Secret 4G iPod Features?

[MacRumors]

This week's Time Gadget of the Week (http://www.time.com/time/gadget/20040728/) is the 4th Generation iPod that was recently introduced by Apple.

It describes the new features including battery life improvements and the new click wheel... but offers a surprising hint at more to come:

But you should know that internally the new iPod is a ground-up reconstruction, and its really compelling applications — the ones that very well might get the goat of anyone unable or unwilling to upgrade — are still secret. All that Apple is saying is that there's more to this than what's being publicized

[FriarCrazy]

As a recent mac convert, I must ask if stuff like this happens a lot in the Mac world? I love my 4g iPod, but now I'm anxious to find out what it can really do!

[yossele]

Probably for 3rd party accessories, like the recording secret in the 3G iPod

[SwitchingSoon]

That recording capability was a secret? ...what a ...

[obeygiant]

it doubles as a ray-gun.

[supbra]

Just purchased the new 4g Ipod. Love it, and is my first one. Apple, tell me about what it can really do?

I wonder if I'll be able to connect to Airport Express

[AhmedFaisal]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)

[adamfilip]

apple invented a anti-gravity feature and tracking device so that you can place your beer/coffee on the back of the ipod and it will follow you around hovering up to 6feet off the ground..


really quite amazing! :D

[adamfilip]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)

Hey bud.. um i have a 1st gen 5giger myself

you just have to hold down the Play button for a few seconds and it turns off.

[dizastor]

Secret Features eh?
iPod apps? iPod SDK?
I might have to buy one of these once they sort out the whole cosmetic defect issue.

[adamfilip]

Secret Features eh?
iPod apps? iPod SDK?
I might have to buy one of these once they sort out the whole cosmetic defect issue.

they have been making ipods .. for years.. there will always be small defects blemishes.. on a few units..

you will be waiting forever

[theranch]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)
You don't need a mac/pc to reset the ipod.

[xtekdiver]

Can we say wireless? Remote control? Airport Express? Yup! ;)

[Photorun]

Gee, well this isn't cryptic! :rolleyes:

[crazzyeddie]

Maybe Apple will make a wireless bridge for it, similar to the iTrip, that would allow the iPod to access a WiFi network from the dock port and make it compatible with Airport Express.

[mickhyperion]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)

To reset the iPod, hold the menu button and the play button simultaneously for a couple of seconds.

To turn it off, hold play for a couple of seconds.

[Gimzotoy]

Just purchased the new 4g Ipod. Love it, and is my first one. Apple, tell me about what it can really do?

I wonder if I'll be able to connect to Airport Express

Connect it to the Airport Express using the USB port. You'll notice that the drive mounts (the "Do Not Disconnect" warning pops up). I don't know if these two are related, but I definately thought something was up when I saw that. If the iPod was merely charging it would display the "OK to Disconnect" message like it does when I plug it into my computer's USB port...

[Photorun]

apple invented a anti-gravity feature and tracking device so that you can place your beer/coffee on the back of the ipod and it will follow you around hovering up to 6feet off the ground..


really quite amazing! :D

6 feet? Why would I want to jump to get my beer or coffee? Especially the former which after a few jumping gets increasingly difficult! I hope it has a setting for 3 to 4 feet.

[xtekdiver]

Hey bud.. um i have a 1st gen 5giger myself

you just have to hold down the Play button for a few seconds and it turns off.

That is not exactly true; while it appears to be off it is not; the iPod is still using power and if you don't use it for awhile it will run out of power. Granted no one ever leaves their iPod for that long without using it...right? :rolleyes:

Update: according to Apple's web site the 4G iPod will last one month in standby. How anyone could last a month without using thier iPod is beyond my comprehension, but that is the stat.

[flappo]

i reckon the ipod will become the remote control that's so far missing in airport express

[adamfilip]

6 feet? Why would I want to jump to get my beer or coffee? Especially the former which after a few jumping gets increasingly difficult! I hope it has a setting for 3 to 4 feet.

no worries you can adjust it too you liking..

some people might need it 6 feet up.. or you know just too tease those who are verticley disabled

[adamfilip]

That is not exactly true; while it appears to be off it is not; the iPod is still using power and if you don't use it for awhile it will run out of power. Granted no one ever leaves their iPod for that long without using it...right? :rolleyes:

well i dont see how this would be any different then having an on/off toggle switch

[JoePike]

Why would they not publicize something like this, whatever these new features are?

-Joe

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Hey, if Apple wants to fill me in on the whiz-bang secret features, then i'll get yet another ipod.. until then, there's nothing to see here.

[Sabon]

"I'm still waiting for the day when I can delete iPod's tracks and playlists using the device itself, because once I've returned to my computer, I can no longer remember which songs I don't ever want to hear again."

This is REALLY easy. When I find a song on my iPod I don't like I rate it with 1 (one) star. I never use 1 star for anything else. So the next time I sync my iPod to my Mac I can sort by rating and find all the 1 stars and delete them.

[adamfilip]

"I'm still waiting for the day when I can delete iPod's tracks and playlists using the device itself, because once I've returned to my computer, I can no longer remember which songs I don't ever want to hear again."

This is REALLY easy. When I find a song on my iPod I don't like I rate it with 1 (one) star. I never use 1 star for anything else. So the next time I sync my iPod to my Mac I can sort by rating and find all the 1 stars and delete them.

well thats a good idea.. but not really a solution. more of a patch/work around.. I also like the idea of being able to delete the file.. much more practical

[Grimace]

Probably because the don't want to create a global ipod-famine. I'm sure production is gaining momentum - when Apple has the stock ready to ship - they will announce that the iPod can transmit via WIRELESS!! :p

[BornAgainMac]

It was a surprise Birthday gift for Real so they can sell their own music to play on the iPod. Now Apple is reconsidering holding back on this feature.

[the_mole1314]

Why would they not publicize something like this, whatever these new features are?

-Joe


They arn't done and they are subject to change and termination, that's my guess.

My guess for features: frikin' laser beam, the real Ginger, and turning lead into gold.

[Blue Velvet]

Why would they not publicize something like this, whatever these new features are?

-Joe

Yes.

Am just, almost, but not quite ready to buy one.

Is this just hype? :confused:

[xtekdiver]

well i dont see how this would be any different then having an on/off toggle switch

Well, I thought the original poster's complaint was exactly this issue; that is, the battery is always draining no matter what you do. He wanted to be able to turn it off completly so it won't drain power, which you can not do right now.

[mpopkin]

the chipset behind the mini can run video, photos and a whole lot more, but it it tied by what apple allows for, so i am guessing it has something to do with photos/video and music, maybe wifi :)


As a recent mac convert, I must ask if stuff like this happens a lot in the Mac world? I love my 4g iPod, but now I'm anxious to find out what it can really do!

[orion123]

I'm sure whatever it is, RealNetworks will reverse engineer it and tell us all about it :rolleyes:

Seriously though, I doubt it's any sort of wireless or else cracking it open would show you the chips for bluetooth or 802.11. Probably some nifty software enhancements for 3-rd party devices (ie: the recorder and digital photo storage thingy)

[adamfilip]

eventually someoene with a 4g ipod will dismantel it and post pictures.. maybe then we will figure it out

[fabsgwu]

Maybe a third party "video out" through the dock connector, that would be cool :) I'm also curious how it might evolve with the airport express....

[daddy-mojo]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)

and you can reset it by holding the play/menu buttons for 5 seconds I believe....anyone else verify that, don't have my 1st g ipod on me.

besides, if you just hold down the play button it will turn it off, then hit the lock switch and you should be good. Besides if the power is completely off, then you might lose time & date info.


:rolleyes:

[zyuzin4]

i was just going to post that ipodlounge should crack one of these open and see if there is anything interesting inside

[agentmouthwash]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)



I can reset my first Gen Ipod. You just have to hold down the menu and play buttons for a few seconds. I think the special feature is going to be the albility to download more games.

What else can it be?

[JDOG_]

I have noticed that it's harder to eject than my 3G was. I frequently get pop-ups when trying to disconnect it saying "Another program is using (iPod) right now..." And I have nothing else running besides Safari....hmmmm...maybe it's just me :rolleyes:

[the_mole1314]

eventually someoene with a 4g ipod will dismantel it and post pictures.. maybe then we will figure it out

www.ipoding.com (http://www.ipoding.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album11&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php)

[mudflapper]

Please let those secret features include a a 5-band EQ, or at the very least, a variable preamp to get rid of that ANNOYING distortion.

[fabsgwu]

I can reset my first Gen Ipod. You just have to hold down the menu and play buttons for a few seconds. I think the special feature is going to be the albility to download more games.

What else can it be?

Hopefully more exciting games, the very retro ones currently offered are showing thier age.

[the_mole1314]

Hopefully more exciting games, the very retro ones currently offered are showing thier age.

I can see it now, Doom3 on an iPod. Heheheh, shows you PC users. ;)

[kntgsp]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)

The iPod does have an On/Off switch, you hold down the play button for 2 seconds and it turns off.

They are the easy to reset, you just hold down the play and menu button for 10 seconds and it resets. You don't have to plug it into a computer to reset it. You can even run Hard drive diagnostics on an iPod by itself without connecting to a computer. You just hold play menu after resetting it, and you can do a hard drive scan.

This is much safer than an on/off switch. Ever tried just switching the power off on a computer?! It's the same as yanking out the powercord. Not good for the harddrive or any other components, since the Hard Drive needs a second to spin down. You risk damaging a device like that by just yanking the power. That's why iPod has less problems than the iRiver and Jukebox, believe me I've owned both.

You've had iPods since the first generation and have never heard of these features?

[wPod]

come on built in wi-fi. . . they just havent finished the software!!

[swissmann]

I just ordered a 4G 20 GB iPod. (My first!) I always knew I would get one as soon as it was under $100 and I got it for $70 because a buddy was buying an iBook through education store and didn't want the iPod. I'm so anxious to get my hands on it (been organizing my music all week) and am especially anxious to find out what these secrets are.

[Stage]

There is only one reason not no tell people about the new feataures: Becasue they don't work yet.

Besides, I wouldn't count too much on un named, non-existant features. After all, Apple hasn't even fixed the bugs in the 3Gs yet.

--Oh, but they have promised to update the firmware on *my* iPod so it won't work with Real! How nice of Apple! F.U. Apple, I don't wan't that kind of "upgrade!" How about a firmware upgrade that benefits the *customer* instead of just Apple!

[afields]

Line in for recording? :o

[JoePike]

www.ipoding.com (http://www.ipoding.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album11&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php)

Wow, that was fast. Well, that shoots the whole wireless Airport/Bluetooth theory in the butt.

-Joe

[mainstreetmark]

Wow, that was fast. Well, that shoots the whole wireless Airport/Bluetooth theory in the butt.

-Joe

Good!

I was tired of hearing about it. A continuous broadcast of music over a wifi connection wouldn't do any favors for iPod's battery. It sure would be neat, though, huh?

[autmusic]

main new feature is not wireless, but a wired transfer of tracks/albums/artists between pods.
apple to release accessory to facilitate this within 2 months.

also, custom menus to be utilised by software upgrades via usb/firewire. inc 3rd party ipod custom software (travel guides, games etc.)

thats the word.

[lukasbarton]

a pain in the ace work around but some food (http://features.engadget.com/entry/6336778455600767/) for thought

[LaMerVipere]

Eh, I'm still going to keep my 3G iPod, no new iPod for me! Unless it's a mini, if I could actually find one in stock somewhere.

The 5G should be the real head turner, just like the transition from 2G to 3G! I'm waiting for that. :)

[Frump]

It is no secret. It will be able to play WMA and real player files, but only when your I-pod is connected to a Linux box.

[davecuse]

Oh, but they have promised to update the firmware on *my* iPod so it won't work with Real! How nice of Apple! F.U. Apple, I don't wan't that kind of "upgrade!" How about a firmware upgrade that benefits the *customer* instead of just Apple!

Have you ever used RealPlayer? The main draw to the iPod is that it's easy to use, if you start having third party plugins, and backwards engineered hacks there is no way that Apple can ensure you will have a good user experience.

[crackrock]

I'd like the ability to input information into it, where you select letters one by one to store phone numbers and stuff.

This sort of ability would allow you to password protect your iPod, so nobody can touch it but you.

And I still want a dock for my car that's the shape of a tape deck.

-crackrock

[silvergunuk]

Would be nice to have an ipod with 2 click wheels. that way Djs can use it for mixing and scratchin during gigs. They should do a deal with the ministry of sound.

[deepkid]

--Oh, but they have promised to update the firmware on *my* iPod so it won't work with Real! How nice of Apple! F.U. Apple, I don't wan't that kind of "upgrade!" How about a firmware upgrade that benefits the *customer* instead of just Apple!

I'm not sure whether you're geniunely upset or are trolling, but why in the hell would anyone get upset about Apple blocking out someone like Real?

iTMS already has arguably the best catalog and ease-of-use of the competitors. Why in the world would people care to jump through the dumbest hoops to get content from Real, of all companies? Besides the legal argument of hijacking content, I would be scared to go near "Harmony" based on experiences with the crap they already offer.

This is akin to whining when you already have something like nice steak or halibut before you and manage to get upset with the restaurant because they don't offer White Castle sliders on the menu.

It makes little sense to care about that kind of choice.

[SilentPanda]

Maybe the super secret thing has something to do with the iMac G5 and releaseing the 4G iPod functionality would clue us in to iMac G5 functionality... just pure speculation from the reliable voices inside my head. :)

[utkucan]

anyone remember home on ipod?

has to be... :)

[kirk26]

come on built in wi-fi. . . they just havent finished the software!!


Does the main purpose of buying it....plays music! What a concept!!!!

[theFly]

Oh, perhaps the new feature is an easy way to program your iPod to act like a universal remote control for all of your devices. As detailed here (http://www.engadget.com/entry/2511741306339375/). You know, without that pesky PocketPC as the middleman.

theFly
www.flyonthemac.com (http://www.flyonthemac.com/)
Rumors You Can Bet On

[Soire]

Two questions:

Because of the click wheel can you still reset the iPod by holding down play and menu? i thought the wheel only allowed one of the four to be depressed at a time.

Second, has anybody started making new cases for the 4th gens yet? I had an iSkin and loved it, but they haven't got a 4th gen yet that I've seen...

[boma]

You know the new blue highlight and text color? It's a color screen!

[ifjake]

that's right. home on iPod, impending 10.3.5 update... could be.

[deepkid]

You know the new blue highlight and text color? It's a color screen!

Not likely.. past gen pods have been photographed the same way.. the screens look blue in pics. Would be interesting if it was, though...

[jakemikey]

the chipset behind the mini can run video, photos and a whole lot more, but it it tied by what apple allows for, so i am guessing it has something to do with photos/video and music, maybe wifi :)


yeah I think there was a rumor/news item a while back that the maker of the chipset had been working toward on-the-fly MPEG-4 encoding/decoding for the iPod. Then think of the new QT/MPEG-4 codec announced at WWDC. Sounds like the iPod could become the set-top box (with AirPort Express).

[Oirectine]

"I'm still waiting for the day when I can delete iPod's tracks and playlists using the device itself, because once I've returned to my computer, I can no longer remember which songs I don't ever want to hear again."

This is REALLY easy. When I find a song on my iPod I don't like I rate it with 1 (one) star. I never use 1 star for anything else. So the next time I sync my iPod to my Mac I can sort by rating and find all the 1 stars and delete them.

You could also make an On-The-Go playlist by holding down the "select" button, and when you sync it'll add the playlist to iTunes.

[micvog]

the chipset behind the mini can run video, photos and a whole lot more, but it it tied by what apple allows for, so i am guessing it has something to do with photos/video and music, maybe wifi :)

I agree... I am guessing you will be able to sync iPhoto and iMovie with the 4G iPod and Apple will release a cable to go from the dock connector to video/audio outs to hook up to a TV/display. There were rumors of this being included on the 4G before release...

Home on the iPod would be nice to, but I don't see why, from a purely hardware perspective, this would be 4G-only. Apple's whims are another issue.

[stagmeister]

anyone remember home on ipod?

has to be... :)

If they put home on ipod that would be FANTASTIC. I have a laptop PC, but I'm getting a new one next year, and if I could do home on iPod, it would make me seriously consider an iBook... I'm sure there are a lot of other people out there who would too.

[Swinny]

My guess is that this might have something to do with 60GB iPods...perhaps a delay in production or something, where Apple would have wanted to announce all the new features if they could have released all 4G models at once, but instead are holding back until the 60Gig ones are ready...release at Paris Expo or something with a big fanfare about "the biggest iPod yet, with even more features...oh and by the way, download this and you can use the features on any other 4G iPod as well"

I think talk of photo/video etc is a little unlikely - these things still have low-res, monochrome screens afterall - and even if only used as a device for streaming to a TV screen, preview on such a screen is so far behind whats been offered for years that it seems very unlikley coming from Apple at this stage...I suppose Apple would obviously come up with some clever preview on screen option, but it would seem to limit the functionality of such a feature a great deal if you have no way of properly previewing whatever media you have stored on the iPod without access to a TV screen.

...I'm with the wired/wireless connection to Airport for music streaming/remote control.

[applekid]

Great... Now convince me to let go of my 3G...

I did read in another article the underlying hardware is very different from the 3G iPods, so these 4G iPods are a very special breed indeed. Damn...

:o

[charlesc]

Just got my new 4g 40gig straight from Shanghi today.

Only couple grumblings. The Firewire cord is two feet shorter than the one I got with my 3g 30gig. No slip/belt case, and no wired remote anymore. At least they left the dock as part of the 40gig... The clickwheel is worth the difference as far as I'm concerned, though.

I for one cannot wait for home on iPod...

[Oirectine]

Not likely.. past gen pods have been photographed the same way.. the screens look blue in pics. Would be interesting if it was, though...

Actually I have a G4 iPod and the backlight does have somewhat of a blue tinge. It's not just in photographs. However, the color screen comment was a joke (I think).

[g4cubed]

There is only one reason not no tell people about the new feataures: Becasue they don't work yet.

Besides, I wouldn't count too much on un named, non-existant features. After all, Apple hasn't even fixed the bugs in the 3Gs yet.

--Oh, but they have promised to update the firmware on *my* iPod so it won't work with Real! How nice of Apple! F.U. Apple, I don't wan't that kind of "upgrade!" How about a firmware upgrade that benefits the *customer* instead of just Apple!

To this guy and all wondering why the tease.

Can you say Apple Expo 2004. ;)

And as for updated firmware just don't upgrade. And if you wants songs from real then download them. Change them to MP3s and loaded them on *your* ipod, that or use another player. You have choices so chose which makes you happy. Unfortunately, Apple can't make everyone happy. :rolleyes:

[jesuscandle]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)


I think it's worth noting that the ipod doesn't have an on/off switch ON PURPOSE. Yes, you can press specific keys to power the device down, but...why?

It took me a few months of using it to really get used to this idea of "not turning it off," but once I did, it made perfect sense. Assume the device is off, when you want to listen to music, press any button. Voila. It's on. When you're done listening, press play/pause and the music stops playing. Now, here's the tricky part, don't do anything else. It turns off by itself in a minute or two. There's no complicated on/off toggle switch or extraneous buttons. You really won't lose power if the display is powered for a minute or two when you're done using it.

[kenaustus]

There are several things that come to mind;

1. It will be a feature (or features) that wow us - to some degree at least.

2. I will need 10.4.5 (or Tiger) for it to work.

3. It will possibly be integrated only with the Mac, leaving PC users to look at Apple when buying a new computer. Pity. ;)

4. It will require changes to iTunes and the iPod firmware, cutting Real off at the knees. :D

5. I'll be more than happy that I just upgraded my old 5GB to a new 40GB.

[bluefido]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)
I was also an owner of the first iPod. To reset, hold down the the play button and the menu button for 5 seconds. To turn off, hold down the play button. Now, I am the proud owner of a 4G iPod!!

[babazoid]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)

Dude, you're such a knob.

HOLD DOWN PLAY

[TheSkipper]

I am new to the iPod world but was wondering what this iPod at Home feature is that everyone is talking about. It would be nice if Apple released some accessory that you could just attach to the iPod to make it connect to the Airport Express. I can't wait to hear what new, innovative idea Apple has up its sleeve.

[Windowlicker]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)

if it crashes, press the menu button for say 5 seconds --> reboot.

edit: haha seems like people took Ahmed's post personally ;) ...well, at least we made sure he got answers to his problems. peace.

[JoePike]

I think after seeing the 4G iPod teardown pics we'll agree that there isn't a wifi card hiding in there, so unless they release some kind of an adapter that hooks into the dock connector along with a firmware update to drive it, it's probably not going to be the wireless remote for airtunes we've all be fantasizing about.

Home-on-Pod sounds great, I guess, and I could see something like that going hand in hand with the 10.3.5 release. In fact, they seeded that to developers, didn't they? Somebody mess around with it and see if you can find any nuggets buried in there, huh?

I'm not as optimistic as some on the idea of a video-out on the iPod. Again, it would take a special adapter that would hook into the dock connector and run to a TV, and as people have mentioned that would also work on the 3G iPods since they have the dock connector. Defeats the purpose of this whole rumor, really.

Other speculations.....I'm not a GarageBand user, but I know Jobs is just infatuated with it. Sounds like it's pretty cool. Is there anything they could do to make the iPod a more integral part of that experience? Like I said I've never used it, so this is just pure guesswork on my part.

-Joe

[molcas&e'sdad]

I'm with some of the others posting in this thread who would like WiFi capabilities with the iPod so that I could use the iPod as a wireless remote control to play music via Airport Express and my home stereo.

I picture myself sitting on my patio, listening to Jimmy Buffett from my iPod over my outdoor speakers, Corona in hand ...

Life is good :cool:

[ifjake]

alright there probably have been enough posts about how to reset/"turnoff" your iPod. maybe there's some process to booting up an iPod from complete power off that would take time thus get annoying having to wait for it. something like that. (though i am curious how the process will work with the click wheel. any mini owners know?)

[FriarCrazy]

The problem with internal WiFi in an iPod is that it would destroy the battery life. As any laptop owner (Mac or PC) knows, having your wireless turned on makes your battery drain significantly faster. Wireless in an iPod is unfortunatly not very practical at this time. (It would be hella cool though... Airport Express with my iPod. *Drool*)

*EDIT* Also... The reason why you cannot turn off your iPod is that if it is completly powered down, powering back on would take forever. It would have to reload the entire OS, song lists, etc... The iPod was designed to be as snappy as possible, during its conception Jobs was always nagging the engineers to make the menus quick and responisve. The iPod just was not created to have down time.

[snowdog]

I'm not sure whether you're geniunely upset or are trolling, but why in the hell would anyone get upset about Apple blocking out someone like Real?

iTMS already has arguably the best catalog and ease-of-use of the competitors. Why in the world would people care to jump through the dumbest hoops to get content from Real, of all companies? Besides the legal argument of hijacking content, I would be scared to go near "Harmony" based on experiences with the crap they already offer.

This is akin to whining when you already have something like nice steak or halibut before you and manage to get upset with the restaurant because they don't offer White Castle sliders on the menu.

It makes little sense to care about that kind of choice.

Maybe we're getting OT here, but one thing that is pretty neat at the Real camp, is songs with higher bitrate.
iTMS is using AAC 128kbps, Real is using AAC 192kbps.
Doesn't matter anyway, I live in Sweden and can't get none...

Sorry for getting OT.

[netytan]

My vote, rather my wish, let programmers get there hands on the IPod API. We can already develope software for mobile phones, why not the IPod :o. And that would be so much fun!

Mark.

[PDubNYC]

main new feature is not wireless, but a wired transfer of tracks/albums/artists between pods.
apple to release accessory to facilitate this within 2 months.
.


yeah, that'll happen.

Keep dreaming

[requies]

alright there probably have been enough posts about how to reset/"turnoff" your iPod. maybe there's some process to booting up an iPod from complete power off that would take time thus get annoying having to wait for it. something like that. (though i am curious how the process will work with the click wheel. any mini owners know?)


menu and select buttons.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61705

[MongoTheGeek]

Perhaps it has a virus to install OSX over top of wintel boxes... :)

Text to speech.

Home on iPod

[tjwett]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)

you're kidding right? hold down the PLAY button and the machine turns off. click the HOLD switch to make sure it won't turn back on in your pocket. lastly, RTFM.

[trox_355]

I am new to the iPod world but was wondering what this iPod at Home feature is that everyone is talking about. It would be nice if Apple released some accessory that you could just attach to the iPod to make it connect to the Airport Express. I can't wait to hear what new, innovative idea Apple has up its sleeve.

Think about your desktop and all of your documents--the things in your Home folder (presuming you're using a Mac). Home on iPod would let you copy all of these files and settings to your iPod so you would be able to access these on any Mac you use.

[Surreal]

eventually someoene with a 4g ipod will dismantel it and post pictures.. maybe then we will figure it out

you mean, eventually someone will lose all of their senses?

perhaps :cool:

[()verBored]

What are you guys talking about...the Ipod powers down quite frequently. I don't know what the time out is, but I believe it is 48 hours? If you don't use your device for that period...it shuts all the way down (ALL THE WAY). Not STANDBY. This is automatic, and is done to save battery life when you don't use it for extended periods. Hasn't anyone but me seen the little reboot Apple Icon pop up on the screen when you fire up your Ipod after a short hiatus of a few days? No, my Ipod didn't crash or something - it simply turned itself all the way off!

As for the super secret new capabilities of the 4G - I'm putting money on an adapter that will enable it to be a wi-fi remote control for the Airport Express. This just seems so logical. The Ipod will be a mini music server - wireless indeed! This doesn't have to mean the Ipod has a wireless communications chip inside (there's no room for it!), just that it could work with new technologies such as wi-fi.

And no, I doubt Apple will let Ipod owners swap songs with each other (via an Ipod to Ipod link cable - as cool as that would be), just won't happen with all the DRM issues!

I might put money on it being a photo storage device with video out - once again, even if it doesn't have a video decoder chip inside doesn't mean it can't communicate with one.

[aswitcher]

Think about your desktop and all of your documents--the things in your Home folder (presuming you're using a Mac). Home on iPod would let you copy all of these files and settings to your iPod so you would be able to access these on any Mac you use.

Home is definetly coming but it might be Tiger before we see it.

The lack of a remote with the latest release does not seem to me now so much about Apple saving money but makes me suspicious that they will release a wireless remote for your ipod that goes on your keychain, and the bit that attaches to the ipod to allow this also allows the iPod to talk to the Airport Express... dreaming...

[cslewis]

-New Games
-Built in iPod to go features
-iPod to iPod music transfers ( Share songs with friends on the subway, or on a plane).
-Widgets on the iPod (stickies, etc.)

Just a thought... :p

[wPod]

home on iPod would rock as well!!! but then could i format it so i could read my documents from a windows machine (i hate school and work where there are only windows machines)

[deepkid]

Actually I have a G4 iPod and the backlight does have somewhat of a blue tinge. It's not just in photographs. However, the color screen comment was a joke (I think).

I remember hearing the same thing when i got my 1st gen and my 3rd gen..that some people's screens in fact did look slightly blue. I think it depends on the type of lighting around the pod. Both my backlights are white as ice. A slight tint of blue would be cool, but oh well.

[swingerofbirch]

Maybe we're getting OT here, but one thing that is pretty neat at the Real camp, is songs with higher bitrate.
iTMS is using AAC 128kbps, Real is using AAC 192kbps.
Doesn't matter anyway, I live in Sweden and can't get none...

Sorry for getting OT.

I lived in Sweden in third grade ('91) and went to MalmaSkolan in Uppsala.

Anyhow for the juicy info, my friend from Woodside, California just e-mailed me a leak of an Apple press release (it is apparently a memo from Steve Jobs to someone named Bob):

CUPERTINO, California—August 5, 2004—On July 19, Apple® introduced the new iPod®, the fourth generation of the world’s number one portable digital music player, featuring Apple’s patent pending Click Wheel, which combines the smooth and continuous scrolling of a touch-sensitive wheel with five push buttons for superior one handed navigation. The new iPod also features up to 12 hours battery life and Shuffle Songs, a new command in the main menu which gives users instant access to one of the most exciting new ways to listen to their music library.

Today Apple is proud to announce that there is more than music inside the new generation of iPods. Today Apple announces the "Yes! I've Got a Golden Ticket!" promotion to coincide with Tim Burton's 2005 release of Charlie and the Chocolate factory. Five iPods will be produced that contain golden tickets inside. One has already been sold, and the other four will be released randomly as the release of Charlie and the Chocolate factory nears.

Although there is actually a gold leaf ticket inside five iPods, it is possible to determine if your iPod is a winner via a key combination which will show an icon of a golden ticket if you are a winner. Any user with a golden ticket who has physically opened the iPod will be disqualified. Instructions on a key combination to determine if you are a winner will be given out at an undisclosed time, and at undisclosed event. The golden leaf ticket, with a very unique design, will be used as proof of ownership.

The five lucky winners face a fate perhaps more magical than Charlie's; they will tour the Apple Campus with Steve Jobs himself and learn about all the new technologies Apple is hard at work creating.

---Ok Bob, that's the "vision thing" idea; make it happen! I had some ideas for some of our world famous slogans:

THE MINIMIZE BUTTON TASTES LIKE A MINIMIZE BUTTON
BUT I WANT MY FOURTH GENERATION IPOD NOW, DADDY
...ahh just get chiat on it, thx....

Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its award-winning desktop and notebook computers, OS X operating system, and iLife and professional applications. Apple is also spearheading the digital music revolution with its iPod portable music players and iTunes online music store.

[Elan0204]

This is very intriguing. I don't know why they would publicize the secret. Knowing there is a secret feature is certainly not going to get me to buy an iPod more than knowing the actual feature. Whatever this secret is, I am looking forward to finding it out, regardless.

[savar]

www.ipoding.com (http://www.ipoding.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album11&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php)

Completely useless...unless I missed something. The photos are so low res you can't make out what any of the components on the main logic board are. This is where the interesting stuff is going to be found.

Can somebody post a hi-res pic of the logic board by itself? Or even just a list of the ASICs and MCU on board?

I'm sure the person who referred to plugging the iPod into AirportExpress is on the right track. (well, one of the right tracks, if there are indeed more than one.) Apple is so into wireless streaming lately -- AE is the example -- that I'm sure iPod will interface to some product for wireless streaming of music.

Of course, I'm still holding out that Apple puts in wireless video from the iPod, but I can't imagine that AE supports it. Hooking up an iSight to an iPod would be quite cool though. I haven't seen the new screens but if they're even 4-color grayscale they would be suitable for previewing video from iSight.

[frankly]

That is not exactly true; while it appears to be off it is not; the iPod is still using power and if you don't use it for awhile it will run out of power. Granted no one ever leaves their iPod for that long without using it...right? :rolleyes:

Update: according to Apple's web site the 4G iPod will last one month in standby. How anyone could last a month without using thier iPod is beyond my comprehension, but that is the stat.

It is the same version of "being turned off" that the person he was replying to was talking about. They said that you couldn't turn off the iPod, you had to wait for it to turn off by itself. Whatever you want to call that particular state (off, standby, etc.) holding the play button down as suggested by the person responding will put it in that exact state (which the first person was referring to as off).

Later, Frank

[savar]

main new feature is not wireless, but a wired transfer of tracks/albums/artists between pods.
apple to release accessory to facilitate this within 2 months.

also, custom menus to be utilised by software upgrades via usb/firewire. inc 3rd party ipod custom software (travel guides, games etc.)

thats the word.

HAha! No, not a chance. FairPlay completely contradicts this theory. If you could copy an entire iPod directly, it would short-circuit iTunes requirement of each iPod being linked to a certain computer, so that you can't hook your friends iPod up to your computer and copy all the songs onto it. Don't forget that part of FairPlay is unlimited iPods. Apple would get a bloody nose if they abused that privelege.

[zv470]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)

have you pressed Play for 5 seconds?

[Surreal]

...if it were line in....


please be line in

o please....

[agreenster]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)

RTFM.

[Phobophobia]

well thats a good idea.. but not really a solution. more of a patch/work around.. I also like the idea of being able to delete the file.. much more practical

If you were to think about this more instead of only worrying about yourself, you would see some of the unnecessary problems that could arise with letting people delete the files on their iPod. Apple made the right choice with not letting you delete the files. There really is no reason to add that feature, especially with smart playlists and whatnot.

[instantypo]

I am guessing you will be able to sync iPhoto and iMovie with the 4G iPod and Apple will release a cable to go from the dock connector to video/audio outs to hook up to a TV/display.
When you think of it, since this would be a Mac-only feature it would make a lot of sense for Apple to not talk about this when releasing the new iPod for Mac AND Windows or else a lot of Windows users would not buy the 4G. But after a while they can "quietly" update this feature for OS X users. Another reason to buy a Mac next time. Sounds great to me.

[jbro]

I'm leaning towards a set-top box type of enhancement, which has been a rumored direction for the ipod. Wi-fi would kill the battery, but what about wireless remote for airtunes/line out? There are third-party RF and IR remotes available now.

Also, I'd like to go on record as saying *press play for five seconds!*

[mpw]

I agree with a couple of the earlier posts. If there are new features that Apple plans to release it will coincide, or be shortly after, the release of the new iMac in Paris. It'll be Mac only to begin with and draw all those windows iPod users attention to the PC they should have to get the best from their iPods. Likewise I think the iPod will be a must have accesory to the iMac.

I'd bet on Home on your iPod but not wireless unless it's BT headsets which I doubt because the standards are too new for stereo.

That said I wouldn't bet against anything from Apple as I'm expecting BIG things of the iMac G5.

[AoWolf]

When you think of it, since this would be a Mac-only feature it would make a lot of sense for Apple to not talk about this when releasing the new iPod for Mac AND Windows or else a lot of Windows users would not buy the 4G. But after a while they can "quietly" update this feature for OS X users. Another reason to buy a Mac next time. Sounds great to me.

No apple could not do that quietly, it would be a big deal. The wifi cradle on the other had seems to make sense. Remember when the AE came out and some one asked steve if there was gonna be a controller and he gave a cryptic smile...

[Photorun]

Eh, I'm still going to keep my 3G iPod, no new iPod for me! Unless it's a mini, if I could actually find one in stock somewhere.

The 5G should be the real head turner, just like the transition from 2G to 3G! I'm waiting for that. :)

The 3G was a mistake... I mean, putting those buttons on there? Was some engineer from Dell hired for that one? I'm glad they went back to the simplicity of just the wheel with buttons around that.

[b-randomly]

I doubt they'll be coming out with iPod-to-iPod transfers, not only because of the whole FairPlay thing but also out of consideration of the fact that there are different formats for iPods. I don't know if you'd be able to put a file from a Mac-format to a Windows-format. Obviously it would work vice-versa, Apple wouldn't have it any other way.

But I would like something like a few new games and maybe an accessory so you can use the iPod with AirPort Express. That would be awesome.

[Lepton]

Oboy, guesses: 1) Home on iPod ability, waiting for support in OSX. [I think one problem they need to solve is your home already has all your music files and it would be a waste to have them twice on the device.] 2) Show album cover ability. Remember, those album covers are in the MP3 file itself, so the data is already there, and the chips inside can do graphics. 3) Support for a WiFi accessory. This can make it a great remote to go with the Express. 4) Support for a video playback accessory.

[rt_brained]

apple invented a anti-gravity feature and tracking device so that you can place your beer/coffee on the back of the ipod and it will follow you around hovering up to 6feet off the ground..

Helllooooo, that was already in the 3G. I use it all the time.

[må¥å]

all i have to say is:

booooooooooorrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggg.

Now you say this new hidden feature can levitate 6 ft above the ground.

iiiiiiiiinnnnnnnntttttttteeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrreeeeessssssssstttttttiiiiiiinnnnnggg

[curmi]

Apparently if you disconnect the remote or headphones the iPod goes in to pause mode. That's something new.

My guess is that one of the secrets is something to do with using your iPod in a car. One of the pains with the <4G iPods is that you stop the car and your radio will turn off, your CD player will turn off, your tape deck will turn off, but the iPod keeps on playing. Would be great if it could somehow turn off, and turn on again when the car was started once more.

Though that might be all there is - when you turn the car off, unplug the jack. Lame.

[Porchland]

6 feet? Why would I want to jump to get my beer or coffee? Especially the former which after a few jumping gets increasingly difficult! I hope it has a setting for 3 to 4 feet.

Real is planning to reverse-engineer it to be able to do this.

[Mallardx]

Why not release an iTrip type module to give the 4G wireless abilities.

better yet, Bluetooth earbuds

[seyo]

The iPod does have an On/Off switch, you hold down the play button for 2 seconds and it turns off.

They are the easy to reset, you just hold down the play and menu button for 10 seconds and it resets. You don't have to plug it into a computer to reset it. You can even run Hard drive diagnostics on an iPod by itself without connecting to a computer. You just hold play menu after resetting it, and you can do a hard drive scan.

This is much safer than an on/off switch. Ever tried just switching the power off on a computer?! It's the same as yanking out the powercord. Not good for the harddrive or any other components, since the Hard Drive needs a second to spin down. You risk damaging a device like that by just yanking the power. That's why iPod has less problems than the iRiver and Jukebox, believe me I've owned both.

You've had iPods since the first generation and have never heard of these features?


Do any of you read the thread before posting? This question has been answered already a dozen times, and actually most intelligently by xtekdiver who pointed out that in fact holding down the play button only puts it to sleep, doesnt cut the power, so it is in fact not the same as an on / off switch.

[danr_97070]

the chipset behind the mini can run video, photos and a whole lot more, but it it tied by what apple allows for, so i am guessing it has something to do with photos/video and music, maybe wifi :)

Yeah, I think this is the arrow through the Apple. With other devices hitting the market that allow for video/music playback, I think Apple has to respond. The major difference is that Apple is so much better at video than competitors. I think Apple can provide video playback with better compression and better results.

[Dr. Dastardly]

No doubt that this will have some kind of bluetooth feature, whether it will isynce with all the apps will remain a mystery. I think that the main purpose for this would be to use as a remote for airtunes.

Is it really hard to sync up all your apps and information by plugging it into your computer? Was a wireless connection really necessary for this?

Bah what am I saying, its a completely useless feature except airtunes but it was bound to happen anyway sometime.

[iMeowbot]

Why not release an iTrip type module to give the 4G wireless abilities.

better yet, Bluetooth earbuds

TEN Technology (the same ones who make the wireless iPod remote) demonstrated exactly this (a bluetooth transmitter that plugs into the dock, plus a bluetooth receiver that work with any headphones or speakers you like) at January's CES. It hasn't shown up for ordering yet, though.

A somewhat larger solution (but available now) is Bluetake's I-Phono.

[dantec]

I didn't read the whole thread yet, but this ON/OFF issue annoyed me enough to elaborate :

If you stop listening to a song and leave the iPod idle for 2 minutes it will go into sleep...

I still have my 1G iPod so I will find out how to make it permanently turn off...

With 3G & 4G models, putting the iPod to sleep and then pushing the hold button and leaving it for more than 6 hours (I believe certainly a day) will make the device TURN OFF... The next time you push a button, the iPod displays the 'Apple' logo and reloads the system software...

iPods can be reset as metnioned by others ... by holding down Play & Menu for several seconds... Since someone said that there iPod froze when reading a song, you should reimport the song or stop downloading illegal ones because this is an iPod problem I have never seen..!

About the 'hidden' features, its probably something like the 3G iPod, when the software wasn't ready (or maybe the accessories). They were a voice recorder & memory card downloading photo attachment... To work they needed an update, which is probably what we have here...

Either...

1. Apple is not ready to release the new software update for the 4G iPods...

2. They are waiting for some more bugs to surface from the initial 4G iPods software so they can remedy them more or less all at once (many 3G problems were fixed with the update...).

3. The 3rd party accessory manufacturer is not ready to ship the 'accessory'...

-or-

4. Apple is not ready to release the 'in-house' accessory (such as an addition to Airport Express, iTunes, iPhoto...) Perhaps this new feature requires iLife 05'... who knows...

Just my 2 cents...

[johnpaul191]

Why not release an iTrip type module to give the 4G wireless abilities.

better yet, Bluetooth earbuds

both of those would KILL batteries. even cell phones or PDAs with bluetooth suck battery power, unless the bluetooth is turned off. kinda like older palms and the IR port.
i'm sure bluetooth headphones will be popular soon, but recharging the headphones themselves is another issue. if your headphones die in 2 hours it won't matter if your iPod lasts for 6.
sorry to sound negative, but i'm not sure the power problem has been worked out yet. also there is MUCH better car syncing coming than iTrip-type stuff. the new Alpine stuff is going to be great. yes requires an Alpine stereo, and a $99 device...... but iTrip type stuff broadcasts over FM and FM is crappy sound quality compared to what the iPod is capable of. i think Apple will leave that stuff to the 3rd parties.

[LimeiBook86]

I think it will be some sort of ad-on wi-fi adapter to connect with the AirPort express.

Mobile streaming music in your pocket.:D

[danr_97070]

Also... remember that the new OS will have the H.264 encoder. In several places, I've read/heard:

Not only is H.264/AVC very efficient, providing extremely high quality in smaller files, but H.264/AVC is also scalable, producing video for everything from 3G for mobile phones to High Definition (HD).

So... my guess is we're not waiting for the hardware, but the codec (software). At that time, I predict/hope for video on the iPod.

Those software developers are always slower than the hardware developers :p

[appleface]

newsweek gets the 4G story. time gets the "surprise inside" feature. apple's playing this up.

some of you said that the wifi would drain the ipod. what if the imac streamed the tunes and/or video, and the ipod was just a remote for the imac? would that be possible?

could pipeline be used to check e-mail with one click?

[Mechcozmo]

It will have motion-tracking shotguns, missiles underneath the Click-Wheel, poison darts from the Dock connector, and if you were REALLY cruel and heartless...a self-destruct capability.

Or maybe some software that scans your iPod for really, truely, horrible songs and auto-deletes them...I'd run that on my brother's computer... :cool:

On another, more-or-less sane note, my 5GB 1G iPod still works as if it were new. Aside from the beat-up appearence. And has anyone noticed that the iPod Mimi seemed like the "live-fire test" of the Click Wheel, like the 2G iPods tested the trackpad scroll wheel so the 3G iPods had all trackpads...See where I am going/rambling at?

[brooklyn]

It will be a GPS adaptor.

[virividox]

is it just me or is the ipod alredy full of features. i think the idea for a airport express remote is great
but i dont want to watch movies on it or view pictures

[nagromme]

Did you all see the 4G dissection pictures? There's nothing in there but bits of twig and a crayon. Weird!

[PHARAOHk]

Did you all see the 4G dissection pictures? There's nothing in there but bits of twig and a crayon. Weird!


lol

[dontmatter]

I'm not sure whether you're geniunely upset or are trolling, but why in the hell would anyone get upset about Apple blocking out someone like Real?

iTMS already has arguably the best catalog and ease-of-use of the competitors. Why in the world would people care to jump through the dumbest hoops to get content from Real, of all companies? Besides the legal argument of hijacking content, I would be scared to go near "Harmony" based on experiences with the crap they already offer.

This is akin to whining when you already have something like nice steak or halibut before you and manage to get upset with the restaurant because they don't offer White Castle sliders on the menu.

It makes little sense to care about that kind of choice.

hmm.... kinda sounds like microsoft's legal defense, a while back "OK, we're a monopoly, but look at all the innovating we've done, look at how much we're the best- so our market share is actually good for computers!"

That is, assuming I remember it correctly. But really, just remember that your opinion about real is your opinion.

[dontmatter]

I would ADORE it if it turned out to be the remote for Airport express, although somehow I doubt it, b/c where is the hardware? But, please, who cares about battery life when you've got a (non car) stereo on hand, b/c that guarentees you can just plug in for an hour and go for the day. But this would be a major step up on competitors, provide one of very few seriously usable features, and make apple's version of wi-fi sooooo much more appealing, they might be able to turn it into dominance of the biggest personal computer innovation and trend since the web browser. particularly if it can find AE devices, and so you can use your ipod to play on your friend's stereo, and he on yours, and in general use your music however you want. Then comes the wi-fi version of ipod your bmw, and seriously, dell et al could not fool people into getting another player b/c it's a bit cheaper.

[Warbrain]

out of curiosity, has anyone checked on their 4Gen iPods the diagnostic menu yet?

[macfan76]

I have a hunch Apple will likely do something like this soon. You could be able to buy a $99 wifi extension (only for the 4th gen) so you can sync up your iPod to the Apple's Music Store and buy songs and download them right to your iPod. How cool would that be? Possible.. maybe, what do you guys think?

[kainjow]

out of curiosity, has anyone checked on their 4Gen iPods the diagnostic menu yet?
I am wondering the same thing because before the firmware update for recording was available, the diagnostic menu had something about recording, so maybe there's something there...

[Esben]

Home is definetly coming but it might be Tiger before we see it.

The lack of a remote with the latest release does not seem to me now so much about Apple saving money but makes me suspicious that they will release a wireless remote for your ipod that goes on your keychain, and the bit that attaches to the ipod to allow this also allows the iPod to talk to the Airport Express... dreaming...

To me the lack of a remote points to a bigger iPod beeing available soon (Apple Expo Paris probably), not some fancy device.

My guess is that the new features are a high end model only feature i.e. color screen or something like that.

I agree with everyone that a wireless feature would be fab, but let's face it...it's not goning to happen this time - at least I think so.

[idkew]

"I'm still waiting for the day when I can delete iPod's tracks and playlists using the device itself, because once I've returned to my computer, I can no longer remember which songs I don't ever want to hear again."

This is REALLY easy. When I find a song on my iPod I don't like I rate it with 1 (one) star. I never use 1 star for anything else. So the next time I sync my iPod to my Mac I can sort by rating and find all the 1 stars and delete them.

i do the exact same thing. i also 1 star songs with incorrect info or mispelled names.

[cryptochrome]

Yeah, I think this is the arrow through the Apple. With other devices hitting the market that allow for video/music playback, I think Apple has to respond. The major difference is that Apple is so much better at video than competitors. I think Apple can provide video playback with better compression and better results.

Sure, it'd be nice to take your slideshows and home movies on the road, playable through any local tv or display.

But the ability to play Keynote presentations would be REALLY useful. You've even got a built-in remote. As would the ability to hook up to printers and print out text and word processing files and images and pdfs. To say nothing of the ability to view these files on the road and even make minor changes. And once you're in the realm of business, file exchange starts looking really attractive. Hmm... I sense a great hook for the next generation of Apple Office software. Compose on your computer, work with them anywhere. Hook it up to a TV or monitor for better viewing, and even use optional miniature keyboards and such. After all, if you can keep your home on iPod, why not let you use it even if you're not near a computer?

Anyway, that's what I'd do. The iPod could suddenly turn into a very attractive and useful tool for everyone, not just a jukebox.

[idkew]

Sure, it'd be nice to take your slideshows and home movies on the road, playable through any local tv or display.

But the ability to play Keynote and Powerpoint presentations would be REALLY useful. You've even got a built-in remote. As would the ability to hook up to printers and print out text and word processing files and images and pdfs. And once you're in the realm of business, file exchange starts looking really attractive.

Anyway, that's what I'd do. The iPod could suddenly turn into a very attractive and useful tool for everyone, not just a jukebox.

jobs has already stated that he wants to keep the ipod as a single use item. NOT a multi-use do everything gadget.

[xsnightclub]

Maybe some new upcoming secret features will be Apple reverse engineering Quicktime to play Real Media files, eliminating the need for the crappy RealPlayer :rolleyes:

[StealthRider]

Um, does anyone know what the decoding chip inside the 4Gs is capable of? Airport access, 5.1 decoding, etc etc? What decoding chip does it use?

[Esben]

I was just thinking if it could have anything to do with the newly mentioned cooperation with Motorola. I can't see what it could be, but perhaps some other way of integrating the iPod with your cell phone.

I seriously think that's a feature that would be great. Some sort of integrating cell and music player...but not having all on one device.

Well perhaps it's just bulls**t!

[cryptochrome]

jobs has already stated that he wants to keep the ipod as a single use item. NOT a multi-use do everything gadget.

Why'd they call it an iPod then, and not iListen or whatever? Why does it serve as both hard drive and music player?

I'm not suggesting it become a PDA or mini-computer. I'm saying it should allow you to use and view your files and data wherever you are. Both the processor and interface are capable of handling it. The Apple digital lifestyle philosophy supports it too.

[rdowns]

"I'm still waiting for the day when I can delete iPod's tracks and playlists using the device itself, because once I've returned to my computer, I can no longer remember which songs I don't ever want to hear again."

This is REALLY easy. When I find a song on my iPod I don't like I rate it with 1 (one) star. I never use 1 star for anything else. So the next time I sync my iPod to my Mac I can sort by rating and find all the 1 stars and delete them.

You could create an on the go playlist for tracks you want to delete.

[ClimbingTheLog]

The problem with internal WiFi in an iPod is that it would destroy the battery life.

There's a low-power 802.11g chipset that's been out for a couple months. Motorola is using it in one of their cellphones.

The trouble with the Airport Express idea is that if you have your iPod by the stereo there's not much point to Airport Express.

Maybe they're using a software radio to tune 802.11 and FM. And the screen also acts as a transducer, so it's also a cell phone. Somebody needs needs to post chip part #'s to make any reasonable guess.

The easy money is on video since we know PortalPlayer'ss next gen chips have it built-in.

[brett33]

To me the lack of a remote points to a bigger iPod beeing available soon (Apple Expo Paris probably), not some fancy device.

My guess is that the new features are a high end model only feature i.e. color screen or something like that.

I agree with everyone that a wireless feature would be fab, but let's face it...it's not goning to happen this time - at least I think so.

I think you might be onto something about a possible bigger badder iPod comnig down ther road. Something seems a bit fishy to me with the reports of Apple snatching up 60GB drives and then they come out with the 4Gs, drop the prices and are now offering two instead of three models.

My guess and it is a pure guess, would be something along the lines of an iPod Pro, directed at people who like to make music as well as listen to it. I'm thinking 60GB, line in, some sorta wireless, and a different enclosure that goes feels more like the pro line of equipment.

Just think that maybe they thought they would segment the market a little bit like with the consumer computers and professional computers.

Just a guess.
Brett

[ScotRobson]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!

I've seen at leat 20 replies to Ahmeds post telling him just to hold down the buttons and it will switch off etc and at some point he was even called a knob.

Did anyone at all notice that he said "Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore" in my mind that means if your holding buttons down the iPod is not reacting therefore its not switching off.

No?

Scot

[ScotRobson]

I remember hearing the same thing when i got my 1st gen and my 3rd gen..that some people's screens in fact did look slightly blue. I think it depends on the type of lighting around the pod. Both my backlights are white as ice. A slight tint of blue would be cool, but oh well.

There are all "bluer" (is that right?) now

[Telomar]

Did anyone at all notice that he said "Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore" in my mind that means if your holding buttons down the iPod is not reacting therefore its not switching off.

No?

ScotAlthough it won't react to button pressing it will react to the resetting. If your iPod is frozen it's very rare you can't restart it using the buttons.

[ScotRobson]

Two questions:

Because of the click wheel can you still reset the iPod by holding down play and menu? i thought the wheel only allowed one of the four to be depressed at a time.

Second, has anybody started making new cases for the 4th gens yet? I had an iSkin and loved it, but they haven't got a 4th gen yet that I've seen...

iskins for the 4th gen are coming in August, doesnt mention the date but you can sign up for an email once there launched at iskins.com

for resetting you hold the button in the middle and either play or menu cant remember

Scot

[ynTheatre]

hmm.... kinda sounds like microsoft's legal defense, a while back "OK, we're a monopoly, but look at all the innovating we've done, look at how much we're the best- so our market share is actually good for computers!"

That is, assuming I remember it correctly. But really, just remember that your opinion about real is your opinion.

Apple has a 70% of the legal music download market. A very shaky, low profit market. It has a 50% of portable music player market. [Sorry if the numbers are off a bit]. I'm not sure that constitutes a monopoly, but simply a success for a great company who has found the key to succeed where others failled.

As for Real, I don't think it's polite to break in when you were told you can't come in. Apple has every right to protect their hardware and software. This allows them to provide the easy of use for their customers that they are so proud of. Imaging if people started buying fewer ipods because they had a hard time with the 'bootleg' Real files and confusing sync software and Apple couldn't do anything for them when they called customer service. (I doubt you'll be able to simply put these files into iTunes and sync to an iPod - if you are already in iTunes, why would you wanna go to Real to buy songs only to import them back to iTunes?)

Apple has a great product, that keeps getting better and Real wants to piggyback on Apple's success. That's foul play in my book. Microsoft is a monopoly because it made it hard for people in browser and media player markets (or what's left of them) to compete. IPods and iTunes aren't stopping Real or Sony or others from releasing their products and having them be viable options (since they are not tied to a specific operating system like Windows). The fact that so far no one has come close to the iPod isn't Apple's fault. It just shows that when you think different, good things happen.

Anyway, now that my little rant is over (figured I'd make up for all the time I've been reading and not posting). I think the communication with Express would be awesome. Now that this poor college student has dug himself out of a financial hole, I'll be buying my first iPod soon. :) I don't remember who said it, but I think it makes the best sense that iPod would serve as a remote for a streaming computer as opposed to an outright streaming solution to save up on battery power.

Here's to a great company!

Thanks Apple.

Yuri
(Switched a year ago when I started college and you will have to pry my powerbook out of cold dead hands. Unless of course I can afford the new iMac G5). :rolleyes:

[mojohanna]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)

On the Mini's if you hold down the select button and the menu button at the same time for about 5-6 seconds, the ipod will reboot. I have had a couple of freezes and this takes care of it. I am assuming that the 4gen with the click wheel will do the same.

[mvc]

Always figured Steve would have to crack in the end, just peel off that fake rotary dial on the front and you'll see the real one underneath.

Ladies and gentlemen , I bring you the iPhone

:rolleyes:

[autrefois]

The 3G was a mistake... I mean, putting those buttons on there? Was some engineer from Dell hired for that one? I'm glad they went back to the simplicity of just the wheel with buttons around that.

I personally like the buttons; although I've never used a buttonless iPod, I don't see what the problem is with having buttons.

I wonder what on Earth the hidden feature(s) could be? I'm very curious what the future holds for iPod. I hope whatever they come up with further blows away any "competition."

But what is it with this hidden-secret-happy-bonus-feature-trust-us-you'll-like-it bit: why can't Apple be upfront with people for once? Either don't mention it at all, or come out and say it.

In any case, I'll be very happily hanging onto my 40GB 3Gen for a while to come. Even if Apple doesn't deign to put shuffle in the main menu for us poor saps...

[gauriemma]

...am I the only one who thinks that pretty much the only thing missing from the iPod at this point is an FM tuner?

I use my 2G 20gig 'pod on the train every day, and while I love my music, it sure would be nice to be able to switch over to NPR on occasion. An integrated FM tuner can't be that hard. My wife's cell phone has one, fer pete's sake!

[Arcady]

...am I the only one who thinks that pretty much the only thing missing from the iPod at this point is an FM tuner? !

I thought the whole point was that you weren't locked into the 6 radio stations (controlled by 2 companies) that play the same 12 songs all day. If you really want to listen to that crap, buy headphones with an FM tuner built in.

[Natron]

I'm not as optimistic as some on the idea of a video-out on the iPod. Again, it would take a special adapter that would hook into the dock connector and run to a TV, and as people have mentioned that would also work on the 3G iPods since they have the dock connector. Defeats the purpose of this whole rumor, really.

-Joe

Except for the fact that the 4G iPod "is a ground-up reconstruction" (at least according to the article).

[Meall]

eventually someoene with a 4g ipod will dismantel it and post pictures.. maybe then we will figure it out


Look here:


http://www.ipoding.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album11&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

No Wifi, no BT

[medea]

I am not going to read through all of the replies but from what I've read I'm going to guess no one has noticed this yet.
If you disconnect the headphones from the iPod it automatically pauses the song.

[Colonel Panik]

Poor old Ahmed. He's not going to post again in a hurry.

New feature...? I'll bet that it's got a Stun Gun feature built in. Just point and aim and twiddle the scrollwheel... ZAAPPPP! 10,000 Volts arcing through the air burning people jet black and making them dance like on the dancing iPod adverts.

[Porchland]

My guess and it is a pure guess, would be something along the lines of an iPod Pro, directed at people who like to make music as well as listen to it. I'm thinking 60GB, line in, some sorta wireless, and a different enclosure that goes feels more like the pro line of equipment.


This sort of development would give Apple the opportunity to charge a premium for a killer-app feature and then trickle it down to cheaper models with refreshes down the road.

[snpl8tiger]

People are too stuck on the whole Bluetooth/WiFi iPod concept. The Hidden Features are going to tap into the newly approved Wireless Firewire Standards.

Remember that Steve Jobs hinted that Apple was already working on the whole "remote control thing" for the Airport Extreme? Well the 4G iPod and the Airport Extreme are a package but work differently than some expect. The 4G iPod, when connected to iTunes on a Mac or PC with a Wireless Firewire adapter, turns into a Wireless Remote that can control the iTunes library residing on the Mac/PC and stream music out over AirTunes. The music is streamed from the computer and not the iPod. The iPod is simply a user interface to control the entire system.

The iPod is an extension of the Digital Hub and not the central unit...

[2A Batterie]

A: You guessed it... Frank Stallone.

[Over Achiever]

People are too stuck on the whole Bluetooth/WiFi iPod concept. The Hidden Features are going to tap into the newly approved Wireless Firewire Standards.

Remember that Steve Jobs hinted that Apple was already working on the whole "remote control thing" for the Airport Extreme? Well the 4G iPod and the Airport Extreme are a package but work differently than some expect. The 4G iPod, when connected to iTunes on a Mac or PC with a Wireless Firewire adapter, turns into a Wireless Remote that can control the iTunes library residing on the Mac/PC and stream music out over AirTunes. The music is streamed from the computer and not the iPod. The iPod is simply a user interface to control the entire system.

The iPod is an extension of the Digital Hub and not the central unit...
I was wondering when someone was going to mention that. I believe you've hit the new feature squarely in the head.

[homerjward]

this may have already been mentioned, but i can just see the commercial for home on ipod when tiger comes out...*pans out in to dreamish sequence*

some guy walks/ half dances down to the street to some rock tune, he keeps walking without dancing, then gets to a dont walk sign and checks his daily planner in the notes, then the hand on the walk/dont sign spins around to walk and he starts walking again, then in the shuffle comes "homeward bound" by simon and garfunkel. and since the song starts out really quiet, it's still not really loud or exciting yet, then he walks into his house with the door unlocked, while he's walking up the front porch steps simon and garfunkel sing "oh, i wish i was..." and when he gets inside the song goes "homeward bound..." and he places it in the dock next to his g5 pb introduced simultaneously just as the song goes "HOME!", then it switches to screenshots and "where my thought's escaping" he opens an appleworks 7 document (it'll happen eventually) from his home directory (on the ipod), then on "where my music's playin" he's browing thru itunes on the mac, then "where my love lies waitin" he looks at some pictures of his girlfriend off of his home directory on his ipod, then the song plays in the background while it shows some shots of the 'pod in the dock, some screenshots of tiger, then some 360 shots of the pb, then he gets up and turns on his stereo hooked up with airtunes and relaxes on the couch...

awesome commercial for awesome stuff, what could be better? well an ultraportable pb with a ipod hard drive, no optical, and a 8-10 inch screen would be nice, but maybe another day

[crackrock]

This is IT.

You will be able to charge your ipod and update songs using wireless firewire.

[puckhead193]

I like the idea of the wireless remote for the air port express, that's what alot of these things are missing. It makes logical sense.
I just want to know the new feature because sat. i'm ording my powerbook!

If you could charge your ipod wirelessly and sync it that would be cool. but i mean how lazy are we ,we can't put the ipod in the dock to charge and sync it.
Also why did apple not include the wired remoted. I could see why... but its nice to have.

[kugino]

iskins for the 4th gen are coming in August, doesnt mention the date but you can sign up for an email once there launched at iskins.com

for resetting you hold the button in the middle and either play or menu cant remember

Scot

note that it's iskin.com (without the "s")...or else you get a very different site.

[soypunk]

4G iPod screens do have a blue tint... mine has it and the ones in the stores do as well.
I'd like to see where Steve said the iPod was going to be a single use device. I distinctly remember him saying he called it the iPod because it was a digital lifestyle device and that music was just the beginning.
Folks suggesting a photo slideshow and/or keynote integration are likely balls-on-accurate.
Home on the iPod is possible today really, seems like a niche feature but I thought I saw a credible report that it was going to be part of Tiger... anyone else remember that?
Bluetooth-support would be possible in a new dock, but I don't see the point... bluetooth syncing seems quite slow with different devices I have tried.

[iMeowbot]

Always figured Steve would have to crack in the end, just peel off that fake rotary dial on the front and you'll see the real one underneath.

Ladies and gentlemen , I bring you the iPhone
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15587&stc=1&thumb=1
:rolleyes:

We are stunned that mvc has adopted the tactics and ethics of a hacker to break into the One And Only Real True iPhone(R) (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=953603), and we are investigating the implications of his actions under the DMCA and other laws. We strongly caution mvc and his customers that when we update our iPhone protocol from time to time it is highly likely that mvc's White Dial technology will cease to work with current and future Genuine Black Dial iPhones.

[hybrid_x]

That is not exactly true; while it appears to be off it is not; the iPod is still using power and if you don't use it for awhile it will run out of power. Granted no one ever leaves their iPod for that long without using it...right? :rolleyes:
There has always been two ways to shut off your iPod:

1) Pause the song and the iPod will go to sleep. It retains all of the data pre-loaded into the buffer, so when you power it up again, it will pick up exactly where you left off. This drains the battery quicker, because a trickle of power is used to keep the contents of the buffer in RAM.

2) Press and hold the "Play/Pause" button and it clears the buffer and shuts off. The battery will eventually drain, but at a much slower pace than if it just goes to sleep with a full buffer.

[Porchland]

iPorn.

[mark_sloan]

There is nothing that I would think would be cooler than adding wi-fi and bluetooth to an iPod. But it isn't going to happen. With the new chip inside there could be the ability to record 48khz audio, but really I think the surprises will be with synching and a new dock.

A new dock could have an IR port for a remote and connect to Airport Express via 100 Base T and viola... you are now able to use the dock to navigate any iTunes on your network AND your iPod is now shared. They could do more with a special dock and do video or something, but I doubt it. What would be nice is if they did have video out and used the new dock to hook up to your TV and give you access to music, movies and photos from your network through the Air Express...

[Warbrain]

seriously, check the diagnostic menu on the 4G iPod. it might be there. i didn't read that anybody had yet, so let's get cracking on it and see what's there!

[The Cheat]

I remember hearing the same thing when i got my 1st gen and my 3rd gen..that some people's screens in fact did look slightly blue. I think it depends on the type of lighting around the pod. Both my backlights are white as ice. A slight tint of blue would be cool, but oh well.

Actually, I have a 3G iPod and its screen is as blue as, um, the sky? I'm not 100% sure butI think I remember hearing that some had white backlights and some had blue backlights because they had two sources for the screens, and depending on which was used in your ipod, it was either white or blue.

What I am sure about, though, is that blue screen iPods, as well as the people who own them, are much, much cooler. :cool:

[SiliconAddict]

I'm still holding fast to the notion that the reason we haven't seen or had an announcement of a 60Gb iPod is because this high end iPod is going to be diff then the rest just as the iPod Mini is different from the reg iPod. A diff iPod might require a diff firmware which Apple might standardize across the board.
At least I hope that's the reason. Other then the Jobs grudge thing. :confused:

[mvc]

We are stunned that mvc has adopted the tactics and ethics of a hacker to break into the One And Only Real True iPhone(R) (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=953603)

Ahhah thats laugh, can't read every thread I guess, but now I've seen it I think yours looks like an older generation dial, so maybe mine IS the update! ;)

[zim]

I think that the key to the comment is this, "...its really compelling applications — the ones that very well might get the goat of anyone unable or unwilling to upgrade — are still secret."

Could be home on the iPod, could be a calculator... but I think it has to do with application development.

[Porchland]

I think that the key to the comment is this, "...its really compelling applications — the ones that very well might get the goat of anyone unable or unwilling to upgrade — are still secret."

Could be home on the iPod, could be a calculator... but I think it has to do with application development.

It's actually GOAT porn. That's the new killer app.

[tex210]

I thought about it from the viewpoint of simplicity. The buttons are gone. the surface is clean. Everyone wants home in/on the iPod.... sounds better than users.. work?...you just take it with you. Drop your 4g iPod into your new G5 iMac that has a kind of dock built in (Perhaps the dock isn't even built in but remains seperate?). Your iPod is the hard drive. Now a heat issue has been removed entirely from the enclosure of a consumer/ education/ buisiness terminal. Every incoming freshman gets an iPod. plug it into a laptop., Home. the cost difference for all those people who have already purchased the iPod ....no need for another hard drive. Bring the cost down for those people and you are free to redesign the iMac. A pc with a removable "core". It leads into an investment in a machine that is their next logical purchase to extend their iPod life. Video at home, or in the car for the kids... in the backseat please. Seriously guys... don't drive watching video! As bad as dwi. It's deadly.
The iMac is going to become even more consumer friendly!


not that anyone will read this post apparently... :(

[SiliconAddict]

I think that the key to the comment is this, "...its really compelling applications — the ones that very well might get the goat of anyone unable or unwilling to upgrade — are still secret."

Could be home on the iPod, could be a calculator... but I think it has to do with application development.

The problem with that idea is that the scroll wheel is hardly a decent means to control an application other then well scrolling. I mean for contacts, music, maybe internet anything that does lists its good otherwise eh...not so much.
I don't think this is app development. They said applications which would suggest something built in. Any reverse engineers in the crowd? ;) someone needs to do a ROM dump and see what's up. :D Whatever it is it’s a good bet its not going to be Mac specific. The iPod has been moving away from having any one feature tied to a platform so whatever it is probably will work on Windows and Mac.
I’m going to dig up my other idea that I had a while ago. On the go iTunes purchases through WIFI.
Lets say you are sitting at the airport and are sitting in the bar. On the boob tube a song comes on that you like. You whip out your 60GB iPod and log into the local WIFI network. Or you whip out the WIFI attachment that plugs into the bottom of your iPod. The plugin has a small ROM that stores your various WIFI settings. Since you’ve been in that airport before it just picks it up. The iPod recognizes the WIFI attachment and enables this “hidden” feature. iTunes Music Store to Go. It downloads the list of artists on iTunes and caches it on your iPod (Less times it has to access the net the better batt life.) You can browse iTMS like you browse your local list. You can browse, preview, and purchase. When you purchase, either an album or a track it downloads it to the local disk and simply uploads it to your computer next time you sync.

[zim]

I thought about it from the viewpoint of simplicity. The buttons are gone. the surface is clean. Everyone wants home in/on the iPod.... sounds better than users.. work?...you just take it with you. Drop your 4g iPod into your new G5 iMac that has a kind of dock built in (Perhaps the dock isn't even built in but remains seperate?). Your iPod is the hard drive. Now a heat issue has been removed entirely from the enclosure of a consumer/ education/ buisiness terminal. Every incoming freshman gets an iPod. plug it into a laptop., Home. the cost difference for all those people who have already purchased the iPod ....no need for another hard drive. Bring the cost down for those people and you are free to redesign the iMac. A pc with a removable "core". It leads into an investment in a machine that is their next logical purchase to extend their iPod life. Video at home, or in the car for the kids... in the backseat please. Seriously guys... don't drive watching video! As bad as dwi. It's deadly.
The iMac is going to become even more consumer friendly!


not that anyone will read this post apparently... :(

I like this idea but, wouldn't it limit the special usage to iMac owners, which would be great for me :)

[reorx]

Well, I thought the original poster's complaint was exactly this issue; that is, the battery is always draining no matter what you do. He wanted to be able to turn it off completly so it won't drain power, which you can not do right now.

Because its standby allows the iPod to respond to user input nearly immediately, just like a PowerBook. This is a good thing, because a cold boot on an iPod and PowerBook (and any other computer which accesses a disk on boot) uses tons of power, and takes a bit of time... How would you like to wait for your iPod to boot every time you wanted to listen to music? Not me...

Edit: Dangit, I need to read all the posts before repeating a repetitive, redundant reply... :D

[dontmatter]

People are too stuck on the whole Bluetooth/WiFi iPod concept. The Hidden Features are going to tap into the newly approved Wireless Firewire Standards.

Remember that Steve Jobs hinted that Apple was already working on the whole "remote control thing" for the Airport Extreme? Well the 4G iPod and the Airport Extreme are a package but work differently than some expect. The 4G iPod, when connected to iTunes on a Mac or PC with a Wireless Firewire adapter, turns into a Wireless Remote that can control the iTunes library residing on the Mac/PC and stream music out over AirTunes. The music is streamed from the computer and not the iPod. The iPod is simply a user interface to control the entire system.

The iPod is an extension of the Digital Hub and not the central unit...

Much better would be if it could broadcast or just control the computer. If the computer is out of range of the stereo, or you're using this outside of your own house or some other place where the computer you synch your ipod to isn't there, is off, or doesn't have wireless, it would be able to broadcast on it's own. On the other hand, it would have major advantages by working in remote mode for battery power, using the computer as a wi-fi bridge to extend the range, and best of all, if it could use rendevous to browse and play shared music. Then, it could also be a bridge from computer to stereo. But shared music, broadcast wirelessly and controlled by your ipod-remote would be AWESOME. Then, in the next version, they could throw in itms browsability, so you could go, oooh, I want that song! and get it from your ipod. And, this would be as a remote, so you're computer does it, and you don't have to expose your credit card info to the airwaves.

And then an FM radio built in, too!!! Please already!!! (I realize most radio is horrendous, but not home here in seattle) (of course, internet radio, browsable by the ipod, and played from your computer through your stereo, wouldn't be a bad alternative.)

[brn2prgrm]

seriously, check the diagnostic menu on the 4G iPod. it might be there. i didn't read that anybody had yet, so let's get cracking on it and see what's there!

I've played with the debug menu and there isn't much in there. The only new things are mainly battery info, and a debug thing that detects when your headphones are plugged in, and whether the hold switch is on/off, there's also a button test option and a ram test option. If you wanna try it yourself, reset your ipod (hold menu+select), release when it goes blank, and then startup in debug mode (hold previous+select.)

[dontmatter]

I'm too lazy to refind the guy (or girl) to quote, but here's the question- yeah, wheel sucks for anything but lists.... but, the ipod still has five buttons, and two more effectively with the wheel (scroll up and down... obviously there are as many buttons with a list as the list is long, but that takes precision, and the idea here is button... so up and down). Using these, apple could probably design some interface that wouldn't be quite as nice as having a full keyboard and number pad, but if really well designed.... could allow a few more options than a simple lists compounded on lists would. Then again, now I realize I shouldn't have said any of this, b/c if you created some area of the ipod based on using all the buttons and stuff, you'd also have an area where hitting skip, or play/pause, wouldn't do anything that makes any sense. Which would be sad.

[chewbaccapits]

I lived in Sweden in third grade ('91) and went to MalmaSkolan in Uppsala.

Anyhow for the juicy info, my friend from Woodside, California just e-mailed me a leak of an Apple press release (it is apparently a memo from Steve Jobs to someone named Bob):

CUPERTINO, California—August 5, 2004—On July 19, Apple® introduced the new iPod®, the fourth generation of the world’s number one portable digital music player, featuring Apple’s patent pending Click Wheel, which combines the smooth and continuous scrolling of a touch-sensitive wheel with five push buttons for superior one handed navigation. The new iPod also features up to 12 hours battery life and Shuffle Songs, a new command in the main menu which gives users instant access to one of the most exciting new ways to listen to their music library.

Today Apple is proud to announce that there is more than music inside the new generation of iPods. Today Apple announces the "Yes! I've Got a Golden Ticket!" promotion to coincide with Tim Burton's 2005 release of Charlie and the Chocolate factory. Five iPods will be produced that contain golden tickets inside. One has already been sold, and the other four will be released randomly as the release of Charlie and the Chocolate factory nears.

Although there is actually a gold leaf ticket inside five iPods, it is possible to determine if your iPod is a winner via a key combination which will show an icon of a golden ticket if you are a winner. Any user with a golden ticket who has physically opened the iPod will be disqualified. Instructions on a key combination to determine if you are a winner will be given out at an undisclosed time, and at undisclosed event. The golden leaf ticket, with a very unique design, will be used as proof of ownership.

The five lucky winners face a fate perhaps more magical than Charlie's; they will tour the Apple Campus with Steve Jobs himself and learn about all the new technologies Apple is hard at work creating.

---Ok Bob, that's the "vision thing" idea; make it happen! I had some ideas for some of our world famous slogans:

THE MINIMIZE BUTTON TASTES LIKE A MINIMIZE BUTTON
BUT I WANT MY FOURTH GENERATION IPOD NOW, DADDY
...ahh just get chiat on it, thx....

Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its award-winning desktop and notebook computers, OS X operating system, and iLife and professional applications. Apple is also spearheading the digital music revolution with its iPod portable music players and iTunes online music store.

What a great post....Glad you didn't post retarted jokes like, "the new feature is a stun gun or satellite tracker"....There has been about a handful of sorry attempts for the same joke but for some reason it has yet to capture the LOL monster....Beside that, people are focusing way too much on this on/off switch; Stop posting about it all ready...Anyway, swinger, this post was very funny but man, that would be hella cool..."I got a golden ticket!!"....classic.

[Warbrain]

I've played with the debug menu and there isn't much in there. The only new things are mainly battery info, and a debug thing that detects when your headphones are plugged in, and whether the hold switch is on/off, there's also a button test option and a ram test option. If you wanna try it yourself, reset your ipod (hold menu+select), release when it goes blank, and then startup in debug mode (hold previous+select.)

can't. i'm at a 3Gen. iPod. 10 GB. plus, i already know how to do that, and i have already gone through one iPod because of the diagnostic menu.

[appleface]

it sounds like apple has kept it secret again. the best insight i've seen is that the pod pauses when the headphones are unplugged.

[jacobj]

This is the one thing that annoys the heck out of me ever since the first iPod. That the thing doesn't have an ON/OFF switch. Drains the batteries needlessly (because it takes a while before it goes into standby) and also screws you over big time if your iPod crashes on the road with no Mac/PC nearby to reset it. Never heard of iPod crashing, yes it does that every once in a while, at least for me when it has problems reading a track. Locks up and doesn't react to any input from the buttons anymore, and no ON/OFF switch to reset it!
C'mon Apple, its just a simple button/switch!
Regards,

Ahmed (owner of a 1st Gen iPod)

Please tell me that you know to hold down the menu and play buttons simultaneously to reset to iPod? It's like a restart on a mac or PC.

[zpapasmurf]

What if they offered a wifi addon that had its own slot for say, an AA, or AAA battery to power itself?

[appleface]

a new feature of the 4G is that you can slow or speed audio books without changing the pitch. maybe you can apply this technology to songs. i'm not a DJ, but wouldn't that would make DJing with an ipod easier?

this would also incorporate other posters' ideas about the 60gb ipod carrying "pro" features. i know everyone rants about needing a 150 gb ipod for the music that they claim to listen to every week, but i can see that a DJ might actually "need" 60 gb of space. i don't know that everyone would use this ap, so maybe this is a bad idea, but i thought of it, so i posted it (run-on sentence? yes).

the propods could even have an inner and an outer scroll wheel for controlling two songs at once. okay, i'm going a little crazy with this idea.

[kwikdeth]

How about this? Does anyone see a connection between the new feature in iTunes for watching movie trailers to the "hidden features"?, perhaps tie into a more highly featured dock? Hear me out on this...Ive read a few places how the new chipset in the 4G iPod can handle video. I assume this would mean output, but would it be possible for you to import video as well? Products like EyeTV have been gaining popularity for a while now, enough that people are starting to take notice. I'm sure Steve has TIVO and probably loves it...The way TIVO has exploded... that's a really hot ticket and given Steve's whole vision for the "digital hub"....
So what if the new features are actually a TIVO-like ability, when paired with a new A/V dock, to record your favorite TV programs directly into the iPod... then, take the iPod over to your mac, and edit your stuff together in iMovie and iDVD. Then, hook it back up to your TV to watch your edited project or record it onto videotape (for the old-skoolers :) Or that also the new A/V dock comes with a remote, so you can use the TIVO features on iPod in real-time, just like TIVO (after all, that's half the point)

so perhaps in a month or two, we'll get our 60gb iPods, along with the new A/V dock, turning every 4G iPod into a TIVO as well. (and you know that if Apple is doing this, they are going to do it in suc.... ****, it just hit me.... iTV!

60GB iPods and the new iTV. Turn your 4G iPod into a home digital video recorder and a whole lot more.

(im really going to go whole-hog on this)
iPod AV dock

full complement of composite and s-video input/output. Component video output. Line-Level RCA audio input and output. Digital audio input and output. Connect the iPod AV Dock to your firewire and DVD-equipped Macintosh, and watch DVDs on your home theater system in full DTS and Dolby Digital surround-sound. Schedule your favorite TV programs to record with Apple's new iTV software. Control the real-time AV features of iPod and iTV with the new Apple Bluetooth Remote. With the AV Dock's bluetooth and wi-fi capabilities, you can stream songs to or from the AV dock or iPod, so your computer doesn't even have to be in the same room to schedule your programs or transfer video to/from iPod AV Dock.



(things i think help back this all up:
-someone mentioned 4G iPod showed "do not disconnect" when plugged into Airport Express's USB port.
-rumors around time of 3G introduction of a "Pro Dock" for what was said then to be DJ/musican-related purposes
-Airport express. duh!
-trailers in iTunes.


so call me crazy. but i think this theory holds a fair amount of water.

[Counterfit]

I would assume that the remote from the 3G works just fine on the 4G. But, what if there's a new remote coming out, with a small LCD display? That's something I've been wanting for a while now...

[krohde]

Two questions:

Because of the click wheel can you still reset the iPod by holding down play and menu? i thought the wheel only allowed one of the four to be depressed at a time.

Second, has anybody started making new cases for the 4th gens yet? I had an iSkin and loved it, but they haven't got a 4th gen yet that I've seen...

To reset the new 4G ipod you need to hold the menu button down + the middle button.

And with regards to the difference in screen color, here's the deal: Blue screens are on iPods produced in China and white backlight is Taiwanese production. Don't ask me why they are different colors, thats also a mystery to me too, but the country of production determines your background light color.

The ONE thing i am still waiting for is a remote and headphones with shorter cords. Just do it like Sony - have good length on the remote control but keep the damn headphone cord short - just enough to go from the middle of your body and around the neck one the right earbud. You look like the cable guy when you have all those cords hanging and dangling from your body. If and when this comes out I will actually use the remote. Until then I discretely hide the headphone cord under my shirt and leave the remote at home. Come on Apple, think logical!

[comictimes]

As long as we're talking about completely unrealistic possibilities, I'll say that there should be simple 3d downloadable games which could be played with a small keypad (sold seperately for a mere $15!) wouldn't that be interesting...

[ArticulatedArm]

The equivalent of Isight for the Ipod, "Ihear"?

Walkie Talkie function?

Would also allow audio in.

It would be awsome if anywhere you go your Ipod could pickup all the other Ipods with walkie talkie function and you could select which one you wanted to talk to using the scroll wheel.

Would be great for social situations -- clubs/Bars/parties.

It also seems a very "mac-ish" idea.

[Diatribe]

Why would Apple hide features in their iPods or make them only accessible through a firmware upgrade? How many people that have an iPod on the windows side will actually upgrade the firmware?
And besides, why didn't they make these "secrets" available upon release?
I'd say this writer has too big of an imagination and too much time on his hands. :D

[MarkW19]

Why would Apple hide features in their iPods or make them only accessible through a firmware upgrade? How many people that have an iPod on the windows side will actually upgrade the firmware?
And besides, why didn't they make these "secrets" available upon release?
I'd say this writer has too big of an imagination and too much time on his hands. :D

Perhaps because the hardware has the capabilities, but the software isn't finished yet?

Because people were hampering for a new iPod update, and it'd been a long time since it'd been updated, Apple had to rush this update out, while still developing the software for the "extra" features, whatever they may be.

Any, they decided to "announce" the inclusion of some secret features a couple of days ago, because the vast majority of Apple-supports and iPod'ers were very dissapointed by this minor "4G" update, so they were just letting everyone know that this is just the beginning.

At least, I hope that's the case! I just got my 4G 40GB today, and it's great (just upgraded from a broken 1G). But I can't wait to find out what these new features are!!

[Diatribe]

Perhaps because the hardware has the capabilities, but the software isn't finished yet?

Because people were hampering for a new iPod update, and it'd been a long time since it'd been updated, Apple had to rush this update out, while still developing the software for the "extra" features, whatever they may be.

Any, they decided to "announce" the inclusion of some secret features a couple of days ago, because the vast majority of Apple-supports and iPod'ers were very dissapointed by this minor "4G" update, so they were just letting everyone know that this is just the beginning.

At least, I hope that's the case! I just got my 4G 40GB today, and it's great (just upgraded from a broken 1G). But I can't wait to find out what these new features are!!

I love how Apple usually "announces stuff". Read this for further information: :D http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/ As also posted here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=81890&highlight=apple+product+cycle

But if it is indeed true it would definitely be nice and interesting to see what the hell is in there, because from pictures of disassembled 4G iPods they don't look all that different.

[tf23]

I thought the whole point was that you weren't locked into the 6 radio stations (controlled by 2 companies) that play the same 12 songs all day. If you really want to listen to that crap, buy headphones with an FM tuner built in.

You missed the fact that the parent poster was referring to listening to NPR... it doesn't really fit the "same 12 songs all day" mold.

[ScotRobson]

Can someone explain what "home" is please? I've never heard of it. and yes I know its the place I live! :D

Scot

[MarkW19]

Home on iPod means that you can take your Home folder (containing all your preferences, documents etc.) on your iPod. and plug it into any Mac, and use it as if it was yours. Your desktop picture, email and prefs would be recalled etc.

This has been a much-anticipated feature - I'm hoping that Apple have more up their sleeves than that!

[CoreForce]

Home on iPod means that you can take your Home folder (containing all your preferences, documents etc.) on your iPod. and plug it into any Mac, and use it as if it was yours. Your desktop picture, email and prefs would be recalled etc.

Remembering that one university deal with students to be supplied with iPods, this makes perfect sense. Provide Apple intrastructure but have them carry the personal stuff along on their own iPods. No home directories on the servers any more...

[bumfilter]

I love how Apple usually "announces stuff". Read this for further information: :D http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/

I love it :D

[cyberrob]

the ipod is first of all a music gadget... i would like to see cool things like videos and photos on a color screen but i gave up my idea of an allround gadget... so i think it's more a hidden thing on itunes, itms and airport express and airtunes... why can't there be a (surely low energy) wifi-adapter (just like the itrip or so..)?!? Wireless Firewire and Bluetooth doesn't make sense when you see the used range of wifi in apples products... would even make sense to put your ipod at home in the dock so wifi isn't burning down the battery...

hope it will be unveiled at apple expo paris on august 31 ;-) (hopefully via internet live-stream)...

cyberrob

[Windowlicker]

All that Apple is saying is that there's more to this than what's being publicized.

so it DOES have a G5 inside!!! WELCOME G6 POWERBOOKS!

[Porchland]

There are all "bluer" (is that right?) now

Consistent with the blue-packaging look we've been seeing lately. That would tend to make me agree that the hidden feature has something to do with AE.

[maradong]

perhaps a PDF reader?
Oh, that would be so awesome, reading all your pdfs in the subway or bus. I mean, it works with notes, why not with PDFs, even thought that would eat some CPU..

[Porchland]

I thought the whole point was that you weren't locked into the 6 radio stations (controlled by 2 companies) that play the same 12 songs all day. If you really want to listen to that crap, buy headphones with an FM tuner built in.

Exactly. I don't think for a minute that this is a technology choice for Apple. If Steve Jobs wanted an FM tuner, it would be there already. That's not to say that Apple wouldn't give into market pressure at some point and add the FM feature, but at this point it's an omission by choice.

Now if you could get XM.....

[Windowlicker]

Remembering that one university deal with students to be supplied with iPods, this makes perfect sense. Provide Apple intrastructure but have them carry the personal stuff along on their own iPods. No home directories on the servers any more...

never thought of it that way.. wow! now the only problem: when attaching the pod, would it instantly detect a new user on the computer? because rebooting the computer every time someone needs it takes time.

also, are they gonna have a dock next to every computer? they would come handy :)

[clonenode]

Why would Apple hide features in their iPods or make them only accessible through a firmware upgrade? How many people that have an iPod on the windows side will actually upgrade the firmware?
And besides, why didn't they make these "secrets" available upon release?
I'd say this writer has too big of an imagination and too much time on his hands. :D
Everyone should have learned by now that Apple does not build one dimensional devices. The iPod is not just a music player and Macs are not "just computers". Compare the OS X to Windows and iLife to... well whatever.

Apple's products have legs... and they last. So the iPod is not like a Dell DJ that is sold as is, with all of its features plastered al over the place and accessible through a bunch of awkward buttons. There is subtlty to the iPod and to Apple computers.

So, while some may see hidden features, Apple sees upgradability. It means the device has value.

[Porchland]

Originally Posted by Diatribe

I love how Apple usually "announces stuff". Read this for further information: http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/



I love it

Maria Bartiromo... almost there... ahhhh. Apple-W. OK, back to the chats.

[nagromme]

New peripherals someday, maybe, and maybe new software features. But I seriously doubt any hardware features are hidden inside!

The internal redesign is probably to make a more efficient, cheaper, lower-power design. Not to add anything.

[Orge]

I'm not so sure about the ipod/AE remote ideas... It seems that this is a very expensive option for providing the functionality airport express needs. You have to buy (assuming you don't already own one) an ipod AND an adapter. Other points for consideration are:

The ipod is not a convenient size when compared to an average remote handset and its going to have an adapter of some sorts plugged into it as well
Do you really want your friends/children to be using a £300 ipod when they are changing tunes on your hi fi? As opposed to a (cheaper) remote?
Wi-Fi and batteries

Personally, I don't own an ipod (at the moment) but I am very interested in the idea of using a powermac and a couple of AE bricks to stream my music from one convenient location to all the stereos in my house. I don't think I will bother if I am going to have to spend another £200-300 for a remote (per room!)?

Plugging into the port on the AE hub sort of makes sense. However, surely you would have your computer synced with your ipod and available on express already? Like I say, I don't have one so I'm not sure whether this is how people tend to use them... I thought that the ipod typically held a subset of the music that was stored on your computer.

Home on ipod is the only thing I have seen on this thread that I feel confident about it. I am certain it will turn up at some point. The idea of syncing imovie and iphoto plays along with this and are the kind of application developments that this "hint"may be referring to - although photo and video playback on the ipods own screen would not be the aim of these enhancements.

Just some thoughts... ;)

[sinisterdesign]

...and I got it for $70 because a buddy was buying an iBook through education store and didn't want the iPod.

wow, you really scored. when it comes in, hand him the $70, snatch it out of his hand while saying "YOINK!" and then proceed to tell him how much of a dumbass he is (make sure you have the ipod in hand first).


so how random of a comment is this from Apple? "we have features, we're just not telling you." damn, i may have to go buy one after all...

[idkew]

People are too stuck on the whole Bluetooth/WiFi iPod concept. The Hidden Features are going to tap into the newly approved Wireless Firewire Standards.

Remember that Steve Jobs hinted that Apple was already working on the whole "remote control thing" for the Airport Extreme? Well the 4G iPod and the Airport Extreme are a package but work differently than some expect. The 4G iPod, when connected to iTunes on a Mac or PC with a Wireless Firewire adapter, turns into a Wireless Remote that can control the iTunes library residing on the Mac/PC and stream music out over AirTunes. The music is streamed from the computer and not the iPod. The iPod is simply a user interface to control the entire system.

The iPod is an extension of the Digital Hub and not the central unit...

why would you need wireless firewire to act as a remote? a bit of overkill, no? besides, no apple system has wireless firewire. they all have 802.11g pretty much. the AE remote will use this standard. No need for huge throughput for a simple task.

wouldn't a $300-$400 remote be a bit expensive?

i still fail to see how an iPod has anything to do with AE. if apple makes a remote, i am sure it will be like an iPod, but it would lack the hard drive. how many times do you drop your remote control per day? think hard drives like that?

i also do not believe the ipod will interface directly with the AE via USB. There is no point for that, when you could simply connect the iPod to the stereo and save yourself $150. Why have the AE sit between the two? Maybe the new iPod will support digital out for direct connection to a stereo...

[formatc]

On the 4G screen, what is the first new thing you see?

http://images.apple.com/ipod/images/indexipod_20040719a.gif

Answer: The "Music" menu.

Music is a "media type".

It is absolutely obvious to me that Apple will be adding new "media types" to the iPod.

Imagine the menu:

Music
Photos
Movies

Of course Photos and Movies would require a dock or cable with video & sound outputs.

Does anyone here have a "pinout" of the 4G connector?

[asif786]

hi,

i dont know if this has been mentioned in this thread before, and it might be completely stupid, but:

suppose time magazine is just a bit pissed off that newsweek got the article- they could just be 'making' the secret features up? just to get back at apple/steve...?

asif

[deepkid]

hmm.... kinda sounds like microsoft's legal defense, a while back "OK, we're a monopoly, but look at all the innovating we've done, look at how much we're the best- so our market share is actually good for computers!"

That is, assuming I remember it correctly. But really, just remember that your opinion about real is your opinion.

I won't really get into talking about Microsoft, but those who are already cognizant of their past actions know that this is not similar. Netscape did not try to reverse engineer IE code for their own benefit. Real is likely committing a few illegal actions by doing this and it reeks of corruption.

And also, of course it's my perspective. That's plainly obvious. However, I did not forget Real's behavior toward the mac over the seven years or so. Remember that they took their sweet time in developing mac os x software.

Chickens are coming home to roost.

[FriarCrazy]

Using an iPod as a remote for Airport Express would be beyond cool...

As an owner of an Airport Express, I have found its only two flaws are its lack of a remote control and its lack of volume control. I hate being at my computer to pick my songs, and then walking over to the reciever to adjust the volume. If my iPod could be used to play songs and control the volume of the Airport Express I would probably cry tears of joy. I can just imagine walking into my dorm room, connecting my wireless firewire adaptor to my iPod, and letting the tunes roll.

Of all the ideas presented in this thread, the remote for AE (wireless or wired) and the home feature have been the most interesting/most feasable sounding. Ive followed this thread since the first post, so Ive kept track of everything.

P.S. If I hear about holding down the play button for 5 seconds one more time I might puke.

[deepkid]

What I am sure about, though, is that blue screen iPods, as well as the people who own them, are much, much cooler. :cool:

I am entirely jealous. Stop it.

[peharri]

I'm not sure whether you're geniunely upset or are trolling, but why in the hell would anyone get upset about Apple blocking out someone like Real?

iTMS already has arguably the best catalog and ease-of-use of the competitors. Why in the world would people care to jump through the dumbest hoops to get content from Real, of all companies? Besides the legal argument of hijacking content, I would be scared to go near "Harmony" based on experiences with the crap they already offer.

This is akin to whining when you already have something like nice steak or halibut before you and manage to get upset with the restaurant because they don't offer White Castle sliders on the menu.

It makes little sense to care about that kind of choice.

I think that's a bizarre comparison. You have certain expectations at restaurants, it's always a temporary experience, and your choices are limited on a technical basis - it's not like the restaurant's making some special effort to prevent you from eating White Castle burgers, they just don't offer them. When Apple refused to help Real, I had little issue with that - I thought it was an unwise move, but it was up to Apple. But now that Real's done the work, Apple is apparently consdering making a special effort, spend money, etc, on legal and technical solutions, to prevent you from having that choice.

Imagine instead buying a TV and finding the only channel it receives is one owned by the TV manufacturer. Imagine that some TV channel finds a way to bypass this, and the TV manufacturer then goes out of its way to try to prevent this from working on the TV you spent that money on. Imagine too, when you complain, some ---- telling you "You're trolling right? Why would anyone want a channel other than NBC? You'd actually want to watch Fox? That'd be like going to Denny's and demanding they sell you a Big Mac."

No, I don't want to watch Fox. But I don't particularly like hardware companies making the choices for me, especially making those decisions after I've bought my supposedly standalone product from them. There is absolutely no reason for Apple to bash Real like this, Real isn't publishing the format and thus undermining the system (though if Apple decides to sue, if I were Real I'd publish the algorithms publically and in the court record the first chance I had), they're just publishing their music in a way compatable with the iPod.

As someone who owns an iPod, I'd like to make the choice of where I get my (legal) music from, rather than have a company whose business relationship with me was terminated the moment they shipped the iPod and charged my credit card (as it should be) make that decision for me. I own my iPod, Apple doesn't any more. If they want to continue doing business with me, they have to act honourably and ethically. Otherwise they're little different from their rivals in Redmond, who are one of the groups I switched to Apple to avoid.

[zpapasmurf]

^^^^

Im gonna have to go ahead and agree with him on that one

[deepkid]

As someone who owns an iPod, I'd like to make the choice of where I get my (legal) music from, rather than have a company whose business relationship with me was terminated the moment they shipped the iPod and charged my credit card (as it should be) make that decision for me. I own my iPod, Apple doesn't any more. If they want to continue doing business with me, they have to act honourably and ethically. Otherwise they're little different from their rivals in Redmond, who are one of the groups I switched to Apple to avoid.

What's being overlooked is that when it comes to licensing, it's up to the owner of the content to determine how it will be exploited. This means that Apple makes the decisions about who/if/when to partner with someone else regarding the type of music downloads that are made available on the iPod, not Real. As a user, you do agree to whatever terms Apple sets for the iPod and iTMS. (You do have the "choice" of not agreeing or using either.)

Of course we don't want Apple to be Napoleonic about it, but I think it's too early in the game to say that they're being unreasonable.

But getting to the point, what Real is doing is technological rape.

"You won't give it to me? Then I'll take it." This is not ethical and the offense starts here.

Think of it this way... if you asked me for a spare key to my condo and I said no and then you proceeded to make a skeleton key to get around my lock and then offered it to anyone else who wanted to gain entry, you'd be in hot water and breaking the law. What has to be determined in the Apple/Real scenario is how this is interpreted with regard to digital content and rights.

I think that Apple will strategically work with others (remember HP, Motorola, Duke?) and I prefer that they do it cautiously in order to maintain an enjoyable user experience.

[peharri]

As for Real, I don't think it's polite to break in when you were told you can't come in. Apple has every right to protect their hardware and software. This allows them to provide the easy of use for their customers that they are so proud of.

Apple isn't protecting their hardware and software. They're preventing usage of my hardware and software. If this was about Real breaking into an Apple facility or hacking into their website, that would be one thing. But actually it's about Real finding a way to, if I chose to, allow me to put Real's music on my iPod quickly, easily, and in a way that doesn't cause problems for the artists they've signed up. You know, on the iPod I bought from Apple. The one that ceased to be Apple's the moment they sold it to me, the moment it arrived at my door after they'd successfully charged my credit card.

Apple, at this point, is not in the equation. It's my iPod, and Real's files. But Apple is deciding that they have the right to intervene anyway. Maybe under some legal loophole they do (though as Real has pointed out, the DMCA specifically allows for the use of reverse engineering to achieve interoperability, so the law appears to me to be unambiguous), but they certainly don't have a moral right to do so. It's NOT their equipment. Their rights to "ownership" stop at being able to make and sell the things.

Imaging if people started buying fewer ipods because they had a hard time with the 'bootleg' Real files and confusing sync software and Apple couldn't do anything for them when they called customer service. (I doubt you'll be able to simply put these files into iTunes and sync to an iPod - if you are already in iTunes, why would you wanna go to Real to buy songs only to import them back to iTunes?)

First of all, lose the prejudicial language. These are not "bootleg" Real files. These are legitimate Real files that buyers are licensed to use. At worst you could say they're "unofficially compatable" or some such language.

If people have problems with Real files, they're likely to blame Real, not Apple, unless, of course, Apple deliberately and obviously does something to prevent them from playing. If Apple releases a firmware update and all the Real files stop playing, then, yeah, I can see people blaming Apple. And chances are, that blame will be correctly placed, and any future sales lost will be entirely Apple's fault, because Apple doesn't have to do that. In the unlikely case that Apple releases a firmware update that harms the ability to play Real files and it's entirely unintentional, Apple would, in my view, still deserve part of the blame for their unwillingness to be remotely cooperative for an obviously good-faith request in the first place.

But the more likely case is that, if it fails accidentally, some files will work and some will not, and people are going to badmouth Real if that happens. Of the handful that wouldn't, those are people who specifically want a player that plays Real's files. Apple certainly will not lose sales because people who wanted a player right from the get-go that plays Real's files decide not to buy an iPod because it does a crappy job.

Additionally, the iPod already has to deal with a multitude of third party products. Apple even sells some of them. How many MP3 rippers are there out there? Has Apple ever proposed the thing be locked down to only play iTunes rips, or be compatable with purely Apple headphones?

Finally, it all strikes me as somewhat irrelevent. Apple's potential for losing sales over something it should have no control over is really not dealt with by pretending it has the god-given right to control everything about already-sold iPods. Perhaps if Apple's genuinely concerned about compatability and some (somewhat unlikely) damage to its reputation, it should do one of the following things:

1. Advise users to avoid Real music.
2. Cooperate with Real and provide a mechanism that both Real and Apple are happy with to load music onto iPods in an uncopybackable way.

You can probably think of other solutions that do not involve legal action and/or moronic firmware updates.

Apple has a great product, that keeps getting better and Real wants to piggyback on Apple's success. That's foul play in my book.

Again, prejudicial language. Belkin's making a small fortune from iPod peripherals too. Is this "foul play" too? What's the difference? That Apple likes one and doesn't like the other? Is that enough to make it foul play? Is my mechanic engaging in "foul play" when he piggybacks on Ford's success? What about software developers? Everything they do can be described as "piggybacking" on the success of some platform developer too. Are they engaging in "foul play"?

Quit it with the prejudicial language. The business practice of providing support and services to buyers of a third party product is well established and there's nothing "foul" about it. This is precisely what Real is doing, and for some reason Apple doesn't like it.

What about Apple preventing a competing business from legitimately selling products to Apple's customers, in an area where they're not even in real competition (the iTMS supposedly isn't an Apple profit center, it exists more to sell iPods rather than vice versa, Apple and Real are largely in competition on the QuickTime vs RealVideo area)?

Microsoft is a monopoly because it made it hard for people in browser and media player markets (or what's left of them) to compete. IPods and iTunes aren't stopping Real or Sony or others from releasing their products and having them be viable options (since they are not tied to a specific operating system like Windows). The fact that so far no one has come close to the iPod isn't Apple's fault. It just shows that when you think different, good things happen.

Real isn't a hardware developer. In any case, you haven't really given a good reason why Apple should be resorting to legal and technical threats to prevent support from a third party like this. Indeed, my reading of this is that Apple's intents are precisely the same as Microsoft's - it recognizes it has a large market share at the moment, and intends to manipulate that into a de-facto monopoly, at least in the short term. Sell a supposedly "open" music player (as it was originally marketed), but require everyone who uses it who wants to use online music systems be limited to Apple's music store.

Which, I guess, suits Apple, because it's going to be hard for iPod users to upgrade to anything other than an iPod if their music came from the iTMS. Thus, a large market share can do little but grow. Urgh. Thankfully I see little chance of them succeeding.

What I want to see is Apple competing on the basis of producing great hardware and software, as they did with iPod, as they're doing with OS X. I don't want to see them become the next Microsoft.

[Raiden]

Whoever said it was just time magazine getting back at newsweek for the ipod cover story might be right.

I think it needs an FM tuner. It would make sense, as they could market the ipod just like they did the whole BMW/ipod thing. Turn the ipod on, throw it into the glove box, and BAM, you got your entire music library streamed via FM onto your radio, controled with the radio knobs and whatnot.

Every car in the last 20 years has a radio, so everyone would be able to use it. So...the ipod works on all computers, all cars...if they threw in the airport express stuff yall were talking about...itd work on all stereos too...

[peharri]

What's being overlooked is that when it comes to licensing, it's up to the owner of the content to determine how it will be exploited. This means that Apple makes the decisions about who/if/when to partner with someone else regarding the type of music downloads that are made available on the iPod, not Real. As a user, you do agree to whatever terms Apple sets for the iPod and iTMS. (You do have the "choice" of not agreeing or using either.)

This isn't about the iTMS (indeed, the whole point is that the iTMS isn't involved at all), it's about a hardware object called an iPod. Now, I know there's software on an iPod, but there's nothing being done by Real at the moment that breaks the rights we'd traditionally associate with copyright holders of software. Specifically, Real isn't going in and copying the firmware. handing over copies to anyone else, or anything like that. They've just made their files interoperable so that they'd play on an iPod.

But getting to the point, what Real is doing is technological rape.

Rape is an evil and violent crime, and is generally considered one of the worst sub-murder crimes in existance. It usually causes decades of psychological harm to the victim. I have friends who have suffered it. I would appreciate you not cheapening the term to make ideological points. If you mean "without consent", say "without consent" and we'll address that, but leave this word at the gate, please.

"You won't give it to me? Then I'll take it." This is not ethical and the offense starts here.

Nothing's being "taken". Real asked that Apple cooperate with them so they could easily make their music playable on the iPod. Apple refused. So Real did the work themselves. To suggest this is an issue of taking without consent is to assume there was anything for Apple to not consent to.

Real's engineers didn't enter Apple's HQ and force Apple workers at gunpoint to hand over the specs. They asked for information and didn't get it so worked it out themselves. You know, this is perfectly normal and happens all the time. Like the guy I just responded to, you seem to be a believer that wrapping something in prejudicial language will be enough to make something seem wrong. But it isn't. People do this kind of working things out all the time. You might want to look at all the "iPod tips and tricks" websites out there for some examples.

Think of it this way... if you asked me for a spare key to my condo and I said no and then you proceeded to make a skeleton key to get around my lock and then offered it to anyone else who wanted to gain entry, you'd be in hot water and breaking the law. What has to be determined in the Apple/Real scenario is how this is interpreted with regard to digital content and rights.

Except it's not Apple's condo, it's MY condo, and I WANT the ability to give Real the key. Apple merely builds the condos.

I think that Apple will strategically work with others (remember HP, Motorola, Duke?) and I prefer that they do it cautiously in order to maintain an enjoyable user experience.
There's working with people and then there's working against them. If Apple had just ignored Real, it would have been one thing. They're making legal and technical threats now, in your hypothetical condo example the builder of the condo is telling the world that if my friend is allowed into my condo, by me, at my request, then he's going to change the locks and get a restraining order.

Is that right? How does that maintain my enjoyable user experience? Even if it helped, would it actually be legitimate in the first place?

Wouldn't it be better for Apple to focus on what it does best - making great hardware and software, rather than focussing their energies on trying to prevent users from doing perfectly legitimate things?

[colmaclean]

For a remote control, you could get a secondhand Sony Ericsson bluetooth mobile phone (if you don't have one already) and the excellent Salling Clicker to control your iTunes.

Obviously Bluetooth doesn't have the same range as Wifi, but this solution is available now...

[Tulse]

Apple isn't protecting their hardware and software. They're preventing usage of my hardware and software....which you agreed to use according to Apple's license, and which is legallyl protected by the DMCA (among other laws).

If this was about Real breaking into an Apple facility or hacking into their website, that would be one thing.Intellectual property is just as "real" as physical property. I find it very weird that folks who are part of the Internet era don't understand that bits are just as much a product as atoms.

But actually it's about Real finding a way to, if I chose to, allow me to put Real's music on my iPod quickly, easily,...although by (likely) violating Apple's legal rights...

and in a way that doesn't cause problems for the artists they've signed up. I wouldn't be sure about that -- I don't know what the terms of Real's (or other other music services) DRM are, but they are likely more restrictive than Apple's. I don't know if transcoding in this way preserves those more restrictive rights -- if not, then the change is not what the artist (or label) agreed to.

You know, on the iPod I bought from Apple. The one that ceased to be Apple's the moment they sold it to me, the moment it arrived at my door after they'd successfully charged my credit card.That's a nice notion, but you and Real both still have legal restrictions on what you can do with the iPod, based on Apple's license and various intellectual property and copyright-related laws. You may not like that situation, and you may think that Apple is being high-handed or acting against the best interest of the company or its customers, but I think it is undeniable that Apple has a plausible legal case against Real.

[manu chao]

What's being overlooked is that when it comes to licensing, it's up to the owner of the content to determine how it will be exploited. This means that Apple makes the decisions about who/if/when to partner with someone else regarding the type of music downloads that are made available on the iPod, not Real. As a user, you do agree to whatever terms Apple sets for the iPod and iTMS. (You do have the "choice" of not agreeing or using either.)

You do agree to the licensing terms when you buy a song on the iTMS, but I would be very surprised if you would have to agree to any sort of licensing terms telling you what kind of music you can listen to on an iPod when you buy one.

To start with the basics:
- AAC is an open standard, everybody is allowed to use it.
- I guess everybody is allowed to modify the AAC file format in a way to add a DRM mechanism to it (Apple did it, and the Dolby Labs did not complain).
- When you buy an iPod you are (or let's say you should be) allowed to play any songs on it, from whoever you obtained them (assuming you obtained them legally).
- Apple is certainly not required to provide support for all file formats (e.g. WMF), but having a wide a choice certainly makes the iPod more appealling.
- You can right now play Fairplay-AACs on as many iPods as you like, in other words the owner of the iPod does not have to be owner of the songs. You can place any Fairplay-AAC on any iPod and it works.

So, why should Real not be allowed to place their own version of DRMed AACs on the iPod (violation of DRM patents notwithstanding)?

They just added a quirk to their DRMed AACs, so that they can be played on iPods as well, and not just with the RealPlayer, by allowing the song to be played even if no DRM control mechanism (as there is in the RealPlayer) is present, as it is the case on the iPod.

Apple could easily break this via technological means, but this would be akin to blocking all MP3s which have been created on a Windows maschine. They could do this, no legal barriers to that but I guess everybody would consider such a thing unfair and unneccessary.

[iMeowbot]

Why would Apple hide features in their iPods or make them only accessible through a firmware upgrade?

Except for bug fixes, all the iPod substantial updates have been in support of new or revised products: DRM for iTMS, menu items for reading flash media and recording, new codec for AirTunes compatibility.
How many people that have an iPod on the windows side will actually upgrade the firmware?
All the ones who want to use whatever new or revised products come along. These new features almost certainly depend on an as-yet-unreleased product or service, otherwise there would be no need to hold back.
And besides, why didn't they make these "secrets" available upon release?
It sure seems to have made a lot of otherwise happy owners of older iPod models say "hey, maybe I should upgrade this time," hasn't it?
I'd say this writer has too big of an imagination and too much time on his hands. :D
I'll wait and see if new features materialize before rushing out to the store :D

[The Cheat]

I think it needs an FM tuner. It would make sense, as they could market the ipod just like they did the whole BMW/ipod thing. Turn the ipod on, throw it into the glove box, and BAM, you got your entire music library streamed via FM onto your radio, controled with the radio knobs and whatnot.

Huh? :confused: First of all there is a difference between having an FM tuner which allows you to listen to the radio, and having an FM transmitter that can play songs through your car's radio. Second, how is your iPod controlled by the radio's knobs? Turning the tuner knob on your car can't control what song your iPod is playing. Third, devides that allow you to transmit from your iPod (or portable cd players, etc.) to your radio have existed for years via 3rd party add-ons.

[silvergunuk]

http://www.blueserker.com/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=185

[rand()]

After a full page of Real vs. Apple IP debate, I return to the "Theory of New Features" with some all-new (I think) totally bogus (I know) theories!

1.) You asked for it, you got it! The new 4G iPod is also a MULTI BUTTON WIRELESS MOUSE! AHH HA HA HA HA HA!!! How does it track motion with no laser or ball you ask? It merely calculates it's position relative to the Jobs' Reality Distortion Field (http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Reality_Distortion_Field.txt&sortOrder=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium)!

Okay, so that was total crap.

2.) When you and three friends hook up your new 4G iPods to a G5 iMac playing the new Doom3, the iPods act as status-display device and a quick weapon-select controller. Now no one need know you don't have any rockets left or are about to be fragged! Info on a private screen, and a quick switch to the Dual (Core) Laser Canons! Soon to be compatible with Everybody's favorite game (http://www.homestarrunner.com/trogdor.html)!

Real crap, and not as funny, either.

3.) Combined with Xgrid technology, the new iPod, when docked, provides the Mac with 3 (Count them, 3!) extra 500MHz G3 processors, greatly enhancing the Folding@Home (http://www.stanford.edu/group/pandegroup/folding/) experience!

Still not as funny, but I worked in the obligatory Folding reference.

4.) And Finally, when attatched to a microphone, the iPod acts as a UNIVERSAL TRANSLATOR!!! Also, iPod Update 3.0.2 will provide Macintosh users with the Klingon Language Extension (http://www.kli.org)! Apple is proud to welcome our new multi-lingual overlords! FINALLY, a REASON for the language packs to be installed by default! Ka'Plah!

Totall off the deep end,
rand()

[joeboy_45101]

On the 4G screen, what is the first new thing you see?

http://images.apple.com/ipod/images/indexipod_20040719a.gif

Answer: The "Music" menu.

Music is a "media type".

It is absolutely obvious to me that Apple will be adding new "media types" to the iPod.

Imagine the menu:

Music
Photos
Movies

Of course Photos and Movies would require a dock or cable with video & sound outputs.

Does anyone here have a "pinout" of the 4G connector?

Does anybody know if the PortalPlayer processor in the 4G iPod can handle H.264/AVC, this might point to the ability to store and play movies from your iPod. But this brings up the point of input and output of any kind of movie or photo, maybe a special dock? Being realistic, I don't think many people would get excited about this. Only a few are disappointed with the lack of Video and Photography features, most people don't care about that and won't care about that. The iPod is not an all-in-one device, those things are too complicated, have horrible image and video resolution, and are rather unneccessary. Do you really think that Steve Jobs, master of the simplistic philosophy, is going to clutter the iPod with a bunch of no-good, complicated features.

[iMeowbot]

Huh? :confused: First of all there is a difference between having an FM tuner which allows you to listen to the radio, and having an FM transmitter that can play songs through your car's radio. Second, how is your iPod controlled by the radio's knobs? Turning the tuner knob on your car can't control what song your iPod is playing.
The upcoming Alpine module, the BMW kit, the ice->link and AUX-POD all allow this functionality (including control from the radio) using a wired interface. there's no reason that link couldn't be established using a dock dongle and a transceiver on the back of the head unit, using some kind of wireless networking rather than broadcast-type FM.

The only real question would be, why would anyone really want this? It still requires the car stereo to be modified, takes away the charging capability, introduces all the interference problems that come with radio transmission, and costs more.

[fBaran]

"Rather, you must reset the iPod and then flip it into Diagnostic Mode (press Select and Menu for about six seconds to reset and, when you see the Apple logo, press Select and Previous to enter Diagnostic Mode)."

If someone ahs already posted this, sorry- I don't read all 100 hundred pages before a post 8).

[nsb3000]

Have you ever used RealPlayer? The main draw to the iPod is that it's easy to use, if you start having third party plugins, and backwards engineered hacks there is no way that Apple can ensure you will have a good user experience.

Have you ever used real player? It is a fine, fully cocoa Mac OS X app that is easy to use. "Ensure a good user experience" should never come at the price of user choice. Apple needs to open up the ipod to third parties so that they are not forced to reverse engineer it…that would be the right step towards a good user experience.

[iMeowbot]

http://www.blueserker.com/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=185
Looks fake. The ad carries the "Over a million sold." tagline from the 3G campaign, and it's closing in on four million now. The wheel position is still the lower 3G style too.

[gropo]

Looks fake.
And then consider that the "cut loose..." line isn't even REMOTELY typeset in Myriad demi....
And that Placing the line in the direct center of the negative space is something that Chiat/Day would NEVER do.

[silvergunuk]

Yeah I thought so too. The David Hasselhoff line on the right made me wonder

[guifa]

And then consider that the "cut loose..." line isn't even REMOTELY typeset in Myriad demi....
And that Placing the line in the direct center of the negative space is something that Chiat/Day would NEVER do.
And the whole blurred finger where the wire would be. The edges are very sharp except right around the finger. The website's "the image was IM'ed to a family member of someone working in an Asian PR firm ... another thing that Japan only gets" line is super suspect. If it's a Japanese/Asian only product ... why is the advertisement in English? Apple has been very big on translating things to Japanese (even some developers tools documents are available in it).

[svenas1]

"Ensure a good user experience" should never come at the price of user choice.

I believe the opposite is true. Good user experience will invariably come at the expense of some user choice. That is what consistency is about, what human interface guidelines are about. The contrary approach will inevitably lead to a linux-like situation. So Apple indeed has to balance useability against choice and options.

[mnoya]

I was just looking into this. I beleive that Steve J has it correct in that most people do not want to look at a small screen to view their movies. When was the last time you went anywhere and there were not any RCA jacks to hook into? I would argue that the greater hard disk size and "untold new secrets" might include the ability to purchase movies through the store and view them on your computer or transfer them to your iPod. So if you are traveling you could keep what? 5k songs and 3 or 4 movies? you get to your hotel, friends or grandmas, jack in and you are watching your movie. In my opinion that is what a digital 'hub' is meant to do. The 3g ipod does not like the Apple video out cable for my powerbook, my 4g is being replaced do to blemishes and should be here within the day.

thoughts?

Mark

But this brings up the point of input and output of any kind of movie or photo, maybe a special dock? Being realistic, I don't think many people would get excited about this. Only a few are disappointed with the lack of Video and Photography features, most people don't care about that and won't care about that. The iPod is not an all-in-one device, those things are too complicated, have horrible image and video resolution, and are rather unneccessary. Do you really think that Steve Jobs, master of the simplistic philosophy, is going to clutter the iPod with a bunch of no-good, complicated features.

[iomar]

Well, I should have gone to an Apple Store and purchased my new iPod. I ordered it from a online catalog and it has been over a weekend and I am still in the back order. I don't know when I am going to get it.. I can't wait. I am already thinking of so many uses I can get out it. It is great!

[deepkid]

This isn't about the iTMS (indeed, the whole point is that the iTMS isn't involved at all), it's about a hardware object called an iPod. Now, I know there's software on an iPod, but there's nothing being done by Real at the moment that breaks the rights we'd traditionally associate with copyright holders of software. Specifically, Real isn't going in and copying the firmware. handing over copies to anyone else, or anything like that. They've just made their files interoperable so that they'd play on an iPod.

Well, at this point we don't know for absolute certainty how Real makes Harmony work. We do know that through their acknowledgement, that they are trying to get around Apple's refusal in order to force their music download content onto the iPod. It's a hostile and likely illegal action.

Have you considered the possibility that in order to get the paranoid major labels to even go along with this music download venture, Apple may have made committments to adhere to strict iTMS->iPod rules? We aren't privy to the discussions nor the contracts, so it is likely that Apple has to take action in order to honor the agreements with the labels.



Rape is an evil and violent crime, and is generally considered one of the worst sub-murder crimes in existance. It usually causes decades of psychological harm to the victim. I have friends who have suffered it. I would appreciate you not cheapening the term to make ideological points. If you mean "without consent", say "without consent" and we'll address that, but leave this word at the gate, please.

No offense, but I'm perfectly capable of selecting my own vocabularly and I don't think my choice of description is cheap at all -- it's entirely relevant to Real's actions. They plan to force their music downloads onto the iPod without permission. That's the bottom line. My preference to call it technological rape wasn't personal, so please don't turn it into a dramatic affair.

Also, there's a difference between the iPod owner buying songs from Real and ripping them back to their own iPod. Nothing stops ya. However, we're talking about what's considered unethical behavior on the part of Real towards Apple. Apple is not obligated to cannibalize their own iTMS sales just because Real asked them to. It's just silly for a company like Real to leech off of the "customer choice" mantra when their track record is just the opposite.

As a shareholder, I think it's silly to consider Real because they bring nothing to the table. It would be a win for Real and likely a lose for Apple considering the horrible user experience Real has provided. I'm not in favor of it.



Nothing's being "taken". Real asked that Apple cooperate with them so they could easily make their music playable on the iPod. Apple refused. So Real did the work themselves. To suggest this is an issue of taking without consent is to assume there was anything for Apple to not consent to.

You are sugarcoating this and making excuses for Real. The mere fact that they seeked permission in the first place should make it plain enough that what they're doing now is unethical. See it for what it is.


Real's engineers didn't enter Apple's HQ and force Apple workers at gunpoint to hand over the specs. They asked for information and didn't get it so worked it out themselves. You know, this is perfectly normal and happens all the time. Like the guy I just responded to, you seem to be a believer that wrapping something in prejudicial language will be enough to make something seem wrong. But it isn't. People do this kind of working things out all the time. You might want to look at all the "iPod tips and tricks" websites out there for some examples.

Just because someone disagrees with you, that's prejudiced? Hah, let me check with thesaurus.com on that one... wasn't aware that they were synonymous. Anyway, what you continually fail to acknowlege is that Real operates a music download company that competes with Apple. Both of these companies have an obligation to their shareholders and to the record labels. Apple has the right to protect its intellectual property. Real does not have the right to jeopardize Apple's intellectual property. Again, we shall see how this shakes out in the near future, possibly in court.


Except it's not Apple's condo, it's MY condo, and I WANT the ability to give Real the key. Apple merely builds the condos.

Bzzt. Wrong. You need to read and comprehend the user agreements.


There's working with people and then there's working against them. If Apple had just ignored Real, it would have been one thing. They're making legal and technical threats now, in your hypothetical condo example the builder of the condo is telling the world that if my friend is allowed into my condo, by me, at my request, then he's going to change the locks and get a restraining order.


Apple's intellectual property is the condo in my example. Real does not have any say so in it. It's simple, really.

At any rate, we really are off topic so to oblige, I'll toss in a comment about the 4G iPod to make it somewhat relevant...

It would be nice to be able to store small video files on it and have them easily played back through a dock or some other device to a television/vcr/tivo/etc or projector. I can think of many uses for that, but wonder if current HD sizes would suffice for the serious collector. This would likely be a feature of an entirely different digital hub device and perhaps not the iPod.

Have a great weekend.