what's up w/ admittance requirements to see cheney speak?

[zimv20]

story 1 (http://www.borderlandnews.com/stories/borderland/20040731-149566.shtml)

Demos are asked to back Bush before Cheney speech

Richard Benke
Associated Press

RIO RANCHO, N.M. -- Some Democrats who signed up to hear Vice President Dick Cheney speak Saturday were refused tickets unless they signed a pledge to endorse President Bush.

The measure was a security step designed to avoid a disruption, which Bush campaign spokesman Dan Foley alleged Democrats were planning. Democratic Party officials denied it.

Several Democrats encountered the screening measures Thursday after calling from a line that self-identified as ACT, America Coming Together, an activist group that supports Kerry, Foley said. Others tried to give false names and were denied tickets, he said.


Vietnam veteran Michael Ortiz y Pino said he refused to sign the pledge and was refused tickets.

Ortiz y Pino said he was asked whether he associated with veterans, pro-life, gun rights or teacher groups.

Neither man wanted to give driver's license numbers but did so.

"I said, 'Why do you need that?' " Ortiz y Pino said.

A campaign worker, he said, replied: "Secret Service stuff."


story 2 (http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/dailystar/32301.php)

Bush camp solicits race of Star staffer

By C.J. Karamargin

ARIZONA DAILY STAR

President Bush's re-election campaign insisted on knowing the race of an Arizona Daily Star journalist assigned to photograph Vice President Dick Cheney.

The Star refused to provide the information.

Cheney is scheduled to appear at a rally this afternoon at the Pima County Fairgrounds.

A rally organizer for the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign asked Teri Hayt, the Star's managing editor, to disclose the journalist's race on Friday. After Hayt refused, the organizer called back and said the journalist probably would be allowed to photograph the vice president.

"It was such an outrageous request, I was personally insulted," Hayt said later.

Danny Diaz, a spokesman for the president's re-election campaign, said the information was needed for security purposes.


Diaz repeated that answer when asked if it is the practice of the White House to ask for racial information or if the photographer, Mamta Popat, was singled out because of her name. He referred those questions to the U.S. Secret Service, which did not respond to a call from the Star Friday afternoon.

Hayt declined to speculate on whether Popat was racially profiled, but said she is deeply concerned.

"One has to wonder what they were going to do with that information," Hayt said. "Because she has Indian ancestry, were they going to deny her access? I don't know."

[Thomas Veil]

The second story sounds -- unfortunately -- typical for Bush's handlers. But that first one, that's a new one on me. That is just wrong on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin. So what's next? When we're in the presence of Cheney, will we be required to give him a stiff-armed salute? Or just genuflect and kiss his ring?

Requiring somebody to endorse Bush? Please!

[pseudobrit]

Requiring somebody to endorse Bush? Please!

I wouldn't sign something like that to see Kerry speak. And I do endorse him.

[zimv20]

there are at least several instances in the history of this country of people being forced to sign loyalty oaths (or face consequences if they didn't). imo, none of those instances are pretty, and this "bush endorsement pledge" is frighteningly close.

[themadchemist]

Is any of this new? The Bush administration uses the excuse of security to justify discrimination and partisanship. I'm not surprised at all, but sickened nonetheless.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Just shows why the RNC needs to go, just not Bush. They are trying to take over the nation as the single Party. By what ever means they have.

All because of the money involved. Just look at the way the political parties dress, the clothes they wear, and their quality of life. For those that have been through "anti-union" training; you know what I mean. It is time to dump the RNC (in particular) and the DNC, to bring parties that will represent the people.

[skunk]

When was the last time he said anything worth listening to?

[blackfox]

When was the last time he said anything worth listening to?
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King...

[Neserk]

Endorse Bush? That is crazy talk. You can't force someone to endorse Bush or Kerry for that matter! Or is that just a way of controlling what gets out of the room (speech wise) so that no one really knows what was said.

*so confused*

[Chip NoVaMac]

Endorse Bush? That is crazy talk. You can't force someone to endorse Bush or Kerry for that matter! Or is that just a way of controlling what gets out of the room (speech wise) so that no one really knows what was said.

*so confused*

There are some that take "pledges" to be very serious. Both on the civil and religious level. I do not fault those that took it they way they did.

[skunk]

There are some that take "pledges" to be very serious. Both on the civil and religious level. I do not fault those that took it they way they did.
It sounds insane to me: since when do you make up your mind BEFORE you hear someone speak? Why would you need to listen?

[Chip NoVaMac]

It sounds insane to me: since when do you make up your mind BEFORE you hear someone speak? Why would you need to listen?

Agreed, but when it comes to US politics and pledges, we are different breed.

[skunk]

Agreed, but when it comes to US politics and pledges, we are different breed.
Evidently. Care to expand? This Brit doesn't get it. :confused:

[Chip NoVaMac]

It sounds insane to me: since when do you make up your mind BEFORE you hear someone speak? Why would you need to listen?

In Virginia we have open primaries, but a few years ago they tried to get us to pledge that when we were voting in the primary, that we we were voting for the party that we had an interest in. I looked tat as a choice between my God and I, not some ********* party.

[IJ Reilly]

It looks like the Bush campaign has come up with a lie worth telling.

Imagine this scenario: someone signs the paper to attend Cheney's speech, then when it's over, they stand up and shout, "I signed the pledge, but after I heard what Mr. Cheney had to say today, I renounce it!"

Spin that.

[Neserk]

It sounds insane to me: since when do you make up your mind BEFORE you hear someone speak? Why would you need to listen?


LOL... that didn't even occur to me. I guess it is just another example of stupid Americans. (Making up your mind before hearing the speaker).

[Neserk]

It looks like the Bush campaign has come up with a lie worth telling.

Imagine this scenario: someone signs the paper to attend Cheney's speech, then when it's over, they stand up and shout, "I signed the pledge, but after I heard what Mr. Cheney had to say today, I renounce it!"

Spin that.

*THAT* would be great!

[pseudobrit]

It sounds insane to me: since when do you make up your mind BEFORE you hear someone speak? Why would you need to listen?

Because people are not generally interested in hearing, analysing and digesting new facts and points of view.

They don't want to independently make up their minds, they want to be told why they've already had their minds made up for them.

[themadchemist]

Because people are not generally interested in hearing, analysing and digesting new facts and points of view.

They don't want to independently make up their minds, they want to be told why they've already had their minds made up for them.

But you're not supposed to assume that when planning an event!

In any case, a polarized election like this one with a critical swing vote means that this sort of policy will only hurt the Bu****es. I don't think swing voters going out to hear the candidates and make a decision will be too pleased with the prospect of having to "pledge the allegiance" to one of the candidates before they are ready to do so.

Either Jeff Greenfield or Bill Schneider has a "Political Play of the Week." This Bush campaign decision is my "Political Foul of the Week."

[Bobcat37]

Weird... Cheney is coming here Wednesday to speak, and I got tickets to see him. The tickets were completely free, and all I had to do was show them my license and then they wrote my name on the back of the ticket. No ridiculous pledges (that seems so ridiculous I almost question if the story is true).

As for the race thing, they probably wanted to know what his race is so that when he showed up that could be a partial verification that it was really him. I know, that's stretching it a bit, but I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt here of what otherwise sounds like a stupid request :p

[themadchemist]

Weird... Cheney is coming here Wednesday to speak, and I got tickets to see him. The tickets were completely free, and all I had to do was show them my license and then they wrote my name on the back of the ticket. No ridiculous pledges (that seems so ridiculous I almost question if the story is true).

AP tends to be pretty accurate.


As for the race thing, they probably wanted to know what his race is so that when he showed up that could be a partial verification that it was really him. I know, that's stretching it a bit, but I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt here of what otherwise sounds like a stupid request :p

Yeah...a stretch...That's crap and you know it. This is one of those things for which you really shouldn't try to apologize, as a Bush supporter. Whatever you think about the rest of the political scene, you can agree that this is extremely questionable. The problem isn't that the request is stupid as much as that it has an apparent racial bias: Why would you want to know someone's race if you weren't going to make judgments based on it? And why would knowing a person's race confirm the person's identity? There are many thousands of 'brownies' in the United States--knowing that someone is Indian isn't really going to help you ensure that that's who shows up...That's why we have things like IDs. You know, when you go to a limited-admissions event, they don't just give you a call beforehand and ask your race, so they can confirm your identity when you get there. No, the explanation is so ridiculous that it is inviable.

There's no doubt here, and thus no benefit of it...Of course, how much benefit of the doubt do we really need to cut the Bush administration before we figure out that it's not up to the job? I watch his cronies transform this country into everything it shouldn't be and I just want to know when people will wake up enough to see that he's not really one of the good guys.

[jelloshotsrule]

Just shows why the RNC needs to go, just not Bush. They are trying to take over the nation as the single Party. By what ever means they have.

All because of the money involved. Just look at the way the political parties dress, the clothes they wear, and their quality of life. For those that have been through "anti-union" training; you know what I mean. It is time to dump the RNC (in particular) and the DNC, to bring parties that will represent the people.

amen!!!!

13 million bucks for a convention??? and who paid for it? oh that's right, taxpayers!

ridiculous....

[Lyle]

Weird... Cheney is coming here Wednesday to speak, and I got tickets to see him. The tickets were completely free, and all I had to do was show them my license and then they wrote my name on the back of the ticket. No ridiculous pledges (that seems so ridiculous I almost question if the story is true).The impression I got from the story is that they were specifically concerned about the people calling from the America Coming Together (ACT) number -- not all attendees. The story variously says "some people" or "several people", but only cites two specific people who were asked to sign a pledge. I think it's pretty clear that this was targeted specifically at some people that they expected to try to cause a disruption.

To provide a little context, according to Disinfopedia.org (http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=America_Coming_Together), America Coming Together is a political action committee funded by George Soros, the man who brought you MoveOn.org (http://www.moveon.org).

[IJ Reilly]

George Soros didn't "bring us" Moveon.org, it brought itself. The organization existed, and was prominent, long before Soros decided to give them some of his money.

[Lyle]

George Soros didn't "bring us" Moveon.org, it brought itself. The organization existed, and was prominent, long before Soros decided to give them some of his money.Yes, you are correct; my bad.

[Thomas Veil]

amen!!!!

13 million bucks for a convention??? and who paid for it? oh that's right, taxpayers!

ridiculous....
Actually, a lot of it was paid for by various corporations who want to curry favor with whoever wins. Just another example of them buying our politicians.

But then, the cost gets passed on to us in the prices we pay. So ultimately, either way, you're right.

[mactastic]

So if this election is about the tiny percentage of undecided voters, how does a loyalty oath help you expand your base of support? The only answer I can come up with that's plausible is that they figure it's the TV images of wild support for Bush/Cheney that are more important than allowing undecided voters to listen to the candidates speak and decide for themselves. But that's a pretty sorry state of affairs if that's their thinking. I guess they must be pretty worried about people's attitudes about Bush if they are stooping to this level.

[zimv20]

maybe they should start doing what daytime talk shows do -- pay actors to be enthusiastic audience members.

[zimv20]

link (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/09/bush_backers_only_policy_riles_voters_at_rnc_rallies/)

some tales of people who were turned away in new mexico:

''Whose vice president is he?" said 72-year-old retiree John Wade of Albuquerque, who was asked to sign the form when he picked up his tickets. ''I just wanted to hear what my vice president had to say, and they make me sign a loyalty oath."

Nick Lucy, a 64-year-old veteran and Democrat, said he was turned away from a May 7 rally in Dubuque, Iowa, at which President Bush spoke even though he had a ticket given to him by a local Republican leader. Lucy, who was not asked to sign a form, said he has seen every president since Ronald Reagan, but he was denied access because he is not a registered Republican. He is a Democrat and a past commander of the American Legion in Dubuque who plays taps at veterans' funerals.

''They asked the police to escort me out of there," Lucy said. ''I wasn't going to disrupt anything, but I probably wasn't going to clap a lot, either. Every rally the president goes to everyone is cheering for him because they're handpicked."


The form Wade was asked to sign had a disclaimer saying no public funds were used to produce it.

Wade said he filled out the form, was given two tickets, but had second thoughts about signing an endorsement he didn't believe in. Wade said he explained his misgivings to a supervisor, and the form was quickly located. The supervisor wrote ''Do Not Use" on the form, but Wade insisted it be given to him. In the end, Wade said, he offered to give back his tickets in exchange for the endorsement, which he did.

''Sure I'm a Democrat and I'll go head to head with you one on one, but I would never disrupt a speech by the vice president," Wade says.