apple buyers and charge them twice. They know nobody buys obsolete hardware in PC land....

Welcome to two weeks ago, when this was already covered.

[Wakashizuma]

Yes yes yes can we now fail in peace with our beloved overhyped underpowered ripoff toys? I'm sure you can get more frags per second somewhere else.

More framerates. Exclusive Pro software such as AutoCADand many more. Did I mention all the big companies in the world DEPEND on Microsoft?

So yeah. Stick to those overpriced oboslete toys. There is a reason that only 4% for the world is willing to bend over for such a rip off!

By the way, how is the iDelete feature in OSX coming along? or the new feature in Apple TV that deletes your content? It Just Works!

[sbarton]

For anything not gaming, 4850 is fine

You'd need a better GPU if

) Want to play modern complex 3D games on your new $2000+ home computer
)You do folding on the GPU and you want fast performance
)You want a faster GPU for future GPU applications

For everyday task including photoshop, 4850 is plenty

There, fixed that for you

[Gagaha]

By the way, how is the iDelete feature in OSX coming along? or the new feature in Apple TV that deletes your content? It Just Works!

hahaha... yeah, windows works so much better! :rolleyes:

[couto27]

Considering over 90% of the world purchase and choose Windows over Macs on a daily basis and world's biggest corporations run their company on PCs, I'd say it appears than an overwhelmingly large number of people in the world choose a proper hardware over an obsolete overpriced piece of a computer even if it has a quality IPS screen because you know people do stuff with their computer and want to be fast rather staring at a screen

It hurts when 90% of the world flat out rejects you in a market you created yourself!

And by the way, it's not about being cheap. It's about Value. People are not in the habit of paying twice for something. Specially that $2000 computer that is unable to run flash properly!

dont talk about value.... your $2000 pc will cost less than $1000 in 6 months
and a imac still worth a lot after few years

90% of the people you talking , at least 40% dont now what they are buying. you are part of the 40% im sure.

[fredsarran]

ATI Radeon 4850? Really? I thought we are in 2009 and 5XXX series are already getting deployed by PC makers. The pace of technological development in Apple land must be really slow

Although I have to say it comes handy to chip manufactures since they can dump their old outdated hardware to Apple buyers and charge them twice. They know nobody buys obsolete hardware in PC land....

Wow,... in PC land you have great hardware for peanuts... but you have sh...t software. So it basically makes the hardware useless in my opinion. Oh and in PC land, design does not exist !

[Stevep67]

I'm worried about the GPU in this thing for 3D modeling/animation and video editing. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Anyone use a similar config for 3D?

[fredsarran]

More framerates. Exclusive Pro software such as AutoCADand many more. Did I mention all the big companies in the world DEPEND on Microsoft?

So yeah. Stick to those overpriced oboslete toys. There is a reason that only 4% for the world is willing to bend over for such a rip off!

By the way, how is the iDelete feature in OSX coming along? or the new feature in Apple TV that deletes your content? It Just Works!

Apple is not God, and does make errors hardware and software's, like every maker and developer on this planet. They use not the latest hardware on the market, and they certainly does not use Microsoft.

Yes it is overpriced, but I am willing to pay this and more for a reliable computer. I have been a Windows user for a long time, and it would crash at least 5 times a day. My iMac might crash once a month when doing something very demanding.

Nearly all the big companies uses a PC, and they have a massive support team behind them for all the problems they encounter with there PC's )they certainly create jobs). BUT most creative professionals (photos, movies, music, press industries) uses MACS.

So please leave us alone and play your games with your super over powered mind blowing PC because I clearly do not envy you.

[PeterQVenkman]

I'm worried about the GPU in this thing for 3D modeling/animation and video editing. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Anyone use a similar config for 3D?

What app are you using?

[couto27]

i already watch the movie and its great. have a look

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LApncvI0d2M&feature=related

[Stevep67]

What app are you using?

Cinema 4D, After Effects, FCP, Adobe Suite

[TennisandMusic]

Man some of you guys make me embarrassed to use a mac.

Apple hardware is certainly no better than PC hardware. My 1k PC kicks the pants off a 3k mac pro, both performance and hardware quality wise (of course I built it myself).

OSX is no better than Windows 7, in general, and in many ways is quite a bit behind.

Apple writes some of the buggiest software I have ever seen, and completely drags rear on their "pro apps."

Some of you guys really need to take the blinders off. This whole "I come home and my computer just works!" bit is hilarious, and more than a bit tired. My PC's have WAY less trouble than my macs. My PC "just works." My macbook pro (2009 model) is slow, and doesn't allow me to do some basic things (like easily edit avchd video, or you know...CUT and paste). I think some of you guys think Windows is still on version "95".

Apple truly has their diehards in a vice. They provide inferior mass produced hardware at boutique prices, with a decent OS, put them in very nice designs and people eat it up. I also find it funny that some people actually call Windows users "sheep" when you can generally do anything you want with Windows, on any hardware, but if you want Apple you gotta do it the Steve Jobs way, and that is the ONLY way. By definition Apple users (or ones who ONLY use that, I use OSX but I don't drink the kool-aid) are much more akin to sheep than windows users.

Some of you guys just need to get out more. Take a breath. Etc.

[Bubba Satori]

+1

Exactly what blows me away with these machines. Everything is great looking and that 27 inch screen is awesome. I go to the spec page and my jaw drops. A 4850 powering that screen!! There goes my dream of a perfect dual boot computer.


That was a nice, mid-range card last year. It will do the job. Just seems a shame on a brand new computer that you might keep for the next three or four years, that you can't have a new 5800. But this is par for the course for Apple as far as video cards goes. I bet they got those year old ATIs dirt cheap, too. Great for margins and most users won't care.

[PeterQVenkman]

Cinema 4D, After Effects, FCP, Adobe Suite

My guess is you should be fine. C4D doesn't see any real benefit on workstation class video cards on Windows or Mac systems. After Effects will fly, Photoshop should be just fine.

But wait a little while for the iMac Cinebench numbers to get released. It's what I'm waiting for. ;)

[PeterQVenkman]

>snip<

Some of you guys just need to get out more. Take a breath. Etc.

What better way to make your final point than with a long winded rant on a forum for computers you don't like?

[couto27]

Man some of you guys make me embarrassed to use a mac.

someone needs to be love....:)

[Bubba Satori]

Wow,... in PC land you have great hardware for peanuts... but you have sh...t software. So it basically makes the hardware useless in my opinion. Oh and in PC land, design does not exist !

Nope, same software as Mac folks, only a lot more of it. And often times, more up to date versions too. :D
"The hardware is useless" ? Well, if you're going to be a drama queen and over react, might as well go all the way.
More variety, more choices, more bang for the buck. Oh the huge Manatee.

PC design doesn't exist ? :rolleyes: PCs come in hundreds if not thousands of different configuration and case designs that come in new colors and varieties practically every month. The four Apple computers have had the same, boring, stale look for three years. Where's that much talked about innovation ? :confused:

[couto27]

hold your horses... dont make another mac vs pc fight again and again, im sick and tired

new imacs are shipping anyone getting another confirmation.

[CQd44]

Nope, same software as Mac folks, only a lot more of it. And often times, more up to date versions too. :D
"The hardware is useless" ? Well, if you're going to be a drama queen and over react, might as well go all the way.
More variety, more choices, more bang for the buck. Oh the huge Manatee.

PC design doesn't exist ? :rolleyes: PCs come in hundreds if not thousands of different configuration and case designs that come in new colors and varieties practically every month. The four Apple computers have had the same, boring, stale look for three years. Where's that much talked about innovation ? :confused:

Think different means to have one of the four possible designs and having to share those with millions of others, obviously.

[cmvsm]

Yeah the pace is much faster

)PCs had quad core chips since 2007 (for $250) while first imacs with quad core are just coming out

)PCs had i7 920 processor since November 2008 while Mac had their first Mac Pro (which is a Xeon branded 920) in 2009

)PCs had 4850 since 2008 and now they are using 5870, 5850, 5770 and 5750. 4850 is considered obsolete in PC land

)Windows 7 supports TRIM natively for flash drives; something that mac OSX lacks

)No Blu-ray on macs

)No e-SATA

Yeah Macs are really ahead when it comes to using yesterday's technology

No doubt PC hardware is state of the art, however....it means squat when the OS sucks balls.

[LagunaSol]

PC design doesn't exist ? :rolleyes: PCs come in hundreds if not thousands of different configuration and case designs that come in new colors and varieties practically every month. The four Apple computers have had the same, boring, stale look for three years. Where's that much talked about innovation ? :confused:

I would love to see a good-looking PC. The HP Blackbird was OK. Most of it looks like complete and utter crap. Seriously.

And slapping a new color and screenprint on a laptop lid (which pretty much sums up Dell's industrial design efforts, except for the I-want-to-be-a-MacBook-Air Adamo) is innovation in your mind? Really?

I'd rather have good-looking design for 3 years (the Apple world) than crap designs unleashed every 3 months (the PC world).

Frankly, the current Mac Pro and the current MacBook Pro could go a decade in their current forms and I'd love them just as much. They're just that good.

Timeless design is...timeless.

[Quasi26]

Man some of you guys make me embarrassed to use a mac.

Apple hardware is certainly no better than PC hardware. My 1k PC kicks the pants off a 3k mac pro, both performance and hardware quality wise (of course I built it myself).

OSX is no better than Windows 7, in general, and in many ways is quite a bit behind.

Apple writes some of the buggiest software I have ever seen, and completely drags rear on their "pro apps."

Some of you guys really need to take the blinders off. This whole "I come home and my computer just works!" bit is hilarious, and more than a bit tired. My PC's have WAY less trouble than my macs. My PC "just works." My macbook pro (2009 model) is slow, and doesn't allow me to do some basic things (like easily edit avchd video, or you know...CUT and paste). I think some of you guys think Windows is still on version "95".

Apple truly has their diehards in a vice. They provide inferior mass produced hardware at boutique prices, with a decent OS, put them in very nice designs and people eat it up. I also find it funny that some people actually call Windows users "sheep" when you can generally do anything you want with Windows, on any hardware, but if you want Apple you gotta do it the Steve Jobs way, and that is the ONLY way. By definition Apple users (or ones who ONLY use that, I use OSX but I don't drink the kool-aid) are much more akin to sheep than windows users.

Some of you guys just need to get out more. Take a breath. Etc.

I will asume the "sheep" comment was directed at me. I did not call every windows user a sheep, I use it as well. However if the argument is "Use windows because everyone else does" then yes, you are a sheep. Use what you need, not what "90%" of others use.

As for it just work, for me it does, your milage may vary. However working in IT and using all flavors of Windows, Unix and OSX daily, I happen to find my OSX config just works.

As for hardware, while I read many message boards complaining about hardware, in my 10 years with Apple hardware, they have been very solid. Not perfect but solid.

As for Windows, Windows 7 is fantastic. Its on all of my Windows machines and so far has been rock solid for me. Unfortunately it has been generally available for a few weeks, and available to businesses since august. Lets give it a little more time before proclaiming it the second coming.

[LagunaSol]

Exactly what blows me away with these machines. Everything is great looking and that 27 inch screen is awesome. I go to the spec page and my jaw drops. A 4850 powering that screen!! There goes my dream of a perfect dual boot computer.

Agreed. It's a real kick in the stones that Apple continues its tradition of putting non-cutting-edge GPUs in its cutting-edge computers. Good grief, a GT 120 in the Mac Pro??? The same 4850 from the last iMac revision in the new droolworthy 27" models?

Shame. :(

Guess I'll wait for the next revision.

[couto27]

i think we have seen the windows community coming where a lot to see whats going on in so well talk macworld reviews.

dont worry, the way apple is working macrumors will be small , for so manys in a few years .

how much macrumors servers hold ??:)

[jouster]

No doubt PC hardware is state of the art, however....it means squat when the OS sucks balls.

Windows 7 doesn't suck balls.

[organerito]

hahaha... yeah, windows works so much better! :rolleyes:

Yes, Windows 7 just works. It has some little bugs, but nothing as embarrassing and mediocre as the SL bugs.

[Buzz Bumble]

ATI Radeon 4850? Really? I thought we are in 2009 and 5XXX series are already getting deployed by PC makers. The pace of technological development in Apple land must be really slow

Although I have to say it comes handy to chip manufactures since they can dump their old outdated hardware to Apple buyers and charge them twice. They know nobody buys obsolete hardware in PC land....

That shows what you know. I have a new Dell advertising brochure here that has an "iMac clone" which uses an ATI HD4570 graphics card .. which is ranked as number 221 on that table that someone else linked to.

None of the other desktop machines in the brochure even list a graphics card, although one does say "Onboard Intel X4500 graphics controller" and a couple of othres do have an "recommended upgrade" to a nVIDIA E8400.

[Bafflefish]

As much as I'd have liked to have seen an option such as the 58** series when spec'ing out the 27" iMac, the reality is, TSMC yields for 40nm GPUs have been atrocious, to say the least, and thus we'd likely be looking at even worse delays in terms of new iMacs shipping out for those who configured them with 58** series GPUs.

And for most non-GPU intensive tasks, the 4850 should be fine with the 27" screen.

However, that having been said, it does seem like Apple was fairly lazy in the design & development department, as you would have thought they could have provided at least some type of better BTO option (given that they had to spend design time for getting the i5/i7 into the iMac case, they could have engineered a better BTO option during that time also).

Ultimately though (and no offense to those who do limited gaming), but the iMacs just aren't good gaming platforms. It's mediocre, but you'd have to have a fairly "low" resolution (think 1680x1050) to not have to suffer horrendously when playing any of the latest games at moderately-high graphics settings on the 4850 or other cards. The fact Apple keeps using mid-range GPUs for high-resolution monitors, shows they don't really care about whether people game or do GPU-intensive tasks on the iMac or not, lol.

[mr_matalino]

Still waiting on any word yet from Amazon.

[flpanthersfan37]

Just noticed that my credit card has a preliminary charge from apple for the price of my core i7. This is the charge that shows up when they check to make sure you have credit available and is indicative that apple is preparing to ship mine since they don't charge until it ships. Hopefully I get the notice tomorrow or wednesday.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

6-12 months is a good guess. Usually trickles down in a revision or two. 21.5" core i7 would be one bad ass little machine.


Anyone care to take an educated guess as to when we'll see i5's and/or i7's in 21-inch iMacs? Are there currently any smaller All-In-One PC's with an i7 or i5?

I'd love the power of an i7, but I don't need, or even want, a 27-inch screen. I'd actually prefer a 17-inch screen, but I know heat is an issue.

[SortaLucid34]

I've done it both ways, I know that i'm getting certain limitations and I'm paying more and so on and so on, call me a sucker but I can just tell you that my experience has been much more positive on practically every level in the long run, and that is MY personal experience. Given that, i will invest money in another Apple computer, and trust me i considered every alternative for what i should do with my hard earned money. It's worth it to me - period. end.

Anyyyyways..... i just came on here to see if anyone got any emails about their i7 shipping. I understand that the holdup is on the graphics card so i would imagine that if the i5s are shipping then the i7s are too? Maybe just wishful thinking but yea...

[RazHyena]

Nope, same software as Mac folks, only a lot more of it. And often times, more up to date versions too. :D
"The hardware is useless" ? Well, if you're going to be a drama queen and over react, might as well go all the way.
More variety, more choices, more bang for the buck. Oh the huge Manatee.

PC design doesn't exist ? :rolleyes: PCs come in hundreds if not thousands of different configuration and case designs that come in new colors and varieties practically every month. The four Apple computers have had the same, boring, stale look for three years. Where's that much talked about innovation ? :confused:

Is a green colored iMac too much to ask for? It would go so nice with my forest themed room. :D

[RazHyena]

I would love to see a good-looking PC. The HP Blackbird was OK. Most of it looks like complete and utter crap. Seriously.

And slapping a new color and screenprint on a laptop lid (which pretty much sums up Dell's industrial design efforts, except for the I-want-to-be-a-MacBook-Air Adamo) is innovation in your mind? Really?

I'd rather have good-looking design for 3 years (the Apple world) than crap designs unleashed every 3 months (the PC world).

Frankly, the current Mac Pro and the current MacBook Pro could go a decade in their current forms and I'd love them just as much. They're just that good.

Timeless design is...timeless.

Isn't that subjective, though? I mean, do you really think any computer that isn't aluminum just looks like crap? :confused:

I don't want a macbook that reminds me of my Bosch dishwasher, but then again, that's just me...

[polaris20]

Man some of you guys make me embarrassed to use a mac.

Apple hardware is certainly no better than PC hardware. My 1k PC kicks the pants off a 3k mac pro, both performance and hardware quality wise (of course I built it myself).

Wow, you can build an awesome computer! Congrats!!


OSX is no better than Windows 7, in general, and in many ways is quite a bit behind.


Neither is better than the other, just different.

Some of you guys really need to take the blinders off. This whole "I come home and my computer just works!" bit is hilarious, and more than a bit tired. My PC's have WAY less trouble than my macs. My PC "just works." My macbook pro (2009 model) is slow, and doesn't allow me to do some basic things (like easily edit avchd video, or you know...CUT and paste). I think some of you guys think Windows is still on version "95".


Thanks for the personal anecdote. My Macs just work, sorry if that's a cliche for you, but it's true. I realize it's not that way for everyone, but it is for me. If you can't edit AVCHD video and can't cut and paste, you might want to either learn how to use the computer or take it in to get it fixed.

Apple truly has their diehards in a vice. They provide inferior mass produced hardware at boutique prices, with a decent OS, put them in very nice designs and people eat it up.

Which hardware is better? Dell? Not really. HP? Absolutely not. Lenovo? Probably on par with their Thinkpads.

I also find it funny that some people actually call Windows users "sheep" when you can generally do anything you want with Windows, on any hardware, but if you want Apple you gotta do it the Steve Jobs way, and that is the ONLY way. By definition Apple users (or ones who ONLY use that, I use OSX but I don't drink the kool-aid) are much more akin to sheep than windows users.

Some of you guys just need to get out more. Take a breath. Etc.

Sounds like Macs aren't for you, and that's fine. How about selling it, and quit whining about it?

I don't drink the Kool Aid either, and I use more than just OS X. But really the concept of someone having a bad experience about an OS or product and suddenly everyone else who likes it are fanboys or sheep is ridiculous.

[j-traxx]

People that own macintosh computers usually love them. they usually love the company. the even love the CEO. no other technology company has such an emotionally invested consumer base. I had pc's from win 98se to vista and now 7. walk up to ten diff pc owners and say "so you're working on windows" and see the apathetic response they give you. next go to 10 mac users and say "so you use mac huh?" and the consistent response is a smile followed with some words to express the fondness they have for their product. If they are fools and idiots then let em be. it's ok to think different.

[MorphingDragon]

People that own macintosh computers usually love them. they usually love the company. the even love the CEO. no other technology company has such an emotionally invested consumer base. I had pc's from win 98se to vista and now 7. walk up to ten diff pc owners and say "so you're working on windows" and see the apathetic response they give you. next go to 10 mac users and say "so you use mac huh?" and the consistent response is a smile followed with some words to express the fondness they have for their product. If they are fools and idiots then let em be. it's ok to think different.

SJ's bed is so comfy. Its like I'm sleeping on air...

[toughboy]

Considering over 90% of the world purchase and choose Windows over Macs on a daily basis and world's biggest corporations run their company on PCs, I'd say it appears than an overwhelmingly large number of people in the world choose a proper hardware over an obsolete overpriced piece of a computer even if it has a quality IPS screen because you know people do stuff with their computer and want to be fast rather staring at a screen

It hurts when 90% of the world flat out rejects you in a market you created yourself!

And by the way, it's not about being cheap. It's about Value. People are not in the habit of paying twice for something. Specially that $2000 computer that is unable to run flash properly!

/shoo away :mad:.. If you wanna troll here, just **** and take your piece of garbage of an opinion elsewhere..

[scroto]

Yeah the pace is much faster

)PCs had quad core chips since 2007 (for $250) while first imacs with quad core are just coming out

)PCs had i7 920 processor since November 2008 while Mac had their first Mac Pro (which is a Xeon branded 920) in 2009

)PCs had 4850 since 2008 and now they are using 5870, 5850, 5770 and 5750. 4850 is considered obsolete in PC land

)Windows 7 supports TRIM natively for flash drives; something that mac OSX lacks

)No Blu-ray on macs

)No e-SATA

Yeah Macs are really ahead when it comes to using yesterday's technology

You forgot to mention 6 core gulftown CPU's in a couple months.

[CQd44]

Yes, Windows 7 just works. It has some little bugs, but nothing as embarrassing and mediocre as the SL bugs.

What're some known bugs with Windows 7? All I've noticed was the occasional freeze on my laptop if I turn off wifi before opening it back up and waking it from sleep.

[ugokutana]

just checked my order. although it still said my i7 will be shipped in november, i couldnt change or cancel my order any more. may be its already under production. :)

[Shodan]

Had mine for the past week already - that's the UK too.

[Ironduke]

Even though the CPU in the new 27" is desktop, isnt the gfx still a mobile version?

Have Ati even released a mobile 5850?

[MorphingDragon]

Even though the CPU in the new 27" is desktop, isnt the gfx still a mobile version?

Have Ati even released a mobile 5850?

Not yet, but good luck getting an EFI hack and related .Kexts.

[Shivetya]

People that own macintosh computers usually love them. they usually love the company. the even love the CEO. no other technology company has such an emotionally invested consumer base. .

There is a medical term for this type of problem.

Honestly, the ones who fall under your description worry me more than millions of unprotected windows machines.

[Shivetya]

Even though the CPU in the new 27" is desktop, isnt the gfx still a mobile version?

Have Ati even released a mobile 5850?

Based on a Youtube video from Europe (was it a Dane?) the hex numbering was declared to be a mobile unit.

[German]

)PCs had 4850 since 2008 and now they are using 5870, 5850, 5770 and 5750. 4850 is considered obsolete in PC land


The 4850 in the iMac is the mobility Version (even slower).
I think the 5xxxx mobility isn't out yet?

[healeydave]

be interesting to see if anyone from the UK or Europe has received shipping confirmation..

I ordered the big one, a quad core 27" within hours of the UK Apple Store re-opening on launch day. I haven't had any shipping notice yet!

I just called Apple and they say I have a order commitment date of 25th November which apparently is still not cast in stone :-(

[Pressure]

ATI Radeon 4850? Really? I thought we are in 2009 and 5XXX series are already getting deployed by PC makers. The pace of technological development in Apple land must be really slow

Although I have to say it comes handy to chip manufactures since they can dump their old outdated hardware to Apple buyers and charge them twice. They know nobody buys obsolete hardware in PC land....

+1

Exactly what blows me away with these machines. Everything is great looking and that 27 inch screen is awesome. I go to the spec page and my jaw drops. A 4850 powering that screen!! There goes my dream of a perfect dual boot computer.

This chart seems to be making the point of the OP - the 5850 is about twice the performance. A quick Google search indicates the retail price is about $100 more than the 4850, (So $50 more OEM?) - it does seem a shame not to have it in the quad.

Can someone here explain the difference in performance the video card makes to NOT gaming? (But rather image editing: e.g., Aperture & Photoshop.)

Does Snow Leopard use the GPU for "general" processing? I remember a utility you could run that allowed 10.5 to use the GPU for some tasks...

Yeah the pace is much faster

)PCs had quad core chips since 2007 (for $250) while first imacs with quad core are just coming out

)PCs had i7 920 processor since November 2008 while Mac had their first Mac Pro (which is a Xeon branded 920) in 2009

)PCs had 4850 since 2008 and now they are using 5870, 5850, 5770 and 5750. 4850 is considered obsolete in PC land

)Windows 7 supports TRIM natively for flash drives; something that mac OSX lacks

)No Blu-ray on macs

)No e-SATA

Yeah Macs are really ahead when it comes to using yesterday's technology

The HD 4850 is a midrange performer around $100 for 1680 x 1050 gaming. It's from June 2008 in its desktop incarnation as well.

ATI has already released the HD 5000 Series and nVidia offers more powerful cards.

The 4850 in the iMac is the mobility Version (even slower).
I think the 5xxxx mobility isn't out yet?

The only currently shipping mobile product from AMD faster than the Mobility Radeon HD 4850 is the Mobility Radeon HD 4870.

Unfortunately there isn't a Mobility Radeon HD 5xxx series until probably early next year, so the iMac had to stay with the Mobility Radeon HD 48x0 series. NVIDIA wasn't an option due to various reasons.

[Mike in Kansas]

The only currently shipping mobile product from AMD faster than the Mobility Radeon HD 4850 is the Mobility Radeon HD 4870.

Unfortunately there isn't a Mobility Radeon HD 5xxx series until probably early next year, so the iMac had to stay with the Mobility Radeon HD 48x0 series. NVIDIA wasn't an option due to various reasons.

How dare you use facts instead of wild ass speculation and conjecture!

[VoR]

How dare you use facts instead of wild ass speculation and conjecture!
NVIDIA wasn't an option due to various reasons.

Various reasons? :)
And...They have to use a mobile chip?

[SmileyDude]

Various reasons? :)
And...They have to use a mobile chip?

Traditionally Apple has used mobile chips for both the CPU and GPU in the iMac lineup. Just because they are able to use a desktop CPU in the 27" doesn't mean that they could automatically start using a desktop GPU as well.

I don't know the specifics, but my educated guess is that the heat of a desktop CPU and GPU would push the machine over the edge into unreliable territory without increased cooling capacity. And Apple has never been into the whole "shove a bunch of fans into the machine to cool it down" philosophy. So to keep the machine running quiet (which may or may not matter to some customers -- but that's beyond the point) they stuck with a mobile GPU instead.

[VoR]

Traditionally Apple has used mobile chips for both the CPU and GPU in the iMac lineup. Just because they are able to use a desktop CPU in the 27" doesn't mean that they could automatically start using a desktop GPU as well.

I don't know the specifics, but my educated guess is that the heat of a desktop CPU and GPU would push the machine over the edge into unreliable territory without increased cooling capacity. And Apple has never been into the whole "shove a bunch of fans into the machine to cool it down" philosophy. So to keep the machine running quiet (which may or may not matter to some customers -- but that's beyond the point) they stuck with a mobile GPU instead.

I know what apple have done traditionally, but is using a mobile gpu what makes the imac the imac?
Many people said they couldn't use desktop cpus because of heat restraints, that's obviously changed now.
You're right, apple have never been one to shove a load of fans into a machine to cool it - they seem to let their machines run hot. It's not like 'a load of fans' means you've got a loud machine anyway, again it's form factor issue.
The heatsinks in imacs have never been particularly impressive, especially considering what they're trying to achieve with the size of the case. My point is that it's their machine, they can obviously design and build it with any components - putting a desktop chip on their own board I would assume costs more than integrating a reference design off mobile specs, to cool a chip you just need a lump of copper and some airflow... Marketing>Cost>Looks>everything else

[WATCHDOG]

+++

I've have/had PC's and MAC's and - overall - I prefer MAC.

This nouveau uber-focus upon Graphics Cards seems a tad over the top..

The 4850 ain't the world's biggest&fastest GPU,
yet it ain't iShabby by any means.. !!!

AND, has any PC manufacturer yet offered
a close-comparable-to an -> i7 - 27" iMac All-in-One?

AND, one which sports a GPU clearly superior to the 4850?

iThink Forever Whiny SpeedFreak PeeCee Trolls
should be given the ass-spanking that they're begging for,
and THEN be Forever Banned to NeverLand... :D

ELSE, purchase an :apple: MacPro like us nouveau riche folk do... :p

+++

[bwbboot]

i thought this thread is about Intel Core i5 Quad-Core iMac Begins Shipping, mm must have been wrong *sigh*

[kingtj]

Better question; Will it blend?

Oh, wait .....


Can it play Youtube videos? :o

[butterfly0fdoom]

So to keep the machine running quiet (which may or may not matter to some customers -- but that's beyond the point) they stuck with a mobile GPU instead.

The noise actually does matter; my school's digital recording labs use iMacs specifically for that reason.

[LagunaSol]

i thought this thread is about Intel Core i5 Quad-Core iMac Begins Shipping, mm must have been wrong *sigh*

The thread was derailed on page 1 by infamous forum troll, Wakashizuma. Surprise surprise.

(MacRumors forum mods don't seem to care about reining in the trolls and flamebaiters who run rampant on this board these days.) :(

[Solidarnosc]

Frankly, the current Mac Pro and the current MacBook Pro could go a decade in their current forms and I'd love them just as much. They're just that good.

Timeless design is...timeless.

You inspired me to register on the forum and add to your post.

As a graduation gift, I received a Dual 500 MHz G4 PowerMac in May of 2000 from my parents. Over the years, I added RAM, added hard drives (four internal), and added a couple of PCI cards to add functionally (i.e., USB2 interface)- plus a DVD burner and pro sound interface. I still use this computer every day, including for graphic design work, non-HD video editing, and music production. It has remained turned on for 70-80% of its life and has never failed me. Even 9+ years later, the industrial design of the tower does not look dated. People see and use my computer and assume they're on a machine no older than 2 years. Bottom line, its has stood the test of time- both from a functional and design standpoint.

FYI, I am awaiting my i7 iMac without bitching about it. I've been patient for nearly a decade, what's an extra couple of weeks? :)

[LagunaSol]

Even 9+ years later, the industrial design of the tower does not look dated.

Agreed. I loved my G4 Power Mac dearly. That design still looks better than anything on the PC market (that isn't from Apple) today. And the way the case opened and exposed its inner bits was sheer genius.

The PC makers confuse frequent design with good design. I don't understand why the Dells and HPs of the world don't see the benefit of longer design cycles. Isn't it a real shock to the bottom line to roll out 12 different laptop designs every year? It seems when you're trying to squeeze out a few nickels of profit from a $400 laptop that you'd want to maximize your design efforts. Alas, no. The IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad fortunately bucks the trend of daily design refreshes as far as PCs go.

Apple nails it in this regard. They slave over every minute detail of a design before they roll it out, then they use that design for several years. And this attention to detail translates to customer love. (Sorry haters, but it's true.)

I have an HP/Compaq laptop sitting in front of me and I don't see a single appealing detail on the thing. Not one. It looks cheap, it feels cheap, and it evokes absolutely zero emotional response. And it looks like every other PC laptop out there. But hey, at least you have those brightly-colored Intel and Windows stickers to distract your eye from the worthless industrial design. :(

A MacBook Pro, on the other hand - you're simply not going to mistake it for anything else on the market (though there are some copycats and pretenders out there).

[zedsdead]

My i7 is Prepared for Shipment!

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/kingsreign2003/Screenshot2009-11-10at509.jpg

[v.stedman]

I interrupt this ridiculous war to say that I too have received a notification of my i5 shipping

Shipment Date:
10/11/2009

Delivers by:
16/11/2009

And I might also note that I did sort of BTO in that I changed the Wireless Keyboard to a Wired one.

Oh and that

MAX SUCK MAN JEEZ WINDOWS PWNZ I MEAN 90% OF THE FREAKING WORLD MAN CAN'T BE WRONG I MEAN PWNZORSZ MAN PWZORZZZZZ NOOB LOL ROFLMAO

[Dustman]

Oh and that

MAX SUCK MAN JEEZ WINDOWS PWNZ I MEAN 90% OF THE FREAKING WORLD MAN CAN'T BE WRONG I MEAN PWNZORSZ MAN PWZORZZZZZ NOOB LOL ROFLMAO

Thank you. Finally someone makes sense. Screw Macs. It's like... why should I have a hot boyfriend/girlfriend, when 90% of the world has an ugly one. Sure they're insecure and hiddeous, but so damn easy.

[LagunaSol]

MAX SUCK MAN JEEZ WINDOWS PWNZ I MEAN 90% OF THE FREAKING WORLD MAN CAN'T BE WRONG I MEAN PWNZORSZ MAN PWZORZZZZZ NOOB LOL ROFLMAO

Post of the day. :D

[Buzz Bumble]

so the iMac had to stay with the Mobility Radeon HD 48x0 series. NVIDIA wasn't an option due to various reasons.

Not strictly true. The lowest end 21.5" iMac does actually ship with a nVIDIA 9400M graphics card (as used in the MacBooks and MacBook Pros). I haven't checked to see if that's build-to-order swappable to the ATI Radeon 4670 or 4850 cards used in the other iMacs. :)

[Shodan]

Re-code YouTube so MP4 files play in QuickTime instead of scrub Flash pl0x.

[chesterdad]

[QUOTE=Wakashizuma;8786001]90% of the world purchase and choose Windows over Macs on a daily basis and world's biggest corporations run their company on PCs, I'd say it appears than an overwhelmingly large number of people in the world choose a proper hardware over an obsolete overpriced piece of a computer even if it has a quality IPS screen because you know people do stuff with their computer and want to be fast rather staring at a screen

It hurts when 90% of the world flat out rejects you in a market you created yourself!

Yea, and 90% of corporations choose the white Ford Taurus as their company car. Should we all buy one then? I always look at corporations and IS departments for thought leadership. NOT!

Most corporations just need a browser window to access their legacy applications anyway. Not exactly stiff hardware requirements there.

[jimmyjoemccrow]

Just a correction here, its 95% of the world. The 90% statistic is America only.

[nek]

Wow! This has to be one of the most useless threads I've ever read (but maybe that's because I rarely come on here).

Has anyone received their quad-core iMac yet? Is it fast? How does it compare to your previous computer?

[pr5owner]

No doubt PC hardware is state of the art, however....it means squat when the OS sucks balls.

lol have you tried using windows 7? its the most stable OS ive used in a long time, and i use Ubuntu, W7, WXP, WVista, OSX 10.5 and 10.6 almost daily, i have to support all operating systems at work and personally for friends and friends of friends.

10.5 beach balls quite often especially on mac minis
ubuntu is great but 9.10 has stupid bugs that just piss me off, bluetooth will stop working randomly 9.04 is still my choice.
10.6 has those random deleting issues as well as breaking alot of apps that were working previously.
vista is slow but stable and works.
XP is just old and has no support anymore.

[kb27973]

OSX is no better than Windows 7, in general, and in many ways is quite a bit behind.


I usually stay out of these flame wars, but this was so funny it made tea come out of my nose. :o I'm an Oracle DBA that has done contract work for many customers, some very large. 90% of these companies use UNIX. I did some 'rescue' work for a well known womens makeup company that tried to do clustered Oracle on Windows. Bless their hearts, they poured a ton of money into getting it working correctly. I have heard some good things about Windows 7, but lets face it anything is going to look great compared to Vista. :D

I currently own a 2 year old iMac that I'm selling to get a new one. Yes, really, I'm selling it! All my old PCs just went into the trash. For years I bought PCs but after my last one gave out I swore I would never buy another. I lied, I just bought an HP laptop. First thing I did was wipe the drive of Vista and put Linux and vmware on it. Now it's a good laptop.

UNIX, whatever flavor you choose - Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, Mac OS X and even Linux are light years ahead of Windows.

[MorphingDragon]

I usually stay out of these flame wars, but this was so funny it made tea come out of my nose. :o I'm an Oracle DBA that has done contract work for many customers, some very large. 90% of these companies use UNIX. I did some 'rescue' work for a well known womens makeup company that tried to do clustered Oracle on Windows. Bless their hearts, they poured a ton of money into getting it working correctly. I have heard some good things about Windows 7, but lets face it anything is going to look great compared to Vista. :D

I currently own a 2 year old iMac that I'm selling to get a new one. Yes, really, I'm selling it! All my old PCs just went into the trash. For years I bought PCs but after my last one gave out I swore I would never buy another. I lied, I just bought an HP laptop. First thing I did was wipe the drive of Vista and put Linux and vmware on it. Now it's a good laptop.

UNIX, whatever flavor you choose - Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, Mac OS X and even Linux are light years ahead of Windows.

Apart form the fact that oracle is designed for use on Unix. thats like saying KDE sucks because it wont run on Windows.

[kb27973]

Apart form the fact that oracle is designed for use on Unix. thats like saying KDE sucks because it wont run on Windows.

Doesn't matter what software you run on it the OS is flawed. Windows started down the wrong path when they tried to put an interface on DOS. Although I liked DOS it never crashed on me.

[MorphingDragon]

Doesn't matter what software you run on it the OS is flawed. Windows started down the wrong path when they tried to put an interface on DOS. Although I liked DOS it never crashed on me.

Ok then, Linux sucks because it wont run Office 2007.

[kb27973]

Ok then, Linux sucks because it wont run Office 2007.

Why would you want to run Office 2007?

[kroeks]

hurry up already :(
still waiting: Shipping in November

[healeydave]

Ok then, Linux sucks because it wont run Office 2007.

Why would you want to run Office 2007?

Hahaha, nice one kb27973, so funny, its like all the Microsoft Boys that troll threads in this forum, they are so blinkered to Microsoft software, they think we all really need / want it.

When I first migrated to MAC's, I used MS Office for Mac for a year because I blindly thought I should stick to what I know and I had used MS Office since its inception. Since dumping it in its entirety and have never needed to use it again even when receiving files from other people.

Its a real shame most of the MS Trolls that destroy many threads, spout useless information about software & hardware without any real evidence of using a MAC properly.

Even those that have partially used Mac's without making the break from the PC & MS software will struggle to see the benefits most of us realise when we have cut the MS strings completely!

I have found even a Mac experimenter (who intends falling back on a PC because they are too lazy to find (often better s/w alternatives)) are rarely qualified to preach either!!

Basically come back and talk to me when you have lived with a total Mac environment for a few months without having to use a PC for anything (like I have) and then I'll listen to your gripes (if you have any) but if your a pretender (that has even used a Mac) but still goes back to their PC to use software you know, then you haven't spent any time really trying to substitute the Mac, you probably have not spent any time tweaking the interface properly to serve you needs, so you have no business trying to tell me squat :-)

P.S.
I started out in the tech business before the first PC came out with just floppy drives. Yes, I used pre PC systems with 7" floppy disks. I've seen it all come and some of it go, so No you cannot preach anything to me about how great PC's are or how great Microsoft is PERIOD!!

[JackieTreehorn]

Wow...Paul Thurrot and Mike Galos sure made a lot of accounts here :D

[scottness]

Wish I could afford one right now... I'll get a refurb in the spring.

[MorphingDragon]

Hahaha, nice one kb27973, so funny, its like all the Microsoft Boys that troll threads in this forum, they are so blinkered to Microsoft software, they think we all really need / want it.

Thats why I'm running Mac OSX exclusively...

You might wanna rethink that.

[gnasher729]

Considering over 90% of the world purchase and choose Windows over Macs on a daily basis and world's biggest corporations run their company on PCs, I'd say it appears than an overwhelmingly large number of people in the world choose a proper hardware over an obsolete overpriced piece of a computer even if it has a quality IPS screen because you know people do stuff with their computer and want to be fast rather staring at a screen

Are you talking about people who use their computers for nothing but running benchmarks, and then they print out the benchmark results because they don't want to look at the screen?

Yes, that is a category of customers that is badly neglected by Apple.

[superlatic]

the imac 27 has a 27" inch screen IPS dont you no what is IPS?? its quality , its professional hardware and its a piece of design and a great os. not cheap crap like pcs.

Like the same cheap crap inside the new white macbooks? That can be found inside a £400 PC Laptop, only apple charge more or less double the price?

Fair enough, you look at the latest Dell all in one and you have a 9600GT with 512mb, but compare the specs of a Mac Pro tower and a PC tower with the same prices and I would bet a large amount of money you would find the PC has more powerful/up to date hardware.

And before anyone replies I am not a PC fanboy, my home machine is an iMac 7.1, just over two years old, and I haven't had a single problem with it, and since yesterday am the proud owner of a lenovo thinkpad T400 with Windows 7 Professional.

[gnasher729]

PC design doesn't exist ? :rolleyes: PCs come in hundreds if not thousands of different configuration and case designs that come in new colors and varieties practically every month. The four Apple computers have had the same, boring, stale look for three years. Where's that much talked about innovation ? :confused:

We were not talking about different shapes and colours, we were talking about design. And no, PC design doesn't exist.

For a real shock to the system, the PC lovers who build computers for $1K should visit www.apple.com/ukstore. There you can buy a Mulberry carrying bag for your MacBook for just £750. Now that's a christmas present for the wife or girlfriend; if you buy her one of those she might not complain about the ugly computer that you built yourself.

(PS. It doesn't have to be a computer carrying bag; any Mulberry bag will go down very well. )

[Emiku]

Just got a mail from apple, my iMac i7 just shipped today.

- Emiku

[jimmyjoemccrow]

Why would you want to run Office 2007?

Name the Mac alternative. Apple doesn't have anything as good as Office. Even the Mac version of Office isn't as good as the Windows version. Are you going to complain about the ribbon like 99% of the uneducated users who gave up when they couldn't find the menus? The menus are still there, just replaced by a ribbon which takes maybe a couple of hours to get used to by any but the most obtuse user.

Your Oracle example is dreadful and hopelessly biased.

Hahaha, nice one kb27973, so funny, its like all the Microsoft Boys that troll threads in this forum, they are so blinkered to Microsoft software, they think we all really need / want it.

When I first migrated to MAC's, I used MS Office for Mac for a year because I blindly thought I should stick to what I know and I had used MS Office since its inception. Since dumping it in its entirety and have never needed to use it again even when receiving files from other people.

Its a real shame most of the MS Trolls that destroy many threads, spout useless information about software & hardware without any real evidence of using a MAC properly.

Even those that have partially used Mac's without making the break from the PC & MS software will struggle to see the benefits most of us realise when we have cut the MS strings completely!

I have found even a Mac experimenter (who intends falling back on a PC because they are too lazy to find (often better s/w alternatives)) are rarely qualified to preach either!!

Basically come back and talk to me when you have lived with a total Mac environment for a few months without having to use a PC for anything (like I have) and then I'll listen to your gripes (if you have any) but if your a pretender (that has even used a Mac) but still goes back to their PC to use software you know, then you haven't spent any time really trying to substitute the Mac, you probably have not spent any time tweaking the interface properly to serve you needs, so you have no business trying to tell me squat :-)

P.S.
I started out in the tech business before the first PC came out with just floppy drives. Yes, I used pre PC systems with 7" floppy disks. I've seen it all come and some of it go, so No you cannot preach anything to me about how great PC's are or how great Microsoft is PERIOD!!

Most of the Apple trolls (and they are trolls even if the forum is about Apple) post without having properly tried Windows 7 or Office 2007 and just reproduce the nonsense they see on blogs or forums. The people you are calling MS trolls more often than not are simply using what they find to be the best tool for the job. And whats more, many people would find it impossible to go entirely PC free because the Mac environment doesn't provide the solution that fits their needs. Its simply lying to say that a Mac environment can reproduce anything in the Windows environment. For a start there are games, Apple doesn't produce a gaming machine that doesn't cost twice as much as can be found in the PC environment, and if you do buy that machine you will need to reboot into Windows anyway because OSX has very few games for it.

Apple makes nods to the business environment but they can't really compete with Microsoft's offerings in terms of features and contol. Then there are all the custom developed bits of software that companies would have to migrate if they switched to Macs. The cost of developing it new, from scratch does not compare favourably to the cost of fixing it if Windows upgrades break features.

There are huge gaps in Apple's hardware range. They don't produce any netbook (sneared at by Apple's snobbish fans but adored by the rest of the world) and they don't produce a tower that isn't a workstation.

All these factors force people to use products by Apple's competitors. It has nothing to do with being a fanboy. The fanboy sticks religiously to one company's products and is blind to their faults, even if they drive him nuts every day. It is simpler for the fanboy to continue to use the products he has poured so much adoration on in the past than for him to admit that there might be a better option from a competitor. Yes MS have their fanboys too, but most of the people I see you calling trolls are actually people who use Macs but are frustrated by Apple's failings.

[Isarius]

Just to point out that nobody was asked in this thread to comment on the superiority of one OS/Computer over another. The one and only question was and still is: are the quadcore iMacs shipping. Anything other than an answer to that question IS IRRELEVANT!

(Quite apart from the fact that I permit nobody to tell me, without previously having been asked by me, what computer I should buy or not - it's simply none of their business)

Anyway, have any i7s been shipped to Germany yet? (Oh, don't jump to the wrong conclusion: I am not German, I just happen to live here)

[jb1280]

There are huge gaps in Apple's hardware range. They don't produce any netbook (sneared at by Apple's snobbish fans but adored by the rest of the world) and they don't produce a tower that isn't a workstation.

All these factors force people to use products by Apple's competitors. It has nothing to do with being a fanboy. The fanboy sticks religiously to one company's products and is blind to their faults, even if they drive him nuts every day. It is simpler for the fanboy to continue to use the products he has poured so much adoration on in the past than for him to admit that there might be a better option from a competitor. Yes MS have their fanboys too, but most of the people I see you calling trolls are actually people who use Macs but are frustrated by Apple's failings.

The same group of people who complain about a lack of netbook or tower would probably be the same people who complain about what an Apple netbook or tower doesn't have compared to competition.

Individuals claim that is bad that Apple does not enter the market in these two areas. They claim that this forces people to Apple's competition. In a strict sense, Apple isn't in that part of the competition.

Aside from not making the sort of machine you, or someone might personally want, nobody has actually made a cogent argument why Apple should make a netbook or tower.

So if you, or anyone, had 20 minutes in Cupertino, how would you make a case as to why Apple should enter those two areas?

For the record, I really don't care what people choose. I also don't really care what a company does or doesn't do. Personally, I would never ever buy a netbook because the keyboards/displays I find useless. I would also never buy a tower since I never expand parts besides memory/drives.

[Shivetya]

Why would you want to run Office 2007?

because I have a real job?

[musukosan]

Just noticed that my i7 has been shipped through FedEx from Shanghai. Due to arrive on the 16th (US). Yippee!

[mrballer]

After getting home last night and reading pages of the related (and not-so-related) postings, it was like Christmas to wake up to the news that my i7 has also shipped. From China to Canada.

The wait begins.

[pavger]

My 27" Core i7 has finally shipped! It's supposed to come on the 16th.

[AIDO15]

Just got a message that my i7 has shipped, should be here by the 17th at the latest.

[WATCHDOG]

+++

Anti-:apple:ism has become worse than Global Warming Denial! ;)

Yes, fer surely, Constructive Critiques are necessary, However:

The constant-contentiousness
by the usual anti-:apple: troll suspects
should be disallowed by the powers-that-be <aka The Moderator>
on the grounds that:
after we've all Heard the same WHINE 10,000X already,
it only serves to become counter-productive to the various Questions
of those who either own - or will be purchasing -> a Mac!

An anti-:apple: WHINE Limit should be set.. !

Repeating the same WHINE 3X within any given 1 week period,
should earn said perp a one-way ticket to their Recycle Bin..!

Hear! Hear! Yahhhhhhhh! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

+++

[jimmyjoemccrow]

The same group of people who complain about a lack of netbook or tower would probably be the same people who complain about what an Apple netbook or tower doesn't have compared to competition.

Individuals claim that is bad that Apple does not enter the market in these two areas. They claim that this forces people to Apple's competition. In a strict sense, Apple isn't in that part of the competition.

Aside from not making the sort of machine you, or someone might personally want, nobody has actually made a cogent argument why Apple should make a netbook or tower.

So if you, or anyone, had 20 minutes in Cupertino, how would you make a case as to why Apple should enter those two areas?

For the record, I really don't care what people choose. I also don't really care what a company does or doesn't do. Personally, I would never ever buy a netbook because the keyboards/displays I find useless. I would also never buy a tower since I never expand parts besides memory/drives.

The cogent arguments have been made here many times, but are ignored by those who can't think for themselves and would rather follow Apple's mantras. You are a good case in point, you are dismissing my argument as simply a representation of my own personal desires, when in fact it represents the desires of a large percentage of the computer using population. However Apple stick two fingers up at that percentage because their business model relies on them being seen as elite, as something different from normal PCs. Not all of us fall for this illusion and we have a right to voice our opinions on forums such as these.

This site is often described as an Apple fansite, but not all of us think that liking Apple's products means that they are above criticism, or being a fan means you have to hate other companies products. I am posting from an old G4 iBook which was probably my favourite machine because of its size and the fact that it met my needs for websurfing and portability. However it won't run the latest Apple OS and its motherboard is failing meaning I can't carry it around any more. What am I going to replace it with? A Macbook which will cost 800pounds but is completely overkill for my needs? An iPhone which doesn't have a keyboard or screen big enough for anything but the most basic of browsing? I couldn't make this post from an iPhone without spending forever tapping away.

Do a search on these forums for cogent arguments but I bet you will dismiss them as "beneath Apple".

[Groovsonic]

Like the same cheap crap inside the new white macbooks? That can be found inside a £400 PC Laptop, only apple charge more or less double the price?

Fair enough, you look at the latest Dell all in one and you have a 9600GT with 512mb, but compare the specs of a Mac Pro tower and a PC tower with the same prices and I would bet a large amount of money you would find the PC has more powerful/up to date hardware.

And before anyone replies I am not a PC fanboy, my home machine is an iMac 7.1, just over two years old, and I haven't had a single problem with it, and since yesterday am the proud owner of a lenovo thinkpad T400 with Windows 7 Professional.

I know this is only circumstantial evidence, and I know that this is inviting people to say "yeah, well I can build a 16 core 4ghz beast with 56gb of ram and 6 video cards for $137"... but we recently purchased a new machine for the video guy in my office. We spec'd out a mac pro, and a dell tower. After comparing the two with as many things being equal as possible, the mac pro actually came out cheaper :eek:. So we ordered the mac. Truth is, even if the dell would have been cheaper, we would have ordered the mac!

I know no one will believe me, but it's true. This may not be true in all cases, but with the specs we were looking for, it was actually cheaper to buy the mac.

[Groovsonic]

Oh, and just to be on topic, when they ordered the video guy his new mac pro, they also ordered me a 27 i5 iMac to run Logic. I am so excited... but I haven't heard when its coming in yet.

[Isarius]

The cogent arguments have been made here many times, but are ignored by those who can't think for themselves and would rather follow Apple's mantras. Blah Blah Blah ...
......

Do a search on these forums for cogent arguments but I bet you will dismiss them as "beneath Apple".

Can you read?

Nobody was asked to comment in this thread on the superiority of one OS/Computer over another. The one and only question was and still is: are the quadcore iMacs shipping. Anything other than an answer to that question IS IRRELEVANT!

Gedditt?????

[kb27973]

because I have a real job?

If your job is running Office 2007 all I can say is... I'm sorry.

[kb27973]

Your Oracle example is dreadful and hopelessly biased.


Why is it dreadfull? I have actually administered an Enterprise database on Windows and I can tell you it can't handle it. Period. Not unless you are willing to accept a lot of downtime. Patch, reboot, patch, reboot, patch, reboot. Don't even get me started on the stinking virus scanner....

[twoodcc]

so has anyone got theirs yet?

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by jimmyjoemccrow
Your Oracle example is dreadful and hopelessly biased.

Why is it dreadfull? I have actually administered an Enterprise database on Windows and I can tell you it can't handle it. Period. Not unless you are willing to accept a lot of downtime. Patch, reboot, patch, reboot, patch, reboot. Don't even get me started on the stinking virus scanner....

You run antivirus on a database machine?

I had a similar production system that was outside the firewall, and it hit 356 days of uptime when the server was swapped out for a more powerful one.

No antivirus, no patches to Windows - it just ran and ran even though it was directly connected to the internet.

The secret - follow "best practices" and only open exactly the minimum set of ports to the outside. Handle management with an out-of-band NIC (we use a separate VPN to access the system - only the application is visible from the outside).

Since the majority of security problems today involve getting the user to click "OK" on a webpage or email message - a server without a surfer or email is simply safe from the majority of attack vectors.

UNIX/Apple/Windows - this is just common sense.

[flynz4]

Just got a mail from apple, my iMac i7 just shipped today.

- Emiku
I just ordered my i7 last night with the 2TB drive. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to ship a new order... and I will try to remember to post info here so others will know. This is a Christmas present... so I am not in a hurry.

I am extremely disappointed that an SSD option was not available. Ideally, the iMac would have been available with a small (~200-300GB) SSD for the OS and apps... along with a larger hard drive (~1 - 2 TB) for data and media. I am still a bit amazed (shocked) that I am buying a computer with a traditional HDD. I just seems so backwards after having 3 laptops and one desktop that used SSDs. I am willing to bet that within a few months, I will open the iMac, replace the drive with an SSD for the OS/apps, and move my media to a firewire drive, or the home server. This is it... I will never again consider another computer without an SSD going forward.

/Jim

[sbarton]

Man some of you guys make me embarrassed to use a mac.

Apple hardware is certainly no better than PC hardware. My 1k PC kicks the pants off a 3k mac pro, both performance and hardware quality wise (of course I built it myself).

OSX is no better than Windows 7, in general, and in many ways is quite a bit behind.


Really? I'd like to see the PC that you engineered with off the shelf parts that is better "quality wise" than a MacPro. Even the best custom PC's I've seen falls short in a direct comparison. Have you ever even seen the inside of a MacPro?

OSX is about 30% "better" than Windows 7 from an user interface standpoint. The control panel is still a rats nest of disparate controls and unorganized chaos and the rest of the system isn't much better.

I have been evaluating Win7 side by side OSX for quite some time now. There are still many bugs in Windows7 despite what the fanboys may have told you. You need a considerable amount of time and add-on products to bring a fresh Windows 7 install anywhere near the quality and completeness of an out-of-the box OSX install. And even then, you may experience problems with things like sleep/hibernation, graphics glitches, half-functioning sound hardware, etc.

No, Windows 7 remains the "family truckster" of operating systems, which is ok if thats all you need, but don't go claiming quality where it doesn't exist.

[AidenShaw]

Really? I'd like to see the PC that you engineered with off the shelf parts that is better "quality wise" than a MacPro. Even the best custom PC's I've seen falls short in a direct comparison.

Have you ever even seen the inside of a MacPro?

How can you "see" quality?

You can see fashion, design, style - certainly.

But "quality"? I think that's something you can recognize without removing the covers to the machine. "Quality" is reliability, value, usefulness.

Not fashion.

[MorphingDragon]

How can you "see" quality?

You can see fashion, design, style - certainly.

But "quality"? I think that's something you can recognize without removing the covers to the machine. "Quality" is reliability, value, usefulness.

Not fashion.

This may sound odd but I can tell the quality of a computer from its smell. I spent so much time building all sorts of computers a sniff can tell me all sorts of things. Like a bad power supply will always have a particular smell, it smells like a combination between brown smell and aluminium cans.

Sniiiiiiiiiiiif, Oui he he he.

[sbarton]

How can you "see" quality?

You can see fashion, design, style - certainly.

But "quality"? I think that's something you can recognize without removing the covers to the machine. "Quality" is reliability, value, usefulness.

Not fashion.

Of course you can see quality. If you know what to look for, it's easy to spot engineering and design quality. Tolerances, fit, finish. You can also hear and feel quailty - vibrations, noise (hard drives, fans).

[PeterQVenkman]

Name the Mac alternative. Apple doesn't have anything as good as Office. Even the Mac version of Office isn't as good as the Windows version.


Use Neo Office. It's free and cross platform. I've used that for the past two years. My boss didn't even know I hadn't installed office!

[PeterQVenkman]

TennisAndMusic is a massive troll.

In every new Apple thread, he posts about how expensive Apple is and how great windows is, simply to get a rise out of people. And they take the bait every time.

Will someone please just ban his troll ass and be done with it?

[MorphingDragon]

Of course you can see quality. If you know what to look for, it's easy to spot engineering and design quality.

That doesn't mean anything, Industrial equipment looks like crap but its the best thing you can get.

[AidenShaw]

Of course you can see quality. If you know what to look for, it's easy to spot engineering and design quality.

But substandard capacitors will still pop, wireless connections will be flaky, and poorly designed logic boards will die - even if the frosting on the cake is impeccable.

[healeydave]

Most of the Apple trolls (and they are trolls even if the forum is about Apple)


Not true, I have no interest going to a PC / Windows forum and trolling about how good MAC's or OSX is, I have better things to do with my time, if they want to stay ignorant, that's their problem, I just object to them coming here spouting completely off-topic stuff to batter Apple for the sake of it.


Its simply lying to say that a Mac environment can reproduce anything in the Windows environment.

I'm not lying about anything, I simply haven't found anything I can't do on the Mac that I used to do when I was a PC user!
I'm sure this is not the case for all users who might use some obscure software, but I'm not trying to convince the world otherwise. The fact is the majority of the productivity that is done on computers today is DTP, Doc's, Spreadsheets, Presentation, Email and Browsing all of which can be provided with a Mac quite proficiently.


For a start there are games, Apple doesn't produce a gaming machine that doesn't cost twice as much as can be found in the PC environment, and if you do buy that machine you will need to reboot into Windows anyway because OSX has very few games for it.

Well it was some time ago when I owned a machine that I used to play lots of games on (when in fact it was supposed to be a computer), it was called a Amiga. I kinda grew up and whilst I appreciate a lot of people do like to spend time playing games, I seldom do anymore. I also think there are perfectly good dedicated pieces of hardware in the Xbox, PS3 & Wii for that type of thing as opposed to using your computer!


Apple makes nods to the business environment but they can't really compete with Microsoft's offerings in terms of features and contol.

I run a business and I have retired my Windows based Domain Controller, SQL and Exchange Servers. I now run OSX Server providing email, web based services etc. I honestly find my administration easier and we get far less spam and email viruses through to the client end since switching. The licensing is a fraction of the price for a solution that has improved, you can't ask for more than that as far as I'm concerned!


There are huge gaps in Apple's hardware range. They don't produce any netbook (sneared at by Apple's snobbish fans but adored by the rest of the world) and they don't produce a tower that isn't a workstation.

Again I think your entitled to your opinion, but equally as am I and I simply don't agree. I think Apples hardware range is uncluttered and provides for most peoples needs. The Pro kit provides for the high power users of this world like video editing etc. The Laptops are superb. The iMacs provide for most peoples needs and provide a beautiful uncluttered desktop wire free unlike the mess I used to have with my PC's.

Netbooks are a complete waste of time, whats the point of throwing together a low powered machine with a 5-7" screen aimed at surfing the Internet. I'd rather use my Macbook Air for that. Granted it costs a lot more but I'm more about the quality of experience than low cost (frustrating) computing.

I had a guy come round my house last week complaining about his 2 year old Sony Vaio because you'd click something and wait for ages wondering if you'd clicked something (even though you really knew you had). I remember those days, the infamous "Windows slowdown for no reason other than you've had the computer in use for several months". No matter how hard you tried to clean it up, you'd wonder if you should clear it down and re-install to get the speed back. :-)

Those that gripe about Mac hardware no competing at the PC level do have a point, but they forget the Mac doesn't really need all the horsepower thrown at it like the PC does. My iMac 24" is over 2 years old with loads of stuff installed and still performs well without having to run lots of maintenance because we are free from that awful invention "The Registry" thank god!

Oh and I only returned to this thread to say I had my shipment email today, but I had to address some of the points made to my previous post, even though I wanted to just stay on topic this time :-(

[CQd44]

Really? I'd like to see the PC that you engineered with off the shelf parts that is better "quality wise" than a MacPro. Even the best custom PC's I've seen falls short in a direct comparison. Have you ever even seen the inside of a MacPro?

OSX is about 30% "better" than Windows 7 from an user interface standpoint. The control panel is still a rats nest of disparate controls and unorganized chaos and the rest of the system isn't much better.

I have been evaluating Win7 side by side OSX for quite some time now. There are still many bugs in Windows7 despite what the fanboys may have told you. You need a considerable amount of time and add-on products to bring a fresh Windows 7 install anywhere near the quality and completeness of an out-of-the box OSX install. And even then, you may experience problems with things like sleep/hibernation, graphics glitches, half-functioning sound hardware, etc.

No, Windows 7 remains the "family truckster" of operating systems, which is ok if thats all you need, but don't go claiming quality where it doesn't exist.

What're some bugs you've been having with windows 7?

[kb27973]

You run antivirus on a database machine?

Yep they did. And this is a huge oil company. They learned the hard way when the new antivirus dat file had some 'issues' with the large database files. Quite effectively brought down 6 database servers. No database, no refining, no $$$. Ouch. I'm just a DBA not a Director level guy so I have no say whether or not they decide to run antivirus software on their servers or not.

No antivirus, no patches to Windows - it just ran and ran even though it was directly connected to the internet.

I find it hard to believe this statement. No antivirus, No Windows patches for a year on an internet facing Windows server? No company in their right mind would even think about doing that. From an article I read there are over 1 MILLION Windows viruses and you are exposed to ALL of them.

UNIX/Apple/Windows - this is just common sense.

There is a reason hackers attack Windows. Because it is easy compared to hacking UNIX. Sure it can and has been done to UNIX. UNIX worms, buffer overflows... but the odds are in my favor with UNIX. Hey to each his own. I've already said more than I wanted. For what it's worth to the OP I'm waiting for my i7 iMac as well.

Sincerely,
Bill Gates.

[hakr]

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to how the I5's and I7's will perform on the typical benchmarks, compared to a 3.06 iMac?

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw

No antivirus, no patches to Windows - it just ran and ran even though it was directly connected to the internet.

I find it hard to believe this statement. No antivirus, No Windows patches for a year on an internet facing Windows server?

No company in their right mind would even think about doing that. From an article I read there are over 1 MILLION Windows viruses and you are exposed to ALL of them.

The server had two application ports exposed to the network - there was no other way into the machine. Total, absolute firewall except for those two ports.

How do viruses, worms and other malware enter a system?


A user lets them in by clicking OK in a web or email dialog
They attack an exposed port looking for vulnerabilities in the port listener


No users, no exposed ports. The risk is almost zero. A bug in Windows file sharing - irrelevant, the code for file sharing isn't even installed because it's not needed (see "server roles" (http://www.tech-faq.com/understanding-server-roles.shtml)). I'm not "exposed to viruses" that only affect code that isn't even installed or running on my server.

Note that a second NIC on a secure network is needed to manage the machine. That's key to running safely without AV or regular updates - if you manage the system via the public NIC you'd better be wearing protection.

[sbarton]

But substandard capacitors will still pop, wireless connections will be flaky, and poorly designed logic boards will die - even if the frosting on the cake is impeccable.

Ok, so when you go buy your next computer, take an ohm meter and check and measure the capacitors. Or you could just skip that part and look for the obvious queues. Couple that with some comon senese and you might be able to make a good decision.

[sbarton]

That doesn't mean anything, Industrial equipment looks like crap but its the best thing you can get.

Really? Industrial equipment is the best you can get for home computers? Really?

I never said "looks"...I said "tolerances", fit/finish, etc...

[Buzz Bumble]

Considering over 90% of the world purchase and choose Windows over Macs on a daily basis and world's biggest corporations run their company on PCs, I'd say it appears than an overwhelmingly large number of people in the world choose a proper hardware over an obsolete overpriced piece of a computer even if it has a quality IPS screen because you know people do stuff with their computer and want to be fast rather staring at a screen

Yet again the troll proves his utter ignorance.

"90%" of people do not "choose" anything of the kind.

Most people are given a Windoze box by their company IT department which is too stupid, lazy, or scared to have Macs or know how to use them. Many other people stick to what they know and/or buy garbage because it looks cheaper on the price sticker (but isn't in the long run).

Those with more than one braincell buy Macs (and in business save money by getting rid of half their IT department). :)

[Compufix]

I'm worried about the GPU in this thing for 3D modeling/animation and video editing. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Anyone use a similar config for 3D?

No offense, but if you are doing that seriously....you should be buying a Mac Pro...right equipment for the job. If you choose to use an iMac, you know what you are getting yourself into....

For me, I would rather pay 6,000 for a serious video editing station...and I can attest that we are replacing Dell towers that we have in our editing environment too....the price is comparable to a monster tower from Dell. The Dells run Adobe CS3 with Premiere...the Macs run that...and Final Cut Pro 8-)....

-Mike

[cmob]

The 27" Quad Core 2.66GHZ i5 I ordered from ClubMac October 25 will ship in 5-7 days (Nov. 16-18), according to the phone conversation i just had with the nice lady in customer service.

[jimmyjoemccrow]

Can you read?

Nobody was asked to comment in this thread on the superiority of one OS/Computer over another. The one and only question was and still is: are the quadcore iMacs shipping. Anything other than an answer to that question IS IRRELEVANT!

Gedditt?????

Can you read? I quoted someone who was commenting on that very subject. Regardless of whether it was intended or not, he voiced his opinion here, I don't think answering it in another thread would be such a great idea.

[jimmyjoemccrow]

Not true, I have no interest going to a PC / Windows forum and trolling about how good MAC's or OSX is, I have better things to do with my time, if they want to stay ignorant, that's their problem, I just object to them coming here spouting completely off-topic stuff to batter Apple for the sake of it.
Missed the point. Most of the people you are calling trolls are Mac users too. They simply don't put their faith in Apple alone and won't allow fanboys to get too drunk on the Kool Aid.


Well it was some time ago when I owned a machine that I used to play lots of games on (when in fact it was supposed to be a computer), it was called a Amiga. I kinda grew up and whilst I appreciate a lot of people do like to spend time playing games, I seldom do anymore. I also think there are perfectly good dedicated pieces of hardware in the Xbox, PS3 & Wii for that type of thing as opposed to using your computer!
Those consoles provide a different (and in my opinion inferior) experience to PC gaming. There are certain types of game where keyboard and mouse are just much better control systems. PC games offer more customisation. PC games have better graphics and sound.



I run a business and I have retired my Windows based Domain Controller, SQL and Exchange Servers. I now run OSX Server providing email, web based services etc. I honestly find my administration easier and we get far less spam and email viruses through to the client end since switching. The licensing is a fraction of the price for a solution that has improved, you can't ask for more than that as far as I'm concerned!
Good for you but I would guess that you are a small business. For much larger businesses Apple doesn't really scale so well. Also the amount of spam is down to your filtering software which tends to be third party, not MS.



Again I think your entitled to your opinion, but equally as am I and I simply don't agree. I think Apples hardware range is uncluttered and provides for most peoples needs. The Pro kit provides for the high power users of this world like video editing etc. The Laptops are superb. The iMacs provide for most peoples needs and provide a beautiful uncluttered desktop wire free unlike the mess I used to have with my PC's.
I think if Apple's computers met most peoples' needs they would have more than 5% marketshare worldwide.


Netbooks are a complete waste of time, whats the point of throwing together a low powered machine with a 5-7" screen aimed at surfing the Internet. I'd rather use my Macbook Air for that. Granted it costs a lot more but I'm more about the quality of experience than low cost (frustrating) computing.
They are low powered because they are intended mainly just for web surfing. Whats the point of having a Core 2 Duo processor and 4GB of RAM if all you want to do is surf the web and do some word processing? The screens are 10-12" by the way, thats ok for the tasks I described above for short periods of time, which is exactly how a netbook will be used. Low cost does not mean low quality, that is a falsehood clung to by so many people who like to believe that since they paid more they must be getting something better. That isn't always the case since there are always those who will charge more for a name.


I had a guy come round my house last week complaining about his 2 year old Sony Vaio because you'd click something and wait for ages wondering if you'd clicked something (even though you really knew you had). I remember those days, the infamous "Windows slowdown for no reason other than you've had the computer in use for several months". No matter how hard you tried to clean it up, you'd wonder if you should clear it down and re-install to get the speed back. :-)
I've heard these reports too, but never have I seen them myself. When I do see PCs that slow down I see machines that haven't got up to date antivirus and usually the user has been to some less than trustworthy websites. Or they are the machine of some user that has installed as many stupid screensavers, fonts, smilies, printer software, mobile phone software, filesharing software as they could find.


Those that gripe about Mac hardware no competing at the PC level do have a point, but they forget the Mac doesn't really need all the horsepower thrown at it like the PC does. My iMac 24" is over 2 years old with loads of stuff installed and still performs well without having to run lots of maintenance because we are free from that awful invention "The Registry" thank god!

I built a PC for my father's friends and in 5 years I had to help them with it twice. Once was a virus because they had failed to renew a subscription. Fixed in a couple of hours. The second was when the motherboard failed and I got them a new one. Its still running, hasn't slowed down, despite them living with the registy. The initial cost of building that machine was £300 including my time and the cost of repairs over that time was about £100. Would anyone like to make a stab at estimating what the total cost of ownership is?

[MorphingDragon]

Really? Industrial equipment is the best you can get for home computers? Really?

I never said "looks"...I said "tolerances", fit/finish, etc...

Oh so were limiting our argument for it to stay true.

[PeterQVenkman]

No offense, but if you are doing that seriously....you should be buying a Mac Pro...right equipment for the job. If you choose to use an iMac, you know what you are getting yourself into....

Yeah, I'm not too impressed with the core i7 cinebench numbers on the imac (over 15000) compared to a previous gen mac Pro 8 core 2.8 (over 18000 and more ram slots).

If budget is your concern, at this point you can pick up a prev gen mac pro used for $2000. Of course, you don't get a display, but I want rendering power. If I didn't already have two monitors the iMac would be really, really appealing.


For me, I would rather pay 6,000 for a serious video editing station...and I can attest that we are replacing Dell towers that we have in our editing environment too....the price is comparable to a monster tower from Dell. The Dells run Adobe CS3 with Premiere...the Macs run that...and Final Cut Pro 8-)....

Do the video apps really take advantage of all the processors? I don't edit as much video in FCP anymore. I use more After Effects for bigger shots, but at least that app uses my CPU power.

[RBGarnett]

to butt in on your constant warring between windows and macs but who actually cares which is better when it really all boils down to preference?

and on a lighter note i ordered my 27 inch i7 quad-core on the 27th and got a shipping date of the 14th about an hour or so ago. so i should have it by sometime this coming week?


ohh and im in the uk