Would you be upset........

[SLC Flyfishing]

If you found out that the Homeless had H1N1 vaccine readily available to them and didn't have to wait in lines for it, but instead had the vaccine delivered to them on the streets etc?

I'm interested in people's initial reaction to this idea. Feel free to discuss why, and I'll explain myself after some initial discussion has taken place.

SLC

[VenusianSky]

Is this a hypothetical question?

[rdowns]

I can see both sides.

Homeless are a high risk group so vaccinating them males sense. On the other hand, you hear reports of pregnant women and children (also high risk groups) not being able to get it. If I had to make a choice, I'd probably choose the latter group.

What really pisses me off is reading that Wall Street firms were getting supplies of the vaccine while hospitals 6 blocks away had none.

[harperjones99]

If you found out that the Homeless had H1N1 vaccine readily available to them and didn't have to wait in lines for it, but instead had the vaccine brought to them?

I'm interested in people's initial reaction to this idea. Feel free to discuss why, and I'll explain myself after some initial discussion has taken place.

SLC

Not in the least. More vulnerable populations should be dealt with first. They have high risk due to close contact with lots of areas of poor hygiene.

[SLC Flyfishing]

Is this a hypothetical question?

Maybe yes maybe no, does it matter. I want your up front oppinion. Imagine it wasn't, how would you feel?

SLC

[scottness]

Yes, I'd be upset. If I'm the one forced to pay for it (with my taxes), it should be delivered to ME as well.

[Eraserhead]

Sounds like a good idea, they are a high risk group. Treating high risk groups helps everyone, and the homeless also are far less likely than other high risk groups (like pregnant women) to be proactive about their welfare.

[PlaceofDis]

they're at risk of helping spread the virus even more due to the lack of proper sanitation: so no. however i think priority should be medical personnel first and other high risk groups.

[Zombie Acorn]

I wouldn't really care, I don't particularly want the vaccine for myself anyways.

[yg17]

I wouldn't care because I have no desire to get the H1N1 vaccine myself. But they are a high risk group so they should be getting it.

[VenusianSky]

Maybe yes maybe no, does it matter. I want your up front oppinion. Imagine it wasn't, how would you feel?

SLC

I guess I wouldn't care. Though, it doesn't upset me that, as rdowns mentioned, Wall street is getting it before hospitals either.

[Gelfin]

Not at all. In fact, I'd prefer it. You're talking about a very high-risk group that could not get vaccinations at all any other way, contact a LOT of other people throughout the day, and don't stop panhandling for the day just because they've caught a sniffle. They're natural-born carriers. Vaccinating them could be the difference between a manageable outbreak and a public health disaster.

For those who feel better looking down on the homeless, it's not that different from using public funds to control mosquito populations in standing bodies of water. It benefits you, even if your name isn't on the deed.

[SLC Flyfishing]

It doesn't bother anyone that to get a shot they have to wait in long lines for hours at a time (Here in Salt Lake City it's like Black Friday, No Lie!), and even then maybe not even get one. All the while, the homeless guy gets one while he has lunch?

That wouldn't piss anyone off?

SLC

[Ugg]

I think that vulnerable sections of society should definitely be first in line to receive the vaccine. Period.

[scottness]

For those who feel better looking down on the homeless,

I'd like to be treated equally, not better. If they are getting deliveries at my expense, so should I.


it's not that different from using public funds to control mosquito populations in standing bodies of water. It benefits you, even if your name isn't on the deed.

Excellent point.

[jmann]

I am personally not getting the vaccine, but I would hope that it would only be exclusive for them for a short period of time before being made readily available to everyone else starting with the groups that need it most (like pregos and children). Everyone who wants it though should be able to get it without a problem. I don't see why there has to be a shortage of supply when it comes to things like this. I mean don't these vaccine producers know that it is going to be in very high demand. Maybe they can't produce the medicine fast enough?

[scottness]

It doesn't bother anyone that to get a shot they have to wait in long lines for hours at a time (Here in Salt Lake City it's like Black Friday, No Lie!), and even then maybe not even get one. All the while, the homeless guy gets one while he has lunch?

That wouldn't piss anyone off?

SLC

Yes, I find that very irritating. I'm for equal treatment--even if I'm the one paying for it.

[Zombie Acorn]

It doesn't bother anyone that to get a shot they have to wait in long lines for hours at a time (Here in Salt Lake City it's like Black Friday, No Lie!), and even then maybe not even get one. All the while, the homeless guy gets one while he has lunch?

That wouldn't piss anyone off?

SLC

You probably put yourself more at risk standing in line for hours with other people than if you just didn't get the shot at all. :D

[Gelfin]

I am personally not getting the vaccine, but I would hope that it would only be exclusive for them for a short period of time before being made readily available to everyone else starting with the groups that need it most (like pregos and children). Everyone who wants it though should be able to get it without a problem. I don't see why there has to be a shortage of supply when it comes to things like this. I mean don't these vaccine producers know that it is going to be in very high demand. Maybe they can't produce the medicine fast enough?

H1N1 is a very fast-spreading flu variant because there is little natural immunity in the population (due to the dissimilarity of this virus to most modern seasonal strains). The H1N1 problem emerged after the seasonal vaccine was already in production, or it would have been included in the regular seasonal vaccine. The manufacturers had to play catch-up in isolating and manufacturing a vaccine, and moreover must satisfy increased demand as a result of the attention this strain has generated. The shortage is not surprising, but from recent reports seems to be improving.

[ucfgrad93]

I wouldn't really care, I don't particularly want the vaccine for myself anyways.

Same here.

[scottness]

You probably put yourself more at risk standing in line for hours with other people than if you just didn't get the shot at all. :D

Maybe I'd be better off if I hung out with the homeless on vaccine day. :D

[Zombie Acorn]

Maybe I'd be better off if I hung out with the homeless on vaccine day. :D

Make sure to get a flashy and creative sign so they know you are one of their kind. The last time someone tried to infiltrate their ranks it didn't go so well. :( Macrumors lost a brave soul that day.

[MacNut]

Is the homeless person allowed to turn down the shot or are they just randomly giving it to them without their consent?

I can see both sides of the argument that they are going to be carrying the disease around and hitting a bunch of people. But I don't think they should be the first to get it, maybe if there is left over supply.

[Zombie Acorn]

Is the homeless person allowed to turn down the shot or are they just randomly giving it to them without their consent?

I can see both sides of the argument that they are going to be carrying the disease around and hitting a bunch of people. But I don't think they should be the first to get it, maybe if there is left over supply.

If they are going to do it without consent I would have to change my vote to "yes"

[.Andy]

Is the homeless person allowed to turn down the shot or are they just randomly giving it to them without their consent.
The legal requirement of informed consent stands for everyone.

[BoyBach]

So far it looks like the OPs hope of whipping up some outrage as died on its arse. SLC, consider my hat doffed in your direction!

Giving priority to vaccinating those who potentially pose a higher risk of transferring a communicable disease is an entirely sensible policy.

[brad.c]

It doesn't bother anyone that to get a shot they have to wait in long lines for hours at a time (Here in Salt Lake City it's like Black Friday, No Lie!), and even then maybe not even get one. All the while, the homeless guy gets one while he has lunch?

That wouldn't piss anyone off?

SLC

Is it that they don't have to wait in a line, that they may be identified as a priority group, or they don't have to pay that's put you up in arms... hypothetically?

[.Andy]

It doesn't bother anyone that to get a shot they have to wait in long lines for hours at a time (Here in Salt Lake City it's like Black Friday, No Lie!), and even then maybe not even get one. All the while, the homeless guy gets one while he has lunch?

That wouldn't piss anyone off?

SLC
The solution is for you to become homeless so you can revel in the luxury and first class service afforded to those living on the street.

[scottness]

The solution is for you to become homeless so you can revel in the luxury and first class service afforded to those living on the street.

I'd do it for a day.

[MacNut]

Is it that they don't have to wait in a line, that they may be identified as a priority group, or they don't have to pay that's put you up in arms... hypothetically?I think its the fact that there are a lot of people in need of the vaccine that we are in short supply of that have to wait until after a homeless person gets it.

[.Andy]

I'd do it for a day.
That's just a regular outing :D!

[brad.c]

I think its the fact that there are a lot of people in need of the vaccine that we are in short supply of that have to wait until after a homeless person gets it.

If prioritization is the issue, then identifying any one group as falsely advantageous is a petty exercise. According to health authorities in my location (http://www.toronto.ca/health/cdc/h1n1/vaccine_eligibility.htm#chronic), high risk groups involve people who are obese, diabetic or have alcoholic liver disease. I wouldn't advocate eliminating them from the head of the line. Why the homeless?

EDIT: It seems the issue is of supply... in Canada, only one pharmaceutical company has the rights to produce. Should this exclusivity be under the spotlight more so than the recipient list?

[.Andy]

Why the homeless?
I'm pretty sure they are seen as an affront to capitalism and the simplistic ideology that everyone can succeed if only they work hard enough. Therefore the homeless are seen as lazy and 100% responsible for their own situation despite the myriad of reasons they might have for being on the streets (mental health issues being one of the greatest). Ergo the idea that they are getting something more easily than upright "successful" americans is unfair. Ridiculous reasoning but hard to shake for some. Or perhaps I'm completely and utterly wrong and there will be a more sophisticated explanation forthcoming....

[SLC Flyfishing]

Is it that they don't have to wait in a line, that they may be identified as a priority group, or they don't have to pay that's put you up in arms... hypothetically?

I'm not up in arms at all, quite the opposite in fact, I've been the one giving the vaccine to the homeless, worked quite hard at it actually. Now a national news program wants to highlight me and my team's work, but we're somewhat concerned that it could be a bad move. People might be upset hearing how we've quickly vaccinated the entire homeless population while they've waited in long lines and struggled to find vaccines. I want to give all the volunteers who've helped me some real recognition, and I want to show how well this has all worked out, largely because of good teamwork and planning. But we don't want any more resentment to fall on the homeless population on our city, so we're looking for ideas on how we can present it.

We had a huge elaborate plan to isolate the many sick homeless people we expected to get this season, I had over a hundred volunteer medical staff from my University lined up to operate a small hospital type facility, and I got all the licensing lined up to do it. But as a result of our vaccination efforts, we haven't had to implement the isolation plan.

We've only had 5 cases all season, most very mild and perhaps not even actual H1N1. It's amazing what vaccinating well over 80% of the population will do!

So how should we spin it? Or should we just refuse the story?


SLC

[.Andy]

I'm not up in arms at all, quite the opposite in fact, I've been the one giving the vaccine to the homeless, worked quite hard at it actually. Now a national news program wants to highlight me and my team's work, but we're somewhat concerned that it could be a bad move. People might be upset hearing how we've quickly vaccinated the entire homeless population while they've waited in long lines and struggled to find vaccines. I want to give all the volunteers who've helped me some real recognition, and I want to show how well this has all worked out, largely because of good teamwork and planning. But we don't want any more resentment to fall on the homeless population on our city, so we're looking for ideas on how we can present it.

We had a huge elaborate plan to isolate the many sick homeless people we expected to get this season, I had over a hundred volunteer medical staff from my University lined up to operate a small hospital type facility, and I got all the licensing lined up to do it. But as a result of our vaccination efforts, we haven't had to implement the isolation plan.

We've only had 5 cases all season, most very mild and perhaps not even actual H1N1. It's amazing what vaccinating well over 80% of the population will do!

So how should we spin it? Or should we just refuse the story?


SLC
Do the story! It's awesome work SLC :). You deserve some recognition and the outcome deserves some publicity. Just be sure to highlight the need for vaccination amongst their population. You can never be sure what the spin is that the news program will put on it though :(.

[jmann]

So how should we spin it? Or should we just refuse the story?


SLC

Do it. It has already been done. People can take it how they want. Did you do this through the U?

[SLC Flyfishing]

Do it. It has already been done. People can take it how they want. Did you do this through the U?

I'm doing a fellowship through the Bennion Center at the U, I got put in charge of all of this as a result.

I've got to convince our clinic's PR director, but I'd like to do the story. We'll see what happens. It's CBS that wants to do the story, or so I'm told.

[SLC Flyfishing]

Do it. It has already been done. People can take it how they want. Did you do this through the U?

I'm doing a fellowship through the Bennion Center at the U, I got put in charge of all of this as a result. I had to find the volunteers and secure the vaccine etc.

I've got to convince our clinic's PR director, but I'd like to do the story. We'll see what happens. It's CBS that wants to do the story, or so I'm told.

[brad.c]

I'm not up in arms at all, quite the opposite in fact

.. amazing story..


So how should we spin it? Or should we just refuse the story?


SLC

Wow. I'm not sure if you shaped my reaction with the "That wouldn't piss anyone off?" post intentionally, but it certainly made me expect the typical indignation that is playing itself out in the healthcare debates. Kudos for your humanity. :)

Considering how much bad press I've seen over distribution of the vaccine, you would think that a story of selflessness and efficiency would be what the doctor ordered. Problem is, it would end up being spun as a partisan case study, and not benefit anybody who needs it.

[jmann]

I'm doing a fellowship through the Bennion Center at the U, I got put in charge of all of this as a result. I had to find the volunteers and secure the vaccine etc.

I've got to convince our clinic's PR director, but I'd like to do the story. We'll see what happens. It's CBS that wants to do the story, or so I'm told.

That is great! I love some of the stuff that the U does. :) Bravo. Keep us updated, and give us a link if/when it gets on TV!

[leekohler]

Do the story, SLC. I think it's great what you're doing.

[drewsof07]

Well I'm currently working on clinic hours for my bachelor's and haven't been officially working for the past few months. I was told that students are not considered a "high risk" group among health providers :rolleyes:

We do as much "direct patient contact" as anyone else. it's bull. If the homeless were getting the shot before me, I would be very upset.

[harperjones99]

Well I'm currently working on clinic hours for my bachelor's and haven't been officially working for the past few months. I was told that students are not considered a "high risk" group among health providers :rolleyes:

We do as much "direct patient contact" as anyone else. it's bull. If the homeless were getting the shot before me, I would be very upset.

Really? You think you deserve it more? Sounds like you are both in higher risk groups. But I don't get your indignation.

[Burnsey]

I dont believe in vaccines so I couldn't care less.

[drewsof07]

Really? You think you deserve it more? Sounds like you are both in higher risk groups. But I don't get your indignation.

To me, it's not an issue of "deserving" it more, I think I am at a higher risk of passing it between patients. I have their well-being to look after first, and my own second.

If i were just another face on the street and not in healthcare, then I wouldn't feel any urgency for protecting myself over the homeless.

[harperjones99]

To me, it's not an issue of "deserving" it more, I think I am at a higher risk of passing it between patients. I have their well-being to look after first, and my own second.

If i were just another face on the street and not in healthcare, then I wouldn't feel any urgency for protecting myself over the homeless.

I think you are both about even...homeless people come into contact with a lot of sick and weak and ill individuals so I don't think you are higher up on the needs list.

[Iscariot]

That wouldn't piss anyone off?

Don't you hate paaaants?

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/object/621/88/n2204920024_27221.jpg

[Ttownbeast]

I've never had a flu shot come to think of it I haven't been to a doctor regularly since I was 10, I'm doing pretty good without it

[hulugu]

I'm not up in arms at all, quite the opposite in fact, I've been the one giving the vaccine to the homeless, worked quite hard at it actually. Now a national news program wants to highlight me and my team's work, but we're somewhat concerned that it could be a bad move. People might be upset hearing how we've quickly vaccinated the entire homeless population while they've waited in long lines and struggled to find vaccines. I want to give all the volunteers who've helped me some real recognition, and I want to show how well this has all worked out, largely because of good teamwork and planning. But we don't want any more resentment to fall on the homeless population on our city, so we're looking for ideas on how we can present it.

We had a huge elaborate plan to isolate the many sick homeless people we expected to get this season, I had over a hundred volunteer medical staff from my University lined up to operate a small hospital type facility, and I got all the licensing lined up to do it. But as a result of our vaccination efforts, we haven't had to implement the isolation plan.

We've only had 5 cases all season, most very mild and perhaps not even actual H1N1. It's amazing what vaccinating well over 80% of the population will do!

So how should we spin it? Or should we just refuse the story?


SLC

I think you should do the story and damn those who can't see how hard you worked, how many volunteers you had, and how successful you've been at putting it all together.

No amount of spin or reason will keep everyone happy, but I think you can state this as a public health case and an effective use of time and resources. Make sure they highlight the public benefit and the personal stories of some of the homeless you've treated.

Hope your reporter/producer team treats you well. I'm curious if there's a similar program here in Tucson.

[drewsof07]

I think you are both about even...homeless people come into contact with a lot of sick and weak and ill individuals so I don't think you are higher up on the needs list.

The difference is the homeless person has passed it to people on the street, whereas my clients are often immunosuppressed and chronically ill, those named more susceptible to all types of flu. Not to mention they are paying hospitals to make them well, not make them sicker...
So, whatever you think. :rolleyes:

[harperjones99]

The difference is the homeless person has passed it to people on the street, whereas my clients are often immunosuppressed and chronically ill, those named more susceptible to all types of flu. Not to mention they are paying hospitals to make them well, not make them sicker...
So, whatever you think. :rolleyes:

The homeless people have all the same medical challenges and are not in a hospital where care is available...they are at higher risk. THAT's what I think

[SLC Flyfishing]

The difference is the homeless person has passed it to people on the street, whereas my clients are often immunosuppressed and chronically ill, those named more susceptible to all types of flu. Not to mention they are paying hospitals to make them well, not make them sicker...
So, whatever you think. :rolleyes:

Let me tell you something Drewsof07, my clients (the homeless) are very often immunosupressed, and chronically ill. We weren't able to get very far with this vaccination campaign at first because 60-70% of the people we approached had some sort of chronic illness that made them innelligible for taking the live attenuated form of the vaccine (which was about 90% of what we were given at first). Once we got it worked out witht the health department to send us more inactivated vaccine, we made a lot of progress.

Here at my clinic, in the past 3 weeks I've vaccinated 5 people that I can remember who were HIV positive, too many people with emphysema/COPD to count, probably hundreds of diabetics and asthmatics, and a large number of Hep C patients. These people are all chronically ill. In many cases, their illnesses contribute laregely to their difficulty conquering homelessness. These people are also unlikely to know about getting vaccinated at the local health department, and even less likely to do so if they did know. We had to go to them if we wanted to fight this virus among these people.

My line of thinking in vaccinating so heavily was that ultimately I could save the tax payer conceivably hundreds of thousands of dollars in unpaid ED and ICU bills by preventing H1N1 among the homeless. Along with the thought that they would spread the illness on public transit and in libraries etc where they congregate during the day. If one guy with Emphysema, or some other comorbidity got severely ill and developed a nasty case of pneumonia and ended up in the ICU for a few weeks, the costs of that care would dwarf the cost of all the vaccine I've delivered, and probably a modest salary for the volunteers I used to get all this done. It could probably cost more than the entire plan I developed but didn't have to implement because of the vaccine, and that plan was over $100,000 in costs. I think that the cost of the vaccine to the taxpayer was well worth it in this case, as was the extremely small portion of the overall state supply that we used in doing it.

I'm going to push for the story, and if and when it does happen I'll post a link or a date and time for everyone to see if they like.

SLC

[awmazz]

It doesn't bother anyone that to get a shot they have to wait in long lines for hours at a time (Here in Salt Lake City it's like Black Friday, No Lie!), and even then maybe not even get one. All the while, the homeless guy gets one while he has lunch?

That wouldn't piss anyone off?

SLC

Homeless people aren't likely to line up for an injection even if it's free. So the only way to get the magic elixir into them to contain any possible city-wide outbreak before it happens is to take it to them via homeless-delivery (like that? I just made it up. :)). It's called being practical. You, you can line up, because you want to and will, or are able to isolate yourself if necessary if you don't.

Edit - I didn't read past page 1 before answering your question. I see you were just playing devil's advocate to gauge peoples' reactions. Keep up the good work. Like I said, it's called being practical.

[scottness]

If you found out that the Homeless had H1N1 vaccine readily available to them and didn't have to wait in lines for it, but instead had the vaccine delivered to them on the streets etc?

I'm interested in people's initial reaction to this idea. Feel free to discuss why, and I'll explain myself after some initial discussion has taken place.

SLC

My initial reaction was "Yes, I'd be upset". After reading the more thoughtful comments here and letting it sink in over night, I now appreciate what you're doing. Keep up the good work!

I'd change my vote on the poll if I could.

[Tesselator]

"No." and "Why should I care" are identical responses to this question. You realize that right?

[Bennieboy©]

couldnt give a monkeys to be perfectly honest, what does this vaccine cover?

[synth3tik]

I have no problems with the homeless. Homelessness yes, but not the homeless themselves. I also take up issue with the flu vaccine.

We have created an environment where our bodies can not deal with illness and we constantly need anti-bionics and vaccines, and things of the nature.

[Ttownbeast]

lets be proactive with the homeless then.....simple solution since we cannot get them to wait in lines lets arm every government official with tranquilizer guns and darts filled with the H1N1 vaccine and go out for target practice :D

[.Andy]

We have created an environment where our bodies can not deal with illness and we constantly need anti-bionics and vaccines, and things of the nature.
Or another way to look at it is that antibiotics and vaccines have increased the capacity of humans to cope with illness and eliminated much morbidity and premature death that used to exist in the world.

[Ugg]

Or another way to look at it is that antibiotics and vaccines have increased the capacity of humans to cope with illness and eliminated much morbidity and premature death in the world.

That's very true but it's a neverending game and there's really no guarantee that we're going to win it. The result is already antibiotic resistant bacteria.

Of course it's too late to stop but our constant manipulation of bacteria only ups the ante.

[.Andy]

That's very true but it's a neverending game and there's really no guarantee that we're going to win it. The result is already antibiotic resistant bacteria.
This is indeed a problem. Although we know how antibiotics work and are constantly coming up with new ones to add to our arsenal. Antibiotic prescribing has also changed significantly decreasing the chances that bacteria will develop resistance. I have every faith in medical science to stay one step ahead. Antibiotics have unambiguously been an amazing medical science breakthrough.

Of course it's too late to stop but our constant manipulation of bacteria only ups the ante.
What exactly do you mean by "manipulation"?

[Iscariot]

Or another way to look at it is that antibiotics and vaccines have increased the capacity of humans to cope with illness and eliminated much morbidity and premature death that used to exist in the world.

Hey man, I was perfectly happy when half my kids would die by five and I would keel over from an easily preventable condition at 30.

In fact, that's why I drink!

[Ugg]

What exactly do you mean by "manipulation"?

People not taking full courses of antibiotics, antibiotics given prophylactically to chickens, pigs and cattle, over prescribing of antibiotics by doctors, and any other scenarios I might have missed.

Whether we do it intentionally or not isn't that important.

I've brought this up before, but a good read is Michael Pollan's book The Botany of Desire (http://www.amazon.com/Botany-Desire-Plants-Eye-View-World/dp/0375760393) Just as Pollan points out that Marijuana has gotten a huge genetic boost since the "War On Drugs" was declared, so has bacteria since the invention of antibiotics.

By declaring war, unless we can totally annihilate our opponent like polio, they only grow stronger. Of course, we can't destroy all bacteria as it's necessary to human life, but since we can't, antibiotics only strengthen the little buggers.

[Macky-Mac]

Hey man, I was perfectly happy when half my kids would die by five and I would keel over from an easily preventable condition at 30.

In fact, that's why I drink!

it's always nice to have an extra reason to drink......especially when these socialists are giving away free stuff to lazy homeless types who are probably illegal aliens who never worked for anything and are causing real americans to die or marry homos and pay more taxes!!! :eek:

:rolleyes: or something like that

[nbs2]

I think you are both about even...homeless people come into contact with a lot of sick and weak and ill individuals so I don't think you are higher up on the needs list.

That's my issue. Even is even, not priority for one versus another. My 2.5 yo wasn't eligible as part of the "around infants" group even though we have one that is due early Dec. We managed to get her in once the community vaccinations opened up a little, but that still required a couple weeks of franticly dialing in to a hotline like we were trying to win concert tickets from a radio station. I still haven't been vaccinated since I am at work during the program hours. Our doctor doesn't have any in stock.

While high-risk groups should be vaccinated, it would be preferrable to see all high-risk groups treated equally. After all, if this is a personal protection issue, shouldn't all high-risk folks merit protection? And if this is a public protection issue - don't all the other kids that she goes to school with merit protection?

Take the vaccination to the homeless, but also take it to daycare centers (preplanned so that parents can submit consent forms in advance) and ensure that ob/gyn practices are well stocked to accomodate mothers and fathers who will be in the hospital (with sick/weak folks and newborns) when it comes time to deliver. That's all.

[Iscariot]

it's always nice to have an extra reason to drink......especially when these socialists are giving away free stuff to lazy homeless types who are probably illegal aliens who never worked for anything and are causing real americans to die or marry homos and pay more taxes!!! :eek:

:rolleyes: or something like that

Real red blooded Americans get the flu because it puts hair on their chest.

[iBlue]

I'm not up in arms at all, quite the opposite in fact, I've been the one giving the vaccine to the homeless, worked quite hard at it actually. Now a national news program wants to highlight me and my team's work, but we're somewhat concerned that it could be a bad move. People might be upset hearing how we've quickly vaccinated the entire homeless population while they've waited in long lines and struggled to find vaccines. I want to give all the volunteers who've helped me some real recognition, and I want to show how well this has all worked out, largely because of good teamwork and planning. But we don't want any more resentment to fall on the homeless population on our city, so we're looking for ideas on how we can present it.

We had a huge elaborate plan to isolate the many sick homeless people we expected to get this season, I had over a hundred volunteer medical staff from my University lined up to operate a small hospital type facility, and I got all the licensing lined up to do it. But as a result of our vaccination efforts, we haven't had to implement the isolation plan.

We've only had 5 cases all season, most very mild and perhaps not even actual H1N1. It's amazing what vaccinating well over 80% of the population will do!

So how should we spin it? Or should we just refuse the story?

That's fantastic! I'm really glad (after reading the below post) that you're going to go ahead with the story. There are going to be people with raging entitlement complexes who become angry about it but there's nothing you can do about them really.

Let me tell you something Drewsof07, my clients (the homeless) are very often immunosupressed, and chronically ill. We weren't able to get very far with this vaccination campaign at first because 60-70% of the people we approached had some sort of chronic illness that made them innelligible for taking the live attenuated form of the vaccine (which was about 90% of what we were given at first). Once we got it worked out witht the health department to send us more inactivated vaccine, we made a lot of progress.

Here at my clinic, in the past 3 weeks I've vaccinated 5 people that I can remember who were HIV positive, too many people with emphysema/COPD to count, probably hundreds of diabetics and asthmatics, and a large number of Hep C patients. These people are all chronically ill. In many cases, their illnesses contribute laregely to their difficulty conquering homelessness. These people are also unlikely to know about getting vaccinated at the local health department, and even less likely to do so if they did know. We had to go to them if we wanted to fight this virus among these people.

My line of thinking in vaccinating so heavily was that ultimately I could save the tax payer conceivably hundreds of thousands of dollars in unpaid ED and ICU bills by preventing H1N1 among the homeless. Along with the thought that they would spread the illness on public transit and in libraries etc where they congregate during the day. If one guy with Emphysema, or some other comorbidity got severely ill and developed a nasty case of pneumonia and ended up in the ICU for a few weeks, the costs of that care would dwarf the cost of all the vaccine I've delivered, and probably a modest salary for the volunteers I used to get all this done. It could probably cost more than the entire plan I developed but didn't have to implement because of the vaccine, and that plan was over $100,000 in costs. I think that the cost of the vaccine to the taxpayer was well worth it in this case, as was the extremely small portion of the overall state supply that we used in doing it.

I'm going to push for the story, and if and when it does happen I'll post a link or a date and time for everyone to see if they like.

I think your line of thinking on this is spot on. And if you're looking for a way to spin the story to lessen the "why them and not me?" outrage, that might just be the way to do it.

[SLC Flyfishing]

That's fantastic! I'm really glad (after reading the below post) that you're going to go ahead with the story. There are going to be people with raging entitlement complexes who become angry about it but there's nothing you can do about them really.



I think your line of thinking on this is spot on. And if you're looking for a way to spin the story to lessen the "why them and not me?" outrage, that might just be the way to do it.

As a numbers update, we have used a small portion of the state's vaccine supply indeed. A total of just over 3,000 when the state has received almost 450,000 doses so far.

SLC