POLL: Does Your 27 inch iMac Have a Screen Problem? [Archive]

fobfob

Nov 18, 2009, 07:33 PM

Dust?

Firstly, I have two spots like this. There's something stuck to the inner side of the glass. They are only small and could be mistaken for stuck pixels at first.

Secondly, this poll is meaningless for many reasons.
1. There is no way to screen for honesty. This is especially a concern in a forum frequented by fanboys and trolls.
2. Even if everyone voting was honest, there is an extreme sample bias because people who have problems are more likely to be participating in these forums and people who don't have problems are less likely to participate in this poll.
3. There is no objective definition or breakdown or what a "problem" is. For example, wouldn't it be better to break it down into:
a) glare issues
b) stuck pixels
c) flickering
d) yellow tinge
e) spots on the inner side of the glass
f) colour variation
g) other (size, heat, brightness, accepting input etc etc)
etc

An old adage in Marketing. When something is bad or wrong, maybe 1 in 10 will actually come forward and notify you. The other 9 will say nothing and likely never buy your product again. So, Marketers are thankful to the 1 in 10 for stepping forward since without them they would not be aware of the problem.

Except that many times people complain because there is a disconnect between what they thought they were getting and what the company provided. In many cases, the company might be happy with that number of complaints. IF the company is aiming for a particular positioning, there might be growing pains. There are diminishing returns when one tries to satisfy all customers. Finally, there are people who complain because they have nothing better to do. They find it fun. Are you really going to change your product because of them?

solman

Nov 18, 2009, 07:48 PM

Firstly, I have two spots like this. There's something stuck to the inner side of the glass. They are only small and could be mistaken for stuck pixels at first.

Secondly, this poll is meaningless for many reasons.
1. There is no way to screen for honesty. This is especially a concern in a forum frequented by fanboys and trolls.
2. Even if everyone voting was honest, there is an extreme sample bias because people who have problems are more likely to be participating in these forums and people who don't have problems are less likely to participate in this poll.
3. There is no objective definition or breakdown or what a "problem" is. For example, wouldn't it be better to break it down into:
a) glare issues
b) stuck pixels
c) flickering
d) yellow tinge
e) spots on the inner side of the glass
f) colour variation
g) other (size, heat, brightness, accepting input etc etc)
etc

The POLL has a very specific title "Does Your 27 inch Imac have "a" screen problem. So, if yours has b,c,d,e,f, all of which are commonly documented so far, then indeed they qualify as an answer to the POLL question. In reality, anything which is not to the satisfaction of an good paying Apple Customer is fair game for requesting action from Apple.

As for the argument, that the POLL is "meaningless" for reasons of "bias" etc etc., it's a rather mute point. Yes we won't have an accuracy like Gallup, but for heavens sakes, we will get a pretty good idea of:

1. That there is a problem

2. What the likelihood of a new purchaser getting a machine with "a" screen problem could be.

Hardly meaningless.

fobfob

Nov 18, 2009, 08:14 PM

we will get a pretty good idea of:

1. That there is a problem

2. What the likelihood of a new purchaser getting a machine with "a" screen problem could be.

Hardly meaningless.

No, sorry you are getting neither. I bet we would get similar results if we posted a poll about "problems" with new Mac Minis or Apple Remotes. Or at least we would if problems with them were already widely being complained about. People follow the leader. If they see problems being reported commonly, they are more likely to assume there are problems, and probably vote as such even without any evidence at all. For example, someone who has been reading these pages, is fed up with the number of complaints and would like Apple to fix these problems, would vote YES even if they do not have 27" Mac.

A much better metric might be to count the number of threads about 27" screen problems in proportion to a) the number of threads about 24" iMac problems when it was launched, b) the number of 21.5" iMac screen problems etc etc. That would be much more meaningful data, as it is based on historical (if still self reported) information, and not as subject to fanboy/troll influence or general Apple angst.

I'm not saying there are no problems. I am saying that this poll does not establish that as a fact, and does not glean any more information about what types of problems there might be, or how prevalent. Unfortunately, it is waste of time. I don't mean to be mean.

One more thing. Perhaps some of the attention over this screen is because it is so big. OK, so the 30" is bigger, but then look at the price and who is buying it. Now we have a consumer level big screen that's bargain priced. Big screens get attention. People are looking for problems. Again, I don't say that there aren't any. But what I perceive as a "problem" is not what Apple or someone else may see as a problem. For the record, mine is fine, except for the two tiny blotches under the glass. BTW I voted NO.

solman

Nov 18, 2009, 08:41 PM

No, sorry you are getting neither. I bet we would get similar results if we posted a poll about "problems" with new Mac Minis or Apple Remotes. Or at least we would if problems with them were already widely being complained about. People follow the leader. If they see problems being reported commonly, they are more likely to assume there are problems, and probably vote as such even without any evidence at all. For example, someone who has been reading these pages, is fed up with the number of complaints and would like Apple to fix these problems, would vote YES even if they do not have 27" Mac.

A much better metric might be to count the number of threads about 27" screen problems in proportion to a) the number of threads about 24" iMac problems when it was launched, b) the number of 21.5" iMac screen problems etc etc. That would be much more meaningful data, as it is based on historical (if still self reported) information, and not as subject to fanboy/troll influence or general Apple angst.

I'm not saying there are no problems. I am saying that this poll does not establish that as a fact, and does not glean any more information about what types of problems there might be, or how prevalent. Unfortunately, it is waste of time. I don't mean to be mean.

One more thing. Perhaps some of the attention over this screen is because it is so big. OK, so the 30" is bigger, but then look at the price and who is buying it. Now we have a consumer level big screen that's bargain priced. Big screens get attention. People are looking for problems. Again, I don't say that there aren't any. But what I perceive as a "problem" is not what Apple or someone else may see as a problem. For the record, mine is fine, except for the two tiny blotches under the glass. BTW I voted NO.

It's a shame you voted NO when you clearly have a problem, defined as -that which does not meet Apple's production standards, have admitted to having it, and mysteriously are willing to accept it. Most, or better said, any Apple Customer spending $2,000 on a state of the art computer will obviously want full satisfaction. I'm not sure why you see otherwise.

Yes, we are not doing a high-level POLL like Gallup, nor do we have the time and resources to do so. And Yes there could be fraudulent answers, but that can also occur in sophisticated polling. Anyone can lie in any poll and answer contrary to their true belief. So the point is insignificant.

What is significant is that the average person who has already purchased a new 27 inch iMac or is about to purchase a new 27 inch iMac can realize that there is a problem, not just isolated to them, and or to be aware when setting up a new machine what problems to look for.

Simple.

fobfob

Nov 18, 2009, 08:56 PM

[EDIT: deleted first bit]
What is significant is that the average person who has already purchased a new 27 inch iMac or is about to purchase a new 27 inch iMac can realize that there is a problem, not just isolated to them, and or to be aware when setting up a new machine what problems to look for.

I totally agree with this and would support efforts to properly inform people of this. All I am saying is that your poll does not help to identify the problems to look for, and as for realizing there is a problem, a glance at the other threads will tell them that. I don't mean to be harsh. I know you are trying to help.

jddar

Nov 18, 2009, 09:45 PM

I've had my i5 since Monday (3-days). This is my first Mac. So far, I've had absolutely no problems of any kind whatsoever with the screen/display. I know is sounds ridiculous to say, but "I love this computer," more and more each time I sit down to use it.

Although despite all the good, there is a little bug with the magic mouse's pointer tracking. Occasionally, I have a devilish time getting the pointer where I want it. It's just too slow, jerky and sometimes gets stuck altogether. The one and two finger scrolling works perfectly and is indeed an improvement from my previous mouse. Hopefully, Apple will come out with a mouse fix soon--I'm waiting.

nicroma

Nov 18, 2009, 10:17 PM

No screen problems. See below for machine info.

Bryan Bowler

Nov 18, 2009, 10:40 PM

but for heavens sakes, we will get a pretty good idea of:

2. What the likelihood of a new purchaser getting a machine with "a" screen problem could be.

Hardly meaningless.

I'm sorry, but it's absolutely meaningless. Your "data" will not show the likelihood of a new purchaser getting a machine with a screen problem. It will not be close at all. No offense, but this is a fact.

If you have a problem with your screen (which it appears you do), why don't you return it to Apple? When, and only when Apple documents the problem will there be a way to accumulate data to see if there is a widespread problem .

Bryan

Stingray454

Nov 19, 2009, 03:35 PM

aw crap :( I hadn't noticed any problem with my iMac i7 at all, and was happy it was problem-free. Then I saw the note about yellow screens, and looked closer - sure enough, there is a clearly visible difference at the top and bottom of the screens. The bottom part is visibly tinted.

How did you guys handle this? Has anyone spoken to Apple about it? Is it a known problem, ie will they fix it on warranty or replace your iMac? Anyways, I don't do graphical design or similar so I can live with it, it's a lot of work sending it back and waiting for a replacement too.

Damn you, I was happy with my problem-free iMac until I saw this thread :p

solman

Nov 19, 2009, 05:13 PM

Well better to act now and get it replaced rather than suffering with it for years to come.

fobfob

Nov 19, 2009, 06:25 PM

Well better to act now and get it replaced rather than suffering with it for years to come.

Stingray, don't be bullied by solman. His agenda is that he wants to buy a refurb (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=822383), so he is encouraging as many people to complain as possible. While he can do what he likes, so can you.

Stingray454

Nov 19, 2009, 07:05 PM

Yeah, I know I can make my own choices ;). I just got my mac 3 days ago, so I got some time to make up my mind. To pack it, return it and wait for a new is not something I'd be happy about. I honestly hadn't noticed the tint until you guys mentionen it, so it's not a huge problem. With background images, open windows etc the problem is hard to see. Is it worth all that trouble to fix a very minor issue? I'm not sure yet.

Maybe it's possible to take it to the local apple store where they can fix it, depending on what the problem turns out to be. I'll talk to apple tomorrow to see what they recommend.

solman

Nov 19, 2009, 07:12 PM

Stingray, don't be bullied by solman. His agenda is that he wants to buy a refurb (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=822383), so he is encouraging as many people to complain as possible. While he can do what he likes, so can you.

As for your pathetic accusation, I have absolutely no interest in buying a Re-furb. In fact, "if" you were astute enough, you would see from my post history that several years ago I bought a G5 24 inch refurb which had Coffee splashes and scratches on the LCD screen and I promptly returned it; never to buy another again.

It is my hope that after all these defective screens were sold by Apple that there "can" be some positive result from it. That all these defective returns will end up discounted in the Refurb Store.

FYI I recently ordered an i5.

Bryan Bowler

Nov 19, 2009, 11:27 PM

It is my hope that after all these defective screens were sold by Apple that there "can" be some positive result from it. That all these defective returns will end up discounted in the Refurb Store.

What the hell are you talking about? Why are you so worried about "positive results" from a few defective screens? Are you a finance officer for Apple?

Bryan

SwiftLives

Nov 19, 2009, 11:55 PM

I don't have the flickering. I do have the color temperature variation.

Damnit.

Anyway, I spoke to the apple tech on the phone, and I am to ship them my current machine, and they will ship me a replacement. The tech indicated that he was familiar with the color temp variation issue.

But my screen is noticeably warmer/yellower at the bottom than at the top. Not good when one is a graphic designer.

ugokutana

Nov 20, 2009, 12:44 AM

"Ok guys.

I attached an image of my screen with slightly (just slightly!) increased saturation to better show the variations in color.

This is from photoshop and the color of the background should be solid grey.

I can also add that I have a latest spec Macbook Pro 15" at work and when I open the grey line test image (attached in post #13) it looks brilliant. Both grey bars look exactly the same..."

my i7's screen looks similar to yours. very BAD uniformity.

JohnKorn

Nov 20, 2009, 07:50 AM

I have a driver issue for windows
only reason i use windows is for bluray crap as apple don't support blu-ray play back

i get purple blocks and line ect and then video card errors

mac is fine which makes me think its a driver!

MH01

Nov 20, 2009, 08:12 AM

The POLL has a very specific title "Does Your 27 inch Imac have "a" screen problem. So, if yours has b,c,d,e,f, all of which are commonly documented so far, then indeed they qualify as an answer to the POLL question. In reality, anything which is not to the satisfaction of an good paying Apple Customer is fair game for requesting action from Apple.

As for the argument, that the POLL is "meaningless" for reasons of "bias" etc etc., it's a rather mute point. Yes we won't have an accuracy like Gallup, but for heavens sakes, we will get a pretty good idea of:

1. That there is a problem

2. What the likelihood of a new purchaser getting a machine with "a" screen problem could be.

Hardly meaningless.

Now, think rationally for a sec, you are only getting responses from people who are on macrumors, have bought a 27" and actually got into this forum (imac). Of the users in this forum, the ones most likely to take your poll are the ones with screen defects as they are disappointed. It is users with issues that are most likely to me hanging around these forums looking for help/advice. The ones with perfectly working 27 iMacs are the least likely to me going through these forums, they are happy enjoying thier new machines.

So if you are trying to tell new potential buyers that 40% of 27" Macs have screen defects, that is an epic fail.

You target poll audience is very biased.

Yes the new 27 imacs do have issues, but like all products that are sold around the world you will always get defects, not 40%!. if you follow your logic and combine HD noise issues with Screen issues we are suddenly looking at 90% of all imacs are faulty.

solman

Nov 20, 2009, 11:51 AM

This thread is for screen problems but those with DOA's, now with 3 new threads i7's, should also vote.

What I can't understand is how all these machines were released by Apple without QC checks.

DOA means that the machine was never actually powered up and diagnosed before packing.

Who knows, maybe computers aren't actually tested, just assembled and shipped.

musukosan

Nov 20, 2009, 12:24 PM

DOA means that the machine was never actually powered up and diagnosed before packing.

I don't think that at all. DOA could mean the product worked before it was shipping and something happened during shipping. It could mean that there was a manufacturing defect of some component during a certain period of time and x number of models were effected, but after 7-14 days of being bounced around in trucks and airplanes, something broke. It could mean tiny elves plotted against apple fans and placed time "bombs" inside the computer that only affected them once the end user went to power it on... the point is when you assume you make an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me' and you should probably stop while you're behind. I may sound harsh but your banter gets read by some people who just don't know better and will assume just like you that DOA means Apple didn't test the product before it shipped. And maybe you are right, but please don't state it as fact. Because really, you just don't know what happened.

Anijake

Nov 20, 2009, 02:49 PM

Well I have a week old i5 and just started having this problem:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_e66BCdGr1HI/SwcAT13prCI/AAAAAAAAZ3k/CSul3Dh9X2Y/s400/_MG_0295.JPG

Going to the store tonight for a replacement. I originally voted no in the poll.

fobfob

Nov 20, 2009, 03:49 PM

OK I did say I wasn't going to post in this thread again, but OMG look at the results. Right now, the number of people with screen problems stands at 61!!!!

Given that there are numerous trolls and other ne'erdowells around, and assuming than no-one who genuinely has a problem would vote 'no' (Anijake notwithstanding), that means that after all the hysteria and breathless "waiting until xxxx" posts, less than 61 people actually reported a problem with their iMacs.

So that's 61 out of ???. Of course we don't know, but I cite the following evidence that suggests that number is huge.
a) the number of posts in the "waiting to SHIP" thread is 4202 - and that's just the quad cores.
b) wait is still 5-7 business days on the Apple store
c) first ever consumer quad core Macs from Apple
d) Dual core 27" have been shipping for over a month and are in stores everywhere

I suggest the number is well in the thousands.

So this poll has somewhat backfired yes? It (not impartially) set out to prove that there is a serious QC/design problem with 27" iMacs, and in the end, only 61 people, which includes trolls, gloaters and random people off the street, actually report a problem. Combine all of this with the thought that most of the people with no problem won't be found hammering away on these threads, and you come up with a tiny percentage indeed.

So I declare this poll successful in strongly suggesting there are no serious issues with 27" iMacs. It is safe to buy. Thanks solman!

solman

Nov 20, 2009, 04:54 PM

So this poll has somewhat backfired yes? It (not impartially) set out to prove that there is a serious QC/design problem with 27" iMacs, and in the end, only 61 people, which includes trolls, gloaters and random people off the street, actually report a problem. Combine all of this with the thought that most of the people with no problem won't be found hammering away on these threads, and you come up with a tiny percentage indeed.

So I declare this poll successful in strongly suggesting there are no serious issues with 27" iMacs. It is safe to buy. Thanks solman!

Funny that in addition to this threads display problem POLL, there are quite a few people (unfortunate people) with DOA's, HDD noises etc, so maybe just maybe threads are successful in sending the message Buyer Beware.

And based on the results of our POLL, looks like all the unfortunate people are not just "random freaks, anomalies, exceptions etc." as you imply. And so I agree the poll was successful in recognizing that there really is a screen problem in the 27 inch iMacs.

Well I have a week old i5 and just started having this problem:

Going to the store tonight for a replacement. I originally voted no in the poll.

Anijake I feel for you man. Sorry to hear that. Hope you get a so called "good one".

fobfob

Nov 20, 2009, 05:42 PM

Funny that in addition to this threads display problem POLL, there are quite a few people (unfortunate people) with DOA's, HDD noises etc, so maybe just maybe threads are successful in sending the message Buyer Beware.

Dude, Caveat emptor applies to all purposes of any product. All this "proves" is that Apple is a company like any other. I guess if you previously thought Apple was some kind of mystical god-like entity, then yeah I suppose you might learn something from this.

Anijake

Nov 20, 2009, 09:47 PM

Just got back from the Cube, they have a few of this problem come in and they handled it without any problem. Was in a out with a new unit in 20 minutes.

atlatnesiti

Nov 20, 2009, 10:14 PM

Just got back from the Cube, they have a few of this problem come in and they handled it without any problem. Was in a out with a new unit in 20 minutes.

That is good news indeed (kind of)... It would be much better if the replacement iMacs do not exhibit this problem anymore ;)

jvalente

Nov 20, 2009, 10:22 PM

I don't think that at all. DOA could mean the product worked before it was shipping and something happened during shipping. It could mean that there was a manufacturing defect of some component during a certain period of time and x number of models were effected, but after 7-14 days of being bounced around in trucks and airplanes, something broke. It could mean tiny elves plotted against apple fans and placed time "bombs" inside the computer that only affected them once the end user went to power it on... the point is when you assume you make an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me' and you should probably stop while you're behind. I may sound harsh but your banter gets read by some people who just don't know better and will assume just like you that DOA means Apple didn't test the product before it shipped. And maybe you are right, but please don't state it as fact. Because really, you just don't know what happened.

i lol'd.

that blue corner thing is crazy, they should give you at least 9,000 new iMacs

meagain

Nov 21, 2009, 12:18 AM

I'm not buying the results of that poll. There's no way almost HALF the new iMacs have screen issues. LOL Come on.

neonkru

Nov 21, 2009, 12:59 AM

i don't want you to think im assuming that there is an universal problem really, but 4 out of 5 people in my college had screen problems with 27 imacs. 2 of them with i5 other 2 was the base model. i will be getting the base c2d model this week so we'll see if i get unlucky, errr i would rather say, lucky to have one of the rare machines without a single issue

fobfob

Nov 21, 2009, 01:43 AM

neonkru

Nov 21, 2009, 01:53 AM

Maybe you should get an i7....

i don't need one or either better graphics. i only use the computer for internet, watching movies and playing magic the gathering online. no intensive work like movie editing or photoshoping :)

oftheheavens

Nov 21, 2009, 03:07 AM

just got and unpacked mine. Inspected for dust/broke pixels, found none. Used back up from old macbook and all went well, start up time around 15 or 20 secs. This monster came to me all the way in japan perfectly.

i7

fobfob

Nov 21, 2009, 03:17 AM

i don't need one or either better graphics. i only use the computer for internet, watching movies and playing magic the gathering online. no intensive work like movie editing or photoshoping :)

Those base models are fantastic value for such a good screen.

just got and unpacked mine. Inspected for dust/broke pixels, found none. Used back up from old macbook and all went well, start up time around 15 or 20 secs. This monster came to me all the way in japan perfectly.

i7

Don't forget to check for yellow tinge. :rolleyes:

Stingray454

Nov 21, 2009, 04:00 AM

For the record, I have two 27" iMacs (girlfriend ordered base model, I got the i7), we both have the yellow tinge. Talked to a friend who also bought one, he has it too. Doesn't seem THAT isolated to me.

fobfob

Nov 21, 2009, 05:10 AM

padthai

Nov 21, 2009, 10:35 AM

I know that this is from the older Macs in 2007, but it just goes to show you that they are still having the same problems.

Users of Apple's latest iMacs have been reporting issues related to the video card for some time now and the problem seems to only be getting worse. While Apple is aware of the issue, there is no reliable fix at this time.

Although it is easy to see that the issues are related to the video card, pinpointing the exact cause is not as easy. Many of the affected users report that their display simply freezes, leaving them essentially computer blind until they restart the machine. While the display will not update, the computer continues to work fine otherwise, programs continuing to run as before and interaction still being possible, as long as you can do it without actually having any visual feedback. Other users are experiencing more severe problems that often crash everything requiring a restart, but these appear far less common.
For some users, the problems are highly predictable and can be triggered simply by running visually intensive tasks such as iTunes visualizations or games. For others, they are less predictable, occurring only when the computer has been running for extended periods of time. In both these cases overheating seems the most likely culprit. A few of the users that use Boot Camp have also reported that they are experiencing the exact same issues in Windows.

While some people have been experiencing these problems from the get-go, others are reporting that their machines worked fine until they applied Apple's 1.1 iMac Software Update. A few users that have tried to manually rollback the drivers to pre-update versions are reporting that the problems are gone, however this fix is not universal.
Whatever the exact cause, it is certain that these problems are related to the video card or the drivers. The extent of the problems caused depends on each user's needs and the extent of the issue. Some users that don't use visually intensive programs may never even notice the problem, while those who work exclusively with graphics may have a practically unusable computer.

DesignerOnMac

Nov 21, 2009, 10:44 AM

iMac. I read for weeks the issues with the gradated screens, lines on the screens. The list of issues seemed endless to me as I read post after post, and page after page of unhappy people who purchased the 20" & 24" iMacs. I also read that the iMac would NEVER be a computer for professional designers, etc.

I needed a machine, and could not afford a mac pro. I could only afford the 24" iMac Extreme.

I took a chance and ordered the 24" iMac 2.8 Extreme. I was 'sweating' when I unboxed it and booted it. I calibrated the monitor, and to be honest with everyone, I have had no issues with the monitor or this iMac. What I see on the screen is what I see in the web pages I design, and in all the print media I send to my printer. Colors are accurate, and I have not had any of the issues that a lot of people posted on MR. (So if I went by what was posted on MR, and other rumor sites, I would have not bought this iMac.)

I, of course, have no idea how many iMacs Apple ships are one time, nor do I know what the percentage of defective iMacs there truly are out there......
my experience is that people on forums post problems and issues they are having, and compared to people who have no issues with the same computer or monitor is a 'small' percentage of the total production. (My opinion only.)

I am happy to see that Apple is taking these new iMacs back and making good on their products. I can not begin to tell you that other computer companies do not handle similar situations in this way.

padthai

Nov 21, 2009, 11:00 AM

When will Apple address the public and say "hey, we have a hardware issue in some of our 27inch macs, please return for another one". They just wait for the customer to go into the shop, buy, keep their fingers crossed that nothing will go wrong. So its like the salesman is saying "Here you go buddy, the new27inch imac, that will be 2,000 bucks please, oh yeah, Hope it works! if not you can always return it and try again.

Apple will not state a recall because they don't want to pay the shipping costs. They are penny pinching.

Bryan Bowler

Nov 21, 2009, 12:30 PM

Ok everyone, I'd like to clarify my position.

For starters, solman, I apologize for riding you so hard on this issue. I really am sorry and I do respect that each of us has our own personal opinions, and I will do a better job of showing respect in regards to my posts on this matter.

I absolutely believe that there are defects in manufactured products. I also believe that from time-to-time, there can be larger-scale problems that, when verified, can be cause for concern. I assume solman's goal is to highlight or list any problems that people are having with their screens. I guess what's throwing me off is the wording -- it leads me (and other readers) to believe that there is a definitive wide-spread problems, when in fact, we are not at that point yet. I guess I'm sensitive to exaggerations because it can cause panic amongst readers and then develop a "sky is falling" approach. This panicked mentality then leads to a slew of posts in which "the fear" picks up momentum and then before too long, it's hard to decipher what is really going on in regards to a particular issue. Perhaps it's the scientist in me, but I much rather prefer a systematic approach, versus an assumptive role. At any rate, I'm starting to ramble, so I digress.

I feel bad that a few folks are experiencing issues with the screens on their beautiful new iMac. I do support discussion to get a better idea of what's going on. I would just caution other readers to not read too much into this initially because there is a good chance that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of good iMacs for every bad one.

And again solman, I apologize for being abrasive.

Bryan

solman

Nov 21, 2009, 01:36 PM

"lloyd said on Nov 21 2009, 07:27 AM:

Had mine for 12 days Started to black out and screen flicker..Took it back to Best Buy Did not exchange it Will wait until they fix the problem at Apple . Long time mac user for 20 years First Mac I ever took back"

This is an interesting comment because I also started with my first Mac The Mac Classic 11! and never had a faulty Mac until... the great Aluminum iMac release of 2007 and returned the FAMOUS SCREEN GRADIENT ISUUE on the 24 inch. After returning 3 machines, I gave up! Call it fear or perhaps right action. Why reward a business or company that fails you?

So, now we fast forward to Fall '09 and presto, same Aluminum iMac screen problem channel.

Sad thing is, I REALLY want one of these but without the:

a) Go to Apple Store
b) Hand over $2,000
c) Carry BIG box to car
d) Unload BIG box from car
e) Spend 1 hour to connect and set up
f) Discover well known 27 inch screen problem
g) Spend another hour with Apple Customer "Care"
h) Re-box computer
i) Carry BIG box back to car again
j) Unload BIG box from car again
k) Arrive at familiar Apple Store again
l) Spend another hour for available worker to check the return

And what, repeat a) through l) above all over again?

My advice based on ALL the well documented experiences/polls etc.:

I agree with Lloyd - keep your cash in your wallet until Apple has solved this obvious mess.

Most of us are experiencing some or all of the issues described here, but many of us are having them show up very intermittently, in varying proportions. For me, first 4 days were minor screen flickering only, almost imperceptible. Then there were 3 days when the machine gave no indication that anything was wrong at all - no flickering, nothing. On the 8th day not only did I experience the flickering again, and a lot more noticeably, but the screen went black for half a second too. I shut down the Mac, unplugged it for 30 seconds and rebooted. Haven't seen another issue for 2 days. I'm in no doubt they will appear again because there is a fault. How often the symptoms show up is not the issue here. They shouldn't appear at all - not once. Apple are well aware of this issue and are replacing any machine that exhibits problems. You have a brand new, expensive, top of the line Mac. It should work flawlessly. If you've experienced some faulty behaviour then isn't there only one conclusion you can draw from it?

Taken from the other huge 27 inch display problem thread.

Wow.

I just hope that those with problems will go back and and change their vote in the POLL:eek:

fobfob

Nov 21, 2009, 04:45 PM

I just hope that the NO voters in the POLL will go back after 8 days and change their vote:eek:

So, assuming you don't want people to lie, you are actually saying you hope that people who don't have faults yet DO develop faults and then come back and change their vote.

You're showing your true colours now buddy. Thanks a million. My 27" i7 iMac is fine and I'll thank you not to "hope" it develops a fault so I can change my vote.

After returning 3 machines, I gave up! Call it fear or perhaps right action. Why reward a business or company that fails you?

And yet you just put your money down for an i5 iMac. Can't take your own medicine? :rolleyes:

I agree with you that all these problems must be fixed and it is not acceptable if there is a systematic problem with manufacturing or a design issue, especially from Apple. I also understand the hassle it is to have to return a broken machine.

But if you think the proportion of units with these problems is anywhere close to the results of this poll, I can tell you now, you are in a total dream world. If even 5% of machines had this problem it would be WORLDWIDE news, and not just in tech pages. Apple stock will plummet and they WOULD be forced to recall the units. Maybe all that is yet to come. We don't know.

I can tell you this however. This site is a honeypot for people with complaints with Apple products. I'm not saying they are wrong. The stories I have read on these pages regarding iMac 27" are sad. I wish they didn't have any problems and I hope they are resolved speedily.

All I am saying is that you and I have no way to tell what the proportion of bad units are, and therefore it is impossible to "recommend" that people wait, especially if they need a computer now. If they don't need an iMac right now, then fair enough, wait. But they probably should be waiting until they need it anyway.

HLdan

Nov 21, 2009, 05:02 PM

Taken from the other huge 27 inch display problem thread.

Wow.

I just hope that the NO voters in the POLL will go back after 8 days and change their vote:eek:

Why would you hope something like that? I was with you for a while, but now I'm with Bryan that you are now making this personal and you're just trying to wreak havoc and spread FUD. You're actually hoping the people with no problems with their new iMac to end up having problems so they can come back and change their vote?

Taken from the other huge 27 inch display problem thread.

Wow.

I just hope that the NO voters in the POLL won't have to go back after 8 days and change their vote:eek:

Fixed that. ;)

fobfob

Nov 21, 2009, 05:14 PM

Fixed that. ;)

To be fair, I do hope solman made a mistake, either a typo or that he was just lazy and meant "those with problems change their vote". Otherwise there are very few expletives that are not applicable here.

solman

Nov 21, 2009, 05:31 PM

Why would you hope something like that? I was with you for a while, but now I'm with Bryan that you are now making this personal and you're just trying to wreak havoc and spread FUD. You're actually hoping the people with no problems with their new iMac to end up having problems so they can come back and change their vote?

Wrong.

I'm simply saying that "if" you voted NO because you "had" no problem when you got your machine, but NOW you do have a problem, be fair to the POLL and vote YES.

ONLY IF YOU TRULY HAVE A PROBLEM.

So, PLEASE, get this vendatta sydrome out of your head. This thread is meant to help all or any of us who are victims to this obvious problem.

I hope the post has now been clarified.

fobfob

Nov 21, 2009, 05:34 PM

I hope the post has now been clarified.

It has, but you could have been more gracious about it. After all, it was you who made the mistake.

solman

Nov 21, 2009, 05:40 PM

And yet you just put your money down for an i5 iMac. Can't take your own medicine? :rolleyes:
.

Such a shameful comment yet I will stoop so low as to answer it.

That was 2 years ago. And by NOW, 2 years and a whole new generation of iMacs later, I would have thought that a company as respectable as Apple would have thoroughly engineered their new design and manufacturing so that the 2007 iMac screen fiascos were not repeated.

Usually companies/products progress for the better don't they?

Based on your needlessly insinuating one liner, you obviously don't think so.

HLdan

Nov 21, 2009, 06:31 PM

Wrong.

I'm simply saying that "if" you voted NO because you "had" no problem when you got your machine, but NOW you do have a problem, be fair to the POLL and vote YES.

ONLY IF YOU TRULY HAVE A PROBLEM.

So, PLEASE, get this vendatta sydrome out of your head. This thread is meant to help all or any of us who are victims to this obvious problem.

I hope the post has now been clarified.

Honestly man, you need to drop this attitude. It's been going on quite a bit now. What vendetta do I have? :rolleyes: That was my first post to you and IF YOU READ everything I said, my first line to you was that "I WAS WITH YOU" in terms of your OP, until you said and I quote:
I just hope that the NO voters in the POLL go back after 8 days and change their vote.Those were YOUR exact words which don't mimic anything you said above. Sorry, but your spellchecker doesn't determine what you "meant" and make corrections so you don't appear as a FUD spreader.

solman

Nov 21, 2009, 06:44 PM

Why would you hope something like that? I was with you for a while, but now I'm with Bryan that you are now making this personal and you're just trying to wreak havoc and spread FUD. You're actually hoping the people with no problems with their new iMac to end up having problems so they can come back and change their vote?

Hi HLdan,

Absolutely nothing against you:cool: Based on your above words, which insinuated that I had some vendetta, when in fact there is no such thought. That is what prompted the nature of my reply.

you said and I quote:
I just hope that the NO voters in the POLL go back after 8 days and change their vote.Those were YOUR exact words which don't mimic anything you said above. .

As for this quote, really it's simple. If you got your machine and voted "NO" 8 days ago and suddenly today, 8 days later, should you have a screen problem, it makes perfect sense that you should/can change your vote. Doesn't it? And you call this "personal and wreaking havoc"?

fobfob

Nov 21, 2009, 07:02 PM

That was 2 years ago.

Wow, you missed the point entirely. Forgetting what happened two years ago, your hypocrisy can be deduced just from your posts over the past few days. You are recommending people not to buy the iMac and yet you bought one yourself!!! Oh, and does it have screen problems? Don't know because you haven't got it yet. So why don't you cancel your order?

Bryan Bowler

Nov 21, 2009, 07:06 PM

This thread is meant to help all or any of us who are victims to this obvious problem.

solman, respectfully, it does sound like you have a vendetta.

It seems like you barge into other threads with your poll and then you've also pull posts from other threads into this one to further your agenda. It's also convenient when you do this to get your thread back to the top of the forum. You should let discussion about screen problems simply take place instead of prompting or cheering them on.

Bryan

MacinDoc

Nov 21, 2009, 07:11 PM

The POLL has a very specific title "Does Your 27 inch Imac have "a" screen problem. So, if yours has b,c,d,e,f, all of which are commonly documented so far, then indeed they qualify as an answer to the POLL question. In reality, anything which is not to the satisfaction of an good paying Apple Customer is fair game for requesting action from Apple.

As for the argument, that the POLL is "meaningless" for reasons of "bias" etc etc., it's a rather mute point. Yes we won't have an accuracy like Gallup, but for heavens sakes, we will get a pretty good idea of:

1. That there is a problem

2. What the likelihood of a new purchaser getting a machine with "a" screen problem could be.

Hardly meaningless.
Actually, regarding your second point, the probability of a new purchaser getting a machine with "a" screen problem would be very poorly estimated by this sort of poll, because this sort of poll is, as others have pointed out, inherently biased because those with no screen problems and who are not trolls are much less likely to respond. In fact, if the rate of defective screens was anywhere near what this poll would suggest, Apple would be out of business because of the exorbitant cost of replacing displays. In large-scale post-consumer polls, the proportion of Mac desktop owners experiencing ANY hardware problem in the first year after purchase has always been less than 10%, and usually less than 5%.

sparkie7

Nov 21, 2009, 08:10 PM

Sad thing is, I REALLY want one of these but without the:

a) Go to Apple Store
b) Hand over $2,000
c) Carry BIG box to car
d) Unload BIG box from car
e) Spend 1 hour to connect and set up
f) Discover well known 27 inch screen problem
g) Spend another hour with Apple Customer "Care"
h) Re-box computer
i) Carry BIG box back to car again
j) Unload BIG box from car again
k) Arrive at familiar Apple Store again
l) Spend another hour for available worker to check the return

And what, repeat a) through l) above all over again?

Simple. just do a).

and before you go onto b). -- ask to inspect the machine in-store. if you are happy walk out. done deal.

If not, ask another iMac fresh out of the box.

Continue till you are happy.

I did that at my local Apple Store when I bought 2x30" ACD's. I went through about 8 brand new ACD's before walking out with 2 I found were acceptable. I'll admit that the Apple Store I dealt with, the sales guy and the store manager went the extra mile. And so they should b/c it meant I, the customer left the store happy. And they got to isolate the bad ACD's and return them to Apple to get fixed or sold on as refurbs to people who had lesser expectations than myself.

solman

Nov 21, 2009, 08:36 PM

BenLava

Nov 21, 2009, 08:42 PM

I'm not buying the results of that poll. There's no way almost HALF the new iMacs have screen issues. LOL Come on.

Right. There are two sets of data that would produce meaningful results. The first is the complete set of information about all new 27" iMacs, which Apple possesses and presumably uses. The second would be obtained by polling a randomly selected sample of new owners, which again only Apple (or I suppose a reseller) could obtain since no one else has any means of knowing all the recent iMac purchasers from which to select a subset to poll.

Instead, we could just collect a record of people with screen problems. We can't say it would be a representative sample, but we could say (with reasonably good confidence) that X number of new iMac owners have problems with their screens.

And, as I posted in the "Waiting for..." thread, the screen of my new i7 was DOA (no image, even though the computer started and said, ominously, "English!").

sparkie7

Nov 21, 2009, 08:42 PM

Thanks Sparkie7. Now I like your idea:) It would take some time and I guess a very co-operative salesperson. But better than driving hours back and forth, packing/unpacking etc. Maybe the only disadvantage I see is if your screen display is perfect for those 5 minutes but the problem comes later.

I believe a previous reply had someone purchase the display which appeared OK and worsened to a real problem 8 days later. So far it seems to be a mix of display problems immediately and display problems shortly after purchase.

well at least it greatly reduces your chances of a dud machine. b/c if you dont test an iMac whilst instore then its like playing lottery. You feel lucky punk? LOL had to put that in. couldn't resist :D

at least you walk out with a machine thats good at the time of testing. if it develops a problem afterwards you have 2 levels of recourse.

1. the 14 day right of return
2. 12 months warranty cover as standard

and 3. if you get care -another 2yrs of cover.

Don't stand for anything less than perfection. Well, ok.. near perfection :p:D

solman

Nov 21, 2009, 09:09 PM

Don't stand for anything less than perfection. Well, ok.. near perfection :p:D

Well said sparkie7!

Actually we had this conversation yesterday and why there's so many unhappy customers returning defective 27 inch iMac displays. I think 2 reasons:

1. Apple themselves have set the bar for quality and design excellence so high that people expect the very best.

2. At the prices Apple charge (relative to PC's), why shouldn't they be perfect?

Wow, you missed the point entirely. Forgetting what happened two years ago, your hypocrisy can be deduced just from your posts over the past few days. You are recommending people not to buy the iMac and yet you bought one yourself!!! Oh, and does it have screen problems? Don't know because you haven't got it yet. So why don't you cancel your order?

Missed the point? fobfob read your words carefully. So let's see, based on your quote you're saying that because i bought an iMac(s) WITH screen problems that I should just remain silent and let others to fall in the same trap?

Or as a kind gesture to the Apple community, it would be helpful to spare other potential users/buyers of the same fate.

Hmmm. That's a hard one.

Btom

Nov 21, 2009, 09:37 PM

I believe a previous reply had someone purchase the display which appeared OK and worsened to a real problem 8 days later. So far it seems to be a mix of display problems immediately and display problems shortly after purchase.

solman,

I admire your zeal and thick skin, taking all the abuse (and appreciate time you spend).

You are not alone in suspecting, that THERE IS a problem. Granted, our poll doesn't give real statistics, but this is the only one we have and Apple ain't talkin'. I just asked (~2h ago) our local Apple Man (Apple rep) about this issue. He didn't hear about it at all, and basically told me "don't worry, be happy, if anything happens we'll fix it" (I certainly hope so).

Also, our statistics is not necessary that much off. Let's just assume that 10% of all iMac buyers is on this forum and they report 40% failure rate (for now). Chances are that the failure ratio for the remaining 90% buyers (who are not here) is not that much off. The fact, that the problem was reported repeating itself on the replacement iMacs would confirm high failure ratio as well.

I suspect that for now Apple is stonewalling the problem to avoid bad PR and not to affect Christmas sales (and stock price).

An another topic, viciousness and really bad manners of some of the members here comes as kind of a shock to me (whatever happen to the smart guy from the "Come to Apple" ads??). If you guys are happy with YOUR purchases - good for you and I really wish you and your computers well (and what are you doing here, watching the lowlifes??).

MT0227

Nov 21, 2009, 09:54 PM

I have no issues with my display, performed a dead pixel test...there are none. Voted as such in the poll.

what are you doing here, watching the lowlifes?

No...just answering the poll as suggested by the OP

pinthea

Nov 21, 2009, 10:04 PM

Simple. just do a).

and before you go onto b). -- ask to inspect the machine in-store. if you are happy walk out. done deal.

If not, ask another iMac fresh out of the box.

Continue till you are happy.

I did that at my local Apple Store when I bought 2x30" ACD's. I went through about 8 brand new ACD's before walking out with 2 I found were acceptable. I'll admit that the Apple Store I dealt with, the sales guy and the store manager went the extra mile. And so they should b/c it meant I, the customer left the store happy. And they got to isolate the bad ACD's and return them to Apple to get fixed or sold on as refurbs to people who had lesser expectations than myself.

Long story short -- two stuck pixels, and a 27" screen that audibly whined when you brought the brightness down below 80%.

Also had problems with color uniformity (color temp) and a wired ethernet port that would sometimes not work after waking from sleep until rebooted. Plus the 27" i5 has *NO* ability to enable Jumbo frames.

Enough problems? I'd say so...

I asked the Genius after I was successful in returning my i5 iMac this past week whether they could do this for me -- let me open the box, plug it in, check it out for visual or noise problems BEFORE I took it home. He said they didn't have enough staff to devote to this. It might be possible for me to do this if I booked a "personal shopping" appointment but that's either before the store opens or after they close, and they still couldn't say whether the store would be quiet enough to hear the whiney-screen problem.

Sorry, but if you're gonna plunk down $2K or more on a new system hot on a heels of getting a defective one your first time, I say that they owe you a little bit of good will and effort...

Btom

Nov 21, 2009, 10:15 PM

No...just answering the poll as suggested by the OP

MT0227,

I was talking about some abusive posts up the thread, sorry if, due to my imprecise phrase, you felt included.

padthai

Nov 21, 2009, 10:42 PM

How do you know that the statistics are incorrect? Please tell us all!

If you say something buddy be prepared to back it up!

Are they incorrect in your knowledgeable opinion? Or do you have hard proof that the stats are wrong?

I must have counted over 40 people that have problems with their new imac27, I was just at the istudio shop and ran into 2 people at the counter with hey guess what "Problems with their screens".

So you would still buy a new 27inch imac, after reading about all the problems they are having?

If two planes from the same company crashed in the same month, would you still fly on that airline? Or would those stats be wrong too?

Apple could produce a complete dud of a machine and you would still rant and rave over it saying how good it is because it was made by apple.

Apple, do they make great computers? or are they great marketers?

Btom

Nov 21, 2009, 10:44 PM

Btom, I'm sorry, but the statistics are definitely incorrect. If there really was a 40% failure rate, this forum, about a dozen other websites, and the news would be bursting with stories.

Bryan

Bryan,

Well, our does...
Also, Apple is good in taking care of our kind of complains (thanks for it!).
Also, the kind of (in my opinion intermittent hardware) problems is a hell of a job to investigate and fix on a stiff deadline.
I know, I was there.

Btom

fobfob

Nov 21, 2009, 10:53 PM

Or as a kind gesture to the Apple community, it would be helpful to spare other potential users/buyers of the same fate.

OK here's the thing. You want to publicise these failures to force Apple to fix their design and/or manufacturing, right? Then publicise them! Send emails and letters to tech writers and bloggers. Most importantly, don't accept any bad iMacs. Return every one and don't "give up" like you did with your 24" iMac.

Apple are a public company and are therefore sensitive to shareholder concerns. Further, they are in the business to make money, and product returns cost them dearly. A small percentage is acceptable, but at a certain point it is going to be worth actually fixing the underlying issue.

These are the ways to make Apple change. Not gossiping with those already affected, and posting meaningless polls.

Chances are that the failure ratio for the remaining 90% buyers (who are not here) is not that much off.

Sorry but this is simply wrong. I'm not trying to be mean. For the following reasons:
a) The percentage of owners who are on these forums a tiny fraction the total, not 10%. It might be 0.01% or something like that. That means the error on whatever poll we take is going to be huge when extrapolated to the whole population. Simply put, the sample size does not represent a high enough proportion to be valid. Now I could be wrong, but the point is we don't know and therefore cannot assume it.
b) On what basis do you make the claim that the failure rate of the rest of the proportion of people who own the iMacs in question is the same as those on this board? In fact there is very good reason to think the opposite, because anyone with access to another computer (or who's iMacs are functioning albeit faulty) is likely to look it up on google and find links to sites such as this, and thereby report it. As I said before, these pages are honeypots to people with problems. And if Apple can't help (on the spot) the natural thing to do is to complain to anyone who can listen, which means us on these forums. I'm not saying its wrong, I'm just saying its human nature to vent.
c) Not everyone who doesn't have a problem but who does read these forums has voted NO, just as not everyone with problems voted YES. We don't know the relative proportions of those two populations, but have no reason to think they would be same, and therefore is another source of error.
Thus it is very unlikely that the failure rate reported on these pages, even if they were honest and not subject to trolls, is in any way indicative of the failure rate of all iMacs.

As both myself and MacinDoc pointed out, if the real failure rate was even in the same ballpark as that shown on this poll
a) It would be huge news on Tech sites and would probably get a mention in some non-tech news
b) Stock would tank
c) Apple would lose a buckload of money
d) (Ironically) Apple would fix the problem faster!

The fact, that the problem was reported repeating itself on the replacement iMacs would confirm high failure ratio as well

No, statistically it cannot, but it is extremely disturbing. As I mentioned before, it looks like Apple have several problems here and need to lift their game. My issue is with people who believe that a poll such as this has any statistical meaning and therefore can be used as a basis for a purchase decision. Unfortunately, it can't.

Or do you have hard proof that the stats are wrong?

We can absolutely prove that the method of collecting the data is statistically invalid. It might be the case that, by coincidence, the data is actually correct. But the fact that the method of collection was invalid, means it cannot be used for statistical purposes.

So you would still buy a new 27inch imac, after reading about all the problems they are having?

That is precisely the question that we are trying to address. It is up to the individual to decide whether to buy. Assuming you need the machine, the question is whether you think it's worth the hassle to take it back. Solman quite rightly broke down that hassle in detail and I agree that it can be a real pain. That is a factor that we all need to make in the purchase decision, and I think Solman has certainly helped us in that regard.

If two planes from the same company crashed in the same month, would you still fly on that airline? Or would those stats be wrong too?

That depends on the reason for the crashes.

Apple could produce a complete dud of a machine and you would still rant and rave over it saying how good it is because it was made by apple.

We are trying to make meaning of the information at hand. There certainly are plenty of problems and Apple is going to incur significant cost in rectifying them under warranty. Obviously they will also investigate the reasons why they happen. Our hope is that they deem the cost to rectify the production issues is worth the investment, and that they don't deem this sort of failure rate to be acceptable.

Apple, do they make great computers? or are they great marketers?

Good question, but something that is beyond the scope of this poll to establish.

evillageprowler

Nov 21, 2009, 11:20 PM

Padthai,

Statistics cannot be assumed to be correct; they need to be backed up by an established scientific method for how the data is obtained. Otherwise, I can say that 89.123456% of all people believe what they read and then sit back and force people to prove my statistic is wrong...

And, by the way, fobfob and Bryan did reasonably call into question the validity of the data as well as all the consequent claims based on the data by the OP. What fobfob and Bryan did was to call into question the lack of scientific method in obtaining the data. It is up to the OP to defend his methodology and to prove that it is scientifically valid.

Show this thread to any scientist, mathematician or statistician and he will tell you that the assertions based on the data from the poll are too over-reaching.

EVP

PS I think Internet polls have a 18.625% chance of having a scientifically valid methodolgy. ;)

Btom

Nov 21, 2009, 11:37 PM

fobfob,

Most of my speculations are based on "Statistics 101" and most of your objections are valid to some extent. Still, these are the only numbers we have and reported 100 PROBLEMS and 140 NO PROBLEMS are already statistically valid (depending on the confidence level you want to apply to it of course), main problem being intermittence of the blinking (one may argue, that some of the "NO" responders simply didn't see it yet).

On the other hand Apple wants to sell computers BEFORE Christmas to brag and I understand that too. I strongly believe they are also working on it as we speak. By now the problem seems to be real, unfortunately and also not totally unexpectedly (switching to the LED back light is a serious hardware change and it is easy to overlook this one thing...).

Btom

Again, thank you.

solman,

My pleasure,

Btom

bajee

Nov 22, 2009, 01:07 AM

Hey B boy, how do you know that the statistics are incorrect? Please tell us all!

If you say something buddy be prepared to back it up!

Are they incorrect in your knowledgeable opinion? Or do you have hard proof that the stats are wrong?

to be honest, if you look at your statements its kinda fallacious. What if he asked you to provide proof that the poll is true, the actual burden of providing proof is the one that made / believes the poll is true? :)

admanimal

Nov 22, 2009, 01:25 AM

Simple statistical calculations can tell us that the 99% confidence interval for this many responses (249 at the moment) is about 8%. In other words, assuming that the sample population is unbiased, which is almost surely NOT the case here, we can only be sure that the percentage of people who really have screen issues is somewhere between about 33 and 49%.

Again, this assumes that the sample population is unbiased, which is not the case here since most of the people who responded to this poll are people from MR looking at a thread about iMacs with screen problems, not a uniform sample across all 27" iMac owners.

ndriver182

Nov 22, 2009, 02:32 AM

to be honest, if you look at your statements its kinda fallacious. What if he asked you to provide proof that the poll is true, the actual burden of providing proof is the one that made / believes the poll is true? :)

Exactly. The argument goes both ways.

MacinDoc

Nov 22, 2009, 02:40 AM

There is certainly no need for unpleasantness in these forums. There is also no reason why MR members should avoid posting on this thread just because they happen to disagree with the assertions of the OP - this is a forum, after all, not a fan club.

The problem with this thread is that the OP is overgeneralizing the results of a small poll whose respondants are almost certainly selected in a biased fashion (as others have said, a large number who responded that they did have a problem may have arrived at this thread by doing a web search for iMac video problems). The lack of randomization in selecting respondants for this poll (recognizing that it would not be realistic to expect that the OP could have done this) completely destroys our ability to generalize the results beyond those who chose to respond. We can certainly state that 40% of responses (not necessarily respondants, because we cannot verify whether anyone may have under multiple usernames made multiple votes on either side) claimed (again, we cannot establish the veracity of the claims) that they had experienced a problem. One cannont claim, however, based on the design of this study, that these numbers are representative of the general population of 27" iMac purchasers, because in addition to the potential biases already mentioned, the selection bias in such polls severely skews the results. One could compare it to a site that conducted a poll asking whether readers had experienced a particular adverse effect to a particular medication. Almost 100% of people reading that thread (the adverse effect in question, of course, was the reason why they were reading the thread) would have responded that they had experienced that adverse effect while taking the medication, but if you did a randomized control trial, you would in most cases find that the incidence of that adverse effect was much lower.

Furthermore, from an economic standpoint, it makes no sense for Apple to cover up a problem just to promote holiday sales. These iMacs are, after all, covered under a minimum 1 year warranty, and continuing to produce them if they are defective at a 40% rate would simply not be economically viable, and unless Apple is completely fiscally irresponsible, a decision would have been made to put production on hold until the problem was resolved (in other words, the shipping dates would have slipped into December or beyond). Also, any computers that could not be fixed and were sent back for defects could not be put back into the mainstream shipping pipeline once they were fixed; they would have to be posted in the Refurb Store. Has anyone seen a 27" iMac there yet?

I am very sorry that some people have experienced problems with their new iMacs, and I hope that their problems are resolved quickly by Apple. I am pleased to say that mine works perfectly, as does every other one I have seen first-hand, and I hope that everyone else has a similar experience.

bajee

Nov 22, 2009, 05:23 AM

maybe we can ask a mod to make it sticky? just a suggestion :cool:

cmvsm

Nov 22, 2009, 10:18 AM

Furthermore, from an economic standpoint, it makes no sense for Apple to cover up a problem just to promote holiday sales. These iMacs are, after all, covered under a minimum 1 year warranty, and continuing to produce them if they are defective at a 40% rate would simply not be economically viable, and unless Apple is completely fiscally irresponsible, a decision would have been made to put production on hold until the problem was resolved (in other words, the shipping dates would have slipped into December or beyond).

I agree that the polls on Macforums are certainly not representative of the entire iMac buying population by any means, however, it would make plenty of sense from a financial perspective to ensure that Apple has its game face on when the holidays are at hand, and not be plagued with a manufacturing defect. Who knows if this issue is a running change in the assembly line or if its going to take a lot more effort and resources to fix, but I'd venture to say that Apple will do what it needs to do to protect its image during the holidays, whether that means fixing the problem or covering it up or both.

Also, any computers that could not be fixed and were sent back for defects could not be put back into the mainstream shipping pipeline once they were fixed; they would have to be posted in the Refurb Store. Has anyone seen a 27" iMac there yet?

They could easily be holding them for later distribution into the refurb'd website. If you owned the company and just released a product, why would you give the customer an opportunity to spend less? You really wouldn't. I'm sure that there have been plenty of machines returned for one reason or another, but Apple is doing what any other company would do.

HLdan

Nov 22, 2009, 11:45 AM

it would make plenty of sense from a financial perspective to ensure that Apple has its game face on when the holidays are at hand, and not be plagued with a manufacturing defect. Who knows if this issue is a running change in the assembly line or if its going to take a lot more effort and resources to fix, but I'd venture to say that Apple will do what it needs to do to protect its image during the holidays, whether that means fixing the problem or covering it up or both.

True, but one thing the OP and some others on this thread seem to forget is that the iMac hasn't been out very long. It takes more than a month for a company to decipher the amount of computers shipped defective. Heck, the i7 just started shipping to customers a week ago. Even if Apple's own employees are seeing issues with the iMac, the company can't just up and say, "Hey, stop the production and let's put out a statement that we screwed up and our customers are receiving junky machines".
Also, for example, say if Apple sold 100,000 iMacs, if only 10,000 of them came back defective, that's not enough for the company to put out a statement and admit a defect. This type of situation takes several weeks to months to determine if it's a manufacturing defect, a design defect, a shipping defect or whatever, and the most that will happen is they will correct the issue on the assembly line and repair the ones the customers are complaining about.

Btom

Nov 24, 2009, 12:37 PM

iMac problems start to be noticed. Apparently all it takes is one bad unit on a desk of a journalist.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/24/core-i7-imacs-showing-up-doa-including-ours/

Tom B

solman

Nov 25, 2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmvsm
it would make plenty of sense from a financial perspective to ensure that Apple has its game face on when the holidays are at hand, and not be plagued with a manufacturing defect. Who knows if this issue is a running change in the assembly line or if its going to take a lot more effort and resources to fix, but I'd venture to say that Apple will do what it needs to do to protect its image during the holidays, whether that means fixing the problem or covering it up or both.

One really has to wonder what the real truth is. But, at this stage, it appears to be the latter; covering it up. Especially in light of the good point made by Padthai:

"To admit manufacturing fault would both derail X-Mas sales and affect year-end Apple Stock Earnings Reports."

iMac problems start to be noticed. Apparently all it takes is one bad unit on a desk of a journalist.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/24/core-i7-imacs-showing-up-doa-including-ours/

Tom B

Finally, Macrumors has decided to also also highlight the iMac problem(s) :

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/24/27-core-i7-imacs-arriving-doa-or-with-cracked-screens/

Michaelgtrusa

Nov 25, 2009, 10:52 AM

Here is one more. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVHCn9VSyIA

solman

Nov 26, 2009, 12:16 AM

fobfob

Nov 26, 2009, 02:07 AM

iMac problems make front page mainstream (non tech) news. (http://www.smh.com.au/)

Link to story. (http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/computers/flickering-screens-plague-new-imac-owners-20091126-jtnx.html?autostart=1)

Having said that, its popularity in the tech section is number 2 after story about the guy who married a character from Nintendo DS Love Plus so....

Steve,

Fix the iMac. Not that big of a deal.

Fobfob

MH01

Nov 26, 2009, 04:25 AM

Well bugger... I got one that flickers and blacks out.

Bryan Bowler

Nov 26, 2009, 08:10 AM

Oh my this new 27 inch iMac Thriller is turning into a Horror movie.

Should we change the POLL to maybe:

Does your iMac have?

Screen problems
HD noise Problems
DOA problems
_____ problems (coming soon)

solman,

Welcome back. If you really want to help the Apple community, you may want to consider taking an approach like tapplox has done in this thread here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=824940). taaplox's thread is an outstanding example of how to track and approach a problem such as the yellow tinge that some people are experiencing. He/she is focused on a specific issue and is doing an excellent job of not getting emotional or biased in their approach. This tends to produce constructive input that may very well help forum readers, or potentially Apple, better understand the problem at hand.

You sir, I'm having a much harder time understanding. It seems like you're you're quick to bash any and every problem that you can dig up on the internet, yet you have never even owned one of the new iMacs. A quick research of your posting history also shows that you did a very similar thing a couple of years ago: you came here and bashed the heck out of the iMac and then left. And now you're back again with the same approach. In many circles, this would be considered trolling, but perhaps you're not.

I guess my ultimate question to you is this: what is your goal here? Is it to help sort out an issue that is affecting some users, and perhaps better things for the Apple community? Or do you have something else in mind?

I'm very interested to know.

Thanks,
Bryan

Trek2100

Nov 26, 2009, 08:21 AM

My 27" i7 is flawless, so far. It was on for 15 plus hours yesterday playing videos, music, transferring files and loading software. It went to sleep around 1:00 am. It woke up this morning feeling fine:) I tried to vote but could not find the vote button on the website.

JimAtLaw

Nov 26, 2009, 09:48 AM

Damn, I just had a full screen blink. !@#%#, I do not want to take this thing back after waiting weeks to get it and then spending a week setting it up!

Has there been any progress at all in finding an actual cause for this? If it's hardware, I guess I'm screwed and I need to return it, but I'm desperately hoping not to. Guess it's time to plug in that Time Capsule and back up the machine, but jeez.

Btom

Nov 26, 2009, 12:19 PM

Has there been any progress at all in finding an actual cause for this? If it's hardware, I guess I'm screwed and I need to return it, but I'm desperately hoping not to. Guess it's time to plug in that Time Capsule and back up the machine, but jeez.

No cure, no even acknowledgment, but apparently they replace the unit, no problem.

You may also want to update the POLL (and slip a note to Bryan, he thinks we are all just crybabys).

All the best with your next one.

Bryan Bowler

Nov 26, 2009, 08:21 PM

You may also want to update the POLL (and slip a note to Bryan, he thinks we are all just crybabys).

Hi Tom,

I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not upset at all that people are talking about problems with their iMac. I also think it's great that folks are trying to pull information together to help decipher what's going on. (like in the thread I linked to a few posts above) But it does bother me when someone is, or at least appears to be, blasting the heck out of something with blanket-type comments. Take a look at the OP's recent comments:

Oh my this new 27 inch iMac Thriller is turning into a Horror movie.

Should we change the POLL to maybe:

Does your iMac have?

Screen problems
HD noise Problems
DOA problems
_____ problems (coming soon)

Does this seem like he is trying to get to the bottom of the problem? Does it seem like he is contributing to the forum? In my eyes, he is simply taking an opportunity to continually bash Apple, just like he did two years ago. Now don't get me wrong: it's totally ok to not like a product and voice your opinion. But when all you can do is continually bash something and do so with outrageous claims (such as over 50% of all iMacs are effected), then yes, it begins to look like trolling.

Bryan

solman

Nov 26, 2009, 10:42 PM

Hi Tom,

I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not upset at all that people are talking about problems with their iMac. I also think it's great that folks are trying to pull information together to help decipher what's going on. (like in the thread I linked to a few posts above) But it does bother me when someone is, or at least appears to be, blasting the heck out of something with blanket-type comments. Take a look at the OP's recent comments:

Does this seem like he is trying to get to the bottom of the problem? Does it seem like he is contributing to the forum? In my eyes, he is simply taking an opportunity to continually bash Apple, just like he did two years ago. Now don't get me wrong: it's totally ok to not like a product and voice your opinion. But when all you can do is continually bash something and do so with outrageous claims (such as over 50% of all iMacs are effected), then yes, it begins to look like trolling.

Bryan

Unfortunately Bryan your recent actions on this thread, including insults, and the continuous attempts to hijack the thread by ridiculing the poll, all the unfortunate people with issues, etc. are uncalled for and frankly getting rather tiring.

In business numbers never lie. This poll, retailers, and now review sites worldwide have already confirmed the likely large number of defects.

FYI I just returned from my local Best Buy and interestingly enough the 27 inch iMac was taken off the floor! I quote the Manager "Apple does not want it on display"

Hi Tom,

Does this seem like he is trying to get to the bottom of the problem? Does it seem like he is contributing to the forum? In my eyes, he is simply taking an opportunity to continually bash Apple, just like he did two years ago. Now don't get me wrong: it's totally ok to not like a product and voice your opinion. But when all you can do is continually bash something and do so with outrageous claims (such as over 50% of all iMacs are effected), then yes, it begins to look like trolling.

Bryan

Bryan,

Here we go again. Am I trying to get to the bottom of the problem? What do you think I am? An Apple QC exec? Perhaps you should go back to the beginning of the thread. There you will see that a simple question has been asked about a specific problem. Period. No troubleshooting, hypothesizing, wishing, dreaming, or whatever else you are implying.

Then you falsely lie and accuse me of making "claims" (such as over 50% of all iMacs are "effected" :rolleyes:) which was NEVER made. What you read into the poll numbers is solely up to you.

Yes this is trollingl and now yes you should be reported.

Btom

Nov 27, 2009, 07:39 AM

Bryan,

I, for one, agree with solman that it would be good to have one place we could report problems with the new (and I stress: beautiful) machine. And no, I am not in the position to set up the poll.
Maybe you just don't like his writing style? Our exchanges seem to be quite civil...

Tom B.

ghunnar

Nov 27, 2009, 07:48 AM

I have an i5 on order and have been following threads like this in many forums. That a problem exists is undeniable.

The posts in this thread are meaningful because they "alert" people to the possible issues so people can be informed and act accordingly. I will be rationally and regularly inspecting my computer based on the experiences of others.

Those that have tried to hijack the thread, why do you do it? Your actions seem to serve no useful purpose other than to oppress the opinions of people with real problems by attacking the forum in which they express themselves. Really what do you hope to achieve because what you do achieve is that you come off as Apple employees undertaking damage control.

Please go away and let people have a voice. Go away and let people share their problems. Start your own thread if you feel so strongly about your position on this matter.

Keep it going Solman I have learnt a lot from your posters.

hakr

Nov 27, 2009, 08:02 AM

Unfortunately Bryan your recent actions on this thread, including insults, and the continuous attempts to hijack the thread by ridiculing the poll, all the unfortunate people with issues, etc. are uncalled for and frankly getting rather tiring.

In business numbers never lie. This poll, retailers, and now review sites worldwide have already confirmed the likely large number of defects.

FYI I just returned from my local Best Buy and interestingly enough the 27 inch iMac was taken off the floor! I quote the Manager "Apple does not want it on display"

Hear! Hear!

We may not have a statistically accurate database of the numbers of buyers of the new iMacs who are having problems, but there definitely are problems.

It could be one percent, ten percent, twenty percent, or higher. Or lower.

There are enough problems so that I have delayed my purchase of a new I7 iMac until there is official acknowledgment of the problems, fixes, and information from customers of the "revised" machines that the machines are performing properly.

I like Apple hardware, but for $2000+, I see no reason to be a guinea pig for that corporation, or go through the annoyance of waiting for the machine, opening the box, finding out the machine is faulty, and then packing it up and sending it back, hoping the next unit shipped is ok.

And for those naysayers who are claiming what we are reading about is coming from a statistically insignificant number of buyers...prove it.

. But when all you can do is continually bash something and do so with outrageous claims (such as over 50% of all iMacs are effected), then yes, it begins to look like trolling.

Bryan

How do you know what percentage of these new iMacs are having serious issues? Is it one percent, ten percent, twenty five percent? Could it be worse? What are the causes of these issues? Do you know? Has Apple acknowledged the problems publicly?

It's not bashing to use these posting groups to try to get information. For most of us, purchase of a new iMac will represent a significant outlay of cash. It would be nice to know we're not going to be spending a lot of time following up on a piece of hardware that is being shipped in a faulty condition.

JimAtLaw

Nov 27, 2009, 10:08 AM

I saw some interesting comments in the discussion thread on these issues in the Apple Support Forums, centering on power - is anyone who is exhibiting these symptoms using a UPS?

hakr

Nov 27, 2009, 11:21 AM

After a few years of experience with a late model Macbook Pro and about a year of experience with my iMac, I think what Apple has to offer is a better operating system than Microsoft and better ergonomics than most computer makers.

But...

The claims that Apple uses "better" components than other computer makers is, I believe, pretty much b.s. The CPUs are basically the same, the video chips are basically the same, the memory is the same, the hard drives are the same, et cetera. Apple's motherboards may be proprietary, but that doesn't make them "better" or of higher quality than ASUS motherboards or Intel motherboards.

I like Apple's "stuff," but once you are inside the case, it's all pieces'n'parts, just like everyone else uses, and apparently and sadly with the same sort of QC problems Dell and HP have. NTW, at least the competitors' stuff costs a lot less. I got a "black friday" sales email from HP this morning, offering a new laptop with an I7 cpu, well-equipped, for under $1000. I7!