obama's DNC keynote [Archive]

Bobcat37

Jul 27, 2004, 10:50 PM

2008? Nah, that will probably be Hillary Clinton as long as Kerry loses this year.

Anyway, uh, I didn't see it... but I also don't care... so yeah.

Is it bad that whenever I hear or see the word Obama, I think Osama? I need to stop doing that I guess.

Durandal7

Jul 27, 2004, 10:52 PM

2008? Nah, that will probably be Hillary Clinton as long as Kerry loses this year.
.

Very possible, but she will still need a running mate.

pseudobrit

Jul 27, 2004, 11:02 PM

LeeTom

Jul 27, 2004, 11:12 PM

Here's the Obama speech, courtesy of Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/mmedia/politics/072704-9v.htm

Lee Tom

Bobcat37

Jul 27, 2004, 11:23 PM

You're Rush Limbaugh, aren't you?

*snickers*

That was funny... I'm whatever you want me to be you sexy commy ;)

Anyway, I listened to half of his speech speech, the first part was very good... but then I stopped watching when he started pumping up Kerry. Hey really had me baffled as to why he is a Democrat and why in the world he supports Kerry, since he said some rather sensible things. (Like we don't want to government to solve all of our problems??? That doesn't sound like a good Democrat to me).

Anyway, Obama impressed me... I'll give him that.

blackfox

Jul 27, 2004, 11:41 PM

Thanks Lee, I thought it was great, so much so that it has made me late to an engagement ...but it was worth it . More later. excellent.

themadchemist

Jul 27, 2004, 11:42 PM

*snickers*

That was funny... I'm whatever you want me to be you sexy commy ;)

Anyway, I listened to half of his speech speech, the first part was very good... but then I stopped watching when he started pumping up Kerry. Hey really had me baffled as to why he is a Democrat and why in the world he supports Kerry, since he said some rather sensible things. (Like we don't want to government to solve all of our problems??? That doesn't sound like a good Democrat to me).

Anyway, Obama impressed me... I'll give him that.

I guess you missed the part where he said that government CAN help to create opportunities.

Anyway, Obama is the future of this party. He will run for president in the not-so-distant future, and I have a feeling that he will, or at least he can, win.

zimv20

Jul 27, 2004, 11:46 PM

(Like we don't want to government to solve all of our problems??? That doesn't sound like a good Democrat to me).

yes, that's a popular notion. but it's not true.

he's a democrat because he believes this country is for everyone. that should say a lot of what he thinks of republicans.

Bobcat37

Jul 27, 2004, 11:59 PM

he's a democrat because he believes this country is for everyone. that should say a lot of what he thinks of republicans.

It should? :confused:

zimv20

Jul 28, 2004, 12:07 AM

It should? :confused:
yes

letterbox

Jul 28, 2004, 12:25 AM

Very possible, but she will still need a running mate.

This would be a very interesting ticket. It would be a great accomplishment to have both the first woman president and person of color in office seperately, but at the same time it would be even more historic.

I am all for this however...what are the chances that this would happen? If Republicans are calling Kerry/Edwards "liberals" with a negative connotation, are they really going to be ready for a woman and a black man to be heading the country? This based on the Washington Post article today on the stance of all 4 candidiates (from both parties) and based on voting records found that:

1. Bush is average conservative
2. Cheney "...is more conservative than 90%" of his colleagues
3. Kerry is average on the whole
4. Edwards is more towards conservative democrat

LeeTom

Jul 28, 2004, 12:38 AM

zimv20

Jul 28, 2004, 12:42 AM

i have to say, i really don't see hillary running for president. the idea has always struck me as a GOP wet dream.

Durandal7

Jul 28, 2004, 12:48 AM

Let's say Kerry wins this term and the next... Do you really think John Edwards will step down and let Hillary run? No way, it will be Edwards. This was Hillary's year, and she missed it.
Entertain this thought for a second:

Edwards/Obama 2012

Lee Tom

Sure, if Kerry does win then Edwards would get the 2012 nomination and I agree, an Edwards/Obama ticket would be very likely.

If Kerry does not win then Edwards will have the same stigma of defeat that plauged Libermann and he is not seeking re-election to the Senate. That means that Hillary Clinton would be the logical nominee and Obama a possible running mate. That also means that the Republicans would probably counter with a Giuliani/Powell ticket.

If Bush gets re-elected my money is on a Clinton/Obama and Giuliani/Powell race in 2008.

letterbox

Jul 28, 2004, 12:50 AM

Edwards/Obama sounds more realistic.

I don't know much about speculating Hilary for Prez or not, but one of my first thoughts is PR Nightmare, with a captial N. Too much of a certain kind of baggage (sp?) with a woman who certainly appears to have her act together, which is a shame.

Time will tell, hopefully the present can be taken care of.

letterbox

Jul 28, 2004, 12:52 AM

Sure, if Kerry does win then Edwards would get the 2012 nomination and I agree, an Edwards/Obama ticket would be very likely.

If Kerry does not win then Edwards will have the same stigma of defeat that plauged Libermann and he is not seeking re-election to the Senate. That means that Hillary Clinton would be the logical nominee and Obama a possible running mate. That also means that the Republicans would probably counter with a Giuliani/Powell ticket.

If Bush gets re-elected my money is on a Clinton/Obama and Giuliani/Powell race in 2008.

I thought Powell had declined and has been quoted so on multiple occassions, is there something I don't know?

Durandal7

Jul 28, 2004, 12:55 AM

i have to say, i really don't see hillary running for president. the idea has always struck me as a GOP wet dream.

Maybe, but it seems to be a popular notion among this years delegates:

Among the more than 3,000 delegates interviewed, or roughly 70 percent of the 4,300-plus who will attend the four-day event beginning Monday in Boston, most were reticent to offer a favorite, optimistic about Kerry's chances on Nov. 2. Some 36 percent said "none" when asked whom they would like to see as the party's candidate in 2008.

Clinton was favored by 26 percent overall and Edwards 17 percent. Among women, Clinton led Edwards 34 percent to 16 percent. The breakdown among men was Clinton 22 percent, Edwards 21 percent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8999-2004Jul23.html

Then again, if the delegates had their way this year it would probably be Howard Dean accepting the nomination on Thursday.

zimv20

Jul 28, 2004, 01:06 AM

Then again, if the delegates had their way this year it would probably be Howard Dean accepting the nomination on Thursday.
i would love to see the results of this kind of poll done 4 years ago. i wonder if kerry was mentioned at all.

and barama wasn't even in the national spotlight until about 4 months ago. a lot can change in four years.

Bobcat37

Jul 28, 2004, 01:09 AM

i have to say, i really don't see hillary running for president. the idea has always struck me as a GOP wet dream.

Huh? Don't you mean a nightmare?

Anyway, I'd rather see an Edwards/Obama ticket in 2008 or whenever (depends who wins this year), that way I would know if they won our country wouldn't be completely doomed. ;)

Also, a Giuliani/Powell Republican ticket would be pretty good in my opinion... it would definitely be more of a centrist ticket (as opposed to far right), but that would probably give it an even better chance of winning. Those are 2 very popular Republicans, even among the Dems. Of course, I must admit Powell has been hurt a little bit by the Iraq thing, but only time will tell how that will play out in the long run.

Durandal7

Jul 28, 2004, 01:13 AM

i would love to see the results of this kind of poll done 4 years ago. i wonder if kerry was mentioned at all.

and barama wasn't even in the national spotlight until about 4 months ago. a lot can change in four years.

The closest I could find was a CNN poll from 2002 of all registered Democrats.

When registered Democrats were asked whom they would support in a field that included the New York senator and former first lady, 30 percent picked Clinton, compared with 13 percent each for Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts.

No other potential candidate broke out of single digits, while 14 percent said they were unsure.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/21/hillary.poll/

zimv20

Jul 28, 2004, 01:26 AM

The closest I could find was a CNN poll from 2002 of all registered Democrats.

heh heh. hillary wins again! but it's kerry about to get the nomination :-)

Durandal7

Jul 28, 2004, 01:30 AM

heh heh. hillary wins again! but it's kerry about to get the nomination :-)

What I found most interesting about that poll is that it was taken long before the primaries started yet Kerry came in the top 3. Since Hillary decided not to run in the primaries that leaves Kerry and Libermann as the only remaining primary candidates on the poll. It seems that the odds may have been stacked in Kerry's favor leading up to the primaries all along.

pseudobrit

Jul 28, 2004, 01:33 AM

It seems that the odds may have been stacked in Kerry's favor leading up to the primaries all along.

He was my favorite way before Dean and Clark hit the radar. There's something to being early; it's what worked for Bush against McCain.

themadchemist

Jul 28, 2004, 01:38 AM

Edwards/Obama 2012

Lee Tom

If today were june 2012, that would be the obvious choice. We'll see in 8 years, though.

IJ Reilly

Jul 28, 2004, 03:36 AM

The Obama speech was pretty remarkable, especially considering the guy is only 42. This morning I was asking myself "who?" Now I know. A political star is born.

Lyle

Jul 28, 2004, 10:21 AM

anyone catch it? damn!It was a great speech. I suspect that when the convention's over, people will look back on his and Clinton's speeches as the highlights (although I'm looking forward to seeing Edwards' speech too).

Lyle

Jul 28, 2004, 10:34 AM

heh heh. hillary wins again! but it's kerry about to get the nomination :-)Sure; it's not about who registered Democrats would like to see in the White House (such as Hillary Clinton or Howard Dean) but who they think could actually win in a general election. Mrs. Clinton is obviously an extremely polarizing figure in American politics (well, if you can imagine things getting more polarized than they currently are) and I suspect that the Democrats realize that she'd have a tough time winning over a majority of the voters.

I think the Edwards/Obama ticket is an interesting suggestion, though. It will be interesting to see how the political landscape changes before the 2008 elections.

Sayhey

Jul 28, 2004, 11:01 AM

I got to watch the speech on CSPAN last night and I was very impressed. Obama used his own history very well, but I was particularly impressed with his disparagement of the simplistic division of our nation by spin masters and pundits. Pure Poetry.

It will be interesting to watch him over the next few years, as it looks to be a very likely win for him in the Illinois Senate race. He will be a worthy replacement for Paul Wellstone as the nation's most progressive Senator.

My dream is that Kerry wins big and sweeps in Democrats to majorities in the House and Senate. In so doing, perhaps Obama wouldn't have to go into the Senate as the country's only black Senator? I know, it is unlikely that the good folks of Georgia and maybe Louisiana would go along with my dreams, but these kind of changes are closer than most of us think.

IJ Reilly

Jul 28, 2004, 11:22 AM

FWIW, Obama is mixed race. So maybe that's an entirely new caucus?

Sayhey

Jul 28, 2004, 11:44 AM

FWIW, Obama is mixed race. So maybe that's an entirely new caucus?

I know, IJ. I've been following Obama for some time now, and I've been aware of his heritage even before his marvelous speech in which he described it so well. He still would be the only African American in the Senate come January if there are no surprises. I'm hoping for those surprises, along with new Democratic majorities in both the House and Senate.

blackfox

Jul 28, 2004, 05:31 PM

I was genuinely surprised to find out that Obama was 42, I thought he was only 30-something...he looks pretty fresh-faced. Then again, much surprised me about the man after listening to his speech.

I agree with many that he might be a good contender for the Pres. Ticket in the future, but perhaps not till 2012. He has yet to win his first Senate seat and his relative lack of experience could be a talking point for the GOP if he was to run on a 2008 ticket.

As for the Guiliani/Powell suggestion, does no-one think McCain has another shot at the title? I know, for me he is still one of the most respected politicos out there...still Party nominations only rarely deal with actual merit...

IJ Reilly

Jul 28, 2004, 07:57 PM

I know, IJ. I've been following Obama for some time now, and I've been aware of his heritage even before his marvelous speech in which he described it so well. He still would be the only African American in the Senate come January if there are no surprises. I'm hoping for those surprises, along with new Democratic majorities in both the House and Senate.

In fact he's no more black than he's white. I think this racial identity thing is a peculiar sort of game. IIRC, in his speech he never mentioned the race of his mother. Even stranger yet to my ears, I've already heard him compared to Tiger Wood -- which tells me that people are a little to comfortable with categories.

blackfox

Jul 28, 2004, 08:10 PM

In fact he's no more black than he's white. I think this racial identity thing is a peculiar sort of game. IIRC, in his speech he never mentioned the race of his mother. Even stranger yet to my ears, I've already heard him compared to Tiger Wood -- which tells me that people are a little to comfortable with categories.

With regards to his mother, he did mention that she was from Kansas (circa 1950-60) which implies something...(although perhaps he was talking about his grandmother...not entirely sure).

Still, assuming I was correct, I don't feel he was playing a race card, only one about the power of America to enrich the lives of immigrants the world over...so mention of his father/grandfather and their race was relevant to the topic(s) of his speech...

I do agree that people are over apt to categorize, but in this case, he seems to be someone who can transcend these boundaries by merit and accomplishment...

themadchemist

Jul 28, 2004, 09:05 PM

In fact he's no more black than he's white. I think this racial identity thing is a peculiar sort of game. IIRC, in his speech he never mentioned the race of his mother. Even stranger yet to my ears, I've already heard him compared to Tiger Wood -- which tells me that people are a little to comfortable with categories.

First of all, he clearly stated that his father was from Africa and his mother was a white American.

However, what matters is how he's perceived. He would have, growing up, been always perceived as black and treated as black, because he looks black. That's what counts.

Moreover, sociological studies show that for racial minorities, especially blacks, race tends to be the key aspect of self-identification. Therefore, one could imagine that if you were half black, then that would still be your key means of self-identification. Why? Because white, in our society, is the default. It's the normal. It's the neutral. It doesn't have a particular formative experience or defining identity associated with it, whereas being black does. Being black, then, has a more profound effect on a person, than being white.

IJ Reilly

Jul 28, 2004, 09:31 PM

I heard him mention his African father and his mother from Kansas (but not her race). I could have missed something, but that's not my point.

I'm not sure I heard Obama playing any race cards. I'm really just remarking about the ease we seem to feel in categorizing the significance his rapid ascendency in racial terms. If a 42 year old gets elected to the US Senate, this alone will be an event.

It's as if the guy needs to fit into a concept, like a Hollywood movie. The Tiger Wood comparison really made me gasp. (David Brooks on PBS uttered the remark.)

blackfox

Jul 28, 2004, 09:46 PM

well IJ, it is hard to have the simplistic, shallow punditry that passes for political discourse on the vast majority of US media outlets, without the use of convenient "concepts" or "categories" or "pigeon-holing" regardless of fit...

God forbid they ever had to deal with nuance and depth of an individual...it would ruin their "soundbites" conveniently timed to fit between Buick commercials...

IJ Reilly

Jul 29, 2004, 12:15 AM

I expect more from PBS, and I usually get it. I often find myself disagreeing with Brooks' commentaries, but rarely because they're shallow. Banalities aren't his style, which only made the Tiger Woods remark more shocking. I only hope he regretted saying it the moment if flew out of his mouth.

pseudobrit

Jul 29, 2004, 12:20 AM

Buick commercials...

Enough with the Tiger Woods references already!

IJ Reilly

Jul 29, 2004, 12:26 AM

Enough with the Tiger Woods references already!

You certainly know how to drive home a point. I'd feel trapped, if I wasn't so green. But you know me, always interested in the fair way.

pseudobrit

Jul 29, 2004, 12:28 AM

You certainly know how to drive home a point. I'd feel trapped, if I wasn't so green. But you know me, always interested in the fair way.

Fore puns in one stroke!

zimv20

Jul 29, 2004, 12:30 AM

You certainly know how to drive home a point. I'd feel trapped, if I wasn't so green. But you know me, always interested in the fair way.
those don't sound original to me. got any links?

:-)

IJ Reilly

Jul 29, 2004, 12:33 AM

those don't sound original to me. got any links?

No, but I've got a pound of bacon in the fridge.

IJ Reilly

Jul 29, 2004, 12:35 AM

Fore puns in one stroke!

Are you calling me a putz?

zimv20

Jul 29, 2004, 12:35 AM

No, but I've got a pound of bacon in the fridge.
if there's a golf pun in there, i missed it. not sure if you caught mine...

IJ Reilly

Jul 29, 2004, 12:39 AM

if there's a golf pun in there, i missed it. not sure if you caught mine...

Just trying a little free association punning. Think about it. Better yet, don't. You're probably going to wake up in the middle of the night, with a desire to hurt me.